The Standup with ThePrimeagen - Casey HATES this graph

Episode Date: March 20, 2026

Ship with confidence. Try Sentry: https://trm.sh/sentry This week on The Standup, we start with snack addictions and somehow spiral into one of the most unhinged breakdowns of tech, startups, and internet culture yet. TJ, DV, Casey, and Trash Dev are back—debating failed Apple products, LinkedIn nonsense, terrible data visualizations, and wild AI takes. Somewhere in the chaos, we even touch on algorithms, complexity, and why most of it doesn’t mean what people think it does. Chaotic, honest, and pretty much how developers actually talk. If you’ve ever questioned the tech industry… this one’s for you.

Yum Earth. If you're out there, sponsor us for eating these. Trash, I got your face. You guys want to see what my new snack addiction is? By the way, this is what we have on Spotify is TJ and Trash talking about snacks. True. True. Trash, this is what I'm safe. Bro. This is what I have. I ordered them. All right. Hold on. Before we start, this is my new snack addiction. So in the back corner, I have this box of these things called Popcorners. Yeah.

They're so good. There's this flavor called spicy Koso. I ordered a box. I ordered it in bulk of just that flavor, and they came in this morning, and I'm just going to destroy that whole box today. It's good every time. Every time. It's so good. Spicy queso, popcorners, whatever. Amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.

Welcome to the stand-up. Today, we have two very special topics, and as always, we have TejDV, we have Casey Muratory, and we have Trash Def, all of them. legendary developers from the legendary Twitter community here to talk about the hottest and greatest parts that are happening right now in tech today. I kind of, I like the legendary intro, bro. Moniker inflation is good.

Like pretty soon we're going to be like, created the entire internet by themselves. Yep. Casey, can we say, you know, undisputably, this is the most listened to stand up in the entire world. Good point.

Prove us wrong. This is the greatest, most listened to stand-up of all time. It's the only stand-up people look forward to listening to every week. There you go. Yep. Okay, what is our first to- I buy it. Great question, Casey.

All right. Oh, wait, you know what? I just realized I actually know what the first topic is, so I can go ahead and introduce it. Okay, let's do it. The first topic for today is actually that this is the six-month anniversary. Nope, it's not that prime. Oh, no. Sorry.

This is the six-month anniversary of Teage being 100% wrong about the Apple sling for the phone. I marked it on my calendar. He said in six months, you're going to see this. And I said, nope, in six months, nobody in the United States will be wearing this thing. Literally, no one. And it is, in fact, no one. go, Casey, because I got tagged. Someone saw it in the wild and tagged me. Like a guitar center. AI. Rondevo. Complete AI fabrication. Clearly. Let me find it. Let me find it.

Clearly. For those that don't know, this is what he's talking about. It's called the Apple. Holy cow, this is just so weird. It's called the Apple Sling. And this thing was marketed for like 60 bucks or 70 bucks. And the idea was that you'd wear your cell phone on the side. Now, T.J. or Casey, Trashy. and I laughed about it said there ain't no way anybody's ever going to use that. TJ on the other hand said SF is going to be filled to the brim with them. Yes, he did. I don't think that's the direct quote. Every man, woman, and child will have one of these slings on.

I didn't even see one in SF. Okay, I'm busying it in chat right now, Prime. Okay, Twitch chat, I assume. Yep, Twitch chat right now. So that was it. That was the entirety of the topic. We don't need to discuss it further. I just wanted it.

recognized that there no one wants this. That is one in the wild. That's the person. That is the one that they sold. They sold one of them. They probably gave it away. They probably gave it away. He had to take it off his body to use his phone once because when you do it on your body,

it's probably a little inconvenient. Here we see the elusive programmer, a simple creature that spends most of its time working alone, often in darkness. Well, what's this? Someone being wrong in the internet. Our coder springs into action, reaching top speeds of 120 words per minute before flash! A light mode website, the natural enemy of these code lovers, stuns our friend. The chase is called off. We'll have to get them next time.

When not on their computers, they can spend hours drawing crude symbols than something they call whiteboards. Researchers have discovered thousands of dialects, often with more than a dozen used in a single office. However, no linguist has yet deciphered what their purpose is. Vane creatures, their bodies have evolved over a millennia to be able to sit in an unused. posture while looking at themselves online. This will often last for many hours. Using the excuse, they're waiting for code review, repressed to why they're so inactive.

And finally, after a long day of accomplishing very little, our keyboard warriors ready for bed. Quick read and its lights out. Good night, little coder. So how do I sleep so well at night? Well, I have century to help me crush those bugs. And I'm not talking about little teen tiny South Dakota bugs that die in the winter. I'm talking about big, mean jungle bugs.

And I'm not scared of any of them, by the way. But I can squash those bugs with sear by century. I'll admit I was wrong. I guess I, you guys more correctly estimated the sanity of Apple developers. I under underestimate or Apple buyers. I thought for sure that because it was stupid, they were going to buy it. Fair enough. We're not that stupid.

Okay. Fair enough. Maybe, can we say, can we say, maybe in a different economy, maybe in a different, I think it was just that. No, we can't. Because Apple's whole thing is they try to sell products to people based on the cachet. Like, they are, they have a brand image. That's true. And this is totally counter to it in the U.S. anyway.

Maybe in other, you know, maybe there's other cultures where this like was kind of more of a thing that people did. and they're just, you know, it's for those regions or something, and that's fine. But in the U.S., I was like, this doesn't fly. Because Apple has a brand image, and this is so far away from that image, it's exactly like the Vision Pro. I don't even know why the company shipped. It baffles my, it blows my mind, it's completely baffling. And it's something that I can't imagine happening if the ghost of Steve Jobs were still haunting the headquarters, which apparently it's not. He is definitely not.

30 bucks. He moved on. He's somewhere else. But so anyway, that's it. Now the actual first topic of the stand-up. So the actual first, let me do a quick intro here. The actual first topic. Round three.

Is going to have to be T.J. Trash and Casey guesses. What does LinkedIn have to say? Now, I'm going to say a phrase. I had to fire Teach. Now, before I show it to you, what is? The LinkedIn translation of I had to fire Teach. What does this mean?

LinkedIn translation? Yes, it's an automatic LinkedIn translator that takes my normal phrase. And transforms it into LinkedIn. It's like a five paragraph post. Yeah, it's going to be really long. This is one of the hardest decisions that we've had to make. But the company is strong and this only puts us in a stronger position. Teage was a very valuable employee and did a lot of great things.

and we're really looking forward to what he does next. That's great. Trash. I was thinking more of like something happens in real life. So it's like I went to the bagel store, but the bigel person ended up burning my bagel, which somehow reminded me of Teage burning down the code at work, which made me realize and reflect upon his recent performance.

