The Uneducated PT Podcast - #55 Mike Minard - Stepping Into The Ring

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

In this episode of the Uneducated PT Podcast we speak to ex military and pro boxer turned coaching Mike Minard. We talk about the difference between making it in boxing vs other sports, why selling tickets is everything in this sport, the dirty side of boxing and much more.

Hello and welcome to the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carlo Rourke. The goal of this podcast is to bring on interesting and knowledgeable people from all walks of life, learn a little something from each conversation and for you, the listener, just learn something from each episode. So don't forget to subscribe to the channel, press the box below, show some support, and I'll see you on the next episode. Mike, can you tell the listeners a little bit about your background, how you ended up working in the fitness industry and what you do today?

Yeah, so it was quite a, quite the same as I. a lot of people in the industry, always banging to sports when they were younger. So for me, it was football and boxing. As a lot of people from Liverpool are always involved in one or the other, but I was involved in both and then, you know, through school, always on like the athletics team, but always always involved in sports.

So as I got older, I think I started leaning towards a more physical, like a part that was a little bit more physical obviously ended up in the Navy I was always competing boxing and playing footy etc and I didn't necessarily make it as a footballer or you know

I wasn't on course to win any world titles or anything along the lines of that so yeah I just found myself helping people achieve their physical goals did you not make did you not go pro for a while as well though yeah yeah that's it

I turn pro yeah It's, see, with professional boxing, as opposed to, you know, if there's listeners out there that don't necessarily understand how professional boxing works. It's not like football where you need to be golden,

to be given a professional contract by someone. Yeah, yeah. It's like two different sports. You can turn pro. Obviously, it does help if you've got to, it does help if you're good, like it does help if you've got a bit of a name for yourself or and that's obviously why

these YouTube boxes are smashing it at the moment because they've got a big name and themselves, big following. Professional boxing is just business. It's just professional football is talent and, you know, elite professional boxing is just a different sport. Don't get me wrong.

Like I'm not completely writing myself off in saying that because, you know, I enjoyed it and I done pretty well, you know. Yeah. When you say, like, boxing is more of a business versus, like, football, that might be kind of more talent-wise. Like, what do you mean that in the sense of that, okay, if you have personality or if you can, you know, call people out

or create this beef, you'll end up getting bigger fights and bigger paydays, yeah? yeah without doubt mate I know and everyone in boxing does know like there's people around gyms and there's people who've you know quite quiet basically not a dickhead

and killers me do I mean absolute killers but because they haven't got that because they don't sell tickets or they don't they haven't got that massive following no promoters want to give them that opportunity whereas I know people who

okay, do you know what I mean? Not writing them off, but, you know, some people are okay, but they're getting pushed on, they're getting looked after they're getting, you know, 13, 14 boats, you know, like journeymen, building them up and they're building the business, they're building the brand,

then when it's time, they'll, they'll offer them, you know, doors will just start to open them for them because, because of the amounts of bums that they put on seats. Do you think that, yeah, makes boxing a little bit more, difficult to kind of move up through the ranks compared to like other sports because like

I don't think in any other sports other than kind of combat sports where you really need to have a personality it's like you know if you're you're good or what you do doesn't nobody gives a shit what you how you carry on outside it's just like your or your your great midfield there you're you're in the team versus you know you can actually sell tickets because of your personality well that's it like and don't get me wrong like I'm people come into boxing, they need to expect that. Like, they need to be, that is what it is. It's not...

Is that, is that, is that, I presume that's not... Like, kids aren't told that probably at a younger age or they're just... Amateur boxing is more of a sport. Yeah. You know, you've got your competitions and you've got your championships. You've got the Olympics. That's the, that's the North Star as an amateur boxer. It's a boxing the Olympics.

It's the, you know, that and the world championships. and represent your country but professional boxing you know that that switch over is it is what it is and you've got to if you're going into that and you're expecting to be

put on great shows and let your talent do to speak it does to a same degree but it's pure business and yeah people do need to be told that they can't go into professional boxing and and expect doors to just fly open just because they're really good they need to have something else about them

and they need to be able to brand themselves they need to be able to look good they need to be able to not as a boxer but like put on a shell kind of thing they need to have that personality they need to look

sellable and if they're sellable it'd be fine and people yeah it is enough to make some people go ah fuck that people it's enough and I get that but you know as I mentioned see just before the call

when I've been involved in in certain boxing events you can be super clean cut with people and it's like listen you need to sell tickets that's what box is you have to sell tickets and people go

fuck I just want to I just want to it's like no boxing is business professional boxing is business and it's shit but for some people it's shit and for some people

it's like yes I yeah yeah makes sense so what pushed you into deciding that you were going to go down the route of boxing versus, let's say, football or any other sport? Well, we played football very, very young, and I was at Blackpool, played in golf for Blackpool. And I had a super shite mentality when I was a teenager. And I believed...

In what way? I was super all in, all out, be all or end all. And when I never, when I wasn't successful with Blackpool, I was like, fuck it. That's me done. And I had Torhe United to offer me a contract and Athington inviting me down. A few other teams when I left Blackpool.

And I was just like, no, no. And I was just hell bent. And don't get me wrong, like, I'm not going to sit here. and throw blame my things but after a bit of reflection as an adult and a bit more education as an adult I can see why that was with some of the interesting fathering I received

if that makes sense to read so just yeah boxing kind of it was one or the other if one didn't succeed, I'd stick with the other. And so when football didn't work out for me, I was just down in the gym. I'm just seeing where I could go with that.

Do you think that boxing helps change your mentality at all in terms of even how you would react to kind of adversity or, you know, people shutting doors on you? Absolutely, yeah. It's a, I believe that there's a lot more lessons in boxing. There's a lot more lessons in in a solo sport.

