The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka - 201. Sam Maxwell & Kyle Ponton: Cold Plunging Science & Health Benefits + How You Can Start!

Starting point is 00:00:00 My favorite part about cold punching is that it changed my life completely. I was diagnosed with severe ADHD when I was young. I was just Googling what can help me with an adderol addiction. So when I found the cold therapy being able to substitute that, I was buying ice every single day. I'm a walking testimonial of what we sell and what we created. I literally call it my drug of choice because nothing makes me feel better for longer. That aspect of getting out and just being so clear, people are realizing, man, there's so many ways to feel really good. drug and alcohol.

Starting point is 00:00:31 And that's when we then connected on how much he believed in cold plunging. He was like, dude, let's stop everything we're both doing right now, put our brains together, and let's create our own product. Most people see comfort very aggressively. They avoid any level of discomfort, not realizing that some level of discomfort can make you stronger. There's really something to be sad about pursuing the discomfort to where then when stuff comes out to you, you just feel like you got it.

Starting point is 00:00:54 I always say if your morning is hard, your day will be easy. Doing that very hard thing in the morning just sets me up for my day. I feel like cold exposure is one of those things that is going to still be mainstream 5,000 years for now. When you look at the intelligence, really break this down, you get into a cold punch. What is the body going to do in that situation? One of the things that I found very interesting was, and I didn't really learn about this really until this past year or two, is... Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist, Gary Brecker, where we go down the road of everything,

Starting point is 00:01:38 anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. Today's going to be a really special podcast because it's on a broad topic that so many people are interested in and even more people are confused about. So I'm really, really excited to run this podcast on cold plunging. And I've asked two of my very good friends and partners to come to the podcast today. So welcome, Sam and Kyle from Cold Life Cold Plungees. Welcome to the podcast, guys. Thanks for having us all, Gary.

Starting point is 00:02:04 We're pumped to be here, man. This has been an awesome journey. I mean, in full disclosure, I'm a shareholder in Cold Life, a proud shareholder. I met you guys a few years ago through my son. I fell in love with the purpose and the passion. It reminded me a lot of, you know, when I was getting going off the ground, young entrepreneur, passionate about an idea. unrelenting, but what I really appreciated about you guys was the level of intentionality that

Starting point is 00:02:37 you had in bringing your product to market. You wanted it to be American made. You wanted to have the best motors. You wanted to have the most durable plunge. And I don't want to turn this into a commercial for Cold Life because I want to go into the science of cold lunging. But I want to get that out of the way first. This is not a podcast to sell you a cold lunch. Of course. the podcast, you know, talking about all of the benefits. So let's just rewind the clock a little bit. I mean, how and why did you decide to take the leap into cold plunging and make that your life? I'll start. So for me, my journey was honestly a little simple. You know, I got invited one Saturday morning. I don't know. This is probably four or five years ago now, probably right before COVID era.

Starting point is 00:03:19 I'm from Atlanta. So in Atlanta, the wintertime, it gets pretty cold. So thankfully, we have some pretty cold water near us and all the showers and such. I had a couple crazy buddies of mine and we said, hey, let's just go to a local pool and do this in the morning. It's like 8 a.m. Saturday morning. You know, what else better do I got to do than go jump into a pool of cold water? So I started to do this. And it just, it was incredible for me. I literally came out of there. I had no idea what any of these benefits were.

Starting point is 00:03:44 I didn't know any of this, the mental clarity, the inflammation. I didn't know any of these buzzwords. I just knew I felt like incredible. And it was just so addictive. So we kept on coming back. And then five of us turned into 20 of us, turned into 60 of us. turned into 60 of us, turned into almost hundreds of us

Starting point is 00:03:57 getting together weekly back in Atlanta. Really? To jump in the lake. To just jump into a pool. There used to be something in Chicago. I went to grad school in Chicago. It was called the Polar Club. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:04:09 Do you remember that? Like once a year they'd all go, I actually didn't do that for the record, but they would all go bum rush Lake Michigan. I was like, yeah, yeah. That guys are crazy. Yeah, yeah. But it was like women.

Starting point is 00:04:21 Yeah, everybody. Kids, a whole nine. Yeah, there's a big community of everything. So that, and that's what this turned into, it was just a big community, which is why I loved it. And then Sam and I had, you know, had met and we were doing some different, you know, business things on the side. And so one day I walk in, this is while I'm doing these events and such, I walk into Sam and I'm going over there to say, hey, you need to come check out this coal punch thing we're doing. We're doing pools. You know, next weekend you got to come by.

Starting point is 00:04:43 And I walk in and I'll let Sam share his side of the story on that. But that's really where I discovered, wait, you're doing coal plunging too? Yeah, I had just discovered cold punching. And my favorite part about cold punching is that it changed my life completely. You know, so a lot of people do say that. And for people that are watching this, are like, okay, golfing really changed your life. Yeah, sure.

Starting point is 00:05:04 I get it. Where's the affiliate link, guys? Yeah, no, seriously. But for me, I'm, you know, I'm a walking testimonial of what we sell and what we created. And going into that, I was diagnosed with severe ADHD when I was young. And when I met Kyle, I was just trying to get over my addiction of taking Adderall. as I got older, I hated that I was absolutely dependent on a medication. Wow.

Starting point is 00:05:26 And the older I got, the more I was aware of how horrible the person it made me. That's a tough one, too, man. My family, everyone that was close to me was scared to confront Sam about his addiction to Adderall. I wouldn't sleep for days. I would take multiple a day. I got down like 145 pounds, and I was oblivious. So the older I got, I was looking for an outlet, a natural way to battle my ADHD but not take the medication anymore. Right. So after doing some research, I saw that cold therapy

Starting point is 00:05:56 was a possible solution to fix that. And I tried cryro and just for me personally, it didn't make me get over that edge. I was still craving the medication. Then I discovered ice bass. So I bought a plastic barrel at my office. I didn't want to spend thousands of dollars on the few that were on the market at the time. And I bought a barrel and I was buying ice every single day. And I didn't miss a day for like 14 days. Really? And within 14 days, I reflected and I was like, I'm not craving the adorn. But who was the one that was like, hey, dude, I think you need to try. Was that you? It was you. Well, it actually wasn't me. I won't take the credit for that. I came in. It was completely independently, which is probably why we're, like an article, I think. I was like up at the office,

