The Sevan Podcast - They are Harvesting YOUR DATA | Tom Daly Founder of mePrism

Episode Date: April 28, 2024

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Went to the bathroom. Bathroom? No. Dude, I woke up this morning to just crazy tornado stories crazy right yeah wild and it was it was the shattuck in close worst tornado in nebraska history yeah it was it was probably i mean how could it get worse than how bad it's been i don't know i don't know it was quite a few tornadoes touched down i think it was probably about 30 minutes from our from the shattuck and like a lot of neighborhoods just got

demolished basically and and you were saying that um your family's already out with chainsaws like helping people clean up absolutely yeah my so my brother-in-law and my wife and my father-in-law all went out with a big old trailer and a bunch of chainsaws and shit and now they're just cleaning up neighborhoods trying to get uh all the branches out of the way and try to clear some roads there are quite a few roads that have downed power lines on them so they couldn't get to them because of the we're waiting for like the electrical company to come by yeah shut off all the electricity so they can actually walk down them but some of the ones because if you touch one of those wires you're toast you're fucked yeah like dead toast dead toast for sure damn um is that normal or all is that normal like everyone in nebraska owns a chainsaw when

that happens just are there hundreds or thousands of people out with their chainsaws is that just like what you do definitely yeah so as soon as it started happening um i was getting text messages just from my unit and then from family just saying like hey we're going out once this is over um if you if you want to come with you can just hop in the truck and everybody everybody helps everybody yeah it's just a huge community thing so what so you're just driving down the street in your truck and then if you see a tree in the street everyone gets out and just starts working it absolutely yeah and then you carry the law the the logs just to the side of the road, the pieces.

Right. Yeah, sometimes you can just move them out of the road or just throw them in the trailer so that way you can get them totally out of the way. Eventually you can just cut them up and use them for firewood if you really want to. But if you don't have room, you just toss them off to the side and give them to the neighbors. So the point of it is to clear the road network so people can get emergency vehicles get to work just get the road network open again exactly a lot of the fire departments uh sent people out there and like they couldn't even get into some of the neighborhoods because of it was just completely blocked it's great i saw some of the uh i saw that Instagram link someone sent and it's,

it's always amazing to me. The audio when, when you hear that of, of what people first see a tornado. I chose, I chased tornadoes for one summer with, with the, for the history channel.

Yeah, this, and I did it for three months and it was fucking wild and i remember this feeling this this if you listen to what this lady says as the tornado touches down it'll blow saying it she's like that's a tornado that's a tornado you know what i mean like she she's oh is that her roof is gone her roof was gone yeah like the the stairwell complete like it just goes it just goes all the way to the sky. God damn. You just see through portions of the house.

And for people who don't know, it's not just the tornado. On the backs, this thing starts creating these weird weather patterns. And so there's stuff going on in the front of the tornado and the back of the tornado that's unique to tornadoes. I think the backside of a tornado, after after it passes it just throws crazy hail as i recall and it will throw like you won't even believe you won't even believe the stuff that's coming out of the sky from the back of a tornado it is absolutely nuts and by the back i don't even mean you i don't even have to be that close i'm talking like a mile behind it it's throw it'll be throwing baseball sized chunks of ice just destroying shit flattening shit ruining whole car lots destroying neighborhoods with destroying all the cars in the neighborhood yeah it's pretty insane um man is anyone dead

um not that i've heard of joe westerlin sent me some pictures and he was just showing me just neighborhoods just gone he sent me a picture this morning he was just showing me just neighborhoods just gone. He sent me a picture this morning. He's like, look at this house. I said, what house? Exactly, yeah. I'm like, what, where? He's like, the picture didn't come through?

I'm like, no, I just don't see a house. Right. Yeah, it's just decimated. God, if after our guest comes on, Joe told me a wild story this morning made me want to throw up about the tornado damn dude isn't it weird that one that like some homes are decimated and some get saved i really don't understand um how that works me either one of my uh one of the guys i work with he's she sent us a picture maybe a hundred yards from his apartment yeah the completely decimated

neighborhood like just that far off it's like it's insane wild man oh man I think there I think an affiliate owner had his house just completely leveled

I'm going to put oh oh, I've been spelling Tom's name wrong. All right. Well, we can fix that. Look how we spelled it. Look how he spells it. Tom, what's up, dude? Hey, good morning. Hey, thanks for coming on. Sorry I'm a couple

of minutes late here. We're chill. The firewall did not like the well, anyway, we figured it out. Sorry, I'm a couple of minutes late here. We're chill. Firewall did not like the... Well, anyway, we figured it out. Do you have the correct spelling of your name, or do I have the correct spelling of your name? I seem to have added a consonant there. Oh, good.

It's actually a four-letter word, which is easy. I love it when it's someone else's fault. I love it when it's someone else's fault. I love it. Oh, and Caleb, I put the, I just wanted to put me, could you fix that too? I just wanted to say me prism.com. I don't know. I just copied and pasted. So I got an error too.

Tom, um, I met you through, uh, my cut, but By the way, that's Caleb over there. Hey, Caleb. Caleb's in a hotel room in an undisclosed location. Caleb is in the Air Force, and he's on a month training course. So normally he's in this really shitty house in Nebraska, but now he's just in a really shitty neighborhood in Wichita. Exactly right. And where are you, Tom?

I'm in Carlsbad. Oh, okay. Okay. Right down the road from me, like three hours down the road from me. Yeah, a quick spin down the five. Yeah, half an audio book away from me.

I'm in Santa Cruz, California. Right on. I found out Santa Cruz, California. Right on. Um, I, I found out about you through my cousin and he was telling me about me prism. And I thought, wow, uh, this is, this is really cool with the, with the founder of it. Come on. You are, you are the founder. I am. I am. Um, let me just make sure my, hopefully you guys can hear me. I'll attempt to tell people what Me Prism is, and then you'd be like, well, not exactly.

So there are these – you guys know when you go and someone calls you on the phone and you want to know whose phone number it is. So you paste the phone number into the browser, and then it starts showing you all these sites, and then you click on it, and it tells you whose phone number it is. So you paste the phone number into the browser and then it starts showing you all these sites and then you click on it and it tells you whose phone number it is. But then there's like 20 things you can't see. And it says for $29.99, you can start unlocking these things and find out if the person went to prison or if they're married or how much money they make. It starts like unlocking all of these things. Well, I guess those sites out there, there's a ton of them out there. And I didn't realize this. And they're're basically they're just places where that are scraping the internet for details about you and then they sell that information to the public i think it's even more sophisticated than that well tom will tell us about it but you can pay me prism and it's me prism.com to to go start up sending notices to these companies that you want to be pulled off of their

lists. There's probably a better word for it. There's probably like a jargon term for it there, whatever they're, I don't know. We'll find out a second. And then, and then me prism does that for you. And I did that. I signed up for it and I did that. And so it sent, I guess, letters or notices to all of these companies. And I can see now in real time who's been pulled off, who's been who who no longer has my information, who i can see um found 953 profiles oh so they nine uh scan 91 brokers out there that are involved in this process of scraping data found 53 that have information about me and then all of them have been uh requests have been sent by me prism to pull my name off and then 23 have been completed and 30 are in review and by the way before i'm gonna run this banner on the bottom we're very fortunate too tom said that he would give a, uh, I think this is right. If you use code seven now at the place, and I'll just let this run for a while. Um, I think you get $20 or 20% off the

process, right? 20% off. And thanks for, thanks for doing that. I love offering stuff to the listeners. Okay. So how, how off was I? What does me prism do? Or, and what are the bad guys do? Um, well, first of all, thanks for having me on here. And, and, uh, just so your, your, um, you know, your audience, um, is aware of this. You're, you're not an affiliate. You're just doing this for your, you know, for your audience. Right. Right. Asking me to pay you, which is important. Right. I don't get paid money. Um, you're not paying me money a hundred percent. You were just coming on and you said, Hey, we'll offer this to your listeners. I love offering stuff to the listeners. It's so cool. Yeah. And it's, it's not that we wouldn't have be happy to hire you as a,

as an affiliate. I just think it's important that, you know, when, when, um, uh, you know, it's like when, when Warren Buffett says, you know ask your barber if you need a haircut, what do you expect him to say? Of course, he's going to say, you could use a trim. Right. I'm here for you. If you have your credit card, you need a trim. That's right. I'd say your estimation of the problem is correct.

A couple of things I would say is in the US and globally, there's literally thousands of these companies are called data brokers. And data brokers are an important part of the digital economy. They do serve a purpose. When you think about how do you get your credit score? Well, that's basically a data broker. There's a handful of those. They're really big. They're highly regulated.

And they help banks make sure that they're not lending to people who can't pay or have as much money as they claim to have. Or even imaginary people, right? Or imaginary. So there's some element of fraud protection within the financial system, although a lot of that is actually done on the side of the banks. But anyway, so a handful of really big names that folks would know. LexisNexis. People have heard of Experian. People have heard of E banks. But anyway, so a handful of really big names that folks would know, LexisNexis, people have heard of Experian, people have heard of Epsilon, they may have heard of LiveRamp and Axiom. So those are really, really big companies. IPG is another. So these are multi-billion dollar

companies. They collect all kinds of data about people. Some of that data is, is regulated, like your financial information, if it's being used to, to, to generate a credit score, there's all sorts of rules around how, where that data can go, whether it can be shared outside of it, because it's really personal information, right? It's, it's, uh, it's who you are. It's, it's your financial information, your net worth, things like that. And so you can imagine it's obvious you'd want to make sure that that's secure. Okay. So beyond that though, the data broker market has thousands of other companies. And I would say 99% of them, most people have never heard of before,

because we don't have any, as a regular human being, we don't have any relationship or should have any relationship with Spokio or with ZoomInfo or with whitepages.com or texasarrestwarrants.com or peoplesearcher.com and on and on and on. We don't have relationships with those companies, but what do those companies do? Those data brokers- When you say we don't, you mean the citizens of America? Yeah. Or users of the internet? They're out there, but we don't have relationships with them.

Correct. Okay. So think of it like this. How does Facebook make money? Well, they run ads. So how they do that is they make lots and lots of money. They monitor our behavior online, which creates a portfolio of data about our behavior. It's very predictive, the kind of stuff we like, and it's really intended to make sure that we keep staring at Facebook, grab your attention. So how do they do that? Well, they take your data and they do things with the data.

So it's worth a lot of money. Now, okay, fine. I have a Facebook account. I get it. I'm not exactly sure I understand what they're doing with the data, but it's probably too much, but whatever. I kind of like Facebook or Twitter, whatever, but I have a relationship with that company. Last year, Meta made $131 billion just in ad revenue. Yeah. So that's kind of the whole game right there. So access to tons of people, using their data through a bunch of different mechanisms, you make a lot of money. And great. But at least I have a Facebook account. The company has a Facebook account. We do things on it.

There's some kind of communication, whatever. Is it worth the data surveillance? That's a different question. But there's no doubt. You're a known participant. You're a known participant. You're a known participant. Yes. Yes.

And I know what it is. I know who they are. And whether you're single and your address. And so they know. That's right. Okay. And so they're making money off of me, but I kind of like the service. Fine.

We'll figure that out. Be aware of that. The data brokers also make money by monetizing data. They do it in a, it's not a retail thing. It's not like lots of civilian customers out there, consumers that are customers out there, and they do something for them. And they kind of take your data and do the little data dance to make money on their side of things. We don't know who these customers are. I mean, we don't know who these companies are as regular people. What they do is they either buy data about us from other data brokers, like the big data brokers.

