The Uneducated PT Podcast - Ep 168 Philosophical Questions That Break Your Brain

Episode Date: June 30, 2026

This week Ryan and I step away from politics, fitness and current affairs and dive headfirst into some of the biggest philosophical questions human beings have wrestled with for centuries. Questions that on the surface feel simple, but the deeper you go the harder they become to answer. Is suffering necessary for meaning or can life be deeply meaningful without pain? Is lying always wrong or are there situations where deception becomes the moral choice? Can morality exist without God or are right and wrong simply human inventions? Should truth always be valued above happiness even when ignorance may bring peace? Drawing on ideas from thinkers like Friedrich Nietzsche, Albert Camus, Viktor Frankl, Immanuel Kant and John Stuart Mill, we explore both sides of arguments that force us to confront our deepest assumptions about life, truth, morality and what it actually means to live well. We are not philosophers and we do not pretend to have the answers. But I firmly believe conversations like this sharpen the mind, challenge certainty and remind us that sometimes the most important discussions are the ones where nobody walks away fully convinced they were right. This is an episode about thinking deeper, questioning your own beliefs and wrestling with ideas that refuse easy answers. Welcome to another hard conversation.

All right. Okay, this is episode two of things that you're not supposed to talk about. So in this episode, I am going to challenge Ryan. So we're going to talk about like philosophical questions that, you know, it can be hard to pin down. Now, I'm by no means an expert on any of this, but I do think I have been reading, I have been doing a little bit of reading in terms of philosophy. You're well read. You're well, well, well, well, I'm trying to get better anyway.

And I think even if you're not an expert, on certain writers or certain topics. I think even just if you can accept that you're not and still have the conversations, it can help sharpen your mind around them topics as well. So I think it's important to still talk about them even if you feel like you're not an expert while also accepting that you're not an expert.

So I know that I can throw these at you and you're well equipped to have these conversations. So it's going to be an interesting one. So obviously there's different type of philosophers that you can go in true. There's moral philosophers, so people who study kind of right and wrong, how humans should live. Like, you know, is morality objective, all that stuff? You have ones like, you know, knowledge and true, and you have ones like society, justice, all that stuff.

You have ones like suffering, individuality. That's kind of Nietzsche and Camus and stuff like that. And you have obviously stoicism, which is, I know, one that you like. And that's kind of on virtue and resilience and, you know, Marcus Aurelius and Seneca. all that stuff. I'm going to ask you a couple of different ones based around different kind of philosophical topics. And then we'll also kind of explore both sides of the argument as well. Okay.

Now, just for the listeners, Ryan hasn't had any time to prepare any of this. So I'm just going to be asking them and then getting his thoughts. So all right. the first question that we're going to go into and this topic is kind of spoken a lot about with Nietzsche and Camus and Victor Frankel and the main question is is suffering necessary for meaning or can life be deeply meaningful without suffering so I think I'm not going to know what your answer is going to be for this one but the question is and you answer is suffering necessary for meaning or can life be deeply meaningful without suffering?

I think that's actually a very good question and very difficult to answer. I would probably say the first. So suffering is necessary for meaning. I think suffering gives meaning, but I don't think only suffering gives meaning. So this is why it's tough because suffering is inevitable for everyone. right so you're going to suffer whether you like it or not and the first thing when you said the second question was i was thought of a mother raising a child like that's a beautiful thing yeah which is a parent of childbirth yeah so i think suffering is inevitable and i think it reveals deeper meaning

and amplifies meaning within one's life um i think without suffering you would be uh spiritually and morally destitute to meaning you wouldn't necessarily need it if you wouldn't necessarily need it if unless you chose to seek it, so to speak. You don't know? And like, who did you mention? Like, who was it? Like, for example, Victor Frankel. Victor Frankl.

Okay. He's brilliant. Like, if you look at like man's search for meaning, for example, right? For anyone that doesn't know he was in the concentration camps, he wrote a book on it. So, yeah. So man's search for meaning is exactly that correct. And like, for example, that's a famous quote which is like, those who have a why can bear almost anyhow.

Yeah. So if you have a why, you're going to have to bear something. What is that insinuating suffering? But in Manzor, he also says, when we are no longer able to change a situation, we're challenged to change ourselves. So, yes, I do truly believe that suffering has a level of meaning you cannot find anywhere else. It is also a necessary part of life as a human.

So if you know you're going to encounter chosen and unchosen suffering in life and its inevitability, does it give life meaning? Purpose gives life meaning. But suffering allows you to see the meaning within life. That's the prerequisite to it, right? The lesson within it. So I would say the first question, because if you even look at like, for example, like Albert Camus, you know, he was talking about, he was talking let me get this right I think he was talking about the myth of

of Sisyphus yeah that was his most famous book absurd absurdly basically like life is absurd and and nothing there's no meaning behind any of this

and so you should accept that and and live your life anyway with meaning true but he wasn't all too nihilist comparatively speaking because no no no he was saying it in a way that yeah uh none of this matters and now that you know that you can be free to go and live your life in in the observity of life exactly and i love that because in the myth of cisyphus when i'll tell everyone about the story

of cissippus in a second he says the struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart one must imagine cissophis is happy yeah right so and cisophis for everyone wondering who he is is he was the guy who was cursed by the guards to always push a rock up a hill. He got to the top and he pushed back down. Right? And he always had to push the rock. And the irony of it is he got stronger and stronger and stronger as he pushed the rock. You know?