Starting point is 00:06:36 like late at night, didn't have my prescription. I was just struggling, right? Drink so much caffeine every single day. And I was just Googling. I was out of curiosity. Like, what can help me with an Adderall addiction. And I looked at cold therapy. There was a few articles at the time that said that it could help. Yeah. Which we'll dive into in a little bit. But I started doing ice bass and a plastic barrel. And he walked into my office at the time when we were doing a different venture together. He's like, bro. He's like, no, what's going on? What do we got to go out here? He's like, what's this Jeffrey Dahmer bucket in the corner of your office? It is true. This crusty thing. He walks over to it. And he's like, dude, this water's disgusting. And I'm like,

Starting point is 00:07:18 I'm like, dude, I don't care. I'm like, I get ice every day. I'm like, I'm tired to buy an ice, but I was like, I don't miss a day, dude. And that's when we then connected on how much he believed in cold plunging. Yeah. I started telling him about, I want to start a cold punch company. And he was like, dude, let's stop everything we're both doing right now, put our brains together, and let's create our own product. And what were you guys doing at the time?

Starting point is 00:07:39 I was, I had my own prior, like, e-commerce business selling a 360 spending photo boost. Okay. I used to always follow trends. And what I like to say about the cold plunge is that I'm not in this because it's a trend. I'm in this because it changed my life. And now we want this to impact as many lives as possible. Good for you. So I'm very proud of myself for getting off that drug.

Starting point is 00:07:58 And now every day communicating with customers and possible prospects to join the cold life and be a customer. People are battling ADHD and it's not talk about enough. Yeah, you know, I talk about this a lot, you know, because I've studied genetic methylation pathways and how the body converts nutrients and what have you. one of the nutrients that we make in the human body, we make dopamine, we make serotonin, we make the neurotransmitters, that create our mood, that create our emotions.

Starting point is 00:08:26 And so if we're making them inside the body, when we take things from outside the body and put them in in an effort to try to fix that deficiency, it never works, right? I mean, it works for a period of time, but it creates dependency or creates something called tachyphylaxis, which is desensitization. So, I mean, unknowingly, you basically stepped on a physiologic secret

Starting point is 00:08:50 in that your body can produce these chemicals on its own. It was so powerful. Within myself, I was 25 at the time, and I was like, this is me going to the next chapter of my life, trying to become a better person. Yeah, I literally call it my drug of choice. And the reason why I say drug of choice is because nothing makes me feel better for longer. And there's no downside to it. There's no downside to it. There's no downside.

Starting point is 00:09:11 Yes, there's no doubt. Other than the apprehension right before you get it. Exactly, it's always cold. But then that gives you that kind of sense of accomplishment. Which you'll kind of learn as an upside down the road, you know, doing that hard thing. What are the top three reasons why I prefer a vertical cold plunge versus a laydown tub? Well, I've used both. When you're in a vertical position, your body naturally regulates your breathing better.

Starting point is 00:09:31 So if you're holding on to the sides and you're in a vertical position, you can just focus on your breathwork and you can stay calm. A lot of people feel more calm when they're in a vertical position than when they're laying down in the water and think they might slip under the water. So when you're vertical plunging, you're fully immersed faster. You can focus on recovery, inflammation reduction, and you're not struggling to just stay in a lie-down position. Your body floats in an awkward way sometimes. So it's just a more efficient, comfortable experience in my opinion. It takes up way less space too. It has a smaller footprint. So you can put these on your patio, your garage, your bathroom, your locker room. You can really put it anywhere. I've got one on my balcony.

Starting point is 00:10:06 I've got two in my bathroom. So this is why cold life is my favorite cold plunge on the market. So click the link below and you can order yours today. Make sure you get the ultimate human version. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human podcast. Yeah, that's great. So how about you? What was your first kind of for me? You're into the cold plunging now.

Starting point is 00:10:24 You've got a little bit of background. You walk in. He's in the dirty algae water. That's a guy I want to be in business with. It was a fucking bucket full of algae. Give him the honest. Great choice, dude. Well, you know what?

Starting point is 00:10:35 You know this because now we've gotten to know each other for some years now. And so we know this, but in life, everything is about relationships. No question. And so when I met Sam, we actually had a whole complete different business together. I'd given him some money for really just kind of an investment into some e-commerce stuff he was doing. And it completely flopped and failed. And through that process, Sam really showed the kind of person he was by not only making me whole and making efforts to do that, but the communication and showing and being transparent and showing all the effort.

Starting point is 00:11:05 And so I like to judge a character when things are not good, not when things are great. it's very easy to hide things. I will say you guys have done, proven that to me too. Well, thank you. We appreciate that because it's easy to hide when things are good. You know, numbers help, right? You know, everyone's doing well and everyone wants to really poke the bear. But when things are tough, everyone looks to go point fingers.

Starting point is 00:11:24 And that's not what Sam did, which I really respected. And I said, hey, I don't really, you know, I want to do something with you. Let's find a project together. And so for me, I was starting this coal plunges out, and it was just five of us. And then so fast, it turned into 20 and then 30 and then 100. And I was like, there's so much more people who want to do this. There's so much more people who want to be a part of this. And so when I talked to Sam about it, I said, man, we should start something.

Starting point is 00:11:47 Well, when it happened for a reason, clearly, because he was actually coming to my office to pick up a partial check to me to get him closer to be at home. I didn't want him to come by that day. Just being honest with you, I was. That's why the cold punch was dirty. He's like, get in here, bro. Literally, literally. I was dreading that day. To be honest with you, it was a rough, like, season of life I was in.

Starting point is 00:12:07 The business flopped. And he came by and we didn't talk about the check for three hours. He was just like, we just talked about it in the corner of the office forever. He's like, dude, what do you like about it? What do you want to do about this? Like we just looked up on Google trends, like the search volume on Google of cold plunging was slowly increasing. And then thanks to Kyle, truthfully, he just was dedicated. And every single day after that day, he showed me that.

Starting point is 00:12:32 I got a real sense for that too when I met you guys. because, you know, the cold plunge space was by no means saturated, but I was actually just coming out of a very difficult cold plunge experience. You know, with my clinics, we invested heavily in this gold plunge company that was actually sourcing everything from China. And I don't have anything against China except everything that comes out of China. But Chinese people are great. That's good way to you know.

