The Uneducated PT Podcast - Ep: 142 Men's Mental Health

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

In this powerful live panel from Bray, Ireland, we tackle one of the most urgent and uncomfortable conversations of our time — the challenges facing young boys today. From struggles in the education system to mental health, identity, discipline, purpose, and the pressures of modern society, this discussion asks the questions many people are thinking but few are willing to say out loud. Why are boys falling behind in school? Why are anxiety, disengagement and behavioural issues rising? Are we failing young men — or misunderstanding them? And what responsibility do parents, teachers, policymakers and communities have in changing course? Hosted by Tayem Mercer, Chris McManus, and Paul Tracey, this panel brings honest, grounded perspectives without shouting matches or political theatre — just real dialogue about real issues. This isn’t about blame. It’s about responsibility, direction, and solutions. If you care about the future of young men in Ireland — this conversation matters. 👇 Share your thoughts respectfully in the comments. 🔔 Subscribe to hard Conversations Ireland for more discussions that challenge, inform and open dialogue.

Perfect, yeah. I talk a bit, so I don't know five minutes is enough, but I'm Ty M, guys. A bit about myself. I work in sales, so I'm a sales director for a multinational, dedicated a good part of 10 years into working with people with regards to mental health, mindset, essentially, right? more I wouldn't call it life coaching. I think mindset coaching is something I've done for a long time. Work with different people, currently working with athletes around mental strength, mental fortitude, working professional footballers, young professional footballers. So 16 up to 21, working with them on that side. So that's a bit about me. I think, you know, tying into my relationship with mental health,

I've had my own personal struggles growing up at the age of 18, and nearly took my own life one night at Houston Station, nearly jumped off the bridge. Just as a consequence of life, not going my way, parents' dynamic at home wasn't really great. So life wasn't making sense, and it's a lot of repeated days of just waking up and waiting for the next day continuously.

So that kind of drove me to that. Thank God I didn't do it, and I'm here today. But my relationship with mental health is more, you know, I appreciate my pains, right? And I say this in the best possible way, my life has been a beautiful but painful experience, right? And I love the pain and I embrace that. And that's sort of what my message is really to people.

Is to equip people to be strong when it comes to the struggles that we face mentally, right? Because let's face it, right? By show of hands, who here has struggled mentally? Just by show of hands, right? It's the entire realm. So what that says to me is this is something that's always going to be there and people are going to face it. And I think my perspective is understanding why, right? Why the pain is there for it?

how can I deal with it that way? And for me personally, I believe it's there for you, right? It's necessary for something to come out of it, for you to grow in a certain way, for you to get stronger, maybe to appreciate life a little bit more. I really do think that's the fact. And that's my message where I give to people, right? Your pain is necessary and it's important to understand why, what can you make out of it? What way can it change you?

And there's plenty of evidence. Like you look at the girls that were here, right? The girls panel here. a lot of them, when they were going through their difficulty, who would have thought that today they'd be standing here in front of people and changing their lives and giving advice based on the things that they've gone through? So that's something that I understood when I got a little bit older. I understood that it's not necessarily about me

and it's something necessary that I needed to go through, especially my mental health battles because my younger brother then became very suicidal at a certain age of his life. At six years old, he tried to jump out the top window of our house. so he struggled but we thought it was just like you know like a random thing then but then at 16 and 17

he struggled again with his mental health and you know he contemplated a suicide for a long time and that was a continuous battle that my family tried to talk to him about my mother tried her best, couldn't get through to him my older brother tried his best he couldn't get through to him and then one day got too much from my mum and she called me

and I took him out you know I took him out for some food and we had a conversation but I opened up to him and I said look I know exactly what you feel because I nearly took my life at 18. And that wasn't a conversation I've ever had with him before, right? You know, you went to therapy, they offered a medication and things like that, but I told them not to take it. Personally, I'm against it, right?

Because I do believe if that happens, there's a reason behind it. When it happened to me, there was a reason behind it. There was a problem that I needed to solve. And I didn't have the language or the resources to do it myself then. And so you just think, look, ending it is the best way to feel something apart from the numbness. But when I opened up to my little brother and I talked to him about it and we cried together and that's your side

right, we cried together and I told him I know what you feel, I was there and his was a little bit different to mine because he's never had a relationship with my father so that played a huge factor on him and he struggled but it's that that got him through the line by me being able to open up on what I went through

so I appreciate my pain because if I didn't go through it my little brother wouldn't be here today because everybody else tried to talk to him but it's when he realized oh he's actually gone through what I'm going through. So pain connects us and that's the beautiful part about it. I think it connects us and I think it makes you who you are, right? My life is being plagued by a lot of hard times, but they're good for me, really, really good for me because I wouldn't be who I am without them and I wouldn't change a single piece of it. So I think it's about

that. When we're talking to young boys, I think it's important to really get the message across to them that you're strong enough is one, you will overcome it is two and it does get better. I can promise you, that and you hear many other people's story here and you're going to hear more from the guys here, right? We survive things that most people think now or they're going through their own hardship and they think this is the end of it. But it's not. It gets better. And most of the success of my life has come on the back of hard times.

And I'm a better person because of the pain. And if I can end it on one thing, it's, you know, what do you think about pain is this, right? As I say to people, I say, if you haven't had your hair broken, you won't really appreciate love the same way, right? If you've never been sick, you don't appreciate good health the same way. If you're not thirsty, a glass of water won't really taste as good. So it's that about pain, and I think life does that. I don't think life is accidental. I think it's intentional.

And there's just some things that you can put yourself through, but life knows it's good for you in order to get you to the next level. And I think that's my sort of message with mental health. I think it's perspective and trying to use it for the benefit of you becoming a little bit better. So that's a bit about me. Chris Go ahead. Beautiful. I'm Chris McManus, Bray, Born and Bread.

From Fasarot originally, at the age of 11, I crossed the river, like many, moved up where Carl's from, to where I know him from. In terms of education, I'm now assistant principal and yearhead in a school of 1,000 kids in Ireland. I was an economic migrant before that, though, and I was deputy principal in England. But the irony, or not the irony, is I failed to leave and cert originally. I'm one of those many boys who fell through the gaps in terms of education, not because it wasn't academic, but because it was a boy. I was a messer.

