The Standup with ThePrimeagen - The Wikipedia Odin Controversy and the Red Button Dilemma

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

Don’t let bad code get merged without reviewing (hopefully not by merge cop!). Checkout out Code Rabbit at https://trm.sh/coderabbit The crew debates the internet’s latest impossible question: red button or blue button, and somehow turns it into a full philosophical breakdown of trust, self-preservation, group behavior, and whether Trash would doom humanity because he hates red cars. They also get into Pokémon card chaos, Wikipedia drama, Odin’s deleted page, and why modern “notability” might be broken.

Time out in four minutes, there's a Pokemon drop, so we have to, like, totally disengage and buy these Pokemon cards. We can just trash. Don't mind us. We can wait. I'd like to see that on stream. Yeah, Trash can I have a little watch your screen. I need to see Trash. Buy some Pokemon. My cue just refreshed. Oh, no, the queue refreshed. Oh, no, trash, it's over. Hold on. I'm in. Time out, buying cards right now as we speak. He's in. He's in. Share the screen. I can not do. I'm locked in right now, and I cannot do such things because it will sell out. By the way, Trash, are you a little bit worried about someone being killed for the first time due to Pokemon?

Wait, what? Someone just got murdered for their Pokemon cards. Prime, don't distract him, bro. He's locked in. Trash, keep focusing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway. Sorry, bro, I can see Trash looking at Pokemon cards in the reflection of his glass. Yeah, I love it.

So there's a problem here. Oh, no, oh, no. And it says everything's out of stock. and I'm pretty upset right now. Did you get scalped? Are the scalpers just like auto barring everything? No, this is the official, this is official Pokemon Center website.

And they do drops, they do a queue, like once every couple weeks or so. And I was in the queue for like an hour. Oh, that's weak, Trash, only an hour, bro? It looks like I'm late. So, anyway. Trash, what was the drop? I mean, tell us.

Tell us a little more about the drop. Or is it? What do you want to know? Huh? Is it too painful? I mean, like, what generation Pokemon are in the drop? Why is it cool?

I need to know more. This drop was going to be the new set. It's a new set called a set of Heroes. Well, it's like, it's a new set. And it's like one of my favorite sets. So everyone, the scalpers are all over it. So everyone's like botting.

So it's like me versus the bot. So I'm not going to win unless I spend like $2,000 for a bot, which I will not do. Good job, trash. There's like such high demand. What do you mean? You could just build your own with puppeteer, pretty straightforward here.

I think there's like, there's like some. like specific things you can do like you can't just interact people's interactions like there's trash is trying to come by him in an honest way prime don't don't do this this is all daddy the problem is when everyone's dishonest that's the new that's the new

level that you have to be like oh the only way to be able to buy is that if I don't have a robot I will never buy you know I'm gonna talk about that today actually I know we are you're built the entire iOS app to track every time your wife leaves stuff in the sink I would assume that using a bot for Pokemon is not

it's not a fair you know you know I will take that on the chin. Welcome everybody to the stand-up. Today we might have one of the single greatest episodes ever, as we will be arguing over everything that is just so dang intense. But before we begin, before I even get to the episode, we always have to address the blockers.

Do we have any blockers? I have a blocker. It's a short one. It's a short one. I'll send it in the Twitch chat so you can display it to the audience. I got out punned by someone recently on X.com, and their request was that I share it as my blocker, so I just wanted to make sure I'm coming through on my promises and my commitments.

This is a place where we make sure we follow through, and there we are. So, Prime, maybe you want to scroll up just a touch to give the initial, and maybe you could do a dramatic reading, prime. That would be really helpful for me because your screen's 12 pixels on my end. You're killing me, Merge, Con. That little stunt of yours turned into a six-hour post-mortem. She's merged in a prod!

You have the right to remain silent. Come on, commish. That code wasn't clean and you know- I don't got time for this. Them R-C's are being vandalized across the city. A Diff. No, no, no, the Diffler's a myth. The Diffler's out there, and I'm gonna be the one to deprecate him.

You need to focus on your Jira tickets, not chasing a ghost. No more cowboy coding for you. I'm assigning you a partner. A partner? You can't do this to me. I am a lone wolf. I'm an I see. I do not need some deadweight junior dev hold me back. Oh no, you're not reverting this one, Merge Cop. He might actually teach you a thing or two.

He did graduate top of his class with a flawless CI record. Merge Cop, meet your partner, Lieutenant Squash. Pleasure to knit your acquaintance. MergeCop! Functional tests. And to end tests. Acceptance tests. Performance tests.

Load tests. Stress tests. Math tests, system tests, internationalization... I'm just all units. There has been a reporting of a Diffler sighting at a local cafe. Copy. We're on it. It's our chance to get the Diffler. Get in!

Compatibility test? I'm supposed to throw more kinds of tests! Shut at Twish. It's time to get the Diffler. Sanity tests. Snapshot test. Smell then. I've been telling him I need new bills. Smills. That we had to move by the car!

Stay in the car, I'm about to get forced my fist in the Diffler's face. We have to stick to the process! What do you think you're doing? Building in public? Wrong answer, Diffler. I know my rights. This is just a side project. What is MergeCop even doing? I'm working on my side project. I don't even need him. I'm using CodeRabbit.

With something like CodeRabbit, it's like having a code founder, always watching my back. I'm not going to leak customer information. I'm always going to be up to date on coding best practices. You don't believe me? You can try it too at code rabbit.ai. Next week on MergeCob. Oh, on your dip. Oh, I know you're the tip.

Yeah, yeah, I'll do a dramatic reading, and also Twitch chat can't technically see it due to the fact that things. What is this picture? There's like a blurry picture of a door or something? Yes, yes. First, I'll describe what is happening, first and foremost. For our audio listeners.

Yeah, for our audio listeners only. for everybody and for anyone enjoying the Riverside live feed. It's a Riverside, which is basically audio only. It's a podcast platform. Duh, that's audio. So it starts off with a picture that has like a, what appears to be a very girthy door. I'm thinking what, four inches thick right there?

At least four inches, bro. Whoa. At least. It looks huge. But also the door makes no sense. It looks like it splits the entryway down the twain. like or it splits it in Twain because look at it like that door's too big to fit in there yeah so you push it in and then turn it yeah it's really confusing it says where do we even buy a door

like this and then tj responds with the name of the company read so it's called founders fund and so he asked ryan peterson asked where do you even buy a door like this tj responds with at founders find i don't get that it wasn't that instead of how it's such a bad pun like t j pun, this has to be one of your worst. It was just, guys, hey, okay, you shoot, you take a lot of shots on gold. I'll like it. I like it, Bill. Okay, thank you,

Tragic. Yeah. Yeah. Then dang, because his name was already, with Handel already taken, Sal's says, more like Found Doors. That one was good. Found Doors. Fun. I know. Found doors fun. I got that's pretty good.

I got logged. Keep reading, though. His name is already taken So's. Soz is just like a way to say sorry. Yeah, thank you, Trou's. for the cultural update. That's great. He said, Salves. I was like, I can't do this. That's a good point. That's a good point. Continue, though. Prime. There's a little bit more.