Starting point is 00:13:02 Yeah, exactly. I love LoMaine. Is that Chinese? Yeah, I think so. Okay. We'll go with that. A lot of good things come out of China. But, and we bought like 250 of these things, sold them to our biggest clients. And there were thousands of dollars. And then we had a 65% failure rate in the motors.

Starting point is 00:13:19 Cost my partner and I seven figures because we did the right thing. We refunded everybody's money and let them keep the coal plunge. And I was, you know, just coming off of this shell shock and I met you guys. And I was like, oh, gosh, here we go. Yep. But when I started talking to you, you know, American-made, right here in America, American labor, the factory is right down the street from my house. I'm like, I'm going to come put a finger on that guy.

Starting point is 00:13:44 Yep. You know, powder-coated aluminum, durable. And I think I ran mine for about a year before I put my toe in the water with you guys. Yeah, we didn't hear from it. Remember, we came and dropped it off. I was beating that thing up. I had it out in the sun, on and off and then I brought it into the house. And then I started letting everybody get in there every day and I was like, man, these guys are pretty legit.

Starting point is 00:14:06 And then I remember I was like, you know, it's motors like, you know, it's a little bit noisy. You're like, don't worry, next generation we've gotten. You brought the motors over. They're whispered quiet. I was like, okay, I like these guys dedicated to customer quality, dedicated to customer service. What I like to is that you shaped your company, at least from my perspective, on the backs of the feedback you were getting from your customers. 1,000%. We still communicate with our customers frequently.

Starting point is 00:14:32 And no matter how big we get, I mean, since July 1st of this month, nearly every day, I've been helping with sales being on the phone with sales opportunities or even we call customers to get feedback. Ask them how it's going. And it's been a great way to get good clarity that we're at a great position. We have been that the products have a good. It's hard to, I think, do anything, right, if you don't have customer feedback. Because you're just sitting in your own kind of siloed world thinking, I think I have the best sauce of whatever it is. even whatever you for selling product services, media companies, whatever. You know, if you don't hear the feedback from the people,

Starting point is 00:15:05 then you're never really going to know how to make the best thing. Yeah. So for us, we kind of knew, we knew some of the things right early on by going out there and testing the market a little bit. We knew American Made was going to be a massive one. That is a huge thing. I mean, this is even, you know, pre the current administration, which is really incentivizing that.

Starting point is 00:15:23 Yes, exactly. Yeah. And I saw some of your competitors get smoked by the tariffs and whatnot. And it was tough because we know some of our competitors, people, they're not bad people. It was just a really challenging thing that, like you mentioned about China, there's, you know, there's people have their opinions on China and there's certain things that we use every single day that come from China and chillers should just not be one of those things. Right. Yeah, our supposedly had ozone filtration and all this stuff. I mean,

Starting point is 00:15:44 it sounded great. Yeah, exactly. It's super gimmicky, right? It kind of looks like a shiny toy object syndrome is what I call it. You know, looks good, sounds good, that's a cool screen and all that, but our philosophy is very simple when we go about building products. I don't want this to turn into a whole cold life episode about our products, but we're passionate about it. We have a lot of passion behind what we build. And we really take a simple approach behind the engineering and the development of these things, which is just build simple products that look beautiful. And the more you complicate things, the more gadgets and widgets and things and this, you put inside of these machines, the more likely you're going to have something break. And that was our

Starting point is 00:16:18 biggest problem. If you go call any coal punch company and I can guarantee you, you know, they're struggling because the failure rates are high because most of the machines do come from overseas. So we really wanted to stand on that and say we wanted to make an American made product, which, by the way, takes a significant more time, significant more resources, significant more energy, money, everything. It's very challenging to do things here in America. It's also way more expensive. So we went that journey, though, and it took us, you know, coming up on, it took us over a year from just development, you know, before selling anything. Yeah, to really go out there and the tub itself and build these things. So let's delve a little bit into

Starting point is 00:16:55 you know the science and the benefits i mean clearly i'm i'm i'm a believer um you know cold plunging was definitely a tipping point uh for me but now that i'm out there and and looking at the research and you can't you know you're on instagram the stuff comes into my feed you see the people are all over the place on on on cold plunging i think the hardcore cold plungers like like myself um try not to go a day without it i mean in colorado got a hundred and sixty five dollar cattle trough that I jump in because I can't, I don't have electricity, right? Literally, so I can't run a,

Starting point is 00:17:28 I can't run a chiller. So I just bought a $165 aluminum cattle trough. There we go. The water comes out of the glacier at like 42 degrees and I jump in and I don't let it get moldy like yours. I change it every day. But I guess it's not, it wasn't in my office. I would be extremely healthy then.

Starting point is 00:17:46 Yeah, yeah. You hadn't taken my mold detox class yet. Not yet. You can sign up for that challenge. So, you know, but one of the articles I read lately studies was that cold plunging actually reduces the benefits of exercise. And I think that this threw a little, no pun intended, but cold water on the cold plunging space and maybe clarify that or talk about that a little bit, you know, timing or whatnot. I can share some stuff on that.

Starting point is 00:18:19 So there was a recent study that came out. And I think it kind of scared people a little bit thinking like, oh, no, coal plunging is bad. And it's really kind of like anything, it's a very nuanced discussion. It's not general. It's very nuanced. And so when they talk about inflammation being bad after a workout, they're talking about the concept of when you're working out after a heavy lift, right, in a heavy, in a gym exercise where you're actually inflaming the muscles. And that's the intention of the exercise. Then immediately following the exercise, you probably don't want to now de-exercise.

Starting point is 00:18:51 flame the muscle. I would agree with that. Now, you might know more about this. I'm sure there is a time period and that's, I think, where the nuance comes in. Is it an hour? Is it four hours? Is it three hours? I think that's where the kind of the conversation comes in. I think safely, just for everyone's purposes, if you wait a couple hours and just use logic and then you go hop in the cold punch recovery, you're going to be okay. Or if you do it prior to exercise. Or just do it prior to exercise. And I think that's where people misunderstood. It makes, it seems like common sense. Right after the workout, we're going to get in the cold punch for recovery, which like you just said, though,

Starting point is 00:19:24 now I cold punch before I work out. I do too. I don't have to take pre-workout or caffeine or nothing. That's it right there for me. And then additionally, if I want to do it again, I just wait until later in the day. You know, I've actually used it as a contrast therapy sometimes even before I go to bed.

