The Uneducated PT Podcast - #53 Orla Swan - The Health Hun

Episode Date: October 5, 2024

In this episode of the Uneducated PT Podcast we speak to Orla Swan a nutritionist, health and trauma coach. In this episode Orla teaches me about PCOS, IBS and disordered eating. Expect to learn how PCOS affects mental health, what some of the misconceptions are, what lifestyle treatments can manage PCOS, if IBS is treatable, some of the worst advice Orla has seen online and much more.

Hello and welcome to the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carlo Rourke. The goal of this podcast is to bring on interest and knowledgeable people from all walks of life, learn a little something from each conversation and for you, the listener, just learn something from each episode. So don't forget to subscribe to the channel, press the box below, show some support and I'll see you on the next episode. Orla, will you just tell us a little bit about the work that you do at the moment? Yeah, yeah.

So I am initially a nutritionist, kind of transitioned more into health coaching now. and then I have recently qualified, sorry, last year in trauma coaching and I'm studying intimacy and relationship coaching as well which is a pivot I didn't think that I would ever be doing. So that's a big pivot. So where did this all come from? So I would have started in science and thought that my career was in pharmaceuticals and that was literally everything that was drilled into me

for go to college, get a degree, da-da-da-da. But through my own health issues, I was basically, I just felt very unseen and unheard with the medical system. So I just started learning about my own health. So I have PCOS, IBS, I had eating disorders and unprocessed trauma and everything in between. Don't make it easy for yourself. I know, I know. We've lived a rough life.

I'm joking. But yeah, I just had to kind of figure a lot of things out for myself. So it was true my own understanding then of combining science. And then I started studying nutrition purely for my own understanding. Like it wasn't to do. So you didn't want to be a nutritionist when you were going off. This was not on my radar at all. So I started studying it and just wanting to learn about myself.

And then once I started learning about it, I was like more people need to know about this. So yeah, I just started a blog. So you were your own client essentially? Pretty much, yeah, yeah. So I started a blog and it was like an angry, rant and style blog at first. It was like the medical system needs to change. People need to pay attention to this, da-da-da-da. And this was back when people didn't really have social media.

It wasn't that big. So my friends were like, why are you being like a blogger? like what is this that you're trying to do? And yeah, even back then I was... Why you so angry all that? I know, but it was more so that it was like frowned upon to be an influencer and it was like this real separation rather than like...

Especially in Ireland, especially in Dublin. Yeah, yeah. I still see that. Oh my God. Now that I'm on like the homepage feed for TikTok I'm seeing comments and I'm like, oh my God, people are so mean still. But anyways.

But yeah, it was through my own journey basically and through my own healing that I was like, okay, I feel like I have the passion to help people with this. And it just went from there, really. Okay, so let's break down all them things, all right? We'll start with PCOS if people don't know what it is. Can you explain it a little bit? Yeah, so it's polycystic ovarian syndrome.

So it's a syndrome which means it's a collection of symptoms. So, you know, not that you would have it, but you could have it, I could have it. And it would mean that you could have a very different manifestation of symptoms physically, on your bloods and so on, but we could still be classified as having the same thing. So essentially there's like, the diagnostic criteria has shifted a little bit, I think,

but you need to have two out of the three, which is either the appearance of cysts on your ovaries with an ultrasound, the physical manifestation of the androgens, the high androgens, which is like hair growth, hair loss, acne, oily skin, sweat, all those kind of things. Did you have all them symptoms?

Yeah, I still couldn't struggle with it sometimes. So when I have like a flare, which I'm having at the minute because we're just a little bit chaotic in life right now She's moving your whole life across the world

literally haven't had a base for nine months now but yeah no I can have a fair from time to time but it used to be really severe really severe so I would have like

chronic acne for a long time really had a lot of body dysmorphia and because of insulin resistance when it comes to PCOS I would have struggled with binge eating as well but you didn't know that this was the actual cause of a lot of this no no no

So yeah, that's it. You can also, someone might not have the physical manifestation as well, but they may see it on the bloods, so they might see a chemically. And then the third one is absent or regular menstrual cycles or absent or regular ovulation. So that can be a misconception that I have got my periods and my, do I have BCOS, but it could be that they're not ovulating. They could have strong PMS symptoms, estrogen dominance,

there's a few different things that can manifest for them as well. So yeah, there's, The things that I focus on is really like inflammation in the body, insulin resistance, stress, which people don't like to hear about because even myself, I was so in denial. I used to be like running around doing full-time work, full-time college, trying to train five, six days a week, trying to go out on the weekends, on the piss three nights a week and do it all. And like I was had insomnia, I had severe acne, hair loss. I was tiny and I literally could all I could see was like my blood stomach and this is like a really common thing that I'm seeing when people is like they want to get rid of the PCOS pouch and I was even I did a presentation for a coach and her clients

