The Uneducated PT Podcast - #49 Roy Ritchie - Exploring Our Echo Chambers

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

In this episode we speak to my good friend and health and fitness coach Roy RitchieWe speak about a number of topics including strong biases thoughts being manipulated by others? Valuing yourself more, male body image issues and much more We also speak about moving abroad and how south america has impacted Roy. If you like this episode don't forget to like subscribe and share it to your socials. 

Hello and welcome to the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carlo Rourke. The goal of this podcast is to bring on interest and knowledgeable people from all walks of life, learn a little something from each conversation and for you, the listener, just learn something from each episode. So don't forget to subscribe to the channel, press the box below, show some support and I'll see you on the next episode. Okay, number one, even I've had strong biases in the past that I cringe at now, but think about how much this stuff actually benefits you.

So my question to you is, how can we avoid or reduce our actions and thoughts that might be manipulated by others? Because I know you spoke about this on your page. This, I would probably say this comes down to a lot of self-auditing, you know? Like, you know, when you look, when you're looking at biases and opinions in any way in your life based on relationships or. you know, careers or fitness and all these things. They come from somewhere and they always come from like what your experiences of being, but also what you're currently inspired by. You know, for example, if I'm really into, I'm going to use Jordan Pearson, for example, because he keeps appearing on my Facebook ads at the moment. If you're really into his stuff at the moment, then you're going to

consume all his stuff. You're going to listen to podcasts. You're going to watch YouTube. So you're just going to collect his points of views. But they're not yours. You're just kind of collecting them and you're being, you're almost being manipulated by them and saying, oh, okay, he says this. I totally get it now. I totally get it. And he may open up or he or the environment or someone else. It may open up a new pathway for you, which is helping you. think differently, but realistically what it should be doing, and we're

bad at this, and this is something I've learned over time is, it's taking, take what's useful, and then making your own interpretation of it. But what tends to happen is people will look at this information or this experience and say

this is what it is and they completely discard everything. they've known or they believe their values or their principles, they completely abandon it. And this is their new thought process and this is their new action. And this also, like I said in the quote, this can be really dangerous because it becomes a bias.

You now only see this. And if you look at things from like the fitness industry at the moment, you know yourself, mate, whenever you go into somebody's profile and they've got in their bio, you know, like arnivore, the carnivore code or I'm a crossfitter or something. That is all they see. And anything else threatens that. And if something threatens that, then they go on the attack. It means they're unwilling to listen. They're unwilling to be open-minded and say, oh, okay, I see your point of view. I don't particularly agree, but I respect it. So instead, they just go on the attack and

protect that bias even more, you know, so they almost like double up. Now, I'm sure you've been the same mate, I've done it. You know, like, again, with, I remember when I used to be flexible dieter, you know, for me, because, because I loved showing, helping people understand that there's freedom of food, freedom of choice and whatnot. And at the time where flexible dieting was the thing, you know, I was like, oh, flexible diet and flexible dying, you can eat what you want, da, da, da, da, da, da. But in truth, you can't eat what you want. And through flexible dieting, what I learned over time was, giving people too much to think about and too much decision making can actually cause issues. So again, flexible dieting is a nice tool to have, but it's not the only

tool. And it's the same when, you know, I did about bodybuilding and I realized the issues that came along with it, body dysmorphia, eating disorders, da-da-da-da-da. So then I transitioned into powerlifting, but I loved powerlifting because of it was more supportive. I felt more empowered. I felt stronger. I loved steering myself toward like performance and what I could do as opposed to how I looked. But then what happened. What happened? there is I then I never I never subscribed to being a power lifter like I never did the whole cross-foot thing like I never once went I'm a powerlifter and I never once dealt into it I just kind of enjoyed it however what it did was because it gave me something I then became anti-bodybuilding

and I was like every everything about bodybuilding I hated it da da da da da da da da I try to manipulate others with my opinions and whatnot But bodybuilding is great. It's competitive bodybuilding. It can be problematic, you know. But again, this is something I learned over time. And this is something that through some form of reflective practice is really, really important. But again, you know yourself, mate, this is something it takes practice.

It's a way of thinking. If it's drilled into you, then you cannot just change it overnight or by reading a book or by listen to a podcast. or, you know, it takes something that you're going to have to show up and pull yourself up on, you know. And instead of just listening to someone, it's doing that self-autin and saying, hey, what does this mean? Or if you're going to say something, I'll give you an example. I'm chatting to a guy in DMs at the moment. And he told me some stuff that he'd been doing. And it wasn't healthy.

It wasn't great at all. and I typed out some stuff and I almost went into fix-it mode and then I just stopped and went hold on a sec, hold on a second. You know this stuff? He doesn't. It's his current beliefs. So if you then try and go into fix-up mode

or whatever, you could make him feel stupid. He might get defensive or whatever. And I was like, he's in this conversation because he's asking for help. He might be doing it subliminally. but he's asking for help so listen to him like don't don't try and stoke anything stop the fire or anything like that just let the conversation open up and i was like just

but again for me when i sat back i was like oh a previous version of me wouldn't have done that a previous version of me wouldn't have stopped like drew a line and went hey let's think about this why are you saying this and who is it benefiting is it making you feel great because you get your coaching hat on or you know

how do you want this conversation to go how do you want this person to feel by being in this conversation so again just moments like that I even notice myself you know it's a well I think that's why social media is actually so toxic at the moment

and there's so many arguments on social media about different people's beliefs because like you're right it's like social media and just the internet in general like it's just a super computer that if you like something it's going to just show you more of that and like you might you know subconsciously like something or someone made a good point and you like it and then three or four more videos comes up like that and six or seven more videos comes up like that and then before you know it your whole feed is surrounded by this one belief that now you're so down the rabahole you don't know how you don't know how to kind of come back out of it.