Teachers couldn't control me. I couldn't control myself. I was disregulated in a classroom. So instead of me reaching my potential or even looking for it, I just looked a mess instead. It led to me to find the leaving cert, as I said, and it was several years. Support from my mom, me dad, luckily,

and the beautiful Sarah. My childhood sweetheart was down the back. at a room that helped me realise I did need to go back into education. So I did after several years, travel the world as an economic migrant because when I qualified as a teacher in this country, we couldn't get a job because the government had put cuts in education, which we'll probably talk a bit about tonight. So although I trained as a skilled person in Ireland, like many of us in this country, we are forced to leave to seek opportunities anew, came back from travelling under the proviso that there

was new jobs only to find there was still no jobs which is why we went off again and myself and Sarah we ended up in England we were there for eight years and that's where I became deputy principal and then we did come back because we have two beautiful boys Killian and Cohen two Irish young men and who we wanted to bring back to our home country but we are still in a country second richest in the world based on current GDP standards if you look around the room people are not in their head like really if you look around their streets if you look at our schools, that doesn't seem to be the case. And for me, personally, a lot of that starts in the home, yes, in the community, Paul, Ian, myself from Fasaro and different parts of community

development, how important it is, which has also been amaciated financially. But for me, the school system, because unless we have radical over changes within our school system, we're just going to keep doing what Einstein said is the first sign of madness, repeating the same thing over again and looking for a different result. Chris, will you also just touch on when you worked in the UK as well? Yeah, what do you want to know? So just in relation to like, you know, the struggles in terms of people in classes. Yeah, yeah.

So, so. So when we moved to England, we moved to a place called March, it's North Cambridge. So Cambridge is the most wealthy and affluent area in the whole of England. March is a farming village at the north of the county. It's in the top 10% oil disadvantage. for the whole of the UK. So most of the kids, 2000 in the school, had never been on a train to the nearest town, Ely,

which is 10 minutes away, had never been to Cambridge, very affluent society. So you've got the big devoid, which is what we have in society now. The elite in the class, because the divide and finances become you're the wealthy or you're the rest.

Within that school, there was lots of issues, there was deputy principal of behavior, was also deputy principal at a different time for teaching and learning, so teaching the teachers. And it was also definitely principal, different time for special education needs. But regardless of what guys I was under, there was 2,000 kids in front of us who were from an impoverished area. Parts of Bray are, parts of Bray aren't. But that led to loads and loads of issues, should we say.

So I think I told Carl, I used to teach 64 kids in one classroom for two years straight without a teaching assistant or an S&A and 300 kids in each year group. So within that year group, the 64, were some of the weakest students with most needs, most disabilities. And it was done because others couldn't control them, but also because there was no support mechanisms or finances in place. And we're seeing that in our schools now as well. We're working on an amazing school. Thousand kids. We're an Apple iPad accredited school. But the lack of funding means classroom numbers in this country are rising as well, which is a worrying trend.

So I've seen it obviously in the UK, but I'm seeing it in Ireland as well. And yeah, I don't know, do you want to keep going? Yeah, Paul, got ahead. Thanks. Good evening, everyone. Thanks, Carl, for having me. I don't think I've got much choice, but I'm here anyway. No, but my name is Paul Tracy.

Like Chris said, Brayborn and Bread. I grew up in Braille, played football, in Bray local football clubs. My story is I started helping out in summer projects in 1995. When I was 15 and 16, there used to be a summer project in the Little Lair Hall, back in the day and I started helping out there and I loved getting involved in running activities for younger people and when it came to me leaving school in

98 I had no idea what I wanted to do I knew I wanted to work with young people but I knew it probably wasn't in the guise of a teacher and you work was kind of only starting so you were told to do arts if you didn't know what you wanted to do you were all told going to art dropped out of arts fairly quick and got my first job as a special needs assistant after I worked in Tesco for a while Eventually got my first job of special needs assistant, went from special needs assistant to a part-time youth worker in Bray, full-time youth worker in Lerie,

and then in 2004 got a call to apply for a job in the Ballywaltram area of Bray, which I applied for got, and I've loved the young people, the young people, the families, everything I've loved, I've been there ever since, and it's been fantastic, and then COVID hit was kind of a little bit of a change for me. I've been there a long time in Ballywaltram, I knew, I couldn't do this forever, getting old, didn't have the energy I once had,

so trained to become a change. counselor and psychotherapist. So graduated that about a year and a half ago and doing a little bit of private practice in that as well. So still in Bally Waldrum, mixing up a little bit of private practice in the counseling and psychotherapy. And that is my kind of story.

That's my history. So we'll probably see 170 to 200 different young people a week. Lots of different challenges, lots going on. It's a tough era to grow up in, I think, where everything is on your phone. It's not easy. and for us to get into that zone to understand where young people are at and the pressures that are on them.

We see it, we can knock it, we can challenge them, but it's their lived reality and when everything is on your phone, TikTok, Snapchat, when you're using your phone to brush your hair, when all these challenges that young people are experiencing, create a lot of emotions, sadness, anger, happiness, you name, it's all out there. But the one I see it the most is anger and young people are very, very angry. They're very good of putting on a mask all day long and doing what they are expected to do or need to do.

And then when they're on home, playing on PlayStation, if they lose a game, they end up around, punch your wall, elbows through the table. Somebody said to me today because they know if they try the controller at the wall, the controller breaks and that's 80 euro gone, but it's as easy to put your elbow through the table or punch your wall. So the overriding emotion I see at the moment

is anger among young people. Under anger is generally something else I've found. It's generally sadness. So that's a little bit of background on me and happy to be here and looking forward to chat with the last. All right, opening statement, suicide, is the leading cause of death for young men aged 15 to 24 in Ireland. Young men are around four times more likely to die by suicide.

