The Sevan Podcast - Joel Salatin | American Farmer

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

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OK, is that how your mom and dad said it also? Yeah. OK, because I say my last name is Matosian, because I'm Armenian. You go further back in generations, and they'll say Matosian, Matosian. No, I know that in Switzerland, where our family was from, we were in the German part of Switzerland, and there all the Salatins have an E on the back end. So I'm assuming it was more like Salatine,

but they dropped the E when they came to the US. So it's Salatin. If you say Salatin, you're accenting the wrong syllable. Yeah. That sounds like something that's in food that shouldn't be in food. Salatin. Yeah. It's what makes M&M special. Yeah.

Yeah. Or some bad media report that's salacious. Right. Absolutely. You know, this morning when I woke up, a buddy sent me a PDF that came from his kids unified school district here in California, Berkeley Unified School District, and it was talking about how the school is accommodating boys in the women's locker room. It's actually girls locker room. His kids only 10 years old and about how everyone needs to accommodate boys so that they can go wherever they want. And

Berkeley's a very liberal area and my friends, all my friends, they're extremely liberal and but now it's come to roost some something that's pushed up against them and this liberal ideology to take away some of their freedoms or their liberties has pushed up against them and they're coming to me. A couple weeks ago or a month ago, there was a famous liberal reporter from the Young Turks named Anna Kasparian, extremely liberal pushing the liberal ideology, all the things that push up against our liberties. And she was out walking her dog and her dog pooped and she went to pick up the dog poop. And this was in Los Angeles. And a homeless man came up behind her and started grinding on her from behind. Pushed up against her, and then all of a sudden she flipped. There are all these things that happen until they come roost in your yard.

So for me, one of the things that happened is that YouTube follows the WHO guidelines on health, and so you're not allowed to say anything that pushes against the WHO. And I had my YouTube channel suspended during COVID because I said the best way to hedge against all disease is exercise and diet. And that breaks WHO guidelines. I was wondering if there was... Did you ever have any... So, sorry.

So then I listened to your interview with RFK and you tell the thermometer story about someone if they wanna make 10 pounds of charcuterie, they need a $5,000 thermometer. And so there's this thing that pushes up against their freedoms. And you introduce this thing to me that I'm so embarrassed that I never thought of,

because I always talk about freedom of speech, freedom of speech, freedom of speech. But you couch our liberty as if they take away our ability to make our own food, we're screwed. And all of a sudden I'm like, wow, is that the hierarchy over freedom of speech? So there's two questions. I wanna talk about that, about how we can't let them,

how far they've come already, and no one was paying attention because so few of us are farmers. We all talk, so we all want freedom of speech. But I also wanted to know if you had a red pill moment, if there was something for you that all of a sudden you were like, ooh, I'm not going to be able to just accept everything and anything. Oh, well, so can I take the second question first? Please, please. So I'm thinking the year was about 1994 maybe 9495.

And we got a we got a knock on the door front door guy standing there. He holds up a badge like an FBI badge. I'm from the Virginia Department of Agriculture Consumer Services. We have impounded all of your beef at the slaughterhouse. And you and you are an informant has told us you've been selling illegal beef. And we have police tape on it. So you can't get to it and your outdoor chicken processing is illegal. And I remember very, and I had already written the book,

written a book, Pastured Poultry Prophets. I mean, we were cooking with gas. We were doing well. We'd been here full-time, Theresa and I and the kids for what, 12 years, you know? And we were doing well and getting a lot of media attention and all sorts of things. And, and it was so I was out. So the next morning, of course, this was like a, you know, shock. I mean, it's like, it's like the Gestapo coming, you know, and so the next

morning, I was out moving the chicken shelters and I was just kind of you know thinking and Um, I wouldn't say I was maybe I was praying. I don't know but I was thinking about man, you know what What what what do we do? Where are we in this moment? And just clear us about it wasn't a voice from heaven. Don't read any more into it But the but the overwhelming thought in my mind at that point was the biblical story of Esther, in the book of Esther, where she got picked as the new queen, and there was a conspirator that wanted to destroy all the Jews named Haman, and Haman concocted this conspiracy and and Esther's uncle found out about it and And went to Esther and said Esther, you know

Look, all of us are gonna be killed if you don't if you don't intervene and she said well I can't because if anybody goes to the king On unasked for They're they're summarily killed. You have to, you know, the king has to hold his scepter out to you and then you know that, you know, that you'll live. And she said, I might, you know, you might kill me to go into the king's court, end with all the things, you know, uninvited.

And Mordecai, her uncle looked at her and he said, Esther, maybe you were born for such a time as this. And of course we know the story. She goes into the king, the king holds out his scepter. I mean, I just get all teary and goosefleshy every time I think about that massive Persian court that ruled half the known world at the time. And there were, who knows how many vickers

and important people standing around. And I can imagine the hush, the hush when an uninvited person steps into that courtroom or that king's chambers, everybody, oh, you can just hear them holding their breath. And then the king extends his scepter, she comes in and of course she ends up concocting a counter conspiracy against the conspirator. He hangs on the gallows that he made for Mordecai the Jew and the Jews are saved. And to this day they celebrate the feast of Purim.

The feast of Purim is to celebrate Esther's intervention on the behalf of the Jews. And so I'm out moving the chickens and it just came to me like a stroke out of the heavens for such a time as this. And I didn't know what the outcome would be. I didn't know if we would lose our beef, if we would lose the farm. I didn't know where this was gonna go, but I had complete confidence and confirmation

that somebody had to stand, had to speak, had to represent freedom, the ability to procure sustenance and grow sustenance and take care of our communities and our neighbors with food. And so I've never backed up or basically flinched since that time. That was my red pill moment, absolutely. And I've never, I would say I've never had a shake of confidence ever since. And we've had several battles since then with regulators, but they didn't affect me like they did that big one. And for the people who are listening, your parents dabbled in farming more than dabbled in farming. And then in September 24th, 1982, you started farming full time. And the story that you're telling, just to put it on a timeline, is 1992.

So 10 years. It was about 94, 94 because the Pastoral Poultry Prophets came out in 93. So this was a year or so after the book came out and thousands of people around the country were doing this. And now suddenly it's illegal. I mean, you can imagine the emotional turmoil here you've promoted, you're speaking at conferences, you're telling people to do this.

And suddenly what, you mean it's illegal? You know, that was a pretty big deal. So then your first question is, how have we gotten to this point? How did we get here? And so my real quick answer for that is that, you know, whatever, 500 years ago, the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker were embedded in the village and and and everybody knew who knew who the scoflaws were you know they knew who the dirty guy was the clean guy the honest guy the the the kind of loose loose loose business guy because the butcher

the baker and a candlestick maker were embedded at scale in the neighborhood in the community. They went to church with others. Their children played together with the neighbor's children. They were in each other's homes. They didn't have TV. They didn't have TikTok internet. People were actually, back in that day,

people actually had neighbor relationships unlike today. And so what happened then as the 1800s came on, and we industrialized food, the the butcher, baker and candlestick maker gradually industrialized, you know, great big processing plants big from canneries to, you know, avatoires, slaughterhouses, whatever, culminating in in 1906 with Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, and within six months of The Jungle being published, half of the buyers, half of the sales of the seven big meat packers, there were seven at the time that controlled about 50% of America's meat marketplace. They were facing bankruptcy.

They, and so they went to Teddy Roosevelt, President Teddy Roosevelt and said, hey, yeah, we're gonna go out of business. We need protection. You need to make a government agency that we can put a stamp on our meat that consumers will say, oh, okay, it's okay. And so Teddy Roosevelt being pretty much a socialist,

he kowtowed to the corporate lobby and gave them the food safety inspection service in 1908. And that was when what we call the food police really began at the federal level. And it has grown and grown and grown ever since. The regulations have gotten worse and to where now, you know, you can't butcher a pig and have your Thanksgiving hog kill and then sell a pound of sausage to a neighbor. You can't make a chicken pot pie and sell it to a neighbor.

You can't. Now, you can give it away. You can give make a chicken pot pie and sell it to a neighbor. You can't, now you can give it away. You can give it away. And, but as soon as you trade money, now suddenly, you know, it's illegal. So as we industrialized, what happened is we had more and more of these large industrial facilities, putting up razor wire, guard towers, you know,

no trespassing zones. And what happened was a gradual erosion of food knowledge, of food connectedness and knowledge. Well, what happens when you're ignorant about something? If you don't know about something, you fear it. That's a natural human instinct. I don't know about this. I'm a little bit afraid of it. And so the fear spawned a huge consumer advocacy group, I mean, think Ralph Nader, that demanded a government bully, a government bully big enough to look over

the guard towers and the fences and become eyes and ears for the consumer. It was all well-intended and sincere, and that's where we were. And what people didn't realize, people like Ralph Nader and the people like Bernie Sanders and stuff, what they don't realize is when you ask for government oversight, what you get is a collusion fraternity

between the regulators and the regulators. This is what RFK talks about with agency capture. That's his phrase, agency capture. It's a wonderful word. In other words, the regulators are captured by the people that are supposed to be regulated. But I'm not sure RFK Jr. realizes, bless his heart, I'm not sure he realizes that that is inherent in the system.

