The Uneducated PT Podcast - #69 Matt Jones / How To Be A Runner

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

In this episode of the podcast we speak to Matt Jones who has been coaching for 13 years and helps runners improve their performance. Learn about tempo runs, what the 80/20 rules is, what runners to use, how to reduce the risk of injury and much more.This is a great episode full of information I hope you enjoy. 

Hello and welcome to the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carlo Rourke. The goal of this podcast is to bring on interest and knowledgeable people from all walks of life, learn a little something from each conversation and for you, the listener, just learn something from each episode. So don't forget to subscribe to the channel, press the box below, show some support and I'll see you on the next episode. Okay, welcome back to the uneducated PT podcast. Today we have Matt Jones coming on to talk about all things in terms of running

or runners or people inspired to maybe become. hum runners and some of the kind of pitfalls and mistakes that they might make. So we're going to go into all of that and we're going to extract as much knowledge as we can out of Matt. But before we get into that, will you, Matt, just start by telling the listeners a little bit about yourself, about the work you do and how you came to getting into this role or into this job? Firstly, thanks for having me.

It's awesome to be here. I think we, you know, I'm sure we'll get into it, but I'm sure we met, I think, four or five years ago under the same mentor. and we've been following each other since then. So yeah, thanks for having me. So yeah, I'm Matt. I'm from Cardiff, so from a little town in South Wales. And essentially 13 years ago, I became a PT.

So I've been in the fitness industry for about 13 years now. Worked predominantly with strength and conditioning to start with. Then went into more of your fat loss. That was very much my specialized niche for a number of years. As a lot of people did in lockdown, I think we had look at what we could offer people and that changed from home. And yeah, I essentially turned the business into a bit of a running base business, which is now founder of Run Strong Academy, which is a run club that we run as a course. But I work with a lot of runners online with run coaching and specifically strength coaching for

runners and that's pretty much where the business lies at the moment tell me tell me a little bit about your own running journey why are you so passionate about that and helping people to get into running i've always loved running i wasn't the the type of person i know there was many which is great that found running in lockdown um i've i've definitely been a runner pretty much all my life um i used to do a lot of sprinting used to do a lot of team sports with football and rugby so you have to run with that my background is in sprinting. Long story short, applied for the Royal Marines when I was sort of three years, three years into the fitness industry. I applied for the Royal Marines. And I got in, which was a year-long process, knowing that I was applying for the hardest,

the hardest military training in sort of British, British NATO. I think I realized that I needed to change from being a sprinter to the longer distances because of the tests that they were doing. So I was kind of forced to then do more long distance stuff, which I absolutely hated anything more than like 400 meters. I was genuinely like, no. It just felt horrible when I first started. But to pass one of the tests, it was you needed to run one and a half miles in under 10 minutes, which is shifting.

So I knew I needed to be able to run one and a half miles in that time just to get in. And I knew when I was in there was obviously going to be more tests that were longer endurance based. And that's when I found longer runs, longer runs than 400 meters anyway. Was that your main run when you were doing short distance sprints? Was it 400 meters, 200 meters, 100 meters? It was 1002s. Yeah, 100 and 200 meters. 400 meters is probably the worst distance in the world, isn't it?

to sprint for 400 meters or to try to sprint for 400 meters is honestly disgusting. So yeah, ones and twos. And I think a lot of people who might not be experienced runners, they probably can't wrap that concept around that, like it's a completely different ballgame, someone who's going from like the 100 meters,

200 meters to then someone doing long distance running. It's a completely different sport. Yeah, and I get a lot of people, you know, that reach out to me in the same boat and they say, look, my background's in sprinting and it's honestly harder to take someone from having a sprinting background too longer distances than it would be if they just had no background in running whatsoever.

Why do you think that is? It's just the mechanics. I think with sprinting, especially if you've done it at even a half decent level, you're told to get out the blocks and give it some beans. And so I think when you go into distance running, the worst thing you could probably do is open the door, get out and give it some beans.

So I think it's just, it's harder to, it's harder from a mechanical standpoint because the way you sprint is going to be different to the way you run 5K. And from a mental perspective, they've got it ingrained in the fact that they just need to run hard, which is going to throw you under the bus if you try and run a 5K hard from the start for sure.

Which is probably a mistake, a lot of beginners. make as well as trying to just go as quick as they can. 100% yeah. And so did you then stay in there after the training or what happened next? Yeah. So when I applied, I had a girlfriend at the time. And when I applied, she wasn't pregnant.

Eight months into the application, she fell pregnant, which was amazing. And that was my first born. so when my boy was two months old is when I went into recruit training I could have either not gone into recruit training and maybe regretted not going in and trying it or I could have gone in see how it goes with having a newborn at home yeah and being mid-20s I was a lot different to a lot of the boys that were in there

you know early 20s come straight out of straight out of college, had no responsibilities. I had a newborn at home. And yeah, I just made the decision to come out because even though I loved it, I loved the training especially and loved the sort of camaraderie and the lads, it just wasn't what I wanted to be as a dad, for sure.

So I came out. Don't regret going in, but certainly don't regret coming out. Yeah, I went through the exact same process. Obviously, for different reasons as well where I was in recruit training in the Irish Defence Force and I absolutely loved the training I loved running around the barracks you know full weighted and stuff like that

you know I was the fastest in the company of like 100 recruits and they all loved me there and I did like I think it was I was about nine 10 weeks in nearly finishing but things went on at home and my mum got sick and I was like you know what I would rather be at home right now than doing this and then that obviously led me into then the fitness industry after that. I did like, I worked as a metal sheet worker and I did a couple of jobs in between,

but then it kind of, it was like, oh, I thought that was going to be the job for me. That was going to be the career that I wanted. And I like, I was fully sure of it. And then when it didn't happen, I was like, oh, now what do I do? And now looking back, I'm like, oh, that didn't work out for a reason. So, so this could work out. Yeah, yeah, no, 100%. Like, did you enjoy it while you were in there?

Absolutely. Yeah, I was in the same boat. Like, I didn't regret going in and like it was an amazing experience and I enjoyed it. The reasons for not staying there were outside reasons rather than inside reasons. Yeah, no, same here. Completely relate to that. Yeah. And so after that then, you decided to then go into coaching, was it?

