The Telepathy Tapes - S2E40: Ibogaine Inquiries Part II: The Intelligence of the Medicine

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

People around the world describe remarkably similar experiences with ibogaine: encounters with ancestors, shared dreams, telepathic abilities, and moments that seem to transcend ordinary consciousness.Are these a coincidence, a hallucination, or something science has yet to explain?In this episode, psychologists, neuroscientists, chemists, physicians, and former patients explore why ibogaine appears unlike any other psychedelic they've studied. From blindfolded perception and shared visions to groundbreaking brain research and the search for safer treatments, we examine the growing evidence and the enduring mystery surrounding one of the world's most extraordinary medicines.A note to listeners: This series is intended to inform, not encourage the use of ibogaine. Ibogaine is a powerful psychoactive substance with serious medical risks and should never be used without thorough medical evaluation and appropriate supervision. As you'll hear throughout this series, increasing global demand has also had profound consequences for the Indigenous communities in Gabon who have safeguarded Iboga and its traditions for generations. We encourage you to listen to the full series before drawing conclusions or seeking out treatment._______To support the indigenous peoples of Gabon, Africa and help protect the sacred Iboga plant, please visit https://blessingsoftheforest.org/ where you can learn about those who use this medicine ceremoniously, have for thousands of years, and whose access is in grave danger._______Join The Telepathy Tapes Backstage Pass to get ad-free episodes, never-before-heard interviews, behind-the-scenes documentary footage, and access to our private Discord community.This is your invitation to come closer. To help shape what’s next. To be more than a listener… to be a co-creator of this paradigm shift. So if you’ve felt moved, if you’ve felt seen, if you’ve felt the call, subscribe today and join us: thetelepathytapes.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Before we begin, a brief disclaimer. Ibogaine is a powerful psychoactive substance. It is not legal in the United States. Can be dangerous when administered improperly and is not appropriate for everyone. This series is not intended as medical advice or an endorsement of treatment. The experience is described by guests reflect their personal accounts, and listeners should conduct extensive research and consult qualified medical professionals before making any decisions related to Ibogaine or other psychedelic substances.

Hi, everyone. This is Kai Dickens, and welcome to the Ibrahimianz. Ibegain inquiries, a mini-series from TTT Media exploring one of the most promising, controversial, and misunderstood substances in the world of mental health and addiction recovery. Ibegain has been described as a treatment, a molecule, a psychedelic, a dangerous drug, a sacred medicine, a key to consciousness. And the deeper you go, we discovered that it becomes harder to fit inside any one category. And that's because Ibegain is not just a story about a substance that can help cure addiction or PTSD.

or seemingly reset the brain. It's also a story about a plant that seems to pull people into some of the strangest and most meaningful experiences of their lives. And this week on the Ibegant inquiries will be exploring just that. People having life reviews or encounters with a guide or conversations with ancestors. Often they have shared visions. Telepathy. People can see through blindfolds. Again and again, the feeling is that the medicine is not just producing hallucinations,

but showing people exactly what they need to see. In our last episode, we looked at why Ibogaine is suddenly moving from the margins and into the center of Western policy conversations. We heard from people whose lives were changed by what happened under its influence, and we began asking how sacred African plant became one of the most talked about treatments for addiction, PTSD, mental health, and trauma in the United States. But that rise comes with some complicated questions, because Ibogaine at its core is not just a treatment.

