The Sevan Podcast - Professional CrossFit Athlete Roundtable w/ Angelo DiCicco & Saxon Panchik

Episode Date: September 3, 2024

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What does possible sound like for your business? It's more cash on hand to grow with up to 55 interest free days. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit mx.ca slash Business Platinum. Bam! We're live. Caleb Beaver from a RV somewhere in the United States doing God's work. And hello, hello Chico firefighter, CrossFit Games athlete, Saxon Pancik, you own Jim Saxon?

Not anymore. Owned a CrossFit affiliate, came out of the same- Consider athlete, owned an affiliate, mentor of an affiliate with my brother, coach, I've seen it all. Come out of the womb with two of the same womb as two other CrossFit games athletes. You guys shared the same womb. One of them at the same time.

Fuck that must have been tight. Don't get it twisted. Don't send your hate DMS dispenser. This is Saxon. Look at the fucking name Thanks guys for having you on what a what a what a what a time We had the CrossFit Games Crazy wild situation obviously with the death of Lazar Dukic

One of the athletes best guy ever to come out of you know You're up for a long time. Yeah, I'm champion over there and then in both you guys competed in the games this year and then the quick the the Startling news to me for and I know and by the by the way, Saxon may look young, but because

of his grant old ass brother, I've seen Saxon at the game since the dawn of time. He used to be Scott's bag boy. Of course, Scott became his bag boy. And then so Saxon's been around forever. And then Angelo has a crazy historical knowledge himself and competitive experience You compete as a kid too, right? Yeah. Yeah, and then obviously everyone knows When Scott VanderSloot's not around holding riches nuts Angelo steps in yeah. Yeah Well, we're both there. I get the right and he gets the left usually. All right So any Saxon thank so thanks for coming on and I'm Saxon. I'm not that you guys needed that introduction, but it's good

So Saxon you competed the entire games Yeah, yeah, I can get it the whole things. I think we were talking a little bit before and I've seen a lot of different CrossFit games. I started CrossFit back in 2008 as a consumer. I didn't even know what the CrossFit games were at the time. I was just a kid going in an affiliate looking to beat my brothers. But that's kind of where I started. I've been to the games in some capacity since 2012, whether that was cheering my brother on, coaching him, and then eventually competing at the CrossFit game. So I feel like I've seen quite a bit, although I, like you said, I may look young, got a little beard coming in, but, um, I've been around for quite some time and I've seen a

lot of different things. So yeah, this year was very interesting and I just kind of want to speak on some of those things that we saw bring a little more light to things. I feel like this is a very hard time for anyone to speak because there's so much criticism. No matter what you say, no one's gonna say the right thing. People are going to hate you and some people are gonna love you. But at the end of the day, my number one thing is I want to see this community come together. I know and that's why I fell in love with this is not because of the CrossFit Games but because of what's happening inside an affiliate and

When you get to the CrossFit Games, that's just amplified so much more it's like you have every single affiliate just like surrounded around you if you're competing and I just I want to be able to bring that that together more and I want to be able to see us come together and stop with the hate and Figure out and put all the facts out there. Let people come up with their own opinions because at the end of the day You know, there's loud people out there putting their opinions out and it's not everyone's opinion. So People are gonna probably hate what I say. That's okay. Some people are gonna like it. That's also fine You know, I just want facts and that's it You know, I just want facts and that's it

You see you I hear you and it sounds really good. But what about? When you ask for someone to step down Who's been who invented the games who's been here forever who's been here longer than anyone who's done so much for? Everyone whether they know it or not and built that it's gonna it's gonna cause a division right I mean it absolutely I yeah it's you're right part of me like I like I don't want to be I don't want to be mean to anyone but at the end of the day I feel like we're in this arena we've stepped into this arena now like someone's like hey we're coming after Dave yep like we're in this arena. We've stepped into this arena now like someone's like hey, we're coming after Dave

Yeah, and we're coming after Dave with this organization called the PFAA and man as much as I'd like to I agree with you those days were fucking awesome, you know the invictus days and the love tunnels and and you know all the pan checks there with their mom and dad and you know They all work out together in the affiliate and the camera pans over room and they're in the fans stands. And yeah, that shit was great. But this is a tough time, a tough time to get through.

I think, I don't think the CrossFit Games, I don't think anyone expected them to be what they are today. It kind of turned into its own beast and that's okay. But if you go back and you look at the original days, it was just people throwing down to throw down and want to beat each other at the ranch in the dirt. That's kind of how it started and it turned into this thing where more people are coming in, more opinions are going to come in. And at the end of the day, we need to remember Dave started this on the ranch, you know, like he kind

of created, he created, you know, essentially the CrossFit Games with Greg Glassman. And I think it's, I find it very unfair for you to, for people to come in and want to push them out. Yep. All the facts. Yep, exactly. Yeah, it just was so, it was too, too quick, too early. And I think that they even doubled down on the fact that They I guess in the coffee pods and wads that they think it was the timing was fine And I don't really understand how you could say that without knowing Like yeah, well, I guess they don't care that to say that. Oh, yeah, this was Dave's fault a hundred percent It almost doesn't have anything to do with that

That's honestly like the biggest issue is it doesn't, it doesn't really even stem from, uh, the whole issue at the games, you know, uh, with Lazar drowning, it doesn't have to do anything with that. It's it's that COVID, you know, exactly, you know, when I've seen it since then, um, and seeing what, seeing what an agenda, you know, at the end of the day, an agenda, you know, when I had conversations with the PFA, I asked, you know, how many people, cause I didn't vote on this letter going out. So that's the, that's the fact, you know, I asked how many people before this letter

went out, how many people I recall seven, we might say nine, seven and nine. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Seven and nine people at seven to nine people voted on that going out that I was made aware of. Okay. And there was 79 individual athletes in the game this year. So, wait a second, yours, when did you find that out? After it went out, you made some inquiries in your life?

It went out this week. After the letter went out, after this thing was posted here? And like, this week after the letter went out, after this letter went out and there was conversations. Don't, don't get me wrong. Like, like there were conversations with large groups of people, training camp coaches, um, you know, coaches in general agents, athletes of all levels. Like, but like no one was made aware of. I mean, I'm sure they talked about that on a Zoom call. I was on one of the Zoom

calls. And it was just so much, in my opinion, a lot of things that weren't about the safety in finding the best way to move forward, and taking care of Lizard and to make sure that this doesn't happen again. I've just seen so many different agendas and so many different people speaking different things that, you know, what like what's this really about? Yeah, you know, if you're going to say, Oh, you know, seven to nine people voted on this, this was the entire board, it was unanimous. Okay, but yet, you know, people were upset that 78% of people voted to continue to move on with the games and that that was

sent out to every single athlete. But yet you go and do the same thing. That's where I'm going to draw the line. Meaning CrossFit took the time to get everyone's vote on what to do, but the board that's supposed to rep, and if I'm mischaracterizing it, sorry, but there's also this picture being painted that the athletes weren't checked in on right on one hand, right? They're saying they weren't and then but yet the board that claims that they represent the athletes, the PFAA, they only checked in with ten or ten or less. Exactly. It's exactly the opposite of what it sounds like to everyone. Because I did

hear what Brent said that in their little group meeting that he said, maybe this is true, you know, I wasn't there. But he said, you know, Dave, you can't say that this was in collaboration with the athletes because no one's in the right frame of mind to be making this kind of decision. But the next day he went and said that it was in collaboration. What was he supposed to say? He talked to all of us. We voted and everyone had to say, and yes, I do want to compete or no, I don't want to compete.

So like when they asked me, and here's the thing I was cool. Like at the end of the day, you know, we had the conversation of. Brent didn't want this coming from the athletes that we collaborated at the games. So you're telling me you want Prospect to hear you out. And then when it comes time to make the decision and everybody had a say in it, you don't want, you don't want them to say that, oh, that was collaboration that, you know, we had a conversation about it. Like, how does that even make sense? Yeah. By sending out a poll, all of us and letting us vote on it and us

having, you know, you were there, it was hours of us. Like we're, we were there for an hour and a half, two hours. And at a certain point, I'm like, I don't even know if we're going to compete at this keeps going on. Like we just need to come to a conclusion. And then, you know, we split off. This is my thing. When, when, when shit gets hard, how many of these guys stood up in front of 500 of the people? Yep. Yeah. Like I only remember you and Cole, like Dave stood up and took it. Yeah. You know, and yeah, people were coming after him. I get it. Like, yeah, people had the right, you know, for what they understood at the time, I understand why people wanted to come after him, you know, and have those companies about having the conversations. But like, none of these guys stood up of like, Oh, we told you this, we told you that, you know, like, yeah, but then we all continue to compete. And then all of

a sudden, the games finish. And we told you this, and we told you that. And that's the other thing I want to get into is the stuff that the conversations that we had about the PFA and the games was about heat acclimation. Yes, absolutely. But it was how many events are going to be outside. Okay. And I mean, I could pull the statement up, but like how many events are going to be outside and CrossFit's rebuttal was less than you saw in Madison or Carson. When was this? When was this? A month before the game? I must be back in June, maybe July.

Okay. So, so, so even before the semi-finals? Yeah, I'd have to before the semifinals. Yeah. I'd have to look at the exact date. Okay. I think the semifinals were the end of May. Yeah. Yeah. An early day.

Yeah. And a main. So, so where was I going with that? I'll bring you all, I'll remind you, but let me ask you this. I'll remind you, um, where do these conversations of heat take place? You're saying you're talking through email. That's an email that I received. Okay. And so you're saying that PFAA shared with you as a member of the PFAA the conversations they were having with CrossFit,

trying to get information of how many events were going to be outside. Right. And they said less than, and here's the, here's the thing. If you put the facts together of what it is, okay, less than Madison. Okay. Well, there was about four to five events in Madison, which is going to leave you with about two to three events outside. First week of July, four weeks out from the games, we learned that we were going to do a run swim exact distance, exact swim. So, okay. We knew that we were going to be doing a log event outside. That was four weeks out, three weeks out from the games. We learned that we were going to do a run, swim, exact distance, exact swim. So, okay, we knew that we were going to be doing a log event outside, that was four weeks out. Three weeks out from the games, we learned that we're gonna have Friday night lights

at night, 1600 meter run, and then a sprint. Okay, so that's two. So like, there was plenty of time for heat acclimation, and really I would say a lot of that was like the financial burden that athletes are going to have to spend to get to the heat. Like we knew it was in Texas, we knew it was going to be hot and we knew that there were going to be some events outside.

Yeah. You knew that as soon as they announced it. You can just assume if you're, if you have been to the games or even if you watch the games at all, then you can understand, okay, it were in Texas, we're probably going to go outside. And then they said exactly where you're going to go outside for less, but we will be outside. And he gave the times by the way, we knew Friday night lights with the sun would be down and he did announce that the tentative scheduling for the run swim was 7 AM, but they might start it as early as six.