recently and it was like the question that was asked how do we get rid of the pouch and I'm just like oh my god so yeah there's a lot of um I suppose your body composition can shift with insulin resistance and with stress so that's obviously something that people need to manage but it's this like punishment to try and shrink themselves to get rid of this or to distort their body in some way when actually it's to look at the hormones and go that little bit deeper and often that means slowing down and if there any anything like myself and they're so identified which like stress and fitness it can actually go against everything that they think that they need to do to get this body and strive for their worth and everything in between as well so how would someone know if they

actually have PCOS so they'd have to get diagnosed yeah for a doctor Yeah. Okay. And let's say then, okay, you have someone who knows that they have PCOS. What are some, I know you touched on a little bit there, but what are some kind of lifestyle changes that they need to do or you help them to do in order to essentially feel better about themselves and to reduce these symptoms? So first would be with diet. So we'd have to look at their blood sugars and really trying to balance around that. So a big thing is like cut carbs out. But like red flag to anyone who, tells you to do that because you need carbohydrates as you know for energy and for exercise recovery even for your thyroid as well so people do these like extreme diets which can actually cause stress in itself and if we go back to the three criteria of what we want to be supporting with PCOS stress is like number one so a lot of these things is like this is what you do and you eat clean and you do all these different things but a lot of people are so distressed with the relationship

of foods mentally and emotionally so that like defeats the purpose basically so we'd come back to having a look at very, very simple things, like not skipping a breakfast, very simple things like that, eating frequently enough, looking at your protein, and swapping your carbohydrates to be higher fiber sources of carbohydrates, yeah. So it's not that we're demonising carbs, but it's actually that we want to support having a more sustained release of blood sugars rather than demonising having a release of blood sugars to begin with. So there's a big trend on not raising your blood sugars at all on social media. I don't know if you've seen that. Yeah, okay but yeah so the yeah it's just like really there's a lot of fear mongering

basically and there's no need so that would be the first one we'd look at supplementation as well and for anyone listening get yourself on a nose at all if they haven't like that they need to have that basically a few other ones dependent on some different factors as well and what else we'd have to look at inflammation so most likely their gut so people are again obsessed with the gut at the moment and I'm loving it but then There's a lot of conflicting things and a lot of... Not like social media. Oh, God.

Yeah. There's just, there's so many, like, I don't even know what to call them, but every time there's a new thing, there's a new trend. And I'm just like, oh my God, can we just stop for a sec? Because it's creating a lot of health and anxiety as well. So it's like something that I used to kind of like firefight and I'm actually like, I can't because there's always something new. That it's like, let's just encourage people and empower people with the right information, you know.

So yeah, we'd have to release. of digestive issues such as constipation, bloating, flatulence, diarrhea. Lots of people have that as their normal symptoms. It's not that PCOS causes digestive issues or digestive issues causes PCOS, but there is a connection between the two and with hormones in general. So there will be a lot of people probably listening to this who might be diagnosed with PCOS and might be wondering they want to lose weight and think that they can't because they have PCOS. What's the research around that?

So when you are, when you've got PCOS and when your body is metabolically adapted, we can have issues with losing waste. And unfortunately, like I mentioned a minute ago, it's like throw everything at it, cut your carbs right down, try and over exercise, creates more stress. Yeah. Creates more metabolic adaptations. The way I describe this is like your body is going into a recession and going into an audit situations like right lads we need to make some cutbacks we need to go into the digestive

department cut things down there going to the hormone departments cut that right down because if you think about it as well the menstrual cycle is like made for reproduction right and if the woman can't actually support herself in terms of calories that's survival mode kind of activated as such and so it doesn't make logical sense for survival to reproduce and make those hormones so it's a preservation of energy or conservation of energy process that happens. So I actually am like, let's just park weight loss for a hot minute

and let's actually have a look at your hormones and slowing down and nourishing your body and actually not beating yourself home. Is that a really difficult thing to do when you have clients coming in that probably want to come in for weight loss and then the last thing that they probably need is to be concentrating on weight loss?

No, I think people that come to meet clients-wise they know what I'm kind of talking about for a while. So they kind of have concealed my content, for a while there's still some of them that do and but they're very much on board with I think a lot of people have shifted towards right let me put my health first yeah let's focus on health rather and wait yeah yeah um is there a common connection between you spoke about a disorderly and is there a common connection between a lot of people who have PCOS and and engaging in disorderly and big time big time especially with the um

I want to call it the bigger body phenotype of PCOS it's technically called the obese type of PCOS but don't like that for obvious reasons. But yeah, so most commonly with clients that are in that kind of higher BMI range, every single doctor experience they will have is like you need to go lose weight. And they're like, I have had clients who have extreme levels of disorder eating and restrictive. They don't even eat food and they're not believed. And I don't know about you, but I see in the fitness industry, it's like, oh, well, clients are like secretly eating and like they're.

they just need to eat less and move more. And it actually defeats the purpose of what's happening hormonally and metabolically. Creates more stress. Yeah. And it just creates this like shame that like there's something inherently wrong with them. They're broken. And then they're self-sabotage. And it just actually doesn't give them any sort of encouragement or compassion to like get their body back to doing what it can do naturally.

