The Supermassive Podcast - Astronauts. Do we need them?

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

It’s a brave question to put to three astronauts live on stage but it’s a risk we are prepared to take. Recorded in front of a live audience at the UK Space Conference in Manchester, European Space Agency astronauts Tim Peake, Meganne Christian and John McFall discuss the future of human space exploration. Could robots or AI take their place? Will a trip to the Moon be as common as flying across the Atlantic? And can humans be trusted to not mess with Mars?  Host Izzie Clarke asks the big questions, producer Richard Hollingham threatens the audience, and (soft sceptic) Dr Robert Massey is prepared to be unpopular as they contemplate the role of astronauts in the 21st century. Join The Supermassive Club for ad-free listening and share your questions, images and more. Or email them to [e-mail] or on Instagram @SupermassivePod. The Supermassive Podcast is a Boffin Media production. The producers are Izzie Clarke and Richard Hollingham. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, welcome to the supermassive podcast from the Royal Astronomical Society. We are live at the UK Space Conference in Manchester. Yay. I'm science journalist Izzy Clark, and for this special edition of the podcast, I'm joined as usual by Dr. Robert Massey, the deputy director of the Royal Astronomical Society. I mean, this is... That doesn't normally happen. It's amazing to be here.

I was thinking, I was a PhD student here 35 years ago, 30 years ago. And I remembered a nice connection, which is that my university department in the 1960s, for a slightly nefarious arrangement, got a load of money from NASA to take pictures of the moon. So you've got Jodrell Bank down the road, which Andy Burnham was rightly talking about, but also, you know, there's that nice local collection.

I think half a million images of the moon that NASA used to help find landing sites for Apollo. So, and Richard was reminding me, it's actually the, I don't, I can't remember what year, because my brain's not, what, 36th, 56th anniversary of the Apollo 11th was on its way to the moon on this date in 1969. So there you go, some nice connections. Oh, lovely. Yeah, we should have done the maths before. We should have, yeah, exactly, the quick chat. I mean, yeah, basic arithmetic.

It's not a good look. And for one month only, we have let our executive producer out from behind his computer screen lurking in the background. and we are joined by science and space journalist Richard Hollingham. Oh, well down, well down. Thank you. Thank you very much. You've not heard me yet, but I did wear the appropriate shirt for the occasion. We don't often have astronauts on the podcast, but this time we have three. In fact, it is an intimidating panel of overachievers on the stage with us.

And it's fair to say, when we have astronauts, Yes, it doesn't happen often, but we're going big. We're really going for it. We'll be discussing why send humans into space and could robots or AI do a better job? They're all looking at me slightly threateningly now. Yeah, I know. That's brave, Richard.

I know Robert's got some thoughts on that as well, so good luck, Robert. And I'm so excited. Thank you all for being here. So we are joined by John McFaul. He's a surgeon and a Paralympic sprinter. He lost the lower part of his right leg after a motorcycle accident at 19. John has been training with the European Space Agency and is set to become the first astronaut with the disability.

Also with us is McGahn Christian, a reserve Easter astronaut. She works for the UK Space Agency on the commercialisation of space exploration. And our final guest spent 186 days in space in 2015 and 16 as part of his Principia mission, inspiring a generation of young people. It's Tim Peake. We'll hopefully have time for some audience questions later. And before we get into our discussion, I thought it would be good to just hear from our guests, sort of one at a time.

And, I mean, Tim, it's been almost 10 years since you launched the Space Station. I was lucky enough to do your commentary. Yeah. And my famous phrase will go down in history, there's Tim! As you entered the Space Station, do you miss it? Oh, I miss it every day. I think every astronaut who's ever flown to space does miss that view of looking back on the planet.

But it's more than that. It's the camaraderie. It's being at the cutting edge of science and technology. Every day on the space station is a very special day because you're touching somebody's project that they may have spent five, ten years working on and it's going to have fundamental impacts on people's quality of life back on Earth.

So it's an amazing environment to work in. Does it feel like 10 years? It doesn't. It feels like yesterday. And what's quite nice, is of course I've been very closely engaged with the space sector ever since landing and still am. So I still feel very connected to my friends, my colleagues and what's happening in space right now. And John, talk us through your work at EC. What are some of the most fun parts and some of the most challenging parts?