And that's where people's extreme views can come from. And that's where they can, like, their identity will come from. Like you touch on, like, you know, the carnivore diet there. Like, you'll have people with the carnivore in their name. So that is their identity now. So it makes it. So if you challenge that identity, regardless if someone's pointed with the facts, they are still going to, you know, fight back against that because you're not just,

you're not just criticizing what they believe. now you're criticising them because they are that belief because they have you know created that as their identity and that's a really like you said it's like you can't you can't coach someone out of that or you can't shout at someone for change and something like that you have to let them come out of it themselves which can take a long time yeah you'll know you'll notice it with clients as well i mean i've had clients who are ready you know they're they're at the point where they're fed up they've tried You know, they've tried different things, whether it's coaches, trends. They've tried to go on their own, whatever it is, but they're now open to change and they're

open to trust in the process. But equally, and again, any good coach will attest to this, but then you'll get clients, it just doesn't work, you know, because they dig their heels in so hard. And regardless of how many different approaches and stuff you do, you know, they, they might be hanging on to something. They might be hanging on to an old belief and old experience. Even it might be the environment they're in, whether it's digital or in person, you know, something there's just an unwillingness to let go of that. So sometimes people just never get there. But then sometimes it does require just being patient, you know, being patient with the

person. And but one of the other things on that as well, and obviously this is the power social media, especially on TikTok, where if you, like if you watch, like at the moment, like I'm a huge, you know yourself, I'm a huge, a comic big guy, absolutely

loving Deadpool and Wolverine, loving the marketing, everything around it. But at the moment, every time I open TikTok now, it's like, bye, bye, bye. It's like, oh no, like I'm actually getting sick of this song now. It's

But if you're in a hole, like if you're in a hole, like you're having a trouble with a diet or a relationship or something, so you watch a couple of videos on this, all of a sudden you start just getting it over and over again and it's overly consuming, you know? I suppose that's how a lot of people fall into the diet culture trap as well. It's like they might put in something like how to lose 10 pounds and 10 days. and then all that starts to come up in their feed is, you know, all that type of rhetoric to get them to lose weight, essentially. That's actually something I recently was speaking about this to one of my clients. I actually just spoke about him on my stories today, so he's on a fat loss phase and we had a conversation a couple of weeks ago and he said to me, so how much more weight do you think I need to lose? no, no, no, no. Let's draw a line under that. This isn't, we're not, we're not playing that game.

We're not playing that, oh, you need to lose three more kilos. I was like, you've got to take all these things into consideration. You know, you're gaining muscle, and you're retaining glycogen and all these things. I was like, this isn't about how much weight you need to lose in an X amount of days. This is about getting to a point where you can look at yourself and go, I absolutely love what I see the moment. This is, I'm good here, you know. But you know yourself, mate, it's, you see these like stories of bios.

I can help you lose 10 kilos and seven weeks. Cool. Well, what if you have a male that's 120 kilos and you've got a female that's 65 kilos? that 10 kilos in eight weeks is going to look very, very different. Massively different. The sacrifice for each one of them kilos is massively different. So I think it's absolutely wild when people try out them, them offers that, like, it doesn't matter who it is across the board,

whether you're 60 kilos or 100 kilos, you'll lose 10 kilos in seven weeks. I think it's crazy. It just basically means that that person's full of shit. Yeah, I mean, I think you mentioned this before. This is obviously the difficult thing with social media. It's, I don't know if it's getting better or worse. I generally thought social media and the fitness industry was getting better, but through... That's your bias from the coaches that you follow from.

This is exactly it, you know, my environment, my echo chamber, you know. like all say conversations and and i consume personalities and points of view and stuff like that from from people like yourself and lane norr and amelia thompson all these people and it's like cool cool they're their strong voices here but then through reaction videos and even through some of the DMs like i said sometimes people will share who they follow or if they've got a coach what they're planning is and stuff and it blows my mind man i'm just thinking like this can't still be this can't like it

kind of still exist but it does and it's it's obviously a lot more prominent and a lot more stronger than um what i felt you know was was true you know i think i think on the critical thinking side of things i think i think and i heard this on a podcast before it's like if you know a person if you know every point of view that a person has, then like that person isn't a critical thinker. Like when's the last time someone said something that you were like, oh, that surprised me that that person said that. Like that's the type of people that you should probably follow

because, you know, otherwise it's just people, you know, they put themselves into a camp and they're not really thinking. They're just blindly, you know, giving out disinformation, this information, this information, this information. I actually, so I've got really into politics over the last couple of months to my detriment. And there's actually a really good app

that you can put on your computer where, you know, let's say I like something that is quite right wing and then everything pops up right wing. And that's how you kind of fall into that trap of following all the belief systems and everything that they believe on that side. Or let's say it's on the left

and I'm doing the exact same thing and then I'm following all the belief systems on that side rather than thinking critically about each topic or subject. So or being down the centre. So there's this thing that you can, I can't remember the name of it, but it can basically strip your computer. So it's not just following the algorithm of what you're consuming.

It will give you like half of the news from the left, half of the news from the right or a third, say, and then a third down the center. So let's say there's a certain topic that's coming up. You're getting point of views from each side. So you're not being blindly followed by one side. You can actually just look at all the, all the different points of view. And then you can make a critical decision for yourself how you think about that topic.

Dude, I love that. It's really good. I found it there the other week. And I was like, oh, I need to have that because otherwise, it would be very easy for me to just fall down the rabbe hole of a certain, you know, belief system. And that's interesting. It's really interesting to say that because I've never, I've always been like a bit of an eye. armchair political guy, you know, you fall into that trap up. Nothing good can come from politics.

But again, how about you inform yourself and, you know, whatever. But then I've had so many questions being in Latin America, people asking questions on like UK and Scottish politics and stuff. And again, I've had to pull my, I've had to pull myself out a couple of times and go, here look this is what I know and if I give a certain opinion I'll say look yeah this is my bias this is my belief um but take that with a pinch of salt type yeah yeah well I think when you when you have that approach of when you know your limitations that's a good thing it's I think most people I just blindly following information and then they take that as you know the

the gospel true because someone tells them without really critically thinking. So yeah, I think that's a really interesting thing on biases and just critically thinking, okay, is this top process actually a positive impact on my life or not?

And I think that can come with politics. I can think it can come with your health and fitness. I think it can come with any subjects. So I think that was a really interesting piece of writing that you put up. Just be curious, you know. Questions.

Don't be afraid. to ask questions, but also, I'd also say probably ask questions outside of your echo chamber as well, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you should want to be challenged on your belief systems, you know, because then, then you can really see how well they hold up and how well you really believe

the things that you believe. Another one that I wanted to go through, which is, when I have more time, when things are less busy, when I'm more motivated. These things can often mean I don't value myself. Can you elaborate on that one? The last part on there

with the motivation thing, this is something I've been thinking a lot about recently because, I mean, I've played this card. I'm sure you have as well. And I see it a lot online where with the whole motivation thing and whatnot. Now,

I, I, I, I, actually saw one of these posts yesterday. It's not someone I follow. Someone I follow. They shared another coach's, hey, I'm looking for five highly motivated, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, no, no, no, no. If they were motivated, they wouldn't need a coach.