In education, which is strongly linked to mental health, boys are more likely to underachieve, more likely to be suspended or expelled, more likely to disengage from school earlier. An early school leaving is linked with depression, substance misuse, and suicide risk later in life. So I suppose I'll start with Chris. Why are boys consistently falling behind the school system

academically and behaviourally and from your experience in the classroom what do you say? Small question to start mate. I'd like to start by going backwards but I probably won't because it doesn't answer the question but if I just say one thing about going backwards our education system has not changed

in this country since after the Easter horizon. So 1925 was the first time we had the leaving cert. We still have the same leaving cert. Nothing has changed. I work with Ija and Kaur in the stay exam commission doing curriculum framework. And of the 39 countries around the world in the OECD, economic common ground,

so we have from Australia all the way to Canada, Ireland ranks second lowest in other opportunities at senior cycle. So of our school population that does the leave insert, only 7% of them don't do the leaving cert. So 7% do LCA. Everyone else does the exact same. That's one size fits all. That's why I failed the leaving cert.

So that's just one thing which is the end But to go back where does it start And someone said earlier about was it a thousand kids But it's on their four have anxiety levels That's on the rise now that was during COVID But if you If you look at the classroom now Or if you look at the support mechanisms

We are underfunded in terms of government And I don't know I don't want to get on my soapbox And I said it to you, mate I'm making my soapbox about politics And I don't want to get on the soapbox But underfunding is a huge issue And it cuts through everything

So me as a kid growing up in a council estate, if I didn't have community development, which this man is the leader of, I wouldn't be here today. And the only reason I knew about it was because my ma and my dad worked for the Little Bray Family Resource Centre. So they helped me push through. So without community development, I wouldn't be here.

But if you look through the lack of funding now, that development scheme has been amaciated. About 90% of the funds have been cut since the 1990s when I was a kid. 90%. That's mental. Now, if you look at schools, I don't know the figures in terms of how much because the government don't release everything, but funding is less and less given to schools. So how that's impacting us in terms of mental health?

You have a six-year-old child. When there's seven, you can apply to get to support and interventions they need. But at 10, they're six now in primary school, if, let's do an anecdote without giving any details about a kid, if they are falling behind in dyslexia, say, discalque, if they're not as strong as the other students in their classroom. They are not now getting to support the intervention that they need. They're not giving it enough. Now, that young child has already begun to fall through the gaps of education. By the time they are nine or ten, because they're still not getting the support, they now don't just have an academic issue.

They have a social and mental health issue. Because now you have a child saying, I'm stupid. I'm not normal. My best mate, Larry, can read, but I can't read. My best mate, Stephanie, she knows how to add up, but I don't. So I'm stupid. you've now got a child who's struggling mentally and socially as well as academically. Now what happens is they go through the primary school system.

They might end up before they get the secondary school lucky enough to have additional support from the S&As who are the bedrock of our schools that help them with support. If they're lucky enough to have that, that will help them. But even if they have that, it's still not enough. So if you're in a classroom as a teacher, you're trying to deal with 30 kids, and this is in a primary school, not even secondary where I am, 30 kids of different abilities. and needs and disabilities, most of whom don't have additional support. Now you're dealing with social and mental health issues from the classroom as well.

Then by the time it gets to secondary school, it only exacerbates and become worse. And Carl obviously has his figures. I'm a teacher. I've got me figures as well. Exclusion rates are the highest they've ever been in our country post or pre post-1950s. And they're on the up. And two to one ratio of boys to girls. That's in secondary school.

In primary school, it's two and a half to one ratio of boys. to girls that are getting excluded. I wasn't excluded because no other school in Bray would take me, luckily, but I still failed leaving cert. But we're talking about boys in terms of mental health and how it happens. Boys make up also a ratio of two to one in needs for additional needs. So for every one girl you have with a learning need, you have two boys. But in terms of support given, for every one boy that gets additional support, you have

two girls. Now, I'm not talking about a gender to avoid here. It's not fair, and I'm not saying it's not fair that the girls get more. It's because boys don't take it to support because of their own stigma, because they have to be a man in a man's world, because their parents don't often access or allow them to access it, as well as the school focusing on some. So I'm moving away from your question with Jamie,

but the idea of education and social and mental health, they go hand in hand. And currently our education system, which is archaic, it's over 100 years old. The education system is failing more and more young people, particularly boys. And that starts within the classroom and primary school. It starts with early intervention and that starts with the support that we should be giving them, but we're not.

And last point as well on that. I obviously spoke to you about how girls and boys can learn differently as well. And you said it was less about even a gender strategy, but more student-centered strategy. Yeah, and again, I don't know how long we have, and I know you've got loads of questions. I could sit here and talk for hours and hours about it, about students. similar things and different things. Girls outperform boys. They always have outperformed boys. Yes.

Well done. To all the women in the house, you are the legends, you are the bedrock of us, you help us and make us. But there's different reasons for that as well. So in terms of Ireland, 70% of teachers in secondary school are female, it's actually 67%, but as a parent

as well as a teacher, I don't want to say 6,7. And I know you said it earlier. So only 33% of her. secondary school teachers are male. Now we have the second lowest divorce rate, which you might think is not relevant to education it is. We have the second lowest divorce rate in Europe after Malta, which is 1% 0.9% currently. The average in Europe is about 1.4%. We've got the second lowest divorce rate. However, 17% of our children in this country are in a single home. So that's a single mother most of the time. 265,000 was the figure last year. I'm not looking at me

notes, 183,000 of them are in single women parent homes. So we've got more and more boys who don't have a positive role model in the classroom as well as at home. And because more and more those kids don't have the positive male role model at home from a younger age, that's then seeping into the education numbers that we have as well. And then we've already talked about community development and we'll talk with it more. If a boy then isn't going to a local GA club, soccer club or any other club, he's missing out on that possible chance of a positive role model there as well. So all of those are one aspect of it. Then you've got the learning needs of all. And again, boys and girls learn differently, but they also have different maturity levels. And you were the one that's posted to me,

Carl, should boys and girls enter school at a different age. I would say, yeah. My younger sister, Claire, she's a legend. She started school when she was five. She was only five. She'd literally torn it. I started when I was six and a half, I still wasn't mature enough, still nowhere near it. But that's because boys and girls develop cognitively differently. But then when they live in the society we live in currently, whether it's online with social media, whether it's the technologies, whether it's on the streets, they're developing different and they're developing a persona and a perspective they have to have. So there's two elements.