There's still some good stuff in the thread. Oh, there is? I thought you just said, I like that one, too, and he says, mentioned my tweet on the stand-up, or you will be found dead. Oh, my gosh. That's good. Found-dead. Oh, my gosh. That is a good one. That's a good one. Wow. He got me with the back-to-back, so I said it'll be one of my blockers.

So just so you guys know, if you come at me with some good puns, you'll make it onto the pod. I mean, that's pretty much the most intense thing that I do on a week-to-week basis is puns on the internet. So if you've got some and you're ready to go, I mean, I'm listening. I'm always available for that. So that's my blocker. Thank you, everyone.

Appreciate the time. TJ has made an entire career off of making puns on the internet. That's true. That's actually, I thought he'd stop by now. Nope, nope, just going to keep going. That's my blocker. Casey, I thought you had a blocker, though. I had a blocker?

I don't think so. This is a real one. Yeah, Casey, you said you had a blocker. We were calling the Wikipedia situation a blocker. So, yeah, this was sort of a, maybe we could call it a blocker for the Odin community writ large. Most people, probably anyone who watches this show, because Prime has covered it before,

but if you're watching this YouTube channel, for example, you probably know there is a program language called Odin that people use to do stuff. It's a relatively new language, and by that I mean 10 years or so. It's not new like yesterday, but, you know, new in the pantheon of

languages like C that have been around for five decades or more. Anyway, this language does not currently have a Wikipedia page, which is kind of odd because, you know, if you were wondering what is the Odin language, you might want to be able to read a Wikipedia page

about it that would like, consolidate some links for you and have like a summary of the grammar, which is just generally what languages, programming languages have on Wikipedia. And you can go on Wikipedia and you can get this for a lot of languages, which I think is nice, including languages that are extremely esoteric languages that only people like me are ever looking for because we're doing historical research or whatever, you know, there is to it. So that is how you would like things to function. Unfortunately, as many people know if they've ever interacted with Wikipedia as sort of a, the hive mind that is Wikipedia, they have a lot of rules and oftentimes these rules

require them or seem to require them to do things that are counterproductive. So there actually was a Wikipedia page for Odin and it got deleted. And the reason it got deleted was because they decided that Odin was not a notable enough language. And notability is like a thing that's based on sort of their rule set. It has to do with like how many third party publications, you know, think Wired magazine or something, have ever mentioned Odin before and things like this. It doesn't include things like, oh, lots of people are making programming languages in Odin or you can go on YouTube. and Fine Prime talking about Odin or anything like that. Those are things that don't count according to them, right?

So normally, I suppose we wouldn't necessarily talk about this on the stand-up, but amusingly, for some reason, somebody tweeted at Jimmy Wales, and I don't know why, and basically said, like, why did Odin, you know, like, what's going on here? And Jimmy Wales was like, can someone send me a link to this or whatever? And Jimmy Wales looked at the talk page for it and was like, Seems correct. Seems like they deleted it. I don't know.

This language doesn't sound very interesting or whatever, right? It's like I'm fine with that. And so a bunch of us kind of eruption. Who's Jimmy Wales? So Jimmy Wales, I sure, you obviously already know who he is, but for the sake of the audience, Jimmy Wales is, and this apparently is very controversial what I'm about to say. Oh, I love it already. Jimmy Wales is the co-founder of Wikipedia.

Now, he literally, I guess, walked out of an interview because someone referred to him as the co-founder and not the founder of Wikipedia. So maybe I should just say he's the founder of Wikipedia. I don't know. I don't have any idea what that was about, but this is apparently a thing. If you want to go ahead and Google for like Jimmy Wales walks out of interview, you can watch it. I don't know what that was about. Casey, I have the definitive. proof.

Okay. Since we know Wikipedia is the source of all truth, it has said he is best known for co-founding Wikipedia. And that's why I said, that's why I said co-founded, and that's also why the interviewer said co-founded. He says it right in the clip. He's like, on Wikipedia, it says you are co-founded. That's so funny.

So, so I don't know. Like, right? Like, I have no, maybe there was some bad blood there. Maybe it's a sore subject. I have no idea. All I know is, I don't... And then call him co-founder. Like, I just feel like that is the...

And then hang up. Yeah. And then it'll lock out. I don't have any idea. I have a better solution, but I want to hear the rest of the story first. So anyway, the only reason that this is now became a thing is because, you know, he tweeted about it, right? And so a bunch of us replied, and like, I replied, for example, being like, I don't understand, like, what's the deal? like this is a programming language

that's definitely notable. Like that's really not debatable at this point. Like, you know, Ginger Bill got hired by Djanga FX, literally a company whose entire code base written by Odin, he got hired to maintain Odin at that company because it's critical to their software stack, right? And so to me, like, that's enough because if I'm trying to understand, like,

sort of programming language stuff, if I'm trying to understand, like, that company and what their software was written in, you know, much less relevant languages have been documented, and I'm glad they've been documented, like purely theoretical languages that have only existed for people to kind of talk about or analyze things. Like Haskell. Yeah. Things which no one will ever ship anything, Bill.

Sorry, I'm sorry. There's functional program of people out there who are losing their mind right now. No, I mean, but seriously, I think it's a good thing to basically say, look, let's document what these things are. it's a nice repository for that and as long as you have good sources for what the language actually is and in the case of something like Odin it's very easy you can go on to GitHub and you can get the language

you can use it you can read their documentation one of the Djanga FX engineers has a big blog post where he talks about how they used it or how he was like had to learn it when he was going to go use it at Jenga FX and things like that so it's pretty easy to find out what this language is like and pretty easy to be to Wikimha page. So I'm just like, if in general

Wikipedia does not support having a page on Odin, then I think there's something wrong. Like that just indicates to me that this is not the repository of knowledge that I would want it to be. Now granted, you don't have to care what I want, but I'm just, that's my feedback, right? Like, my feedback is that's really stupid. And also kind of of a part with other things that I've seen with Wikipedia, where like, in general, I find that the information on Wikipedia could be a lot more accurate than it was if they didn't

rely on this really stupid process of always wanting like wired magazine to launder the information first, which is sort of like this game of telephone where it's guaranteed to be at least partially wrong and partially slanted by what the interviewer's like angle was at the time that they were writing the article. And, you know, this is just something that you know if you've been involved in something and then seen how it gets laundered through the press and then into Wikipedia you're like this is not very good and in an

era where it's actually pretty easy for us to go to primary sources, ask them questions, look at what people who are arguing about the thing or saying about it in real time, it just seems antiquated right? It's sort of like it's like going back to an encyclopedia Britannica

model of doing things and just like it doesn't really make much sense to me. The Stinger came when Jimmy Wales was like, replied to me going like, I didn't realize that there was a company that had written, you know, its software, commercial software in this language.

Do you have a source for that? And I'm like, this is the problem, Jimmy. The problem is the sources are all around you. Like, everyone knows that. The source was in the room with them. Like,

the source is in the room with you. And literally, to his, That tweet that Jimmy posted, one of the founders of Jenga FX replies and goes, we wrote the thing in Odin. The fat, like, it's like Jimmy Wales replies to me. The founder replies to him. And so I'm like, this is what I mean.