And now I had to hashtag lay him off. Something, some, some. That's great. I was going more with, Teage has been my best friend since we founded this company. We've been through hard times. We've been through good times. We've worked together.

He came to my wedding. I went to his. He's the godfather of my child. Unfortunately for him, it's time to grind even harder. Hashtag grind, hashtag hard. And so to do that in the age of AI, I have an agent that says you are Teage and you are good enough to do exactly what he did for me. So I laid off my technical co-founder and worshiping 10. thousand lines of code today. Buy my course below to also ship like this. Wow. All right. To tell you the

truth, it was in fact Casey who did the good job. Today I'm sharing one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make as a leader. I've had to part ways with my co-founder Teage. Growth isn't always a straight line and sometimes the hardest part of the journey is realizing when paths needed to verge to protect long-term vision of the company. It's about radical candor making tough dolls and staying true to the mission. I'm incredibly grateful for the lessons during this chapter onward and upward. hashtag leadership, hashtag founder life, hashtag

growth mindset. T.J. That's a T.J. Point. I think the hashtag, see, I don't read LinkedIn so I didn't know they were hashtag obsessed. That I totally miss that. They are the biggest fans ever of hashtags. This is why I can't be on that website

because I vomit in my mouth a little bit. All right, well, this was inspired due to this post, which was unirited. ironically put on here, which is Michael and I are separating romantically. We're not breaking up as co-founders and we're not stepping away. I never got the actual full thing. No! No!

It's actually happened. No. That's not real. That is real. Quick question. Did that guy happen to make an app about tracking when your wife leaves the dishes in a sink? Yeah. Yes.

Oh my gosh. I love the idea of like, if, Instead of saying I broke up or we're getting divorced, it's like, we're announcing a change in our chief bedroom officer. Oh, like the CBO? We are currently going into a phase where we're going to search for our new chief bedroom officer. We have a lot of promising candidates. We want to make sure we find the right match. I played on interviewing a lot in the next six months.

Yeah. Dude, that's the new Tinder pickup line Looking for a CBO. Yeah, looking for a CBO. All right. Someone else's like... I like that. I'm serving as interim CBO right now.

But it's not long-term. Man, that interview process is crazy. I am avoiding saying anything. I'm smart. That's smart. Next topic. Quick, quick. We're going to actually get to the real,

topic of the stand-up, I saw somebody on the internet post this right here. It's the complexity visualizer. Now, this was posted by STEM Explorer. Presumably a Twitter account about exploring STEM. Like the thing in the flowers? Yes. T.T reached deep for that pun because it was okay. And so they gave us a complexity visualizer, Big O notation race, in which they have

of 1, O of N, O of N, O, N squared, and then of course, 2 to the end. Kind of like your classic situation. Now, this reminded me immediately of when Casey had an absolute meltdown on the internet over the ball diagram. We had several videos. This is actually worse. This is actually worse. I didn't know if it could get worse than the balls. Well, it's kind of, there's two different things.

So the meltdown over the ball video, I mean, obviously, like, I always criticize ball videos. Because- Classic known ball-criticiver. Yeah. When developers feel the need to show their balls off to the entire world like that, and I'm just sitting there going like, that's a job for the CBO, am I right, boys? Yeah, exactly.

Chief Ball Officer. Well, Internet Chief Ball Officer Ben Dickin, who at this point is now infamous for these ball diagrams, and loves it, by the way. Like, he, as far as I can tell, he is leaning into the balls. and and uh because you know he posts them to get to get engagement like that's you know he's trying to do uh he's trying to get people to interact with his uh social media and so like you know people people saying these are awful is just as good as people saying they're bad i assume i don't really know but anyway the problem with those ball diagrams Casey, are you fundamentally opposed to men leading into ball doctors? No, what I'm saying is that he was leaning into it. I'm not making a value judgment.

If a man wants to lean into their balls or anyone's balls on social media, that's entirely up to them, in my opinion. I don't think that we should be telling them what to do or not to do. That's my opinion. That's just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. So anyway, my problem with the balls was that there are, bad way to visualize data, A, but the reason,

but that happens a lot. So there's a lot of people who post their balls on the internet and it's just like, okay, this may be the thing that they were posting was actually fine. They happen to want to show you their balls instead of just putting the data in a better format. And I'm just like, could you not do that?

Because it's a really, it's, I understand it's eye catching and that's why you're doing it, but it's a very bad way to visualize data. And like, there's even, like, you can literally go find studies people have done. where they've looked at how people, like, react to different ways of presenting data. And motion is, like, one of the worst things to use to try and get people to conceptualize the differences between things. Like, humans are horrible at comparing, like, the rate of movement of things as compared to just the sizes of them, right?

So... That makes sense. Yeah. So it's just a bad idea for a chart. It's only good when you're trying to bait social media engagement, which, to be fair, like I said, I think Ben Dickin knows. So he's kind of off the hook in a sense for that part of it. So really, because that's what he was trying to do, and that's fine.

The reason I was so grumpy about those is because the data was wrong. That was also true. Ben Dickens' data is usually also wrong, right? So he makes a repository. He invites people to contribute to the repository. The contributions are terrible, generally speaking. They're just all over the map. And then they graphs them as if they compare, like, language performance.

but they don't at all, right? And so it's just not like, it's bad, it's misleading, and that's why I get upset about that. The balls are kind of, you know, insult to injury, if you will. Like, oh, now I got to look at balls while I see this bad data. It's like, you know, it just makes things worse. So I wanted to clear that up first. This is something completely different.

This is like they posted a graph that literally doesn't show the thing at all. It is very, very true. I've been struggling trying to figure out the meaning behind it for a long time. Oh, Prime was so tilted when he was like, we're going to talk about this. I saw the first one and I was just like, I stopped looking. Like constant time is just a wave like this. I'm like, what?

It should just be like a line, right? Like, what? I don't understand at all. I have no idea what it's even graphing. Like, I have literally no idea. None. I don't know how they, I don't know how they came up with. It's complexity visualized, Casey, says.

It says right there, Casey. It's pretty obvious. Well, I mean, you know, I can't see because, of course, you know, this is Riverside, and so being able to see the thing. I can't read, I can't read any of that. Yep. But like, what's the top one? O1 is supposed to be right? And what's, okay, so O1.

Here's 01. It goes real. It goes. What's the next one? Log n. Log n. Log n. And the next one is N log n maybe?

No, it's just N. This is linear. Oh, okay. We skipped N log in. All right. Then N log in. No, then N log in because it's slower, right? Theoretically, it's slower.

