The Tim Dillon Show - 283 - Joe Rogan

Episode Date: January 11, 2022

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Joe Rogan, thank you for coming, your first podcast. My pleasure, Tim Blum. Thank you for having me. I like the way you do this. We come to your studio. It's easy. We sit here, we do it. Jamie has to work extra.

He's not happy about it. Jamie's happy. But that's okay. That's all right. Thank you for letting me do it. We wanted to follow up Lex Friedman with Somebody Bigger. And that person is you. Oh, thank you.

I wanted to ask you, because it's been, you know, we were just talking about the Hamptons and how crazy people go when they have an insane amount of money. You've done very well in the last, forever, but in the last year. Do you, is it weird as a comic, the types of people that you can be around now or? It's weird.

I'll get like messages from celebrities, like random celebrities, usually about COVID advice. Right. Like I get no bullshit. I've had like dozens of people. That I've never brought their names up, like famous actors, musicians. So just contact me for COVID advice.

Interesting. Yeah, that's weird. But it's also weird that they can just, they know I know them and I'm famous too. So like I've reached this weird spot where I feel comfortable meeting famous people. Like, hi, fellow famous person. Whereas I was plagued by imposter syndrome, like forever.

Like, and I would get real weird around actual celebrities. I'm like, ah, I gotta run to the store. Right. Hang out with the freaks, you know. But now you're cool with it. It's, it's more, I'm just more accustomed to it, I guess, but the money thing and the celebrity thing and all that stuff, it is odd.

And it's not good for a comedian. Comedians are best off known, but not too famous. Right. Because you get too famous and then you get scrutiny from people who aren't even really fans, and they start picking about your material or looking for, you know, where you've aired on the PC side. Right.

And, you know, where you're not woke or where this. What do you think that is with comics where if they get too much money or if they're, they get too big, a lot of them lose their mind. A lot of them have real big problems. Well, famous people lose their mind. Right.

It's just a totally unnatural state of existence. Right. Wherever you go, people know you and they're all happy to see you. Right. And then you also surround yourself with a bunch of people that don't tell you the truth. That's pretty common.

Right. And you gotta find a way to mitigate that or you'll go insane. Right. You have to have something you do that's like an absolute thing, whether it's a workout thing or you play chess or you fucking, you know, whatever it is.

You have to have something that you do that's really difficult. Yeah. That doesn't give a fuck if you're famous. Right. If you don't have, like, I look at it literally like, like it's an exercise for maintaining sanity. Like this, you have to brush your teeth.

You have to go work out. Right. But it's not just your workout to be healthy. It's also a workout because it's so hard to do. Right. That everything else seems easier. Right. Over the last year, you've kind of become,

is this the most heat you've ever taken for a position? Oh, like COVID stuff? For about COVID and the vaccine and stuff like that. Is there, because I know that the trans MMA thing was big but it didn't feel this big. Well, the trans MMA thing was big but it wasn't valid. It was people that don't want any criticism whatsoever

about trans people. And I was like, look, I don't have a problem with trans people. I have a problem with someone pretending that they're a biological woman and fighting women. Once you say you're trans and everybody says, okay, I'll fight her, fine. I'm fine with that. And in fact, MMA is one of the best places for that

because you know exactly who your opponent is. Right. Unlike like this swimmer. Was it you, Penn? Is that what it is? I don't know. But whatever the swimmer is, it's like lapping all these biological women.

Right. That's fucked. Right. Because they don't have a choice. They have to compete against it. And fighting is, you're more of an expert in fighting than many things. Right?

You put your knowledge of fighting up there and the knowledge of advantages that a biological male has over a female. They're giant. The advantage is, and I don't think they go away in two years of, you know, hormone treatments and surgery. It's too much of an advantage. But if a woman is a biological woman

who wants to compete against a trans woman, I have zero problem with that. And there was a situation like that recently. I had no comment about it. It's basically some regional level fighters. And one was trans. And she was a former Navy SEAL, like fucking super jacked. Right.

She used to look like, you know, like a savage. And then became a woman and fought MMA. But apparently it was a good fight too. She almost lost in the first round, won in the second round. I don't care. My issue's not, it's not an anti-trans position. It's like, you can't pretend that that's fair,

that you don't tell someone that you were a biological male for 30 fucking years. So 30 fucking years of having testosterone, pulsing through your system and strengthening your tendons and your muscles, and changing the way your mind works. It's a different mind, you know, a female mind. Absolutely.

So that was a lot of it. That was a big one. But it was more like, I realized that people will distort your perceptions on things or your positions on things. This is different. This is like, the government gets mad at me. Right.

Like, this is crazy. This is the most he, I think I've ever seen a private individual take outside of like, somebody who's leaking secrets or something, right? I mean, this is a pretty, now obviously you're fine. They're not, you know, they're not disappearing you, right? But in terms of just criticism,

you know, Fauci and the, you know, people have addressed you personally. You know, like the media has kind of gone after you personally. Does it affect you at all being in the midst of this shitstorm on the level you're in it? Which is pretty, you're pretty central. Well, it has to affect you because you're aware of it. If you're aware of it, it has an effect on you.

The question is, do you change the way you operate? Like, do I decide that now I'm gonna play it safe and I'm gonna just have podcasts with athletes or comedians just talk about silly things? Right. I could do that. I could just decide to bail out of it. Or I could just do exactly what I wanna do

and do exactly what got me here in the first place. So that's what I do. Yeah. I'm aware of it, but I'm like, you know. I know what's going on too. You know, what's going on, one of the reasons why they go after me is that they realize I have a lot of influence.

Another reason why is because they need a boogeyman. Like, the mainstream media needs a Trump. They need a someone. Because on their own, the problem is it's, a lot of it is editorial opinion pieces by morons. Like, they're really dull-minded folks. These are not the brightest. Well, the reason why they got there in the first place

is not because they're these courageous, pioneering thinkers who have like compassionate, intelligent views in the world. They follow narratives. They read teleprompters. And they say things that align with whatever the ideology is of their network. Right.

So that's what they do. Do you have people that disagree with you on this issue that, and I'm sure you do, that you respect? Yeah. That you go, Sam Harris, somebody like that. Like, people that go, I feel, cause it's a big issue. And it's like a life or death thing.

It's an important issue. People have very strong feelings about it. Obviously there's a lot of disingenuous people in the media that are doing it for clicks. But do you have people in your own life who this is kind of, I don't wanna say a rift, but like, have you fallen out with people over it? Or have you, okay, yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's controversial. But at this point, particularly when I see the way the government's behaving, the suppression of monoclonal antibodies, the demonizing of generic treatments that are available, whether it's hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin, there's a concerted effort

to demonize treatments that many, many, many doctors are using and many countries are using. There's fuckery going on, man. And then it's brought to you by Pfizer. And if you watch the root of this fuckery, it's real clear. And so I'm pretty confident in what I'm saying. I'm not saying that you shouldn't get vaccinated.

I'm not saying that vaccines don't have a positive benefit for a lot of people. They most certainly do. A lot of people who got COVID who were vaccinated, it was way better for them than not being vaccinated. That's a fact. Another fact is there's treatments that are available that could stop it dead in its tracks,

particularly monoclonal antibodies. The Biden administration is doing their very fucking best to make it really hard to get monoclonal antibodies. And according to Peter McCullough, Dr. Peter McCullough, who's the most published physician in history in his field, the most published ever. A rock solid physician without ever having any controversy in his career up until COVID,

he says there's enough monoclonal antibodies for the entire country. He's like, they're doing their best to try to prevent this. Because if you get that monoclonal antibodies, it stops COVID dead in its tracks. So early treatment with monoclonal antibodies knocks it dead. It did it with you, it did it with me.

So then why not go that route? Now I know Pfizer's making a lot of money. Because they want to vaccinate people. They want universal vaccination. You could say there's all sorts of sinister motives for that. You could say they don't want a control group. They want the entire country vaccinated.

So if health problems happen, there's no one to compare it to. There's a lot of things that you could say. You could say that this is just a gigantic money grab, that they have some sort of a very close relationship with the pharmaceutical companies that manufacture the vaccines. I don't know what the fuck it is. But I do know that there are treatments.

And in a same world, you would be pursuing all these treatments. They wouldn't just send you home and say, they can't give you ivermectin. They can't give you anything else. They just come back when your blood oxygen level drops below 92. That's not normal. That's not normal with any other disease.

When they have off-label treatments that are available that people are using, and there are randomized controlled trials that show that they work, I don't know if they fucking work or not. I'm a moron. I'm not a doctor. I'm not an epidemiologist. I'm not a virologist.

But the ones that I've talked to that are that have treated thousands of people, they tell you time and time again that these are effective methods. They point to Uttar Pradesh in India that's knocked it out. Using entirely this combination of ivermectin and a few other off-label drugs, they point to all these different countries all around the world

that have experienced very low rates of COVID. And they say, why does Japan use ivermectin? Why do all these other countries use it? Why is CNN pretending it's veterinary medication? When more people have taken ivermectin, then there are horses on planet Earth. It's fucking nuts. The media has clearly attacked you using a playbook that

has only made them look very disingenuous. And you've, I think, more people's eyes have been opened by the media lying about things you've said or misrepresenting ivermectin as horse medication, things like that. In terms of, I think, one of the criticisms people have had is they've said, why not bring on people that are more pro-vex? I have.