And this kind of, what's the best way to say it? Reflects that, yes, suffering has meaning. The difficulty, I think, a lot of us find is that suffering isn't pleasant. No. you know, it's not a pleasant experience. But the beautiful thing about it is there is meaning. You know, you can even look to the Bible easy, right? You know, I'm always going to refer to the Bible.

I'm going to bring the gospel to the people. I have no shame in it whatsoever, my promise. You know, like it literally says, and I think in the book of James, where he goes, let the full effect of suffering. Let's suffering have its full effect on you. and let suffering produce perseverance and perseverance strengthens faith. Right? And, you know, we can list off a multitude of different philosophers.

And that's not us even going into the Stoics, who didn't just believe that suffering had meaning, but believed there was this important existential thing that was a necessary thing for everyone to seek, not just to feel, right? So it gets very interesting the deep you go, philosophically speaking. Can I ask you? So I have loads of pushback questions on this.

Now, obviously, like in what you, so obviously these questions can be kind of very like dichotomous, like either A or B. And obviously you're speaking about kind of the in the weeds of both of them, which is really important. But even on the Stokes and stuff like that, they wanted to seek out suffering. Are we sometimes confusing suffering with challenge? Like, could growth happen through challenge without actual suffering? And I'll give you an example if, like, let's say we create an AI utopia where there is no more suffering because we've solved all these problems of, you know, disease and hunger and I don't know, even heartache and...

That'll be awesome. Well, maybe it wouldn't. Maybe it wouldn't. It would actually be awful. No. Yeah, would have, if we have no problem. I think of this in terms of like if we, if we have the perfect world, that would probably be awful, but trying to stay on point with this one.

If we do, if we do solve all of the suffering in the world, can we still have meaning true challenge? Like, you know, learning the piano is difficult, but it's not suffering. That's a very good point. So the first thing I would do is a pull of Jordan B Peterson And I would say to you define your terms We understand suffering Okay fair

What do you need to be challenging? Because this is where me and you may run into an impasse Because for me a challenge is Okay, step onto the jih Tjitsu medal Step in the Moy Tire and get the shit kicked out of you And see if you can body it and beat him, right? So what do you define as challenge? That's a good question

Because you could obviously divide define going through all of them intense training sessions are suffering. That is. You're not enjoying them for sure, right? But you have a very good point of playing the piano. But I can also guarantee they will become, excuse me, you will, if let's say you started playing the piano, reach a critical impasse in which the only thing you can do

is practice the same thing you've learned because you haven't optimized it yet, right? And that's going to be a point of frustration and contention for you where you'll ask So it's a question, should I keep playing the piano or should I stop because I'm enjoying it right now? Yeah, yeah. And I suppose, I suppose learning the piano can be suffering if you're going to take it to the extreme where I want to become the best penis in the world where I'm, you know, practicing 10 hours a day and I'm sacrificing relationships and my mental health. And I'm giving everything I have towards this one pursuit because I've become so obsessed. there's no I mean who's not to say

that's not suffering you're suffering for your craft this is what I mean so you know I don't think you can live like

I've asked myself this question like more frequently than I'd care to admit not just to myself but to God as well being like

do always have to suffer and the answer is no but you will at some point it's inevitable right okay can I ask you another question then.

Yeah. Okay. So if suffering gives life meaning and we accept that suffering is part of life and it gives life meaning, should society deliberately make life harder? No. Why not? Because you're going to... If we have a deficit in meaning in people's lives, why would we not make their lives

harder? Because it's not about making a person's life harder. That's relative, right? So I could... and it's either seek out your suffering or see you. Right. Now, if you objectively make everyone's life harder, not everyone has the capacity to find the meaning that they necessarily need to push

through the suffering and grow. Some people may kill themselves. So if you kind of blanketed it like that, you could cause some problems. But on like the complete inverted side, I think there should also be an element of more difficulty within your life. And because society has made your life more easy, it now falls into the awareness of the individual, the self,

to actually go, okay, I need to seek out some chosen suffering, right? You know, because like Epictetus has this amazing, amazing quote where he says, what does he say again? He says, it's not what happens to you, but how you react to it, that matters. So pay attention to that. It's not what happens to you, irrelevant. Right? It's how you react to it that matters. So if that's the case, then what matters most is your reaction to something. Now, your reaction to something good is easily anticipated. There's no virtue in that, right? There's no virtue in forgiving someone

who's done nothing wrong. Yeah. Right. There's nothing there, right? But how you react to something that is adverse or suffering and you react in a beautiful way or a way that allows and facilitates growth or understanding or okay I'm in the throids of it what do I do just keep walking that allows allows the person to actually reveal themselves to themselves so do you think that parents should intentionally create suffering for their children so our lives can become more meaningful because obviously we look at a society now where we've created um we've designed a world and a society for kids that make everything relatively easy but it's also making their lives harder so for example you know they they don't really have to work to get things they have the all the

opportunities on their phone um like their lives are relatively or objectively easier in every sense but they obviously have a a deficit in meaning maybe and they're anxious, they're depressed. They don't know what to, you know, do with themselves. I think I remember seeing a study. I don't know. I'm power phrasing this and I could be incorrect if anyone is going to calm me out on it, but I think it was something like, you know, depression significantly went down during times of war

in yes yeah it's true though I I suspect yeah yeah yeah

and also you're not really and also like you're not really worrying about when you're

when you're not really worried about your thoughts when you're really outside of your body to take it about actual real real danger

so so do you think right if if if if we need suffering for meaning should parents not intentionally create more

suffering for our children to make their lives more meaningful? Depends on, again, you've got to look at the nature versus notion. It depends on the environment in which they're raised. And if suffering is rife, no, no. You may actually need to alleviate it because a child can only handle so much. Yeah. If a child is born into a family where everything is handed to them 100%.

