The Uneducated PT Podcast - EP 151 — Brian Murray | Loss, Duty & The Reality of Mental Health in the Fire Service

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

Hard Conversations Ireland In this episode of The Uneducated PT Podcast, we continue our Hard Conversations Ireland series with Brian Murray, a firefighter based in Bray. Brian shares his experience of losing his dad in the line of duty — and the lasting impact that kind of loss has, not just on a family, but on how you see the job, yourself, and the world around you. We talk about:what it’s really like working in the fire servicethe mental and emotional demands of the jobhow grief and duty can collidethe culture around mental health in emergency servicesand why these conversations matter more than everThis isn’t just about firefighting.It’s about pressure, responsibility, loss, and what it means to carry all of that quietly. An honest and important conversation. About the Series — Hard Conversations Ireland This sub-series focuses on real stories, real people, and the conversations that don’t always get enough space — from grief and mental health to identity and resilience.

My name is Brian Murray and I'm a firefighter. All right, tell me a little bit about working in the fire service. Yeah, I've worked in the Forest Service now, nearly 18 years, a second generation firefighter. My father was Brian Murray Sr who was killed in the line of duty. I was to go into the fire service not so long after his death. Yeah. Can you tell me a little bit about that? For people that don't know?

Yeah, so September 26th, 2007, a fire and lower Darry Road and Bray, factory fire, Brian Murray and Marcos Schotton see were killed, a lot of controversy around it. Why? Helton safety stuff, cuts within the fire service, short staffing, there was call vetting, stuff like that, so where there was people sent down to check on fires before the fire engines were sent out and stuff like that. And have them things been rectified since?

They have, but they took a long time. The service is in a much better place now. But as a trade union activist, they had to go through and help Zip2 and the NRAFA and other firefighters around the country. We got together back in probably 2021, 2022. And we initiated a strike which brought much better conditions to the Forest Service throughout the country. Is there anything that is still needed in the fire service in regards to.

regards to, you know, the well-being of people who work there every day? Yeah, I think the fire service, to be fair to them, the local authorities are very good. They do provide supports. The problem is not the supports that are there. I think the problem is the lads gone and using the supports. I still think there is a bit of a stigma attached to our generation, especially within all first responders worldwide. It's just crack on, get on with it, you'd be fine.

my thoughts on that as somebody that came in I haven't been through a traumatic event already I knew that I had to learn how to build resilience and then it made me better at my job and I'd often say to younger people coming in if they are struggling that they should go and talk and sort it out because it'll make you better at your job you'll be able to function and operate at 100%

whereas if you're struggling you're not going to be able to operate at 100% so you're doing the disservice to your community and yourself as well. You're obviously going to be speaking on a mental health panel about being a frontline worker and the connection between them two things. Is there anything else that

people who are going to start this career that they should now say young people, say someone in your position back when you started? Yeah, I think it's not all, I suppose you could say, sunshines and rainbows, it's not what you see on TV, it's completely different. I mean, it's...

There's some, you go through some dark periods in the job, you'll see some horrible stuff, 99% of the population are never gonna see, you'll encounter smells and sites that will stick with you forever. I think that they need to, I think from, when they're bringing people in as recruits and stuff, I think they need to be educating them on that, that there is stuff that you're gonna see.

When I joined the job, you were brought in, you were trained and then you were out on the run, and then they brought in sort of, supports that you can use if you're struggling. And again, I go back to, I'm not sure enough people use them because of the stigma attached to it. What's the solution to that then, do you think? I think the solution to that is...

It's a hard one, isn't it? It is a hard one because I think it's generational as well. I think people just need to talk. I think you're stronger. I mean, you're stronger if you can sit there and you can admit, right, there's something wrong here, I'm not feeling right.