Or were you kind of in a little bit of a limbo between that? Yeah, I was already three years into the fitness industry when I went into the Marines. Oh, okay. So I felt the same way almost. I was almost in a strength and conditioning gym. I reached my ceiling. I couldn't get any higher. So I thought the Marines or the police service,

which were the two choices I had, were great for career progression. Because it was something I could see climbing up the ladder. Whereas where I was at the time, I had a ceiling. So I went into that thinking that was going to be a career. When I came out, because I was still doing fitness in the Marines,

when I came out, I just didn't, I didn't even want to think about fitness. Yeah. So instead of going straight back into the gym, I pretty much worked in a call centre for 12 months, went to work in a suit every day. And it was just amazing. Like I had the best time working in a call centre

because I just wanted to get out of that kind of like fitness mindset a little bit. And obviously, eventually I got the passion back and then went back into fitness industry. Isn't it a funny doubt at them little like decisions that you make along the way probably add up to what you end up doing or like if you never went in there you probably never would have been introduced to long distance running and you wouldn't be helping people with that now and I'm sure even being in the call centre as well helped you with like like what people probably don't know about working in the fitness industry is that it's a lot of kind of having conversations

with people being able to deal with rejection being able to you know communicate with people all these skills that you know you you don't really learn in your personal training search you kind of have to learn on the go or just learn from life experience and like all them things add up yeah no i i always say you know if you're doing in person stuff whether that's coaching or personal training like it's 80% communication you know like you could know you could know you could know everything you could be the most knowledgeable pts in the world and i'm sure we've worked with those people but if you can't communicate that across to someone who's general population if that's who you're working with you're not going to relay that and they're not going to be able to take it in.

So, yeah, it's so hugely communication based. Going on to actual running and coaching and helping people. So I just wanted to go through like a couple different kind of things that there'll be people listening to this podcast now who might be, you know, running their first 5K or training for the first half of Marathon or, you know, like I think like running is trendy at the moment. It's so it's so trendy at the moment. I never, because I was always into running. I always enjoyed running from early on, but I never expected it to be a trendy thing like it is now. So for those who are kind of jumping on the trend,

which I'm all for, I want everyone I think should be running. If someone was, let's say, they had never ran before, they're training for, let's say, their first 5K or their first 10K or whatever it is, like what advice would you usually give kind of novice runners? Yeah, I think on the back of that,

It's definitely great because obviously my passion's in running. And I think a lot of it stem from lockdown. And it's people understood the kind of, there's so many pros to running and being able to just go for run as and when you want, essentially. And you get some fresh air with that. I think is probably why it's so trendy. People just understand it a little bit more. But it's so Instagram. It's Instagramable now.

Whereas before it wasn't. In lockdown, I remember there was something like there was like, I want to. I want to say it was for mental health, but it was like five for five or something and people were posting their runs and like with a picture of their hand, I can't really remember. That's what it was.

It was with a picture of their hand. Five for five, I remember. But yeah, no, I think for novice runners, it really depends on their training history. As you know,

in the sort of coaching element, I think it depends is going to be my answer for the most part. But it depends on their training history. It depends if they've had a break from running. But for most people, it's going to suit to do intervals because one, it stops putting so much pressure on themselves.

Yeah. Like you've probably, if they've got Strava or they've been speaking to their mates or a work colleague and they know that their mates doing 5K and this time, and then they go out for a 5K and they do it 10 minutes slower than, you know, their friend, it's going to be disheartening from the start. So what I would say is one try and obviously avoid that comparison if you can, which is easier said than done. But bringing in intervals means that you're breaking it up.

so you're not putting as much pressure on yourself. You're getting used to running and you're getting used to being outdoors. And you're probably not going to be able to compare that interval run to Dave, who's running like a 15 minute 5K down the road. Can you give an example of intervals for someone who might not understand the terminology? Yeah, so intervals essentially when you do a work period, whether that's 30 seconds or whether that's five minutes. And then you have a little bit of a rest.

So one to two minute rest, for example. and then you pretty much just repeat it, you know, four or five times. And I think that works, but in a timescale perspective from a newcomer to running, like I like programming like a five or a ten minute continuous run. Yeah. Very much how couch the five K works. A five to ten minute continuous run, you have like a two or three minute walk and then you just repeat it.

Yeah. And then because it's timed, it's like it doesn't really matter what the distance is. So you just keep moving for them, let's say, 20 minutes. where it's five minutes running, three minutes walking, five minutes running, three minutes walking. Yeah, and you just build that up essentially until you get to, you know, a 10, 15 minute continuous run. And you just build on that a little bit rather than thinking, right, because everybody else is, I've just got to go out for a 5K. Yeah. Like, it's, it's so much more to do with the psychology of it more so than the physicality of it.

I mean, like, the physicality of it is important as well, but if you feel defeated before, you've even. started, you're not going to continue on and therefore you're not going to end up building up that physicality that you need. Yeah, and I think it's the same with anything, isn't it? Training work, I think if you don't enjoy something, you're not going to carry on. So you don't want to throw yourself under the bus

from day one. Yeah, absolutely. You said, if you're not cross-training every week, you're slowing down progress. For those who might not know what cross-training is and what it means in regards to getting better at running, can you explain that a little bit? Yeah, so cross-training is essentially any form of training you're doing around running.

So it could be rowing, it could be playing netball, it could be going to the gym and lifting weights, anything essentially that's going to get the heart rate up a little bit, improve fitness, and just get a little bit of a sweat on in the process around running. So what I mean by that is, one, it's going to be really good for enjoyment, as we're talking about enjoyment. It's going to be good to mix it up and not have to rely on just running. We know that it's just going to be more enjoyable because then you get access to more communities. You get access to other things.

If you get a running injury, guess what? You can still train if you've already picked something else up. What it's doing is improving that aerobic fitness full running. So you're increasing your aerobic fitness whilst you're doing cross-training. If you're doing the gym as you cross-training method, then you're getting stronger in the process, which is going to give you a better base to work from. But it all boils down to the fact that it's all going to complement your running because it's increasing your fitness. Yes.

Which you need to be able to run. Do you think there's a lot to be said for things like spin classes or boxer size and things that kind of if you're running. But let's say it's impacting the joints running on the hard concrete and stuff like that. You know, you can still get your heart rate up without it being too impactful on the joints. Yeah, the most common reasons runners get injured, especially new runners, is because they do too much too soon. Yeah. Because running is like the most impact-based sport there is because it's just like you said, it's just repetitive motion on the concrete, step after step after step. That can take a toll on knees, ankles, hips.