So, for example, okay, if you watch the floors, I'll pay you a bit of money and you can use your pocketwintergo into the sweets. Something like that, right? So it is dependent. Do I think that kids' lives right now are very easy? No. But do I think they have to mature mentally quicker to be aware of the problems that are occurring with regard to social media, anxiety, male loneliness, and female loneliness, so on and so forth?

Yes. So there's a big push on development for the child in terms of a more moral perspective quicker now than ever. really, you know. So I don't think you need to add more suffering because I give you a simple example. When a child's learning to walk. Yeah. Right.

We can't sit there and say, he's suffering. Like, oh, he's suffer well, kiddo. You don't know, right? But he's probably struggling to stand up. You see him fall over again and again. And as a parent, right, I'm not, look, I'm not a parent. So I'm not going to say you don't get involved, but you help him up. They fall over.

They learn to get up. They walk a couple of steps. They fall again. You're like, well done. and then they start to walk a bit more, right? Like, obviously I'm condensing this. But there, that child has hit to them the biggest wall of their life, right? Yeah.

And that's enough, you know? So I suppose what you're saying then, without putting words in your mouth, is that more suffering doesn't equal more meaning. Dude, you're asking really good questions there. I know. This is why I, this is why I pre-framed this call as, like, because I've gone through. like I'm just going to fire some philosophical shit you away, bro. Like these, these are so,

these are so difficult to answer, but, and most people haven't had these conversations with it. And obviously you're, you're taking on these conversations without any, any, uh, any,

like, um, any pre warning beforehand. So it's just, coming straight. But it, there, it,

these are really difficult ones that you can, you can really, you can really pin people's opinions down on it. Because if, if some people will start off conversation saying like you know yeah more suffering does equal more meaning and then you can kind of flip that by saying okay if if suffering creates meaning does a child with terminal cancer have a more meaningful life than a healthy child and like you know that's a difficult very good question there as well fuck i could answer both if you want you could yeah and

you can answer it about both ways i would imagine yeah that this is the thing is and this is why when you have these discussions that i encourage everyone to have with your friends, your family. It's awesome because it gives you perspective because philosophy is and always will be to literally the day the earth stands still, the great equalizer. It's what it is, right?

Because to be philosophically aware, morally aware, and actually have a level of self-aware and actually have a level of self-awareness, all you've got to do is ask questions, question, statement, why, what's happening there? And then all of a sudden your mind expands and grows. And that's why I think it's awesome and what people have this conversation,

but sorry, the question you had, go through. Yeah, so does more suffering equal and more meaning? I think you can find more meaning in the throes of suffering,

but I'm going to ask you a question, okay? Oh yeah, flip it back on me. I have to, I have to because I actually want to, I want to nail this down because this is brilliant.

Go, go, go for it. What's the difference between meaning and purpose, bro? Because this actually matters. This does matter because we didn't, We did.

Purpose is everything, especially for men, right? Like if man doesn't have a purpose, he has lost. So what's the difference? So what would you define as purpose then, just so I can distinguish between purpose and meaning? Purpose is your ordained calling. What you are made to do. That's your purpose. Meaning is finding purpose where you can't see any.

Or where you didn't ask for it. yeah I suppose a lot of meaning is a lot of meaning is I didn't ask for this life I didn't ask for this circumstance I didn't ask for this situation I didn't want it

but it is here now and I have to try and find something in this that can essentially keep me going the biggest question that every person reaches when they have that conversation this is why people like that

have those conversations in their head is why. Yeah. Why is it happening to me? Why? Yeah. What is going on? It's not why be why, why, why, no, right?

It's, hold on. Why am I getting the short end of the stick? Why am I being abused or why am I being manipulative? And if they're not angry and I'm felt in a reactive state, you can then go, okay. It's because, okay, and then you philosophize, right? You have to figure this out. And you have to find purpose or meaning within that. that. So your definition of meaning as what?

I suppose it would be that as I said, my definition of meaning would be that is finding. I know I'm using I'm using the words to define what I'm trying to say, which is not not appropriate. But to find to find something within the thing that I'm doing in order to to continue to keep going. Okay, so back to the question you asked. Yeah. And I can answer it now. Go through it.

What is the question? So the question is, does more suffering create more meaning? Yes. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. So if that is the definition of meaning, then 100%. Okay.

Okay. So if suffering creates more meaning, then should we create more suffering? in the world for people? No. Then suffering itself cannot be what creates meaning. It's not what creates meaning. What creates meaning then if not suffering? Everything.