Yeah, so I started with ESA back in mid-20203. So I've been there for about two years now. But the main reason, or I was recruited as part of the class in 2020, 2022 alongside McGahn, but ESO wanted to ask the question, could someone with a physical disability be a professional astronaut? And so I went out to, I moved to Germany with my family and worked with the European Space Agency doing a feasibility study to assess exactly that, really. And so what we did is systematically looked at what the existing requirements were for an astronaut to live and work in space. And then we tried to understand where

me with my disability and my prosthesis, what we would need to do to still meet those requirements. So we're not changing the requirements because we are constrained by the existing ISS framework and hardware and operations. So, yeah, we looked at areas of basic training, mission-specific training, spacecraft and ISS operations, as well as a lot of medical aspects. you know, well over 80 areas of consideration that we had to do assessments for, so things like, you know, can I meet the emergency requirements of the spacecraft to evacuate the spacecraft if there was an emergency at launch? Would I need to wear a prosthesis to do that? If I do, the prosthesis has to be certified to be worn inside the spacesuit, for example. Can I exercise,

if I go on a long-duration mission, can I tolerate the requirements for the exercise countermeasures, you know, running on a treadmill, doing the resistance exercise, that sort of stuff. You know, and do you know what? None of it has been horrendously challenging, actually. It's been, and it's not to say by any means it's been due process, but it's been very interesting for me unpicking what are those requirements and bringing my knowledge and background and experience to try and help answer those. But for me, I always love the operational side of things when you're kind of hands-on doing stuff and testing stuff. So, yeah, it's been very interested.

I was just thinking on that. We were talking about this earlier, and I thought, you're in a zero-g environment, so your limbs sort of play a slightly different role anyway. I mean, obviously you're an athlete on Earth anyway, but I was just thinking whether there might even be some advantages, you know, or at least no disadvantages at all. Yeah, I think, you know, one thing I could think of on a physiological level,

I essentially have lower blood volume than, say, Tim and McGahn proportionally relative to our whole body mass in my lower limbs. so when you're in the microgravity environment you do get a fluid shift because you haven't got gravity pulling the blood down into your legs which affects the way the fluid in your body is redistributed missing a limb I will have a less of a significant shift potentially in that which might be significant for things like space associated neuroocular syndrome or raised intracranial pressure or the cardiovascular system for example

so there may be some benefits Yeah. And McGahn, you've been training this year. What has that involved? It's been amazing. So we all come from really different backgrounds. Some of us are scientists, some are engineers, doctors, pilots. Overachievers. Yeah, I think that's the theme, isn't it? Yeah. Rosebree with a PhD in astrophysics ready. They're becoming an astronaut.

Yeah, and I think most of us are probably perfectionists as well, like that I think it comes with a territory. My background is in material science. I spent a lot of time working on graphene, which is my connection to Manchester, because graphene was synthesized for the first time here in Manchester. But then I went and spent a year in Antarctica doing climate change and research and so on. So that's my background,

but it's completely different from anybody else's. And so the basic training is all about getting everybody up to the same sort of level across a wide range of disciplines. And so we do scientific disciplines. I've done the biology module so far, but there are also, there's also astronomy. We also start our training in the neutral buoyancy facility, so underwater, simulating the conditions of weightlessness that you might have during an extra vehicle activity. We do survival training, winter survival, sea survival.

Yeah, I've seen a picture of you lighting a fire, I think. Yeah, I mean, you have to learn how to survive in the wilderness, in the cold. I would not survive. Just in case, you know, if your capsule lands in somewhere unexpected. So that's what that's about. So with your astronomy you were learning, I'm going to ask three of you, actually, do you have to learn astro-navigation still as a fallback? Do you know how to find your way by the stars at night?

Oh, I do not. So the astronomy module is yet to come for me. I don't know if you've done it already. I have. And we had some classes in reading the night sky from different areas we had it wasn't a formal test but it was like okay you had to stand inside a little tent inside this observatory and they would project the night sky of any given day of the year and you had to say what hemisphere you were in roughly what time of year it was as well

and that was super interesting being able to try to pick out key stars to try and triangulate your position I don't know what your experience is that it was a It was very similar. Yeah, so basic navigation, basic constellation recognition, but not to the level, I think, that the Apollo astronauts would have studied it. I was going to say that Apollo 13,

that they're having to hold, literally looking through glass. Using a sexton. Sexton, yeah. I know Alex Guest, my German counterpart, he took her sextant up with him. He wanted to kind of study that and actually navigate by the stars.

So, no, but we do, obviously the space station, uses star tracking systems as one is its redundant systems. GPS is its primary navigation system for attitude and navigation control. Amazing. So this episode is about the role of astronauts and robotic in the future of space exploration.

So I think this is probably a question to all of you. What do you see as the role of the astronaut in the 21st century? It's an easy question to start. I don't think he's got a future. Thank you very much. I think you're probably going to find from all three of us. I mean, I think it's going to be very interesting.