So if you're implementing something like spin, swimming, boxing, it's going to still elevate the heart rate a little bit, still improve your feet. fitness, but without the extra repetitive nature of sort of smashing your joints. Yeah, I think a lot of people might make the misconception of, okay, I'm training for my first half marathon, so I just need to be out on the road, you know, six, seven times a week. Yeah, and I think that's something that's really common. And I get it because running, especially when you're training for half marathons and full marathons, it can take up a lot of time. So, you know, some people aren't as, aren't as privileged as that, shall I say, where we've got a little bit more time to train and it's our business. So I completely get that not everybody has as much

time to dedicate towards their training and you think, right, the time I've got I want to put towards my running. The problem with that is if you're not strengthening everything up around it and sort of, you know, doing a bit of recovery, working on your sleep, your nutrition, you're going to fall short because you're going to give yourself more chance of getting injured. And that's, that's not a good thing when you either like running your training for something. The one thing you want to avoid is getting injured. Yes. And you spoke about weight training there. Do you think weight training is quite important when it comes to making sure that you prevent injury while getting out and getting your kilometres in? Yeah, I mean, I'm slightly biased because my business is strength training

for runners. So clearly I'm going to say yes. But there's a reason why I do that because it's my background and because I'm so passionate about the fact that the stronger we get, the more robust we're making our bodies. So yes, there's performance benefits to getting stronger to running, like improved lower body strength, neuromuscular coordination and stuff like that. But the main thing is we want to build a more robust body because of the repetitive action of running. So it's going to, I would never ever say that anything can prevent your injury, right?

Because it just can't. But what it's going to do is just minimize your injury risk because you're building a stronger. a body to work from. Yeah, give yourself, give yourself a chance. You said, if you're running more than 20 kilometres per week, I doubt that you want to be spending hours in the gym. So can you give a little bit of advice to runners who, you know, they want to improve their performance, they probably don't want to get injured, but they're probably not that into the gym either. Yeah, but for some, for some context, just to give you a bit of context on that, I've never really enjoyed going to the gym. and this is coming from a PT who's been a PT for 13 years

and worked in gyms for seven, eight years of that. I don't like going to the gym. So for me, as a runner who likes getting a heart rate up there, likes getting a sweat on, so I've loved hit circuits and why I love running. I get bored really easily in the gym, no matter what I'm doing. Three minute rest times on the leggy stuff. Isn't your ideal Sunday afternoon?

Just not built for a round. runners. But on a time management perspective, you know, if you're training for half marathon, you are doing 20k a week, the last thing you want to be doing is spending hours in the gym. And I think that puts people off from the start because they think I just haven't got the time to do it, so I'm not going to do it. Whereas if you're in the gym for 20 to 30 minutes and you're doing two sessions a week, for example, that are 20 to 30 minutes each, you're getting, you know, 60 minutes of good work in there, but you just have to make sure that the quality of that work you're getting in is really good.

To give some context on that, I would always go full body to start with. I know a lot of runners that do lower body days. That's usually people with a lot of training experience that aren't necessarily going to get a load of DOM so it's not going to affect their runs the next day. I'd usually go full body and I just make sure that you're doing movements efficiently. You're working on time under tension. For those that don't know, that just means that you're slowing down the reps and you're not going too quickly because as runners, we have a tendency to do things too quickly.

So you go in slow, you stick into those rest periods and you're working muscle groups that are beneficial to running. Makes sense. What would be some muscle groups that are beneficial to run and would you say? If you were to, let's say, give some standard exercises for a full body session for people who are listening to this who might not know, might not have an app, might not have a personal trainer so like even just a little bit of context in terms of exercise selection would be nice for them. Yeah, I think to go back to, you know, my strength and conditioning routes, I still think push, pull, squat, hinge is a really good place to start. And that for people who don't know, your push would be, you know, training your chest and your shoulder somewhat. Your pull would be

training your back. Your hinge would be training your hamstrings and your back. And then your squat would be training quad, glutes and sort of thighs and everything else. So, I think sticking to that method still works because you're making sure that you are making the most out of each session. People will say that lower body is more important when it comes to specifics for running. I agree, but I also disagree somewhat because we run with our arms and I think people forget that. So if you've got a really strong lower body and you almost haven't got the power and strength in your upper body, coordination-wise is just going to be off a little bit. So your legs are ticking over, but your arms just can't keep up because you haven't got the strength and endurance in them.

So yes, lower body is going to be better, but upper body is also going to be important. So I think it depends on the individual, but for most people, you're going to have a form of push in there. So it could be like a bench press or a chest press, something like that, or a press up. A pull as a dumbbell row or a lap pull down, a hinge, a deadlift, or a swing. wing or like a glute bridge and then you've got your squat lunge or step-ups as a sort of quad and glute dominant exercise. Yeah and I think it's nice to then realize that oh I might only need actually four exercises and I've covered all bases and like when when we're talking about people that don't want to be in the gym or don't have that much time available to them to be able to just go in

and get four exercises done and get out of there and you know that's going to keep you ticking over and keep you robust. Like, that's surely a win-win. I mean, do you see that as well? I think there's something to say for like, overwhelm. We've all got so much going on in our lives already. And when you add running into the mix, sometimes if you, people know they've got seven or eight movements to do.

They're like, do you find that with your sort of clients? Absolutely. Like, even myself personally, let's say I live on the laptop all day. I've had a really, really busy week. And I like, I know my body's aching to just kind of move a little bit more. like and I know I haven't you know exercise most of the week I'm like I'm just going to go in and I'm just going to do a full body session I'm going to pick four exercises that it's just going to make me feel better and then kind of get out of there because like I don't have time to be doing a push pull legs twice a week you know so I think in terms of efficiency in terms of kind of overwhelm whether that's your your your time's consumed by training for a half marathon or a marathon or your time's consumed by looking after the kids or or you're swamped in work. I think it's just a really nice type of a split

to keep you consistent without, again, like you said, overwhelming the person. Yeah, and I think on that, it's almost the case of like when you are in the gym and going through the motions, you almost want to just get the most out of it and you think social media plays a part in that. You see these crazy wheels that people are doing

like 20 exercises that are like, what and then you think you have to do that as well. Like there were like 20 exercises for one muscle group or something like that. Absolutely overkill for, you know, Jessica, who's only training twice a week and running. It's insane. You also talked about tempo running. So for people that don't understand what tempo running is or why that would be beneficial to their training, could you explain that a little bit?

Tempo running is essentially a form of speed work. So you could have interoperable. and you could have tempos almost in the same bracket. And it's called a temper run because you're playing with different tempos, which is, I guess, a more sciencey term for you just playing with different speeds. Like fart leg training as well, but a little bit different. Tempo would mean going out for, say, a 10K run. And it would mean doing, say, 3K at like an easy pace.

So you want to be able to hold a conversation with the person next to you. That's how you know that it's an easy run. then you'd have maybe like a 2K section in the middle that is a little bit faster. If you want to make it specific, if there's a certain pace that you want to be running your half marathon for, you'd almost make that 2K specific to your half marathon pace. Then you'd obviously do say, you know, a 6K easy to finish. There's a few different ways of doing it. You can do it with time.

You can do it with distance. But all it means is you're just, you're hitting a certain pace within that run. and then you mix and matching easy to hard essentially. Makes sense. So for people, I think we should stick with a half-maritan run preparation because I think that's what a lot of people are doing these days are challenging themselves to do.

