The Tim Dillon Show - 153: 153 - Gavin McInnes

Episode Date: June 23, 2019

Tim has a conversation with Gavin McInnes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And now, Tim Dillon is going to hell! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Tim Dillon is going to hell, this is Tim Dillon. We're doing an episode today that not everybody is going to love. I think there might be some people that have a negative reaction to this episode. And understandably so, you know, perhaps. I think the reaction of the person might be negative and that's understandable, but I don't think the reaction to the conversation will be negative. This is somebody that I've wanted to have on for a while because I have a personal history with this person.

This person has done many things in his career. He's a co-founder of Vice. He's had many different shows. And I think many of you know who I'm talking about and it is Gavin McInnes. And Gavin, for those of you who don't know, had a show that a lot of comedians went on. He had hour-long conversations with comedians you would know, comedians that were left-wing, comedians that were, you know, more right-wing. And Gavin was a frequent guest on Red Eye and a lot of comedians would go on Red Eye

and we would all sit there and yuck it up with Gavin. You know Gavin has had many differences of opinion with comics and they were all done in a respectful way. And my personal story with Gavin is that I did a show a few times and I think he was the one who got me on Red Eye, which was a show that Tom Shalu hosted on Fox News and it was at 3 a.m. Not the highest rated show on the network, clearly, but it was a show where a lot of comedians would go on and have fun and talk shit and basically there was this weird intersection of comedy and politics and culture and that's where Gavin lived. I mean Gavin was a funny guy. He was kind of a troll and he was, you know, a lot of the things he would do had a performative aspect.

And of course a lot of people know the story, you know, about the Proud Boys which was, you know, in some people's mind and I think in Gavin's mind it was, you know, he would tell you it was a harmless men's club and some other people might tell you it's a violent gang and maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle and we'll let him tell you that. But for me the story is about a guy who co-founded a large media company, a billion dollar media company, Vice and a liberal media company and then now is banned from many if not all social media platforms. I think it's an interesting story. That's an interesting trajectory for a career to take. And to me knowing Gavin not well but knowing him, you know, somewhat socially, it was an interesting conversation

to get into how that happened and again there's going to be a lot of people that criticize my choice to have him on, you're giving somebody a platform, blah, blah, blah, you've heard all these arguments before. And, you know, Gavin still has a podcast, he's on YouTube, he's somebody that I think has a story and that that story in and of itself is fascinating. You may hate him, you may think he's dangerous, you may think that the Proud Boys are a violent organization, you might think that he is a net negative on public discourse and you might think that he should be completely shut out of every outlet. He shouldn't be able to speak but the way that I think about it is that if your fear is violence and you want a world that is less violent, you can't shut down all the avenues to communication.

That's something that I believe, that's something that I think people that I respect believe, which is why Joe Rogan has had certain people on because he's having conversations with people and Gavin has said things that I would absolutely disagree with and I would absolutely call him out and go, that's bullshit and we could have a debate about it. But I don't think simply that him uttering any of those things makes me feel unsafe. I don't believe that that is a good way to think about having conversations and that words and conversations necessarily make people unsafe. I think that actions make people unsafe and that's why we have laws,

that we have laws that protect people and that's why you have to defend the rights of people you disagree with and the rights of people that you feel their ideas are dangerous. That's the reality. Nazis have a right to speak, the KKK has a right to speak, the Supreme Court ruled on those cases, not because they like Nazis but because the right to speak is a fundamental right and those people have ideas that are dangerous. But Gavin's more interesting than that. I think there's a much more of a gray area here

and I know that we're very uncomfortable living in a gray area but if I'm going to do a show where I talk to people, I'm going to have to live in that gray area to an extent and I'm going to have to make personal choices and live by them and the gray area is where comedy comes from, okay? Great comedy doesn't come from rigid fundamentalist thinking, just doesn't. Neither do great conversations and great discussion. You have to be open to talking to people

and that gray area is, I think, something that needs to be explored and I don't think we should push people into black and white. We shouldn't put people in boxes. By the way, this is not to say that I agree with any of the decisions that Gavin has made and this is not to say that he doesn't regret a lot of those decisions but I feel the same way about Gavin that I feel about Alex Jones and that I feel about lots of different people who have said things that I may consider to be abhorrent or maybe have inspired actions

that I disagree with directly or indirectly. I believe that there's probably a lot more of a gray area than a lot of people are willing to concede or admit and so it's in the spirit of that and it's in the spirit of somebody who makes a living. I make my living speaking into a microphone whether it's on a stage or while doing a podcast. That is how I make my living.

I can never cheer for the deplatforming of people and I can never cheer for the silencing of people. That's not in me. I was on debate team in college and I loved arguing with people and that was part of what I thought the strength of this country was was that you could do those things. I just can't and I may think that somebody is just completely helpless

meaning that I can't reach them, that logic and argument has completely failed but at that point you have to really make a decision and the decision is you're living in a country with a lot of people that are never going to see eye to eye with you. Are you going to coerce them forcefully, physically, violently to agree with you or are you going to adopt some form of live and let live? Fundamentalist Christians don't think that gay people should get married or adopt kids or anything like that.

Am I going to spend the rest of my life converting everybody who believes those things? Am I going to spend the rest of my life chasing those people down, harassing them, making sure they can't earn a living, making sure that they shouldn't be able to have a business? Is it a good use of my time on planet Earth? Is it a good use of anyone's time? And by the way, this isn't to minimize the violence clashes or whatever that the Proud Boys have been involved in. I'm not claiming to have any information about that that is definitive.

I've said all groups suck. I wouldn't want to be in any type of club and I certainly wouldn't want to be in a club while you're running around getting in violent altercations with people that disagree with you politically. It's completely ridiculous. That being said, I think this podcast has been a conversation with somebody that I knew and I had a personal relationship with, never close. We didn't know each other that well, but he always treated me with respect to the show and he said some crazy fucking things.

Some of them were very funny. Some of them were just very crazy. And that person I've seen spiral out of control and a lot of the events around him seem to spiral out of control. And I wonder how much control he had over some of them and maybe he had more than I thought. I don't know. But watching it and then watching people basically decide that this guy is Hitler and this guy should never have a platform and this guy should never be listened to and there's no curiosity about what happened and how it happened

and how this guy that would sit down and talk to comedians and goof around on red eye became public enemy number one. The FBI watched this and I think they took them off. They reclassified the Proud Boys. I don't really know, but watching this stuff happen and watching this unfold has been kind of wild to me and I kind of had a front row seat for a lot of it, not for a lot of the events that I'm describing but for the very beginning, just meeting Gavin, knowing I'm going on the show along with a lot of other comedians and then just sitting back and being plugged into the climate that we live in

and watching people get de-platformed and watching what's happened to Gavin and watching the whole situation kind of spiral out of control. And you can make your own decision on Gavin and you can make your own decision on what he's saying. If you find him to be truthful or if you... My goal is not to be like, this is a sympathetic character, it's not to be, you know, this is not a PR thing but I just want to have a conversation with a guy that I kind of knew about how things got so crazy. So if you're mad at me about that, I don't know what to tell you. This is really... This is the podcast.