I can go on and on. Teacher training, it's not enough. Again, government funding or lack their own. means that our teachers aren't trained adequately enough. I'm working on another scheme called T3 DC. It's a group of schools in Ireland, well, we're the only school in Ireland. Italy, Spain, Portugal and Finland. And every single one of those countries, I was looking enough to go

to Lisbon a few months ago on a jolly. I won't call it a jolly, but it was paid for by the EU, but for four days I was working there. But every single teacher on that panel from all the other countries could not believe the level of difference between our classroom and theirs in terms of how our children are learning. We are by PISA, that's the international ratings of education. We're the second highest in the world.

Second highest in the whole world based on PISA for our literacy levels, reading levels. In terms of maths and science, we're 11th in the whole world. So we're up there as the best education provider in the world when we are clinically under-financed by the government. So imagine how much improvement we could have if we had more money to put in there. And all of these other countries who we outperform, and I was with them a few months ago, they couldn't believe the difference or the levels in what they put into their system. So in Finland, for instance, to be a teacher, and yes, I'm a teacher, but I fail me leaving cert.

I repeated, I could have been a mature student, but I insisted, plus my mommy is dogged, and she insisted that I go back and repeat the leaving cert for myself before I go into college. So I repeated the leaving search, got the point skin of the teeth to get into college. Once I was in college I got the highest every year for four years because it was a different learning environment. Because I learned differently. And that goes back to only 7% in this country get a different learning opportunity. So once I went to college I flourished and I went through the hardship of four years, became a teacher. And teachers start on about 26 grand a year.

Now people earn less in this country, people earn more in this country starting off. In Finland, to get into the education system, you have to have a doctorate. And to get into the education system, at primary or secondary, you'll start on about 80 grand a year. And society and the government value the teachers. Now, I know I'm a teacher, I get three months, summer holidays. But I do work seven days a week, and on the summer I do work as well, yeah. But it's not to say that teachers are valued or not valued. There's not enough funding put into teachers in education.

So we have a mill of teachers that are graduating and qualifying, but they're not graduating and qualifying to be an expert in social and mental health, which we need now. They're not being paid or qualified in working with students with disabilities or needs. We don't actually get taught that when you're training. Now, when I left as a deputy principal in England and a mainstream school, I was told by the CEO of the school, there's 26 schools, and he said, you're bland in an interview.

You've been deputy principal across all strands in the sector in England, but if you really want to cut your teeth, go and work in a special school. So we did in England, in Cambridge, full on special school from kids from the age of two up to the age of 18. And everyone in that school environment, every learner but every teacher valued what education was. Now, in Ireland, as a teacher, you get no special needs training. and there's more kids in our country and in the world that have learning needs and disabilities now. Autism levels, ADHD levels, all of these are on the up for lots of different reasons.

And all of you to have kids have a teacher in front of them that has never been given specialised education on it. So again, it goes back to funding, it goes back to skills or lack of skills are not enough given to help the teacher become the skilled person to teach them as well as everything else. Yeah, and I just want to emphasize that point because I think a lot of it, like the emphasis of it is education because if boys don't go through the education system, like the statistics

around it, you know, higher levels of loneliness, higher levels of suicide, you know, financially dependent, you know, unable to maintain relationships, friendships, romantic relationships. So like everything falls down through the education system. of the back of that. 100%. Learning is sacrosanct. Learning is what's most important. And we as a society, the government in particular,

need to actually learn that we need to be proactive instead of reactive. Currently we're reactive in all the services. We wait until it's too late a lot of the time. We wait until it's too late in terms of the education system. We wait until it's too late for anything that's going on in our current world. So the government, yes, they need to learn. But they also need to change because they're too reactive.

100 years plus in the same education system. I know, and I'm sorry, guys. I'm talking way too much. I'll finish with one thing. So going back to the 7% again, the second worst in the world, well, in the 29 countries within the OECD, 7% go to LCA,

93% go on and do their leaving cert. 64% of our country go to college and university. College and university isn't fit for 100% of people. It's not fit for 64%. The 64% drops to about 50% of those that stay in pass. Of the 14% that leave college, 10% are male. And most of them that leave, they leave because of the mental health issues. They've been pushed into a course they didn't want to do.

They felt they had to sit into the persona perspective that they were told that they had to do. So we need to radically change our education system. So, for instance, in the TY4th year scheme we do, Now, when I went to TY in the school, I should have been kicked out of, but couldn't be kicked out of because no one wanted to take me. It was when foot and mouth was in this country.

So for a year during TY, the teachers weren't allowed to take me out of a room. So you can imagine they wanted to kick me out of the school, but then during foot and mouth, I either stay in the classroom all day every day. Now, the TY scheme that we run in our school, we offer a complete alternative curriculum. And that's what leaving search should be.

So we do CBT, Cognitive behavioral therapy. unbelievable. It's what we all should be doing. Everyone should practice CBT. We do breathing and the kids come in and go, what the fuck is breathing for? I don't need to learn to breathe. But then after stepping back and breathing, they realise, hold on a minute, I can actually learn through breathing. We run barista courses, catalysts, I know the legend who runs catalyst and the money's making. Still wouldn't buy a point. But you tell him that. But we teach, we We teach all our kids in Ti-Y how to make coffee. We teach them all how to drive.

We do driving courses with them. So we're teaching them to be more socially and emotionally regulated. We're immersing them in this culture of difference. Every Monday they do a social and cultural thing around the island of Ireland. We make them go outside the school. Every Friday they do community development. So they have to work in a local school. They have to work in a local community club.

They have to go and pick up litter if they can't find their own job. Because we want them to be independent. But we want them to help contribute to society. society. That's what leaving search should be now. It shouldn't be sitting a room in front of 29 or with 29 others with me ticking down the back, someone up the front who's more educated than the teacher and someone in the middle who's picking her nose because that's the most valuable thing of the day. Yeah? We should be offering them alternatives where they have different courses that will help them benefit in their society. That's what we need to do. But the

government won't change it, even though lots of the people in government are from an education background currently taking a six-year holiday to be in politics. They won't change. They won't because they want to be popular for four years. And they're too afraid to change it. You used the word accountability earlier. There's no accountability. So they won't change it because they don't see it to benefit for them. Ultimately, what they should be doing is seeing the benefit for kids.