The reason that people seek help is because they don't have it. Like, they don't know, they may, they may not understand it. they may not be going through certain channels to feel that way and whatnot. Like no one is looking for a help who has already motivated. It's as simple as that. The first two points, again, I kind of touch on this because it's such a common thing. You know, whenever people are inactive or unwilling to make any form of change, like it doesn't need to be, you know, world changing.

It can just be whatever, you know, for example, at the moment, I'm trying to improve my reading. Now, I would love to be, I would love to be one of these people who just churns through books. I'm not that person and I'm okay with that. But I still love reading, I still want to do it. Now, if I turn around and say, oh, you know, well, like I really want to read. and if, you know, we had a conversation about this. And if this went on for months and months, and every time we spoke and I'd say,

oh, how's the reading going? I'm not starting it. And it's just an unwillingness to do it. I'm just saying it. It's just verbal, it's verbal vomit, you know. So I don't value reading. I don't value what I gain from it or the experience of it and whatnot.

I just keep saying, it. So if I'm, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I don't value it, then I'm unwilling to do it. I'm on, so I'll just keep saying these common narratives. So when, whenever you get people saying things like, oh, yeah, I wish, I want, I wish I had more time to go at the gym. No, you do, you do. Like, you genuinely do. You know, if you don't have time to go at the gym, and maybe you should look at changing a gym to somewhere that is going to accommodate your time constraints or or even training at home. You know, I mean,

you know, are you going to get a 200 kilo squat in your living room? No, but are you going to get stronger, fitter and build some muscle? Of course you will. Do you think that people, they like, they like the idea of training, reading, whatever that goal is.

That looks like a good goal. I like the idea of it more so than they actually really want to do it because if they really wanted to do it, they'd probably do it. Yeah, I agree with you there. They like the idea of it. I'd probably also say they may feel like they need to do it. You know, maybe, like I said, coming back to the echo chamber thing,

they may be in like some friends or their feed or whatever, and it's like, oh, I want to do this. I want to do this and stuff. Do you think I can come from guilt? Like, oh, I should do this. I probably should read more. I probably should exercise more. Guilt, shame, you know.

They may not like how they feel. They may not like how they look. But there's an unwillingness to change it. But then this isn't me or us putting a spotlight on people. Like I said, saying like, you totally should. You absolutely shoot. It's like you may not know how to, you know, because you know yourself, I talk about this all the time on social media.

It's like if I actually did a post on this yesterday where I says, use, use fitness profiles to or extreme fitness profiles at least to get an idea of what you don't want. Like if you're following someone and they're like, hey guys, this is what I, I eat in a day and I get up and I make my like fancy breakfast or whatever. But a 4 am in the morning. Exactly. I'm going to go and get my steps in and then I, you know,

and then I'm going to go for my workout and then I'm basically just farting about. And it's like, well, that's cool. It looks like they've got zero responsibilities. And it looks like they're, they look like they've never really struggled. So they're basically saying this is what I do. I have this because I do this, so this is what you need to do. Look, I'm not going to sit here and say I'm like Joe Fitness, I'm not. It's like absolutely not, you know.

Yes, I enjoy training two thirds of the time. You won't see me going out and counting my steps. I'll go out to go for a nice walk. Like I always say to clients, like look at quality over quantity. Like quantity is important. The metrics are important depending on your goal, how you're measured on that. But if you're not getting the quality of it, then everything that you are doing is going to be based on a metric.

So if you're looking at like, and this is where I kind of feel like it kind of comes back to the whole motivation, the time thing and stuff like that, it feels like a metric as compared to equality. The quality is intrinsic, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. It's like, how do you want to feel? Like, how do you want to show up? How do you want to live your life?

How do you want to communicate? How do you want your confidence to radiate your self-belief and all these types of things? Cool, then what's going to match that at the moment? and, you know, what are you capable of doing? But the first thing is people are, people commonly just look at the high level thing. Like I said, I kind of come back to obsessed fitness folk or whatever. Or, you know, they'll look at like some top level academic or something and be like, oh, yeah, I wish I could do that.

It's like, no, no, no, it's cool if you wish you could do that, but do you really wish you could do that. How about, like, let's take an interest in it instead? and I kind of come back to the reading thing. So I basically simplified it. I says, look, I'm not going to be one of these people that's going to churn through a book a week. And at the end of the year, and I'll be able to put my Facebook post up and go,

these are all the books that I've read. Like, I'm not that person. But I do want to read. So what I simply did was, I'm going to read for 15 minutes a day. I've got 15 minutes. like I have 100% I have 50 minutes

that day so I looked at the part of my day where I'm going to be more attentive which is first thing in the morning you know once I'm up and I've got a coffee

and whatnot I just sit under bed or the sofa whatever it is and I set a timer on my phone for 50 minutes and I just read I don't try and speed read I don't try and dissect everything like for example this morning and yesterday I'm reading a section

in a book, I'm just not taking it in. But rather than putting pressure on myself, I just went, oh, maybe I'm just not finding this part of the book interesting. But that's okay. Like, it's a part of the journey. Like, it's not always going to be interested. It's not always going to be like high five, let's stick on my stories or, you know, or whatever.

Sometimes you're just going to have to go through the shit, you know, and take it. So, yes, putting 50 minutes yesterday, 15 minutes. it's today, I'll do it again tomorrow. So at the end of the week, I've got, you know, at minimum, what, like an hour and a half of reading? Well, I think a big mistake then people make is even when you said, when I have more time, when things are less busy, that also comes to probably people thinking that they have to do more than is necessary, where you have broke that into, you know, small bites that are

still meaningful that will compound over time. but without overwhelming you where that's probably a trap that a lot of people fall into of thinking that they have to do more than they're currently doing and that's it and if they attempt to do more but they can't then they feel like a failure yeah and then it's like why can't I do this it should be easy like Joe blogs things it's easy you know one of my clients at the moment he's he's from Toronto he's working on a startup and he's moving to New York and three weeks. We had a catch-up last week and he basically said

he's trying to work on a specific habit at the moment and he says I'm taking advantage of the weeks on the lead up to the move so I'm just doubling up on work at the moment. So he says so should I just kind of put this habit into the back burner and wait until I get to New York and I just went no let's not do that because if you then drop the habit,

completely, then we need to rebuild it when you get to New York. And there might be too much friction there. So what we're going to, let's, however, we focus on anchor points. So I says, look, can we do the habit twice a week? Can we do like on a Tuesday and on a Sunday? And in that point, because of that, it's not going to be groundbreaking, but what we've done is we've created two anchor points where we're retaining it. And it's still a part of your. life. So all we're doing is taking it down a couple of gears. And then once we get to New York and you're settled, then we can go up a gear three times a week, four times a week. And it's easier to do. And it's kind of comes back to like you said before, it's like it's almost like this all or nothing

thing, you know, if I can't do everything, I'm going to do nothing. It's like, no, no, no. Like success happens in the gray area, you know, the spectrum. And but it's helping people know that. Like I'm sure you come across with clients. I do. Even people who aren't clients, if I have a conversation and I help them understand that, they're like, oh,