I think if you're in that on your own, like it's on you. In football, you've got 10 other players in front of you. I was a goalkeeping and we've got 10 other people, 10 other players around you, you've got a coaching team, you've got this, that way, but boxing, it's only you in the ring, and it's only you can

it's only you who pulls the strings. When that is the case and you accept that nobody's coming to fucking bail you out nobody's coming to save you like you do

spread that across other areas of your life absolutely do you ever get any nerves getting into the ring and if so like how how did you control them nerves or them fair because obviously there's probably

a lot of people listening to this who you know might want to even you know box for the fun of her or something like that or maybe wants to experience getting them to the ring

you know one time in their life but you know nerves and fear are probably a big factor to that. Did you ever have any nerves or fear getting into the ring? Yeah, definitely. And like that came from,

when I look back, the more nerves I add was down to insecurity in a way. And I don't mean insecurity is in like the way I looked or what people would say about me, things like that.

It was the insecurity of, let's say, for example, I'd skip a few runs or skip the few same sessions. or I didn't give, if I knew deep down that I didn't give it everything that I possibly could have, I would be shitting myself in the changes,

do you know what I mean? And there's times where I've literally left my heart in the gym and I've killed myself in training and I've done everything and more. And then it's exciting. It's just like it is what it is. If I get beat, I've fucking done everything. But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's nice.

That's, that's a really good point. And like, I would, I like, like, preparation in terms of the more prepared you are, the less nervous you are. And I think that, that, that's the same in any walk of life. Because I remember, like, even, it's not boxing, but I remember even going to do my first public speaking event and I literally hammered home, uh, my notes day in, day, yeah. Like, I could literally say the talk in my sleep. And when it came to.

the day, I wasn't nearly as nervous as I thought I would be, or I was supposed to be. And it was because I had literally done everything I could do to prepare. And then the opposite end of that, I've done ones before where I wasn't prepared at all, and I was fucking shit myself. I'd write yourself because

it was a car crash of a talk. I kind of refer to that when I said I've been in the gym and there's young people in the gym. We were going through exams in school. I just say, look, get yourself,

just get yourself ready and they're putting themselves out under so much stress. And at the end of the day, like, if you've done your bit, fuck, just what it is what it is. Yeah, the outcome doesn't really matter anymore then because you can say that wholeheartedly, you've done everything that you actually could

to prepare for it. So the outcome is actually irrelevant at that stage. Yeah, and that's it. It's another, another, another, another, another, um, another way to relay that is through a client's journey, if they're on a fat loss journey.

Yeah. Their fight or their exam might be them getting on the scales at a certain point in their program and they, they might be getting nervous getting on the scales to see how well leave done. But if they know, they have, they have been having the odd fucking, they haven't, basically haven't put the work in that they should have been doing, they're going to get nervous. But if they've done absolutely everything that they possibly couldn't go on the scales

and it still didn't reflect what they wanted to see, they're not going to be that ass. They're going to be like, feel better. I've learned something about myself and I've not cheated myself. Yeah, most of the time when people are jumping out of scales and nervous of it's going up, it's because they know that they've fucking gone hell for a letter on the weekend, have a fucking cabbs and points and stuff like that, you know.

So you almost subconsciously or consciously know already what the outcome is going to be because you know what work you did or didn't do. Yeah. And I think that moves, especially in boxing, like you move differently. You're in the ring, you carry yourself a little bit. Confidence, I presume then, isn't it? Because you've done the work. Yeah, yeah.

You'd be like, a bit edgy and you'd be like, fuck, you're in a state of doubt. And that's purely because you know that you haven't done what you're. you're supposed to do as opposed to if you get in the ring and it could be an absolute killer who you're boxing but if you're in in the best shape that you possibly could have been you'll go out on your sword you'll go out on your shield and you'll be like you'll enjoy it better even if you that's that's a that's a really good analogy for like any area of life I think are preparing for anything but yeah it makes makes complete sense so what piece of advice would you wish you were given earlier on in your career in boxing would you say like

let's say you were, let's say you were to run into your past self or you were to coach your past self, what would you, what would you say to Mike about boxing? Well, number one would be to change, well, I try and alter that mindset that I thought that I was old when I was 18. Yeah, yeah. 18, 19. I was thinking, fucking hell, I'm, you know, but then a year ago, but a year goes by so, so quick and it's the, it's the golden thing in it, that all the people say to you.

younger all life goes fast it fucking does like you know what I mean and especially in boxing like for me I feel I've looked after my body so I feel now I feel like quite young for

for me age and I just feel as though you convince yourself that you've you've had a hard time and if there's nobody there saying fucking hell might come on or or whoever it might be, you'll be fucking commended.

Stop, don't be thinking too negatively about where you are now, just keep going. That means you know, just, you know, see where it takes you rather than making your own sort of, I've got one more in me.

You know what I mean? I'd probably say go with how you feel, how your body feels, you know. And I think that, you know what, though, touching on that, that's kind of stemmed from a shitty experience, really, because I'd just boss,

I was 18, not I was 17. And years ago, it's not like now where the championships, you've got to box within, like, when you're up to 18 or 19, you've got to box within 11 months of your own age. Back then, it was like, as soon as you're 17, you're open class. So you can box 30, 31, 32-year-olds. And when I was 17, I box someone who was 33. and he boxed years before that

and he had a little bit of a layoff and then got back into and all that so we had life experience but I think it was on me 10th fight or something and it was his seventh but he had well more but whatever but I'd done everything that I possibly could have done

so I wasn't too nervous I got in the ring and he punched holes in me my fucking knolls was over here my ribs were bro out he punched holes in me like it and when I got out after it, after it my mates are ringing me, Mike what are you up to? Come here, we're doing this, we're doing that.

The stupid prick left his phone on and put it in his pocket and I heard them the conversation, do I mean, I heard all the conversation, I heard them talking and yeah, fucking hell, Mike's finished there, like, you know, Mike's, he needs to

fuck it off now. Look at Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was a world champion by the time he was 20 years and I'm like listening to this and that's when I thought oh, fucken hell yeah. Yeah, that's that's that's hard stomach in it.