So like in regards to, let's say it's a half-maridon you're training for how would people know whether to, you know, just go out and run as fast as you can't for that, just go out and do a tempo run. Should I just be training like doing 10K every time I run? like how should people who are listening to this podcast just be like how do I prep myself for this 21 kilometer run and you know how many runs a week should I do and which ones should I do really slow which ones should I do really fast because like sometimes all that information can confuse someone more than

help them yeah there's there's there's so much stuff out there and some of it is conflicting but it all follows you know the same sort of principle I think the 80, 20, ratio that is spoken about quite a lot is a really good place to start and I think that's for training in general I guess like 80% there or thereabouts of your runs want to feel relatively easy 20% is probably where you're going to be doing your speed work or a bit more intensity I think that's more important than how many runs you're doing or what specific runs you're doing because then everything else kind of makes sense I think three runs a week is you know pretty much baseline for a lot of people training for a half marathon.

If you're more experienced runner, then you can probably do four or five runs a week. And it depends on your time as well, right? So I think starting with like an easy run, which is what I always do as almost the foundational run. And as we just spoke about, the way to know that it's easy is to be able to hold a conversation with the person next to you whilst you're running. And that you could do, you know, a 5K. what I like to do, as we spoke about before,

one of the pros of doing time-based runs is you're not going to compare it to Jessica, because we've already said a Jessica down the road, who's absolutely rapid, and she's running a 5K in an obscene time. So I think a 30 to 35 minute easy run is just a really good baseline run for anybody on any specific running program

or any golf, because it stops that comparison. You're still going to work that aerobic fitness, and it's just nice to be able to go out for a 30, 35 minute run without thinking about intensity. In the middle of that, you probably want to be doing a speed work session, which is your hard session every week, which could be intervals, like we said at the start. It could be a track session or it could be, I wouldn't say you need to really worry about a tempo run until you get deep into a half marathon block. But intervals is just a really good

place to start as your 20% intense session. And then for most people, it's going to benefit. to have a long run on the weekend, which will be the way to get your mileage up, will be the way to prep you for 21K. And that could be anywhere from, you know, a 10 to 15K run over the weekend. Yes, makes sense. What about recovery?

So obviously there'll be people training for half-maritans and they'll start to feel that, oh my God, my hips are really tight. My lower back is starting to pain me. I'm getting shin splits. Tell me a little bit about what people can do for that. Yeah, I mean, I hate to be that coach, but like, sleep and nutrition is, is just going to be rule number one. There's no point in jumping in ice baths, getting in saunas

if you haven't got your sleep and nutrition lockdown. Doesn't mean you're not going to get any benefit from it, but I would always prioritize sleep and nutrition from terms of recovery. You're doing more miles. You're training for longer usually, so your body just needs to adapt to that and it takes time. You're going to be aching. There's no, there's no two ways about it. So sleep and nutrition, Once that is lockdown, you just want to make sure that you're managing your intensity, which is where the 80-20 ratio comes in. You want to make sure that you are keeping round about 80% of your runs at an intensity, so you don't have to be in recovery mode.

And then, yeah, you're looking into like stretching and mobility. Like we know there's not an awful lot of science that says stretching and mobility does much, but I think that's just personal preference. I think the looser we get our muscles and from a mental standpoint, mobility and stretching in between runs can be beneficial from a mental standpoint for a lot of runners for sure.

Yeah, and I think that's something where a lot of people who are evidence-based, they kind of forget that. It's like, well, if it makes someone feel better, then, you know, allow them to have it. With it. Exactly. Yeah, so in terms of, like, that 80-20 rule

I remember hearing about that a year ago when I started running and I was like oh that's that's really genius like 80% of your I think I heard it as like 80% of your runs at 60% effort

and 20% of your runs at like 80 to 100% effort and I was like that's so good and I always think about the 80-20 rule in terms of nutrition like 80% of your meals like whole foods 20% you know fun foods which you enjoy but I almost forgot about that in terms of running

I think it's so simplistic but it makes people get it straight away. Yeah, I mean, on that, I'm not saying that it needs to be 80, 20. You know, you could do 85, 15, or you could do 75, 25, 25, is that right? My math is awful. Like, you could go anywhere around, like, the main consensus of that is getting people's heads around the fact that they want more of their runs to be easy than hard. Yes.

Yeah. Which is the opposite of usually where people start and probably why they just hate running because they're going, you know, balls to the wall as soon as they get out the door. Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. I actually find myself, like, someone who's supposed to be experienced in knowledge of this stuff, that, like, if I'm to coach myself, there is no coaching and I'm like, right, I have to do a 5K, right, get the fastest time for Strav, however, I can see how fast you can run.

Like, like, I think everyone, even professionals can fall into that trap. Oh, and I mean, what, what do you mean as well, that you, you mean seven weeks you get, like, your nutrition's kind of not on the 80, 20, so? Mine definitely doesn't follow that trend in some ways. So it's just life, isn't it? You know, we're humans. Yeah, I think, I think, so having that structure, though, it's a really good, it's a really good rule of tongue. And then in terms of shin spints and stuff like that, would you say that kind of, because that's a, that's a thing that I hear people talk about a lot?

Would you say that also comes down to, okay, probably, probably the intensity is too high or you're doing too much too soon or too much volume too soon? Yeah, and it could be a few things. Firstly, like disclaimer, I'm definitely not a physio, but I've got a physio that I almost send my runners to, which is great. But I think usually with shin splints, it's either to do with footwear or it's to do with, yeah, like over mileage or over intensity. I think it could usually be down to those two things. Do you have any advice on footwear in terms of people what not to wear compared to what to wear? Yeah, don't wear carbon plated shoes for your easy. your easy 30 minute run. Save those for race day. But you know, the idea of trainers,

like there's there's a lot of information out there at the moment, which is great. And all of the shops, I think I'm quite lucky here. Hopefully, you know, wherever the person listening to this has local running shops that has some really good staff working there. And they can explain to you the difference between like a daily runner or like a race day runner. And the general consensus is your daily running trainer is going to have a decent amount of cushion in the heel because it's going to save a lot of the impact that running creates so it's going to save your joints. Carbon-plated shoes and race-day shoes aren't going to have much cushion because you can go faster so they're lighter. It makes sense. If you wear those every day, which I genuinely see people out and

about wearing their carbon-plated shoes when they're quite obviously going for like a 20K long run with a backpack on, it's going to absolutely destroy like your joints because you've not no cushion. So there's not really, you know, a specific brand I would recommend. I think I get all of my runners to go and get their gate analyzed. It sounds scientific, but it's honestly, a lot of places will give you a free gate analysis if you buy a pair of trainers from them. And you only ever have to do that once. And all it'll do is it'll assess your gate. It'll do a little video. It'll see how you run and they'll be like, the hokers are really good for you because they're a wide base trainer.