And, and as you guys all know, when we got there, it was dark and the sun was not out. And so, so, I mean, that's where I'm like, Okay, well, now it's we're pointing the fingers, we said this, we said that, okay, and we can put we can put a little puzzle piece together to understand, okay, well, this is what we're looking looking at. So like, for me, I felt like we had all the information that we needed to. And I mean, at the end of the day, it's like, throughout all of the other stages of the CrossFit season, there are the CrossFit games, we know the workouts,

you know, the open we haven't, we have four or five days to go through it. You look at quarterfinals, we have an entire weekend to go through it, semi finals, we had a five weeks to go through it, the unknown and the unknowable, you know, it's something. And here's the thing, I would say we probably knew, I don't know, maybe 50 to 60, maybe 70% of the workouts for the weekend. Like at some point, like that's what we're signing up for. You know, we're signing up to not know workouts and like, to me, it just feels like people want all the workouts to go out so we can prepare and do this and that. But like, that's, that's not what it is.

That's everyday life. You know, that's why we train. That's why, you know, I have a 60 year old in the gym that's training so that they can get out of bed or if you have something that happens outside, someone flips their car, you got a group of CrossFitters that can come flip the car like the unknown and the unknowable. That's what we train for. Yeah. And on that note, I do remember at least a half dozen athletes that I interviewed when the semi-final leakouts worked. Sorry, when the semi-final leakouts worked

Sorry when the semi-final leakouts Take three when the semi-final workouts leaked They were upset not that they leaked but because then they were going to be tempted to do them so many times and possibly incur injury So I mean you can't have it both ways, right? People train stupid, you know, in anything that you do, like, you know, like if you understand, like I would like to think if you're going to the CrossFit Games, that you have an understanding of programming.

If you don't, you should probably take your level one. Yeah, that'd be a good place to start. Like, you know, like, and I'll go off on this. I'm not saying everybody on the PFA doesn't have their level one, level two, level three, because I know people that sign off on that do, but I will say some of the people probably don't. And I know they don't. Like how can you want CrossFit to listen to you? Pat's proud that he doesn't have his level one.

How do you expect CrossFit to listen to you if you're not even willing to listen to their methodology? Like it works both ways. So like That's at the end of the day. Like maybe they don't understand the methodology. Maybe they don't understand You know, i'm not going to fault them for not understanding CrossFit Yeah, the the the unknown and unknowable and like I know I speak for sax and I for sure When I say that we like the game so much we want to continue to compete in the games because that's like our favorite part. Like the other stages are just an opportunity to get to the games and have, have a chance at that unknown and unknowable.

And that's like, I look forward to that part every year. Like that's why we train. I want you to stump me because I want to know where I can go get better. Like of course, like if you have the answers to the test, yes, chances are you're not going to be like exposed. It's going to come down to more like a semi final race where it's coming down to just milliseconds or like strategy. Let me play devil's advocate here. Maybe that's why some people want to separate the sport from the methodology so badly. Yeah. Well, maybe they should go on their own.

Yeah, but that exactly. I think it like what Saxon said, it's it's one in the same. Like it's it's one in the same about, you know, you might have to go help somebody. You know, somebody you see somebody on the side of the road of their car

flipped over. Now you you've done tire flips in your affiliate. Now you you're like, hey, there's a group of us. We can go flip that car over and get that person out like, you know, it's the same thing for the CrossFit game. Just set it a little bit of different level.

And I'm sure you use your fitness in the unknown and unknowable every day you're at work. Yeah, exactly. David Winn, restore athletes trust in CrossFit sport. Any athlete that doesn't trust the sport, they want to participate in is welcome to refrain. So I hear that and that makes sense, but is a

little bit what about the pushback that like, hey, like someone wrote in my comments, hey, how can you think they don't care? And I'm like, wait a second, I never said that they don't care. Like I think that the people who fucking give their kids vaccine one hour after they're born, I think that they think that they care, even though they're injecting their kid with big pharma drugs one after the kids one hour after the kids born forever changing the immune system

Do I think that they know they're fucking the kid up? No The doctor told them hey, you're you want your kid to get a venereal disease and the parents not thinking and they take the shot, right? That's the one that they give you right when you're born, which is bizarre a world. Uh um So I don't think we disagree. Well, let me let me ask that do you disagree that they when you say these agendas? One of the agendas might be um that they want to make the sport better. You think that there's other agendas? Yeah, I mean everybody has an agenda like I had an agenda to come on here and spit the facts like you're not doing something if you don't have an agenda. Yeah

But I think we take it carte blanche that their agenda is to make the sport better. And it's not to make the sport better. It's to make it how they want it. Yeah, absolutely. These that are going to give them more security. Like here's the thing is like the sport didn't start off to create a career for athletes. Like that's not why it started. You know,

like it turned into that somewhat, but like, you know, you go back and you look, I mean, you even heard Rich speak on it in one of the documentaries, if I recall, but he said that if he didn't win the games, he was going back to the fire department. Like, you know, like that's just, to me, that's it, you know, and I think it's like, it's turned into this thing that can create more money and people see opportunities and potential but like you know at the end of the day like Dave created a great glassman created it and you know how how they want that to be is how they want it to be like what's to say if this turns into something so big that you know becomes too much for anyone to handle.

Dana White said recently in the last year, being a UFC fighter is not a job, it's an opportunity. Yeah, that's it. And I thought that was pretty apropos for what we have here in CrossFit too, maybe even more so, right? Hey, dude, this isn't a job, it's an opportunity. And I think that there's some confusion there Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so, too

I'm being a firefighter's a job owning a CrossFit gym is a job Being a CrossFit athletes an opportunity to become the fittest person alive, but it's not a We're not there. It's not a job. I mean, at the end of the day, it's like, here's, and here's the thing, you know, if the young athletes that I've spoken to, that like, even at the games, they wanted to continue, you know, like these young athletes and I'm kind of like in the middle of that pack, but like we fell in love with it for what it was. We fell in love with it for who was doing

it at the moment. I just feel like a lot of the people that are talking are people on their way out looking for a career because at the end of the day, man, like I look at this, I've given everything I have to CrossFit. I've been doing it since I was 10 or 11 years old. I didn't go to college because I wanted to be in an affiliate because I wanted to learn to become a better coach, to become a better athlete, to change lives. You know, and like when I'm done competing, I don't know what I'm going to do. You know, I don't have a degree. I gave everything that I have to CrossFit. You have a lot of these people that maybe they don't understand that and what their plans are after CrossFit.

And maybe they're trying to create a plan for themselves or an exit strategy. But like if you look a lot at these young athletes, like they fell in love with it because it was the unknown, the unknowable, because how the games were ran and how we were challenged. And at the end of the day, it's, I just feel like a lot of people talking are either retired athletes or people on their way out or people that didn't make the games. And they're trying to figure out a way to, to create longevity in it. And I just want to make sure that the methodology and what made CrossFit so special doesn't get lost in that. And for me, I'm going to make sure that I go to ends meets,

make sure that that is held in place. Hey, earlier you guys said something about in 2020, it started their agenda. Could you expand on that? Yeah, I would say, I mean, mean back in 2020 we had a lot of calls There was a lot of plans on different structures that we can move forward with the season And Greg Glassman obviously and I had conversations, you know, like when Greg put his thing out and people were upset You know, I told specific people on the PFA. Hey, if you don't like it, go tell Greg Glassman that have the conversation with them. Hey, we want

you to sell, you know, we think you're no longer fit for this position. Have that conversation. Greg wouldn't sell. What happened? Greg sold. First message I sent. Hey, Greg sold. Did you see that? Oh, I thought Greg wasn't going to sell. You know what I mean? Like, well, maybe you should step up and have a conversation, you know what I mean? Like, well, maybe you should step up and have a conversation, you know? And that leads to everything today. It's like all of this stuff is behind emails and this and that.

Like I said, if you have a problem, then roll up the HQ, say, listen, we're not leaving here until we come to a solution and we get it in an agreement. We have a contract. Like I wanna see this sport succeed and I wanna take care of the athletes. That's the conversation that should be had. Not putting it out to try and get the community.

And I don't even want to say community, but the division they're creating more of a divide. Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, there's no reason to divide anymore. Like, let's come to a freaking solution. I don't understand why it's, it should, this should have been the biggest thing that brought everyone together that this, know this is such an opportunity like it made me think of I mean I you know sax not really young for 9-eleven but it makes me think of like how 9-eleven was where everything like came together because you know we went through this huge tragedy together and as across the community it just is war it's way worse after the fact when like that like, that's not how it should be, it should be okay,

we need to get together and come up with a plan together and not call for someone's head who's at the top of it who we don't like, you know, use it as an opportunity to get rid of somebody finally, like, it's just not the way it's just to add on to that. And I'm sorry, I'm hot tonight. But like, people like that, and I like hot sex. But for people to like that. Jackson, I like Jackson. But for people to say, you know, we're going through hell week and buds and this and that you guys are acting like Dave's telling us to jump out of a helicopter in the middle

of the woods and wait, make it back to the venue. Like, at no point for me at no point, one, did I ever feel unsafe or felt like we were asked to do something unreasonable? Like I felt like that's never happened. Two, from 2012 to present day, I have yet to see anyone stand up in an athlete brief and say that they have some type of concern with outside of movement standards. Like if people felt unsafe at any point,

then like speak up, you know? Like you look, Scott spoke up about his foot and he went to ends meet to make sure that those ropes were cut. Like he showed up next week at the semi-final and said, these ropes need cut. And what happened? They were cut.

Like, you know what I mean? Like if it's something that you believe in, then step up and actually do something about it. Stop trying to get people behind you to back you. Like step up and just do it, be a leader. Well, you know what their excuse is, you'll be blackballed or in the classic example of that is, is look at Matt Fraser had the most contentious relationship

in the history of CrossFit with Dave and he's filthy rich and he has five titles. So it seemed to work out for him and he did two open announcements. And so I call bullshit on that. I will tell you two times, I do know of two instances where athletes did have concerns in the w with the water. They told the HQ staff ahead of times and they were, and they were both

given escorts on the swim. So it's kind of to prove your point that if you do speak up in certain situations, um, I'll say this, you know, at the athlete brief, no one had any concerns. The only concern was people didn't want to wear swim caps. Like, you know, like I, I, that one had any concerns. The only concern was people didn't want to wear swim caps. Like, you know, like I, I, I, that was the only concern, but like if people worried about the temperature, like nobody said it then and there when we were going through everything.

Like, of course, like I didn't, like, here's the thing. I didn't know that about the water temperature if it was over 87, like, you know, X, Y, Z, but like, you know, like if not, if nothing happened, would anyone have mentioned that? Like, it's easy to go break down anything in the facts after of like, you know, well, we could have done this, we could have done that better. But like at the end of the day, like, let's just come up with a solution and let's make sure this doesn't happen again. And let's get our community to rally behind each other. Yeah. Yeah. Actually

get the interest, Actually get the interest of what everyone thinks and not speak, not say you speak for everybody and get a small group of people that you all agree with in an echo chamber and come out with this, with these lists of demands when I mean you have plenty of athletes just like Saxon who don't agree with it and want to find a solution together that we all can agree on and not not have a certain group come out with something that no one agrees on. And I'm not hate like here's the thing I'm not hating on everything the PFA is doing like I respect some of the things they're doing. I don't respect them calling for Dave

like that's that's the one thing like okay I can see some of the stuff that you were saying and what you wanted to to get across I get that. Okay, let's move forward with that. But to go after someone before like people even know, they act like they were sitting in the room and they they watched him create protocols. And you know, it was all on him. Like, yep, you know, you don't think Dave's you don't think Dave feels horrible. You don't think you know, anyone else there feels horrible. Like, I don't know, I just that's the one thing that I just don't think anyone else there feels horrible? I don't know. That's the one thing that I just don't understand is you're going after one person for one thing, but to me it feels like,

and the information that I've gathered is it's for a greater purpose to push an agenda. And I'll go through this. I talked to some of the members of the PFAA, and I asked them, I said, what do you think of the master? And areAA and I asked him, I said, what do you think of? And are you a member too, Saxon?