It challenges our ideas about cancer. consciousness. In this episode, we go deeper into the mystery and the unsettling possibility that this plant may be working through an intelligence that we do not yet understand. Dr. Joseph Barsooglia, former pastor-turned-sacaderned psychedelic researcher, has a uniquely blended view of Ibogaine coming from both the scientific and spiritual standpoint. He describes some of the mysterious experiences while offering a grounded perspective as a doctor. So my name is Dr. Joseph, Peter Barsoolia. I'm a clinical psychologist and a psychedelic researcher. I've been working with Ibogaine for over a decade. And prior to that, I worked in a church. I was a worship minister, went to seminary and did

pastoral counseling, and then went into psychedelic research. I think it's good to situate Iboga and Ibogaine in the landscape of psychedelics. This is really in the deep end of psychedelics. People refer to Ibrahimine as the Mount Everest of psychedelics because of its intensity and how long it lasts. It's very uncomfortable. It's mentally very challenging. Being able to witness people that have taken IboGain, it's, for me, as a psychologist and a therapist, it's the most powerful transformation I've ever seen in my own work. And then what people commonly say is in their own life.

It's a peak, spiritual experience, the most healing they've ever received. The kind of transformations you see with IboGain is that people are able to access pain and trauma and things that have been blocked. or walled off, things that are even way beyond the conscious or the subconscious mind, things connected to their ancestry, like multi-generational events. On a spiritual level, there's divine visitations. There are divine insights that come in that people report receiving messages about their soul, about who they are, about their purpose, about what's blocking them.

Justice Admiral Jim reports in the last episode, people will come out of the experience, feeling like their brain is brand new. Oftentimes is the first time people report feeling like they have a, like a newborn brain. But this isn't just a feeling experiencers have. It's hard science, backed up by brain scans. People report after iBoging that their vision improves. And so we saw this kind of reflected in this brain scan. We did a couple brain scans. We published one of them. But the other ones showed a similar finding of this increased blood flow in the occipital lobe of the brain. And this reflects something that's really unique about ibogaine, which is that when people take ibogane, they can often see with their eyes closed.

And they will have eye shades on, but you can hold up fingers and they'll tell you how many fingers you're holding up. And it was interesting to see on these brain scans that these parts of the brain associated with vision had significantly more blood flow connected with them. Being able to see while blindfolded is something we've explored previously across our shows. But the incident of this occurrence while under Ibogaine or Iboga's influence is very well documented across the world. And now is a good time to clarify the difference between Ibogaine and Aboga. And by the way, when Dr. Joseph says the traditional context, he's referring to people in West Africa who've been using Iboga as part of tradition for thousands of years. The difference is that in the traditional context, they're using Iboga the plant. The part of the plant is the root.

It's the root bark. in the middle layer of the bark of the root, and that's where the alkaloids are, and there are many alkaloids in the plant. Ibogain is just one alkaloid. So most of the clinics are using ibogane, which is like a pharmaceutical extract of that. So you might think of like THC and cannabis. Like in cannabis, there's a lot of different compounds. THC is the most common one. Ibogain and Iboga are kind of like that. A boga is a plant native to West Africa from which the alkaloid ibogane is derived. You cannot have ibegain without aboga in the same way you cannot have THC without marijuana.

One common experience that we find particularly fascinating is that people experiencing ibogaine will actually report seeing an African guide regardless of where they are or if they even knew the plant was from Africa. How can this be logically explained? It's as if the molecule itself is aware of its origins. Ibogane is considered an oniophrenic drug, which means it induces dreams. And so I think it's a catalyst. And there's something really unique about Iboga that people will have visions of Africa or see African elders, even if they're not doing it in an African context.

So I think there's something in the molecule and in the plant that has its own narrative and its own consciousness, even its own sense of humor. People will see kind of funny, funny imagery and cartoons in Iboga that they could never manufacture. Like, there's no, people say there's no way that came from me. So there's something that is coming in from the outside. And then I began also being a dream-inducing medicine. It reveals things to you that are deeply personal and biographical and things that are associated with your own subconscious. So there's this dynamic interplay between the intelligence of the medicine and its own, perhaps agenda, which seems to be healing and love and peace.

and oneness with nature and a person's own psychology and what they bring to it. And one of the beautiful things about Iboga is it often brings people back to their childhood, both memories that may have been beautiful and innocent and pure, as well as things that may have been forgotten or challenging or times where there were ruptures in relationships or you didn't feel safe.

