The Telepathy Tapes - S2E51: Willow Smith on Creativity, Consciousness, and Music | Talk Tracks

Episode Date: September 23, 2026

Grammy-nominated artist Willow Smith joins Ky Dickens for a deeply personal conversation about music as medicine, dreams as creative portals, spirituality, and the mystery of human connection.Willow shares how a lifetime of curiosity - from sacred traditions and nature to science and consciousness - has shaped her creative life. She reflects on music as a devotional and communal practice, the role of intuition in her songwriting, and the profound experiences that have expanded her sense of what may be possible.She also discusses “Talk On The Hill,” her beautiful song from her newest album The Thread, inspired by the non-speakers of The Telepathy Tapes and the extraordinary possibilities of communication beyond words._______Join The Telepathy Tapes Backstage Pass to get ad-free episodes, never-before-heard interviews, behind-the-scenes documentary footage, and access to our private Discord community. This is your invitation to come closer. To help shape what’s next. To be more than a listener… to be a co-creator of this paradigm shift. So if you’ve felt moved, if you’ve felt seen, if you’ve felt the call, subscribe today and join us: thetelepathytapes.com._______Thank you to our sponsors!Alloy - Try the original estrogen-powered M4 skincare from Alloy. Visit myalloy.com and use code TAPES for $20 off your first order! One Skin - Get 15% off OneSkin with the code TAPES at https://www.oneskin.co/TAPES #oneskinpod.Fabletics - Shop now at Fabletics.com/tapes to get 70- 80% off everything when you sign up as a new VIP.Ka'Chava - Go to kachava.com and use code TAPES for 15% off your first order.Shopify - Start your business today with the industry’s best business partner, Shopify. Sign up for your free trial at Shopify.com/tapes.BiOptimizers - Make this the year you finally get your sleep, your energy, and yourself back. Get 15% off at bioptimizers.com/tapes when you use my code, TAPES.Monarch - Use code TAPES at Monarch dot com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50.Progressive - Insurance isn't one-size-fits-all. Visit Progressive.com and find a rate that works for you with the Name Your Price® tool.Honeylove Treat yourself to the most advanced bras and shapewear on the market. Save 20% off Honeylove at honeylove.com/TAPES.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everyone is Kai. Mark your calendars for October 7th because season three of the telepathy tapes, the reincarnation records is coming. Hi everyone, I'm Kai Dickens and welcome to the Talk Tracks, brought to you weekly by TTT Media. In this series, we explore the threads that weave together our understanding of reality, science, spirituality, consciousness, and even unexplained phenomena. Because every era has ideas once dismissed as impossible until someone was willing to investigate them seriously. And on this show, We do just that.

Today we're joined by Willow Smith, a Grammy and Emmy and MTV Award-nominated artist, who's released nine studio albums and continually evolves her sound and pushes the boundaries of her creativity. Throughout her career, she's spoken openly about spirituality and consciousness and the ways that those explorations have shaped her artistic expression. And we'll talk about one very special piece of that creative journey that has a direct connection to us. Willow has recently released a song called The Talk on the Hill for her newest album, The Thread. It's inspired by the non-speakers featured in the telepathy tapes. And it's an incredible song.

I personally love how deeply curious Willow is. She's incredibly well-read and approaches questions about reality and purpose with the humility of someone who is genuinely searching for meaning rather than claiming to have all the answers. And I personally think that is the magic ingredient to her work and to her life. So, Willow, welcome to the talk tracks. I'm so excited to talk to you about all of this and to finally have you on this couch. Thank you. I'm honored to be here. So, Willow, I think of you as an artist and a musician, but I'd love for you to go ahead and introduce yourself. Okay. Well, I'm Willow. I am a musician and just lover of all things odd and heartfelt and thoughtful. I'm quite an avid dreamer as well. So, like, I've...

I've had dreams that I am in a place and then it's almost like a deja vu kind of situation to where later on in my life I'm looking around and I'm like, wait, like I've seen this before. Wow. This is very interesting. Or in a dream hearing a melody and then a waking up and need to like voice memo the melody or whatever that may be. I think in my dreams is where I can really. travel and see things that the physical, that I wouldn't see in the physical realm.

That's cool. Like what? Like sometimes I'll dream about, like, a couple months ago. And I wouldn't necessarily call it a dream, but as I, but when I was unconscious, I, this story, because I'm also a writer. So it was like this story came to me about a mother. and I called my mom as soon as I woke up and explained to her this whole scenario. And then later on in that day, I found out that my friend's mom was sick. And that was all in your dream.

Yes. And I was seeing it as a novel. Like I was seeing it as like, I mean, not that it would be this good, but if I wrote it. But I was seeing it as almost like an Anna Karenina kind of like-esque feel of a novel. Yeah. And I was telling my mom all of this, just thinking it was like a creative idea. Wow. And I was like, hmm, I was like, whoa, okay.