Are you a member? Uh, I wouldn't say I'm not a voting member. Like as to like nine people, are you, are you a member, uh, Angela? No, no, I'm not eligible. Oh, okay. So you're not really, you're not eligible. I mean, I technically, technically maybe I think you have to be it's it's based on individual success in the last 24 months, I think. Okay. For the most part.

Okay, sorry, Saxon. Go ahead. So I want to say this, I'll say, you know, I asked him, I said, Did you see master's workouts or the team workouts? No. Okay. Well, like, are those guys not part of the community? Like people worried about the SoCal workouts of what they're going to do. Okay, well what about the masters and teams? You know? You're not gonna review that, but yet you go and you look on social media

and who shows up for the masters competition all weekend? Dave and Don. You know, they were catching all of this heat right now and they still showed up. While everybody else is sitting there calling for their heads. Like, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, don't say that you're looking for one thing whenever you go and you

do another and you can't back up what you're saying. Yep. And you could argue that the teams and the masters need more supervision, um, than the individual and the teams for sure. You could. It would be, I mean, everybody deserves the equal amount of attention. Yeah. If everything's being done the right way, it should be equal across the board. We're taking care of everybody. Not just taking care of ourselves.

Angelo, did Kara Saunders husband throw insults at you? Yes. And I'll do that's all I'll say. I just want to address this KF person because yeah, I'm going to get into these comments. KF, I would love to know if you were actually at the games and you're asking about actual legitimate lifeguards. Were you there? You know he's one of the few trolls we have in here and um what's K Karen? Probably uh it's probably Karen but I use a lot man. I haven't seen what KF's posting, but I saw Hiller in there telling to shut the fuck up. And for Hiller, he doesn't usually talk like that.

He called him a retard too. Oh, wow. Yeah. He doesn't usually. They act like these weren't lifeguards. I'm just saying. Saxon, you're forgetting he's the director and didn't hire lifeguards.

You don't know that. You don't know that. And come on, bro. No, you come on, bro. And you're forgetting he's the director and didn't hire lifeguards. You don't know that. You don't know that and come on bro. No you come on bro and you're too emotional. Saxon you're not emotional at all. Don't even listen to me. You're retarded. That means it's yeah. That's why he's sitting there behind KF and I got Saxon Piantrick under my name. I'll put my full name on there. Yeah bitch. But like yeah that's it. Where are the live-streamed sacks and real ones? Let's hear it. Yes. Okay. We'll move past it.

Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. And then I got some questions. Hit me with the questions. So this is the first time I'm hearing this. So I want to go back and review what you just said, what you guys were just saying, you and Angelo telling me. This went out and I want to go back and review what you just said, what you guys were just saying, you and Angela telling me this, this went out and I want

to work up to the agenda thing. And I can't believe I didn't think of this before this went out and it was only, it was all, and it wasn't shown to neither of you had seen it before. And you're a CrossFit Games athlete who competed this year. So you're one of the, the 39 for sure, Saxon. And then you're a CrossFit Games athlete who competed on the teams and you were in that private meeting that happened, the go forward team that decided Angelo. So both you guys were part of that go forward team. And then this letter goes out and calls for Dave to come down. Now if I'm hearing you guys right, this is what I'm taking from you guys.

If the goal was, which you like, You've said you like Angelo To make CrossFit better meaning Better workouts safer more fluid whatever even though you have no problem with how it's gone in the past But if the goal is to make it even better your fucking game Why mix it with this other number three have Dave Castro drop down? Mix it with this other number three have Dave Castro drop down Be fired you're saying that like hey if the goal if the agenda is to make everything better Why did you make it with this other harebrained agenda? That's just gonna cause division Why didn't you get all the athletes on board and have them just sign a simple letter?

Hey, let's let's have 500 athletes say that any swim events moving forward. We would like to see the fucking lifeguard plan Can you sign that and that would have been a great step. All of you would have signed it. And then that would have been a victory, small victory. Instead, you're saying how did our safety and Lazarus death get turned into this agenda to get Dave right? And that's it. You know, I think that's in reality. I think that's, that's it. You know, wow. I don't know how I didn't see that before.

I'm kind of, I feel like I'm kind of naive because I actually take it for granted that they actually have a lifeguard plan. And I think that's a great step. And I think that's a great step. And I think that's that's it. You know, wow I didn't know how I didn't see that before I'm kind of like I'm kind of naive because I actually take it for granted that they actually do want to make shit better But I but I if on in all fairness, I think Pat and Brent have been Dave haters for a long time I okay, but I do yeah, but I think they've been haters. I think I go ahead. Sorry I do think they I do think they want to make things better But I don't think for for their own agenda I think that they think that they're doing what's best and they're doing what's best for what they

For what they're in crowd is telling them. But what about everybody else who disagrees with it? Why why is no one else like sex and why is no one else saying? Why does no one else have a chance to say like hey, I don't agree with that Like can we find a different way? Like, I don't think that's the answer. Like, they just send it out. About making the do you think you're a minority Saxon? Because basically with this decision and you saying this, you're basically saying, Hey,

dude, I can't be a part of your fucking group. If you go for that guy, like all your other shit, but why'd you have to throw that in there? And you could legitimately say what would that what does that have to do with our safety? Right? I would say I would say I would say this and I asked this question. Okay. You want Dave out who's going to program training crank training camps.

Yeah. People that already get leaked workouts like bro like you know what I'm saying like you want to sit here and you don't have a solution. You're asking for somebody to step away and you don't have a solution.'re asking for somebody to step away. Yeah, have a solution What's the solution? Oh you want to like do you want to be in that position? Like who do you want in that position? You want it to be a training camps? Do you want to be a collective group is it because you don't like you know, like, you know that that's my question like Like why are you guys in the minority? I like what Hiller did there. Do you think you're a minority?

Are you guys in the minority? I like what Hiller did there. Do you think you're a minority? Fuck you, Andrew. No, we're definitely not the minority. You're not the minor. Do you think you're the majority? I think we're the s- I think there's a big silent majority who really is waiting for someone like me and Saxon to say this stuff. Right, okay. Here's the thing is like everybody wants to- I keep saying that, but like people don't want to speak up because it is,

it's a hard thing to speak on. And I spoke about this at the games was like, this can't be a decision that's made on emotion. Like, you know, if we choose, like if we chose to go forward with the games, or if we didn't choose to go forward with the games, this is a pivotal point for CrossFit, whether it's here next year,

or whether it's not here next year. And maybe these guys are too caught in emotion and they're just looking for something, but we can't react on emotion. We have to be logical. We have to think five steps ahead and figure out, okay, well, what's the plan if we do this? What's plan A? What's plan B?

My big thing is, when we were at that meeting, you had a lot of coaches stepping up and a lot of training camps stepping up to speak. Okay, so like, let's just say I'm a coach of a training camp and I have, you know, 10 athletes. And me as a coach, I have my view of like, I don't think you guys should compete. But yet you have five athletes that want to compete and five athletes that don't want to compete me as a coach. I'm like, well, I don't want to coach you if but yet you have five athletes that want to compete five athletes that don't want to Compete me as a coach. I'm like, well, I don't want to coach you if you're going to compete like there was just so much emotion and things like that where it's like, okay, well like You know, are you going to be manipulated by your coach into making a decision that you don't want, you know Or you know, for example with this like well, what if the some of I'm not saying all of these training camps because there's a lot

Of incredible ones out there as well But like what's to say some of these training camps that are making millions of dollars off of us as consumers buying their program That they don't want to put themselves in a position to jointly program the CrossFit games, right and then all of a sudden you're driving more people to your program like Yeah, you know, I mean like there's there's a lot of stuff in place that I feel like people weren't thinking about. And I don't want people to lose sight of, you know, what's really happening. That's kind of a crazy thought is that is that even part of the

speculation process that somehow? Have you heard rumors of that? That the athletes want to program the games themselves? I would say jointly. I mean, people are going to be happy regardless. Yeah. People, they want, they, as in the PFA, we just want more say, uh, with the programming, which I don't think is right. Like I think you shouldn't have any say.

No one should, no one who's competing there needs to have any say if you're competing, because I'll say from my perspective, I'm sure Saxon same way. If I am keeping competing there and, um, and I can program stuff, obviously I'm going to program something that I'm going to do good at. I mean, I mean, who wouldn't do that? You're an idiot. Taylor Saturdays, 8am go get, oh, fuck you. Pussies. You can't beat them. Call her.

Hi. Hey, I have a question for Angelo and Saxon. Sure. Savon just wants to say hi to you too. If they really are the silent minority and they think there's a big group of silent majority majority. I'm sorry. Organization to compete with the PFA. You broke up there. I'm sorry.

One more time. Do they think they could create an organization to compete with the PFA? I mean, here's my thought is like, okay, we could compete with the PFA, but like, is it really a position that any of us should actually be in? You know, like, I feel like there could be a team that can be created outside of the athletes because if an athlete's hand is in the pot at CrossFit and coming up with things, like things are going to come out workouts are going to be told and like, people are going to push something to look out for themselves.

I personally think like, let's just say safety protocols, right? I think that should be a third party that they don't even do crossfit. They're going to come in and they're going to break it down and they're going to criticize it. And they're going to tell you this needs change, this needs change. This is what we see here. This is what could happen here. What's going to happen if this happens? Like what's your plan? Like, and you just go through it like that. But I would say when it comes to the programming, I don't think any athletes or training camps should be a part of it. It should be an unbiased thing where we're walking into tests, like the test of the fittest. Yeah. Caller. Thank you. Hey, what's interesting about that also is what she asked, um, Angela, have

you had run ins with Dave before? Do you and Dave have beef? Uh, no, we don't have any beef. Okay. For some reason I thought you guys did. Do you have his phone number? No, I don't. Saxon, do you have his phone number?

Yeah. If you text him, does he text you back? I've only texted him once. Okay. Did he text you back? Yeah. Okay. So all of us here know, um, not you, Caleb, the other three of us here know that if you if anyone that once you've reached a certain level of fucking inputs coming in, we all know like hey, there's only like three people that always get text back right and you haven't pinned at the top it's like your mom your wife and like whoever gives you money. And then everyone else you're just fighting to answer texts, right? And it doesn't mean anything whether

you respond to anyone or not. Sometimes you don't respond to the people you love the most because you're fucking want to give them your time and your text message or just chaos. We all know that all the athletes know that right? Everyone knows that once like you just hit this threshold and you just accept not texting people back and people want to be there for your friends. They have to like just keep bumping you. Right. You got, you think that's fair? What I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. So, um, we don't even have to say sorry to each other. You're just like, Oh, Hey dude, good to see you again. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

I'll come on your show Sunday, Tuesday or, or yeah, or whatever. People can have that fucking relationship with Dave. Yeah. No one. It's like what you said. anyone can build a relationship with them It's not like he's just a fucking normal dude. He gets out of bed. He scratches his balls He pees in the middle of the night Do you know what I mean? Anyone can have a relationship with them and I think some people have chosen to have a hostile fucking relationship with them Yeah, and it's like hey if you're an athlete you have a hostile relationship with the director of the fucking CrossFit games, that's probably not a good idea.

