The Telepathy Tapes - S2E32: "Nice Mind Reading!"

Episode Date: June 3, 2026

For years, Betsy Flores searched for ways to better understand her daughter, Cianna. Along the way, she encountered moments that seemed impossible to explain - thoughts shared without words, uncanny knowing, and experiences that hinted at a deeper connection.Joined by autism advocate Manisha Lad, Betsy reflects on the beginning of her daughter’s spelling journey and the hope it has brought to their family. Together they discuss telepathy, communication, presumed competence, and the patience required to help non-speaking individuals express their thoughts.This is a conversation about trusting your child, letting go of expectations, and finding light when the path forward feels uncertain.________________Join The Telepathy Tapes Backstage Pass to get ad-free episodes, never-before-heard interviews, behind-the-scenes documentary footage, and access to our private Discord community. This is your invitation to come closer. To help shape what’s next. To be more than a listener… to be a co-creator of this paradigm shift. So if you’ve felt moved, if you’ve felt seen, if you’ve felt the call—subscribe today and join us: https://thetelepathytapes.com/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Talk Tracks. Today, we have two very special guests, Manisha Lad, who you might remember from season one, where you met her son Akeel. And now she has started a center, the Keel Autism Foundation Sensory Pathway Center. And in her journey, she met Betsy, who has an 11-year-old daughter, Sienna, and is just starting her spelling journey. And in the beginning of the spelling journey, also discovered that she was telepathic, kind of confirming some of your prior. experiences. And I think it's going to be a really beautiful true conversation about fear and perseverance and love beyond anything else. So thank you both for joining us. Hi, everyone. I'm Kai Dickens and welcome to the Talk Tracks, brought you weekly from TTT Media. In this series, we explore the threads that weave together our understanding of reality, science, spirituality, consciousness, and yes, even unexplained phenomena like sci abilities. We examine the mysteries that sit just beyond the edge of what science can currently explain, alongside researchers, thinkers, families, and experiencers.

If you haven't yet listened to the telepathy tapes, I encourage you to start there. It lays the foundation for everything that we'll be exploring, because every era has ideas once dismissed as impossible, until someone was willing to investigate them seriously. And on this show, we do just that. If you want to see our incredible guests in person, we have a video version of this episode on the telepathy tapes YouTube page. So why don't we first start by just having you each introduce yourselves and who your children are? Sure. So my name is Manisha Ladd. And our only son, Achille Lad, is now 25 years old.

He has transformed me since his diagnosis of all. then we were not given much of a hope. So to 11 years, he was completely non-verbal, non-expressive. He broke his silence through a very controversial method. And during that time, we were introduced about the mind and body disconnect and reflexes. My name is Betsy Flores. I'm from New Jersey also. I have a daughter named Sianna, who's 11 years old.

We started the spelling thing when she was about maybe eight or nine. And she's still not open with me. She's kind of very early on in her journey because I haven't been able to take her for consistent lessons, but now I'm trying to learn. So hopefully, she'll be open with me soon. And then I want to talk about how you met. But first, you know, for people who might remember you from season one, Manisha was the first family I met in America that was both spelling really proficiently. Akeel can spell on an iPad. No one needs to touch or hold.

anything, he can just go. And you open a center to help other individuals who have non-speaking or prexic children, which I understand is how you met. And at the center, you work on like reflexes and the rapid prompting method of spelling to communicate. Yes. And other physical therapies and such. Adaptive fitness. We have a lot of digital innovation tools where parents can interact with metronome, where we know how to work on the hemispheres and more on the subconscious mind. And we also have a small hydroponic unit where the kids learn to do the gardening with the hydroponic. What's the center called? Achille Autism Foundation, the Sensory Pathway Center.

The Sensory Pathway. Yeah, and our program name is called a Neurosensory Foundation Program. But before starting a center, when Akito was seven years old, we started a foundation, a key autism foundation. And our whole goal was to help families back in India. So we trained a doctor in India. We raised some funds. We trained a doctor in India.

And that's how we got the family. started on the first biomedical treatment. And when the age of 11, when Akil broke his silence through iPad, and that time, Akil made a very powerful statement by typing that I cannot see my body in my mind. And then we found that Akil understood everything inside. And he was literally talking from inside to us. He had no idea that he had a body. What he understood that, oh, have hands and fingers and they move.

He had a perception that I see visually, I hear, and I learn. It's in mind. Other person has to also open his mind. That was his operating system. So he one day told me, type with me and said, I can't help it. I have to read people's mind. So he told you he can't help it. He has to read minds.

Why did he say that? Because that was his operating system. That was the way he thought that's because it was happening naturally for him. Yeah. It's not a he doesn't have to make an attempt. And that's why he would say that I am very fearless of using my resources. And what does he mean by his resources? Like being very intuitive.

Intuitive? Yes, intuitive and telepathy. You can see he's on the similar lines. Yeah. So while he would type with me before he would like I would give him a whole, as if his thoughts were coming into my mind. So his thoughts were coming into my mind. So his thoughts would enter your mind too. Yes.