So that was like really precognitive. Yeah. I didn't say anything because I'm like, I'm not going to make this moment about me. Like obviously I need to be here for you and like, you know, be present with this. Yeah. But that was, that happened recently. Wow. And that was very just moving.

And the fact that I saw it as a creative. creative endeavor and not necessarily, like, I didn't see it as a vision. I didn't see it as like, I just saw it as an idea. That's interesting. And so I feel like in that creative space, we can channel certain things that we may not be aware of. Totally. And me tapping into my friends, like, energy field, like, something to do with, like, me being so tapped into their energy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I was reading this book where they were talking about talking about in certain Native American communities, their, like, dreams are so important that, like, if you don't tell someone that they were in your dream, it's seen as, like,

oh, my gosh, like, no, like, you have to tell someone that you were in their dream, or that you have to tell someone that they were in your dream. Yeah. Because that can have, like, huge implications for their future and, like, they need to know. Like, very interesting, like, yeah. Yeah, very interesting stuff like that. Have you had any other, like, kind of experiences with the non-physical world of something you couldn't explain that have really impacted you? Yeah.

I don't really like to talk about it a lot, but I've had a good amount of experiences with indigenous plant medicine ceremonies. Cool. Okay. I feel weird talking about it on platforms like this, but all I'll say is that going back to the knowledge that, you know, these deep cultures have to offer, that, you know, knowledge of the land, knowledge of mutual aid community systems, and these ceremonies that they have been using to strengthen that community bond for thousands of years, I think that they have been practicing for a long time deep embodied levels of telepathy through their cultural music and through the way that they prepare these plants.

Yeah. And I've had the beautiful opportunity to experience this a number of times with my family and some extended family. I would love to know what, like, you walked away from after the experience that you didn't have before in terms of, like, knowledge or connection. And when you started talking about it, I thought about it. So in season two, we interviewed the chief of the Kunta Nawa Nation. And what was really interesting, I'll never forget, he said, our technology is better than your internet. And he's like, because not only can we connect with each other and animals, but we can connect with the other side and with nature and the whole forest. He's like, your internet can't do that. Oh, no. And I was like, that is the best. And he was talking about telepathy and the connection or, you know, what? what are these sigh abilities, but grounded in the rituals of a lot of these like historically healing, really transformative plants.

100%. So, I mean, people I know are really profoundly changed. And so I'd love to know, like, what, you don't have to go into the depth of what you experience, but how you transformed? Like, looking into your mother's eyes and being able to feel what she's feeling. and not even just in the moment, but being able to feel, looking into your brother's eyes,

looking into your father's eyes, being able to, without words, contact a memory of their inner child. That's cool. And to be able to share in that in silence. And it's very, I feel

like the human animal, like we don't have claws, we don't have, we can't run that fast, you know what I mean? Like, we're very fragile. Yeah. When you're thinking about it, us contrast against other animals who are a bit more durable physically. Yeah. And so our sensitivity, I feel like evolutionarily speaking is like our strength.

Yeah. And so what I took away from those experiences was a deep knowing and many different, many different memories of, like, I don't have to believe things. Yeah. Like, I know, right? And that's something that is priceless and invaluable. because belief can be a little bit tricky. Right. You know?

There's belief and there's knowing. 100%. And I think that the biggest thing that I took away from these experiences is a deep knowing. I just love that that's where you went right now because, you know, I think back to even like, like Socrates. And some of these people who are having these arguments about writing. 100%. Which is like when writing comes in. in, people are going to pretend they know something, but they haven't experienced it so they don't

know it. So there's going to be a bunch of posers out there. 100%. And I, you know, like, I think about this example sometimes like chocolate, right? Like, you could write about chocolate. That's not the same of eating it. And I feel like belief is like taking someone else's word for it interpretation of it or like knowledge of it and being like, okay, I'm going to strongly hold this. Like adopting something that maybe is not inherent in yourself. Yeah. But there's a strong, it's strong. It's strong. to just be like, nope, I know. I've experienced it, I know.

But not all the time are we put in positions to where we can experience those things. And I think that that's the thing that, like, I feel like back in the day, maybe these experiences were a little bit more accessible. I just love that you're saying that so much because, you know, we've talked a little bit about psychedelics and we did an thing on Ibane. And one of the things that I came away with when talking to, like, people and a lot of indigenous leaders was like, you guys can go do psychedelics, whatever, you're doing it wrong. Yeah.

There's rituals. Yes. There's thousands of years in some cases of like practice. There's ways in which we practice these specific things. Yes. And it's reverence. And it is community building and it's grounding. And there's such a respect for what this can do for the human being with the non-physical

world, which to all of these communities was right there. Yeah. And, you know, I've read this or seen this or how. version of this all the time, which is like, you know, God has said, why isn't God in our world anymore the way that, you know, he or she apparently was in the ancient world when, you know, burning bushes were happening and this and this. And it's like, because we've left. Like, we have, we have put up walls and become really convenient and we love our screens and we are working all the time. And like... We've actively walked away from the depth of our experience. We've actively walked away and turned a blind eye to the depth of our experience in so many ways. Yeah. And I think that it's really just like a perspective shift. Yes, totally.

