The Uneducated PT Podcast - #41 Edin Sehovic - EvidenceNutrition

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

In this episode of the Uneducated PT Podcast we speak to Evidence based nutrionist Edin Sehovic. Expect to learn about the highs and lows of playing tennis at a high level, training as a type 1 diabetic, the misinformation that comes out about nutrition advice. Some of the harmful trends we see online and much more. 

Hello and welcome to the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carlo Rourke. The goal of this podcast is to bring on interest and knowledgeable people from all walks of life, learn a little something from each conversation and for you, the listener, just learn something from each episode. So don't forget to subscribe to the channel, press the box below, show some support and I'll see you on the next episode. Okay, before we get into it, can you just tell the listeners a little bit about your profession and how you got into it?

So I am a sport nutritionist, I suppose, by trade, although that doesn't really mean anything on social media anymore, but I have a degree in a Bachelor of Science and Dietetics and Nutrition. And then I also have a postgraduate diploma with the IOC in sport nutrition. So I completed that a few years back. And I'm constantly reading daily on nutrition. How I got into that, I got diagnosed with diabetes when I was 14, type 1 diabetes. And, you know, you lose a lot of weight.

I was weighing, I was already quite a skinny kid, about 110 pounds, 120 pounds in the ninth grade at that time. And then, you know, I started hitting like 85 pounds. I'm in the bathroom drinking water, then going to urinate, then drinking water, and then back and forth. And my mom was like, all right, something's wrong here. So kind of since that moment, I realized there is a connection between nutrition and how you feel or nutrition and how you can operate on a tennis court specifically because I was also playing tennis at the time. I mean, I still play tennis, but I was training quite a bit for the viewers for context. And so that was kind of my big, aha, all right, well, let's look a little deeper into this. So there's a few other, you know, events that transpired that are kind of like cardinal moments

that really changed the direction in which I went in terms of how I make content and why I make content. but that in a nutshell is why I'm in the field of nutrition at all. And I, you know, people always ask me and it happened quite a bit. I went back home to visit my folks this past week. And, you know, all my friends are kind of like, they're like, oh, like, what would you do if not nutrition? I'm like, I have no idea because that would mean I don't have diabetes. So, so I, you know, it's a lot of what if, what if, but I have no idea, man.

I just really, I'm really intrigued by it. And I, pseudoscience is something that is. is also of particular interest to me. And it's a, it's one that my parents fell victim to through me and my diabetes. So it's a big reason of why we, and why I make videos about it to try to educate my past, my parents in the past, you know?

Yeah, because when I first came across you, the first thing that I was exposed to was, oh, this person breaks down pseudoscience, and all the misconceptions around nutrition. And then when I started to dig a little bit deeper, then I realized that, oh, you have a big past in sports and then find out that you're a type of one diabetic. So I suppose I want to,

there are the kind of three main things that I want to go in on with you. But I suppose probably let's start with sport because I'd say that's probably what started off this journey for you. So tell me a little bit about your tennis career. So I played, I guess, lower level professional tennis. I've never anybody, never anybody on like a, you know, screen anywhere, but ITF level tennis. So, you know, you're traveling a lot. I lived in Spain at the time.

And then you're traveling from tournament to tournament week to week, you know, France, Spain, wherever you can play a tournament, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, like I was playing tournaments. Just whatever was the cheapest way to make ends meet within that sport. I mean, anybody that's watching this that is a, and I understand, you've got quite an athletic following. So anybody that's watching this that is an athlete knows what it's like to have to pay for training, to have to pay for, in my case, rackets, balls, court time, whatever else, training, coach, travel expenses, et cetera. You know, you're trying to just make the most tournament appearances so that you have the highest chance to make some of that money back. And, you know, I did that until I was about 19.

And then at 19, you know, I didn't come from money. So my parents were saying like they helped me a lot. And, you know, I worked hard. I trained. I ran a, I did coaching a lot on the side and strung rackets when I was living in Spain. Like anything just to make ends meet just so that you can kind of keep the dream alive, that little kids dream alive to keep playing. But, you know, it kind of hit a point where I had a serious conversation with my folks.

And they said, well, what would you consider doing, you know, if you came home? And if you stop this, you know, this dream, you could always restart it later. That was kind of what we always joked about. I could always, you know, go back and try again later. And then I thought, well, you know what? I'd love to get into nutrition. And I always wanted to get into like kinesiology. But ironically, I had a kinesiologist through my clinic, my diabetes clinic as growing up.

And he always told me, do not go into kinesiology. He's like, do not, whatever you do, do not. And had my dietitian said the same thing, I didn't realize. it at the time, but the woman works two jobs. So I was like, oh my God, I didn't know it at the time. So I kind of blindly was like, I like nutrition. Like I like that. I like reading about it. And, you know, whenever they gave me, they would always, my dietitian and kinesiologists would always provide me to literature. So they kind of inadvertently started me off in like reading literature, which really helped with my degree. I have to say it is a skill to read

scientific literature in any capacity in any field. I can't read it specific to maybe all types of cancer. For example, I don't really understand the context. But with regards to nutrition and sport, I have a pretty solid understanding now and overall like general pop health. Thanks to, you know, them starting me off on the right path. Then I went to school and kind of continued from there. Tennis Dream died a little bit there, but I, you know, I got to play pretty solid level tennis and train with some pro players a lot of the time. And even still, I'll train with some pros from time to time. I have a few friends here who were pro or are, depending on what time of the year you ask him. Shout out, Braden.

I can always get him out for a good hit, I think. But, yeah, we, I've always got to play a high level, trained with some, especially with some WTA pros. And yes, they'll have some clients that are touring pros. So it works out. I don't get to hit with them in person as much because it's more of a nutrition context now. But yeah, whenever it's possible,

I like to get out and still slap some balls around. I remember what I don't know if it was a podcast or it was a show. And it was like five people. And they were debating what is the hardest sport to make it in. And I think tennis came out on top, just individually. Yeah. Would you, would you say it would be up there in terms of?

I mean, it's a very, it's a very unique challenge in that you have to balance. Obviously the, okay, go train like any sport, let's say you're going to train four hours a day, five hours a day. Let's just assume. So based on that assumption, okay, you're traveling those four or five hours. But now you're alone when you're competing. You're also alone in between. you and if you're not you're paying for someone to come with you which is a coach or someone which that was that was one of their compelling arguments so when they put it up against like rugby

and football and stuff like that it was you are alone for a lot of your journey which yeah and especially if you don't have the funds to you know have a good team behind you yeah probably makes it even more difficult yeah when you when you don't know where you're going to get the funding from. It's also hard to, you know, even now, I work with some athletes, of course, that of a wide varieties that are, you know, some have the funds, some don't, but the ones that don't, you know, you have to take that into consideration when you're trying to give them recommendations around like food, they kind of just get what they can get, you know what I mean? It's like trying to make the best out of the hotel breakfast that comes from the venue, right,

that they got a discount at because they booked it through the, you know what I mean? It's like trying to make the best out of the hotel breakfast that comes from the venue, right? That, that they got a discount at because they booked it through the tournament or whatever. So it is quite a challenge and that's an extra layer of stress. I don't know that I would say that, you know, tennis is the hardest sport, mainly because I haven't experienced 99% of sports. It's always going to be subjective, isn't it? Yeah, it's a super subjective argument. I would definitely say it's, it's incredibly challenging. Like, the mental side, especially, like even now I look back at things that, you know, you kind of have a deja vu moment. You're like, man, I remember when I was in that moment, just like, I just couldn't, you know, get my feelings wrapped around how difficult something was.