And if you know that, you can base your running trainer choices on that, on that information. Makes sense. And what I, what I used to always think or my top perception was, let's say on race day, you should kind of keep everything as similar as possible. So your nutrition should be similar. You know, wear the same gear that you would usually wear because it's going to feel comfortable. So you don't have any, like, if you can replicate your training to your race day performance as much as possible, like that's going to be a net positive.

But do you think in terms of, in terms of runners, that could be that swap that you could kind of get away with it because it's going to help with performance? Yeah, I mean, you could always take, you know, your race day trainers, your carbon plates, if you wanted to do it for like a 10 minute spin, 15 minutes split. So you're used to running in them. It's not a case of you just have them for race day.

You're not overly using them. You're not overly using them because, one, they're super expensive. and two, they'll just destroy your ankles and hips if you, if you, like, running them a lot. So, yeah, still, still sort of, you know, practice before it and go out in them, even if you're wearing them around the house, just you know how it feels, rather than just having them out on race day. Makes sense.

And in terms of nutrition, what advice would you give to runners? Let's say on race day, like, what you'd, let's say we'll stick to the 21K, the half-maritan one. So what would you suggest in terms of nutrition? in the morning, what you should be having before a race during a race after race. I was actually speaking to someone about this yesterday and I think because there's so much going on social media at the moment about protein, protein, protein. And we know like people are probably under-eating protein.

So like we're trying to push people to eat more protein because it's going to be beneficial for health, for weight loss, etc., etc. So I'm speaking to someone yesterday and they were like, what, I shouldn't be having like a protein shake and some yoghurt before I go out for a run. And like, no, but like, who's, who's, you know, how can I expect you to know that without having this conversation? So I think before a run or any run, you're, you're, the form of food that you want is carbohydrates because the carbohydrates are obviously our energy supply. More importantly than that, you just want food that you used to, which is what you've already

said about, because there's nothing worse than going on a, on a sort of run, especially if you're racing. you've tried something new and you feel like you're going to crap yourself like 5K in. That's just not a nice feeling. So I think one, you just want to make sure it's almost good for your stomach. And that goes for like gels and stuff that runners use.

You don't want to be using different gels on race day without trying them in training because who knows what it could do to your stomach. So one, it would mean have a food that's going to sit well in your stomach. Two would just be make sure it's a carbohydrate source. Things to avoid are just anything dairy almost and anything with a bit of spice. Usually a long run or races are going to be in the mornings. So let's focus on breakfast.

I swear by just having bagels, jam and sliced banana on it. I was going to ask you. I was going to what's your go-to meal knowing what your go-to meal is because I see you put it up all the time. Yeah, like I'll have porridge sometimes, but a lot of people, because there's milk and porridge, it won't sit well in their stomach. I'd need to give it more time. But yeah, that, that for me is almost like gold standard. I know it sits well. It's fast acting carbohydrates.

Don't need to look outside of that. Yeah. And I think that's an important thing as well, that it's fast releasing carbohydrates, rather than having something that's kind of slower release. And if you're about the rights. Yeah. When you were in your training, was it a case of like you had to get, you had to shovel stuff in and then just go on a run straight after it,

like 20 minutes after it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That got used to my stomach just being able to like have a big meal and 30 minutes later I'm doing like a 20K, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You also speak a lot on your page about like, okay, while running can have all these benefits in terms of, you know, you're feeling physically stronger, you're feeling fitter. You know, it can help even with body composition and stuff like that. but you also really advocate the the mental side,

the mental perspective that running can give to people. And I think that's a metric that kind of gets lost when people are training for performance and training for races, but then they don't actually realize how mentally better they feel like having purpose to their week or structure to their week by just getting out and running. Yeah. I think on that, running is.

hard. Like running as hard as most things are when it comes to training. So I think initially getting over that barrier of doing something that you couldn't. So if you struggle to run 1K continuous at the start and now all of a sudden you're doing 5K, who cares what time you're doing a 5K, but the fact you can run a continuous 5K now without stopping compared to where you were, so you're already more confident and you've already almost got over that initial barrier. So that gives you confidence, that can help with your mental health. I think, one of the massive benefits to me personally and why I advocate running so much is because you're getting vitamin D regardless of the weather like I've got a really nice sunny Cardiff at

moment I know I've seen I've seen some videos I was like looks unbelievable it's really nice and I'm down the bay which is like so I'm overlooking the marina here and this yes it's stunning so I think regardless of the weather you're always going to get that vitamin D um hit which we know is really good for mental health. Alongside that, you're moving your body. So you're getting endorphins. You're getting a feel good factor. You're getting a sweat. When you combine those two together, I think just something magic happens when you're doing it daily or when you're doing it three, four times a week. So that for me is almost how it works. Why it works is because I just find my mind just kind of

wonders when you get to a certain level of running and it feels good and it feels nice and you get runs that feel not nice but if you are sticking to kind of like an 80-20 ratio let's say you know 60 70% of your run should feel good and you almost just get like an instant mental health kick when you're outside sometimes you've got the fresh air and you're just into a bit of people call it flow state don't they and I think to be able to get to that is where that mental health improvement can be sort of massively linked to running. And then also, like if you flip at that, because now that you, you, you notice them benefits, then you start going out running for the mental benefits rather than the performance benefits.

And then the performance improves as a byproduct of you just actually going out and doing something that you enjoy. Yeah. People ask me all the time, like, why don't you race? Like, I've never done an event. So I've never done like a half marathon or a marathon. And I just, I don't race actively at the moment. and people say why don't you race

and I just say because it's not why I run it genuinely like running started for performance benefits and then I realised the mental health benefits and it got me through a lot of tough time so it's almost like that's why I run I only started racing last like last year I only did my first half marathon

I've done like six since then and I ran one marathon but I would never been able to do them if I didn't go out running for the reasons that I actually started which was I just wanted to get out of the house and get out of my head And I just, for like 10, 12 years maybe, I was just outrunning just for the purpose of running.

I didn't even have headphones or Strava or my run or any of them things. Not by your own. Wow. Like, I probably couldn't do it now. Like I always run with headphones and earphones now. But when I was younger, I used to never do it. And it was just, it used to never bother me. And I was like, like, I just, I found a further, the mental health benefits of it.

And then I think everything else just fell into that as a byproduct. I think it's great because generationally, we got brought up. People started running, the majority of people start running because they want to lose weight. They thought it was the only way they could lose weight. Now with all this information available and social media, people realize that running isn't the only way to lose weight. So I think a lot of people are starting because, yes, they want to get fitter and healthier, but also because they know it's going to improve their mental health because of all the research on that, which can only be a good thing.