His thoughts would come into my mind. That was sure. How could you tell they weren't your thoughts? Because he would tell me your answer and my answer is same, but this is my answer. It's so interesting. Yes. And some of the thoughts when he would say, like, I cannot see my body in my mind. Or if I ask him a basic question of we were studying about living things, what is living thing?

What is living thing? What is a non-living thing? We teach and you ask questions. Like, why cell is living? And his answer was, because. Because the energy in the cell is living, the cell is living. I wouldn't give such answers. So his answers were very, very, very, very intellect.

Very intellectual and very smart and something. And you knew it wasn't your... Absolutely. I would never say, I cannot see my body in my mind. Why would I even that bake up? Yeah. So he typed that or you saw those thoughts in your head. No, it goes with very flow.

Once you give your mind, it's like a blackboard. I'm going to use your mind. and your body is going to be a vehicle for me. So you and me are very intuned. So it's almost like a keel, you said, like, it was like a fresh blackboard in your head. And he almost like used the interface of your body. Yes, and my mind too. I just want you to share the bus story because I love that story.

And I don't think I put, it's definitely not in the film. And I'm not even sure if it was in season one, but it impacted me when you first told me the story about how when he was little, he would get mad at the bus. Yes. So tell that story. So he would go on the bus and the driver is telling him hi. Good morning, Achille, and Achille not greeting. And he would ask him again, Akala, good morning, Achille, and he would not answer. And he would get upset.

And then he would say, why I have to, why they keep on asking me the same question? When I already said, hi. I said, how did you say hi? I said, I answered in my mind. And one day he had a major mail down in the bus And I asked him, like, he'll, what happened? And he said that teach people how to read my mind. Yeah, because he was talking to the kids too, right?

Tell him to keep it down, I remember you saying. And they wouldn't listen to him. And he said, because I'm talking to them and they're not listening. Yeah, we would say, he would come and like, why you're not listening. I said, how did you say? Because I'm telling him my mind and you're not listening from my mind. So he was under that big perception. And he would say, my mind is very good.

I have to tell my mind what to do. And when he had a meltdown, then he started telling that I should not go into the other mind. Because he says, I want to do it, but my other mind is not letting me do. As if there are two minds inside. So interesting. And now he doesn't talk over the mind at all

because he has a lot of control over his body. So the more the control came, the less he had to rely on. Yes. And that's where the more you work on the children's body, they get the control. And that's exactly all the modalities, which we did with Akil. It's what we do at the center.

Great. Okay, so Betsy, you obviously met Manisha through the center, but tell us a little bit about your story when you decided to bring your daughter to the center and why. So we had been doing RPM well. I mean, she has a great practitioner, but she's an hour away, and she was only available every other Sunday.

So it was twice a month. which I felt like we needed more, but there was nothing in my area, like in central New Jersey, where I could go. And so I learned that Manisha was doing RPM. And my daughter, she gave me some clues that she could read my mind. But it wasn't always consistent. There were just some little episodes that I'm like, hmm. What's an example? When she was a baby and I would do to fix her hair and I would be standing behind her.

And then the minute I would put the ponytail thing in my mouth to like, she would, turn around and tell me to take it out of my mouth. And I'm like, how does she, how does she see me? I'm standing behind her. And I would try different ways. I'm like, maybe I'm making a noise. And she would do it every single time. The minute I put her on, she would turn around and tell me to take it out. Another example is I remember waking up one day and just, I wanted to make myself eggs, which is rare for me. I don't really cook myself eggs. And my daughter's don't like eggs. But I come out and I'm going to make myself eggs today. So I'm thinking all this in my head and I go downstairs. I take the pan out and she says, I don't want any eggs.

And I'm like, how did you know it was going to be gay? It was just things like that. Another time, she was taking a bath and she was playing with this bucket. And I was thinking to myself, I can't believe that's the same bucket that they gave me at the hospital when she was born. And she put the bucket over her face. And I said, that's not a mask. And she said that's for the hospital. Now, if you know kids with autism, they, you know, at least my daughter's not completely nonverbal.

She has a language, but it's mostly all scripts and the same thing, you know, saying the same things around again. So for her to say hospital was unusual. And it just was at the exact time that I was thinking about it in my mind. So she gave me those snippets. And I remember telling somebody, I think she's reading my mind. And then when I took my daughter to Manisha the first time, I wasn't expecting anything. I just wanted to dispelling. But Manitia immediately connected with her immediately.

And so I don't know why. One of the questions I have is just like, why doesn't she connect with me that way? Like I know that she's not reading my mind all the time. And I wonder if it's because she hasn't developed it that much yet, or maybe it's because she's turning it off. And then, but when she connected with Minnesha that quickly, I said, well, then maybe it's me. Maybe I'm somehow don't have the, I'm not open.

Mnishita says just be open. I'm like, how do I do that? I don't know how to do it. We have talked about this so many times in the show that so often, I think for children, it's easier to connect with a teacher or a coach or a counselor than a person. parent. And I give this example, you know, which I think is true, right? I think for parents, we have so much emotional stock and pressure that we put on our own kid. Like, I'll be watching my six-year-old in a basketball game. It doesn't bother me if any other kid is running the wrong way or not

running fast enough or not doing this. But the second, my son stops. And I'm like, what is he doing? Why is he? You know, and like, this end of the world that he's not doing it. But for every other kid out there, it's like, whatever, that's so cute. And I think we parents do that, right? We put so much on our children. Yeah. But it's not just a spell. Even the telepathy, like, I've tried to test her since all this happened. I've tried to test her to see if she's reading my mind. And she's not, most of the time. I feel like she's not.

