The Uneducated PT Podcast - #66 Sophia Harris | Nutritionist & food relationship coach

Episode Date: March 16, 2025

Sophia's personal journey with food and body image has been transformative. At 14, she was diagnosed with anorexia, which later evolved into binge eating and bulimia, accompanied by anxiety. After a decade-long struggle, she achieved recovery and now experiences freedom with food and exercise. This personal experience fuels her passion for helping others develop healthier relationships with food.

Okay, well, you're here now, all right, thank God. And you're also doing a talk for me tomorrow. All right, let's say, before I go into what I want to go into, what are you going to be speaking about tomorrow for my members? I am going to be speaking about how to achieve body composition goals without having a negative impact on your children's relationship with food and body image. Why is that important to you? Oh, it's so important.

We could spend the whole podcast talking about this, but we won't. Because I know there's other stuff you want to chat about. Yeah, but it is important. And to be honest, of all the episodes that I've done now, I haven't. It's not really a topic that even though I know a fair bit about from good coaches like yourself, it's not something that a topic that's being kind of on the podcast too much. So it is an important topic for people to learn about and to know about, especially people that might not know, especially what you're talking about in terms of, you know, not passing it down to the next generation.

You're poor, your poor. eating behaviours or, you know, relationship with your body and passing that down to the younger generation. Yeah. Well, I think so many of the clients we work with have body composition goals, whether that's fat loss, building muscle. As humans, we care about what we look like. That's fine. But for a lot of people who develop issues with food, disordered eating,

that can then, unfortunately, for some people, turn into an eating disorder, a lot of that can stem from a much younger age. And there's lots of different factors. factors that, you know, contribute to somebody developing problems with food. But what we are brought up around, what we see our parents go through themselves, how the people around us talk about their own bodies and food has a massive impact on kids as they grow up. And I'm all about prevention rather than cure. What would be some preventative ways that people don't pass down them unhealthy behaviours to children or for them to see that?

well, your members will find out tomorrow. Well, by the time this goes out, they'll already have heard it, so we want the broader audience to know as well. So in the presentation that I still haven't finished, I need to do that. I need to say that after we've been out tonight, oh my God. Anyway, I basically say if you want to guarantee that your own relationship with food, language with food, and the way you talk about your body isn't going to impact your kids,

the only way to guarantee that is to not diet. Yeah. But that's not, you know, people have autonomy over their bodies. Like I've said, people have body composition goals. Lots of my clients do. So that isn't the right answer. I'm not anti-diet, but I'm anti-fucking up your own relationship with food in pursuit of a smaller body.

Is that a difficult conversation to have with people who believe that them going on a diet so they can maybe reach a certain, you know, weight loss goal? That is going to be what's, you know, going to make them happy or fulfilled or content or give them peace. and, you know, being able to try and to be delicate around explaining that, okay, maybe for you to achieve what you want, you need to not do what you've been trying to do for the last 20 years. Yeah, it is a delicate conversation and it's why the way that we work with our clients is to create a safe space where they can open up about how they feel

and what they've been through in the past and diets they've tried and the way that they feel about food. but I always say to people why are you here now wanting to work with me and it's because everything they've tried has kept them going round in that cycle they're almost at a certain stage when by the time they kind of come into contact with you

they're probably already at a certain realisation that they know that what they've been you know the dio-culture world that they've been in hasn't worked for them. I'm a last resort yeah like it's like I've done I as in the people that come to me Sliming World atkins

I've cut out carbs, I have tried starvation, and now I'm ready to try something different and people don't quite know what that different thing is. But it's, it is really, really hard because so many people come to us on a health and fitness journey and they have been sucked into all of these fad diets and misconceptions about food because they've been trying to improve the health, achieve the body competition goals, eat better, you know, get into routines with exercise. It's not as though anybody starts off on a fitness journey, thinking I'm going to destroy the way I feel about food and my body.

They have all the best intentions in the world, but then it's the approach and the... Well, it's all the bullshit that's out there. It's a funny one because it's like, like you said, you're the last resort, but it's almost like when they're kind of ready, you almost appear. And I presume it's probably the same with you.

Like, I'm sure after you tried everything, like, can you tell me a little bit about that? Like, when did you realise that? Okay, there is actually something that needs to do. change here and who might have been like a positive influence on you going through that kind of road of recovery and and kind of seeing things with new eyes. That's a really good question because my history is that I had eaten disorders from a very young age. So I was diagnosed with anorexia and then that developed into binge eating and bulimia with various mental health issues as well.

And I was stuck in that cycle from like the age of 14 to 24. So long time. Yeah, 10 years of trying to help myself, but not with the right thing. So getting sucked back into diet culture, I'd start recovering a little bit, gain some way, and then freak out and, you know, go back to really restrictive behaviours. And when I was like 24, 25, I'd been using the gym for years, but for the wrong reasons, just to try and be skinny. But when I was like 23, 24, I started weightlifting. and I was naturally like really quite strong

and for the first time I started thinking oh my God like if I actually learn how to fuel my body properly and I can see what my body's capable of so for me that was still disordered as in I was pushing performance I still very much at that point cared about aesthetics and I still care about aesthetics now like I don't lie about that

but I'd sort of swapped aesthetic goals for performance and strength goals. And my physique was, you know, still, like I said, important to me. And lots of people would compliment me on what I looked like or how strong I was and ask how I was doing it. So that then fueled quite a disordered relationship with exercise, my body and food from like a fitness perspective. That makes sense.

It's like kind of like you can almost see that. Because like I always say to people that sometimes it's better to focus on performance. over aesthetics, but you can still have them disordered behaviours with performance as well. Yeah, but it's it for me and for a lot of people, it's part of the journey. Yeah. Because somebody is not going to go. And this is why, you know, when people say the gym isn't therapy. Yeah.