And now I'm like, ah, it's, it's whatever. Like, I've experienced so many more hardships since. But it's just being in that moment, like having all of these, like, layered, difficult, I don't know, feelings. You're just, you're going through something that you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself. Other people are extrinsically adding pressure as well. You know, you're, and then on top of that, it's. financial and you know if you get sick or if you get an injury or if you're training not well or like whether or not you're training well enough or the conditions and yeah there's a whole lot

of whole lot of factors but at the end of the day I think it's you know it's it's it is what it is right sport is just one of those things that's what makes it so amazing I think is when you do succeed at it and I don't think in Canada specifically I think on your side of the pond there are a lot more to tennis as a as a as a like successes in tennis whereas for us it's like people see someone and win a tournament they're like oh cool yeah that that that raffa guy won a tournament that that jockovic guy yeah he he won a match like i don't think you guys realize how freaking crazy it is what they're doing so um but but you know it's uh yeah i don't know to answer your question i don't know if it's the toughest but there's a lot of i mean rugby's tough

in its own regard for like just because you mentioned that earlier, but other sports that I would think of that are like insanely competitive and like challenging in their own way. I mean, golf is also individual. I'm trying to think of individual sports. Gymnastics. That's tough for like mental health as well. Speaking quite generally about mental health.

But yeah, um, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what I would even categorize is the top. There's a lot of sports I don't even understand like cricket. I don't really understand. So that one I hear that they play for multiple days sometimes. Yeah, yeah, that goes off for hours on end. Here's a question for them, because there will be a lot of kind of young people listening to this.

Sure. It might be tennis might be their sport, but it might be another sport. So if you were to do it all again, what would you do differently or do more of? Okay. I would focus less on aesthetic appearance. Why?

That's a big one. Because and as something you definitely know, functional muscle is not a look. And I say functional muscle. You don't need to look shredded in every sport. And I think, you know, Roger Fedder is a perfect example of that, actually, within the sport of tennis, is that if he ever took his shirt off, yeah, there's a couple whistles here and there, but like, he was not, you know, he's not getting any awards for his physique. So that would be for sure one of them because I cared a lot as a kid.

I was very insecure. I was very skinny. I weighed 140 pounds. I'll try to find a picture and send it to you. Did you fall into the trap? Because I know this, like my background. I've played tennis now just at an amateur level and I've played multiple sports. Football would probably be my main sport.

But did you fall into the trap of training like a bodybuilder for your specific sport? Very, very like for a very short period of time. Yeah. But I did. I did for sure. And, like, while I kind of train that way now, mainly because I enjoy it now, and my body doesn't need to be, you know,

playing good for tennis. I mean, it is still. I can still dust a lot of guys that talk shit on the internet for sure. But it's definitely one thing that I did fall guilty of. But it's a tough one, you know, because on one hand, I do think that training a certain way with regards to strength and hypertrophy are similar, but different, right? Strength, you want to train more strength.

You know, you've got to develop strength, whereas hypertrophy, you just got to get it to close to failure, right? So while that sounds similar and it could be the same, like you could train for strength and hypertrophy, you aren't always necessarily training for strength when you're training for hypertrophy, if that makes sense. so little nuances like that I probably

like I wouldn't always just train bicep curl so failure because that's absolutely useless for a tennis player Yeah quite yeah mobile

for sure So was the mistake for you then essentially even under eating for your performance in your sport to be quite lame

Definitely I definitely so having a massive of misunderstanding for, geez, under-eating for sure would be like a great umbrella term for it because I was constantly under-eating everything. So, you know, you'd yo-yo diet, like a classic general population person, but you're yo-yo dieting with just more food. So I would go try to stay super lean and I'd, you know, go three or four days in a row where I'm like barely eating anything

to, you know, maybe like some peanut butter on toast or whatever. And it turns out, you know, you're still getting like a thousand calories in. And then on the fourth day, you're like, oh, man, I got to fill my gut up with something. And then you just binge, binge eat, which honestly kind of open my door into binge eating, which I don't do so much anymore, but I used to a lot, which helped, you know, when I stopped playing tennis, it helped me put on size pretty quick. But it, all jokes aside, it was deaf. a big issue with regards to training.

Because imagine you're not getting enough protein in. You're not consistently feeding the body enough carbs. And while people can say what they want on the internet as an athlete, carbs are essential. So, and I'm not even going to say, oh, they're desirable. No, they're essential as an athlete. If you want to perform anywhere near the top level, you need to have carbs on hand.

Because nutrition might not win you a championship, but it will definitely lose you it. So, and that's something, you know, I still tell my clients all the time. Like, you won't. Yeah. Do you still see, because obviously you work with athletes, do you still see that common mistake happening? All the time, dude. All the time.

So it depends on the sport, because usually, like when I see a lot of tennis players, they're always looking at like, what's Novak doing? What's, you know, Djokovic? What's Raffa doing? What all these guys doing? And, you know, that's because Novak has been outspoken about being a glit. and free vegan, whatever. But when it comes to, like, distance sports, yeah, man.

It's like, oh, we got to eat high fat, all this, all that. And I'm like, well, like, take a second and realize that your body, you train your body, right? This is kind of the analogy that I use all the time. I go, you train your body. You train your muscles. Yes, okay, awesome. So you're going to train your muscles to work a certain way. Why don't you train them the way that they're going to, like, in the conditions that

they're going to perform it, i.e., if you're going to eat with, you know, low, carb okay well then that's the way you're going to perform right well no well that's i'm going to you know carb load this and that i go well why don't you just practice eating the carbs because especially when we look at like ultra endurance athletes or endurance athletes when i'm looking at helping them their biggest thing is like oh well and this kind of overlaps with tennis a little bit in the sense that you know what are they eating on changeovers on course right like they'll train with never eating anything and then all of a sudden just expect their body to be chill with consuming 60 grams of carbs per half hour. I'm like, you're crazy.

You're absolutely psychotic. You're going to vomit. And sure enough, they do. And then we talk to them about, okay, like, let's train your body to be able to consume this many carbohydrates or whatever it is, right? But in that training setting, that's very common. Like your body can adjust to more carbs, but it can't always be. in like the optimal range.

So we look at, you know, optimal range as being anywhere from like 30 to 90 plus, depending on the sport, grams per hour of exercise. But you can't expect someone to just come in like me or you, some Joe Schmo off the street to run a marathon and be able to consume 90 grams of carbs per hour. Like that's difficult to consume that many carbs. You're going to have some gastrointestinal problems and some serious. tummy aches for everyone at home. But yeah, so that's a serious consideration that we got to look at for sure.

You also touched on being type 1 diabetic and figuring that out at 14. Okay, just, we call this the uneducated PT podcast because I asked the obvious questions that uneducated like people like no. So can you even go into type 1 diabetes, what it is and everything else? Yeah, for sure. So type 1 diabetes, there's two that you hear about commonly, but there's more than that. There's also gestational diabetes, which occurs in pregnancy. But there's type 2 diabetes is a insulin sensitivity problem.

So that's not the one that I have. That's usually due to, again, genetics, lifestyle factors, etc., where your body produces insulin, but after a prolonged period of time, it doesn't actually utilize the insulin, that it produces well, to the point where it'll eventually stop producing insulin. Type 1, which is what I have, is an autoimmune disease. So it's slightly different. The end result is more or less the same, but it's different in the sense that my

body, my immune system attacked itself, attacked my pancreatic beta cells, and now I no longer produce insulin as a result of that, which again, it matters. because there's certain context where these things are, like the treatment methods would be different, but the end result in that you don't really digest sugars properly is more or less the same for the layman. It's just kind of where it started. So mine is an autoimmune disease.

The reason or the rationale for how it came up is idiopathic, meaning I don't really know why I got it. But again, genetic factors. I, you know, we've gone through my family history. It's not long because my family's medical history is not very complete. But it, yeah, we don't know where I could have gotten the genetics for it. Where's your second name from? My parents are Bosnian.

Yeah, that's definitely not a Canadian second name. Well, to be fair, Canada is a country of immigrants. So it's kind of like the US in that regard. But yeah, so I'm Bosnian by background. And this is the first podcast where I've ever actually or ever on the internet addressed where I'm from. So that's an exclusive. Does that relate to your love for tennis because they're big into their tennis in Bosnia, aren't they? They definitely are.