In other words, you can't just get better people and it'll be okay. Eventually, it will erode to where it is now every single time because the big players have the lobby power. I mean, K Street, the reason we have K Street in America is because all of our freedoms are for sale. If our freedoms weren't for sale, we wouldn't have K Street in America is because all of our freedoms are for sale. If our freedoms weren't for sale, we wouldn't have K Street. So these big outfits, they're consistently and constantly watching out for their interests when fearful people ask for government oversight

and protection. And so that's how we've gotten to the point now where you almost have a license to pee and you can't get a glass of raw milk and you can't buy Aunt Matilda's pot pie and everything. And four, and now not seven companies control 50% of America's food meat supply, but now four companies control 85% of America's meat supply. So we have not had a fair open market in food ever since Teddy Roosevelt developed the Food Safety Inspection Service in 1908.

That's how we've gotten where we are. And so then the question is, well, how do we get out of it? How do two neighbors then transact a food transaction? And that's why I'm a big proponent of a food emancipation proclamation. I know those are powerful words, but what we've got is a food system that's enslaved and shackled by these overzealous, capricious, and often malicious scale prejudicial food regulations that make it much easier for Tyson to comply than for me to comply. That means it's harder for me to get a seat at the table, and it also means that if I can comply, my food is going to

be way, way more expensive because I can't spread the overheads of compliance over as many pounds of material. And so every food regulation is inherently scale prejudicial, which in my view makes it inherently a bad law. A good law is one that doesn't discriminate on size. It's no easier to not rob a bank if the bank is big or small or if you're a one person or you have a gang. Speed limits. It's no harder to push your foot on the brake of an 18-wheeler

than it is a Prius. So there are absolutely, the best laws are ones that are egalitarian in scope where it's as easy to comply for one person as it is for another. And the food safety laws are decidedly scale prejudicial, which is inherently unfair. Hey, you used the thermometer example in an interview I saw. Do you have any other examples just so people could hold on to it and they could be like, I get it. If you have five cows, you're screwed. If you have 1,000 cows, you can spread that overhead cost amongst all the cows.

Are there any examples that jump out at you that are just like, yeah, that industry shut down for mom and pops? Well, a good one is, for example, making, let's make a chicken pot pie. You know, people love, I do certainly, you know, meat pies. And so here we have a young lady on our farm that's actually a trained culinary degree, certificated and she came, she said, I've heard you talk about pot pies, I wanna do it. So we have a nice kitchen on the place

that we cook for our team. And so I called the, but the thing is to sell a pot pie, you have to, it has to come out of a certified kitchen. All right, well, so we call the health department out. They look at it and they say, oh, this is a great kitchen, but you need a bathroom. I said, what do we, our house is a hundred yards away. Mom's house is a hundred yards away.

We've got two bathrooms in each one. Why do we have to have a bathroom? They said, well well the regulations say so I said well, can it be a composting toilet? No, it has to be water-based porcelain licensed septic system So now suddenly we're at a fifty thousand dollar Fifty-thousand-dollar investment just to make one pot pie Well, I said I said but wait a minute food trucks don't have bathrooms, you know And they sell pot pies. And they said,

yeah, that's a loophole that we're trying to fix. So if you start seeing bathrooms on the back of food trucks, you'll know where it came from. And I said, wait a minute, are you telling me that if I put this kitchen on a chassis, on an axle and wheels, that I could do the pot pies? They said, absolutely. I said, can you please explain the reasonableness of that? I've got a nice little a nice little kitchen, you say it's beautiful and it's great. All it's lacking is a bathroom, but we've got four within 100 yards. If, if our if our lady that's that's that's wanting to do this project, if she's happy to walk 100 yards to the bathroom. What? Yeah, why? I

mean, we've got potable water, We've got, you know, why do you, well, they said, well, that's just, that's what's the way the law is. And so this is the kind and this story. So, so what she did, said, well, um, I said, well, we could, we could do a food truck. But then he said, well, the problem with the food truck is you can't actually sell it off site. So, you know, we service thousands of patrons and not all of them obviously come to the farm. We deliver, we ship, we, you know, and they said, but if, so if

you do a food truck, the pot pies can only be sold from the food truck. You can't take them and sell them somewhere else. Oh, okay. Well, that doesn't work. So she finally went downtown to one of these big, big old churches that's, you know, from the late 1800s probably, and has a very small congregation now, but they have this beautiful, nice, big, you know, inspected kitchen. And so she worked out a deal with them to rent that. Well, they were thrilled. Oh man, somebody's going to use our nice big kitchen, you know? And so she went through, you know, it took her several months to jump through all the hoops and, uh, and boy, she came to me the last day said, Hey, we're going to get our final inspection today. We're going to be in business. It's all going to go. She went down there and met with the inspector. He

walks in and he says, you know, I'm not sure I'm the right agency that's supposed to sign off on this. I think it's supposed to be the other agency. You have to start all over. Oh my goodness. And she, she came, she came. I'll never's supposed to be the other agency, you have to start all over. Oh, my goodness. And she came, she came, I'll never forget it. She came, she was just depressed. She said, I, she said, I'm done. I can't, I've been working on this for eight months. I, I don't have the energy to do it. And so, so it was gone. And so the fact, here's the problem. When you're trying to launch an entrepreneurial idea,

it has to be launched at an embryonic form. You can't birth a big baby. Birth of a big baby is hard. You need to birth a little baby. And the problem with these scale prejudicial regulations that they put a baby too big to be birthed in the front of thousands and thousands of neighborhood food, local entrepreneurs who would be glad to serve our neighborhoods with food. But the infrastructure requirement and the paperwork and the regulatory compliance is so huge that we just, we throw up our hands and don't do it.

And then when 2020 comes and the store shelves are bare and people are looking around for food, hey, we could supply that food. Local farmers could certainly supply that food, but without even putting it on a tractor trailer, you don't even need to transport it across the country. But the neighborhood, the community abattoir, the community cannery, the community, all this community infrastructure that used to be here in the 20s and 30s and 40s is now gone.

And what a lot of people don't realize is that Don Tyson, Frank Perdue, all these big industrial outfits today, they all started by a great, great grandpa in the 30s and 40s from the tailgate of a pickup truck. Bob Evans, Bob Evans restaurants, they all started from, Bob Evans was peddling hams out through southern Ohio, then tailgate of a pickup truck. And then they were

savvy, they were entrepreneurs, good business people, and they built big businesses. And if we don't preserve the ability for today's generation to be able to offer a creative alternative from the tailgate of a pickup truck, we will not have tomorrow's creative, innovative, you know, business people in the food system. It will simply be a fraternal ongoing, you know, tribe that is grandfathered in at, you know, old school thinking. And Joel, all of this is fear based? Yeah. All of the of this is fear based? Yeah. All of the regulatory stuff is fear based? It's like, if you don't have a bathroom, it's going to be bad chicken, pot pies, and people

are going to die and get salmonella and die if you don't have a bathroom. It's all fear based. In fact, I'll tell you a story. I was down in Richmond. We had a delegate that was trying to put through a cottage food bill. Basically it was that if you want to come to my farm, look around, smell around, and ask around, and exercise your voluntary consent as adult to express your freedom of choice for your microbiome's provenance, you should be able to acquire the food

of your choice from the source of your choice. It's a very, very simple thing. And so he had this bill down there that basically said that. And of course, all of the mainline agriculture, Farm Bureau Federation, the AMA, the doctors, the seed corn, everybody lined up against it. And our Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services commissioner, very nice man,

he came to me at one of the breaks and he just kind of pulled me aside like a benevolent grandfather. And he said, Joel, he said, we can't give people the freedom to choose their food. He said, if we did, we couldn't build hospitals fast enough for all the sick people getting bad food from their local farmers. Yeah, you know, you laugh, but that's the mentality. That's the, you said fear. I mean, you know, you laugh, but that's the mentality. That's the, you said fear.

I mean, you're exactly right. And so that's the mentality in not only the regulatory system but also, you know, the average consumer. And goodness, I was out in California, down in Southern California speaking at a university. I had two or 300 students in the lecture hall. And during Q and A, just the way things were going, I thought, you know, I'm gonna ask a question.