Because if you want to be selfish and look at the figures and the stats and the money, because the government, because the funding and education is not being given, we are spiraling from primary school to secondary school. And the kids are becoming what the government would say, a financial drain on society. They're also known as the forgotten generation because the kids can't get a house, whether it's rent or buying, because they can't afford to save. And if they can't afford to save, they can't afford to live. My favourite book of all time, The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist by Robert Thressel.

It's over 100 years old. Read that book. It talks about zero-hour contracts and lack of workers' rights and education back then. I've talked about way too much. Sorry, man. I should just go on what you said there as well. Bring it over to you, Tyler. Exactly, you're fine.

Don't know, I apologize. You touched, Chris touched on, you know, a lack of male teachers. and also a lot of kind of a rise of single home families and especially amongst looking after boys. Do we have like a deficit of male role models in community? And is that contributing to the mental health pandemic in young boys? Yeah, I would agree. But I'm also, I'd say accountability is a key word you use, right? It comes back to that.

I've heard a lot of talk about government and the government is. Like we all know what the government is. Like the government have never had the interest of you, your families or your children at heart. So the responsibility falls back on every individual. I really believe so. And I think people are underestimating their own personal power to educate your family, your children, right? And that's what it comes down to for me personally.

The role models you're looking for, you have to be those role models yourselves, for your kids, for everybody else. We keep talking about the government to government. Like a lot of what has happened in the West, my personal view, right, and all across the world is it's an outsourcing of the raising of children to the state. that's what's happened. And this is the issue that you get because the state have no interest in teaching them a lot of what you've mentioned there.

And I can guarantee you some pushback on a lot of those initiatives from a government perspective and the regulatory boards, etc. They don't want to try different things. They just want to feed people the one-size-fits-all medication and go ahead. Off you go. So I think it's about personal power and personally looking at investing into your own families, your children, etc. And the absence of those role models is because we all outsource the thing that we're responsible for, right? And it's things like this, when you're organizing these type of conversations, should be done a hell of a lot more from everybody because these are the empowering conversations children need to hear. These are the empowering conversations.

Everybody, even in this room, needs to hear. So that outsourcing, I think, is the biggest issue, and that's why the role models aren't there. But also the real role models, I think, for us men in this conversation we're having, being vulnerable, right? That's the thing that's lacking. Like for a lot of young men, the emotional intelligence and emotional education for kids, they don't have it. And not only from a schooling, but even in our homes. I never saw my father cry. I've never seen my father emotional emotional. I'm 32. I've never had an emotional conversation with my dad. You know, growing up as a kid, one of the things my dad told me was he never cried at his father's

funeral. So what does that tell me about what being a man means, right? It's not being vulnerable or shown that side. I think we as men need to have more of those. conversations and be vulnerable. It's an awkward thing. I don't think it's something we're naturally accustomed to, but it's something we need to do more and do with publicly. You know, people that have public platforms, I think whatever content you post, I think once a week or so, you should be posting mental health conversations because you don't know who's watching. You were the young people that are watching. I get a lot of message from people that say, yeah, look, I watched what you talked about on mental health. I'm going through it myself. And so you have a conversation that way. So it's

important. I know we all like to look right and all of that, but let's admit when we're weak as well because that's a normal thing that the issue that a lot of young men struggle with is they internalize that. And you mentioned anger. But that anger, if you look underneath it, there's pain. So show them how they express that pain, because we've all

gone through it. But when they're looking at somebody like you or some people may look at somebody like me and they think, oh, that's a real manly man. I cry. I tell people, I cry all the time. I have moments where I cry. I make space to cry because it's healthy. And I think these are the things that we need to educate young men on and have to transfer that energy into it. You spoke about it as well to me. Obviously, having that emotional vulnerability as a boy is important.

But are we also pushing that message down boys' trouts without actually creating the resilience that they need to be able to have that? Because it's great when you see Tyson Furry or a heavyweight world champion who's able to say how he's struggling. But he's also shown how capable he is to the world. and do we have a case where we have a lot of boys who may not be able to, you know, they don't have the language to do talk therapy or to express their feelings, but, you know, if they had more, you know, role models in terms of male coaches and people who can teach them emotional resilience and it's okay to cry, but now you need to get up and do this.

Like, I know myself, it was true sport that helped me to regulate my emotions. It wasn't true talking. Talking came after, but what? I needed to learn was to have a physical craft to then be able to express myself. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I strongly agree with that. And that's why I started a conversation.

It's about teaching people about the personal power you have, right, to overcome and you can overcome it. But then you need to have the different outlet. Sports is a great outlet. I'd agree with you strongly. I advocate for gym, right? My motto is don't let your demons take you to hell, introduce them to heaven. And heaven is the gym, right?

That's where you fight. That's where you get mentally strong. So it's important. And I think for any young man, you should be physically active, right? I don't know who said it. I think the firefighter, forgive me. I'm not good with names just yet. Ryan said it, right.

It's that aspect of being able to go to the gym and release that emotion in the gym and use it that way. So it's important. But I think a sign of physical strength helps with the mental side of things as well. So it's to teach them both. But when things get too much and you feel like exploding or crying or the emotional period, let it out. It's normal.

So here's a question for you. You spoke on how it's important to talk about these things, to show boys that you can express these things. But what if we're growing up in a society where boys are, you know, they're in a single household, they're not, they don't have a father figure, they're going to school. It's a female teaching them. And that's no issue to the female teacher,

but it's another female that they're, you know, exposed to. And they don't really have that masculine figure that can show capability and emotional vulnerability. that doesn't really set a child up or a boy up to be able to learn to express themselves, does it? It doesn't, but it comes down to the adults around them, right, to seek out those type of resources for that child. So if you have a kid and, look, not disrespectful to the ladies, right?