So you put on subject goop to? Well, I had him on. I had Rhonda Patrick on. I had a conversation with her about it in the early days of the podcast. I had Michael Osterholm, who's an infectious disease expert. I had Peter Hotez, who's a vaccine expert. Quite a few of them are.

The thing is, over time, I've noticed that the mainstream narrative is being guided in a way where everybody steps in line and people are ignoring all these other things that we talked about. They're ignoring the suppression of monoclonal antibodies. They're ignoring the suppression of treatments. There's a lot of shit going on. Have any of those dudes reached out to come back on again?

Or have they, like Osterholm or people like that? Is it weird? Because also, people bring up this whole thing that you have where you go, listen, I'm not anti-vax, right? You have a whole thing where you talk about that a lot of people that are against all vaccinations are historically, they've been proven wrong. Like, we've stamped out a lot of diseases.

What about, like, because I would wonder, because I know. This isn't a vaccine. Right, no, no, no, for sure. It's a gene therapy. That's part of the problem. It's kind of an experimental thing. I mean, the experiment is massive now. It's billions and billions of people worldwide.

But it's essentially experimental in terms of the long-term health consequences. So I wonder about guys like, because they don't seem like bad people, Osterholm or guys like that, right? Well, they've never been bad people. They've never been bad people. And are they just looking at, well, all these people, a lot of them are faring better with the vaccine

if they get COVID so they're not looking at the other adverse effects? There's a bunch of things you could say. I mean, it's a lot of its speculation. But again, there's a lot of people that benefit from being vaccinated. That's a fact. There's also people that have horrible reactions

to the vaccine. That's a fact, too. Like there's a lot going on. And when you're only allowed to look at one group of one example of evidence and not another example, like a positive example versus a negative example, that's not good for anybody. No, it's not.

It just sucks for me that I'm stuck in this weird position where I have to talk about this. You're in this crazy position as a comedian, MMA commentator, a podcaster. But the show has become such a massive. I mean, they put out numbers the other day. I mean, you're the leading media figure right now. Dumb as that.

Well, that's how you know. That's how you know the slowest part. I was so mad that you were, and I called my producer, and I fired him. I had to re-hire him because I couldn't find anyone else. But I was so angry because I don't have guests. And that's what a real media person should do. I have no interest in anyone's opinion.

Just like my mother, who's a schizophrenic. She never had to have anyone over to have a good time. And that's the way I do. But you now have a crazy amount of people listening. Because people try to guilt you. People try to go, somebody didn't get vaccinated and they died of COVID. And they try to go, that's Joe Rogan's fault.

This is what people say. Is that what they say? Well, that's what they say. I mean, this is their whole thing, right? This is what I would say. Why didn't the doctors give them treatment? Why did the doctors get their monoclonal antibodies? Were they denied monoclonal antibodies?

Did they request them? Did they know about them? Why didn't they get IV vitamin drip infusions? Why didn't they get NAD? Is that available? Isn't that available? Especially IV vitamin drips. That shit's very available.

We know that high level vitamin drips, especially with C, D, zinc, glutathione, all those things are hugely beneficial to any kind of disease people have. For sure. I've got them like just a health remedy for the last few years. And every time I do it, it feels fucking great.

And you know people personally that have had problems with the vaccine. I know quite a few now. Now I know over 15 people that have had like serious side effects of the vaccine. Both men and women, menstrual issues, strokes, neurological disorders, chronic fatigue. So what's a neurological disease?

Is that a curiosity? Is that a whole body shaking? And you can't do anything about it, like weird ones, man. And the thing is, when you're vaccinating, this to be fair, you're vaccinating hundreds of millions of people in this country alone, you're going to get adverse side effects on any medication.

The thing is, if you look at only that, like if you vaccinate 100 million people, they think that the adverse side effects and they don't really know because the VAERS report, it's kind of, it's very under reported. And it's also, it's hard to see whether or not it's 100% accurate. I don't know how much they investigate

each individual one. But if you, they seem to think that at a low number, like a conservative number, it's like one per 1,000. So if you vaccinate a million people, you're going to have a lot of people that have adverse side effects. You've vaccined 100 people, you're going to have a lot. So this is what we're dealing with.

Yeah. And that doesn't get any play. It doesn't, they suppress it. There was a kid on TikTok that had myocarditis and he was a high school kid, like an athlete, and he was in the hospital. And it got millions and millions of plays. They removed it from TikTok

because it doesn't fit the narrative. Like that's what's fucked. Because they say that's really an indication of a much larger problem. Yes, the problem is they think they're doing good. I mean, a 13 year old got it and died a day later. Quite a few. There's a few kids that unfortunately have passed away.

Yes. I have a friend and one of his good friend's daughter got it. She was 14 years old and just immediately respiratory failure. They put her in the ICU. She's fucked. There was one of the girls in the trials that was 13 years old.

It's confined to a wheelchair for the rest of her life. And you can't sue? Not that suing would matter when it's your trial. No, you can't. That's part of what's going on, the emergency use authorization. It exempts them from any. And you're talking about these companies

that have always historically lied about adverse side effects in order to make profit. They've done it with Vioxx. They've done it with a bunch of other drugs in the past. Pfizer's like one of the most fine companies ever. The Russian vaccine Sputnik is actually the best vaccine. It's supposed to be very good. It's actually the best vaccine.

It's crazy. There's another one for Cuba. Nobody's talking about it. It's supposed to be very good too. Yeah. The Cuban one's supposed to be actually good. Lex Friedman is in, you know, Lex is an agent of Russia. He works for Russia.

He definitely does. And he's here in America now. I think he's related to Putin. Yeah, he's his son. Lex Friedman is the son of Putin and Gislaine Maxwell. His real name's Damien. Keep it on the low. Keep it on the low.

But he was talking about Sputnik and I researched Sputnik and Sputnik is actually good. Could you, instead of with the ivermectin, just pitch Sputnik? Well, I think they're going to divert the people that are angry at you when you go, all right, I'll give you a vaccine. Get Sputnik.

Just get a Russian one. It's the best one. Get Sputnik. Get the Cuban one. What's the Cuban one called? I don't know. It's a good question. James, check that.

There's a new one that's coming out apparently that is, it's an inert version of the virus like an old school vaccine. So that's what you want? Well, I don't know, man. I mean, is that good? Is that good to guess? I don't know.

Well, here's the thing, man. What about treatments? What about these fucking treatments? How good is this Pfizer pill that's coming out? How good is the Merck pill that's coming out? Maybe that's the way it goes. Maybe they're great. Maybe a good thing to do is get the natural antibodies

for an infection and they have a really effective treatment. And also, you're right about this. You can't have the body positivity shit, where you tell people you can be fat and that it's great for you. You shouldn't demonize fat people, but you should also be very honest with them about you're making a choice.

Just like when you become a comedian, you're making a choice. It may not work statistically, it won't, but you can try and good luck, right? It's like you become an actor, an artist, whatever. Being fat is kind of similar to that, where it's like, it's probably not gonna work long term. It's even worse with COVID apparently,

because there's something about COVID that targets fat. And yeah, and they've shown significant numbers of people that are in the ICU that are overweight. It's one of the worst things you can have. And in the beginning, they weren't as honest with that as they are now. Well, that's the thing, it's like, there's things that upset people,

and so because they know those things upset people, they don't think about it. They don't decide not to talk about it. And body shaming is one of those things. Right, but it's true that you have a much higher risk. Yeah, it's true. Of having adverse reaction to COVID, hospitalization, death if you're a fatty boom baddie.

Yeah, I think if we're really lucky, these merc pills or the Pfizer pills are excellent. And then also this Omicron, I have a friend who's a biologist who's talking to me about this. He goes, essentially what this is, is a live vaccine. It's a vaccine that's burning through the population. It's not, he's saying it's not good to get it.

I'm not saying it's good to get it. What I'm saying is it's a respiratory virus, and it's almost inevitable that people are gonna get it because of the infectious rate of it. It's super infectious. And because it's super contagious, rather, this disease is probably gonna get everybody who hasn't gotten COVID yet.

What's interesting is that nobody in Hollywood's vaccinated. Nobody talks about it. We know a bunch of actors, none of them are vaccinated, right? Really? None of them. You mean they hide it? They hide it. They have fake vaccine cards.

Oh, really? I thought you'd be facetious. No, no, no, no. A lot of Hollywood actors are not doing it because they're younger, a lot of them, they're healthier, they have access to really good treatment, they just have the other thing. They don't trust a narrative, whatever.

They're just not. And outwardly, they're not talking about it, right? Like, think of how many Hollywood celebrities went hard for Black Lives Matter. Now, think about how many of them went hard for the vaccine. Not a lot. There's just not a lot of Hollywood people.

Stephen Colbert went hard. He went hard, but that's his job. Is it? Well, yeah, he's a puppet. I mean, that's like literally the marionette. That was the most puppety thing I think I've ever seen. Well, he's a guy that took the $25 million a year, which I get if somebody pays me $25 million a year.