So I asked these two or 300 students, I asked them, do you think that in order for you to eat a carrot out of your own garden, so you've grown a carrot, you want to eat it, do you think that there should be a government agent to certify the safety of that carrot before you can eat it? A third of the hands went up. It wasn't half, but it was a third.

I mean, one would have been too many, but a third of the hands went up. So that's where our culture has come now. We have become just completely paranoid, ignorant, and completely dependent on a government program. And if there's one, if the quickest way to disempower the citizenry, the quickest way to disempower the citizenry is for the citizenry to believe that the only solution to a problem is a government solution. The truth is that we can solve a lot of problems ourselves in a private sector. And if Teddy Roosevelt had told those seven meat packers, you built

your bed, now go lie in it, guys. And what would have happened would have been there would have been consumer driven, consumer driven inspection, you know, underwriters laboratory, you know, for for meat, there would have been a triple A, you know, triple A for pork chops. You know, I'm just obviously making fun with it. But the point is that there would have been- My dad used to get Consumer Reports, the magazine, before the internet. You remember that? So like, you could see the best motorcycle, the best food processor to buy, the best microwave, the jacket that had the best zipper on it. You could just look it up and they ranked them all.

Absolutely. And so the private sector is a great mechanism for vetting and sleuthing these things and organizations. I mean, we band together for all sorts of reasons. And so there are plenty of solutions to most of society's problems that are completely outside government meddling. solutions to most of society's problems that are completely outside, you know, government meddling. Joel, so many little things to go back to and unpack, little loose ends.

I'll get to it in one second. Extra Sloppy, thanks Joel for your work and influence the path to empowering local farmers to serve their communities will be a path of deregulation. Seve, I sent you a DM. Thank you. Okay. Just really quick on a note, there's a guy I've had on the show a couple times and he eats raw meat and he did a, he just ate raw chicken randomly. He would get it from Costco, the dirtiest chicken gas stations and just eat raw meat for a hundred days. And of course people are freaking out.

I'm not just raw meat. He was eating raw chicken so I went down just the rabbit hole of salmonella and It was fascinating Salmonella is a the cantaloupe industry Makes the cantaloupe industry is way more salmonella poisoning I mean, it's not it's not even comparable than to what happens from chicken. So these stories start right? comparable then to what happens from chicken. So these stories start, right? And, and this guy eats raw chicken for a hundred days. No problem.

I'm from, from the, and he shows, he's like, Hey guys, I got this one from a gas station. I got this from Costco. Look, I'm just eating it. I'm just dipping in peanut butter. And people are completely freaking out because of the way our mom raised us. Right. Our mom raised us like, Hey, if raw chicken touches anything in the kitchen, you're screwed. You're dead. Yeah. Well, let me, let me respond to a couple things that, so, so first of all, you are exactly right that 95%, I think that's the, that's the number I'm not making this up. 95% of all foodborne, bacterial, you know, illnesses are caused not by meat and dairy,

but by fresh produce, especially leafy greens. The reason is because they don't have a kill step. In other words, they don't either get extremely cold, like frozen, or they don't get extremely hot cooked and They're in a dark place. They're moist and There's no kill step That's what the that's what the food regular the term the food regulators use. What's the kill step? So on meat normally the kill step is cooking, you know, so it can have some poop on it You know and and the kill step of cooking it kills it So the the the chicken that this

fella is eating has in the processing, in the industry, its kill step is chlorine. So they bathe the chicken in chlorine, that becomes a kill step in the slaughter process. Now on our farm, we don't use any chlorine at all, but our chicken comes in very, very clean. The point is you can take manure and if you soak it in enough chlorine, it becomes inert. It kills everything in there that might hurt. I think it's important to realize

that this latest big, you know, food pathogen problem at McDonald's, you know, it killed one person sick and 49. And it was it was onions. And it was onions from this big outfit in Colorado. I looked them up, actually, the the farm that they came from and that's why everybody should grow their own or have a neighbor that grows them. You have a little solarium or a hot frame on your house or put a raised bed in your garden and you can have a lot of leafy greens throughout the winter with a little bit of protection. So number one, the guy is right.

Most of the foodborne problem is produce, not meat. Number two, the meat in the supermarkets has a lot of chlorine on it, which provides its own kill step. Number three, and I would suggest this is becoming more and more an issue, is that people have not exercised their immune system. You know, there's a hypothesis, you know, called the, what's it called? The hygiene hypothesis. Many doctors have actually

signed on to this. And basically it says that your immune system is like a muscle. And if you don't exercise it, it becomes very that it atrophies just like, you know, your physical muscles. And so Finland, Finland now leaves the world in their research where they have shown that children that are raised on farms, you know, where the little toddlers are out in the stroller and the dairy and you know, they're, they're picking up some straw and some poop, you know, of course, a little toddler, everything goes in their mouth, right? Those kids, their sickness ratio is just minuscule compared to urban kids.

And Finland has really documented, and of course, many of us, you know, grew up with grandma saying, every kid should eat a pound of dirt before they're 12. And I mean, we grew up with the garden. We pick a carrot, we just kind of wipe it on our pants. And if you get a little dirt, it's no problem. A fresh potato or a tomato, I mean, you just kind of wiped it on your britches and you ate it.

And people that know me know that I routinely drink out of the cow trough with the cows. I'm not trying to do a stunt. I'm actually feeding my microbiome. I'm actually, now, you know, if they're in a pond or a puddle, I don't do that. But if it's, you know, if it's well water, if it's nice and clean, cows are drinking out of one side, I drink out of the other. There's a little bit of cow slobber in there, but it's no problem. And I'm actually on purpose, trying to ingest some things to feed my microbiome. Well, what's happened in our culture with this hygiene hypothesis? Well, I mean, we go back to antimicrobial soap. Look how fast antimicrobial soap came on. And then they

realized, ooh, it's making people susceptible to disease because they're too clean. You know, when, was it Friedman that wrote the book Guns, Germs and Steel, about why some civilizations, you know, were success or came to dominate other civilizations. And the germs part, all the civilizations that had domestic livestock, where people grew up around domestic livestock, those were the ones that took over all the ones that didn't have domestic livestock. Why? Well, because when people were exposed to domestic livestock, they had a better immune system because it was exercised better. And so this gentleman that you're talking about, I would suggest he has probably if he's if he's this whatever cavalier and aggressive about eating raw chicken out of

a growth out of a filling station. I have to admit I wouldn't do that. But but but if if that's part of his stick, if that's part of his stick, he probably has an incredible immune system. My point is he could go to Mexico and drink the water and not get Montezuma's revenge. Wow, wow, wow. Even I don't have, I have quite the immune system. I can't even do that.

Well, I have. I've been there many times. I drink the water. I have no problem. Impressive. South America, all over the place. I drink the water. I have no problem. South America all over the place. I drink the water. No problem. So, I don't know if my immune system is as strong as this guy's, but yeah, that's now that doesn't look the one on his right hand doesn't look raw. That looks like that one's cooked and then this other one he's eating over here is the raw one. look raw. That looks like it's cooked. That one's cooked and

then the and then this other one he's eating over here is the raw. Okay. Okay. Right. Gotcha. Well, we I'll tell you we have a customer. We have a customer. He's been with us for I'm going to say 30 years. Uh he's my age and he has been

eating raw. I mean raw pork. our stuff though. He doesn't eat out of the store. Our stuff. He's been eating our stuff, only raw meat for 30 years. He's the picture of health, never gets sick. And I mean, pork, chicken, fat, everything, he eats it raw. And what he does is he turns it into like a meat sauce or a meat, you know, he grinds it,

doctors it up with some spices and stuff and turns it kind of into a meat salad. And that's how he eats it all. But yeah, there are certainly people doing this. I have friends that eat raw routinely and yeah, there you go. I Grew I'm Armenian and I grew up eating raw meat my grandmother would just there was a meal she would make she would just take lemon and mix it with the meat and then let put spices in it and then lay it flat like

Just smear it out over a plate and then you would eat it with a fork my son and I for my son and I regularly will just get a pound of meat and of ground beef and blend it with a couple dates and some butter. And he he absolutely loves it. This guy that I showed you Joel, he had such bad acne that he said he could never wear a shirt more than once his entire back was covered in acne. His face was one giant pimple. He switched to raw meat completely gone in a week.

Gone. Yeah. He just switched to raw meat and, and, and just raw meat and his, his complexion is as smooth as porcelain now. Wow. Uh, well, you know, you can't, I mean, those are, those are powerful stories. Those are powerful stories and you can't, um, you know, you can't, I mean, those are powerful stories. Those are powerful stories and you can't, you know, you can't deny somebody's testimony. That's just the way it is.