We've had a lot of people on the show, some of them I agree with, some of them I don't but everybody I've had on the show, I find that it's either been entertaining or it's been interesting and if you don't live a little bit in those gray areas as a performer or as somebody who communicates I don't know what you're going to do. I don't know what kind of show you're going to have if you're only going to have people on that are approved by the Twitter mob or by mainstream media outlets if you're just going to talk to those people, you know, you're going to have a certain kind of show but that's never the show that I wanted to do and those are the stories that have never really interested me. These are the stories that interest me and so we're going to have this conversation.

No, we're not. I'm not at home. Oh, good. You're in an undisclosed location. Yes. Like Dick Cheney. Yes. How are you doing? Because I know that you've had a lot of... You've been... You're off all these things and it's got to be for a guy like you who this is your whole career, this is what you did for a living for years is communicate with people. Is this driving you nuts?

You know, I started this... I started Vice in 1994. I've been doing this a long time and I've seen all these ups and downs and I remember, you know, the PMRC when it was all about rock and roll and twisted sister are going to ruin our kids. So this is just one of the many waves that I've seen come and go but, you know, for a few years before Twitter I didn't have Twitter and I did okay. It's frustrating on a different level though. It's frustrating that the culture has come to this. Yeah. And that's irritating. I mean, I got my new site out now, freespeech.tv. And Twitter... The annoying thing about not being on Twitter is not not being on Twitter.

It's that someone is controlling the conversation and deciding who gets to say what and how they can say it and that's what's disturbing. It's more like the concept. It's not the actual day-to-day or me personally. I just don't like it as an American. And I think you more than most people unfortunately are unable to defend yourself against some of the things that are said about you because I have arguments with people about you and they say things like Nazi and white supremacists and I'm like, that's never been my experience with this guy ever. And I don't know... Listen, I'm sure that we disagree on things, whatever, but the idea that you're some kind of Nazi or that you're some kind of white supremacist or that you hate gay people or whatever...

None of that is anybody's experience that knows you personally or that has been on your show, but yet now that you have no way to communicate with people, they can kind of say those things about you and you are now... You can't even respond. Yeah, I think that's the plan. The plan is... It all comes back to Trump at the end of the day. I think that the left realized they don't have any candidates, they don't have any policies, they should go on infrastructure and healthcare or something, you know, real, but that probably didn't work well with the kids.

So they go, okay, let's be radical, radical Muslims in the White House and Cortez saying no more fossil fuels and abortion the day a baby's born. Let's just go fucking all out because Trump won and he went all out. See, they're basically on the assumption that Trump won by being a Nazi and they go, okay, they'll all be the anti-Nazi, but they're wrong about Trump won because normal people, working class people can identify with him. He's not fucking Nazi dummies. So they put all their eggs on this basket based on a wrong assumption. Yeah, no, it's the wrong assumption is everybody... We saw with comedians, comedians that worked the road knew Trump was going to win. I would go on the road and I would talk to people. And these people aren't white supremacists, they fucking live in Ohio and they're pissed

and the factory they worked at is gone and their kids are addicted to opioids and there's all kinds of problems and they're concerned about immigration and they felt like they didn't have a voice and the comics that were on the road knew that and the comics that were in writers rooms in New York and LA that only hung out with really Ivy League millionaires, to be honest, that's who's in those writing rooms, were shocked and those are the people that when Trump won were throwing tantrums and crying and laying on the floor of NBC and I mean, but we all knew it was was going to happen. What do you and most people don't really know that I think the Proud Boys was like a satirical thing that you did and it was like a men's club that was based on a joke, really.

And it was it was a funny thing the way that it was first conceived. Yeah, it still is right. It's like it hasn't occurred to anyone that there's some humor involved that someone who's patriotic and loves Trump could also have a sense of humor. I mean, they have an offshoot called the Margarita boys wear shirts and only drink Margaritas and they're like the sinister history of Margaritas or they'll always twist it that way. And sorry to finish what I said about the Trump Nazi thing I got knocked off track because technology is confusing me but here's an analogy, right? Tim Dillon I'm competing with Tim Dillon for this local comedy thing. Tim Dillon is doing really well. He got where he is today because he's a very effeminate gay who wears a tutu and is always dancing around and lisping and he's always got his hands like hey, girl.

So I'm going to compete with him by saying I hate fags and I'm the anti gay guy, right? And then people start saying actually that's not Tim's deal at all. He doesn't, he's not remotely effeminate and I go I know I'll just make it impossible for anyone to say that and to defend and then I'll just keep going with this gay suck thing and based on this false assumption that Tim's doing well because he's a raging queen and that's what they're doing with Trump. They go Trump's a Nazi. All right, we're going to be the anti Nazi and then people go yeah, we're not that we're Ohio people or we're Gavin and they go cut him off, cut him off and cut him off. I need to keep pushing this Nazi thing if I'm going to win the election.

So I think the rest of the country is sitting there going I've met Tim, he doesn't wear tutus. What are you talking about? Actually no one wears tutus. What are you talking about? And they go shut up, band, you're banned. You stop talking about tutus, okay? And then they have signs on their lungs that say tutus have no home here. And you're like what fucking tutus? We were all over Connecticut shooting a sketch today. And there's all these signs with hate has no home here and you're like what the fuck are you talking about? Does rape have no home here? What hate? You don't allow clan rallies in your house? Congrats. Wow, what a radical stance.

Do you see though that like there are, I think, you know, certain parts of the right that are really invested in, and by the way, also on the left, that are really invested in like purely racialized stuff, which is, you see it on the far right, and you see it on the far left salon and slate, every article is white men sucked, everything that's ever been done wrong in history comes from the colonial era of white guys. You see it, but you do see that there are some of those guys on the right where it's like all about race. But if you look at a photo of the Proud Boys, they're not white. Like I showed this photo as a dinner the other night in Los Angeles. I took a photo and said these are the Proud Boys that you guys call white supremacists. They're not white.

So if I can continue with this analogy, they just go Tim is hiding his tutu in his pants. It's tucked in there like the Daily Beast. Is that analogy you know you by the way? No, I love it. I think it's a good analogy. There was a the Daily Beast in an article and it was called Multiracial White Supremacy. And you go Jesus Christ, you guys just cannot get knocked off these rails. It's like this guy's pedophile really has never been near kids. He's married to a woman 10 years older than him.

The strange life of pedophiles where they will date a woman 10 years older and keep it bottled in. And then they go like well really black immigrants like from Africa are doing better than blacks here. Is it really such a white? Like why are Asians doing so well for such a racist country? Or whites are like seven on the ethnic as far as ethnic groups as far as success in America. Whites are numbers. You got Asians and you know Jews and everyone way above them. African immigrants, Lebanese all above them.

And then they go well it's not that tangent. It's in the air. It's latent. It's invisible. It's a microaggression. You go you sound like a weird Puritan from the founding fathers like the pilgrims. You sound like a weird humorless pilgrim that hates blasphemy because to them it's a religion. And you hit them with all this logic and they just go the strange life or it's complicated or you know he's racist. He's married to a black woman. Some slave owners would bang their slaves and you're like what the you got to go back 150 years to find an example of your crazy theory.

But when we're all silenced we can't explain that. So they just go yeah whatever and by the way when people say bad shit about me to you just say he didn't say that. Because they'll pull up some quote and it'll be from some liberal source like the SPLC or Huffington Post. And these are what your enemies think of you. So of course they're going to take jokes out of context and of course they're going to have a bias. If you ask the Red Sox fans about the Yankees you're going to hear all this horrible shit and go the Yankees are the worst shittiest most evil team in the history of baseball. They don't watch the Yankees play. They just hear the Red Sox version.