Starting point is 00:19:42 Now, I won't get in for a long time, but I'll do a short tonne of session. Then I'll just go in the cold punch for about 30 seconds, quick, dunk, come up to my neck, hang out for about 30 seconds, and then get out. So it doesn't actually give me that massive spike of, you know, naraphenephrin, dopamine.

Starting point is 00:19:56 Yeah. And I find that I sleep really, really well on those nights. But let's go into the science a little bit of cold plunging. I mean, we know that there are stresses you can apply to the body called hormesis or hermetic stresses. These are stresses that we apply to the body and the body strengthens in response. I often say, we're talking about it before the podcast that, you know, aging is the aggressive pursuit of comfort. and most people seek comfort very aggressively and they avoid any level of discomfort,

Starting point is 00:20:29 not realizing that some level of discomfort can make you stronger. So talk a little bit about direct evidence-back benefits that come from cold plunging. Yeah, absolutely. Actually, interesting enough, so my wife, who you've met, Kayla, when I was doing this whole coal-plutch thing,

Starting point is 00:20:46 she never really got into coal plunging. I kind of did it. Mine took a solid two years. Yeah, that's that right on. Sage was slow. Right on that timeline. Yeah, that's about right. Hey, guys, let me tell you about one of my favorite new hydration drinks.

Starting point is 00:21:01 Now, this is for distance athletes, hits cardio exercises, people that sweat a lot or exercise intensely. An A game is a hydration drink. It has eight essential vitamins. It has all of the electrolytes, the entire suite of B vitamins. Before you freak out and read that it has 21 grams of sugar, which it does, the sugar is coming from natural cane sugar and honey, my preferred mechanisms for getting glucose into the blood during intense exercise.

Starting point is 00:21:25 It also has natural flavors, but these natural flavors don't come from bacterial fermentation. They actually come from real citrus fruits, and the color is from vegetable juice, not artificial dyes. So next time you're looking for a great hydration drink and you're exercising intensely, a game is your choice. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human podcast. You know, for me, you know, it was more like a hurrah, you know, get in there, a hard thing to do, you know, that kind of thing. why, you know, she'd see me do that. And she's like, I'm not doing that. I don't need any of that stuff. So until, you know, about a year ago, she ended up getting like a health coach. And one of the things that she particularly was challenged with was she had high cortisol. And she tended to maybe just say mismanaged stress in that sense, right? And so because of the high cortisol, because of the high stress, when more stress would come on, situations, it'd be very high stressful. And she'd have a hard time managing that. And so one of the recommendations that her coach, you know, gave to her was, hey, have you considered cold plunging? She's like, well, funny enough, you know, I've got access to one.

Starting point is 00:22:27 So she started to cold plunge regularly, and there was an absolute massive change in her behavior. And I think the reason why, which I've actually come to learn a lot more about this, even just being in the space, is yes, it's one of those hard things to do, which is probably one of my favorite benefits from it. People talk about the science and the benefits and the mental and the inflammation and all those things, which are great things. but for me, it's very difficult to do, and I do it every single morning.

Starting point is 00:22:51 And so doing that very hard thing in the morning is just, there's nothing else. It sets me up for my day. And that doesn't get talked about enough because there's really something to be said about doing difficult things, like you said, kind of pursuing the discomfort to where then when stuff comes out to you, you just feel like you got it. Yeah, and doing them early, doing the difficult things early. Doing the difficult things early. Morning is hard, your day will be easy.

Starting point is 00:23:13 Exactly. And so to go deeper into that, though, but one of the things that I found, very interesting was, and I didn't really learn about this really until this past year or two, is, you know, when you go into a coal plunge, everyone talks about it. I think even one of your listeners might have asked a question about this. You know, hey, it's, it's so hard to get past that first 30, 60 seconds, that shock. I want to get out. I want to get out. And when you experience this, you know, we see a lot of first time cold plungers come in and they want to just get jumping and jump out. And when you jump into a cold plunge, as you know, you go into a fight or flight

Starting point is 00:23:43 response state. Yeah. You go into that sympathetic state where you forget to breathe. You forget to breathe and you're pretty much, you know, your body is thinking, okay, I need to kick in because I'm going to die, right? Your brain knows you're just in a cold punch, but your body is telling you something is off. And so doing that, and then we know that if you get past that 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90 seconds, marker, it's different for everybody and you get on to that kind of parasympathetic state where your heart rate comes down, you start to find calm, you start to find peace, you start to find that balance again. And then all of a sudden, everything's okay. You can actually stay in that cold punch at that point for probably as long as you want,

Starting point is 00:24:19 really. We don't recommend anything past a couple minutes, but it's a lot easier at that point. And what I learned was that there's actually a lot of data behind that transition of going from sympathetic to parasympathetic and actually training the nervous system to combat and activate in the normal world. And so for my wife, I've seen that transformation where you know, those same situations will come up or those challenging things can come up. up and it can be very stressful, but it's not that same level of stress or that same reactivity that's there because you've trained the mind, you've trained the nervous system that, hey, stress is coming, it's coming, I'm gonna go through it, I know I'm going through it. Now on the

Starting point is 00:24:58 back end of this, I know there's kind of a smooth sailing coming. And I think that's a very powerful thing because there's a lot of people who deal with high stress, high cortisol, that's a very challenging thing. Totally agree with you. There's actually something fascinating, well-documented in the literature. It's called the mammalian dive reflex. And the mammalian dive reflex is, is germane to all mammals. And when mammals dive, whales, dolphins, when they actually dive in the ocean as the water temperature cools

Starting point is 00:25:23 and it's passing over their face, it shifts them from a sympathetic to a parasympathetic state. It actually reduces their heart rate, calms them down. So you can actually capture this benefit by putting your face in the water when you first get in, either dunking or splashing cold water on your face

Starting point is 00:25:39 will activate the mammalian dive reflex and actually make the cold plunge easier. Yeah. it's well documented in the literature. You can look up the mammalian dive reflex. It's a well-known reflex that's germane to all mammals. So that's essentially what's happening there. And if I can, if I can, we are more less scientific saying.

Starting point is 00:25:59 Oh, sorry. Of everything you just explained is we have a saying it's called, I don't count if you don't dunk. Oh, okay. That's our less scientific way of saying. You don't count if you don't do the mammalian dive reflex. Yeah, exactly. Actually, shout out to Andrew.