But what you find in suffering is what gives and creates meaning as well. It's not saying you can't find it elsewhere, but unfortunately it's a necessary road you've got to take. Okay, here's a good one for you then. So would Paradise be meaningless? Hold on. Are you just Googling gotchas or something? shit. No, no, no. Yeah, I have.

This is a really good question. I know. Now, do, if you want, we can flip to the other side of it, right? So the position. No, no, this is great. Yeah, so position B would be no, suffering is not necessary for meaning. All right. Okay. So let's say, let's say that's your stance. I know it's not your stance. I know your stance is actually somewhere in the middle, which is, which is probably, it's probably more correct. It's like, it's not being, um, you know, again, it's not dichotomous. thinking it can be their could do it's it's star wars yes deals in absolutes yeah yeah absolutely it's

like there are there are no absolutes in this but so let's say you're your position is no suffering is not necessary for meaning then would success mean anything if nothing was difficult so if you could like if let's say we we we're we're a hundred years into the future right a super ai has you know done what we said it's it's it's you know been able to solve all of our problems. Like if you could instantly master every skill without effort would achieve more. What value would it have? Yeah, well, would achieve and still feel still still feel meaningful. If you didn't know this is this is where it hits a fucking mad impasse. You wouldn't know what achievement is. You wouldn't know what success is. You wouldn't be able to comprehend to understand

it because everything's vanilla. Yeah. What like here's a good one. So like let's say you became Ryan became Jiu-Jitsu world champion just by the press of a button. Oh, no, that would suck, bro. I hate that. Yeah. I'd absolutely despise that

because then it carries absolutely no weight. So if that is the opposition stance, then I stand on the exact opposing side, which is because, and the reason I stand on the opposing side is actually very simple. Suffering isn't a choice. Now, some people say it is.

There is chosen and unchosen suffering to be abundantly clear. here you're born in the ghetto you don't choose the fact that you're going to suffer there right but you date a chick and she mentally manipulates you you kind of chose your suffering there a week right you know what I mean you perpetuated a little bit of it by allowing shit to slide right not that I would notice about that or anything was home I don't know so the point I'm making here is those are two inevitable roads right so if you need to get from A to B unfortunately you're going to have to take those routes they need you have no choice

So that means there's an inevitability factor in play. Suffering is going to occur. Now, the chosen, unchosen is now irrelevant. We know it's going to occur. So if suffering is going to occur, what transpires from suffering? Pain, agony, heartbreak, loss, confusion, right? All the totalities on one end. But like every pendulum, it has to swing to the other in order for the person to continuously move down that road.

right? So if they don't, you get suicide. You get spiritual death. You get indulgment in absolute sin, right? That's what you get. And for people who say, okay, cool, I'll live that life, free of suffering. You will perpetuate your own suffering. I'll give you a simple example. Hedonism, hedonistic whim. You have a very dark, creepy fetish or something, right? And you, feed it, then that's not enough. You have to feed it again. You can look at this with regard to serial killers, right? They start watching pornography, and then it goes to, you know, smelling a woman's hair, right? And then it goes to trying to talk to one, and then they get rejected. Suffering moment there, right there. What happens now?

Because it's not going to be pleasant. Now, now, right now, in that moment, your virtue and how you move through that is beginning to be revealed. And a lot of people are sheepish about that because a lot of us, including myself, think we're more virtuous than we are. Yeah. And it reveals your true self. And then you go, oh, so there are actually holes in this shit?

Oh, I thought I was fine. So then you've got to plug them. That's the awareness part. Or you don't and you die or you kill. But in terms of that, right? And that's a really good point. so, and I suppose this ties in with it. So are, like, let's say you do get rejected or whatever it is

and you take it with grace or whatever it is, and you practice virtue. Are some virtues impossible without hardship? Yes. Yeah. 100%. And that's like an easy close. Like, most of your virtue is found in hardship.

You know, if you go look at, let's see, the most canon events of your life, they all came because something occurred before that wasn't perfect or wasn't pleasant. You know, the classic bro is saying, breakups make body bullers, bro. Yes. Or it turns you into a weak man who hides under his sheets, is afraid to talk to a woman or whatever it may be. Or it turns into, let's say, like a womanizer and you do exactly what someone did to you. Someone broke your heart so you go around.

And say brutal. Yeah. That's suffering because you will suffer for that. You will feel an empty hole that can't be filled by any random trick you meet on a night out. You'll be like, why am I so devoid of love? I don't deserve it. Now you're encountering suffering, but your own mind is now you're jailer.

And now you're in some deep shit. Because when your own mind is your jailer, sometimes you fail to see it, right? The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was making people think it wasn't real. So do you think courage doesn't exist? without suffering because I mean if you suffered let's say that we'll use the we'll use the example of someone got their hair broken let's say a girl cheated on your and something like that you then that gives you the opportunity to say okay I'll have the courage to go out and try and find love again or I can retreat into my box

room and not talk to women and you know um not try again yeah no I don't think suffering is a direct direct cause suffering is not direct causality for courage yeah it's not but can courage exist without suffering because if there is no if fear is present yeah then courage can exist yes yeah well fear would not be there if they're without suffering because why would you fare something that you're not going to suffer from because like simple you could be afraid of the fucking boogeyman mate yeah because because you're afraid that the the buggy man is going to

I don't know, attack you, which is following and suffering, isn't I? Then you're afraid you're going to suffer at the hands of this person. So then, yes, you can produce a level of courageousness for sure. Yeah, yeah. In my opinion, fear is your direct litmus for courage because fear is literally, I think it was Lincoln who said it. I'm not sure. But he said, the brave man is the man who was just as scared, but hold on for five seconds longer. And I can attest to that because I've walked into those more tirades.