Human spaceflight, I think, in the low-earth orbit environment, we're going to see a large, much larger number of people flying into space. I think it might become a little bit like aviation. You know, back in the 1920s, 1930s was when we started carrying passengers across the Atlantic. and now we're getting into the environment where we're starting to see astronaut passengers going into space after very limited amounts of training as long as they can take care of themselves,

they understand the basics of the emergency procedures, the life support systems, the spacesuit they're wearing. You might have a professional crew who are flying the spacecraft, docking the spacecraft, and passengers who are going into space for maybe other reasons. Maybe it's for running science programs, maybe it's for entertainment, maybe it's for tourism, that kind of new space economy,

and largely driven by the reduced cost of getting there and back. So that opens up whole new levels of opportunity that we haven't yet seen. But then you start thinking about, okay, now let's look at moon, and now let's look at Mars, and now let's look at beyond. And I think to moon and to Mars, now this is medium-term future, we are going to see more and more humans going to those destinations. beyond Mars becomes very problematic and I think that's probably something

we'll discuss further on in the podcast so what you're saying is it's like a sort of professional class of astronauts who'd be like your pilots and co-pilots like an aircraft that would take scientists perhaps up to a private space station I can see a future where we have a lunar research station and you may have one professional astronaut on board a spacecraft who's carrying a number of researchers, scientists to that lunar research station who might be spending a three

months day on the surface of the moon. And they don't need to know the ins and outs, the technical details of that spacecraft. They simply need to be able to look after themselves and act as a responsible passenger. McGahn, it strikes me as sort of what you'd done in Antarctica to some extent. I mean, I can really see. I would love to see, actually, the future of lunar exploration looking something like what Antarctic exploration looks like, because it is all this peaceful collaboration, international collaboration for scientific purposes, and it's all based on the Antarctic Treaty, which has a whole lot of elements around it that mean you can't leave things in Antarctica, you know, you have to take things away, you can't pollute it, but also it's all about that

peaceful collaboration and it's all about the science. So I would love to see lunar exploration being kind of based on that model. Yeah, and I suppose why do you... I mean, it seems silly to ask a panel of astronauts discussion, but John, you know, why are astronauts still so important? I think maybe when you think about why you don't want to send humans to space, it may be an interesting way to look at it as well. Humans are risky, right?

We're pretty stupid. We make mistakes. And space, a lot of what we're... we do in space nowadays is about de-risking, but there is just some stuff that you cannot do in space at the moment where we are without the human in the loop. And so we're not at a position where we can detach and completely de-risk. We still, to build those AI models, to have that remote capability where maybe it is just robotics and that sort of stuff, we haven't got enough knowledge and platform to build that on yet. And we still need to be. We still need to

human there. And you know, if we are going to explore further, I think the way that humans are built, we are very good at being autonomous. Yes, we are slightly high risk. And so as maybe pathfinders and leaders and explorers, which I guess is where we're so valuable in those uncharted territories where we don't have data, we have that ability to adapt and bring back information. And human physiology, for example, if you're going to need humans to do that, you're going to need to understand how humans live and survive in those environments, which is why it's so important to have humans in space and understand, especially space physiology, psychology, in the space, in the microgravity in space environment.

What about working with robots? Because, I mean, Tim, you've done some of that. You did some of that on the International Space Station. I've seen some of the videos. It actually looks quite frustrating. It doesn't look quite as easy as it's perhaps portrayed. Yeah, and I think some of the technology is novel, cutting edge, and immature, and therefore, yes, some can be tricky. So, just talk through what you did on the space station. Well, the kind of things, we've got robinort on the space station, which is a prototype that can potentially help with repetitive, sort of mindless tasks, or can go outside on a spacewalk and actually de-risk some of the activities that the humans have to get involved in, or to prepare a work site so you can maximize the human effort when you're doing.

do go outside on a spacewalk, those kind of things. There's an artificial intelligent robot called Seamon that's flown on the space station. The AI resided on Earth, and it just was able to maneuver itself around the space station using fans and helped to evaluate the emotional well-being of the crew. And how did you feel about that?

I think most of the crew were a little bit dubious what it was actually doing, whether it was working, and how much they really wanted to interact with that. But it's fun to. to explore these kind of technologies. Ultimately, where we're going is imagining a scenario when you're on a Mars mission, you've got a long transit there,

you've got a 10 minute delay to mission control, and an emergency scenario evolves, which rapidly is deteriorating. If you have an AI mission command center on your spacecraft that can really help with your decision-making cycle, then that's a very valuable tool. You've still got a human in the loop,

as John was saying, not saying that we're gonna have AI, plugged into the flight safety critical software, you know, but you're definitely going to have it there on a separate laptop where you can kind of listen to what HALS says. HALS says, yes. Whether to decide, we were all thinking 2,001, yeah. But it's also a lot on the medical side of things as well,

having this database and basically an AI doctor, if you're going on a long-duration mission, you might well have a doctor on board, but you might not. And so having an AI doctor who can help diagnose and prescribe, potentially even 3D print medicines, which is a possibility, then that's another aspect that's really being, you know, that interaction between humans and robots is going to be the way forward.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so I'm here apparently slightly is the soft skeptic for the panel. I'm not going to do a Paxman on them, I promise. But I was reading the bookmaster Reese co-author, which I'm sure you've seen the end of astronauts, which is probably the worst title to bring to this podcast. You've done it anyway. I've done it anyway.