Is that what they give the host that show? They give him a lot of money. And he was getting no ratings, and then Trump came in, and he goes, my aunt loves Stephen Colbert. You know, she's in her 60s or late 50s. She has three or four autoimmune disorders. She's self-diagnosed. She drinks white Zinfandel, and she sits in her chair.

She has a loveless marriage. And she stares at the TV, and Stephen Colbert comes on, and he goes, Trump's evil, and the Republicans are evil, and she cheers and smacks her seal-like paws together. And this is how she's gonna spend the rest of her life. And I have another aunt who does the same thing, but she's a QAnon retard, and she watches Laura Ingraham, and her husband and her are like, you know,

it's a loveless marriage. And she just sits in her chair, drinking wine, watching Laura Ingraham and Tucker Carlson. So people at a certain age, I think when they've given up on everything else in life, they get very political. Yeah, that does happen. This also gives them meaning.

Gives them something to do. Well, they watch their tribe go to war. That's right. That's like, well, people are into football teams. That's right. You know, fucking go-bucking-ears. Right, right, it's crazy. They get all excited.

They paint their chest. Yes. They go insane. It's their team. And if their team loses, they get devastated. Do you, as a highly productive person, look at people like that and go, they're just lower life forms?

Because I'm not even nearly as productive as you, when I look at them like that, and I do a hundredth of, maybe a thousandth of what you do, and I look at them and they go, they're like zombies. Their bodies and minds have been taken over. Well, they got, it's a trap. It's like, have you ever watched people play Three-Card Monty in New York?

Yes. And you go, oh, you fucking dummy. Are you gonna get sucked into that? Like, you get sucked into all these things. You know, it's what I say about like, if you get really invested in politics. Voting for president is probably a lot like rooting on pro wrestling.

That's right. It might make you feel better, but I don't know how much it really affects the outcome. And they're trying to pull that back as much as possible now. I mean, if you look at Biden, who's clearly, you know, this act didn't get passed. Even the Democrats are going, this guy is out of it. Even people that voted for him are going,

hey, something's wrong. It's clear to see that the will of the people gets subverted a lot in many different ways. And the people who end up running the show are not necessarily representative of what the public wants. Yeah. And how do you, I don't know that you fixed that.

I don't know if you fixed that either. So unfortunately, it's just, you end up adopting this kind of cynical position. Right. That you can only really take care of yourself, your family, your community, the people you can donate money, you can be altruistic in many different ways. But as far as the government,

it seems like an unsolvable problem. It's definitely complex and it's moving in the wrong direction. Right. You know, I've been paying attention to these companies that are buying up affordable housing. Yeah. Like BlackRock and Sillow.

Yeah, that's scary. It is scary. That's scary. Because if they can move the entire country into renting, like nobody can own it. Well, that's what they want to do. Right, that's what I'm saying. They don't want anyone to own anything.

If you get a giant majority of the population that are just renters that don't ever own property, they never have their own real home, and then you make sure that you control their wage because you have massive corporations, whether it's Target or Amazon or whatever, and they limit the amount of possible growth you have within a company.

Yeah. And there was that article, you'll own nothing and be happy in 2030. Yeah, you'll see that. That is wild. And this is, you know, kind of, you know, when you look at a lot of these think tanks and, you know, groups of very powerful interests,

when you look at the kind of world they want, they would like to get rid of things like car ownership. Yes, I've been seeing that, too. They want to get rid of home ownership. They want people to all be on the grid in a major way. They want surveillance, you know, cradle to grave, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Social credit systems.

Yeah, and the only thing it's left to do seems to be to get in with them, so that when they're doing this to everyone, you're with them. Yeah, you're on the right side of the plastic glass. Because here's the problem. People are marching into this willingly. They're like marching into it.

It's like my aunt or the other aunt. Like, people, as long as their team wins, they don't really care what rights they lose and what things end up looking like. Yeah, they don't. There's a lot of people that don't. And they're so tribal that if the right-wing people want something, they want the opposite of that,

even if it kills them. And so I think that there's a lot of exaggerated positions by people that take up these really, like, amplified right-wing positions. And it's probably like Russian trolls or Chinese trolls or something like that. And they take up these positions, which force the people on the left to get even more crazy

with their Marxist ideas and leftist ideas. They turn it up. They're being played. They turn it up. And very few people are autonomous. Very few people have their own, like... But we're also a silly country now. So we have kids in the suburbs calling themselves

Maoists, unironically, in these leafy green suburbs. And then we have the alt-right. And it's the same kids. And they want a return to the Holy Roman Empire. And these are children running around the suburbs that are online all day, venerating these genocidal dictators and going, this is a good idea. It's a silly country, and there's a lot of problems.

And you know one of the first indications that I saw that this was coming was when comics stopped doing colleges? Interesting, yeah. Because as soon as comics... Because you lose the younger people. Yeah, the comics were like, dude, they're too fucking politically correct.

It's too annoying. I don't want to do this. They don't have any world experience. And their ideas are preposterous. And, you know, they don't want any... They're the first to say no one should own property. They're the first to say that we need a redistribution of wealth.

And we need... Which a little bit of is good. But you don't want all of it. Income equality. Because then why make money? Income equality is a crazy statement. Of course. Because should people make more money?

Yes. Yes. They definitely should. If you look at a corporation that's making fucking untold billions of dollars, and then you go down to the bottom of the chain and people are in dire poverty that are working for that company,

and that company is benefiting substantially more than that person's getting. The balance is way off. The balance is way off. And those people have no leverage. That's where unions come into play. That's why it's important. But that's why Jeff Bezos recently with Amazon,

like he's taking the photos with the girl. He's enjoying it. At least the Amazon employees, even though they don't have food or healthcare, can look at him and go, he's having fun. Do you know what I mean? Where as a Warren Buffett, he's just in Omaha having sex with kids quietly and worshiping Satan.

Is that what he's doing? Come on. Who lives in Omaha? He has a billion dollars. He drinks a lot of Coca-Cola. He's got a hundred billion dollars. He lives in Omaha. Why?

Because he likes like- He lives in a small house. He says he likes Dairy Queen. Let's cut it out. But Bezos at least, he's on a raft with these whores in the middle of the ocean. At least that inspires people. I think it's his girlfriend.

I think it's actually his girlfriend. Yeah. She's really pretty. She's pretty in an interesting way. What does that mean? There's a shapeliness to her that's, she seems threatening. Like an animal.

She looks like an agent. Kind of like somebody that would play an agent in a movie, which is interesting because she probably is an agent in real life. Well, she's a massage agent or something. Dated a lot of other people. She's had children. I think she's American.

Well, God bless her. And she's making good choices. I always tell women, if you can, marry a billionaire, right? It's a good move. Marry a wealthy dude. Hang in there for a couple of years. The best life is to marry someone who they make money by destroying themselves

while you enjoy it, which is many relationships that I know. A woman will enjoy the fruits of a man's life. He will destroy himself and she will kind of enjoy the money. Right. But Bezos, I believe is retired. Well, it's stepped down as a CEO.

But it's kind of like Putin, right? Where they never really stepped down. Interesting. But my thing is like, when you have a country that's this silly, where comedy specials are people coming out making serious points. You have late night hosts crying.

You have, you know, the girl who threatened her mother on Dr. Phil is a legitimate star, right? Bad baby, remember that woman? Oh yeah. She threatened a killer mother on TV. She's a star now. She has massive Instagram followers. Massive, massive.

Where does this go? Right? Pictures of apes are selling for the cost of a Lamborghini. Our last president was the guy who hosted The Apprentice and on his last day of office, a mob of lunatics ran into the Capitol to take selfies with fucking wigs on. It looked like a sketch I would do like,

it really is, we're in like a fucking weird movie. Do you remember when you were a kid you would hear about the last days of the Roman Empire? Yes. Where they were just like eating until they couldn't take it anymore and then shoving a feather in their mouth and throwing up and fucking everybody.

Yes, that's us. And it's, when explained like that, it sounds good. It doesn't sound that bad. But it is funny as a commute when you step back and you go like this is really, really crazy stuff. It's crazy stuff and the problem is I don't see a good ending because if we fall in, the other problem is we have to compete with China.

And China has this amazing ability to control their population through propaganda and intimidation and total censorship, which we're like moving in that kind of general direction, which is really scary because the one way we may be able to compete with China is to become more like China. Because otherwise like they're so integrated.

Their government and their business is inexorable. They're connected. You cannot have a corporation where the government's not involved. So the government makes decisions with the corporations that benefit the government and benefit the Chinese Communist Party, benefit the country in general.

And we're on that path too. Military industrial contractors, pharma companies that kind of killed the Obama healthcare bill. They went in and rewrote that and they were like, we don't want this. Well, their lobbyists had a lot of influence on that. I mean, it's strange to really conceive of it as a reality as opposed to just a joke

or a kind of a cynical aside. It actually does seem that we're in a stage of decline that's somewhat irreversible. Yeah, it does. And it's hard not to be depressed. Have you, I think we've talked about this before. Douglas Murray, he talked about all the gender issues. Yes.

He was on my podcast and he was saying that these gender issues where people are changing gender, swapping gender, he goes, that takes place in all civilizations that are collapsing. Now, why is that? I don't know. Is it people just get bored?