Then N squared. And then two to the end. So each one is like progressively worse by an order of complexity. Understood. Okay. With the couple complexity skipped. So the more squiggles, the worse. Yeah, the more.

So it's supposed to be how long it takes to move from one side to the other, but the squiggles are useless. Yes, correct. The squiggles is like a ball chart. What I was trying to do is count them. I'm like, do the squiggles even go in a pattern that has to do with, like, what the N was? It doesn't even look like that. It'd be very difficult because they erased the squiggly. So if you were supposed to deduce the squiggle density, it's being erased actively.

Actively. Because, like, the top one, so if that's 01, then the constant would have to be like three, right? Because there's three squiggles. So, and we know that N is one, so, you know, the constant would have to be three. If the next one is log n, right, we assume the constant is still three. I mean, I guess there's no reason to think that the constant would still be three, I suppose. But I just try to figure out, is there any way to make this line up? I suppose you could just say, well, the constant changes at each time and that's where the squiggles.

I don't know. I literally don't know. I can't figure it out. There's no way any thought went into. So the thing that really just grinds my gears is that constant time, theoretically, it does not matter upon the input. right it's just about whatever the coefficient is next to the constant time that really that's the constant part and constant time that's the constant part and constant and so the fact that it takes about half the speed is log end really bothers me because constant is a fixed kind of like operating time whereas log end depends on how much input there is and so you can't actually make any sort of relational guess between constant and log in this one they're saying it it's about 60% That kills me on the inside. Right.

On average, constant time is about, or long in time is about 60% as fast as constant time on average. It's like the time every time. Yeah, like on average. It really hurts me so, so much. And then the other part that really gets me is that at the very end, when they're kind of finishing everything up, two to the end, exponential time and quadratic time. Exponential time is like 20% or 15% through and quadratic time. is like 95% way through.

Yep. And so it's just like that is not true even in the slightest, right? It's like at, at end of 10, exponential time is 10 times larger. At n of 11, exponential times larger than N squared. At 12, it's a thousand times larger. Like, none of this makes any sense.

It just driving me just completely insane. This has to be AI generated. There's no way. I assume it is. Well, they wrote code to generate the AI. Oh, did they? This is not AI generated. in the sense that someone came up with this idea and told AI to generate it.

I am so positive that if you told AI like, hey, generate the differences between these times. It would have done a standard graph. It would have been more accurate. It would have been this. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Which this is. I'm looking at that. I'm looking at it. And I'm like, but which one takes longer? I can't even tell. Because where is the ball moving across the street? Right, right. I can't even tell.

Oh my gosh, sorry. I was just so... But that's kind of the point, Tej, right? Like, so one of the important things about complexity is that it doesn't tell you how long something takes. You can have an O1 algorithm that takes a lot longer than an ON algorithm for some N. This is true. Classic array versus set lookup when you're doing stuff. This is just how it is.

And so that's the point of understanding. Like, if you try to convey to somebody that O-N is faster than O-N-Log-N or something like that, you're conveying incorrect information because it's not faster or slower. It scales worse, right? There's a difference between those things. And so, you need, like, even showing anything that implies that there's a speed difference between them is wrong just right out of the gate. Because complexity is not about telling you how fast something ran. And that's critical to understand.

It's so critical that actually in shipping code, in deployment, sometimes you will use algorithms that have worse scaling complexity when you know what the N is because the scaling complexity doesn't matter because the N is low and the constants too high on the scaling version, right? On the lower complexity. So you can have times people deploy an N squared algorithm instead of an N-Log-N algorithm. You can have people deploy an N-Log-N algorithm instead of an O-N algorithm. and so on and so forth, that will absolutely happen, not because the person didn't know what they're doing, but because that was actually the right choice

for the scale of problem they were working on. A quick classic example, Quicksort, often for the last few elements, will switch to insertion sort because it's actually faster to not quicksort on a bunch of small items due to the stack invocation and recursion cost, comparatively to the N squared algorithm,

or standard case, average case of insertion sort. I didn't even know that. Well, QuickSort, Quick sort's n squared. Quick sort, worst case is n squared. Quick sort average case is N log in. And so often inside of those, also with merge sort, you'll break into an insertion sort at the very bottom because it is just better. And so there's a classic example where scaling actually doesn't, you know, is traded off in the middle just because of size.

Wow. I was thinking too, prime of like when we talked to Tiger Beetle a while ago of how they like all of their, like so many places in the code, they have like some assert about. the size of how big something can be because they're also like loading all of it ahead of time and others but so it's like you just say hey I think that this thing should never get over 200 elements or a thousand elements like it's cool because then you can pick something that works really good where n is less than a thousand it's like it's really fast at that thing and then later if that invariant breaks you find out because you have a debug failure like some warning or something that happens in your system that can then you're like oh okay cool so now apparently we have big enough customers

that 1,000 isn't always the case. Sometimes it's like 10 million for some reason or some. We have some pathological customer that does this. So we got to go fix that separately, which I thought was really cool. There's actually a public thing that John Carmack does. John Carmack, if you don't know, does the exact same thing in Doom in a bunch of other places. He would assert like the world can't have more than like 3,000 items. That's just a reality of life.

We would make all of our decisions based off this one thing. Mm-hmm. There's also cases where you know that there's a limiting factor on the other end. Like, for example, if you're like, look, this thing is designed for 10 gigabit, you know, Ethernet uplinks. So there you go. Like, I know how much data is flowing through this thing, and it can't ever be more than that because we don't have, you know, and we're, we will fundamentally redesign this part of the code if we switch to, you know, a higher bandwidth connection or something like that, right? Or this screen, like, we know that we're shipping on this console that only supports 1080P. So that's how many pixels are on the screen.

Like, we know that a particular region of the screen can only have. this many pixels, so we're making decisions based on that. So you can definitely have situations, too, where you even just know. You're just like, look, for the deployment scenario, we actually guarantee there is no physical way that it can have a different thing. And at that point, you're free to

make all kinds of decisions based on, and because you know what it is. But okay, so then how do I know which one's fast? So which one is faster? A lot of people, like, complexity is one of those things where it's like the, it's kind of a, I guess since we were talking about diagrams of and balls and all that,

complexity theory is definitely one of the things that I feel like is a just the tip kind of thing in computer science where it's like, do you need to know complexity theory? A lot of people ask this question, right? Like, do I need to know complexity theory to like be a programmer? You absolutely don't need to know complexity theory because complexity theory is like, like, okay, how do you prove something is NP hard or something? Like, actually knowing complexity theory, I don't know complexity theory. I'm not going to give you a dissertation on P-space or some, like, forget it, right? It's not going to happen.