I have said in the past the gym isn't therapy, therapy's therapy. And I believe that. Yeah. But the gym can be therapeutic. And at some points in my life, the gym genuinely saved my life. Yeah. It can't be black and white. No.

Yeah. The gym was therapy. Somebody is not going to go. go from eating disorders to fully recovered. Yeah, I'm a flicker the switch. There's a stage. A lot of people go from eating disorders

to bodybuilding, to CrossFit, to Jiu-Irox. To Jiu-Jitsu, to Hi-Rox. No, no, no, I'm not... This is the thing as well. Yeah, it's not cheating on anything. No, and it's always the intention behind...

This is one of my quotes for you and you're going to ruin it, which was it. We need to remember that it's pretty much always the intention behind the food choice that determines if the behaviour with food is disordered or not? Yeah.

So the intention. The intention behind the food or exercise choice. Because when I moved away from eating disorders and got more into performance and like a bodybuilding style of training, my intention was to try and manipulate my physique and overly focusing on strength and performance at a detriment to other areas of my life.

So for me, that was still disorder. Whereas somebody else getting into the gym or as part of their fitness journey, if they start focusing more on pushing numbers up, building muscle, increasing strength, looking at some sort of competition, whatever it might be,

CrossFit, High Rocks, I don't know. Like, that doesn't necessarily mean that's disordered for that person. They might be doing it to see what the body's capable of, like push themselves, meet new people, get part of different communities. So it all depends on the reasons

that somebody chooses to do something. And again, manipulating your food choices and your exercise to impact your physique, that isn't disordered either unless that's the sole driving force and it's having a negative impact on social health, mental health, emotional health. Somebody becomes very preoccupied by food and starts feeling guilty about eating things that they haven't planned or, you know, if somebody isn't, well, I say isn't an athlete, athletes don't have to meticulously track everything. but I was, when I was in that phase of time

struggling with disorder eating rather than eating disorders, I was very much living like a bodybuilder, but I wasn't a bodybuilder. Does that make sense? That makes perfect sense. Yeah, and it's like, I think there could be a misconception that people, like, let's say people on the, you know, holistic or a relationship side of things,

relationship of field side of things, might have the misconception that, oh, someone wants to, you know, get really lean or going to a bodybuilding show or something, that that's disordered eating or disordered behaviours, but they're mistaken that, okay, it's the intention behind the thing rather than the actual the act of doing the thing. Or you could say the same for like,

all right, calorie counting isn't inherently bad or good or disordered or not disordered, but it's the intent behind the person doing it or whatever it is, meal plans you could, we're using scale weight. They're all just tools, but it's the person using the tool or the sport. And it's the impact that that behaviour has on the individual as well. Where someone could do it and it doesn't impact them at all and they feel great doing it and they love doing it and that's their life. And someone else wouldn't get it because they, it wouldn't be, it's not for them.

No. And it's a lot of people who have put themselves through bodybuilding and then developed disorder eating or an eating disorder because of that will then say every person that body builds has an eating disorder. Yes, yes. And you can't say that. Or they'll say tracking calories is always disordered. It's absolutely fucking not. Like, can you bodybuild in a healthy way? No.

But even bodybuilders are admitting that now. The last like five, 10 years, bodybuilders have been openly talking about how extreme what they do is. That it's a lifestyle. It's their choice. They know they're pushing their body to its limits. They wouldn't recommend... Yeah.

Their goal isn't to be the healthiest person on the planet. The goal is TV is big and ripped. And to look like that on stage. And the sensible ones as well, I hope, know that there's a timeframe with a sport like that. There's a time frame with a lot of sports. Because let's be honest, if anybody wants to be at the top of their game in any sport or any sort of competition, you have to go to extremes.

It's like anything in life. If somebody wants to build multiple fitness businesses, other areas of your life have to be compromised. You know, it's any goal to extremes is going to take over other areas of your life. But for the sorts of clients that we work with, everyday people who just want to eat a bit better, exercise more consistently. Should they be living like bodybuilders? No.

Should some of them be tracking calories? Yes. Should others of them not be tracking calories? Yes. It depends on the individual. And when we've got coaches who have been burnt by bodybuilding or Crossfield, or whatever it is in the past, saying that these behaviours are always disordered

or nobody should do this. It's not helpful because we need to be looking at the individual in front of us. People are just living through to their own experiences. It means they're still suffering. Yeah. Not necessarily that they're suffering with like food issues, but they haven't fully processed or dealt with their own past.

No, I get it because I would probably have done the same in the past even with anything with fitness, with business, whatever it is. So I found a way of doing something and therefore it is great. And then that way stopped to work and therefore now it's terrible and it doesn't work. Whereas I have done the same. I would have done the same. You know, there was a period of time where I would have said, anybody who overeats on an evening should eat breakfast the next morning to break that cycle.

Whereas actually, even when I was saying that, and you deep down that we can't talk about things like this. black and white terms, should most people who overeat on an evening get up and have breakfast the next day, regardless of overeating to break that cycle, of course they should. But then, you know, some of my clients who are maybe one of the issues they've come to me with is overeating on an evening, but maybe they have a really stressful, hectic morning, or they're travelling first thing, or some of my clients who are medicated for different things, the medication first thing makes them feel sick.

So there's, you know, that advice isn't going to work for them. Yeah, yeah. I even find myself doing it as well and then I have to catch myself doing it and saying like, oh yeah, have breakfast. Yeah, you should definitely have breakfast. It's going to stop you from overeating, uh, true of the day because you're going to feel full and satisfied and like, well, that might actually not work for that person. Yeah. Like as well, a lot of clients I work with a neurodversion. So if I'm working with somebody who has ADHD, yeah. And they have, so regardless of being medicated or not for ADHD, most people with ADHD, not all, but most will have less of an appetite earlier in the day. So medication can impact that or just a very busy brain can impact that. So for a lot of people with ADHD, yes, we do want them having breakfast. But for some of my clients, it's appropriate for them to have more of an eating style where they don't eat as much earlier in the day because on an evening, they sit down with their family, they want to be able to eat a little bit more on an evening. That's when they enjoy food.

so for them it makes sense to not have to eat first thing in the morning if they don't want to and actually be able to eat a little bit more later on. When you stick to them rigid rules for that person, it might not fit them and it's just going to cause them more stress than anything else. Yeah, rigid fixed rules with food are not healthy for most people. Even when you think as a coach that you're doing right by your client because it has worked for you in the past to say someone, you know, have a big high-protee breakfast at the morning.