When you, I want to go back to this in 1994 when they came, what happened to these cows and your chickens? Did you comply or did you begin the fight? Oh, we fought. We fought. We didn't comply. So what we did, the first thing we did was we called our elected, our delegate, our state delegate and our state senator. Actually, one was a Republican and one was a Democrat. And so for the Republican, I made the case, you know, they're trying to shut down a business, an entrepreneur. And to the Democrat, I made the case, they're trying to shut down a business, an entrepreneur. And to the Democrat, I made the case,

they're trying to shut down an environmental farm. I mean, you theme it the way it needs to be. Both of them went to bat for us very aggressively. We learned at that time that the only thing that the bureaucrats fear is the elected politicians because they actually can either can make or break agencies, they can shut off funding, they don't care about us at all, but the elected officials, they do. And those guys went to Batforce. Of course, we got our attorney involved. And it took a week. I mean, they demanded for me to give them the names and addresses of all of our customers.

I said, absolutely not, I'm not giving you that. And so we fought back, we fought back hard. And fortunately, I have a room full of debate trophies from college. And so I'm not a pushover when it comes to somebody coming up and telling me what I got to do. I'm not an attorney, but I've also been on plenty of debate issues. And it took a week, but it started on Monday, and at the end of the week on Friday, the guy, he basically parked on our front door.

This is before cell phones and internet and everything. And Friday he came to us, he said, well, I've gotten my final word from Richmond, that's our state capital. And they've decided that we're gonna act like this didn't happen. And so, and then he told me he said This is kind of funny. He said he said you know what if everybody treated us like you

We couldn't begin to do our job and I felt I just felt so so thankful in that moment that well It's been it's been a a week of hell for me, okay? Well, it's been a week of hell for me, okay? But did I save five other small local businesses from this kind of harassment? Maybe it was worth it for me to be the fall guy for this. So yeah, that's where we did. So then when that happened, then I said, well, you can act like it didn't happen,

but we're not gonna let this happen again. And so I then demanded a meeting with his superiors at the federal level and they came. And we kind of had a summit and came to a bit of a meeting of the minds. And we have not had that level. There's been a little bit of stuff since, but we've not had that level of whatever, harassment ever since. And Joel, I'm guessing that these people, these inspectors that go around, I'm guessing

most of them don't have any practical farming experience. That they're just like they were taught something in a book and they're just like they were taught something in a book and they're like, look for this thermometer, look for this pile of poop. Yeah, they're measured. They're like, this pile of poop is too big you have in your backyard. Here's your file. Well, let me give you some of the requirements they told us, you know, in order in order for you to continue processing chickens. Here's what they told us

initially, all right, that that that we ended up winning our side, but they told us a we all right, that we ended up winning our side, but they told us A, we had to have walls. We couldn't be open air, that that was inherently unsanitary. I guess these guys never go on a picnic. But they said you had to be in the house. You couldn't have free range chickens. No, no, no, no processing. Oh, the processing. They weren't concerned at all about production. They weren't concerned about, what they were concerned about was the processing. And so we process in an open air shed with a concrete floor,

it's very, very clean. So anyway, they said, well, it couldn't be open air. It had to have walls. And I said, well, what else? They said, well, you have to have nine. You have to have nine changing lockers for your employees. At that time, we had no employees. It was just Teresa and I, the kids, mom and dad, you know, we didn't have any employees and and yeah,

there you go. They're they're excellent. You're quick. You got a picture of it. Okay. So I said, we don't have any employees and we've got, our house is 50 feet away. Mom's house is 70 feet away. We don't need changing lockers. And nine changing lockers. We don't even have an employee.

I said, well, what else? I said, well, you have to have a bathroom. Again, I said, we've got two bathrooms in our house. It's 50 feet away. We've got to, you know, I said, if I want to go, you know, number one, I just step behind the tractor. You know, what are you and over how they demand completely. And what was fascinating was I had a report at that time. We had had two seniors from James Madison University, biology majors, and they had to do a senior project, and they decided to do a project on pathogens in chicken. And so they came down and they got a sample of our chicken. decided to do a project on on on it. It cultured 3,600 colony forming units of bacteria to a milliliter to the second permutation and I'm already telling you more than I understand. That's just the way they measure it.

And so 3,600 CFU colony forming units of bacteria. Ours cultured 133. So we were 25 times cleaner than what was in the store. And we don't even use chlorine. And these guys looked at the report. And you know, you'd think if they really wanted clean food, when they saw this report, they would have said, Hey, call Richmond, you know, stop the presses. Let's let's figure out how to have how to have all chicken as clean as what you know what polyface does here.

But no, then they say, well, that's not all we're interested in. I said, you mean clean isn't all you're interested in. No, no. I said, well, what else? Then they said, we got to have nine changing lockers for your employees. I said, we don't have employees. They said, you got to have, you know, a bathroom. I said, we've got, you know, the house is 50 feet away. It just, it just, it just is,

it's, you know, you have to laugh to keep from crying. That's how bad this is. And so, you know, the average farmer doesn't have a room full of debate trophies. The average farmer isn't as, whatever, aggressive or savvy as me. And, and so the average farmer is going to just roll over and bow and say, okay, okay, I surrender and I'm out. And that's exactly what's happened. It happens hundreds of times every day in this country to aspiring entrepreneurial food providers who would love to get food to their neighbors and they can't. I want to go back to this food safety inspection service that was created in 1906

when seven meat packers supplied 50% of the sales. When they went to the federal government and asked for that, what was their intention? Why would they, what was their intention of wanting that? To put their competitors out of business? To make up? No, no, no, no. What happened was when Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle in 1906 and exposed the filth in those seven big outfits, people left the stores and they went back to their community butchers. They went to their neighbor farmers. It was the biggest exodus, it was

the biggest exodus of, or migration of consumers away from big packers and back to their local suppliers. Why? Because this book exposed how bad that meat was? Yes, yes. So the question is, who do you trust? Well, they said, we're going to trust neighbor John over here. You know, I see his pigs running around. I see his cat. You know, I'm going to trust him. And so we had, I mean, our county, our county in 1915 probably had, I'm gonna say as many as 50, 50 like, you know, farmers who actually butchered meat on their farm.

You know, they would actually, you could actually take a pig to them or a chicken or something, you know, and of course people butchered their own stuff a lot, but there was an extremely robust, you know, a neighborhood thing going on. But, you know, people are enamored of technology, they're enamored of the new thing, and so, you know, spam and canned meat and different things like that, that these big, you know, outfits, Swift and Armor and Hormel and different things were developing at that time. Partly due to refrigerated train cars that came in shortly thereafter. All of this was kind of developing in this new, whatever, enamored space of industrial food. Oh, we'll go to these big guys. People are drawn to big.

I mean, they're drawn to castles. They're drawn to big. And unfortunately, and I'm hoping that sometime people are drawn to small. You know, EF Schumacher, small is, you know, small is beautiful. So Joel, this agency, this FSIS agency, it was originally created from day one. It was a tool of those big meat packers to, that agency was captured from day one. Basically what you're saying is they said, Hey, will you, will you put some bureaucracy between a meat being slaughtered and it getting to

people's table? We can come through those hoops. Those guys who are our competitors can't. So from day one, it was malicious. Yeah, I, I, I, I'm not sure. I don't think that they were that they were wanting to put all producers out of business. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. I'm not ready to, to put that kind of malicious intent on them, but they were in survival mode. They had, they said,

we need a way to get credibility with the consumer. Consumers don't trust us anymore. We need credibility. So a government stamp that says, this has been inspected and approved by a government agent. Now the consumers will trust us again and we'll regain our market share. That was the entire intent of it.

Did it work? Absolutely it worked. And in fact, if you think about it, think about every food recall that you've ever read about or heard about in our lifetime, Every single food recall that happens, rat poop in the peanut butter in Georgia, whatever it is, what happens is the CEO of the company steps up to the microphone and the first thing he says is, we have complied with all government food safety

regulations. We are clean, we are ins know, we we the ability for food. And business, the big corporate business has been hiding under the bureaucracy skirts, if you will, ever since this was developed. This is the great lie of the system and why we've now come to the point where, you know, you can give your kid, you know, three cans of Coca-Cola a day, that's perfectly safe, but

one teaspoon of milk, that's deadly. You know, that's how we've come to this point, because as the government got more and more and more interference in food, including prohibition, and there was a cultural mind shift that, yeah, it's okay for the government to tell me what to eat. That began with FSIS and then really accelerated with prohibition so that there was a cultural shift in mentality that, yeah, it's okay for the government to get between my lips and my throat. That is okay. And as soon as you posit that, yes, it's okay for the government to tell me what to eat and not. As soon as you go to that point, then the government and its natural growth instincts, tyrannical instincts, is going to continue to monitor and create more and more, you know, in every aspect of food.