It just keeps them stuck. And then they go to the doctors to try and seek support with that. Or something completely different. I've seen clients going with different medical issues altogether, different symptoms, and they're like, oh, well, if you lose weight, then that's going to resolve your issue. So this feeds into the relationship of food, disordered eating, body image, the whole works. And then also I need to mention the leaner type of PCOS. So the way I kind of see it is there's no one weight or size or anything like that that is optimal for PCOS.

But if you are kind of on extreme end of the scale, that's when you will see your symptoms flare at the most. So that's where you'll see it kind of out of control as such. So the leaner type of PCOS, both can actually struggle with appetite, right? Both can struggle with low appetite. And again, it's the shame of those in a bigger body aren't necessarily believed. But those in a leaner type of PCOS can possibly more so identify with trying to be like quite fit and trying to overdo exercise so that they're not realizing the stress that's impacted there. They might be skipping food as well and that impacts their blood sugars as well.

So yeah those need to possibly gain a little bit of weight and there's a whole conversation around that as well What was your experience with disorder eating and and how did you Help yourself to come out of that? So I had a good few eating disorders along the way We why I get one when you can do a feel it and get a girl like does them all Literally so I would have started with It's interesting as well when I look back. I would have started thinking it was about health so because of my IBS, I would have thought that I was trying to restrict foods, which I was,

trying to figure out what my trigger foods were. So there was an element of me trying to prevent issues with IBS and figure that out. I didn't have a diagnosis of PCOS yet at that point. But I also just would have been absolutely brainwashed by diet culture. Yeah. So what I started with like starving myself before the night's out, all the gruelies did that. And it was like before you go out to fit in a body con dress, you have to have a flat. stomach, da-da-da-da. I used to watch America's Next Top Model when I was like fucking nine years old or something, honestly. But yeah, and it would have then evolved to binge eating, purging what laxatives as well. So I was actually given a laxate prescription by

the doctor from my IBS, not checking if I was okay with my relationship with food. And that would have caught us a loss of distress as well. Then... Did your parents know? What did your parents know about this? Had in a bruise, no. They know education around it. No, no, no. And their relationship of food wasn't in a good place as well. Yeah. As you probably know, you can see the, like, how it's like...

The generational diet and got knocked down a few, yeah. And it's not until I'm doing what I'm doing now, that they actually listen to me. And it's funny how they take to listening to my Instagram before they're actually like, oh, she's going to make sense there. Instead of I'm trying to tell them what to do, you know? Well, like, that's, that's, that's, that's a good sign that, like, more people that are talking about these kind of things, the more people that get educated on it, the less harm they do to, you know, yeah, definitely. As generations go down.

Absolutely, absolutely. What was I saying there? But, so yeah, I actually would have then found calorie counting. I've been like, oh my God, if it fits your macros, this is going to solve all my problems. I did an eight-week challenge with some fitness people, and I thought that this was going to solve all my problems because they had like very naturopathic approaches to things. as well so I thought maybe they'll help me with my IBS and everything in between but it just kicks out of this journey of thinking I was eating more food but still in very very low calories

and everything was controlled like I remember making these little yogurt pots with like these rice crispy puffs and I'd weigh everything to the absolute tea let you take out one little puff if it was over it was really really bad hyper focused on every single detail like my social occasions everything anything that would you even go out on social occasions? or would you? I would but I could bring fucking lunchboxes of food

with me and everything like so bad but I would also skip food and like drink like low calorie drinks I was drinking a lot then as well like a lot of coping was with alcohol as well

so there was a lot of obvious issues when it comes to a heating disorder deeper issues but yeah I remember so vividly this was like my rock bottom moment but the moment

that changed everything for me I did that eight week challenge along the way I got so much validation, so much compliments of like, oh my God, you're tiny and you look so small and you look so good and you're so motivated and disciplined and all these were just feeding everything for me. And then it was like this last photo I was taken for the final transformation and I was fucking depressed. I remember going on a binge cycle then for the next few weeks and just feeling

so low and so vulnerable that I was like this, this rock bottom moment obviously but this realization, this breakthrough from that breakdown, that this was not it. This was just not what was going to make me happy. This was not what was going to give me whatever I was chasing. I was chasing happiness. I was chasing love from other people, I suppose, because I didn't have any within myself. But then it started that I was like, okay, let me try. I had no period, of course, at this point as well. It's like, let me try regain my periods. Let me try, resolve. What made you, you know, come to the conclusion that, okay, let me try. none of this is working and I need to regain my period and all these other things.

It was honestly just a light bulb moment. So for a lot of people and a lot of clients I work with, it can take time to actually feel safe enough to actually move away from those behaviours and habits. So you weren't actually getting any kind of influence from outside perspectives, like the coach that you would have need that you are now to... No. I do not recommend doing what I did. Everything I've done done by myself. But a lot, there is, like, I see it even now that there is a lot of people who are trying to fix their relationship with food and body image with a five-week transformation or a photo shoot or whatever it is.