Yeah the new thing now that a lot of people do is they say well this or that person is anti trans. Now anti trans is like this you know it's this description of somebody and then you go well what do you mean by anti trans. Like do I believe that there are 400 genders. No I don't believe that. I believe that biology and gender are linked. That's you know and by the way not only me that's hundreds of years of science. And also I look at a lot of what's going on when I see like this kid this Desmond the amazing kid who's dancing on a bar and men are throwing money at him. I'm like this seems to be child abuse.

I'm a gay guy and I'm deeply uncomfortable with some of what's going on where I look at this stuff and I go and I talk to older gay people. Some of them are terrified because they can't say anything because they'll lose their job or they work in the entertainment business. But there's a lot of people that are uncomfortable and the whole thing is like the trans thing of like gender not not being informed by biology flies in the face of the gay thing immediately. Because if you're a gay guy and you're attracted to a dude if a woman says I'm a man it doesn't matter. It's like I said the other night is like if I identified as thin if you want an in shape person and I say I identify as a guy who does triathletes but you go it doesn't matter. It's there's a biological facts that fly in the face of what you're saying. So one of the things that people will say about you as I go well Gavin is anti trans and I'm like well it's not just a anti or pro thing it's a deeply complicated issue. I was like I don't think Gavin cares what private people do in in their homes or whatever but I think yeah I don't think Gavin's going to be forgiving hormones to kids but neither am I and neither are a lot of people that I talk to.

Is that because that seems to be trans seems to be the new thing it's the new one that seems to be the new litmus test. Yeah I don't know I think they might be abandoning trans. I think they realized they got into bed with mentally ill gays and they went you guys are not making the greatest allies you're fucking weird so they're moving on. Yeah who's next. And with just anyone who's I think women and people of color like that you see sure to say the future is female and the left is now saying if you're a white male white straight male don't run for office we don't need you. You're done. So they've seemed to have focused even Martin Luther King like he didn't focus on identity politics enough. And they're sort of like fuck him.

This is a deal it's about being a person of color woman or a gay and trans I don't think trans panned out for them but to get back to the trans thing. What I wrote an article about five years ago called a transphobia is perfectly natural. And what I was saying is you're at Thanksgiving. Your dad shows up. He's Caitlyn Jenner. He's dating you know Caitlyn Jenner's new girlfriend is like this dude named Sophia who just became trans and used to be like a Ben Shapiro type of kid. And he's about 21. And he looks like Jar Jar Binks in drag.

So because of his fucking weird lips. So your dad comes in he's like hi everyone I'm a lady. And he's with this 22 year old dumbfounded Jar Jar Binks just going hi I'm a lady too we're in love. And the idea that your whole family is going to not be crying at the Thanksgiving dinner and just be going hey what's up Katie hi. And it's just a fucking lie. If your brother shows up with tits at Christmas you're not going to be like hey Katie what's going on. You're kidding yourself if you're going to do that and God forbid they should get a vagina. Well my whole attitude on it is like listen if you're an adult and you want to transition good for you.

I don't I don't know the numbers of people that either detransition because there's supposedly numbers that are pretty striking of people that are like. I don't know any of that but if you're an adult and you want to do that what you know if you feel if that makes you happier as a person good. But to me the problem is you cannot give children hormones to block puberty because now we're like this is fucking insane. And I get in trouble for saying that and people don't like that I'm saying that but I really feel that by screwing up a child's development it's sick. Yeah Tim that's easy though that's easy. To say that we shouldn't give children hormones and we shouldn't have Desmond the amazing dancing at a gay bar at 2 in the morning where they're putting money in his pants. And he shouldn't be on a podcast with Michael Eilig who just did 20 years for dismembering his meth dealer. And he's that Desmond is acting kind of catatonic in front of a painting that says Ro Hipnall which is a date rape drug.

None of that should be happened but I think that's pretty simple it's pretty easy. As far as the adult thing goes you know what I bet there's like 17 people in America that would be better off with this exchange. Not a thousand thousand doing here's another thing their suicide rate is off the fucking charts it's worse than Jews in 1943 in Germany. They have a higher suicide rate than that particular demographic. Why would why would Jews killing themselves in 1943 wasn't somebody doing that for them. Because it was a horrific time they lost their family and their children were just killed and they're losing their fucking. I think if a country went to the trouble to exterminate a race of people I think it's pretty inconsiderate to kill yourself. See you can't make jokes like that anymore.

I can't. I'm so in trouble already for this podcast I figure who gives a fuck. But here's the thing I say about the adult trans thing because I hope the kids trans thing is a given. The adult trans thing is look if it has to happen and they're suicidal if they don't do it blah blah blah okay fine. But when we encourage it what we're doing is taking normal gays and making them do really serious permanent things to their body that they then become suicidal. Because a lot of them they have problems like they're bipolar and they're depressed they think it's all because of this penis or it's all because of these tits. And then they make the operation and they go holy fuck I'm still depressed I'm still bipolar it didn't fix it and they kill themselves. So we have to stop encouraging someone to go into basically a demographic where they're Jews in 1943 like why are you sending all these gays with troubles into the death camps.

That's what you're really doing. And there's these these radicals in Britain that they're called terfs trans exclusionary radical feminists. And their whole thing is like why you have the British why you have in young lesbians cut their breasts off sever their breasts. Like try being a gay for a while and then get back to me. If you think you're a little woman and you're 13 and you want to do something permanent like take hormones because those make you infertile by the way. You just become 18 put on some red leather short shorts and dance around the West Village for a while. I have a feeling that's going to put out the fire and you're going to come back to me go thank God I did not lose this diamond gem between my legs. Right yeah I've always said like I I don't obviously I've I've spoken to trans people I know that there are people that feel better when they have the surgery I'm sure that that is something.

Let me ask you a question you're why in your estimation because you look at this issue a lot why are you you're very pro family. People having children I think you're right about that I think people should have children I don't know what people think they're going to do with their life if they don't have children. They are people not you know having kids specifically you know well to do people that live in cities are not really having kids or that they live in the suburbs or maybe they have one kid. Do you think it's the result of social engineering do you think it's just that people have gotten too comfortable. And what what is it that because a lot of people they took you know they took white genocide and all this stuff and it's like well no it's just people aren't having kids. You know white people are choosing to not have children or to have one child families. What is that is that just people that are yeah it's definitely conditioning it's definitely cool to shit on the family. Definitely in to turn women into colostomy bags for everyone's common they're just a booty call instead of a loving mom.

But there is a genetic component to it. It's part of God's design for some strange reason I haven't figured out but you see this like even in Mexico. Their GDP is going up they're getting a larger middle class their standard living is going up and as their standard of living goes up their birth rates going down. Same with Japan as they get more affluent their birth rate goes down. I don't know why he put this in the program but for some reason when we get to a certain level of wealth we cut down the kids it's a miserable thing to do. I mean I had three I started at 36 and I just look at them and think why did I wait so late and why did I I can't have more now my wife's ancient. But I I wish I had five what the fuck have I done. And I want to tell this to all these other young women that you know outside of this genetic trait that makes rich people not want to have kids because I don't know they're too rich.