I've never thought of that. And it's like, it just doesn't seem to be a common thing, but it should be, you know? Extremes are easy. It's, it's that gray area that,

that is difficult for people. And it's difficult for me. I'm sure it's difficult for you as well. It's moderation is what's hard. And another real good point that you made there is even like, okay, I'm not enjoying, I'm nothing,

nothing's registering in this part of where I'm reading. And instead of you being like, oh, you know, I'm crap at read and I just can't concentrate there's something wrong with me. Instead of blaming yourself, you accepted that, oh, this is just part of the process. I won't enjoy all of it. And I think that's really a good point. If we relate that back to the client, whether it's on their fitness journey, it's like, you know, you won't feel motivated all the time or you won't have the greatest workout all the

time or you know you will miss a session or two and that's not a reason to berate yourself and be like oh i'm such a failure and just quit it's just to accept that well this is part of the process and i'm only human and you know maybe i actually just don't enjoy this type of exercise or movement as much as i could something else yeah i would always say as well something i've been talking a lot about recently is show up with intensity you know I mean, I said it, I can't remember where I said it. I think it was on one of my posts last week or something. I said, look, if you've only got 60% that day, like give 100% of that 60.

Like, don't go, oh, well, I go 60, so I'm just going to mosey through it and hope it. And, you know, hope it ends soon. It's like, no, no, no, then you just may as well not show up. Like, if that's all you've got, then put an effort into that, what you have there, you know? Well, once you take that action and you give that 100%, whatever that 100% looks like that day, you tend to feel better anyway and that will create that kind of bit of momentum that you need. Another quote that I wanted to go in with you, and you touched on body dysmorphia there a minute ago,

it goes to look back on photos and videos without the video in the back of your head that's focusing on how you look. Can you tell me a little bit about what contributed to your body image issues, you solved them for any listeners that might be struggling today how can how can they improve um that issue that they might have yeah i could only speak from my experience of course um and my experience coaching people um oh where where do i begin with this one um what what was i suppose begin with where what do you think were the components that contribute to the problem in your own experience.

You know what? I'm trying to put myself back into that version of myself. You'll see there's one specific photo that I've posted a number of times, but it's me in a bar and I'm holding a pint. It was actually my trigger photo when I saw it. Like I genuinely thought I was looking forward to seeing that photo. You know, I was out with my cousin and some friends and I was looking forward to it. When my cousin posted it on Facebook, I was just mortified.

I just thought, that's not how I look. It's not how I look. And I was like, well, it is. You know, I mean, in my eyes, like I looked like a mess. And I just thought, is this how people? see me you know is this how I am and but even before that I would I would oftentimes show up in photos if it was a group photo like when I was at my worst good old my worst I think it was 143 kilos and when I was at that I would never

take a photo my own or with one and one with someone it would always be I would always try and angle my body in a certain way or stand behind a group and whatnot. So I've actually got zero photos of myself when I was at my worst because I was always hiding, you know? And one of the other things I always did as well is I never smiled. Like my smile would be that weird, you know, like I would keep my mouth, my mouth would be closed. It would just be like a wide, uncomfortable looking smile. And I feel sad about that sometimes, you know, because I look back in so many moments and experiences.

And I just, I looked uncomfortable. You know, it wasn't like a big radiant smile. Like if you look at all my smile and like photos there, dude, I love smiling. I just, I love laughing. And any opportunity I get, you know, whenever there's a photo and stuff like that. It's just natural.

It's me now. But it makes me sad when I look back on those moments. But one of the things for me was, and this, you know what, I feel like this is an important thing. And this is actually something I only thought about last week was my body dysmorphia got worse when I started to get into fitness. Where it's so funny because some people who are suffering from body image think,

if I get in better shape, that will solve the problem. exactly so again you know i joined like the local dw gym and i and then there's pressure you know you see other you see people in like the stringer vests and stuff like people wearing certain things to train and whatnot when i started to kind of get in shape it was almost like i gave myself permission to to wear certain things and i felt like that would be like a confidence thing but it was really interesting. So when I look back, I remember when I got into decent shape, like I built a decent amount of muscle. I was losing, you know, I was losing the fat. But I remember that there were so many instances where I wanted to have conversations with people,

but I couldn't. So I felt like my being in shape would almost be like a bit of a like a hall pass, you know, to say, hey, like I'm in better shape now. Why do more people not talk to me? And again, it became because it was like a, I'd left the old person behind, you know, so I was bringing my body forward and my health and fitness levels. I didn't do the work mentally or emotionally. So inside, I was still that guy. I was still that, like, really overweight guy who was nervous. We didn't know how to have conversations. You didn't smile.

All these different types of things. but even then when I started it kind of shines through every so often you know I spoke about it recently when I did that when I was on the beach and there was a photographer

and he asked if you could take a portrait of me and I was like oh cool you know and in my head I was like oh it's going to be like Jason Mamoa you know coming out of the sea I'm going to look awesome bottle of whiskey and a cigar

it and stuff. And the next day he sent me the photo and that regard just, it was like 10. It was out of 10. And I immediately remember looking at it and going, oh, that's not how I thought I'd look, you know? And then again, but this is the self-awareness thing. I just pulled it up and like, whoa, hold on a sec here. You look pretty good, you know, and that was a cool experience. the guy asked you for a reason, all these different things. And so I now treasure the photo, I treasure the experience. But then this is where, and again, I cannot give a resolution. I cannot give, hey, this is what you should do or shouldn't do.

But if there's a reason that you feel uncomfortable in these moments, you know, videos or photos and stuff like that because look at the amount of times people well you've probably come across it yourself where there's a there's a photo and you look at it with someone and they'll immediately go oh i hate this photo look at my leg or look at this and you don't even see it you don't see it but they see it because that is their internal that is their automatic i need to scan myself to see if i look good in this photo to see if I like the photo, but they're not going to, they're never going to because they've not done the work to accept their body.