Ken Walters, The Jungle is Mandatory Reading in the 10th grade, 1979 at my high school. Wow. I haven't read that book. So here's one of the interesting things, Joel. We started the show. There's all of these things that are encroaching on people's freedoms that's affecting their day-to-day life, right? You can't drive a combustion engine car that we're going to let boys in your daughter's locker room.

You can't say this on the internet or else you'll be censored. And those are things that push up against everyday people, normal people's lives. And you could say that there's this wave of being red-pilled because of that. It's causing people to wake up. Like, wait a second, what's that boy doing in my daughter's dressing room? The thing is, is that there's so few farmers and there's so, this is, this may be the most important issue, the food issue and maybe even more important than free speech and So few people it's gonna bump up against because they're because it doesn't affect their day-to-day lives consciously, right? They're not there. They're not stomach. So

Are you pretty excited that there's this momentum of free market? liberty free choice and that you can, as we wedge, as we see that problem like affecting, like we saw all the censorship on social media was just crazy, and the media and the propaganda. I mean, we were just, we were straight Russia in 1980 for eight years. It's so weird that people didn't notice that. I had family in Russia and the way they used to describe what it's like there, I was like, wow, that's the way it is here in the United States.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Do you feel an urgency to make sure that you get this package with that? Like, yo, people, do you realize that we could set the, because you're not asking them to do anything, you're just asking them to take the shackles off. Yes, that's right. That's right. And we're not asking to dismantle the food safety inspection service.

I'm not asking to be able to sell to Walmart and Costco and export. You don't want money. You're not, you don't need to be subsidized. Nothing. No, no, no, we don't. All I'm saying is, all I'm saying is that, that if we want, if we want to play a different game than Tyson, the game being we want to look our customer in the eye, our customer's going to make a voluntary choice as consenting adults to make a food choice.

At some level, we need to be able to engage in a food transaction, and a consumer needs to be able to engage in a food transaction and a consumer needs to be able to engage in a food transaction that doesn't require a bureaucrat in between that relationship at some level. And the problem is right now that can't happen at any level. One pot pie, one pound of sausage, one pound of ground beef. It can't happen at any level. So Congressman Thomas Massey from Kentucky has put in a constitutional amendment. Great man. He is a great man.

He's put in a constitutional amendment that says this, the right of the people to grow food and to purchase food from the source of their choice shall not be infringed. What people don't understand is right now, Americans do not have the right to choose their food. You don't have a right to, if somebody wants to come to my farm and say, hey, I like the way you make a sausage,

I'd like to buy some of it. They don't have a right to buy it unless the government says that I have passed a certain level of inspection and that is defined. We've already talked about that. So unlike the freedom to assemble, the freedom to speak, the freedom to worship, those are rights that give us if somebody impedes on those rights and says we're going to close your church or or no you can't speak. I mean this is what censorship is going about. You can sue because you have standing because we've been given by the bill of rights, we've been given inalienable human rights to give us standing to sue for redress if those rights get impinged.

The problem is in food, we don't have any standing. There's no legal standing for redress because there is no right to choose food. And going on to your, you know, at the top of the podcast here, you're talking about the boys in the girls' locker rooms. You know, it's amazing. We've given, we live in a time of choice. you're talking about the boys in the girls locker rooms, it's amazing, we live in a time of choice.

I mean, we've given choice to the bathroom, we've given choice to the bedroom, we've given choice to the womb, but we have not yet given choice to the kitchen. And that is an outrageous oversight in our culture. And so the single hardest, as I promote this, you know, food emancipation proclamation or whatever you want to call it, as I promote this, the hardest problem is that the average American looks at me and says, what do you mean?

I go to Walmart and look at all the choice. There's all sorts of different companies and labels and all this stuff. But think about the local, the recall from, well, anytime you see a recall and there's one company that's responsible, but look at the brands. Often there will be 20 to 30 brands that are affected. What that means is that that one company was that one funnel was supplying 20 to 30 brands and okay for an hour we'll slap Jolly Green Giant on it, for the next hour we'll slap Kroger, for the next hour we'll slap you know it's exactly the same thing. And so what appears like choice in the grocery store is actually no choice at all.

It is only an option that the bureaucratic, orthodox narrative has said, this is okay. That's the only choice you have. And so the hardest part of this whole argument is to get people to understand how limited their choices are and the possibilities of an explosion of not only innovation, but choice of nutrition, choice of processing, choice of production,

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7.5 percent times two off your order at true nutrition com with promo code seven s e v a n Take the guesswork out of your nutrition with true nutrition. Almost perfect. I did this experiment in college one summer for three months. I only ate food that I picked off of trees that were in my town. I live in California, just north of Santa Barbara. Yeah. And for three months, that's all I ate.

Just fruit I picked off of trees. And I knew where all the trees were. They were all on people's yards or whatever. And I knew that I was going to be able wow at the Santa Barbara. Yeah for three months. That's all I ate just fruit I picked off of trees and I knew where all the trees were they were all on you know, people's yards or Parks or I just knew and and it what was crazy is it's super it's it's it's it was so doable It was so easy and even to this day I have invasive passion fruit vines on my property that I planted on purpose Those fruits are four dollars a piece at Whole Foods and I throw away

3,000 of those a year because because I can't eat them fast enough. I mean I take put them in huge grocery bags I take them to people it's an amazing how much food there is already. I think there's even an app Joel That shows you where all the fruit trees are on public land an app, Joel, that shows you where all the fruit trees are on public land. Yes. And you can just, I lived in Berkeley for 20, 30 years and I walked everywhere and man, you could basically, you could go out and have lunch at almost six months of the year, just picking fruit off of people's trees. Yeah. Well, that's one of the things that drew people to California, right?

Yeah. It's a 12 month growing season. It's beautiful. I just talked with a lady earlier this week actually who has has about 400 acres of apple orchard up in Northern Virginia and Winchester area and and she said they they they threw away a 150,000 bushels of apples that they just they just couldn't get them picked. They just couldn't get them picked 150,000 bushels of apples. Yeah just they just couldn't get them picked. They just couldn't get them picked. 150,000 bushels of apples. Yeah, right now the world. Oh, you'll love this.

The world right now throws away 40% of all our human edible food. Never in human history. Never in human history has the global throwaway percentage been that high. So here we are with people saying, oh no, there's not going to be enough food. We've got overpopulation, da-da-da-da. And for the first time in human history, we're throwing away 40% of our human edible food. That's never happened before. And I would suggest that if we localized and we became intentional and actually started participating in the food system, that would drop again like it was under historic norms.

Hey, there's easily in Santa Cruz, California, where I live, 500 persimmons trees with a thousand persimmons each that won't get picked this year. I mean, easily. That's 500,000 persimmons just in my town. And you know what an amazing piece of fruit that is, right? Calorically dense. I mean, you could eat one of those a day and probably survive for a few months. It is wild. Yeah. It's those great big, the persimmons that we have here in the Shenandoah Valley are a little itty bitty. They're tiny. They're about half the size of a golf ball.

Persimmons you're talking about are almost as big as an apple. Yeah. They're bigger than apples. They're about the they're they're tiny. They're about half the size of a golf ball for Simmons You're talking about are almost as big as an apple. Yeah, they're bigger than apples. They're crazy. Yeah Hey, there's this there's this idea that you keep calling uberized You talk about this term you created uberized and I kind of I want to see if I understand it right what you're Also saying is is that technology and the ability for us to communicate at this really high level with apps like Yelp and message boards and the internet and Reddit and all this stuff, you're saying that there's never been less of a requirement for regulation and the policing because the people will police it themselves. So if I have a little stand outside my house that sells fruit,

the first time I sell someone something bad, they're going to make a little note about my house. Hey, don't buy fruit from over there. Those kids throw rocks at the cars when they pull up. And my shit's all unraveled, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're exactly right. And so, you know, I started at the top of the program explaining how we got here. The butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker

were embedded in the village. So the village voice became its sleuthing and betting program. And so then we industrialized, put everything behind razor wire and guard towers. So then people got scared and asked for government intervention. And now here we are popping out on the other side of industrial, from the industrial age, and we are now in the information age. So the internet has moved us from, you know, originally the American, the American economy, we were in the agriculture economy, then we were in

the industrial economy. Now we're in the information economy. And, and the information economy, then we were in the industrial economy, now we're in the information economy. And the information economy with the internet has elevated that village, that voice that was confined to the village with the embedded butcher, baker, and candlestick maker. It has now elevated that voice to a global village voice with real-time feedback and accountability, global village voice with real time feedback and accountability, which we have seen created by Uber. I mean, who would have thought 40 years ago if I said, you know what, you're going to travel to cities everywhere in the world, you're going to jump into a car that's completely unmarked with an unvetted driver, unvetted car, and you're just going to trust this guy

in this car to take you where you want to go, you just said, what? You're nuts. But what's happened with the internet and the democratization of monitoring, real time monitoring, is that we have been able to privatize the vetting procedure and return the village voice to a global democratic platform. And that and I call that Uberizing. And it and suddenly, yeah, we can we don't have any problem getting in a car that doesn't say taxi on top that doesn't have a chauffeur license, you know, a driver. Same with Airbnb. You know, who would have thought 50 years ago that that we would, you know, that we would go to a person's house and make ourselves at home? They're not even there. Think about this, Airbnb within 10 years of starting Airbnb offered more the same amount of hospitality space as Sheraton, Hilton and Marriott worldwide and nobody even pounded a nail. Wow.