You know, I don't know. It just might, I just don't think so. So I wonder, like, what is it about Manisha? Tell me what happened when the first time you all met. So you brought in Siana. Yeah. And to learn to spell or to get. Because she can, so she's minimally verbal.

It's just mostly scripting. She's not conversational. She has functional language. She can say, I need this. or any dad, but she's not conversational. It's mostly scripting, things, you know, lines from shows that she repeats over and over again. So for someone like that who's minimally verbal or unreliably verbal,

spelling can really help still, like spelling to communicate. Oh, yeah. She can't say complex thoughts at all. Okay. No. I mean, if I asked her, what did you do in school today, she can't tell me. Okay. So you were going to help with spelling.

And then tell me what happened next, because obviously some sort of chilepathy happened. Yeah, see, whenever anybody walks into over centaur, it's very pure RPM-based. We never say telepathic or anything or anything. We know that if a child is spelling, we know when they are reading our mind and when they are not reading our mind. How can you tell? Okay, so if I read something and the answer I have in my mind,

the child starts answering that, then we completely know. Or sometimes they give thoughts that I connect from this code to that. some of the thoughts which they type, which is not in our mind. So it happens very naturally. So like your example of the bike is a perfect example. Which example? It's like you're riding the bike and then you hold and then you leave.

And so they're getting the whole control. So it's like you hold the hand and then you start fading your hand and you are just standing in the back. It's like an energy. Everything is energy. So somebody had explained me for a killed perspective that when a kid, He walks into an environment outside the house. He tries to match his energy with the other person's energy.

And if that is not matching, he shuts down. So if you are open, he will be open. So with Sianna, when she came in, I had no intention. I'm doing any telepathy or anything or anything. But I was reading her a story and she was answering. And in the between, she was talking something, not right now. You know, not right now. Okay.

So, you know, I could say. see, it's a part of a hill. I could, I could, I could, I could sense it. I think most of us assume we're hydrated because we're drinking water all day. But water alone doesn't always cut it. Your body needs minerals to actually absorb and use that water. And that's why I've been using RELight. RELight is made by Redmond, the salt company behind Redmond Real Salt.

They've been in the salt business since 1958. And their salt comes from an ancient seabed in Utah that traces all the way back to the Jurassic era, which is just wild. So when they made an electro-like drink, they started with something unique, unrefined, real salt with 60 plus trace minerals. I love how clean it is. Zero sugar, no artificial sweeteners, no artificial colors, no artificial flavors, and no chemical preservatives. For me, RELight has become something I reach for every day, whether I'm recording or traveling or working out, spending time outside, or just trying to get through a really full day without that afternoon crash. And it actually tastes really good. It's not.

not overly sweet or aggressively salty. It has this balanced salty sweet flavor that makes it just easy to drink. Ready to give ReLight a try, go to Redmond.com. Life slash telepathy and use code tapes to get 15% off your first order. That's Redmond.combe slash telepathy with code tapes for 15% off your first order. Hey, all, so I don't know about you, but for me, having a glass of wine at night as I get older is getting just a little bit harder. It's harder to fall asleep. It's harder to bounce back the next day, but it's still fun to have a little something every once in a while to either loosen up or just kind of slow down at the end of the day. And that's why I have been using and loving the batch micromance. They dissolve in your mouth and they're designed for calm,

mood support, not checking out or not escaping. They just help you kick back and relax and even get back to baseline if you need that. And I love the batch was founded by chemical engineers and they're fully transparent about every ingredient, which really matters. They're microdosed, so you're in charge of the experience. And they're even. easy to bring anywhere, a purse, a jacket pocket, and I love the CBD nighttime gummies, because the goal isn't just falling asleep. It's waking up feeling rested without that foggy, groggy feeling the next morning. Right now, Batch is offering 30% off sitewide, and yes, that applies to subscriptions too, so you can lock in that discount on your monthly supply.

Go to hellobatch.com slash tapes and use code tapes at checkout. I love online shopping, but somehow it always turns into this whole ordeal where you find what you need, you get all the to the checkout and then suddenly you're trying to remember a password you created in 2019 or you're digging through your bag looking for a credit card so you can find that three-digit code and honestly the greatest feeling is when that purple shop pay button pops up and you realize you can check out in literally one tap no typing in card numbers no resetting passwords no starting over it just makes everything so much easier and that's all powered by shopify which is actually behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the

U.S. from household names like skims and Heinz to smaller brands who are just launching. So if you or your company is selling something online, get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready-to-use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style. Best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world-class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. See less carts go abandoned and more sales go. With Shopify and their shop pay button, sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash tapes.