I want to say you're going to regret it like that's the other thing with my whole crusade dev kids it's not like anything about demographics of the population or white genocide or any that shit. It's I'm forty eight and I see all these women go what have I done I see them spending twenty grand on fertility drugs. I was one of those people that said the world's overpopulated and we don't need kids we don't need more people. Then you look up the population on your computer and you see it go like it goes up. So you're not having kids is not making a fucking difference from you logging on to that website to you logging out there's been another hundred and fifty kids. What the fuck are you doing with your one grain of sand on the beach changing the world. So I just want people to stop regretting it because I see these older women these older single women and they're fucking miserable. They've got their cats they're in denial.

You know I saw this woman we were talking about on the show where she had adopted a chicken and you're not allowed to have a chicken in Manhattan. So she moved out to the countries where her and the chicken can be happy. I mean it's fucking and she's like he likes to read the paper with me and he likes to make the bed. Lady he's scratching your bed because he thinks it's the ground because he's trying to get seed because he's just instincts. That's not your child. It's a fucking chicken. When you look at what's happened to you started vice and I think it was a Canadian magazine in like the 90s late 90s 96 something like that. 94 94 when you look they've grown into this media empire but they're very big.

I think you would agree that they are you know clearly a left wing you know you know social justice you know conscious organization when you first started that magazine. Did you dream or imagine that it was going to be what it ended up being or was it because you guys were the counterculture when you started the magazine. You were offensive you were aggressive and crass and and now vice to me and you correct me if I'm wrong. They seem very mainstream. They don't really seem like their counterculture at all. What you say the proud boys started out as a joke and then it became sinister. No it started out as a joke a fun silly club. It still is.

It's the water buffaloes from the Flintstones but the media's perception when they're so desperate to show that right wing violence is a thing. They focus on that and they take it out of context and they just out and out lie. My buddy Jeff is going to prison to jail tomorrow for 30 days because he fought back against Antifa when they ambushed him and there's no victim. Antifa refuses to press charges but it's become politicized and he's going to spend 30 days in Rikers because of this bullshit propaganda and his lawyer saying look dude I've never seen this before. The guy's a cop sorry the guy's dad's a cop 35 years in the force. He's never seen it before and he goes something you pissed off the wrong person and this trial makes no sense. I don't even want to go to trial because the facts aren't making any impact here. This isn't about that but yeah vice is very different though.

So the proud boys have stayed the same but the perception them change on October 12 same with my life by the way. Things are very normal up till October 12th where someone flicked a switch when I did this talk at the Manhattan Republican Club the same night that that guy got in a fight and is now going to prison tomorrow. Sorry jail prison is more than a year. Do you think that person do you think that person had flipped a switch. If you had to guess do you think that that person or group of people had it out for you were they waiting with a with a looking for the the opportunity to knock you off all these social media. Someone high up at the DNC said look the midterms are coming up we're known as unhinged and violent we have to shake that rapper we're going to lose. And then two weeks before I had my talk they said put all the eggs in that basket get a fight going. We need some sort of violence event and they were picking fights are attacking people are getting arrested all day they vandalize the venue before that I mean there was so much shit going on before and I've talked to that club a million times.

And there's never any problem but this night it was like banners and flags and and that when the police disperse the group they ran around the block and then jump these proud boys who are on their way to the train to go home. You think like antifuzz taking orders from the DNC. Yes that's been well documented. The anti are the are the paramilitary wing of the DNC. They're they're they're they're shock troops. And it's funny because the DNC couldn't give less of a shit about them like they'll hire them a good lawyer occasionally but at Mike Sernovich is a night for freedom and Tifa showed up and got it in their heads that there was Nazis everywhere. Some old Jewish guys leaving the event they jump on him start strangling him. He has goes into cardiac arrest the cops come up they start fighting the cops the dude who did this.

He's going to go away for 15 years. Again this goes back to your two two. It's all based on a myth. So people are going to jail all over the place for this fucking lie. But anyway vice fully different thing vice I think retained because I controlled all the content until the day I left in 2008. And I think it maintained that edge. In fact I had all kinds of rules like the sales team can't be on the same side of the office as the content. They have to always be adversarial and not get along because that's selling out is when they the average advertising gets in bed with editorial.

The day I changed the sales team took over and I believe they went SJW because there is no dollar like the babysitter dollar. There's no money like girls 14 to 20. So whatever they believe in and what do they believe in total and utter or shit about fucking gender. Come milkshakes and why some pedophiles are not bad people and you shouldn't judge them and why all guys are jerks. I mean all this white male stuff is really just like guys are jerks you guys. It's like caddy 16 year olds. Now you how has this taken a toll on. I know that you probably do a lot to just keep you know to keep to normalize everything that's going on but like it's just taking a toll on your wife.

And you know I mean like this whole idea that you know hate is no home and people are putting these signs on your lawn. Is your wife ever like what the fuck did we sign up for. Did she ever wish that you're yeah it was it was really bad for a while but I've always been trying to red pillar. She's voted for Hillary. She's pro-choice tons of frustrating stuff. And this is amazing. This is when people talk about you and they talk about you like you and you're married to a woman who's not white. Who's a Native American and she voted for Hillary and she's pro-choice.

Yeah. And I you know I argued with her so much during the election. I was like look the country's going in a direction and you're we're choosing two different directions. If we were all going to move somewhere we'd all have to agree to move to the same place. Are we all going to move to Colorado. OK. I can't move to Colorado and then you're over in Detroit. Which is where you're headed by the way with this terrible decision. But I couldn't change your mind. But when I was getting pilloried everyone was so shitty and they were being such cunts about it that it converted her.

Now she's not pro-Trump by any means but she's totally lost faith in the left. Because they terrorized her and her parents and my parents and my brother. Like it was just fucking insane. They put posters all over my kids school calling me a Nazi. They put a banner over the highway that leads to my town. There was they would harass people who did business with me bankrupt them harass bars harass the landlord of the bar where I had a beer. And I just said to everyone I got on this message board that the locals use and I said come to my house you have a problem with me. Discuss it. Tell me the thing I said and about 15 cool people came by.

I mean the trouble with that kind of thing is you're at war with the incurious and the incurious are never going to come by and ask you. They want their little villain. It's a silly little game for them. It's fashion. But what about this argument that I don't put any credence in this argument. But this argument that people go and they find you and then they end up down the line at David Duke because this is the argument that people make. And it's a stupid argument because it's like it's the ultimate slippery slope argument. But a lot of people say they they get in the door through people that are more reasonable and then they they're out the door and they end up with David Duke and Holocaust denial and all of that stuff. Yeah well if you check out the Klan and a lot of you know serious racist in the south and you check the record collection I'm sure you'll find a lot of country music. So we should outlaw country outlaw outlaw country especially because that seems prominent in their record collection.

We should also outlaw marijuana because it's a gateway drug and it could lead to heroin and and more serious. Did you see that front page of the Times on the weekend. It was like YouTubers lead to the radicalization of young man. Yeah that's what I'm talking about. And he's like I was looking at Gavin McInnes or whatever videos. And then the next thing you know I was looking at harder stuff like Jared Taylor and and shit like that. And then the algorithm pointed me to this liberal woman who was mocking them. And now I'm a liberal and you're reading going wait a minute this article contradicts itself.

The smoking gun here is that the algorithm corrupted you but you just said the algorithm brought you to liberal. And now you're a liberal. So he hammered out all these ideas. And now he's a normal liberal dude. What is the point of this article and it's cited like a Muslim woman as one of the things that radicalized him. He was radical for like an hour or two and he admitted he was never all right. And then he admitted he's watching this Muslim immigrants videos and she herself spoke out about the article and said wait a minute. I made someone hate Muslim immigrants so I made a video that made someone hate me.

