The Sevan Podcast - Pamela Gagnon | Mayhem Gymnastics #1007

Episode Date: September 9, 2023

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so just give me one sec. Yeah. The old connect the Bluetooth. So just give me one sec. Yeah. The old connect the Bluetooth. It should. Okay. Let's try. All right. Hold on. Good morning, all. Good morning, Ernie, Robbie, Rambler, Stephen, Haley.

Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Pamela, of course. Good morning all Good morning Ernie, Robbie, Rambler, Stephen, Haley Good morning everyone Good morning Pamela of course Good morning And of course we're still being throttled Yeah take your time Yeah We're having technical difficulties Can you hear me without

I can do you want to log out And then connect it and log back in You're welcome to do that too Let's see let me just see if it picks it back up okay hold on man guys we are being throttled so hard this is wild i have never seen it at 20 not even on day one of the podcast crazy we got it crazy crazy no you're it's still uh your phone oh you do hear it in your ears yeah can you hear me oh yeah yeah now your audio is better good job look at you technically i mean

you know at 49 i still got a little tech in me you know family do you have kids right i do how old they are i got one that's 19 and one that's 21, both in college. They just started their sophomore year and junior year at school. You have a worst injury of the kids who had the worst injury ever? I have, you know how like kids are like kind of, they're part of your dna so they're very um part of you and i'm like a very mild-tempered person and i had boys like that as well too so they were not like crazy rowdy they didn't like they were lovers not fighters i guess is how i described them um but with that being said i I was traveling, I work for CrossFit

gymnastics headquarters, and I was traveling on a seminar and we have this little like basketball hoop in the playroom and they were little and they weren't, they're not like aggressive kids, but they were having fun, you know? And one of them went to go dunk and their dad was with them because I was away and he hit the corner of the wall that like jets out and just blood gushing down, gushing. And he needed four staples in his head. I, you know, it's so crazy. I don't even remember which kid it was.

I used to yell at my mom. I used to yell at my mom. Like when my kids were little, I was like, Oh, did I do that? She's like, I don't remember. Like, how would I remember? I'm like, how do you not remember? And now, you know, 20 years later, I'm like, I don't know which kid it was. Um, I think it was my younger one. So I was away for the whole trauma, which is a good thing because I don't do well,

like as a mom seeing blood gushing out of my like boy's head. So their dad was really good very confident about it because he was a wrestler in college and like he he was a little more rough and humbler you know that type of guy so yeah just stitches do you have stitches for staples right right i've had nasty right yeah? Yeah. Hey, I can't. We're getting a little bit of hiss from your earpieces. I wonder if it's better if we don't use them. How was it for you?

How was it for you? Oh, it's great. OK, let's try without them. Thank you. I think they were rubbing on something, but there's like a little bit of a hiss, like glassy echo. I gotcha. All right. We good? Yeah, I think that's better. I think that's better. Maybe the sound isn't as good, but we don't have that little bit of hiss. There's some sort of rubbing.

Last night I had, yesterday morning at the skate park, I think we now have our officially our worst accident. My boy broke his shin. Oh, I'm so sorry. And so my wife didn't sleep last night. First, we didn't take him to the hospital till late at night, till eight o'clock. It was like, OK, something's really wrong. So he sat with it for like 10 or 12 hours. And then but every like 30 minutes, he screams in agony.

Oh, I know. I feel so bad for him He's so good I've been you know Kind of watching him learn So cool like my kids were not Daredevils like that like you gotta like Just go for it and my Boys like overthought things like probably

Like their mother a little Yeah I feel Like relative to the other kids at the skate park My kids are really cautious um but uh uh man that's a tough injury oh it was it was it was i would thank god i was right there um yeah thank god i was right there i was able to just go down into the bowl pick him up carry him out put him in the car um but i saw he was shaking in the car and i'm like oh is he going into shock and then i got him home

and he hasn't been the same since but we took him to the hospital yesterday of course they didn't they they're like hey do you want to give him some narcotics my wife's like no poor kid he got like parents who don't believe in that shit i feel sorry for him that's right. Rub a little, like my grandmother, like when my kids were teething, she's like, put a little like, you know, like whatever bourbon on your finger, rub it on the gums. It'll be good. We're all good. We got it.

He'd probably rather have that. He got the parents instead of like getting Oxycontin, he's probably like getting like essential oils on his neck. It's my youngest boy, Robbie. for asking it's ari and what another thing that's kind of hard but i don't really care about is that uh he has a jiu-jitsu tournament this weekend and he's been on a tear his last two tournaments he's dominated he was probably going to dominate this one yeah but but whatever i just feel he screamed all night every 30 minutes he screamed and my other kids what's interesting is my other kids were grinding their teeth last night in their sleep

i had put them in my bed with me i and i'm sure it's because their their brothers you know they were crying when they saw their brother got hurt so back to my story of my youngest with the blood and it was my youngest now who got the staples my oldest literally like was hyperventilating because he was so nervous about his brother and he he sat with him like all night too and i was like damn that's like awesome love right there like that i feel like that's just innate in your like nature of like care and concern and i'm like i love that trait about my boys they're they're very um they they feel you know and i love that i think that's really cool yeah they don't want to leave aside they they jumped up this morning and ran to his bedroom he slept in his bedroom

last night with my wife yeah they jumped up an hour earlier than they normally wake up and just ran in there like they had they wanted to make yeah it's crazy i love that yeah i love that yeah what do you think about um uh i was watching a couple of your podcasts yesterday and you were talking about parents who hover and i got like crazy defensive because like i'm i'm a such a hovering parent um okay it's an interesting place to be. How I know I'm hovering is I'm the only parent who's at all the events. And I have coaches say, hey, you need to drop your kids off and leave. And I'm like, no. You know what I mean?

So I sit there. I sit there with my kids. What do you describe what you mean by hovering? And let me see if I can, let me see if I can wiggle around it. Okay. And don't worry about hurting my feelings at all. Yeah. A friend of mine told me that ESPN shooting a pilot show called helicopter

dad, and that he's nominated me. I said, I'm game. He's all people are going to hate you. I'm like, that's fine. You got to be who you are that he's nominated me I said I'm game he's all people are gonna hate you I'm like that's fine you gotta be who you are yeah I'm good with it I'm good with it yeah okay so I'm gonna go back to my childhood and my experience as a gymnast yeah my parents never once said uh you should work harder at practice or, um, you know, sat at my practice. And when we got in the car, I was like, well, why'd you do it that way? I saw Shannon do it this way. Or, um, they let me drive my train and I never felt like I was going to disappoint them. If I was like, was going to disappoint them if I was like hey this sport isn't for me or if I was just tired and I was like I don't I don't have it in me to like you know stay at practice all day I've had

a really rough day um now this works for kids probably more like me who are um you know, driven in their own innate nature. So what I mean by hovering is I had friends whose parents would, after the gymnastics meet, be like, you know, they'd, they'd inquire in a more, um, I felt like demeaning way of like, well, I don't understand why, why you know you didn't get a 9.75 what'd you do wrong you know instead of just being like hey it was so fun watching you did you did you enjoy the experience and for me life is about experiences not the outcome of my like podium win and was it always like that or was it always like that um yes and i think that due to my hard work and my attitude of like no i i want to like figure out how to get this skill maybe that's why i coach the way i do like little details inside the skill because it brought me to a like a final destination without even knowing

I was going to get there. You know? Um, it was me more like my mind is really interested in how to break things down more than, um, like the final product of the skill, you know? So can you hear me? I can totally hear you. I'm just changing your name to put your Instagram on there. So, okay. So if people were to ask, like, was I a hovering parent? I would not say I was a hovering parent. I would say I was over a little bit overprotective or like a nervous parent of like, you know, my kids running through the neighborhood without me knowing where they were i was like oh like don't don't go up to the white van you know like don't fall for the puppy you didn't want to impress your parents i still want to impress my parents you didn't want you weren't seeking approval from your parents i mean obviously it's it's much um different now but like i'm really into fruit trees i'm really into fruit trees. I'm really into plants and my parents were really into plants. So when I like have a tree that's like bearing good fruit, like I'm excited to show my parents like, Hey, look, like kind of, you taught me this and you taught me to

appreciate this and look what I've done. I followed in your steps. Like, I'm kind of excited for that you don't have that i do and i think that my parents though they were um they let me again like kind of like make my own path and they continually were not not like smoke up my ass but like positively like i love that this is your passion how can i support you in this my mom oh i love it okay like i i grew up in boston and my mom drove 30 minutes each way to drive me to practice in the dark cold boston winters and like um my dad would miss his golf tournament to come to my gymnastics meet in Maryland or like, and like, how can I support you? Like, and that that to me was them saying, I'm proud of what you're doing. I had very, very supportive parents. I had a really just honestly beautiful childhood.