It's like that should be the way that we assess things is by looking at what the people are actually saying. Now, Wikipedia's argument against this is this very strange idea to me, in a modern context. The reason that they don't like that idea is because they seem to think that having a journalist in the loop makes it more likely to be accurate,

whereas the opposite is true in my entire experience. Do people lie? Of course they do. Are journalists more likely to report something accurate than the person who was actually involved? No, even including the lies in my experience, even including the people who lie, right?

Because oftentimes the journalist only checks the lies when the lies are not what the journalist was wanting to report, right? It's a very ugly system currently the way we do media, and it doesn't work very well, in my opinion. So pretending that it's adding a layer of, like, fault tolerance is backwards to me. It's adding a layer of faultiness to the system. So anyway, that was the whole, that's the whole ordeal, basically. To this day, I don't think Odin now has a Wikipedia page, which is ridiculous.

And when it was brought up as well that, like, oh, like newer languages like Zig and things like that do have Wikipedia pages. The response sort of from Wikipedia was like, well, maybe they shouldn't have one either, right? Like it was like, it was like, it was like that. I like that response. Kind of. It was kind of like, you know, it was kind of like, you know, on the margin, like maybe this has a few more references. But their main thing was like, it doesn't matter if some other language has it because maybe that language should. be deleted too and we just haven't gotten to that yet, right? So like, in their opinion,

like, what about this other article is not allowed on Wikipedia? And that's maybe more reasonable. But it also made me a little bit worried because I'm like, does that mean the Zyg page is getting deleted next? The Jai page apparently got merged with John's entry now, for example. So, like, what's going to happen to these pages that, in my opinion, were valuable to people who didn't, you know, don't necessarily have a centralized way to look up like what is, you know, one of these languages. So I don't know. It's just, the whole thing kind of sucked, in my opinion.

Not that I was a huge fan of Wikipedia, but I would like them to maybe acknowledge that they need an update to the way things are being done because the most accurate information is now coming from the people doing it, and they post a lot of things, and you can use those things. So a bias against primary sources seems bad. I have a question. I'm a resort. Oh, go ahead, trash.

Of course. So I'm not a big Wikipedia user. but back in my day i thought anyone could just put anything on wikipedia when when did they start enforcing like you can't put this on here because i remember we would just go on there and just like tweak someone's page and just to be funny yeah that's actually you would just say the history i'm just like you know just going to do them or something when did they become a stand-up citizen like literally right after you guys started doing that that's why they had to start yeah trash you may you may have been the problem here.

Thanks, trash. That was the only answer to this. That was the best part of Wikipedia. All right. So Odin doesn't have a Wikipedia page because of trash dev 10 years ago. I just got to know what does it cost them to have these pages. Like, what is the purpose of deleting a page? Like, isn't there a way to flag it saying, hey, there's no media sources citing this.

Therefore, there could be, you know, incredible facts in here. Which they do. And they have that, those kind of like things where like this doesn't have enough references or the references made by unreliable. And so the deleting of the page seems completely unnecessary to me. I completely agree with you. I don't know why they do that. That's probably something where they're just like,

well, we want to make sure that in general, like they must believe that having a Wikipedia page confers some kind of status. You know, status on people or things. And so they're trying to preserve that. And to me, that just doesn't seem necessary because at least in my experience, I've found so many Wikipedia pages

on completely esoteric things that no one probably should care about and that I didn't suddenly think, oh my God, this thing is so much more important than I thought it was. Like, I never have that. Like, I'm just like, yeah, everything under the sun has a Wikipedia page.

So like, who cares, right? So it does seem like pretty free for them to just leave the page up, put a thing on top of it that says, you know, this needs more. more secondary sources for authentication or something? And what's the problem? You know, but,

but in, you know, in their mind, that's not good enough, I guess, or, or, you know,

I'm not sure. I, this one's a long shot of a joke. So just, okay, just bear with me. I just want to do a little table talk first about it before I go, that it's a long shot and I'm aware before it fails.

So we'll just pretend that I didn't say that, though, like for the sake of a joke. Yeah, exactly. Um, maybe Along with the joke. Yeah, well, maybe.

Yeah, yeah, we'll cut to commercial. Um, beep, be, be, do. Uh, so my, what if it's because they don't think Jenga is a firm foundation? It's the game. So, all right, there we go. So that's, all right. That was, I said, I'm, I told you it's a little long shot. The guy who did the found, Foundor's fun thing right now has like 12 better ones than that.

I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry, continue. It's a fun game. There's not much to continue. I mean, that's kind of... I didn't know that the change about Wikipedia requiring or saying that there must be some sort of external source like Wired.

Because by that very definition, if you don't take it from the person who's creating its mouth, but instead have it pass through a third party, you are inherently adding effectively noise to the signal, which means that all Wikipedia has to be incorrect to some amount. It's like telephone. Well, to be clear, let me try and, I mean, I'll try to do the best job I can representing Wikipedia here, which I don't like, so I'm the wrong person to do it. All right. Come on, Casey Wales, tell me. Also co-founder. I would just add a slight caveat there, which is that there's two separate things here. There's two separate qualities that they're trying to assess. One is accuracy of the information.

And that's not really what we're talking about here. So nobody was saying that the Odin page contained lies or something like that, or that it was, you know, ill-conceived or that there is no programming language called Odin, or that Ginger Bill is a secret figure with the CIA doing a sci-op to try. He's not a ginger. He doesn't really have red hair. Yeah. Oh, really? No one was claiming those things. That's true. That's true, trash. It's true, trash. 100% true.

No, that's, he started it as a fake news thing. I'm disappointed. I couldn't tell because he's bald, right? I'm pretty sure he was bald when I met him. So here's the thing. What they're talking about is notability. So, notability is trying to determine whether or not this thing should have a Wikipedia page.

Now, as... Sorry, Tresch. I'm not laughing. Am I wrong? Did I say he's bald? He's not bald? No, no, no. Tresh.

One, you're right, but he is a ginger. We're just trolling you. Oh, okay. Yeah. I hate you guys. So me and private is all right. I said it as a joke, like to spread misinformation. He's like, there's no misinformation.

Like, yeah, like, Bill's not a ginger. And you're just like, he's not a ginger. I don't know. I'm like, you know, all these people are watching. I don't want to be, I don't want to be like, oh, he's actually a ginger. I don't know. I don't know. If only you worked for Wired Magazine Prime, that would be authoritative.

You'd be like, yep, he's not a ginger. Be a notable fact. So basically, there's two separate things. One is accuracy and the other is notability. And so for accuracy, you can actually go on to, and there's even a third thing, which is bias. So Wikipedia has all of those kind of in the mix. So they'll have like a source ranking like, you know, let's take Mother Jones Magazine. I think their listing for that was that it is generally accurate but biased, right?

Now, I don't know if I would agree with generally accurate, but let's say that that's a reasonable split. It's like, yeah, okay, they are definitely a biased magazine. They have a very specific point of view. Maybe their fact-checking is okay. I don't know that I thought it was fantastic, but whatever. I don't think a lot of magazines, things are good fact-checking. So who knows? By Wikipedia standards, maybe it is accurate.