Are my videos that shitty that you come away from the going I hate that bitch. I mean it was yeah so so half fast. And here's the other thing so that a that isn't true but B say it was true. What's the solution that you hide ideas. Oh these ideas are dangerous ideas are never dangerous. If you want to present a long argument to me on why babies are sexy go fucking nuts. And I will point out that you're insane. I can give you a million reasons why babies are not sexual but it's not it's not a dangerous idea.

It's a disgusting notion obviously and if the act is ever carried out that person should be executed. But this idea that there's these dangerous ideas and dangerous words that's Victorian England. That's the new Puritans. That's the pilgrims I'm talking about where they say don't go over there. Don't go into that layer. It's the danger layer. And all you end up doing to is making us more salacious and interesting. Invite you think the when you look at what's happening in Europe and you have you have a lot of migration.

You have a lot. You have the refugee crisis. You have all of these things that are kind of deeply upsetting the dynamics of those societies. And then you have to a lesser degree some of that happening in America. But it's nowhere near or near one. We have one percent Muslim population. Now within that population and liberals don't get this word. There's a disproportionate number of radicals.

I mean one in four American Muslim men between the ages of 18 and 24 think suicide bombing is sometimes are often justified. That's really bad. And there's this bullshit stat that's going around that says what's the premises commit as much more terrorism than Muslims. And then you look at their stats and they include things like some redneck shoots another redneck and they happen to be in the Klan. Oh that's that's racist terrorism. No it's not. And they treat the pulse nightclub shooting in the West Side Highway and all this other stuff as one incident. But even by their crazy stats just like the New York Times article you pile them up and it's like 10 versus nine.

You go wait a minute. You said that punch a Nazi and Trump's a Nazi and half the country are Nazis. So we got 50 percent of the population responsible for the same amount of terror as one point one percent. So even by your crazy standards these people seem to not be blending in as well as say Sikhs and Urdu's and Mexicans and Armenians and Turks and all these other cultures. Lebanese that just seem to figure it out after a generation. I think Muslims tend to get more radical as they show up in like a circle. Others grew up pretty normal. Well these are not brothers.

There's all kinds of things there and there's all kinds of problems in terms of like the FBI knew who they were and they were potentially working. The FBI might have recruited them as informants or whatever. I mean who knows. There's a lot that is very strange. Why do the ruling class in your estimation of have. Why did this decision get made where they were just going to go. All right everything's going to be open borders and the sacrifices that are made when you absorb these populations because a lot of it forget race or religion. A lot of it's just economic.

The idea that like wealthy people love to have landscapers and people doing their nails and tutors and things like that. And they can you can pay them anything they want. They can kind of abuse them. Is that what you think it ultimately is. Do you think the ruling class just doesn't care. They live in gated communities. They don't need any you know in terms of resources. They're not on the lower end of the spectrum.

They don't they're not utilizing the types of government programs. They're not in hospital waiting rooms that are crowded. Their kids go to private schools. Is that basically what it is. They just are no longer invested in this idea of a country. Is that what it is and is that what it is in Europe too where they just don't. They don't look at this and go well this is a country where everybody has to make sacrifices. They just go we're benefiting from this you know low wage labor and that everyone else can fuck themselves.

Yeah it's just fashion. I mean this has always been the case with the aristocrats. Oh the hooloos are killing the zooloos and attacking the hooloos and oh my heart bleeds for Africa. It's horrible what's happening over there. We're not even going to Zimbabwe for some safari this year. That's how bad it is. I love how you call it. I love how you call it fashion because like there is some real truth to the idea that the majority of people I meet don't know even what they're saying.

Like especially in Los Angeles you'll have lunch with people and they're eating avocado. The other day I was having avocado toast. It's a beautiful day. It's in Los Angeles. This guy pulls up. He's got a you know CLS Mercedes and we sit down and the woman's there and she just got out of a beautiful place. You just got out of a beautiful BMW and she goes you know I never knew what it was like to live in a country that was really fascist but now I do. And then she called the waiter over and ordered.

She goes do they have the lobster Benedict. And I said these people are out of their fucking mind. They don't even know what they're saying. They don't even know where they are. Fascism is you would be killed for saying what you just said lady. We'd all be dead. That's the other funny thing too about all this pro-communist shit is you realize that you're the first to go. The entertainers, the creative types, the journalists, anyone who has anything to say you're all gone.

All the trades guys that you hate they're doing great. All the rich people they're fine too. They pay off the guards to not fucking abduct them. You're the one that's going to die dumbasses. Do you think this is just basically people that are like this is the fashion of the day? Here's proof. If someone's bitching my immigrant. We're a nation of immigrants.

They're separating families. You just go I kind of have this Jim Gaffigan thing right where I do this. Why does he like hot pockets? You say okay with the kids being separated. Okay you tell me what to do. A man and a kid come over the border. Let them go. Okay so we have no borders.

Well okay well then arrest them but don't separate them. So kids go to an adult holding cell? So you want kids in jail with other criminals? They're not criminals. Okay well we need a holding cell. So we have kids and we have no proof that's their actual kid. He could just be a trick. Or it's much simpler than that.

You just say how many legals are there in this country? Now the far left says it's like 12 to 15 million. The right says it's 30 million. But I'll take any answer in there. That'll be fine. I once got an answer 8 billion. And you realize wait a minute. You have never looked this up.

You don't give a shit about this. If they haven't looked it up it's fashion. Here's another test. They go Trump's such a race. I can't believe I'm a racist. And you go what exactly? What sentence? What did he say that's racist?

And they'll go they always say the exact same thing. They always go everything. And you go okay well then it'll be easy to choose one. Just give me one. I mean where do I even start? Basically everything. Okay. So I'll happily take one.

I don't know everything. I mean basically everything he says. And you look fuck you. You're wasting my time you poser. You don't think any of this is fucking true. He said things like the Mexican rape is stuff like that. I mean he's you know. Slow down.

Slow down. Why are you gay? He said they're not sending their best and he talked about a disproportionate number of rapists that are coming over the border illegally. The coyotes who take these women over about 80% of them are raped during this. Rape is part of the culture there. It's just it's a rape culture. It's literally a rape culture this border crossing thing.

So if you were to take a sample of the illegals who crossed the border illegally or a sample of Mexicans you're going to find way more rapists in the first sample of the guys who crossed the border. They are sending their rapists. They are sending criminals. That has been a tactic of Mexico. I think that rape is a part of Mexican culture. It might be a part of the culture of human trafficking and people crossing the border

and people preying on desperate people you know. But I don't know that it's a part of it and it all a disproportionate number of criminals including rapists are also coming over. Like don't you think if Canadians were getting raped as they crossed the border there'd be more indignation if it wasn't a normal thing. Not in Mexico but in that particular graphic that's crossing over. And the Mexican authorities have been very vocal about the fact that they want their bad guys to go up there.

It's a free prison. I don't have them in my society. You deal with my garbage. Right. Well I am pro-Canadians getting raped as they come into the country. I think that's they should have to before they get here. Just to chill them out. But are you disappointed with Trump at all?