Yeah. And I know Dave, he doesn't require anyone to kiss his ass. He's not a normal guy. Maybe even even got an ism or tism or two. He got like what Andrew has. But, but he's a fucking good dude. Yeah. Well, just to add to that, I would say if you're a good leader, you should be able to walk in a room with anyone and have a civilized conversation And if you can't you probably shouldn't be leading Hmm, like that's just reality Especially when you're trying to get things done And Dave showed you guys that I guess he had his biggest test after Lazar died and he had to step in the room with all you fuckers animals. Yeah God that must have been crazy yeah it was crazy did did

did have you guys see marcos videos that he's released the team guy yeah i watched them last night yeah they're pretty good have you seen those angelo no i haven't but we we uh who wait who is that it's it's one of the guys from he's one of the teams he's got his hair pulled back oh yeah Yeah, we talked a lot Yeah, I haven't seen any of his stuff. I'd like to we we had a lot of conversations during the games Yeah, he said at one point during the games during the meeting he came over to you and he said he respected the shit How do you call her? Hi? Hey, what's up?

Chillin with Angelo and Saxon and see beaver So listen, so here's my question is talking about the Marco video. Everyone wants Dave to take the blame for what happened to those are now if the PFA gets involved in start making a safety plan, something happens under the PFA is watching they take responsibility that. Yeah, that's a question that I've had. Especially that got brought up in my mind. Someone correct me if I'm wrong when I say this, the NorCal Classic was a CrossFit sanctioned event.

It's not right now because they want to do their swim among maybe other things. They had the PFAA look at their safety plan for that and then sign off on it and gave them the seal of approval. Like, yeah, does that mean that that would, you know, if, if we go there, or if me and Saxon are watching it, and we see something happen on on the live stream that we can call them and say, Hey, PFA, you guys, you know, this is all your fault, you guys signed off on it. And you, and you have no idea what you're doing. I don't I don't get that. Well, I mean, and I'll add to that, like I said it already, I said, if you have no idea what you're doing. I don't, I don't get that. Well, I mean, and I'll add to that. Like I said it already.

I said, if you can't take the ownership that in collaboration with the athletes, you know, you know, we came to this decision at the CrossFit games. Like if you can't even own that, like, how do we expect you to own anything else? Like, you know, if you had a problem with it, you shouldn't have stepped on the competition floor. That's why I respect anyone that chose not to compete. As much as I wanted to compete, I respect anybody that just walked away because that's what they believed in. You either believe in it when your decisions you're making or you don't, but you can't come back and double down later and say, well, we thought this, we thought that. Then

you should have walked away and you should have made a stance. Yeah. Exactly. Because if this tie rate against Dave continues and then next year the PFA gets involved and it's on their watch, so now you have athletes going against athletes even more than they are now, there's just not a collective group that wants to go after Dave or wants to go after Dave, and now you have athletes attacking athletes because the PFA wanted to step in and say, no, this is a safety plan, but if it doesn't work, then it falls back on its face and we're back at square one. Caller Black John Young says no they liaise, liaise, liaise the responsibility onto someone

else meaning and I think I do remember Brent maybe saying something about this that basically what they do is they get in between the event and whoever's running the safety and maybe check their grammar and make sure communication's right. And it sounds like just an added level of bureaucracy to me. That's why I've been pushing so hard. If you want to bring something to the table, bring something to the fucking table. Don't come to the table and want to take something from someone else. I don't understand how they can go ahead

So then it's a two-headed monster when it comes to blame even the PFA is a liaison if you want to talk bureaucracy You know you have three you have three branches of government now You have two branches of government across cross you have PFA and Dave so something goes down Who do you blame and how do you blame anybody again? Like we all say you can't predict what's going to happen. You don't know what you don't know. Right. Hey, also at the end of the day, it's Dave's event.

Yeah. And here would be my question is not to cut you off, but it just kind of adding to that. I know. I'm glad you're here. If if CrossFit was to say, yeah we'll do something with athletes and the 40 athletes right now were to pick three athletes to represent them like my question would be who would be picked to represent them or five athletes you know like. The ones with the most Instagram followers what do you mean what other way is there to

choose. Yeah seriously biggest following. That would that would be my question. I'll say this, you know, when we were at that meeting, we had five people that were supposed to go represent us and have a conversation. We had an international athlete that was supposed to be representing. And when we went to go meet with the team, that person just decided to walk away. For whatever reason, they chose to walk away. They took on the responsibility to speak

on behalf of the international athletes. And then they chose to just walk away and leave. Maybe that was their way of grieving, whatever it is. But you also have things like that that's happening as well where they might've had input on international travel. That's why we brought someone international in to speak, because of the travel that they had to overcome to get there. There's just a lot of these different moving parts that I think need to be considered. For me, I want to make sure that the right people are in charge.

I would have no problem working with the PFAA. And I mean, Angela spoke to this. If we're willing to like actually have different opinions in the room and we're willing to come to a compromise and someone's not going to be happy and that's fine. But like that needs to be equal across the board. That way, you know, you have devil's advocate answering to, to proposals that they have, like, I know if I was in the room whenever this proposal came up, I know what I would have said. I know what Angela would have said. And I'll say this, I know a lot of young athletes that are intimidated by a lot of these big name athletes.

They're not going to get up and speak. You know, they haven't been around the court. I was in that position in 2020. I think it was my second or third year at the games. I was 24 and I wasn't willing to get up and speak because of judgment that I was going to face. And I know if there's rookies at the games or young athletes at the games, I'm sure that they felt the same thing and they were probably scared of, you know, what was going to happen? Is this going to be it? You know, whatever it is. And I'm sure the same thing is going

on right now. I know the same thing is going on right now with what people are requesting. Uh, caller. Thank you. We, I think, I guess the answer is we don't know. Okay, go ahead. Good. Yep. Go ahead.

So the last question more towards Angelo and it's not a taxable of a question. Now I understand that you were not one of the chosen liaison to speak for the team, correct? Uh, correct. Yes. Now going back to what Sachs said about, you have these big names in CrossFit, and you look at the video of the team overtake density team,

that these big names, they feel kind of bullied, or they feel kind of intimidated to give an answer, because you've been in the game for a long time, you're clearly attached to Rich, you're clearly attached to CrossFit Mayhem, so that's a large platform in the space. Do you think speaking your mind, people would tag you along as,

oh, if Angelo's saying it's probably coming from Rich and they feel that same intimidation? They better. They better. I mean, like as much as me and Rich agree on a lot of things, like I'm not just his puppet to where people, people may think that, I think you're right. People may think that me and Rich agree on a lot of things, I'm not just his puppet to where people, people may think that, I think you're right, people may think that me and him agree on everything.

And we agree on a lot of stuff. I don't think that has anything to do with being from across the mayhem. I think it has to do with growing up in the same 10 mile radius that we probably agree on the same stuff. We have a lot of the same friends and a lot of the same people we talk to.

So maybe our opinions are gonna be similar no matter what. But I don't think I actually didn't want to be in one of the groups in that in that smaller breakout group, because I, I wanted somebody else to be in there. Because maybe I there were other people that I knew I agreed with. And I didn't want to be in with those people, because they were saying the same thing I was saying. So I thought, well, if they're in there and they're saying the same thing I'm saying, there's no reason for me to be there too. I should let somebody else with a different opinion be in there. That way we're getting a good, you know, meeting of the minds instead of a

cold people just being in an echo chamber together. Hey, Colin, but in response to that, in all fairness, like everything, everything is about other people vouching for you. Like I would never fucking have had Angela on the podcast, but in response to that in all fairness like everything Everything is about other people vouching for you like I would never fucking have had Angela on the podcast but rich used to just bring him on the podcast all the time and I learned and I learned to respect the fuck out of Angelo and then he was you know Maybe his he got supercharged before he found his own space But it sure as fuck gives this clap this podcast clout when Saxon and Angelo will come on it or when Greg Glassman will come on or when Katie Henniger will come on it or Dave Castor or Rich Froning. So like we all get our clout from other people, but you don't get to keep your clout if you don't earn it.

Someone can bring you to the table, but Angela wouldn't have been at the table this long. And I know you weren't saying that, caller. I'm just adding to it. I'm not. know you weren't saying that collar. I'm just adding to it. I'm not But Angela definitely after get rich rich picking him up and putting him in the high chair Angelo Earned is a wheelchair Yeah, I get I guess I was talking about how you know, I'm sure certain athletes look at you know mayhem people and they all Have to think oh, there's a mayhem guy. Oh, there's you know a part of rich froning You know, it's all the same verbage and language.

If Angelo is saying it must come from rich, if rich is saying it, I'm sure Saxon has the same idea. But I just want to clarify that, you know, people have different opinions, no matter where they come from the same camp or not. And yeah, talking about that intimidation on the YouTube, I, I can understand that. But I appreciate it, guys. Thank you. Thank you.

Hey, what about I know this is off topic, but what about Rich just speaking out just like right away? That was fucking wild. He just, I mean, he just dropped the fucking nuke in his stories. That was great. Yeah, that was great. Yeah.

That was cool. Hopefully we can get Rich on. I can't wait to hear about Leadville too. Drew Arnold, in 2020, Woke and emotional athletes and affiliate owners nearly killed CrossFit with the cancellation of Greg. In 2024 they have Dave in their sights. These two men are solely responsible for your careers. Yeah. I mean the last part for sure. Do you remember what you, do you remember 2000, did you on an affiliate in 2020?

Saxon? Yeah. Was that crazy time? Yeah. Yeah. And then do you see some parallels between that and this? Yeah. This zoom calls, um, a lot of opinions and a lot of plans, I would say. Um, I would say more like plans for like, you know, how you can make this look better for an athlete. And I think, I think that's where you kind of have this shiny ball or whatever you want to call it, just kind of dangling in front of you where it's very easy to be like, oh, longevity, you know, this is a career,

you know, I can make a lot of money doing this first, you know, what's actually happening. And I think it's very easy to be blindsided by things or to be not so aware of what's actually happening and, you know, kind of taking your eyes off of like truly what happened and how we can get past that and how we can make it better by, well, you know, we have this league that we want to propose where it's like the golf or like tennis where you get these tour cards and you get a guaranteed spot back at the games if you get 2000 points in like, I think that sounds cool. Like that would be great. But not at the expense of somebody's career and somebody that has a family and kids as

well. Like, how's that fair? Like, I don't care if it's just one person, but like, you're not doing the right thing. Like if you're not going to do the right thing, how do I expect you to look out for other athletes and the future of it? Like, you know, I mean, we saw what happened with the grid league, like when people try to step away from like, what was actually happening. But I just think it's very important to understand the facts and to not lose sight of what happened and how we can move past it. There were uh uh Angela there were these what I would consider passive aggressive

comments or abstract comments that are just to rally the mob like the workouts were too long we were doing 10 000 reps when we should have only had to have done 1000 or something in one of the letters that came from the PFA, you ever been to the games? Um, and think, Oh, this is too much. Uh, have I, uh, no, I actually ha I actually haven't been in the game. You thought that this is too much. I mean, I, I feel like in training we do a ton more. Yeah.