Like there is magic and beauty happening everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. Like you were talking about how that indigenous leader was talking about like, your internet is nothing compared to the connections that we can make. Yeah. Even just like the fungal mycelium network. Yeah.

I think we're also getting farther away from curiosity as well. Yeah. Which is shutting us off from like just facts. I know. Shudding us off from just knowing facts about the earth. Yeah. And facts about nature. Right.

And I think that as humans kind of separate more and more from like what makes us human. Yeah. And separate more and more from, I always think about it this way. Like I don't like the zoo. The zoo is not a good place. Yeah. I feel same. But when you go to a zoo, every single animal has a different habitat.

And, you know, different plants, different kinds of water sources, different kinds of food, different kinds of grasses, even sometimes different kind of lights. And I think we forget that, like, we are animals and humans require a certain kind of environment. And we're really just separating a lot from the kinds of environments that we thrive in as a human animal. Yes. And so I feel like these kinds of things that we're talking about when we are in our habitat. Yeah. Not like environmental habitat, emotional mental habitat, community habitat, when those are intact. Yes. I think these experiences are way more accessible. Yeah. But because we're just going away from it, I think we're losing contact with so much of what makes the human animal what we are. Human. Yeah. And what can appear as more than human. Honestly. 100%. What are the ways you stay in touch with your natural habitat? How do you make this world work for you and your spiritual life?

Man, it is not easy. And a lot of times I am searching for that. But I think music is a big tether. Big time. I think having some connection with nature, whether that be like I love animals. I have five animals. I live with five fur babies. And so, like, just, like, I feel like animals are almost like trees.

Like, trees filter out the carbon dioxide. Yeah, yeah. And they put out oxygen. Yeah. And I feel like animals, you know, I think they can be similar in the energetic vibe of a space to where maybe they take in negativity and they put out, like, intense observation. Yeah. Like, animals are very aware of everything that happens. Yeah.

And when you observe them, you get kind of pulled into that sense of awareness and, like, in the moment all the time. Yeah. And so, yeah, they – maybe they take in like – maybe they take in your, like, unawareness and they put out, like, a sense of just, like, here and now. Yeah. I love that. Which type of animals do you have? I have three cats and two dogs. Aw.

Yeah, you're right, though, because, like, sometimes in the morning I'll go outside and I'll try to meditate or whatever. And I have this big dog that looks like a wolf. And she'll come up and just put her head on me for a long time. It's her way of hugging. And then I realize it does the exact same thing as meditating. Totally. I'll just sit there and make we are going to hug for a while. And it feels so good to like have an animal ground you like that.

It's beautiful. Yeah. Animals are not caught up in their minds. No. Everything is about the body and about the environment. And they're so keyed into their environment. Yes. I honestly think that's why the adjudice.

Egyptians loved cats so much. Yes. And kept cats around all the time. Yes. Because I have seen my cats vibe energies that maybe shan't be around. Yeah. Right. You know. Yes. Totally. And so they do, they keep the space clean in a lot of ways. Also of people that shan't be around. Yes. They do. You know? Yeah. And I think that's so important. So yeah, my animals, one of the ways, music, one of the ways and just like solitude like you know we have this idea that meditation is supposed to be like okay we're doing this and we're really going to try to not think yeah but sometimes meditation is just like being okay with just sitting in silence and you don't have to be doing anything in particular you know but i think in this like fast-paced crazy world that humans have created that's like

getting us farther and farther away from our nature yeah it's very different and odd to just sit in silence. Yeah. And some people find it very, very uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. And so sometimes I'll just challenge myself to not do anything in particular and just sit and just look around and just be in silence. Yeah.

And that really just grounds me and brings me back to like myself. Yeah. 100%. As I've gotten older, I've realized that feeling good about money has a lot less to do with obsessing over every purchase and a lot more to do with actually understanding. the full picture. And honestly, when life gets busy, finances can become one of those things that you know you should be paying close retention to, but you don't necessarily want to spend your free time digging through accounts and spreadsheets. And that's why I've really liked Monarch. It brings

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OnSkin.com with code tapes. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. I'm curious what role spirituality has played in your creative life. What role hasn't it played in my creative life? I am a deep believer that music is a vehicle of healing and that when it's done in a thoughtful, intentional way, it can be deep medicine. I think that human beings pretty much since the beginning of our brains being, and maybe even before this, before culture, as we know it, music has been a vehicle for human beings to create community and places of ceremonial, devotional ceremonial practices and spaces that are deeply important to just community building and a sense of connection with. the land and your chosen family. Yeah, I love that.

I was just talking to my cousins the other night, and I was saying, I was like, if I'm playing a song or writing a song, and I don't feel like it's healing me, or I don't feel like I'm saying something that I need to hear, then I'm almost like, I'm probably not saying something that anyone needs to hear. You know what I mean?