I mean, but that is generally good advice for most people. And that's the trap that you'll fall into as a coach. It is. And a lot of our clients want fixed rules because they're confused, they're overwhelmed, they're busy, they're stressed. They want to pay us to just tell them what to do. So they need guidance and structure, but they have to learn how to be flexible with that.

Is my phone going off going to impact the audio? No, I don't think so now. That's fine. So one quote that I wanted to go through with Jeff. actually on top of that. So you'll see lots of people, this I really liked this. You'll see lots of people this week sharing before and after picks

of eating disorder recovery, which often reinforces that eating disorders look a certain way. These posts are well intended, but often unhelpful. Go into that. So obviously where we've finished that conversation talking about the mistakes we can make as coaches or people on social media trying to give out good messages,

maybe by sharing our own stories. Why could that be? harmful. So I actually need to start talking about this by saying that I used to post that sort of content. Yes. Probably. That's how, yeah, it's like you know to give this type of advice because you went through the mistakes. Yeah. And I, it's when somebody has done something as incredible and life changing as recovering from an eating disorder, you do want to share your story to, for me, It was about showing people that it's possible. Yeah.

Like, so many people ask me, will I ever be free from these disordered thoughts around food? Is it something I'll always have to be aware of? And now, I mean, I can come here and run around Dublin and eat at one. Part of every stranger in the place. Get last about three times you did. Monthry. Make friends with everyone. But yeah, and I can just like float around.

And when I'm hungry, have something. Like, yes, you know, I'll try and think about. protein but it doesn't stress me that do you know what I mean? It's if it doesn't happen perfectly on any given day. Yeah and I never thought I would get to that place. I saw other people do it and I thought I'm different. You know, it's not possible.

Yeah. But it's 100% possible to recover fully from eating disorders. So I think people love attaching a visual to recovery and look, Instagram is a visual platform. form. And the visual when we see eating disorders is someone quite thin and under-nourished essentially. Well, that's what people think. But that's 6% of people who have an eating disorder. Only 6% of people with an eating disorder are underway. The majority of people who are struggling with an eating disorder are in healthy-looking bodies. And I say it like that because somebody can be healthy,

but have any healthy looking but have an eating disorder and then you know so the rest of the people either healthy looking or in a larger body well I didn't share that part of the quote but you said that as well you said essentially that it doesn't have a look no any shape and size or type or ability of body can struggle with an eating disorder and when we look at somebody and assume that they are healthy

purely based on their body, we are disregarding the majority of people that struggle with food. And if it's such a privileged position as well for me to be a slim white female who had an eating disorder, got treatment and support very easily through my GP because I was like the typical, like you said,

the typical underway, blonde, white female going to their doctor saying I'm struggling to eat and, you know, I want to lose weight all the time. So I'm very privileged and it's so much easier for me to access medical support and treatment and have empathy than it is for other people in different types of body. Yeah, like someone could look at someone and say, what are you talking about? You look great. I'd love to have your physique. Well, this was the thing as well, right? So in that 10 years that I was struggling with eating disorders, I had the most compassion, understanding, concern when I was anorexic. But then when that developed into binge eating and bulimia and I gained weight, nobody was bothered.

I was making myself throw up after the majority of the meals that I ate. Yeah, people were just like, oh, well, she looks healthy. So, and obviously with bulimia, it's very, it's such a, shamefully eating disorder and it's very secretive. And it's really easy to hide as well, unfortunately. So people didn't necessarily know, but they just assumed that because I looked better and I had more weight on my body, then I was fine. And then from there, I gained more weight. I don't want to disclose the, like, weight I was or the dress size that I was because again, and I don't think that's really relevant,

but substantially bigger than I am now. And that was when people thought, oh, she's let herself go. Like, does she even train or, like, exercise anymore? And again, that's very difficult because I still had an eating disorder in that body. So it's just really, really narrow-minded to think that eating disorders do look a certain way I understand why people want to post their physical transformations.

Well, it's again, like we spoke about your, they're speaking through the lens of their life experience. Yeah. Without thinking that, okay, because they looks this way, but other people may not. But it's also really difficult because, like, you have to then, when you're putting out your messaging online, you have to, you, a lot of times we're just thinking about ourselves

or this is going to help this person that I want help because this person is like me. So you're only thinking about that subset of people. You're not thinking about the, it's not even in your vision to think about the broader levels of that. It's not. But if people talk about food relationship and body image and claim to specialise in that.

And I was talking about food relationship when I have shared posts like that myself. So I fully hold my hands up. But like when we know better, we do better, right? And I think that's why it's so important that we don't isolate people, from this conversation about issues with food. Because then it makes people question,

oh, well, am I ill enough? Do I need support? Like, my transformation doesn't look anything like that. A lot of people gain weight through an eating disorder recovery journey. Some people will lose weight. Some people's bodies will stay the same. It's not about the physical body. Well, it is, but it's a psychological mental illness.

And it reduces the accessibility of support and treatment. for people who are suffering. Also, 25% of people with eating disorders are males as well. How many men do we see talking about eating disorders? Yeah, it's almost, you have to fit a certain box to be able to suffer from this or to receive help from this. Well, it's like saying an eating disorder is a skinny white female who gets into the gym, builds muscle, but is still lean.