The intensity is higher, but volume wise, I've never felt unsafe by doing too much of something. Uh, SAC maybe a marathon row, but I mean, I can get it. Right, right. Hey, hey, hey. There's the thing. I'm almost concerned that if someone hasn't thought that once.

What do you mean? Because it's the fucking test for the fittest. Yeah. Right. That was, the marathon row isn't like a test of capacity. I mean, it was a test of capacity, but like, I mean, dude, I rode that thing with the damper on one, uh, in like held like a two Oh five. I mean, then I fell apart for the last 10,000 meters because I just drank pickle juice, but like that's on me. Uh, but like, you know, like, yeah, 99% of the time it's, it's the test of the fittest. It's not

test of, you know, it's not war of attrition. Like it shouldn't be like you shouldn't be able to like, Oh, let's see who's going to make it to the last day. If you can just make it to the last day, you could probably get top 10. Like, yeah, obviously you're going to be beat up and sore and tired, but it's not, it's, it's not about who, who's the, who the toughest athlete is. I think I've even heard Dave say that he's testing fitness, not toughness. And like Saxon said, it's not, it's not, you know, it's not buds. It's not, you're not, he's not testing like a Navy seal. They're testing you for fitness. If you look at the test, if you want to test toughness, you do pushups every single day, or you do pull ups every single day, you know, you do the same thing. like yeah what i'm saying like it's absolutely a test of fitness it is tough of course it's tough by nature and because the athletes make it tough but it's not it's it's for fitness obviously uh corbin uh angelo oh sorry angelo i love you thanks gordon in a certain world that you could take

offense to that saxon since no one said that to you if you want we're in that kind of Honestly I wasn't expecting any of that Quite the opposite Let's see scroll down here if you want the test of toughness you have a 12 hour you have 12 hour events Yeah exactly Yeah you go to Brian Chantosh's house and you just, you know, you talk about toughness and that's where, you know, I, I, I'm against people using Dave's past

against him because if Dave wasn't a Navy SEAL, would people really be saying this with, with the narrative be different? Um, and you know, like I just, I feel like people are using that against him and just a stepping stone and I find that ridiculous and hey for me The same way that Dana White whether you like him or not the fact that he's a fucking tough guy He needs to be for the UFC. We need a guy who? Who can who can say the things he does tell peloton to fuck off act the way he does at the fucking um

That you and if we didn't have a navy seal As as our programmer for the crossfit games and if we didn't have that for the crossfit games I think we would lose a shitload of our swagger. I think that's Say that again you lose a lot of respect in a lot of people's mind. Like you're not, you're not respected anymore. Like I, I do think, and I, and like even Saxon said, like there is some stuff that the PFA may have like, you know, hit right on the head. This is just not one, this is not one of them. And I do think that there should be some amount of collaboration where Dave listens to what the athletes have to say. And I think the balance is somewhere like 80 20 80% of the time he said no, like I got this handled you guys don't really have a say in this like programming would be

one of those things. The other 20% would be like, hey, you know, we haven't really had a clear movement standard for this. Can we get something in writing and we can both agree on or or I guess one of the other things would be like, I mean, I think everyone can agree with Ath from an athlete's perspective. Like what happened to, oh crap, who's the guy that hurt his pec at last year's semi-finals? Was that Carone? Carone, yeah. Why can't I remember? I couldn't remember Carone. Where Carone shouldn't have been pulled out. Like he was told a certain standard that he had to keep trying and he did keep trying. He didn't really try hard, but he did continue to try. And he knew that it was gonna hurt him,

but he was gonna try to battle back. But they never get like upfront, he asked and said, they told him that he just had to keep trying, which he did. So that's another thing where like, there should've been a clear like, hey, if you don't do this amount of work before the time's up, then you don't get to move on there

And if that's what they're doing then I agree with that But that's the only to only 20% of time 80% of time It's just they should be you know, you need a leader someone who's gonna say hey guys No, this is this is my job and I'm taking the head of this and and you guys if you want to compete You're just gonna have to deal with some of these things You guys, if you want to compete, you're just going to have to deal with some of these things. Uh, Corbin Bowman. Oh shit.

Uh, Saxon. I love it. There it is. Saxon, uh, Tony loves you too. I dig a little deeper boys. No, I'm just kidding. Um, uh, Yolana I've enjoyed being a part of the live chat the last few days. Thanks for these times. Lots of, I mean, Caleb, thank you also for your insights, Angelo and Saxon.

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Oh, that's, that's a great way to put it. And you think that's why it's coming from the athletes who have just straight up the most amount of followers? I think that has something to do with that. I mean, I think also the poll from uh inside the just having you know, being able to say that they that they represent the athletes and say the pfa represents what the athletes, uh, think that that's that also is their poll like It's sounding like it's from all of us. So like anyone outside of the, of the main, you know, individual athletes would be like, Oh, this came from all of them.

So like, maybe we should support this too. What do you think about a run swim event where you swim in a vest for next year? We got Will Morad on this chat here. One division. Yeah. What's he doing? Shouldn't he be partying? Hey, speaking of which, there's this workout.

I forget what it's called, but it's this fucking insane workout. It's like Isabel, 30 muscle ups for time, and then Grace. Do you know what that is? What's that called? Standard. Will did it in like 750, 749. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think Frazier's time was like 810. He smoked it. Oh my god. That's a dog right there. Someone told me that the other day. He did that at the Masters event? Yeah, he did it yesterday. Oh, that's unfair.

They should kick him out for that. The PFA should kick him out for that. They need to let... Will's going to come back next year, I believe. Right, Will? I think he has one more in him. Saxon, are you drinking from a mason jar? should kick him out for that. They need to let Will is going to come back next year, I believe. Right, Will? I think he has one more in him. Saxon, are you drinking from a mason jar? Yes, Trish. Extra sloppy for Angelo and Saxon.

This is a serious show. Come on. It's a serious question. I know, but Saxon's a good dude a good dude 741 will sorry. I love this chat. This chat's great It's chaos dude. He's lost in the comments. Yeah, don't do it. No, I'm doing Believe I just know straight up. I mean honestly, I just want to hear what people want to hear That's it What do you think what do you think do you think that let me ask you this to speculate then. You think that Brent and Pat wish they wouldn't have done that now? That they would like what? Like, let me ask you the same thing as the guys earlier on the panel yesterday.

Why would they post that publicly? Why are they doing it publicly? Why would anybody? Yeah, well, I'll say I know they don't regret it. They doubled down yesterday. You want people to get behind you. Like you're trying to create this movement. In this chaos here to get people behind you. And that's it like because like, stand on your own two feet and like, go handle it

like you know what I mean? show up like like those guys were Down there at the Masters go sit down and have a conversation like I for me That's what I would do and and I told Brent that straight up I said I would just show up at headquarters and say we're not leaving this room until we come to a solution if you tell Me to f off then you tell me to f off it is what it is I can't say I didn't try but like I don't know how you can be respected whenever you're going you're calling these demands. And essentially for for somebody to to lose their job over, you know, the ability to actually

sit down and have a conversation like a conversation, especially when it's coming to something like this, like a conversation is not going to be easy, and you're going to disagree and that's fine. Like that's how you, that's how you make progress. But like you need to have people that have ears or and are willing to sit down and patience to sit down and have that conversation and work through it. There are other arguments. There are two arguments are people are afraid to talk to Dave and, and people and he's not

accessible. Those are, those are the two Dave and he's not accessible. Those are the two arguments. He's not accessible, right? He doesn't respond to them, which we kind of uncovered. There's something fishy going on about that. We uncovered that. Dave has an email. Yeah.

Don has a number, Don has an email. Right. And I've had- There's an address for HQ. Right. And there's other people there you can speak to also. You can speak to Heather Lawrence. I've never had, me personally, I've never had a problem getting in touch with Heather,

Dawn, or Dave. Ever. Yeah. Ever, ever, ever. And I don't think- I've talked to both of them and they were pretty instant when I asked us to have a conversation. Uh, Oh, you did speak to Dawn. Yeah.

Oh, when did you speak to Dawn after, uh, after when, after that went out, after the demands went out, you spoke to Dawn. Yeah. Wow. How could you not? I mean, here's the thing is like, if somebody didn't, maybe no one would have. And if Dave was to lose his job, I couldn't sit back and be like, well, I didn't try. I didn't reach out. I didn't have a conversation. Like, I felt I needed to have a conversation with him.

And that's what we had. He was very productive. He had his ears open. You know, I felt that we made a lot of progress and I had some answers to some of the questions that I had. And for me, I felt like I was able to move forward with peace on, you know, what I had to say. Um, I think here, let me say this to you nicely, since you guys are both CrossFit Games athletes. I, um, I'll start with the hard nasty part first. I think CrossFit athletes have way more in, they think that they have way more in,

they think that they're way more influential and people think that they're way more, sorry, they think that they're way more valuable. They think their value and their influence are equal and they're not. Their influence is immense and their value is near zero. I mean, here's the reality, right? But I don't think they choose to use their influence in a very good way.

I didn't. I mean, I haven't. You know, it's like we see James Bragg and I'm not a Christian, but like, I'm like, fuck, this motherfucker is using his influence. Yeah. Like, true to who he fucking is. You know, I mean, I can't get next to Jake Foster, one one of the coaches at mayhem with them start preaching fucking scripture to me he's using this fucking, you know what I mean? But you, you, do you guys agree with that that their

influence is a man, but their value is zero and they need to fucking get on board with that and figure out what they want to influence without without letting it go to their fucking head because really, I've been on both sides of that I've kept my mouth shut for a long time and I just kind of worked and trained and that was it you know what I did inside an affiliate with the members you know they I felt they know my love you trained in your day how many yeah how many people you think you've trained in your day thousands okay yeah I mean here's a great story and this is what people don't understand.

I had a guy that came into my affiliate and he had triple bypass heart surgery. The dude couldn't even lay off the floor and stand up without him thinking he was going to pass out and worked with him for a year. The dude was climbing a 15 foot rope and snatching 155 pounds. You know, like this guy couldn't even get off the floor when he came in. You know, it changed his life. Like imagine if you never walked into a gym, like people don't, people don't see that. Like, and I think that's why I get so irritated when people don't want to go take their level one level two or, you know, even understand the methodology because that's where the magic's at. Like that's where, that's

where the true influence comes from. And that's where you change people's at. That's where the true influence comes from. And that's where you change people's lives. It's not through your social media. Yes, we have influence, but if you were to come see me inside an affiliate, if I was to go coach a class and what you see on my social media, it's different. It's very hard to put out what you're actually doing. Maybe it's just I struggle capturing it,

but at the end of the day, what people see is just working out. And it's easy to think that we have this major influence. But you know, do we really like we're working out? Like, like we're just working out. And that one point that will at one point that will come to an end. People don't care what you post and your lists. Yeah. Well, and there are athletes out there who have over a million Instagram followers who can't get 20,000 fucking views on their reels. Who were massive 10 years ago. Joe Nels, Brent had Dave on one during his athlete interview.

Why not hold court then for the world to see You know one interview with Dave. Why not? Yeah, that's Part of what what sax was saying. I don't need so good. Hold on. Hold on again. Oh Brent had one-on-one inner Brent had Brent had Dave one-on-one during his athlete interviews. Why not hold court for then for the World's Team? Okay, go ahead, Angela, yeah.