Go to shopify.com slash tapes. That's shopify.com slash tapes. Okay, explain this a little bit more. So the first time you met Sianna, she sits down next to you. Yes. She's reading a story or you're reading? I was reading a story. And you were going to ask her like yes and no answers?

No, basic, proper question. Okay, and then suddenly she makes a statement out of the blue nice mind reading. She writes to you out of the blue, nice mind reading. So, okay, so you start working with Siana. So what happens next? Like, did you bring this up to Betsy or did you start to say yes? Yeah, I write her in a session finished. I told Betsy she's completely telepathy.

Tell me about the test y'all did. So there's a table. There was a table. Siana's sitting across from me. Manisha was sitting next to her. And when she gave me a book, I would pick any word. I tried to pick words that I didn't even know what they meant. And she would look at it.

She would go over, hold of the, and Siana would just start typing the word. Just like that. And she just starts out. And we did it like four times. Four times. And she did it every time. That's very helpful. And I know if she keeps on coming to me, then I'll try different techniques.

I'll try different boards where I will start fading myself. I'll have different boards where I'll keep the board down. And then I'm not. I have air prompts and I will fade those air prompts. wherever we feel there is a need of more prompting, we tell the parents there's a need to work on the body. Yeah. The more you work on the body, then the prompts, the fades. Fade away.

Do you think, though, like for you being, because a lot of the coaches and teachers I know who work with so many non-speakers, not only is it easier to be like a spelling coach and work with a lot of people, but the telepathy seems to be easier as well. But do you think that's because your mind gets trained like that? It just knows how to open much quicker. I always say I've been, I've always been really bad at like meditation and things like that. And I wonder if that's what it is. I won't. No, you don't think that's it?

I don't know. I think it's meditation. And because I've gone through the spiritual journey for Achille, because I was looking for these answers at the age of 10 or 11 when Achille was typing. And Achille started telling a lot of his inner thoughts. Now, what can you do? I had, he would say there are many different forms of minds. And I had no answer where to look for.

So Akeel said you, there's many different forms of minds. Yes. And he started interacting, you know, with all the ancestors and giving messages, you know, so he had a lot of perceptions. But even how Manisha talks about opening her mind and closing her mind, it's something that I can't grasp. So I, that's why I feel like I might be blocking her somehow or she's blocking me. I don't know. What do you think that is? I mean, because it's painful for you. I can see that it feels painful.

Or I'm confused by it. To be honest, I mean, to be honest, I think I would be a little bit relieved that she's not always reading my mind because I'll be honest, it's not always good. You know, like, you know, autism can take you to some dark places and I've been really depressed. And if she was reading my mind in those moments, I'd be devastated because it's not good. You know, it's not good things. But it's just, I'm just curious more than anything. I want her to spell with me more than anything.

Yeah. More even more than the telepathy. But it just makes me curious. Like, why is it? She has clearly read my mind sometimes, but other times I'm sure she doesn't. Like, I have to study with her for school, you know. So there's, I'm saying the word and I, you know, I say a definition. She's got to give me the word.

And she's, the word is in my head 10,000 times and she doesn't say it. So I'm like, she's, I don't think she. Yeah. The fear you have, if you let that fear go. Okay. Maybe I do have a fear. Okay. Let that fear.

Let that fear go. The good thing is that it forces me to clean up my act. Like, the minute I start going down a dark place of, like, depression or whatever it is, I stop myself because I'm like, well, what if she can, what if she's reading my mind now? That's a time. You know, I don't ever want her to think that she's not enough or that she's making me unhappy in some way. And so it forces me to like, which is a great thing. So that she is changing me for the better, I think, in that sense. That's exactly the transformation.

Even your energy changes, when your breathing changes, when you're breathing changes, when you're, you, when you are in that with your space of integrity with yourself. Well, and also. The fear goes away. But it could it just be different minds too? Like, it might not be anything you're doing. You know what I mean? I don't want you to put that pressure on yourself.

It could just be, I mean, I don't know how it works. I feel like you are the resident expert in the room, Manisha. And she's not the only student who has come and told me that. Achila has told it's very easy to read my mind. the other girl had come in the second session. The first statement she does, completely open, you know, very aggressive, 22-year-old. First session, I did it with her and I started to have mind-to-mind connection and

mom was trying to hold her. I said, no, don't touch her. Let her give her answers. Let it be wrong. That's fine. And in my mind, I'm telling her, it's okay. That's fine. You know, it's okay.

I'm going to accept this answer. So I'm talking in my mind. It's somewhere it starts there. And if it is starting there for me, let it say. start because it's a relationship. And then we start slowly, slowly diving into it. Why this? I'll give you another example.

One of the students was constantly, you know, throwing things on the floor. You give him something in his hand, throw, pencil, throw, this throw, throw, throw. So we asked him, why are you throwing things? And he typed, because I want to hear the sound. Since then, till now, not even once he has through. So once you enter into that mind, once they find a trust that you are okay to give me your mind, I'm okay to tell you. It's like going to a friend, okay, or going for a therapy, and you open up to them and you tell them everything. It's the trust.