I actually started playing tennis because my dad was, you know, he moved to this country. and fuck he was doing anything he could forgive me for cursing there but he was doing anything he could to just you know survive in a new country new place and he was very good at tennis he also competed in the junior junior european olympics for javelin throw um mad random um and uh so super athletic guy and he played tennis really well so he was coaching just kind of in his spare time so when i was like three. I just started sitting at the door at four in the morning, not letting him leave until he would take me with him. And then eventually I just started playing tennis. Like, that's just how I did it. And I was that annoying kid that was talking all the time, which is

I'm still doing and bouncing a tennis ball at all times. Like I literally, hold on, I have a tennis racket. I literally have a tennis racket within reach of me at all times. This is actually from Adrian Manorino if you know who that guy is. He's a top ATP pro. Shout out Adrian. So this racket is strung at way too loose. Let's put it that way. But I've been having some fun trying it out.

So shout out to him for giving you that one. Sorry, I interrupted you there. So you were exposed to diabetes, the type 1 diabetes then at 14. Was the information there at the time? Did you just have any misconceptions about type 1 diabetes? Oh, dude. That could be a whole other podcast. No, I, uh, there was, there was nothing. Like we, we were, we, I, so I was diagnosed on October 16th, 2009. It was a Friday early morning, so like 2 a.m. When I woke up in the hospital, my mom was starting a brand new job for the first time that day. So she was gone. My dad was also gone because he had to go to work. And I was in the hospital in a like children's hospital. It was beautiful. You know, they were super kind to me. It was a great experience. But, um, I was left with the diabetes educators.

And so you like in they give you like a crash course on diabetes like hey take this or else you fucking die. I was like cool. Awesome. I guess that's a good option. So yeah, they were kind of teaching me how to use insulin and whatnot. But there were so many misconceptions. So even from that one day I remembered the diabetes educators at the time. It was the information that they had was like you're pretty much.

It was so again, October 16th, two weeks. before Halloween. So Halloween is pretty big here, and I'm a big sweet tooth guy, big candy guy. So they pretty much told me right then and there, like, yeah, you're probably not going to be able to celebrate Halloween anymore. I was like, oh, well, that fucking sucks. So, and that was, you know, my, again, I don't blame the diabetes educators because they're just going off what they had, right?

And while, you know, I put the two timelines together, maybe they're, you know, I'm maybe they're education was a little bit, you know, dated even for that era. But that's, you know, that's what they said. They're like, yeah, maybe just best you don't celebrate Halloween anymore. I was like, okay, cool. Yeah. Or like birthdays or like anything or eat anything sweet. So, but now it's definitely come a long way, especially what dietitians are talking about now.

And more and more of the ones in diabetes clinics know a little bit more about exercise in diabetes, too, which is important, but it's still a very big gap, I would say. So if there is, if there happens to be any dietitians that are listening to this, that might be diabetes educators, which I meet a lot of them all the time throughout, you know, my networking opportunities. I tell them all the time. Just take a little bit more of a keen interest in exercise and how that might improve the outcomes for patients because I know they know that, you know, exercise is important, but regurgitating. guidelines is not very relatable. And another thing is sometimes when you become an expert in a subject,

then you actually forget that other people don't know what you know. And then you start to actually continue to give out that advice because you just presume everybody knows what you know, which they don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm guilty of that as well. You know, in my echo chamber, like, one thing I'll say is that social media is a blessing and a curse. And one of the blessings is that, you know, you'll run into someone. And you're like, oh my God, like they don't know this. Take today, for example, I was talking about chlorine on a post, right?

Which is a very common misconception that's been going around in grocery stores. You know, chlorine is being sprayed on our food. Ah, it's so bad, blah, blah, blah. And then this guy started commenting like what, you know, calling me names and all sorts of things. And then I noticed in the, like, that he's like, I'm chlorine-free. All I use is Celtic salt and whatever. And I go, well, like, like, how are you going to in the same sentence say that you're chlorine free, you don't bathe in chlorine, you don't do anything chlorine, you take all these steps to avoid chlorine,

and then you still consume sodium chloride. How are you going to say that to me with like a straight face? And so, but again, you know, it all jokes aside, like people don't know. And that that's where I, I'm saying this as like a, you know, I don't want to come across as facetious or like a douchebag, but really, I take these opportunities and I really do try, and you can comment in whatever way you want on my content, but I try to educate people. I do, I'm very well aware that sometimes those people will not be receptive to what I have to say, but I'm trying to educate the person that's on the fence.

I'm not trying to educate the person that's in the video necessarily. Sometimes I do get across to the person in the video, which is great, but that's very rare. Very rare. Because it's not in their incentive to be proven wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And it's definitely not confirming their biases for the most part. Sometimes I do.

Sometimes people, you know, even a wrong clock is right twice a day. And that's also why I think podcasts are really good format to educated people because they don't feel like they're being spoken to. They're just like on the edge listening to a conversation. And it's a lot easier to have your mind changed if you feel like you're listening in. and then you've decided to change your mind rather than someone proving you wrong and you've been like, I fully agree.

I fully agree. I think a longer form, especially in an open setting where it's like a discussion. You feel like you're involved in the discussion. You're just a fly on the wall in the room, right? No, no judgment attached if you want to change your opinion or not.

So let's say there is someone listening here who has type 1 diabetes or has just recently been diagnosed. And also they might be, be an athlete. What what considerations do they have to take on board that other athletes wouldn't have to take on board? So they'd always have to have carbs on standby at all times because low blood sugar is very common, very possible. And they need to act quickly. Did you ever get rushed in for going hypo? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A few times I've had seizures in the past. Ironically,

the seizures never happened while I was on court. The seizures always happened after the fact. But You know, if you look at guys like Alexander Zverev is a tennis player now who has type 1 diabetes, he's only recently become publicly like open about it. Ty Domi's kid, Max Domi is a hockey player as well with type 1 diabetes. So testing is something that they have to frequently do. It becomes tougher. I try to run a half marathon this past, like in the year, this year. And the reason why I wanted to do that is because I really wanted to try a sport that I've like never done.

and to see what the experience is like. And that was the first time where I realized diabetes was severely limiting me from how much I could achieve. It's always limited me, but in tennis, I never really felt it because you have changeovers, take a bite of a banana, chug an entire gatorade. Yeah, you don't feel great, you know, the next three games because I'm filled with liquid, but I survived.

And, you know, that's all my brain would care about at the time. So testing all the time and, you know, needing to have carbs on standby is definitely a challenge for diabetics. And then if their blood sugar goes too high, then they have to urinate more frequently. So needing to take bathroom breaks if that's possible in their sport is quite challenging. So one thing I would always recommend if there is anyone that's, you know, a type 1 diabetic watching this right now is always do the minimum. as far as corrections, as far as, you know, well, yeah, corrections for blood sugars. Do the minimum, but do the maximum as far as observations. So test as often as possible, you know, be very cautious of what's happening with your blood sugar if you're super low or if you're about to go high.

The more information you have, the better, but don't be rushing to change something. I think that kind of goes anyway with like with your training. or your nutrition routine, you know, that can be taken any way as well, not just for type 1 diabetics, but when you overcompensate, it can be very detrimental to your performance. So that's something that for sure I look at when I'm talking to, you know, giving a little speech at a conference for type 1 diabetics or, you know, that kind of thing. It's really something that I want to get, you know, get more involved with as well. with more type 1 diabetics because it's something I wish I was told, you know, because we're told,

all right, yeah, 15 grams of carbs at, you know, X time when your blood sugar is low. And I'm like, well, what if my blood sugar is below 3.4? What if it's 3.2? And what if it's, because it's very hypersensitive to who you are and how sensitive your insulin sensitivity is and your glucose sensitivity. So I would always say the one thing is I've spent my entire life up until about two, three years ago, overcompensating in every way, whether too much insulin, too many carbs. I mean, there's never too many carbs, but you get what I mean for blood sugar purposes. So the one thing is like being more like hyper aware and acting less, being a little bit more patient and acting less.