And so it's part of the root etymology of the word of aboga means to care for. And so it feels like there's this interplay of a caring, loving, healing consciousness that is coming through the medicine coupled with what do you need healing for, what areas of your life need care and attention. But what is universal afterwards is how clear people feel and how centered and grounded people feel after this experience. These concepts are things many people relay when sharing their experience. Our producer Catherine has heard this from various experts, including award-winning documentary filmmaker Lucy Walker. I'll let the two of them take it from here.

I sort of think of it as in the sort of theme park of Iboga, there are some kind of set rides, and people will have the same sorts of experience. Lucy, who has spent years documenting the story of Iboga and Ibogain, has experienced the plant many times herself. While a materialist at heart, she still attests to some of the unexplainable journeys the plant will take users on. There's a very strange experience, which you can kind of describe or understand in different ways,

where you appear to see not just through your eyelids, but if you're wearing a blindfold, completely through your blindfold. And the experience is that you can see the room and around you, and it's very confusing, or you can see a notebook, and you can't tell, are your eyes closed, is your blindfold on? Is there writing in the notebook already?

Are you about to write the notebook? I mean, things get kind of very mushy in there. And perhaps even more extraordinary is something that happened during her first experience with Iboga. She and another participant actually shared the exact same vision. I had this very specific vision about faces melting as they twisted. There was a spindle with specific masks, with specific expressions, and I could describe the whole thing. And as we sat up after our first, sort of probably six-hour round of medicine, the guide in charge, went around and asked all the

different eight of us sort of lying on the mats on the floor that were going through the experience to tell out loud the visions that we were having. And the first vision that the first person sat up and told us was the same exact vision I had just had. And I was sort of a bit confused and thinking, no, wait, I must have gone first. I must be getting confused here because he's describing the masks melting on the spindle and the same expressions and the same kinds of face masks. I'm sort of just absolutely thrown. And I kind of put up my hand. And they say, yes. I said, well, he's describing my vision. I just saw that. That's the one I saw. What's going on? and the guide said, oh, yes, that you can catch dreams.

So I sort of thought, okay, we're entering strange territory here. I have certainly never had the experience of catching anybody else's dreams. I'm a pretty grounded, skeptical type, honestly. And I am a great believer in psychedelic science and a great, want-a-believer of so many other things. but I must say I keep my filter up very high. And I've only had a few experiences I really can't kind of fathom, just can't kind of reconcile with my own sidem. Like framework?

Yeah, exactly. But this one was really, okay, we're entering, we're entering strange and powerful territory was my absolute first indication. Where synchronicity happens and where the coincidence just seemed too meaningful, too unlikely to sort of be mere coincidence. So I think that's where it starts to get really interesting. And that vision where me and somebody across the river had the exact same vision, and that certainly got my attention because that didn't seem statistically plausible whatsoever.

While it may not be statistically plausible, it is certainly happening across the board, with many people reporting the exact same thing. I spoke with Talia Eisenberg, co-founder of another clinic that administers Ibogaine treatments in Mexico, about her experience with Ibogaine, as well as the unique experiences the clinic has been tracking. My name is Talia Eisenberg. I'm a co-founder of Beyond Ibegain. We're a facility, and we also have our own research department. We're located in Cancun, Mexico. And the reason why I founded Beyond in 2021 was because back in 2011, I was in my early 20s, and I had a pretty severe opiate addiction. After years of struggling with addiction, a friend of Talia's, who had also been addicted

to opioids, returned from a session with Ibogaine completely changed. So as a last resort, she turned to it as well. So I myself went and did Ibogaine, and I had a very profound awakening. It wasn't easy. Ibogaine is different for everybody, what it shows you, what it does. For me, I had a very real connection to my grandmother who had survived Auschwitz, who for me taught me what love was as a child and was just full of light to this woman and a beautiful person who was not angry. She forgave the Nazis and lived with such kindness and forgiveness and went on to help many other people. I saw her and it was as clear as day. Like she came to me and she, you know, I could see the parchment thinness of her skin. It was very vivid and this is a hallmark of ibigain.