I've done it anyway. It's interesting arguments. They kind of set out the different mechanisms and so on. And I think actually the main conclusion from it is more that you see a shift to adventure tourists for astronauts. And his argument, as I'm sure you're aware, is that you end up downscaling to AI systems and robots and so on. So I suppose my question is,

how do you see that balance evolving over time? If we ask this question, again, maybe not in the next few decades, but in a century's time, will it be that tourists are the people going into orbit and most of the hard stuff is being done by robots? You know, that actually we don't see astronauts as the big explorers because the risk of humans are too great, you know, or that it's just so much easier to do it with robots and you get the same results.

I mean, you know, the classic thing is geologists on Mars would do amazing things. And of course, that's right. They'd walk around. They'd say, oh, that's a great rock, pick it up, and your rover's being controlled. from the Earth for the time lag of tens of minutes at best? I think this is actually the same question as why do we have humans, right? Like, why doesn't the AI just take over everything?

Hold your beer. I think it's the same question, and the answer is that we don't know what all the jobs are going to be in the future. You know, that it's going to evolve, and whether that's on Earth or whether that's in space, We just don't know what those jobs are going to be in the future. And yes, I think a lot of what we do now will be replaced by robots and AI and so on. But I think there are going to be so many other things that we just haven't yet dreamt of that we will be doing as humans in space.

Yeah. I think it would be interesting. I think you would potentially have an environment and economy where actually you don't even think about astronauts in the same way with thinking about astronauts today. And I go back to the analogy of an airline pilot, and you're carrying people. You'll have a community on the moon, a community on Mars 100, maybe 200 years in the future. So this is a long-term vision.

They'll be working hand-in-hand with robots just the same way as humans on Earth will be working with robots. We'll be utilizing resources that are in the solar system. The Earth has a finite amount of resources. So why do we want to plunder that at the damage and expense of the environment when there are asteroids with more rare earth metals

than we could possibly know what to do with, let's go and get it there. Let's harness the clean, limitless energy that the sun is providing and by having massive solar farms out in space that can use microwaves to beam that energy down. So we'll be using space in a different way. Let's manufacture all of our microprocessors up there

because there are 100 times more effective when you get a silicon substrate that's been grown in space. than when it's been grown back here on Earth, printing human organs in space, you know, all of these kind of ways that would be utilising space with a huge workforce, yes, with robots and humans working together.

And I think that we will just see it as an extension of our existence on Earth. One topic that captures everyone's imagination is the future of exploring the moon. So what do you think, is next for that, and how do you think that could pan out, John? Yeah, I think certainly it depends what sort of time scale we're looking at, right? And if we're looking at what we're hoping to do in the future,

it's going back to different places of the moon that we haven't landed on before. But with a view to, with specific questions in mind, can we utilize the natural resources of the moon, water on there? can we use that to make fuel and oxygen? But I think there will be almost like an exponential growth in our learning curve, but also the skills and the expertise that we acquire. And I guess the more that we do it, again, like low Earth orbit is becoming more accessible, that the need and the interest in lunar exploration

will drive accessibility as well. well. I think as long as we bear in mind that we do it responsibly as well I think is important. There is that, yeah. Sorry. I think everyone has an idea of like let's all do it responsibly. Yes, please, carry on. I suppose

maybe Tim is better place to answer this question. Is everyone going to do it responsibly? I very much doubt it. But it's interesting. I mean, we're in interesting times at the moment where the space economy

is booming and growing exponentially, looking at a trillion-dollar economy by 2030, and a number of satellites today, about 11.5,000 in orbit. We're projecting 30,000 satellites by the end of this decade, and again, growing exponentially. So whilst we're using space for all of these exciting things, you know, I didn't mention about orbital data centers. Let's get all the data centers off the planet. They've got enough energy up there. They've got thermal rejection into space.

It's a much better place to have them. But we've got to use space responsibly. Every launch is obviously burning at the moment fossil fuels to get us into orbit, although that technology is getting cleaner. But we still need to understand what impact that's having on the upper atmosphere. And in terms of debris, we need to be able to make sure we keep that a clean environment for the future. So I'm actually an ambassador for the Astra Carter, which is King Charles's initiative, Sustainable Markets Initiative,

which is looking at how we do operate sustainably. So exactly that question, responsibility. Let's get some rules of the road, an operating framework, not regulatory, not smothering innovation. So like Rules of the Sea. Absolutely, just like the International Maritime Organisation, just like ICAO for aviation, it works. Nobody questions the fact that you can be a private pilot

and go and enjoy some hang gliding or light aircraft flying, but you're not going to go, mix it with the airliners, you know, in an airway. That would be foolish and dangerous. And yet we don't have that in space. You can go and do high-risk R&D on a small constellation of satellites where you didn't get any insurance, you didn't get, you know, the proper regulatory sort of framework to go and do that. And you can put other major constellations at risk and jeopardize that environment. Why are we not having an operating framework in space where everybody can work in a low-risk environment.