Why you open up to certain people and how you don't open up to certain people. You know, as you're growing up, you have your friend, you have a best friend and you tell the best friend everything, but you won't not tell that to your mom or you not tell that to your dad or you're not tell to your brother. You know? It's like that. And I mean, I also think, I mean, this is like, in a way, telepathy might be like a muscle memory for your brain to just let go and get into. And I would imagine, like, people often use the metaphor of like ballroom dancing, right? Like, you're a really good ballroom dancing partner because you've, in terms of typing, even telepathy, because you've done it with so many people. Got it. Done it.

So you know how to get into that ballroom thing. So any child walking in is like, I can ballroom dance with you. Yes. Where it might be harder for a parent or sibling who's like brand new, I would think, to just figure out how to connect. in their brain. I mean, I don't know. So it's like you keep on doing, keep on doing, and you reach that path, but you need to keep on doing.

I never, ever sat with Achille saying, today Achille is going to read my mind. Okay. He would tell me, oh, you're my mind-answer and my mind-nanswer. You're saying, but this is my mind-answer. I have a question about gatekeeping now and telepathy. Like, is it still pretty pronounced of like, do not talk about telepathy within spelling, or do you think it's getting a little better? I think there's like there's like two camps of nonbelievers.

One is religious, because even me, I was raised, I was raised Catholic and it was like, that's like demonic. You know, you just don't. And I think telepathy or telepathy. It's just, it's like anything like that in the spiritual world, all of that stuff is like of the occult. And it's just, you just don't go there. And then there's just others that are just, they don't believe anything unless it happens to them. There's just that camp, you know, they just. sticking it, you know, they don't think. Yeah, that's it. I had told a friend of mine who I've been

trying to get her to take her son, who has autism, to do spelling. I've been trying to tell her and tell her. And I just can see that he's really smart and he would do so well with spelling. I just have a feeling, you know, and I've been trying to encourage her. I've sent her videos and she just hasn't done anything. And then finally, I told her what happened with Manisha. And then, and I even showed her the video of, and that's when she introduced it to her husband, I think was the biggest mistake because if you're being introduced to, you know, the spelling at the, as the first time with telepathy then, and if they're completely closed off to telepathy, they're going to be closed off to spelling because they're going to think it's together.

Are you married? Yes. And how does your spouse respond to the telepathy? He's actually surprisingly open and believes it. When I gave him, when I would tell him the examples of like things that happened, I mean, he was just like, oh, that is weird. And then I showed him the minutia thing, and he was like, well, no doubt now. So.

It is because the definition of the telepathy, which they see, and they have been told. Yeah. They want to hear from the clinicians. It's very commonly seen mostly. I don't know why it's the, it's a dad's thing or what. Yes. They want to hear from a professional rather than from a mom because they think it's like a mom. And that's where I feel you need to.

redefine the word telepathy. And if you bring the telepathy and neuroscience into picture and how the brain works, that's true. That's true. Well, and a lot of, I've noticed now, especially in the scientific community, they'll call it non-local consciousness. Yes. Non-local communication. You just have to word it differently. Yeah. Absolutely.

That's where the day one I've been telling, I don't like the word telepathy because it looks like telepathy. We redefine the word telepathy. Yeah. It's not easy, Kai, that I can sit here and I can put a thought in you. your mind. Okay? And you are going to do that. You're going to say that.

It's not, it's not that simple. Telepathy happens at that time. It's like you and me have learned the script and learn the strategy and learn, you know how I think, you know how I think, you know what's going to be my next move. I know what's going to be my next move. I know with your just basic, basic expression, just you doing this, what this mean to me. It's staying with each other for long and having that. oneness relationship. How common though, now that you've a center and you're seeing all sorts

of parents and kids come in, like how many of the individuals that you're working with do you think have this ability around non-local communication or telepathy? Almost everybody. Almost everybody? Wow. Yep. So let's say for the majority of the non-speakers that you see, there's telepathy. Yes. If you bring it up to the parents, are they responsive or do they get upset or do you not even bring it up? I don't bring it out till the families are understanding what is this. But now I do tell them very confidently. They always have constant thoughts going on in their mind. They always tell that they know when who is believing me, who is not believing me.

They all know. They understand the world. They understand both the worlds. But it is hard and frustrating for them to. It's not the body is not in their control. Summer always makes me rethink about what I'm reaching. for because I want lighter fabrics, pieces I feel good the moment you put them on that aren't going to wrinkle like crazy. And that's why I just love Quince. They focus on high quality

essentials like breathable linen and soft organic cotton and washable silk, but it doesn't have that luxury markup. It's really that rare balance that I think everyone looks for where everything feels elevated but still easy and it's all affordable. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants and dresses and tops. And their denim is soft and easy to to wear and their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights, which is a real thing in California. And the styles start at $32. And the big thing to me is that Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middleman. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. I love their Italian leather triple compartment weekender bag. It is beautiful and has zippers and it

looks so luxurious when just going away for the weekend. It's so good. And lately I've been rocking the 100% European linen pants and the matching 100% European linen tank. And it's and it's just an awesome classic summer uniform. You can add a jacket or sweater to. It's light and it's breathable, and I can wear it to work or to dinner. So elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash tapes

for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash tapes for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash tapes. It's not in control. All it would be very easy. for somebody now just hold the blatterboard and now fade it and let the let the letterboard

be on a left hand and let the child spell and now start fading yourself. Fading those prompts, fading those techniques, that is also a skill. It just feels like it takes practice. I mean, that's what it sounds like. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think it's an important thing too. I mean, for parents or teachers or coaches, like how can you assure that if you're wanting to teach an individual who's typing to communicate that their thoughts are their own, that their answers are their own. Like, what's the advice you'd give? We see the difference in the answers.