You know, so they're so used to, like I said before, they're so used to being at a certain angle or doing a certain filter or positioning itself in a certain way. But if there's a candid photo, they're going to hate it because the work is not being done to enjoy the body they've got, accept the body they've got but also showing up for themselves

if they don't like the body they've got yes there's some mental and emotional work it can be done there but they can also change their body they can also change how they feel about their body and I'm not talking about losing tons of fat or gaining tons of muscle or something stuff like that

you know like if they enjoy running getting to running like be proud of what your what your body's able to do you know if you if you're interested in getting stronger or like I said build a muscle or whatever that may mean like get into that your body will naturally change like minded but you still have to do the the mental and emotional work to keep coming back to that and you could always attach this to maybe like gratitude or or maybe you might need to work with a therapist or a specialist to get them to give you the tools. Because, you know, we've spoken before about therapy.

I mean, there's so many things I tried to do for years and years and years and I never got there because I didn't have the tools and I didn't know the tools existed. So how could I get better at something if I didn't know it existed? So I needed to go and see someone for them to give me those tools and say, hey Roy, here's, here's the tools, here's how to use them. And all of a sudden, it just opened up a whole new world for me. So, I mean, there's things that you could do. But the main thing I would always say is whatever you're trying to do,

another diet and another workout plan is not going to, it's not going to fix them. It's not going to change how you feel about your body. Because I know it's going to be a lot of young, maybe a lot of young men listening to this and thinking, you know, I don't feel comfortable in my body at the moment. Maybe they're in their early 20s. Maybe they're, you know, just teenagers and they're like, if I can get as big as possible,

then I will, you know, finally be able to feel comfortable in my skin. I think a lot of, like, I remember, I think I've seen a study the other day that, you know, body image issues in men is now surpassing women. And there's a lot of that kind of muscle dysphoria as well going on. So I suppose what advice would you have for any kind of young men who might be listening to this thinking that, you know, I need to get as big as possible in order to fix my problems? It's not going to work. And I agree.

I've not seen that study, but it doesn't surprise me. I mean, you're seeing the amount of young men, even adolescents, who are going down the road of steroids. you know and again this is just showing you that it's complete evidence that they need to be bigger it's a comparison i mean i i never lived through it so i can't i'm not going to sit here and say oh i understand because if they're if they're an adolescent age or early 20s they've grown up with social media so they've got a different type of like pressure and expectation compared to what I went through. I would honestly, and again, it kind of comes,

and I spoke about this on my post yesterday, I know I keep kind of referring to posts and stuff, but audit your feed, audit what you're consuming. If you feel that way about yourself, it's because you're being manipulated to feel that way. You know, you are seeing someone, someone is doing, things like steroids or maybe they're a high level

cross fit or power lifter bodybuilder, influencer or whatever you don't know what they what life they've got, you don't know what they're doing but you also do not know what issues they have because believe me most

of them will have body image issues most of them well have eating disorders or disorder eating and a lot of them will have self-esteem issues but they're using something like social media as a vehicle to promote and get some form of...

Exactly, except in validation for themselves. I think the paradox that people don't understand is that people think if I'm in better shape, I will be more content with my body where it usually ends up the opposite. The more

you try to get in... And it's not to say not to get in good shape or not to be healthy and get strong and like all these things can be a positive thing but it can also go to other way it's like when you constantly feel the need to improve every little critique of your body you're hyper-focused on your body and you're never content and therefore you never end up solving the problem that was the problem in the first place which was you weren't content with your body I totally agree with you there and the other thing I would kind of come back to as well as question it like you know why do

you need to be bigger? What's it going to change? How is it going to, how is it going to improve your life? How, how is it going to change how you feel right now? Like, are you all of a sudden going to enjoy who you are as a person and your personality because your chest is bigger? Like, it's not. Like, I can tell you right now. Well, I suppose if you're a 20 year old kid, that's probably your logic that, oh, if I have a bigger chest, bigger traps, bigger biceps, that girl will finally talk to me or I'll have the confidence to talk to that girl or whatever that reason is. Exactly. And like you said, I used to walk around DW Gem, like shoulders out with my gold gym vest on. Like a little peacock. You know? And I used to look at some of the lasses and think,

oh man she's hot eh um i like i wonder she she thinks i'm hot you know how you're going to find out by by talking to her but i didn't so it became this like weird suitful thing but again this kind of comes back to your body does not again it does like i would i would always highly encourage someone to get shit whatever that means like whatever that means to you um If you aspire to build your physique, great. But I would also encourage you to prioritize strength and cardiovascular health and doing things outside the gym, join communities, join non-fitness-based communities, like what you do, like a hiking group,

or like whatever that is. Like build your personality, become. become an interest in person, you know? I mean, because we've seen these people before. Oh, what do you do in your spare time? Oh, go to the gym? Oh, what about when you're not in the gym? Oh, do meal prep or watch videos on Ronnie Coleman or something. And it's like... Our favorite means. But it's like, well, what else is there? What else is that to you, you know?

And again, this is where I come back to like kind of flesh like be curious like be curious about yourself flesh things out is there something that you've always wanted to do and you've just never done it like why aren't you doing it like push yourself to do it if

like you said I mean where you get these young guys who go I'm going to make myself like irresistible to women cool then do some emotional and mental work you know like I think I think when you don't

understand the voice that you're trying to fail, that's when it can, it can become dangerous or you can kind of tread into that, that difficult. I totally agree with you. And if you, if you do these things hand in hand, you will enjoy the body you've got or you're developing, and you'll constantly be developing it. And it's not a, you know, Simon Seneck talks about this, where he talks about the infinite game.

Like, there's no rush. There's no rush. no rush. There's no rush to take steroids. There's no rush to do all this like mad shit and stuff like that. Just be better. Like if you've got an aspiration to get better at something like, how does that look like? How are you going to enjoy it? And like I said, how is it going to filter across into other areas of your life? You know? And like there's more to the, there's more to this stuff than like I said, having bigger glutes or a big deadlift or or whatever, it is awesome if you want to get better at these things. I still love it. I still love feeling shit at something or like right now. Like I'll just be honest. Right now I'm not happy

with my shoulders. And it's just because my training has changed slightly because of their travelling. But I've just went, oh, cool. Well, they're not how I'd like them to be. But I can change that. So let's change it. Let's like instead of just being unhappable, with them like let's go and adapt things and enjoy enjoy them a bit more you think that it's important for someone to then really embrace enjoying the process of getting better at something rather than just wanting to change how they look actually enjoying the process of you know being better in the gym better performance whatever it is yeah because you've got you've got different levers you know You can't pull all the levers at once.