That's what you see on social media. You also spoke about when you started, share your struggles and your own journey. Do you think that helped you in the healing process itself? By the time I was talking about it online, I've been recovered for like three, four years. I am really passionate about talking about things in hindsight. So anything that I talk about,

obviously I'll talk about some stuff that doesn't deeply impact me in the moment, but if it's anything that's like a current struggle, like I've had a recent diagnosis, a few months back that I haven't actually spoke about online. I've, like, hinted at a few times, but... You're still a process, don't it? No, no, I've done that.

Yeah. I wouldn't have even hinted it online because I wouldn't want questions on it. And for me, processing is away from the internet. It's with my husband. It's with my best friends. It's on my own. Yeah.

Like, that's how I process. And I'm not saying if people do go straight to social media, that's always wrong. That might be their way of processing and dealing. but for me, for me to be able to talk about things from a safe space for myself and my audience and my business and my clients, which, you know, myself, my business, my clients,

that's always my number one priority. Then that has to be from as much of a healed place as we're going to get. Yeah, yeah, because it's very important. The advice that you give, you're very reassured about the advice you're giving that you're not going to harm someone over there. Yeah, yeah.

And I think this is the thing as well with social media. not advice, is it? Because anybody can come on our platforms. But it comes back to, if you talk about issues that are really traumatic for a lot of people, you know, eating disorders have a really high mortality rate. So when we're talking about things like that that are really complex and impact so many more people than we could ever realize, then you do have a certain responsibility with the stuff that you're putting out. And I haven't always got it right. And I don't think anyone has, but speaking on the fitness industry and coaches and people sharing their stories and so on and so far, another quote from you that I really like,

practicing what you preach as an online coach is not your ability to stick to a calorie deficit. Can you explain that one for the listeners? What do you think makes a good coach or a really terrible coach? We should do a whole podcast on this because I am at my wits end with business mentors. Your body is your business card though. Yeah, it's fucking lazy business mentoring. Yeah. To say... But do you think they're the type of coaches that the people, again,

like yourself when you were younger or like the clients who come to you before, who were trying to solve these issues before they come to you, they're the type of people that they fall into the hands of which only makes things worse rather than... Unfortunately, which is why me and Dan set up TCCC, because when we were at IFS and Abitha, I actually spoke at IFS about ADHD and nutrition, but then as I was in conversations with people, we were having cocktails by the pool,

it was really cool, you'd have loved it. Like, people were just opening up about their own relationships with food and their own body image and how they felt, and it was all coaches. And some people in the fitness industry who, even I was like, oh my, and I didn't say this to them, but I never would have thought that they were struggling or, you know, had their own struggles.

And then since we've started TCC, some of the people that, because we work with most coaches anonymously, understandably so, some of the people that have reached out, I'm like, oh my gosh. So it's that narrative, your body is your business card.

Not all businessmen are. Explain for people who are to be listening. Why do you think that's damaging or detrimental to, why is it a damaging message? Because it's saying to fitness business owners that you have to look a certain way to be able to build your business and get clients. Your worth and value and business success is tied up in your physique. And again, if we go back to eating disorders look in a certain way, it's like the opposite of that in some ways. It's like fitness looks like this.

Yes. Put into the box. But we know as coaches, we should be making fitness accessible for everybody. every type of body, shape, size, weight, ability, like gender, everything, fitness is for everybody and it doesn't look a certain way. So when business mentors are saying you need to be lean, you need to be have lots of muscle mass, you need to do photo shoots, you've got to, the new one seems to be document your own photo shoot diet on Instagram

and update all your followers with what you're doing because that's practicing what you preach. how many of your clients, this is me asking you, how many of your clients do you diet to extremes for a photo shoot? Me, none, I've never. So I've done it twice

with two clients that I'd worked with long term who asked, they worked on the food relationship and they were like, it wasn't this big group gym transformation. And to be fair, I was like, it's not really my vibe, but... But you're working, like you even just suggested, You're working people at face value to them,

to their goals, to the context of the situation. And as long as they stayed with me after, it's fine. Like some, I've done gym photo shoots. I've dieted for gym photos shoots. See, I haven't. So that's why it was never in my realm to, to, like I've got people to lean, lean level of body fat and stuff like that.

But it just, it's just never being. It's not on your radar. No. Now, I haven't for three, three and a half years now. Would I diet for a gym photo shoot again? I might. Like, I don't hate dieting. I'm not ruling that out.

Again, it's not the thing. It's the intention behind the drug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like, dieting is just not on my radar right now. And again, I'm privileged to be able to say that. But anyway, so the whole, your body is your business card, practicing what you preach, walking the walk. It's all tied in to what you look like and your body fat levels

and how much muscle mass you've got and how you then display that on social media. But we, practicing what we preach, so I don't know about you, but I preach to my clients, food freedom, nourishing their bodies, intentional choices with food where they are focusing on nutritious choices, moving every day, resistance training, sleeping, stress management, but then eating dinner with their kids and not having to cook food separately, having a slice of cake on a weekend with friends if they go to a coffee shop and they want a slice of cake. That is what I preach.

and that is what I live. Yeah. So unless all of these coaches that are documenting their fat loss phases for photo shoots who think that their body is their business card, unless they are taking the majority of their clients through that process, it isn't what they preach. And again, it comes back to,

if I look a certain way, I'll get more inquiries. Yeah. But actually, when I realized that the shape and size of my body has fuck all to do with my value as a coach. That was when my business went from paying the bills to, I hate talking about, substantially more than that. And I needed to take coaches on and I've now got three businesses in the fitness industry.

I think that goes to show anything for coaches listening. It's okay, you are completely comfortable in who you are and know who you are by doing that. Whereas like, I even had this conversation with one of the young lads who trains in my gym and he just got his personal training cert. And he was asking about clients and stuff like that and about running a business. And one thing that he said to me when we were just in mid-conversation was like, oh yeah, I'm just, I'm not big enough yet though to get some clients out.