I mean there's a lot of people on the right and Coulter famously who's like he's done nothing. He's employed his kids. The whole thing has basically become kind of a weird kleptocracy in a way. He's making money and they're doing business deals. But nobody seems that confident that the wall is not being built. Like do you look at this and go he's a fraud. He's a huckster.

We all got sold a bill of goods or do you look at it and go you know there's other extenuating circumstances for why he hasn't gotten any of this done. Where do you fall. Are you one of these guys who's like well I'm going to endorse Andrew Yang now or how do you feel. I still have faith but I and is right about just about everything that comes out of her mouth. I still have faith in the wall.

She's given up on the wall. She hates Jared Kushner. I couldn't agree more. That's something the left doesn't understand. My kids get mad magazine and they're very left wing and there's all this anti Ivanka anti Jared stuff in it. And they think it makes Trump people get mad. We fucking hate Ivanka.

Why is your daughter in the White House. We didn't vote for Hillary because we said it's just a good president's wife. Who's next is cousin and then the daughter of the guy we elected because we hate monarchies starts pulling in his fucking son-in-law and his stupid bitch daughter. What the fuck is she doing there. At least the boys he keeps them you know they can talk to the median stuff but he doesn't get them an extra be involved in the government that that that's not what we voted for. So on the downside I would say I'm disappointed in the wall.

I don't like the children getting involved on the upside. The economy is on fucking fire. It's never been black unemployment hasn't been this this perfect since slavery. Do you think he do you think Trump. I would laugh more it's when we laugh at the same time the sound disintegrates but I've been laughing at a lot of what you said. You don't laugh at that. No yes I'm laughing at everything you say but it's because we're forced to fucking communicate.

I feel like it's pirate radio like we're talking through fucking weird plastic cups and with that are attached through you know I mean it's great. How does this deep platforming thing end. Does it end where everybody just goes and sets up what you set up which is free speech TV we're talking a little bit about this before you came on the show. And I know Milo is with you too Milo Milo is it Milo or Milo. Number what's Milo Milo Milo's on there with you. And is this the future for everybody.

Do you think YouTube and Twitter and these things Facebook or whatever is the future this week because I talked to somebody and I said you know the future is just going to be people arguing and fighting for forever. And somebody said to me no all of these tech companies are trying to eliminate all that. The future is just going to be serene in a corporate sense in the way that like you know it's just basically you walk into a room and it's quiet and you can say things that are approved and they're shoving ads for products down your throat. But do you think you can save any of these tech companies or is this just over and everybody's

going to have to just get their own situation. Well that's a great question and neither of those outcomes are really good. I mean I can afford to have a big enough following that I can charge people and then make enough money that I can have a studio and you know invite guests and go do other stuff. That's what a fraction of one percent of the population what are the other people do. They can't charge $10 a month for someone to go hear them and to go have discussions with other people. So I don't think the everyone has a website is is such a great solution because not everyone can do that. And say you're some guy that nobody knows then you're you got like Bobby Doherty dot com and you're just

posting there and no one's seeing it. Whereas with Twitter you could comment on someone's thing and people would get to know you and it was much more democratic that way. And then the other solution where OK you can go on Twitter if you talk like you're in a corporate setting. That's not America. That's Soviet Russia that's North Korea that's China. You know how America was born. The Brits made the huge mistake of insisting that the Holy's Coast had all these different newspapers

and they insisted that there was dissent amongst the papers and there was a right wing paper and a left wing paper. And that was dumb because people started getting to know the truth and started figuring out stuff and eventually someone goes why are we even letting the Brits run us. Like why are we sending money to some king across the ocean. And then they had a revolution and they want to became America. So it naturally linked to the history of this country. The whole formation is it's about arguing. We're an arguing country.

We're a figuring it out. We're an open discussion free speech country and to take that away and have to speak in code like already. I heard today we always say clown world when we talk about how insane shit's gotten and how shoelaces are racist. And it's sexist open the door for someone. We go this is fucking is this peak clown world. Like my babysitter's boyfriend just dumped her because she works for me. So her dad has told her that you can't you can't date her anymore. Meanwhile by the way if my dad ever told me who I can date I would laugh in his face and tell me fuck off.

Right. But anyway that's clown world and other people now clown world is getting banned. So people have been just saying honk. And now honk has become like a hate speech word. So how North Korean is that you can't say clown world so you can say honk and then you can't say honk like the fucking OK symbol. Can you see any reason that someone would be justifiably banned like if they're doxing people if they're harassing or threatening. I mean there's gotta be some line and I agree with you. I don't I don't believe that you can ban somebody for the things they the opinions they express.

But if if somebody is you know going after somebody online and doxing them harassing them putting their private information out there. I mean there's there's there's gotta be some. Let's take a thousand people. Right. I'd say about 500 of them are to right of center 500 of them are to left of center. No no I wouldn't say that anymore as far as the general. No no no I would say that OK. But as far as the media goes though I would say the media is like 80 percent on the left including some radicals.

But so it's 500 500 as far as your average American right. I would say that out of that thousand there's maybe 30. No no no no out of that thousand there's maybe like seven shitty guys Holocaust denying Nazi Nazis. racial identity white genocide white power all that shit. Seven. Right. As far as the far left though with all this like white people need need to apply to jobs and all that stuff. I would say it's more like 200 of a lot.

But we keep talking with these seven people we keep talking with Heather higher and Charlottesville again and again and again. I when I started Street Carnage my old site I was like total free speech man. I don't give a fuck what you say anyone can get on here. And then I noticed there were these one or two dudes that would keep talking about Jews and the JQ the Jewish question and what really happened in the Holocaust and they were so fucking fixated on it. Like Mike Sernovich says he goes I'll talk about Jews like once a month or something. But I got to talk about other cultures too. You guys are obsessed and what those people do is that tiny percent of seven out of a thousand. They bomb everyone out.

They drag the conversation down. I think Twitter did have a Nazi problem a long time ago maybe like five years ago. And it was like the picture of the Shylock Jew like rubbing his hands together with the big schnaz that cartoon on every single person. And they successfully got rid of those guys. Great. I mean you can't not get rid of those guys. They are fucked in the head. They if it rains on their birthday the Jews did it.

The Jews dominate media that you know they don't talk about how the Jews dominate medicine or any other thing. They are consumed and they're fucking boring. So yes you do have to take care of those. But what the left is done is they said ooh that was successful. Let's use that same thing and say everyone's a Nazi. Everyone's a Nazi. Steven Crowder is a Nazi. Ben Shapiro was blamed for the shooting at that synagogue in Philly.

Someone was saying it's it's that kind of speech that leads to these synagogue shooting. Alan Dershowitz is called a Nazi. He's been totally ostracized by his friends. This guy has been fighting. He fought. He defended O.J. Simpson and he doesn't have the stigma that he gets now for defending Trump. And they've used that justifiable and true thing. Nazis are a pain in the ass.

You've got to kick them out of the party because they ruin everything. And they've dragged it into everyone now. Is it Nazi? And it's turned Twitter into that corporate thing you described where there's just no fucking fun. And you know you watch old TV or you watch Archie Bunker. And I honestly think there was less racism when people could be racist. Like at my boxing gym the way people talked to him is like look at this fucking Puerto Rican. Classic Puerto Rican.

You know you got a or you know they're we were ordering lunch today and and what was it. Yeah. One of the burgers was called Spanish beef and it's like that's when a Puerto Rican wants to kick your ass and you got to face him. That's how blacks and Hispanics. I think the big divide the big divide is working class people. Like you just said because when you talk to people that have only been in these situations in writers rooms or Ivy League schools.