Yeah, I think that's what Saxon said earlier, that you had these opportunities to bring something up before, but there wasn't anything to be brought up. You can't predict the future of something bad gonna happen. And if you did have these concerns that you said Dave didn't listen to where where are they?

I mean, I know that there were concerns but like but where they brought up the Dave I didn't see it brought up there without you could put on the hot seat right then and everyone's gonna watch that any questions Yeah, exactly. Yes everybody. Do you have any questions? On the other hand Pat tried to play got you with him Yeah, what was that? I can't remember he he brought the monetization Which at the end of the day only hurts that he was like playing gotcha with Dave like oh I see you didn't monetize them. Why well at the end of the day? Hiller calls me and says hey dude when you don't monetize him Google doesn't push him to as many people because then they don't make

Money off him. So it's only hurting the athletes. It wasn't talking safety I mean, that's my well And then the other thing he said is why don't you go to other events and watch them and Dave's like, Hey, man, we've thrown so many events of our fucking own. I've seen fucking hundreds of hundreds of events. But but I think Angelo and you already talked about this. Pat doesn't even have his level one. Yeah. So he should even remember what the CrossFit tour was.

Look at you Trish Saxon $ dollar 99 for your, to share your skincare regimen. Sheesh. You should have seen me 10 years ago. You even soap Saxon. What you so I mean, I use shampoo, but that's it. It's not like I said here and I'm like, no. Yeah. Yeah. Most men, most healthy men don't use soap. I just figured that out. Andrew doesn't even own soap, he told me. I have to suds the ass or else I'll have just so many dingleberries. I'll be fucking crazy. Destroy the sheets. It's disgusting.

It just is what it is, dude. It's fucking 52-year-old Armenian, man. Whitney Davis, so you think Dave would cut out an athlete asking about safety because it wasn't live You have no idea who Dave is then he doesn't give a fuck. I don't get that meaning Commenting that because his videos weren't live meant that he cut him up No I think there was only one video that was cut there were there was two or three videos were cut one thing He admitted that him and T had talked about,

he cut because he didn't want it to be shown. And then the other, only other times he cut was when he had a delivery to the ranch and he learned how to pause his show and then go get the delivery and come back. Dude, the guy can barely use YouTube. He ain't cutting shit. If you think that he cut out Brent asking about safety things

in there or Brent or Pat asking about safety stuff in their video, and Brent or Pat haven't brought it up yet, you're crazy. If you don't think that wouldn't have been in the initial post, you're crazy. If you don't think it would have came out before the games, you're crazy. Do you find it difficult to make sense of what the PFAA... what they really want? Do you find it difficult? I've had conversations with them on wanting to create, like I heard you guys talk about it yesterday, like a movement library. Yes, they've had conversations about things like that.

They have had productive conversations. Like I said, I want this all to be facts. like they have had productive conversations. Like I'm not like, like I said, I want this all to be facts. Like they have had some productive conversations on things that I can see that they want to move forward. But like a recent thing that they talked about was where a judge should be standing on every single movement.

Like there's just a lot of little things that I'm like, guys, like, is that really where we need to be putting our time and effort? Like if CrossFit was putting this time and effort in that like You know what I mean? Like we would get nowhere, you know Yeah, and I will say that I had it I was on the phone with Brent and I said this before we were done talking I said hey Brent

I know you and I disagree on a lot of things and I said I actually really enjoy Disagreeing with people and I do think it brings the best ideas to the table So I want to be involved any way I can be. And anytime you guys have these, you know, whatever you want to call in these breakout sessions or these video calls, I want to be involved as much as possible because I don't think you and I see eye to eye

on a lot of these issues. And I think, and I think you guys need, I think we need that. Like I, I really want to be able to disagree with somebody. And, and I, I'll be, I want to be able to disagree with somebody and I want to be able to bring up things that I think are important and that need to be said and I want them to say, hey, no, this is why we're not doing that or this is why we shouldn't do that. And maybe they're right. And I'll be the first person to say, yeah, you're right. We shouldn't do that now.

I didn't see it from a perspective or maybe hopefully they can see it from my perspective and say, okay, yeah, I never thought about that. I do think that's a good idea. Yeah, like I would love for us all to get on this phone call so that the public can hear, like bring them on. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know, I just want to make sure, for me, I want to make sure everybody understands what's going on and the facts that are being out there.

And let's have an open conversation, you know? And let's just agree. And not just an Instagram post and ghost and then let and let you kind of let up people, you know, just talk about it. And I don't want to like it's not like a matter of just sitting here. Like of course you can sit there and have a one on one call with somebody and be like, Oh yeah, well, you know, I talked to you about this. I talked to you about that, but nobody else knows that.

So like if you're going to make that public, let's throw it all out there. Yeah. Did you were you guys on the email that went out that Andrew Hiller ended up posting that the PFA sent out which one did he post he posted one that went out go ahead yeah okay you got yeah yeah so that thing so like that thing doesn't well I'll get back to that a second has does the PFA send out any emails for Brex best practices before events Like do you get something before the games that says okay guys? Make sure you show up to Texas two weeks early and acclimate to the heat here are the locations

We recommend you do the swim by the way, make sure you use this suntan lotion You're gonna be running with your cap put it here here, bring Listerine, like do they do anything that's... Like that? Yeah, do they do anything like that? There's conversations that were had on like yeah some safety and like heat, but it was more, I would say a lot of it was more of like the conversations from CrossFit to the PFA and we were just looped in on it. fit to the PFA and we were just looped in on it.

So like you'll go to an Instagram account and it will show you… it will show you like there's Instagram accounts how to catch animals. Have you ever seen those? And it has like 3 million followers and it shows how to dig a hole and trick birds to fall into the hole or how to catch a frog. Or like it's just this Instagram account showing you how to survive. Or I saw one this other… yesterday it's women who are size 2x to 5x who want to go to Disneyland a lot and it tells you They have shitloads of followers and it tells you what you need to do if you're obese and you want to go to Disneyland like eat this use this lotion wear these shoes and I'm just thinking to myself

Like that's I have a strong opinion that that's where they should be starting in order to add value to, to, to, to gather you guys up to be like, wow, this is a really valuable resource for us. And once we have these guys on board, I mean, doesn't that seem like the way it's, I mean, that's how CrossFit started. The workouts were given out free on the website, the videos were given out free on the website. Nobody knows that. Like that's the thing. And I think this is where we have to keep things in mind is like a lot

Of these athletes weren't around from the beginning And a lot of these guys came under the scene in 2014 15, you know Like like people don't like it's kind of common sense though, right? If you want to get people together give them something that they value and then they'll and they'll come to the watering hole They go home fill it with water and people will come to it. Right, well I mean, you know, I spoke to this on something earlier whenever I said games athletes should have their level one

and they're like, well why? And I mean, if you look back in 2000, I wanna say it was 2001, Greg Glassman referred to the pegboard and every home gym should have a pegboard. And then all of a sudden, you know, a pegboard comes up and he's like, this is stupid, like we should have this. Like, you know, you could say that,

oh, that was unsafe. Somebody could have hit X, Y, Z. But like, if you actually understood the methodology and what Greg Glassman was trying to get across, like, you would understand that. But like, people don't want to understand the methodology and why you're doing what you're doing. Call or hi.

So, question for, actually, the whole crew. And bear with me. Caleb too? Caleb too? Yeah, he might add some insight. All right. So I have a profit. I've been a president member.

Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. My shitty phone's popping. Hold on. Hold on. I can't stand that shit. Hold on. Hold on. Everyone be cool. Angela, twist your mustache or something. Keep everyone in

Oh, yeah. Got it. Uh, okay. Caller, go ahead. We can wait. Go ahead, Caller. Um, and I sit on two HOA boards. So, you know, I live in property two communities and I sit on both of those boards. I'm curious as to has anybody who's been involved seen the bylaws of the PFAA? Cause I got about an hour into the podcast with Pedro.

They talked about being an official nonprofit and as athletes, 79 of y'all who are vested in this process, technically y'all should have voting rights. And so like their ability to make these decisions, my assumption would be there should be some type of official voting process, and that should be clearly outlined on the bylaws that they wrote when they became a nonprofit. And it just seems like the whole group of them are just making decisions without the interest or without getting y'all's opinions if y'all are coming on this show So I'd be curious as to what those say. I mean that's an adult has entered the room

That's that's a motion for those guys. I mean clearly Like so are you saying you haven't seen any bylaws? that's I've made this joke that that the PFA I've made this joke that the PFA just lives in a drawer in fucking Brent's office, even though I think it does. It's just a Manila folder in a drawer. That's the way it appears.

Yeah. Yeah, that's very... You're an Instagram handle. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I mean, because... It's an Instagram handle. I've been... on the board that I'm on, We've literally been on one where we've had to fire people. We've had to fire landscapers and replace people

who are on the board. And those type of decisions cannot be made with only the seven people who sit on the board. You have to have the rest of the people who are in the community who have a vested interest, whether or not they sit on the board or not, they have to vote by either sending in a proxy or going to the annual meeting. Well, that's the problem.

We have to find this out. Yeah, that's crazy. There's so many people like, okay, should agents and coaches be allowed to make those decisions? Or should it be athletes? And that's what should be written up when they develop this. So this wouldn't become an issue. Yeah, to me it seems more like a movement that's trying to occur than an actual like logical thinking. It takes us back to agenda. It takes us back to what their agenda is. Yeah, exactly. If you say it, you speak, if you represent all the athletes, why wouldn't? Yeah, as soon as you get your invitation for the CrossFit Games, maybe the PFAA has the mailing

list of everyone who got their invitation. And then now that's their mailing list, so like, when they want to send out stuff like this, they go, okay, for the next year, these are the people we're going to ask about these things because they're the athletes. If they had an attorney drop the demands, why didn't they have one do one for the bylaws? And maybe they have bylaws. Who knows? By the way, Caleb, Caleb would help. Yeah.

And Caleb did help that comment. He said it's just an Instagram account was brilliant. Hey, Colby Steven says I haven't oh I'm open-minded I've never heard anyone say that about me everybody bye bye all right uh PFA demands Noah gets his minute back I don't know if that's true. I might hear say, you missed a Barry super chat about Noah. Okay, well, couldn't you have written it in there? Or if I, I was like, Caleb, find that. Caleb, you're on.

There's a button you can push, I think, that shows you all the, thoughts on Noah after watching the Marco video. I don't think you guys, have you guys seen, you saw the Marco video? I haven't seen it. Yeah. You're in it. He talks about you, Angela, not by name, but it's obviously you. Yeah, we well we talked a lot. So I mean, I don't care. He could he could have said my name if you wanted to maybe you want to be professional and not and not use my name. I don't care. It wouldn't upset me. Unless he talks shit about me, then he can't say

my name. Before you before you guys say about Noah, if you're going to say anything about Noah, so I'm really confused on that situation. I originally thought that the minute was to honor Lazar Jukic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, then I heard, then I heard, and then I'll give Florida sex and then I heard that the, that the minute wasn't to honor land, Lazar Jukic, but it was to protest CrossFit not doing a long enough tribute to Lazar and that the two got conflated and boy that I mean, I don't even know if it fucking matters, but what a fucking mess Angela I'm sure you can speak to that more the only thing

They like yeah I think it's hard to cast judgment on anyone in those moments because there was so much that people didn't know what to do So like people did something I don't know like yeah, that's why I think it's just it's and here's the thing. It's so different when you have a team because you could easily have people that want to do something and people that don't want to do something. I think for individuals, it's a little easier. It's like wrestling. It's an individualized sport. Like you go out there and you got your own map.