Yeah, well, you know I didn't necessarily have anyone there to say no, they're full of shit Mike, do you know? Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I mean. Especially at 17 it's like, you know, as much as even at that age you know, you might you still, you could still back yourself but like

them things are, them kind of comments are going to impact you even if it's subconsciously. Definitely, yeah. And I think just going back to that question, there the advice on what you'd give yourself kind of

it would be that. It would be to like I say, a fourth that was finished and I had a very, very young age. Do you think that's, do you that goes to show the importance of, let's say, right, let's say you at 17, like having a coach who's not only there for you to

get you physically prepared for fighting, but also mentally when you kind of hear shit like that from people who, you know, don't, probably don't want the best for you or, you know, like being able to pick you back up when

like you've had a bad experience like that or when you've had a loss and keep your kind of your mind clear so that you continue to kind of push forward. Yeah. I think so it's, it's, from a coaching perspective, I think that's what I try and base my coaching

off what I didn't get. Yeah, yeah, what you needed back then, yeah. Like a good 80% of my coaching is, especially when, especially when, like, I've run events and I've took people through a boxing journey and they've had a shit spa. I've been on the phone to do that night's listen.

Fucking don't worry about that. You know, trust me, things change in a second. And even people who aren't boxing, I just give them what I needed to hear, you know. Yeah, because I would imagine like it's as physically demanding as it is, it's still an emotional roller coaster as well. Yeah, absolutely, because you know, you can be all geared up and you can be ready to go,

but then as soon as you get tagged, your emotion soon changes, you know. So tell me a little bit about the type of people that you coach and work with now. are they all like um amateur pro boxers is like do you fight do you train anyone who might be like just general public who who who's not a boxer but might want to kind of get into it how does how does it work your coaching yeah majority of the majority of my clients are non-athletes yeah um so a lot of a lot of me works last year was predominantly online and now over the course of the last 12 months it's sort of transitioned a bit more

in person obviously before I was online I was solely on the gym floor um the type of people who have had on who are my clients are non-athletes but haven't been involved in

same boxing events people who've come through the door who've never boxed before so I've had like a what's the oldest what's the oldest person that you've trained who is a non-atly never boxed before but you got them like kind of fight ready probably about 67 really that's 68 that's cool yeah 67 68 and yeah just I have a gym goer I want to do something that I've never done before in me like and people like to do race for life to raise for life to raise money some people like to walk mountains some people want to box so you come to me with that idea I'll make sure that it's

safe and what what kind of process do you have to go through with someone like that compared to like the type of training that you would have maybe went through as kind of a pro boxer like what kind of considerations do you have to make as a coach training someone that has

never fought before, never boxed before and wants to kind of get into it well the first the first thing the most absolute paramounting when it comes down to anybody who's actually boxing is safety we need to make sure that we're working backwards

so let's say for example the fight is on X date we need to then rewind eight weeks and go backwards and make sure that they're getting as fit as what they can possibly get themselves

and also holding them to high standard. It's like this is boxing. If we're going to do it, let's see how you are taking a shot. And then I'll see if they can take a shot and they fall, they absolutely fall to pieces. We've got to work on

that. That's if they still want to proceed. Because a lot of people's minds do change when they realize that boxing is not it's not a game. You do get punched in the face, you know. But

yeah, we just make, we try and make the experience for somebody like that from where you just described here or who I've just described like the 67, 68 year old, we make sure that they, the experience is tailored for them. Yeah. What do you mean by that?

So we'll get somebody in who's not necessarily going to smash them to pieces and that they're doing a number on them. We'll probably get somebody in who actually, who's actually really really, really good.

so that they can just give it to them at their level. That makes sense to make sure that they're getting a really good, so that they're getting a good match, not so much like they're getting their heads punched in, but also not do the way around where it looks shit. It's taking them through the paces, and knowing how to do that is quite a skill in itself. So we work backwards from that really,

get them as fit as what they possibly can do to be in that position. Do you see a difference even in the eight weeks of them, like from the first training session, a couple of sessions in their confidence grown in terms of what they're doing? Yeah, that's where it's at. Like I say, when it's not like a young lad, like training professionally or training to box as an amateur,

when it's somebody who's just doing it for the experience to raise money for charity in like a white collar boxing events or something like that, it's incredible to see the effect that boxing has on them over the course of a training camp and the togetherness that it brings the lessons that they learn in such a short time. It's remarkable for me as a coach to see that.

And I think a lot of people do discount boxing and white collar boxing. And right, don't get me not like there's people, across the country who do these events, white collar boxing events and they are matching them up incorrectly and they are... What are the some of the things you see in terms of white collar

boxing that, like, that you don't like or that you would do different or that gives a kind of a bad rap? Well, number one, like the white differences. Yeah. You can't put somebody in the ring with somebody who's two stone every than you. You can't put somebody in the ring who's, you know,

67 with a 24 year old who, you know, and both of them have never boxed before because if both of them have never boxed a 24 year old doesn't know how to tone it down or doesn't know how to... Yeah, yeah, you're actually far better off getting someone experienced who can't hold back in control what they're doing.