Yeah, it's such a more positive reason to be getting out and going for a jog outside rather than the old way of thinking. And then obviously on top of that then, that obviously probably contributes as well to this rise that we have in run clubs and stuff like that. And you know, I'm a, you've probably seen on my Instagram, like I'm a big advocate of community and social health and socialising. So what do you think of the rise in popularity of run clubs at the moment? I know you do like a six-week running phase you do

when you go out in groups and run outside, isn't it? Yeah, so I've got my own run club, but coming from like a performance and a results-based background and the fact that I'm not overly social when I run. So I was like, do you know what? Let's create a run club that is almost like a six-week run club course specific to a set goal,

whether that's a 5k or a 10K. And all I do is basically do intervals, like in person. So we meet up early Tuesday morning. They are absolutely warriors, to be fair. Six o'clock every Tuesday morning. We do intervals. So we do like sprints across the sort of barrage. That's our in-person session.

And they almost get a program to go along with that. So my run club is different to a lot of run clubs, but that's why I created it. I think the good thing about run clubs is they're bringing they're bringing more communities together. I struggled with the fact that a lot of people were going to run clubs and felt intimidated because they felt they had to keep up with the pace

and they were almost getting left behind, which is, again, one of the reasons why I created my run club with the fact that our phrase is no one left behind. Love that. I want to be able, but runners who aren't that confident to come through and not feel like

they're going to be left behind or not feel like they're slowing down the pack. So I think there's a few negatives and a few cons that some run clubs have with them, that they're only appealing to a certain amount of people and then people are almost afraid to go because of that. But if it's bringing more people together and it's getting more people running,

I only see it as a massive net positive. It makes sense. And I think it's like everything, it's less about the idea, but the approach behind the idea. and I think some people can approach these things better because they have more knowledge and more experience and can understand where you can create something

that everyone kind of thrives and progresses and then other people can do it in a way where they're not that experienced and again people can feel left behind. Yeah, I think a lot of run clubs are made by people that almost aren't coaches, so they haven't got that base of like you need to be able to cater for

your slowest member and your fastest member, like you need to give them the same experience. Yeah, there has to be self-awareness for that to happen. And I don't have it. Yeah, I think most coaches understand that, but a lot of run clubs these days are made by people that just enjoy running, which is great. But the flip side of that can be the fact that they're just,

they're not aware that people feel like they're either slowing down the pack or they feel like they're faster than everybody else. Yeah, it makes sense. I wanted to ask you a couple other questions, more so kind of just broader questions and just kind of your perspective on coaching in general. So like after 13, is it 13 years of coaching you've been doing now? Yeah. So like after 13 years of coaching, what do you think you've learned about the job that you could pass on to maybe less experienced coaches or people just getting involved in the industry for the first time? Yeah, I think I actually shared something on Instagram the other day from Craig Massey who always posts some really good stuff.

And I think the number one rule that I feel like it's easy to, it's easy to lose and easy to, easy to lose sight of now because of social media and, you know, we were on the same mentorship. So I know we can, we can speak about this. But there's so much pressure on hitting certain numbers when it comes to like how much you're bringing home and how much you're earning and stuff like that. that there's so much pressure on coaches that they forget to actually think about what their job is as a coach rather than think about the numbers. So rule number one would just be to like be the best coach you can, try not to think about numbers too much. Yes, as a business, so numbers will matter if you're self-employed for sure. But I think being the best coach you can, and a lot of that is to do with communicating with your client, whether that's online or in person. Like ask them what they want. Probe them.

them like speak to them as a human being you know don't be robotic like be yourself like i think if there's one thing i could say is just be yourself um because like people buy from people right and if they're not if they're not sort of investing in you they might just be doing it because maybe you know you've got you've got a good instagram or you post some good stuff but they're not necessarily doing it for the right reasons because they're not investing in you people that stick around and they want to get coached by you will be the people that you have a really good relationship with. And it all boils down, in my opinion, to that relationship you make with the client. You could say that and I understand that it's a business. So you almost do need to be,

you do need to be hitting the numbers. But in my experience, if you be the best coach you can, you open up more doors for yourself, you open up more opportunities, and you get a really good reputation. Yeah, yeah. And you know, if you destroy your reputation because you're not really interested in helping people, then like once you lose your reputation, you can't get it back. Yeah. We say it to our clients, but it's like understanding you why.

You know, for most people, they don't get into coaching because they think they can earn loads of money. A little bit different now with online coaching and the, way you see social media because people put it out there but i think for most people if you wanted to earn loads of money you probably wouldn't be in the fitness industry and so i think i think i see that you see that happen on a lot between the trainers who are there because they like helping people and the trainers who are there to make lots of money they just end up transitioning as business coaches anyway they don't stay as fitness trainers because they were never they never really gave a shit about uh you know training people anyway they just were there to try to make as much money as possible so then they're

like, all right, I'm going to transition to something else now. Yeah. And like I could say something really, you know, really sort of sciencey, like just keep up skilling and never stop learning and stuff like that. But I think you just want to keep that fire within your belly for like helping someone else do some pretty cool shit. Like you just, you just want to try to maintain that. And that comes with helping people building relationships, them giving you good feedback, you giving them good feedback and just that relationship that you have for people. Yeah, it's all about actually kind of just wanting to help people, I think, and doing the best you can with that.

I always use the line that, you know, be like working in the fit. You're not going to make it in the fitness industry if you're into fitness. It's not about being into fitness. It's about being into people, you know, it's because that's what you're doing. You're serving other people, not yourself. I like that, yeah. You've obviously then worked with a lot of people from kind of all walks of life in that time. So what do you think you've learned about people in general from your time as a coach?

yeah i think a lot of people will tell you when you first come into industry to sort of like maintain those boundaries and professionalism and i get that almost but for people to for people to open up to you and and sort of communicate more which is where we know it stems from you need to open up a little bit to them so you need to show more of if you're pretending to be someone else they're not going to open up to you so i think communication will always always always be um the biggest thing but as far as what I've learned from other people, I think is that everybody is just more capable than they could ever imagine. And your job as a coach, or one of your jobs as a coach, is to almost get that out of them, like get it from them so they can implement it, whether it's from a nutrition, a training,

a performance sense, a mental health sense. I think our jobs as coaches, as well as building relationship is to improve people's lives. So everybody's just a lot more capable. than they could ever imagine. And if you can let them see that, I think that's just massive because then they can see that the sort of possibilities and opportunities are endless within fitness.

Yeah, I always think about like that even in terms, if we're talking about from like a running perspective, like when I ran my first marathon there was the longest distance I ever did, which was the 42K. And after I did it in last summer, I was like, oh shit, what else could I do?