Like if I don't feel like it's, like if it's not touching me, Yeah. I'm less likely to put it out or to think that it is, that it's going to be as important as it needs to be. Because I'm the first person that it needs to touch. Yeah. If I'm trying to touch other people, if I'm trying to touch other people's hearts. Yeah.

Like, if it's not touching my heart, then, like, what's going on? Like, how am I going to be able to gauge, like, how deep of an expression that's, like, how deep of an expression? this is of the human experience. Right. If it's not even touching my heart. Yeah. And so I think that's where it starts. That's so true.

It starts with like, do I need to hear these lyrics? Yeah. Do I, is there something in these lyrics that is inspiring me towards a more embodied way of living? Right. I love that. And I think people who've truly changed the world think I needed this for myself. I couldn't find it or I don't have it. So let me give it to everyone else.

100%. That's so beautiful. Yeah. So Willow, you wrote a beautiful. beautiful song called The Talk on the Hill on your newest album The Thread. It's a beautiful song. It's absolutely beautiful. And maybe just talk about the origins and what inspired you. Well, obviously, I was listening to the telepathy tapes and I'm just so blown away by what these kids can do. And people, not just kids, but what these people can do. Magic is the wrong word because it feels like not

connected to the physical realm, but you see in the videos online that you post on the website, you can see that these non-speakers are really doing these amazing feats that we can't really explain. And so for me, that was just so inspiring. And I wanted to write a song, like something so deep like that is usually not used as content for like a song. summer pop song that you want to hear at a festival or like outside with your friends or like something that you want to like joy being like the frontward facing thing. Yeah. And not it being like

a brooding, um, deep emotional thing, which it also is. Yeah. But I wanted to create a song that inspired joy in people. And like a lot of these people, a lot of these non-speakers are kids. Yeah. And so I wanted to kind of bring that playful. Yeah. energy to it. Yeah, that childlike wonder. Yeah. That what the world could be. Yeah. I love it. What were some of your favorite lines in the song? Okay. I have a couple. Gather on the hillside. The wind knows all of our names. That was one of the lines that I really loved because you talk about a lot on the podcast, like some of these non-speakers, like knowing each other without having met each other. and knowing details about each other's lives that there's no possible way they could have known that.

And so I wanted to kind of say it in a way that was like poetic and not so on the nose. I love it. You know, it's like let's go to this place where the wind knows all of our names. Don't try to figure out why. You don't know how it's so beautiful about that? I want you to keep going. But when I heard it, I was really like, wow, because I don't know if you listen to our season two, but there was an episode in there of a woman named Rebecca

whose father she's trying to read, she's got Alzheimer's. And he's Cuban, he's speaking Spanish, and there's a translator. And a lot of it she didn't put together till later. But apparently he was saying to the man, Dan Gorky, like, I can hear you, you're in the wind. What?

When he was trying to explain the telepathy. He goes, I can hear you. It's like you're in the wind. Wow. Isn't that cool? I literally have goosebumps right now. I felt when I heard your song, I was like, oh, it's going to be.

Because all those things are to layer eventually. It's connecting. It's all connecting. The foundations they shake. We wake up, we wake up. So good. Oh, this one I really liked. Across the earth, they send smoke signals that we can't see. I wish I could read them.

Learn a new melody. I wish I could see such an unusual freedom. Show me how to gather on the hillside. Oh, it's so good. Thank you. I just, and also I was very intrigued by like the parents and the teachers of these non-speakers who kind of got like, they, spending so much time with these kids, they like tapped into their frequency and were experiencing things that they would have never experienced otherwise. Yes. And so that led me to believe that like maybe there's a way that we can teach this.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like maybe there's a way that, you know, we could all share in some aspect of this parallel reality. Yeah. You know. Totally. I mean, because I think you're right. I mean, especially with teachers.

I don't know why it's more teachers than parents, but so many of them report that when they're working with an individual for a certain odd time, often they can start to hear the non-speaker back, like the top that they can go both ways. Totally. And often they're able to see things like the other side or whatever. that they weren't able to do before. And it's like, what does that mean? It means that maybe we can work together to elevate each other. 100% and unlock each other.

Yes. Which is unbelievable to think about. Yeah. And it also means we're all capable of it. 100%, which is so exciting to me. There's another concept, Darwin did this whole thing with, like, finches on this island in the Galapagos. Yeah, this is sounding familiar. Yeah, where like these finches, um,

learned how to open a specific kind of nut in a specific way. And then, like, without these birds communicating, like, on another island nearby, when they had not been doing that before, those birds started opening the nut in the same way. Wow. And so there's this thing, there's an actual scientific concept where it's, like, once... Like morphic resonance. Yes. It's like once one of the animals starts doing something different,

in this weird twist of like, it might be evolutionary, biological, something of that nature, but there's like this sense of connection to where it's like, oh, now we're just all doing it differently. Yeah. Or even like athletes where it's like, oh, we couldn't run that fast before. Humans couldn't run that fast before. Now one person does it. And now it's like, oh, we just, it like breaks.

the seal of what we think is possible and now more people are able to do it. And so we see this not only, we see this in like biological states and with animals and with humans. Totally. I don't think that this is entirely different than that. It's just like a new, it's like a new evolutionary step. Yeah. And I want to bring that into your creative process in a second. Because I think one of the places we see this a lot is in an idea coming into the world. world. Totally. And like Rick Rubin said in our second season, that sometimes a new, like, genre of music will pop up on three different continents and they're not copying each other. Totally. They were inspired at the same time. Yep. And it's manifesting in its own, like, you know, regional way. Yeah. During the same time. During the same time. But the world, something was like, you guys are now ready. Yeah. You're ready for this. Yeah. You know. And that like moves people.