The bathroom. You do need to know, yeah, you do need to know just the tip. You need to know, like, your basic, like, okay, how do algorithms scale with N roughly in terms of how much memory they use and how much, like, how many concrete operations. whatever that operation is, will they have to do? That's something everyone should know just for the basics, like the ones that were on this diagram, probably not exponential,

because almost nobody uses exponential acceptance situations where... So this may be getting ahead of my... out of my... over my skis a little bit, but I would say that in general, if you're in the realm of exponential time, so you're thinking of things that are like two to the end, complexity or worse,

at that point, you may... start wanting to know more complexity. Like at that point, you're in the realm of hardcore algorithm design where you probably want to know more than just the basics because you're in, you're going to start needing to know things about heuristics, heuristic-based algorithms, randomized algorithms, things that are like not commonly thought about very much in, you know, in work-a-day programming circle.

So once you are doing something that's beyond n squared or n-cubed and you're, you know, out of polynomial time, at that point you may want to know more. But everything below that I'd say is a just-a-tip situation. Casey, what happened if you have a salesman? Okay, and he wants to start in Rapid City, South Dakota. Okay, I'm listening. That's exactly what I was thinking of in my head when I said that.

Because, like, those kinds of problems require a deeper understanding of algorithm design and the ways that we attack problems that are sort of technically infeasible. Like, theoretically, you can't really solve this problem efficiently. But we've come up with lots of ways to, you know, maybe not get the best answer, but get a good enough answer that can be used for humanity to do whatever it was trying to do. Can we prove that we will get the best answer every time? No, but we can get like close, right? And that's, you have to kind of start to know that sort of thing. By the way, just I know we're getting weird slightly off, but FedEx and UPS and USPS, they all have.

have an actual NP problem, which of course is bin packing, because if you have X amount of boxes and you have Y amount of containers and you need to be able to most efficiently pack these boxes, especially along a route, now you also have like multiplexing Dykstra's along with bin packing. Very, very crazy. I mean, they actually have a really hard and interesting algorithm to solve. I mean, even just basic things like your school, what is going on Prime? Oh my God. That will literally break my teeth off my mouth. That's true. That's a nice crust on that, Prime.

It's good. It was good. I just want to taste it, you know. Nothing's gone. If you just think about your local school district, what the bus routes are and which order they go in, that already is like there are companies who specialize in solving that problem because you need heuristic salt.

Like you can't, even just the number of students in your district being 500 or whatever it is, is enough to start to make it be like, we can't, we can't guarantee you a perfect solution. Like, sorry, like, that's just out of the bounds. So we have to do, like, things that, you know, take into account that we have, you know, that we don't have to get it perfect in order for it to be good enough and all these are the sorts of things. At my eye school, Casey, they wrote that down on the whiteboard. They leave it overnight. See if anybody can figure it out.

Any janitor's walking by. Right, any janitors walking by. Wait a minute, I've seen this. Yeah, so we, you know, we always look, and I don't know, last time I looked at that sort of stuff, it was kind of generally expected that, look, a lot of these kind of problems, you can get very close to optimal solutions. You just, they're certain, like, they have these regions of their, of their sort of solution space that are just extraordinarily hard. And so if the input data happens to fall in those areas, you are kind of screwed. if it falls outside of those areas, then it's okay. And you'll typically get the solution you were looking for, right?

So anyway, my point in all of that was just to say, if that's the kind of thing you're doing, you should know more than me about complexity at that point, and you should know more than me about how you go about solving those kind of problems with heuristic approaches, randomized approaches, things like that. Because there's an entire theory of randomized algorithms. It's very interesting, actually, but it's like, I don't know it. and a lot of programmers don't know it

because it doesn't come up that often. Are you ready for part two? So can we say goodbye to our squiggles? Our heartbeat diagram, we can all at least agree, heartbeat diagram. Terrible for complexity visualization. Yeah, I mean, I think what this really is is an open challenge to Ben Dickin.

It was like, look. True. We can, like, STEM Explorer has bested you at every possible axis. Not only is the diagram, even worse than the bouncing balls. But it also is literally not graphing anything even related to the subject, right? So I think that's what I just repost this.

I think I said something like your move, Ben Dickon, because I feel like at this point he has been so thoroughly dethroned that like he needs to come back and hit hard here. I agree. His standard ball diagram is not going to do it. Like, he has been shown up, like, significantly. And you know what? It's going to be sad if he comes out with something and it's not good enough to get on the pod, Ben. Okay.

So, Ben, if you're out there listening, we need something big from you, all right? Yeah. The squad here, we're looking, Q1, that's going to be, you have to deliver by the end of Q2, but we need it in Q1 at the very, you know, that's kind of what I'm targeting. The world is watching, Ben Dickens. The world is locked. They want to see your response to this. Because STEM Explorer came out.

of the gate here first time and just absolutely crushed it. I'm having a DAX moment over here. You are. The one thing I will say about the bald diagram, whether you hate it or not, if the data was accurate, at least there was some level of like meaning, you could kind of gather from and go, oh yeah, I can see this one's slower and that one's faster. By how much and all that you couldn't really gather. This one I can't gather any.

There's actually no information here. Why are the squiggles erasing on? I was I was I was I was gonna try to find a moment to say that I it really bothers me that they end they're getting vacuumed up there's no budget there's no budget for uh to keep them going I just really hate that they break at the end like that right like I mean there's because it it does it with each one of them as they get to the end it like wigs out I don't know we've oh no that's the I'm done mark that's like I finished all right all right we can move on um all right All right, let me get back here just in case we want to cut this as a separate segment. I got to do like a better intro. There we go. You know, on the stand-up, we like to come together and discuss some things that very important people say that make everybody else super upset. And this is just one of those moments where what I've just read somehow is the most infuriating complicit I've ever received.

And I'm sure many people have ever received in their lifetime. And of course I'm talking about Mr. Sammy Jippity Altman right here saying, I have so much gratitude to people who wrote extremely complex software character by character. It already feels difficult to remember how much effort it really took. Thank you for getting us to this point. Mm. Okay, so there's a couple things in here. Pack it up.

We are done. But I do, I really do love this idea that there is no more complex software. because it hidden in this statement is that, like, software complexity is now officially over. Solved. It's actually solved. That's why Claude Codd Codd doesn't flicker anymore, right? This is why GTA6 supposedly will release this year. Like, there is rumors that it's coming out.

Yeah. I mean, I don't, it's like almost, this is similar. These two topics feel very related to me. Right. Because the previous one was like, let's have a competition to see who can post the worst graph. Right. It was like kind of what that was, right? And this, it's like, it seems like that AI people are doing like, let's have a competition to see who like people will dislike the most.