It's not like a hallucination. It's very real the image. It's as if you're in this other realm and you're lucid and aware and very clear in your thought. She came to me and I could still see like the wrinkles on her skin and her parchment and skin and piercing blue eyes. And she said to me, get your life together. Stop poisoning yourself. Our family lineage survived. Everyone else was killed around me.

But our son cried when I talk about it. Our family survives so that you could be here and be of service to the world. Stop poisoning yourself. So for me, that was a huge awakening. I was an atheist. I didn't believe in anything bigger than myself. But this woke me up. And I vowed to never touch opiates, alcohol, harmful drugs like cocaine again, and I haven't.

And that was more than 15 years ago. It's not just about I began the medicine or bog in the medicine, but it connects you to the other side. Her experience completely altered the trajectory of her life. She knew she was being called to a new path. The other thing that happened to me that sometimes happens to people, not always, was that I saw almost like a timeline of my life. It showed me if I go this way and I continued harming myself because really it was a lack of self-love that I had. If I continue to use these drugs, I will end up dead soon. But if I go this other way, you know, and this is where free will and choice comes in,

I was shown very vividly also a place where people could come and basically find their truth in themselves again, people that are lost. And it looks exactly like the first facility we have and still have down to the way the pool is set up, the physical layout of the space. But show me one day, if I choose, that could be part of my destiny, if you want to call it. And I realize still it's a choice. I had to make that choice and do the work to get there. But, you know, we met with one realtor five years ago and this was the first place we saw and it looks exactly like the place in that vision wow so how were you able to get things going in a safe way as someone who had just sort of experienced it and had this vision i knew i'm not a scientist i'm not a doctor and we were able to

hire there's only a few doctors at the time that really understood ibegain protocols and we were able to hire a number of doctors when we opened beyond and develop protocols. Everything falling into place for Talia's clinic sort of affirmed for her the greater intelligence of this substance and how she had connected with something much bigger than herself. So that told me a lot about consciousness and there's a lot of unanswered questions related to consciousness but this, but I've again from what we've seen now is certainly a tool that one theory is that our brains and nervous, systems are like channels, you know, a TV channel. And there's years of trauma and suffering and

pain can create static. And Ibegain may allow individuals to have a clear connection to parts of themselves or a greater consciousness, if you want to call it that, and see what they need to do to make changes. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for because I want lighter fabrics, pieces that feel good the second you put them on, and things that can go from work to dinner without feeling overdone.

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are common in people who come through your clinic? There's a lot of observational data. We've had several thousand people come through and there's incredible stories and miracles that happen. Roughly 25% over the last few months are able to see the room with a blindfold on. and some of these people report that they can feel the nurse or somebody coming into the room before they come into the room. They see their face and then they take the blindfold off and it's them in the room. Some guests will have similar vision.

So sometimes people are treated individually or together. One guest, for example, will have the same imagery like these birds will fly at them and the other guests at the same time. will have similar imagery. Things like that happen. So they're accessing the same state of consciousness at the same time. So not only does Ibogaine seem to be bringing experiencers of its influence together

in a shared space of consciousness, vision, and connection, it often seems to connect them to the other side of life itself, like with Talia's grandmother. But with one experiencer's connection to the other side came real-time evidence to back it up. We had a guest who recently their family member were expected to pass away, but they didn't know when they crossed over during the Ibogane treatment. And mind you, in the day before, the day of and the day after, we asked people to kindly give up their phone so that they can go inward. So as this person was under the influence of Ibogaine, their family member passed away, unbeknownst to anyone at the clinic, since all phones were put away. when this person received their phone back a day later it was verified like they had a full on

conversation with their father who had you know left his body during their ibegay treatment and they had connected with them their father had comforted them and said it's okay it's my time to go um had a full conversation very vividly and then it was verified afterwards when they were given their phone back so you know that just tells us like all these anecdotes are true. That's another example of how it connects you to another realm. It's not just a hallucination. Here's Dr. Martine Polanco from last episode, who runs a different Ibegain clinic in Mexico, discussing some of the similar experiences he's come across. He believes IboGane gives us the ability to open up channels to access a greater consciousness or intelligence.