That's also something I guess I would say to my past self to do differently because maybe I could have had a better result in the end. I loved your video on the French Open and I didn't realize how they actively discouraged. Yeah. That's, why do you think that is? Branding. It's strictly to do. So because it's a, the pharmaceutical companies that are, got to forget which one it was,

but one of the ones that he uses is a conflict of interest. So there's a conflict of interest with one of the, the major sponsors of the ATP. Obviously, it's speculation, but given their history of past brand deals, like, players can have their own separate endorsements from the ATP or WTA, in this case, ATP. So if you look in the past, Dominic team, he just announced his retirement. He was a Red Bull. He was one of the first Red Bull sponsored tennis players.

And he cracked open a can of Red Bull on course. port and they made them pour it out into an empty cup like into just like a like a plastic cup because they're like no we can't have the cameras pick that up and so and that was kind of like the first time i noticed it and then they did it to serena with gatorade she cracked open a gator she's sponsored by gatorade but the main tournament sponsor at that time power raid so you can't have the competing sponsor right so it it that's kind of like the only reason why it could be because Bayer or one of the ones one of the major pharmaceutical companies that he's there's like three major pharmaceutical companies that make diabetes products so the problem is

there's some parent company that owns something you know and they're not paying the ATP so so just for the listeners because I never even explained that can you just explain what essentially it was so yeah so uh in I made a YouTube video kind of explaining diabetes and Alexander's Varev and and and how he was, I believe it was with the French Open. And so the French Open is a tennis tournament where he has in the past shown that in Monte Carlo, he was not allowed to take injections on the court. They tell him he's not allowed, he's not allowed,

and he just took an injection on the court. He did it really quietly and silently, which I would have done too. I mean, kind of just pull out the pen. It's like this, and there's like a needle tip at the end and you just jammed it in. Because the difference could be, you know, with your medication, could be, it could be a big difference if you have to wait until you can go off court.

There's also limitations in tennis. You can only go off court. He would have had to take a medical timeout, which is honestly rubbish. So if he was to take a medical time out, he wouldn't be later allowed if he rolled his ankle or whatever. He wouldn't be allowed another medical time out. He would need to forfeit the match. So if he had an actual injury, he would be fucked just because he needed to take his insulin, which sucks. And so I completely understand.

He just took an injection in his leg super quick. The camera did not pick it up, but the umpire was like ridiculing him for it. And I think I showed that clip in the video. But yeah, the umpire was giving him a hard time for it. And he's like, you know, I know you're, it's just your epipen. It's your epipen. You can't be taking your epipen on court, which for those of you that don't know, an epipan is for allergies.

And if he's taking an epipen on court, I certainly hope he's just injecting it when needed because that's also a life-saving piece of technology, medical barma, you know? That's why I felt it so bizarre because like, all right, I understand brand them. I understand, okay, if you're sponsored by, you know, Coke Zero, you're drinking a can of Pepsi. But like, this is someone's health. Yeah, it's crazy. And I hope that they'll make a change on that. I don't know why it makes the sport look really bad.

It makes the sport look really poor. And also like if you look back at your own situation, like when there was not that much information or not that much awareness around it, for other kids being able to see something like that, if they end up being type 1 diabetic, like the more information and the more awareness around it, the better for everyone.

I don't think you understand how many times I've gotten a message from a mom or a kid who is recently diagnosed on, you know, I know people always make funny comments when I post videos of me playing tennis or something. That's the only reason why I do it. It's not because, like, yeah, I think I'm proud of how well I can play and I want to show that ability, but it's because in the video, you'll see this. for those of you that are not that are just listening not watching that's my CGM on my arm and it's an instant identifier for being diabetic so for a diabetic to see that and every time

I see a diabetic doing something you know I see the CGM I'm like hey that's that's a diabeto just like me so yeah I get a lot of messages from mums and and kids that are like wow well like you can you can still move like you can still work out you can do whatever and still, you know, people just don't know. So people don't know what they're capable of and they live in a perhaps a victim mindset or just because of lack of education. They don't know.

So it's important to still show people that, you know, you can be active despite whatever it is that's, you know, bringing you, battling you down. In my case, diabetes, you can live your life, quote, unquote, normally. It doesn't decrease your, you know, your shelf life. as a person that long. In some cases, of course, you can lose your life earlier as a result of diabetes,

but if it's well managed, there's no reason why it should. So yeah, it's a, it's very eye-opening for me. Like if I definitely, one of my big, like, moments in life that changed the way I viewed diabetes and fitness was Chris Jarvis, a friend of mine, he's an Olympian, and I got to meet him when I was like 16. And he was working with, he now has a foundation called I Challenge Diabetes, which I volunteered

with a lot in the past. And he is an Olympian. I'll repeat that, a rowing Olympian. He competed in the Athens Olympics and in one other one. What's the one after Athens? Struggling. But anyways, he did. did compete in the Olympics multiple times.

And I was like, yo, what the hell? Like, this guy is diabetic also. Like, this guy's also diabetic. Look at him doing the damn thing. And that was a big, like, moment for me where I went from, woe is me. I have diabetes. Oh, this sucks to like, well, let's, let's see if I can prove someone wrong.

You know? And while I don't know that I particularly proved anyone wrong, I also kind of did in the same sense. I didn't have any like crazy tennis accomplishments, so to speak. But yeah, I've still been able to maintain a pretty solid physique, been able to change the lives of hundreds of people, which is honestly way cooler to me than any tennis result could have been. But I still play some damn good tennis. I know. I've seen your service.

From someone, because I played when I was younger, and then I stopped and then I only recently got back in. into it during COVID and stuff like that and I was like, I forgot how good this sport is. Yeah, so it's lots of fun. I wanted to touch on trends real quickly which I know you're very good at debunking them but before I even ask you about the trends

that I want to ask about it actually just came across my mind there. What's your opinion on the trend that people monitor and their blood glucose when they don't have type 1 diabetes? Ah, you really want me to die here. Like, I go back and forth on this one. I think if it's, there was a time in the U.S.

where it was taking away from diabetics who couldn't gain access because these people were, right? There was a shortage. If there's a shortage, I think it's insensitive. Because really all you're going to gain is a little bit of information. Mind you, you live. literally can't do anything with that information. So you are, you're like, oh, I'm, I'm looking to see what foods make me spike and whatever. That's awesome. Yeah. You know, you'll find out that

pizza will give you a double spike. You'll find out that pasta might also do the same or not spike until super delayed later. And it'll show you timing for it. But how are you going to change that the next time you eat pasta or pizza? Oh, you won't. Right. Are you going to change your insulin delivery? Oh, right, you can't. Right? So I think people need to, you know, if they really have the funds and they really have the means and they're really curious because their health is in a weird spot, I'm all for them trying it once. Hang it up after that. There's no fucking point.

Because I always ask people, okay, like, what are you going to do? You ate that sandwich. You have a sandwich. you saw the spike. Okay. How are you going to adjust for that? If you can't answer that question, you have no reason to use that. And like if I were to ask you that question, right?

Like, what would you do differently if you saw a spike from something? Would you just avoid that food forever? No. Right. So, I mean, because you're a reasonable individual. But if a, you know, a hypersensitive person might be like, oh, my God, I'm going to stop eating pasta. Okay, but you love pasta. So are you really going to stop eating pasta forever?

Probably not. I think a big thing with that trend was that a lot of people were misled into the idea that, you know, glucose spikes aren't normal. Yeah. Yeah. The insulin sensitivity trend. And like this is what happened to my blood sugar after I ate three dates. This is what happened after. Yeah.