So those things are not the important part, though. Notability, that's why they're trying to say we need these sort of secondary sources, right? And so for them, notability is basically like saying, there's certain people whose opinions count for notability and certain people who don't. And this is the part that I have the biggest problem with, because accuracy is a separate issue that I wish they would also address, but that's separate. In my opinion, YouTube now is probably one of the most important places to gauge notability. It's where people make their money. Like YouTube, substack, if you're still working for a legacy.

news outlet, then I don't even know, like, you're some boomer dinosaur, like, no offense, but like, no, I don't even use those things anymore. Guy who I for a living calling you a boomer is amazing. I'm the most, I am the most, I, like, everyone knows that I generally will stick with something as long as it's working. Like, I can't imagine opening up the Washington Post to get your news in the morning. That, that to me feels like you would have to be utterly crazy to think that that was the most efficient way to assess what was going on. When you can literally go find people who are literally there at whatever the thing is that you're wondering about, and you can go see what's going on for yourself, it's so weird, right?

It's like, it's relying on third-hand information in an era where firsthand information is so abundant that you can get every possible take on the thing that you might want in real time. And yet somehow you're asking for it to be filtered through some person who, couldn't get a job anywhere else so they're working at the Washington Post, who all they're doing is watching the same social media feed you are and is writing it up. It's ridiculous to think that that's a thing, right? Like, it's, forget it. It's so weird. It's so funny seeing, like, the headlines of what everyone was talking about on X, like, two or three days ago show up. And it's like, oh my goodness, you guys, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, we were talking about that yesterday,

guys. And I got a better article by reading 30 people's tweets about it. Like, totally. And, like, it's just like, okay, you know, is someplace like social media a bastion of accuracy? No, it's not. Like, there's so much garbage on there, right? But the bottom line is, like, that's actually where the best source of information is if you're actually trying to curate it properly, right? It's going to be way better than the filter feeder version of that, which was it curated by people who have no idea about the subject domain. Right? It's like someone who has no idea how to program hardly at all is going to filter feed the like stuff that happens in programming. Like somebody at Wired magazine who knows like one hundredth of one percent of what any of us on the stand-up.

And like they're the ones who are supposed to filter feed this for it. It's like it's ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. So to me, I just checked. I don't have a Wikipedia page. That's absurd, right? It's absurd. How do you have a, how do you have a million subscribers of on something? how is that not notable, right? It doesn't make sense. I go in and delete it every time he tries to make one. I'm like, don't let this get to his head. He's got a Wikipedia page.

Oh, now he's notable. He's showing up to the coffee shop saying, yes, order for the primogen. It's like, it's too much for me. So I make sure I have this, though. I do have a wiki tube page. Oh, what? Oh, what's that? That sounds not appropriate for work.

Well, as you can see, it is that. It's just me looking terrible, and it's just facts about me. So I do have a page. It's just not the page that, you know, I would choose. So anyway. I don't manage that page. To me, notability is, should not, like, we now have much better ways of assessing notability.

Like, if you want to know what people are actually noticing, we literally have view counts. Like, we literally have ways to, like, some rando at the New York Times should have no more influence on what is notable than anyone else. They're just a random person. And in my experience, whenever I read articles in press anywhere about things I know about, they're way, they're like completely not knowledgeable. Like they are not what I would consider. That's called the Turing test.

Well, it's actually called the Gelman Amnesia Effect. Yes, the Gelman. It's called the Gelman Amnesia Effect. It's man. Oh, is it man, sorry, gelman, amnesia. I've never heard his name pronounced. It's Murray Gelman. You're going to trust prime on pronunciation is crazy.

It's GM. It's M-A-N-N. It's M-A-N-N-N. Gel-M-N or Gel-M-M-A-N. I have no idea to pronounce his name. Someone could go find out. It was basically a thing coined by Michael Crichton, like the guy you wrote Jurassic Park,

the Andromeda Strain, right? So he gave a speech one time, and he was basically just talking about, it was either speech or an interview, I'm not sure which. And he basically said, like, look, I have this thing where I, you know, I'm involved in the entertainment business very heavily now. And so when I read articles in the press about the entertainment industry, I'm like, they got this totally wrong.

Like, none of this is right. Like, what's going on? But for some reason, when I go read like about, you know, the war in Iran, I suddenly think for some reason that I'm reading actual information. But I just had the, I just literally had it demonstrated to me on the previous. page that they don't have any idea what they're talking about for something that I do know about. So why would I think they know what they're talking about for this? And the reason he called it the Gelman Abnesia Effect is because I think he was a prominent physicist at the time.

And he was basically saying like, look, when that guy reads the science column, he's like, oh, man, this is awful. But then he flips the page and reads something else and thinks that that's news, right? But it's not. It's just somebody who doesn't really know very much is attempt to summarize what happened, and it's probably wrong, right? And so to me, like, we are at a point in time where we can start to move past that. We have enough ability now to collect information from the people who are actually there.

We can find out from Djanga FX's founders directly from on the record without going through a third party. Do they think they wrote their code in Odin or not? That to me is 10 times more interesting. Because I am believe in the founder. They're so biased. They just want money. Good point. And the same thing for a notability.

Do you want to know if Prime's notable? Go look at his YouTube. Look at how many comments they're on it. Look at how many millions of viewers there are. It's notable. True. There you go. Done.

Who cares what the New York Times thinks? They're antiquated. No one cares about that anymore. The New York Times is for games now. They make most of their money selling you games. That's what they do, right? So, yeah, if I wanted to know how to make a good crossword puzzle, maybe I'd ask them. If I want to know what's notable, forget it.

They're old news. They're not interesting. Dang. I agree with everything you just said, Casey. All right. Yeah, I will say, I do want to throw out, I think Jelman Amnesia also is playing a really pivotal role right now in LLMs. Right, gelman.

It's gel. I always called a gel man, but it could be gelman. I don't actually know if it's gel or gel. He's the gel man. Well, that's because, dude, G's are very confusing. Is it GitHub or is it Jith hub? I don't know. Is it GIF or is it Jif?

I don't know, but it's down. Get it's down. I know that I can't see it. But with LLLLB, you see these tweets happening all the time, like, dude, they're so good at back end, but man, they're really bad at front end. Right. And you're like, yeah, bro, that's definitely what's happening. It's not that you don't know what's happening on the back end.

It's that they're really good at it. And you just simply only know things about the front end. Exactly. Perfect. It's very fantastic. It's pronounced GIF. Okay. Nice.

Anyways, I had one other thing. I did want to propose a solution to Jimmy Wales about the Odin kind of fiasco here, which was if he's willing to trade Odin gets his own page, we will do everything in our power to remove the co-and co-founder from his. I mean, it was like that seems like a fair deal. We'll make it, we'll make a bargain. Open invitation, Jimmy. Open invitation, Jimmy. Let me know, DM me.

We can figure this out. We can solve this like adults. We'll remove the co-and-com. co-founder and Ginger Bill can finally have his page, okay? Yep, there you go. There you go. I like him. Are we done with blockers?