But when you're on a team, it's completely different. Everyone carries their emotions differently. So I think it's hard to judge anyone that. Like on a team, because who knows what was going on between that team. Yeah, I can give the play-by-play of everything that happened. And I just want to do it one time, because I think there's a lot of misconception on what happened.

Noah asked, Noah brought the whole group together as in the last heat of the teams together and said, hey, a couple of us have decided that we're gonna take a minute off at the beginning of this event and to honor Lazar. You don't have to say if you wanna do it or not, but just to let you know that some of us are gonna do it and we are going to see.

This is exactly what happened. We are going to see if we can get our time back. Dave was there and he says, he said, I don't know if I can do that, but I'll see what I can do. It's exactly what he said. And then we broke out. No one said, yeah, I'm doing that. Yeah, I'm doing that. It was just we all broke out and you were to go to your team and say, hey, do you guys want to do that? But, you know, what do you guys think? What do you guys think? Do you want to do it? And my team,

we look at each other, we say, we don't feel like we want to do that at this moment. So we went out there and we started the event. It wasn't like, Hey, we're all going to do it. And I said, Hey, Noah, you know, fuck you. I'm not doing that. Like we didn't do that. It wasn't like that at all. And he would say the same thing that it wasn't, it was not us trying to get a headstart on anybody. So I've heard both sides of that. It was, it was, hey guys, some of us are going to do this. You don't have to if you don't want to.

And then we broke out and we went out there and we started the event. That's exactly what happened. Of course, Sandra's husband called you a fucking loser. I'll confirm or deny that. He, we did have a conversation and he apologized afterwards. Oh, that's nice. Good. I like, I like him and Carr. They're wily though. Carr's a handful.

Yeah. She's a fucking handful. Um, uh, here's the thing. When you take a minute in front of a crowd that cheers for you, you're telling the crowd that you're sacrificing something. Yeah, I don't know what the I don't know if there's an agenda behind that or not. I'm just taking a face value that took a minute off. He that's what he said.

That's what Noah said. Yeah, yeah, and I don't have a problem. But when you sacrifice something publicly, right, like you throw a baby into the like, like, you're gonna throw a baby into the volcano, like you're going to throw a baby into the volcano so that the gods will then pour rain on your crops. And everyone sees it. You don't then fucking turn around and fucking grab a plastic baby and throw it in the fucking thing and then fucking be like, Hey, I didn't really do it. Yeah. So that's, so that's just where his it got weird for him. I fucking know he's a great dude. Love Noah.

But then to ask for the minute back is just really weird because then it's it's it's WWE. It's a fake sacrifice. That's I mean, it is for me it was just in it. I don't I I know or I don't know. I I don't feel though that he he meant it to be a dig towards us almost. But that's how it felt because we went out and we started the event. We you know, we were told maybe you get the minute back Maybe you don't we're like, okay. Well, we're not worrying about it. That's not how how this just not what we're gonna do for our my Team we just didn't want to do that And then when they say they want to get the minute back We're like well then basically and we caught a lot of shit for that. So basically everyone like fuck the mayhem guys

Yeah, yeah we shit for that. So basically, everyone like fuck the mayhem guys. Yeah, yeah, we got a lot of shit for that. Not not necessarily from people in the back, but just like, you know, really on social media and stuff. And it means nothing. It doesn't bother me or anything. I'm just saying like, okay, so we go out there and we look like assholes because we start the event. And it looks like all these guys are cheaters trying to get head start and everyone everyone else is trying to honor

him. And you know, these guys obviously don't care about him. But that's not at all what happened. We just started it. We didn't know that it was an agreed upon thing. We were just doing what we thought was right in the moment. They were doing what they thought was right in the moment. And then basically, you know, I don't think he knew that we were catching a bunch of shit for it, but yeah,

we caught a bunch of shit for it. And now we look like, we look like assholes because we went out there and no one and no one else did so that's the part I didn't like personally. I just didn't like it that you guys all did she couldn't basically what it is it was wishy washy and it's not known at all because he's not a leader but it needed to be either all you guys did it or didn't do it because the fucking pans fans fucking paid for you guys to compete.

Yeah. They should have fucking thrown tomatoes. I mean that is what they paid for. They paid to what fucking watch. Yeah, they should have fucking thrown tomatoes. I mean, that is what they paid for. They paid to what fucking watch. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I wonder if they ever talked to the athletes about that. Do they ever? I've never heard that the games maybe they need to start doing that. Do they ever say that to you guys? Saxon? They get all you guys together. I've never heard that. And then like, hey, listen,

guys, I know you're here to compete to be the fittest people in the world. But also you need to know this and you need to sign this piece of paper that you're going to fucking like be the fittest people in the world, but also you need to know this and you need to sign this piece of paper that you're going to fucking like try your fucking hardest people paid money to fucking see you. Don't throw the fucking event. To be honest. I mean, I think, I think for a lot of the individuals, like they went out there to compete. Yeah. Like, I mean, I went out there to compete. Doesn't mean it was easy.

I mean, we went out there that first day and you kind of feel guilty competing because of everything that's going on, but like you're still competing to win. Like that's and I think I'm sure that that's what a lot of athletes felt like. I mean, when I was on the start, I was like, shoot, what happens if no one goes and I'm the only one like, do you know what I know? What is I'll tell you what it's like. It's weird. It's really weird. Only team in your heat.

If you want to take a minute off, like why not do it once you finish the workout before standing on the finish mat? Like you know what I mean? That would have been a good plan. That would have been a good plan. I don't know. I just think it was it was awkward for a lot of people and like, what are you like? I would say everybody pretty much went out there and gave it their best.

And if you didn't feel like you could, you didn't. Yeah. You know, let me ask you a hard question. Saxon. I love hard questions. Tell me, next year there's no prize money, zero prize money. Um, do you still try to compete at the games yeah yeah i mean i mean i got into this wasn't for the money you know it wasn't for a platform it wasn't for instagram wasn't even around i remember i convinced scott i said bro you need to get an instagram if you're going to the games he's like what's the instagram yeah this is this is this will be a great question for

Saxon because I, me and, uh, my teammate Sam had these classes question for each other before the games said, so if I could, if I told you that you were going to win the CrossFit games, all you had to do is take out a loan. How, like, and you obviously, I mean, maybe you get money from the games, but how big of a loan do you take out my, I said, if like, if I'm going to win the games, I'll take out a loan, like half a million dollars, maybe you get money from the games, but how big of a loan do you take out my I said if like If I'm gonna win the games, I'll take out a loan like half a million dollars, maybe a million dollars I don't care. I'll pay it off for the rest of my life

I get down in the games like it's not about the money at all Like it's just it's it's it's something that you can't put into words Like you're just like I want that so bad. You have no idea Yeah Yeah, and and don't get me wrong I'm not opposed to the athletes being fucking absolutely fucking filthy rich. Like that would be fucking awesome. I'm like, fuck man. I've done as much as anyone to promote the games. But it is interesting. Going back to what Saxon was saying before there's something that we've strayed away from That I think some people think we can stray away from but I'm pretty sure we can't I think

We stray away from it I'm sure you can you can speak to this pretty well like if you go back and you look when you did behind the scenes or like anyone did a documentary from 2012 to 2015 I would say 15 was probably the last year like you saw this this 2012 to 2015, I would say 15 was probably the last year. Like you saw this, the athletes were very united with each other. And it was more of like kind of playful and fun. And that you could tell that they all loved what they were doing. You didn't see too much like stress on the athletes,

but like, I'm sure if you went back, anytime I would say from 2000, I would save you on that point, but for me from 2018 to like current day, you don't see you don't see that anymore. You just see more of like athletes are out the wind and that's fine. That's fine. I mean, that's if that's what they need to do, that's what they need to do. But like you see less stories of athletes and more like personality of who they are. And I think that that just comes through like the social media and the finances. Like I would be curious to see if you were to take all the

finances away from it. Like what would you see with the athletes? You know what I mean? Like it would look a lot different with them going on the floor. It would look a lot different with them in the warmup area. Like you would actually see them enjoying themselves and having a good time. And I like, do you really get to see that as much? Like, I mean, I'm asking

you this one, like, dude, have you seen a change in the athletes from when you first started doing that stuff to present day? Yeah, the coolest thing about the games this year, absolutely coolest was Jason Hopper, Dallin Pepper and James Bragg's relationship. That was like absolutely one of the coolest fucking things. And when Hopper dragged Dallin to just rip him on fucking TV, that was fucking crazy. And you know, if there were other people, and they're not, they're not exclusive either. They're not like all from the same training camp. And anyone who wanted could jump into that fuckery.

You know what I mean? If Colton was there, they would have tormented him. You know what I mean? If Colton was there, they would have tormented him. You know what I mean? So yeah, it's, what's also interesting though, along the line is it's been traditionally more the men. You know, I've seen Annie and Katrin hang out quite a bit together and they have fun,

but traditionally Sam Briggs was cool. Becca Voight was cool as shit. You know what I mean? Valerie Vogel, some of the old school, they would, you know, chop it up. Christian Clever chopped it up. But for the most part, the boys chopped it up way more. You know what I mean? And you can see it in people like you or Cole Sager, or the people who are just like so easy to approach, right? Like, like they have those old, Travis Mayer. I mean, his whole camp is fucking with stand-up routine, you know what I mean? Between him and Roel Haj and yeah, and you know who is cool as fuck?

Who's pretty fucking laid-back for how stressful shit is? Brooke Wells and Marconi. Yeah. Like just fucking hanging, man. Like even during warm-up, it's serious as a heart attack, but they're fucking cool. Will Morad, but they I mean brooke was stoked She had will more at and Marconi He's cool as shit and she had those two fucking cool motherfuckers. They're cool, dude. Yeah, it was cool

We'll just we'll just stand there and smiles All right. So, so, uh, in a nutshell, as we come to the 90 minute mark, uh, you don't want to see the community to be torn apart. Uh, you're not cool with them asking for Dave to step down. You, you, you enjoy, uh, I'm kind of lumping both of you together. You enjoy talking, you guys enjoy talking to Fikowski. You enjoy the differences that you have, you believe that there's room for improvement, although you have no complaints about too hard

of workouts or safety or any long-going, this thing that they won't talk about that they just keep pointing out as abstractions, wanting change, wanting change, like it's a part of the Kamala Harris fucking campaign. But you're open to it, you're totally open to it, and you want to be a part of it, and you want to move the sport forward. But also, you agree that, hey, let's not overvalue ourselves. We have a lot of influence here, but let's make sure we stay in our lane of fucking influence. Yeah, pretty much. And stop going after people when you don't know the facts.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, you know, I think it's personal. You've convinced me it's personal. You just convinced me it's like, like I was always on the fence. I didn't want to say it out loud, but they're they're they're Dave haters. Yeah, they got their purse. They got their purse. You know what? Even when you can speak this to Angelo, even when Rich and Dave had problems, Rich didn't go after fucking Dave. Yeah. Like he didn't like he didn't go after him. And yeah, they think I don't ever remember Fraser really going after Dave either, to be honest. And their shit was fucking is contentious as fuck.