And there's like that one fella that makes those videos. To be honest, I wonder how he's doing. But, you know, it's like it's cool. information for people to see, but really that's all it is. It's like it's just cool in isolation and that's it. So 100%. And obviously another, another trend. It's not actionable, right?

For athletes especially, it's not actionable. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's good information to a point. And then after that, it's like, all right, I need to continue to have some sort of a diet. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And one of the trends that I love watching the debug is, is the influence in the

supermarket. In terms of the nutrition space, do you think that them kind of trends are more harmful than productive, especially when they're kind of demonize in one food group and I'm telling you, this is what's making you sick or big farmer trying to kill you, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. My personal favorite is like doctors when they bring in doctors and like healthcare professionals

and they go, they're trying to kill you and they're incentivized. And I go, uh, uh, You know, like I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding. And I think it's definitely harmful. I think the barrier of entry being so low. And, you know, there's a new subsector of these grocery store walkers. They all kind of have their own unique twist on how they garner your attention. Some will do it shirtless.

Some will do it shirtless with a waist trimming filter. Some will do it with, you know, spins and all sorts of wacky stuff. in the intro. But again, you know, I love where their head is at where they want to find healthier options. But when it starts to be baseless defamation of brands and of people that are like this massive corporation, they tend to, and that's the pattern is they tend to tie themselves to this idea that it's a this big entity that wants the little man you, the little person to suffer just so that they can make a quick buck and and you're trapped and you have no other choice and and so you know what I want to say to that is the the popular example I always

uses Oreos because I think we can all kind of go first of all it's a global brand that everyone recognizes which is why I go for that one and it's also a global brand that everyone recognized that I don't think anyone associates with being healthy necessarily. So I think we all agree. Like, Oreos are freaking delicious. Maybe you don't love them. That's fine.

But we also all agree they're not healthy. Do I think that Oreos and the people like Christie's Cook or whatever, you know, parent company owns it in whatever country you live in, but do I think the owners of that company are going, oh, we're trying to like put something in it to make you addicted to it? Like, yes and no?

because they just want to make it as tasty as possible so that you'll buy more because simple economics. If you like it, you'll buy it. Right. And that's the part that they always leave out of the equation. They're like, oh, well, they're putting in this seed oils, palm oils, like all of these things. And I go, it's not that. It's just that it is ridiculously dense in calories and tastes unbelievably good. And it's super low in fiber. And it's not hydrating, you know, like things that that occur in nature like fruits and vegetables, they have a solid amount of water, a solid amount of fiber,

which over time, and they're not like super highly palatable, like their taste isn't refined like an Oreo would be, right? So all that combination of things makes it a lot harder to overeat something that happens in nature, whereas an Oreo is very easy to overeat because it's such a refined thing, and you can get so many calories in,

such a dense package and then you know they'll normally come up with some look at this alternative product and my personal favorite is when the alternative product is contradicting whatever they just had a spiel about i love those videos i genuinely do but um but yeah the and they're always financially compensated like maybe not always you know i god bless that cara girl who's you know the fart account has more followers than she does but um i don't think she's financially compensated and i i do think she's just like doing her damn best but there's the other girls uh that are right they'll have a discount code or whatever and at the end of the day i would love for the consumers to just know like hey that this like i'm i'm all for you making your money

by the way i'm not against people making their money but if your argument is going to be this person is just trying to make money off of you that's unhealthy by this product because i make money well okay the argument is not then that this person doesn't care about your health or this company. The argument is now, I just don't like that you're paying them, you should pay me. That's more so what the argument becomes

despite their fantastic, you know, cat and mouse tactic. And you should pay me four times as much because Biden says naturally. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, natural non-GMO. Non-GMO is my favorite. I love that one.

Literally the most meaningless thing ever. My biggest issue is it that like it's not even that they're trying to make money or they're pushing their narrative, but more so that the fear mongering around food, especially for, let's say, a family who is going to the supermarket, knowing they have like three or four kids and, you know, you're living in an economy where, you know, like it's a lot of people are struggling financially anyway. And then they're getting demonized for, you know, buying a certain food that's, you know, non-organic or so on and so it just puts more pressure on families anyway you know guilt shipping them thinking that oh you know I'm a bad parent because I'm feeding my children X Y and Z because

you know it's it's a cheaper option and this person says that you know this isn't good for you but this is because this says organic or health or whatever the case may be and but it's about four times the price yeah and and something that you'll you'll probably find quite interesting is like

I uh this is for a disclosure statement. I do work in tandem with the Beef Council in America, the NCBA, and on a trip with them last week, I got to meet with a lot of ranchers. So cattle ranchers. Yeah. Or farmers, again, if they're listening to this, guys, don't fucking hose me. It's different depending on the destination, rancher, farmer, depending where they are and what they do. Okay, so ranchers. You know, I'm sure you've heard the argument of like, oh, you've got to have grass finished, you know, grass finished and grain fed.

Have you heard like those two arguments? Grain finished, grain, so changes rather, whether it's grass finished or grain finished. The finish is where it's different. So my favorite is even the carnivore dieters, you would think that a rancher, someone whose only job is that they sell beef. you would think that they would love this community. That was the greatest thing ever. But even they are not loving the misinformation spread by the carnivore community.

Because again, think about how large a cow is. And if you know the anatomy of a cow, not all of that is stakes, right? Most of it, a large majority of it is not steak. So if every single person in theory were to go out and be like, I'm just only going to get, I mean, they don't care if it's grass finished or grain finished. Grain finished is significantly more economic for them, but also significantly better for the environment because it requires less space. But let's just say, okay, grass finished. We went, everyone went that route. They'd be cool with that.

Again, they would just supply and demand. They would adjust. But you are screwing. over that farmer because now they have to figure out if all you're buying is the steaks, what do you do with all that ground beef? Which is like two thirds, if I'm not mistaken, two thirds of the rest of the cow. So now you're unable to feed people, you know, your country, which we, by the way, we just got to a point where we have enough food in this world to feed everybody. Like this is a recent thing. And we're talking like, oh, like we can, you know, people

are behaving as if there's going to be food to go around forever. Well, not if we all only eat steaks. Right? So it's, it's, it's, it's the minutia is very important in nutrition. And I think people with their over simplifications over, you know, like even your Eddie abuse and guys like that, not to slander them here, but I just think it's, it's very reckless to go out on the record and be like, you know, your diet is shit. You know, you're doing shit. You know, you're doing shit. it because it's just putting pressure on people. I would never want to go. Nutrition is very sensitive.

It's a very sensitive topic. And I would never want to go into somebody's cart and, you know, tell them, hey, you shouldn't be eating this. Hey, there are the worst ones of all them. Yeah. And there's a few that I see that are UK-based that do that or different parts of that neck of the woods, but some in Ireland too. but the point of what I'm trying to say with that is,

and you touched on it earlier, is that it's the socioeconomic factors that you cannot see. Especially nowadays, we kind of all dress the same. You know, within a certain region, we kind of all dressed the same. It's not like, sure, if somebody's wearing all burberry or whatever, like, okay, they got money. But like, if I'm dressed the way I'm dressed and I show up and you're dressed the way you're dressed,

I don't know how much you got in your budget, but maybe you've got 100 quid, $100, and maybe conversely, like you've got 100, I've got 300 for my budget. That's a massive difference when you're trying to feed just myself, or maybe, again, you've got three kids and one of them plays football five times a week and you're really trying to push it

so that they can have that normal childhood. You want your kid to have everything that they want. You know, you want your kid. to live a good life, especially if you didn't. So it's a really, like, important thing that having a, you know, formal education and nutrition, while I don't think it's necessary for everyone to be able to make the best decisions for themselves, it's definitely why registered dietitians have the one-up on every other profession in terms of their empathy towards their clients.