Starting point is 00:26:15 because he was the first one that said, I was like, hmm, that sounds a little. I started looking it up. I was like, all right, Andrew, yeah. He's barely wrong, so he would write again. But so talk a little bit about time temperature, because that's the big one. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:31 Is like, should it be 35 degrees and I do 15 minutes? It would be, you know, 60 degrees and I'd do five minutes. You know, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, I mean, we've heard it from yourself and from the research we've done. there's no studies that say the colder, the better. Right. So we always recommend people when they're starting,

Starting point is 00:26:49 you know, the machine goes down at 37 degrees Fahrenheit. Right. I myself rarely cold punch at 37 degrees. That's brutal, man. Unless I'm having a rough day and I want to do something extremely extreme, we do it, we generally recommend around 48 to 55 degrees.

Starting point is 00:27:03 Perfect. And we tell everybody start at one or two minutes and get your body used to it. Don't go in there at 37 degrees and try to do it for five minutes. You know, we have people reach out to us that say, oh, I did it for 10 minutes yesterday at 40 degrees, what should I do next? And we're like, actually, you can get the full benefits just doing 10 to 14 minutes a week.

Starting point is 00:27:22 That's very true. Breaking it, you know, breaking it down at two or three minutes a day, even just four to five days a week. So, you know, if people don't want to do a cold plunge at first, start off with a cold shower, start doing it for 30 seconds, 60 seconds, get it obviously as cold as it possibly can. I think cold showers, in my opinion, are actually harder than a cold plunge. Yeah. Because part of your body's wondering what's going on, the other half. I don't wonder what's going on. It's like, yeah, it's like being in line of the torture.

Starting point is 00:27:48 You know your necks. You see it coming. I hate not having a cold punch because then I feel obligated to do with my cold shower. And I'm like, this is miserable. I would rather just be sitting all the way up to my neck in a cold plunge. But that's kind of the quick breakdown that we explain to everybody. I mean, a lot of our customers always ask for our advice. And we always say, like, if you want to go down at 37 in a few months and you feel like

Starting point is 00:28:06 you can handle it, where the footies for your feet, you know, to keep your feet warm at least. Yeah. But yeah, we always suggest people. Man, it's the same thing. 48 to 50 to 55 degrees, three minutes minimum, six minutes maximum, get all the benefits. I mean, of all the literature and I've exhaustively gone

Starting point is 00:28:22 through the literature. And, you know, if you think about it, when you get a peripheral vaso-constriction and you constrict, if you actually keep reducing the temperature, it doesn't constrict any harder, right? It doesn't like that. It's not, once you make a fist

Starting point is 00:28:34 as tight as you can make it, if you keep putting it in colder water, you're not going to make a tighter fist, right? So you're not going to increase their peripheral vaso-constriction. What I found fascinating, which, not to completely jump topics, but the more I study the human body,

Starting point is 00:28:45 the more I believe in God. Because when you look at the intelligence, the architecture of what happens, if you really break this down, you get into a cold punch, you get this peripheral vaso-constriction. But it vaso-constricts in a very specific physiologic pattern. It shuttles blood.

Starting point is 00:29:03 Shuttles the blood first to the brain. That's the first organ to receive the blood right up through the carotid arteries. Then it shuttles the blood, to the heart and then out to the lungs and then everything else. And if you think about the intelligence of that, you know, let's say you're walking on the ice and you're by yourself, you break through the ice, now you're in 38 degree water. You're alone.

Starting point is 00:29:25 You have no resources. What is the body going to do in that situation? I mean, it has no external resources. Listen, there's what I share on this podcast and then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here, but my My VIP community, that's where the real magic happens. Picture this. You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog,

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Starting point is 00:30:41 forward slash VIP and step into your ultimate potential. Now, let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. So first thing, preserve the brain. Second, heart, third, lungs. And if you think about that sequence, I mean, if this goes out, nothing else matters. This stops me, nothing else matters. And then these are not working.

Starting point is 00:31:01 But you can tolerate those in that sequence, right? And then, you know, after it does that, it starts this entire physiologic cascade to prepare you to best get out of that situation. Release of cold shock proteins. I think one of the most fascinating areas of clinical research now is in cold shock proteins. We're just scratching the surface of these fascinating proteins

Starting point is 00:31:26 that are locked up in the liver. There's a few of them, Lin 28A and Lin 28B that are being investigated for improving insulin sensitivity and decreasing insulin resistance, scouring the blood of free radical oxidation. So if you think about that and then, you know, releasing norepinephrine, say it. That's norepherin. Don't ask how many times I've tried to learn that word.

Starting point is 00:31:53 He was practicing it before the podcast. We're like out of the screen right here, like N-R-N-O-R-E-E-ephinephrine. I was on Google. I was going to say it to me while I was pacing in the hallway. I was like, come on, Sam. I told him they said the porcupine one, it started with an end. you know that one, there you go. Where do?

Starting point is 00:32:12 But if you think about it, what does that do? Widenes your field of vision, makes your hearing more acute, makes you more alert, focused, concentrated, increases your short-term processing speed. Why? Because you've got to survey the environment around. You've got to critically be able to think. And to me, it's even understanding the physiologic mechanisms,

Starting point is 00:32:31 it's an eerie form of meditation because I'm one of those folks, and you with an ADHD background, probably fall in the same category, category that has a very difficult time quieting my mind. Yes. Like to just sit, be still. Like my wife and I play the silent game, I last 30 seconds.

Starting point is 00:32:50 Like sage could go three days. Right. Right. But I'm like, I need to say something, you know. And I've tried guided meditation, but dude, when you're in a cold plunge, yes, your mind is not, you're not... Nowhere else.

Starting point is 00:33:04 Did I get everything on my grocery list? I wonder if I returned that email. No. You're not thinking about your Instagram. grandpa, you're like highly present. Yes. And so good. And I think that, you know, that aspect of getting out and just being so clear, you know,

Starting point is 00:33:21 it's like what an amazing way to start your day. Yes. And the fact that we can tap into this every day, God gives us an endless amount of this resource. And I always tell people, look, we're trying to cold shock the body, not cold, adapt the body. Very important. And that's why I say not hanging out and cold. cold water forever is not a great idea. In fact, when I, I was a mortality researcher for years

Starting point is 00:33:44 and when I started in the mortality space, when I was born in 1970, Eskimos had the shortest life expectancy of any race. Really? They lived at the poles, very little sunlight, very little vitamin D3. Wow.