Yeah, that's what I mean. So that's what it's like when I see this shit happening, I am not surprised why white collar boxing has got a bad rap, but when there's somebody who's got that duty of care and it's like the most paramount thing is not ticket sales

it's so that you get the good experience Do you think that that's what a lot of them do They just care about Okay, I'm just trying to make as much money as possible here Rather than I'm trying to tailor this experience To the people who want to compete in it 100% means 100% and there's no getting away Like obviously I'm not going to be like throwing any

Any names in or any shit like that But it's so I am not surprised why call a boxing has got a bad rap and whenever I'm involved with somebody who's doing white collar boxing I will make sure just out of respect

for the sport that it's done correctly so earlier on this year when I was kind of transitioning my whole sort of client base I created the program called the Action All Corners program and it was based at novice boxers across the board whether that was amateur

professional but novice white collar boxers unlicensed boxers and even if I wasn't part of the event or anything like that I would definitely be on the phone to the coach and I'd be like

how's their training going how's their don't get me wrong some of the coaches be like what the fuck's they've got to do with you and I'll be like well I've got a duty of care over them from a box to want to make sure that you're not

throwing them in with someone who's going to absolutely be fucking smash into pieces and wall as friends and family. That was my promise with the Action All Corners program was the duty of care, make sure that... And I think for anyone who hasn't boxed before, that's their biggest

concern as well. Yeah, because most of these businesses, most of these events, they offer an eight-week free training camp, which is all well and good, but I had people who were doing these eight-week free training camps,

who would invest into my program as well to make sure that the safety was there. And I'm not saying that, you know, Mike's going to get on the phone and make sure fucking everything's all right. I'm not saying in that regard. What I'm saying, it is, like, I know something that they don't.

If you're a completely brand new box, brand new to the gate, you've never boxed before. I know something that you don't. Well, put it this way, right? If I would prefer to, if let's say there's two boxing clubs, right? I would prefer to go to the one where I have to pay 15 quid for a day pass and have trainers around there who are experienced,

who have a duty of care, who make sure that I'm, you know, getting in with people of my level or, you know, if I'm not ready to spar, you know, doing drills or whatever it is, versus me going to the other boxing club where, oh, it's, you know, free today you can go in, but you go in and get the head box off you because there's no one in there

looking after you. Like, you might have got a, you might have got a free class, but like you've also you know being put in a dangerous situation. Definitely, mate, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it's important because a lot of people,

especially inexperienced coaches or coaches who haven't necessarily got that level of care about them, someone could come through the door and be like, I've done loads of boxing, I've boxed here, a boxed here, I've done this, I've had this many fights and get in the talk,

a good one, get in the ring and be absolutely shite. and that's dangerous because you've gone out. They're experienced. Let's get this experience guy in. And so it's about like knowing, okay, sound. You're telling me that you're experienced. Let's see how you are. Let's get you in, let's get you on the bag or let's get you on the pads

or let's see your experience so that you can see first and they're talking a bit of shit. They're just, you know, about it, me, listen, get on this one. in a previous event that I was involved in earlier on in the year a lad come to me and he was like yeah I'll get on our box mate I'll move them around me I've been here I've done this I've checked on his Instagram bio he had in his Instagram bio professional boxer

18 and now sponsored by JD right this Rick got a pair of short and printed a JD badge on them, right? So I was like, what's he wanting to do this for, because he looked the bollocks on Instagram.

It looked at the bollocks. And obviously, I don't have to make a few phone calls to see, you know, who this guy was, and he was just a complete and utter fantasist. So he's been talking, I really got, and I put him in with someone who's had like one one or two boats a lot earlier on in the life and he was shitting him he was saying to me Mike

he put me in with this lad who's a he's professional he's at 18 and I'm like may take no notice honest to God like what like what would be there's no rationale

to do with something like that though isn't or not like that's not gonna end well for you no absolutely not he got in and realised he was out of his depth

he was at us yeah yeah he was out of his depth not in a I'd never put anybody in in the face of danger like but it was real because of 18 and all he literally convinced

himself that he was an incredible professional fighter do you think that a lot of people get into the ring not realising how real it is until they actually get a smack yeah and that is where

that's where a coach has to be super real and invite the invite the boxer or the participant should I say

in a white collar scenario to be completely honest and open about themselves and then you'll know straight away probably after a couple of training sessions with someone anyway what their ability

is. Yeah, that's you. You know, it's like, what's your experience in boxing. If, yeah, I've done a bit of boxing. I've had a few fights, but you haven't. You're convincing the coach there that you're at a level that you can be,

you know, you are shooting yourself in the fourths with it. You know, if you're just completely honest and like, listen, I can't throw a punch. I'm completely, I'm shocking. I've never done this before, but I'm doing it because I want to learn it. A coach will have more respect for that person.

than if they were chatting shite, you know what I mean? Do you end up getting a lot of clients who, okay, say that exact thing where that, you know, I can't throw a punch, I've never been on a fight before, and, you know, they're not one big confident in their ability, but like after a couple of sessions, like, this person actually has a lot of ability. Yeah, well, that's it. Then it's up to me as a coach to hone that. again, I keep referring to the

white collar situation because a lot of people later on in life used a platform like that to have a go. And if I then identify that they have got something about themselves. Won't let them hang around in that

world too much. I'll be like, listen, you've got some really good potential. And then I get in touch with a boxing club in their area and tell them you know, I've got this person showing me some really good potential, really good ability.

Yeah, make it like a lifelong pursue for them that they keep doing it. Yeah, definitely. Obviously, if that's the route that they want to go down and that's happened. I would imagine, I would imagine like for a coach, for a boxing coach,

you're put to work a lot more probably coaching, white collar boxing and and people who have never boxed before versus like, you know, people in a boxing club who have been boxing their whole lives and like your, you're, you're, like you said, your duty of care, you, you're, there's a lot more risk of things going wrong with the, because you're, because you're, you're putting the general population into, into places that they've never been before. So I presume like, yeah, it's, that's probably, where, you know, having a coach who is skilled in what they're doing, who has a bit of sense,

has a bit of awareness, like, has a duty of care. Like, they're probably the most important people to be running them type of events versus, you know, someone who's just decided to trowing it together to make a few quid. Yeah, absolutely. And that's where the respect for boxing comes into it. You know, at the end, I've had 30 people in front of it. to me who've never done it before and if anything goes wrong

if one of them people get hurt if one of them people get like when I say hate there's always the risk of people getting hurt in boxing because it's a combat sport but I mean hate unjust so

if they're getting in with someone who's two stone three stone heavy than them if they're getting in with someone who's super fit and they're not at that standard or mismatches and you know it's on me I need to ensure that everyone is