Do you know what I mean? It was that like, that limiting belief. And then it was like breaking through uncomfortable barriers where I was doubt myself. It's like, oh, if I can do that, what else am I capable of doing that I haven't actually being, you know, backing myself to do? And I think seeing that in a client as well, whether it's, you know, they tell themselves that they're not a runner and then they go for their first 5K run or, you know, they tell themselves that they're just not a gym person.

But then they go into the gym and they start training and now they feel better. And like they start, you know, lifting weights. They didn't think they could and they feel more confidence. it's like, oh my God, I'm more capable than I thought I was. And how that can ripple into other areas of their life that isn't just fitness, you know, whether that's, you know, family life or business or, you know, self-development in any way. I think it's, it's probably one of the best things about that type of work.

That's a really good point as well because it's not about telling people, look, you could do this, you can do that. It's about showing people and letting them experience, like, lift, that weight that they never thought was possible. And then you don't have to tell them because they've just proved to themselves that they've done it. Yeah, yeah.

And like at some point, it has to come from action as well because, you know, you can tell yourself, oh, I believe myself to do it, but not really believe it or you don't believe it, but if you do the thing, you do the thing. Yeah, I love the way you say that. You said something that I really enjoyed.

You said, winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. I thought that was a really, really good quote. Can you elaborate on that in terms of what it means or what it means to you? Yeah, for me, it's the process. It's the process of doing stuff that is hard and you're wanting to win. And this isn't wanting to win against other people. This is wanting to win against who you were last year, who you were five years ago.

I think there's real value in looking at the process of whatever that goal is, whether it's business, training, running, and wanting to win, wanting to be better than yourself, even if you get to that goal, get to that race, get to that bodyweight target and you don't hit it, the fact that you've wanted to get there has made the process so much more valuable. And let's be honest, it's almost like the journey without sounding super cheesy. the journey is where is where the progress happens and where the sort of where the happiness comes because it's bringing that into part of it.

So I think if you're constantly wanting to win, wanting to be better than you were two years ago to who you were yesterday, the process just becomes so much more enjoyable. There's some really good sort of things from like Olympic athletes who've won Olympic goals and stuff and they always say about once they've won a gold, it's like they've reached their lowest point when they've won that goal because like what's next?

Yeah. What are you called gold gold medal syndrome or something like that? Something like that, yeah. And I think that's where it comes from, you know. And I mean, I use gold and I said winning isn't everything. They've clearly won. So maybe I should have used bronze or fifth. But yeah, it's the fact that even if you haven't reached your goal, it's the fact that you wanted to reach your goal.

so it gave you a, what's the word that I'm looking for? It gave you a purpose. It gave you a purpose to get up in the morning and put your shoes on and get out the door. Do you think that's what people get wrong about progress is that they're very hyper fixated on the outcome and not who they're becoming in the process of pursuing that goal? Yeah, and I can actually relate to that myself.

I'm really bad at goal set in long term. I find it quite overwhelming. and where people are like, where do you want to be in like three years? I'm like, honestly, I'm just looking like three weeks ahead or three months ahead. I've never been a massive goal setter. So I think a lot of people are almost instilled the fact that they have to have this this golden six month goal. I've never worked that way. So I relate to that in the fact that I find it difficult to think about that. And it definitely hasn't held me back when it comes to like making progress,

whether that's my running, the business, training, life. So yeah, I think there's definite method within that like statement for sure. Yeah. Do you think that it's, it's, it can almost be a more beneficial way of, of, of thinking about things and thinking about life in terms of like, you know, you want to have ambition. So like goal setting or trying to achieve these things or, you know, finishing your first race,

like that's all well and good. But also like trying to balance that ambition with like also appreciating the everyday now and where you are regardless of where you are, trying to be grateful for where you are and what you have, but also going to strive for more and being ambitious. Yeah, I mean the magic you're looking for is found in your daily routine, right? and I think that kind of sums it up the fact that we're looking at our daily routine and we're figuring that out and we're trying to improve that. And in that, that's going to affect two weeks down the line. It's going to affect four weeks down the line.

So I think if sometimes we look at the sort of the day-to-day stuff we're doing, that could massively benefit what's going on in long term rather than just thinking about that six-month goal all the time. Yeah, absolutely. like your days end up making up your life so you know making sure that you're successful every day yeah um what's one lesson that running or training has taught you um that goes far beyond fitness trying to use a different um phrase to what i used with one thing i've learned about other people but i honestly think it's the same thing it's told me that my body my body and mind is just so much more capable than what i could ever imagine And that sounds super cheesy, but that is honestly the overbearing thing is the fact that you never know your limits until you're actually, you know, pushing them every week and getting there.

Whereas I think a lot of people maybe that don't run, they don't train, they haven't almost reached that point where they're like, I am literally on my hands and knees trying to breathe right now. I'm but I'm a lot better than I was you know six six months previously do you think that by you know doing them things like doing them difficult things physically that has helped you in terms of backing yourself being self-employed and you know etc

yeah there's definite turnover to that because you know people say that if you lift some heavy step off the floor you know in the weights room for example, that's just going to mean that you're able to put stuff on your back and move forwards, whether that's traumas, whether that's family stuff, you know, whether that's business, whether that's work, whether that's life. I think there's so much turnover and compatibility from running and from the gym to getting over hard stuff in your life because it is. It's doing something that you might not necessarily want to do on certain days and doing it anyway because you know it's

going to benefit you. Speaking of hard stuff I read that you lost your dad in your early 20s Is that correct? Yeah, 21 I was yeah Yeah So very very young For anyone struggling with

You know grieving the loss of a parent I also was I think it was 23 or something like that When my mum passed Would you have any advice for them In terms of how to cope essentially? Yeah, it's hard isn't it Because I guess it depends on your invite

and what you use to cope. Like, it's almost where I found fitness. You know, I found I found running and sort of walk in and go into the gym as almost like an outlet. And I'm a bit of a gamer as well. So I wouldn't be doing myself any favours if I didn't say I fell back on my Xbox quite a lot and games probably more than more than I should have. So I probably did what I'm sure you can relate to some way.

I probably did what you shouldn't do initially. which was almost lock myself away in a little bubble, not speak to anyone about it. I was offered therapy. I didn't take it. And it was free therapy as well. So I think I did probably what I shouldn't have done at the time, but it was how I coped.