Starting point is 00:34:00 Very high fat with high carbohydrate diet. And they were called adaptive. So they were learning, their body was adapting to the cold. So it was adding out of post layers. It was increasing the amount of visceral and body fat. So this is one of those tools that you throw in the arsenal. You know, you use it for its advantages and don't overuse it and don't abuse it. Exactly. And it can just really be integral part of your day. So time, you know, temperature are big ones. And so what about people that have, you know, renounds or people with heart conditions.

Starting point is 00:34:42 There was one question in here. There was a very specific questions he was asking about. We'll get to that in the VIP community. Okay. But do you find, are you finding a wider adoption of cold plunge outside of like the hardcore crossfare, like, you know, go rocker, you know, high rocks racer. I get that community. Of course, yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:05 They were the first adopters. We called them early adopters. I feel like a lot of people in their midlife crisis that are trying to turn their life around. Honestly, just trying to live healthier, want to live longer. People that are working a normal nine to five corporate job or people that, you know, are looking for that.

Starting point is 00:35:20 We actually did cold plunge challenge. Yeah. On the ultimate human hands of people, you guys gave away a cold punch. And the family that won, we gave it to them because they brought the whole family over it. Oh, that's incredible. I think they used, remember those little plastic

Starting point is 00:35:35 like pools that you got in as a kid. They were like, oh, yeah. It was like a kitty pool. Baby pool, yeah. So they filled it full heist and the entire family got in. That's incredible.

Starting point is 00:35:46 Like the kids, the uncles, the, her parents, they looked like they were easily in their late 70s. Wow. And I was like, you guys. They deserve it. Wow.

Starting point is 00:35:56 That's incredible. My nieces do it. That's awesome. They're seven and ten. So good. So I think it's becoming a really cool way to even build community, you know.

Starting point is 00:36:07 Yes. Like here in Miami, I love this coffee and chill. Yes. You know, where you're, you walk into these parties and you would think, if you didn't know any different, that it was like any other South Beach rager. Yep. You know, DJ.

Starting point is 00:36:22 Yeah, DJ, party, crazy people. Like, you know, but it's like safe. Everyone's sober. Everyone's networking. Yeah, yeah, yep. And I love seeing that trend. I mean, because people are realizing, man, there's so many ways to feel really good

Starting point is 00:36:34 without drugs and alcohol. Yes. And the community side is one of our favorite things about this business. Yes. The community side is incredible. Coffee and chill specifically, you know, we've partnered with them. And that's really been a part of that, a way that we've been able to really get involved with the community, you know, outside of obviously selling the products.

Starting point is 00:36:49 But, you know, we're now in Miami, Austin, L.A., New York, San Diego, all over the place. And, you know, so if you've talking about access and accessibility for any of those markets, definitely go check out a coffee and chill, especially if you don't, you know, have a place to put one of our products or the money or whatever it is, you can go there for 20, 30 bucks and have a great time meet great people and go to get started in cold plunging. Also, fantastic way to just do a first cold punch. Because there's nothing like getting into the water. Well, you have the peer pressure, right?

Starting point is 00:37:18 Yeah, you got like six, seven, eight people. You're doing there's a bunch of hot chicks standing around. You're like, I'm getting in here. Oh, this is great. I love this. Try to be all stoic looking and everything. No, but it's incredible for that part of it. We love being a part of those communities.

Starting point is 00:37:32 And honestly, honestly, a lot of those times. types of communities are growing all over the place. I mean, we sell, you know, a product to those communities, the party plunge, and those products go all over the country. I mean, I would probably say any given weekend there's got to be at least 10 or 20 these events happening across the country all over the place. I'm so crazy to hear that, man. None of them are involved with alcohol. It's all just coffee, cold plunges, health and wellness stuff. And they're selling out almost all of them. Yeah. Yeah. Another thing to touch on, though, because I just want to say earlier, you mentioned, you know, access and, you know, we're a big component of just get started,

Starting point is 00:38:02 right if it's a cold shower or you want to have a DIY setup or if you don't want to have anything at your house go to a gym you know we we as our company we're in over 200 i think locations now we just hit 200 um and so whether it's a cold life plunger going to or another you know whatever go find any gym that's carrying this stuff but gyms and wellness centers and clinics and yoga studios and contrast therapy places i mean these places are popping off like they never have before i guarantee you for all the listeners if you go to google right now and type in cold plunge near me there's probably one pretty That's pretty close to you. You know, and you can usually go to a free trial.

Starting point is 00:38:35 Yeah, free trial or it's low cost, you know, to go out there and try. Yeah, man, I tell people, look, if you got a bathtub, just take Tupperware containers, put them in your freezer, freeze them, take the big blocks size, throw them in your tub. You'll, you know, sometimes those will last two, three days even. Yeah, yeah, they will, yeah. It's a good way to, you know, just get yourself into it before, you know, you bite the bullet and decide to commit to it. And I think once people commit and it becomes a regular part of their life, then they're,

Starting point is 00:39:00 it means you like Dana Light and all, when they travel, they travel, they They ship the cold plunge. Walberg is the same way. Crazy. I guess we can disclose it. He's a now. We can now disclose that. Okay.

Starting point is 00:39:09 Welcome, Mr. Mark Wahlberg to the cold life. Yeah, I remember when he sent me, I sent him out, well, we sent him out one, and then he sent me back to the video. He's like, dude, I love this thing.

Starting point is 00:39:22 I'll tell you what, man. There is, there is probably at the search far and wide to try to find somebody who would beat the consistency of Mr. Walberg. A.m. Club, man. Every day at 4 o'clock in the morning, before the sun is up, that man is inside of a cold plunge, which is extreme dedication. Before he arrives to a new city, he makes sure he has one waiting for him the next day.