yeah you can't you can't like you can't control for all variables and you can't control for nothing going wrong but you can reduce that as much as possible

by creating a fair training ground for people to express themselves in yeah 100% and I credit myself on that you know if there's one thing that I can take to the grave of me

it's like I know I've done a good job in terms of um making sure people are getting a fair back of the whip if boxing something they want to experience like that's one thing I just could not live with myself

and that's the big thing as well it's like if this is their first experience this is the make or break whether they continue to do it or not yeah and not only that means it like I think about think about if you sold you know I know you've got an incredible following

imagine if you sold 200 tickets or you'd add all your friends and your close family there ring side watching you've been going on about you've been going on about this incredible event that you're doing you've raised loads of money for charity

and then the next minute you put in the ring with someone who's well heavy than it who might have done a little bit who's more experienced than you and just absolutely like fills you in in front of everyone I think about what that could do for a person's confidence and the soul

you'd feel demoralised, you know what I mean? And that's a... Yeah, but don't get me wrong. People, some people don't care about that as long as you've sold the amount because you've got a massive following. Some people won't care about that because they know that you can sell a few tickets

and make them a few quid. They're not bothered about your emotional state or how it looks for, whichever. And that's the... It's about rude. it's about really having it's your morals and also being like there's no reason why you can't have boat there's no reason

why you can't run a successful show that makes a lot of money that also people get a lot out of the experience and also they're protected and your morals are intact I don't see why you can't have both yeah same I wish I could get that message across to a lot of

A lot of people, myself, and yeah, yeah, absolutely right. Do you coach any clients who, let's say they don't want, they have no interest in getting in the ring, but they still want to get in shape or they still want to lose a bit of body fat or they just just want to get fitter and you use boxing as a way to do that? Yeah, yeah. But, you know, majority of my clients, once they get a little taste of it in the pads,

they love that. And yeah, I've got a client there, Laura, as soon as she walks through the door, I'm like, I'll look at my watch and see how long it's going to take. Can we do some boxing, boxing, boxing. It's enjoyable, you know, letting your hands go. And I always like to round a few sessions off with certain individuals like Laura,

we just mentioned Nate, I'll go, yeah, well, we've got our work to do first, we've got our bit of strength to do, and we'll do a couple of rounds to finish off. And she's like, you know, slogging through the session, like, ah, fuck, this, that, and that. But then as soon as the gloves come out, she's like, wow, it is. It's like,

even if you're, even if you're now interested in fighting, like, what a way to kind of relieve stress and to get your fitness up, but there's nothing better than hitting pads? No, it is good. Honestly, it's some people like to run and they get that run as high. Some people like to throw some

some punches and I think just punching for the sake of punching and not that's where I find myself lately is just I like hitting pads in the bikes and I like doing the bits

but I've got no fights coming up I've got nothing to work towards but just doing it for the love of punching is there doesn't always have to be a means to an end with it like sometimes you just do things just because

you know it is good to do them and how you feel after doing it yeah like that like I've got a proper negative relationship with running myself because I've always like ran to lose weight I've never just ran to feel good

you know so can I ask you a question because I've had I've had like a Maitai coaches on here I've had a few of them on and you know combat athletes in general a lot of them have talked about like body dysmorphia and body image issues like have you found that being prevalent in boxing in terms of weight cuts and stuff like that yeah

Absolutely, mate. I've experienced it myself, like without question. Multiple times, I think, as an amateur, you know, there's a lot of people, you know, really, really good boxing coaches, really good, know the shit, like inside and out, no boxing, eat, sleep and breathe, boxing, but they're not too nutritionally educated. so for them taking young people through

you know a training camp or they've got championships coming up and it's like the last week you know it's nil by mouth or it's

sauna time or getting a hot bath and you know don't be eating no carbs and yeah I'd say I'd say you experience a lot of that

as someone who kind of has a background in nutrition knows what they're talking about. And then obviously, like, I think that's in most combat sports as well, is that like, obviously, a lot of combat sports, you know, they're not, it's a poor man sport, essentially. So there's not going to be huge education in terms of, you know, good quality advice with nutrition and stuff like that. I wouldn't imagine there are a lot of them are educated in terms of,

I wouldn't say you'd see a lot of dietitians or nutritionists in that sport. I think it's getting better. I think, I don't get me wrong, it's getting. better because I think there's that much information out there on the likes of social media and boxing coaches and other combat sports coaches are starting to soften up

when they see somebody that they might have coached from a young age getting coming of age to a level where they are getting nutritionists included and then they're starting to think to themselves then or maybe I should start tapping into this and then educate themselves

so I think it is it's getting better but there's still like for myself it affected me so bad because when I there was a certain point yeah when I was when I was when I was boxing for the Navy right

I had to stay on weight I had to stay or roughly there I couldn't go over to say like two kilos of both fighting weight now naturally I'm a lot bigger and a lot heavier than that you know what I mean and I'd come down in the last couple of days.

Like, you know, you're not, you're not supposed to stay there if it's not a natural way for you to be at. Couldn't do it. I could not, but I'd fight and fight and fight and fight, fight with myself to keep the weight down

and it affected me that much that this is like no word of a lie. Somebody held the door open for me once, as you do every single day, right? And I just burst out crying. Because I was like, I was so emotionally wrecked with the basically starvation I was waking up and I'd get like a mug of a water

and I'd have a baroque in that, and that'd be it for the day on some occasions and then I'd just be so like down and depressed and emotionally wrap. And I'm just thinking, fucking hell, might just have a jack of potato, you know what I mean? Like that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'd say

back then that was purely because you'd get on the scales and if you were over you'd have a whole team around you looking at you calling you're a fat bastard and then

you know it was just ruthless and you'd be like I'm fat I'm a fat I'm a fat you're just fall off and it was all scale weight orientated so

yeah absolutely my relationship with food back then now and absolutely fine now, but back then scale we're oriented sport without question as an impact on a man's

self-body image. Yeah, I can imagine so. And then I suppose the only silver line on that is that you're so aware of it now that you can implement that into your coach and when you kind of see them red flags with clients who might be hyper-accessing or hyper-obsessing

about these kind of things. You said that you were in the Navy as well. Tell me a little bit about that. When did you join the Navy and why? I came, I left an 18, it was about 12 years ago now. I joined because probably because of boxing, I'd done like,