I very much feel very lucky my dad was um a very like soft emotional man that I could come to I never felt that I was gonna get yelled at meaning I felt like it was more like okay we fucked up like how are we gonna like fix this or you know make, make it better. And my mom, um, was extremely organized and driven. And I got that from her too. Um, so yes, I did love to please them, but I feel like them allowing me to drive my own train and them supporting me felt like they were proud of me. How did you meet your husband? So we are divorced for two years. And we were married 21 years. We're still good friends.

Just kind of went, you know, different directions. But we met clubbing at the Jersey Shore. No shit. Wow. Yeah. Is he like your dad? Yes and no. You know, I think that's a, that's more of like a therapy session.

When you, I say that because you described how your sons behaved and you described your dad in a certain way. And I'm wondering, is it like that? Like if the kid's dad was like, you keep searching for the same. Yeah. like that like if the kids dads was like you keep searching for the same yeah like like it's it seemed my mom it's your son seemed like what my mom wanted to raise me my mom wanted to raise me as a very as a gentleman uh not a not a pushover or a weak man but but um i don't know what the word is but I like the way you described your sons. And then the way you sort of described your dad.

And then I was just wondering, like, did you continue that? Like, how do you find a man like that? Did you find a man like that? Yeah. So the people I think in my life are very open and vulnerable and allow like emotion to come into their world. So, yes, in that way, very much so. And I continue that. Like, I am a very open, vulnerable, I feel like I want to know the depth of my friend, like deep in their soul. That is very important to me. And I have a very small circle. And I think that's why because I,

I really like the depth of a soul more than just like, hey, let's go grab a drink. That's not me. I want to sit and have deep conversations about real tough stuff or interesting stuff. Were you always like that? Or did you have something to switch? No, I think I was always like that. I'm an introverted extrovert. So if you were to see me at the CrossFit Games, like talking to people, you'd be like, Oh, she's so, you know, extroverted and outgoing. But like, I leave, I left at four o'clock every day. And I just was like, shut the world off, you know. So I like alone time, but I also love people. And, but instead of it fueling me it drains me does that

make sense so that's why being with like one person in a deep conversation i don't like crowds like uh the games overwhelms me i feel very like i feel like i'm floating around and untethered and everybody else is tethered does that make sense yes yes um what month are you born june june 25th of my birthday what do you think i don't know i don't know that stuff but me either but but i but i always wonder i look for for you know kind of connections or correlations like that i uh really really really love people and enjoy people. I really like being alone. I really don't want to be. I'm really comfortable just outside walking by myself, just chilling. Were you like that as a kid too? Yeah. My mom always said it didn't even matter.

You could give me a bag of rubber bands and I would play with them for hours. I didn't need, but I, but I like people. I'm not, I'm, but, but I, but I'm not really interested in, I'm very content being by myself, just my wife or my kids, or just even by myself. I don't get as much alone time as probably I need. But my kids are such good mirrors of me that it's kind of like I'm alone. Yeah. Isn't that cool? I love how like that works. Like my kids and I, we get each other because we are a lot alike in many, many ways. And we have a lot of things we

like to do together. We all play guitar. Um, we all, we love years. you got two years of guitar now huh good job yeah good job i love it oh like love my scared you weren't scared you sucked at music and then you picked up a guitar at 47 um how'd you have time for that so i it was oh you got rid of your husband and picked up a guitar holy shit kind of right i mean you know you tend to like try to fill your space with other things right no yeah um so i did it was during covid i was going batshit crazy um i don't sit well and that was the toughest year of my life or not toughest but it was a tough year of my life. And my boy.

Aren't you in Cookville? Did Mayhem do COVID? And you're not in Cookville. I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina. Oh, okay. You should have gone to Cookville. I don't think they did COVID there. I know, you're right. I have to say, like, my gym opened up, you know, fairly quickly.

But I still didn't know anything about COVID. And my dad, you know, is older i still didn't know anything about covid and my dad you know is older he lives here like you know i i feel very differently now about it than i did then and i were free you were freaked out a little bit in the beginning yeah like i just think education is key and also um not opinionated education you know, I don't have cable news. I don't have tea. I actually don't have cable. I don't listen. I like science, you know, like facts.

So anyway, so was I terrified? Yes, my children. So music is like a fuel to my soul. Like I have music on, it's either, I rarely have TV on, meaning like Netflix or something. It's music probably 90% of the day. And I was so jealous of watching my boys just play for me. And I was like, gosh, I need to learn this. play for me and I was like gosh I need to learn this like um and my last my last experience with learning an instrument was fourth grade the violin and this is what happened this is the

best story ever so I'm practicing upstairs and my mom's like friends are over and my mom is so she passed away six years ago brain cancer but i hear her voice saying this and telling this story and she goes you know ellie was over and we were sitting in the kitchen and ellie goes what the hell is that noise and she goes oh gosh that's my daughter practicing violin that's like how bad i was at music no ear for it none so that was my last experience so I said to my boys I'm like there's no way I'm gonna be able to play the guitar I have not one musical bone in my body and they're like nope you're gonna do it and so I went bought a guitar like you know beginner guitar and my boys sat there with me while my fingers like bled no calluses

and they're like practice the d string for 10 minutes like they'd set a timer and I'm like all right and then they're like okay now I want you to go ad ad ad and three months they they sat there just patiently working with me and I actually teared up a few times because I was like it's not worth it I'm not gonna do it and my youngest son Leo goes mom I was there you're gonna get over the hump come on you got this and like literally they like were my cheerleaders and then it clicked and I was like oh my gosh like I can do AD you know and then they're like all right we're gonna introduce E to you you know and I was like oh my gosh like I can do ad you know and then they're like all right we're going to introduce e to you you know and it finally like each increment I felt like you

own your own guitar did you own your own guitar yep yep and so I I think my children and they were you know I don't know 17 and 19 at the time I think that they were the catalyst to me not giving up um because they were like no no we sucked too like it was terrible and I was like I don't remember that I just remember you like now you know um so I got over that hump and then about maybe six months into it I needed lessons like I just you know and they they went off to college and all that or school and then I started taking lessons from this amazing guitar teacher Dave and again it's not just a lesson it's like we we've gotten to know each other on like a really great personal level and it's the brightest part

of my week like going to take lessons with dave it doesn't annoy you that doesn't annoy you like like he starts talking about stuff that's not music related or you start talking and you're like no no we're here to work quiet no because i think it makes our music together even better all right all right yeah sometimes my kids and their instructors will start talking in like 20 minutes will pass. I'll be like, yo, listen, I'm paying you a hundred bucks to chat my kid up. I do. I do get that with my kids when they were little, like, like,

like a basketball practice that I was like, why are they not like doing anything? I don't understand what's going on. You know? So yes, I get that from like that perspective for sure. Um, but I love guitar. I'm not good at it and I'm okay. Took me a long time to be okay. Not being good at something I work really hard at, but I'm getting better. Can you pronounce your last name for me? Yeah. It's Gagnon. Gagnon, uh, formerly known as in some circles, still known as Pammy. Not Pam. A lot of people say Pamela.

But the true way would be to say it sort of like your Latin. You prefer the Latin pronunciation, which you don't get enough of. Pamela. Pamela. Pamela. Pamela. Pamela. Pamela.