I think it's a, when life gets very easy, people start looking for problems and they start looking to the structure of society and then looking to dissolve. Because there are legitimate trans people clearly. Clearly. Clearly, I know somebody who's trans, who never speaks about it, lives as a woman,

doesn't even know that I know. Great person. Born a man, now lives as a woman, doesn't speak, lives as a woman, doesn't speak about, is like very much. Well, say her name so everybody knows. Well, I don't, she probably wouldn't even mind. Everyone now is such a fame whore.

Well, I have Blair White on the podcast. Blair White, yeah. As trans as you get. You look at that and go, oh, I get it. So there's a hundred percent. But then there's this other thing where people are going, I have green hair. Yeah.

I'm trans or non-binary and you go, wait a minute, hold on a minute. You're a white female who goes to Wesleyan College. You're dating a guy. Right. You're in a heterosexual relationship. You've felt no oppression your entire life. Your dad works for Raytheon.

Your mother's a pill addict. You go to school. And you Billy Joel song. This is it. You go to school and you figure out a way to not be the oppressor. Right, right, right. You go, I will be different now.

It's true. And as a real faggot, you used to have to be a faggot, to be a faggot. Like you used to have to have sex with men or if you're a woman you have sex with women and people were supposed to be like, and there was some naturalness to that because the reaction of people was that

the thing that you were saying was real. Right? And some people were like, it was harder for them to get behind. But you suffered legitimate oppression. You suffered legitimate oppression because the feelings you had were valid and real. Right, not non-binary oppression.

It was real. Like you were saying, I put a penis in my mouth and people were going, that's hard. And what does my father say that? Because that's hard. No, I'm kidding. He's fine with everything

as long as he doesn't have to work harder. It's not a hard worker. But, so the whole thing is this new thing has taken over the gay thing now. So it's not really gay people. Right, it's fake. Gay people are kinda looked at as Nazis. Really?

If you see two lesbians now, because lesbians usually own businesses. You know, they're usually, they're capitalist. Most lesbians are capitalist and they're quite vicious. Really? They fire people. Oh, most lesbians are very competent people. Whereas a lot of gay men.

Like Ellen? Like Ellen. Ellen is a CEO. Truly. She is a real estate portfolio that's in excess of a hundred million dollars. I mean, she, the woman was a tyrant. But she got things done.

But now I think the gays and lesbians are like the normies of gays now. And there's a new crop of people coming in that don't really have any sex. They spend most of their time online. They're all like pansexual communist witches. And their main goal is to tweet about you. No one even Fox.

They're really just tweeting about you. No one's even having dirty, sweaty, sinful sex in a motel room anymore. Everybody's on Reddit talking about you. Have you? It's a weird thing. It's weird for me. It's really weird.

Remember the bird cage, the movie? It was very fun. Yeah, I never watched it. It's great. Nichols and May wrote it. It's brilliantly funny. It's gay people in South Beach doing drugs, having sex and having fun.

We are like the opposite of that. We are like in some sexless, autistic, horror hellscape where people just sit around and there's this weird like office politics, bureaucratic, weird, like you made me upset. You made me upset. Like I grew up with rent where it was that show where people were like, we have AIDS, but let's have fun.

Right, let's do it. That was a theme of rent. It was like, we have AIDS, but let's not let it ruin the night. And now people are just upset for all kinds of reasons. It's weird. And you don't really hate gay people. No, I don't hate it.

I love you. I don't. No, you've been very good to me. Loving me is like golfing with Candice. Someone's going, I love blacks. Hahaha. Hahaha. Ah, ah, ah.

So no. No, I love everybody, man. I have no ill will towards any individual group. Right. Individual people. Yeah, of course. And silly people. How weird is it that a comedy's gotten weird

like now at the comedy store, you have all these guys that have talked shit about you, right? Obviously, many of them are feeble and diabetic and dying. So it's not like they present a physical threat. I mean, many of them are not well. But if you were like, is it weird now

with this community the way it is that's so splintered? Well, I don't know who's talking shit about me. And the ones that do, if that is real, I left. And I left, I brought a lot of the people here. And it's better here. Right, right. And I think there's a lot of FOMO going on for sure. Yeah.

But then there's also a lot of people that are trying to establish this new position on the food chain, which is one of the ways that you and I became friends, is I read the thing you wrote about Louie. And I'm like, he fucking nailed it, because that's exactly what it is. It's these mediocre talents that are looking to attack Louie,

who is at the time, and still is, one of the best comics it's ever lived. One of the most brilliant comic minds that have ever lived. And so when they were attacking him, they weren't just attacking him because they thought that what he did was wrong. They were doing it because they wanted to establish that they want to stop him down because he was weak.

Because they didn't even know what he did. You know, like there was just this idea, this very kind of vague general idea of what he'd been out there and things like that. There's a lot of cowardice in comedy, man. There's a lot of cowards. And there's a lot of people that take some chances, but then they fucking think about them and they panic.

And then they go back and they'll try to attack someone because they think it makes them feel like they're more protected because they're offensive. It's like, it's a wild time, man. And social media has flamed up everybody's mental illness. Like anybody who had a little bit of mental illness, they just fucking threw buckets of lighter fluid on that shit.

Would you have Fauci on the show? 100%. Wow. 100%. You don't think he'd come on though, right? I don't think he'd come on, but if he did, I would request a real podcast. Like you can't come on for 20 minutes.

Like we're going to talk for a few hours. What if he came here, sat down, got high, and was the greatest guest you've ever had? That'd be awesome. What if he just admitted it? What if he's like, Joe, we're making fucking money about AIDS. Yeah, he goes, we're making money.

We made money off AIDS. We made money off this. I've got to the point. I'm coming clean. I'm 80. What the fuck? He goes, who gives a fuck? You jab him up.

A couple of them fall down in a Walmart. You are entirely correct, Tim. That is exactly what I've been doing my entire career. It's a, let me tell you about repurposing HIV drugs. This was how we started this scam. Gain a function research. He just unloads. Obama shut it down, right?

Obama shut down, gain a function research. And he was like wary of the implications of having it. 100% because he's fucking smart. He's a smart guy. How bad do you miss him? When you look at the presidents, we've been since then.

I still do coke with him, so I don't miss him at all. I would like to. I do coke with him and his wife in Miami, and they're hilarious. But I like to do coke with him and Bruce Springsteen. Bruce is depressing me. They have a bad podcast. I'd like to come in and spice it up.

Oh, Bruce has a podcast? With Obama. No, he does. It's terrible. That is horrible. You and I should go on and show them how to do it. Like, stop. You know how they get like dance instructors

that do like dancing with the stars? They think they're dancers. You know, like, oh, I'm a dancer. No, no, no, no. The real dancers are gonna show you how to dance. You and I, we should go in there. We should go in there. We're gonna show them how to fucking podcast.

What the hell are those two talking about? Nonsense. Oh, God. It's nonsense. It's all like so, like, it's so aware of what they're doing. That people are paying attention. They're so aware of like walking that line

of acceptable narratives that nobody cares about it. Right, right. It doesn't work. It's crazy. It doesn't work. That's one thing about podcasts. The brilliant thing about it is because there's no real production.

There's no real engineering and where a bunch of people like writing scripts and following that is that it's so raw that anything that's not like that doesn't work. Whereas like mainstream news is so produced that if you had raw on mainstream news, people are like, what the fuck? Kind of unprofessional shit is this?

Bruce Springsteen's gotta turn around to Obama during it and be like, so your wife's a man. Like someone has to, someone has to liven it up with fun stuff like that, which isn't true, but it's a fun way to kick off an episode, you know? They believe that. They do believe that. They're hardcore.

Do you ever get people that are with you on the vax but then want you to go much further? Oh, yeah. They're like, listen, the world's flat. Yeah, because they don't stop at the vax. They go much further. Why would you? They go hollow earth.

They go hollow earth. They go, the world is flat. Reptile people. Yeah, the Jews are in a cupboard. It's a whole thing. Yeah, deep op. Yeah. Who knows what's real and what's not real.

Right. You go down a list of all the things that Alex Jones predicted. Right. He didn't get a lot of wrong. Well, he did it, but he did get a few of them wrong. Fucked up that Sandy Hook one. I have one rhymes with Mandy Mook.

And that's a real, that's a rough one. That's the problem. If that one didn't exist, let's pretend that he never fucked that up. Because he was going through a rough time in his life. He was going through a rough time. He was drinking like crazy. He had essentially a psychotic break.

I mean, he's really open about it. But my uncle went through a rough time and he just played golf through it. Like sometimes you just, sometimes you just, that's a great point. But sometimes you just gotta go through the rough time without accusing kids of faking their death. Well, he wasn't accusing the kids of doing it.

He was accusing the parents. Whatever. He fucked up. He's a good man. But the point is, if he didn't, if you just remove that and then you look at all the things that he predicted that are accurate. He was right about a lot of them.

You gotta look at a guy like, people are like, why would you talk to a guy like that? Yeah. Because first of all, I've known him for more than 20 years. He's my friend. He is a very nice guy. Right. He absolutely fucked up.