Those stadiums packed with people. I've been publicly humiliated in my first fight, right? And these are all very, very painful things. These are things you can learn from, and you can great courage. You have no idea how scary and how skinny I am every single time I've walked to that ring. But what are you, what's the fear? Oh, the fear is, bro. Okay, well, you firstly, everyone listening, you still need to get on Calabar about coming to Thailand.

but the fear, right, is you're walking in there. I can list it. I can go through it to my head. Yeah, do, do, do. I'm going to get knocked out in the first round. My conditioning is as good as it should be. My weakness is my defense on my left leg. What if he realizes my ankle is a bit fucked?

What if I gas out? What if he embarrasses me in front of everyone? What if the whole crowd booze me? What if I can't hear my corner? What if my gum shield falls out? What if he breaks my orbital bone? Because I know, this is literally what I thought. and all keep fighting and that's like really bad because you can kill yourself that way you know like

what if what if when I kick him this is a common fear of most people what if when I kick him my leg snaps yeah but why why why do you fear your leg snapping I I fear it but I don't no but why do you why do you fair what's what's the scary part about your leg snapping me personally or just a general because no you personally so me personally, the scary thing about my leg snapping would be not being able to be physically active for an elongated period of time. And would you suffer in that time because you wouldn't be able to do it? 100%. Yeah. So in that, so if we if we tie fear to suffering, which a lot of people's fears are, they're fairing this thing because it suffers, then you could essentially say you cannot be courageous

if suffering doesn't exist because suffering exists true fear. Yes. If if if if if if if if if if if if if They do definitely go hand at hand. Totally agree. But if someone said to me, okay, if there was no suffering, could bravery and courage still exist? Let's say yes, if there was fear. Yeah. But I don't think you're going to,

I don't think fear exists without suffering either. That's the point I'm getting at. Yeah, I agree with you, actually. I do agree with you. I have a question, though, because I want to poke a hole in that and see if I'm wrong. There's two and eight years. Think about why people, why do people,

why do people fear dying? That's a very good question. I don't. I don't have that at all. The chip does not exist in me. Really? No.

Don't have it. Because I've had enough of those encounters, bro, that like, without, you know, getting you banned off platform or something, that for me, I welcome when that day comes. And that scares girlfriends. It's scared family members

because sometimes I seek it through pain, through suffering, through fear, through doing mad weird shit. So, for example, in jih Tzu, I purposely get people to lock in chokes on me where you can't escape to see how long I can survive before I pass out. Yeah. See, I fear death and I fear that because I'm scared that,

I'm scared of not knowing. So this is always the unknown in the world, which they always will be, suffering and fear will always exist, correct? Yeah. Therefore, if suffering is an inevitable road you've got to take, we can then agree that you cannot live a life of purpose nor meaning without suffering. No, I don't, I think suffering is necessary for meaning. But then you have to ask yourself the question.

question, would Paradise be meaningless because there would be no suffering? It wouldn't. I can tell you exactly why. It would or wouldn't? Paradise would have meaning. Okay. Even though it's devoid of suffering. Okay.

Why? Because you know what suffering feels like. And this is where people are going to say I'm a bit nihistic. Yeah. But going off the biblical perspective, we kind of messed it up. right like we ate the apple okay from the tree of knowledge right you go through this world and it's not all sunshine and rainbows and the reason why i'm mentioning this is in the book of genesis before they ate from the tree everything was sunshine and rainbow because god grew the crops which they were

like everything was fine everything was perfect and then we fell as humans now god knows everything all the time so if you know you're going through suffering if you know your kid has brain cancer bro right? You think God isn't aware of that. It'd be stupid if you didn't. But through this whole life of yours, you are not only going to suffer, you're going to see other people suffer. And your life, although finite in the terms of the cosmos, is a long time, right? Let's say he lives like 70, maybe longer, maybe we live to 90, 100, you know, the way things are going, whatever. For that amount of time, you've experienced suffering and you've rejoiced the things. in your suffering, which means when you get to paradise, you actually have a perspective

and understanding. And because you can find meaning and suffering and happiness within life, that is suffering in and of itself, no matter how beautiful it may be, trust me, as in the most beautiful sunrise and sometimes I'm crying, bro, right? If that is the case, then when you get to, let's say, heaven, hopefully, right, for all of us, you will appreciate paradise. If I let you taste a sweet and you say, to me. Brian, that sweet tastes amazing. And I said, was it your favorite? And you're like, Ryan, that was the best sweet ever. And I was like, cool, bro. And I take it from me for three weeks. And I just say, here it is, but you can't have it. Your mouth's going to be watering.