I have a few friends who, you know. Pamela. Pamela. Pamela. Pamela. I have a few friends who, you know, Pamela are Colombian or like speak Spanish and Pamela. It's like Pamela. How's my shoulder position, Pamela? Pamela. So for those of you who don't know her as a mom, guitar player and dweller in the carolinas she is also three times uh games athlete i know her from instagram um i've been talking about her for years this is a crazy crazy cool instagram account this is i don't really i don't think i say that very often about people's instagram accounts um she is the gymnastics um expert with Mayhem. Is that fair to say? She works with CrossFit Mayhem. I don't think, like many of us who are around Fitty, I don't think she expected her life to be like this. There was no such thing as CrossFit when she was growing

up. And now she probably has fallen into some sort of dream world where she gets to move her body around and hang out with really cool people who want to move their bodies around. I'm telling you, this Instagram account is crazy. You have to get lost on this. You have to make this your favorites. This is the one, for those of you who don't know how to subscribe and get all notifications this is that kind of account you want to see pamela and you want to spend 30 seconds watching these videos every day because you will just learn from watching them and hear her talk you'll start you'll be all the pieces are there you're going

to be inspired you're going to be learned you're going to learn but you're also going to have some sort of um uh experience where you see something she does and you're just going to learn it just from watching it you're you're an incredible teacher man and thank you for your gift yeah yeah you're providing crazy stuff thank you that means a lot that means a lot um just sorry real quick here heidi i was thinking that too private lessons with dave a little guitar and uh you know that's that's totally what i was thinking i'm just saying i love it i love it well thank you that means a lot um i was a fourth and sixth grade teacher as well oh oh yeah um that's um when i went i graduated rutgers university went to grad school at Penn for my master's in education and taught for five years before really kind of my kids were really young when I stopped teaching. But I think my mom was a teacher. My sister was a teacher. I think that we just have that in our genes.

And my favorite teacher and you're still a teacher. And you're still a teacher. I know. I love that. I think my favorite students are the ones who come to me that I have a story when I taught fourth grade. We sit down at the end of the year with the third grade teachers and we divvy up the kids. And they're like, oh, you got Ryan. Good luck with that one. And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, oh, he's such a troublemaker.

And I'm like, you know, he was my favorite student that next year. Ryan just needed like somebody to just understand what made him tick. And he was really into Pokemon. This is a true story. And so everything we did, writing, math, it was related to his Pokemon. I was like, tell me more. Who's your favorite character? What do they do?

And kids who are troublemakers just need to be loved a little bit differently. You sound like my wife. You sound like my wife. Yeah. And it was like, gosh, he's just struggling. He has trouble learning. And he's just brushed to the side and he's, you know, and he was my favorite student. And same here. Like I have,

uh, like 10 private lessons that come to my garage athletes that, you know, some are games athletes and most are just wanting to age stronger. And I have an athlete who lost, you know, 70 pounds. and she came to me and said I just want to learn a strict pull-up like one I just want to be able to do one in my life and great goal great goal great goal great goal fuck it's so good to do one pull-up I love it my mom got a pull-up like in 70 or some shit no way yeah crazy crazy crazy great goal change your whole life change your whole life yeah and it's not more about the pull-up it's about the the journey to it like believing you know that she's like no way i'm gonna ever get a pull-up i'm like no no we're

gonna work every step of the way you know and just she's halfway there and now she can pull like bend you know hang and bend just like like a quarter of the way and she was like mind blown that she's even made that progress you know and so it's more like how can we relate this and that's how I teach my drills like it's not about the handstand it's about like if I apply small small steps to anything I want to do in life, then it's doable and it's not overwhelming. And like, that's how I approach all my drills too. There's the, I'm going to take this a little bit of a different direction here, but bear with me here. There's this book called Siddhartha. It was written by a guy named Herman Hesse and it's the story of,

you could say it's a story of the Buddha. And one of the things Hesse says, the in there Siddhartha says is he says I can breathe and I can meditate and I can fast and breathing we know what breathing in and meditation is just a awareness just just being aware whether it's being aware of your thoughts or being aware of the outside but it's like not on autopilot it's almost almost, it's basically being still right. Like the way that the bug stays still. And then, um, and then of course, fasting is, uh, the, um, uh, watching your need for, uh, consumption of food and realizing maybe you don't need food, just watching it. And when, when I was a kid, I'm going back to the parenting thing. When I was a kid, my, and almost my entire identity was fabricated, meaning I was given the name Savan. I was told I was Armenian. My parents – I was the kid who always had money in his pocket and could buy video games for the other kids.

And I don't say that in a derogatory way, but I didn't earn anything that was my identity. I didn't really earn anything. And then when I was 20 and I was on ecstasy in my backyard one time in college, I had a friend who was way into bodybuilding. He was on steroids and always on meth and just crazy, wound up dude. And he was doing a pull-up. We're in the backyard high on drugs. And I'm like, oh, I've always wanted to do a pull-up. And he said, uh, it's not a pull-up. That's a, that's a, you know, misnomer. It's a contraction of the back. I'm like the contraction of the back. And he goes, go ahead and hang from that branch. And I was probably 20 pounds lighter than I

normally was. Cause I was high on so many drugs for like a month and he squeezed my lats and he said, flex that muscle. And I was high. I was on Molly on flex that muscle and i was high i was on molly on ecstasy and i was able to just go in there and contract that and when i contracted that muscle my my whole body moved up into the into the air while he squeezed my lats yeah going back to kids when i took my obby to do jujitsu he refused to go on the mat he refused to do jujitsu for the first three months, three days a week. It's a 30-minute drive there and an hour back in traffic. And I took him three days a week for three months before he would do it.

And I would say, hey, you don't have to do it, but you have to sit on the mat. And his response to me was like, I don't want to touch strangers. And I would say to him, you know what? Great fucking job. I don't want to touch strangers either. I don't know how you're going to get over that because I don't want to touch strangers either but you got to sit on the map after three months his instructor comes up to him and goes hey did you know batman does jujitsu and he's like no shit so since then he's been doing jujitsu in the martial arts five to seven days a week for the

last three or four years my son has an eye and then he gets belts and stuff right and he goes to tournaments and he has to win and lose against other kids and now my son has an – and then he gets belts and stuff, right? And he goes to tournaments and he has to win and lose against other kids. And now my son has an identity that I didn't get that's based in his physicality and not some made-up bullshit. I'm Armenian. I'm fucking white. My dad's a podcaster. Like it's not – it's something in his – it's something he has. It's like a woman who could make a basket.

All of a sudden, like you have value. You can make a fucking basket. You have value. You can defend yourself. And so I keep my kids – I'm kind of – I'm going back to the hovering thing, but this identity thing, but this thing that you said also about a goal is having to pull up. Your whole – these are real things like you shouldn't be choosing your identity you should be fucking earning it can you make a good peanut butter and jelly sandwich well then you've earned that but the more things i think that you

can do and that's why sid hearth and the buddha was so amazing because his identity was in like some really rudimentary things i can breathe most Most people have given up that. They're on autopilot, right? But you're rooted in your teaching now in something that's so deep, putting people upside down, going into themselves at this. They think they're doing gymnastics. They think they're doing CrossFit. But really they're having a, in my mind, what I see and I believe is very true, a spiritual progression because they're becoming more, they're putting that energy inward. Does any of that kind of, I know that's kind of a big kind of canvas, but does any of that resonate with you?

It does, very much so yes and i think um the the reason i was able to become a collegiate gymnast and then um start two businesses i had a promotional apparel business for a decade before i started performance plus what was that what was that the promotional apparel business what was that? I self-taught myself graphic design on Adobe Illustrator. And I did like, you know, stuff like this, like business stuff on and then on apparel. So I, I had never done a purchase order invoice, nothing like, you know, all this was so new to me. And the reason I feel like I was able to start these businesses and believe in myself is because I went through all those experiences as a gymnast at a very young age. And I, I so many times came home with bloody hands,

my feet, I would ache like in bed, I will never forget that as a child because I've been pounding on them from tumbling and the beam and like, oh, my God, like flipping backwards on a four inch beam. And like just knowing like you got to self-talk yourself into like, fuck, yeah, I got this. Like, you know, and you can't you can't waver. And I think that, yes, it, yes, I was a gymnast, but the ultimate thing was it taught me, um, to believe in myself that I'm going to fail. I'm going to suck. And then I'm going to learn from it. And then I'm going to continue on that journey. And that is why, like I said, that pull up, you know, that I teach that woman who lost 70 pounds is more than a pull-up. So I really do believe it's much more of like, it's much deeper and you're rooted into your life than the actual skill, you know.

She completed the impossible. Yes. Yeah, for compete. She completed the impossible. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Greg Glassman has said that to me a lot. He says he used to say to me once a year and now he's been saying it to me like once a month. He says to me what you just said. He says, I, I took more from gymnastics than any human being alive. But he didn't. But he's kind of being, um, sly saying that cause he didn't win the gold medal. He didn't get a college scholarship, but, but he describes it the same way you did so brutally hard and just fucked up and the injuries and the, that he's like, man, I just took so much away from it. Yep. And you know what, like gymnastics is it's an individual sport until you really get to college.