So you can tell when it's your... Absolutely. No doubt about you. So what are some, I mean, talking about Siana now, like, let's dive into that a little bit. So you've been working with Siana, Betsy's daughter, for how long? Yeah, I think I did only three sessions. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And how is that going for you? Do you feel hopeful that she's going to become open? And what are you? Yeah, I feel better. I'm more hopeful now. I've been practicing with her more at home.

I'm taking the Speller's course, not the Speller's parent course. And it's been helpful. It's because you kind of want, I think a big mistake that parents made and I think I made it. You see them open with someone else and you just want to ask them open and the questions right away. It just doesn't work that way. You have to kind of start at the bottom. It takes time. And so she's doing better.

Now she's before, because I'm her mother. I know her little loops, she's like she would have the impulse to do the loops with me. Like, you know, say this and I say this. Say this and I say this. And we can get caught in this, saying these loops all day. But she's kind of slowed down with that now. She's answering the questions. There's simple questions at this point.

It's just spell this word. It's simple. But there's progress. So I'm hopeful. I just have to be more consistent in practicing. That's exactly it is. You keep on doing, keep on doing it. And then have a courage to go into that space of asking open-end.

questions why and let it flow yeah I let no expectation because I think in the beginning I would have the expectation she wouldn't answer I would get frustrated and it would be done and it was and it was my fault because I would want it so bad that I would become frustrated and I know she's feeding on my energy and she would shut down or you know refuse to to continue so exactly so I'm getting better just not even expecting that at this point just kind of starting slow and building up it will it will happen don't don't give up and don't be so hard on your And the time will come. Well, it will.

And the thing is, I think about some of the non-speakers we featured on this show who got open at 20, at 26, 18. Like, you were starting so young and was really kind of exciting to think about is what I've heard from those older parents is, oh, my goodness, had I only started when they were nine or 10? What would their life look like now? You know what I mean? So you're always doing that. I'm already thinking about that with high school. I want to put her in high school where there's smelling. Yeah.

I don't want her to go to high school. So for someone in your position, learning, you know, learning the flow with your daughter, your child and starting the process, Manisha, how many minutes a day do you think someone should practice with their child? Yeah. Depends what, at least 15 minutes to start with every day, but then go up to an hour. And then what the individual wants to do. If the individual is a child who wants to learn a lot of new things and is thriving,

then you can go for hours and hours. You know, one thing that I feel like has come up a lot, and it might be good for both of you to talk about, I think, because you're in different perspectives of it, is so many parents are given very little hope and therefore do not presume competence, especially because there's such a behavior bent to our society, right? You watch behavior. But from the non-speakers that I've interfaced, like, talk to, so often what they'll say is like the baseline for communication is being presumed that you're competent, right? It's everything. I know you're smart. I know you're in there. I know you can do this. I don't. no doubt. And I think for even parents, you don't presume competence for a very long time. Even when you think you are. Even when you think you are, you think I'm presuming competence. But then you start to have these little doubts and you can't. You just can't. Well, a lot of parents who even come in here to talk will say, I'll see other kids learn to spell and learn to communicate and get open. I think, oh, well, that's that kid. My kid can. Yes. Yeah. And I loved the Spellers movie. It's wonderful. But the only thing I wish they would have said more was about because they showed.

how hard it is. The process, because they showed a lot of kids spelling after being open after like the second session. And that just doesn't, that's just not the norm. So I wish they would have kind of talked a little bit about the process more, that it's not. You just can't stick a keyboard in front of a kid and he's going to start spelling. No. And I think what we want it so bad that you really just have to be patient and you just have to be patient and just go through the process and you will get the reward. But it's just being patient.

And it can take months or years. It takes months or years. But you know why? Because I think this is what confuses people, especially people who are spelling skeptics, will say, well, why can you put a board in front of someone and they can spell with minutia really well, but not someone at school or not with a parent or simpling? How do you explain that? I mean, I want to hear it for me.

That's neuroscience. Autism is very, very new. Okay. Our brain is so hardwired for everybody. I go to a doctor and if I'm not feeling well, first doctor tells me, don't worry, take this medicine, it'll be all good. And you just know I take a medicine. Unfortunately, for autism, there is no such guarantee. There is no such hope. The box is empty. When a parent like me sees the box is empty, my perspective was, oh, the box is empty, means I can put so many things

into that box now. What do you do when you have an empty box? If you see a box empty, you're going to put a lot of things. Meaning you're trying different methodologies. Yes. Treatments. Yes. But that was my perspective. So what you're saying is because there is no across the board treatment for autism or praxis or the ability to speak could look like an empty box.