And he needs that emotional, masculine discipline in him or masculine guidance, then it's important for you to seek those resources out. Ask for help in areas that you can't do it yourself. recently I was down in Waterford right there was a young kid whose father was in hospital and he's struggling on the mental health side he wanted to commit suicide

and his mother reached out to me on social media and she said look you were recommended to me that I could reach out here's the situation with my son she reached out to somebody else who could have a man to man conversation and I went down and I had a conversation and that helped him to overcome that period while his father's not there and they're separated so I think it's important where you can't do it yourself

reach out and schools need to know that as well right these kids you need to know the home dynamic i think when as a teacher i think it's important and you probably agree with me this or correct me but i think it's important for you to know each student on a personal level and don't just treat them as a number or just another pupil the role of education is a very important one like when i work with people i like to make a personal on a mentorship it's not of one-size-fits-all yeah you can't give people that because everybody has a different problem so it's important you know each child that you're dealing with and what they're lacking around them, what their home environment is like, and then you can maybe guide them, there's youth clubs, there's people like yourself, myself,

so many different resources that are out there, people just need to use that. I think communities need to have those things in place, right? So when you're talking about role models in communities, right, you guys are talking about Bray? I'm sure there's a lot of strong men here with Bray, that if you heard a family was going through hardship, you can, you know, create something that people know where to reach out to. they know, look, come to these people and we can have that type of conversation. I have it in my community that a lot of African parents know if their child is struggling with

something they can reach out to me. And I've had plenty of conversations that way. Paul, I want to bring you in there for a minute as well because obviously, you know, you're working with young boys on a daily basis. Is that something you see in regards to a lack of male role models for them? I don't just going back to what you said there Carl just about you know young people coming from you know single-parent families and all the stresses going on at home strong for me is getting up and going to school yeah strong for me is getting up out of bed in the morning dropping your little butter to school on time and your late-time minister's good that that's strong and so I don't education is important course it is but it's not everything not by a long shot I've a group of third year starting their moths tomorrow them going to those mocks some of them and getting up and being there is a big is a big thing When it comes to role models, I like to build young people up as role models for other young people. For me, it's not about having famous role models or people that have done a lot.

We build role models. If we have first years looking to the third years, I don't think, geez, I could be doing that in a couple of years time. And the third years, looking to the sixth years, so we're doing something else. Those are role models. That to me is important. Of course, it's important. Chris done an amazing job, by the way.

The T. The T. White program sounds absolutely phenomenal. But the challenge is, what? What is being strong? For me, being strong can be the easiest things. You're getting up out of bed, going to school, going to your football train and doing your homework. That's strong enough for me.

That is strong enough for me. And if you can build that, I try and provide a space where it doesn't matter what kind of a day. If you had a great shit day, whatever it is, you can be you. And you can hang out with your mates. And that, for me, is what I try and do so. And we try and do. And I work with some great people now. And I've worked with some great people down the years as well.

And that, I think, has been a hallmark of youth work. No matter what is going on, this is your space. You own this, this is yours. One thing I really enjoyed from the conversation that we had is when we spoke about, sometimes it's not, for a young boy who's struggling, sometimes it's not about talk therapy or seeing a therapist or anything like that. Some of the most important conversations you can have is playing a game of pool or playing Xbox and having a conversation with a child like that.

Do you think there should be more of that where it's like, you know, creating an environment where, where boys can be active and kind of get conversations out of them that way rather than... I know, Carl, a lot of young lads and girls that I work with, if I told them you to go and sit in front of a stranger for 15 minutes and they're going to tell me where to go pretty quick. And rightfully so, when your brain's still growing and developing, you don't have those skills.

The sad thing about you work is those conversations around the pool table or when you're in the kitchen cooking, they never get documented. That's part of our work that you can't document. How do you document that that conversation happened, that you've just got a young person grounded and balanced. And that for them is enough on that day. So, yeah, so that's kind of what we try and do. We don't always get it right. We make plenty mistakes along the way as well, like all of us.

It's life, we're normal. But if we can, for me, if we can provide that space where teachers aren't at you, where your ma's not giving out to you, where the football coaches in ringing you tell you can just provide a room that they've designed, that's theirs, that they own, that they can be themselves in matter what is happening in their life that to me is good enough right now in this day and age

I think that is good enough Anyone have any bad on that? Does anyone have a... Yeah, no, go ahead, Chris. I only last Friday the kid's parent ring me and it was because... Sorry, I'm loud enough

without I'd say. You want to, sorry, it was only last Friday and it was a kid's parent rang me and she was devastated because the child was being bullied but the child didn't tell the mammy,

didn't tell the teacher, actually was sitting down playing FIFA with the youth worker. And what Paul is saying is right, and again, this goes back to men and mental health as well. I taking the guys of, again, my Mrs. Sarah, thank you very much, Sarah, probably because she's gone to the sauna three or four times a week in the gym.

And I was like, I'm missing a trick. I'm looking after my children every night and putting them to bed. Well, she's out with her mates in the sauna. But what I start doing was I start ringing my mates and saying, lads, why don't we go for a walk or a jog and go to the sauna? And it was something we'd never done before

because normally what I do is, that's crack mate you want to go for a sneaky point and we'd go for a point and we'd sit there not looking at each other looking at the wall or looking at the match the second division Belgian league or whatever it was so we could sit there and have a point and then kind of slip in geez I had a tough time

last week because we can't actually speak about it and what Paul just said now was the most empowering as a youth worker because the young people can open up but it's still as you said whether you're playing pool or when it's something like that. It's pointed in a safe environment isn't it where and you know what when one person opens up by finding a group it opens a

If you're sitting around and one person says, do you know what, why the shit weekend? Well, I actually had a crap weekend as well. And that opens the conversation where everyone gets to have their say. And one person, one young person realizes, you know what, it's not just me that's struggling at the moment. There's more people in my group are struggling and that open conversations. And that's in peril. Do you want to go for sauna? Let's go on.

So, like, going back to the statistics where we see that, like, you know, boys are dying by suicide. it's obviously a phenomenon at the moment. Like what is the answer then? Do you think there needs to be more investment in youth work? Like what's the answer to this? More investment in everything, isn't it? We've talked about schools being under-resourced. The youth work world is definitely under a resource.