But he'll tell you that he fucked up. Right. And people fuck up. And I think you gotta be allowed to fuck up. And he did not direct the people to do the horrible things. No, no. But the problem is- These are just crazy.

His fans are crazy. People are crazy. Some of his fans are what they call, they're a little off. I got news for you, pal. This is the one. Some of yours are off too. Mine as well. I know it.

I know it. No avoiding that. But the idea that you're responsible for the off people that listen to you and want to start screaming at Megan McCain, stop fucking your dead dad. Well, that I tell them to do. I organize that.

I have rallies. But you know what I'm saying? It's like, people are crazy. And if you put out- I said they wanted to find a conservative on the view. I said, let me go in there with the wig. I'll be the conservative that left. Does any woman even want to do that anymore?

Nobody wants to do it anymore. Kat Temp, who was a libertarian on Fox, they were trying to go hard at her. But she's like, I'm on gut felt. I'm on a show. People watch who cares. They've turned that show into, what they've done is they've made it

so that all they do is fight. All they do is scream and yell. All they do is get upset at people. It's all negative. It's all demeaning. It's all insulting. They've just gotten to this point where the show has just got this feel of it.

You only watch to see who they're mad at. Like, right. No, it's a horrible, horrible experience for anyone watching or participating at it, truly. This is what's wrong with it. If you got five friends, they just wanted to talk about things like that, and they didn't have time limits,

and they didn't have, all these constraints that are put on a show like that hinder the possibility of it being good. There's all the people in the audience, that's a problem, because you're playing to the audience. And then you have the fact that you'll have a commercial coming up at 45 seconds. You gotta make your point.

And then these other bitches are trying to chime in. You gotta talk over them. But they can't find a female conservative. I think they're gonna have to use that grandma who was yelling at the Sandy Hook parents. I forget her name. The one who was like, prove it, you dumb fuck. But she was a QAnon grandma.

I forget her name. Ben knows her name. She was a QAnon grandma. Yeah, she was this grandma that was in that documentary, and she would yell at these parents. It was very sad. She'd be like, prove it, you dumb fuck, about their kids, the time.

And I think she should be on the view. Or get Rosie O'Donnell back, because she had at least question 9-11. Yeah, yeah. She questioned Tower 7 and a lot of other things. Like, those things are real complicated. You can't get those wrong. You can't get them wrong.

But there's clearly fuckery with that. If there's fuckery with the vaccine, there's fuckery with that. Well, there's certainly fuckery in the reaction to that, because we invaded Iraq. That's all you need to know. I had a little bit about that at one point. It's like, if you can look at what happened

on September 11, 2001, and then the logical conclusion is, we gotta invade a country that had nothing to do with it. It's crazy. It's crazy. And then they did it. And they said, well, there's weapons and mass destruction there.

Okay, and they cost more than a million lives. And it turns out there were no weapons and mass destruction. It's just a weird thing where I go, I'm just like one of those old school guys, it goes, do you show me one video of the plane hitting the Pentagon? And I'm good. See, I think there is a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon.

No, there's looks like a fucking plane. What does that look like? It's a trail of smoke. They doctored it. 9-11 the new Pearl Harbor. 9-11 the new Pearl Harbor is a crazy documentary by this Italian guy, Massimo Mazzucco. It's five hours, watch it.

You people have nothing to do. It's five hours. Is it good? It's great. I'm telling you right now, it's a five hour documentary on YouTube. You will watch it, get the fam together, sit them down, popcorn.

And I'm telling you right now, cause I watched it to debunk it. I watched it to debunk it and went, yeah, you start going into the flight, the phones at 30,000 feet. These people have a conversation. It's just not happening. That's the truth.

You can't have a cell phone call at 30,000 feet. Something's really, really off with that day, but you just can't. Now in these publications that write about me, they describe me as like 9-11 truth or COVID denier. It's like, I just get all these. You had COVID, how can you be denied? I've never said COVID was not real.

Yeah. You know? I've said I thought it was good. Well, I've had people mad at me because I medicated. Cause I took medicine for COVID. People's argument is you're in shape, you eat right, you work out, why would you take the medication? Cause it's better than not taking medication.

Of course. The stuff works. Of course. Listen, I'm not saying you shouldn't take medication. I'm saying, you're saying you should take medication. I'm saying you should for sure, always, but especially if it's proven medication that works. But the point is like,

you shouldn't have a binary solution for things. So it's either this or nothing. It's either one or zero. That's crazy. Do you, when people pass away, they donate a large chunk of their fortune to like research and things like that. Do you think you'll donate yours to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

or like Dana White, who will you give your money to? Demi Lovato, she's gonna give it to ghosts. Hey man, she used to live in my building. Fun woman. Yeah, it's straight. Do you ever think to yourself, what's the next act? Because you've literally, you're the most successful comedian probably

when you look at all the different things you've done. There's not many people that have like, what do you ever go, I've done it all, and that's a little scary. No, no, because I don't think like that ever. The crazy thing about all the different things that I've done is I've, all I've ever tried to do, like I tried to become a professional comedian.

I achieved that, and then I started working as a professional comic. And then all the other stuff is just stuff that came up. Whether it's acting on news radio, that was just, they just offered me money to act on this. Do you still keep in touch with Kathy Griffin? No, I would though. No, yeah, it's all over.

Yeah. Was she on that show or no? No. Okay, I thought she was on that show. No, no, no, no. Kathy Griffin was on Just Shoot Me, right? No, no, not Just Shoot Me, it was the other one. I forgot.

She's nice. Vicki Lewis was on news radio. That's what she was thinking of. Yeah, okay, I don't know, I don't know about her. She's red head too. That's maybe I'm getting confused. We used to always joke around that she was stealing her act

when we were on news radio. Joking around. And you worked with Phil Hartman, who was one of the funniest people ever. But again, that was just, like I stumbled into that show. Like completely stumbled into it. I had no acting experience. I mean, I'd done a little bit of acting

on another terrible sitcom that got canceled. That got canceled. All of a sudden I'm on news radio working with Dave Foley and Andy Dick and Phil Hartman with no acting experience. What the fuck is happening here? Yeah, what's going on? And then I go from that to fear factor. I'm like, well, this is gonna get canceled immediately.

Meanwhile, it's one of the most successful reality shows ever. It's like six fucking seasons. What did you learn from like that? Was it just do everything and don't focus too much on like, because there's, even though you're saying you're stumbling into them and you are stumbling into them, there's a skill to stumbling, right? There's a skill to being, position yourself in a way

that you can kind of get those opportunities. There's that, but there's also being able to handle pressure. Okay, there you go. Like being able to handle auditions, pressure, being able to handle the pressure of speaking live in front of a large audience, whether it's doing the UFC broadcast or doing a comedy show or a podcast,

you gotta be able to handle pressure. Some people just suck at pressure. You know, I've always put myself in these positions where I have to perform at a pressure because opportunities are available there because so many people don't like pressure. So I would look at her and go, oh, people are scared of this, so I'll go do that.

Like there's less people doing it and it's more exciting to me because it's kind of dangerous and scary. When you got into it, was your family like, oh, this is cool? Or were they like, no, what are you doing? What are you doing, idiot? Like go to school, get a career, get a real job.

Like you're not funny. There was a lot of that. Right, right, right. And even when I was fighting, like you're gonna get hurt. You know, there's like everything I've done, like what are you doing? You know, it's just, it's hard. If you have a child and you want your child to be successful,

you don't want your child to take some wild, crazy fucking chance that, what is a million to one chance it's gonna pan out? Probably more than a million. Right. Was your childhood like to show Cobra Kai at Netflix where you're just fighting people all the time? That's what I imagine it is.

You're just, you're in a dojo, you have a sensei, you just fight the other kids at the, you know, bomb. Well, I did fight a lot of people, but I did it mostly in tournaments, but I did fight in dojos a lot. We had real dojo fights. Not that I know of. Okay.

Why were you fighting everybody? Were they fighting you? Yeah, yeah. Like guys would come in from other schools and they would challenge us. And I was often the guy who got thrown in with them. Yeah. When you were younger, were you bullied?

What motivated you? Yeah, yeah. I was small and guys would pick on me and I moved around a lot. Like we moved all the time. Like I lived in San Francisco from, well, New Jersey to age seven, San Francisco age seven to 11, Florida 11 to 13,

Boston 13 to 24. So I was fucking moving constantly. So I never really established a great group of friends that I was tight with. I was always the new kid and I was not big. So I got fucked with. Right. So you learned to defend yourself.

Well, I had to. When I moved to Newton, I got fucked with like by a bunch of kids and it was kind of scary. You know, I didn't know how to defend myself. And I was like, fuck, like I got to do something. And so I started taking martial arts and it changed my life 180 degrees. I was like, turned it around 180 degrees.

Right. And then all of a sudden I wasn't worried about conflict anymore. And then I became obsessed with being like, oh, like a world champion. I became obsessed with being like the best. Did you have like one good teacher where there's a few good teachers to stand out?

Yeah. I had quite a few, but I went, I got very lucky that I went to this one school, this J-Hun Kim Taekwondo Institute in Boston. It's like one of the most highly respected schools in the country at the time at least. And it was just dead lucky. Just dead luck.