That's the power. That's the power of the democratized real time vetting procedure that these systems have done. And so it is time to uberize our food system. And that will absolutely create the checks and balances within the system that can override everything. What happens now is, if Tyson has a problem, If Tyson has a problem, immediately it's all covered up in government licensing and inspection and it's all okay.

But if you're out here just on your own and you want to cast yourself out to that vulnerability, your attention to detail and your care of safe product is gonna go way through the roof because you don't have government skirts to hide behind that you buy with wine and cheese dinners. You know what's interesting too is the mallet that they're gonna wave at the people that they're gonna fight is always gonna be fear.

Someone's gonna get sick, someone's gonna get die, someone's gonna die. You know, the whole birthing community has the exact same thing, right? They've switched thinking that being born is a biological process that every woman goes through to a medical procedure. So raising a chicken now isn't something you do in your backyard and then go back there and slaughter and eat it. It's something that has to happen, Like you said behind the chain link. Yeah, it's a yeah, it's a mechanical It's a mechanical procedure

Yeah, and but the fact that they're really trying to protect us is a facade and it's not their right It's not their responsibility to protect us worse. You're not saying that Tyson still can't make chickens You're saying just let John next door who has five acres also compete with them. Yeah. Yeah. So what, so one of their arguments, one of their big arguments to me is, well, we need a level playing field. If we're going to demand this of Tyson, we need to demand this of too. Nevermind that Tyson processes, you know, 200,000 chickens or, you know, 300,000 chickens a day in one of their plants. And process you know 500, okay? You know without regard to that. They say we need to level playing field.

And so that argument is like saying well from now on we're not going to allow any Sunday afternoon pickup football games in backyards, we're gonna level the playing field for football. The only place you can play a football game is on an accredited NFL stadium field. That's the only place anybody can play football. And you can't say that the goal post is gonna be the lilac bush and the clothesline, you have to play on an NFL playing field. That's what level the playing field is. The fact is when we go out on a Sunday afternoon

with a bunch of guys and we do a pickup football game in the backyard, we kind of make up our rules. We all agree on it and we play and the field might not be 100 yards. Maybe it's only 50 yards. We're having a great time and we're doing, that's what I'm talking about. To require that, to level the playing field, to require that to only be done in an NFL stadium football field, suddenly denies all of the creativity, innovation, and community relational equity that develops

when we allow people to make their own, you know, make their own transactional choices. Heidi, does Joel have any single sons? Great question. It's fair. Solid question. So, yeah, Daniel is, yeah, his, unfortunately, we had, you know, families go through issues and our daughter-in-law kind of jumped off the cliff a couple of years ago. And so, yeah, Daniel is eligible.

All right. There's one He's all he's all yours That's that's a new one that I do a lot of these yeah that was a first that was a new one So Heidi you are you are Go girl. Thank you, Heidi. When we went through a pretty intense political season, this, I feel like it's been intense my whole life,

but in the last 12 years, it's been very intense. And when you brought up the McDonald's story and they talked about the thing with the onions, my first thing where I went was, oh, is this political? Because it was a day, they attacked McDonald's a day after Trump did his 15 minutes of frying at McDonald's. And so my brain made the connection there like, hey, are they going after McDonald's to punish him? That being said, and that's just just speculation i have no idea if that's true or not but that being said there's a guy named Scott Presser who's popped on my radar are you familiar with this

guy in Pennsylvania i think i've heard the name yes so the the thing with Scott Presser is he's being he's being credited by many groups as winning the election for Trump because what he did, I guess something happened to the Amish in Pennsylvania. Someone came and told him, hey, you can't do that to your milk. So Scott Presser, the story is that he registered to vote somewhere between 80 and 150,000 Amish in Pennsylvania that had never voted before. Uh-huh. Yes, I'm well aware of that story.

I'm very friendly with many Amish in the Amish community. And yeah, so what happened, there was an Amish farmer in Pennsylvania who was raided by the food police and has gotten a lot of press, a lot of traction. And I think it opened up a lot of their eyes that we just can't sit on our hands here and we need to participate. And so bless their hearts. Yeah, I've heard the same thing. And I think it's fantastic.

And what are the, just big picture, what are the Amish doing? What's their deal? I don't know much about them. They basically don't use electricity. They basically are a self-contained unit. They build their own stuff. They mate with their own people. They stay close to the land.

Is that their deal? Yeah, yeah, you've got it. They're very homogeneous insular, if you will. And so they, you know, many, many people realize they drive horse and buggy and they use petroleum instead of electricity. They're ingenious. I mean, they run, they run woodworking shops on air.

Instead of using electrical machinery, they have it all hooked up to pneumatic. So they use air to drive circle saws and saw mills and all sorts of things. They're incredibly ingenious, but yeah, they're very, very insular and they've taken a very non-participatory view toward government.

They basically, you know, our government is not here, it's in the heavens, okay? And so they just basically take a hands off approach. This is not our bailiwick. And when this ombudsman named Amos up in Pennsylvania got raided, and he's been in and out of court, in and out of court. I think it absolutely triggered something in that community. And so I've been pushing them to vote for a long, long time. In fact, I have even explained to them nicely with a smile on my face that it's hard for them to

appreciate how much many Christians dislike them because the I mean we're the only country in the world where the Amish have had the ability to really thrive and flourish I mean they started in Switzerland and fled to France and France to Netherlands and Netherlands to the UK, or, you know, and then Germany and in here. And so, you know, they've basically been on the run until they got to the US. And here they have thrived and flourished.

Why? Well, because we have freedoms, freedoms that were purchased by the blood and sweat of Americans who engaged. And so in a lot of respects, the Amish are viewed by people more in my whatever community as being freeloaders. You're enjoying what our military purchased for you from Great Britain and then has preserved ever since.

And so I think that understanding of, we can't just sit by on our hands is starting to penetrate them. It's what does the meek shall inherit the earth mean? Does meek mean that you just stay in your hole and never come out? Or does it mean that you don't, that you don't irrigate yourself over people?

Those issues are being debated now in the Amish community. And I think it's a very healthy thing. The AI definitely, oh, let me see. A quiet, gentle, easily imposed on submissive. Well, they clearly didn't do the submissive thing. Hey, so that's kind of their red pill moment, right Joel? Yeah. Like someone rubbed up again, like their freedom was so many

in the last 10 or 12, 15 years, so many of our freedoms are now finally. Yes. They're just encroaching and rubbing up on more and more people. Yes. Is it as simple as they just wanted to drink raw milk? It was a raw milk issue?

No, no, no, it wasn't a raw milk issue. Oh. No, no, it's an ability to engage in commerce in their community. Oh, oh, OK. That's the thing. This guy was doing meat and milk and different things, and Amos Miller.

And but they're seeing it, they're seeing this as a, they're seeing him as a canary in the mine, if you will, that they're going to be limited in their ability to interact with their community. And they don't want to export to Thailand. They don't want to export to, you know, to China. They want to, they want to, they're actually community related and they want to be able to keep their dollars circulating in their community. Well, if you, if you have that kind of circulatory economy in a community, you've got to have freedom to be able to engage in transactions, you know, without, without a federal agent getting in between.

I just wanted to show you that I pronounced the guy's name wrong. Let me see if I can, did I lose his? The guy's name is Pressler. There was an L and I didn't pronounce the L in it, Scott Pressler. But it's, I just wanna give him his due here for a second Scott Pressler It's just it's it's fascinating that one guy

Had such an enormous impact just by organizing people by finding the right people in the right place at the right time and And now he basically is on a mission. He's been emboldened and it sounds like there's some great clips in here. I encourage you to check him out. He probably could be a great ally, but basically, oh, here he is even with Laura Trump. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Well, you know, when you come down to it, these elections are sometimes very, you know, very it's not a lot of people that actually call things.