They scan public records for information about us, and then they buy other third-party sources of data to enrich that. So I have no relationship with those data brokers. I don't know who they are, but they are making money off of my data. In fact, what they're doing is they're literally making a portfolio of data about me and my family, and then they're selling it to whoever wants to buy it. And this is, you know, up until last week, anyone could buy this data really without any kind of restriction whatsoever. You could be a foreign, you could have a foreign IP address, and you could be just literally trying to buy the, you know, the personal information about people with security clearance or about the executive team, leadership team of the national champion

companies of the country. So this seems like a pretty dangerous sort of situation. Once you know what's in that data that we're talking about, and again, there's hundreds and hundreds of these, you start to realize that, you know, nothing good comes from this stuff being out there, at least for me as a human being. Maybe these companies are making a lot of money and they are, the data broker industry probably make about $300 billion this year. So they're making money from my asset, my data, my privacy, and I'm getting nothing. Yeah. So like these 93 companies that were scanned for my data through me prism in an aggregate, they, they generated 300 billion in revenue last year. The people search companies are a subset of that whole sector. So, you know, we're talking about of the thousands of data brokers that the, the ones that we're

addressing right now, it's in the we address the most highly the high profile ones that we're addressing right now, it's in the, um, we address the most highly, uh, the high profile ones that are literally just offering your individual data. Uh, that's a smaller subs about 200, um, two, 200 of those. So yeah, I want to ask you some questions. Why would I care? Um, I want to ask you some questions. Why would I care? So why would I care if someone is making money off of my data? Like, what do I care? Why would that be bad? I totally understand if you're a cop, you don't want that shit out there, right? Because someone asks you, you give someone a ticket, they get pissed at you, they find out your name, and then they start fucking with you. Right? They try to take out a credit card in your name. They're like, I'll teach you a lesson. But why do I care? I'm just a good dude who just stays at home all day and fiddles in the yard.

Well, that's a really good question. You know, you're a public figure. Yeah. Just from being on the show, you mean? Absolutely. Yeah. absolutely yeah that's a good point fuck my wife always tells me that can you stop telling people where you go after the show well you probably you probably don't need to because you know if somebody wanted to do you harm they could probably buy your geolocation from a a uh you know a data broker and um and your home address you can even do that they're collecting that shit so what what one of the reasons that that you know congress has been um getting more and more interested in this in this

very issue is that you know in a post-Dodd world, you know. What's Dodd? Department of Defense? No, the Supreme Court decision that basically abrogated Roe v. Wade. So what you have now is you have lots of people in Congress who are now, for whatever reason, they've been grappling with data privacy for 10 years, really since GDPR in Europe came out, which is the big privacy rule. Everyone's like, whoa, boy. Oh, you mean big tech isn't allowed to just steal all of our stuff and make money off of us, even if it's doing us harm? And oh, it's illegal now?

OK, in Europe? OK, fine. So that happened a long time over there. We've known Congressmen saying, yeah, there's probably something that needs to be dialed up here and sort of fixed. to be dialed up here and sort of fixed. When the Supreme Court went the other way on, on, on, on Roe v. Wade, suddenly there was this recognition that, wait a second, now we have, you know, state's attorney general who are talking about, well, is, you know, is, is, is, you know, is it, is an abortion? Is that something that we're supposed to be surveilling people about?

Like, again, I'm in a state where the state laws around abortion are more restrictive. Is it then okay for the attorney general to start subpoenaing conversations that suggest that maybe you were going to get an abortion, you got an abortion in that state. Okay. Well then law enforcement can just go into the data broker market and this includes attorney general, just buy location data about citizens. Hey, who actually drove over near Planned Parenthood? Okay. Well, let's go make sure that all those people are, that we're keeping an eye on them. And then maybe we should investigate that. So they can do that because they're purchasing the data and it's not illegal under the law this is insane right we have a we have a fourth amendment which protects us from illegal search and seizure i'm thinking also about like china buying the geolocation for all the people in the united states and studying our movement patterns and being like okay we're gonna bomb here

well they have that already at least for the next nine months through TikTok, but, but, but, but, but, but, but actually the, but away from the TikTok man, which is also an interesting issue given, given what's become a pretty suddenly, you know, a more proactive Congress around data privacy. But you're absolutely right. As of two weeks ago, it was perfectly legal for the Chinese military to literally just buy as much data about US citizens, literally from China with a foreign IP address and just fine, open an account at Spokio and buy everything you can. And not just there, all the geolocation websites and on and on. And the same can be said for U.S. law enforcement, right? So U.S. law enforcement, if they're interested in, you know, finding out whether you're, well, pick whatever

the thing is that the government thinks you might be doing that it doesn't like. You know, prior to the Internet of Things and the iPhone, frankly, they kind of had to get a warrant. Otherwise, there was, it's kind of just too much friction to surveil people. Now it's very, very easy. It's relatively inexpensive and data brokers do all the heavy lifting. They're doing all the data collection, all the privacy, hoovering up all this data about people and then selling it to anybody who wants to buy it. So who really wants to buy lots of privacy data about big slugs of people? Well, foreign adversaries

love to do that. Why wouldn't they? Cyber threat actors. I mean, there is an absolute party going on right now in cyber extortion. I don't know if you're following these things to get too grim on a- No, please, please. Before, well, I guess it's lunchtime for you right now. You're an early riser and all that. It's lunchtime for you right now. You're an early riser and all that. But the amount of sort of just general damage that can be done by these large cyber threat organizations is just, if you're not paying attention, start paying attention, you're going you're gonna be talking about when someone like i've heard of it recently someone like frees all the computers like in baltimore and then on the download baltimore has to pay some cyber fucking guy they don't even know where a million dollars to unlock

all the computers because they've all been frozen at the city of baltimore you're talking about stuff like that yeah yeah that shit's crazy like and there's a accusations were flying about the boat that actually crashed into the bridge that that was somehow um uh a cyber attack so you know we'll have to see what the the reporting on that as far as i've seen has been sounded like reporters hoping that there's something really really dicey to talk about i'm not sure that there's evidence that there's something really, really dicey to talk about. I'm not sure that there's evidence that that's, that's, uh, Oh, he froze. Did he freeze for you, Caleb? Am I, am I still freezing? He's good. He's good.

He's my back. Okay. I froze too. And that's what this is too, right? Tom, this wired magazine article, Jeffrey Epstein Island visit, visitors exposed by data broker. They figure out every single person who went to Epstein Island and where they were on the Island and which airport they flew from. i mean it's it's if you um this is a crazy article this is i mean look at that they know where like people when people are out in the water that's right now you know when you um you, we kind of realized that there are these larger, bolder, crazier cyber attacks on industry.

So you're a hospital in California, you're, you know, you're Scripps or something like that. or something like that. And your systems are locked up and you get a pop-up on the screen that says ALF-V or Black Cat or some other group like Scattered Spider has now taken over your company infrastructure and you have 12 hours to pay our ransom demand or we're going to for us to unfreeze your your system and you have to pay us a bunch of money or we're going to release all your patient data onto the onto the dark web. We're going to sell it. Damn. So when you're in a situation like that. Are there one of those happening at all times? Like, Is there one going on somewhere right now in the US? So not only are they happening all the time, but I don't think most people are kind of aware of the scale and scope of these. I know people want to hide them, right? Like if it happens to your business, like if it happens to Target, I know they want to hide it. It's always on the down

low, like you hear about it. So it's, there's another example of the, you know, the government sort of getting, waking up to some of this and, you know, regulation in the US, it's, it's always late to show up and then, you know, maybe they get it right, maybe they don't, maybe they overdo it, I don't know. But what we've seen now is the SEC requires companies, if it's a public company, you have to make a public announcement of a breach in a timely manner. It's material. In some instances, these things are wildly, wildly expensive. So UnitedHealthcare was most recently a tax... UnitedHealthcare is a...

This is like a national champion company. It's like top five S&P company. They make... Their revenue figures are huge. They probably made $40 billion last year. And their footprint incorporates most Americans' healthcare services. So according to the paper, they were attacked by one of these threat actors, have had to pay an extortion claim, probably because the calculation on their side was like,

listen, we, you know, if, if, if, you know, if this, if this attack is actually shutting down, providing services of some kind, now you're talking about, you know, life and death type stuff. So I'm sure they work with you to 152 million customers in the United States. That's a little more than half the country. I know, that's crazy. Oh my God. One in every three patients in the US

records pass through its system. They have 15 billion transactions. These fucking guys were hacked? Wow. And if you go down the line, AT&T was hacked recently. That breach alone looks like 15 million people and includes things like social security address, home address, phone number. Now, why do we care, really? So it sort of depends on the data. Um, it, it, it, um, it, it actually doesn't just depend on the data, the cyber there's, these are businesses to be perfectly clear. Like there is ransomware for rent on the dark web.

Um, one way that, that, uh, that the companies are outsourced here. So if I, I could go find ransomware and like screw my school local school district like a like a turn a turnkey ransom you could just use like use fiverr and just have hire somebody to create some that is nice there's a market for everything so one of our advisors is um is this fellow named charles carmichael and he. And he worked at FireEyeMandian. It's now part of Google. And FireEyeMandian, a number of years ago, they did a bunch of private research

around foreign threat actors hacking into US companies. They basically, essentially did a bunch of research that demonstrated that the Chinese government was hacking into U.S. companies. Now, this had been alleged by the government, CIA and everybody, that kind of group of folks who used to pay attention to that stuff in the public sector for a long time. But, you know, they're governed by privacy rules and everything else. So there's never any real, you know, clear data about, well, is China really behaving like this in the market or not? And those types of things always have a conspiracy feel to it. So anyway, so Charles's team puts out this research report. It says basically, well,

look, this is actually what's going on. This is the threat. These are their nation states, and this is kind of what they're doing. And we need to pay attention to this right now. There was a big response from China, got very mad about this, as you can imagine, this is New York Times. And so the next thing is, well, actually they just sort of showed the work. Actually, here are the people, you know, here are the IP addresses. Here's how we did the forensic analysis. Here are like the names of the people in the Chinese military that are actually part of the part of the program. Here are the targets they hit.

They did very, very real, very bold research publicly. And, you know, that's a scary array of threat actors out there. There are these big sort of Russian state sanctioned cyber gangs, ALFV, it's capital A-L-P-H with a V on it, sort of Alfie, Alfie. Scattered Spider is the name of another one. Black spider is the name of another one black cat is the name of another one and these are these are either loosely organized or um or slightly more formal and and they're they're organized and they're very very good at hacking into companies and using any lever that they can to do it do they ever pull the trigger tom do they ever actually like like someone doesn't pay and they just up upend all

your shit uh they they do that anyway oh so even if you pay they still they still leave they still shit and leave they do that anyway oh yeah you may you may get your system turned back on but the data is probably gone the the data will still be again like it's you know it's like a movie really. You're really going to... What's the honor system with the extortion guy? Like, okay, fine, I'll give you 300 million in Bitcoin and you're going to give me all my data back. How do I know you're going to get my data back? It's not like there's a prisoner exchange on a bridge. There's no leverage. The guy being held ransom has no leverage. Right. So he gives you the 300 million Bitcoin and they have to make this calculation. And

these are smart people that are working. These's not, these are not reckless decisions. And I'm sure there's going to be, you know, lots of Monday morning quarterbacking about, you know, who paid the ransom and should they have done that? And should there be a rule to say, I got all that stuff. I don't know. If, if you're a healthcare organization and the ER is shut down, and if you don't get it turned on again, people are going to die. You're probably going to pay the ransom. I guess not your job. You have to save lives. Worry about that other thing later, the house is on fire. I think that there's some, some,

some real calculations around that, but unfortunately you pay the ransom. To get the ER turn back on those patient records. You pay the ransom to get the ER term back on. Those patient records, well, thank you, Black Cat, for giving me a receipt that says that you deleted it. And then everyone else on the web can then start scraping that data. They put it all out there, or then they sell it, and everyone else gets access to it all of a sudden. Pretty much until you get a situation where law enforcement, because it lives on the dark web. And that means that the dark web are, it's unindexed data that is very difficult to track.

And it's not, it's not on Google. You know, if, if, if. Is that what it means by dark web? I don't know what unindexed means, but dark web means that Google won't search. It's censored information. I mean mean in the rawest form right um censored uh so it under the guise of protecting you and i'm just being just like completely um well honest with the language. So there's nothing that prohibits its existence. It is not de facto censored.

There's no law saying that this stuff can't be communicated between computers. You'd use a different browser. You wouldn't use. Right. But I'm saying Google censors it. Let's say someone scrapes data. And in my medical file, they found out that I've had a sex change operation and in some Chinese companies steals that information and then it gets out there and it's on the

dark web on index, whatever that means. And then Google wouldn't search it. They, they consciously do that. They censor like an order of like under the guise of being nice and not wanting to deal with a stolen property. They don property, they don't allow you to search it. It's probably a simplification, but is that what the dark web is? I always wonder what the dark

web is. The only thing that I would throw in there is that I'm not sure that it's not indexed on Google because Google is prohibiting it from being indexed. Okay. I may, you know, I'm a cyber criminal. I'm probably not going to hang my, my shingle on fifth half. Right.