Yeah. Not realising that, you know, getting, to dig skin, body fat isn't actually going to solve the problem that they want. This was what my influence was as well. It was all bodybuilding and competing and all. I was even going to do that at some point. And, like, that was the world around then. It was all around 2017 that I came to a head. and I don't know where I came up with the

like sudden hyperfixation with hormones it just wasn't even talked about that much then but I just suddenly wanted to regain my period it was like maybe I heard about it back then and I just kind of followed that began to gain a bit more weight saw more strength in the gym and saw more freedom and happiness

and just it was summer and I just began to like loosen the reins a little bit and just say yes to things and like my spark was back I remember a big thing was like my sex driver's back as well. I was like, oh my God, what was I missing? And my period came back and it was just like this moment of like, okay, this is, this is fine, but then started the PCOS symptoms. So because my hormones were so suppressed for so long, we didn't, I didn't

know that I had this diagnosis basically. So then started the acne and I was on this beginning self-love journey and then my whole appearance was shattered. One problem solved and other problem arises. Yeah, yeah. But it was. meant to happen and I have that like every single aspect covered when it comes to understanding my clients and so yeah I see a lot of coaches and it's just like just do this and just do this and it's made me go so much deeper with emotions and the nervous system because I see how deep-rooted those issues were for me it's not just about your diet it's not just about like eating drinking or having

supplements or some hormone concoction of some sort there's it's so much deeper than that. And I think it, you might get it as well, but it icks me out when people like simplify things on social media. And for some people as well, there's a lot of conflicting things between PCOS and IVS and fat loss as well and disordered eating. There's such a great area and someone might be like, okay, I'm going to do this, what this person's saying online and not see that there's so much more that they need individualised to support them. So what advice would you have for someone who was trying to repair their relationship with food and body image who have shown symptoms of disorder eating?

So one thing I would start with is like your content that you consume. So do you consume content that literally feeds these beliefs and feeds these behaviours? And I'll literally get my clients to do an audit and have a look at what they're consuming. Even if it's something to do with food, if it's to do with just people that make them feel kind of unworthy because their lifestyle is making them compare in other ways or whatever. So that's what I'll get them to start doing and having a look at the conversations they're happening in their life, having a look at their behaviours. Sorry, I skipped off the obvious one working with someone that can support them with that

journey. So working with a coach. And working with a coach that you kind of touched on it there a minute ago, not a coach that's talking about supporting your relationship with food, but it's actually a challenge or a six-week fat loss thing. You actually need to park weight loss for a hot minute. and this sends like fear into clients so much literally like they shit themselves and it's like you don't need to go and gain 50 kilos for you to your relationship with food you don't

actually need to do something it's the control right yeah it does it's it's it's a fear of loss of control isn't it yeah so so working with someone who actually understands that on a deeper level with the nervous system is going to support bringing you through that journey versus someone that just tells you to try harder I had a client come to me recently just stick to your calories just stick to your calories it's not that difficult like what's your problem but this was the mentality and she had all of this shame within herself that she's broken and she just can't do it can't stick to it and she had the fear of transitioning away as is the journey for most people transitioning away thinking something would something terrible would happen and it's actually within like literally within two months she's

like oh my god i've got freedom back in my life i've got so much more capacity mentally and emotionally to be in my relationships and be present and they're not beating myself up and it's the thing that people forget with relationship with food and body image is when you were in that state of fear and control all the time, you are not going to see yourself in the perspective of what everyone else sees. You have this distorted version of yourself. There may be cortisol there and like water retention and you could literally see stress in my face. My face was so puffy. So it wasn't that I needed to lose all of this weight. It was actually I needed to pull back and de-stress. And it's this like light bulb moments that a lot of people will receive.

So would you say then that the number one thing in terms of If we related it back to PCOS The number one thing that you would start with with clients is Trying to reduce that stress of them trying to lose way or look a certain way Or they're just the stresses in their lives I don't know if I could give them one number one thing Because there is those three factors and they all coincide with inflammation With relation, sorry

inflammation, stress and insulin resistance. And the thing is, so although I'm kind of come up with three topics or three categories or whatever, three areas of focus, the way I do coaching is like it's all seamlessly connected, do you know? So we're working on the relationship with food, but as we're doing that, we're also incorporating. So I work with the inclusive mindset, which is just helping clients move away from restriction and adding in food and having this new language of like, I'm going to add this in because it's healthy for me. Yeah, it's like a spiral down. words or a spiral upwards it's like okay you're you're more relaxed in terms of your

food decisions so now you're less stress so now you know you're starting to reduce symptoms and it can go the other way as well then it's a knock on effect yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well then let's show in another another issue then so you also have ibs tell me a little bit about that or can you explain it for anyone that might not know what you're talking about yeah so irritable bowel syndrome is um again a syndrome so it has a collection of symptoms you typically have ibsc ibsd or IBS mixed. So that can be based on having predominantly constipation,

predominantly diarrhea, or a mixture of both. And it's a gut brain disorder. So it's connected to three areas I'll focus on is your gut brain connection, your gut microbiome, and gut motility as well. So again, when I was diagnosed,

no information. I think it's getting better, but the way it was diagnosed was like colonoscopy, very enjoyable experience. Don't eat caffeine or chocolate. That's it. Like off your pop.