There's no treatment, sorry. And some parents will just take that as a death sentence in a way. Like it's the end. There's nothing more we can do. Just accept that our child might be suffering or might not be able to communicate or might have these, you know, dangerous behaviors that are hurting self-inflicting harm or whatever. But you're saying another way to look at it is like, oh, I'll try everything. Yes. And I'll just start filling the box.

Yes. And what's, I think, the most frustrating thing I would imagine as a parent with a child with autism is that it's different for everyone. It is even for everyone. I always say it's like there's like a million. You have a huge thing of keys, a ring of keys. And one of them can unlock your child. And you just have to, if some people are lucky and the first key they try, it works. And for other people, there's lots of keys and you have to go through a lot of them.

before you find the one that works. On the way here, I was reading Edo and Autism. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what a great book. I mean, and one of the things that he talks about, about why he would not spell with some people was because he would see colors. He would see their aura.

And if they were a certain color, he knew that those people were not, or he could just feel whether or not, if there was any doubt, they wouldn't, he couldn't spell either. Exactly. So it was like they, there's a lot that goes into it, I think. I think they see people's, uh, oras.

They feel energies, doubts, fears. And they just refuse if they, some people I think say they can't or they don't want to. Yeah. Is Siana open with you yet? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right away. And has she given any information that has been really helpful to you around maybe what she likes or doesn't like?

We haven't asked. We haven't. We haven't. Yeah. We should. I need to. Yeah. I need to see her more because now I know which techniques to use with her.

When Siano was first diagnosed at like two years old, we did a lot of biomed stuff. Like first we tried the diet. I did that gluten-free, case-in-free, soy-free for like four years. We did so many supplements. I mean, I did craniosacylaclytherapy. We did a little bit of MNRI reflex integration a little bit. But that requires, you have to be doing with them every single day.

I did. The parents have to do it like every day. Yeah. Which is hard to work. Yeah. I mean, so we've tried a lot and we spend thousands of dollars and with very little progress. But, you know, something like spelling, if I can get her to be open with me, she can tell me what makes her feel good. What's helping?

Does she feel better if I give her this? If I don't do this. Because guessing is hard. It's hard to see, you know, especially when you're not seeing that much progress. I think it's definitely worth trying. And I think it's, I've seen how it's helped a lot of kids. kids of my friends or whatever but and for some kids I do think some of them are non-responders and I think my daughter was one of them she just didn't respond or she responded very negatively

to we did we tried to do chelation I mean and she had a horrible regression with that I mean so it's it there's just so much and you just have like there are all these keys and you have to try them and I think it's worth trying but I reached the point that I said I don't want to do anymore yeah and I've heard this from so many parents you try to everything. And sometimes it doesn't work or it's a net negative. Yeah. And then you're done. It's exhausting. You just give up. Yeah. And I, and I, I mean, my daughter is, you know, she has some language. I, you know, she's, I'm not completely close to trying things, but I've tried so many. And when I tell you so many that I just, I don't know, I just feel like I need for her to spell because I think that's

where independence will come or, you know, as much as more autonomy. and then she can tell me what she wants, what she needs. And I think, and Monisha, this is where you could probably weigh in on this, too. You'd probably meet so many parents through their center who are at the end of their rope, who've tried everything, who have very little hope left. I've heard from a lot of parents who were at that space that the only thing that ended up working and changed their lives was spelling because negative behavior switched. They were able to figure out what their kid needed or didn't need, even just simple things like

meeting parents who said they thought their child loved a cartoon on leave. So they do that. And then when their child started spelling, they're like, I hate that. It's so frustrating and so annoying. And never play that for me again, you know, which you don't know. You think you're doing the right thing. So, I mean, do you think of all the things parents could try, if you could suggest one thing, what would it be? It is so hard because every child is different.

But you mentioned the word, use the word, autonomy. autonomy. Brain development. What's that? Brain development. Brain development. It's extremely important. Our kids' brain is not maturing.

Our kids' reflexes are not integrated. They have a lot of inflammation in the body. Something that has helped, though. At around 10 years old, she started to show signs of puberty. And then her behaviors got really bad. And I was at my wit's end, and I didn't know what to do. So I did what I never thought I would do. And I went to a psychiatrist and she's on Zoloft and it's been wonderful.

Really? And I never thought in a million years I would try. But she needed it. It's just it just calmed her down. It's the anxiety is so much better. It's probably helped more than anything else. Wow, that's fascinating. How have you reconciled now the telepathy with the very almost like fearful religious point of view of this is dark or is this?

dangerous. I think anyone should read the book of heaven because when I heard about Katie and Houston and how he was very spiritual and I read the book and it just completely changed the mind. I just, there's no way you can read that book and read Euston's thoughts and think there's anything demonic about it. In those dark moments with autism and you're seeing kids suffer and you're you're suffering and you're like, where's God in this? And then to learn about he's been with them this whole time. Yes. He's been there. He's been there. He's found a way to reach them when we couldn't. You know, it's just, to me it was so comforting. It's like a comforting, like he's been there the whole time. He's found a way to bring peace to our kids when they didn't have peace

in this world. I mean, to me, it was a complete opposite of demonic. It was beautiful. And I think just to add to that, which is so, I think, important, right? is that, you know, there's people in our film, Hindu, Orthodox, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, I mean, or like in the telepathies universe that we've talked to, or agnostic. And the wonderful, most amazing thing is once the children start spelling openly, even if the parents weren't deeply devoutly religious and whatever, in whatever denomination they come from, the kids seem to have this profound, deep connection with God. Absolutely. And also, quite often we'll talk about spending time somewhere else with God or with, you know, I don't even know what. But it's really beautiful. It's beautiful.