So another seven months of training and then I'll be ready. And I just stopped them there and his tracks and I was like, you just came out to me asking about business. are twice the size of me. All right. The reason that I get clients or my business is successful has nothing to do where I look. It's who you are. Yeah, it's who you are.

Yeah, it's how you support people. And also as well, what is it, 70% of PTs leave the industry within two years. Two years, yeah. I think if these PTs, not all of them that leave, but if a lot of them think their body is their business card, they're excessively restricting, probably binge eating, hating, hating themselves when they look in the mirror, they're low on energy, their brain function is reduced. They don't have creativity. They're not showing up for their clients in the best way because they're so preoccupied with their own bodies, that's going to result in business failure,

not, you know, your body not looking a certain way. And every time I say this, I get come back from male business mentors, not all male business mentors. I work with a great male business mentor with it's easy for you to say because you're in shape and I'm like right should I shut up about the evidence I know to be true should I shut up about what I know is the fact for the majority of coaches in the fitness industry that work with gem pop clients moms who are working and have a social life and have hobbies and just want to learn how to get more protein in and yeah maybe they've got a body composition goal maybe they do want to feel a bit more comfortable in their clothes than they do right now.

That's cool. But it's not cool to sacrifice their quality of life and overall health for a physique goal. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the biggest mistake is that it happens to Gen Pop Clines, but it also then, like you said, it happens to people who are just coming into the industry trying to make your business is that, you know, the fitness industry caters to fitness rather than caters to people, like people who are into fitness rather than people who are into helping people. And then, you know, they, they end up just falling for the same trap that I need to look a certain

way in order to be successful because, you know, that's what the fitness industry is telling me. And yeah, like you said, it's like if you are in incredible shape in the gym, well, a lot of people that actually are the ones that are going to pay you are probably too intimidated to come up to you anyway. Well, it's probably not all the time now, obviously that, but like sometimes you would rather just go to someone who you feel less intimidated by, and it might be because they might just look a little bit more like you or a little bit more approachable.

Yeah, yeah. And people have said this to me, like, that when people are really ripped and lean, it can be intimidating and it isn't relatable. Yeah. But also as well, like, when we work with clients, I don't know about you, but I want my clients to be with me six months a year,

I'm not just supporting them with their nutrition and a training program. It's so much deeper than that. It's the overall impact that food and fitness and health has on their life. Whereas if somebody is a transformation, fat loss coach, and they are running eight-week shred programs, is it more relevant for their body to be the business card? I'm not going to say that's right,

because I don't believe that's true. But, again, it depends on the type of coach as to them and the messaging they're putting out and the sorts of clients they work with as to what's appropriate. I think that's absolutely fair. The issue and the problem comes to what we just spoke about is that it ends up being the wrong people fall into the wrong coaches then.

The person that doesn't need this, the eight-week shred ends up, you know, the one who's been struggling with their way for the last 10 years ends up going to that person thinking that that's going to be the saving grace. And then it's just, you know, Groundhog Day, same things, same issues coming up. Well, yeah, because most people who are struggling with, binge eating or yo-yo dieting will pursue fat loss above recovery. Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's really, really hard because like, you know,

a lot of my friends that are coaches would probably say, yeah, part of my body is my business card and, you know, a lot of people would say it does matter what I look like. And I'm not going to say it doesn't. I'm not going to say as coaches we shouldn't have physique goals. but when you look at the top athletes in the world, some of their coaches have never even competed in the sports that they compete, let alone look like athletes. And it's like that whole joke that people make of,

well, you know, I pay a decorator, but he never does any work on his own house. We have the knowledge and the power and the capacity to change people's lives. And that is the biggest fucking privilege in the way. the world. And I am not going to have anybody tell me that what I look like has anything to do with my coaching capabilities. Because, and again, I need to make a reel on this. So before I got married, over four years ago in lockdown, I actually gained weight into my wedding because I was

so stressed I was coming for eating. It was when we were, do you remember when we went, lockdown feels like a different world. Do you remember we went into, was it late? Was it? what was it? When we went into different, there were different areas. Oh yeah, you had the 5K, was it the 5K areas

that you could go into? Oh, fuck, that's what you guys did. It's like being on the other side of the world in the way. But in England, it was, there was different levels

and some places could open up. Oh, yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, you have different restrictions. Like you could, you couldn't eat in here, but you could eat just outside or, you could have a drink outside.

Yeah, yeah, something like, It was something like that. So basically, we were travelling to get married in a different level. So we didn't know if the wedding rules from where we were applied or where we were going. Yeah. And we had a wedding. Our first wedding had got cancelled and we'd lost a lot of money because I'd used loads of small businesses and paid deposits and they couldn't give me the money back. Yeah.

But we'd booked a new wedding for 15 people, which were the rules in our area. but the next day the day before we were getting married they were announcing the latest. So I was sat there refreshing a news app at like three in the morning for two weeks before the wedding. Like

just stressy in stress as you could get. And then I nearly fucking didn't fit in my wedding dress because I'd had my last fit in and then just ate and you know foods are valid coping mechanism. Probably should have used some other stress management techniques. I mean I did but anyway.

So yeah, gained a few pounds. And I remember my four best friends from school that I used to live with with my bridesmaids. And one of them, she was like, like, suck in. I need to do your dress up. I was like, I'm sucking in. I'm sucking out. I've got nothing else to wear. Get it up.

Anyway, so my whole point is this was four and a half years ago. Yeah. And because I'd gained, I don't know. know how many pounds, quite a few. Yeah. Did my capacity to support my clients change? Was I a worst coach? Did I know less?

Just because I was heavier. Yeah. You were just gone through life as people go through. Well, our bodies are supposed to change. Yeah, they're supposed to be. Like, that's normal and healthy and, yeah, I'm just sick of shitty, easy mentoring. because a lot of coaches that are confused who struggle with their own food relationship and body image

go to these mentors for help and support and a lot of these mentors are even struggling with food themselves. So they believe, not all of them, but they believe that their own body is or was their business card when they were a coach, they're filtering it down to their coaches who are then filtering disordered stuff down into their clients. So it's like this whole fucked up.