And you had this on top of body image issues as well, which I presume didn't help. No, constantly bloated. Like, not bloated, distended, like, severe, severe distension, so painful as well. And this is the thing with IBS and PCOS is chronic pain. So it's not just psychological, like, people are actually, like, it's connected to your mental health and ill health, I should say. So, you know, there's so much, it can be overwhelming for people, do you know, of, like, where the fuck do I actually even start? But yeah, so again, the connection with stress and your nervous system is really, really important for IBS. And this is where relationship with food is so, so important because literally you've heard of the placebo effect before.

So the nocebo effect is the opposite, where you think, so placebo is you think something will benefit you and, you know, you'll take this miracle drug and it might actually just be psychological benefits, you know? Nocebos, you can actually convince yourself that something's going to harm you to the point where you will physically manifest symptoms. So they've done research on this to prove that this is actual thing. So this is how powerful your mind is. So people underestimate this. They're like, oh, well, I need to find the food that's going to trigger me and remove that. And it's like this never-ending list of like, that was triggering me, that was triggering me, that was triggering me. The fucking intolerance test that people do as well.

They're a scam for any one list in case you don't know. But yeah, basically people will come to me with this very short list of foods that they think they can tolerate and everything else is a trigger. So we'll actually spend so much more time looking at safety and feeling like this food isn't going to be so distressing and cause a reaction within them as well To support that gut brain connection. Well this goes back to even what what we said about PCOS as well It's the same thing probably with IBS and relationship with food like the more anxiety you have around food decisions The more it's going to bring on your symptoms as well Absolutely absolutely so this is the thing clients would like okay I'm ready for a food diary Let's have a look at this straight off bat I'm like no we actually want to look at laying the foundations for

I don't look at trigger foods straight away unless there's obvious ones. So like artificial sweeteners are typically a FodMap food and will typically cause digestive issues for most people with digestive issues. I don't mean anyone else.

So I'd be like first to go if you're having your protein flavour drops, if you're having your monster, if you're having whatever else because they're trying to do low calorie, let's swap them out and actually eat some sugar, which is not going to be the devil.

is not going to actually harm you or kill you the way that they think it will. So that's a big thing for people is to create safety around sugar and understand context. Context is so important, as you know, with nutrition and, like, personal context. So you could have, possibly have artificial sweetness

have no issues. I could have that can of monster right now and I could be in bits for days. I'm glad I didn't laugh at you monster now. Do you know what? And I think the big thing about IBS is that it can feel like it's at you ruling your life and controlling you.

But a big thing I say with clients is like, try your best most of the time. Make aligned and form decisions. I can make a decision to have a kind of monster now, but I have to deal with that myself and be okay with that versus what typically happens is shame because they think I'm eating this, I'm doing this to myself.

And then there tends to be binge eating or emotional eating that comes with that as well. So it's just very overwhelmed and very distressing for them, unfortunately. Yeah, again, it's a spiral then words. You feel shame, you feel stressed. Your symptoms come on. Yeah. So what you touched on, obviously, the first thing that you do is essentially tried to reduce that stress

and reduce that anxiety around them food decisions when it comes to IBS. What would you do down with a client to help to improve the quality of their life? Yeah, so we'd have a look at nervous system regulation and meditation, all these different things. And most of these types of clients are running in their flight or flight, so they're running on adrenaline. So the idea of slowing down is I am absolutely allergic. to that. I'm not doing meditation. Doesn't work for me. You get a lot of pushback from clients. Yeah, absolutely. I'm like, just try.

Let's look at this. So that's really, really important. And I used to underestimate that as well. I used to just think, oh, yoga's for hippies and blah, blah, blah, not realizing the impact that it has in my body. How long did it take you to figure out these things to help treat yourself? Oh, God. So I was diagnosed with IBS. I think in 2017 or 2016. 2016 and I had it for a year

and 2017 was the year that came to a head for me with my eating disorder 2018 was the first year that I remember feeling calm and having like reduced digestive issues so I think there's about a two year period of me trying to figure things out and I remember reading the gut brain connection book which is my first book on

like obviously science was my degree so I would have been into science and research and all that kind of things no one mentioned the gut brain connection to me So it was like this fucking lightbulb moment for me because I was constantly looking at food, different supplements, taking aschwaganda, Tori and all these different things.

Constantly chasing to find something that is actually like, okay, let's just switch off for a sec. Let's just slow down. Now, diet does play a role, so like fiber is really important and different fiber types. So some people will have an imbalance between soluble fiber and insoluble and soluble fiber as well.