And when it gets to the end of that three weeks ago, bro, here's a whole pack. How good are they good at taste? Okay. So you're saying that because you have the awareness of suffering that makes, when you do go into paradise, that gives that meaning then? No, that's not what gives it means. meaning, God gives paradise meaning. What I am saying is suffering allows you to have perspective when you're there. Okay, okay. Perspective. So what about, what about artificial suffering?

So if humans need suffering from meaning, could we simulate struggle artificially and get the same meaning? So like a virtual world where challenge exists, but nobody truly suffers? No. No, no, brother, because you wouldn't get the actual mental ending. This is why I love being a coach, physiological adaptation required for you to actually get to the next level of whatever it is. So no, you can't simulate suffering, bro. Why does real pain matter then? Okay, well, I'll give you an example.

Go ask a Navy SEAL. Say, okay, was buds hard? Was there a lot of suffering in buds, basic underwater demolition service? They'll be like, yeah, it was the worst time ever. And you'd be like, okay, how many guys are using combat for? How was that? Beyond Bonds and that. You see what I mean, right?

There's levels of the game. So, yeah. You know, I think it's important. So do you think that we shouldn't take away to suffering of, let's say, sick children or adults who are older, elder adults who are in pain? Or, um, not at all. I think you should, I think you should do everything you can to help to serve. Because this is the thing, right, is you're not the perfect judge, nor am I.

Yeah. Okay. God is, right? Which means what we dish out proportionately speaking, it may not be just, may not be fair, may not be right. So we're called to try and be the light, right? We are called to try and serve to help others because guess what? life you're going to incur suffering

guess what some people are stronger than others some people need to help the others right teamwork makes the dream work so when you see someone suffering you don't go he's learning he's learning because for all you know because you're being the judge there for you know he's thinking tomorrow I'm going to go to the shoe range and I'm going to pop a fucking

cap in my own head but you're like oh no he's suffering he's going to learn from this who are he's like me no no no so i think it's it's in our best interest as humans and as a christian especially like you're called to serve you are called to help you are called to help others no matter what and beat it for them do whatever you can you know and it's imperative like if people are getting like i don't care if you are but if you want me to take it away from the christian thing i can even go to buddha right this is like there's a literal quote from i think it's called the

truths by Buddha, right? Because remember, I've read all the scripture, right? I'm like a roots in Christian, because I've read it all, like from Quran, all of it. And in the, the four is called the noble truths. Buddha literally goes, birth is suffering, aging is suffering, sickness is suffering, the death is suffering. Yeah. That was Buddha, right? Mr. Enlightenment himself, right? Apparently. But this is my point. is it's inevitable. Do you need to magnify it? No.

No. You can choose to, hence chosen and unchosen suffering. You know, if you live in the lap of luxury all the down time, maybe worth you go on the street for a night. You know, I'm not saying,

kick a kid out or something. I'm saying, like, go see what it's like to sleep rough a bit. Yeah, because we can, we can probably say true, you know,

what we see in life is that, okay, by trying to get rid of people, suffering, they just suffer in different ways anyway. If you, yeah, 100%. So like, for example, let's say we've given everyone ease of access to social media. Yeah. We're suffering for it probably.

Yeah, exactly. People are suffering through literally having their lives too easy in many different ways. So they're just, yeah. Yeah, you're just suffering from like a huge cognitive deficiencies because your life is what you see on Instagram instead of what your actual life is. You're never grateful, for example. You know, so you know, you got chosen and unchosen suffering. It's going to occur, you know, and you can go all the way to what's a good example,

Nietzsche, you know, the classic. Who has a why to live can be almost anyhow. All right, we need to move on to the next one because that one took far longer than I thought of it. Because you could literally, you could literally just do a whole episode of that. But we'll go to one more, because I think this is a good one as well. And this is Emmanuel Kant versus John Stuart Mill in the debate on, is lying ever morally justified? So my question to you, is lying always wrong or can lying sometimes be morally justified?

Is lying wrong or can it be morally justified? Is lying always wrong or can lying sometimes be morally justified? do you have an example okay so let's say your position is lying is always wrong which I think you would lean more to lying is always wrong then it can sometimes be morally justified

but obviously I understand the nuance in it as well so like true is a moral duty I would presume someone who you know is a Christian would believe that you know try not to lie but then if you wanted to give pushback on that you could

say, okay, is brutal honesty always moral? You know, if your friend asks you how they look. I think it's nuanced. I agree. Yeah. So do I think lying is an essay? And if you're looking at Kant, like, if you're looking at Kant, lying is a no-no. Because Kant's categorical imperative implies truthfulness as a universal duty, bro.

Yeah. It's a duty for you. Well, there's a great pushback on him as well. So let's say there's a murderer at the door. Like, and, you know, he asks, is someone hiding in your house and, you know, where are they? Like, do you tell the truth in that instance? No, because you hit what you call a moral axiom.

Yeah. You know, which is, do the means justify the ends? Now, that doesn't mean lie to your mistress and say she doesn't look fat. if she's out of shame, you know, but when it comes to if I lie, does this life get saved? Okay, like fair enough, bro. You know, but even if you push a cunt, right, he will still kind of prelude to that. If you lie, the maximum of lying for cun, right, it means it can't be willed into universal, into like universal law without contradiction do you know what i mean so if it's going to have

contradiction it will cause a breakdown in communication which means breakdown in relationships you know and in the khan it's imperative that moral consistency is there respect for persons is there and clear strong duty is there yeah if you had to break it all yeah with regard to this if you broke it all down yes um what do you think I understand that, but do you think intention matters? Like, should intention matter? So, like, if I lie purely to protect someone, is that morally equal to lying for selfish gain?