You mean you mean get up and actually do something? Well that but also that actually affect outcomes. I mean, if Oh, right, right. I mean, if you walk into a county supervisors's meeting, for example, with five or six people all banded together on one issue, you'll own that meeting. You don't have to go in there with 100 people. If you go in there with five or six people, you can own that meeting on your issue at the local level.

Yeah. And it's amazing because on one hand, you know, people, there was stories of Kamala spending $10 million on Beyonce for four and a half minutes of a speech. Right. I bet you this guy didn't even spend, you know, 1% of that to organize 80 to 150,000 Amish. Yeah, well, the thing is with the Amish,

they are so clannish that if you can get a ball rolling at some corner, that ball rolls really, really easy. I mean, I know people, for example, that work with the Amish closely in providing a service. And boy, if they can get one or two families really gung-ho, then man, they've got it made in the shade. Everybody's gonna use their product. If they can get one or two families really gung ho, then man, they've got it made in the shade. Everybody's gonna use their product. It's gonna just go flying right through the community

because everybody's close. Kara Smith, he's been doing this for years, meaning Scott Pressler registering voters, but only recently got any attention from the Republicans. They don't deserve Scott, ouch. He has been grinding for years. Hey, you know, a lot of people have been grinding for years and it takes a while. Tanya Bowers, Meek, Mindness of Disposition, Gentleness of Spirit. All right. Thank you. There was a topic you mentioned about ponds on the United States that 8% of the continental

United States used to be covered in water and now it's 4%. Did I get that correct? Yes, you did. What's happening? And then recently, I don't even know if it was true, but recently on Joe Rogan, I don't know if it was when he had Trump on or he had, I think it was when he had Trump on, he talked about a lake that was like a third the size of California that used to sit in the middle of our state. Now it's gone and it was here a hundred years ago.

It's weird. I'd never even heard of that. Um, uh, what, what's happening to, to, to all the ponds. People are filling them. They're dangerous. They're afraid of mosquitoes. Is it some fear kid? They don't want kids drowning all the above. I mean, I picked all the fear-based stuff, right? Yeah. Well, first of all, realized that that 8% of water coverage in North America 500 years ago, pre-European, was primarily from beavers, beaver dams. We had 200 million beavers and historically a lot of them were a lot larger than beavers we have today. We've actually found beaver skeletons that are almost the size of a small car. So these

were very, very large beavers that could move, you know, cut big trees and actually make these dams. So it was beaver dams. And what happened was as the North America got Europeanized, most of the Europeans came from Germany and the Netherlands and obviously the UK, Scotland, Ireland. And that area of the world is extremely temperate and wet. And so when you go visit those areas, I mean, especially the Netherlands, but certainly, you know, Great Britain, much of the agricultural or well, much of the human development theme is all about drainage. We've got to dry, we've got to get this drained so we can actually plant potatoes or whatever in it. And so the mentality is drainage. Well actually, not very

much of the world needs drainage. Most of the world needs hydration. And so when the Europeans came here, it was all about how do we drain this water? And it was all about drainage rather than hydration. And so not only have we killed the beavers, but we have also taken a lot of bins out of the Mississippi River. We've done a lot of things to stimulate drainage so there's just not as much water on the landscape. And yeah, and we've changed it from 8% down to less

than 4%. Even with, you know, Tennessee Valley Authority and manmade lakes and all the things that we've done, we still haven't even begun to approach the level of what the beavers had here. So we have literally dried out the landscape by either killing all the beavers and not replacing that water or B, with massive drainage projects that move water faster. In California, it's virtually illegal to have a pond any bigger than a bathtub because they consider if you build a pond, you're hoarding water. But if you, but if you, if you contain surface runoff, we're not talking about pumping from an aquifer, but if you, if you stop surface runoff, by definition surface runoff means that the commons is already

full. The cup of the commons is full. Or either there's too much rain coming at once or there's too much rain accumulating overall, the soil can't absorb anymore and so it's running off. And by holding that water in a pond or a lake, that becomes a flood control for downstream and meters out water for irrigation and other things when the rains are short. And so, you know, the Australian PA Yeomans

who wrote water for every farm and developed the key line system, he said that every farmer should aspire to eliminate surface runoff from his farm. And then he had two rules. One is eliminate surface runoff, B, I mean, with inventory, by being able to inventory surface runoff.

And then the second thing was to never end a drought with a full pond, that ponds were built. So, I mean, let me give you an example. Interstate 81, we're here in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. Interstate 81 runs right down the center of the Shenandoah Valley. And of course, it's undulates and you've got valleys

and you've got, yeah, thank you. You've got valleys and you've got hills and stuff. And so, as the flat interstate goes, it's constantly going over and cutting through hills and going over valleys. Well, if instead of all those valleys being built up with culverts in the bottom of them, culverts down in the bottom of drain of water,

if the culverts been placed up high and all those fills had been dams, the whole valley today would just be this beautiful bird flyway and hydrologic, hydrologic, uh, uh, eidetic oasis, if you will, same amount of dirt to move. But instead of the culvert being at the bottom to drain it, the culvert's at the top so it can run out when the pond gets full. And that whole interstate could just be, you know, all that excavation and dirt movement could have actually been the most amazing ecological hydration project in the world. Instead, what it did was simply stimulate drainage so that the water gets away from us instead of staying and and and that that same thing has happened all over the US

as as as drainage dominates drainage dominates water water Philosophy, it's all about drainage not about hydration One of the things you mentioned in the podcast was that they didn't want ponds on properties where there was you know other things going On livestock or other things because then birds would fly in there and use the ponds and that bird somehow carry disease, right? I was like, holy shit. I've driven a Thousand times between San Francisco

and Los Angeles, and I've always wondered why are there all these cows, all these animals, all these fruit trees, and there is never any water. There's never any lakes, ponds. Once you leave Northern California, the whole strip is just completely flat, and there's none of that. And I was like, oh, that's why.

These are these huge farms with cows and fruit trees And all the stuff and they're and they're basically pushing the birds away Yes. Yes, that's exactly right exactly right Yeah, what what a shame? Is there is there is there any is there any truth to that? You know, is there is there any truth to like? Is there any truth to like 5,000 egrets flying overhead, stopping on a pond on your property and leaving some sort of disease there?

No, I don't think so. I mean, I know somebody will say, oh, you're being awful cavalier, but goodness, throughout history, you know, wellness doesn't come from the end of a syringe, you know, and, but that's our mentality today, that wellness comes from the end of a syringe. And no, I mean, the fact is that if you actually had

an ecological approach where the cows were moved every day like the bison, and you actually had an ecological approach where the cows were moved every day like the bison and you actually stimulated birds, including native birds, to eat the bugs and insects and mosquitoes and the ponds had fish in them to feed other things. We could eat them, obviously, but, you know, if you balance out, if you balance out the ecology, it'll be fine. And then the problem is, right now, we don't have that balance. And so all the farmers think they've got to vaccinate their cows, they've got to give them, you've got to give them warmers and grubicides and parasiticides and all these things. Well, it's because there's no birds around because there are no ponds around

and there's no healthy groves of trees around. And so, when you have an imbalanced ecosystem, then your domestic livestock and your trees and your orchards and your vines and stuff become fungal and parasitic and have all sorts of problems because of the ecological imbalance. I guess once again, it's also like, hey, is the cure going to cause more problem than the problem? I mean, just one component of the lockdowns the average American put on 29 pounds.

I mean, like that alone is like that's that's like Chernobyl. That's like the world's law. I mean, that surpasses. I mean, what a disaster that the average American put on 29 pounds of fat that you won't. We're not going to recover from that. We're I mean, not that generation. Those people who did that, that's going to be really hard to lose that. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I will argue people's limitations, but what a disaster. Yeah. Well, that's why we have Ozempic. Right. Sorry. Thank you. Right. Right.

Innovation. Yes. Innovation. Did you see that the UK, I think they're really close to implementing that if you, when they give you unemployment benefits, if it's because you're overweight They'll also give you free ozempic at a cost of fifteen hundred dollars a month to get you to lose weight to get you back in the workforce And sounds that sounds like the British Hey, I really appreciate you coming on

Hey, I really appreciate you coming on. One final thing, someone made an observation about your t-shirt. I thought it was a very astute observation. It looks like you might be Superman under there with that blue shirt. Are you Superman? No. No, you're not? Okay, all right. It's a fair comment. You could be Superman. You could be Clark Kent, but as Joel Saladin.