You know, like we're, I think humans are so, we're so rooted in like, we're community animals. Yeah. You know, and so I think that goes even deeper than we know. Like our ability to connect with our community. And even for better or for worse as well, it's like if the vibes of your community are going into a more like tribal kind of, you know, violent kind of situation. Yeah. It's very easy for the human animal to get swept up in that as well and be exhibiting behaviors that they wouldn't necessarily exhibit otherwise. And that can also go positively as well.

Yeah. Now, when you are like writing a song or having an idea for a song, does it feel – I mean, there is a difference between, like, working at something because you're talented and we all do that too. Or being like fully inspired by a creative download. and you know when it's the different thing, right? Like, you can tell when it's that. Like, do you get those creative downloads? And then if you are ever having a hard time, which maybe you're not with, like, creative inspiration,

is there something you do to help call it to yourself? Yes. So interesting. I was in my house the other day with a friend, and he was playing the saxophone, and I was just playing the guitar, and we were trying to come up with something. and I sang a specific word.

And as I was singing the word, the way that I was singing it, I like in my mind's energy field, like I caught a glimpse of like this little eye. And I was like, hmm, what's that? And then as I was singing the song and I kept singing that part over and over again, I realized, oh, M.G. Tom York has a little eye, right? Yeah. And I didn't say anything to my friend. Yeah.

We kept playing and jamming. Yeah. And we stopped and he was like, you know what's so interesting? And I was like what? And he was like, when you sang that one line, that was just like giving like Tom York. What? Oh, I love that. I was like, yeah, yeah, I felt that too.

And I didn't say anything about it. You know what I mean? But like I will sometimes unconsciously call on musicians that I really love. Whether it be a certain way that they move their body or a certain color that I saw them wearing or whatever it is, it's that bond that I have with them. I love that. From listening to their music so much. And sometimes I can like call to their energy to kind of just like hang in the room a little and, you know, give me some inspiration. whatever that may be. And it might just be a word. It might be one note. But I have found that, yeah, like, if you call to your favorite musician, they will come to you in whether it be small ways or, you know, bigger ways. But I think that's something that we can cultivate. And some people, you know, you just call that inspiration. But I wasn't consciously trying to do it at that moment. I think that's so cool because I think you're right. And I have never put.

language to it. Totally. But that like other artists, because I do think art in and of itself, like you are, if it's truly inspired, you are communing with something else. A lineage, yeah. Yeah. The lineage, but it's so interesting because the lineage of really amazing artists all goes back to that really pure channel.

Yep. And so it's almost like the lineage is just like a continuation of people tapping into a pure channel. You're right. Yeah. And it's so interesting that like we can rely on each other to do that. And I thought about, like, sometimes I'll get like, oh, what do I want to say here or whatever? And the weirdest, I will open up and I will read a Mary Oliver poem. Like Mary Oliver, for some reason, because she's in nature all the time.

It's a somatic experience where she's noticing the world around her and she'll, you know, focus on like the grass opera on her hand for like, you know, an entire page. And it's like, okay, here I am. Okay, good. And it's just so cool how like we can all find those people that are like, you'll be my little gateway. Totally. To this more pure channel. 100%. I feel like that's what we're supposed to do.

Yeah, right. I feel like we're supposed to be a touch point for others to follow that pure channel. Yeah. And to tap into that pure channel. Because sometimes it's really difficult to do that on your own. It is. You know? So Willow, I'm like you.

I read all the time. I read a ton of nonfiction. I love knowledge. I like science. Yeah. But I don't like this idea of like scientism as a religion where it's like, we only know the truth. and we're laughing at you if you think this or that. Science can be very bigoted.

Yes. Suzanne, I'm trying, I can't remember her name. She wrote The Finding the Mother Tree, which was the book about, she really broke the whole thing about trees communicating through the mycelium. Also braiding sweet grass is a really great one. Yes. I need to read that. Yes. What is it called again?

Suzanne Seymard. That's her name. Finding the mother tree. Finding the mother tree. Yeah. And it was really interesting because when she, she was kind of put in charge of like the nurseries that were happening, when Canada made a law that was like you have to replace any trees that you. you know, fell, like you have to put them up. So, and she was noticing that trees were doing really great on the edges where there's

big trees nearby. Yeah. And she's like, I think they communicate. Well, she was like, laughed out of town, you know, and it was like, and then she's like, I'll go get my degree. Totally. And I will prove this. And she did.