No. Because one's lying and then, in my opinion, lying full stop is you probably shouldn't do. I know you shouldn't do. You shouldn't do. But, yeah, I don't think you should. But the intention matters. So not all lies. are morally equal.

Of course not, bro. Like, you know, you can lie about, you know, that you enjoyed the meal, or you could lie about the amount of people that died during the Holocaust. Like, you're not equal, you know? Yeah. So, no, all lies are not equal. But I'll take it a step further to the extreme truth side, right? So if we're playing this whole...

Yeah, is lying ever morally justified. So this is how I can say... And this is where it all stems. It all kind of, follow me down this rabbit hogs. I think you'll enjoy it. Yeah. Right. If someone's at the door and they say, I'm coming in to kill your family or whatever,

and you are capable to deal with that, you do not need to lie, right? Pulling in, purpose, meaning, and understanding that, for example, as men, right, we're called to protect, we're called to provide. Which means that if you're going, well, do I have to lie? The answer is you actually don't. if you've actually utilised what it means to be a good, capable, strong, man, defend your family.

You know what I mean? Or talk the guy down, right? Like, for me, the idea is cultured barbarian. Like, that's the important part. So I think at the end of the day, the truth, although it seems messy at the beginning, always leads you to the perfect spot. Yeah.

There was a great example there. Someone had online. They were talking about their relationship with their wife and he was like if my wife came up to me and told me, asked me what I think of her in distress and I would never lie to her and if I said she doesn't look good, I would tell her she doesn't look good. And the reason that I tell her that she doesn't look good is that, you know, when she's 80 years old and she's wrinkly and she asks me, do I look beautiful? And I say yes, she'll know that I'm telling the true in that moment.

Yeah, I think that was actually something I used to say to girls. I would say, I'd say, like, I'll go up to a girl and I'd say, do girls train guys to lie? This is the best question ever because they'll go, what? No. And I'd be like, okay. So let's see you're my girlfriend. And you spent a thousand bucks on this beautiful dress. You invited to go to a black tie function.

And you come downstairs and you're like, oh, babe, you know, I'm so glad I got this dress. I love it. How do I look? You want me to be like, baby, you look beautiful. But that's me lying to you. They were like, well, yeah, I want you to say I look beautiful. And you're like, okay, training the guy to lie. But in my opinion, again, truth sets you free.

You should still be able to be honest. And that may be a brutal truth, but that's where the nuance of communication, which Kant actually highlights quite a lot. The nuance of communication, because I think with Khan, like, I don't know him as a person. I've already read his shit. But I think it's a person, I think he could justify the lie of someone at the door. Yeah.

And also I have another good one that you could probably justify. So if lying is always a moral, right? Can governments ever be justified in, you know, secrecy or during war? So let's say they're doing something that they need to lie about in order to win a war against, you know, Nazis or whatever it is. I mean, usually people will allow that exception. Yeah, they would. Because it is a government lying, you know, and we've seen that before. But then again, it's for the protection of its citizens.

So it's kind of hard to be very... It's tricky, but like, it's, you've got to take into account the mob mentality of human beings. We're tribal creatures. If one person screams, 10 others are going to start ripping it. Yeah. So, like, if we're like, hey, we're conducting a covert operation

to Venezuela to displace a dictator because of X, Y, and Z like, it's just going to scatter everything. But then we can, then if we wanted to go on the push side of the other side of it, like, right?

So sometimes lying protects people from unnecessary harm. You agree? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But if lying is loud sometimes, what stops people from abuse is not real. Morality.

Because a lie is a step too far anyway. Yeah. And if, and then that's the point. So it's like, so if we start here, right, on the left side, and I'm not about politics, I'm using my hands as an analogy, right? And then you've got the

right side. There's a line that you cross. Where is that line? Because does morality the moment you lie? The moment you lie. The moment you lie. That's the moral crossing line. I shouldn't have lied and I lied. Right?

Boom. Okay. You've now crossed that moral line. So how deep you choose to go. But once you've crossed that line, so if we're arguing that sometimes lying protects people from unnecessary harm. So we're accepting that there is a justification in lying. But then the morality becomes very dangerously subjective because, oh, you know, you can say, for example,

oh well we lied to you about the crime rates in this country from certain ethnic groups like we spoke about last week because we because we were protecting you do you know what I mean we we we want your information on social media and because we're here to protect you from hate speech literally the worst words you can hear from a government is we're here to save you we're here to protect you it's like exactly exactly or it could be something like it could be a it could be a a a controlling boyfriend to the to their girlfriend. It's like, oh, you're staying at home tonight because I'm protecting you, you know?

Exactly. Yeah, that which is controlling because instead the person should actually have a conversation about what's gonna perpetuate, what's gonna happen and putting violence to places having a conversation. That's not controlling, that's protected, right? Controlling is, hey, sit, stay.