The Ibegain seems to open one of those channels. That, you know, it's very unique in when it's Starting, it's almost like these screens suddenly open up. And you have access to information from the past, information from the future, you know, how your own brain works, different voices that we're hearing. And even inside of the experiences, we've seen people exchange information telepathically. So they would do their journey in the same room. And then people who did not know each other, they knew something about the other person. It's like, oh, you had this experience. experience when you were a child, then the other person would confirm it. Again, like, it's very

hard to validate this scientifically, but there's just so many anecdotes that we've seen that it just becomes unavoidable. Other researchers share the same sentiments as Talia and Martine. What they both have been observing are not just happening at clinics. They're happening with real scientists who are backing up the notion that Ibegain works in mysterious ways they've never seen before. I spoke with Dahlabor-Samez at Columbia University, who's fascinated by how this alkaloid works in the brain. My name is Dalibor Samesh, or Dalai Samesh. I'm a professor of chemistry and neurochemistry here at Columbia University in New York City. I have been interested in this question of how molecular information or information encoded in molecules can express itself in effects of

consciousness and subjective experiences. He initially found his way to Ibogaine while looking for substances that have special functions like the ability to restore synaptic connections in the brain, or our brain's ability to send messages. I was familiar with ebogallocaloids. I was familiar with them as interesting structures, interesting substances, but I didn't know they have this remarkable potential and ability. What piqued his interest in particular was the molecule's ability to totally disrupt addiction. He had never seen anything like it before.

I came across these reports of observational studies showing this remarkable effect of ibogaine to interrupt addiction, particularly over. opioids and cocaine. That was almost hard to believe that you could have someone actively dependent on opioids or other reinforcing drugs and basically remove that dependence within a few hours. So that was really a shocker. And since then, my team here, we have been asking the question, is it even possible or is this for real or is it some sort of a snake oil? But after studying Ibogaine more and more, his team acknowledges it certainly isn't. And addiction recovery truly seems to be the tip of the iceberg.

That we hear about Parkinson's disease and potentially others. So it currently today, it looks like Abilien has the trans-diagnostic potential. And on top of it, these remarkable psychoactive and psychedelic effects and the subjective effects. So it's a rich, rich terrain, rich package. And so the question was, well, how does it work? How does it work? How can it have trans-diagnostic potential the way that it does? How does it know exactly what each individual's body needs?

The messages are quite, quite astounding because they report things like I'm being scanned, this feeling that there's other entity and I'm being scanned, and this I'm being scanned, and this I'm beginning to know me, honing in into these essential subjective personal issues and revealing insights into that. That to me is really suggestive or indicative of some sort of it. You know, I think of it as some sort of a healing algorithm. And yet, very common the presence of Iboga spirit or, you know, Ibogaine or ancestors

or other entities. So there's this feeling of there's some other intelligence involved here. And then the ability to simulate different versions of reality. Some experiences are fully immersive, holographic. It just appears as, you know, highly sophisticated, basically as psychotech, what I call it, technology. Because of this, Dahlabour and his team struggled to even compare it to anything else. It has become such a puzzle and such a challenge for us because Ibogin doesn't seem to fit to existing paradigms or to existing ideas or concepts that we teach in school how drugs work in the body. In what way is it not fitting our current paradigm of other psychedelics? How is it so mysterious to you?