But even as an individual sport, I was there like with rips on my hands, with my teammates, even growing up. And we were there just like, all right, I know this hurts, but here's here's how I got through it. Or here's my, you know, extra hand stuff to fix your grit. Like we were there for each other, you know, or like, um, if a coach yelled at you, you're like, you know, we giggled about it. Like we, we shared that experience and that, that also really helped me, um, even though it was an individual sport, just be more compassionate to other people as well, too, going through stuff. If you would have looked at your life 20 years ago, would you have ever thought that you'd be doing what you're doing now?

Never. Ever, ever, ever. I never imagine. I wake up pinching myself. pinching myself and and that's i'm not like i'm not exaggerating that how the heck did i get here and i'm able to support myself and my kids through college to do something i love and if you were to if you were to be like oh you're gonna make money teaching people pull ups and handstands. I'd be like, that's the biggest fucking joke ever, you know? Right.

Right. And, and I'm like, how, how did I do this? And I think I, when I answer that, I think it's because I care a lot about people.

And I, I am definitely one of those people who like feel other people's emotions and feelings and like and I am super passionate about my athlete walking out of my garage feeling a little bit more confident about themselves you know and I'm not I say to them like listen if you're not close to skill I'm not gonna be like you're almost there to skill, I'm not going to be like, you're almost there. I'll be like, no, let's work on this. You've improved this. You know, and I did that as a teacher, too. It was always like, okay, one thing you're doing well and two things we're going to work on.

You know, because you lose your credibility if you're always like, fantastic, that was great, that was perfect. What is perfect? There's no perfect, you know. perfect what is perfect there's no perfect you know um so i do i i i still honestly cannot believe that this is what i get to do i i just feel really lucky i do when you say you care what um could you help me with that what that word means a c-a-r-e care yeah um did i spell that right yeah good it's like my jersey accent coming out well i'm just not a good speller i just want to make sure i didn't make a fool of myself uh steven flores the best coaches are the ones who don't do it for the money but for the pure joy of our athletes um yeah what what do you what do you even give me an example or what do you mean by care

okay wait before care i want to i want to address like that what okay money money yeah so zach my business partner dr zach long he's um at the barbell physio is his instagram he lives in charlotte and i um he's a doctor pt and and a friend connected me to him when I was training for the games. And he was like, hey, you know, we started talking. He's like, what do you think? There's nothing out there that would connect gymnastics skills and PT together because you have to be mobile to do handstands and you can't have hurt hips to do pistols and all this and he's like would you be interested in putting some stuff out there and I'm like yes and I remember our first meeting of performance plus

and we sat down and we're like listen if we can just help five people a month, maybe we make $500 each, right? That's like Pishka money, right? Like we're helping five people. Are you Jewish? Yeah. What's Pishka mean? Is that something?

Is that Yiddish or Hebrew? I think it's Yiddish. I don't know. Oh, look at you, Pishka. I just knew as soon as I heard that, Pishka. I think it means just like little, you know, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.

I like that. Yeah. Only Jews can get away with that. Armenians do that too. Pishka. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like my dad grew up, my dad grew up like in his house speaking Yiddish because he lived with his grandparents.

Wow. In the United States? Yep. Yep. In Boston. Was your husband jewish uh he was um he was uh part jewish how's that uh were your parents disappointed that you married him um no no they liked no we we did raise our kids jewish but i actually i am not religious at all

like okay i am jewish of birth um Like I am Jewish of birth, but I am more a, I'm very, I'm more spiritual than anything. I'm not religious. Okay. We'll come back to that. Sorry.

I got to start. Okay. So $500 a month. My keyboard stopped working. Sorry. I had a temper tantrum. Sorry. No problem.

And like Zach was, he has a clinic. I was working for CrossFit headquarters and had my promotional apparel business. We were not doing this to build a business that we were doing this. Like we have knowledge and we want to share it. Like, why would we keep this to ourselves? You know? And, and so we didn't ever think this would become a full-time business, you know? And I remember like. What year? What year year what year pamela uh palmada palmada

um 2016 okay and maybe about two years three years later he's like um i think we need to treat this as a real business. Like we had nothing we had, like, we didn't even have like, an accountant, we were doing the, you know, stuff ourself, like, maybe we should hire someone to help us with like the IT. I mean, it wasn't about the business. And so I wanted to say that is very true. I do feel like a lot of people start like, all right, I got to make, you know, six I do feel like a lot of people start like, all right, I got to make,

you know, six figures year one, or it's not successful. No, just like put your knowledge out there and see like what it attracts, you know? Um, okay.

But back to care. Yeah. Yeah. But you have to make, is it, did you do a lot of stuff for free in the beginning? Oh yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. I have these people around me who are only interested in money, and I'm only interested in money, but I always do everything for free. And I can't really figure out how to explain to them that, like, I'm never focused on the money.

None of those sponsors came because I approached them and asked them for money. Yeah. I don't know how but i really like money and you need the money and you have to know your value it's so tricky right we'll come back to that okay care it is tricky it is yeah let's come back to that because i gotta yeah i'm gonna say about that um this is also my brain like 400 thoughts and i touch upon each one and i'm like oh shoot we gotta go back to this one um okay so care just um i genuinely i'm a empath to the nth degree and i think that it's um i love that about myself it also has gotten me into um a little bit of, I guess, you know, an empath can be, maybe, maybe like, I'm not saying use, but I can be taken advantage of because I just want the better for somebody else. And I put my needs probably last and I've done a lot of therapy in

the last six, seven years on that. And I feel like I'm definitely improving a huge amount. But care is... Like with the therapist? Like where you sit in a chair and they're like, hello, Pamela. Pamela. I'm going to turn them... I'm starting the egg timer.

You have an hour. Tell me. Yeah. Like that? You did that kind of therapy for seven years? I've had a lot. I've had probably four therapists over the last seven years. Um, I've had a lot of, I've had probably fought for therapists over the last seven years for five. Um, yeah, it's, to me, it's about mindfulness,

like shifting my mindset of like, you can be an empath and also set boundaries and you can be in a beautiful home with a roof over your head and also be sad. And like, I didn't really ever realize that these dichotomies could exist together. And so it's more learning how to reframe my thinking. And yes, some I sat on a couch, but some it was like, you know, through a Zoom, you know, I've had some therapists that live in Montana and she's she's not a clinical therapist. She's a mind coach, you know, and that to me is therapy, too. is the empathic side of me, that I really genuinely, if you are coming to me in my life,

feel that I want to leave, I want you to leave feeling better about yourself, that I've been able to put something positive into your life. And I always tell my kids, like, for me, put something positive into your life. And I always tell my kids, like, for me, I want to live my life where when I pass away, what am I leaving behind as somebody would say, like, what would someone say about me? How would they describe me? And to me, that, like, she loved hard. She cared. She was knowledgeable. She failed. and then she came back stronger and was there for her children in any way possible. So for me, it's what legacy am I leaving behind and what what lessons can I leave somebody?

And I take that from my grandparents. You know, I think that that's who they were too. And they break, like my grandfather, he was a sales, you know, he was in sales. And gosh, he didn't meet one person he didn't love and leave a smile and treated the garbage man as more as just as respectful as the ceo of you know costco you know yeah um joe westerlin says uh pami uh pami's wonderful in my two years writing crossfit trainings ig page i regularly featured her content it's always good it is always good thank you that means a lot it really does i said you know him do you know joe westerlin i don't i don't know what i don't think i do and if i do i'm sorry joe i'm really bad at names

he's amazing he's an amazing he's probably uh greg glassman told me he's one of the best best five trainers ever to walk planet earth amazing guy yeah i met him i don't know when i first started crossfit he was a strength and conditioning coach at some big school in Omaha or Nebraska or something like that. But, but yeah, anyway, I, I, I'm not sure. Do you know, do you remember Libby DiBiase from like the 2000? Wherever you're going, you better believe American Express will be right there with you. Heading for adventure? We'll help you breeze through security.

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Let us help you plan every detail with professionalism and compassion. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca. Eight CrossFit games? Does that, no? No, I started CrossFit in 2010. Okay. Mm-Fit in 2010. Okay. Mm-hmm. 2010.