Okay. Okay. Right. So, okay. So it just might be the nature of how Google works that it doesn't come across that or how people store it on the web, posted on the web.

They know to post it places that Google won't search it. That's right. Okay. Okay. So we're not sure if it's google who's hiding it out of or if the people are hiding it but but it's it but it is you it's not just accessible to everyone with their just their normal shit um so that's correct although you know my my 11 year old probably has a pretty good idea about how to just turn on the Tor browser and figure out how to switch that around. What's the Tor browser? Is that like DuckDuckGo or it's even – what's Tor?

Tor is a browser that you can use to actually access unindexed information on the dark web it's it's essentially think about it as a uh as a um as a damn uh yeah it's essentially a web browser for the dark web so defend yourself against tracking trafficking but really you can wow wow. God, I'm so naive. I'm completely clueless. But I mean, like the censorship top topic is, you know, is, is, is interesting because it's, it's super political and, um, but I don't know that this is necessarily intentional as much as, again, if you're a criminal, you probably not going to, this is, this is the, this is where you sell your Rolexes off the back of the truck. This is the back of the truck. Okay. Okay. You know, Google is more like, you know, the mall of America.

Can you, can you, is there any way you could explain indexing to me so I could understand it? So by indexing, all I mean is it's information that it's online and Google can find it. So Google can generally find all sorts of things. And when you run a search, the search basically is just looking through all of these line items on this list that's all it is it's think of it as it's like an index like the like the um like last night i was searching the library i was trying to search if kamala harris and montel williams really were a couple so i put that in did montel sleep with kamala harris i put that into the browser yesterday what what did it say just you know like I put that into the browser yesterday. What did it say?

Just, you know, like every like Us Magazine and People Magazine, I got like 100, you know what I mean? I couldn't find the juicy details I wanted to hear. So we don't know. We don't even know. After all that, Google can't tell us. How's Montel doing anyways? I thought he was getting sick in his old age. Maybe, but in 19-

He's all right, old Montel. And I was really surprised. I mean, Kamala was hot. She's all right. Oh my god, look at her. She would have been fun to party with. Anyway, we digress. Okay, so basically you're saying all of that is somehow – when I post a picture on the internet, somehow the way it's posted, most normal things are indexed.

If someone wants – it's marked with something normal things are indexed. If someone wants, it's marked with something so that Google can find it. That's right. And, and people who don't want that when they post something, they know to leave off the index. However they post to the internet, they know how somehow to post with leaving the index off. Uh, that, that's like a tag that basically that's the idea. Yeah. Okay. And, you know, when things pop up in a normal public search on Google, you know, there's stuff that we don't want up there. And, you know, years ago, you know, the Internet seemed a bit more libertarian. If it's up there, it's up there forever.

And whatever, Google's going to have to talk. Whatever. The more information that's out there, it's up there forever. And whatever, Google's, whatever. The more information that's out there, the better humanity is and all this kind of stuff. Then in Europe, a bunch of lawsuits came up and people were like, wait a second. Why is it that there's all this information about me? I'm a stalking victim. And my assailant is just following me around the internet, just can you take this stuff

about me off the internet, and they had to sue to make that happen, and in Europe, you have the right to be forgotten, which is basically this kind of common sense idea that, you know, why does Google have the right to put just literally anything about you up there, you know, it could be not necessarily public information, I'm fine, There's an article about me in the Wall Street Journal. That's part of public record that should be searchable. But, you know, if there's a picture of, you know, of some kind of like unflattering picture of you or your, or, or, or your, yeah, like Reddit. I have friends, I have friends where I've typed in their name and a nude picture of them popped up. It's on Reddit from 20 years ago. I mean, the picture is, I don't know when it was posted on Reddit, but it's a picture from 20 years ago and they're naked. Yeah. So, you know, Google, you can now Google will respect your, uh, your, uh, your, your, your intention to get that stuff removed.

You have to know how to do it. But what that means then is, yes, that picture still lives somewhere in a database, but it's not indexed anymore. So now when you Google and look for that, it just doesn't show up anywhere. You just can't find it. So Google plays a part in this because it's basically the storefront for all this information. You can look for it. You can find it. It's listed.

You get a teaser. You can look at it as an article. You read most of the article and hit the paywall. It's basically a storefront for information. And personally identifiable information is no different. It's just that it has a much different effect on our lives. And it's so freely available. And then again, all this other cyber extortion software that you can rent is an issue. My whole long-winded story

about Charles Carmichael, I barely got the end of, was that there are lots and lots of teenagers who are using this stuff and just aren't, you know, look, there is no dumber animal on planet Earth than a teenage boy. That's very true. That's very true. You can kind of, you got a little bit of Python going and you're good at math and, hey, this looks fun. You know, what does this button do? computer it's not you're good at math and hey this looks fun you know what does this button do and sure kids have been involved in these types of um um attacks more frequent war games like the movie war it's like war games yeah it's like it's like war games and uh i saw that movie like 30 times as a kid i loved that such a sweet movie yeah what was the guy's name not Matthew McConaughey

Matthew Broderick god that movie was cool that was a good one let me ask you about Me Prism specifically so that's like big picture stuff we were just talking about is it like I like

as soon as I my cousin showed me this Me Prism, I was like, oh, this is cool. Maybe I'll get less spam phone calls. People can't search me as much like I'm not trying to hide anything. I just don't want to be I guess for me, I don't want to be bugged by things in the database that are scraping. I'm not like worried if someone finds an old high school picture of me or finds out that I was arrested for doing 65 and a 25. I like, I kind of want people to find that stuff, but I just don't want to be bugged by spammers or, or, or scammers. Right. I mean, I get a scam on my phone every day. Yeah. So is that where those people get that information?

Like my phone numbers be like, I see it as like my phone number and where I live and my address and and the yesterday yesterday i was searching camera bags and this morning my instagram account's just full of camera bags yeah that's that's exactly how it happens and that's where the data goes and um um there's a couple things you have to do like the the more you show yourself to um to social media to the platforms use, the more targeted ads you get. Targeted ads, there's all these euphemisms for what's actually going on. This is really just a big market. It's a marketplace. But the tech companies use all kinds of jargon to confuse that there's actually a value exchange here and you're paying for the service.

They're just taking your privacy and selling it to somebody else. We're not going to tell you how much more. So it's very sort of kind of opaque in that way. So removing that data- The line is if you think it's free, that means you're the product, right? Yeah. Isn't that the line? Right. That's not a bad rule of thumb. Okay. Sorry.

Sorry. Go ahead. But so what we do is we think about – so spams are a complete spam hassle. Marketing calls, being followed around the internet. Being followed around the internet, that's personalization. Personalization is the euphemism that big tech uses for selling your data to advertisers. Look, you're getting the ads that you want. Really? Actually, let's try it without that. See what happens if you don't actually sell my... And I get non-personalized ads. Is that the end of the world? What that means is if I'm not

getting personalized ads, they're not giving my personal information, the stuff that I bought, my purchasing proclivities, maybe my health issues, things like that to advertisers so that they can then say, oh, well, I want to try to sell to that person right now. But that is a then that other party has information about you, about your the things you buy, where you live, whether you're buying stuff for your kids or your wife might be pregnant right now or who knows. Like any that information is out there. So, you know, that's not a good thing. The way we think about it is if you're trying to stop spam calls and scams and different types of things that be a result of surveillance, you basically got three problems. One, you got to find the data. That's tricky because we do know the companies that we do do business with, right? Facebook, Google, Twitter. And there are things you can do within their privacy settings. You just got to tighten that up. Okay. So I can find it at the ones I know. What about the, you know, the two, 300 people search data brokers, plus the big data brokers

that are the motherships that I don't really have a relationship with and I'm not really sure to opt out with, but how do I get out of that stuff? Because that's a typhoid Mary that's leaking all my data all over the place to anybody, including foreign governments and threat actors and extortion business, whatever. Well, as a human being, it's kind of hard to find that data. So what do we do? We find the data. We run a bunch of scans. We have software that does it. We know where to look. We know the data brokers are. So we find the data. Once we found the data, that's when the next kind of tricky part kicks in and that's removing the data. So you have these, you know, many dozen companies that have this financial asset, which is basically this just big mountain of your data. It's like a big pile of gold that they're sitting on, which is just

data about human beings and their family, every American and their families. They don't want to get rid of that gold. So you have to make them abide by your right to get out of that database. And that's tricky because there's federal laws that are really kind of, um, challenging to enforce, but enforceable. Uh, I'm talking about sort of, uh, fair trade, um, uh, uh, anti-competitive practice things, we have a right in the law to know what companies have, what data companies have about us. We have a right to tell them to stop selling it to anybody. We have a right to tell them to stop collecting data about us. And we have a right to tell them to delete the data.

Wow. Stop selling, stop collecting, and delete. That's awesome. OK. And that's crystal clear in the law in California. This is a really big deal because there's a there's never been a federal law. And, you know, the folks in California that kind of put that together. And that's a great story in and of itself. A number of years ago, GDPR kicked in and just a handful of kind of business people and citizens in California that lived in Northern California, Alistair McTaggart is one of them. Google Alistair basically just became concerned

that friends of his that he knew at other big tech companies were kind of saying, well, you wouldn't believe how much data we have about everybody and everything. And this was back when Eric Schmidt had just said, yeah, we have tons of data. We like to get right up to that line of creepy, but just not quite go over the line of creepy. That's when he was saying stuff like that. GDPR stands for general data protection. Yes. So that's the European privacy regulation, which basically provides a framework for, hey, human beings have rights over their data and companies and governments have rules they have to abide by. Okay. And before that, it was literally the Wild West because technology companies called it whatever they wanted and claimed it was a new thing and you wouldn't understand it.

Don't look over here. We'll do whatever we want and make tons of money no matter what. So that shows up. California starts paying attention to this. So that shows up. California starts paying attention to this. Alistair McTaggart and some of his friends really spend about their own money to set up the referendum to get a majority of Californians to say, you know what? We actually think that it should be a rule that consumers have a right to know what's

in the databases of any company that has information about them and they should have a right to tell those companies to delete of it to delete the data and to stop surveilling them and selling their privacy is alistair rich um i don't think he's as rich as you are is he well basically he's he's um um well i think he's a successful businessman for sure that's what I mean. I was just going to go on a side point here for all you idiots who think that rich people are bad. Like these are the kind of things that people who have extra resources. These are the kind of things that they do.

And this is happening every day. People with a shit. I know the news always wants to shit on people with money but we need fucking people with really rich with really deep pockets so that they can do things like this to help kick the government and and other other people from uh getting into our shit anyway i just wanted to dry that point because rich people get so much bad press and it's like it's so misplaced the vast majority of rich people will make this fucking country so great and so innovative and move forward and give us the opportunities to have so many nice things that's why we have intermittent windshield wipers and airbags because rich people paid great and so innovative and move forward and give us the opportunities to have so many nice things. That's why we have intermittent windshield wipers and airbags because rich people paid crazy money for them 20 years ago. Sorry. Okay. I got off my horse.

No, that's a really important point. And I think it's a really important point about how this whole thing started unfolding because I don't know how wealthy the man is, but the paper said something like he spent $3 dollars of his own money yeah that's trying to get to give californians the opportunity to just vote on whether or not they think this is a good idea and think about the fact that millions of dollars were spent by big tech companies to to keep californians from just having that right is that there are law in california being tried in the pass to shut you guys down? Like they don't want you to be able to ask how the tech industry is so in confusion about privacy laws.