I had a fitness test and to join the Royal Marines at first. When I went to the Crees office and knew, like when I'd go to like championships as a boxer that's sea, like they were sponsored by, like the Royal Navy. or, you know, there was like a little bit of a, you go to like the ABAs,

and he'd have big Royal Naval signs up. Yeah. So I knew that they were quite big on boxing. So when I went to the Careers office, done a test for, to join the Royal Marines, and then I went back to the Careers office, and I was talking to them about, when do I get to box, when do we get to join on the team,

or when do I get to have a go and whatever. The Royal Marines were saying to me, well, you've got to do your general duties first. You've got to do your training. So you do your, obviously, the all-arms course, and you go through the 30s two-week process. Then you do your two years general duties. Then you might be able to box.

Whereas the guy from the Navy was saying, you go through your training. You can box, like, when you get to your phase too, you can, you know, there's gyms on camp day, and you can go and do your bits and Bob's day. So I went down that route. And that is, and I used to say that, like, when, when we were in the room

and you had to stand up and introduce yourself to everyone and why you joined it was always that I'm here because I wanted to box I was in the in the boxing elements of things and yeah so I went through me phase one got into phase two

was going to the gym and one of the PTIs in there was like oh you're boxed before you go out to come down here done a little bit of sparring and I was in front of the correct eyes at the time got invited on to

the squad then and that was that was my naval life really and so how long did you stay with them for what the boxing squad or just the Navy in general? The Navy in general it's just under three years and so

for the three years did you get the box were you out on seeing stuff like that as well no I didn't I didn't go on any deployments because you were in with the yeah I was on the boxing squad and when I came off that because I'd missed a lot of time

on board I was a little bit behind so I just get passed from pillar to post because I was quite behind on a few things and there was the odd there was the odd knobbed who was like oh you've

you know all you've done and whilst you've been here is boxing instead of being happy about that they'd be like let's slam him with all a shite, you know what I mean. Yeah, absolutely. And it didn't help, it didn't help being a scouser as well after there's a lot of

supporters that don't like that. And, so what made you, what made you decide to, to leave, leave the Navy then? Probably that made, to be honest, what you do?

It was like nine months getting past from Pillars to Post and, and I wasn't really going no way. I didn't see. I'm one of them. If something's made up in my mind, I just have to pull a, going on straightaway in terms of like

I'm not going to be I'm not going to make a career out of being in the Navy I joined to box I boxed I tick that box I'm off now do what I mean so yeah I had to get myself out of day so when did

after the military when did the decision then to start coaching other people coming to play well prior to me joining I was already doing like boot camps and stuff like that I live quite close to, like, the local park here

and I was doing like bootcams in there at the age of like 17, 17, 18. But then when it came out, the very next day, I had to get me, you know, I had to get me, my shit in order for when I did leave. So I made contact with the local gym. And then like the day, the day after I left, I was in the gym on the gym floor. took my first client on and then...

Yeah, that's good, isn't it? Because you want that after you leave a job. Like, if you're kind of stuck in limbo in between, you can kind of then instantly kind of regret it or be like, oh, have I made the right decision? But, like, if you have something, then to step straight into, it makes it a lot easier.

Yeah, my family were quite concerned. Not like my mum and my sister, they were like, whatever makes you happy, my. But yeah, my dad was... I don't know, he must have just thought that, like, you know, I didn't have nothing like, or I was just going to waste my life away, so to speak. But, yeah, I just got stuck straight in from the day after.

Yeah, because a lot of people would probably have the perception, oh, like, you know, a job in the military, it's a job for life, you know, you get your benefits and whatever. And then when people here, oh, yeah, I'm working down the local gym, they might think, like, oh, that's something that, you know, you're going to do for the rest of your life and stuff like that. it can kind of be frowned upon a little bit sometimes, can't it? Yeah, it can be.

But it's what your values are at the end of day. Personally, I'm not a person who could stay in a job. So if a person could do the job better than me, my employer could do the job better than me, I can show me the way and can lead the way. I'll work for anybody. But if they stood behind me, and they can't show me how to do the job

and they're not good at the job themselves but they're just cracking the whip telling me what to do I don't, wasn't really sit too well with me but you're almost stuck then you can never really progress and then like that's something that like it's human nature that

whatever we're doing we want to progress in it certainly and I think it comes down to you like your values as well some people are like I'm stuck in my job this is life you've got to work but like in the Navy

I had a steady income but there is just dickheads everywhere I'd rather have less of an income and not to deal with dickheads than to have a steady income and I've have these knobbeds that arm me all the time I couldn't, that's just me

but some people can put the blockers onto that but personally speaking like I don't want to live like I don't want to you know fucking I'm not here long mate you know what I mean? Life short, we ask with additions. I think that's a big problem with people as well

is that they can get stuck in like, oh, this, you know, this has good pay or it's a good steady job. But like if you're miserable, like how long is that going to last really? But then the problem is sometimes it's,

it's not that bad. So people just kind of stay still. Like they don't like their job, but it's not bad enough for them to leave. And it's not good enough for them to be happy. So they're kind of stay in this kind of comfortably numb zone. but I think you're right if you know what your value

it makes it a lot easier to kind of make these decisions and pull the plug on things I've never really found it difficult to walk away from jobs that didn't give me fulfillment or excitement and stuff like that

even if they paid well but I suppose like a side tangent that I only have myself to look after as well another question I wanted to ask you was like when you reflect on all these kind of different stages

of your life like, you know, from, you know, doing pro boxing to, you know, being ex-military to, you know, now owning your own kind of business where you're coaching people. Like, what moments or decisions do you think of have shaped you the most? Good question. Not like, um, are we talking like specific occurrences or are we talking like just in, in, like a general? I think in general, in terms of, um, you know, all these different stages of your life. Like, is there, there are any moments to kind of stick out where you're like, yeah, this has kind of helped define me to be the person that I am today or to be the coach that I am today. Yeah, there's been times, like client stories, client here. I know people who have felt that this life isn't for them, do you know what I mean?