I guess, well, why? I mean, is that something you've got any thoughts? It's happening. I think the IMO, ICAO are frameworks where we can use that and just say we're simply going to extend this into space. I mean, they are both United Nations-based frameworks. So I think the UN does have a huge role to play here in providing that framework.

And also, in terms of why everybody should be interested in this, Anybody who's got a commercial interest in space also has an interest in keeping it as a sustainable, long-term, economically viable initiative. So you want to keep it clean. You want to keep your insurance premiums down. So let's start. I mean, the UK is actually really well placed.

We've got a great financial sector. We've got a great insurance sector. Let's incentivise companies. Let's say we'll provide the launch license. We'll provide the operator license. We'll give you access to markets. We'll give you access to venture capital. access to low insurance

if you come and do it sustainably and respond to you. I mean, I'm on the board about the executive committee of SC that looks at these issues and I agree with you. I think the challenge for me is the UN ought to be the place to do it, but while the discussions happen, you know, it took five years to get

from our perspective dark and quiet skies onto their agenda and in the meantime 10,000 satellites were launched you think, yeah, just, you know, manage it. I think managing to cope with the ambitions of particular players in space is a real challenge, you know. I mean, I hesitate to use the M word for one of those because

it's, you know, a bit Marmite, but to say the least. But, you know, that I think is the difficulty in actually reacting quickly enough to deal with this. You know, we don't know, for example, really what the impact of what did seem like a great idea, you know, deal with everything in the upper atmosphere and now we're thinking, do we really want to do that?

Do you want 100,000 satellites burning up in the upper atmosphere? And also, if you are going to burn up, there's a lot of science to be done there. Actually, burning up at a shallow trajectory is not good. Burning up at a steep trajectory is much better. By the time you get those aluminium oxides, the heavy particles,

they want to be lower in the atmosphere so they'll fall to earth, not hanging around in the upper atmosphere where it could cause more pollution over a long period of time. So we've still got a lot to learn about how to do this responsibly. I love the way this conversation is gone.

Let me bring it back to astronauts. My bad as well. You can edit all this stuff out. Yeah, we'll edit all this stuff out to him. Because I want to bring back to it because I think that one that I've asked to defend astronauts because I'm a big fan of astronauts, believe it or not, is the aspiration side of being, of you being our representatives out there of, you know, the amount that you did on the space station with the education with Principia, Tim.

And it's just, and the amount, you know, McGahn and John are doing now with the, you see the kids here. You see the kids, I mean, this is a full room of people to come. to see astronauts. They're not come to see us. And that's quite the thing, isn't it? The aspiration, the fact that you are out there, you are out there doing it. I mean, Megan. Yeah, I mean, my heroes are the explorers of years past, right? I'm a big fan of Shackleton and so on. And space explorers, astronauts are kind of that for now. And I think it's because there is so much that we don't know. There is so little understanding.

and yet quite a lot of what's out there and we actually get to go and be those new explorers and that somehow is just inspiring to everybody. I'm inspired. It's incredible. Yeah, for me, there's something fundamentally human about what we do and it's not everyone, right? Not every human wants to go into space or climb Everest or whatever. There is a tranche of humanity who are very interested in

doing that. But it is a very fundamental human trait. And I do think that astronauts are envoys of Earth and should be representative of humanity, which is why I'm so proud to be in the position that I'm in, the endeavor that we're doing at Easter of, you know, someone with a physical disability representing the, you know, humanity in space. So yeah, it's something that, like you, I am so inspired. I get all fired up inside when I think about adventure and exploration. And for me, it's a no-brainer. Like, it's not a question of why. It's why not send humans to space for me.

Yeah, but I've always loved to challenge an adventure. It's there. It's there. I always like to keep things really simple because I'm a simple person. So I've broken it down to three pillars from myself. And I think spaceflight, human spaceflight, it's all about science, exploration, and inspiration. Science we've spoken about, all the amazing things we're doing

in space and why. Exploration, the innate human desire to find out what's across that horizon, what's over the mountain, is never going to leave us. And that third pillar of inspiration, inspiring our future generations is so important. I was so excited today. We were sat in the studio this morning with the BBC. And I was thinking, wow, look, you know, four British Issa astronauts here. And it took 25 years pretty much from Helen Sharman's flight in 91 to the mere space station to my Principia mission in 2015. And then fast forward, you know, 10 years later, we've now got four British astronauts who are eligible for a mission today. So really exciting times for the UK. And I don't think we can underestimate the inspirational effect that will have

on our younger generation, you know, who see that and think, well, that's something to aspire to. And you may not want to be an astronaut, but it's just showcasing, okay, but look at all the amazing things you can do in the space sector. Totally. And I think the collaboration that goes into the space industry as well, there are so many different things that people can get involved in and are just fundamentally exciting and cool. So what do you think is the most exciting thing about the future of human spaceflight and human exploration?