So I mean, my advice would be don't let, don't let social media or life or anyone in general tell you how you should cope with getting over trauma. Like you have to figure that out yourself. if it's going to help to talk, then it's probably going to be beneficial for you talking. But if like me at that time, it wasn't helping, I didn't force myself to talk. And I think that gets lost sometimes because we are told so much to talk about it. Whereas for some people in some environments and some different situations,

it maybe isn't going to help because of the type of person they are. So I guess my advice would be to not let anyone tell you how to how to handle your trauma. So I'm not going to tell you. It makes complete sense. It's like, you know, on top of grieving, you're also gilding someone into a way of grieving. Yeah. I mean, there's obviously things that, you know, you can do to help. And that's nutrition, sleep, you know, train, like get your heart rate.

there a little bit. It's stuff you can do to help, but as far as the kind of mental stuff is, is do what you need to do in that environment and you'll pretty much figure out, hopefully, what's going to be the best avenue for you. Like what was, can you remember how you handled it or what you did?

I handle it like poorly. So I poured myself into my business at the time, but the business at the time was like running at boot camps. and like I was you know I think there was at times when I was doing like 20 hours of of boot camp classes plus like 40 hours working in the gym itself and I got like working like 60 hours a week and me thinking that was productivity and what it was really was escapism and like I ended up like burning the candle out at both ends where I was like you know working really hard and building up kind of this business to like 120 members.

but then I was also like going out every weekend as well and like I was just burnt out by the end of it and then I was like right I'm going to Vietnam and I flew to Vietnam and just I just let the business crumble basically but I didn't realize that it was an escapism at the time of it happening it was only kind of in reflection a couple of years later when I was a little bit older and wiser yeah and alcohol deaf again I I you know I wouldn't be being honest if I didn't mention that like alcohol definitely played a part then as well you know I used that as almost like an escape isn't as well for sure. Did you have any kind of fondest memories of him before he passed away? Yeah, I mean, it was a really hard one for me because he was my dad, but he was like my best mate as well. You know, we had such a great relationship, and I'm so grateful for that relationship because I know I speak to a lot of people now and they haven't necessarily got a good relationship with their dad

or, you know, their mum that had maybe passed away. But I had such a good relationship with him. like some of my fondest memories are just when me and him are together just doing stuff, whether that's like racing remote control cars under the underground of fitness first. They were like petrol engines and we just used to go at like 11pm at night and run them under fitness first. They'd make this crazy like petrol sound and probably wake everybody up. Or just like being in the car with him listening to music, you know, gaming with him or just literally quality time with him. Do you think that represented then

and you being a big gamer even after you passed away? No, I think generational wise, I think I had my uncle as well. It was a massive gamer, so I was always going to go down that route. He wasn't as big of a gamer, but it's just something I've always relied upon and really loved.

Is there anything you've learned from him in terms of conversations he had, or even just how he behaved that you kind of replicate now or try to. I think the most important thing is what I've just mentioned as a parent, because I've got two kids myself and I've got a son and a daughter. But I think my relationship with my son

is almost foundational to how my relationship was with my dad. And that is, as I've just said, when you ask, what's your fondest memories? It's not that he took me to Florida. It's the fact that those little moments that don't cost anything. thing, are the most valuable memories. So I use that as a parent now and think, okay, so like, those were my most valuable, you know, memories when my dad passed. So I want my kids to feel the

same. So regardless of, you know, financial situation and stuff like that, I always think, do you know what? And I'm obviously split from their moms. We don't see them all the time. So I'm like, I'm just going to spend quality time with them. Doesn't matter what we're doing. It's just about quality time spent. And I think that's just a relationship, isn't it? Yeah, that, that, that kind of, you know, sums up what it's about. It's like it's not about, you know, what you get them or doing these big grand holidays or anything. It's like the little everyday things being present, spending quality time because to them,

it doesn't really matter what it is, but it's it's the, it's the environment that you create with them. Yeah. What about you? Have you learned? Yeah, for me, it was, it was probably quite similar in the terms of that. my man was very much she was very family orientated she was very much about

getting people together to do things she was very kind of kind and she was very like a real organiser of like okay we're all going out to do this thing together we're all going out to see her auntie or we're all going to the zoo together and I think it's only as I've gotten older now where like you know I talk about social health and social community and stuff like that

and I found that okay I'm I'm very much like without realising it like creating trying to create kind of social environments where people can spend time together and enjoy each other's company. And I think that was something that my, that my mum did a lot without even realising it. And I think I kind of picked, I've picked that up from her now, a little bit. Like I'm, I'm, I'm definitely not as kind or as patient as my mum was.

I'd probably argue with people on the internet far too much to put myself in the same bracket as her. But I definitely kind of, I definitely kind of picked them things up from her to, you importance of family and the importance of, you know, even community. Like, she always made time for her friends. She always went for a walk with her friends. Like, she'd always be just talking to strangers on the estate. I remember one Christmas, like, we had a neighbour who, you know, he was in his 80s and he was living on his own and we didn't know him. And next minute he's sitting at the table at Christmas dinner with us. And I'm, I'm only a young lad and I'm like, who the fuck is this?

And she's like, this is, like, this is Sean. He's sitting with us now. He's going to have a dinner. Like, And that's just how she was. And I think, you know, as kids, you kind of, you're watching and you're observing, but you don't realize that you're actually taking them things in. And then you notice them more as you're an adult then. Yeah, no, I can definitely see that about you in sort of communities and trying to bring everyone together as much as possible with all the stuff that you're doing. Yeah.

Anything, any last advice that you want to leave people in terms of their fitness training, in terms of running, in terms of just pursuing their health goals. What kind of advice would you like to leave people as we wrap up this podcast? Enjoy it. Like try your best to enjoy it. I think, again,

it's a bit cheesy, but if it's one thing I've learned in, well, I say 13 years of coaching, I coach football before that. So like 20 years of coaching kids and adults, it's that you're not going to go back to a day after day and start with,

start creating some consistency, start creating a better lifestyle if you don't enjoy it somewhat. There's going to be days that you don't enjoy. But for the most part, you want to find something you enjoy, whether that's running, whether that's going to the gym, whether that's rock climbing. I think if it gets you moving and it gets your heart rate up, we know it's going to be beneficial for your physical and mental health. So find something you enjoy.

Try as many different things as you can if you haven't found it. And stick with it. Matt, I've really enjoyed this conversation. thank you for a time. I think we should have probably done this a lot soon or so we'll definitely have to do it again. If people want to keep up with the work that you do, where could they go to find you to communicate with you to reach out? Where can they find you?

Instagram's my main platform. So at Matt Jones underscore PT. Everything runs through there. Like I'm quite active on social media through, you know, reels and stories and stuff like that. So yeah, love to connect with people. And massive thanks for having me. I think I'd probably choose to come over to you next time

rather than you come here because I want to make a trip over to you. So next time you do it, hopefully I'll do it in person as well. All right, that sounds fantastic. Matt, thank you very much for it today and I'll chat to you soon. Nice to mate. Thank you. Thanks for watching.

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