Starting point is 00:39:45 He doesn't miss a day. Yeah. I send him videos sometimes and, like, mess with him in the mornings because, like, if I'm in a different time zone and I know that maybe I beat him up, like, you know, like, there's no, I'm not in the gym for you. Sorry, Mark. And, yeah, so the other day, I'm in my, I'm in my, I'm in my, Cole, I mean, in my hyperbaric chamber,

Starting point is 00:40:04 I'm actually, bro, and I sent him a video. I'm like, get out of bed, you know, what did you do this morning? You lazy bum, and he texts me back, and he's like, just got off my knees from thanking God for everything. I'm grateful for it. Oh, I'm like, all right, you win, dude, you win.

Starting point is 00:40:19 You got it. I'm just in here in my hyperbaric chamber. I thought I was cool. Exactly. So these, you see now, you know, before I think like you were talking about, this was a trend, fad, sort of gimmicky, if you will. It was kind of like a cool thing.

Starting point is 00:40:35 It was almost like a TikTok challenge. What was the big challenge that went around where everybody was the ice bucket challenge? That was for ALS. ALS, yeah. And I think that really caught on, which was really cool. I did the ice bucket challenge. And but it's not a gimmick. No.

Starting point is 00:40:50 Right? And I think that, you know, when you look at things that have been around for sustained periods of time, like I say this all the time about medicine, you know, when you look at acupuncture, for example. It's been around for 5,000 years. Why do you think it's lasted 5,000 years? Because it works, right? So, okay, maybe we don't have the peer-reviewed, randomized clinical trial that we have for X or Y or Z,

Starting point is 00:41:10 but these people have been doing the same thing and the same points with the same results for 5,000 years. I feel like cold-punging cold exposure is one of those things that is going to still be mainstream 5,000 years for now. Yes. Because I find that it works. And in your experience, when people get into this game,

Starting point is 00:41:32 what kind of feedback? Are you getting feedback like, this is too much for me, I'm sending this thing back, or this is changing. This is probably the easiest way to explain it in a nutshell. You know, we have sold thousands of units,

Starting point is 00:41:48 and I will say this very truthfully and candidly on both of salmon I's hands. We can count the amount of returns that we've had inside of our entire. of those is simply because it didn't fit through their door. And honestly, probably 80% of those because they didn't fit on their balcony or something crazy. So very, very, very

Starting point is 00:42:07 dedicated customers and community. I mean, once you go into this thing, you're not going back. You're not going to get started in cold plunging and make this a daily party of your routine or a weekly part of your routine or whatever it may be because it's just, it's like you said, it works. You know, and so when you start doing yourself, you feel proud, you did something hard.

Starting point is 00:42:24 And we hear it all the time. People end up buying one for their second home. because they hate not having it at their vacation. Or for their friend or for their cousin or for their wife or for somebody like, hey, I need to get this person cold plunging. You know, they're going through this depressive state or they're going through this health thing or whatever it is. Like, you know, they'll call us, can you get them as fast as possible?

Starting point is 00:42:42 You know, ship it to them tomorrow kind of thing. Is that wild that, you know, so, you know, we define depression in this country as an inadequate supply of serotonin. You know, we've always said in the addiction space when I was in the mortality space that the absence of dopamine was the presence of addiction. You know, addicts weren't really seeking high.

Starting point is 00:43:01 They were seeking normalcy, right? They didn't wake up one day and go, I wouldn't get really banged up. I woke up one day and said, I want to feel normal. It's like you with Adderall, right? Your first time taking Adderall, you weren't like, man, I just want to get high.

Starting point is 00:43:14 I just want that buzz. I want that, you know, amphetamine hammer. You're trying to feel normal. Yeah, I want to be able to function. You're bouncing around all over the place and you just wanted to feel normal. And I think that's where most people begin their journey addiction is the search for normalcy.

Starting point is 00:43:30 And I think what this gives people is a way to do that with a lot of beneficial consequences instead of having that cliff like kind of right behind you that, you're running from a low, not running towards that, which I commend you a lot because getting off Adderall and amphetamines system is one of the most difficult because, again, not because it makes you feel banged up, it's because without it, you don't feel normal. I was a slob. Yeah. I couldn't get anything done.

Starting point is 00:43:59 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so how was that struggle for you and do you, do you ever think about? Oh, no. I think it's been just about four years now that I haven't taken one. Yeah. Never going back. The side effects are not worth it either. The best part about the cold plunges is there's no crash.

Starting point is 00:44:17 You know, four to six hours at minimum, I feel phenomenal. I'm focused. I have attention compared to taking medication like Adderall or Vivance. I was on both of them. Yeah. And your girlfriend's going, Wednesday asshole coming.

Starting point is 00:44:30 It's probably about two hours away right now. No, literally. And I'd be doing too much at once. Or, you know, I'd be dusting my fan instead of doing something productive. I would just see it had me. It had me all over the place. You know, I'd be cleaning my shoes.

Starting point is 00:44:41 I didn't even need me to be cleaned. But I wasn't doing something actually productive. I need to get done. Yeah. And it's crazy over the last few years now that I've been off Adderall and I love sharing my story. A lot of people are currently started to identify

Starting point is 00:44:54 that there's more cons than pros to taking that type of medication. Yeah. And in particular, too, I was a hothead. So it was affecting me in business relationships, my family, and it was a struggle. But that was the biggest problem was I would try to get off of it when I didn't have another solution to fall on. So I would immediately after two days, if I couldn't get any from the pharmacy, I'd be contacting people, hey, can I get an Adderall? Just to get by for a day or two until I got my subscription, my refill. and a lot of people are like that and it's hard to admit it

Starting point is 00:45:26 because it's an addiction that you don't want to admit that weakness. So when I found the cold therapy being able to substitute that, I was like, this is phenomenal because even if I don't have a cold plunge, I can do a cold shower. And sometimes I was doing like two cold showers a day

Starting point is 00:45:43 until I had a cold plunge in my place just to get by. And then when you live somewhere where it's cold, you know, a lot of our customers they are on the fence, they don't want to spend the money yet. It's like earn it for yourself. earn that reward of a cold life, cold punch, where do you live? You're in Minnesota. You got a hot tub.