And, like, if you are feeling that way, as a first responder, you need to go and talk to someone. And it takes time, you know. I know guys that have had to do it, and it took time. And I often say to lads

that I know that have gone through stuff like that. Like, Rome wasn't built in a day. But it also, it didn't fall in the day either. So if you neglect these small things, the cracks will show. And, yeah, like, the biggest cause work

worldwide of firefighters dying is not the line of duty. Like you think it's actually suicide kills more firefighters than fire. And that's a global statistic. In this country, I'm not so sure what the stats are, but I do know of guys to have taken their own lives. I know there was a review in the UK in 2019 where 60% of firefighters were struggling with their mental health. Well, would you, if we have statistics like that,

Would that not suggest that maybe it's not something that is emphasized enough in them departments for them firefighters? Yeah, I think it should be, it definitely should be something that's explained to recruits when they come in. I mean, they teach us all this amazing stuff. Our training is first class of breeding apparatus, RTC extrications, medical training, working out how you. confine spaces, water rescue, we do all this stuff but all that training and equipment needs maintenance but what they don't teach it and they don't teach you how to maintain yourself and how to you know look after your minds your brain your emotions all that stuff and I think that's very important you know what what

do you think is an uncomfortable truth that isn't actually spoken about in your profession I think the masculinity in it is something that needs to it like again It is quite a masculine career. It is. It's very, you know, you think these unbreakable human beings. They're not. They're just normal people.

A lot of our job is mundane. It's boring. There's fire alarm calls and stuff like that. You're not the hero every day. And that can be a big struggle for guys as well because once you hit that adrenaline high, you find it very, very difficult to operate back down at a normal level. Yeah.

And I've seen that have an adverse effects on people's family life. A lot of firefighters end up. divorced and stuff like that. I mean, it's just... Well, that kind of makes sense, because you have this huge adrenaline rush, so you're constantly up, and then you go to born Monday,

so then you're down. So you're probably constantly chasing... If you don't have that high from work, people probably try to pursue it in other avenues. 100%. I mean, that can happen as well. Some firefighters do end up in addiction. They do end up with drinking problems

and stuff like that. Worldwide, again, I'm not just speaking in Irish terms. We're a small community worldwide. We all do the same job. The only thing that changes is the badge. I think this job, and it should be explained to anybody and any first responder from the member of the Gardy to the ambulance firefight. Our job rewheres you psychologically and rewards you physiologically.

It's very difficult when you retire. I know guys that are retired and some of them are in a bad place because they've had this hoi all their life and they've had the station, they've had the camaraderie, they've had the lad. that community, yeah. Then they're outside of. And I think that that's something that we, as SIP2 representatives, that we need to look at that.

Yeah, and we have spoken about it. Is that something that falls through the cracks then is, you know, that aftercare of people retiring? It can do. Again, I'm sure there is supports within, in fairness to the local authorities, you can't really fault them here. If you go to them with problems,

they will help you. Yeah. I know guys that have, I know guys that have been brave enough and big enough to do that. Yeah. But I also know guys that. haven't yeah and they do suffer in their in their well that's that seems to be then the big obstacle is actually the people who need it the most and the people stepping forward to use

them services yeah one of the biggest obstacles for four a men is themselves yeah and I'd say that for all first responders yeah we're almost I suppose you could say like you'd feel embarrassed to admit that you might be struggling they shouldn't you know as I said to you can operate you if you can admit that there's something might be wrong there, you're going to serve your family better, you're going to serve your community better, and you're going to serve the fire service better if you can sort out what's going on in your head. What's the culture like inside of a fire station for things like that?

It's getting better. We're getting a lot of younger people coming in. There's different generations now, as I say, in my place, we've nearly three generations of people, my age, 30s and even 20s. What wisdom would you have for people who were in their 20s starting in the fire station? If you're going to see things, you're going to experience things that aren't nice that 99% of the population are not going to see. So you need to be able to understand that if it's affecting you, talk to your crew. If you don't want to talk to your crew, ring the number that's on the station walls.

Talk to them people. You don't have to go meet them. You don't have to tell anybody. We've peer supporters in all the stations. You're not on your own.