You can only pull, you know, two or three at a time. So when you do that, there's going to be trade-offs. You know, if you, like I said, if you want to get better, like in your strength and, I don't know, like, said, you want to do a bit more journal and work or whatever, cool, that's two levers. They're your current non-negotiables at the moment. So that means there's going to be less time spent. Or maybe something other areas may have to be maintained. Some areas might get worse. But you have to be okay with that.

And again, this kind of comes down to the audit and accepting tradeoffs. It doesn't need to be forever. You know, I said to, I spoke with one of my clients this morning and we were talking about the process of programming. And I says programming can always be progressive. But it's looking at how to improve something. And I use the squat as an example. I says, look, if you want to get better at your squat,

then you can't just go in and do three sets of five forever. Like that's not going to work. If you do that, then you're going to have blind spots. So when you're doing programming over a year, you've got to look at different variations. You've got to look at reps and reserve work. you've got to look at load variations, rep schemes, pause work, double pause work, tempo work, front squats, back squats, high bar squats. I was like, these are all different tools that are going to keep you moving forward, but you're always going to be moving forward because you accept the trade-off by put placing your focus elsewhere for a number of weeks or months.

But by placing your focus there, you're then going to come. come back to what you originally enjoy doing and you're going to be much better at it. You said that you were on a quest to get your shit together in Latin America. Tell the listeners a little bit about that. What's the talk process behind that? You know what? Again, it was just pulling myself up. I mean, I'm, I kind of come back to what I said before about maintaining certain areas.

yeah, I was going to the gym three times a week and enjoying foods in certain areas and whatnot. When I was in Columbia, I noticed that I just, yeah, I felt uncomfortable. I came out of the shower one day and I caught myself in the mirror and I was like, oh, yeah, you're not looking too good at the moment, Roy. So how do you feel about that? And so I decided to go in a bit of a short-term diet. I think it was like three weeks. It was aggressive.

And the purpose of it was just to kind of rein in some behaviors. I mean, yeah, it was to drop some weight and lean out a bit, which it worked. But I needed to get a handle on some things. Like I said, some eating behavior, some organization, routine and whatnot. that and for me, I didn't want to go down the route of 12 or 16 weeks. I felt like I would be giving myself a pass. I would be given myself too much scope to flirt with, like, being relaxed. So I just went right, three weeks, let's go aggressive.

Again, I accepted the trade-off. The trade-off was mood and energy levels. But when I got to the end of it, I pulled in some things. I was like, right, okay, let's keep them tight. but when I got to Peru, I lived in Peru for two months, and life in Peru was a bit more chaotic. Not chaotic as in like, I was going out and taking drugs every night and stuff like that. It was chaotic because I wanted to explore. You know, I've loved this process of exploration, meeting people going on tours, cities, towns, whatever that looks like, going down.

and all these things. But Peru, it was, when I use the word chaotic, like every weekend, the tours were pretty crazy. There's no routine. Yeah, I was going up like mountains. I was struggling with altitude sickness, all these things. So I found it difficult to have the routine that I felt complimented me. And in that two-month period, I lived in four different accommodations. So I was uprooting myself every so often and I just thought, right, okay, I'm loving this. My time in Peru is incredible, but I can't keep this up. Like something needs, I need to get, I need to get a handle of this. So I was going to Bolivia for two weeks. I was only going to Bolivia to see the salt flats. And then I knew I was going to come here to Chile for two months.

So I went, right, let's use the two weeks in Bolivia. You know that you're only going there to see the salt flats. So the rest of the time, you're just going to be working, relaxing, whatever that is. So use that two weeks as a buffer to sit down and go, right, what needs to change? but not only what needs to change, what's important to me. So that's why I didn't rush it. I didn't sit down on a Sunday with a pen of paper and go, oh, this is what I think, this is what I'm going to avoid and this. I'm going to lean into this.

I use the two weeks. I use the two weeks to really, really audit things and slowly implement things. Like what's going to work well from a metric standpoint? How am I going to measure this? why do I need to focus on these things? What's it going to change? Is it meaningful to me? Is it going to make me feel better?

Is it going to improve my quality of life? Is it easy or easier? So when I came to Chile, that was in place. So all I needed to do was my first week in Chile go, right, let's get comfortable with Chile. What's my routine need to look like here? My shopping, my gym on my day-to-day basis, working day, what's going on with work, and take what I created in Bolivia and then just went,

right, in you go, that's it. So it really is the case of the reason I did it was just to have a better structure, have a better direction, improve my quality of life, you know, and make sure I'm getting good sleep so I can show up the next day and enjoy the gym, not showing up the next day and dragging myself into the gym. Not, I wanted to improve how I showed up at work as well, you know, like content creation. I noticed on some videos that I was created, I went, oh, that's not really me. You know, it is me, but it's not fully me because I'm forcing it. And I'm forcing it because I'm, my levels are lower, you know.

I wanted things to feel natural you know so the reason I'm doing that vlog is to show people that I'm not doing any mad shit I'm not going hey I'm going to do 75 hard whatever I'm just going hey this is my process this is how I'm thinking this is why this is what you can take from it

I'm not playing I'm not trying to do a sprint here I'm trying to improve my quality of life and I'm trying to I'm not I'm trying to create like micro wins that I can post on my social media or whatever. I'm trying to create consistent, ongoing multiple wins. And not just in my training, but in how I show up, like my personality, my emotional health, my mental health, and how I'm just enjoying life, you know, through overall integration.

What have you learned about yourself since living in South America? Dude. I trust myself. What do you mean by that? That I'm capable. I'm capable of anything. What I mean by that is I'm on my own here, man. No one's coming to save me.

and so this is this this is my 10th month being in Latin America and that process I've been in well not just like I've been in Spain Mexico Columbia Peru Bolivia and now Chile and then after Chile I'm going to be in Argentina every time I've got into a new place I'm starting I'm starting from scratch I've got no friends. No, no routine. I don't know the city or the town. I don't know how it works.