Starting point is 00:45:57 Don't turn the hot tub on. Use that as your cold punch. Yeah. You already got it. You already got the body of water. Yeah. Sometimes up there the water comes out nice and cold in the winter too. Exactly. Exactly. So we always suggest that the people too. Like we're from Atlanta, the Chattahoochee River is like 40 degrees all year around. Oh, is it really? Yeah, all year round. So when I was in high school, you know, we'd go there and, you know, do stuff, stupid stuff and maybe get in the water for like 30 seconds to swim across the river. little did I know what benefits I had in there. And back then, you might see, like, one guy that I thought was crazy, like, laying in the cold water, and I'm wondering what he's doing. But now any natural body of water you go to, especially in the wintertime, it's so

Starting point is 00:46:35 normal now. Yeah. And now there's all these movements from the communities to the polar plunges people are doing. In Austin, Texas, they have that area that's like a really cold body of water that people go to all the time. Yeah. And it's very fascinating, seeing how normalized it's becoming. What are some of the customer feedback stories, testimonials that come in to you guys that you find to be really, I mean, getting off Adderall?

Starting point is 00:47:00 You got to share one of the most recent ones. There's so many good ones. I wish we had more time to share them all. But there's one that sticks out to me. We have a customer who is battling stage four cancer. And I had the opportunity to actually talk to himself. there was something up with his delivery or something so somehow it got brought up to me and so I just talking to the customer how'd you find us what's going on you know what's your story

Starting point is 00:47:28 and come to find out he's battling stage four cancer and you know I'm not going to sit here and say cold plunges cures cancer because he's certainly still still going through that but to me especially for the reason why I do the cold plans which is like it's a hard thing to do it's the mental benefits it's that clarity I get coming out of it but for me I get that win for the day That's when I do that cold plunge. I'm checked off. I got my win. I feel very great about myself.

Starting point is 00:47:52 For me, in the days where I'm like slack in or I don't want to do it or I get up into that cold water, this was probably a few months ago now. I talked to that customer and it is still, it is the first thing that comes to mind thinking there is a man that's battling stage four cancer who struggles to get out of bed every single morning, who has aches and pains and is throwing up and is doing fear. So going through the worst of worst and the fear that it's all about to come over. And that man is getting in to a cold plunge every single day. And yeah, it's just, it's insanely inspiring to see customers that have that level of commitment.

Starting point is 00:48:32 And a lot of our customers. And veterans with PTSD, all kinds of stuff. It's crazy. We hear from veterans that are in their 60s that are like, this is completely calmed me down, hangs with help with my anxiousness and just in general helps me get by on days that used to be challenging and it's been like one after one after one um and for me i've connected with multiple people and there are 50s or 60s that are my my dad's age and they're all like you know your story about adderall is remarkable i hate to admit it but i'm i drink like eight coffees a day um i don't want to

Starting point is 00:49:07 take a medication but i drink a ton of caffeine i do this i do this i'm a slug and now that i've invested into a cold life cold funds are like i'm performing better than ever i feel younger yeah um and the confidence i even have as a man you know a lot of people lack you know self confidence they're like it's it's elevated my own confidence within myself because i used to be weak and i you know i needed to find something to overcome that yeah yeah feeling yeah and as a man you want to feel you know like an alpha man yeah and a lot of guys can't admit it feel alpha when you get out not so much when you get Yeah, but you don't feel like an alpha man to get in there. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:41 Especially when we got an audience, like, you know, we're the cold punch founders. Like, we have a game face on. You got to remain calm. You're like, yeah. Sit here, see, and it's not that bad. You just got to breathe. You got to breathe. You know, you're like, stop dying.

Starting point is 00:49:52 So where do you guys fall in the contrast therapy? You know, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of, you know, gyms and wellness and recovery centers that are now using the contrast therapy. what have you found works, what have you found doesn't work, where do you find in the, in the, son of Colplands? Contrast has always been an interesting one because I think it's quite, it's quite personal and different in the sense that Copeland, to me, at least, has a relatively specific outcome you're trying to achieve, right? For me, it's the mental stuff. It's the hard thing. For some others, it's recovery coming from the gym. For some others, it's inflammation, right? Everyone I feel like

Starting point is 00:50:30 kind of has their main reason why they're getting into the Cold Plains. But for contrast, to me, Contrast is almost more therapeutic, you know, than a recovery aspect of it. You know, you're going from, you know, you could probably explain the science behind the constricted blood vessels and then them opening up very quickly. And so you're doing that back and forth, back and forth. For me personally, on my own journey, I actually fell in love with contrast therapy. My wife and I, once a year are a big thing as we would go to Asheville. There's a place there called the Omnigrove Park Inn. And it's like a big old, you know, kind of castle thing.

Starting point is 00:51:07 In Nashville, North Carolina. Yeah, that's a beautiful area. It's a gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous hotel. And it's in the mountains, and it's beautiful. And they have a spa that's actually in, like, the basement. And then it looks out of the mountains. And it's just beautiful. But they have these areas in this area, it's a cold plunge, it's a hot tub.

Starting point is 00:51:23 It's a steam room, and it's a sauna. And actually, right during COVID, when COVID was all happening, we got a chance to go up there. And I didn't know if I had COVID, I was sick, whatever. And we were there. And I just started feeling like awful. I mean, horrible. And I was taking, you know, anything I could. It was going online, taking all the Z-packs and whatever I could get my hands on.

Starting point is 00:51:43 I was taking. Couldn't feel better. It was just the worst couple days. Go and do contrast therapy for like two and a half hours. And I came out of there and I literally felt like an absolute new person. Like I felt like better than I did before. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing ever. Why is nobody talking about this more often kind of thing?

Starting point is 00:52:02 Yeah. Yeah. And that really let me up. So for me, I love contrast therapy. I don't think it for me is something that I recommend doing daily because it's one of those therapeutic things. To me, I kind of put it in like the massage category in that sense and my own personal view. However, if you are doing it daily or you're doing it more often, the one thing I will say is that I do highly recommend you end on cold. You don't want to end on cold. Yes. I agree with that. Guys, this has been amazing. I've got a whole list of questions for you from my VIP community. So I have a special. community that this is my community I've been building for the last few years called the VIP community so I always spend private time with them so we're going to go into a little private room now they've got a bunch of questions for you guys for the rest of you guys if you're interested in joining the the ultimate human VIP community can go over to the ultimate human dot com forward slash VIP sign up you get private podcast you get one-on-one private coaching with me when we do it in a group setting we have a course in

Starting point is 00:52:57 there called becoming the ultimate human version of yourself you meet great guys like Kyle and Sam. Until next time, that's just science.

The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka - 201. Sam Maxwell & Kyle Ponton: Cold Plunging Science & Health Benefits + How You Can Start!

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