Oh, good question. Thank you. Because we've only just scraped the surface. Yes, we've had a permanent human purpose. presence in low Earth orbit for 25 years. Yes, we've been to the moon, but we haven't been back again since the 70s. But the moon is so close, you know. There's so much further that we can go.

And so much to discover, so much to learn. And I think it's all there for us. And the next generation are the ones that are going to be going to Mars and to maybe some moons of other planets. So it's, yeah, it's amazing. I can't wait to watch it. Yeah. John? For me, I'm super excited about, you know, through problem solving comes innovation.

And when you're really trying to achieve these goals that we are trying to achieve in space exploration, there is always a flood of innovation that comes with it with a trickle-down effect to benefit humanity. This is what I like to think anyway. And I think purely from my situation, being an amputee and stuff, and I think about advances in semiconductors, AI, this sort of stuff. I'm thinking, you know, limb loss, it could have massive impacts for limb loss in changing the complexities of prosthetics. And we say we have, you know, AI robots assisting astronauts in space,

but actually why not very, very bionic humans, where you maybe have a cortical overlay of your sensory and motor cortices picking up the kind of tiny electrical waves that your brain is making for movement and sensation and that is now controlling your prosthesis and getting to that stage and often from these endeavours

you get these spoutings of technology and innovation that also drive other areas of industry. Tim? I'm excited about lots of different things I mean, in the very near future, what's really exciting is Artemis. You know, next year, potentially four astronauts going around the moon. We haven't seen that since 1968, you know, for that kind of Apollo 8 moment, orbiting the moon. And then potentially the year later, looking at boots back on the surface again.

And as McGahn said, I know how long ago that was because it's the same year that I was born. Yeah, me too. Gene Zern and Harrison Schmidt leaving the surface. So for new generations or many new generations to be able to watch that in colour, TV, 4K, high definition, that's going to be mind-blowing. It's going to be so exciting. So there's kind of an initial excitement coming up very, very soon.

But actually, I think what in the longer term is exciting, and I was speaking to Josh, CEO of SpaceForge, about this recently at an event. And he said, I consider success when my job becomes boring. He's making semiconductors in space. at the moment, that's really exciting. That's really cutting-edge novel technology. He said, success is when my job's boring,

because it becomes so ordinary. Because it's routine. And again, looking at the longer-term future, I think that's the same. It becomes exciting when actually it's routine. The fact that humans are flying to space is just like, well, yeah, didn't you fly to Florida? How was it?

Have a good holiday, have a good trip. We had a conversation once about whether we'd go in space. And I think we concluded we'd do it, if it was really easy, you know. If it was like a lift, yeah, would be up for that. I have no desire to go into space. I've heard, I mean, I think just to describe, you described the return to Earth in the Soyuz,

smiling as dynamic. Just describe what that was like, because it sounds like the most terrifying things anyone would ever want to go through. Well, there's room for improvement. I mean, yeah, you have to slow down from Mac 25, so you're going to have to put the, brakes on and that requires a little bit of deceleration about 6G for a few minutes and it gets a bit

warm outside so you might have a little bit of a sweat on and then the parachutes open and then it's a very violent experience for about 20 seconds till the main canopy's open so but that's the technology we're using at the moment you know I think returning through earth's atmosphere as we progress and our technology becomes better can become a much smoother transition a much gentler transition which a much greater number of people would actually enjoy. So I've got one of my other soft, skeptic questions. I'd love to see people on Mars emotionally. I'd really love to see them.

And I certainly want to see them back on the moon. But Mars, I always worry about the pantry protection thing. You know, I sit there thinking, God, what if there is life there? And our record of going there is not particularly, going to place, it's not particularly good on this. And I was looking at different versions of events. There's one book, A City on Mars,

which I recommend, which is saying, have we thought this through? And it's really well written by, I try to remember their full names, Mr and Mrs. Vinesmith, and the other one then, obviously, you've got people like the Mars Society and so on, are far too full-on, you know, manifest destiny and high frontier and so on.

And I wonder where you stand on that, because I see it's a pretty tough problem, right? You know, if there is something eking out an existence on Mars, then we can't sterilize humans to prevent us contaminating that. So, you know, people worry about, I don't know, Andromeda strain stuff and bringing something back to Mars, but I think the risk is should be the other way around,

you know, that we, there is that terrible thing that we might just wipe out the, evidence of life elsewhere, if we're not careful. That's why it's so important that we have these rovers that are on Mars at the moment. I mean, there's a risk even there, you know, because they are coming from Earth. We do it in as cleaner way as possible and clean rooms and so on, but it is possible that they bring something from Earth. But obviously, when you have humans, then that risk becomes greater.