Right. Like, like, how do I become someone someone that literally no one likes at all? And it's worth noting that it's like, including your customers, like, they don't even. even want to be liked by the people who are using their software or they don't know that, like, I mean, unless they're really this unaware that they don't see how insulting that is to even people who are actively using their software currently. I just, it's crazy. It boggled, like, I don't even know if I have a comment on it.

I don't know what to say about this. It's like, it's shocking. I've got a hypothesis, Casey, which is that, you know, they sort of feel like they already won and you know how when you beat a video game, you can play it back on, like, expert mode or like, I've been playing Slade Inspire 2. climbing my Ascension rakes. And each time it adds like more difficulty, right? Like start with a curse.

You don't heal all the way, et cetera. I feel like this is kind of like, okay, well, we already made like a trillion dollars. Can we do it now if nobody likes us? Right, right, right. So they're heaping those things on. They're like, I'm going to win biggest company in the world on Ascension 20, open AI edition. I think that that's probably what.

So you think at the beginning like Sam Altman, you know, for this round starting a company, it popped up those little, like, pick which card you want to start with or whatever. Right. And one of them was, get a lot of money from people, but nobody likes you. And he picked, like, that was the modifier that he chose to play the whole thing on. Exactly. Fair enough.

Right. And then, like, round one was like, it had three options. It was like, start a nonprofit to save the world with AI. But then, like, later, it was like, okay, here's a few forks in the road. One was like continue the nonprofit. Everyone likes you trying to make something for the benefit of humanity. Option two was make a ton of money. When I read this tweet, I had like a visualization of my head as like as I was reading it as him like saying this.

But he was escorting like some old person off the stage like kind of just giving him this backhand comment and then just kicking him off the stage. And then it was like here's the real show kind of thing like because this is the stuff I tweeted this too. but this is like the exact, at least my emotional response was this is a message of like when you lay somebody off. Like thank you for all your hard work at the company. He LinkedIn posted it, bro. Dude, like legit.

And I was just like, man, like, when you're typing these things, if he is the one typing these things, like, does he just hit send? Like, that's a good tweet. Like, I don't know that. Like, what is that scene look like? I would love to see like surveillance of him posting this. I think when you're missing.

is that he's I think he and like Zuckerberg and a few of these people fall into what is known as the lizard category. And so I genuinely believe that he was just like, you know what? There was a lot of people who I've taken all of their work from and then making the biggest company in the universe ever. I need to thank those people. I'm going to thank them right now. Here we go, boys. And like got his team together. Like, okay, hold on.

Oh, man, it was so complex. Step by step. Oh, my gosh. Hand-coded. Character. Richter. But dude, it's like, honestly, it's hard to even remember how hard that was. Does he even know how hard, like, has he ever shipped anything that was like a leaped?

Looped. Looped. What is looped? I don't know what that is. Oh, okay. Pause. I'll do a brown bag lunch on this in a little. Okay.

You did brown bag World Coin, so I do feel like you have to brown bag world. All brown bag looped for you later, Casey. Okay. We'll, we'll bring you up to speed on that. Shervin brings their own lunch, and lunch will not be provided. Just want to make that clear. But I will be providing a presentation

for that, yeah. All right. All right. Yeah, I don't know. This is just really bizarre to me. And it doesn't... So, I think I actually talked about Dimitri. I talked to Dimitri about something like this at one point.

He was obviously on the podcast last week talking about AI stuff. And the way he said it... I don't want to misrepresent them here, but I asked him this question. I was like, given that AI companies will face like a bunch of lawsuits, regulatory hurdles, things like this, they will run into the bureaucratic elements of society and they will have to navigate those, right? And I'll point out, they also will have to navigate things that are worse than that. So, you know, I don't want to say anything that will get us marked badly on YouTube, but let's just say that. a data center is a pretty easy target for civil unrest. I'll put it that way, right?

True. So there's a lot of things that you want, if you were really serious about this, we're like, I want to make a company that does this AI stuff, and I want to make sure that it succeeds and does well. There's a lot of things you would care about with respect to public opinion, and you would never say any of the things that Sam Altman says, ever, right? If you were Sam Altman and you had any self-awareness,

you would not appear in public. You would have somebody else who was your, person who appears in public and it would never be you. That's what you would do, right? Because nobody likes him and when he opens his mouth, he says things that make people very angry. To terms of the general public, right? Not talking about programmers or whatever. We're talking about, like, the general public, when they hear from Sam Altman, they really

don't like it. He was recently just had another one where he talked about how, if you compare the cost of training an AI to how much human consumes, the AI is actually better. Like, no one should ever say, like, if you care about this as actually getting this thing adopted, you would never say anything like that, right? Yes. Because you should have someone out there who understands how actual humans perceive things, right? Which is not Sam Alman. That's that lizard thing I was telling you about it.

It's the lizard thing. You're right about same as Zuckerberg. They have fundamentally no idea what a human is like, even though they've seen them before. They just aren't sure what they do, right? They're like, huh? And so, to me, I was like, why is that? Like, how does no one else step in and go like, because, I mean, you know, when you're looking at a company like OpenAI with these investors putting billions of dollars in it,

someone would, in theory, come along and be like, Sam, thanks for all your hard work. You're not going to be the, they'd palm or lucky him. Like they did at Facebook, right? They're like, you don't get to talk to the public anymore. We're, you know, we're replaced. Like, that kind of thing happened. happens all the time for reasons that are strictly about appearances or public, you know, what is that reference? I sorry, I don't know the Palmer Lucky thing at Facebook. Palmer Lucky,

well, you know, again, trying not to get into politics too much. Palmer Lucky was on the politically wrong side of an issue early on when his company Oculusus was acquired by Facebook, now meta. They weren't obviously meta at the time because they were just acquiring Oculus. and he was basically forced out of a leadership position there. And he ended up leaving the company. And that was purely for political. And he was the, like, to be clear, Wonder Kid, front of magazines super, like previous. He was on the cover of Time magazine.

I do remember him being everywhere. The father of VR, like everything. It wasn't just like, oh, like some random guy got fired. Like, he was the Wonder Kid for them. He was like Jimmy Neutron is like my expectation of him. He was actually like a very talented individual that was like way out there when it comes to talent and building stuff. Yeah. Well, whatever you think about him, he got forced out.

Yeah. Right. Like, no one disagrees with that, I don't think. That's not a controversial thing to say. He did not voluntarily decide to leave Facebook and their VR division because he just wasn't feeling it that day. He got for, like, he was forced to leave the division that he was, you know, that he had, that, was his entire thing he wanted to do. This was the thing that he started in his bedroom doing, right?