I think so. Yeah, I'm unblocked now. This is the question in which is exploding the internet. Now, I'm positive that my fine co-hosts on Riverside can actually even see what I have on the page. So I'll read it just in case. The question that is dividing the internet, red or blue button. I read red and blue backwards. But that's because the image right here says red or blue.

kind of confusing that it's blue or red than right here. That does seem weird. That does seem like the AI didn't get the message. So to put it in here, so let me to read the exact tweet. Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who press the red button survive. Which button do you press? Oof, okay I want to hear trash Straight out the gate

I'm so interested In what trash would pick Well, I'll tell you how I approach these I just don't think And I push one Sick, that's good There's no point There's no reason to even think

I'll just go on this day Like boom, boom! Blue! Because I hate red Okay So when I grew up We would never buy things That were red

Like a red lighter Or get a red car Because I would like Like if you drove a red car That brought more attention To you for the cops or something Okay So red's always been like a superstitious color.

So I'm just like, blue, that's all. That's my thought process there. Good. Like, trash, is that really it? So I just got done reading that potentially half the people on Earth will die. And your response is, because cops will pull over red cars more, I press blue butter. I'm going to have to rethink my answer now based on this. That is literally what happened.

Am I alive? I'm alive, right? Well, you are actually in the risky spot. I love it. it? Yeah. Yeah, you're kind of on a knife stage, Trash. If I die quickly, it's fine. Okay. Okay. I just banished.

Yeah, that's a good point. There's a lot of unknown still in this poll that I would like to know a little more info about. Yeah, but literally, always been allergic to red my whole life. That's just how it is. Sorry. All right. Okay. What if they were switched to A or B, Trash? Would that affect it at all? I would pick B

because my last name starts with B. Trash, for having such like a human pivotal answer poll, you have the dumbest reasons I've ever heard for picking either. It's because these conversations deserve no thought process. Based. Okay, true. I'll take that. So I'm not going to stress, like, because ultimately it probably means nothing at the day.

So I'm very good at just like, dude, I'm not going to waste my brain cells on this. Boom, easy answer. True. He's in the queue for Pokemon. He doesn't have time for this. Yeah, I'm in a bad mood. I didn't get my Pokemon car. That's a, yeah, sorry. He actually lost on the Pokemon Q. So he's not even in a Q anymore. He's just a loser. I'm in a bad mood right now. I feel like you have like VP

potential trash because someone who's like, look, I don't choose red or blue. I have someone else choose red or blue for me. Like, like I feel like you have that like a very like down-to-earth business perspective here. It's like if I had time to think about red red versus blue, I wouldn't even, you know, I wouldn't be where I am today. Who cares? Blue. Honestly, honestly, yes. Like, I'm very compulsive. I'm just like, I'm going to do that. I like it. I like it.

I'm going to do it. All right, so how many people when they hear red versus blue do you think of Halo? Me. Okay, right here. That's what I grew up on. So when I saw red versus blue, when I saw this a first show up, I was just like, I like red versus blue. Yep. I think of police immediately.

Not halo. I'm not saying. How did you get those Pokemon cards? Yeah. Oh, Pokemon. We can't be driving red cars. Yeah. I have some opinions, but I think someone else should go.

Casey, what is your opinions here? Well, this is a tough one because I think if you look at the two, so it depends on how much empathy you have, I guess is what I would say, what you're going to pick. Because as I think we just had demonstrated to us, you know that a lot of people are going to pick blue for whatever reason. Like that's just a given, right? So the fact that if the entire world just everyone pushed red,

that would be the safest bet because we all know that we would survive. and then no one would have to die because we'd all hit red. What we know is a lot of people, including people we like, like trash, will pick blue for some reason. Hold on, hold on on time out, time out. I think I just zoned out on the explanation of red versus blue here. Is it yes, we know that? That's what you just said. No.

I don't. Wait, no. You are dead and you don't get to be a part of this. Hold on. Can we go? Can we rewind? Yes, we can. Yeah, yeah, of course.

What's the explanation here? Because whatever case is talking about. have no recollection of at all. I have never been more disappointed than you ever, because I read it out nicely for you. No, you want to know why I stopped paying attention? Because you were saying button really weird. And I was thinking about calling you out on it. And that's all I could think about.

He was like blue or red button. And he said button like that. And then as soon as he said button like that, I like completely stop listening. And I was like, I can't listen to it anymore. What's happening? I understand the book. Okay, read the paragraph again. Am I saying button wrong?

You said button? You said it like that, but then you changed it. Then you said it normal, and then you said button again. Because you're trying to read really slow. So anyway, that's all I can think about. So that's literally why I heard nothing. Let me just read it to you again, Trash, just in case. Okay, okay.

Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of the people press the blue button, only the people who press the red button survive. Which button would you press? Same answer. It's fine. Oh, my God. You don't know. You never know. What do you mean? You never do. What does that mean? What does that mean?

Here, let me restate the question. Can I restate the question? I'm going to be honest. I stopped listening again and I just, crash. Let me restate the question. I cannot pay attention. If more people push the blue button, everyone survived. Thanos was right. No, trash. Hold on. It was right.

Just hold on. I can't pay attention to the whole thing. Listen to the sound of my voice, trash. Yes. Okay. Everyone who presses the red button survives in any scenario. So if you press the red button, you survive. If you press the blue button,

You only survive if more than 50% of the world presses the blue button. That's the question. Which one do you push? Say that again? If you press the red button, you definitely survive, always. Okay, that's fine. In all outcomes. If you press the blue button, you only survive if more than 50% of the people in the world press the blue button.

Yeah, what's wrong with red? Also, I'm not saying there's a thing. I'm just asking which one you want to push. Oh, you guys are making me feel bad for pushing red? Yeah, I'm pushing red. What happened in here? You were pushing blue before. Oh, shit, I did pick blue before.

What's that? I completely forgot. I completely forgot. What's going on? Okay, okay. I'm like all over the ball. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're pushing red, dude. I'm not scared. Yeah. Yeah. You had a whole thing. You were like, I don't ever push red because the cops get me. Or whatever.

It was like, they're going to pull over my car. I really have no recollection of me saying that. So I'm sorry, I'm pushing red. Oh, my gosh. You want to know why I kept like not listening? It's because my AirPods kept switching to my phone so that I fixed it. And then my wife's in the bathroom outside my office. And I heard her flush the toilet.

So then I started like focusing on that. So I had to look. It's bad. But I hate phone with red, red, red, red, red. Let's go. All right. Thank you. So, Casey, in this red versus blue button situation,

how would you proceed? What I was trying to say before, but then circumstances have changed, but still, the problem with the question, like I said, is I think a lot of people will push blue, even though the easiest answer for humanity is everyone pushes red,

that way you don't have to trust anybody and everyone survives, right? The problem is a bunch of people will push blue for whatever reason. Either they're very scared of red, like trash, or they might interpret the question in a different way. They might interpret it, even if they understand logically what's going on. They might be like, which world do I want to live in? Like a high trust world where we're all going to do what's best for everybody, or are we going to live in a world where I only do what's best for me? Right. And so, you know, that to me is the problem is it's like you're kind of asking how much empathy does the person have if they logically understand the question. And then also how much empathy they have for people who don't understand any logic at all. Because a bunch of people are just going to not have any idea what it means and think that they should push blue for some reason. And all those people are going to die if all the logical people just press red and inflate that number, right?