They've never worked a shitty job. I've worked shitty jobs. I've worked with people from every country in the world in New York City on a tour bus where everybody would shit on each other and racial humor. One of my cousins loads a truck and they all shit on each other. And that's how people become friends when you work at a shitty job in a working class environment. But I think so here's my other question to you. If we do recognize that class plays a role in it.

Is there anything at all about a Casio Cortez that you like? Or is there anything at all about the people on the left that you like some of the people. Now obviously it's a tough question to ask you because you've been through the ringer with some crazy you know whatever. But is there anything on the left that you would say to yourself. I understand the anger and the frustration at a health care system that's completely broken. Because you know the plutocrat wealthy whether they are Republicans or Democrats and there's not doesn't seem to be a huge difference.

Yeah and culture used to call them the uniparty. I think you might have as well. Is there anything on the left that you could you could you could say. You know what that might make a little sense. Is there anything that a Casio Cortez does where you go. You know what she's right about that. No. She's a retard.

I think she's a pawn. I think she's basically her scripts are written for her. She does like she was talking the other day about overspending in the with the government in the military and she was eviscerating this group who had been charging things like $13,000 for a toilet seat and that kind of thing. This is an old scam that goes back to the 80s where you go through the invoices of some of these contractors working through the American military and you see like a $700 golden toilet.

I mean it goes it goes way back and it's an example of corruption. And I'm looking at her going hey Alexandria. Your whole ethos is the government needs more money and we have to pay the government more money and here you are listing how shitty they are with money how they'll spend $700 on a pen. I don't want you're right by the way that this company ripped off the government. I don't want the government having more money. So her and Ilhan Omar and the other one whose name I can't remember the Palestinian check

I think they're all radicals and they personify the Tutu where they go Trump was a Nazi so we're going to be the anti-nazis. Trump is not a Nazi so these three don't make any sense. But what's your name? Rashida Tlaib. We're going to pizza motherfucker. So I don't see any redeeming quality of them. I think they're really bad for actually they're good for Republicans because they're going

to get Trump reelected with all this stupid shit they say. But the left in general that's a totally different story. I mean Cornell West is is erudite erudite. He's a sophisticated thinker. He's a true genius and I noticed this with a lot of older liberals like the Berkeley 1960s guys who were carrying the free speech banners the classical liberals as they're called. And the ones that speak to the right like Jordan Peterson and Sargon of Akkad and Dave Rubin. But even on the normal liberal spectrum like Bill Maher, at least Bill Maher has the courage

to call out his side. So many people are about sports with this where they won't criticize their side. Bill Maher will say political correctness is killing us. And I think that there's a lot of normal liberals out there that we're not hearing of that go, hey Cortez could you shut up about the no fossil fuels and how the earth is going to be over in 15 years. You're making us look like imbeciles hysterical imbeciles. But Noam Chomsky, Mark Lamont Hill. I mean I get along with a lot of people on the left and that's kind of what I'm doing with this show.

I'm saying you all you hear about us is that we're Nazis and white supremacists. All we hear about you is that you're retarded children. Let's sit each other in a room. And what I find is people actually disagree on very few things once they all have the facts. Like I was arguing with Sarah Silverman the other day. And she's like you know there's a real war on women right now and you criticize feminism. And she talked about the rapist law in Alabama where a rapist will have parental rights after she's forced to have a child. And I'm like Sarah you don't talk to people on this side.

We hate that rapist law. We think that's fucking mental. That's very esoterical and as far as abortion being anti-women almost 50% of women in this country are pro-life. So it's not a woman-man thing. It's an ethical question about when the thing is alive. You know women aren't allowed to shoot people in the head and that's not taking away their choice. And I think the problem with her and a lot of little, and she's a great person by the way with a good heart and so are a lot of these annoying people. Like I used to be friends with Samantha Bee. You should see her with her kids.

She's the best mother ever. Super funny too. Like I'm going to call the cops just too many monkeys jumping on the bed. Quality people. David Cross when we used to hang out all the time when he was making tons of money at the time and he'd go on vacation and then make sure the money he spent on vacation. He also donated to Wounded Warrior Project. So the idea that all these liberals are stupid assholes is something I want to get over. And the idea that all right-wingers are Nazis is something that I want to disprove too.

I don't even believe in views. I remember it's at Fox News once and this black dude comes up and he's like, yo man, I don't an editor there. And he's like, I don't really agree with any of this shit you say, but I respect the fact that you have the balls to say it. And I'm like, dude, I don't have views. Give me a bunch of data and I'll come up with a general hypothesis based on this data. You show me a flaw with my data or you have different data. I'm changing my mind.

Like if cops really were assassinating black people, let's go fucking hunt some cops. This is horrible. But then you look into it and you go, no, that's not really a trend. You're lying and you're actually getting cops killed by lying that they're hunting down people. So way to go with that one. But I think we're all on the same page. We'll never agree on music. We'll never agree on food. Those are all tastes.

But as far as political policy, it's just a matter of getting all the facts and talking to enough people, getting to know enough people. So the final question here, cause this will wrap it up. And then I want you to tell people about what you're doing, where you're doing what your new show is and what you're trying to do with it. But the final question is like, what do you see the future being? Do you think this, do we stay at each other's throats in the way that we've been? Or is this going to abate?

Cause the way I hate my business used to be about having fun and it used to be about making people laugh. And that's why I got into it. I'm not really a political person. I like having fun political arguments, but I'm not. I'm not a fucking ideological person because that's boring. That's what fucking boring people do. My parents and you know, it's like, I want to just go issue by issue

because I want to be funny and I want to poke holes in things. And if I have a religious view about certain things, that's going to make me less funny. And you see a lot of bad comedy right now coming from people. Just a way that, you know, super evangelical Christians would probably have a problem or fundamentalist Muslims or anyone would have a problem with certain types of comedy because a fundamental, you know, fundamentalist attitude is not a great, it's just not good for thinking and that's what you need to be funny.

So does this ever abate? Or because this is just, there's so many fucking people now. And I've always said politics is like, it's become a refuge for uninteresting people. And no matter what people can say about you, you're an interesting guy. But there's a lot of people out there where you can tell that these Twitter fights they get in, this is their entire life. They have nothing else going on. They have nothing else to offer.

So does this ever abate or does this just continue forever and ever and ever? Well, it's going to keep getting worse and that's, I'm just a natural fighter. I think it's the Scots, you know, they got terrorized by the English for 700 years and it just bred a bunch of people that like to brawl. The ones that don't like problems are dead. And so I'm going to keep fighting this. I'm going to keep trying to bring people together. You know, Charles Murray predicted all this shit in his book, Coming a Party,

said we're getting more like Britain where there's like the elites and the working class and nary the two show meat. And then you start building up rumors and myths and lies about either group and then they get even farther apart and then they're just in these bubbles where that side is fucking nuts. I hate these Yankees and the Red Sox. But when they start going after comedy, it goes from just wrecking the party because that's what political correctness has done so far.

Wrecked movies where all these girls have to be kick ass and beat up everyone and it's just boring to watch and Star Wars is all about 700 different types of heroes. So no one's feelings are hurt. And then it ruined music where all these bands are getting kicked off labels. Like in Austin alone, I know of three bands that have had their careers decimated for saying something considered to be unacceptable. But when they start attacking comedians, that's when it's getting dangerous or pundits like me.