Yeah. Like, right, maybe like September of 2010, and then the first Open was like that January, February. You, your job is, is that your, so you have two jobs, with Mayhem and performance plus yes and but you live in where did you get say again north carolina yeah i'm in charlotte for the last 23 years probably ever ever been tempted to move to cookville um it's funny i've i've like always looked at like you know little like fixer uppers to just get a place when I go.

Because I go about every, probably every eight weeks, I'll go up there, whether I'm filming or working with Train with Rich or during the games. I went up to work with some athletes as well, too, right before the games. Is it drive or fly for you? It's a five-hour drive west straight west and it's beautiful it's through the mountains of ashville and i love it i love to drive what do you drive what do i drive i this is so funny so i just got a subaru um cross trek and it took me a long time to buy a Subaru because I was like I'm so not like

um tree like you know Subaru has this like Vermont like feel you know and I'm like I don't really think that's me like I thought I love this car it's amazing um I mean they sell a lot of them for a reason it's like it's like McDonald's hamburgers but you could poo-poo them but dude like they sold a billion or two billion like something's not something's right with them okay yeah and are you a good driver i think i'm a very good driver i am a safely um aggressive driver so okay okay if you were just gonna stay safe i was gonna be like oh you suck i'm just gonna tell you but you're aggressive aggressive drivers are good drivers okay i learned i learned i've got my license i grew

up right outside of boston so you can imagine you can parallel park pretty good oh the bomb i okay okay oh yeah all right i i could get probably an award for my parallel parking i'm just saying so four years at ruckers um university i live like on this busy street and i would i would fit my car i would put practical bumper cars. I'm like, I'm getting in that spot because it was very hard to find parking. So people would be impressed. You've had people be like, damn, Pamela, you, you got in that spot. Yep. Yep. Very good driver. Yeah. You too. You too. Good parallel Parker.

Dude, that I will be like, I just look for a spot that someone in the car will be like, you won't fit there. I'm like, uh-huh. I love that. Game on. Do you drive a big car though because of all your kids no van no i drive a small minivan it's it's tiny it's it's you could stick it in anywhere it's okay someone clipped that you can stick it in anywhere do you do you like the minivan are you i love it i wanted one before i had kids and my wife was like, are you? And my wife's like, except anything.

But I couldn't even believe it. When I mentioned minivan, she's like, are you crazy? I'm like, no, I could put so much camera gear in there. It would be like how maybe you might like it too. Because like you have just gymnastic shit you want to haul around. And I love bringing just camera gear around. Bags of just full of shit. Tripods and lenses.

I'm like, no, dude, a van's a dream car. That's awesome. That's awesome. I had trouble with my minivan. I have to admit, cause I was a young mom and I felt really like, I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to like, not be like hip or, you know, like, I mean, I'm 49, right. I still like flip around. Like I, I like to stay mindfully young, you know? And I was like, the minivan it's sending me into the next like quantum leap of like life. No, no, no, no, no. You know, I'm not ready. Yeah. But my minivan I had for like five years and I gotta say having kids, it was phenomenal, but I did get rid of it.

And mine's so dirty. Was yours dirty? mine's so dirty was yours dirty mine's so dirty excessively clean with my cars oh yeah mine's so dirty would you let your kids eat in there oh yeah but i vacuum like every single time i pulled up like i had a wow i had a dust buster right in my garage and i'd run the dust buster i really so let me tell you about my car, my closet, my home. I like to come into or go into my car, go into like put my clothes away and feel just calmness. I need that in my life because I can get very high strung, you know. And so I need calm in my life. And I need people in my life to settle me down too

um and so that is why i keep things really clean and neat i also find it therapeutic of cleaning yeah my wife does too yeah it's crazy yeah i'll do i love doing the wash and she likes folding it's like we're a match made in heaven. Like you really like folding? She goes, yeah, it just gives me peace. I'm like, wow. My boys, like when we were packing for college and stuff, you know, they kind of try and fold their clothes and I'm like, then they give me some t-shirts and I fold it and it'd be like super, super smooth. And they're like, how do you do that?

Like, what is wrong with me? Why can't I be such a good folder i was like practice son practice it'll be it'll come it'll come the art of folding um i i uh did not think this is going to be part of our conversation today i sometimes i think about what would happen if my wife left me or if she died. And I think, um, I would, I would be just become a monk.

Like I have no interest in like, I would have no interest reengaging with another human on the level that I've engaged with her. I'm not like, it wouldn't be like out of respect for her or anything like that. I just, I'm just, I wouldn't,

I just can't have fucking imagine in a million years um re-engaging do you do you plan on re-engaging with someone on that level yeah so i'm gonna i'm gonna challenge you on that okay okay okay yeah yeah it's easy for me to say i'm not in that position but my my parents were married 49 years when my mom passed away of brain cancer. And she was the love of my dad's life. And the pillar, really, of our family. really of our family. And my dad said, until you're in my shoes, you will never know what it feels like to have lost somebody who you love so much. But I can't stop my life. I have to go travel. I have to feel loved again, you know? And he said, people judge me. People say, Oh, it's too soon. Or you didn't grieve enough. And he's like, fuck that you aren't here

every single day in my shoes, in my life, in my mind and heart, you know, and because you move forward, doesn't, doesn't take away the experiences and love you had for anybody in your life, um, for him. And for me, my dad and I have shared a lot the last few years, we've become even closer. And he's how long ago did you see your mom passed? Six years, six years, this month, actually, Or August. Six years, August. So we all go to the cemetery together every year. My sister and my, we all live like within five minutes of each other now. My parents moved down here before my mom got sick. But we, you know, we go to the cemetery. My dad says Kaddish and my sister and I just sit there. More Jewish stuff? Kaddish? Pishke? Kaddish? Okay, Kaddish. My keyboard stopped working. It's crazy. So I can't look up these words. I'll look them up later stuff kaddish pishka kaddish okay my keyboard stopped working so it's crazy so

i can't look up these words i'll write look them up later kaddish is a kaddish is a prayer you do once a year for um those who pass and okay if you read the english transliteration of it it's just basically brings them close to your heart and so for me i'm not not religious. I feel that when I remember things or talk about my mom, it brings me closer to her in my heart and my memories. And so for me, that's my religion, right? How I bring those thoughts into my own soul, you know? Okay. my own soul, you know? Um, so when, um, so my dad and I've shared a lot of loss and experiences because, um, while like, um, you know, very close to my children's father, it's still a loss, right? You're married 21 years. And so, um, but it doesn't take away the experiences, the great experiences I had with him that, yes, I'm a lover.

Like, I am a, I am meant to be with somebody to share experiences with. I just know that's who I am. And I will take the time to make sure I find the person that brings care, compassion, vulnerability, fun, laughter. I love playing like I'm playful. Um, and that takes time, but I, I don't want to be alone can I be alone yeah I've spent a lot of fucking time alone in the last two years and it's painful and it's growth and it's important but I love what my dad and mom had and my dad now has an amazing wonderful woman in his life he'll neverarry, but he's able to share experiences with somebody. And I love that. I would never want him to sit home alone or have

to travel alone. Um, if he didn't want to, there are people that love that, that are the lone wolf that, that enjoy their own company so much that they don't need to share experiences. But I challenge somebody, until you are in that situation, you don't know how it's going to feel or what you'll need, you know? Fair, totally fair. Totally fair.

You can't possibly, yeah. Yeah, I can't imagine losing her. I can't imagine. I hope never have to. Yeah. I mean. I mean, even I would tolerate just so much before I lost her. I mean, but once again, like easy, easy to say. Easy to say. Part of it is superficial. It's just like I've just put in so much work. It's like these people, let's say you're in a relationship for 10 years with a friend and they do something to piss you off, right?

Like they steal from you or they, I don't know, they slept with your husband or something. And then these people are so quick to throw the relationship away. I'm like, dude, let's do the math here a second. They stole $1,000 from you. You have 10 years into the relationship. It's 10 cents a day, dude. I'm not throwing that. I'm not throwing that.

I'm having a talk with them. I'm not throwing it away. I'm not like, I'm not throwing it away. I'm going to like, but I also value relationships a shitload, even the ones that go sideways because I want – I don't – there's this conventional wisdom of like if someone does you bad, make space from them or whatever. I still want to – I want to be able to – the people who have done the worst things to me, I still want to, or that I've done the worst things to, I'd like to still see how our story plays out. I don't want to run from it. I don't want to. I'm very much like you.