So it's hugely important that we're doing everything we can to study that environment before we actually send humans there. Yeah. I guess the question is, is it, yeah, the guy, actually the guy who is the safety engineer at ESA Tech, who is helping do the safety certification for my prosthetic hardware, should it fly. He's also, one of the other hats he wears is implantary protection. They are thinking about it. It's very, very extensive and it's very, very rigorous, incredibly granular what they're doing, which it gives you reassurance, but that they, the process is happening and the ambition. is there but it's the question of whether is your conscience clear enough if your intentions are good

I guess that's the difficult question to answer There's an Antarctic example here too actually I don't know if you've heard about Lake Vostok it's about 4,000 metres of ice and so it's basically this prehistoric lake under the ice

and so there was a mission to try and drill into that lake but it has been, you know, it's been pre-historicly preserved as it is. And so how do you get in there without disturbing what we know will have life? It absolutely will have life down there. So what does bringing our probe and drilling down into that mean? And so there's another precedent to kind of look into for future exploration of planets as well. Yeah.

And I think, as John McGahn says, it's both all of that and doing it response. be finding out as much as possible about the environment you're going into, and going into a new environment with as much knowledge and responsibility. But I also think that we shouldn't limit our human ambition based on a worry of potential contamination of an environment. Yes, we should be cautious, yes, we should protect as much as possible. But I also kind of a bit more of a kind of philosophical level. I think that we're the greatest thing as far as we know it right now that the universe has created.

And sometimes, John said we are stupid, yes, we are, we're horrible blobs of flesh and blood and we don't travel well and we've made plenty of mistakes. But the universe spent 13.8 billion years getting to us. And we are obviously searching for life elsewhere, conscious, complex life, which I'm convinced does exist elsewhere in the universe. I think we have a responsibility as a pretty special creation of the universe to actually look after ourselves, look after the planet we've been on, but also to find out more about our surroundings and to explore and to learn.

And I think we shouldn't lose sight of that fact that we actually have a responsibility, I think, to try and keep ourselves as a species going as long as possible. Thank you all so much for joining us today. I think we've got time for a couple of questions. But make them good. No pressure. Two questions.

We can't see you very well because we're a bit blinded by the light. So I can see, I've got a favour of the front rows, aren't we? Yeah. Who's got the mic? Who's got the microphone? She's coming down the middle. I've never known anyone's threatened their audience. Yeah, yeah.

Production. It's what my role. It's my role. Thank you. very interesting all of you thank you very much indeed Tim kept talking about four astronauts Tim please are you referring to yourself and Helen or are there some others that I'm not aware of please

for Issa selected astronauts I was referring to myself John McGahn and Rose who have all been recently as in within the last of 10 15 years selected by Issa Rose is currently doing another event so she couldn't be on stage with us right now yes yeah yeah we were with the four in the studio this morning. So you're one of them. Absolutely.

I may have kind of... It's not a conspiracy. He's really been in space. I thought he might have retired. No, I think, I mean, there is so much going on at the moment. And I think McGahn alluded to this as well, in the commercial sector,

the opportunities that are there, private astronaut missions. I'm currently helping Axiom Space who are a really exciting company with the next space station and spacesuit design. And they've signed an MOU Memorandum of Understanding with the UK Space Agency to try and put together an all-UK mission. So there are definitely lots of opportunities and potential future missions out there. And MOU is something of understanding.

A memorandum of understanding, yes. Thank you very much. And there's a question just... Yeah. Hello. I'm Ellie and I'm a major Tim Dots facing ambassador and this is Florence. And I wanted to ask, what advice would you give to young people who might want to have a career in the exploration of space?

Great, what a great. I think that's going to be our end question, and what a brilliant question. I think the key thing is to find something that you're really passionate about, that you love doing. That could be space, that could be astronomy, it could be aerospace engineering, but it could be something completely different as well.

When I started out, I wasn't doing anything to do with space, really. I kind of moved towards it. But look out for other opportunities along the way. I never thought that I was going to get to spend a year in Antarctica. But this opportunity kind of buzzed in my ear, and then I just had to be brave enough to take it. So, you know, follow what you love. Be aware that there might be other things that come up along the way,

and just follow those passions. There is no roadmap for life, and I'm a bit of an example of that. I have been a car park attendant, a barman, a fitness instructor. I've worked in restaurants. I've been a doctor. I've been a canoe kayak, a mountain bike guide, and I now got this job. So I would really say there is an awful lot out there in the world to explore. and enjoy. Follow your heart. Definitely second what McGahn said. Do something you are passionate about

because that makes it super easy to get out of bed in the morning and go and do it. Because if you're passionate about it, you're intrinsically motivated. And it's not really work. It's your passion. A lot of people speak to me about, you know, the route to becoming an astronaut, how do you become an astronaut, and what should I study, what should I do? And there is no single answer. It is a case of being passions about what you do and finding out that one thing that you can excel at, that you're prepared to work hard at.