So anyway, so I feel like it's a really hard question for that reason. The obvious answer is just to push red. if you're just motivated by self-preservation. And the answer, if you're a very, like, empathetic kind of, like, just trying to save people who can't save themselves or who are irrationally scared of red because of the cops, then you want to push blue to try and help skew those numbers. I don't honestly know what I would pick in this situation because I'm the kind of person who, like,

would immediately just ask, who, like, what is this button connected to? Like how did you, like, like, my immediate thought process is like, what is the circumstance? Like, the reason I don't like these things like trolley problems and whatever is I'm like, they don't really get it anything about humans because they're so fanciful that they, that humans' normal process of making decisions, such as I need to get my Pokemon cards and my wife flush the toilet and I don't like the color red, all of which are normal actual strategies for getting through life. they don't work when you have this weird thing that can't possibly exist.

Like, we don't even know how to build a button that kills only the blue button pushing people. Like, that's, you know, we don't have that, you know, or whatever. So I would say, I don't know. I'd probably push red because I'm too scared that it will end up being red because the logical people will push red. And so I'm just duming myself to die and not really helping the blue people. But at the same time, maybe that's what the other logical people are thinking, too. so if we all thought something else we could save the world, I don't know.

That's all I got. I am, I can't believe there were so many thoughts there. Sorry. Oh, trash. It's been, I had zero thoughts. I read like a thousand different tweets about this. I've been, it's been fun hearing everybody's opinions about it. Yeah, I didn't even think about any of that.

What did they say? I just want to let you know we all knew there were zero thoughts going on. Yeah. There were zero. I mean, like, in my. mind, if red is you survive, my assumption is most people want to live. But most people probably didn't quite understand that implication of it. Yeah, I guess there's one of the, yeah, one of the interesting things was I saw a few people

rerun the pole, but instead of it being framed this way, they framed it the other direction where they said, you and all the people in the world are standing above a giant wood chipper. if more than 50% of you jump into it, it gets blocked. But if you don't jump in, you live. And then like the pole greatly shifted because people were like, well, I don't want to jump into a wood chipper. That seems stupid. I can just stand right here. And so then it like completely flipped on some of them I saw.

It was like 75% chose like the red version now instead because they were like, well, that's, that's dumb. I don't want to jump into a wood chipper. I literally read it as do you want to live or maybe want to live. Well, right. So it was interesting because a lot of it felt like it comes down to the thing. Actually, what's funny, going back to the thing with like the New York Times stuff is you can make polls give you whatever answer you want depending on how you ask the question. So if you ask the question in a way that frames it, that choosing blue shows that you're a high trust society, people desire to live in high trust society and they pick blue. If you framed it the other way where it was, hey, I trust everyone that we're all going to pick red and not be really dumb.

And we're just going to pick red and survive. Then, like, the answer might have been flipped, right? Like, where it's where you get the opposite answer. So it was very, like, that was one of the very interesting things was just talking about, like, framing of polls and, like, how that happens. And then also, the other really weird thing, Prime, I don't know if you saw this as well, like every poll ended up like 50. 58 42 in favor of blue. So like everybody. Mr. Beast has one with 250,000 votes and blue's at 558.

Yeah. The thing is is that there's no consequences to you voting here. This is all hyper- Great point trash. So people could just push blue just to intentionally skew these numbers. So like you're going to ask me to trust all these people so I see more virtuous. Like, I don't know. I was, I was the thing a lot of people are like, see blue always.

wins, blah, blah, blah, blah. For me, like, 58, 42 on a pole with literally no, like, nobody's life is actually on the line. It is not actually a very conclusive result. The other, the other framing that was very interesting for a thought experiment was pressing the button for your family. So, like, do you press blue and then your whole family's in the blue or red and your whole family's in red, right? Like your kids and your wife or whatever. Right. Right. Or like, Because it was so funny when I was, I showed Kaleen this last night to like, I wanted to just see she's not online at all, basically. I was like, hey, what would be your answer to the poll? She reads it and she's like, wait, shouldn't everyone just pick red?

Like instantly, that was sir. She was like, I don't understand what the big dilemma is and the internet's freaking out. And it was very funny because I was like, oh, hold on. There's 20 billion impressions going on right now about this conversation. To be fair, though, has she left anything in the sink recently? No, no, I'm the sink fever. Trash would be doing receipts. Trash would be, his receipts would be full at my house if he was taking photos.

Ridiculous. So I'm actually, I am on Trash's initial side, which is that I don't want to devote time or thought to this type of problem because it's not real. Because the fact that 25% of the people would jump into a woodchipper, does not map to reality because if there was a legitimate woodchipper in front of you with grinding gears and everything people are going to be like I'm going to jump on that shit because we're all we're all jumping right on the count of three guys one not not a chance like right that number would be would be zero is my assumption so no no the number would not be zero I would like to challenge that assertion and the reason

for that is well there's insane people because somebody will get out their cell phone and start streaming live their jump into the woodchipper. It'll be on kick for sure. When that is the highest rated TikTok all of a sudden, before they pull it down because it's effectively a snuff film, then all the influencers are like, I've got to get to the woodchipper to like make sure that I get into it

before they turn it off, right? That will definitely happen. So there will be some small percentage of influencers in the woodchipper, other than that. But then want to be woodchipper. The influencers will be like, dude, I want to be with my influencer in the woodchipper. Yes. So there'll be some portion of the populace who will be in the woodchipper for the likes.

But everyone else I agree would stay on the cliff. Yeah. So that's kind of my thought process, which is if it's displayed that way, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, you know, there's just no way that any rational person, even partially sane person, would jump into the woodchipper. Like I would expect the crazy guy on the street yelling at nobody. would probably not jump into the wood chipper because he'd be like, ah, like that thing's terrifying, right? Like, just natural instincts would kick in at that point that you can even stop.

And so, but the greater one, which is people arguing over, does this mean that if you don't vote blue, you don't believe in, like, a high trust society? I think I saw on one random YouTube video about someone being like, well, Plato and Socrates and Marcus Aurelius would all vote for blue, whereas Hitler would vote for red because blah-da-blah, like one's individualistic, whereas the other one's, like, we all move together as a society.

But then you have to think, like, well, what kind of society is it that we, we would create in which people would automatically think we would all jump to our death, like to get, like, I just don't understand that as a society. Like, as a society, you would assume we'd go, okay, let's pick the best option. What's the best option? The guaranteed no death option. Well, and I'd also, I'd add a chaser to that prime, which is that in what universe are you imagining that there is a high trust

society that we've created that then nonetheless went through the trouble of building a giant death machine that presents people with a button, records everyone who pushed the button, and then kills all the people who push blue if not enough people pushed it. You're like, that doesn't sound very

high trust to me at all, right? Like, I don't know about that. So they the two things can't exist in the same universe, right? And so that's another reason why it doesn't make very much sense. This will be a Mr. Beast game though. Mr. Beast games too? There's going to be some like, hey, if every, like, you're guaranteed to go on. You're so right. You're so right. I thought he was maybe going to.