Wow. And it's just like, you know, there are the people on frontier science, which are looking, is that an antidote that the trees on the side are doing better? Yeah. But she observed it. Yeah, she observed it, you know. And then did research. Right.

And was like, actually, there's a lot of parallel. to what I'm saying. And also going to like getting laughed out of town in the scientific community, like Diane Powell, her PhD getting revoked because she wants to study something. Like this is the thing for me to where it's like, okay, she already earned it though. Right. So it's like, so now it's like how does that even logically make any sense? It's like she earned it.

Yeah. She got the certification. And now with the certification as this person, she's, shall be able to then go out into the world and use her amazing mind to study whatever it is she wants to study. And so I think, yeah, I love science and I love academia, but there are so many gatekeepers. Yes. And it's so, and we're not even going to get into the sexism and the racism of all of that, you know, because that's a whole other podcast. Yeah. But yeah, it's like if academia and the Scholastic pursuit is supposed to be about finding the truth.

I feel like we could do it better. I feel like we could be even more efficient in the way that we try. Totally. Because I keep thinking, like, freedom of inquiry is what science should be about. Ask any question. Yeah. And then be open for either answer. And be open to the process of trying to figure out what that means.

Yeah. Like, be open to the process, at least. Yeah. And, you know, I, like, have been so interested in, like, what are the things? Who is at the top that is making things that happen? Like, we just, oh, so we just dropped an episode today about energy healing. Oh, yeah. And how M.D. Anderson was doing a research study on pancreatic cancer cells and had an energy healer and, like, a fake energy healer and a control group, looking at could energy healing, you know, like reverse or stop the spread of pancreatic cancer.

And it was effective. And the first journal that they tried to put the study into, it was rejected. And we have just witnessed this with one of the telepathy tests out there that is really well done. It was super conclusive. There was so many. It's the best, such integrity. And I know that this study was sent out to the first journal and they were like, won't even look at it. Yeah.

And it's like, why? It's, I don't understand why because it pushes all of us forward if front to your side. In medicine, I really hate to say it, but capitalism truly is like the weird little gallum child of patriarchy and white supremacy. It is. It's like such, it's the weird little child. No, you're right. That was birthed from those two.

I love your like look of that. Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like, it's all gnarled. Yeah. Like, you know? Yeah. And I really do feel like because there's so much money to be made. Yeah.

From people being sick and from people having to. pay tooth and limb for, you know, for pharmaceutical solutions. Right. There's just so much money to be made in that. And so I think that, and you also have to look at, like, who's funding, like, who's funding these scientific studies, for one. You know what I mean? Who benefits from this being a thing or not being a thing?

Yeah. And so, yeah, not my little, you know, my conspiracy theorist mind, but it's honestly not even a conspiracy theory. Like, if you really just look at the way, like, if we're talking specifically medical right now, the amount of money to be made off of people being sick is just tremendous. Yes. And time and time again, not only in the American government or the American system, but we see it globally. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because, I mean, obviously you're right.

I mean, it's money, it's control and total control. And one of the things that happened in New York where they're trying to pass this spelling bill of rights to allow non-speakers the ability to have a communication partner in school so they can communicate. Totally. It was killed like in the dead of the night. And I knew some of the people on the ground that were really trying to help, like, bring the education through these legislators to vote on this. And one of them actually said, well, what if non-speaking individuals who are sexually abused more than most. people in society because they're silent, start saying who did it. More or less is what they said in so many words. Which was, I was like, what? I understand if like the ABA industry or someone

who's profiting off of autism. And it's like, why don't you want them to say who did it? Yeah, exactly. I mean, that was what was so bonkers to me. Like there's been so many reasons why people might not support spelling that our money backed. But the idea of like, wait, if these individuals are telepathic or have had a horrific experience, what if that gets? And so. gets out into the world, it felt so much darker and more nefarious and more awful than like, we don't want people to be able to see deeply into things, to see behind the veil that much. Yeah. So we need to kind of keep them, we need to keep them silenced because we don't want the majority of people knowing the depths of what they know.

Yeah. These non-speakers. I think there's a truth to that. I really do. And I would, I hate to even admit that out loud. Yeah. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist either. I mean, I know that you're not either, but like, it is.

I think that what people, I think sometimes people call pattern recognition and a healthy sense of curiosity. So these two things, like very intense pattern recognition and a healthy sense of curiosity. I think a lot of people just write that off as conspiracy theorism. Yeah, right. which just doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah. And I think that it's a cop-out. Yeah.