And then we do need to have a look of FODMAPs. But before we go, this is where this is kind of controversial in people's opinion, they'll go and look at the FODMAP diet first, which is highly, highly restrictive and causes quite a lot of issues with relationship with foods. And if you also then remove a lot of the gut diversity, sorry, if you remove the nutrients that are supporting that good diversity, that can cause issues in itself as well. So I actually work on inclusion first, set on the foundation first, lowering stress first, adding in supplements, the right fibre types,

relationship with food, all that good stuff. And then we'll have a lot of look at restriction. Yeah, because like you said, just reducing the stress will probably reduce the symptoms anyway. Half the symptoms, they're gone. And it's like this miraculous thing that happens, but it's not. Rather than making it difficult than saying that you can't have this, this and this, you can only go on a carnivore diet or whatever this. Yeah. But I would also argue that you can't accurately describe, you can't accurately, accurately say that that's a true trigger food. Yeah. If someone has chronic constipation or diarrhea. Yeah. Because there's inflammation and distress there. So how can you say that there's too many things going to? There's too many things going

on to isolate it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so obviously inclusion first, reducing stress, reducing anxiety,

and then after that, what needs to happen? If symptoms continue? If symptoms continue, it's the triggers. Or it's deeper, work mentally and emotionally. So there's supplements as well,

so I always recommend a magnesium supplement. So depending on what type of IBS, there'd be a different form. either bisglycinate or citrates nobody get oxides do not get unoxide form that can cause diarrhea in itself so yeah

I think it's really about the client their consistency in their diet their blood sugars can also play a role as well your blood sugars if they drop if you're skipping meals if you're infrequent that can cause a rise in cortisol cortisol in itself creates stress creates digestive issues as well

so there's a lot of overlap a lot of things that can help How can people figure out if they have IBS or they're just bloating from certain foods that they're eating? Yeah. So bloating is not IBS. So you have to have the cramp in and the flatulents. And it has to be for a specific time period, basically,

because obviously someone could get field poisoning and it's not IBS. So they've updated the criteria, but it's the realm criteria if people want to have a look. But it's like the frequency is, I think, like three times a month or something like that. So it's the flatulence that's kind of, what's the word I'm looking for

significant no what's the word that it's like found in IBS I don't know I don't know distinctive distinctive significant anyway we're wrong with it it's basically the flatulence and the cramping that makes it different

so someone could have chronic constipation chronic diarrhea and it could be a different issue altogether yeah so you could have those symptoms and then also the cramping and the flatulence that goes with it for someone who has never had eye IBS, explain how it impacts someone's actual quality of life. So we know that we actually, we understand the symptoms. We understand what you need to do.

But like in terms of someone who might be like, oh, well, it doesn't sound like such a big deal. Yeah, that's a really good question because that's the biggest thing when it comes to IBS and BCOS as well. It's like, oh, well, you're not dying. You're not like fatal. It's like, okay, just get on with it. But it's like such a massive toll on their quality of life.

life from their social life to their dating life, their sex life, to actually being able to go to the gym. Like I remember all the time just not wanting to go because my stomach was so big and in pain as well. It holds people back from doing the things that they want to do in life essentially. So yeah, a lot of body image issues. A lot of embarrassment as well. People are going around farting. It doesn't, it's not something people want to like... You're not going to go out to meet up with your friends. No. It's like, sorry, can't come to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, there's a lot.

lot of shame there's a lot of shame so what advice would you have for anyone who's probably in that situation now where there sounds like these sounds like symptoms of theirs but they haven't they don't know and you know they're it's probably impacting their quality of life at the moment so yeah um it's quite some weird to PCOS you have to get diagnosed from a doctor yeah it's a little bit different though because there's no like one blood test or anything you kind of rule a lot of things out first and then kind of by default you'll get diagnosed with IBS. So it can almost feel a bit like disempowering. It's like, oh, yeah, you've got IBS, off your pop kind of thing.

Here's a laxative or here's an antispasmodic tablet and just get on with it. Do you want to try the FODMAP diet as well while you're at it? So, yeah, it's a bit disempowering and it can be quite disheartening for people as well. So, yeah, they would have to get a colonoscopy usually, which is not that enjoyable. but it's good to do because if you have a lot of inflammation as well there can be other things

there as well you want to screen out for bowel cancer as well and not to scare people just because your fibyitis and you've got bell cancer but it is something

that's important as well because chronic inflammation and also if people have been told to cut carps and fibre and they've got high protein that can cause a lot of issues in itself as well

I was going to ask you what's the worst advice you've seen on social media about IBS but I think you probably named a few things there yeah there's a few there's quite a few do you know I've stopped paying attention to what's online because I'm just like oh whatever but a big thing is like just just stop don't drink alcohol just don't drink alcohol like it's very simple and also just chew your foods um cut out carbs starchy carbs because they're what makes you

below and then avoid fiber so because of the tricky there's like a sweet spot that's very individual to person when it comes to the fiber types and like which kind of balance they need and how much they need so some clients cannot tolerate a big plate of veggies like it's just a no-go for them but we're encouraged to eat as much veggies as possible or at their relationship of food they're like volume i don't want to eat any carbs and we're going to eat loads of veggies so there's a lot of different things like that but it's like just eat your vegetables don't eat processed foods re-eat real food and it's like oh my god gaslighting like yeah thanks didn't think of that or don't stress Stone stress is a big one as well.