I just happened to go there one day. Right. And I happened to go there while this guy, John Lee, was training for the world championships. And I happened to watch him train, like when he was at his peak of condition, when he was a national champ and I became obsessed. Right.

And I was there every day. Right. So most of my high school from like age 15, all the way until I was 21, was just obsessed with martial arts and competing. Right. Traveling all over the country. That's mostly what I did.

And your friends, I guess, were people in that world. Yes. Yeah. Some of them, like my friend Steve Graham, I'm still really tight with. Yeah. And what makes you go from that to comedy? Well, it's kind of an interesting transition.

Fear of brain damage. Right. There was a little bit of that. Because I was definitely aware that I was getting hit in the head too much. Especially when I started kickboxing, I had three kickboxing fights. And when I was training for kickboxing,

which I did for more than a year, there was a lot of getting hit in the head. There was a lot of hard sparring rounds. And then I was also watching a lot of other people that I saw that had brain damage. I was like, ugh. Like, this guy is not who he used to be. Like, he's slipping.

And then I realized like, oh my god, this is happening to me. And there was no money in it. There was no UFC back then. So this is 1988, 89. I feel like you gotta get out. Yeah, I had to get out. And I had to get out soon before I ruined my brain.

And then also, fortunately, my friend Steve that I was talking about earlier, he was one of the people that told me I should be a comedian. Because we would go on these trips to go to fighting tournaments, right? Oftentimes we'd be on a bus or we'd travel by car together.

And we'd be bored. And I would be the one who made everybody laugh. And so if we were getting ready to spar, everybody would be super nervous. And I would say the most inappropriate shit and get laughs out of people. And once I knew that I could get laughs, then I would just try to do it.

Whenever I knew people were nervous, I would say the inappropriate thing or do impressions of people, or impressions of our instructor having sex. So you just established yourself as kind of the funny dude? It was silly. Yeah, silly and funny. And it was like, it was gallows humor.

Because everybody was so scared. And it also would alleviate some of the pressure of getting scared before you go to a tournament. We're all scared. And so my friend Steve said, you really should be a fucking comedian. Yeah. And I go, ah, man, you think I'm funny because you like me.

I go, other people are gonna think I'm an asshole. And he's like, you should just go and just see an open mic night and try it. And so I did. I went to an open mic night. Were you hooked on night one? Yeah, pretty much. Richard Jenney had a great point.

He goes, horrible comedians are amazing in that they inspire people to try it. Because you look at someone who's terrible and you go, well, I can do that as bad as that guy. I'll give it a shot. And that's what open mic night was to me. I had thought of stand up like Jerry Seinfeld or Richard Pryor.

I thought like, I can't do that. These guys are too good. Then you go to open mic night and you go, oh, some of these people are terrible. And they're doing it and like, I can kinda do it like they're doing it, maybe a little better than them. Maybe I could do this. And then on the same night, like there was,

like Jonathan Katz was the host of the open mic night from Dr. Katz. In Boston. Yeah, he was the host of open mic night the first time everyone on stage. And then on that night, some other real professionals went on like Teddy Bergeron went on. I got to see him go on and I got hooked immediately.

So I did my first set and then I almost chickened out. I got really close to chickening out. Oh my God, I came that close to pussying out. And then once I did it, I was hooked. And then I started doing it all the time. And you got successful pretty quick. Pretty quick. Yeah, I mean, luckily in Boston,

you could get work pretty quick. So like within one year of doing open mic nights and we, I mean, Fitz Simmons and I started out together and we would draw, Greg and I would drive together to Rhode Island to do 10 minutes. So we drive 90 minutes to 10 minutes for free. What year was that? 88.

Wow. Yeah. We both started in 88. We both started within a week of each other. So you would go to comedy, everybody smoking cigarettes. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You know, old school.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Bars were filled with improv comedy. Oh yeah, yeah. There was no idea, like there was no non-smoking. Right, right, yeah. Every bar had smoked. Just everything smoked.

Everything had smoked. And everyone smoked. Right. It was crazy. So you would go up, do the 10 minutes, sink or swim, killer bomb, and then you would be back on the road. Yep. And then we would try to go to a different place.

Like we would go to a couple different spots at night if we could. You know, sometimes we knew another guy, went another room. Did you know back then would you look at certain people and go, that guy's gonna make it? A lot of people I thought were gonna make it, they didn't. And what do you attribute a lot of that to?

Why do you think a lot of funny people, because I've seen that now, I've been doing it about 11 years, probably almost 12 years now. A lot of people I was like, that person was really funny. And they didn't get to that next level. I don't know, man. Yeah.

I don't, I mean, I think there's a bunch of factors. A lot of it is drinking. Yeah, that's one. A little too much. Sometimes, drinking or drugs. That could be it, but it's also, there's psychology involved. Yeah.

The mind games that the unknown and the uncertain play on people. Sometimes people just crack. That's right. They just can't take it anymore. Just like we were talking about fame, people crack under fame. Like they get to a certain point

where they can't handle this anymore. They can't handle it. They don't know what's real. Right, they crack under that. They crack under the pressure of not knowing if they're gonna make it. I mean, I've seen that in actors too. Like, I've been friends with actors

that were like, they'd get on a show and then, you know, they'd audition for another show and then maybe not make it, but maybe have like another callback for the thing and they're always in flux. And they would go crazy because they didn't know like, what am I doing with my life? What is happening?

Is this gonna work out? And they'd start crying, freaking out. It's like, just the uncertainty and the unknown. For some people, it's just too much. It's too much. Some of them are really fucking talented. Some of them are really funny. And then there's a lot of people

that are somewhat mediocre, but they have mastered the unknown. Yeah. Like that's... Well, this is delusional. Yeah, there's crazy people out there that can channel that into certitude. And then they start convincing themselves,

like they've convinced themselves they're great. And then they start convincing everyone else. And it's kind of like the emperor has no clothes where everyone's like, I guess they're great. Well, I don't even know about that. But one thing that some mediocre people do is they're not funny at all, but they've managed to stay around.

Right. Like here they are, 10 years later, 15 years later. He's still here. He's still going up, hosting that show with the, you know, whatever. Still doing it. Still doing it. Do you think people that are starting comedy now

are, is it going to be a completely different world? Where I tend to think now people that are starting are going to have to go to the internet. And almost the same way that you were taking a beating at open mics and things like that, they're almost going to have to take a beating online in front of a digital audience to build their thing. Because the, the mainstream or the legacy industry

seems to, of comedy seems to be dying. So even though they'll be getting good at standup on the side, if they don't have other components. What, what do you mean by the mainstream of comedy is dying? Meaning that the idea of moving to New York or LA and doing 20 sets a week, and then getting the Montreal Comedy Festival and then getting the booker at the club

to see one like you. And then getting a special on HBO. All that seems to be dying. I know so many people with our specials and nobody's watching them, right? Or so many people with late night TV shows like they're hosting them and no one cares. Yeah, that's true.

And, and they're not making that much money. And it seems to be a smaller and smaller circle of people that this is mattering to. Every day the internet's expanding. It seems to be getting bigger and bigger. And the people that have a platform online, a digital platform seemed to be getting more and more attention.

So to me, isn't there an inevitable shift coming to where comics really are just gonna have to compete digitally? I think the digital aspect of it is the best way to promote themselves for sure. Whether it's through putting their stuff online on a YouTube or a rumble or Instagram or whatever they're doing.

Forget her, which you're not on, you're un-get her. That's a news story. I might be a positive Chinese Communist Party now, I believe. Yeah, why are you, it's a news story that you're un-get her. Well, the news story is their, their fucking amount of people that signed up increased by 1,150% or something.

Yeah, you have like 20, you have like nine million followers on get her. Yeah, it's not real though. Is it not real? Because get her doesn't even have nine million people. No. Really? Yeah, it's very, it's a lot of fuckery.

So there's fuckery with that. This is where the fuckery is. They take all my Twitter followers. So my Twitter followers like 7.8 million. Yeah. And then they port those over. So I started out with 7.8 million. So whatever I have now, if I have eight,

it's like really I have 200,000. So get her is Fugazi, as they say. Definitely Fugazi. And every time I post on Twitter, it posts automatically on get her. Oh, interesting. Yeah, like it's automatically done. We are so it's just harvesting your tweets.

And I don't know how to get off. Like if I get off of get her, I don't have to, you have to, you have to sit down with Marjorie Taylor Greene personally. And she's got to tell me all about what's in the basement at Common Pizza. She's got to take you down the rabbit hole. Then you come out the other side of get her.

But yeah, it seems to me that like the, the business is kind of dying. I don't think it is. You don't think it is? No, no, I disagree. You prove it is. No, no, no. That aspect of the business,

as far as like Montreal Comedy Festival and stuff like that being beneficial, that's true, that's dying. But podcasts have taken their place. And comedians now like Brian Simpson, who's got his new Netflix special. Brilliant, one of the best. Yeah, he's working with me this weekend.

He's one of the best. I love him to death. And he, now that he has this huge Netflix special that killed, and he's been on my podcast a couple of times, he's got a career. He's killing it, and he will continue to kill it. So this is where the conversation's done.

