The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka - 151. Dr. Brian Mogen: CTO of Hapbee Discusses the Science of Biohacking Sleep

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

Most people struggle to fall asleep fast — tossing and turning for hours. What if you could trick your body into deep sleep without popping pills? In this episode with Dr. Brian Mogen, we discuss this game-changer device! It’s called Hapbee — a wearable that beams compound signals like melatonin into your body. This isn’t just cool science — it’s practical. Imagine slipping on a necklace, hitting a sleep setting, and drifting off in minutes. Want better sleep without the downsides of meds? Check out Hapbee — it’s like biohacking your brain with a push of a button. HAPBEE - FEEL BETTER & PERFORM AT YOUR BEST: https://bit.ly/4a6glfo Join the Ultimate Human VIP community and gain exclusive access to Gary Brecka's proven wellness protocols today!: https://bit.ly/4ai0Xwg Connect with Brian Mogen: Website: https://bit.ly/4a6glfo  YouTube: https://bit.ly/4hI3su3  Instagram: https://bit.ly/41ZuLu7  Facebook: https://bit.ly/41WHcXv  TikTok: https://bit.ly/4hKhPhB  X.com: https://bit.ly/4iTDgy9  LinkedIn:https://bit.ly/41YIUYq  Thank you to our partners: H2TABS - USE CODE “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4hMNdgg BODYHEALTH - USE CODE “ULTIMATE20” FOR 20% OFF: http://bit.ly/4e5IjsV BAJA GOLD - USE CODE "ULTIMATE10" FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/3WSBqUa EIGHT SLEEP - SAVE $350 ON THE POD 4 ULTRA WITH CODE “GARY”: https://bit.ly/3WkLd6E STRENGTH TRAINING EQUIPMENT - THE ULTIMATE HUMAN: https://bit.ly/3zYwtSl COLD LIFE - THE ULTIMATE HUMAN PLUNGE: https://bit.ly/4eULUKp WHOOP - GET 1 FREE MONTH WHEN YOU JOIN!: https://bit.ly/3VQ0nzW MASA CHIPS - GET 20% OFF YOUR FIRST $50+ ORDER: https://bit.ly/40LVY4y VANDY - USE CODE “ULTIMATE20” FOR 20% OFF: https://bit.ly/49Qr7WE PARKER PASTURES - PREMIUM GRASS-FED MEATS: https://bit.ly/4hHcbhc AION - USE CODE “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4h6KHAD CARAWAY - USE CODE “ULTIMATE” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/3Q1VmkC HEALF - GET 10% OFF YOUR ORDER: https://bit.ly/41HJg6S BIOPTIMIZERS - USE CODE “ULTIMATE” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4inFfd7 Watch  the “Ultimate Human Podcast” every Tuesday & Thursday at 9AM EST: YouTube: https://bit.ly/3RPQYX8 Podcasts: https://bit.ly/3RQftU0 Connect with Gary Brecka: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3RPpnFs TikTok: https://bit.ly/4coJ8fo X.com: https://bit.ly/3Opc8tf Facebook: https://bit.ly/464VA1H LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4hH7Ri2 Website: https://bit.ly/4eLDbdU Merch: https://bit.ly/4aBpOM1 Newsletter: https://bit.ly/47ejrws Ask Gary: https://bit.ly/3PEAJuG Timestamps: 00:00 ​Intro of Show 00:53 Dr. Brian Mogen’s Background 01:56 Novel Applications for New Implants in the Spinal Cords 03:44 Science Behind Hapbee Technologies 21:51 Recording the Molecular-Level Energy  24:15 Developing the Technology into Consumer Products 34:40 Sleep as the Core in their User Base 38:00 Improving Sleep Quality with the Hapbee Devices 41:04 Visual Design of the Devices 43:53 Compounds Utilised in the Technology 50:00 Making an Impact with the Hapbee Technology (on Sleep, Mood, Performance) 54:48 Award Received for being the Most Effective Tool for Suicide Prevention 59:38 Advancement of the Base Research 1:02:06 Bio-Stacking Definition and Practices 1:10:10 Connect with Dr. Brian Mogen and Hapbee 1:11:40 ​Final Question: “What does it mean to you to be an Ultimate Human?” The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka Podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is formed. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from this podcast is at the user’s own risk. The Content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their health care professionals for any such conditions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chemotherapy is really awful for people to experience, especially for brain cancer, because you need to take such high doses that it can get through the blood brain barrier. Well, here's a technology that can pass through the blood brain barrier. It seems to me too, the applications are so vast, especially for addiction, for example. Have you looked at any implications for addictions like smoking, vaping? We're starting to look into Veterans Health, being integrated as part of their treatment plan of not being able to sleep or struggling with alcohol or other addictive problems.

In terms of the sleep realm, there's people that struggle with sleep. Talk about some of the compounds that you have for sleep and what you're seeing in the community that's using these so far. There's kind of two areas that we've really seen improvement and surprisingly one. Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brekka, where we go down the road of everything anti-aging biohacking

Longevity and everything in between and today's guest is a fascinating guest You know when I was using his technology my wife and I have been using it for quite some time My staff has been using it for quite some time. You might have seen it on my Instagram I really wanted to go down the rabbit hole of the science And so I contacted the company and they said, we'll bring the scientists in, we'll fly them in, put them on your podcast. You can ask them whatever questions you want

about the origin of this technology, which I think you're gonna find fascinating. But first of all, welcome to the podcast, Dr. Brian Mogan. Thank you so much for having me. I forgot to even introduce you. But you're a distinguished biomedical engineer with a strong foundation in neural engineering and biomedical sciences. What I found fascinating when I was digging into your background was that you earned your PhD in brain-computer interfaces from University of Washington. This is the first time I've ever... I didn't even know that was a thing. No offense.

Fair. There aren't that many of us. There's not that many of you and You focused on translational neuroscience microfluidics and electronics hardware contributing to advancements in neural implants and green brain computer interface technologies And the first thing that came to mind was this like brain implant that that Elon Musk is working on that Yeah, which I but some people have actually already done this there yeah there are human beings with those implants right now and I spent a long time almost eight years studying all the different ways that you could record brain activity decode it signal process it and turn it into action for electrical stimulation

for either changing the way the brain was wired to itself or controlling how your hands and arms move through stimulating your spinal cord. So, I mean, before we talk about the stuff that really freaks me out, I mean, let's talk a little bit about the implications for something like that in spinal cord injuries, which is where a lot of your research was focused, right? Yeah, it was on applied application or novel applications for new implants in the spinal cord. And I think the big takeaway that a lot of people miss there is the vast, vast majority of spinal cord implants aren't a full transection. There aren't that many people that get a full cut

through their spinal cord. There's a lot of residual function. So we were looking at approaches for how can you harness and retrain and use neuroplasticity approaches that work in the brain and neurons in a dish. How can you take that into spinal cord stimulation to strengthen? So, you know, in the spinal cord,

I think of it like thousands, literally millions of tiny, tiny, tiny little hairs kind of all bound together and they're sending information back and forth through the brain, some of it's motor, some of it's coordination, some of it's sensory, but you're saying that there's some of these pathways, let's say that could get damaged, that deal with motor activity, and you could use a sensory pathway to maybe send motor information?