I don't know how the language works. I don't think people who haven't moved the way for a while, they don't realize how anxiety-inducing that can be. And you're doing it multiple times. Yeah, exactly. And even though they all speak Spanish here, or except for Brazil, Um, it's different Spanish. Like Chilean Spanish, mate, it's, it's like, I described it

recently as if, if you were a non-English speaker and you went to Glasgow, like, good luck, you know, the words are different, the phrases are different, the speed. Um, I've been Aberdeen de Surrey. Honestly, me, I'm, I'm, this is my third. week here and I've not I've only spoken to two people that I've genuinely understood them and I've went oh oh oh a conversation I understand amazing but I tell you what though even though I found it really difficult and I'm aware of it every single day I've pushed myself into interactions and I've went I need to be uncomfortable this is the only way I'm going to as you mentioned the word anxiety

I kind of come back to my first few weeks in Mexico I remember there was one nightmare that I was lying in my bed and I felt bad like I felt low I was way out of my depth that's how I felt I was like I don't know the food you know like if you go to like Spain for example there's familiarity there compared to Ireland or the UK

it. And when I got to Mexico, there's nothing. And I went, oh, I'm in the deep end here. And I've got, I've got, I don't know anyone. My Spanish was still raw, you know, so there was many, many things. And I felt very, very alone. I felt very vulnerable. I felt very exposed. And I actually went on to, what's the online therapy? Help, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think it's called Better Help, yeah. Better help, sorry, yes.

Yeah, I went on to their website, and I went through the application process. And I was like, I need help here. I really need help. And on the application process, it's got like a checkbox, and it says, check everything, how you feel. And I checked three of them.

And then I just stopped. And I looked at those three, and I went, right, that's how you feel right now. Like, you've got the tools here. You know how to navigate these feelings. You don't need a therapist. Like, you know what to do here. So you've just highlighted this.

It was almost like a form of journal and I was like, you've just highlighted this. Time to lean into it. Like, what are you going to do about it? And from then on me, I just, yeah, just like I said, every, I remember when I go to. Columbia, the speed of the language. I remember just thinking, oh, I've got, that was my first one

when I just thought, I'm going to have to keep doing this. I'm going to have to learn, relearn. But again, no one is going to do that for me. Like different food, different temper, like environments, how to meet people, how to be interested, how to be interested. Like, you're going to have to keep building relationships. And what I, one of the things I've loved about it is, I don't know about other people's experiences, but I've genuinely built some really solid relationships.

And that came down to just. Yeah, go ahead. No, that just really came down to, not just seen it as a, something as a distraction. I was like, oh, I value this person. do you also think that because you're on your own and you don't know anyone and you can't fall back into old behaviours of home that you really kind of show up as yourself yeah you have to yeah yeah i think you have to um like if you're willing to get the best out of something whether it's a connection and experience you're you're going to have to expose yourself to that.

Like if you, if you walk around with a mask on, like, we know this. Like there's so many folk that are too scared to be themselves. You look at social media, the amount of people that are just copying each other's content, hi guys. Like, oh, it's like, that's not you, you know, like, you're just another fitness person copying someone else because you think they're successful. So that's what you've got to do or how to act to be successful. or to be liked to be validated.

It was like, the easiest way to be validated is by showing up to yourself. And I think as well, when you're back home and, you know, you've had similar relationships with friends and family for years upon years, you can fall into a certain character that you play because that's who you've always been. And then it's difficult not to show up as that person, let's say, when you're out with that people, but when you're on your own in a different country,

you know, you've known to fall back on. Like, you've known to order your food for you. You've to order your own food. You've known to talk for you. You're like, your friend's not going to talk for you.

You have to go up and speak to that person, whether that's whoever it is. Like, you were on your own. So, like, you're exposed as much as you can be. Yeah, the, the example there was the food, you know,

because I want to experience the different foods in different countries. but the only way that I'm going to experience that is if I go to a restaurant or a market or a stall and order it. And again, that requires just exposing yourself. You have to go to that place. I mean, you've seen me, mate. I'm 6'3. I weigh like 110 kilos.

I can't hide here. It's like everywhere I go, I get stared at it. And I tell you what's cool, though, the people in Latin America, like I've only come across like two shit experiences so far. But everyone is super, super friendly and they're curious. So almost not so much here in Santiago, because again, it's a major city. But the other countries and cities I've been to, honestly, there was almost every single day I have someone.

wanting to speak to me. You know, I'd be in a gem and folk will come up and they'll speak to me and I'll be in the middle of a workout and I'd be like, oh shit, what did they just say? I was like, well, they're kind enough to come up to the grunt, you know, like speak to them. So sometimes I'd have experiences where folk would then say, can I get a photo with you?

And I'm like, Jesus, I'm like, what? When I was in Columbia, they kept on coming up to me I kept on saying what is it what is what is what is what is milk in in Spanish gang

uh kaka or something they kept said to be and then it was in uh what's what's the

what's the what's the what's the the uh beside the Caribbean island again oh and

the main yeah in Colombia the city uh Cartagena I was in Cartagena and they all came up

and they all started taking picture with me because I hadn't seen a white person and so long. That was hilarious. But again, this comes back to you have to trust yourself. Yeah.

Like you're, oh, there's a speech. I love it, man. I love it. I watched this Brunei Brown video probably, probably about six months ago. I cannot remember the videos. An edit that I came across on YouTube.

And she references is oh, it's one of the old American presidents. Ah, that's going to annoy me now. Anyway, so there's this speech called The Man in the Arena.

Are you flying out with it? And she quotes it. And I went, and Googled it and I've just never forgotten it. And again, the man in the arena just summarizes this. Like you have to be exposed.

You have to be in the arena. You have to take the hits. Like the crowd wanting you to fail, you being beaten down, but you've got to get up. And what does that mean when you get up? Like, what does it do? Like, we've seen these movies like Rocky

and Rocky Four, where the Russians hate him. But Rocky is the man the arena and he fights back and then the crowd changes they start chanting for a rocket like that's a like it's a it's a hollywood example but but if you're doing that every single day like i said i mean i've i had experiences where i had conversations with people and they were shit to me and i thought oh man you know like i thought my spanish was better than that and i can't believe that happened but then 10 minutes later I would have an amazing interaction

but it didn't deter me from having the next interaction I was like I have to keep having them yeah you have to keep facing that rejection or whatever it is and and keep showing up and then you realise you're not made of glass

but what it does is it hardens your determination it hardens your resolve like it it brings you out more, you know, people, people go inside, people, people, people shield up, you know, people, oh, I can't experience this again, I'm not willing to, you know, you see people going into certain gems or whatever that looks like, and they're the hard enough or they think they're

hardening up, you know, they watch like a David Coggins video or something, oh, I've got to stay hard and stuff, and it's like, no, no, no, you've got to do the opposite, you've got to keep open up, you've got to remove the armor, and then you've, you've got to, you've got to, realize that the armor that you're developing is, is you, like your values, your principles. And then the more that you stand up and the taller that you stand, people become curious of you because you're not copying everyone else. You're not wearing the same thing. You're not copying quotes or making the same reels or whatever.