We are the valve releases on the pressure cooker. It's like cops. If a cop has to pick up a body part, like say someone jumps in front of a subway, the cop has to put all those parts in a bag. And sometimes he'll pick up a human head and be like, hey, this really does feel like a bowling ball. He's now sane, right? He let that release. They can laugh or they'll cry.

They're really coming down on the NYPD now. And they're castigating people who make inappropriate comments. And cop suicide is going up because there's not those release valves. But when they get rid of the comedians and they get rid of the weirdos, the Lora Loomers, the Gavin McKinnon's, the Milo's, then the pressure keeps building and building. And you end up with a lot more animosity and stress and tension. And you end up with a sort of a monolithic Soviet Russia where people aren't happy.

You know, I was thinking about this the other day. Can I say the N-word on your show? I mean, at this point, absolutely. Okay. So Zach Alfinac... Adam's about to say the N-word, everybody. I just want to let everyone know I want to prepare them. Trigger warning.

If you get triggered, if you've never heard a rap song, if this is the first time you've heard it, go for it. Leave the room. So Zach Alfinac used to have this joke and he said, there's this one word people... I mean, I love Arabs and I would never use the derogatory term for them. But there was a word that some use to describe people from the Middle East. And it's...

I even hate saying it. And it's sand nigger. And I would never, ever say a word like that. Well, I mean, I might, like here in America, I might be like, hey, get off that sand nigger. This is my beach. You know, you're not allowed on this part of the beach. And he doesn't say that joke anymore.

And he regrets ever saying it. But if you really listen to that joke, it's a parody of racism. Like Zach Alfinacus doesn't own a whites-only beach. There are no whites-only beaches in America. So you're mocking the absurdity of racism and what it must have been like, you know, in the 50s and 60s when I guess they did have the, you know, those... Not I guess. I know they had those segregation rules.

So he doesn't do that joke. He avoids that. So now you can't lampoon racism. So the irony of all this censorship and political correctness in the urge to save people from evil and bigotry and racism, you're actually preventing it from being lampooned. And that gives it more authority and strength. So I think these groups and all this crusading

is actually creating more hate and more racism. And back when we could all joke around, you know, they didn't have power. I've talked to people who are molested and they told me, there's a common thread with their stories and they say, once I started laughing at him, it stopped because he lost all his authority. And I remember one night I was 10 or whatever and I pointed at him. I just started laughing and then he was mortified and left the room and he never touched me again.

We need to be able to laugh at evil or it will fester and promulgate. Is that a word promulgate? I don't know, but I will tell you. The N word is a word. I know that, but I don't know prom... I think promulgate is a word too. They're both words. I appreciate you coming on.

I think... I really think that this... We are in a weird place because I know some people... I don't think a lot of people get mad that you came on, by the way, but I think some people say, oh, you're having that guy on you. Giving a dog to be a platform. That's what they always say. And it's crazy because they're giving you shit for talking to someone.

Yeah. And it's just like, I just don't think that... That way of thinking just goes to such a fucking, not only a bad place, but an uninteresting place. It goes to a boring place. And to me, as a comedian, as somebody who talks like, who the fuck wants to be boring and who the fuck... So I appreciate you coming on.

I will come on your show whenever you want. I will absolutely do that. And what is your new venture? What is the new site? Proliferate was the word I was trying to... Okay. Pomegranate got in there and it changed the whole thing. The new site is freespeech.tv, and it's like pros and cons,

progressives and conservatives coming together, seeing what they agree on first, and then they can argue later and see what they disagree on. And it's going great. We've had... We had Cornel West and Milo Unopolis. We had Mark Lamont Hill and Roger Stone. We're going to have Ann Coulter, Cynthia Nixon, Michelle Malkin.

I forget who she's paired up with, but it's a liberal doctor guy. Noam Chomsky, I think we're going to get Candace Owens. Always a liberal and a conservative, always civil, always quiet. It's always in a bar and the theme is like a... It's like a speakeasy because free speech is prohibited. It's prohibition. So we sneak in there and you say your secret code and you can go on there and listen.

And the cops show up and we have to run out the back. But then I also do other stuff on it just to... You know, in between all those sit-down interviews where I do a daily sort of a news thing, where I talk about what happened that day and make fun of movies and videos. And I also go through all my old records and talk about various bands.

And then we do sketches. And I fought this dude, Copper Cab, who is a giant beast but punched like a baby girl. Huge variety. So freespeech.tv, if you guys want to check that out. Your podcast is called Get Off My Lawn. And it's on Apple Podcast for at least another 15 to 20 minutes. And then you're on YouTube.

And listen, man, people got to start talking and people got to fucking relax. Well, you know, when you and I get together, it's constant laughs. And you listen to this particular episode and you'd think we both worked for the Senate or something. No, you know what the... Yeah, it does all be serious.

And it's not... We don't talk normally. You know, we don't talk about fucking global warming or censorship. We're like making fun of people's pants. And they've stripped that away from us. No, but here's the thing. When we do your show or when I come out to sea,

it'll be totally different. The tech was an issue here because if we laugh at the same time or talk at the same time, this whole thing disintegrates. But I think this was a good episode too because there's a lot of people out there who don't know who you are or that have heard these crazy things

and you come on here and you make arguments. Now, they could agree with them or disagree with them. But you're like, I'm going to get fucked for saying this, but you're like, you're a rational, reasonable guy. And I don't know. I mean, I don't know what else people could disagree.

People could go, no, I disagree with them on trans people. I disagree with them on that. But the idea that you're like carrying a torch, making people unsafe is not the case. And I think it's that type of stuff that people will listen to this episode and they will hear.

But I agree with you. I think hopefully the next thing we do, better tech, funnier. Yes. Yes. I'm not just talking about this podcast. I'm talking about the climate in general. When Sarah contacted me,

I hadn't spoken to her in years. And she's like, hey, remember that funny thing where that guy reeked and whatever? And what do you do in the Proud Boys? Is that kind of racist? What's going on there? And I'm just like,

look, here's what's going on. People are going to jail. And I got super heavy into it instead of just being fun and happy because I don't know. I feel like we're in a fucking war zone. And when I first talked to people or when I'm making something public like this,

you have to spend the first hour debunking myths. And then you can relax and go. So anyway, who farted? Right. Right. Well, the myths are debunked. I mean, we've done it. Is Sarah going to do the show?

Hopefully she'll do the show that you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. It's a possibility. With someone like that, you don't want to ask because you know that 100% of the time when she talks to someone, they go, can you come on my podcast?

Right. So I'll let it fester a bit. Well, listen, I appreciate you coming on, man. I look forward to seeing you. I will do your show. And I think this is good. This is an education for people. And, you know, at the end of the day,

it's like life's too short. Life is about more than politics, folks. Get over it. You know, that's short to be gay. Don't be gay. Listen, Gavin, you know that I've said that more than anyone. Why are you gay? Have you seen that, by the way, that meme?

It's like an African interview. And he's like, we are sitting with the head of the LGBTQ. First question. Why are you gay? All right, buddy. You're the best. I will look for that meme. Well, maybe we'll put that meme out with this episode.

You should. It's awesome. All right. Thanks so much, Gavin. All right, guys. Have a great day. See you next time.