You know, and I have that same education, and that's why. Because we spent so much time talking about, okay, well, culturally, where's this person from? Right? Like, if you showed up to my parents and we were living in Hamilton, Ontario, where I grew up, they are Bosnians. We have a lot of Bosnian people in that vicinity. My mom did all the cooking at home. But if you just randomly told her, like, you know, one day, she had to eat the American

diet, she would fucking lose her marbles. You know what I mean? Like, they just wouldn't be, they would not be able to comprehend that. And now my dad's chill with pizza and whatever, but like there's still, there's still a lot of, like, that's a cultural shift that you've got to push people through. So culture is a big one. You also have to look at, obviously, earnings, which we talked about. You have to look at access.

Maybe not so big of an issue where you guys are, but in parts of Canada, where you can only access it by plane, getting a bag of spinach is next to impossible. Like literally, what you do get it and it's wilted right away. And that's part of like none of it. I had a friend of mine who was a teacher there for a period of time, somebody that I went to university with. And, you know, she would send photos from none of it. I was shocked.

And on top of that, you're paying like $20 for a bag of spinach like this. The whole thing's wilted. You're like, what? But again, that's an extreme example. but it occurs in the U.S. across the U.S. as well. You know, there's spots where you can't get that, you know, all the organic. So for the people that are like, oh, just eat organic. Well, there's some people that literally don't have access to organic anything.

So what do you tell that person then when they can't just turn their brain off like you did? Right. So it's all of these factors that I think people tend to forget and only will understand if they've seen it. and that's where, you know, a formal education does help. And while I don't think it's necessary, I do think it's important to just be willing to hear another side, which is I am willing, you know, contrary to maybe popular belief, I do give people a two comment limit, you know, their first comment,

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and I'll hear them out. Second comment, especially if there's some merit to their first one, I'll be like, all right, yeah, let's have a conversation. I've been proven wrong in my own comment sections. And I think it's very important to be willing as a creator and as someone who wants to spread information. I'm not always going to call it misinformation, right? Because even the guys that are talking rubbish are right sometimes. But, you know, it's not possible like your Eddie abused to be like telling people, hey, just eat liver, steak and eggs.

Guys eating a pack of 12 eggs, like as if that's the most economically sustainable way of eating. like that's ridiculous meanwhile a majority of Americans Canadians, Australians and UK are not consuming anywhere near the fruits and veg that they should just some food for thought right

another thing you just said there that I in my head I was like that's such a good point like anyone who I follow who is credible who's a registered dietitian who has been in that space for a long time never once do you see them

shaming someone for their field decisions. There's always empathy. And obviously there's something in that where it's like once you understand, you're not going to be going around demonizing people's field decisions or looking in their carts. Yeah. Yeah.

It's very, when you go through these internships and these work placements, you know, I spent a lot of time as well in long-term care. And that's one. I realized I didn't want to be a clinical dietitian at that time. But, you know, that's my decision. All of the dietitians, again, I have a lot of followers that are dietitians.

And I know that I have garnered the respect of the respect of the dietitian community so I can speak to this. It was my personal decision. But in that moment, I realized, holy crap. Like, these are people that, like, especially in palliative care, dietitians that work in palliative care are, next level. They are not paid well. They are not. They are paid worse here than teachers. They work crazy hours. They're changing. They're tube feeding people a lot of the time. And they're coming up with, and if they're not tube feeding, they're coming up with creative ways to feed people that can't chew, to feed people that are like you and me. There's foods that we

don't like. I don't like olives. I know some people will hose me for that. I don't like olives. But let's say you don't like, I don't know, cucumbers. And cucumbers are in season, and that's the only kind of thing nearby that you guys can have access to. Well, what then? What are you going to feed that person?

You have to find something within what they like as well, and that's a big driver of food decisions that we didn't talk about. But what they enjoy, what they grew up culturally, whatever, you have to find a way to feed these people and try to make it as healthy as possible because ideal is impossible.

No one will ever have ideal. And as somebody who talks to athletes, athletes all the time. I'm sure you've talked about this many times, but I'll just kind of hammer at home again, is that you will never have the ideal circumstances, ever, even if you had all the money in the world, because then you're missing out on time or something, right? So you will never have ideal. It's just about, and dietitians are fantastic at doing this, but it requires a lot of empathy. It's trying to make the best out of the situation that you have in front of you. It's not always going to be perfect, right? There's obviously,

going to be some downfalls, but it's not the fact that the food guides are out to poison you or the, you know, big pharma, big pharma, yeah, big, big, big, whatever fuck they come up with now. Jesus, I don't know. Yeah, they always come up with something though. I've only two more questions to ask yeah. Yeah, let's, let's fire it up. We got time. Yeah. It's just more on life advice, in the nutrition space. So what would be your advice for people who, you know, aren't in the nutrition space, don't have a good grasp of it, but just want to trust the advice that they're given and just want to live healthier and happier lives.

What advice would you give to that person? Oh, answer, actually rather, ask questions, critical questions. So I think it's always important to just like take a step back with any information that you're given and say like, is that applicable to me? Well, what if, you know, pick the, pick the, pick the comment apart, right? Like, let's say eating, you know, all eggs and beef.

That's like what we were mentioning earlier. Eddie said that I have to eat that. Okay, well, I'm a vegan. So does that work? Probably not. Or I can't buy that much beef because my, you know, my, I don't know, my, I don't know, my, financially I can't afford that much steak.

Okay, well, then that's not going to work, right? So I know that's a super simple example, but like finding these super simple but critical questions to ask and answer before you accept information is incredibly important and can often be the best thing you can do just to better understand nutrition and better understand really any information, right? You know, take that to the code.

COVID vaccine or whatever, right? Like compare it to, well, if I take this, will I die? Probably not. But if I take this, will I reduce my risk of future symptoms? Like, maybe, yes. Is that worth it to me? And that was kind of like the pros and cons that we were always weighing before we got the vaccine if you got it or whatever, right?

So, God, now that's going to get people all political, but. That would be my first clip for the podcast. Fuck. But these are all. things that you need away you can't if you're hoping to get into nutrition and just be like i want to blindly follow anything you can't yeah don't don't get into nutrition if you want to blindly follow something because if you want to blindly follow something then you are getting into a religion yeah that's what it is and no disrespect to anyone that's religious i'm not trying to do that but like

that's evangelism that is not science but that is like you're you're absolutely right it is is essentially a religion for some people. And I think, you know, if you're someone who just wants access to better information and you have these people come up on your Instagram feed or your TikTok or Facebook or whatever it is and they're telling you to eat a certain way or do a certain thing, like, what's the incentive for them? Like, where's the money trail? Yeah.

That will essentially give you the answers that you need. Like, does this person gain anything from me blindly following? this advice. Yeah. And that one's even a tough one with a caveat because, you know, there's a lot of good guys that like maybe are sponsored by a supplement company or whatever. But I will say the only caveat I will say most of the like credible people that are sponsored or like even Lane Norton.

I think while I don't agree with everything that he says or how he says everything. But I would argue, you know, I would die on that hill that he is a very credible source of information. Same with Alan Aragon. on. I've gotten to chat with him a lot recently. Great. Yeah, I noticed the book. Yep, I got it too. It's a great book. By the way, if anybody's curious, they should definitely get the flexible dieting book from Alan. Great read. You're welcome, Alan. Hopefully it generates a couple sales. But I think when looking at that, you know, because it is, you know, everything's a sales world.

I understand that. You know, people have bills to pay. And when you are providing information, you hope to get something out of it. I get it. Right. That's fine. And you should be okay with that too. That's fine. You shouldn't just see someone has a discount code, immediately the red flag. However, if they tell you, if they address the fact that it's a conflict of interest, like if they say, hey, just to let you know if I, you know, if you buy with this, you will be supporting me. You don't have to buy with this. You can buy your supplements elsewhere. Those people are usually the ones that I'm like, okay, that's a green flag.