He wanted to see if you could use phone displays and stuff like that to produce a real VR headset now was the technology ready, right? And here he was getting the opportunity to do that, and he got forced out for political reasons. So something as simple as that, you can force someone out. They're not forcing Sam Altman out. Right. Nobody's telling Dario to keep his mouth closed.

I wish they would. And so, and my question was. Those articles are pretty funny these days. My question was, why? This is why I asked me, I was like, why? Like, what's going on there? Because surely the investors realize that it's better for this, right? And what he said was possibly somewhat convincing, actually.

What he said was, they have two choices, is what he said to me. One is they garner public support. Or the other is they garner investor support. and they went with investor support. And what he meant by that was, if you tell a story about how AI is just going to be beneficial for everybody and that people won't be losing their jobs and that it will just be like, oh, it'll be easier to get your work done

or whatever it is, whatever the publicly, we're just empowering artists, we're not taking their jobs, that can't raise the level of investment that you can from private investors if you tell them you're putting everyone out of work. So he said they had two choices. one was to go and say that we're putting everyone out of work and we're basically going to be a pariah

because everyone's going to pay us and no one's going to pay anyone else and raise their trillion dollars or they could actually say something positive but they wouldn't be able to raise that kind of money because it doesn't sound like you're replacing the entire industry with one computer and they chose the one that gets them the investment

and I was like okay that's a pretty reasonable way to say that that could very well be the case it makes a lot of sense I didn't even think about it that way at all Well this is why it's great to talk to Dimitri Right, it's why I'm doing that podcast

Is because he has a lot of really interesting things to say And he knows these podcasts He knows those people Like he's interacted with a lot of these people personally He knows a lot of them in that field And so he has like some perspective on why they do what they do And it's like yeah So they could replace Sam Altman

with somebody who was much more appealing to the public and maybe they will after they secure enough trillions of dollars then you're like, okay, thanks, thanks to them, right? Now let's put a nice face on this thing. Then they hire Matthew McConaughey. Exactly. That's who I would hire.

Yeah. I like DJ. Matthew McConaughey, that's the solution to this stuff. I'm telling you, you guys seen him in the Lincoln commercials? I mean, he seems like a guy who you would trust. You know, it's like that makes sense to me. I like Billy Bob Thorin I trust him

Oh okay He can be like I don't stress The bathroom kind of could be like I don't stress about it I just ask chat GPT That's what I'm saying You'd be like He's so right

Bro, he's so right He's so right Just ask chat GPT I can't Well when Matthew McConaghanahe gets hired by Open AI You guys are gonna You guys are gonna eat your words

Right here trash okay I mean I love Matthew McConae too man It's Matthew McCann AI Yes He's going to legally change his name. Like, like, oh, Will I Am did, right?

To the dots. Oh, no. Great, Casey, nice pull. Deep pull, right? Remember when he made a smart watch? No one does. I do. Shakira, these chips don't lie.

Come on. I can't think of anything. Don't be a crazy head campaign. Sitting here. right now, I'm actually slightly shocked that Will I.m. hasn't announced an AI company. Maybe he has it and just didn't make it up. But that would be so something

he would do, right? His black eyed peas, right? Originally, yes, but then he had his solo career. I was trying to make sure I'm thinking up the same person. I have no idea who that is to pay the truth. Okay, I need to make a... Prime, there's

an era that you probably missed out on because, you know, maybe you're not quite as old as I am. But there was an era where companies, especially internet companies, but not exclusively, like companies like Intel, for example, had sort of brand ambassador positions. And these were people who were like enthusiastic about technology, but didn't really have all that much to do with it. Will I Am was one. Shinghi? Does anyone remember Shinghi?

Are you trying to say Shingy? Nope. Shinghi. He was an experimental artist who was like a brand ambassador for, I can't even remember which company, but a major company like Hewlett Packard or I don't remember who it was. But like, and they would produce these videos that were just like, you know, them talking about how cool technology is, but non-specificly. This was a whole thing that happened. And there's more, I'm not remembering the world. There's several other celebrities who were like in that vein. And you're just like, what is going on? But that was just, it was cool.

for a while in like the early 2000s to have like this pseudo like it's usually B list like it's not you know I'm not trying to go who the A list there's it's not Jennifer Lawrence who is right it's not a list celebrity someone who's like launching a major motion picture just below like B tier somebody that people have heard of but it's not you know prime like prime like that'd be so good dude I'd definitely do that dude Hewler Packard I'm like look at this printer I got all these Inks. I got all the

inks. I got all these inks. Name of color. Name of color. Right now. I got it. Prime. Can I tell the story

about what happened on the call for nothing but not? Sure. I don't even know what the story is, but you could, you could. What does remind me of you saying

Hewitt Packard and like we all call it HP and you'd like not knowing acronyms? So we're doing an event next week with Century at the Chase Center, which is where, Golden State Warriors play. We need to go to a game afterwards. We're going to do something very fun. It's going to be a surprise, actually.

We can't tell you what our actual thing is. I'll tell you Casey afterwards and trash. Ooh, secret details. Sorry, chat. You're not going to know this. Only I get to know. And me. Yeah, or they have to come in person next week. You might get kicked out. Yeah.

After all the snacks he's provided. We're like 15 minutes into the call with them and there's someone from Golden State on the call. Centries on the call. Prime are on the call. They've said things like, you know, the GSW staff will do this or like, you know, to go through GSW, this, blah, blah. They've said the, the acronym GSW about 35 times at least. And we're 15 minutes into the call. And finally, Prime goes, so what is GSW? Because I'm like, get shit one. Like I get in my head. Get shit one. I had no idea.

Yeah, is that like graphics software or? Yeah, I didn't know idea you guys were doing it there. That's crazy. Oh, my goodness. And we're on the call. Like, we've been talking about the Warriors. We've been talking. It's not like we were surprised about what NBA team is at the place.

Golden State, what is the Golden State? What is the Golden State? I don't know that acronym. What's Golden State? Golden State. That's, it's the San Francisco team. Oh, God. Steph Curry.

Okay. Golden State. That's even better. I don't know basketball at all. That's fine. Oh, I miss, oh, crap. I missed my chance again. I was supposed to say something like,

I don't follow hockey. That's twice I missed an obvious setup. Damn it. I thought you were going to say something like, I never watch moving balls on the screen. I hate that crap. Yeah, exactly. Balls are bouncing.