Yeah. So here's a question for you then. What do you think needs to change or improve for the fitness industry to improve in regards to that? Regulation, which isn't going to happen. Yeah, because I was going to say that because I remember I started in the industry eight years ago. And back then I remember people talking about, oh, yeah, the fitness industry is regulated. I remember doing my personal trainer and such like that. And, you know, I ended up getting a job in a gym and then someone got a job straight after me. And I was like, oh, what course did you do? I didn't do any course. Oh, yeah. And then he went straight into the pros train. And then I realized, oh, there's no one, there's no one in charge. You care so much at the start, don't you? And then you realize there's nothing.

I mean, anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, we, but this is the thing, right? Our NHS refer people to Sliming World for weight loss support. Yeah, Sliming World team leaders that run the groups. Have no. It's only people that have lost weight. on the Slimming World that then pay the fee to set up a group.

That's what our government think is okay. I mean, let's not go there. So this is never going to, we're never going to be regular. Yeah, it has to be a systemic change. It can't come from coaches deciding that they want to be better with their messaging because not all are going to care or not all know better to care. This was, I have many businesses. ideas. This was one, like a community of coaches that are leading from the front and the

CPD. Anyway, I don't have time to do it right now, but maybe one day. Because it is important. But what would I want to, I just think if coaches work with everyday people, they need to be talking about food relationship and body image. I am not a food relationship specialist who, like, like thinks that that terms mine and nobody. I'm like, every coach needs to be talking about this. They need to educate themselves on it. They need to deal with their own shit. Because if coaches have issues with their own food relationship,

that can lead to imposter syndrome and them thinking, oh, I shouldn't be working with clients. You should. It's fine. Let's go back to what I was saying about a decorator, never painting his own house. But you need to work on your own shit so that you can then eventually grow and develop more in this area.

should still be. If you work with Genpop clients or everyday people, because I know clients will be listening to this and they'll be like, what's Gem pop? But just everyday people who have families and careers and hobbies and lives and emotions outside of discipline and willpower, then, you know, we all need to be talking about this and learning about different ways we can support our clients

with their food relationship and body image. Okay, and then last question I'll ask you before we wrap it up because obviously we've a lot to go through over the next. today. I think we'll stay on the topic of coaches because I think this will be a valuable episode for actually people who are getting into the fitness industry. What advice would you have then for a coach who wants to make the most out of their career, but do it in a way that is maybe ethical, that they have kind of similar values to you? Like what would you say to yourself when you started your business? I wouldn't change a thing. I, with my business,

I've always jumped in headfirst, said yes, fuck about and find out. Fuck about, ask people in Ireland, where do I go? I mean, seven years in, and I'm doing all right. Yeah. I wouldn't change anything because all of the times I've fucked up, I've learnt and I've come back stronger and better. I think the first piece of advice is say yes to everything.

Figure it out as you go. Do not give a shit what anybody thinks. So many coaches I speak to and I work with, themselves back because of what somebody they went to primary school on Facebook will think or because of what other coaches will think. You're not going to be successful if that's what you do. You've got to be different. You've got to stand out.

You can't worry about what other people are going to say about you. No, because they're not paying you. Yeah. I remember when I started posting online eight years ago and like even all my friends were like what I knew, like, they didn't even say to me, but I knew they were like laughing and talking and being like, what is he doing? And then a few years later they were like, oh yeah, I get it now. Yeah, yeah.

It's not for them together. No, no. Like, yeah. Have fun. Love what you do. Like, every day I wake up and I'm like, I cannot, I can't believe this is work. Like, you were just driving around, trying to fire me. I was like, this is work.

Fucking hell. But yeah, it's like, yeah, love what you do, but it's going to be fucking hard. You have to be prepared to be shit at the start. Yeah. Most people aren't. It's really the same advice that you're almost given. a Genpop client when you're trying to get them to get into fitness

it's like they're coming in with that perfectionist mindset that they want to get, they don't want to start until they get everything right or till all the circumstances are perfect. I'll get a PT when I'm fitter. Yeah, what is that? But no, I get it.

Or all, as the PT, like my friend, I'll go for clients when I'm in better shape. Yeah, we'd be waiting forever than me. It's like, yeah, I was reflecting, which I do a lot. on the way here because I haven't finished a presentation I'm doing tomorrow. I will finish it. It's going to be amazing.

But the first bigger public talk that I did was at the first FET Expo, which was in 2020. It was in summer. Was it 2020 or 2021? Anyway, it was fucking horrendous. Like, I feel ill at how bad I was. I've got it on video. So you can send up to me

I'll judge for you. Do you know what? I love it because I'm like, wow. Yeah. I am so proud. I fucking got up and did that. I was terrified. My legs were shaking.

I felt sick. And I've worked loads on, like, I still am terrified of public speaking. The first five minutes at your event tomorrow, I will be shaking. I will want to throw up. They will be dry. Yeah.

I'll be like stumbling over my words. But then I'll get it. into it and I actually can enjoy it whereas back then I hated every second but I knew what I talk about the way I do things the capacity I have to support people not just one to one but in the way that I communicate stuff for the type of people that relate to things in that way I knew that I had to get on stage and be able to talk about it so I knew that I had to keep pushing and I think yeah you've got to not be scared to be shit yeah The first talk I did, first podcast.