Yeah, but it wasn't. So me prism, I me prism actually contacts these companies for me on behalf of me. Like I signed, I signed something and they say, hey, can we contact all these people and tell them to stop collecting your data? Stop selling your data and to delete your data data so that's what you're doing for me and isn't california there's some obviously it's backed by big tech and lobbyists they're trying to stop you from being able to do that for me so that sounds nefarious as shit it not just nefarious but almost hard to believe um it would be cravingven. What was the word you used? Craven. Craven. Yeah. So the California privacy law was a referendum, which means that, and California is interesting in the

way it's set up. If a majority of California citizens vote for something, that is the law of the land. The governor can do nothing about it. The legislature can do nothing about it because it's a direct referendum voted for by the entire population. That is an expression of the will of the people. So there's nothing else to happen. We have a privacy law because of that referendum. Part of the privacy law included a bunch of tenants that the law is for consumers to have the ability to express their right under the law to have their data, to know what their data is, and have that data removed without undue frustration or shenanigans by big tech. And that right can be expressed by them or their lawful agent. So again, there's hundreds of just people search data brokers. There's thousands of data brokers in general. So locating your data, getting your data removed, you might want to do that on your own, but you might want to hire somebody to do it. Sometimes people- That would be a full-time job for me to do what your software is doing for me.

Right. And you're not- I couldn't do it. You probably couldn't. You really wouldn't want to do that. Yeah. Right. You certainly wouldn't, wouldn't want to do that. And, but you're also not required under the law to do it. You're not required to hire me. Right. You only got to go, well, you know, is this a good product? Right. Fair price. Right. Does it do what it's like? It's like tax. It's like taxes. I can't do my taxes either.

Like I, like, it would take me a fucking, it would take me a fucking month. Right. So it would be kind of weird you know if um you know if somebody basically said we're going to make h&r block illegal it's illegal for h&r block to charge for their services you're on your own that it was illegal let's say a company that sells lawnmowers all of a sudden came up with this fucking harebrained idea we're going to make it illegal to sell lawnmower services because then that way everyone will be forced to buy lawnmowers and we'll sell more lawnmowers that's right but some sort of crazy shit like that and and so that just kind of you like that caleb thank you yeah that was i like that that's good that's good thank you i mean, that was- I like that. That was good. That was good. Thank you. I mean, there's a lot of money at stake for these companies.

So they want to protect this big pile of data that they have by people. So they know that if companies like ours that understand the legal regime and know how these companies are interconnected, know how they sell the data and can actually show people what the story is that people will want to just take their data out and protect their privacy as bad for their business. So they proposed, what happened was they were able to find they, so who is they?

And they, so who is that? A group of very, very large data brokers, IPG, which owns Axiom, Experian, TransUnion. And this is, it's public information, how much money they spend on lobbying, what they spent it for. basically crafted a bill that they got a retiring state senator to sponsor. So this fellow who's sponsoring it, he's a lame duck data broker should be able to call them up and confirm their identity and maybe ask them for more data to prove who they are. And if we're not sure if it's a lawful opt out request, we're going to go ahead and deny it. And we also need the ability to deny it under other subjective terms. Okay. So number one, we think we should have the right to determine whether or not the consumer can opt out. The basic tenant of CPR is it's the consumer's data. You have to respect their right to opt out and you can't make it hard for them. That's the whole point of the law.

Number two, it should be illegal for companies to charge money to help consumers exercise their privacy rights under the act. Yeah. Not like they're not required to use it, but, but that whole, we shouldn't have agents helping consumers. And their argument was that that's fraudulent, that, that people would be worried that agents of the consumer might be opting them out, I guess, nefariously from data brokers. Let's think about that for a second. Yeah, that doesn't even make sense. So I've been in this business for a while. I've yet to run into a single carbon-based life form that has complained about their data being removed from white pages. Right, right. Is that a harm or is that a gift?

Right. So the fraud that they're claiming doesn't seem to make any sense. They then sort of intimated that if people opt out of these kinds of databases, there's going to be massive scale financial fraud because, I don't know, JP Morgan won't be able to tell if it's you signing into the JP Morgan app. Again, this is a claim without any evidence whatsoever. And having worked at banks, I can tell you that's not the only tool in the toolbox for banks to determine whether or not it's you or not, believe me. So this was sort of dropped. It was supposed to be taken up by the Judiciary Committee on Tuesday.

We wrote a bunch of letters to lawmakers, and we coordinated with some privacy advocacy groups. And we also talked to lawmakers at the federal level also. some privacy advocacy groups. And we also, we talked to a lot of lawmakers at the federal level also. And we have, you know, we're blessed in that we happen to have really, really good advisory panel on the legal side. And our outside counsel in privacy matters

actually represents the California State Bar with Sacramento for privacy issues. So that bill didn't pass or it's still working its way through? So we sent these letters into the Judiciary Committee, explained why this is preposterous and why there's unintended consequences that would essentially abrogate the CPRA, which also seems almost insane to even say out loud. And we talked about it on social media, it was up on LinkedIn, some other spots. And they the deal was the the bill was withdrawn the day before the Judiciary Committee was was was set to take it up,

probably because the rest of the members of the Judiciary Committee were looking at it going, this is going to look bad if we sign this. This is not like. One thing that's definitely going on. And we talk, we see it in the national level. We see this in social media, how we communicate with one another in social media and elsewhere. There is an element of populism going on that's generationally different than it's been for a long, long time. And it's part of the whole. time. And it's, it's part of the whole, it's, it's really, you know, individuals kind of pushing back against sort of institutions and saying, what, I don't, how's this, what's that to do with me? You know, the, the discussion about, well, well, you know, parts of the left or parts of

the right, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a wave of individuals voting really more for their own actual populist self-interest. And as opposed to what, as opposed to like down the party line, down the party, America, love it, love it or leave it. You know, the status quo is fine. We trust our institutions. Now it's kind of let's throw the bums out, whoever the bums are. They've been in for a while. Let's throw the bums out. And I think there's something similar like that going on with what's happening in tech. Now the electorate's looking at big tech a little bit differently than they were 10 years ago. You might have to go a little farther back than that. But there's a sense that things are not exactly great with how technology works for regular people.

And it's starting to piss people off. Yeah, basically, we're addicted to our technology and because the people who created the technology know that they can manipulate the masses. It's such a – the same way like William Randolph Hearst or Rockefeller did or these other people did using the New York Times 100 years ago. Now Big Tech is doing it at lightning speed. I mean you can't – I'm not saying – by no means am I defending it, but you also – it's like it's the same playbook that's been happening for all of humanity right yeah just now it's happening so fast the manipulation and communication and that's such a great point because they have more access to us like you said they can more granularly manipulate us like before it was like vote for this guy now they're making

you buy q-tips and you don't even clean your ears. Yeah. I mean, it's not making you, but you know what I mean? They're, they're leading you right to like, they got your credit card now. You gave it to them so you can one click. Well, listen, I'm not a, an evolutionary biologist or anything, but you know, it's, it's interesting to me that, you know, we have for better, for worse a really really high profile national internet global conversation about climate change whatever that actually means whatever yeah it's it's more than unfortunately it's not a conversation it's a propaganda machine because you can ask a hundred thousand you i don't think uh 99.9 to infinity people

could even tell you what uh climate change actually means but well and and and while i conversation is not allowed to be had nor does anyone care but sorry go ahead i i completely agree with that but the argument is something like look this climate thing it's changing a lot and that's really really bad wait why is it bad well trust me it's bad we the environment that's where we live is changing at a pace that's outstripping our evolutionary ability to adapt to it and so that's going to kill us all off or or miami's going to be underwater i don't know something like but whatever but this is the point being there's this crazy delta of change that the human race is just not like we've been you know our evolutionary time scale is just too slow this is going to happen too fast we're going to get malachi crunch

it's all over for humanity right caleb malachi crunch thank you i'm about to look it up thank you um that's happy days you're probably not old enough. Oh, really? With the Fonzie? Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Obscure reference lost on younger viewers. And a lot.

Oh, my viewers are all old. You know, I tell you what, the, the, when I was doing CrossFit in, in, in, you were doing CrossFit, you know, in, in New York before I moved out by that square jaw. Look at you. Look at you. No, that's surgery. Oh, the plastic surgery. it you know in in new york uh before i can tell by that square jaw look at you look at you um no that's surgery oh the plastic surgery well it's california yeah you gotta fit right in right right maybe i'll get a nose job next the um easy easy easy the thing about the uh well you can't you cannot improve on perfection my friend thank you thank you. Thank you. Good, good turnaround. The, the thing about CrossFit that just completely blew my doors off the first time I was there

was because they make you do this sort of, you know, week long, like we got to make sure you're not going to hurt yourself. Yeah. You know, seven sessions of prep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. And that's so awesome because you will have people in there, you know, New York City, that's so awesome because you will have people in there, you know, New York city, New York city, there's people who are, you know, you can be an Olympic wrestler and, uh, uh, you know, the, the usual, uh, you know, kind of, kind of healthy health nuts. And then there's like a, you know, in my, there was, I think a 67 or 68 year old, uh, uh, Korean grandma who, if she weighed 105 pounds soaking wet, was probably the highest scale. And, you know, that range of it is just, it is, it's motivating to anybody, you know, and she, as long as I was there, you know,

she and other folks who were older than me are kind of rocking that thing. And it's so inspiring, uh, to, you know, to, to, to kind of see, um, which gym did you go to? Um, it was the black box. Oh, in New York city. Holy shit. Wow. This is a small world. Wow.

What year were you? What year year were you not want to paint it um i left in june of 2020 came out here and wow that's what my mom's my mom's a crossfitter she weighs she's eight i don't know how old my mom is she's either 80 or 82 but she crossed she's been crossfitting for i don't know 14 or 50 since she's been like 68 um that's awesome yeah and she weighs probably 100 pounds soaking wet mom by the way we come over after this we need to do some work in the garden so please come over and help me all right um uh tom sorry i know it's you've been trying to get us up to speed on a lot of things. When I found out about this and I started dabbling in it, I was thinking, shouldn't every cop in the United States be using Me Prism?

Do you guys have any competitors? And shouldn't every – like, shouldn't every – like, when you enlist in the military, shouldn't they automatically, like, be like, okay, and here's your Me Prism code. Pull all your shit off the web. Or at least have the opportunity. I mean, fuck, they make you take 20 shots, 20 vaccines when you get there. Why not make pull all your shit off the web so or or at least have the opportunity i mean fuck they make you take 20 shots 20 vaccines when you get there why not make you pull your

dad off the internet too so um we we have a lot of uh uh law enforcement uh customers and um it's a must right it's like a fucking no-brainer right it's so if i'm a cop i do not want my shit out there so it it's the court justices were getting their houses people going to their houses in the last couple years this is and then the law enforcement wasn't protecting them yeah so like the michigan police union um poem is um um you know they are a customer. Yeah, I mean, law enforcement, correction officer, people who obviously have folks out there who might want to do them harm. Yeah, absolutely. You're a cop and you interact with 20 douchebags a day who hate you

because they're doing something illegal that you're trying to stop. And might be crazy. Yeah, they are, yeah. Probably crazy. Psychiatrists, a lot of them as customers. Lots of people in the medical industry. Hot chicks. Very attractive women.