It is a proven fact that people cannot comprehend spade. Yeah. All right, so Golden State Warriors is the San Francisco basketball team. Mm-hmm. I believe so. Possibly the greatest player ever. Yes. Possibly.

Okay. Maybe. All right. So I do want to, hey, in my own personal defense, I would like to say that that's actually one of my strengths that I am willing to ask any question. That part was good. I was proud of you. I was proud of you that you asked even though it was like awkwardly late into the call.

It was just it. I thought I could just pick it up. I thought I could just pick it. Honestly, I was like, oh, but it wasn't. Once, I'll probably get it the second time. They use the second time. I'm like, I really don't understand it from this context. Here we go.

I have to ask now. It just cracked me up because it was like, it happened to be, if it was just Century and not someone from Golden State Warriors, I wouldn't have even laughed or thought it was that funny. But it was just because we had someone from the org there. That's like a record scratch moment. It was. They didn't care.

They thought it was funny. Hey, man, it's better than me not knowing which, like, like, think, like, oh, New Jersey. I don't think anyone for San Francisco wants to be told they live in New Jersey Yeah, yeah, they're offended by that for sure. Right, it's like, where is this team from? It's like New Jersey or something? It's like, no, it's San Francisco.

It's like, oh, well, slightly dirtier, but still okay. Yeah. Here's something I would like to share with everyone since you brought up Hewlett Packard. Great. I just want to underscore it for all the young people out there, which is like everyone in chat. a lot of people don't remember

because or because they were too they were like in diapers at this time I just want to point this out just to underscore how much this industry changes in a relatively short period of time if you were to say today I've got a brand new CPU

brand new chip coming get hyped everyone I've got a brand new chip coming from Hewlett Packard literally nobody would be like oh wow like I can't wait to see or most people would just be like what

like what are you talking about like they don't do they're just like they're like Dell or something they make like printers or monitors I don't even know what they make it doesn't matter right Hewlett Packard was actually the partner

them and Intel were the two people who were supposed to have designed the chips that you would be using today. When X-86 was going to move from 32-bit to 64-bit, they announced that the way that would happen was the thing

called Project Itanium. And the Itanium was made by architected by Hewlett-Packard and Intel as a joint venture. They were the people, because Hewlett-Packard was like a big name in computing at that time. Wow. I remember HP. Yeah. And

the entire thing fell apart and did not end up producing chips that anyone wanted because the only reason people are on it to x86 is for backwards compatibility so itanium was not at all what they had in mind and so that was like the last the last there was of of Hewlett Packard being like a big player

like if that had happened they would be a company you'd be thinking of today as like major CPU player potentially right but as it is now they're just completely forgotten like no one cares about sorry HP I'm sorry no one cares actually HP we could

put a specific around if you would hire a B-list celebrity. I don't know whom. I was thinking... I got an HP printer right behind me. I was thinking, if HP wants to get into the chip game, they just start making new snacks

and send them to trash. Yep. That'll get them on them. I use my HP printer every day. I just had a vision of like trash going to hot chips. Like trash going to hot chips 2027 and being like, there's no snacks here at all. This is the worst conference. ever. This is terrible.

You guys don't know shit. A snacks at every conference is always bad. I'm just going to say that now. Yeah, that's true. You should go to hot chips, and you should get a booth. Yeah. You should be giving out the best chips out there. You want a stand-up booth where we just hand out snacks? Yeah. Oh. Drones hard. Tired silicon chips. Wired

corn chips. That's what we're talking about here, guys. There we go. Well, it's popcorn chips now or something. I don't know what trash is eating. Popcorners. Popcorners. Yeah. And yum earths.

Well, at the end of the day, this tweet sucked. I personally think, Casey, the reason why he tweets this stuff is the same reason why Elon must tweet stuff is the same reason why Trump tweet stuff. Okay. And all those people do, which is that nobody can tell them no. And they just are like, this is who I am. And they just go out there and whatever comes to their mind is what's going out on the internet.

And that's just that. And you just get stream of consciousness whether you love it or hate it. That's what you're getting, baby. I mean, it could be. It could be. I don't know. I mean, I have to think that most people are trying to, when they're communicating to the public, they're trying to communicate in a way that gets the reaction that they wanted, usually.

right? Like, even if that reaction is I was trying to piss someone off. Right. But I don't know. Maybe they're not. Like, maybe Sam Altman really just doesn't have any idea, like, or doesn't think about the fact that people were react to things. I feel like for a lot of people that tweet played well. I mean, for people in AI's fear. By the numbers, by the numbers, 33,000 likes. But is that, isn't that just kind of generally what tweets from Sam Altman get? I don't think so. I don't know. 2000s a lot, but we can, we can, we can do some sleuthing. 2000, 2000. I've just, I think like for crazy graph, 6,000, 11. People in AI, particularly, let's say people.

That is somewhat high. Yeah, it's disproportionately very high compared to all of these. Well, 12K, that one I guess was popular. I don't know what it was. Yeah, 10K. I'm saying people who come into 34K, they're doing their first coding thing ever. They're doing other stuff. They're not even, they're not soft.

for developers, right? Like, they don't, they don't have any respect, like, for the craft or like, who came before, in the sense of like,

what, and why should they, right? Like, that doesn't make any sense. That would be weird for us to just be like, yeah,

you guys should really know who John Carmack is and why he was awesome at programming and like all of this stuff and what it's like, they don't, it's just like,

it's cool that I mean, that's it. Also, it's cool that I can talk to my computer and it can make something, even if it's bad. That's dope, right?

Like, okay, we'd separate out the fact that like, I don't necessarily like maybe how they got some of it or some of the people or the companies or their legislation or whatever. But like, it's sick that I can talk to the computer and be like, make it purple.

Make it in a purple theme. No mistakes. And it changes the website to purple. And then I'm like, rounded corners. And it makes rounded corners. That is so cool. Put it in a box. And then another box.

In a box. In a box. I want every div to have a border. And three pixels of spacing. So I know AI made that this web page. Okay. Marky tab. Marquis tab.

So that part, you know, like, that part is cool. I feel like for people who aren't like, hey, Sam, you're like screwing. Maybe like there's some aspects where we're moving too fast. You're screwing over the profession. You guys are like putting out a lot of slop. You're giving people the wrong expectations. If you don't have those like preconceived notions for it, that is like a nice tweet saying like, hey guys, thanks for helping us get here.

Like we're excited for the future. I got, you know, like for people who have a different background. I feel like that's how you would take it. If you work. Yeah. of like addressing a specific audience at the expense of another audience. Right. Just being fine with that, right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're definitely in the minority. Yeah, right. There's way less people that have written code before AI than that will make some code artifact after AI exists. Like, that's probably already true. Just because, like, people try random stuff on the websites. But yeah. Right, right.