And that's what you're going to be good at. Amazing. Thank you all for joining us today. And thank you as well for being here to our lovely audience. So let's just thank McGahn, John, and Tim and our soft skeptic here, Robert. Thank you all here at the UK Space Conference for coming along.

Until next time, happy stargazing. Excellent. Ooh, that was fun, wasn't it? That was great. I heard things from astronauts that I've never heard before. I was just like, where do I get a jumpsuit? Where do I get an Easter jump? I mean, it's probably, I'm probably not allowed to walk around a space conference in an

Eastern astronaut jumpsuit for, you know, whatever, being in disguise or something lying to the public. But they are very, very cool and a very nice bunch. They were great. What I liked was they all had something different to say because they all have a different perspective. And I think McGahn in particular, with her Antarctic experience, really brought something to the whole sort of conversation. And it's such an interesting place to go to in that sort of preparation for understanding, you know, really extreme environments as well. And actually, you know, we understand astronauts have to dig deep at times, you know, for whatever they're doing in space. So, I mean, of course you'd have to do that in the Antarctic as well. I think, I mean, we're almost

done for our time at the UK Space Conference, but there is one more thing that we have to do because it wouldn't be the supermassive podcast without it. Robert, what can we see in the night's sky this one. Can I just set the scene for us here? So we're in the corner of, I mean, it's a vast room. This used to be a railway station. So it's actually got the railway clock right ahead of us and you can see through the windows sort of Manchester skyline. And we're kind of cowering in the corner and Robert's here with his, with his laptop, with his facts. You've got to get these things right. Yeah, we're looking at a grey Manchester sky, but I'm sure it all clear. No, so seriously, thinking about the month of August, the summer

sky is a great, you know, always looks good. And I think that time of year as well, you know, we're just creeping past the time when the nights are very short. It's getting a bit easier, still very warm. And of course, I always think as well this time of year, maybe this is just being apparent to think about school holidays and when you have to travel. But if you're going south or, you know, to another part of the world, take a pair of binoculars with you because it's such a great thing to do, you know, look up at the night sky. You can look at the southern Milky Way, look down towards Sagittarius and Scorpius, and you're actually looking towards the center of our galaxy. So, you know, fantastic sight. You know, looking at star clusters, nebula,

all those things are just so much more obvious. So I always think, you know, have a drink in the evening and go out and look at it. So, though, a few specific things the month. There's quite a lot of a sort of planetary action this month. A lot of it's in the morning sky, though, so it does mean you've got to stay up late or get up early. But for example, 12th of August, Venus and Jupiter are really close together. And as they're the two brightest planets, they're going to be really stand out in the sky. So it's a really excellent thing to see. Venus, This is also around its highest at that time over this year, so then it will start to sink down a bit. If you haven't seen Mercury, around the second half of the month, there's a good time to see that again in the morning sky.

So look towards the eastern. It probably helps if you have an app or a map to find it, because it's bright, but it's not to stand out bright like Venus. And there's also, on the 20th to 21st of August, Mercury will be in a really great line with a crescent moon above it, the thin crescent moon, and then Venus and Jupiter above those. So that's got to be in a supermassive stargazing photo op, right. We need that to go into the club and to be tagging us on Instagram. And then the final thing I'll mention, it'll be really odd if I didn't mention the Percy of Meteor Shower,

shooting stars, debris from comets, swift tattle, slamming into the Earth's atmosphere and burning up. In a dark sky, you could see maybe as many as 60 meteors an hour, but this year you've got a quite bright waning gibbous moon in the sky, so that'll make it a bit harder. so my advice is probably not to worry too much about staying up to the small hours but if you look at it in the early evening you won't see anything like as many meteors but the ones you might see might be these earth grazers

and that is when a piece of debris skims through the upper atmosphere and it means the trail is longer and it's brighter and more dramatic so you know a great thing to do again maybe with that drink in your mediterranean or doesn't have to be the medit you know nice holiday destination just enjoy it and this is normally the part where becky would say and also you have sun loungers well reuse those as star loungers just you know just go out by the pool or wherever you might be on your holiday or just go out to the park which will probably be my option and yeah yeah and use those and i think that's it for this month and we'll be back next time with another live

episode god you can't stop us we'll be live from the national astronomy meeting which was recorded in durham and then after that we're just going to be hiding forever and not looking at the public ever again Unless we get Easter jumpsuits. Oh yeah, we'll be seen in an Easter jumpsuit. That's a price worth putting your pink, isn't it? Remember, you can send us questions to podcast at rass.ac.uk. You can find us on Instagram at supermassive pod or you can join the Supermassive Club.

There's a link in our episode description on how to join. Until next time, everyone, happy stargazing.