Yeah. I'm not interested in running away. And I want to hold a grudge against anyone pretty much no matter what. That is me to a T. Unless it has to do with my kids, then, then it's a go nuclear. I think to the people in my life even the ones that um i thought were um capable of meeting me here right in the middle and and maybe never were able to show up in that way. They've gifted me a lot. And I don't, I don't, I don't get, I'm not an angry person.

I'm not, I'm rarely ever angry. I get more like, it's okay that they gave me all they had and that's okay. It didn't, it, it, it gifted me something else right right right yeah once you go get pants you ended up with the shirt you're not pissed off you can appreciate a shirt yes such a good analogy yeah yeah yeah yeah but hey you got to be pretty present you got to be pretty present for that shit most people that's like three. Most people, that's like three-year-old, that's like three-year-old shit that people never get past, right? You think you're going to get a chocolate ice cream cone, you get vanilla and you throw a temper tantrum. You're like, dude, like in three seconds, you're going to taste that vanilla cone and forget that you ever wanted chocolate. Like what? But three-year-old can't get

past that. Yeah. It takes a lot of inward, like insight and work. And like, I know, I've done, you know, I know my shortcomings, and nobody's gonna have everything, right. But like, I also Okay, so like, there's always two people in a friendship relationship, right? Even parent-child. And you each have to own your part in it. You know? Like, to my kids, sometimes I get short, right? We're human. And I don't like that about myself. I don't like when my kids do something and I'm like, oh, okay.

You know, I get really short. And I will sit them down, like, you know, I get really short and I will sit them down like, you know, I'll wait a little bit and I'll, and we'll, we'll talk about it. I'll be like, Hey, that's on me. I got short because I didn't stop to breathe and think, and I apologize for that, you know? And I think that's why my kids come to me literally for anything and everything i mean we there is not one topic that they cannot come to me or have come to me that i would ever judge not listen um and also hopefully have good advice because i've lived 49 years and they've only lived 20 you know um but yeah in relationships in every type of relationship, um, there's two people, you know, there's two, there's two people contributing. And if you can own your side of it, gosh, what growth and gift that is to somebody else.

uh can you phrase give me can you phrase that differently or give an example because i think i know what that means yeah so like um i don't know just in general right like divorce a lot is looked as like oh you failed right um and that was a really hard thing for me to say no I owned up that how why we didn't work together you know as two people and I learned from it I didn't fail at it I actually learned from it. And, you know, I think that I looked at it more as like, I gifted that to myself more than it was a punishment. Gifted what? Gifted the knowledge of my part in who I am. And learning about like, okay, how can I do better at this? Looking inward, right? Looking at like all the things I needed to just be honest with myself about, you know, like I can't fix somebody. I can't love you enough to make you happy.

I can support you and be by your side, but that's your journey, you know? Yeah. Somewhere along the way early in my relationship with my wife, we understood explicitly and implicitly to each other that at the end of the day, we're each responsible for our own happiness. And thank God, like, none of us do crazy shit you know what i mean like i don't hit her she's not a drug addict i mean like we don't have like these and i i can't be like whoops she's doing heroin in the kitchen with the kids but like i'm still responsible for my happiness it's not you know there's yes has to be some uh um a healthy boundary of health yeah healthy boundary but like yeah you can't be

um you can't be in fighting they call it faints you know like when when like you're in a relationship with someone and they give you moods and you keep reacting to the moods and it leads to the same like fights you have over and over and at one point you have to be like hey that person might be doing that but i can i can stop and change my reaction to it to maybe change how this plays out. You know, I mean, each person's like kind of trying to help the other person by not even if I'm even if she's right every single time that I'm over the top. But like I come home and I see shoes in the entryway and I start kicking them and throwing a temper tantrum. Even if she knows that's totally inappropriate she can be like okay i'm gonna like change my instead of telling him to stop getting angry i'm gonna change my response and

like go in and hug him like even if it's you were you work you're trying to change the the goal isn't to win the goal is is to like get through it make it so we're not playing this running our heads into that same wall over and over and over change our story together a little bit right yep yeah i think that's how i was interpreting what you said when you said um how did you phrase it um i interpreted basically every every person is responsible for their own happiness but yeah okay so i'm understanding you yeah you are understanding like i will like teammates right you want to be a teammate in life like oh i got you you're you're having trouble with that play like blaming someone else is like the last thing you want to do it's like fucking last resort

yeah like fuck you you have to quit doing heroin in the kitchen like now you're blaming them but it's like you've reached your limit i just can't i can't i can't get past that yeah exactly exactly yeah humans are interesting it's just i think as i get older and meet different people from different walks of life like you know moving from the north to the south very different environment i've just embraced like everybody's like, just like listening, like traveling to I'm, you know, I've traveled out of the country quite a bit. And just, it just brings you more awareness of like, I think it brings you more love and compassion for different people, the more you learn how different everybody is, you know, instead of like judging and yeah, just like listen and learn. learn like that's my best advice for

anything like in the gym for my kids just like go in without trying to mold it the way you want it just go in and see just listen learn from it i when i first i don't think it was around 2010 or 11 or something but when i first started having the opportunity to film with rich or hang out with rich at the games there would be these times where like you know him and like three other guys even at the games they'd be like hey let's pray before we go out on the floor and they'd be like seven come here and i would pray with them but i didn't pray i'm not a christian i't. But I really enjoyed being included in the in that. Do they what? Say that again? Oh, no, I didn't. I didn't say anything. I said, yeah.

Oh, but you're saying you're not religious, but you hang out with all these religious people. Do you enjoy that? So I enjoy hanging. I'm not religious either, but I fucking enjoy religious people for some reason. I think it's great. Yeah, I think I have learned so much being in the South and just listening to, you know, other people, what what helps other people fuel them. helps other people fuel them and just because it doesn't fuel me like i think like they might say god and i might say universe right um i might say like my mindfulness and they might say my prayer it's just honestly to me it's just another word for what we're all trying to do and that's just find peace and happiness and and we do like we do they do pray and they have uh you know biblical music or religious music playing the whole weekend and i'm probably the only jewish person that's ever like worked there oh yeah my

wife's been there a few times she's jewish but but she didn't work there. You're right. Yeah. And and they love me and welcome me with open arms and don't judge me. And like that's that's what that's what I love. I feel like family no matter what. You know why? Because we're good people. They're good people. They care. They want they want they want the best for you and the those are the people i love i don't you can pray to buddha you can pray to the universe you can whatever you whatever fuels you i respect that it doesn't mean i have to do it you know what i have to do i have to like be a really good fucking human too that's my job you said uh that in a podcast i listened to or an interview i listened to that the more flexible you are the less likely

you are to have injury and i don't care whether that's true or not i believe you like 100 like i get it like you sit on the back of an elephant and you can't get your legs around it. You know, like we've seen people do. You're fucked. And people are like, well, what if you're too stretchy? What if you're too stretchy? Shut the fuck up like that. You're quiet.

You're not part of go somewhere else. I'm not worried about those people. And I am a too stretchy person. I did injure myself because I'm too flexible. So but but I but I believe what you said. What is the most change you've ever seen in someone? So very calm kid. Chill, pleasant. Well behaved, but his body is wound up so tight. His back is so tight and his brothers can do it all splits and and put their wrap their legs around their head and they can do it all. Anything could their contortionists, but their brother is so tight and he stretches every night. By 15 minutes every night and i don't see him getting any more limber he walks around like

this you know what i mean just all it's crazy what does he have any hope like could he he wants to do the split so bad he can't even do like i'm more limber than him everyone's more limber than him does he have any hope he does have hope and you are describing my oldest and youngest to at my oh my kids are like gumby i'm serious like i could take one's head and shove it up his ass he'd be like yeah but perfect i mean it's crazy my oldest is the tightest human I've ever met. And my youngest is like me, like Gumby, right? So my oldest is really into CrossFit. Um, he's probably about four years in. And when he first started the tight one, that's the tight one. That's the tight one. Yeah. My tight one is physically just, he wants to do it all. He's ready to deadlift a thousand pounds. Yeah. he wants to do it all he's ready to deadlift a thousand pounds yeah yep okay so when he first started he could not overhead squat at all like at all right and and he is definitely of my dna

where it's like once he gets into something he's like i'm gonna work hard at it and he was so frustrated that he was so tight and his back at like 18 was hurting and he's like yeah and he's like it's my hamstrings and everything and he went to go see my um business partner dr zach long for you know some pt and zach was like bro you've got to work on this shit you know and he every day that he crossfit stays after 15 minutes and does all the stretches that he's given. And guess what? That kid's overhead squatting now, like probably like 115, 125 easy. Probably more.