Yes, great question. So classically, we explain. how drugs work, including psychedelic substances, that once they enter the body, they interact with these special molecules called receptors. So they largely bind and change the receptors of these molecules that are dancing all the time, so they're moving, and it's not static. So they have this dance going on and all of a sudden a neurotransmitter comes, or compounds like LSD comes, binds to the receptor, changes completely the dance. So traditionally, psychedelics like LSD or psilocybin will come into the brain, bind to our receptors, and change the way they're moving, which can dramatically affect our experience and perception. However, Dallabor says Ibogaine does not behave in this same way.

It doesn't really, with few exceptions, it doesn't really act on these receptors. It's interacting with many different molecules that are outside of these receptors, and it's not very potent. It's quite weak. It's more like brushing. So imagine the traffic grid in Manhattan and the traffic jam in Manhattan. If you would use the logic of psychedelics or other drugs, you would say, well, let's go to a hub, a major hub like Times Square,

and let's relieve the traffic there through opening new streets or lanes and things like that. And then you hope that this effect then propagates through the whole grid. If we picture, I begin this analogy, it's more like coming in and modifying

traffic throughout the whole grid. It concentrates on the busy street, but it has one, two, three multiple interactions, but it also modulates far away as if there's some sort of a logic, some sort of a greater molecular logic, or even maybe somehow it's reading the entire system and modulating and adjusting the whole system. So we have scientific evidence to support this very complex picture. I think it's a completely different molecular technology that I've ever seen.

Ibogaine may be such a game changer because of the fact that unlike any other substance he's come across, it can change the entire brain system. Ibogeen is a teacher, so it's showing us things that we have not really seen before, and it's showing us the complexity. Yeah, I'm really fascinated with this idea, what is the logic and, you know, where does it come from? It leads us to a completely different paradigms and different ideas. I see Ibogan and Iboga on the level of impact as a lot of.

antibiotics. And people forget how transformative antibiotics have been and they are. So for mental health, neurological health, and spiritual health, I see Ibogene as on that level. Ibegene is certainly on a level of its own. Let's now return to Kai's conversation with Dr. Martine Polanco to talk a bit more about this scanning process Ibegaine seems to elicit that potentially forces us to think outside of the current paradigm of substances. Part of the felt experience with ibogaine is also this process of scanning, like that the molecule is coming in or the essence of the molecule or the spirit of the molecule and acting like an AI diagnostic system, that it does this assessment, this multi-thread analysis of different systems, and then it detects which areas have structural damage, where

there's maladaptive patterns, and then it starts very targeted repair. And people in the experience, they can actually feel it working on specific areas where they have injury where it's like their knee or specific areas of their brain. And then the vision that they have is often of these little microbots that are like in there kind of repairing things. It's fascinating. I mean, what do you think is going on? We don't really understand what's going on and the mechanism of action is quite opaque. And modern psychopharmacology really cannot explain everything that's going on. It seems to reset serotonin and dopamine transporters, which are affected by addiction. So in a way, it's helping the brain repair and regrow. But that's not the whole

story. There's like so much more, you know, going on as well. Despite the mysterious and intriguing effects of Ibegain, as well as the plethora of positive outcomes, every expert we spoke to had words of caution. So Ibegene affects the heart and can prolong an interval in the EKG reading called the QT interval. So there's a QTC prolongation, which can prolongation. can lead to a more severe type of arrhythmia. An arrhythmia is an irregular heartbeat when the heartbeat is either too fast or too slow or the actual pattern of the heartbeat is inconsistent. And that can be mitigated through the use of magnesium. It requires quite a bit of medical infrastructure.

So it's easier to start with other psychedelics that are less onerous from a medical standpoint and less expensive. There is a lot of clinics out there, some are doing great work. And it's important to meet all the kind of physical requirements, the health requirements, get an EKG. We do echocardiograms on people. We get lab work. So it's a pretty comprehensive screening process. Here's Talia with Catherine again. This is not for everybody.