And I think that there's a lot of social ways that people, it's like you don't want to be the odd one out. Right. You don't want to be ostracized in your, which is also a big thing about the human animal. Because we're so community-oriented. Right. To be ostracized from your community can mean death. Right. And so even though we live in a different time where that doesn't mean physical

death. Our evolutionary biological nervous systems are like, okay, red alert. I don't want to be ostracized. And so I feel like societally, a lot of healthy curiosity is labeled in really negative ways. Yeah. And that causes people to be silenced. Right. Yeah. Which is, I think, one of the most common ways that we are indoctrinated, just because we don't want to, we don't want to be ostracized. We don't want to be labeled. We don't want to be excluded, you know. My days tend to move really quickly, and I'm always going from one thing straight into another. I might work out in the morning and then spend the afternoon recording or doing interviews, and then suddenly realize I'm supposed to be meeting someone for dinner. So honestly, I love anything

that makes my life easier. And that's what I love about fabletics, which I'm actually wearing right here. I can put on a great pair of leggings, or I can put on a bomber jacket like this that's stretchable and keeps you warm when you're working out, but still looks cool during the day. And I can actually stay in what I put on all day long. It works for a workout, but it also feels polished enough that I don't have to completely change before jumping on camera or heading into a meeting or going out later. And I really appreciate not having to overthink getting dressed.

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Again, that's fabletics.com slash tapes for 70 to 80% off everything as a new VIP. There are so many people sitting on an idea for a business because actually getting it off the ground feels overwhelming. You might know exactly what you want to create, but then comes the website, payments, inventory, and all the technical stuff that can make you wonder where to even begin. One thing I learned after starting the telepathy tapes is that when an idea really takes off, you suddenly need a real home for all of it. And for us, it's not just the podcast, but the community, the resources, and even our merchandise sales where 100% of the profits go to support nonprofits. That's where Shopify makes so much sense. If you had an idea, a product, or a community that you're building around, Shopify gives you the tools to actually launch it without needing to know how to code

or piece together a million different platforms. Shopify gives you everything you need to start and run your business in one place. Their templates and AI tools can help you build a beautiful storefront quickly without needing to know how to code. And once customers are there, Shopify checkout makes it incredibly easy for them to actually complete their purchase. Plus, if you get stuck along the way, Shopify's built-in AI assistant, sidekick, is there to help you build, troubleshoot, and keep moving. So instead of juggling a bunch of different systems, you can spend more of your time actually growing the business you set out to create.

If you're ready to hear the of your first sale today, head over to Shopify.com to start your free trial. That's right. Start your free trial at Shopify.com today. That's Shopify.com. Growing up, did you have a big sense of spirituality? Was that a part of your life? Yeah, I mean, my parents have always been just big lovers and just curious about all things that speak to the human spirit. And ever since I was young, you know, my parents read the Quran, the Christian Bible, the Bhagavad Gita. They were always just like curious about every single kind of thought path and spiritual path and all of the things that we can gain from learning from all of these different cultures. And so from a young age, I grew up with a lot of books about Krishna and Radha and Jesus and Allah and all of these beautiful human expressions.

of the divine. It's so cool because, you know, I think so many people grow up with like one framework or one belief system put on their path, you know? And when you're exposed to so many, I'm so curious as to like what you believe now, having had all the opportunity to really think through a lot of different ideas. Yeah. I'm also a deep lover of science as well. I, when interstellar came out. That's just a good movie. Yeah, I was really just a good movie. I was really just inspired by that movie and right after I watched it I went straight to the bookstore and bought like four books on physics and was like really deep into the mathematics of it all

and just like the inner workings of the physical world. And when you really go deep into that, any like deep scientist will tell you that things become a little yeah, things become a little weird. And it's not very steeped in like the materialistic idea that the West has been so trained to kind of go in that direction. So belief is a very interesting word to use. I'm really into like lived experience. And I feel like sometimes the anecdotal side of things can be kind of pushed to the side.

which I don't really think makes any sense to me. I feel like just like any other animal who's alive, you know, we have eyes and ears and a heart and a mind that can experience the world around us. And I don't think that we should, like, throw that to the side, like it doesn't matter. Right. So belief is a very interesting word.

I love, though. I love hearing that you're a big reader and that you love the science side of it too because for so long I think people, or many people have this false assumption that, like, science and spirituality, can't exist together. Exactly.

I find they go like this. Yes. Yes. And if you really start going deep, you're like, wow, this is so beautiful. And there's something science can't explain yet. 100%. I love listening. Shout out to Neil deGrasse Tyson.

I love listening to his podcast as well. And he's had many amazing scientists on his podcast talking about, like, the frontiers of physics. It's starting to become very difficult because... the truths that we're trying to uncover. It seems like nature is like trying to like, it seems like nature is trying to like hide what the inner workings really are. And that's really interesting to me. Maybe not hide it, but conceal it through different, like different ways of expressing itself.

Yeah. In physics, I've heard a lot of physicists being like a little bit tiffed about like, Like we've been pretty much asking the same questions for a really long time and trying to get to another level. But with this framework, with this materialistic framework that we're using, I have a hunch that we're going to have to kind of switch that a little bit or pivot a little bit on that. Well, and I love that you brought up the anecdotal thing because for years, for centuries, for thousands of years, people understood the world by observing it. Exactly. And we're working in the big C-Sitin 3 right now. which is looking at like rebirth and what happens after life.