Yeah, that's right. I'm all incognito. Right. Hey, brother. Thank you so much. You're a unique creature because so many people who know as much as you aren't workers. They're not what I call doers. And you are a doer who's on the farm every day. And yet you can travel between both places to the non-doer world where the bureaucrats sit. And thank you so much for making that journey back and forth and spreading the good word. And it really seems like of all the people I've met

in my life, you are really on your path and you've really nailed your calling more so than most. I mean, you are so equipped as a human being to be where you are. It's awesome. It's awesome to see. Thanks for letting the listeners here and myself get 90 minutes of your time and take a peek into it for a second time. You're so kind and gracious. Thank you for having me. It's a true honor and a privilege.

All we want to do is we just want to be faithful. Thank you. Greg Glassman told want to be faithful Thank you and Greg Glassman told me to say hi to you, you know, that was one of the great things about when I worked at CrossFit He would bring great people like you to come. Yes At headquarters He's doing a big event at his house January 11th and 12th He said he was gonna reach out to you and give you an invite, you and Jay Bhattacharya. So anyway, yeah, great to see you

and I'll stay in touch and thanks for being so responsive with the emails and all that. Absolutely, thank you. Have a great day. Yep, have a great day. Holy shit, I'm lucky. Joel Salton, what a stud oh My god, so Daniel Heidi Daniel, that's the guy who's single

Hello? Dude, did you hear? Catherine's pregnant. Oh, she's trying to get pregnant. Oh shit. Am I on the air? Oh shit. I'll call you back. Bye.

Sorry. Forgot I was doing a show. My bad. Sorry, I forgot I was doing a show. My bad. There's so many things I want to talk to you guys about. I want to talk to you about the highly esteemed John Woolley, the incredible, loving, and accepting Meredith Root. I wanted to talk to you about my nigga Patrick Clark.

That's what I want to talk to you about. Yeah, yeah. So many fun things. So many good gossipy things. Oh! Talking Elite Fitness. And that incredible move that they did that was so slick. That was media genius that they did. I want to say, god I really there's so much to unpack with that video it's so fucking funny. I did learn some people learned that um god there's so much to unpack. God there's so much to unpack. It's so fun. Sometimes when I look at Patrick Clark, I think that he put on a Christian Clever Halloween costume and just never took it off.

Like he just dressed up as a... Christian Clever and just never took it off. Oh man, there's so much stuff to talk about. Imagine clipping stuff. Oh, I just can't do it. I really don't want to ruin this show. This is so, so good. All right. I'll just leave it.

I'll come back. I owe John Wooley a formal apology for mischaracterizing him For mischaracterizing him but um But I'll come back and give him a better apology. No, I'm not doing it now I gotta come back on but today's one of my kids birthdays turned eight. Let go in and check. I want to do it's gonna be such a crazy good show I'm going to fucking like you guys haven't seen me in this form in a long time. I am gonna go Uh, i'm not being a pussy

Uh, listen, it's like um, I want to do this, right? I want to like I am going to uh Go completely fucking nuclear just start a new stream. I know it's but it's my son's birthday I need to go see what's going on Do it tonight with sunglasses I'll wear the sunglasses. I'm gonna I'm gonna get really amped up I'm gonna fucking go scorched earth like you guys have never seen it's gonna be so fun Just imagine if the just go over and look at John Woolley's post, where he calls me out for mischaracterizing his take on, on, what, I don't even remember what it was about. What did I say? Oh, I said that he thought the entire time that CrossFit was going to come clean with the investigation.

And he said, I never said that. And then he showed a clip where it just completely proving me wrong. And he juxtaposes the two clips together and just shows that I'm completely wrong. Then there's these comments. and I just want to go through the comments with you guys. I was I was dying. I was dying laughing. I was reading them to my wife last night. There are some pretty funny ones in there but the one that's the one that's rude that's not so funny is there's a guy in there who claims that Patrick Clark is taking clips from this show and feeding them to this guy's wife, who's hot as fuck. And then from there, this guy's wife is showing him to this man. So this man will be offended. It's crazy

I'm struggling to believe it's true that someone would do that. I'm even more struggling that that someone would fall for that But anyway, and then and then of course met we'll have a blast with Meredith route. Oh, shit, my own team is as pounding me right now. That is a crazy photo you just sent me. I shouldn't stretch like that. I shouldn't. I shouldn't... I shouldn't stretch... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA First of all, someone just... Okay, I'm getting off. I'm gonna just show you this one thing and then I'm getting off. I wanna go, I gotta go spend time with my kid.

But someone just sent me this. First of all, do I really, that's how I stretch? No wonder so many of you think I'm gay. Dude, I totally look like I take the cock there. Anyway, can you guys hear this? Can you tell me if you guys can hear this? This is I can't believe I just said this. Is there audio on this for you guys?

Can you guys hear the audio? Dude, you're still live? Oh my goodness. The gay stretch. 100 times a day. Yup. Fag stretch. That's the stretch of a closeted man. All right, I'm out of here. Listen, I I'll be back. It's gonna be such a fun show. I need a good title. I'm just gonna it's that time of year. You know what I mean?

Motions running high got Dave in the mix my boy Dave Patrick Clark my text buddy of You know what I mean? Motion's running high, got Dave in the mix, my boy Dave. Patrick Clark, my text buddy of, UFC text buddy is sending clips of my show to white women who date black men, trying to get the black men to fucking hate me. Oh, Patrick, why? Why? John Wooley ass-pounds me on Instagram. It ends up being a dog. Is it? Am I using this term right? Ends up being a dog whistle for, um, for all the haters. What a cool, what a, he kind of did me this huge favor.

Handed me a big dose of humble pie and Did the dog whistle and called the all the all my haters into one room so I can see you all that's that's pretty awesome It's pretty awesome Oh now I know you were taught who you're talking about ultra hot woman dating black man. Yeah, this chick's so fucking hot I mean, he's hot too. They're both hot I'll show you the guy seems so cool doesn't seem like he wants to like He might get some like, you know, like what's the term when you catch strays the guy seems cool as shit But this guy, this guy here, Patrick Clark was telling,

this was in this guy's DMs, feeding him clips of this guy here. Is this the guy? Yeah. Let me see if I can find his hot wife, him and his hot. So Patrick Clark's and this guy's wife's DMs telling her, taking clips of, from the show trying to get this guy all freaked out. And then they're talking about, that but he out Patrick and the thing so this guy's demand Patrick Clark is Demand is basically Patrick are going on. I don't even want to do the bit It's such a good bit, but Patrick Clark is definitely a plantation. He runs the plantation. He's he's upset He didn't want any brothers getting off the plantation. He wants to make sure that they're all offended by the word They're all offended by the word. They're all offended. You gots to be, you was born being offended

by that word, Jew boy, and you'll die being offended by it. When you hear kike, you get all riled up. I know, nah, I would, PC's not trying to smash her. Dude, let's face it, PC is gay as fuck. Let's face it, PC is gay as fuck. But anyway, I hope it's not true. I hope it, because... But PC probably does not like it that he sees his boy Brian get just fucking

completely ass pounded regularly in the community and it's probably frustrating to have your boat hitched to that. So why not demand hit this guy's wife up in the DMs and then be like, yo, say we got issue with the black man. Anyway, I think that's one of the few people I've never said anything disparaging about on this show is the black man. Unless you're an NPC, then you're programmed, then if you're a plantation, if you're on the plantation, then you have to be demanded, offended by what I say.

So anyway, we'll get to it. But this guy seems like a cool dude. It sucks that kind of he got sucked into it. I like, you like my black man voice? It's my real voice. This fucking other voice isn't my real voice. I do this, this is my on air voice. You should, when I'm in the house talking to the kids

Yeah sucks it sucks I'm. I'm a little sad. I'm a little sad. Patrick Clark is a micropenis. You are black. How can you have an issue? I know it's a very complicated world. All right. I'll come back. Let me go hang out with my kids a little bit.

Let me see what's going on. Maybe if they're still doing schoolwork for a couple hours, I'll come back on like in 15 minutes, but there's so many good, so I mean, I remind me, I want to talk about, give a formal apology to John Woolley for coming on his back. Then talk about, and then I want to go through, and then I want to talk about talking about elite fitness. And dude, there's so much to unpack with that the what I saw between the relationship between Tommy and Sean and Lauren was crazy. Everyone's probably going to be focused on the fact that they said what I said two months ago, I think I revealed too much whenever she got the titties, I knew she was taking the the the cock to get pregnant. But so we got to unpack that. But more importantly, there's a dynamic between the three of them that I spotted there that I'm like oh shit they got put they Houston we have a problem and and then and then of course then I want to go through some of the comments I want to address Patrick Clark trying to

get my what's his name my homeboy King Kingz all fired up Trying to keep King Dez on the plantation He'd getting up in his wife's DMS and shit Then Meredith route and then and then I don't know me if there's some other in people in there need an ass-pounding we can Fucking tickle their anus too. All right, talk to you guys soon I'm still in the air. Okay, bye. Bye