Or even the motor pathway doesn't get damaged 100%. It gets damaged 25%. And that's enough to affect the way you can walk or the way you can use your hands. And you can take the remaining 70% and people are doing spinal cord stem cell implants to try and regenerate and improve that. But our thinking was, can you also use electrical stimulation to just retrain what is still functional and take that and enhance the functionality kind of? Is this kind of the... And just by way of background,

you know, my personal story with his technology is really fascinating, so I'll just throw it out there. I was in Dubai several months ago on an unrelated trip, and one of the sheiks of Bahrain, Sheikh Nasser, contacted me and said, Hey, there's a group over there that happens to be in Dubai right now that I want you to meet with. And there's this really interesting technology

that I've been looking at. I'd love for them to come to your hotel while you're in Dubai. And if the Sheikh of Bahrain calls you and asks you to take a meeting, you kind of take the meeting. He's an amazing guy, by the way. And Sheikh N you and asks you to take a meeting, you know. You kind of take the meeting. He's an amazing guy, by the way. And, and, uh, shake now, sir, if you're listening,

shout out to you, brother. He's a two-time world champion in this incredibly, uh, difficult distance horse race. His family's amazing family. He's crazy about human performance. He actually puts more technology into his horses, I think, than he does into humans. I like joke with him and I'm like,

man, when I die, I wanna come back as one of your horses, man, Olympic swimming pools and altitude sleeping rooms and red light mats, they drape them over and all organic diets. And it's amazing how they're pushing the limits of horse racing over there. So I take this meeting and I'm with a you know partner of mine from the Middle East and I happen to have my CFO with me and this gentleman shows up and he's got this necklace that you've got around your neck right here and

he proceeds to tell me this story about And I'm gonna bastardize it. So the reason why you're here is to clear this up. That sounds good. But essentially that, you know, this company has technology that has isolated these different frequencies that mimic certain compounds in the human body. And the long and short of it is they could mimic caffeine. They could mimic the effects of pain medication,

they could mimic the effects of adenosine in the brain or melatonin in the brain, without putting these compounds into the body, but allowing the body to receive this signal as if it were under the influence of one of these compounds. Now I could, again, over generalize, I could see your PhD brain is like, that's not exactly correct. But I'm telling the story. It's my podcast. So I'm just kidding. So we sit down and he puts these, I put one on, my partner puts one on and my CFO puts one on. And he goes, Listen, I'm just going to dial up this sleep setting, this deep, deep sleep setting. And he starts running this deep sleep setting. I kid you not, within 60, maybe 90 seconds,

my CFO is sitting in the lobby of the Ritz-Carlton in this meeting with us, falling asleep. And so he goes, do you want me to wake you up? I'll run the caffeine setting. So a few minutes later, he turns on this caffeine setting and it shuts off the impulses for the influence of things like melatonin and I think it was THC and it starts the impulse for the influence of caffeine.

And he literally woke right up. And then the rubber really hit the road because he set it on a THC setting. My CFO, if you're listening, Isaac, I love you brother, but you're going under the bus on this one. And he's sitting there in this meeting. We're in Dubai, very formal meeting. We've met for the first time. He's got this thing around his neck and he starts running this THC setting and a few minutes later he starts having a fit of giggles and his eyes look watery and he takes a fist and he kind of bumps my partner in the in the leg and goes you gotta try this bro which is not how my CFO speaks and then he started

apologizing he started laughing and they shut it back off turn on the caffeine setting and he was bright you know know, like wide awake again. Had I not seen that, or somebody had told me that the technology could do that before this meeting, I probably wouldn't have taken the meeting, just given the limited information that I have and the fact that like my BS meter would have been up so high, but I witnessed it firsthand.

And then of course, all of us were like, how do we get one of those? How do we get one of those? And we, we all threw them around our neck. We started playing with them for the next day, but I flew home two days later from Dubai and there's a deep sleep setting on there. That's, and you can actually set the number of hours and for deep sleep. And I said it for eight hours. Now it could be completely coincidence and completely placebo, but I put my seat flat, yeah, went to the bathroom, brushed my teeth,

did all my stuff, put my eye mask on, I laid down the seat, I turned it on, and I woke up eight hours and two minutes later. And even for me, that as my sleep pattern's pretty dialed in to get eight straight hours of sleep on a plane is completely unheard of. I don't know if I've ever actually slept eight consistent hours without waking.

So something's going on. So I would really love to talk about how your background led to the genesis of this technology. Because we were talking before the podcast about how you always start out to do one thing with a technology and then you start finding out all of these other really interesting verticals and horizontal places where it has applications.

Yeah, I think that's a great transition, because a lot of my before this job research, the startup also, is thinking a lot in terms of inputs and outputs, you can read the brain activity, decode it, and then stimulate the sensory output or the motor output. And I think we can carry that concept through to what HAPI is doing now. And that's what this device is called.

It's called a HAPB, H-A-P-B-E-E. H-A-P-B-E-E, HAPI Technologies. Yeah, so we've been around a few years, but the technology itself actually has come through several stages of development and tends to eat almost 80 million dollars in funding over 15 years of development in a few different stages. Wow And this start in spinal cord injury? Yeah, totally totally unrelated Yeah, the technology itself and and I'm one of the co-founders of

the happy Building consumer facing neck band where I'm not one of the original Inventors 15 years ago. I wasn't that old. Okay Yeah, you look pretty young. Yeah, I was I'm not gonna do the math on how old I was 15 years ago. But yeah, there was a group in the U.S. Navy, the station in California, that was using this new technology called squid magnetometry, superconducting quantum inferometry devices,

basically a way of measuring the smallest magnetic fields that we can measure. Inside of... Just in general, you take a set of electronics, you have to get liquid helium and cool the sensors down to absolute zero so you can record the tiniest little movement. It's a quantum sensing device, and they had built these arrays that they were using to try and sense military targets moving around in the Pacific Ocean, like really shielded nuclear subs,

battleships, thousands and thousands of miles away. Because I've heard somebody say that, you know, even though all these submarines and even warships have all of this technology to conceal themselves, they know where they all are. They probably know where all of our enemy subs are off of our coast, even if the enemy thinks that they're shielded from us. Is this the kind of technology that...

Yeah, it was technology in that realm of trying to detect the tiny magnetic fields. You give off a magnetic field that's created every time an electron moves. So as even, you know even these fields are very tiny, they're always present. There's not a lot of shielding you can do from that. And the core technology itself was being applied in a military application. And kind of this splinter group of research scientists

in that group said, well, we're looking for really big things really far away. What if we rebuilt the machine slightly and instead looked for really tiny things really close up? We know that the electron cloud of drugs is fairly consistent, right? If you think of a drug molecule moving your high school biology ball and stick model is pretty rigid. But in actuality, it's a jiggling, twisting, flexing cloud of electrons moving.

I remember those, you know, we all played with this stick and ball model in chemistry. And I guess that's just a way of getting us to understand, you know, molecular structure at its rudimentary level. But I agree with you. These things are very fluid and their electrons are spinning and protons are spinning and you've got an atom and a nucleus

and there's a lot of activity going on. And it's not a static model. We would take the little sticks out and plug it into another molecule and build molecules. But what you're saying is this this electromagnetic field or this this field that these electrons are creating, that's detectable. Exactly. Yeah, they're there in the history of technology or in the history of happy.

There have been kind of two big scientific, I would say, like inflection points. So the first breakthrough being, okay, we've rebuilt this recording machine in the lab. It's really fancy. It can detect some of the smallest magnetic fields ever recorded. What happens if we put a drug or a compound or a molecule in a biological... Melatonin. ... put it in a life-like situation and apply a voltage and line them all up.

So basically you can line up all the molecules in solution at a certain concentration and then record some of that fuzzy weird movement. How, with detectors very sensitive, can you get unique recordings from different compounds? Hey guys, let's talk about meat for a minute. Did you know that 96% of the beef sold in stores is not grass-fed? That's right, most beef comes from cows fed a grain-based diet in feed lots, which isn't even healthy for you or the cow. And even if a label says grass-fed, that doesn't always mean what you think. It means a cow spent at least 50% of its life on grass. So now if you're ready to eat a real nutrient-dense meat that was raised on a pasture,

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She delivers to all 50 states. So why settle for mystery meat from the store when you can eat meat that nourishes your body and restores the earth? Visit parkerpastures.com today and you'll get 25 bucks off your order. That's parkerpastures.com And get 25 off your first order. Now, let's get back to the ultimate human podcast So so just to hyper simplify it you have a solution and let's say you dissolve melatonin or you dissolve caffeine Or you dissolve melatonin or you dissolve caffeine or you dissolve CBD or any other compound. You're looking at the variance between what the solution resonated at initially and what the field is like. You add this compound and you're saying that's the frequency of melatonin, that's the frequency of caffeine. And I think an important distinction is we're not looking at like a specific frequency. It's not melatonin is 5 Hz and CBD is 10 Hz or 200 Hz.

Each of them is a very complex waveform. I think you're not listening to a single tone in these recordings. It's an entire symphony that's capturing parts of all of that movement and exactly what parts of the molecule the recordings are, we don't actually know yet. But you're getting unique, very complex recordings that are unique to each compound. That's what I was going to ask you. They're unique., repeatably over and over and over and over and over again, these complex recordings are identical.

This fuzzy noise is identical when you have this certain compound. Yes, every time you record melatonin, it's the same fuzzy noise, but it's different from the CBD fuzzy noise. Wow. So, it's not quite as clean as the nice sine waves you see in like neural entrainment products. Or the model you have.

It'd be nice if it was that way, but it's not. So step one was really just being able to record and see in the signal processing world that you're getting different recordings in this machine from different compounds. Yeah. That's, that was a nice little scientific jump. Yeah, I mean, that's massive.

And then the next piece was, well, what happens if you can build a correctly shaped antenna that can replay that recording? And again, you know, think inputs and outputs. We can record the compound, but what happens when we project it? How to transmit it. Yes, and for a large class of molecules,

non-covalent interactions, if you think back to high school biology, that ball and stick model, the receptor and ligand, the lock and key, when they go in together and interact and something happens, when these non-covalent interactions, the lock and the key never actually touch, they just trade electrons in the right pattern. And if we've now got this recording of a compound that we know from traditional cellular biology methods is a non-covalent interaction usually. What happens if we replay that field over biology?

Does it respond as if the drug were there? Wow. So that was the second piece was, okay, now that we're projecting these with a correctly shaped sized right amplitude covering the right biology field. Mm-hmm. Can you start seeing biological outcomes and effects?

You say field, it's not like a speaker, which is sort of this unidirectional sound wave, right? It oscillates, creates a sound wave. We perceive that as a tone. You know, this is actually a moving really kind of a messy field. It's sort of the atomic energy in there, for lack of better words, which is unique to certain compounds. You're actually recording that really fuzzy, staticky kind of,

I remember being at dinner with one of your co-founders and he was telling me how someone that had some either ham radio experience or radio experience was happened to be in the lab and was listening to some of these recordings. And some of the team thought that the recordings were not being picked up. And what he said was,

no, that static that you're hearing, that is what we're looking for. That's the field that we're trying to measure. Yeah, and these recordings are being done very close to the noise floor on the signal processing side of what we're doing. There's all sorts of techniques to try and clean up these very messy recordings to make them better and better. So in a lab you're taking the solution or something and you

are introducing compound and then you are recording the electromagnetic smog if you will that that compound is releasing and that electromagnetic smog, if you will, that that compound is releasing. And that electromagnetic smog, and I'm making up my own words for the record, because I don't have a PhD in biomedical engineering, but this electromagnetic smog, which is unique to that compound, you can not only record it, but then you can replay it. Exactly. Exactly as it occurs. Because if you played it any different, it wouldn you can replay it. Exactly. Exactly as it occurs. Because if you played it any different, it wouldn't be that same. It wouldn't be unique to that compound.

That's got to be, because first of all, the devices that would pick that up is one thing, but the devices that would retransmit at those levels to me seems like you had to invent that side of the equation too. Yeah, and actually the building the hardware and the product I'm wearing right now, two products we've built around this for actually being able to transmit these products. The physics of the transmission are much easier

than the physics of the recording. Oh, wow. Yeah, there's basically all of our products are engineered to have an antenna that creates the right shape and the right amplitude. So your speaker analogy earlier was kind of close on the volume is an important factor. It's got to be within a fairly narrow range, but also the shape of the field where the volume is correct is also important.

So just kind of building out the electronics around, creating the right size fields in the right places so that they cover the relevant parts of your body while you're using them. What's wild to me is that a recording of a compound's field replayed into the body has the same effect as the presence of that molecule. Is that...? I think the key point there that is a wild thing to say a little bit, but also remember,

we know in these non-covalent interactions, the lock and the key don't actually touch. Yeah. Right? They just trade electrons in the right pattern to trade some information and move. And that is what unlocks the receptor, it changes the conformation. And the vast majority of the interactions in our body, unless we're looking at metabolizing something and physically breaking a bond to make energy, are non-covalent. Most of our signal pathways are non-covalent interactions. So you can influence the same level of interaction, whether you have the presence of the real compound or you have the presence of the recording of that compound. That's what we continue to see.

Wow. So let's take this one step further. I don't know if you guys are following this, but I am fascinated by this. because the idea that you could take a compound like melatonin or even caffeine and record its molecular energy, for lack of better words, and then replay that molecular energy into the body and have cellular structures and, you know, gateways that are in the cell wall and the cell membrane, and even probably more importantly the mitochondria, which wall and the cell membrane, and even probably more importantly, the mitochondria, which has its own cell membrane. To play these recordings at this atomic level or at this you know, molecular level, and have those locking key mechanisms respond as if the presence

of that compound is there is fascinating to me because, you know because the implications to me, just like your head wants to just explode because the issues, for example, with narcotic painkillers, for example, aren't the effect that it's exerting at the time, it's all of the codependencies and the addictive cycles and the waste elimination pathways to get a lot of these compounds out of the body. Because as you know,

cellular metabolism is a really dirty process. And when you introduce things into a human body that cells are influenced by, at some point that influence not only diminishes, but it turns into other products that the body now has to get rid of. I mean, you pour gasoline into your engine, you run your car, now it's exhaust, it's vapor, it's going to the atmosphere. It's just these energies are changing their state.

Yeah. And I think there are a couple of points you made that are worth touching on. And in the evolution of the technology, we've seen this also, right? Like the field is wide open in terms of going through all of the possible ways of showing, replicating every single drug. Like we're just starting out on that journey. We haven't been around that long. You know, there are multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical companies that are working

on every mechanism of every drug known to man. And we've had to take a very limited subset so that we can kind of get to market and bring people this, bring the technology. So when did you realize that, because this began as the Department of Defense Technology or military technology, I could see why they would want to know where all the submarines are under the ocean. I mean, that's got to be infinitely complex to listen through, because the amount of noise between wherever your device is reading it and the object that you're trying to detect, I mean, there's all kinds of fish and water and molecules and light and pressure and all

kinds of things going on to be able to find these sounds and record them or at least identify it as that's a submarine, that's a ship, and that's XYZ. What point did you think that you had a commercial product that could benefit humanity like the one that you're wearing right now? And what compounds did you start with? Because I'm just thinking of like you guys sitting around the lab one day and you're like, hey, Stan, we isolated melatonin, you guys start putting these things on and everybody's falling asleep or you get stimulated from caffeine.

How did it go from being this technology, this recording and transmission device into an actual wearable technology? Yeah. So first, I wasn't around for all of that. I got brought in basically at the start of the let's turn it into consumer products. So the origin of the technology really went from we can record these things in the lab. Okay. We are starting to see biological effects.

What would be a really good candidate for proving the technology out first and foremost? And the road that that group of scientists went down was chemotherapy is really awful for people to experience, especially for brain cancer, because you need to take such high doses that it can get through the blood-brain barrier. Well, here's a technology that, in theory, we can pass right through the blood brain barrier without you having to take high doses and it's controllable and it's localized and the cellular mechanisms for how those drugs work are fairly well understood. Can we step through recreating the effects of a brain cancer drug and go to market that

way? recreating the effects of a brain cancer drug and go to market that way. Wow. And in the consumer space, so there's a big body of academic research on that, those specific pathways. Right. And then the story as it was told to me was one night while they had the machine, that's a very expensive process to cool the machine down and keep it cool, it's not always going. so you do recordings in batches but somebody had brought in

some alcohol so somebody went rogue and Decided well, what if the machines already? What if we just I just have We just record it. Yeah already on what if we just I just happen to have some whiskey if we just record it yeah so they recorded the alcohol so they recorded recorded and then you know a couple weeks later after the processing somebody decided well we don't really know what's going to happen but can we just give it a try? Yeah, play the freak. Go rogue again and give it a try. And it didn't take very long for those guys to realize that, oh no, I feel a couple

of drinks in five minutes in and this is a definitely an alternative to what people are doing right now. And that was about the time I had been finishing my PhD. I was doing another startup earlier on in the physical therapy rehab space. And I got a call one day saying, hey, I think we're going to try and spin this out into a consumer product. You know electronics, you know a little bit of software, you know, you know, recording stimulation closed loop technology. You want to, you want to come do this? Were you like fascinated by it?

Yeah, I had been following the technology for a little while because it was on, you know, when you look at PMF, when you look at transcranial magnetic stimulation, when you look at TACS, there's electrical stimuli, there's all these modalities. And here's one that, while it is also magnetic, is very unique. Most of these technologies are fairly single use. When you think of a device for a specific purpose, it's a vagal nerve stimulator for X. It is a protocol for X if it's on your neck.

It's for X if it's in your ear. It's for Y if it's mediated through your median nerve on your wrist. It's for Z. But this is a technology platform that can be multifunctional. The same piece of hardware can be used for multiple different use cases. Wow. So now someone's in the lab, they have some alcohol, they record the, well, I keep saying electric smog, for lack of better words. They record this cloud, this field,

that is the way that the molecule of alcohol is resonating. And then they take that recording, and then they return that recording back into the body and the person is under the influence of alcohol, or feels like they're under the influence of alcohol. And when they turn it off, they're no longer under the influence.

Because I've actually heard of you guys having parties with these things where you put them over everybody's head and everybody gets a little dose of alcohol and everybody's kind of social and buzzing around. And then when it's time to go, you shut it off and give everyone a little caffeine and out the door they go and your bone sober and your blood alcohol level zero or near zero.

And you're not under the influence of anything. Yeah, we did a pop-up activation actually earlier this year. We ran the world's first completely non-alcoholic bar in Dublin, Ireland. Literally people came in you put this necklace over their head gave them a zero and our Hypothesis was if we can convince them that they're enjoying the sensations, a group of people with a very specific view on how you're supposed to imbibe,

if we could get... Imbibe! You're not very popular over there. They take your beer very seriously in Ireland. If we could convince them that the experience of fusing happy, traditional and a beverages was, was enjoyable. You know, we felt very confident that we can convince anybody. So how did that go? Did you actually have it at a pub? Oh, yeah, we took over on the south side of Dublin, and a bar for about 60 days.

Yeah. And then I'm just I'm fascinated by the recruiting process Were you like hey who wants to come in and not get drunk but get drunk without drinking and wear this necklace Like yeah, it was already a pub that had a strong NA Because they don't see a bunch of burly Irish dudes bearded going yeah mate I want to participate There were there were certainly people that walked in the door that were very confused Yeah, but That's wild. So you put all these... You put these happy devices over everybody's neck.

You run the frequency of alcohol. And they felt under the influence. Did you monitor their... Did you give them questionnaire? We did questionnaires before and after and then just, you know, general. Did you... What did you feel? Describe it, did you feel something, how confident were you, and also,

did you enjoy the experience also? Right. Technology without an application isn't a really great technology. Right. So. And then, and when it was all said and done, you shut it off, maybe ran the caffeine,

five to wake them back up. But there was no, they may have been under the influence of alcohol, but there's no alcohol in their bloodstream. So the liver's not processing this, the liver's not turning it into acetylaldehyde, their blood's not getting acidic, they're not damaging their brain, they're not going to the vasoconstrictive process, all of the downsides that we have with alcohol, because I think alcohol, like so many other things, we're willing to make this exchange. We're gonna take some of the bad to get the good.

Oh, it removes my social inhibitions. I get it's gonna interrupt my sleep. I'm gonna wake up with a headache tomorrow, but I'm gonna have a really good night. And you could probably say this for all kinds of things. I'd rather not take Tylenol or ibuprofen because I know it's hard on my liver or hard on my gut microbiome,

but the pain is worth, the detriment of the pain is worth the downside that some of these compounds have. It is absolutely, I'm still fascinated by this. It is absolutely fascinating to me that you can isolate this electromagnetic smog, for lack of better words. You can impart this frequency into the body

and then the body reacts as though it's under that influence and as soon as you remove it, that influence stops. Like many of you, the hardest thing for me is to shut off my mind at night when I want to sleep and it's funny because sometimes I'll wake up tired already thinking of when I'll get back to bed again but exactly the moment that I lay my head on the pillow it feels like the machine of crazy what-if thoughts has turned back on. Does this happen to you? Let me tell you my new secret to deal with this. You may have heard of magnesium breakthrough by bi-optimizers and how great it is for sleep and promoting calmness and relaxation. What I found out is that the brains behind magnesium breakthrough have taken it to the next level with a product specifically designed

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Yeah, and as a natural activation process, there is still a roll off, right? Most of these pathways are pathways and when you kick them off, other things happen. So yeah, not zero seconds instant, but in terms of something like caffeine affecting your sleep because you had coffee at three o'clock and it's still in your body at 11 p.m. We're talking about effect roll-off and users

seeing the ability to not recognize sensation anymore on the order of minutes, single digit minutes versus hours and hours. I mean, so for people that can't sleep, I mean, my wife and I have both been using it. I haven't been popularizing it just because, number one, I didn't think that people would even believe it. And then secondly, I wanted to use it for a long enough duration of time that I knew it wasn't just placebo, that it was actually having a material effect. One of the things that your team brought over to my house

a few weeks ago was a sort of soft mattress form, kind of like this thing. This is actually it. It was larger than this one. And we were in the middle of the meeting during dinner and they walked me back to my bedroom and I took my house manager with me and we laid down on this pad and they ran,

I think it was adenosine, THC and melatonin. There was a combination of three things. And within just a few minutes, I could feel it like sinking me, pulling me into the mattress and I really wanted them to leave and let me go to sleep but they didn't. No offense guys, but and then they, you know, I put the necklace on, ran the caffeine setting

and I was legitimately back awake. So the implications, the potential implications of this are astounding. And you touched on sleep as kind of the core piece in our user base right now, right? We've broadly taken these recordings. We have seven different compounds there. The thought early in the company's idea was most drugs, the vast majority of drugs,

if you take a statin, you don't feel it. Right. How do we how do we prove to the people who use the product? And how do we build the form factors in a way that matches their daily lives? We have the the wearable for for during the day, and then what we actually ended up seeing on the customer journey was that we're going through, okay, what are people actually playing? What are they doing? And to this day, over 70% of the content played

on our platform is related to sleep. Yes, because I mean, sleep is our human superpower, and most people really struggle with sleep without getting tranquilized to go to sleep, right? I mean, we're not talking about zolapenem, nitrate, niacinam, linestah, all those things, annex that actually just tranquilize you to go to sleep, which I would argue is actually not really sleeping if you look at sleep quality when you're under the influence of a lot of people. Most professionals agree with that. Okay. You don't see an improvement of sleep quality, you see a duration of not being conscious or aware,

if that's what you wanna call it, and they're interpreting that as sleep. Which I guess is better than not getting any at all. But the idea that you could actually mimic some of these natural compounds, so in terms of the sleep realm, because there's a lot of people that struggle with sleep and don't want to take sleep medication

and also don't like the influence that it has on them sometimes the next morning, groggy, exhausted, poor focus, taking hours to sort of get out of the mud and get your day going. Don't drive heavy machinery. Don't drive heavy machinery. So talk about out of the mud and get your day going. Don't drive heavy machinery. Don't drive heavy machinery. So talk about some of the compounds that you have for sleep and what you're seeing in the community

that's using these so far. Cause I think a lot of my audience would be very interested in, you know, if I could take this thing on a plane and lay down on top of it or even put it in my bed and sleep on it and this can hold me in deep sleep. I'm in, but what are you using to do that? Yeah, so we're, I would say three things have been

kind of the go-to stack for people improving their sleep and the vast majority of our users track their sleep with an aura ring or a whoop or through Apple help or Google Fit. So we're seeing pretty impressive increases in sleep quality across the board. But it's coming into- So sleep quality is not just duration

that they're in bed. You're saying REM sleep, deep sleep. Sleep latency. Sleep latency, okay. Yeah, there's, I would say there's kind of two areas that we've really seen improvement and surprisingly one, and this was the evolution of the company as well, was people using CBD or alcohols and anxiolytic before going to bed. My problem going to sleep- And anti-an anxiolytic before going to bed. My problem going to sleep isn't while I'm sleeping, it's anti-anxiety before I go to bed because

I lay there for hours at a time and I can prep myself for getting ready to go to bed. My sleep routine starts well before I lay down on a mattress. So we had users that were sending in customer service tickets saying, well, it has been great, but like it's really uncomfortable to fall asleep with it Yeah rubberized all-day wearable neckband Some of your new iterations I've seen some of the future they almost look like pendants Yeah, so where they're they're actually very attractive or you know straight pendants almost almost like jewelry that would go on your shirt you wouldn't even notice. And maybe somebody that you're talking to wouldn't even notice you were wearing it. And do you wear this thing all the time?

Because when we sat down, you said you were running nicotine. I guess that's for your alertness. And I think the other thing we've seen with all of these users is it's very personalized. And that's been the whole the view on the platform is give users the choice to do the things that they want to help, they want help with whether it's sleep or not. Like my number one use, I will use it to help fall asleep on flights and stay asleep on flights while traveling. And then the other one is mid afternoon.

I live in Seattle and will admit that I have a coffee problem. But in the in the afternoons, I also get hit on the afternoon slump very bad. So being able to have an alternative to turn to at one or two o'clock in the afternoon that isn't going to affect my structure of sleep, but keep me focused and awake and alert. So if I was able to actually see or view this electromagnetic field, right? Like turn the lights off and with the black light that detect electromagnetic field kind of thing,

what would it look like is happening around your neck right now? It would be a cloud. It's not just a frequency. Yeah, you actually wanna hand me that one next to you there? This one? Yeah. Okay.

So the device itself is fairly simple. There's some electronics that are a light and a button, but when it's on and creating a projection, it's about seven inches above and below. You can kind of think of it like a volume. So that's a coil inside of there. So yeah, it's a coil inside here making a uniform magnetic field that all sees the same field amplitude and direction.

So we can basically project above and around where the wearable is. So that's going down into my chest and up into my brain. Yep, brain, spinal cord. And our library of compounds now are things that are interactive. And that was part of the piece, right? Our sleep pad coil is larger so that it can make its way through your pillow and give you that same level of coverage

for melatonin over the course of the night, or adenosine as you lay down to help build sleep pressure. So you it's it looks like a giant field like I remember you know when I was growing up the the coolest thing were those electrostatic lights it had like a glass bulb in it had a bulb in the middle member and had the glass ball around it I'm dating myself with this and you'd put your hand on it and all the electricity would go to your hand It was like the coolest thing, you know in 1988 and So this is like a field maybe without all the electricity and stuff

But this is a field and you put this field you put your your mercy your your brain and your spinal cord and your and your chest and your body into this field and wherever that field is transmitting, your cellular structures within that field are responding as if they're exposed to that. Yeah, and that's one of the things that's- It's still so fascinating to me. Important about magnetic fields versus electric fields.

Yeah. Right, they're two sides of the same coin, but the electric fields get attenuated by a whole bunch of stuff. Your skin, your skull, the salt water sack that your brain sits in. By the time something on the outside of your head actually puts simulation into your brain, it's been spread out and muddled pretty severely. Whereas magnetic fields will pass through the blood brain barrier, will pass through bone, will pass through fluid, no problem,

unless you have a giant steel plate in your head. But the, and these magnetic fields are the transmission field that you're using to reach the target tissue. So what are some of the compounds that you're using for sleep that you've using for sleep that you've now recorded and that you can transmit? Yeah, so on the sleep side we're looking at adenosine and melatonin, the hormone for regulating circadian rhythm and sleep-wake cycle, and adenosine, which is the complement of caffeine. In fact, adenosine is the natural version of

complement of caffeine. In fact, adenosine is the natural version of caffeine. Caffeine blocks adenosine receptors to keep you awake. Adenosine builds over the course of the day to make you feel sleepy in the evenings. And then caffeine blocks adenosine. One of the reasons why I tell people to actually delay their coffee intake 60 to 90 minutes is to allow that buildup to occur so that you actually have a greater effect from caffeine than doing it sort of, you know, just opening your eyes and whacking back a coffee, you know, giving your, giving those adenosine receptors time to saturate because when caffeine competes with more receptors, it has a positive effect. But this could have the same effect as caffeine or does have the same effect of caffeine without

the presence or the downside. So where do you see this technology going? Because you know your head explodes when you start thinking of all of the different compounds that it would be incredible to introduce to your cellular biology without the negative side effects of the processing of those compounds. Yeah, and our view on it has been, what can we get people right now? And where then does the future go? And as I said earlier, the initial focus was seven compounds that when you wear the device, you can feel, right?

Let's start with things that are discernible. And let's start with a product line of things where people can actually use the product today and kind of go from there. So that's why we've got a wearable, we've got a slide in your pillow or under your pillow sleep pad. And the piece from there, Nexus is what are the tools now that you can control this digitally by delivery, but also digitally by all of the factors that you have available to you as part of building a healthy digital habit on your phone, right? You can choose when to use compounds, you can build schedules, you can think, how do we tie this into everyday life and behavior. And we've started with

just giving people free reign control of push play and go. And for me, the future is really coming back to what are the pieces of closing this loop, right? There are a lot of especially in the in the biohacking space, there are a lot of measurement, there's a lot of inputs. We've got the difference of wrist mounted wearables and finger mounted wearables and chest straps and respiration. There are a lot of things we can measure. There are a lot fewer things that are outputs and closing the loop. And Hapy's, I see Hapy very much as playing nice with all of these different output and input technologies. How do we take your sleep data

and not only tell you what's wrong, right? Like we could, there's a lot of interpretation of wearable data now, but there's not a lot of actionable output. Right. And when you say there's not a lot of actionable output, the wearable is saying, here's your sleep score, here's your recovery, here's your strain in the case of whoop and high wear whoop, or your heart rate variability was a little low tonight, your respiratory volume rate was a little bit low. So you can't take that data now

and create something in real time that would address that. Are you saying that HapB will eventually be able to take input data, highly individualized, right? Like from my whoop that says that, you know, I've been bad for X period of time, my heart rate variability is low, my respiratory rate is low. I'm I haven't been able to get into REM or deep sleep. And it could take that data and potentially redirect it and say, Okay, we're going to increase the amount of melatonin or change inine or possibly GHC. It's coming soon. Okay. And you said you have seven compounds now?

Yep. That it can effectively mimic and put you, for lack of better words, under the influence of that compound without that compound being in your body. And what are some of those? Sleep obviously. So on the sleep side, melatonin, anadenosine, CBDTHC, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, and theobromine, the caffeine analog that's in chocolate. Okay. So what's super exciting about that is that, you know, people, there's a process called tachyphylaxis in the human body, right? A desensitization response. It's like, you know, people, there's a process called tachyphylaxis in the human body,

right? A desensitization response. It's like, you know, you sit down next to a woman at, who's wearing amazing perfume, and 30 minutes later, you can't smell the perfume, right? I mean, that desensitization, that tachyphylaxis response has dulled your senses to picking up that, that scent any longer. It's not that she took the perfume off, it's that you don't smell it because you've desensitized. Is there a similar tachyphalactic effect where we would either build the tolerance

or build the dependency or some kind of desensitization? Yeah, just because of the way we think the product works, dependency or some kind of desensitization. Yeah, just because of the way we think the product works, we would expect there to be a little bit of desensitization over long-term use and time. Getting used to it kind of thing, okay? But no detriment. And as soon as you take it up, like this is the perfume you can take off.

Right, yeah, that you kind of can. So in your mind what are the great applications for this technology going forward? How are you guys gonna make your impact on the world? I think we're gonna continue to see it jumping through sleep on the consumer side. Oh, and my audience is like really, really interested now. What do you think they can improve sleep? Sleep is the one where it's easy for somebody to use the product for 30 days, line up your usage against your sleep latency score or your overall sleep score and prove to yourself

that it's working and it's working for me. Broadly speaking, we're also seeing a bunch of applications. Our content is loosely bucketed around sleep, mood, and performance. Sleep, mood, and performance. Yeah. So talk a little bit about what you're doing in each of those categories.

You have three essentially settings for sleep and these are three recordings of compounds that you're then going to play into the body, transmit into the body. And what specifically are those compounds? So in sleep it's melatonin and adenosine. Melatonin and adenosine, because there's a THC on there too,

and I think that's what they added to mine the other night, and that's what literally made me feel like I'm sinking down in the mattress. And I don't do any drugs, I don't touch weed and anything like that. It's not that I'm opposed to it or even CBDs. Some people swear by CBDs, you know, for sleep and for pain, but it was a noticeable difference and within just a few minutes of putting it on. And so now my

body feels that I'm under the influence of those compounds. When I wake up, I can just simply shut it off. Or you can set it so that it turns off while you're asleep. Oh, so it actually gets you into sleep and then it's... It's in the sleep and you can build out the content structure so that you have full control over when and where things are broadcast. Hi, guys, Gary here. I want to take a few minutes of your time to invite you to my ultimate human VIP community. This is a private community with front row seats

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since your body believes that you're under the influence of whatever compound, is there a chance that you build a tolerance to THC or to CBD or to the pain medication? I always wonder what about somebody that doesn't drink, like I don't drink any longer. You know, I drank not so long ago, but I've just cut it out of my life because the detriments to my physiology. So if I were to use that, I could experience the effects of alcohol and not have the downside and consequences.

And we have seen in the user base so far, right? Like people like me and my own personal example. Yeah. There's way too much coffee in the morning and the caffeine signal is not particularly notable to me because I have a higher caffeine tolerance than... We would expect and do continue to see personal tolerances and responses varying just like the source compounds would. Yeah, I mean, it seems to me too, the applications are so vast, especially for addiction, for

example. Most people are not smoking or vaping because they like smoking or vaping, it's because of the nicotine. And you could, although I'm down the road of all the positive health benefits on nicotine now, some of the nicotine is not even tobacco derived nicotine, but just talking about the compound nicotine. Have you looked at any implications for addictions like smoking? Yeah, we're starting to look into that area more where we've seen on the mood side has

actually been in veterans health. And we've done a bunch of work with a veterans reintegration group out of just up the street in Florida here on using HAPPY as a on-demand tool when folks who are struggling with reintegration coming back in can turn to a modality to turn on or off a sensation. Wow. And how's that going? What do they report when they're, you know, if you have someone that's addicted to a certain compound and, you know,

is getting that addressed, you know, you can actually introduce that compound without any of the negative side effects for them. Yeah, and provide for compounds, not in our library, an alternative for people to turn to when times are tough. We received an award for being the most effective tool for suicide prevention from this group that works with very at risk veterans. The gray team coming through on as just being integrated as part of their treatment plan

of folks who need a tool to turn to because they're not sleeping. And it wasn't that it was one specific piece for each person. It was individual. Their problems were coming from not being able to sleep or struggling with alcohol or other addictive problems and being a tool in the toolkit that you could turn to on demand and over a guided long period of time during reintegration. Yeah. Give them the power to really help those folks. So, where do you see this going in terms of performance?

You know, you were talking about the three big areas that you guys are trying to address. I mean, first of all, sleep, to me, is where we should all start, right? I believe that sleep is our human superpower if you're not sleeping You're not healing. You're not regenerating. You're not you know, your cells are not eliminating waste repairing detoxifying You know, we know that our our brains glymphatic system, which is like the lymph system in the brain is Active in waste elimination, you know at night So the only time the brain really detoxifies is during this deep sleep cycle.

And in the REM cycle, we're assembling our memories from the day with our subconscious and creating learned behaviors and learned memory. So, learn, learn memories. It seems to me like if you have Compounds that are available to enhance that they get all of the benefits of that deep sleep cycle without any of the deterrents Yeah, and I firmly believe sleep will will continue to be the starting point for most people What we're seeing

Uptake more on the performance side is actually coming in professional athletes. And what can you do for professional athletes? Yeah, and this is something I wouldn't have guessed at the start of the company coming in, but a lot of the professional athlete use of the product, whether it's NBA players, whether it's the product, whether it's NBA players, whether it's Premier League soccer teams, whether it's NHL teams, has been around pre-match warm-up and education. These guys that are either very nervous before games and need to relax, or folks who are too hyped up or are not hyped up enough and need a boost early on.

So on the sports performance side of kind of our professional athlete uptake, it's been around pregame management and then also sleep and travel on, you know, guys taking five flights a week to go play. Trust me, I know how that is. And like, wild sleep schedules in the professional sports worlds. So between that and then the third piece we'll see is like during film review.

Sit down, focus, put on nicotine, make it through 30 minutes of film study, make it through reading a playbook, make it through listening to the coaching report before moving on. So again, it's multifaceted. But do you do you envision a day maybe not in the not so distant future where even doctors offices, hospitals and care providers put this around somebody's neck and prescribe whatever medication is, and this app sort of runs on a timer.

And well, I guess it wouldn't do that, because I was thinking, you know, dosing your pain medication, or dosing your thyroid medication, or dosing any other medication for that matter, where you could, instead of having them ingest that compound, you just start transmitting that frequency. There's certainly a world there. We've done pilots in two places actually, a dentist office for folks who have significant

anxiety in the waiting room. And then also with this veterans group, folks that have so much physical pain, they can't come in to do a work-up session without getting that treated and addressed early on and being able to do CBD delivery for them before they start. The rest of their protocol has been the starting point of that in our journey. And to date, have you guys conducted any of your own independent research? Yeah, so on our side there's been kind of two pieces. One is core technology on the recordings of the drug, the advancement of the base research. And then the other side is the applied science of animal pain studies.

Animal. How would it mitigate pain other than if you had a pain medication, you would send that into the body and the body would respond as if it were under that influence. And in our case that compound is CBD, the CB2 receptor pathway that's mostly in your spinal column. And how hard is it to add, in order to add a new product or a new compound that it's mimicking, what's the process to do that? Because I that it's mimicking, what's the process to do that? Because I notice it's an app,

so I assume that you could update that app remotely, and as you guys come out with more technological innovations, this necklace goes from being asleep and slightly mentally alert and maybe a neurotropic into being all kinds of things. Yep, that's exactly right. Yeah, so there's the basically just go through the recording process, go through some animal validation work,

maybe some cellular validation work, and then bring it onto the platform. Yeah, I mean, again, the possibilities are just endless. So sleep is the primary focus. Where do your users go from there? What do you see after that, the possibilities are just endless. So sleep is the primary focus. Where do your users go from there? What do you see after that? The caffeine settings? Yeah, I think what predominantly what we see is people will start either with the sleep

pad for sleep only and then they'll realize that, oh, I can expand use with wearable during the day or we'll see people who come onto the neckband start using it for sleep and expand to be two product users. I mean, is there any detriment to using it over and over and over again? Like when you sat down, you were running the nicotine setting.

It was interfering with the mics, we turned it off, but you were running the nicotine setting and now you're running nothing, right? Yep. Do you already feel that nicotine has dropped in your? Yeah, I felt it right away. It was before we were even on camera, I think. Wow, that's just so wild.

Eventually the idea that you can integrate those into mattresses or any number of other products that become true biohacking modalities. You know, I'm always, I'm a huge fan of this term bio stacking, because to me what bio stacking means is you take, you know, multiple devices, biohacking devices, and you just try to do them instead of in sequence, but do them together. Like for example, I tell, I'm always preaching on social media about the

importance of breath work and sunlight and grounding, those three just simple things. But you could package all of that together at one time. Like for example, I will sit on the beach sometimes Let the sunlight hit hit my skin while while I'm grounded and I'll do rounds of breath work. So instead of having Three separate 20 minute segments. I have one 20 minute segment and we and we put it all together I kind of see the same thing happening here where somebody were wearing this device You know The physician could say, here's your prescription, it's loaded into your app,

and when you wake up in the morning, just let me know that you're awake and it will run your Synthroid, because that has to be done 30 minutes before meals and it has to be done completely by itself. Then your next medication's gonna start here here you know you're you're gonna run you know something for your blood pressure or So are you are you are you?

Saying that there's almost No field from any compound that you can't record and then translate that that's covalent Yeah, so and what we've seen from everything from like small molecules to like short interfering RNA to like big molecules still microscopic, right? But relatively large is right. These recordings are very unique compound by compound. So in theory, yeah, we should be able to do a whole bunch of this stuff. But I and is there there any bio individuality?

Like, you know, because if you and I both took the same number of milligrams strengths of melatonin and everybody listening to this podcast, there would be vastly different reactions to it. Some people would say, oh, my God, it felt like I got switched hit by a sledgehammer. Could even get out of bed the next day. I was so sluggish. And then other people would say, yeah, I didn't didn't feel it at all. Is there that bio individuality to the way the frequencies work? Absolutely there is. So you have to play with it a little bit.

We'll see customer onboarding. This is where people say I'm very sensitive to caffeine and people will turn it on and have an unpleasant experience. 15-ish, I forget the exact number, but a significant percent of people are are aversive to caffeine. Biologically aversive to caffeine. Yeah, they can't process it. Is's a is it the CYP? Forget the exact gene mutation You're not gonna get it from me. Yeah, there's there is a gene mutation that Breaks down caffeine either quickly or slowly

My wife was so happy because we actually had a genetic scientist over here months ago, and we did this big genetic test. And when he was going through the results, she was so she was like, if I can't have more than one cup of coffee a day, I am out. Because we were looking at caffeine metabolism. Luckily, she's a very fast metabolizer of it. So she can actually drink more coffee and have more later in the day. of it so she can actually drink more coffee and have more later in the day. And this report recommended that I only drink one because I'm a slow metabolizer of caffeine and I kind of find that on my own. I really don't need caffeine. I'm kind of quite a bit of energy most days but because of that

I've limited my cups of coffee to one. But in this case, I'm not metabolizing it, right? I'm under the influence of caffeine. And there will be similar biological profiling on receptor availability. Like we would expect there to still be personalized responses. So somebody could get this and, you know, their husband or their wife puts it on, is like out

like they got hit by a ton of bricks and then they have no effect so they have to sort of start playing with the compounds. Or reduce or something else. Yeah it's very much a personalized output. That is just so wild. I mean it really proves that these fields are exerting the effect that you're after. So I got to ask, where does this happy technology go from here? So you as a scientist, you've got to be, first of all, fascinated to see.

Because I'm sure in biomedical engineering, maybe there are times where you get to see a product have a mass market effect on humanity. But I mean, this has got to be pretty rewarding for you to see that you can have your laboratory science can have a real mass market effect on humanity. Yeah, I mean, I think at least we certainly like the reason for bringing it out into the consumer space as opposed to just keeping it medical only was very much like how quickly can we affect everybody's lives. This is this isn't something to be held back and and this engineer that developed it for the military I mean is this is the technology owned by the military? No, it's a just developed and and iterated from like, yeah, we're looking for submarines, you guys put all the people to sleep you want. We're not worried about. Yeah, fascinating. Well, I

definitely want to have you back on the podcast, because this whole innovation of wearables to me is this conversion that is happening right now between artificial intelligence, big data, and early detection. But in this case, if you were able to take massive amounts of data, presumably from wearables, and create an actionable response. I mean, that's, you know, so that as I'm going through the day, you know, my whoop is transmitting and it's telling me my strain and my, you know, all my biometrics are in there. And there are things that you could potentially do to follow the data in real time on someone's wearable and say, wow, they're not getting into REM sleep, let's secrete melatonin, let's secrete adenosine,

let's bring in some THC and actually in real time take that data and create such a personalized experience, but they're not under the influence of anything. I mean, and they don't have the detriments of those things. And if they wanted to remove, you know, essentially the influence that that field was having on them, they could do so. It's like if you take a Tylenol PM and you want to get out of bed two hours later, forget it.

If you like pop an ambientien and you're like, oh shoot, I got to go to the airport and pick up my, there's none of that going on, right? I mean, because you are now subject to whatever the half-life is of that compound and exerting its effect and you're just going to have to ride it out. I mean, if you had to eat Guinness, there's no way you're getting in the car in an hour.

You've got to, you know, you've got to wait for your blood alcohol to come down. But this would happen so much faster. Man, it's just super fascinating to me. So for my audience that doesn't know you and know about this technology, where do they find you? Where do they find out about this technology? Yeah, I think the easiest place to keep track of us is just our website, happy.com. And then H-A-P-B-E. Yeah, it's always a tough one to...

Yeah, happy.com. And you guys are talking about this is widely available for consumers now. So, somebody's struggling with sleep. What would you say the biggest implication is widely available for consumers now. Yep. So if somebody's struggling with sleep, what would you say the biggest implication is for this technology right now? If I'm a listener and I have this condition, this would be the most appropriate. Yeah, I think what we've really seen is if you're having trouble falling asleep in those first early stages, that's the most clear grab a sleep pad, flip it onto melatonin and adenosine and knock yourself out.

Like literally knock yourself out. Well we're gonna go into my my VIP room now because every every time I have a guest on I bring them into my VIPs room to allow them to ask questions directly. So if you're interested in becoming one of my ultimate human VIPs, go over to the ultimate human.com and just sign up to be one of my VIP members. You can have private podcasts with our guests. I also do live coaching group coaching sessions in there. I write all kinds of specific content for the VIPs. So go over to theultimatehuman.com and sign up to be one of my VIP members. But I end every podcast I wind down the same way by asking my guests the same question.

And there's no right or wrong answer to this question. And it is, what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human? For me, I think there are a couple pieces. One being having the ability to always be improving. Whether that's a small change or a big change. And the other is agency. Being able to do it in the way that you want to do it. And when you combine those two things, whether it's being better

to try and live healthy for longer, whether it's to try and be smarter or do better at work, like those two principles, I feel generally cover all aspects of life. That's awesome. You must be pretty fascinated with the journey that you're on. of life. That's awesome. We must be pretty fascinated with the journey that you're on. That was amazing. Dr. Moghan, thank you for coming on the Ultimate Human Podcast today. Let's go check out my VIPs. Well, thank you very much for having me. And as always guys, that's just science.