It's not been generally a marketing angle for us in general, but we should, we should probably explore that more than four inches of cleavage. So did I, did I say before that we would hire you as an affiliate if you were, you know, if you were, if you were available, because I mean, I, I can't really can sell better than I can. I just can't imagine anyone who deals with idiots so do let me ask you this what is the general do you know this this might be out of your purview but what if i become a police officer well let me ask you caleb you entered the military did they tell you to pull

all your stuff off the web or did they offer anything to you no absolutely not they don't they they give us like a annual cyber security like little computer based training you have to do. But it has nothing to do with your personal information. It has everything to do with the government's information. out was to just use like a VPN whenever I'm using the internet, which I don't even know what that does after you're explaining all of these things that people, all the angles that you can access information from, you know? So. Yeah. VPN is helpful in that it hides where you are or what you're looking at, but it doesn't do anything to, you know, obliterate the data that's already out there about you that can be used to, to harm you. We, you know, we've got a lot of these medical issues. McLaren Health had a massive, massive breach in, in, you know, in, in Michigan, millions and millions of people lost data. When these sort of medical issue things happen, we do see more customers come online. Part of the reason is that, you know, if your medical record, your medical history, or that of your family is something that you can be purchased, well, then that person knows

a bunch of things. They could know what, not only what medical condition you have, but, but maybe what, you know, financial stressors you have. And now you have, now I can go to, you know, Spokio and Verified and White Pages and collect all this other data about you. pages and collect all this other data about you. Now, maybe I know who your family is, maybe where your kids go to school. Then I'm going to go over to Rocket Reach and I'm going to find out where you work. Oh, actually, maybe this person is a good financial target too. So I can locate them. I know how much money they have. I know what their medical conditions are. I know if they've been seeing reproductive health, all sorts of things you could potentially consider or mental health services. Hello, Mr. CFO from blah, blah, yak, yak. at Betty Ford or you're on some kind of hormone blocker or something else that unless you want us to tell everybody about this, $50,000, I think seems about right. Bitcoin would be nice. Thank you very much. So you have this situation right now where it it's troubling that that big data sets are getting

leaked out there the AT&T one like I just looked at that the nature of that it's you can definitely find people you can definitely actually get enough information to start the idea of of financial fraud actually the social security numbers addresses all that kind of stuff. The financial data from your AT&T account, great, got that. Now I can enrich that with all this other data, the data that MePRISM removes. And now you actually have a pretty good social engineering campaign against a person or a company. You can enrich this data that's now been stolen by the threat actor. If you leave this other open source data out here, now you got a problem. It also begs the question, if JP Morgan loses a bunch of my data to the world, they're probably going to say, well, sorry about that. Here's LifeLock. LifeLock is like an identity

solution or identity protection solution that basically gives you a call in line if somebody steals your money. So I've been a victim of identity fraud. My account was drained. What am I supposed to do now? Well, you call a helpline and they'll say, well, you call JP Morgan and tell them that this is a claim and they will make you whole to some extent, it's insured, blah, blah. I'm not sure what it does for you. It didn't prevent the attack. It basically might give you some advice about what you can do on your own to kind of fix that after the fact. Why would you give somebody that instead of giving somebody a tool that actually is going to remove the rest of the data that's floating around out there,

that can then be used to weaponize the data that they lost in the first place? Right. Great. So you're giving me a credit alert? Right. So that, and by the first place. Right. Great. So you're giving me a credit alert? Right. So that, and by the way, the credit- Now I know I'm being robbed. Great. And I still can't do anything.

Right. What's the point of that? Right. So I have a feeling that there's going to be an uh realization that all this data is connected you've got to minimize the um um the data about you and your family that you can it's on the internet oh you bring up a good point so even if they can't pull it all off you want to minimize it to it's kind of like pulling out sections of the spider's web yes so that they can't make the leaps and the connections right it's bad if

they're going because they're going for the easiest targets hey hey um uh i i when i i opened up an llc a couple years ago and within a month of starting my llc in california i got 20 envelopes in the mail that all looked like they were from the state of california with a bill in them don't you love those and they were from all from it was crazy and at first i started to fall for them i started like giving it to my wife hey can you pay this can you pay this and it was it was just it was just all scams and basically when you looked at it closely it was like it was a bill for 59.95 to sell you uh an envelope to put your certificate in and it was just all scams around your new LLC. They knew you'd be excited about your new LLC.

So they send stuff that looks like it comes in a government envelope with the same window and the same font. And they're trying to basically sell you stuff around your LLC that you think is mandatory. I'm assuming they scraped that from the public record, right? That I had a new LLC. They have someone there just waiting. Okay.

Send it to him, to him, to him. I will have to look into that and get to get back to you but the the state of california um is like the poorest rich state uh in in america i mean it always needs money um and i didn't fall for it shut your face standy randy sorry okay go ahead i i didn't fall for it for a while and i i need to see if this is still the case but the dmv would sell your data to oracle oracle is i mean really good at what they do. They monetize data. So let's just stop and think about that for a second. By the way, the guy who is in charge, the senior guy who is in charge, he sold his company to Oracle to help monetize data.

He ended up buying CrossFit and fucked it all up a couple of years ago. Interesting. The guy's name is eric rosa but just interesting story he was he had this huge basically uh data management company i forget the name of it and ellison bought it and then this guy he sold to ellison and got rich and then used that money to buy crossfit and fucked it all up but anyway just interesting i bet he was in really good shape though oh my god he was in great shape right yes yes yes it's worth it yeah yeah yeah yeah okay anyway so sorry uh so go ahead so oracle's oracle's really good at the um well so like you set up an llc in california so now you've told the government here's a filing like this is me and by the way generally people put stuff in an llc

to give them some kind of distance between the business and themselves for safety and liability reasons so your name usually isn't on the llc like you kind of don't want that that's all point of it really so uh i again i need to look into exactly how that data goes from. Yeah. I called my LLC. I think seven media. So I should have consulted with you. I put my name on it. Wait a second. I thought your last name was Matosian. It is,

but I just used my first name. Oh, I thought you were saying your last name is media. Oh no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is that in the state of California, where you have a right to privacy in the law, you cannot drive without getting a driver's license. You have to get a driver's license where you will put your name, your address, and a bunch of PII on there and your photograph. And you have to have that to drive and live your life, conduct your business, whatever. They then sell that data and make money from that data by giving it to a data broker who then makes money on it by essentially selling your privacy to other people. So I have a right to privacy, but I can't drive unless I go

to the DMV. And then I have no right to privacy because they sell my data to data brokers that can then actually end up back where? Well, they get your driver's license. That's a pretty good indication of where you live. And it's pretty good tool for identity theft. Absolutely. I mean, it's the tool. Yeah. I mean, it's the tool.

So if all you did was register your LLC and that was registered with the state and then you're getting advertisements to that, then the state shared that data with somebody. And that's an advertisement. So I guarantee they were paid to do that. You know that that I was just guessing it's just it's the same thing. Like if you get a divorce, right, it's on the internet. Like if there's a court, if there's a court date or something, and then people start who offer services or who scam people who are going through divorces, right? Then they just start collecting your names and offering you services based on the fact that you're going through a divorce, right? Like to sell your house or whatever, get life insurance or just whatever shit, right? whatever shit, right? Public registries, things that are public records are in fact,

public records. Now a company can scrape public records, but in California, you can't sell that to an advertiser. If I tell you, you can't sell that to an advertiser. Oh, so you're going to scrape a whole bunch of money, a bunch of data about me from public records.

Fine. Public, but you're not supposed to, you can't sell it, but you can scream a whole bunch of money, a bunch of data about me from public records. Fine. Public. But you're not supposed to. You can't sell it, but you can use it. Well, under the law, you can't sell it or share it if I tell you you can't do that. That doesn't mean that the data doesn't still live in a public database. It just means that it doesn't live on a storefront on the internet and shows up on Google when you search for it. Oh, I see what you're saying.

Hey, do you remember a few years ago they found out, I think maybe I'm screwing this up, but they found out basically that the NSA was taking pictures of people who were using Yahoo, all of them every five seconds with their camera phone and how they found out is the people who worked at the NSA were passing around naked pictures of people that they were collecting. Like they were basically curating the pictures with like the best sex shit, the best like stuff. Is it safe to assume that that's a true story? Right. I remember that. Right. You know, I haven uh i'm not familiar with the story but it certainly doesn't surprise me doesn't sound unusual uh that sort of thing

has happened in not i'm not the government but private companies and and it's uh yeah do you think it's safe to assume do you think it's safe to assume without being a weirdo that your phone is always listening to you and capable of taking pictures of you like at all times like if you're watching porn on your computer should you or on your phone should you just assume someone's watching you um the yeah the sort of the porn watching hygiene thing i i would guess yeah that's that's that's probably a good i'm not i i don't know that much about the that side of cyber hacking world, but I would not be a bit surprised if that's a... There's a famous picture of Zuck from years ago sitting in front of a computer. And you can see that he's got like a tape over the camera of his,

of his, of his desktop. Yeah. And, um, and people are like, wait, why has he got it? Oh, wait a second. You mean you can't turn your camera off? You know, maybe you can't turn your head. What about your phone listening to you? Like one, one time I'll never forget. Um, but what about your phone listening to you like one one time i'll never forget um one of my friends was getting into koi fish and i never searched koi fish on my phone but we talked about it a lot for like a month and all of a sudden i was getting ads on instagram to sell

me koi fish yeah i mean wow this is fucking wild i never searched anywhere i never bought anything with my credit card and i was like maybe this thing is listening to me. Um, well it, it's not, yeah, it's listening to you. There's there, there's like, of course it is. Don't be an idiot. It has a microphone. Like, why would it not be listening to you like that? Like, it's not even nefarious. It's like, dude, you, you carry around this thing with a camera and a microphone and you don't think it's like looking at you people on the other end. You we um you know a lot of times we we kind of focus on yeah look even my mom remembers that photo of zuck jesus my am i wow mom i don't want you knowing stuff like this go do something jeez louise

jeez yeah yeah i'm asking for a friend the porn question no i just think now i just assume at all times that like hey are anything i look on my phone i'm like or anything i'm doing on my phone like are you okay are are you at peace with the whole world knowing you just did this so um roger mcnamee um was an early investor in Facebook. And he has this firm called Elevation Partners. And he's a really smart investor and was early in Facebook. And he kind of had, I guess, a come to Jesus moment a number of years ago where basically

said, look, this is dangerous. The way this whole Facebook thing is working, there's a lot of bad things that are going on. So we wrote a book called Zucked. And part of one of the things he was talking about is, we're worried about tech following us around. Is the phone listening to us and other people talk to us as well. Yeah, it is, but everything is tracking you. Like the phone you carry around and it has all kinds of sensors on it. It knows when you're standing, it knows it has biometrics. It knows how much you're, you're, you're, you're moving around. It knows where you are. It, it, it, it knows where you are. It knows what things you're searching for. Sure. It, you know, have a conversation about, about, you know, koi fish. There might be other things in your behavior online that indicate that koi fish is something that, that, that might be interesting

to you. And it all comes together. Oftentimes our behavior, you know, can be a really fertile hunting ground for prediction about the things that we want. So then we see stuff online all the time. We're like, I definitely was talking about thinking about that. And now I'm seeing an ad. All of that data that leads into that decision about wanting to talk about, Koi pond, maybe it's from that, but it could be from other sources of surveillance, from the phone, from conversations that you're having, from other exchanges. It's all being tracked in one way or another. So unless you basically tell all of these services, look, you can't just don't send my data to advertisers. It's going to get, that's, what's going to happen. You're, you're, you're, you're going to get these weird moments where, oh, wait, they're, they're surveilling me.

Well, of course they're, they're saying they're surveilling you. They're personalizing your experience. Could a store buy, let's say, let's say they're, they're geolocating me, right? I know my phone's following me around because like Waze, Maps choosing best directions for me. My phone used to tell me like every time I got in my car, my phone would know where I was going and it would say you're 15 minutes away from. Somehow it had figured out. I don't know if it was off my calendar or what. And I'd be like, wow, this is pretty wild.

But so you're saying that basically the local grocery store could get data that knows that I drive by it every day at three o' Earth is it's a captive business within a supermarket. Kroger has a business called 8451, which is essentially a really, really sophisticated data broker. broker. So you're, you know, you're, no, they, I don't know. They're one of the largest, you know, companies in the, in the, in the U S or one, two or three in terms of retail. Like if you, chances are, if you're, if you're buying apples at a store today, you know, 50% chance you're going to be, um, doing it in one of their stores. Um, you got a Ralph's, you're going to use the promotion because you have to use the promotion. You know what I mean? You got to have the number in there. Otherwise it's like, wait a second, everything's 30% more if I don't use the code. So give me the QR code.

That's on my phone. So what does that mean? I've got the app. Well, the app, what does the app mean? Unless I really know what I'm doing with my privacy controls, they know exactly where I am within the store while I'm in the store. Wow. Must be. You know what? It's obviously Monday because Tom's in the aisle trying to buy, you know, taco shells.

Or heavy cream. He ran out of heavy cream on Monday and he- No, no. It's Taco Tuesday's coming up. Taco Tuesday's coming up. Oh, right.

Taco Tuesday, yes. But we knew he was only going to buy one thing at Taco Shells because last week he bought two. They'll know what aisle you're in when you're that's the kind of geolocation that's that's that's available to them and the amount of it maybe i you know i haven't checked their their you know their website in a while but they have data enrichment and predictive capabilities that that are breathtaking really you think about that like Like, you go to a grocery store.