Well, that's the thing that like about about, you know, going after Dave, whatever, like, does never does everyone when they watch our podcast is I was talking about like, oh, like, we don't think they should kick Dave out, whatever. Do they not remember three months ago when Rich and Dave had to do a sit down podcast together because they had so much beef? Like, I mean, obviously like-

How hard is that stirring that up? Like, obviously they, you know, obviously they don't just like, we don't blindly support whatever Dave thinks. Like we just support this in this aspect. Like I'm not gonna blindly support whatever Dave thinks like, we just we just support this in this in this aspect. Like, I'm not gonna blindly support anybody. All right. I think that clip that Angelo at the 121 mark could go viral, or just where you were you explain like the starting thing. I want to say one more thing to that. Saxon

brought up that he respects the athletes who pulled out for like sticking to it to their whatever that they thought was right I keep hearing that people talk shit to the athletes who pulled out. I don't ever remember anyone talking shit about them I haven't I mean I live in my own Yeah, I don't remember I we didn't talk any shit about, uh, Laura on this podcast or Jeff Adler or any of those people, uh, for pulling out. We've had some curious, you know, just like drama soap opera wonderings, like what happened with Gabby and Kristoff since Kristoff left. And I, and I also do think that if you want to break down why they left into

its simplest form, I think all of the athletes came there to participate. And I think that's what they had in their mind. I'm there to participate, whether it's to win or get on podium, but they went there and those were the thoughts in their head. And then this other thought entered Jeff and Laura's head. I don't know what the thought is, but that thought stopped them from the participating. And I don't think that that's, I think that's part of the CrossFit Games is to win the CrossFit Games is you have to push through all the thoughts.

Yeah. And everybody has those thoughts. I don't care what anyone says. They weren't able to push through those thoughts. I don't, I don't, tons of people have pulled out over the years. We've seen Annie pull out, but for whatever reason, and fair enough, Lazar died. They didn't, whatever thought that they had enter caused them to pull out. That's it. Yeah. We have this conversation at, I actually have had this conversation with like a lot of the new guys at work. Like when they come there, I try to be as open as possible and say, hey, this job is not for everyone. If it's not for you, then you can leave. And it's not like, I'm not trying to take a dig at them.

Like, oh no, you're not tough enough. You can't handle it. Like, no, the way your brain wires this stuff together, you can't handle it. You actually cannot handle it. And that's fine. It's just not for everyone. Like, it's just certain people handle stuff differently.

And like, you know, like what, whatever happened with Laura, who knows? Like it just the way that it, she didn't sit well with her. She didn't feel like she wanted to continue. So she, she pulled out. So, and, and other people felt like they wanted to stay and they wanted to stay. Like it's just different people handle it in different ways.

Well, my distinction is, is some people would say they stuck to their values, they stuck to their morals. And what I'm saying is that's the 50,000 foot view. The 100,000 foot view is you had a thought. Yeah. Do you get what I'm saying? It's still a thought and that thought came in, maybe it came in as a moral, maybe it came in as a value.

But like the fact that I don't fucking tolerate pedophiles, I can call morals and values all day, but before it's morals and values. I fucking thought yeah. Yeah Call her hi Hello bring us home caller four six nine want me to give a phone number on there It's raining over here. So my connection's kind of poor. I'm sorry. But Angela, I was going to,

I was going to kind of piggyback on what you said. I'm also a, as well. So you're also a what? A fireman, a firefighter. So I've had to have a lot of similar conversations with guys coming to the fire service. And, you know, first I do that because it's always good to be an advocate and a teacher because a lot of people, I think, want to get in form of service and they really don't know what that looks like.

You know, they have an idea of what they think it is and they had a real hard cut out for it to begin with. And thank you for doing that. I think that what you and kind of what you even talked about as well Simone is everybody else processes emotions and life situations a little bit differently than others and that just by all the things that you've seen in regards to Lazar's death with all the podcast and all the shit talking and all the back and forth and hearing one story and then hearing this and like a lot of like mis-insured information is like you're just you're getting so different examples of

people process emotions differently but I think in the case of Noah you're looking at somebody who differently. But I think in the case of Noah, you're looking at somebody who is just very loud and very vocal. You know, if you look at his media, you know, he's always the person to post when something big happens in the community. He's got a very following, a lot of people listen to him. He's respected in the community, which he seems like a great dude. But sometimes like, we all know Noah, like I'm sure you all do from an athlete perspective, from a fan perspective, like he's a very emotional dude. And I just think that there's a certain type of person that needs to be in the PFAA. And I'm not trying to stir the pot or, you know, talk shit about Noah, but I think that, you know,

Noah being that emotionally loud person would be a good fit for the community. And from a leadership perspective, you have to have somebody like Marco is, who is grounded, who can be open and listen and see both sides, but at the same time, like he is not going to be overly emotional. And, you know, let his own emotions or his own beliefs, you know, influence, you know his actions or his decisions That's really what the PFA needs to look into as far as like if they have any additions Are people like yourself who are very level-headed who see both sides who are willing to listen to both sides But you are able to process those emotions and deal with those hard times the conversations

To you know be able to get crossfit head-to-head direction. Cool, thank you dude, thank you for your service. How are you guys on time? I'm great, fine. Okay, let me ask you this. So I spoke to an athlete, spoke to shitloads of athletes back there and One of the athletes told me Just in candidly that they post what they think that they're supposed to post that what people want to see I Couldn't fucking believe that That actually came out of their fucking mouth. Yeah, and then someone's like, I don't know if it's Hiller

But they slapped me around and they're basically like, what are you fucking retarded? That's how they fucking all are. I definitely do not post what people want me to post. But do you think that that's accurate? Do you think that there's a handful of people out there, like you reach a certain level, you cross over the threshold of 500,000 followers and you're like, you're trying to manage the herd instead of be yourself. And that's why people don't want to use their influence because they're different for like someone like me and Angela where we just set our camera up and we take our videos of our lifts or gymnastics or something like that.

Like, I had a camera person that followed me around. But like, if I did have someone like that, I would wanna show more like authenticity of like getting people their first muscle up, you know, like training with people on Sundays and then affiliate, like more of like that stuff, but like that's just, it's the stuff that I'm passionate about is just hard to capture for me. I mean, that's just speaking on for me.

It's just more challenging to do and to like set a camera up and do that. Like that's just hard. Like, here's the thing. Let's say Noah went hunting and he shot a bear. There's no fucking way he's posting it and I apologize Noah if I'm mischaracterizing you but I feel pretty confident about that. I don't think a lot of people would.

Well right but but Rich did it and it cold the herd right. Yeah I think he lost 50,000 followers in a day. Uh, but, but if he wanted to keep those followers, he would have, he would have shown himself like setting the bear free out of a bear trap. Yeah. I think, I don't know who said this to, who said this to Rich, but it's like, when you post more stuff about there's a, you're going to piss off. I mean, everyone knows you're going to piss about 50% 50% is gonna love you.

And you'd rather just have that 50% love you. Like, we know absolutely love you. What's your percent of followers that like your stuff? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah. You could have 100,000 followers and get 600 likes. I've been there. But like, are you really posting the right stuff? Like now, even if that means picking a side or whatever that is, you know, I think it's important to just be more authentic to who you are. But like, for me, I don't know, I just feel like a lot

of the stuff that I do, I like don't like it's more of my second nature to just go and do things like that. It's not a matter of like setting the camera up and do that. Like if I had like, you know, savant, you're good with the camera, like, Hey, come out for a weekend and like, come see what a day in the life is like, you know, you would see a little more of that and you'd be able to post that kind of stuff, but like in reality, like that's not happening. You know what I mean? Like it's just more challenging. I was going down the line of, I think athletes who are trying to tend to the,

to the herd, they lose themselves. Yeah. And I think you see it in them. I think they're burdened by the fact that they're trying to make 750,000 people happy. And I think that's why they go crazy. That is why they go bat shit crazy. I think it's like the core tenant of what causes social media mental illness, they're trying to fucking manage the fucking herd. And you cannot with a million people you cannot Do you think it's a money thing? Do you think it's a money thing or a popularity?

so I think when you uh Not even at either of those so nefarious just you don't I mean there Do you know there's this point when I don't know for how old you guys were? I always wasn't till I was 34, but you gotta be like fuck you to your parents Like no matter how great they are, you have to fucking tear the bandaid off. You know what I mean? You have to make like some sort of break

that's different from a decision they would want you to make and you're fucking free, you're on your own. You know what I mean? And I don't think most of the athletes have even come close to that place in their life. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Like you drop to one knee and you look up to the heavens

and you say, God, why me? You know what I mean? Like that, and if you have, you know what I mean? Like you drop to one knee and you look up to the heavens and you say, God, why me? You know what I mean? Like that. And if you have, you know, that we were so lucky to have Rich as one of the early champions because he had fucked up shit happen in his life and fucking the bandaid had been torn off a couple times and fucking, you know, he was clearly had looked up

to the heavens and like, what the fuck's going on? But you get these athletes who've been doing CrossFit since they're 16 and they really do think that they are those followers like they're legitimately confused I just think they're managing the herd and then maybe it gets conflated with money and But they actually they're trying to man and dude you'll go fucking nuts doing that. Yeah What if they what if they is everyone gonna find out you wipe from back to front and like, you know what I mean?

like yeah, I don't but I't, and I struggle with that so much because like, what, what, there's nothing there's, there's really nothing in it. You know, like, like at the end of the day, at the end of the day, why, if you are more authentic, it ends up working out better. Like if you're just blatantly authentic, like I said, you, you may not have that half a million or whatever followers You may boil down to a hundred thousand but that hundred thousand is gonna be loyal like they like, you know I don't you you attract the crowd that you should attract crowd that you really want like you shouldn't just be like trying to

Look good to everybody be appealing to everybody Why would you not just want like a certain group of people that you agree with and they they really like your Stuff like that's the people you that's the people you're actually gonna influence and the time went in at Lazar's death That's the time if you've drawn a box around yourself You don't want that box around you because you want to be fucking free. We I have a friend who whose parents said to them Why haven't you posted anything about Lazar's death? And my friend said, because I don't know, because I just haven't. I don't know what to post.

And they're like, well, if you don't post something, people, what are people going to think? And I was like, holy fuck, your fucking mom told you that? What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah, so it's anyway, it's a it's a it's a that's that's part of the that's part of the world we're into. Right. that What a treat. What a fucking good. What a treat. I did. That wasn't what's the saying that wasn't on my bingo card for 2024 and a show with Angelo and Saxon. All right. You guys are the shit.

Saxon, thank you for coming in and being so powerful, articulate. Angelo, thank you for just being Angelo. No problem. All right, guys. Have a good night. You too. Ciao Are we gonna you guys want to talk off stage or are you guys going? No, I'm good You're just leaving now. I you want to talk chat. Okay, fine. We'll chat Okay, cuz I was gonna kick these fuck. I was gonna kick you guys off and then

Okay, guys, I love you guys. See you guys tomorrow morning. Andrea Wilson is a CrossFit Games competitor competing in San Antonio from September 19th to 22nd. She will be on tomorrow morning. See you guys later. Bye bye.