And I never asked you even about the misconceptions around PCOS. Misconceptions, what do you mean? Misconceptions. So like maybe advice online that you see that it's terrible advice or... Quite similar with like clean eating and just like do everything natural. I am someone who sit in the middle. Like I love natural things. I love being woo-woo.

I also am like, you know, we do need to look at the research that's now coming out in terms of not having a lot of estrogen, estrogen disrupting, hormone disrupting chemicals and stuff. But then I'm also not naive to think that that's absolutely ridiculous to try and do everything natural because that's not actually beneficial as well. So like even with skincare, natural scented fragrances and stuff causes issues and inflammation with acne for me. I've recently learned. So there's just a lot of like identities, isn't there a lot of biases? And a lot of people love to identify what one camp of.

I mean, the natural or I'm this or I'm not. that. So that's one thing. Misconceptions is you have to be on the pill or some sort of hormonal contraceptives to stop the hormonal symptoms and that is something that I will literally like fight to the dead. That is not true. So my being on the pill actually worsened my symptoms and really made everything a lot more difficult for me. So it's actually when I came off the pill that it kind of actually started that journey for me with trying to understand my hormones as well. It doesn't actually, Like, it might suppress your estrogen and kind of switch off the mental cycle, but it doesn't resolve insulin resistance or inflammation or stress.

And those are the big areas that you want to focus on. The mental cycle actually gives you feedback on where everything sits and what's contributing to that, how your body's responding with supplementation, diet changes, lifestyle changes as well. So with all these things that have happened and all these things you've had to learn about yourself, when's the book coming up? Yeah. What advice would you give you a younger self

who would be about to be going through all this? Ooh, God, there's so much. Because do you know what? I would love to say seek supports, but there was no support with the things I was dealing with. So I would love to be able to go back to her and be like, here's someone that you can go to for support, but that just wasn't a possibility.

And it wasn't for lack of trying. Like I did go see multiple people or reach out to functional medicine, doctors and all these different things. But there was just like that miss and peace that we now have so much education when it comes to hormones and digestion and now even with the nervous system.

But I would say, I don't know, to go inward and to slow down and to not feel like you have to do it all. I think I had like this badge of honour with stress and trying to achieve everything and trying to be liked by everyone. And just my body was everything that I valued because it was what I received.

validation from when ultimately I needed a lot of healing within myself but yeah we got there in the end do you do you think there's a paradox there the fact that you needed to slow down and not stress but then you were also stressed about trying to fix yourself and all the ways that you didn't absolutely yeah so this would be a really big thing people tell me why don't you just stop stress and I'm like I'm not fucking stressed so yeah it was it was difficult um so yeah I don't know if I even could have changed anything. I definitely could have gone to a therapist for eating disorders.

That was something I didn't do. Because I actually didn't know I had eating disorders. It wasn't until I did my nutrition qualification that I learnt about eating disorders. And I was like, holy shit, that was an eating disorder. And that wasn't until like 2018, I think. And I was like, and because I wasn't diagnosed, I even, like, didn't speak about it for a while

because I was like, I can't just diagnose myself with an eating disorder. But it's like every single aspect of what now learned that's what that was one thing you said one thing you said was um to to filter out your social media um how can people become it's a really it's a hard question answer even never be taken about it yet how can people become more self-aware about like the things that they're consuming is actually impacting these symptoms when they don't know that they're aware that these things that they're consuming are impacting their symptoms.

So it's like you probably don't need to listen to, you know, four or five more people talking about either diaculture or body transformations. But again, you don't know that that's what's actually harm in you and causing you more stress and more mental unrest. Well, I would say obviously they're following you and follow the likes of myself. And notice the tonality of our content. Like we talk about context. We talk about like, nuance.

Like, there's just not doing everything with such an extreme approach. That would be the biggest thing. If there's someone that's like, you have to do this. And everything is like so black or white. Like, that's such a red flag. Do you think that people need to need to make them mistakes in order to finally have the awareness to realize that, all right, that's not, that hasn't worked for me? I do and I don't. Because I think now we have so much access to information that I don't think people need to suffer through this anymore.

Yes, people learn from mistakes. They learn through their own experience, absolutely, and everyone has their journey. But I feel like we literally have access to so much now. It's difficult, of course, to find the right people to trust. Like, who the fuck could you trust these days? You'll even, these podcasts, there's doctors going on and speaking about nutrition. And, like, they would trust a professional name, you know.