In fact, even before that talk at Fair Expo, I'd done loads of corporate work. I'd run face-to-face workshops. I had done quite a lot of public speaking, just not on like a big stage. So yeah, you've got to be shit. Don't care what people think. It's on you. Like, nobody is going to do this for you. It's that word consistency, relentless consistency.

say, and I'm not saying, you know, if somebody is in the depths of like a mental health struggle, take a step back. It's not like excessive hustle culture kind of message. Well, I mean, it is and it isn't. Like, I am relentless in how consistent I am at showing up. I haven't had a really horrendous mental health period or like traumatic family issue that I've had to deal with. Luckily, very luckily, since I've been running my businesses, I've had shit. We all go through shit.

But I have shown up consistently regardless. And just like we say to our clients on a fitness journey, if you can't do what you would normally do because of what you've got going on, just do something. Stay in that routine. At the end of the day, if you're a business owner and people are paying you to support them with their nutrition and fitness, you can't take, I was going to say you can't say you can't take a day up. You can if you want. Yeah. I don't know. I understand what you're saying. Like I work, I pretty much work every day. But I work every day to, it's not, doesn't impact

my well-being or my quality or life or my relationships. Like I actually enjoy doing it. And it's like you talk, you just spoke about for the whole podcast. It's the intention behind the action. That matters. 100%. And like, people say if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life. I think if you do what you love, you'll work harder than you've ever fucking worked. Yeah, I was the worst employee in the world for anywhere that I worked. I was awful. But I work really high for myself because I like doing all they do. But hard work with what you love.

Like technically, I was talking to the taxi driver, of course I was. Talk to everyone. And he was like, oh, what are you in Dublin for? I was like, work? And then I was like, is it work? I don't even know anymore. And then he was like, what do you do? And I was like, how do?

And it was like an old, I was like, how do I even? I was like, oh, I'm a nutritionist. It's the best job in the world. because it is. I genuinely believe that. There's nothing I would rather do. And that, you know, yes, I know I need time with my husband. I need time with my friends.

If I haven't messaged my best friend in like a week, she's like, come on, like get off your phone, get off your laptop, let's go for a walk. And my husband's exactly the same. It'll come into my office and be like... We need to talk. No, it'll be like, right, you've not moved from your desk for six hours. Me and the dogs want to sit on the sofa and we'll be like...

watch Netflix and have dinner with you. So then I shut my laptop and I go. And it's like you have to have people in your life and for people starting a business, have people in your life that will do that. But you have to work hard. Yeah. And you can't come into it. This is a difficult one as well.

I was talking about this on another podcast like boundaries. People coming to setting up a business thinking, I've got boundaries. I'm not going to reply to messages at this time. I'm only going to work between these hours. Good luck. Yeah. Like, and I do have boundaries. I do.

And I have to for my own. I'm saying, anyway, maybe three times. No, but you almost do, especially initially, you don't have any, and you learn, but your boundaries have to be flexible.

If one of my clients needs me and I see a message from them at 8pm, doesn't mean I'm going to then go on a Zoom call with them for two hours on a, Tuesday night. But if I see a message and I know that they're going through something and they need me,

I'm going to fucking reply. I'm a human. I'm working with humans. Like, it doesn't mean we run ourselves into the ground and we destroy our own mental health and our own relationships. But actually,

this is a really good one for people setting up a fitness business as well. I pretty much keep my business and fitness completely separate from my best friends and my family. Because... Explain that.

Well, I love an overshare. Like, I overshare with my personal stir. Well, some people would say overshare, but I'm like, if you think that's an overshare, I've got no fucking idea what's going on here. What's going on next? Like, if that's oversharing, like, be in my head for 10 minutes,

you will be like, whoa, like, you were tame with that post or blog or whatever. But, like, my relationships... have took me, it's took me a long time to let my walls down in my personal life. And my best friends have always been my best friends, like literally since school. I don't know how they've put it with me for so long. But I don't want to be spending time with my best friends and then thinking of that as business time. Or like I'm creating content.

I don't want to be, you know, when me and my husband go away, I'll take pictures of food. When I'm out for a walk, I'll do a Q&A while we're traveling or I'll be on my lap, do you know what I mean? But when it's me and him, it's me and him.

He has me 100%. That makes perfect sense. It's why two of my best friends they don't even have Instagram and I love that. They don't have any social media. It's just not, it's just not there. I don't follow any of my friends.

Like, a lot of them don't follow me. Like, it's not that they don't support me. You know, and God, you know, when people post, what is that meme that's like, nobody supports you more than your friends and family than somebody on... Oh, yeah, on social...

Basically having a dig saying your friends and family don't share your post. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody's just on their phone for a bit of fun. It's not that deep. Yeah, 100%. It really isn't. Yeah, that's people have a vendetta against the world

because they haven't quite made it yet or something. Or maybe they have, and it hasn't been through the support of friends and family. Also, if you want a really successful business, the support of friends and family isn't enough. Yeah, yeah. If they do support you, that's a bonus. Don't rely on it.

No. But yeah, I think having not being fully absorbed with fitness is important. Well, I think that's the, like when we talk about, okay, you're going to work harder than you've ever worked before and you're going to work all the time. But then if you can't separate them two things, then like it's a blessing to be able to go out and see your friends and not talk about fitness and not talk about business. not be the nutritioner. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Like, it's, it's, and then you actually feel recharged when you do go back to a business. Yeah.

I mean, this is the thing as well, right? Some people, because I'm not saying the way that I do that is right for everyone. Yeah. Some people's social life will be in fitness. Some people's friends will be into fitness. It just so happens that mine aren't. I do have friends in fitness. I have incredible friends that I've met from the fitness industry that I just love and would not change for the world.