Yeah, Starbucks, I guess, Starbucks used to do that to me, too. They used to tell me if I was close to a Starbucks store, I would just get a notification. Hey, we're close to you. Yeah, crazy. Okay. Does MePrison work on a cell phone?

It does work on a cell phone. So the cell phone has, so there's a companion app on a cell phone? It does work on a cell phone. And so the cell phone has, so there's a companion app on the cell phone, which has privacy controls on it, which isn't on the web app. So you download that on your phone. And what that does is it, it allows you to log into Facebook,

Google, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and it will set your privacy settings so that they're not off the rack privacy settings that the account gives you when you just sign up. So if you just sign up for Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn- You have it? You have it? You already got it, Caleb?

Me Prism? No, I'm about to download it though. Oh, I got it. I forgot that I had it. So the privacy controls allow you to essentially toggle the privacy settings of those services so that those companies, they're not allowed to deprecate your service. They can't turn it off. They can't throttle your feeds or anything like that. They can't charge you

really all that. That's the one. Yeah. Yes. Well, so I already clicked it all. I have stopped collecting my data for Google. Stop collecting my web history. Stop collecting my location history. Stop collecting my YouTube history. That's essentially what you want it to do. I can't see the app, but you got to make sure you activate it. Are you going to add Instagram to this? I see Twitter's on here. We are.

Yeah, fuck Instagram. I keep seeing big booty Latinas, and I don't know why. Yeah, that's weird, Caleb. It doesn't sound like you. Well, so basically the idea is that when you sign up for those companies, they're basically going to say like, anything you do on here is ours. We get it and we're going to do whatever we want, as long as we can make as much money as we want. And if you don't like it, it's term of service.

Here's the door. Unless you say, you know, here's, it's my of service. Here's the door. Unless you say, you know, here's, it's my right to require you not to share my data and for you to, you know, inform anybody that you shared it with that they too can't share it. The velocity of my data must end here. Why did you start the company? Did you get screwed? And you're like, all right, I'm going to put all my energy in? It's bigger than that. I think it's because we're all getting screwed. So I spent about 25 years on Wall Street, working big in my last role, I was sort of in a management position that involved having to understand the compliance requirements,

managing an international institutional fixed income and equity sales force and know what the rules of the road are. And in a big market like the stock market or the fixed income market or the derivatives market, there's a massive amount of transactions. All those transactions, they happen instantaneously with tens of millions of players. Taxes are paid. Chain of custody is recorded. We have all this infrastructure that we make sure that there are not math errors. If you buy a stock, you buy Apple today, you have the same information as the person that sold you the stock. These are all basic fairness rules of the road for a marketplace that works. Why do you have that?

Because it's not going to be a functional market unless everybody has the same information and they all abide by the same set of rules. If you don't have that, you have insider trading. Insider trading is bad because, well, people cheat, but it's also bad because it's really inefficient for the market. That's a very important reason to not want people to have some information that they trade on that everybody else doesn't have. That's why we don't allow that. The data market, to me, looks like, OK, we've got these gigantic companies, Google, Facebook, Apple, trillions of dollars worth of wealth created in a couple of decades here. And yeah, I mean, as Peter Thiel said, we wanted flying cars.

We got 140 figures. How did this wealth transfer happen? Well, it happened because you have 1,000 or 2,000, maybe 3,000 companies that know how this data is traded. They trade it amongst themselves. There's no transparency. The data is your and my property. Sevan's virtual footprint cannot be monetized vis-a-vis tom daly it's my phone collecting my data and then someone's harvesting it to set to try to sell stuff to you or to to to do analysis on your behavior that has nothing to do with you to sell something to somebody else so i should be able to sell my own data it's mine it's my you want to sell it, you absolutely should. If you know what the consequences of that are.

Are there any ways to personally sell your own data? had the ability to collect all their data into a mobile secure bank account, like a data bank account from the app just pings Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, anywhere you have an account and says, give me a copy of all my data that you're required to give me under every single thing that you have. And so we built a thing that actually did that, collect the data. And then the consumer can see, well, they sold my data to all these advertisers. Here's how much they sold it for. It was worth about this much. God, that would be amazing to see that, dude.

That would be amazing to see that. So the idea then was, okay, if anybody wants to use your data or some subset of your data, they have to ping you in the app, tell you what they're going to use the data for and pay you for it. If they want to use your data for some reason that you think is that there's value to say, oh, I don't know. They're doing some study about how, you know, your traffic patterns in town. And I don't know, this is going to be good for the town. Fine. Okay. You can track me for that or whatever, but I want to know why. And I, and, and the rules have to be nerfed up. You have to agree that you're not going to take this data and sell it to China.

So informed consent. So transparency, symmetry of information. Everybody has the same information. And it's informed consent. If Vladimir Putin calls up and says, listen, I'll give you five grand for all your data. Thanks for the bid, but I'm going to pass. But it was nice to see the bid. It says you got a million bucks. I wasn't seeing my cup and see, I'm not really trying, whatever. But that should be up to the person whose asset is being traded. If that person thinks that that's a good risk return for them and their family, I guess, who am I to say that

that's a dumb decision? What I take issue with is you can't have an entire financial complex that's essentially trading an asset on behalf of the person without the person having anything to do with it. That seems insane, unstable, and utterly inefficient, most importantly. So because of that asymmetry information, there's absolutely no way that this economy could be being as, it can't be being optimized. It can't be. If everybody has the same information and there's lots of transparency, there's lots of bellyaching by incumbent players, but eventually the market grows, it gets bigger. There's more transactions and, and, and things grow. We've seen this over and over again throughout history in the financial

system. You know, 30 years ago, when I started trading, trading bonds, you could buy a bond from one customer and sell it to another customer. And nobody knew what the price difference was. None of it was listed. It was a secret basically. And then in the mid 90s, the FINRA and the regulators basically said, guys, this is crazy. The fixed income market's bigger than the stock market. And you guys don't report trades. There's no tape. There's no transparency. You got to have that. And of course, big Wall Street firms and big accounts were like, that. And of course, big Wall Street firms and big accounts were kind of like, no, no, no, no, this is kind of an insider game. We got it ourselves. Banks didn't want people to know

how much they were making, trading, crossing securities, how much money they're making off customers. So everybody pushed back on it. What happened? Well, trace came, there was this reform. Now trades were posted instantaneouslyaneously where every asset trades, what the price of it is. There's real visibility into what's going on in the marketplace and what's happened. The market has absolutely expanded. Liquidity has been provided way beyond where it was before. Lots of new players have come in. Capital has gotten less expensive for companies that couldn't access it before that. So it's a much bigger, much more stable. So there's hope in this field, too.

So if I'm hearing you right, you're saying the parallel would be, hey, we can do this. We can get access to the people who are collecting our data. We should be able to see every time they touch us, every time they see us. And we should be able to be a participant in this. And it's a win, win for everyone. It would actually expand it. Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's coming. And frankly, it's, it's really a good thing for, for, for people because, you know, most people still don't really know what's going on and And that's going to change. I'm telling you it's going to change soon because I pay attention to this stuff. The kinds of cyber attacks that have been happening have only been getting worse. These numbers have only been going up and they've been getting uglier. And there's a lot of state-sponsored activity and there is harm to real people

that's going on. So I would keep a very close eye on these incidents that are in public infrastructure. You had cyber threat where I think it's the same guys who hacked and shut down Colonial Pipeline and National Champion Pipeline, hacked, had to take it offline. Those were the Russians. Doing the same thing with these other mutual water service in Texas this week was another one. It's happening more. And the same guys are going after infrastructure that's a little more personal when you think about hospitals and you think about healthcare providers. I mean, is it good that everyone, some portion of everyone's medical records is going to be available for sale online? That's not good. It just makes me happy that I don't go to the doctor.

Right. That's that, which was the plan the, the, the plan the whole, the whole time. Don't eat sugar. Don't eat sugar. Don't eat sugar. Protect your, don't eat sugar and protect you. And that will lead to you being able to protect your data. And make sure that you go to CrossFit with mom at least three times a week. You will live to be 110.

Thank you. Dang. Tom, how long does it take before all of these – it says removing. So as I look at my interface here, what is MePRISM – they've sent – where – let me just pull this up. It says remove 23, removing 30. So MePRISM has contacted these companies companies and they're now doing a dance. Are the companies pushing back? Yes.

Yes and yes. So what happens is we, first we find the data. In your case, typically it's between 50 and 100 for somebody who's never kind of done this before. So we locate it, we find it at those companies. There's also an offline search that's part of our legal escalation system that includes other removals that you'll see in a few weeks here.

But basically what's happened, we found those listings at those data brokers. And then we have an automated system that tries to go through their opt-out portal. If that gets frustrated, which oftentimes it does, then there's a whole host of legal escalations that go on. So when you're onboard at vPRISM, we ask you to sign an authorized agent letter, which means that it's about a paragraph long. And it basically says that you're allowing or instructing MePRISM to act on your behalf to find your data from data brokers and tell those data brokers that they have to delete your data. And there's an e-signature at the bottom. We have that because some data brokers will say, well, wait a second, you know what? I know Savant said he wanted the data removed, but you know what? He's got to call us.

That's, of course, intentional because there's so many of these companies, if they were to be able to get away with something like that, you couldn't get all your data removed. So law strictly says, you know, an agent has the right to do this on your behalf so they can get it all done. You do it at scale. So when that data broker, you know, we say remove it and it says pending, it hasn't been removed yet. That's because they haven't abided by the opt-out request. So what happens then is the AI essentially takes a portfolio of information, including our Secretary of State documentation in California, our legal standing, the claim under the law. You know, this is a California resident under CPRA. You're required to remove his data.

Here is the signed act as agent letter. This is going to their privacy officer. Here's the URL of the data that you need to remove. If you think this is a fraudulent claim, please let us know in 15 days. You have 45 days to remove the data under the law. They will then say something like,

we can't find the data. The AAD thing will then repeat the whole process, showing the data and then pointing out that this is a violation of CPRA. And the denial of that will go to the agency who tracks this. Now the privacy officer knows that, okay, these guys aren't going away because the AI

chatbot does not get tired. It doesn't make mistakes, really. And it will keep coming at them like the Terminator. And because it's email, it is a chain of evidence, sir. So their privacy officer who's required to have their email address publicly available under the law has to receive the email, has been notified with all of these companies. Have you had to threaten to sue them? No. have you but you have you had to threaten us to them um uh no no no um so eventually you've been pretty successful they all acquiesce eventually they feel they feel well so there's again there's a few things that are going on the the attorney general in California, Rob Bonta, has been making enforcement actions on behalf of Californians against data brokers who don't abide by this.

were kind of on top of getting the California data referendum up and going are sort of part of the privacy agency in California. And they know what they're doing in terms of the basic principles like, well, wait a second, a person should know what data a company has about them. And obviously, if the person doesn't want their data there and there's no really good business legal reason for it being there, the company has to delete it unless they get consent from the consumer. All very reasonable.

If data brokers aren't doing that, which they're not, then the CPPA, the agency that's run by those very same people and the attorney general goes after them. There's a, you know, if that's good because they're not going against criminals in the street i'm glad to hear they're doing something i i'm just a guy i hear you it's the guy really i'm a super guy you really are super guy hear that about but that's runs in the family apple does not fall far from the tree from what i understand uh tom uh thank you uh it seems like that there's a million aspects of this to talk about i really appreciate you coming on and sharing all this i appreciate you offering the discount code to the uh to the listeners too it's really cool honestly thank you so much for uh

for for having me i'm i'm um i'm um you know i'm i'm inspired and now I'm going to start a podcast to start a podcast. No, to go run some murphs. I'm absolutely not going to, there's no chance I'm starting a podcast. You guys, it's, I can't, like, I already feel like I work too hard and that seems like it's harder. What you guys do seems like it's harder work easy peasy well thank you um uh i will be following closely and um i look forward to you guys uh getting instagram on there when you do get instagram on there i'd love to have you back on and talk about that and what the implications are on the app you got it you got it my friend all right brother thank you and have a great uh have a great weekend thanks you too take care all right cheers bye tom you think he had to pee maybe that was the fastest exit ever he was itching to get out

i think he's got shit to do you were waiting for what question i was waiting 92 minutes for what question whether it works on an app maybe i can't remember i'm just trying to figure that out too oh this shit makes me stressed dude like a tornado like a tornado makes you stressed yeah like a tornado makes me stressed like that's all this i mean there's when i when i pulled this up and i like added my shit on there it's like 108 i have like 200 things on here 200 profiles found with my information i was looking at some of the information they found about me is not even right like they have people who like they claim are my relatives who aren't even my relatives oh really yeah 23 and me shit they just start claiming

people are your relatives just because they're the name is the same oh maybe that's what it is yeah i can't i'm gonna have to sign my my wife and i up for that for sure i can't believe they don't give it to every single i can't believe that cops don't have that well i said uh olivia in here she was talking about how her husband has some sort of app uh here it is uh we're just getting caught up but my husband has been a peace officer for 18 years and has used privacy for cop services multiple times, but his info is still out there. Some agencies do pay for it.