There's transparency there. Yeah, there's transparency. Exactly. The people that are like, you know, they have a creatine. Like, I mean, creatine's the same. Doesn't matter the company you buy it for. I'll tell you guys that right now for free. So it's like two spots in the world that produce creatine for the entire global market. It's all white labeled stuff. So as with creatine, it's like, well, if you buy creatine from Legion supplements,

which is currently sponsoring me, I'll benefit from that. But that's also why you don't see me posting codes anywhere or anything. unless every once in a while because I really want to move away from that. You know, I, yes, transparency-wise, I do make a small commission from that. But at the end of the day, I never push it enough. That's why it's small because I don't push it enough.

Yeah. Because I don't want to. You're not using whatever it is you're selling to be like, okay, I'm going to demonize this certain thing and saying, no, you can't tap that. This versus that. die, but you can have this. And it's very much black or white extremes.

Yeah. And nutrition is always in the gray. Nutrition is so nuanced. It's always in the gray. And same with athletics and training, you know, which is more so your area of expertise for sure. So I think it's important, you know, like it'd be like saying are quarter squats or half squats useless, right?

Well, depends. Right? If your answer is, if the person that you're following, their answer to questions is often depends. It's probably a much better source of information. Yeah. Because it does occur in the grave. From all the knowledge and experience you've built up

throughout the years, teaching nutrition, what advice would you pass on to the younger generation? To the younger generation of nutrition professionals or of just like in general nutrition. I think of in general, you know, kids who, you know, want to play sport, want to live healthier lives, don't want to fall for for misinformation. I would say actually follow the guidelines.

I would say that they don't, and more specifically than that, I would say if the advice sounds sexy, it doesn't work. If it sounds very sexy and like, oh man, this is going to happen in 30 days. Oh man, this is going to happen in 10 days. You will reach a point, you know, I hope the people that are listening to this are at the point where they're confident in their bodies, but if they're not, remember that it took them a while to get to that point. They didn't just wake up and lack confidence in their body. They didn't just wake up 30, 40, 50 pounds overweight, right? They got there very slowly. They just didn't know it because

they hit a wall point. You know, they hit rock bottom and that's kind of when they noticed it. So don't expect your body to just change overnight. Think about what you can add to your diet. think about what you should take away. And that'll be a significant decrease on the stress or the mental burden of, you know, dieting. Whether even if it's, you know, increasing, trying to gain weight, okay, we're trying to add protein. We're trying to, where can we add meals? If we're trying to lose weight, where can we add veggies? Where can we, how can we strategically shift our diet so that, you know, we can result in a, you know,

calorie deficit. But, you know, conversely also, if I'm trying to fuel for performance, how can I push from 30 grams to 40 grams per hour, how can I add, you know, while I'm running? Where can I get these carbs from? Am I doing gels? Am I doing whatever? So it's all about, it's all about thinking about what you can add. Don't think about what you can take away from your diet because it's a lot easier to think

about it that way and a lot better for you mentally to sustain it. Yeah, that's great. That's great advice. I would say be a pencil with your diet rather than a racer. That's good. Yeah, I like that. I'm going to steal that, actually. That's very good.

Well, I style it, so. So we're just past it. Hey, I'll take it. Same question, but actually for someone who is getting into the nutrition space and wants to make a career out of a profession, what advice would you have for them? You don't know shit. That's what I would tell them.

You don't know shit. And the reason why I say it like that is because I was humbled so badly. And this goes back to what we talked about at the very beginning when we just signed on was eco-chambers. You just spent four years, if not more, four to eight, depending on the specific field that you studied in, getting an education and nutrition and fitness or whatever, again, whatever it is that you were doing,

you don't know anything. Because what you know is what you know. You don't know what you don't know. And there's a lot that you don't know and specifically applying what you know to people, don't know is very difficult. So let's take a specific example. Nutrition. I was humbled when I made an Instagram account five years ago and I didn't gain any followers for the first two years. And I was humbled by that not because I thought that, I don't think that, you know, I definitely

think my first bit of content was very cringy. But, and so I do think I improved upon it in that regard and I moved away from photo and went more towards video because I felt like that was more my thing and I could express myself a little bit better. But what I realized is if I don't know how to deliver my message to someone, it doesn't matter how smart I am. It doesn't matter that I could be the smartest chap in the room. It doesn't matter because no one will ever know

because I don't know how to communicate to people. So find a way to speak the language that the people around you are speaking, you know, literally your face. figuratively if you got to go that's buss in cap for real for real you know whatever you got to do to make sure that you're speaking the language of the people you're trying to speak to it's very important to do that and the other thing is people you know if it's specific to instagram and all of that stuff you know my brother gave me the best firmest um you know at that time when it was two years and i think i had like 300 followers it must have been less than 500 because i have a person

account that has like 500 something, I was less than that personal account. When I made that jump past the personal account, I kind of remembered this moment where my brother told me, no one gives a fuck what you have to say. My brother was always blunt. He told it exactly like that. And he said, nobody gives a fuck what you have to say. And I go, what do you, like, why are you being rude to me? You know, he's like, no, I'm not just, not just saying that to like put you down. He's like, nobody, like give someone a reason to give a fuck about what you have to say. And so, you know, it's building credibility, it's trying to go out there

and give people extra value for free and expect nothing in return. It's a very long game and it's not going to be one that just fills your pockets with money right off the jump. And if it does, you're doing something wrong. If nutrition fills your pockets off the jump, you're doing something wrong

or you struck some like miracle product gold, you know, which great, happy for you, but if you're doing, you know, if you're helping people, and that's your goal, is to help people, whether it's nutrition in a hospital or nutrition for sport, you're going to have to go through a lot of working for free, trying to get your name out there, trying to build up credibility, trying to make posts for free. Again, I think people forget that I work a job and, you know, work full-time, multiple jobs, I should say, and I make content for free.

I will not change that because obviously that gives me a lot of other opportunities. and now as a result, but also it gives me fulfillment of reaching more people, which I never could do in Vancouver, Canada, you know. I could never reach people across the globe and help educate them about their diabetes and how they treat themselves and how they, you know, perform with their sport.

It's kind of the same with you as at the beginning, you were mentioning that you have clients on the West Coast here too. You would never have that without socials. So it's the game we got to play, but definitely be happy to take the, like kind of the long road and be happy to take the less instantaneous gratification. Do you think that if you knew how long of a road it was going to be or how difficult it was going to be that you would have started? Oh, maybe not. Maybe not. Honestly, yeah, it would be, I think I had blind optimism.

Yeah. Right? I think I was like, what I'm doing is so important. And, and, you know, that shifted. I did, I did really, truly believe. I was like, what I'm doing is so important. What I'm doing is providing people so much value. Now, ironically enough, it's probably providing people more value than it did back then, but

now it maybe doesn't feel that way. Now I just want people to feel less fear. I don't want people to fear going to the grocery. store. I don't want people to feel bad for being a bad parent. We talked about that and that's something that I get spoken to a lot. Actually, when I was crossing the border into the U.S. on my last trip, the crossing agent recognized me, which crazy experience, by the way, to be recognized and taking a photo with someone. But she told me herself, like when you hear these moments when it's a real person and they tell you like, hey, I was in a dark spot and I started watching some of your

videos and they were all about the people that I was following and how, you know, what they were saying and you broke it down into the science and, you know, made it quite simple and made me understand it and made me understand that there's no reason to fear. And, you know, with this specific person, she just told me that her grocery bills went down like, I think she said 40%. Like, that's crazy. So that and, you know, she was emotional about it. And to me, like that, I could never make you feel that moment that I had. But when I get those from people online or in person, it's very empowering because I think, wow, imagine how much longer that would have had to go if I just didn't make silly videos in my room.

Yeah. That really reminds me of like, all right, focusing on the or enjoying the process. like I know we say this all the time to clients and as cringy as it is, enjoying the process rather than the outcome. And the outcome might be, okay, when am I going to get more followers or when am I going to get my big payday

or when am I going to get whatever it is? When there's that kind of switch from I'm going to make these videos now because I know that this is actually going to help someone and it's like a selfless act doing your creation rather than a self. selfish one, just what can I get out of this process? Like, I think everything changes then as well.

