The Uneducated PT Podcast - Ep 173 Ellen Johnston PT — Injury, Body Image & Fuelling Female Athletes

Episode Date: August 13, 2026

What does it really take to recover from a serious injury—not just physically, but mentally?In this episode, we sit down with Ellen Johnston, personal trainer and strength & conditioning coach, to discuss her journey through the fitness industry, women's football and the lessons she's learned from working with female athletes.Ellen opens up about her own ACL injury and rehabilitation, the psychological challenge of returning to sport, and how that experience completely changed her relationship with food, body image and performance. We also discuss why so many active women unknowingly under-fuel, the importance of strength training, and why chasing performance leads to better long-term results than chasing aesthetics.We also explore social media, external validation, before-and-after photos, coaching female footballers, and how Ellen's experience with dyspraxia has shaped both her confidence and the coach she has become.Whether you're an athlete, coach, footballer or simply someone trying to build a healthier relationship with training and nutrition, this conversation is packed with honest insights and practical advice.In this episode we cover:Ellen's journey into the fitness industryGrowing up in DonegalWomen's football and strength & conditioningWhy female athletes need to get strongerFuelling performance vs dietingCommon nutrition mistakes active women makeACL injury recovery and rehabilitationThe psychological impact of long-term injuryBody image in sportSocial media and external validationWhy Ellen doesn't use before-and-after photosConfidence, self-worth and coachingAdvice for young female athletesIf you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a comment letting us know your biggest takeaway.#HybridTraining #EllenJohnston #WomensFootball #ACLRecovery #FemaleAthletes #StrengthAndConditioning #Nutrition #BodyImage #PersonalTrainer #SportsPerformance #GirlsInSport #FitnessPodcast #SportsPodcast #IrishPodcast

I was just going to say, Rob, your hair, your haircuts looking lovely. