The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka - 173. Dr. Aseem Malhotra: What 1,000s Of Doctors Are Saying About The COVID Vaccine Safety Data

Starting point is 00:00:00 The COVID vaccine and the handling of it really, I think, has become the end result of decades of unchecked, visible, and power of big corporations. And that needs to be changed and overturned. In my opinion, that's why the vaccine gets away with having caused so many conditions, but is not being blamed for so many conditions. Fifty-seven percent of Americans felt that the excess deaths in the U.S. were linked to the COVID vaccine. And the main reason, in my view, is the handling the US were linked to the COVID vaccine. And the main reason in my view is the handling of the pandemic specifically with the COVID vaccine. If you were actually preserving so many lives, then a lot of these numbers wouldn't have

Starting point is 00:00:33 changed. We should utilize this as an opportunity to expose the whole system. And society that functions well throughout history is also to stop any single entity getting so much power that they can then be abused. Even for example, the COVID vaccine, I have many doctors that talk to me and say, I see my completely with you, thank you, they get emotional, but I'm afraid to speak out.

Starting point is 00:00:52 This is a symptom of a corporate tyranny. People say tax the rich. I don't think that sounds right. Let's tax the fraudsters, which happen to be some of the richest people in America. Everyone purports to want to protect and serve the least fortunate. And yet these are the ones that are continually preyed upon by a lot of these corrupt practices.

Starting point is 00:01:11 In fact, if you could rewrite something in the public health policy, where would you start? I think one of the challenges we still have, Gary, and we should just talk about it, is Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host Gary Brekka where we go down the road of everything anti-aging, longevity, biohacking and everything in between. This is a three time return guest now and one of my very close friends and a man I am so incredibly fond of. He's well spoken, he's well published, he's well revered.

Starting point is 00:01:52 The British Medical Journals and also here in the United States is a renowned cardiologist. And his refreshing view on everything ketogenic, low carb, LDL cholesterol, cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, is just so in line with the data, the big data, and so in line with my philosophy, I can't wait to chop it up with him again.

Starting point is 00:02:14 Welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for having me, Gary. Dr. Asim Alhoutra. So yeah, we've had a really kind of a fun journey, you and I, we've developed a friendship over the last year. It's been amazing getting to know you. Likewise, Kerry. And last time we chopped it up

Starting point is 00:02:30 about the whole narrative surrounding statins and cholesterol, but before we actually get into that today, in fact, right before this podcast, I mentioned you, because we were talking about cholesterol and cardiovascular disease on a previous podcast and I actually told them to go look up the podcast that I did with you, because you're so articulate

Starting point is 00:02:51 with the way that you explain things. But early this year, you actually called for and publicly demanded a moratorium on the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines. And I don't know if you began the petition or if you were just a part of the petition that was going around with that, a number of physicians had signed

Starting point is 00:03:14 and it was citing some of the newest clinical data on cardiac risks and even newest data on autoimmune disorders. And I wonder if you might just expand upon that. You know, what was the rationale, the impetus behind actually calling for a moratorium on these? Yeah, really good question, Gary.

Starting point is 00:03:34 So I think it's a combination of what's been happening over the last several years. I was a co-founder of the petition and the petition calling for this moratorium, you know, has got tens of thousands of signatures around the world from healthcare practitioners and specifically tens of thousands and specifically thousands of actual medical practicing doctors, right? Around the world. So that's a lot of doctors who are saying, agreeing with what we wrote and people look it up online. It's called the Hope Accord. So look to go to hopeacord.com

Starting point is 00:04:06 and you can have a read of it. But essentially one of the, for me, I always go back to square one, which is what did the original randomized control trial data tell us when it was independently verified and analyzed? And that analysis was done by one of the co-founders of the petition, a guy called Joseph Freeman, who is an ER doctor in Louisiana and a data scientist

Starting point is 00:04:30 and himself a number of very eminent doctors. They reanalyze Pfizer Moderna's original RCT. The one that the world was told was 95% effective. Yeah, 95% efficacy, I remember that. No side effects, et cetera, et cetera. So when they were able to reanalyze that data with new information that became available on the FDA's website and Health Canada's website,

Starting point is 00:04:53 what they found is that you were more likely to suffer serious harm from taking the vaccine that was described as a life-changing event, disability or hospitalization at a rate of one in 800, then you were to be hospitalized with COVID. In other words, wow, so the rate was less than one in 800 with COVID. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, in a relatively healthy population, but they looked at, you know, age groups, you know, from young to old, and there was over more than, I think, 40,000 participants in that trial, in those trials.

Starting point is 00:05:25 So what it suggests from the beginning, Gary, is that it was more harmful than beneficial. They were able to match the serious adverse event rates with a list that was put up by an organization called the Brighton Collaboration in the UK. And they already had a list that was endorsed by the World Health Organization. I mean, this is pretty shocking stuff because why was this not well publicized? The WHO, when the vaccine, even just before it was even being rolled out,

Starting point is 00:05:52 or when it was being rolled out, suggested these are the potential serious harms that could happen, right? From different bits of data that we put together, the platform that was being used, previous harms from other vaccines, animal studies, what severe COVID did itself. So they said these are the potential serious adverse effects that could happen. Anything and everything in every organ system is in that list of harm.

Starting point is 00:06:14 Especially the heart. Cardiac arrest, heart failure, myocarditis, pericarditis, heart attack, arrhythmias, it's all there, Gary. So imagine you start from that position, that place of, okay, at least 1 in 800 short term, there's just short term harm. In 1 in 800 in just an average population. So this is like a 24 year old healthy athlete, 44 year old soccer mom, and a 65 year old.

Starting point is 00:06:40 It was across the board. So we weren't able, they weren't able to find out was it more prevalent in any particular age board. So we weren't able, they weren't able to find out whether it was it more prevalent in any particular age group. So it was an average, but in a general healthy population in that too short term suggesting that's incredible with what we know about COVID and it will fit with the vaccine. What we've seen, if you've got comorbidities, if you're already metabolically unhealthy, those people were more likely to get serious adverse events from the vaccine as well, because

Starting point is 00:07:03 what it does is it accelerates underlying conditions already. So this one in a hundred figure is probably a gross underestimate. And then just to give a perspective in terms of what's happened historically with other vaccines that have been pulled again, not well publicized now, but you know, that that was available. People can look this up in 1976, the swine flu vaccine was pulled from the market. I think it was president Ford, was it? It was the, in 1976, he pulled it, right? He pulled it from the market because they found a signal that it was causing Gee and Barry syndrome. Yeah. Right. Yeah. A neurological condition that's very disabling, right? Strange one. Yeah. At a rate of one in a hundred thousand, that was enough to pull it. Wow.

Starting point is 00:07:45 Right? And then you've got the rotavirus vaccine, which was found in 1999, that was suspended, because it was found to cause a form of bowel obstruction in kids, at a rate of one in ten thousand. We're saying one in a hundred, and this is not some kind of... One in eight hundred? It's not a blog.

Starting point is 00:08:01 This is, you know where they publish this? They published it in the highest impact journal for vaccines. It's called Vaccine. Wow. And I'll tell you what. It's called a blog. This is, you know where they publish this? They published it in the highest impact journal for vaccines. It's called Vaccine. Wow. And I'll tell you what. It's called Vaccine. You know, and that was in the summer of 22. And I met Richard Horton, who I know personally,

Starting point is 00:08:15 the editor-in-chief of The Lancet in the street, just before I gave a talk in London, after I published a paper summarizing my findings, including this paper, at the end of 2022. And I met him in the street where we live in this village called Hampstead and had, he's very pleasant, you know, had a conversation with him and I said, you know, I'm giving this talk and he didn't know about this publication in vaccine and he, his eyebrows raised when I told him, I said, he said, oh, he goes, that's a, that's a pretty credible journal.

Starting point is 00:08:41 He didn't say anything else after that. So yeah, and this should have been world news. It should have been the biggest story of the decade. It should have, yeah. There was no publicity in any mainstream press. Wow. All of the publicity came from me, ultimately, when I published my paper several months later, basically,

Starting point is 00:08:57 and then kept highlighting this in all the news I was in the conversation I was having with Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson or Megyn Kelly, or, you know, even hijacking the BBC. People that would listen. Yeah. You know, which I did in the beginning of 2023. And that on X got 25 million views because people were so interested in that story. It was a bit of talking about statins.

Starting point is 00:09:16 But I said, well, the reason we're talking about statins is because we've got this excess death rate going on in the UK that people are trying to understand. And almost certainly the COVID vaccine is playing a role. How big a role we don't know. I think probably the biggest role. And then, you know, all hell broke loose. Yeah. For you. Well, yeah. Yeah. Because you said the excess deaths could be related to the vaccine. So you called for this moratorium and you said almost 10,000 physicians have signed the. At least 2,000 physicians, but thousands more healthcare practices, which include nurses and other health, you know, healthcare workers. And now what's the status of that? They collect all these signatures. I don't even know what

Starting point is 00:09:55 the procedure is. You turn it into who? Health and Human Services? I mean... Well, we publicized it, number one, certainly through social media. Interestingly, Gary, I also have been involved with the back... Lots of different backlash goes on when you speak truth to power and you get stuff out there, right? And I've been involved in this for many, many years in different ways, especially on Stats, which will come on to later. But one of the things that was interesting when this Hope Accord was signed, I, in fact, it was when I was in the States last time, when I was here, I think it was after we met. I was in a situation where the general medical council,

Starting point is 00:10:31 which are the body that control your license to practice in the UK, they had been put under pressure to investigate my license to practice. And they'd been holding on to making a decision whether or not to do this for since the beginning of last year. Okay.

Starting point is 00:10:48 So it's quite a while at the end of the year, last year, even though the evidence that I put forward was in my case was, I think overwhelming that the, the, the advocacy I've done has been evidence-based. I've not said anything that is, you know, um, so far fetched that it's going to cause patient harm or whatever else. In fact, the opposite. They asked me to respond to further allegations that I was spreading misinformation, that I was abusing my position. And I looked at some of these allegations from anonymous doctors and they were absolutely

Starting point is 00:11:17 just crazy, including the saying that a simulhotra is spreading misinformation on the COVID vaccine and exploiting vulnerable communities in India and South Africa. Oh my God! Right? Because I'd been... So, get this story, right? So, when I came out to being about the vaccine, I got one of the most sort of, I don't know, two big moments for me on a personal level, really made me, you know, gave me strength and hope that what I was doing was right.

Starting point is 00:11:45 The first one, just after I published my paper at the end of 2022, I went on GB News in the UK, and to say that we should suspend the vaccine. This was September 2022. And as I come out of the studio, I get a missed call from a US number, right? I was like, oh, that's interesting. Who's that? So I called it back. It was Robert Kennedy Jr. First conversation I'd had with him. So he had seen your...

Starting point is 00:12:11 He was aware of it and he'd got my number from Robert Malone. And he basically said to me, Dr. Malhotra, it's Robert Kennedy Jr. here. I want to thank you for your courage. And I was like, wow, you know, I said, it's an honor to speak to you. And then we, and that's how we initially connected. So there was that, obviously another

Starting point is 00:12:26 story ongoing with Bobby after that. And then what happened was, um, again, around the same time I got a DM on X it was then Twitter from the man is called Jane Naidu. He's one of those powerful voices in Africa. He is credited as being the person that almost single-handedly organized the release of Nelson Mandela from prison. By organizing this, he was a trade union leader. He organized a strike of a million workers in South Africa. And it pushed essentially the South African government

Starting point is 00:13:00 to release Nelson Mandela from prison. He was Nelson Mandela's best friend. He was in his first cabinet. And he was writing to me saying, Asim, what you're doing is so wonderful and amazing. Mandela would say this. And I was like, what, is this for real? That's super cool.

Starting point is 00:13:12 So that was kind of like, you know, for me, that was, these are sort of moments that made me kind of, gave me strength to carry on in this battle. And so anyway, all of this was put forward to the general medical council. They then asked me, you know, sorry. So Jay Naidu asked me to come speak in South Africa. I went to South Africa, spoke in one of their parliaments,

Starting point is 00:13:31 got stuff in the mainstream news, which no one had been able to do, of course with backlash. And I went to India when one of the most powerful families in India and one of the richest families in the world called the Ambani's, okay. in India and one of the richest families in the world, called the Ambani's, okay? One of the brothers, his name Anil Ambani, he owns, you know, they basically run the film industry of Bollywood, right?

Starting point is 00:13:56 Their son and daughter-in-law contacted me as well and asked me to come and speak in India because we've got problems with the COVID vaccine. So I went to speak, you know, in very credible places, including one of India's most prestigious hospitals. In my talk, Gary, because I believe in the evidence speaks for itself, if people will listen, doctors who were there were gobsmacked and were turned in one hour.

Starting point is 00:14:15 Doctors who would have been responsible for rolling out the vaccine in India, by the end of my talk, basically thought, you know, metaphorically, holy shit. Wow. What have we done? Like it was, metaphorically, holy shit. Wow. What have we done? Like it was that kind of response. Okay. Wow. I then spoke in another Institute in India, one of the most prestigious Institute in India called Ames. It's a number one medical institution of the whole of India and even Asia probably. Wow. But so, and I had feedback, right? I had feedback from these places, from these doctors saying, same came

Starting point is 00:14:43 to speak here. He was very evidence-based, very eloquent, you know, etc. So imagine, I'm not having to respond to the General Medical Council from these anonymous complaints of complete bullshit, basically, saying I'm exploiting vulnerable communities, right? This kind of stuff. So in that, I wrote, I added in, of course, the Hope Accord situation, interestingly, also wrote in my letter to the General Medical Council, which people can read, it's open access on my website. And I mentioned that Jay Bhattacharya

Starting point is 00:15:10 at that stage wasn't the director of NIH, it was before his director of NIH had also signed it. Right. Okay. So he was also part of this. For me, one of the lessons in public health advocacy, Gary, is if you get an issue media attention, you're more likely to influence policy than just private advocacy, essentially. Sunlight is a very potent disinfectant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So with all of this going on in the last few months, what suddenly happened is very interesting is the Daily Mail USA and their science editor, who used to work in the UK and have done stories

Starting point is 00:15:40 with before, suddenly become very interested and we've had conversations and convinced him at least that there's a case to be made here that this needs more attention. So that's why we've been getting, if you've seen, and the HOPA court has been mentioned, they may say, and members of, you know, linked to the administration from J. Bhattacharya to Bobby Kennedy, even Kash Patel, I didn't know, but actually called, you know, he basically has skepticism about COVID vaccine as well. All of these players were then mentioned, that saying that,

Starting point is 00:16:05 the potential U-turn by Trump team on COVID vaccine. Because I think one of the challenges we still have, Garren, we should just talk about it, is I think President Trump, I think he was misled. Yeah. And I think he's, there is this narrative that's out there, which suggests, I'm not saying from him,

Starting point is 00:16:25 he may have mentioned it, but it didn't come from him, saying that millions of lives or maybe tens of millions of lives have been saved from the COVID vaccine. And the data on which they're making that assumption is from a modeling study. It's not even in the hierarchy of evidence-based medicine. Carl Hennigan, who is the director

Starting point is 00:16:41 of the Center of Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University, he's one of the most eminent evidence-based medicine doctors in the world. And I've had close conversations with Carl, right? He supported my paper when I called for a suspension, you know, behind the scenes. He wrote in an article saying this suggestion

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Starting point is 00:18:01 So let's help it do what it was designed to do. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. Because the rate of death or the excess deaths doesn't support that. Well, all of that, but also the data they're using to make that assumption is very poor quality. It's not even considered in the hierarchy of evidence-based medicine.

Starting point is 00:18:18 We've got the RCT from reanalysis, right, at the top. We've got all the observational data. We've got observation. You got observational data. You've got excess deaths and you say, well, if you were actually preserving so many lives, not even extended, just preserving so many lives, then a lot of these numbers wouldn't have changed.

Starting point is 00:18:37 But once you start removing people from the pool, ostensibly because of death, everything changes. So, yeah, I mean, I was in probability and statistics and I know that you can take two completely identical sets of data and have them say completely different things depending on what you're after. I mean, an improvement of one in 100,000 is a 100% improvement over one.

Starting point is 00:19:06 You know, so, and a lot of people don't understand efficacy, you know, effective, you know, these minimum effective doses, how effective a compound or a vaccine or a drug is. And when you start peeling back the layers of the onion and you say, well, you know, there were 10,000 people in this study. One person had positive outcome

Starting point is 00:19:33 and in the placebo group, two people had a positive outcome in the non placebo group. So that's a hundred percent more effective. And then all the consumer hears is, it's a hundred percent effective. I still remember the consumer hears is, it's 100% effective. I still remember turning on the TV and everything else during COVID, I would almost sit and guess myself

Starting point is 00:19:50 because it would be like, it's 97.6% effective. It's 99.2% effective, which makes you think that you have a 0.4 or 0.6% chance of catching the virus and having any kind of severe complication. In fact, I think it does more harm because you give people false sense that they're protected. Completely, right?

Starting point is 00:20:11 Completely. The evidence is overwhelming now, right? So, you know, there needs to be moratorium. There needs to be an apology from the medical establishment. Yeah. For sure. From people like Fauci or from... Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:20:27 From Fauci, from the medical bodies that pushed it, that supported mandates, for example. They need to apologize. They need to... Well, you know, when you make an error in medicine, you're taught that, first of all, you acknowledge as a problem, right? Acknowledge as a problem, then you apologize, then you say, this is what we're going to do to make it better,

Starting point is 00:20:44 to make sure it doesn't happen again. That's what needs to happen. Until it happens. You know, the trust in, there was a paper published last year in the US that showed that trust in doctors had gone from an all-time high, about 74% in April 2020, right? The height of the pandemic to now less than 40 or about 40%. C. That's like where Washington politicians are. Exactly. And the main reason in my view, one of the main reasons, not the main reason, is the handling of the whole, the pandemic specifically with the COVID vaccine.

Starting point is 00:21:13 I agree. A separate study showed 57% of Americans felt that the excess deaths in the US were linked to the COVID vaccine. There's such a disconnect there, right? And you look at, of course, we're really happy that we've got the likes of, you know, Bobby Kennedy Jr. and Tulsi Garbar and Jay now and Marni Bakari and really prominent positions to influence policy and health. But I can assure you, Gary, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think anybody on this, on this particular, during this election, voted for Donald Trump because of operation warp speed. No, nobody voted for him because of operation warp speed. And he needs to know that. He doesn't need to hold on to it. Like he was misled.

Starting point is 00:21:53 I agree that there may have been a slightly greater benefit than harm, potentially for very high risk people at earlier stages. But as we've said already, if everybody knew at the beginning, the rate of serious harm was going gonna be at least 1,800, it would never have been approved. It would have passed authorization, right? Right. You know, I was actually down the rabbit hole really looking at some of the papers

Starting point is 00:22:14 on gain of function research and some of the papers on the COVID vaccine. I don't know if you subscribed to the fact that it was a lab leak theory. Oh, completely. Yeah, I do. Seems most likely. I do too. And you subscribed to the fact that it was a lab leak theory. Oh, completely. Yeah, I do. Seems most likely. I do too.

Starting point is 00:22:27 And I think most people do by now. What was really interesting is when you look at gain of function, how you take the most viral or virile outcome or impact of one virus and you stitch it together with a different virus. So let's say you have a respiratory virus and a virus that causes neural inflammation.

Starting point is 00:22:50 And now you have a neuroinflammatory respiratory virus because you somehow stitch these viruses together. This paper went on to say how in the human body, there's no mechanism for two independent viruses. Like say you have Epstein-Barr and you have Chicken Box. There's no way for these two viruses to get together and form their own super virus, right? They don't lock arms and form their own virus.

Starting point is 00:23:16 It's possible to have different viral attacks in the same body. You could theoretically have influenza, the common cold, and the next day get COVID and have both of them. Or you could have an Epstein-Barr virus and also have shingles, right? I mean, it's possible that you could have

Starting point is 00:23:35 these multiple viruses. But one of the interesting things that it went into, and I don't know if this is, I love your opinion on it, was that the nucleocapsid protein on this virus was stitched together with something called a CGG sequence, cytosine glycine glycine sequence, which they said does not occur

Starting point is 00:23:53 anywhere naturally in nature. So the best way I could describe it is that you had an influenza virus, you had a SARS-CoV-2 virus, you had a Middle Eastern respiratory virus, and basically, because these things can't spontaneously combine, they were synthetically stitched together

Starting point is 00:24:10 to form this, let's call it a super virus, SARS-CoV-2, what we call SARS-19, and that that's what leaked, and when that leaked, we didn't have the antidote to slow it down. And it's a really, really interesting paper. I'm gonna link it in the notes below. But it does make sense.

Starting point is 00:24:30 And this cytosine glycine glycine, the CGG sequence of actually causing these independent viruses to connect and sort of become one, did not exist anywhere else naturally in nature or anywhere else in the world. And they found it highly focused in that, you know, in that one lab.

Starting point is 00:24:52 You know, some of the things that you've claimed is that the pharma companies manipulated the data and that politicians were actually misled. I think very often we think that our politicians are just on board with the whole game, right? And maybe they're getting paid or they're part of the problem or eventually they're gonna get paid

Starting point is 00:25:13 when they go to work for big pharma or big food. But in this, you didn't really say that. You said that the pharma companies manipulated the data and the politicians were misled. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's also my experience speaking to politicians. I have, I know many politicians, very senior members across all parties in the UK.

Starting point is 00:25:34 And some of them even come to me for medical advice. Some of them are my patients, right? So I have honest conversation with them and they, a lot of them were very shocked. Even recently, I was returning from Washington DC, having been invited for the inauguration and from the Mahabal where we last met. And I was on the plane and I met the former attorney general. Um, and she was the home secretary at one stage, and it's well, the Braverman on the

Starting point is 00:26:00 plane with her husband. I was introduced to her by a common friend and she seemed very pleasant. And you know, I spent about half an hour speaking to both her and her husband, right? About what happened with the whole COVID vaccine. They had no idea. And they literally had jaw dropped. I mean, she didn't know what to say. She was, she had no clue.

Starting point is 00:26:20 No clue. These are people in the heart of government. Wow. In the UK or here? This is in the UK of government. Wow. Right. So what? In the UK or here? This is in the UK. Yeah. Yeah. In the UK. Yeah. You know, what's fascinating in all of this is a lot of members of the public and even

Starting point is 00:26:33 doctors get their information from mainstream media. I gave a talk in the British Medical Association during the annual conference in the summer of 2022 before I published my paper. And it was all the, it was on the corruption of big, it was like, you know, essentially, you know, I think my talk title was something, the corporate capture of medicine, public health. And in that, by this stage, Joseph Freeman's paper,

Starting point is 00:26:55 the vaccine paper was in a preprint stage. It hadn't been finally published in vaccine, but it was in a preprint. And I just brought that in the middle of the paper. And then, you know, at the end of the talk, there was a lot of interest in what I'd said, but a lot of shock. And, you know, the chairman of the British Medical Association were there. And one of the things that I mentioned to him is that, you know, 86% of the funding

Starting point is 00:27:15 of our regulator in the UK, MHRA, like the FDA, comes from Big Pharma. 86%? Yeah, 65% of the FDA's funding comes from Big Pharma, right? So you think about it, and he didn't even know, he was shocked by that. But I go back to several months earlier, I was involved in a campaign to help overturn vaccine mandates for healthcare workers in the UK. And the chair of the BMA at the time, Chand Nagpal, his name is, we've known each other for a long time, he was very close to my father, my late father.

Starting point is 00:27:41 And I wanted to get access to the secretary for health at the time, his name is Sajidavid. He'd come out calling for mandates, which was all very weird, by the way, Gary, because that happened sort of October, November, 2021. The mandates were being pushed after real world data was showing serious harms, after we knew it was stopping transmission. So for me at the time, I realized my intuition, my intuitive intelligence said this is coming from Pfizer, this is coming from the drug companies for sure. And then it was later proved that Pfizer, I think Lee Fang is the name of the journalist. He found that Pfizer in the summer of 2021

Starting point is 00:28:13 had lobbied respected grassroots organizations in the US by giving tens of thousands of dollars to push the vaccine mandate narrative. Wow. So they did that because they wanted to distract. Ultimately, was that coming from like Soros or was it coming from who? Well it was coming from the company. I don't know from Pfizer that we're saying that the company itself was paying money to

Starting point is 00:28:32 these organizations because that's what they do deliberately to detract from the harms to make you think if it's being mandated, it's got to be safe and effective. But anyway, during my conversation with Charles Nagpalul about the mandates, he said to me, and I spoke about two hours on the phone with him going through all the information I knew, he said, Asim, most of my colleagues in medicine, senior national health service doctors, right, policymakers are getting their,

Starting point is 00:28:56 have not critically praised the evidence as well as you have. They're getting their information on the safety and benefits of the vaccine from the BBC. Wow. Right? Rochelle Walensky said the same thing, that her optimism from the vaccine came from a CNN news report. So I'm saying that because if that's senior doctors who are being indoctrinated and taken

Starting point is 00:29:16 in by a mainstream media narrative, all the politicians, same thing. So that's why part of an important key way to overturn all of this thinking and expose the truth is use of alt media and mainstream media. Wow. And how do you think that we do that? What evidence do we need to be putting out there in the media platforms like myself to say,

Starting point is 00:29:38 objectively, not subjectively, and certainly not in a way to take a political stance, but just objectively to say here are the facts and here is the solution and why I think the solution is so much more superior to how. I think we have to do something first before that, Gary, right? I've realized barriers to the truth are often not intellectual, they are psychological. A lot of people don't want to hear it at all. They will ignore it, right?

Starting point is 00:30:08 So we have to have a difficult conversation first with humility to say, this is what happened during the pandemic. What happens to the human mind when you're in state of fear? You're less likely to engage in critical thinking. You're more likely to be compliant. Then you've got people that have taken it. You've got this concept of what we call willful blindness,

Starting point is 00:30:25 which is when human beings... Almost on purpose. Completely. We turn... We're all vulnerable to it, right? We turn a blind eye to the truth, and this can happen at an individual level, even in a simple sort of a scenario of like a spouse turning a blind eye to the affair of their partner, right?

Starting point is 00:30:40 Right. Okay. You turn a blind eye to the truth in order to feel safe, avoid conflict, reduce anxiety and to protect prestige and fragile egos. So let's start there. And also, you know, it's very interesting. Most people we've evolved to use our intelligence not to look for objective truth, but actually to conform, to enhance our personal wellbeing, our status. So I think starting from understanding like the human state,

Starting point is 00:31:07 first and foremost with humility, I think it gets people to, because the way I've been able to help change the narrative when I've been speaking to doctors who are completely don't know what's coming. Like for example, in India, is I start from the beginning with this conversation saying that the greatest enemy of knowledge,

Starting point is 00:31:28 conversation saying that the greatest enemy of knowledge, you know, is, so the greatest enemy of truth is the illusion of knowledge. The greatest enemy of truth is the illusion of knowledge. Right. So, so that, so that gets people a little bit more open, like, okay. Right. And then you talk about the fear and wolf or blindness stuff. And then people are suddenly a bit more open, like, okay, okay. That we're all in the same boat here.

Starting point is 00:31:46 Yeah. Right. That's how I can actually control them. And then you then you walk them through to the situation of the COVID vaccine. But on this issue of the COVID vaccine, Garry, you've got to then unpick some of the problems in modern medicine, even before the pandemic, which most people weren't aware of. Like, for example, look at operation warp speed. Now it sounds great. We have safety trials too, right?

Starting point is 00:32:06 Well, no, exactly. It makes people think we've got this amazing technology. We're going to fast track blah, blah, blah. But hold on a minute. If you look, for example, the history of fast track approved drugs, approved by the FDA and other regulators around the world, the quicker you approve it,

Starting point is 00:32:21 the more likely it's going to be withdrawn because it's more likely to bypass safety standards. So actually by definition, Operation Warp Speed was already saying, we're doing more operational speed, but by the way, this means we're more likely to miss serious harms. Yes.

Starting point is 00:32:36 That was missing from the conversation. In some cases, the longer safety trials were even waived, because you just don't simply have time to do a five year perspective. But if that's the case, the conversation should be very open, say, guys, this is a bit of an experiment. Where was that conversation made?

Starting point is 00:32:50 By the way, American public, we are in this pandemic, but let's be a bit more honest here. It's really just affecting the elderly. And there are other things that we're not discussing around high dose vitamin C and supplements and improving your diet. Vibromectin, hydroxychloroquine.

Starting point is 00:33:05 All of that was missed because people say, well, people have this conversation with me, they have friends of family, friends and doctors and said, well, I see him. Okay, I get it. You're probably right. But what else could we have done? What was the other solution? I said there were lots of other solutions, you know, we could have focused protection on the elderly. We exaggerated the risk in younger people.

Starting point is 00:33:21 Under 70, Gary, we know now it was probably no worse than the flu, right? Even from the beginning. In children, it was less lethal than the flu. Like near zero. I read something about five-year-old and under-children that it was either at or absolutely near zero. And it looked at some of the other risk factors like chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident

Starting point is 00:33:47 on your way to school. And comparing the relative risk of the two and saying, okay, well, according to the rationale to support vaccinating children at this age, we should definitely not put them in the car to go to school because the chances are exponentially greater. And they'll, they'll pass in a motor vehicle accident on the way to school, which we all know is extraordinarily rare.

Starting point is 00:34:15 But I mean, that just shows you how extraordinarily rare, um, you know, the, the complications were in, in, in the vaccine. You know, I was having this discussion before you came on today and a lady was saying, I don't understand how, you know, spike protein in one person's blood versus somebody else's blood could be symptomatic or not symptomatic or could cause a myriad of different symptoms versus a specific symptom. And I said, you know, you're just kind of overthinking it. If you think about how the body methylates

Starting point is 00:34:43 and just eliminates waste, and people are good methylators or poor methylators of all kinds of things. So if we took the listeners that were listening to this podcast right now and divided them into three groups and said, okay, we're going to take these three groups and we're going to feed you all the same amount of mercury laden tuna fish. And you're going to eat this every day for 90 days. At the end of 90 days, a small portion of that group

Starting point is 00:35:10 would have deadly mercury poisoning. The next portion might have some complications related to mercury, like brain fog, or water retention, or poor focus and concentration, what have you. But then maybe a third of that group is gonna have no symptoms at all. So they took in the same amount of poison over the same period of time.

Starting point is 00:35:31 One group's deathly ill, one group's kind of marginally okay, and the other group's totally fine. That has to do with how they're methylated and how they're clearing this spike protein, which is why you see this whole myriad of symptoms in the people that we purport to protect. And so we we never we never really address that. And in my opinion, that's why the vaccine gets away with having caused so many conditions, but is not being blamed for so many conditions.

Starting point is 00:36:06 If that makes sense to you too. Yeah. But in terms of coming back to what you said earlier, Gary, about how we, this conversation, I think we also had to realize that it was such an intense propaganda campaign behind the whole vaccine stuff. You know, there was a paper published that revealed that on a psychological basis, just to understand the barriers to getting through to the people we need to get through it, it can be done, but it needs to be done in a certain way and it will take

Starting point is 00:36:31 time. And not everybody comes on board. A different person will take a different amount of time to actually come full circle and say, okay, you know, I got this wrong. I was misled, right? For whatever reason, not human, human basic personality traits, you know. And the indoctrination was so deep and so strong that one paper that was published revealed that the way that vaccinated people looked at unvaccinated people, okay? In terms of the way they looked at them, perceived them and thought about them, was similar to how a neo-Nazi would think and look at an immigrant. Lyle No. C.S. Yeah. Yeah. There was so badly persecuted and treated so badly.

Starting point is 00:37:15 Lyle Wow. C.S. This was the indoctrination campaign that happened, you know, and Eva Sherar, I don't know if you know her, but she was a Holocaust survivor. I think she's 90 plus. I met her a couple of years ago and she's a very outspoken, eloquent lady. And she said, this is before all of this stuff came out, the way that the pandemic was handled, it reminded her of actually Nazi Germany.

Starting point is 00:37:38 Yeah. Right? And this is the way that unvaccinated were labeled. She was saying this was akin to how the Jews were labeled. Wow. Nazi Germany. They're looking at the unvaccinated were labeled. She was saying this was akin to how the Jews were labeled. Wow. Not the Germans. They're looking at the unvaccinated. Because I remember, I mean, even here,

Starting point is 00:37:50 you know, the certain administrations were talking about the pandemic of the unvaccinated. This isn't a pandemic anymore. It's a pandemic of unvaccinated. They actually had shame signs. They would pull kids out of school, not allow them to return to school or to the playground. It was astounding to me how quickly society actually collapsed under that.

Starting point is 00:38:15 So what do we do now? Where does this stand? I think, Gary, we've moved on a lot. You will see very few people now, if you notice on social media talking about the benefits of the COVID vaccine, people have gone silent. Right, right. Right. Before they talk about the benefits, they'll just chill out. Completely.

Starting point is 00:38:34 And then you get, and what's worrying is we're seeing more and more of these conditions, autoimmune conditions, more prevalence of certain, you know, there was a paper from Yale recently that showed that 700 days after people who had seemed to have, I think it was even asymptomatic people, but actually certainly people that were vaccine injured included asymptomatic people. They still had circulating levels of spike protein like 700 days after having the COVID vaccine. These are the people, this is what I mean. Like there are some people that can clear the spike protein very well. There's some people that can't like it just like back to

Starting point is 00:39:03 our mercury-related tuna fish example, if we ate it all the same for 60 days and then we started the experiment and we said, go, some of us would have deadly heavy metal toxicity and other ones wouldn't. And it doesn't mean that we got different dosages, it means that the body acted differently to each of those dosages.

Starting point is 00:39:23 Some can clear very fast and some clear very slowly. Right. And so you get a much more severe symptomology in somebody that that clear slowly. And I think that very often we're not linking this as the hub of the wheel that links to all of these different spokes. You don't just have to have myocarditis. You can have trigeminal neuralges and neuralgios, transverse myelitis, the thrombolytic thrombocytopenia, the abnormal platelet clotting, which unfortunately took the life of a very good friend of mine.

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Starting point is 00:41:07 No, I think we've got more than enough information, Gary, first and foremost, to call for a pause. The harm rate is extremely high. And, but as you said, you know, we should utilize this as an opportunity to expose the whole system. Because, you know, how did we get this wrong? Why did we get this wrong?

Starting point is 00:41:24 And what are the solutions? And it all comes back to the fact that big pharma have got too much power, the lack of transparency with their data. And this should be utilized in that way, Gary. We can build from this, but it needs leadership. It needs strong leadership. I know Bobby Kennedy is very strong on this.

Starting point is 00:41:38 I hope, and I think that will happen with time and hopefully sooner rather than later, especially because of people around him. And I know this personally, because I know these people are fully on board with this is a president. Trump needs to come out and say, listen, I was misled. Um, we need to stop here. We need to, you know, call a moratorium. We need to now put the best scientific minds to understanding who's at risk, what are the longterm potential risks and find

Starting point is 00:42:01 potential cures. That's what we need to do. Cause this problem isn't going away. And the other issue is the trust has gone, right? All the other vaccine uptakes are down. People aren't trusting the medical profession. As you know, it's probably the lowest trust ever. This is not good. All of us not, if you can't trust your doctor, Gary, who can you trust?

Starting point is 00:42:18 Yeah, so true. We were like the last line of a profession that behaved ethically that you could trust, that use the best of medical science to make decisions for you. It's all gone. So we have to rebuild, but that only happens with an acknowledgement of this COVID vaccine horror.

Starting point is 00:42:36 What do we do for the people that have it now that are really, really worried? Do you recommend something like a Peta Mercola spike protein detox or? Listen, it's great that there are people out there that are offering solutions because I think people want them. I think there is still limited evidence about how useful these things are. And certainly I've looked at Peter McCullough's protocol and you know, my approach is always first do no harm.

Starting point is 00:42:56 So if it's going to potentially do you some good and no harm, why not? I think that there are tests around the world that are being, that are there that people can look to see whether they've got active spike protein, the spike protein. There are some small bits of data, albeit sponsored by those companies. So look at Pinch of Sol, augmented NAC, for example, as the NSA, those companies claim that they can denature the spike protein in your body. But irrespective, something you and I very much align on is, you know, we've got this massive issue anyway of poor metabolic health in the United States. So if people optimize their metabolic health, you know, their lifestyle,

Starting point is 00:43:38 they're much less likely to suffer the complications of the COVID vaccine and potentially even improve their situation of long COVID or whatever else. So I think that has to be at the base of the COVID vaccine and potentially even improve the situation of long COVID or whatever else. So I think that has to be at the base of the solution. Right, yeah. I mean, there's no such thing really as long COVID. It's not a prolonged COVID infection. It's the leftover, the byproduct of having been infected. But I know that it makes a lot of people,

Starting point is 00:43:58 it just leaves them depleted with brain fog, with poor focus and concentration, with this water retention, with this terrible response to exercise, and there's no zeal for life. Yeah, absolutely. And the huge psychological component too, right? The trauma of also what we went through, the pandemic. Well, a lot of it was isolation.

Starting point is 00:44:17 Yeah, absolutely. Being vaccine injured and then the anxiety related to that. So we need psychological support too. So it's a healing of society that really is what's required and the COVID vaccine and the handling of it really, I think, has become the end result of decades of unchecked, visible and invisible power of big corporations. And that needs to be changed and overturned. Yeah. You know, I know that you're a big advocate talking about, you know, statin prescriptions

Starting point is 00:44:49 and how these are over prescribed as well. You and I have actually done a whole podcast on it, but I'd be remiss if I didn't just touch on it because it's one of my favorite topics to talk about because, you know, I'm not licensed to practice medicine. So, but we've had thousands and thousands of clients come through our clinic system. And I also had access to big data

Starting point is 00:45:12 in the life insurance industry, 361 or 381 million lives. And we weren't seeing centenarians, people that were living beyond age 100, dying with normal pathic levels of cholesterol, what we would call normal, 99 or less, right? They would die with 106, 130, 170 LDL cholesterol. So I wonder if you might just touch on that,

Starting point is 00:45:39 because there's a lot of interest in LDL cholesterol as a standalone risk marker. Yeah, so if you start from the basics, cholesterol is a very vital, vital molecule in the body. It has so many roles to play, something that's been ignored for years because we've been conditioned to fear it, um, involved in production of, of sex hormones, maintaining the structure of cell membranes and having a role in the immune system. And so we start from there, and then we go back to understanding why did cholesterol become so feared. And, you know, from 1920 up until sort of 1950, 1960, there was a trend in increasing heart disease and heart attacks

Starting point is 00:46:16 and cardiovascular deaths in the United States in the Western European countries. And scientists trying to figure out what was causing it. And some scientists came in and thought, okay, this is saturated fat in the diet and linked to high cholesterol. And the Framingham study, which was carried out and started in 1948 in Framingham, Massachusetts and went over several decades to try and look for

Starting point is 00:46:35 risk factors for heart disease, find associations with, you know, and they determined that smoking was, for example, a risk factor type two diabetes and high cholesterol. But if you look at the Framingham data and it was then, you know, reanalyzed again by one of its co-directors, William Castelli, published in the journal, atherosclerosis in 1996, he said, unless you're LDL looking at Framingham, which is where all of the cholesterol, you know, most of the data or the guidelines

Starting point is 00:47:07 or the thinking on fear and cholesterol came from, he said, unless your LDL is greater than 300 milligrams per deciliter, it is no value in isolation and predicting heart disease. In no value in isolation. So let's start from there, okay? And then let's just build on that. So if we start from that point and it's true that-

Starting point is 00:47:26 Now we don't like to see it above 99 on the- Well, no, exactly, right? It's crazy. So that suggests, and so the people who had LDLs above 300, Gary, were essentially people with familial hyperlipidemia. Hyperlipidemia, genetic condition affects one in 250 people where they're born with genetically high LDL, which is at least above 190. Okay. Right. And often can be as high as 300. Now those people did develop heart disease prematurely for sure. But even within that subgroup, 70% of women

Starting point is 00:47:58 with FH and 50% of men would not develop premature heart disease. So the question is, of men would not develop premature heart disease. So the question is, can we figure out, is there anything in these people's makeup or any sort of blood markers that could predict whether or not they get heart disease or not? Well, the first thing and the research I did published in BMJ evidence-based medicine with a number of co-authors, we found, first of all, LDL was not a predictor in people with FH. Their LDL levels were the same. Wow! Right? What was a predictor?

Starting point is 00:48:29 Lp little a, lipoprotein little a, fibrinogen, so clotting abnormalities, right? And then metabolic abnormalities, you know. So, the ones who had FH and low insulin and low waist circumference, as a surrogate for optimal metabolic health, their relative risk Gary of developing heart disease with FH was only very slightly higher than the healthiest person in the normal population.

Starting point is 00:48:53 But high LP little a and for brinogen. Okay. Those are the two. Okay. And then of course, other things, diabetes, high triglycerides, et cetera, right? Smoking, hypertension. So, cause this is really interesting cause I utilize all this information. I manage people with FH and many of them don't,

Starting point is 00:49:08 they're not in cholesterol or in drugs. So that's the first thing. That's FH. The other side of it is let's play devil's advocate here on the side of the people pushing the cholesterol hypothesis and why they did that. They found that people who had genetically low cholesterol, okay, those people didn't develop heart disease.

Starting point is 00:49:24 They didn't live any longer, but they didn't develop heart disease. They didn't live any longer, but they didn't develop heart disease. They didn't intend to, right? And they call this Mendelian randomization studies, right? Where they basically take people with certain markers and they look, they follow them up and find out there was no disease in that particular group because of what they predicted. Wow. Now that's different. So that's where they thought, okay, we've got very high cholesterol causing heart disease

Starting point is 00:49:43 prematurely, very low cholesterol, no heart disease. Oh, it must be a linear relationship. Like you lower the... So they went with this hypothesis to say, okay, if we lower the cholesterol... So they started doing these drugs were developed before statins. I can't remember the names of all of them, but they were drugs that randomized trials using cholesterol lowering drugs and even some dietary trials and they kept doing these trials and there was no benefit. They were lowering cholesterol,

Starting point is 00:50:10 but there was no benefit. It wasn't preventing heart attacks. So they kept thinking we must be doing it wrong or maybe we're not lowering the cholesterol enough. Suddenly they could discover statins. Okay. And statins are now showing a benefit albeit small, which we'll talk about. However, what we know now, what wasn't fully appreciated then, is statins have an independent effect on inflammation and clotting. That's how they benefit, right? Probably that's how they have a benefit, nothing to do with cholesterol. Okay, let's move forward.

Starting point is 00:50:40 Let's go another step forward. One of the other interesting findings from framing in which was never publicized that once you hit 50, as your cholesterol dropped, your mortality rate increased, cardiovascular death rate increased. Wow. So as your cholesterol dropped, your mortality rate went up. Because most of the issues around heart attacks coming up to the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, that was really getting

Starting point is 00:51:00 a lot of people's attention that people were having heart attacks under the age of 60, right? That was killing people in their 40s and 50s, right? But after 50 or so, myself, a lot of people's attention that people were having heart attacks under the age of 60, right? That was killing people in their 40s and 50s, right? But after 50 or so myself, a number of scientists in 2016 published in BMJ open a systematic review. Well, we looked at basically all the observational studies of people. It was evolving over 70,000 participants in many studies looking to see was there an association with LDL cholesterol in heart disease and people over 60? looking to see, was there an association with LDL cholesterol in heart disease in people over 60, first of all,

Starting point is 00:51:27 we found no association. Surprise, surprise, zero. And an inverse association with all cause mortality. Okay. In other words- This is definitely not making the media, man. Well, you kind of made this from your work. It's definitely not, yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:40 The higher LDL, the less likely you are to die. So why was that? LDL has a role in clearing bacterial toxins, right? In the immune system. And older people are more vulnerable to dying from infections and even probably linked to cancer as well. So there's probably some protective mechanism there from LDL. So you've got no association with heart disease in older people, right?

Starting point is 00:51:58 So the next question is, okay, there was a mantra that was being pushed in cardiology amongst doctors, amongst the profession for a very long time, that the lower your LDL using mainly drugs, but potentially diet as well, this linear relationship as your lower LDL, you get a reduction in heart attacks and strokes and that's a linear relationship and the lower, the better, right? Right. To the extent where his name, if I remember correctly, his surname was Roberts. I think it was William Roberts, who in one of the cardiology journals,

Starting point is 00:52:30 he's the editor of one of the major cardiology journals, 2011, he wrote a paper, an article, which was entitled, It's the cholesterol, stupid. Right? Yeah. And in that he wrote, I mean, you read it and you just think, this is just unbelievable. He wrote basically, you can be an obese diabetic sedentary smoker and as long as your cholesterol

Starting point is 00:52:49 is low enough, you will never develop heart disease. Oh my God. Wow. Right? So we tested this hypothesis by actually looking at industry's... Is he still practicing today? I think he probably is. I mean, these people, to be honest, listen, I'm a compassionate guy and I'm open to people,

Starting point is 00:53:04 you know, changing their minds, but people who still be honest, listen, I'm a compassionate guy and I'm open to people changing their minds, but people who still continue to cling to this, they need cardiologists, lipidologists, doctors out there, having heard this and they still cling to this hypothesis, I think they need to hang their heads in shame. Yeah, I would agree with you. Enough is enough, Gary, honestly. Oh yeah, I agree with you.

Starting point is 00:53:20 You'd be too polite with these people now. Yeah, too polite. They're reigniting the cholesterol hypothesis with the new drugs because it's a huge cash cow. This is a trillion dollar industry, right? So we've got to understand this is what, you know, part of the reason why we are where we are. But myself and our second author in this paper,

Starting point is 00:53:35 a systematic review to cardiologists in 2020 in BMJ evidence-based medicine, we looked at 35 randomized control trials involving some of the new cholesterol-lowering drugs like Rapatha, statins and azetamide to find, is there a relationship from those trials? We looked at all the trials where they measured LDL reduction and looked at cardiovascular events and we put it all together and we found no relationship.

Starting point is 00:54:00 So really, when you put it all together from from going back to Castelli's report, and then most recently, Gary, this is brilliant, only last week, publication in American Journal of Cardiology Advances. I know one of the lead co-author, Nick Norwitz, brilliant guy. They did a study taking people who are known as, just to explain to our listeners, these are called lean mass hyper responders. So these are a subset of people who go keto low carb, usually slim, okay? About 10% of them, when they go keto low carb, their LDL shoots up through the roof, right? Really high, up to about 300. Okay? Really high. So what they did was they used something called CLEARLY, which is a more advanced...

Starting point is 00:54:46 The hard imaging? Yeah, hard imaging. CLEARLY scan. CLEARLY scan, looking at plaque. Soft plaques. Soft plaques, right? And they did this in their participants where the median duration that they'd had LDLs of that high

Starting point is 00:54:58 was a 4.7 years. And then they took them, 100 people exactly, and they measured over one year to see, was there any relationship between plot progression and LDL, right? And it was very minimal to zero progression. There was no relationship at all. Wow.

Starting point is 00:55:14 And people with LDLs of around, you know, between 202 and 60, but some of them were up at 500. Nick Norwitz's own LDL is 560 odd. This guy's a young, you know, medical student, you know, brilliant at what he's doing, brilliant researcher. And this is what they found. There was no relationship with ApoB or LDL.

Starting point is 00:55:31 The only relationship that related to plot regression is if you already had a bit of plaque already, but not with LDL. So Gary, you put it all together. You know, this is, this is I, my approach, and I'm very explicit with my patients. And I tell them in my consultations that lowering your LDL cholesterol is absolutely not part of my management plan in preventing your heart disease, progressing, reversing your

Starting point is 00:55:56 heart disease or managing your risk. Yeah. And, and because this is what the data tells us. And you know, what's astounding is,ounding is, we would see in the folks that had cholesterol-lowering drugs, you would see the downstream consequences of joint pain, of water retention, of weight, brain fog, of all kinds of even early onset cognitive decline across multiple categories.

Starting point is 00:56:22 And you know, one of the things I bring up a lot is that we rarely, if ever, will do trials on looking at medications, multiple medications in the same bio. So you have a little bit of elevated LDL, so now you're on a statin and your blood pressure was high the last couple of visits, so now you're on a beta blocker, maybe an ACE inhibitor, maybe you're on a statin and your blood pressure was high the last couple of visits. So now you're on a beta blocker, maybe an ACE inhibitor, maybe you're on a diuretic.

Starting point is 00:56:50 And you're a little bit sad. So now you're on an SSRI. And we start to put these different pharmaceutical compounds into the same biome to treat different consequences, but we've never looked at what happens in the synergistic pharmacological impact of multiple medications. At least I've never been able to find those studies

Starting point is 00:57:10 and I've looked for them before to say, what happens when you put somebody on psychiatric medication, on narcotic? We know about major drug interactions, right? Contraindications. But contraindications are, you know, drugs that you don't want to combine because they do something sinister relatively quickly. But what about when somebody is on a statin and on an SSRI and on a beta blocker or a

Starting point is 00:57:39 calcium channel blocker and they're on a little bit of thyroid medication and, you know, they're on a corticosteroid for some anti-inflammatory, which by the way, is not uncommon. You know, what is it at age 60 or 65? What's the number of medications the average American is on? I forget the number, but it's five or seven. Yeah. And we've never studied all of these together.

Starting point is 00:57:58 So we're just, we're putting these into the same pool very often unnecessarily. And one of the things that we knew from the mortality space was the more pharmaceuticals you were on, the easier it was for me to predict your life expectancy. Um, because I could not only predict the onset of, but the severity of and how quickly you would statistically succumb to certain conditions. Um, you know, you,

Starting point is 00:58:22 you've also highlighted a lot that inflammation, not cholesterol per se, is the issue. And I wanna drill into that for a second because we're seeing metabolic syndrome, and I think Maha has thrown a bright light on this, we're seeing metabolic syndrome start to occur in younger and younger and younger ages. I mean, you have 13-year, 14 year olds, 15 year olds

Starting point is 00:58:45 starting to show the early signs of metabolic syndrome. I'm in my 50s, it used to be reserved for when you got to my age, right? This is when you start doing your colonoscopies. Of course. And you start doing all the preventative, wearing readers, cause everybody's wearing readers. Do you wear readers?

Starting point is 00:59:00 Do you wear the readers, the glasses? No, long distance. But I've done since I was 16. No, neither do I, buddy. Since I was 16. We're doing good. We're doing good. So sign of intelligence, apparently.

Starting point is 00:59:11 Yeah, I do feel smarter. I wear the blue light ones because it makes me feel smarter. So this myriad of combination of abdominal obesity, hypertension, hypercholesterolemia, low HDL, cholesterol, hydrocholesteroid, high insulin. And that the genesis of this is the inflammatory process,

Starting point is 00:59:37 not necessarily the presence of cholesterol. Oh yes, completely. And I wondered if you might speak on that for a minute. I mean, you know, I often liken cholesterol to the fireman. I think it's called to the scene of the fire to put the fire out. Right? I mean, if no one called the fireman... It's part of the immune system, isn't it? Exactly. It's part of the injury. 100%. And they don't just show up. I mean, if there wasn't a fire in this building we're sitting in right now, a fireman's not just gonna all of a sudden

Starting point is 01:00:06 barge in this door. And cholesterol's the same way. It's not just gonna show up to the arterial wall, pass the arterial wall, begin to make foam cells without something calling it to that site. And so can you talk a little bit about the inflammatory cascade? And then maybe for the listener,

Starting point is 01:00:20 what would they test for? Like a C-reactive protein or something, what would they test for? And a C-reactive protein or something, what would they test for? And how would they best manage it? Yeah, so I think the underlying process that drives the inflammation, if you like, so I think the best way to think about this and break it down, Gary, is that our immune system

Starting point is 01:00:40 is obviously involved in all these processes of disease. Our bodies are designed to respond to any toxins that come into the body. And, you know, whether it's diet, whether it's something in the water supply, whether it's something in the air, whether it's something injected into us, even chronic stress is in a way is, uh, it activates the immune system. Immune system has a role to play acutely to deal with pathogens. But the problem is that when it's over-activated, constantly responding to some kind of threat in the body or responding to a toxin, then the collateral damage of that immune response is that our own tissues

Starting point is 01:01:14 start to get damaged, right? And certainly when it comes to heart disease, if you look at insulin resistance, essentially the way to explain that is that we've had too much insulin, which is of course a really important hormone in the body that has so many functions, fat storage, metabolizing of glucose, for example, is that if it's over-activated and too high, and that response to high glycemic index carbohydrates, ultra processed food, for example, then chronically raised insulin itself is directly toxic to the inner lining of the heart arteries, the endothelium. And that's what happened essentially. That's the pro. That's why, for example, even very well controlled type one diabetics, the most well controlled will have a life expectancy 10 years less than average and mainly die of complications

Starting point is 01:02:02 of cardiovascular disease predominantly because of the insulin. Right? So that's the issue. That's the, we, it's not fully understood the mechanisms, but we know that high insulin is not good. Right. And the cells even becoming resistant to the way that insulin works is what we call insulin resistance, usually because of chronically raised insulin, but it could also be happening at a cellular level through different mechanisms, for example, through stress, uh, through inactivity as well. So these are how they all interact. I think what's positive and gives us hope is, and we know this from, there's some good research out there on this. And we know from

Starting point is 01:02:36 clinical practice that when you intervene to reduce insulin, right, through lifestyle measures, then a lot of these conditions, these markers, these manifestations of high triglycerides in the blood, high blood pressure, you know, high blood glucose, they start to improve. And the quickest and the low hanging fruit for us to, the way for us to do that is really to go low carb. That seems to be the most effective quickest way. There are other ways to do it too, but low carb, you reduce the foods that are causing the rapid surges in glucose, which then cause a rapid surge in insulin from the diet. And that's how you can manage it.

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Starting point is 01:04:03 Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. Yeah, and I think that all too often, we're not looking at it as multifactorial, we're just looking at as a single number, if this is high, you have a high risk, let's just push that one number down. Of course, it's too, too, too linear. You know, there's there's a lot of talk about you potentially stepping into a role in the in the new administration, and maybe in a myriad of things, but around the the Maha movement with with Bobby Kennedy.

Starting point is 01:04:34 What would be some of your agenda items, early agenda items day one, especially as a cardiologist? Yeah, I think we have to put to the forefront that managing metabolic syndrome, improving metabolic health has to be a priority for all Americans. Gary, 93% of American adults have suboptimal metabolic health. That is insane. And isn't it hard? And when you say suboptimal metabolic health, cause it sounds like a little bit of a word salad to people who don't come from it. So you want all your five markers to be in the normal rate. So waist circumference. You guys should write these down. Yeah, waist circumference, triglycerides, HDL,

Starting point is 01:05:13 blood pressure, glucose, that's it. If you have all those five, you're in a much better state, not just from a heart disease, but yeah, even cancer. 5%. Right, after smoking, it's likely, I mean, obesity is called the second biggest cause of cancer after smoking, but if you go before obesity, it's interresistant.

Starting point is 01:05:30 So it's likely to be even more beneficial. Wow. Right, Alzheimer's is considered type three diabetes. Yeah, it's the resistance in the brain. Yeah, mental health problems we now know has a huge component linked to diet. There's a lot of work being done in Stanford for metabolic psychiatry, which I've been involved in.

Starting point is 01:05:45 I actually interviewed a Stanford metabolic psychiatrist. I am on my podcast. Forget his name. Who, what was his name, Max? The Harvard. Oh, Christopher Gardner. Oh, no, Christopher Gardner, Chris Palmer. Palmer, yeah, Chris Palmer, thank you.

Starting point is 01:05:59 Yeah, very interesting guy. I don't know why it slipped me. So mental health as well, because of course the- Even drug resistant mental illness, the actual drug resistance, the really bad ones. 100%. So I think that would be a big focus certainly that I would, across the board where,

Starting point is 01:06:16 but what also that means, Gary, linked to that is empowering doctors with nutrition education to manage chronic disease. Most of the doctors don't know about the basics of this. And it's not rocket science. We can teach them quite quickly so they can do it. But also thinking Gary as well, and this is really important, the elephant in the room, if you like, is that most of what drives our behaviors are socially and environmentally conditioned more than we like to think. You know, there's all this kind of mantra and to

Starting point is 01:06:41 some degree, listen, I am probably one of the most disciplined people I know. In terms of, I've really pushed the boundaries in everything I've tried to do, whether it's been sport, something in sport, whether it's pursuing career in cardiology, whatever else, right? But I also know that, you know, that our environment plays such a big role in terms of, you know, before I was fully aware, this is up until my early thirties. I mean, I was a proper sugar addict. I mean, I was consuming sugar like you wouldn't believe. And I just thought it was fine. It was healthy and I was addicted, right?

Starting point is 01:07:15 You know, probably why? Because you know, you're naturally thin. And so you, you know, if you're not morbidly obese and you're thin and you can eat a lot of sugar, I mean, and you're active. But what we've now discovered now is that even if you're slim morbidly obese and you're thin and you can eat a lot of sugar. I mean, and you're active, but what we have now discovered now is that even if you're slim and active, eating too much sugar is still going to give you significant harm, right? So all those plays into it. But I think that what's the reason I'm saying this is if you look at the, what's driven the chronic disease problem, the big low hanging fruit with overwhelming evidence, if not the

Starting point is 01:07:43 most important driver, one of the most important drivers is the food environment, right? You know, it's most of the default option in the United States for most people is ultra processed food. Yeah. Right. So it has to have an environmental approach to on a policy level and the way we do it, we have to think about, but what I would suggest the way we could start thinking about it is America led the world in tobacco control, right? And, you know, and that meant reducing the effective availability of tobacco in the environment. And the way to do that was

Starting point is 01:08:16 increasing its price, right? That automatically that's economics 101. Yeah. You get just... Well, I mean, Bobby Kennedy has just gotten 25 states to sign on to, you know, the SNAP program prohibiting the use of our, you know, our welfare dollars for, for sodas. Yeah, exactly. And I think there's a $10 billion hole right there.

Starting point is 01:08:35 100%. I mean, 110, $120 billion a year spent on SNAP programs for the most vulnerable. And 10 billion of that going to, high fructose corn, so laden sodas, which is pretty astounding. Yeah, and it's also the kind of idiocracy that flies in the face of conventional thinking

Starting point is 01:08:58 because everyone purports to want to protect and serve the least fortunate. And yet these are the ones that are continually preyed upon by a lot of these targeted by these current practices. In fact, if you could rewrite something in public health policy, where would you start? You know, if you had the pen right now. Yeah, okay, right.

Starting point is 01:09:28 Trump's pen. Okay, fine. So ultra processed food, first of all, public health education campaign for everybody. Ultra processed food is a new tobacco. It is the new tobacco. It's the new tobacco. I like that.

Starting point is 01:09:38 So 60% of the calories consumed in the United States come from ultra processed food to give people an idea. Like we're all, and it's interesting, Gary, if you go back to 1970, 50% of adults were smokers. So there are some parallels here, right? Now it's way less than 20%, but it's huge, huge drops. Cardiovascular disease, yeah. It's still gone up, even though smoking has gone down. Yeah. Cause the death rate went down, but now then platelet start to go up again, right? So that would be one thing I would, um, listen, I'm, I'm against prohibition and banning stuff, but I think there are certain

Starting point is 01:10:10 environments and places where those foods should not be available or sold hospitals. We should ban the sale of ultra processed food in hospitals. They shouldn't be getting served to patients in public schools. And schools as well. I was going to come into that. So schools and hospitals, let's ban ultra processed food availability, right? Cause that, what it does is it legitimizes the acceptability of those foods. There was a study very interestingly done by Kelly Brownell

Starting point is 01:10:35 many years ago that showed that hospitals that sold fast food had junk food on sale. People who visitors of that hospital were four times more likely to leave the hospital and purchase junk food than people that never gone to the hospital in the first place. Are you kidding me? Yeah. So it's almost like having this subliminal kind of effect on your mind. Like, oh, this is if it's being sold in the hospital, it must be fine.

Starting point is 01:10:55 It's not going to be bad for your health. Right. Right. So that's certainly what we... I just showed you the video of my buddy sitting in the ICU unit. It's madness. What do we do with tobacco? We banned advertising of tobacco. Let's ban the advertising of multiprocess food, right? Especially as we've talked already,

Starting point is 01:11:11 they target some of the most vulnerable members of society, especially children. And what's sad is that even for someone as astute as myself, even as astute as yourself, you know, like when I checked into my Airbnb, I mean, we're here in Austin, Texas, we opened the pantry below the steps. And just for some fun, you know,

Starting point is 01:11:30 one of my social media manager turned on the video and we started grabbing things off the shelf and there's a big bottle of, you know, vegetable oil. And it says heart healthy. And there's a big American Heart Association label on it with a big, beautiful red heart. You know, you walk down the cereal aisle and it says fortified or enriched,

Starting point is 01:11:51 which, you know, the word fortified, the word enriched, or, you know, natural fruit flavor, or we actually put whatever is not on the label that really isn't even related to the food, like non-GMO or gluten-free or vegan as if that... Health washing. Health washing.

Starting point is 01:12:15 That's the word, you know. It's actually an exploitation of behavioral psychology. So we know, I knew about this work when I was doing stuff in the UK and advising government there, is that people purchase foods based more upon the marketing than actually what the nutritional content. Yeah. And the food industry knows that. You know, and I heard Alex Lugavere say one time, he said a couple of things are really kind of funny. One was if your grocery store has a health food section, what does that tell you about the rest of the store? But also that, Oh, did I say Alex? Oh, I meant Max Lugavere.

Starting point is 01:12:48 Sorry, Max, I do know it's Max Lugavere. And the other thing he said was that, real health foods don't make claims, right? Like when there's no claim on the avocado. When you look at the avocados and tomatoes and lettuce and spinach, there's not like big health claims in those areas where you go to cereals and process garbage. Rule of thumb, I tell my patients, if it's advertised or marked as healthy, it's likely the opposite.

Starting point is 01:13:11 It's going to have the opposite effect on your health. Yeah. Right. Because it's how these corporations work. But the other thing to add in, and another really important thing that we need to think about as well, Gary, is people having enough income to afford to live a healthy life. One shocking statistic I came across recently, I really couldn't believe it. It really touched my heart as well.

Starting point is 01:13:30 And I was, is that, you know, the largest employee in the United States is the healthcare industry. More than 18 million people employed by the healthcare industry, right? In the United States. In the US. 20, about 24% of men and about 35% of women who are working in the healthcare industry, as care assistants or healthcare workers, right?

Starting point is 01:13:52 Are earning less than $15 per hour. LL No. C H Okay. And 1 million children of healthcare workers are living in poverty. LL No. C H I mean, how is that acceptable? Like how can any, I mean, I, I've mentioned to a few people even in my heart, even I had a conversation today this morning with some senior people in my heart just about some work we're doing together and they were shocked.

Starting point is 01:14:15 They were absolutely shocked. They couldn't believe it. Wow. So one of the things is we can say, let's start in our own backyard. Okay. Let's see, let's, let's work through the hospitals. Let's make sure that our staff are as healthy as they can be. Let's improve their metabolic health.

Starting point is 01:14:29 Let's improve their environments. Let's make sure they've got a fair income. You know, if they got at least $15 an hour, it's been estimated you could poverty levels by 50% very quickly amongst those healthcare workers. And we can afford to do it now. Absolutely. Especially if we start trimming some of the fat.

Starting point is 01:14:43 No, but not just that. Like in terms of people say, well, where's the money? I see, I've had this conversation in the UK with policy makers like, well, the money's there. It's in the wrong place. You've got these big corporations who, you know, I'm all for people making money through merit and through innovation and doing good stuff, right?

Starting point is 01:15:01 But their business model is fraud, Gary. And there's billions and billions and maybe trillions of dollars hidden in tax havens, which is not being put back into the public purse, right? You could very quickly sort the problems out in America with some bold leadership that says, listen, you know what? You know, people say tax the rich. I don't think that sounds right. Let's tax the fraudsters, which by the way, which happened to be some of the richest people in America.

Starting point is 01:15:27 Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I, I could not agree with you more. And I really pray that you get to step into a role. Gary, one of the things I would also say, you know, president Trump's book talk about making America great again. Bobby Kennedy says this in the sixties, America was considered the moral authority in the world, right? And it made sense up until about 1970, 1980, the health of Americans, the average American was better than most other Western European countries. This is actually very true.

Starting point is 01:15:55 Right? Yes. But it was this economic policies. I'm sure they were well-intentioned by Reagan. We had Margaret Thatcher in the UK of complete deregulation of these industries where they had a regard then for multiple stakeholders that their businesses would look after fine, you know, their profits, but actually it was about public good, right? They've now just purely care about the, their investors and their shareholders and to the detriment of public because of

Starting point is 01:16:21 these policies that, and then they've got more and more power. And society that functions well throughout history, knowing human nature, Gary, is also to stop any single entity getting so much power that they can then be abused. We have to have relative equality. And it's so hard to dislodge now. You see a lot of what's going on now is the entrenched, deeply ingrained, completely deep rooted, you know, spheres of influence that it's very difficult to uproot. And it's become tyrannical. Right? Jordan Peterson says,

Starting point is 01:16:56 tyranny emerges when people are afraid to say what they think. When you have something to say, being silent is a lie, okay? When everyone lies all the time, the tyranny is complete. And you see that even, for example, the COVID vaccine with statins, have many doctors who talk to me and say, I see my completely with you, thank you to get emotional, but I'm afraid to speak out. I hear that all the time now, Gary.

Starting point is 01:17:19 This is a symptom of a corporate tyranny. That's what we need to label it as. And once people, everyone knows that, then we can reform it. We need an industry, but we need to reform them. We created these industries through laws that, by the way, most of us didn't know were being changed behind the scenes to allow them to have so much power,

Starting point is 01:17:37 but we have the power of the people and policy makers to change the legal entity that is a corporation, to get them back to what they used to be in America, which is actually helping doing public good. Awesome. What does it mean to you to be an ultimate human? I think to act with courageous compassion. Well, you're doing that.

Starting point is 01:17:55 I'm trying my best. It's work in progress. You're doing that. And I know that you've taken a lot of, a lot of flack for it. By the way, I also want to give another plug for your documentary, Do No Farm. First Do No Farm. Yeah, first Do No Farm. Absolutely amazing.

Starting point is 01:18:10 We're gonna link it in the show notes below. I may be an investor in this because I really want to help you get the word out. And I pray for you all the time and I hope that you get this position and you can help us become healthier again. Thank you, my friend. Dr. Malhotra, I can talk to you all day, man.

Starting point is 01:18:26 I hope you'll come back on for a third run. I'm gonna take you into my VIP group now. You know, my VIPs, they have a lot of questions for you and I always give them a chance to ask questions to you directly. If you're interested in becoming one of my Ultimate Human VIPs, just go over to theultimatehuman.com forward slash VIP,

Starting point is 01:18:45 sign up to be one of my VIPs, it's 97 bucks a month. And I pour myself into this group. This is where we get to do live Q and A's with people like Dr. Asim Malhotra and many, many others. I was in there yesterday with Joe Rogan. That was an amazing one. You can ask any question that you want, especially in these large group formats.

Starting point is 01:19:06 So for the rest of you guys, I hope that you enjoyed this podcast. And as always, that's just science.

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The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka - 173. Dr. Aseem Malhotra: What 1,000s Of Doctors Are Saying About The COVID Vaccine Safety Data

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