But then I have my life outside of that. as well. Do you think then it's important that if you're going to be successful in any area, whether it's, you know, fitness or business or improving your relationship with food, you need to really spread out, I want to say spread out your relationships, but spread out what kind of success is in regards to, okay, like, you know, having great friendships is, you know, one part of your success that has nothing to do with your business, has nothing to do with fitness. You know, another area is your business and that's another area. area you can look at in terms of success and almost having these not kind of heavily

relying on one thing to be the pinnacle of your self-worth. Yeah, that's so important. And probably something I've realised more the last two or three years as I've been focusing on more on self-regulation. And because I'm like quite a hyper person. Like I'm always like, oh, I'm chaotic. I'm actually like, I'm maybe chaotic on the outside. But that's me having fun. I couldn't tell stuff. That's me having fun. Like, I've worked a lot on being calm and regulated and making great decisions. And that was when, I mean, I've always loved the simple stuff in life. But along the way, this is many years ago, I used to be a financial advisor. I was a banker. I was obsessed with being a millionaire. I thought that would make me happy.

I actually had, sorry, this is going off on a topic and I know you've got other people to come on the podcast. I actually had that within my grasps from a career perspective and an old relationship. So the first guy that I bought a house with. Oh yes, I see when I was doing my research on you, I found this as well. Do not buy a house.

We're going to need an hour and a half podcast for that one. Yeah. So I had that within my graph. Yeah. My old boss wanted me to part buy him out of the business, the financial advising business I used to work for. I was really young. And obviously I was like, oh my God, yeah, that's amazing.

And then I was like, but what would it change? And how would that make me happy? And actually, what I would have had to do to maintain all of that, it wasn't worth it. That's the great analogy of the client that's, looking to lose 10 kilos because they're going to think that that's going to make them happy

and they don't know what what it means to maintain that as well. And also it's like if you've lost the 10 kilo or if you burn 5 million or whatever it might be what changes around you fucking nothing

apart from you might end up destroying relationships and your own sanity your relationship with food in the process. And for me that just wasn't we don't look at any of them hidden metrics.

We look at the one metric, the one sexy metric in front of us? Well, because it's that fixed thing. Yeah. Like, it's something to focus on. So yeah, I had that within my grasp and I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know what success looked like. But I knew it wasn't that relationship. I knew it wasn't that career. So that was when I set fire to my life. We'd just, well, we had, we bought the house quite recently, all our friends intertwined. And I remember when I was talking to somebody, one of my friends at the time about leaving him. And she was like, well, you can't.

She got bills together. I was like, fuck me. If that's a reason to stay in a relationship, I'm gone quicker. I was like, bills, money. And then I was like, I don't give a fuck about money. Like. Yeah, that was the, that was probably the self-awareness that you needed. Yeah. And that was when I realized I don't give a fuck about money.

So I was then free. And obviously, I say I don't give a fuck about money. Again, I'm privileged. Like, I've always been able to pay my bills. Because I was in banking. like. Yeah, it's not going to be the number one driver to your, to the life that you want to create. Well, I wish I could coach for free. That is like one of my business aims is to get to a point where financially the business is in a good enough position where I can volunteer, I can work with

kids, I can. And it's, you're through different schemes that the government pay and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's hard because when people are financially invested, they are more like. They're more committed, yeah. They'll take what you're saying a lot more serious. But there's ways that I could get a smaller financial investment from people for the sort of support I can offer. Well, like the financial investment is going to look different on each person. You know, what cost someone could be more,

someone could throw two grand at you for a couple of weeks coaching and it might be nothing to them. And then they're not going to be committed to anyway. And that's somebody's like life savings. Yeah, exactly. They're working towards. Yeah, someone else could give you a hundred quid and that could be everything to them

because they're literally struggling to put field on the table. Yeah, yeah. So I think, yeah, knowing what success looks like is very, very important. But for me, success is how I live every day. Success isn't this, like, place I'm going to get to in 10 years' time. Arbitrary number or anything like that.

Success is me being able to wake up, like even waking up, that's great, isn't it? Like being able to go for a little walk on my own first thing to regulate and ground myself, do a bit of writing work, take the dogs out, do my check-ins, go to the gym, then I do my Zoom calls and podcasts, have dinner with my husband. Like that's... What you do now? Yeah.

Wouldn't change a thing. I just want more time to do more. Yeah. I always say that as well. It's like we're always so set on setting goals and creating big achievements, but like no one really just actually looks at their date. day life and decides, well, how do I want to spend my days? Because how you spend your days is how you're going to spend your life. And ultimately, it could be successful every day if you create

that way that you actually, I actually wouldn't change how I spend my day. I love how I spend my day. Like if you, if you can get to that stage and be aware of that, like that's the pinnacle of success probably. You can have both though, set goals and with you every day. But yeah, you quit online and went back to phase to phase, didn't you? Because you wanted that in person. Yeah, I just wasn't happy with my day to day, how my day today looked and I wanted just a better quality of life for me. And you know, it's funny, it was like, but like five years ago and I was doing it, it worked really well for me and I loved every minute of it. So it's like, it's not that one thing's wrong and one thing's right, but it was just right for me at that time.

And then it was wrong for me at another time of my life. And maybe my values change a little bit. I don't know. But we do. We change. so much as we, like, I look back at some of the stuff I used to say, like, 10 years ago. And I'm like, oh, my God, like, can't believe I thought that or did that. You know, when you go through Facebook memories and it's like, whoa. Yeah, yeah. But isn't it that great? What's that great saying?

Like, if you don't look back on your life a couple of years ago and cringe, then you probably haven't grown. Yeah. Yeah. And to be fair, I look back in some stuff. I'm like, yeah, I still think that. Yeah. A lot of stuff, I'm like, wow, I'm so glad I've moved on from that.

That was a bad guy. That's not so much. Yeah, I was like, oh, I feel bad for her. Sophia, we're going to have to do this again and do it longer. Because obviously we don't have the time today with everything going on tomorrow. But I definitely would like to do, you know, a big two-hour podcast, which is diving deeper into a couple more things that we didn't really get to talk about. But if for people that are listening now,

if they wanted to follow up on your work or maybe ask you any questions or inquire about coaching, where can they go to find you? The best place is probably Instagram. Sophia underscore Apollo underscore nutrition. Okay. Brilliant, we'll put it in the show notes done and dusted.