The mental health service is under resource. That's why I'm here tonight because Kara is amazing. I think it's a fantastic thing that the young people are right and have this service. But there's always going to be work to do, isn't there? But the more we can do and the more we can advocate for and fight for for local young people, the more services they have, the more likely a better outlook for them is, surely. So, yeah.

You don't want me to keep talking, man. Seriously. Look, I'll go back, sorry. I'll go back to the figures you said, and it's shocked me, the 1.4 billion, was it, in 2024? 1.6 now. But again, for me, that's reactive rather than proactive. Because they're willing to throw all this money at it, which they're actually borrowing, by the way,

from the OUBF, whatever they're called. They're willing to throw loads of money at it. Yeah, there's the tool. They're willing to throw all the money at it. And they're not actually stepping back. Now, to be, and that's the difference between being a leader and a manager. Yeah, and it's not to have a go with the government, and 100% I agree with you.

It should start, whether it's at the home or in the youth club, or wherever else, it shouldn't just come down to one individual. We should all, we do all want what's best for our own kids, but we should all make sure that everyone in our community is getting what's best as well. But because our system is broken, because we have so many managers who aren't leaders, the difference between a manager and a leader, a manager can sit down and manage one thing or an organisation.

A leader can lead and we'll get the trust of people without asking for it. They won't beg and say, do you trust me? I can do this if you trust me. A leader just says, I need this done and the people will say let's do it. Yeah? And that comes because there's a lack of strategy. Strategy is the most important thing. Whether you watch Game of Thrones

or Man City beating Liverpool to this afternoon, sorry mate. Strategy is what's most important. And again it goes back to accountability. We have so many people across the umbrella of everything within our country and society who don't know how to lead, think they do, but actually they're just managing. And they're not using strategy to create the solutions. And that's what we need to do.

And that comes from everyone. It comes from people being here tonight. It comes from people talking, people sitting, everyone engaging in it. And it comes from all the services and everyone else that's being here as well. Can I add to that, yeah? So the question you asked, right, and I think this is an important thing for people to know, I don't know if anybody here has ever been to that point that you don't really want to be here. There's a deep emptiness that really comes in somebody.

to make that decision, right? And sometimes, unfortunately, even other people's words won't get you out of that situation. It might not be enough. And if somebody arrives at that point, sometimes it does get a little bit too late. And I talk about that from personal experience.

I always reflect and think, like, what made me come to that conclusion? It's days of feeling empty, nothing making sense, and that's the only reality you hear, and there's a loud voice in you that tells you, if you do this, all of this goes away. Right?

There's a loud voice. it's repetitive and it stays with you a long time, right? And some people fight it over a long time and you're really trying to silence that voice and sometimes it's tough. As much as we can do collectively, and this might be an unpopular opinion, there's some pains only God can help you with. I really believe that, right? Because at my lowest, I cried out to God and it's God that predominantly helped me come back from that. And I speak about that because I know it's taboo in the society and culture we live in these relationships with God, right? Religion does a terrible, terrible job and not religious by any mean.

But I have a strong personal relationship with God. Prayer, right? Prayer. It's just a conversation with something that can touch parts of you that nobody can. Something that can heal parts of you that other people can't. I've had wounds that no amount of alcohol, no amount of silly behavior could have fixed, and it's just that conversation. So I think that's another thing that I'd like to add on top of everything else is a contributing factor. But that important piece is just that little bit of relationship with

the source that made you was an important point as well and most people in Ireland don't want to talk about it because we do have a secular society now and and for people to talk about religion or talk about faith would be a better way to describe it there is a knee jerk reaction but would you say that it probably has had a negative consequence on young boys because um you know there's also a lot of benefits to us being a catholic society where you know families would go to church together, you know, you have structure, you have purpose. Do you think that's something that's also impacting it? Absolutely. Personally, I think it does. I think it's deeply fundamental and important, especially for young boys, because I think there's often time it's confusion and you're looking for purpose, right? But you can only find that from the one that actually sent you here, the one that made you here. That's my view.

He's the only one that can really give you answers to why you're here, what you're meant to do, and give you the resources and the help that you need to get there. It's just unfortunate a lot of people don't go to them. A lot of people don't ask. And I think religion has done a terrible job in explaining that relationship to people. I think it's acted more as a barrier. And all it is, it's a conversation with somebody that will never let you down. That's the best way I can say it.

Everything I have in my life, everything I am is because I ask for it. I've really done very little to be where I'm at. I asked for it and I got given. But I didn't ask of it in people. I asked the God and God gave it them. Right. And that relationship is not like, I'm going to say it's the best way possible. Like it's not like religion when you think of that you think like weird people that are out of the head and

You know what I mean? Incredibly Hypocritical people that pretend to be upright and that's not what it is my person of view the relationship of God is not that Come as you are imperfect as you are. You're a beautiful imperfection in the eyes of God and I think that Relationship helps in certain areas where conversation can't really go beyond that part I think just asking them for help helps I have a conversation as you look you said with me here like going through a hard time give me a dig out and it does like he has a responsibility that's the way i look at it right it's his job to make sure you you are okay but it's just sad that sometimes people don't go to him and say hey do your job mate you know but i think that helps

personally does anyone have any questions anyone brave enough ask a question i do yeah go ahead yeah absolutely i suppose totally out of my professional capacity and as a mother three kids three boys do you think parents don't just be interested to hear do you think mothers I know a lot of them are single mothers and all the stats that have been said with their alarm and then I raised my voice and single because their dad passed away I didn't have a choice but do you think we're powerless do you think mothers and parents are now powerless within a society of raising young men you're looking at avenues you're looking at the Vice of Conrader

and everything else in the Irish rookie team and all the stigma that comes out about men that you're hoping, and even our government when you hear Simon Harris and Meehan Martin, no matter what you think of politics, but the way they talk to women within that environment, that women are powerless

and mothers are powerless when raising men because you've got the outside influence coming in that we're walking on our next shelf. And I know as a mum, I remember my life, my guy's a big, And it's like, I'm walking on edgehouse, how do I approach this situation? When I'm fighting against a society that's creating masculinity to be something that's not. I'll just answer quite briefly and then you'll jump in.