I can't remember who told me, but someone told me. I imagine if you... You broke up, Caleb. I don't know if it's me or you. Oh, sorry. It's me. I imagine... My internet's been fucked up this morning too yeah me too okay imagine if it's uh if it's brought up to the to your agency like as an important thing that needs to be used especially in your bigger cities

like your la and uh new york city you have like your nypds and shit um if you bring it up to them i'm sure they would be more than happy topds and shit um if you bring it up to them i'm sure they would be more than happy to provide that and like just you think you're out there all the time i would i would think so and something then fucking everyone should bring it up for sure there there there there is some great tornado footage from yesterday yesterday There is some great tornado footage from yesterday. Yes, there is. I think he's been wearing it.

He hasn't taken that Subaru sweatshirt off in three weeks. Probably, yeah. This is the only hoodie I brought with me. This is all I got. I'm not going to go buy another one. Hey, so when you show up there, they don't give you like a grab. It's not like showing up to the CrossFit Games as an athlete. They don't give you a grab bag

like an Air Force sweatshirt and a pair of no. I'm so stupid. They tell you before you show up, they're like, hey, this is what you need to bring. If you don't have it, you need to go buy it and bring it. And then when we get here, they're like, hey, this is what you need to bring. If you don't have it, you need to go buy it and bring it. And then when we get here, they're like, oh, you also need this stuff. So go buy it and come and fucking wear it if you want to.

The crash crucible. You don't want to be a buddy fucker and not have what you not have your shit. Because then if you don't have it, then nobody can wear it. So like if I if I don't have a beanie, but all my all my dudes have beanies we can't wear a beanie when it's fucking no shit 50 degrees no shit and that was oh and that makes you a buddy fucker yeah then you're a buddy fucker because now everybody's that's like if someone yeah if someone shows up late to my kids tennis class they all run sprints it happens and it happens all the time buddy i can't believe the kids. And does everyone point it out?

Like my, the kids in my kids' tennis classes, they don't do it, but I would, I would socially humiliate. So if someone does that, you'll be, everyone looks at him like,

dude, buddyfucker. They're like, fuck you, dude. You just like, now we're fucked. Like somebody forgot to bring something back to one of the instructors.

And the instructor goes, okay, well y'all are fucked on Monday. If he doesn't come back by, by Monday, then y'all are fucked on monday if he doesn't come back by by monday then y'all are fucked same thing like uh somebody didn't shave the other day and they're like if you don't rectify this by lunch then monday comes around the punishment's severe you're like oh fuck for everybody for everybody yeah yeah oh what's this what's a blue falcon i think i remember i was talking about that before that's oh okay um make the parents run the parents are supposed to text the kids or the parents are supposed to

text the someone's supposed to text the coach if you're if you're late my kids are so worried about being the buddy fucker that even if like we we were like in the parking lot 10 minutes we're never late but if even when we're there and we have 10 minutes till class starts i'll be can you text him can you text him i'm like no the the instructor told me this the other day he knows um i said to my wife i'm like do you always text the instructor before you know when you're driving there she goes yeah the kids want me to do it. And the instructor always knows who's bringing my kids because my wife will always text. We might be late.

She feels the pressure from the kids. I always tell the kids, oh, shit, we're going to be late. Or I'll even move the clock ahead in the car so that they're freaking out thinking we're late when we're not. Oh, geez. That's quite the psychological games, man. That's funny. Yes. Yes. So That's funny. Yes. Yes.

So yesterday's show went good. Hell yeah. I, the reviews are in. I cannot believe next Saturday. You know, this yesterday's show took like 30 minutes before Brandon Smith, like kind of stepped up, grew a set of balls and stepped up and went against uh in the kill Taylor episode and on Saturday I wonder how long it's going to take like I basically want the show to start right so as soon as we come on it's like hey and then we go within like two minutes like Taylor's working out right right and I don't think it's going to take 30 minutes next week i think people are going to be like fuck it i'm doing it i think so too i think people not like you just get what's going

to happen most of the time you can't even hear what we're commentating anyway so if you're scared of what people are going to say about you like you probably won't be able to hear it for the entire time you're working out you should be scared but it's also you shouldn't be it's gonna it's funny everyone loves you right we're's funny. Everyone loves you. Right. No one actually thinks less of you. Everyone wishes kind of they would do it. Someone wrote, when are the new shirts shipping? I don't fucking know.

Have the new shirts shipped out yet? I think if they weren't put in before this weekend, it'll be when Travis gets back. I think he posted something about being at crash. And, uh, so shipments are going to be delayed until he gets back from crash crescendo.

So, so, Oh, he's there. He's there. Yep. He's got a whole spot set up at crash right now. So my toothy and put up to $500 last week.

So, so we have that 500. I forgot to ask. I should have asked Dale before I spent his money. And then the Doc Spartan crew put up the first $500. And then he doesn't know that. No one tell him. And then so no one won that.

So that's in the bank. And then this week, Vindicate's putting up $500. So the prize money, if you can beat Taylor this week, is $1,000. No shit. Yeah. This week, Vindicate's putting up 500 bucks. So the prize money, if you can beat Taylor this week, is 1,000 bucks. No shit. Yeah. And here's the thing, guys. You have to realize that just because you can beat him, the chances of you getting picked are slim to none as this thing fucking gets crazier and crazier. Because the text messages are going to come in.

crazier and crazier because the text messages are going to come in and um i'm just i just i just i have a phone not this phone but i got another phone over here and i'm just going to click the text message and send someone a link i don't i can't even i don't know who any of the names are oh what is this hi steve on this is amanda smith the winner of the born primitive card from taylor self versus the world oh i i don't check test messages on this what what do you want should i what should i write back here what do you want my born primitive gift card yeah i can't take amanda if you're listening you gotta you gotta like uh dm caleb or suzer or me or something like or the seven podcast i can't i can't do business on this phone i I wonder if maybe

you should DM the Sevan podcast. How do I submit my score for Beat Taylor? Shut the fuck up. You don't. I mean fucking do it live. Ding dong. Yeah, it's just crazy. The shit that's coming. Anyway, you'll the way it works is I just randomly will pick them.

So there may be if it's going to be tough to get in and get the money, but the good news is it's just going to keep piling up. But, like, last week was probably easy money for, you know, if you thought you could beat them. Look at this. My picture's on a shirt. This is crazy. I can't believe he actually makes those that's a fucking cult shirt it's the color is great i wear it all

the time it's probably weird that i wear a shirt with my picture on it do you have one of those would you wear it out yeah i have this blue one i wear it all the time i like the blue makes my shit brown eyes pop no i don't know i'll tell you which one i i don't wear this camo one um i wear this one a lot this one's a little snug on me so i have to be like even though it's a large, the American flag one's my favorite, but I wear it the least. Cause it was like, I wear the visor every day.

Um, I drink out of the cup every day. I wear the hat, uh, probably leaving hat season. Summer's here. I wear the black and I wear black. And then I wear these CEO shirts every single day. I'm sure.

I wonder what people think in the world. They must think I'm fucking crazy. I started going to the same places regularly and I realized that I start, I'm wearing the same thing every time I go there. So I think that people are starting to recognize that I wear the same shit every day. That you represent CEO and Subaru. Exactly.

It is a little weird. Like if I go out with some CEO stuff on and my kids have some ceo stuff on and my wife has some ceo stuff on it's like it's like where those it's like the the black couples in high school they would always like wear the same jumpsuits like the the boys and girls like they would like that the girlfriend and boy would dress the same her husband his wife i'm with him that kind of thing that's just disney world wearing the same shit yeah oh yeah that is who it is it's like it's like um obese white people who are carbohydrate addicts and black people like they'll dress up with their mates that's and seven yeah and me the metosians i fall under the black thing

right right right right right i really wish i really I would love my kids just to wear track suits. Really? Yeah. I'm going to type into Google black guy track suits. See what I get. Oh, yeah, dude. What's funny is that now we have so many so many CEO shirts that like my parents will wear them too

so whenever I'm with them we'll go out to dinner or something and they'll that's awesome all of us are just wearing them yeah dude my kids could rock the shit out of this I would so put Avi in that or this Bruce Lee one

holy shit oh this Bruce Lee one. Holy shit. Oh, shit. Bruce Lee. I would put Avi in this Izod one. Oh, my God. This one is crazy, dude. Oh, my God. That's so nice.

Lacoste. Holy shit. That's just the sweatshirt, too. Just the sweatshirt's $120 just the sweatshirt it's 120 bucks they just don't make any of this stuff for kids oh my god look at this one this like velour one anyway that nike one's cool yeah i would love to dress my every time i look on amazon for track suits they're they're just That Nike one's cool.

Yeah, I would love to dress my... Every time I look on Amazon for tracksuits, they're just ridiculous. Camo tracksuit, yeah, that'd be awesome. Oh, look at Standy Randy, Lesbaroo. Lesbaroo. That's right. Only lesbians drive Subarus. only lesbians drive subarus my live calling show notes are absolutely wild i'm so excited to do a live calling show i have so much crazy shit we're doing that tomorrow yeah hopefully i'm gonna i'm just gonna play

this for you but i'm gonna play this tomorrow too have you seen this footage of greta thunberg's titties going around yes have you seen this shit there's no way that's real i i stopped in um and like when i saw this i showed my wife i'm like look at these look at this fucking rack on this little kid so she she's an adult now she grew up yeah she's definitely she's definitely adult now before i play this i better look at age she's 21 21 okay 21 yeah i i wonder if someone's putting it to her this is this is crazy have you guys seen this okay you have to listen and read at the same time. It's kind of... Uh-oh, I think my wife's coming.

Okay, here we go. Here we go. I got to go now. She's grown. The gloves are in perfect condition. Where's the oil? All right, check them cannons. She loves me. Man. Two big reasons for global warming.

She's a big actor. Part of the elitist. Get her the fuck out of my city. Don Schmidt. Great commercial for great t-shirts. Damn, is she 18? Free her and take Nikki instead. Or she throwing vegan grenades at everyone.