But he's not as big as Ranboo. So my point is that, Who's that? Ranboo's a Minecraft streamer Joe. Stop pretending you don't know who he is. Is that real? Yeah, he's a Minecraft streamer. My point is that things are moving quickly.

We can't compare ourselves to Minecraft streams. I understand that, but I'm just saying, yes we can. I was in the news by Will. And Dr. Disrespect has a book. Mr. Beast has a burger. Well, Mr. Beast deserves a burger. He's a brilliant guy. He's got a great show.

Is it good? It's a great show. Yeah, he does a great show. He's a visionary guy. It's a smart thing that he does. He spends a shit load of money on his show. Well, that's what I mean. These are the new stars.

Well, that's just in that world, but those are the new stars in terms of like, that would be, he would be a reality TV star, like 10 years ago. For sure. Now he's a YouTube star, but now he's his own fucking boss, and he's doing it the right way,

which is why it's so successful. The same thing with your podcast. Imagine a world where an executive bank rolls your podcast and says, oh, you're gonna sit together with your friend, Ben, and you're gonna wear cop sunglasses, and you're gonna talk shit about the whole world. What are you talking about? You want me to pay for that?

I get to give several executives that would fund it, but they're all disgraced. Angelo Mozilla with Country Ride, Dick Fould at Lehman Brothers. Exactly. But this is my point, it's like, the world has changed, but there are new avenues that are available. But the world of comedy remains in clubs.

Like you must- Yes, that is true. You gotta be able to get on stage and kill. And we both, that is one of the most important things. It's like, I'm not giving that up. Like stand up, it's fucking awesome, and that is always gonna be a thing that I like to see, and it's always gonna be a thing that I like to do,

and it's always gonna be a thing where people want to go see a comic. They wanna go live, it's a fun thing to do. But don't you wanna get to the point, where people know you so well from the internet, that when you get on stage, they just clap for 45 minutes, you don't even have to write material, and then you can just leave.

You can kind of wave like Princess Diana used to do. I don't think that ever happens. I don't think you ever get that. No, of course not. I feel the heat after about 15 seconds. Of course I know. No, of course you do. I get nervous as soon as I walk on stage,

I get the mic, I go, it's the biggest high you ever have, it's the best thing, it's the best art form. It's also the best thing for the audience, like in terms of like me as an audience member, I love watching someone kill, it's fun. That's right. When I laugh hard, like I'm laughing hard,

it's someone killing. But you're also from a generation of people that leaves their house. That's true. There's a whole generation of people that are scared to leave the room, let alone the house. My audience dies of old age or quit.

You have to keep evolving. You should be on Twitch, you should be streaming. I'm on Spotify. You're a young man, you can keep going. Where's my deal? What did they tell us? Fuck off for the ninth time? Why are they telling you to fuck off?

I attacked the CEO, I said he was a pedophile. It was a joke. That's not real. No one can have fun anymore. I think he said I'm a pedophile too. Yeah, I don't know if I did that, but I said that the CEO was something or other, but they said-

And so he's mad at you? No, he's not mad, but apparently, because they have you, they don't need me. Because we have overlap, and they're still going by the old- They should get you. They're still going by the old numbers that say that this show's bigger than mine.

Those are the old numbers. That's last week. This show's not even on YouTube anymore. I keep telling them it's not even on YouTube. They go, oh no, it doesn't matter. We have the internals in your bed. Honestly, the beautiful thing about Spotify has been the lack of censorship

and the lack of fear of having episodes pulled and all that shit. Spotify has been amazing, and in the beginning, people thought they were going to be worse than YouTube. They've actually conversely been so much better. Yeah, there's been so much better. I think that's just because people are,

they hate change. They hate any kind of new thing that's happening. Also, it's like, they hate someone doing well. So, if someone gets on a big crazy deal and they're making all this money, like, oh, it sucks now. I used to watch, now I hate it. It's fucked, it's the worst.

It's normal, it's normal. So, and also, in the beginning, I did lose a lot. We lost like 50% of our audience almost right away. Jamie was in a frothy panic. Really? Look at him. Well, he's got so many other opportunities. Frothy panic, yeah.

But a year later, we've got as much, if not more. We have more. And it's better, it's bigger than it's ever been. It just had to like catch up. This is just what happens immediately. But I was like, good, let me be 10% less famous. Right, I'll be happy for 25. Give me 25% less fame and more money.

Well, that's not the way it's worked out. Yeah, well, that's funny that you said the NN. You're like, let's be a little less controversial, a little less famous. Well, I was like, And then on the other side of it, you have Fauci trying to drone you outside of your house. It didn't really work for him now.

Yeah. Oh my God, that poor guy. You think so? Yeah, they're coming for him. They held him. 24 security. Look at the Cuomos. Yes.

They held you and held you like the Cuomos. Well, that's a different situation. Right. But the Fauci situation after Rand Paul attacked him for gain of function research, and then people started looking into gain of function research. And it all came from Josh Rogan's reporting.

And Josh Rogan, he was the one who showed that Fauci funding the EcoHealth Alliance, that the NIH funding them, is what started up gain of function research in Wuhan. Like after Obama had put the kibosh on it. And he's still in denial, but the NIH has come clean. NIH has said, yes, it's gain of function research. And Fauci's like, gain of function research

is a very nebulous term. He talks so slow. He gets off to diseases. The guy's a problem. It's amazing his, like, the way he handles where he's obviously cornered. And he just like, jujitsu's his way. Well, he's also been a government guy forever.

He's been a bureaucrat forever. The highest paid government employee. Yeah, and he's paid more than the president. Yeah, and they did a documentary about him, and he's very vain. The documentary about him is the reason they took the thumbs down off of YouTube. It's crazy how vain, how vain he is.

Of course. And how, you know, unwilling he is to give up the spotlight. Even when, as you showed me that Hew Hew Eclipse, people are like, you know, you might accomplish the goal of getting more people vaccinated by stepping aside. Because you're not well-liked or trusted. And it's crazy to watch and react to that.

Yeah. You're crazy. You're crazy. I completely disagree. Yeah. It's my show. If you criticize Anthony Fauci, you're criticizing Zion. Would you have Billy Boy Gates on?

100%. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I think that would be interesting. I'd say, how do I get in the club? Yeah. What do I have to do? Well, it's about that time.

You're knocking on that door. How do I get a yacht? Dude, what if you just reversed everything you said tomorrow, like it would be kind of hilarious? Turn around. If you just went in here tomorrow and go, you know, I slept on it. And I've decided.

I got double-vaxed last night. Yeah, you go, I got double-vaxed last night. I took full shots at the same time. I had a great sleep. And I have the CEO of Pfizer and Moderna here and Hillary Clinton. And we're all going to tell you, everything's OK. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe that's the move. Does it scare you to be at the level of prominence you are with like a family? Just the idea of like, as the kids grow up and they hear things on the news, is it harder for you to explain to them like? It is what I do.

Yeah. I mean, it's not easy to explain, but nor would it be easy to explain if I was a hit man. You know, it's like, what do you do? Well, those aren't the only two options. That's how I live. I have one or two choices. Either I go out like the punisher.

Right. I mean, I like that. But so do they ever ask, or is it, are they not? Yeah, they think it's funny. But they think it's funny because I think it's funny. That's right. Like, when I come home, like, daddy's in trouble again. Right.

Oh, the government's mad at daddy. Yeah. You know, like, I guess if I really tweaked, they would probably tweak, too. But you set that standard of like, this is part of the job, part of the business. It's part of the gig, man. You know, it's that if you can't take the heat expression.

Right. It shouldn't be in this business. Right, absolutely. So the business of opinions. You know, we're in the business of opinions. Yeah. And it's a weird fucking business because people, it's hard for people to have opinions today.

Because of corporate structures, human resources, you know, you want to make it up the corporate ladder, and there's an ideology that your company has. And if it's left wing or right wing, you have to toe that line. Like, it's fucking hard for people to just have opinions. And even if they do have opinions, when do they have the time to talk about it?

That's right. The thing about talking about opinions like we do, where you sit and talk for hours and hours, nobody has the time to do that. What have you learned, I think, through this whole period, not only just the last year, but the last few years, about the way that friendships work at your level? Because everybody wants something from you, right?

You have this platform. You can share it with people. Everybody wants to get on the show. Everybody wants maybe you to endorse there. I have friends who call me, they're like, yo, tell Joe about this weed opportunity. I'm like, are you on drugs? And they are.

But like, how do you deal with just that, whereas all these different people? I have to say no to a lot of things. You say no to a lot of people. And sometimes, yeah, and sometimes it's uncomfortable. Like, sometimes people won't let it go. And you know. And you said people will come at you

all different ways, friends, wife, friends, trying to get in there. Yeah, it's an issue. I mean, I changed my phone number a lot. I've got to change it again. Changed it last year. I've got to change it again. And I have several phones.

I have four phones now. I used to have three now. I have four. That's crazy. I have A, B, C, and D. You're A. Congratulations. Oh, congrats. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

You're the fun I carry. But there's a lot of people that I check there. I check that phone once a week. Right. Yeah. And maybe not even. Who's the best guest you've had other than me in the last seven or eight years, would you say?

Just so many good ones, man. Yeah. Is there anything? I mean, so many serious ones. So many funny ones. What stands out in my head is Peterson. Yeah. Classic.