I thought he was going to go somewhere and actually, like, he has to kill the people for real. Yeah, right. Some island in the middle of the Pacific that's just far enough away. Private Island, international waters. He's got his own, everyone signed the waiver. That's awful. It's coming, trash, to an internet near you, I'm sure, unfortunately. the other really interesting question prime that I thought was uh was does it like so okay so what if instead of 50% needed to press blue what if it was like 75% or like 85% like there's a really like where is the curve where you would step off and be like I don't think like if you were a blue presser like where would you step off and be like there ain't no way 97% of the people are picking blue

also thinking then that you know less people are going to pick it because hilariously people are like well the odds are 50 50 I'm like you got that's not how it works just because there's two choices that doesn't mean that it's 50 50 whether so but when you switch the odds to being like oh you got to get 80 percent like at where is it like at where is it that people would step off the the blue train which is also really like an interesting thought experiment yeah so I don't I know. I put... Now I want to know the curve. Like, how fast is it dive after 50? Right. Is 55% enough to be like

100% of people pick red? Basically, you know, like... Well, we kind of know not because like in the woodchipper gruesome one, it still only went 25% where you're just like, wow, 25% of the people are just going to jump into a woodchipper. Like what? Like, okay.

I actually refused to believe that one. Me too. It doesn't make sense. 25% of the people are trolled. polling on the internet. I also kind of assumed that the poll would be for people, like if you're taking a poll and you have to press buttons, we have this magical world. I was assuming it's people of sound mind. You know what I? It's like, we're not asking a baby to press blue or red. That doesn't make any sense. I thought they were going to be dispelled from that because someone was like,

well, what if your kids press blue? I'm like, how are my kids pressing the button? I don't know. That didn't seem like it was part of the original equation. These are one of these things I just would like to purge from my from my brain immediately. Okay, then we can be done, trash. I feel like details, details are things like, I find, one of the reasons I find these kinds of things so annoying

like the trolley problem is just because they just don't tell you anything. Humans don't make decisions by doing like first order Boolean logic. That's not like how it works. Maybe say a maltman.

he might but his company doesn't right like the AIs he's making are non-linear Gobliner godlin mode you know what I'm saying I really want to figure out this goblin mode business we gotta we gotta have a goblin mode episode where you get some good goblin stuff for us but yeah we'll figure that out this week so I just feel like it's so dumb because it's just like it's it's pretending like you're trying to assess some aspect of human nature when really what you're doing is just purely masturbatory. It has nothing to do with human nature because the way that humans make decisions is a very like

like in programming terms, it's very floating point. It's very nonlinear. It's very like there's a bunch of things that are all coming together to make decisions and it's not about like, okay, try to imagine a world in which you're on a trolley, the trolley

can't be stopped. You're not normally a trolley operator. You're just somebody who like suddenly is the only person near the trolley controls. Arbiter of trolley. You can somehow see two tracks ahead of you clearly enough to tell what's on each of them. And you can tell that there's more people on one of the tracks than the other.

And you're just like, okay, anyone who's ever been in a situation where shit got out of control like a runaway trolley knows that you are just screaming and like pushing things randomly to try to get it to stop. That's what's actually happening in human nature. nobody is going like hmm like gosh what do you

gee Nigel what do you see up there on the second track are there more humans on the left one or the right one it's like that's not happening but how did they get tied yeah who tied them there let's find the tying guy

what's going on yeah and like why are we talking about this so it so it's so bad right um all right and it doesn't for a second we uh I am reading through some of Twitch chat, and there are some people very bothered about us not picking

blue. Okay. And the reason being is that why would we not want to try to save everybody's life? Well, there's this thing called Darwin. You see. And if we had a one where everyone pushed red, then at least we know that, like, everyone is just making a minimally rational choice. So I do think there's some argument.

to be said for it's like, all right, that's just, it's not just that if you pick blue, you're crossing your fingers and hoping that you end up in a high trust society. You could also just want to live in a very rational society. And that seems like is equally valid choice here, right? It's like, it's fine, right? Like, that just seems like a totally rational thing to do in that case. It's sort of like asking, like, you know, why do people sometimes want to go to war? Like, yeah, human nature is kind of messy. You don't have to always pick the thing that seems the maximally pacifistic thing or something like that, you might just be like, yeah, you know, like self-preservation is important to me. I think everyone should know

well enough to push this button if people for some reason don't even want to have self-preservation. Like, they're not willing to push the red because they're just hoping everyone push blue. It's like, I don't like that. Like, I don't want to live in that world. I want to live in the world where everyone's sensible to push red. That seems totally fine with me. Like I said, I don't know which one I push, I think I said kind of before, I really don't know, but I think the case for blue is overblown, right? Like, suggesting that somehow that's like this perfectly virtuous thing to do, it just, that just sounds very, like, fanciful to me, because it's like, okay, you want to live in a world where people are pushing the blue button, knowing that they're putting their lives at risk,

because you just think it's good for them to put their lives at risk in a thing where nothing happened. There wasn't, there wasn't even like a good thing attached to it. It wasn't like, we all survive and we get a little more prosperity. Like there wasn't a chaser to it that was like, and it's like, it's just bad. All you're doing is putting your life at risk for no benefit. Why do I want to encourage that behavior, right? So, I don't know. I think the case is overblown.

We also have people saying if Prime would think only what would C.S. Lewis do, he'd push the blue button without a thought. Like, I don't know if I can really say what somebody else would do. It is very, very confusing thing because the problem with this is, is that we have, the problem that I have is that people have set up this, this theoretical world in their mind that massive amounts of people are pressing a blue button.

Like, I just don't, it's not even about pressing, in my head at least, it's not about like, oh, either you're a good or bad person if you press red or blue. And so some of the arguments are like, oh, the only logical choice is to press the blue, like the red button because there's plus 50% evil people. Like, I don't think you're evil if you press the red button.