I also think, I also think followers can feel that. When you're, when you're creating a post strictly out of financial gain, that's why people don't, that's why people scroll past ads. Yeah. Right? Whereas there are certain ads that people will have sometimes on TikTok very seldomly, but you're like, wow, that was an ad. When you're confused that it was an ad, you're like, damn, that was really well done, right?

Like that person made me think they made me feel some type of way. And so, yeah, it's that. It's that here, I'm going to give you something and I don't want anything in return. I just want to educate you or entertain you. You know, sometimes I do try to make entertaining content. You know, I try to make my education entertaining too. And I don't, despite popular belief, I don't just make fun of people. I don't throw around ad hominems in my videos.

I'm typically making fun of ideas. Sure, I'll do that. But don't put your idea out there if you don't want someone to make fun of it. And if somebody made fun of my ideas, that's cool. They do it all the time. I'll argue with them. I'll give them the time of day. But yeah, I think it's a go ahead.

Yeah, there's another thing that I really took from that as well is like about two years in and, you know, with your brother's conversation and taking, essentially taking complete ownership of why you're getting traction or not getting traction. or not getting traction, that's when someone takes complete ownership, that's when things probably start to change. I wonder, from you being in competitive sport, has that helped you in terms of, you know, running your own business and, you know, making them knocks and also being like, right, well, if I'm not where I want to be, I've known to complain about or just take the ownership that, you know, I'm where I need to be because I'm as good as I am at the moment.

Yeah, that's an incredible way of putting it. I would wholeheartedly say that. And especially when you look at tennis, I've never had anyone else to blame by myself. I can't go out and blame coach for the game plan because I didn't execute. I can't. Or if I did execute it fully and it didn't work, I can't blame coach.

I should have been the one that changed it up when it didn't work. So it's the same thing with business. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm happy with, you know, no pay days. And I just work hard and figure it out, provide the value. until eventually maybe I'll find something that works that's paying me a little bit more through evidence nutrition but like you know I'm doing fine I'm okay

but that's where sport comes from yeah as a child even to give yourself that self-belief yeah from the last I and I and I just I'm I fully give that to tennis in that or you know if you play footy or whatever the listeners are playing you know is is you go in and you go three hours, four hours,

you're doing the same shit at training every day, right? Like, you show up for training four hours every day. For lack of better, of course, you're improving a little bit, progressing day by day, but you're doing the same things, more or less every single day. What kind of like delusion is required to do that every single day? Well, that's the same thing as running a business. You have to be so unbelievably delusional

to show up every single day, knowing full well, you're going to have a fire in front of your face the moment you start and the moment you end, it's still going to be the same and you still show up day after day after day to keep putting out little fires as best as you can in hopes that, you know, you'll make some sort of a difference on that overall big fire. That's, yeah, it's the, I was talking about this actually the other day on court with one of the athletes is like a week ago.

It's you have to be so hopelessly delusional. Yeah, to start a business. to run a business, to be a successful athlete. I think you have to be hopelessly delusional and just follow. It's not blind, you know, you're not following blind. You're just trusting your process so much and trusting in your ability to go through the process, right? And the fact that I am capable of grinding out, you know, if you told me to get to 100,000 followers, I got to do two videos a day, every single day for the next year.

Okay, let's do it. Where do I sign up? how do I how do I get it done? I'm already four video ideas in. Let's go. So like that, that for me is like 100% from sport.

And I think obviously if you're a parent listening to this and your child is not playing a sport, the fuck are you doing, get them moving. But I think aside from obviously the health benefits of it, the confidence is inspiring for children, right? Yeah, it's the self-belief that you get.

It's the optimism, everything else. That comes from that as well. Yeah, from controlled adversity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Last question I'll just ask you just off the top of head and then I promise I'll leave this.

No, you're all good. You're all good. You're all good. Did you have any coaches that left last and impressions on you or how you, you know, deliver your coaching service to people now? Yeah. I had one. I had a few, you know. There's a few and they all left.

their own mark, I would say, good and bad. Obviously, my dad was my first coach of any kind. So, you know, shout out to him. Still not the best communicator. Very stubborn guy. But I guess I learned from that. So he hates that. He hates my argumentative side and how I'll always argue people tooth and nail.

But I think he's very, he's proud nonetheless when, you know, the other day someone, when he was around came up. It was like, oh, my God, I love your content. I love everything and he's like, what the fuck? You know? So, yeah, but as far as nutrition coaching goes, is they all kind of leave their own little imprint on how I do things. But the big one is like I just got to try to put myself in other people's shoes and listen first.

You know, I hear it a lot and I heard it again in a story. Somebody talked about it. You got two years in one mouth. You better be listening twice as much as you are talking. So it's something that I, it's cliche, but I think it rings so true with regards to coaching because if someone is, you know, they just have keto John or whatever in their name and they live by an identity and a certain way of eating or, you know, you can do the same with any type of training like CrossFit, you know, they can only train you in that way and you don't

want to be trained that way. Well, then that's not the coach for you. and that person is a little bit one-dimensional. As far as nutrition goes, that shouldn't be the case, right? Like if you're a dietitian, if you go to a dietitian and you say, I want to eat keto and the dietitian is like a vegan and only works with vegans, well, then probably not going to be a good call for you. Also, where did you find this dietitian?

But in this hypothetical example, but yeah, I think all of my coaches, all the good and bad, whether they left a good impression or a bad impression on me, I'm happy they left some impression on me. And hopefully I was able to improve, upon it. That's my goal. 100%. Look, this has been such a helpful episode. I really appreciate your time. Where could people go if they want to find out a little bit more about you? You want to follow your content, want to work with you. Where can I go to find you? So if you want to work with me,

I do some one-on-one coaching. Looking into expanding into group, but for right now, one-on-one coaching is at Encejavovicnutrition.com. Or you can follow me on all socials, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram at Evidence Nutrition. Yeah, and I would highly recommend them. I especially love your YouTube channel. That one that you did on the tennis, the 10 minute video. I loved every minute of that.

I appreciate that. I want to make more like that one, to be honest. I definitely just got to keep at it. It requires a lot of work because I do all. I'm a one-man show. The longer form content, it's a lot more effort, but it really is probably the best way to educate people. especially with the fast pace of

of Instagram and TikTok and Reels in general these days. Yeah, I struggle to keep it under a minute and a half even with Reels. Like when I can keep it and get it up for a short, I'm like, oh, under 60 seconds, I can get it on a short. Yes. But, but, you know, it's tough, but I'm here for it.

You know, it's like what you said earlier, like what I know how much work is required to get stuff done. like it takes me like three hours minimum for each video. So if it takes me 12 hours minimum, it took me about 12 hours, I think, for that tennis video. And that's pretty fast for a longer video. So if it takes me that long, will I do it? Yeah, I just need to make time to do it.

You know, and unfortunately, you have to make sacrifices for that, personal life, et cetera. And maybe I can't tan as much as most other people, but it is what it is. I'm happy to do it as long as I know that I trust in myself that I'm making an impact, right? I think you definitely are. I don't think people realize the amount of effort that goes in behind them sorts of videos.

So listen, I appreciate your work. I appreciate your time today. So thank you. Amen. I appreciate it. And you're doing a great job yourself, especially with the memes. I like when I can always go over to your page for a good laugh. Yeah.

I want to have that mixture of entertainment as well with meditation. I love it, dude. It's all my kind of energy. I love it. I'm here for it. And I appreciate your time, dude. And thanks for putting this on. I know podcasts are not that easy to come up with.

And this took a lot longer and the edit's going to take a whole lot of time. So I appreciate you. Thanks for watching. If you like that episode and you want to see more content like this, make sure you're subscribed. And I'll see you on the next one.