He's probably like, Mom, it's more than that. But it does happen. Here's the thing He started like at 0% Where most people Might start at 40% Of their limberness So it's going to take Harris a lifetime journey My oldest

It'll be a lifetime journey for him Do you ever do the splits you think? So What do you have to do? Do you have to tear something? Joking not joking you know what i mean like do you have to like you do you have to stretch the ligaments and tendons so gently but so but yes like i don't know the anatomy of it but growing up we had like our coaches like literally we would be our feet on a mat and then our coaches pressing us down um to hyper like over splits is what they call it and i'm sure it it was you know tearing fibers to loosen your yourself um will harris ever get a split no because that's not

his goal has he gotten more limber yes so i would never say there's nothing achievable i'm just gonna say don't put a timeline on it like i get people texting me like hey um how long will it take me if i do your first pull program to get my first strip pull up i'm like i can't put a timeline on it it depends one where you're where are you starting from are you starting from zero percent are you starting from are you starting from zero percent are you starting from 40 and how much effort are you putting in into the program every day you know so i don't like to put timelines on things i like to say yeah work towards it see where you go like i'm working on um this gymnastics skill called a mana it's basically a v-sit but you

turn your back parallel to the ground i'd pull it up but my keyboard stopped working i'm very sorry oh i'm completely neutered no it's terrible i'm half the man i used to be when the show started i was a complete man you were you were see what i do to um so this mana skill um you know may be unachievable fully to me but what if i went into training and be like i'm never gonna get it what like what then what's the purpose of me training it you know so yeah i train it i train it I don't know. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't. But like my ultimate goal isn't the final skill. My ultimate goal is getting closer. If I get the skill, fuck great, you know? Okay, I hear you.

Is this it right here? Yes. Okay. Wow, my keyboard started working again after banging on it so much. Nice. Okay. Isn't that a beautiful skill? Yeah.

I can swing into it i have a picture i think on my instagram somewhere of me um i can so i was on p bars and i swung into it and i like had a photographer there and she uh she took a picture of it i don't know it might be on one of the um it's probably close up yep right there that that mana training yeah if you if you click on that that was me just this or this nope go to the to the right oh sorry where it says mana training yeah so this is these are the drills that i do to open my shoulder angle up and then hold on wait this one is an assisted mana. Isn't that? Yeah, it's crazy. How tall are you?

I'm five, two and a half. Oh yeah. And how much do you weigh? Um, I tear between like one 20 and one 25. Oh, wow.

Good. When I was training for the games, I was like one 30. I was, I was close to one 30. I was like 130. I was close to 130. Do you like being lighter or heavier? No, this is my natural body type. I like being lighter.

I like being really light too. I don't understand. You know what's interesting? My friend Andrew Hiller got on steroids, and he really wanted to get big and strong, and now he's been off. Now he wants to see what it's like. He's trying to figure out what – he's trying to experiment on himself so he can look at people and be like

okay these people were on steroids this is what they look like and then this is what they look like when they're cycling off so like he could judge people more yeah he's good at that he's good at that yeah and basically what he told me which was kind of incredible is he really is enjoying being smaller he thought he was going to enjoy being bigger he didn't enjoy it and and recently i just talked to a guy um who's like a professional bodybuilder and he says it basically fucking sucks he says he's lost all his athleticism i mean this guy's massive he's 250 and just shredded like he's on all the crazy steroids like the ones that make you paranoid and freak out and shit but basically these people are like everyone i think everyone feels better when they're, I mean, you are so fucking lean.

It's crazy. You are, are you a petite human? I'm a petite human. Yeah. But you're also, that's thick for a petite human, 120. Like that's a powerful, that's a lot of, another woman who is petite, who is five foot would be five, two might be 105 pounds. You have like 15 pounds of still muscle on you that a normal human doesn't have. I never want to feel like weak. Like I love, I love feeling strong. I think mentally and physically.

So like, um, I love help, but I also love like knowing I can, I got this, like, you know, if I'm going gravel biking and I need to like, you know, pick my bike up and travel like over the ravine. And then I got my backpack and like, I got this. And then if like somebody wants to help me great, but I don't want to have to ever feel weak, weak um in physicality because to me that's mental weakness in my mind for me for me yeah i i agree i think it i think it does lead to mental but here's like a great example crazy strong uh controlled powerful explosive and yet still like able to get in all the weird positions thanks yeah that was last month uh with my amazing friend from bar media i love him he's the he's the shit as they say yeah that's good

that's filmmakers want to be called that that's a good compliment um but yeah so my body type like if you looked at me growing up like as a gymnast and stuff it is muscular but lean um but for now like okay when i was competing at the games like you hardly do you not eat you don't eat very much right i don't that's so funny that i love that picture of me as a kid um in the split it's so 80s right yeah it's so awesome I don't eat a lot I bet you my wife has that same picture Little Jewish girl Was she a gymnast

She was an ice skater Oh She ice skated like hardcore until she was 12 And her body still like carries all of that Like from her Like from her basically Ass down it's just ice skater muscles the ass the calves the quads the hamstrings it's crazy never went away i love that i love that my dream as a kid

was to be an ice skater actually yeah but my mom was like ice time's like 4 a.m pop that she was not a morning person um so yeah but when i was training for the games um i you have to lift heavy a lot and people are like oh lifting heavy will make you bulky it's not lifting heavy will make you bulky when you lift you burn a lot of calories so you're hungrier so i ate a lot more because i was training two and a half hours a day and lifting a lot of weight but I would have not been able to make the games if I couldn't lift that weight and I was also still able to do the gymnastics stuff too but like now I want to be strong but I don't need to be like maxing out is not the games. Um, you said you're 49. Yeah. What, any, any, any milestones like that you could share with us? Like for me, when up until I was about 37, I didn't have to warm up. And then

at 37, I realized I got it. I got a motorcyclist by my backyard. Yeah, go ahead. Around 37, I notice I'm like, if I want to do what I used to do when I was 25, at 37, I have to have a whole pre-workout. I have to be completely drenched. And now at 51, it's like the difference between me, if I have to go down into a skate park, into a big bowl, like a 10-foot bowl, if I'm not warmed up and I do that, I move just like an old man.

You're like all panicky and shit. Like, you know what I mean? It's just like, but then when I'm warmed up, it goes away. And it's really just because when I'm warmed up, I'm okay if I fall. Like I would just roll. It doesn't even matter. I'm not even thinking about it. I don't even care.

Do you have any like ages where you think, okay, this happened, this happened, just some rough. So I have this reputation at my gym that I walk in, do two leg swings and I'm like, let's fucking go. You know? Yeah. And, um, I'm probably cause you're so lean too. You can probably push that away. I could probably, I'm a hundred. I wait, walk around wait walk around at 160 165 but i could be 135 pound man like i could literally probably live i probably shouldn't say it's that loud it's gonna freak people i could probably live on 1100 calories a day and i probably eat 3500 you know what i mean so it's like i bet you that's why you can still do that because you eat so little. Yeah. What do you think? You would think I would warm up a lot more. Also, what's crazy is my background as a gymnast, we spent like a half hour, the first like 30, 40 minutes of a three-hour practice every day warming up and conditioning.