You don't want to be, they don't want to stick around anymore. and just go just through going through a little bit of a process with myself it's managed to change the outlook on life and to not feel that way anymore I think that was pretty powerful pretty powerful in the sense that whatever was going on like behind their closures what's going on whatever was going on in their mind

it goes on in a lot more people than what we would what we can even begin to think it happens so to make that little bit of a difference and to know that they've come to me and go my look

you know I was feeling here's how here's I was feeling and here's how I am now and that's thanks to you just taking me through this journey and it's like fucking out, do you know what I mean? It's deep. And you know what?

There are the ones that you know about, but there's probably more that you don't know about in terms of like, I know, like personally from myself, like, you know, back when I was playing football and stuff like that, even if I was going through rough patches,

you know, you go and you show up and you train with your mates or, you know, you have your coach or your manager and even having like little conversations with them. It might not be deep conversations or anything like that either,

but, you know, if it's enough to kind of, keep your mind preoccupied for an hour to make you laugh when you otherwise we're feeling like shit like there are little moments that can kind of keep you on the straight and narrow absolutely yeah i think they're the moments like they're the pivotal moments of you don't expect it you like you don't necessarily expect sometimes on like a checking or you know a client call and they just hit you with it and you're like

I've made that difference or not necessarily I'm not saying I have made that you they've made the difference but I've just kind of kept them kept them afloat or you know and then obviously the the graph starts changing

and to know that they're the moments made that yeah because sometimes you can take your job for granted and you don't realize that it can't be impactful like I think the whole the whole point of being a coach is that you're supporting someone

and sometimes you forget what kind of support looks like and it's even just being there to lend an air or to have a conversation with someone like I know being on both ends that it's really important. It's really important that people have someone that they can have their

conversations with. Yeah and that's why the fitness industry I believe that it is quite catty. It gets a little bit like, look at that PT, look at that PT, what the end of the day.

And at the end of the day, we're just out here trying to help people, do you know what I mean? And, yeah, people, if they look into that, if they look into that side of things, and like we're literally just out of here, trying to better people's lives. there's no need for the for the catiness of it all you know and I think that's a yeah that's a big thing in the industry as well it's like I think I when I started started stopping looking at what other

PTs were doing or what other PTs were saying about each other or what PTs were saying about me or what I was saying about other PTs and I just focused on you know the person in front of me the client in front of me and remembered actually that's the job. like helping people rather than worrying about the fitness industry and everything around you like it's first of all it's more enjoyable and it you're you're being more impactful in terms of your job like i think we forget that because we're where everyone's in the fitness industry is like i want as much followers as i can or i want to make as much money as i can and like forgetting that like your sole job is actually to help the person in front of you and to be the best coach you possibly can be and like that just comes from maybe lending an air or how having a conversation with someone. And like if you're doing that, like you're doing, you're doing more than most.

Yeah, and that's choice as well. That's perception. Like, it's choice that you've decided not to look at what other coaches are up to or what other coaches are saying. It's choice.

And, you know, that's like a glass half full mentality. And I think if your glass is not artful, you're just going to be resentful, aren't you? Yeah, exactly. because it's never going to end.

There's always going to be another PT or there's always going to be another coach that might say some shit that you don't like. You know, unless it's like herbal life or something, we can put a finger at them. They're free-ranged to give as much of peace as possible. Can I ask you a question? So, like, as you've evolved as a coach

and a mentor for people over the years, like how has your understanding of success and fulfillment shifted over? time. Like right now in your life, like how would you define success for yourself? So, you know, like, so my cousin at the moment, she's, she's recently been diagnosed with geoblastoma, you know, aggressive form of brain cancer, which, and she's 40 years old. She's got two young girls. There is no sort of materialistic thing. There's no Rolex. there's no

there's no X5 there's no amounts of shoes that are going to fix that and at the end of the day you know people define success

as digits but you know if you're waking up and your body feels good you know you've got good people you're surrounded by good people

and I think your ability to eliminate and deal with stressful situations because they're always going to be there your ability to deal with that that's what that then you're successful in my eyes if you know how to deal with what life can throw out you know you

instead of being overwhelmed and stressed about and being able to kind of have perspective that these little things don't matter and what matters probably is the people in my life and, you know, people are getting depressed out here because the next person's got a better car.

I mean, do you know what I mean? People are getting depressed because the best mates are just getting houses and getting married and they're not. That's nothing to be stressed about. That's something to be fucking happy for your mate about.

do you know what I mean it's just perception and it's it's a it's a time will come but how you're going to deal with your stress right now you know if you if you think that's the beauty of boxing as well as that like okay let's say when you are stressed or overwhelmed or you're falling into the comparison trap of you know this person has all these things and I don't have nothing in my life like if you go do a hard hour of boxing or sparring or something like that you kind of forget all about all that. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

And, you know, you can be from absolutely nothing. Your bank balance might be minus X amount, and you could be put in the ring with someone who's got everything, bank balance plus millions. You're on the same level when you're in the boxing gym,

and that's another beauty of it. like there's no there's no race there's no religion there's no um status yeah there's no there's no there's no us and them in boxing it's it's you just won when you're in that when you're in that boxing gym so um yeah definitely like success is um for me everyone's got their own sort of personal outlook on that and yes you know having a shed full look like i i look at money as a tool you know a means to an end