And one of the big deep dives we went into, like through the anthropology record of cultures around the world who didn't believe in rebirth or reincarnation as a belief. Yeah. They would see as people came back birth marks on the body of the young one that looked like X, Y, Z uncle who just died. And they had the same personality. And then the little boys born talking about this memory and that memory. Things that the little boys shouldn't know. No, right. Yeah.

Even like I was reading about the Dogon tribe in Africa and like how like scientists have gone deep into these caves that are like so like thousands of years old. Yeah. And there are star maps of like specifically the series A, series B star systems that like they, they, you can't see that with the naked eye. No. And these carvings or drawings were done way before anyone could look at the sky with the. telescope or any kind of technological invention that would let you be able to see how this star system actually is. It's so wild.

It's so wild. I think we have a lot to learn from indigenous cultures. Yes. And even like specific quote unquote myths or stories that indigenous cultures have, it's very interesting that sometimes they really line up. Like, it's not explaining specifically the scientific thing. Right. But when you look at the way the story is and the specific points, it lines up really intricately with, like, ecological systems.

Like the Great Flood. Yes. That's talked about in so many world religions. Yes. And the ice. Cap's melt. The Ice Age was over. And there was a huge great flood.

The whole younger dry-ass period and all of that. I find it, I think we're moving. towards a more holistic way of thinking about our past, which hopefully is going to inform how we perceive our future and how we create new systems of understanding our life around us. And that's why I love the telepathy tapes, and I love what you have done and what you do, because I feel like it's a great vehicle towards like going in that future direction of like, No, like we kind of need to like reinvent the way that we see the world as human beings. Yes.

100%. Yeah. Okay. So you've really explored a lot. I mean, really, you're a brilliant mind. Thank you. So you are like the convergence of like everything that's really beautifully human. Thank you so much.

Oh, my God. That's true. We have to wrap up. But how can people find you? Like where do you want them to find you the most? I am going to be playing some shows. I just put out an album called The Thread That's Talk on the Hill is on that album

Yeah, I'm gonna be around, you know So you're going on tour though I'm gonna be going on tour It's not it's not planned just yet Okay But I'm in the working You got a website though? I do have a website, willowsmith.com

I have a Instagram Willowsmith Um Yeah, I'm just around you know, doing my little music thing. All right. They'll come find you. And I love Talk on the Hill.

Thank you for writing it. And I can't wait for you to play it live and to hear the responses. Have people liked the song? Oh, my goodness, yes. And not many people know what it's about. You know what I mean? They just think it's like a fun summer jam. Yeah.

Which is awesome. But then when they realize like, oh, wow, there's like a whole, you know, I hope I can bring people into this beautiful world of what's possible. Yeah. That you have so graciously just put so much work into bringing to the world. So I'm very grateful for you as well. Thank you. Thank you.

That's it for this episode of the Talk Tracks. But new episodes will be released every Wednesday. So stay tuned as we work to unravel all the threads, even the veiled ones, that knit together are reality. And please remember to stay kind, stay curious, and that being a true skeptic requires an open mind. To dive in deeper, subscribe to our backstage pass by Vibbiz. visiting our website. With it, you'll unlock access to bonus content like telepathy tests, ask me anything interviews with myself and guests. You'll be able to enjoy the podcast ad-free, connect with other members on our telepathy tribe discord, and hear and see exclusive content

from the telepathy tapes vault. Visit our website at the telepathy tapes.com for more info on how to subscribe to our backstage pass. Thank you to my amazing collaborators. Producers Catherine Ellis and Selena Kennedy. Technical directing audio mix and finishing by Jeremy Cole. and closing music by Elizabeth P.W. And original logo and cover art by Ben Condora Design. I'm Kai Dickens, your executive producer, writer, and host. Hey, everyone is Kai. Mark your calendars for October 7th,

because season three of the telephthy tapes, the reincarnation records is coming. If season one set out to explore whether or not consciousness extends beyond the brain, this season will explore whether or not consciousness survives death. I don't think a three-year-old is supposed to be having nightmares about how they died in a fiery plane crash. For millennia,

Young children have reported something extraordinary. They remember their names. They remember places. Oftentimes the kids remember how they died and was something traumatic. And in some cases, these memories can be verified. Allowing kids to talk about it is very important. Past life memories can heal. What if memory doesn't begin at birth?

What if some part of us arrives already carrying a story? If reincarnation is real, I don't think we're supposed to remember. This season, we step into one of the most controversial and quietly persistent ideas in human history. Reincarnation. We are taught from a very early age in the Judeo-Christian culture that reincarnation doesn't exist.

It's not an escape from the demands of religion. We'll meet people who speak with striking clarity about other lives and the researchers around the world who've spent decades studying these cases. Once you observe this in a child and the evidence is very compelling, you have to open up to another explanation.

for what is going on. Welcome to the reincarnation records. The reincarnation records will drop on October 7th on the telepathy tape's main feed. Expect your paradigm to be shattered once again.