Then you can all go home. Yeah. I'll be here for a night. No, I don't think so, right? I was predominantly raised by a single mother. My father wasn't really active in certain parts of my life, right? So my mother worked hard on disciplining us and teaching us things, right? So I look at, like, she's done a fantastic job, I think, hopefully.

But I think it's about learning, right? It's really about learning. I think a lot of parenting sometimes is done in ignorance. Forgive me, parents, but it is. And we just think we know what to tell a child or what they need. And I think from both sides, a bit of research helps in terms of understanding what do young boys actually need, right? What's the best way to discipline? What's the best way to teach you?

them tough love because that's an element that they need and I think it's not natural to mothers essentially to be overly tough on their kids but to us it's easy right I think so I think learning that is possible in an environment where the father may not be present I've seen single mothers doing incredibly well in raising their children so I don't think that's the case but I think it's nice well not nice but I think it's necessary to do a bit of research and not just think that you know it by you know ignorance alone let me put it that way if that answers your question oh i i i'll add to it as well um because it's tough and even when carl asked me at first i i'm not going to say i'm a feminist but i'm all for equality across the board

and i wanted to be not treading on eggshells but talking openly tonight but realizing as well that women are as important if not more important but there is a lack of male role models in society that are challenging it. Look, I'll give you an anecdote with my mommy. There we go. So, I'd say, I know my mommy. So, Nien, you know my mommy. So my mommy when she was pregnant with my youngest brother, yeah, she was a cleaner in a private school. And she, she stole my bunkbed ladder one day. And I was like, what are you doing, man? She tied a rope to it. And up until she was eight and a half months gone with my youngest brother. She put the rope or the ladder up against the wall, climbed up onto the wall. This is at the top of the faster row. Pull the lap.

ladder over, stashed it in the ditch, crossed the N-11, and went up and cleaned schools for a day. And then came home, climbed the ladder, then taught her. She said in Belfast, never did her exams, taught herself the leaving search and became a typist, became, got what was, an A1 or wherever it was back in the day in the leaving search. For me, she was the one that drove me in terms of academia. My dad never did. And me and my dad used to clash all the time because he coached me football, but he was the one that gave me a box. And she was the one that would put the fear me. I'd never curse because she'd give me a slap and that'd be harder than the box. So for me, my mammy is the role model and I keep bringing up Sarah and my child of

sweetheart down the back goes and she says I do. Yeah? But what's becoming more in society and this is what I'm seeing anyway and this is where I worry because I've got two boys and I see it in my boys all the time as well. The lack of male role models in our society and our society again is divided. The wealth is now done. The wealthy are gone and they're getting richer and we know that and everyone else has been left offender themselves. So now what's happening in society is there's other devides.

People are now causing devoid in race. People are causing devoid in religion. People are causing devoid in gender. And what I'm seeing in school and outside of school and as a parent as well and stepping back is the lack of male role models because we've got an outdated belief of what men have to be and that idea of saying toxic masculinity or not

or a man being able to cry and not. I've still never seen my dad cry. last week his best friend died and at the funeral he went to cry standing at the open coffin and as soon as he's seen me he turned away and he couldn't cry and I was hugging him that's tough and Sarah probably says she's never seen me crying we're to get her 20 something years

but that's the old perception of men and now we've got young men who are trying to fit into the new society so I took a and this this is a random one I took a survey of 180 students in my school last week in preparation for this I do debate every single a week, all 180 and T.Y.

You have to do debate. Yeah? Your line, Socrates, it's not yours, it's Socrates line. It's the opening line in my lesson. The only thing I know is I know nothing. And you have to have an open mind. And every lesson when they come in, there's no desks or chairs and I have something challenging on the board.

And I say, you have to stand on one side or the other. No one's allowed in the middle. There's no, there's no centre. You have to be divided. And you have to pick this side or that. And then you're going to argue over it and fight over it and try and change your opinions. So the other day I put toxic masculinity on the And it was after the adolescence Netflix show.

And all the boys stood on one side and all the girls stood on the other. And then I said, no, no, look, you aren't supposed to go boy versus girl. It's like, what do you honestly think about it? And the boys couldn't tell me what it was to be a man in the modern world. Then I did a random thing and I took a survey. How many people in the 180 in the year group have a hairbrush with them today? More boys than girls had a hairbrush. So you've got these boys that are standing in the room saying,

well, I want to be a man and I'm a fighter and I won't cry. I had a lad who cries to me in the office all the time. He's in fifth year and he's the tallest lad in the school. Always cries. But if you challenge him on it, he comes to me as his mentor. If you challenge him on, he says, I was told not to cry. My dad said it's weak and my sister's the only ones that are allowed have tears. So he's there on one side.

But last year when I did the debate with him, he was the one that was sticking up for the women and he's the one that's always brushing his hair with the eye pad as the mirror. So I think what's happening is they're lost in the middle now. They don't know, do they stick or twist? The round pegs or the square pegs and round holes, as you said earlier. And it's leading to more of an imbalance than a balance because they're lost.

And we all know if we ever lost, it's scary. And they don't know which way they should go. And that's what, look, what Carl's doing tonight is amazing, hard conversations. What you do make it sounds amazing. I know you for years and years what you do is amazing. All of you, some of who I know, it's amazing. But it's what needs to happen more. And in terms of young men and boys,

I think it's a scary world. Very scary. I think the one thing that I've found with parents, and especially with young boys, is that they always bow to their mommy. They're always, no matter how strong they are, they'll always, you know, be close to their mom. And that's their world.

That's their rock. And I think for you, that sounds like as well. You've three strong boys, but I think you're always going to be their rock. And I see that all the time with young men as well, no matter what happens, it's always, I'll have to ask me ma, I'll talk to me, ma about it. So, yeah, I think you'll always be there rock. Yeah, folks, round an applause for our last time.

Thank you very much. I just thought of course, thank you very much for coming, the fact that Utah came tonight means that all the conversations that we had about, you know, you struggling in modern society, at least now they will have a little bit more support in regards to being financially capable. to reach out for help when they want to. So a round applause for yourself for being out.

Appreciate you, Matt. Thank you, John. I should have more friends. Sorry, right. I told you, the talk as much as possible. No, let's watch as much as possible. No, that's all right.