I think you can I think you can pay for things in different ways as well I think you can pay for things with your health I think you can pay for things with your time I think you can pay for things

with money you know it's just it's just if you've got a good perception if you know how to deal with stressful situations and take them and another stressful situation

pops up and you can take that in your stride and deal with it that's fucking success me to me anyway what what do you think is is is is next for you like what do you want your life to look like going forward what do what do you want in terms of what do you want to see in terms of um the boxing industry and what do you want to see in terms of the coaching boxing

industry and uh the fitness industry in general in terms of what you want to do in that space well i've got um i've got a couple of ideas uh I definitely, as long as I'm involved in boxing, I'll always pay me dues to, I'll always respect it. I'll always, I'll always respect boxing, and I'll always help people to respect it as well. And what I mean, without going off, without going off on a tangent,

is like, you know, we would like say, the white collar stuff that we were talking before, there is no such thing as a champion in white collar boxing. There is no such thing as a champion in, unlicensed, it's, it's unrecognised, okay? And I will always sort of give people the realism of it because there's people who've been training for years and years and years who are not yet,

not yet been given a title shot, and then you've got someone from the Pope down the road there who's trained for six weeks, got put in the ring in a title fight, and they're walking around, call himself a champion, that's wrong. So I'll always help these people, respect the sport of boxing and understand where they are and to use boxing as a tool to, you know, either get fit, feel good about themselves and if they want to get themselves in the ring,

why not, you know, help them do something that they've never done before. That's what I will always do whilst I'm involved in boxing. I think for myself, yeah, it's just to continue, if I can combine, if I can combine providing experiences like that for people with me coaching knowledge whether that be online or you know nutritionally strengthwise boxing

if I can combine all that and package that into one then I'll be happy so last question I'll ask you then just because if there's probably some listeners who were thinking to themselves you know what I've never boxed before but I think that's something that I might want to do in the future, but I might be a little bit nervous.

Convinced that person, why even doing it once or putting yourself through a training camp could, you know, impact the quality of their life, not only, you know, over the next eight weeks, but maybe the rest of their life.

Well, I think you'll learn something about yourself that, you know, if you're, you've got, I know, you've got a goal here. right, you're here just by going through a process, going through a journey, and then achieving and then stepping into that you've won, you know, if you're just trying to experience it, you've gone through a journey, you've stepped through the ropes, you've won,

what other things in life can you create a bit of a journey for, so, you know, I don't know, whatever that may be, what are the goals in life or whatever things in your life that you feel as though, unachievable or something that you'd never guess and you'd never think of in a million years that if you just put a little bit of a plan in place, a little bit of a journey in place and follow that through,

you know, what else can you achieve out of life? What else can you get from implementing a program, a little bit of a structure, if that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense to me, how well I enter. interpret that is like, okay, if I can if I can do something that's a little bit scary, a little bit novice to me,

but I've worked to a point where I can, you know, put myself into these uncomfortable situations that I can actually step into the ring. Like if I can do that, then, you know, going for the interview isn't going to be that scary. You know, having that conversation with someone isn't going to be that scary, you know, send that email. All these things that people like,

um, nervous about doing or talk themselves out of it like they're going to be nothing compared to stepping in the ring so if you can do that because you've put the work in all these other little uh all these other little things in life seem a little bit less don't them perfect yeah so yeah sometimes i've got it in a year but it's super hard to articulate exactly what i mean but you just don't that perfectly i think there's i think there's so many little hidden things about that. I think it's unbelievable.

I think what you're doing is great. I think it's a great way to challenge people to get people kind of move and to get people fit and basically just get them fight ready but also get them ready for life. I think that's a valuable lesson. Right, so if someone wanted to reach out

and ask you a little bit more about even training camps, I wanted to even just get your voice in terms of boxing in general, where can they reach out to find you? Instagram, Mike, Mike Action Online Coaching. I don't know if you'll tag that on, I'm not recording or whichever, but yeah, Mike Action Online Coaching. Unreal. And what's, and what, and currently in terms of coaching, do you, what services kind of do you offer people at the moment? A lot of it's hybrid.

You know, certainly online coaching, absolutely. I've got the Action All Corners program. That is still very much live. I don't necessarily put that out there because like I say when people come through the door and wanting to box or you know

if I've been involved in events before where there is a steady influx of people coming through the door that sells itself but yeah the action all corners program is brilliant for novice boxers

so I offer that service that's a fully online service and obviously if you're local to where I am I've got the hybrid service which is you know as you know So with the all-action one, you know, you'll get your nutrition, get your training and be able to go from kind of a novice boxer to start and doing something. Yeah.

There's a lot more than then. Obviously, we can help. So like I said, before, the professional boxing being a business, a lot of the emphasis is on selling tickets. The same things that I can help a boxer do to help them sell tickets. if they're going through an unlicensed or a white collar process there's a lot of things that I can do to make sure that they're not getting shafted

matched up in correctly if they don't know I've got quite a bit of knowledge on the different organisations around the country and if I don't it wouldn't take me long to find out so you know

there's plenty of things that I can do to keep people safe and obviously to make sure that people on that circuit are staying safe and they're getting what they want to get out of it rather than getting told what they're getting out of it. Make sense. And like we spoke about it as well,

like even just have that, because I presume boxing is quite a lonely sport at times as well, to have that support or someone that you can kind of bounce things off is probably going to be invaluable along their journey. Yeah, absolutely. And I just hate people to get involved in boxing and have a bad experience and think fucking boxing shite by my mind and slaggot

and then again further that slightly negative spin that some people have on boxing like I'd hate that to happen whereas they could have just with a little bit of guidance you know a bit of correct guidance they could have the best time

of the life and then sing boxing from the rooftops you know that's a that's that's what a that's what I would try and L box notes you know Mike it's been

unbelievable speaking you today I really appreciate your time thank you thank you mate thanks for watching if you like that episode and you want to see more content like this make sure you're subscribed and I'll see you on the next one