Greta, you are not a child anymore. We all see it. There's so many great one-liners in there. Tice titties. Oh my god. I'll play this again tomorrow. I could listen to this all day. Tice titties Tice nitties Cannons

Oh my god Four gauge Isn't she retarded like Asperger's syndrome I think she is I think she got She has too right I mean she's like whatever Hiller got Asperger's Yeah she has she's right i mean she's not she's like whatever hillar got asper andrew got yeah she has that

did you did i need to find this audio oh maybe here have you seen this oh no it's not that fuck there's there there's this there's this guy fuck it i'm just gonna share that oh god it's so much good stuff do we really have um a live calling show tomorrow tomorrow show is gonna be nuts there's so many funny things out there right now oh yeah okay 7 a.m tomorrow fuck it hey oh sorry andrew i didn't know you're listening i was joking you're fine you You're all good. You get, Hey, but you know,

you know what, Andrew, uh, fuck you, David. Um, uh, the thing is, is you could tell how,

you know, Andrew doesn't really have autism is cause when, uh, he got like all fucking twisted up around the judging and bill lay, he thing. And that wasn't like, you got emotional about it yeah that wasn't ego that was um it's a cousin of ego it's an yeah just human yeah it was like a cousin of ego like pride or something or like like like just a um self like personal responsibility

accountability like just can't can't figure out i need anything i should have mom that was a great show talking to him about that i loved it because really there's nothing on the line not no no kid got molested no one died but it's just where he's put a shitload of energy and like and it makes me want to throw up that he fucking they still fucked him up yeah like i don't think andrew's problem is what happened publicly i think it's just how he feels about his relationship with bill lahey i mean he fucking went there for seven or eight days right he did he went there to help him yeah he went there to help him yeah yeah yeah yeah they're like oh really you're gonna hire a judge you're gonna hire the whole the whole thing is so the whole thing is so crazy because

literally if you were to pick someone to be like i guarantee you if we did a poll we should do a poll let's do a poll tomorrow let's not do it now let's do it tomorrow if you were to pick a judge who would you pick for your fucking judge andrew hiller um uh one of the lgbq judges professional organization of lgs judges or um you're a philly donor and you want to make it to the games like everyone would pick hiller like like still anyone would pick him that's the best we got so whether you like what happened or not like that's still the best we got and hey maybe hill is just one of those guys who's like a really good coach but can't play the sport you know what i mean like you've seen that fat motherfucker who like coaches

you know what i mean maybe maybe he's great at fucking like he's like that what's the fat coach you can barely move is he the coach of the kansas city chiefs the guys uh cleveland browns oh yeah the guy from kansas city chiefs yeah that That fucking white guy. Fat white guy is bigger than John Candy. He's he's frail as shit. Like I bet you that guy couldn't like I. No, not that guy. It's probably the guy from the Cleveland Browns then. Or maybe it's the 49ers. There's some. Oh, maybe it is that guy. Yeah. The Walrus. Maybe it is that guy. Yeah, it's crazy. Is that the guy that got pushed on the sideline by one of his players yeah yeah that guy is fucking a bitch i mean i don't mean that in a negative way that guy is like a world-class pussy

like my seven-year-old could whoop that dude's ass like punch him in the gut punch him in the kidney spin around and just kick him in the kneecap that dude's toast he'd probably absorb it all though and and but he's fucking the greatest coach alive right now he's fucking on a tear he might end up being the greatest coach of all time right with this with this uh with the knee knocker quarterback the weird quarterback mahomes who has the weird body and uh maybe hillar's that maybe hillar's the greatest coach ever but noter's the greatest coach ever, but not the greatest. The coach of referees, but not the greatest referee ever. Why is Coach Stomach move like, oh, yeah, can I see that? Oh, yeah, let me see. What the fuck is that brown thing?

Jumping jacks, sit-ups, climbed the wall and ran. But none of this fancy shit. Okay? Right? And they won two world wars. Two world wars by doing jumping jacks, pushups, and sit-ups. Two world wars. You think they were worried when they're running across

Normandy about fucking stretching? Are you kidding me? A few people might have pulled a hammy. What? One step. Every time he says sit-ups, his stomach elevates off of his fucking cock and balls.

Hey, I totally recognize the way he, his body moves with the super obese. Did you see that? Like the way he scratches his arms and shit and the way he has to maneuver around his body. Like it's right, man. What size is that shirt?

Quad XL. How did you find that clip of the, how did you, would you just put in in obese NFL coaches? That was nuts. Cleveland Browns fat coach. That's what I looked up. Jesus Christ.

I'm so... Let me tell you. Yesterday, I was high as a fucking kite. You don't even know. And today, I'm coming down a little bit. I was scared I was going to come down really hard i was wow he's cool looking though i ain't gonna i ain't like i like him i like the way he talks

he's cool looking i just feel like that just man that's a lot of work yeah that's a lot of work yeah for sure so that's an official Cleveland Brown Shirt even Yeah they made that They probably had to make like 20 Just for him Hey dude that dude can fall asleep That dude could fall asleep anywhere

He probably falls asleep in O-line meetings Yeah He'll probably be like going over film And he'll just Kenny hit his standard burpee bro sir trolls a lot if that dude that dude can't even tie his own shoes what's that guy's name pull some images of him i bet you he wears slip-ons oh he definitely hasn't seen his penis in forever yeah i mean when you're that big there's some

weird you got you live a different um yeah unique body style he's uniquely unique body style thank you mason that's what i'm trying to say let's see shirts by omar the 10 maker i don't know what that means yeah dude uh how could i not be high as a kite yesterday's show was nuts yesterday's show was nuts. Yesterday's show was nuts. Oh, yeah. He got that fat around his cock and balls. You see that?

Yeah. Where his hands are. He's got to stuff it in his waistline. They call that... The technical term for that is fupa let me see some other see if you can oh let me see can you zoom in on his shoes i want to see what shoes he's wearing he's got those like white nike orthopedic shoes oh all right so he does have his shoes tied my bad sorry oh high calorie HCH. That's a nice term. High-calorie.

Yeah, that's... Dude, that's a really... I might use that instead of fat motherfucker. Be a little bit more inclusive? I just think it's nicer. It sounds nicer. High-calorie human, but it's still funny. Can I use that, Mason?

I'm going to put a little sticky note here. Jesus Christ. HCH. HCH. Hiller's on TRT and that, and that guy's a HCH. Jesus. That guy's on high calories.

Yeah. That, that mustache. That, That that mustache That uh Now I know some of you aren't going to believe this next thing i'm going to show you But I I verified this so pat lang you don't need to verify this if you don't want it I I watched this like five times oh shit i did the wrong i watched this like five times i'll play this tomorrow too you guys ready here we go here this true shit is niggasaurus so that's just how you gonna start the video off

the dinosaur probably didn't even know his name was niggasaurus and the dude who said that look sounded way too comfortable his name was Niggasaurus. And the dude who said that sounded way too comfortable saying- This is Niggasaurus. So that's just how you're going to start the video off. Dude, that's a real dinosaur. Oh, if you believe in dinosaurs. Did you freeze, Caleb? Caleb froze.

I can't see Caleb. Oh, Caleb's gone. He don't want to be around this piece. That can't see Caleb. Oh, Caleb's gone. He don't want to be around this piece. That's not real stuff. My son's autism shtick is dinosaurs. Autism shtick? Your son's autism shtick? That is a real dinosaur.

That is a real dinosaur. I looked it up. I don't know if I would have shown the piece if I thought that that wasn't a real dinosaur. That is a real dinosaur. I looked it up. I don't know if I would have shown the piece if I thought that that wasn't a real dinosaur. That is a real dinosaur. I don't believe in dinosaurs. Okay, fine. But as far as the fake dinosaurs go, that's a real fucking dinosaur.

Look at Caleb's like, I'm out. I'm talking about the Niggasaurus. What? I wasn't here for that. I'm glad I was out for that one hey oh he's super focused on dinosaurs let me I'm gonna pull it up for you yeah it's real

so CNN.com it was named in Niger yeah it's real uh so cnn.com it was named in Niger it had the long neck of a diplodocus up to 1000 teeth and it's intricate jaw

yes so it got the name what is the dinosaur with 100,000 teeth? Is it 100,000 or 1,000? I don't know if I believe in dinosaurs either. Has anyone seen one? Do they actually find the bones or do they actually put them together? What's the deal with dinosaurs?

I think they find the bones together and then they just pull them all out and piece them together. Have they ever found like a full, uh, have they ever found like, is there, anyway, am I going down this fucking, I don't know what to believe anymore.

I had some, I had some friends over the other day and we were, we watched a video on the moon landing. Oh really? Like it was bad. Like it was, didn't happen. It was a guy on,

it was a guy on Rogan saying it didn't happen, but it's like, like half the shitty saying that's proof that like it didn't happen i don't even understand what he's saying uh the g-force of the velocity of the blah blah blah you would need twice as much fuel i'm like listen motherfucker i don't even like i have to assume that i understand g-force and velocity and gravitational pull and i have to believe you and how much fool was in the rocket and like i'm i can't how about just show me like i like just what joe rogan said they showed the fucking saturn 5 taking off from the moon and he's like how did it take off there's no fire on the bottom and i was

like well that i can that's a good question there you go yeah i'm like all right all right. All right. There's a, there's a new movie coming out called fly me to the moon. Uh, and it's about filming. Oh, that was going to be good. Whatever Caleb was going to say. It's about what filming, what,

how they made up. It was about what it's about filming. What say it? I want to hear that. I can't see you moving, but I want to hear what you were saying what's the movie called fly me to the moon caleb you're back i see you caleb oh look he's getting pissed he can't see us i don't think fly me to the moon. Can you hear me? Yeah, I hear you.

I hear you. Oh, that's a Frank Sinatra movie. Fly me to the moon. Look, he got the Death Row. Fly me to the moon trailer. Okay, I have to go. You know what I'm doing right now, you guys? You won't even fucking believe what I'm about to do.

I'm doing something that's so... What is the story of Fly Me to the Moon? The film tells the story of marketing genius Kelly as her collateral collides with... I've been given difficult... All right. I have to go to a neighborhood meeting, Caleb. What? Yeah.

Why? Because to figure out who's going to pay for a road if it ever breaks down there's been like 20 and i've never gone and now they're like hey you're the only person who's never been to one of these i have to go at 9 30 you have to walk up the street i'm only going to go for 10 minutes i'm gonna have to like interact with people i hate that. Me too. That sounds horrible. Me too. I had to go to the store yesterday and I just, it was, and I had to go to,

I had to go to a Walmart. Oh, with all the bright lights and shit. Yeah. And everybody's got like meth mouth and shit and they're all fat. I, my sister makes fun of me because I tell people I live in the country and I have some friends visiting right now i'm like hey do you think i live in the country and they're like totally they're from the city right they're from berkeley i'm like oh that's awesome i live in the country

i mean compared to them lost all my i don't want to socialize with anyone i don't like fluorescent light bulbs none of that shit hell yeah i'm anxious as fuck yeah i'm anxious i don't want to see them someone's going to say something stupid like someone's going to say something like we have to fix the road and it's because it's going to break down faster because of climate change i'm going to be like what's that right and then you're fucked now you're in deep can you explain can you yeah now i'm fucked yeah like fuck i'm just gonna be like fuck you no I'm not doing HOA fuck you Troy fuck off I'm sweating now okay fuck this

I'm done talking to you guys you guys aren't helping anyway will you be here tomorrow at 7? yes I really want to talk about next Saturday I can't stop thinking about Kill Taylor yeah yeah that's exciting Really want to talk about next Saturday. I can't stop thinking about that kill Taylor. Yeah Yeah, that's exciting. Oh, do you know you live in Alaska always forget that?

She's got to be one of the coolest people in the chat. Yeah, I agree Oh Bridge update show for about my road. All right. Well, okay. So basically I'm going to do my meeting right now. I have to be there at nine 30. Then I'm only staying for 15 minutes. Cause I have to take my kids to their jujitsu class.

They got privates on Saturday morning and then I'm free the rest of the day. Maybe we can hang out again. I have friends over is UFC on tonight. How could I not know that? I think so. I think it is. It took last week off oh today at 4 p.m okay god oh the guy fighting in the co-main event ryan span he's that's a good

fighter all right that'll be cool yeah oh tim means is good damn that is this is probably the weakest card I've ever seen. It's tough to follow up UFC 300. Yeah. Wow. Holy shit, that's a bad card. Alright, and then I'm going to dinner tonight with Greg. Alright, maybe I'll take a picture of that. And then I'm going to dinner tonight with Greg. All right.

Maybe I'll take a picture of that. Hopefully, I'm going to see if I can get Dave to go. That'd be sweet. Are you saving your unhinged? I don't have unhinged rants, Sharon, which rhymes with Karen. Wear your MAGA hat That would be amazing Dude I don't know if you know how incendiary

That would be Dude I should try to see if I can get my mom to put that on Oh fuck that'd be amazing What a trip Uh Sevalon you wanna talk about Hogs with Jake Oh, fuck. That'd be amazing. What a trip. Seven, you want to talk about Hogs with Jake, Poolboy, and I tomorrow on Glinton? That's who is all going to be on there?

Wow. Send me. I have her. I follow that page and notifications turn on. Someone send me the time for that. I'll watch that and troll you fuckers from the comments. Alright. Caleb, thank you. Love you guys uh see you guys soon uh buh-bye