And I don't know how you can hear that and hear those words and hear it from these non-speakers and think that there's anything negative about it. Like, how can you believe that? It's almost got a way of keeping them connected because they know that kids need connection. And we only connection. And they didn't have the ability to connect in this physical world. So he did it in the spiritual world. To me, it was so comforting that all those times that I was like, where are you, God? He was there.

He was there all along with our babies. And it's bearing beautiful things. Love. It's love. So how can you see anything, see it as anything other than what God wants? Yeah. And I also think, I've said this before when someone's like, but telepathy, what is prayer?

you pray in your head and expecting someone to hear it. That is telepathy. If you're Catholic and you're praying to a saint, you're doing it in your head. A majority of the American public have said that they will talk to deceased loved ones in their mind.

There's this deep understanding. They can hear me. If you don't have a body, you can hear me. That isn't that far flung. But suddenly when it's like person to person, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yes. So Betsy, why don't you just kind of,

Are there any questions or thoughts or feelings or even lessons that you want to share with people, right? Of like where you've been, where you're at right now, what you're hopeful about. Yeah, I think the spelling is what's going to unlock so much. And how are you feeling hopeful about spelling? Oh, I'm very hopeful. Yeah, I bet I'm not giving up. I am not giving up on spelling because that is her way to communicate. And so I have to keep going.

I have to. And I think once she can communicate with me and be open with me and tell me what she feels, I can ask her, do you want to try this or do you not want to try? I can leave it up to her because me trying to figure it out was, I think making both of us frustrated, leaving both of us frustrating. Yeah. And so just kind of being focused on that and being, and just remember to be patient and that if they're not open with it, it's probably our own fault. and just starting from the bottom, having no expectations, because I think the more expectations we have, they're feeding off of that energy.

And so I think that's, and as far as the spelling, as far as the telepathy stuff, I think for me, the big lesson is that you have to really be mindful of your thoughts. And I think that's not a bad thing. I think my daughter's helping me to try to be more positive, helping me not to go into those dark places. And I think that's a wonderful gift. Also, I want to tell every parent, and including me, not to be so hard on ourselves. Yeah. It's so isolated. Okay?

Yeah. We never ever ask, even like, I'll never ask, even Betsy. We never ask, how are you doing? Yeah, it's true. You know, it's very, it's not if you don't, I don't mean to, you know, but it's, we are so engrossed into our, every moment a child is having a behavior or meld down or egregation. just brings us down. Yeah.

It just affect us. So it's very, very, very hard. And if you need to take a break, there is no guilt feeling, you know, do things for you. We definitely are really hard on ourselves. We blame ourselves a lot for a lot of things. And there is no perfect coaching for us

because what the coach will write for us, you know, we need to sit down and ask, what do I want to do? And it just affects the overall energy in the house. So it's very, very difficult, important to, you know, do things for your own.

ourselves, keeping the guilt away. That's a great note to end on. Because truly, parents who are, you know, giving so much of their time and sacrifice to children who need more, it is a love that is beyond anything. I think most people have ever understood the amount of perseverance and patience. And you have to give yourself some slack. And also, don't forget it's the individual's journey. They come with their own karma.

Yeah. And that compare, because I think. we tend to compare, especially when we see someone, kids spelling faster or doing better. And that comparison is just, it's just not suiting anybody. It's not helping it all. Yeah. Okay. So thank you all for joining us. If you want to learn more about Manisha's center in New Jersey, you can go to AafensoryPathway.com. And there's classes and workshops and resources there. Thank you both for joining us. What an awesome conversation. Thank you. And I wish you both the best of luck. You have to keep us posted.

I will. Thank you, yes. Yes. That's it for this episode of the Talk Tracks. But new episodes will be released every Wednesday. So stay tuned as we work to unravel all the threads, even the veiled ones that knit together are reality. And please remember to stay kind, stay curious,

and that being a true skeptic requires an open mind. To dive in deeper, subscribe to our backstage pass by visiting our website. With it, you'll unlock access to bonus content like telepathy tests, ask me anything interviews with myself and guests. You'll be able to enjoy the podcast. Podcasts ad-free, connect with other members on our Telepathy Tribe Discord, and hear and see exclusive content from the Telepathy Tapes Vault. Visit our website at the Telepathy Tapes.com for more info on how to subscribe to our Backstage Pass.

Thank you to my amazing collaborators. Producers Catherine Alice and Selena Kennedy, technical directing audio mix and finishing by Jeremy Cole, opening and closing music by Elizabeth P.W. And original logo and cover art by Ben Condora Design. I'm Kai Dickens, your executive producer, writer, and host.