So I really get that it's difficult, but it's to try and find the people that make you feel safe. Yeah. Make you feel relaxed, not triggered, not like you're not shame, not like you're comparing yourself and that type of content should help you feel at ease within your nervous system rather than like you need to control you need to do all these different things what's one thing you would want more women to know um whoa so much because I obviously work just with women my gods what's I want them to know what's the main

message that you give across when they come to work with you that they're not broken I think that they're not broken I think we receive so much messages in society and there's so much pressure so much pressure on like men as well I'm not saying that it's different but based on what I work with

and what I see there's so much shame there's so much shame in I'm broken when it comes to fertility I'm infertile I can't conceive even though they might be given the wrong information I can't be as confident as other person or put myself out there and go after what I want because I'm a different,

different, from a different background or because I don't trust myself or I'm never going to be someone who has good body image because I'm in a bigger body or because whatever, there's always comparison and there's always shame. So many women and I'm seeing this so much in my trauma coaching, they internalise everything. So if something happens, let's say you and me have a conversation now and you say something with a different tone of voice, you might just have said that because you're tired and I'll be like oh my god he hates me yeah you're going off the energy not the words literally oh my god I can't believe what I did and I'll try and adjust to that we'll try and like match the energy or shrink ourselves right and it's this constant internalization of what we're

experiencing or what content we're exposed to or how people treat us or how we perceive them to treat us that reinforces this shame so what what do you do as a coach in order to help them with that So it will depend on what we're working on, whether it's the trauma coaching or if it's the nutrition coaching. As a baseline, I give all my clients support with emotional processing because they need to understand the nervous system and they need to understand how to process emotions effectively. So the way I see emotions and how people deal with it, it's like you've got on one end of the spectrum is like avoidance and suppression and distraction and numbness and even intellectualization. So a lot of people are so intelligent, maybe they've even gone to therapy. they can process something logically, but they've no connection to their body and how it feels.

Then we've got the opposite side, which is very much overwhelm. Anxiety, can't cope, mental breakdowns all over the shop. And in the middle, we've got someone who is connected to their body and empowered, but it's so fucking uncomfortable. It's really, really difficult to do that. So I show clients a bit of a process of what I've created and how to actually support their body and feel safe and doing so.

So it's not something that they're avoiding and suppressing with bingeating, or emotional eating or it's not something that they're feeling powerless and helpless in their life because they're feeling like a victim as well. How do you make them feel more safe? Within themselves. So, you know, I show them how to do that within themselves. So, you know, I could sit here and be like, I'm a healer and I'm this, that and do other. My job is to show them their capacity for their own healing and for their own resilience and their own power within. So we'd work like straight off the bat would be working on somatic. aspects and so going if like you know I went to trauma therapy before for resurface

PTSD and straight away she went to talk about my problems and that is the worst thing that you can do for someone who's dysregulated in their nervous system you have to help them feel safe somatically first so I remember coming away from that experience thinking I was broken thinking that no one can help me re-traumatize as well and I wasn't until I did my further qualification that I learned all about the somatics and your nervous How did she not make you feel safe and how could she have made you feel more safe that you would be, did? You'd be able to discuss that with her? So she should have given me tools straight off the bat.

She should have helped me calm because I was very much in a state of panic and distress. And she went straight into my story. Yeah. I wouldn't go into the story about clients because people play a very distorted story as well. When we're going through process and trauma, we'd have a look at so many different angles and highlighted to clients that they're not. not a victim in that story, that there's so many different aspects of things they've blocked out. That's obviously on a bit of a spectrum where I scale, because there's lots of different types of trauma. But she should have helped me feel safer than my body and tools and regulate

and practice that, like a lot, seeing the green light of, okay, she's ready because... Yeah, she trusts me, kind of. Yeah, or like even that I'm able to support myself. So a big thing as well people don't understand is when you are in fight or flight or you're disregulated, the different parts of your brain are actually activated. So you and me can sit here have a logical conversation, but if I suddenly am triggered but are activated by something, I'll start using the irrational, illogical part of my brain, emotional survival type of brain. So again, like I said, a minute ago, I might perceive everything that you're saying and be like, oh my God, he did this, he did that.

Bastards. Yeah, literally, when actually you just said, hi. So, yeah, it's really bringing neuroscience to the table. That's to help understand it. counseling never worked for me therapy never worked for me and I understand why not that it doesn't work for other people because of the connection that was missing that's very visceral within your body if there's someone out there who

struggling with IBS struggling with disorderly and struggling with PCOS struggling with you know not being stressed overworking themselves all the all the situations that you were in how could they reach out to you

or where can they reach out to you in terms of getting help, getting support? Yeah, yeah. So best through Instagram or through my bio. I basically have a link to a contact form that they can reach out there. My email is also on my Instagram as well. They can book in for a free call

or they can book straight in for coaching or for consultation. There's a few different options depending on what they need support with. Thanks for watching. If you like that episode and you want to see more content like this, make sure you're subscribed and I'll see you on the next one.