Many people come who are in dire situations, who are struggling, you know, veterans struggling with suicide or those that have severe addiction. issues and have tried everything and I begins the last house on the block. I just wanted to state that first because I think it comes with our responsibility, both from a media perspective and as a clinic founder and owner. Despite the warnings, things seem to be taking off at an increasingly rapid rate. Trials are underway, funding is lined up, and researchers are eager to move this train along. Here's Dr. Dallibor Sameh again from Columbia University. He co-founded a company dedicated to this research.

I'm a co-founder of Gilgamesh pharma, and we put together Gilgamesh, because nobody really cared about ibogaine and other psychedelics, certainly the pharmaceutical industry was, as you know, I mean, that was a taboo for a long time. So we started our own company, and Gilgamesh has multiple research programs. One of the areas is Ibogan analogs. So the idea here and the goal is, can we be used? take these novel Iboga molecules that were created in my laboratory, can we generate safer ibupagin compounds? Molecules are basically like children of Ibochane. So they're inspired by the parent and we're creating versions. None of them will be exactly like Ipogaine, I don't think.

But we may get pretty close or we may create a new generation. They will have its own special features and characters. Can we generate an entire portfolio of Ibrahimate-like therapeutics. But what are the implications of these therapeutics? Is anything lost if new versions are created? If this plant is indeed conscious and a teacher, does it want us to be doing this? In order for ibogaine to be used, oftentimes the plant is being taken from the forests of West Africa.

Dr. Sama's is aware of the consequences of that and doesn't want the supply burden to fall on that part of the world, which is in part why he's working on creating ibogaine synthetically. However, as we'll hear about in the next few episodes, even if Ibogaine is chemically created in a lab, it can have direct impact on communities in Gabon, Africa. However, his excitement is clear and it's understandable. This plant is clearly incredibly powerful. He thinks its knowledge might really have the ability to change science and the world.

I really think it's a novel molecular technology, and I also believe strongly that to be able to understand it. and learn from it, we will need something like a human genome project. We will need a major project initiative, national, international initiative, to really go deep. Because this is the boldest version of my theory that I think of, that we may find out that I begin is more of a molecular algorithm. Ibrahimigen may actually be its own version of molecular intelligence. And from so much of what we've been hearing throughout these interviews, it's a loving intelligence. The plant is so special, and if it is indeed conscious, the intention behind it is certainly pure.

It wants to help people and wants to further society. It's a loving being, I believe that. And even if it's very stern and direct, that's like a highest form of love in a way, when a grandfather or grandmother comes at you and is incredibly direct. That's why I don't think it's a hallucination, because hallucinations are usually based on deep fears or deep desires. This is, you know, you need to do this clear as day, and months later, it still rings as true,

whereas like hallucinations sort of fade off afterwards. This is a realm that's very much real and a level of truth that I hear over and over from clients just with how, that it's a true serum and it can be very damning and very direct and not fun to look at these parts, but it's what you need to hear to live a better life, you know, and that can come down to love. And it really showed me actually how the light always wins. Like, the Ibegain is this loving force, and in the end, there's all this strife, and there's wars, and there's chaos, and it's humans hurting other humans.

our ill thinking and our fear of minds, but how the light prevails. I did see like the African, like where we come from as humanity and the struggle of it all and how we need that struggle to evolve. It was very, very powerful. Talia also identifies a concern that we'll hear more about in the next episodes. It's one many in Gabon have as well. There's a 747 a day of overdoses in the U.S. And then, you know, the veteran suicide is awful.

It's serious. So we need to move fast, but we need to be rigorous and not move too fast, rigorous with the science. We in the West have our own views of science and how to administer this medicine. But the truth is, there have been thousands of years of practice, knowledge, and research about aboga done by the communities in Gabon, Africa. What would happen if we started mass producing this sacred compound? What are we losing by severing a boga from these? ancient and time-honored traditions. And maybe most importantly, what does this all mean for people in Gabon? That's next time on the Ibegain Inquiries. If you enjoyed this podcast, you'll find

even more on the main telepathy tapes feed, where each week we explore consciousness, human potential, and the mysteries that challenge our understanding of reality.