Yeah, he's awesome. Bob Lazar. Oh, yeah. That was a great one. That's a great episode. I don't know if he's full of shit or not. Mike Tyson is great. I've had a lot of great ones, man.

Elon. Elon is always a great one. And Alex. Yeah. Alex is great. I've had so many great ones, so many comics. One of the things that we've been doing is me, Shane Gillis, Mark Norman, and Ari Shafir.

We do this thing called the cuddle party. Yeah. We're the four of us. And we get fucking hammered and talk the most shit. And then afterwards, panic. Maybe we should cut that part out. Oh, that's when you know it's good. That's when you know an episode is good.

Gillis was hammered. We've only had one person, and it was Janis Pappas, come on our show where we couldn't use any of it. Because he just starts attacking, screaming about Ali Wong. I mean, he's mentally ill. We love him, but he's mentally unwell. And we know that.

He's had too many heroes. Yeah. And so we just couldn't use it. But God love him. But yeah, those are when you know they're good episodes. Yeah. Well, those are the ones with comics are my favorite, because I feel the most at home.

I mean, look, I wear a lot of different hats, for lack of a better term, when I do this thing. It's very strange. Sometimes I'm talking to a scientist. Sometimes I'm talking to someone who wrote a book about the environment. Sometimes I'm talking to a psychologist. Sometimes I'm talking to a comedian.

Sometimes I'm talking to a fighter. Sometimes I'm talking to an event. It's a weird gig, man. And it's only me that's booking them. That guy looks like fun. How do people get on? People ask me all the time, how does somebody get on that? I seek people out.

I said, yeah, I think I'm like, he just has to want you to come on. Yeah, that's it. There's no other way on. Right. I have to say yes. Like there's literally no other way on. Because there's also giving me $25,000.

And what that'll do is increase the likelihood. It'll help. It'll help. But it's not an exact. I have done that once. Really? Yes. I didn't take the money, but he paid a friend.

My friend was broke. And he told me, hey, this guy told me that if I get you on, I get him on your podcast, he'll give me $25,000. That was the exact number, which is funny to that. And I said, listen, I said, I would have that guy on anyway, because he's really interesting. So yes. I love you, so you take the money, and then I'll have him on.

But I would just let you know I would have had him on anyway. But don't tell him that and get that money. Good for you. But yeah, there's no way on. There's just you have to be interested in what somebody is saying. That's one of the beauties of the podcast is that it's only what I'm interested in.

So whether it's talking to Bob Lazar, or talking to a fighter, or talking to an artist, like people, I have to be interested. And I'm like, I'd like to talk to that guy, or Oliver Stone, who was on today. I was like, Oliver Stone wanted to come on. And I don't know if you've seen his new fucking Kennedy documentary. It's amazing.

Holy shit. I haven't seen it, but it's fucking amazing. And there's a four hour one that's coming out. It's on Showtime right now, until the end of February. At the end of February, it's everywhere. And he's going to release a four hour version. Wow. Yeah.

It's fucking fantastic. So this leave will leave no doubt that it's a coup. Oh my god. There's no doubt with the two hour one. But he says it's even deeper with the four hour one. But like having Oliver Stone on, like fuck yeah. Quentin Quarantito, fuck yeah. Those kind of people.

It's like, it's just who I'm interested in. Can I talk to that person? Yeah, let's get him. Go get him. Go get him. Let's get him. Let's do it. Sure.

That's what it is. Yeah. And that's one of the reasons why the podcast works is because there's never a moment like, do you remember that Bill Hicks bit about Jay Leno sitting there talking to Joey Lawrence? And his blood splatters like the NBC Peacock. Because he's a company man to the bitter end.

But it's that Jay Leno really didn't want to talk to these guys. That's the bit. Like, hey, Joey Lawrence, no. You got a girlfriend? What's going on? Well, maybe. You talk to people you want to talk to.

Exactly. Like there's no one gets on unless I'm interested. And so much of the rage I think at you is that you've really found this way to monetize enjoying stuff and satiating your curiosity and having these long, meaningful conversations. And you've revolutionized the long-form discussion. And all of these other media figures

that supposedly could have done it or fancy themselves to be intellectuals and to be none of them did it. You did it. A comedian, an MMA commentator, you did it. None of them did it. It's weird. So I think a lot of the rage at you comes from that. It's that you took a chance on yourself

and it worked out and none of them did. Well, it's weird, too, in that it became long-form just because that's what I wanted to do. Like Ari was like the fucking most adamant person telling me, you got to change it. You got to edit it. Tell me. I'm telling you right now, you're fucking up.

I go, how am I fucking up? He goes, you got to edit your show. Too long. I go, well, then don't listen. Right. I love that. When he goes, people won't listen, you go, they don't have to. Yeah, I'm like, I don't care.

I was making nobody. I was making $0 and I was doing it every week. And it got to the point where there was one time when me and Red Band were sitting around, he goes, do you know how many downloads this gets? I go, no. And he goes, that episode got a million downloads. And it was like a record skip.

Yeah. I go, what? What? Yeah, where is that? A million downloads. Ari has great advice. He told me once that I should put out a tweet about Kobe Bryant and I didn't.

So thank God. But just so sometimes he is wrong. Sometimes. Sometimes he's wrong. Yeah. He's a funny guy. But have you ever seen his dick and balls? Every day.

I mean, I let him stay at my rental and text me this video. I mean, all he does is expose himself indecently. His balls don't look like they'll belong with his dick. I told him that his balls seem like his dick is a hermit crab and stole his balls from someone else and they live inside of it. He's completely out of his mind. So you're here with me in spirit chip, so happy new year.

Look at those balls. It's insane. They're so big. It's like elephantitis. They're like a giant chimp. Yeah. You know, chimps have huge balls. It's like elephantitis.

It's crazy. How does a family like Texas love it? They love it. Yeah, they love it. They love it. Yeah, man. It's fucking great here. Yeah.

People are so much more relaxed. And what I think is really important, and what I'm doing here with the club and the podcast here, is I'm completely removing myself from the influence of Hollywood. Right. Because when you're in LA, you're still in it. You're still in it.

It's contagious. Yeah. It's in the air. And you're like, ew, I got it on me. Like that disingenuous bullshit for that fake sort of behavior that they do, that stuff gets into our business. We have those actor types that kind of like they dance in both worlds.

And they have like one foot in the actor world, one foot in the little tweet about stuff. Like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you talking about that? Because they're in these both worlds. And that world, it contaminates things. Right. And comedy needs to have its own center,

where it's like comedy is 100% the thing. It's not comedy to become a sitcom star or a comic. I want to tell young comics, and I want to help them and say, hey, you don't have to do anything else. You can just do comedy. You don't have to have any be hire you for something. You can be completely autonomous.

And you could have all this freedom to do podcasts, do other people's podcasts. And we all will work together as an organic network. And you can just practice stand-up, which is what everybody loves. Everybody loves stand-up. You do those other things because you think that's what you have to do for a career.

But ultimately, I remember being on news radio. I remember being on this fear factor in particular. And seeing people that I knew that I started out with, they were killing it in theaters. And they were on the road all the time. And I would be jealous. And I'd be like, god, I wish I was doing that. But I was trapped.

Not trapped, obviously. It's a good trap. But I was doing a show. And I was like, I can't travel. I have this show I have to do all the time. I could travel very rarely. And I remember thinking, god, this like cements in my head that I really love stand-up.

I love money. It's nice about money is you don't have to worry about money. Because if you don't have money, then you worry about money. But if you can have a clear head, and once you get money, don't think, oh my god, I hope this doesn't go away. Now I have to play everything safe. And I have to really play by the rules

so I get more of this Hollywood money. Instead, what I did was go, OK, good. Now I've got some money. Now I can just be free. Now I'm going to just do what I want to do. And then the podcast thing came out of that because it was completely organic. There was no thought whatsoever about it being profitable.

It's zero. Yeah. And the club, you're going to open in a few months. And then a lot of people will come probably to the club from other places, too. Well, I hope so. Because you have a huge fan base, and people will come. The goal is to be as supportive as possible

to the stand-up community. To make an awesome place where audiences can come, have a great time. Comics can come and know they're safe, and they're going to have fun there. We're going to make it so that you are going to require the booster. Everyone gets a booster before you go on stage every time.

I think there's a waning period where people are like, well, the vaccine effectiveness has dropped off. Maybe if you keep hitting people, it'll come back. Just boost them every fucking week. And maybe if you die, you are supposed to. I mean, people are always saying that the roads are too crowded here. For sure.

But what if we boost a lot of people and whack a few? I mean, that makes a lot of sense. I want to thank you for taking your time and your busy guy. Ben's going to get you. We promise you $50. Ben, go to the ATM. Get him the money. I want to thank you.

I want to thank you for being one of these new up and coming people that's very exciting. And I think you're paving the way for a lot of people that are seeing what you're doing, seeing you're courageous, you're a wild motherfucker. You get chances. You're smart. It's awesome.

Well, thank you for doing this. I'm happy to be a friend. Well, I am happy to be your friend. And thank you for giving me the strength to be a gamer and be trans. Good night. Thank you. Thank you, Joe.