And then we'd stretch at the end, we'd usually do that at the end, but, um, and condition again, but like, we didn't just jump on and start like tricks and routines, you know, skills. Um, so you'd think I'd be a lot better at warming up, but, um, if it's not written down, I'm not doing it. So, so I, I need somebody to tell me what to do and I think that's a little bit of my background of a gymnast too like when you're when you are you know grow up as a gymnast you walk into the gym and everything is laid out for you you have you don't have to think at all you are told how many sets how many reps what conditioning and you just work you're like a workhorse you know and so for me um if i if i don't go in and i follow exactly what's on the board that has the warm-up that has all this um then i just am like all right let's just do the workout you know so you feel like how you did when

you were 40 you're not aging because you have no inflammation you don't eat i do eat i do eat i eat very very clean but i do eat ice cream and lenny and larry's cookies are like my fucking favorite and sorry i i swear a lot that's okay i gotta i gotta tone that down i've been trying not i normally swear more but you're on here i feel like you you have a certain air about you that makes me not want to swear around you oh thanks um i do it's a it's terrible it's a terrible habit um okay so i do eat but very clean um small portions your small portion you eat small portions i eat all day small portions to every two every two three hours but like i eat a lot of egg whites on like rye bread or rice or like mix it with oatmeal. Um, I eat very

little fat. I don't do well with fat. So, um, I eat very little of it. So protein and carbs, protein and carbs, my fat, I get like, I'll put butter on the pan. Um, but I don't eat, I like, I don't like cheese, like cheese is just tears me up. Um, I don't eat i like i don't like she like cheese is just tears me up um i don't eat avocado because i don't need i don't know i just do better on a like very low fat diet hey do you think your your eyes say something about you yes i i think it's i think a lot of people's eyes tell me a lot about them what do you what do your eyes tell you about you yes i i think it's i think a lot of people's eyes tell me a lot about them what do your what do your eyes tell you about you um for me when i don't you don't have to be humble at all just i just want to hear it just what do your eyes tell you about you like when

you see your eyes you're like oh yep um i see depth my eyes, my Brown eyes are almost like clear, clear Brown. So when I look in the mirror, I see like the depth of me as a human. How about just the superficial, the, the, the shape of them and how big they are.

Yeah. Did they tell you anything? Oh no, I've never really, I've never really thought about that. Yeah. You got big old eyeballs. I, no. I've never really thought about that. Yeah, you got big old eyeballs. I think you're just – I think – so I feel like this is so fucking liver king. Like if you eat balls, you'll have healthy balls.

But I think your eye – I think you're taking in a lot. Like you're just taking – yeah, you're just taking – yeah you're in your eyes say it your eyes are like yep this this this person's taking in a lot like this person this person's watching what the fuck's going on like you're awake you're you're on you have a lot going on out here like you're paying attention you know what i mean like an animal that cares about what's going on outside yeah you know what's so crazy that you said that listen to how crazy this is so every gym i've been to this like you know how you have like a seat at the table with your family and like you you that's your that's your seat so at the gym

i have a spot and my spot is in the back what's the name of your gym what's the name of your gym uh crossfit weddington okay and i have a spot in the back corner where I'm away from everybody, but I observe the whole gym and I face, everybody faces like parallel to the garage door and I face perpendicular because I'm in the corner and I just observe and I am, I am an observer, but I like to be, I like that spot because I feel like protected I know that sounds ridiculous no no no no I'm with you I'm 100% with you

I totally need to be in that spot too like when I get in my spot when I go into a restaurant if I give someone the more protected spot like I'll give let Greg get the more protected spot, like I'll give, I'll let Greg get the more protected spot some, most of the time. And that's like huge deferential to me. That's like me, like bowing my head to you, but I need the protected spot too. I like the protected spot. Yeah. When I work out in the middle of the gym where the most people do, I feel so exposed and I don't know, I can't even put into words what feels exposed, but there's so much comfort in that corner spot. And it's so funny, like, you know, that you look like you, that you made that observation and this is how I live my life, you know? Well, everyone sees it. Just most people don't say that there's two things going on with me. One, I'm paying attention to what I'm thinking

about. I'm paying attention. I pay attention a lot to what's going on on the inside, like a lot. to what I'm thinking about. I pay attention a lot to what's going on on the inside. Like, a lot. But most people have no idea what the fuck's going on on the inside. Like, at all. That's why they do weird shit, right? I mean, you want to get me started on tattoos and piercings.

But that's because they're not paying attention to what's going on on the inside. And then the next thing, and they're trying to put it on the outside because that's where they want to pay attention to it too. So they're taking their inside shit and trying to push it out so that they to put it on the outside because that's where they want to pay attention to it too so they're taking their inside shit and trying to push it out so that they can see it on the outside because they don't want to pay attention to it on the inside

too much ownership but then the other thing is that other people and this just comes with being old once you start paying attention to the inside you just start saying it and so like I know there's something going on like there's some like someone really wise could look at you and be like,

figure you out like in two seconds. Like, you know what I mean? Like your, your being is like there, right there. I just, I just don't, I don't know what it is, but I know that like, you're, you're not hiding it. Whatever it is you're sharing with the world or you're taken from the world, you're not hiding it. Anyway, I didn't mean to make it.

I like that about myself. Oh, it's so good. It's disarming. Probably one of the things that makes you a good teacher. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I felt like this was a good discussion of the superficial to like, hey, can you can you can you help the kids stretch tight to to just life in general? And, you know, the journey people take. I didn't get to any of my notes. I hope our paths cross again. I really like you from afar and I'd like you even more in person. So that's kind of weird. Yeah. I feel the same way. Like, you know, we, we have crossed paths, but without really ever knowing each other. And I love getting to know someone on a deeper level. And I didn't know what to expect, like our conversations and i love that we talked about all all the things deep and emotional but also added some practical some practical shit yeah yeah you're fun to talk to and very insightful man so thank you you're so talented um i was

very lucky to watch you you know through the CrossFit years as well, too, with your talent. And I'm really grateful you continue with that yourself. Keep it up. Thank you. Yeah, let's do it again. Totally. Absolutely.

Thank you. So thank you so much. I would keep going to I'm going to take the kids to the skate park. It's my it's my Thursday morning routine. I am my my my youngest son broke his shin. It's crazy. And so I'm a little unsettled during this whole podcast. Cause I kind of want to get back inside and check on him. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, and I do hope your son heals well and quickly. Yeah. Yeah. He's got, he seems like he's got a good support system over there. So go take care of him. Thank

you so much for having me have a great time. state skate park and um we'll cross paths soon i know awesome thanks for sharing all your insights i appreciate it you got it bye-bye okay bye pamela pamela pamela whoo powerhouse holy shit now uh just listen to uh pamela pamela. Hey, powerhouse. Holy shit. I kind of got, oh, I'm a little tingly. It's different than I need a cigarette. I'm a little tingly from talking to her. Holy shit. That was crazy.

Yeah, super hot too. That's probably, and I had to block that out though. I can't, I'm not, I block out almost all the girls I talk to. i had to block that out though i can't i'm not i block out almost all the girls i talk to i have to block out what they look like i can't can't do it just can't do it uh man powerhouse though what a uh what a cool human being i'm so curious to meet her sons what happens when you have a mom like that i'm not aroused it's no not aroused thank you for um throwing that in the chat i appreciate it i'm just i'm tingly that was cool it was real it was fun

and and i'm pretty intense this morning because i um because of the situation my kids in all right i'm gonna run back inside the house uh take two of my boys to skating uh love on my one that has the busted shin man a busted shin is gnarly i was there when he broke it wow fuck i'll tell you guys about it on the next live call-in show um yeah i yeah let's get some surfers on the show you know who i had had? I had that famous CrossFit surfer dude, the one who has the three brothers. I had him on the line. I'll start bugging him again. I saw it happen.

I think his shin hit the concrete and folded all fucked up. He says the skateboard hit it. He's only six. What's crazy? He had landed a 50 50 and he was debating on whether to just turn to come back in i think it's called an axle stall and then when you do it and you grind and you come back in it's a 50 50 and he went back in and uh and i watched it and he landed it for a second and then the board slipped out from underneath them oh god it was brutal I think it's gonna set my wife back more than um me

all right uh love you guys uh it's a Friday night Friday night uh John Young Mike Halpin Taylor Self Young Mike Halpin Taylor self there's someone else I don't know Caleb and Susie will be lurking let me see no not that oh um uh uh uh we talking about the rogue invitational

oh Pedro Pedro holy shit Pedro will be here no Hiller I can't have Hiller on those shows he's too big time he'll steal the whole fucking show you gotta be very smart how you let Hiller in and out he's too big time he'll steal the whole fucking show you can't have hillary you got to use him you got to be very smart how you how you let hillary in and out too big time he's too big time still the whole fucking show ah my keyboard stopped working again

um and don't anyone be like I said he's going to steal the whole show I'm just joking it doesn't matter if he steals the show or not it's just the CrossFit Games update show is more it's more dorky than Hiller, Hiller needs his own he does need his own show when he's on

I mean he can be on those shows too but those shows are nice to have a different cast of characters than the batman um i think i have asked him if i have asked him it was a long time ago i could bug him again i think he'd be a great guest too all right uh talk to you guys soon Hopefully the throttling goes away. The numbers seem almost normal now. 194. But the last two shows have been just... Fuck, man.

I can't remember the last time we didn't get a thousand people. All right. Love you too, Audrey. Bye-bye.