So then we have to ask question, can trust, survive with flexible honesty? Nope. Yeah. So like if you want more honest, like it's so cut and drive for me, bro, because lying, no, you should not do it. Is it morally justified? I'm not saying it's morally justified. I'm saying you can morally, you can justify it, but not morally.

You can't, right? Because you shouldn't lie. And that means what it means. So someone's at the door. I'm supposed to tell them that my family's into his sleep. Ben? Yeah, and you're supposed to fuck them up too if they're trying to come in there, bro. Like, yeah, that's the truth. Right, but this is a thing. So you're right, as soon as you crushed that one boundary, which is I've lied, how deep can you go? Easy. Go read ordinary men.

Go read crime and punishment. See what happens when you go further down the rabbit hole. Yeah. See what happens when you lie again. And again, but then, we can flip that again. And just an example that came to my head. Okay. You're standing at the, you're standing at the edge of a little child's bed, right? They have cancer and they're about to die. And they turn to you and you're an atheist and this little three-year-old kid who's about to die says does heaven exist

because I'm scared, I'm scared, I'm about to go. If you have the stance that you should never lie, do you turn around to that kid and say, I don't believe in heaven? Or do you say, yes, God exists. I believe in heaven. Well, you're an atheist to tell the truth.

But I can break this out, I can rip this one apart if you want. Go ahead. Okay. You're an atheist, right? Cool. So then when that child turns to you, speak your truth. Say, nope, you're just going to turn to dust. See what happens because there is a God.

But that atheist, whether that, but that atheist is going to probably look at that child and whether they believe in God or not, you know, they're not, they are probably going to say to themselves, you know, what, I can lie in this, I can lie in this instance because why, why, would I tell the truth in order to hurt this little child's? You're not telling the truth in order to hurt your little child, that little child, but you're telling the truth because it's the right thing to do. And if we look at truth, it's admirable when it's not always pleasant me.

And I'm not saying it's admirable for an atheist to tell this kid he's going to turn to dust and ask. Yeah. I'm going to say this, which is, if you're an atheist, you're really living a lie. So, like, cool. And then you're going to say, well, you know, morally this kid. kid and I'm like, okay, morally this kid, okay, cool, where are you getting your morals from? Hmm. Oh, how was raised?

How were you raised? I was raised in the Judeo-Christian society. So you've got Christian morals. So I would imagine that atheist is going to say that, well, you know, I can lie in this. Exactly. They can justify that. But it doesn't make it right. And they will experience the consequences.

of exactly that. So, yeah. Can good intentions like, you know, trying to put this little this little girl at ease as she's about to go to sleep? Can good intentions justify lies?

If your intention is pure, then you shouldn't need to lie. In this example, is their intention not pure? And that's why they're lying. If I was the atheist, right? Which I'm not. Jesus is king. but you'll never you'll never have to be put in that situation because you can look that little girl in the eye and say yes you're going to go to heaven yeah but i'll put myself

in an atheist situation okay if you want right yeah which is i'll lean in and i'll go i'm not too sure what's going to happen when you die but what i can tell you is i'm going to be here with you and we're going to face whatever you've got to face together that's the truth that's the truth so no you don't I don't have to lie. If I was an atheist, that's what I'll say. You can tell your own true in a way that... By the same token, to rewind it back,

while I'm trying to be morally right as an atheist, where am I getting those from? No, I know what you're saying. Yeah, dude, so like, this is a thing, is if you're an atheist, I'm not bashing you, but I'm just telling you to wake up. Here's a question for your last question, then, and we'll wrap this up, but these are very...

I've really enjoyed this, by the way. These are really interesting. deep my brain is going into overdrive just asking these questions yeah i can't sleep after these i'm just so is a lie is a lie a moral because it's false or because of harms because it's false and harms is both yeah a lie is is it necessarily you've got to look at it again a lie is the absence of truth right truth is so when you talk about for example the full armor of God, you have the sword of truth, right? Not the shield, not the helmet, bro. No, it's the belt of truth. Yeah, belt of truth, sword of righteousness, I think. Or breast, predile righteousness. I'm not too

sure. But point being is, it's wrong to lie because you're not telling the truth. And the truth is like, and you guys have all heard these quotes. People listeners would have heard this quote. The truth sets you free. Right. Like, if you're more truthful with yourself, you'll let go of a lot of shit. You know, like, you know, like, for example,

if you're a bit of an asshole, like I can be a bit of an asshole sometimes. And like, I'm just honest with something. Like, yeah, you know, sometimes a bit of an asshole.

You know, and sometimes I'm like, oh, maybe I'm being too kind. Mm-hmm. Or maybe I'm allowing myself to be deceived, whatever. But the more truthful you are with yourself,

the more beautiful of the adventure that is life. Like just straight up. Honestly, it's, the truth will lead you on adventures. You never knew you wanted to go on and will never forget. whereas lies will lead you somewhere that you shouldn't be or that you're incapable of being

and then you're going to have to try defend that but you're cast it bolts on sand and you're going to have to lie again and again and again and again until eventually you don't even know who the fuck you are anymore and you've ripped yourself to fritz well that was a very good episode and that is the truth that is the truth that was a sick episode Brian, appreciate you. As always, I'll see you same time next week and we will have another juicy topics go through. I love it, bro. Love you, man. See you.