You're doing something different because it's you and you're very, very unique. and when people see that, that's where people become curious. They're like, who's this person? And honestly, and genuinely, that comes back to the trust. Like, I had to, and I'll continue doing it. Just keep trusting myself. Roy, I have one more question for you and then we'll wrap it up. And that question is, how do you define success right now in your life?

Okay. I'm going to touch this to a conversation I had this week. I was asked if I had any dreams recently. And I never thought about it. And I thought, oh, I cannot remember the last time I had a dream that I remember. You know, when you wake up and you're like, a weird dream, you know, like, I had mayonnaise

like all over my body, naked in a field. Like, what was that? Yeah? And Arnold Schwarzenegger was judging me. It's like, how much vodka did I have last night? But I realized that I hadn't

had a dream in months, like two or three months, give or two or three months, give or two. Now, before before I left, I was having vivid dreams, like almost every night. And I remember one particular week where I had three dreams

where I was being killed. And I spoke to my therapist about it and she said, oh, I'm not saying this is what it is, but this is what could be attached to is because you are getting ready to change your life, you're grieving, you're killing the old version of yourself,

you're killing the old life, the life that you're, it no longer serves you, and the person in that life no longer needs to be there. So you're grieving this and that could be attached to that. And it was quite interesting

because the reason I tell you that is you know, I don't know if this is factor or not, but this is something I came across was dreams are often thoughts that you're avoiding. You know, if you've got stresses, concerns, fears or whatever, when you're going to navigate in your day, you can just ignore it. You know, I'll just watch another episode or I'll go for a run or whatever. But when you're dreaming, your subconscious comes to fruition.

Don't quote me at that, but that's what I've read in there. Now, the reason I, why I, this is important to me right now is when I realized I hadn't really had a dream and a number of months I thought oh it's because I feel happy and I'm showing up like I'm actually showing up and it's like I said to you before I'm just pushing myself I'm going and having the conversations I'm going into the new neighborhood or trying the new experience like the tour over the weekend like this weekend I'm going skiing. I've never skied before in my life, you know?

And when I looked at like so many photos and albums and stuff, I'd realize the number of experiences I've had since leaving have been enough that some people will never do them in a lifetime. And it is, it's attached to that. I'm genuinely showing up for myself. Like really, in many ways. and it's just important to me. So coming back to the original question,

like that's what's making me, like I just want to keep moving in that direction. Like there's things that I want in life. There's things that I deeply want in life. And I've sat down and really thought about this. Business-wise, like what I want to do with the coaching business, where I want to take that.

I've been working with a business coach over the last five months and he's really, really helped me with that. And I see it, like I see it taking shape and it's moving in the direction I want to and I'm like, shit, this is actually happening, eh? But I think that doesn't happen. If A, I'm not working with Mike,

but B, I'm not being myself. Like, you can, it kind of comes back to what we said before you can work with a coach but you have to do the work and i'm doing i'm working with him and i'm doing the things that he's we're agreeing on i'm also doing this stuff on the other side of the fence do you think if people aren't content with their life it's because they're not showing up for themselves or not doing the the scary thing the thing that they're avoiding i think i think it's attached to it you know no no one's not saying that you need to go and do a skydive or or whatever like that could mean anything you know like it could be going along

through like a live drawing class because you find art you've got a creativity thing you don't need to be michael angelo but it's going something like if you're not again this isn't life advice i'm not qualified but i mean that's that's i got sick of the life that i was doing living like i genuinely did yeah i left I left a relationship that I realized I was in it because a triggered and

trauma based person chose to be in it. That's nothing against my ex-partner. This, like, I chose that. There was a version of me that chose that and it was an unhealthy version of me. I would look at

like, what are you doing? And what is it attached to? You know? like the people you're spending time with you know some of the friends that I well I say they were friends that I genuinely valued when I was back in Scotland you see since I came away

I just realized it weren't and it's things like that and I thought if I was still there I would still be spending time with them so what would who's having this conversation right now wouldn't exist and that goes back to

that essentially even goes back to the dreams and mourning the past version of yourself that was about to be gone. I mean, like I said, there's things in life I want, like business and personal and relationship wise and whatnot, but I genuinely, I don't hope for it now. I don't go like, oh, I now go, hey, I'm putting blocks in place. Yeah. And, and, and I'm not in a hurry for.

it. I'm patient. Like, I believe that, I genuinely believe that I move in a direction. And when those opportunities, certain opportunities come or whatever that looks like, I'll be like, cool. Like, I worked for this and it's happened. I'm not, it's not the 10 kilos and 8 weeks thing. You know, I'm not going, oh, it needs to happen in the next couple of months. Oh, I've worked hard for this. I'm like, cool, I'm working hard. Keep working hard.

You're essentially enjoying the process. so not worried about the outcome, which is where everyone hopes to be. And I think that's it. And again, can I come back to just, I don't wish to be happy because happy is a finite thing. It's a lightning and a glass. Lightening is a lighten of glass? But I do want to live a fulfilled life, though.

You know, I want to keep whatever. that looks like. Today, there's conversation, going to the gym and doing some reading and whatnot. Tomorrow will be something else, you know. Love that. Roy Ritchie, where can people go if they want to reach out and ask you for advice,

want to have a chat with you, want to reach out in terms of coaching. Where can they go to find you? The main two places would be Instagram and Facebook. I'd give my email, but do people use email? I mean, I'll give it anyway. So my email is Roy at RX2Fitness.com.

Okay. My Instagram is same rx2.fitness and Facebook. I think it's just RX2 Fitness. Or you could just type in my name, Roy Ritchie, R-T-C-H-E, because people don't seem to recognize there's a T in Ritchie. I mean and I'm like you I'm on these things most days

and I love a conversation it's called social media for the reason yeah 100% Roy thank you very much for today I always enjoy our chats and I hope you can continue to do them going into the future as well thanks for watching

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