I'm just confused as to the, point of all this being there is only one right answer. Well, to rephrase it as the woodchipper, too. It's like, do you want to live in a world where a bunch of people are going to jump off a cliff into a woodchipper because they think it's virtuous that if they all do it together, they won't die? It's like, no, that just suggests to me that most of my time spent as a citizen in that

world is going to be going around trying to convince people just to take basic precautions to keep themselves safe because they think that the way the world works is that everyone in the whole world is looking out for their safety all the time. I don't really think that's a great way to go. Like, I would rather people, when presented with an easy way to make sure that they're okay, that the only people it puts at risk is people who wouldn't make a similar choice, like wouldn't put their own safety as a primary concern for them, which literally imperils nobody else except people who aren't willing to do that. It just, in a way, I might almost cast blue pressers as selfish. They're basically wanting

the rest of the world to do their work for them, right? They're not willing to. to push red, which is the sensible choice here that doesn't require anyone else to do anything to ensure your safety, but you're like, no, I would rather push the blue button and force everyone else to, like, put their personal safety on the line for nothing, right? Nothing at all. We get no gain. It's just so that other people can feel good about pushing the blue button. It feels selfish. It feels a little bit selfish now that I'm thinking it through to push the blue button. Yeah, like, I don't know. I was actually thinking about a movie scenario where I get kidnapped by the blue people. Oh, nice. Four hours up to finish voting. They're like, you have to

push blue or we kill your family right now. Yeah. Or they pick blue and they potentially live. I don't know. That's literally all I was thinking about the past like 20 minutes. I would think this question would make a lot more sense. If there was like some sort of negative action associated with red as well. Like, hey, not only do you, if you press red, not only does this happen, but it forces, you know, someone else to press blue and there must be 75% of people who press blue or, you know, like then you're like, okay, well, now you're, you're creating a situation in which I'm hurting somebody else. Well, another way to look at it, like I said, is attach some positive thing to the blue pushing, right? So, in other words, if you push red, you're guaranteed to live.

If you push blue, you will only live if more than 50% of the people push it, but you will have increased prosperity. Like, there will be no more starvation. Like, there will be no more food shortages in the world. It'll just be, you know, everyone will be able to eat food and live. I start to see the case. Now it does sound to me like, okay, if we live in a high trust society, we have this chance to do something beneficial, but we all have to buy into it or a high percentage of us have

to buy into it in order to make it work. Now that's sounding more rational. But the people who are making this case for the blue button as if it's somehow more virtuous seem to be in their head attaching a fake benefit to it. But there is no benefit. The only benefit is saving people who pushed blue for no reason. That's the only benefit. They all could have pushed red, and all they're really doing is forcing you to be charitable for nothing, right?

And again, that just doesn't sound like positive to me. That doesn't sound like a positive outcome. I still don't know, like, because like I said at the beginning when I was talking about what I would push, I'm like, I am worried about the fact that I think a lot of people will push blue, this because of human nature. So at that point, you're kind of like, gosh, I don't want to kill all those people, so I'm going to push blue. But that's not because I thought it was virtuous. That's just because I think people are doing something kind of dumb. Yes. Right. So then that would be, yes, that is the sort of, that's been my big, like, I've been going back and forth in my head a lot about it because you're like, you feel, like, I don't think Prist Green Blue makes me like a good person, but it would be like in that I think there's a good chance a lot of other people do it. And so I would prefer to save them over the other alternative. But like also, it's also like, do I get to talk to my kids and my wife first? Like, you know, like, I get that it's a private.

and I can't know what the vote is going to be, but like, do I know, like, because I'm, if, if my kids are going to push red, then I want to push red to make sure I'm there to be able to take care of them. You know what I mean? Right. Like, that would be the self-list thing to do in some way. And if, and if they push blue, you might want to be pushing blue to increase the odds that they survive, right? And so, you know, if someone's very, like, if someone's very, like, tribally oriented, they're going to want to know what the other people and whatever their tribe is are doing because that may affect their you know their decision right uh that's totally a valid way to approach it as well yeah anyways i don't know this was uh this got real deep

i'm trash no matter what though this was worth talking about just for the intro for this topic thank you so much for that that was the get to the internet really personally i think we could cut this entire conversation except for the trash purse that's almost what i was thinking It was, like, that's funnier. It was the only, like, basically, like, the clip for this show should just be that trash part, because it was amazing. And the reasoning was so much better. Like, in all honesty, that's way better reasoning than any of the, like, any of this other stuff. It's just because it's, like I said, I think these kind of questions are totally masturbatory.

They have nothing to do with what people would actually do in a real scenario that presented them with a choice that, you know, as similar as a choice as you could get to this, which is pretty far-fetched to begin with. I love the thing. It's like, like I hate red. I'm pushing blue. Yeah, that made me. It's so good.

Trash, I also missed the whole explanation too. No, but that's, you missed it twice. That's on you the second time to miss it the second time. And because pushing,

and saying button, because you were saying button. I had excuses for that though. I had excuses for the second. He had excuses, guys. Also, I will say,

Trash, you doing that made me think, dang, I really have to press blue. You know, it's like, yeah. Okay,

fine. There's going to be too many. And I'll maybe see you later. Honestly, it is true. Trash has done more for me pressing blue than anything else has. I don't have anything else. Great episode of the stand-up. Was it?

Thanks to trash, maybe. Thanks to trash. I laughed a lot. Yeah, that was great. The Wikipedia stuff, I had no idea about that. I thought, see, I was under the same impression that trash was, was that anyone could edit it and there was just like some sort of ownership. of whoever was the first person.

No, no, no, no. Some sort of stash overflow karma system going on. It's more, Wikipedia is more like an aristocracy. There's like certain editors who are like, you know, have the official Wikipedia power, and they go around just doing stuff. And if they don't like your language or your politics or your whatever the page is about, then you just have nothing you can do about it. They just write a wired article that change the page.

See, actually, no. You can game the system. You absolutely can if you have access to the media. Wired says that the Bible's not actually historically accurate. So therefore, to bring this back to programming, that's like one of my favorite stories from Began, where he wanted, this was when he was on his Ruby on Rails era. He really wanted to patch the global string class

to like do some fun stuff for them to make some, I don't know, to make something more elegant or whatever. And the code reviewer was like, bro, we are not patching the string global. That's crazy. So Began went home, different account, makes a ruby gem, publishes the ruby gem, goes back to work, adds the ruby gem as a dependency.

Nobody reads dependencies. Check it's in. He got exactly what he was looking for. That's the Wikipedia strategy, guys. Get a quick job at Wired. You can be notable. There you go. I do like that.

By the way, if anyone from Wired wants to write a quick article, so I get a Wikipedia page. Notable red button pusher, the primogen. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yep. Also, we didn't even address whole colorblind people. Like, that could be very dangerous. If it's a dark enough shade of blue,

like, that could really be a dangerous place we're in. Can we get a wired article that's like the YouTube personality who told his million followers to press the red button? Yeah. There we go. Yeah. Noted misanthrokes of primogen. That's insane.

that's because it's really easy to do thoughtful masturbation as Casey would say it's just it's so masturbatory I hate those I hate them so much I hate these red blen the red blue button question I hate the trolley problem all of these things are just so bad

and I'm just like don't just don't like just stop only you can prevent masturbatory philosophical nonsense kids is that Smokey the Bear reference right there yeah it's Smokey the Bear Smokey the Philosopher Smoky the Masterpatorial philosopher

yeah like Smokey the philosopher, he heads down to the head shop and he buys like some stiff, stiff weed and he just like makes this shit up, right? Like he's just like, oh man, what if there were like two buttons and like everyone in the world had to

like push one or two people? Like, shut, shut up. Just shut up. You are so wasting everyone's time with this crap. That's when I go, I hate red, bro. All right. Well, Trash's answer is the only valid answer. Trash's answer is the only valid answer.

No thought should be given. We're sorry for bringing it up. I'm usually always right to be honest. Bye-bye. Bye. The end. Boat up the day. Fibrearer errors on my screen.

Terminal coffee. And hell living.