I mean, because it could just kind of spit out code. So you would think, right, yeah. Looks like that's the stand-up. Any blockers? Your code that I look at every day. True. That's trash from real life. How much of my code do you actually run into?

I'm actually like deep in your code. Wait, which one? I'm doing like TTR stuff right now. That's not a good side. That's not a good sign. I'm going to rewrite it all. Yeah, go for it. Please.

Not every kid. I didn't design the current one. The TTR concept was mine. How it works and loads like, say for evolution and for MDP versus gallery and all that. secrets right now. That is all, that was, that was a different person.

I won't say his name, but that was a different person. Good luck. Casey, any blockers? Yeah, I don't want to talk about it. It kind of seems like

you got to talk about it. You got something on your chest you can get off? Let's get in the fear. I, I think I've said on this podcast before, literally I think I said it on this podcast,

but I don't know. Maybe I, maybe it was somewhere else. But I have said that the one time where I can relate to people who use AI is whenever I have to interact with like a web stack of some kind that like, right? Because I'm just like, yeah, I can totally understand why you just want to type in something like figure out like, you know, whatever this random BS is that's like 50,000 text files of random config stuff, you know, half of which is ad hoc. And so I currently, I have to move a server from like an old server that was running like this little, I wrote this little C program that just does our mailing list management for us, but it has to hook up to a web server somewhere.

And like it was on Apache and now it has to be on NGYNX for some reason. And they don't support CGI bin. They only support fast CGI. so now I have to just go, like, relink the program with, like, a fast CGI library, but, of course, I've never looked at the fast CGI library before, so, like, I don't love having code ship that I haven't looked at. And all, like, so that is currently what I get to do later this week for no reason. This is all useless work, right?

That's why I say, like, I always relate to people who like to use AI in that, because I'm just like, this is useless. There's no point to any of this. It doesn't accomplish anything. It's literally just busy work to move something from one protocol to another with no value add other than just that's what happens to be occurring on these servers, right? I think you also said phrases such as CGI bin that most people will have no idea what you what you're saying and the other people will shudder a little bit.

Yeah. So in the old, old, old days, like wicked old days, that was just how you got if you have a web server running and you wanted it to interface with like a C program that you'd compiled. So you wanted to extend the behavior. of the web server. There was this protocol for like, okay, here is how we will invoke some executable on the drive

and we'll set environment variables to let it know what, you know, what the user had set up in the form that they were submitting to the CGI bin or whatever it was that you were doing, right? And there's a lot of reasons why you wouldn't want to do that in like a serious scenario.

The biggest one being that you're actually having to execute the, you have to run the executable every time, right? So, you know, in other words, there's a process that has to be started and so on. So if you were thinking about trying to do something high bandwidth, you wouldn't want to do this. And so the way that they, you know, solved that problem for things that wanted to look like this is they created a thing called, you know, fast CGI, which was just like, oh, now we just run something and we'll just communicate with it by using like shared memory or something like this, right? You know, we can, or packet passing or whatever, you know, we'll just have some way that we'll solve this problem so that the process stays running. And so that's how you would do it today if you had,

if you have some program that's like an external program, but it's not, it's not as convenient because it's not really external anymore. Right? It doesn't, you now have to have that protocol baked in. It just sounds like a web server, but worse. It's just like, hey, here's a web server, but unique.

You don't even get HTTP. You just get like, well, it's another way to look at it would be, hey, you've got the, you know, you want someone else to handle HTTPS for you because you don't want to re-implement TLS and you don't want to implement an ASN1 parser and you don't want to do that stuff, right? Which is very understandable because that's a huge pain in the butt. And it's constantly changing too.

They're like, oh, you know, like if you had done that back with TLS 1-1 and then they came out with 1-2 and one-three, like, now you're running back and upgrading your software to like the new cipher suites and all this other crap, right? So it's like, it's a maintenance headache too. So if you just wanted someone like NGYNX to do that for you, but you would like to write the part of the code that does the rest, Fast CGI is kind of a nice way to do it.

You just go like, all right, you know, but you could also do a plugin. You know, NGNX has a plug-in architecture. You could use that. I don't know. I don't care about any of this stuff. I'm just saying how it is. He's just blocked by it. I just don't want to do it. I just don't like this kind of thing.

It's annoying. Okay, okay, okay. TJ, any blockers? Yeah, about six months ago, Began Bot promised be a funny edit of a video where there's a song where they interspersed goats screaming inside of a Taylor Swift song. And I really, my wife asked for that, but with a pan flute instead because that's Began's signature song for, or signature sound for Asuno songs. And I'm still waiting for it. I've been blocked on it. Literally for six months, my wife regularly.

asks me about it and every time I'm on the phone with vegan she asks and he always says he's going to get that to me soon tomorrow today I don't know he said but so I'm blocked on that so thanks if you're having trouble uh with your wife teage I do think trash has a pretty good app he's been working on that should probably help with that it will resolve I don't know all marital problems okay because there won't be a marital to be worried about no more problems of the marital variety. I wanted a prime last week when I was at the office I was like going through like

somehow I end up on one of your old PRs and it was you and Benmo and it was like some formatting thing and you're like sorry it's like you know Vim things you wouldn't get it and it just made me like crack up in the office just by myself. I was like that sounds exactly like Prime Hey guys if you work at Netflix and you see Trash

make sure you say hello he loves it. He does love it. All right also hey I have to walkers. I know I was going to ask Prime Oh, Prime has blockers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My blocker is that Casey needs to say Edge and X correctly or I'm going to lose my mind for the rest of the day. No, I'm not going to do it.

N-G-I-N-X. I'm not going to say Engin-X. I'm not just pronounced N-G-N-X. That's what people are always talking about. I say N-G-I-N-X. I'm not saying it doesn't look like that to me. No, I'm not. I'd be like in-G-G-N-G-S is like what I would actually say

if I was to try and say. It doesn't, it doesn't look like... You're saying every letter, huh? N-G-N-X. Yeah, NGYNX. I guess it's not that terrible to say NGYNX. It sounds more sophisticated. Like, if you say NGYNX, it sounds like you're talking about some kind of like municipal telephonic, like telephone exchange or something like this, right?

Like, it's like, oh, yeah, NGYNX. Like, they service all the greater New England area's telephone service, right? Mine's N3X. That's what I like to call it. Yeah. All right. That's that. That's the stand-up.

Everybody get the hell out of here, get to work, okay? Oh, my goodness, we got to get to work. Bye, everyone. Bye. Put up the day. Fibreter errors on my screen. Terminal coffee and hair.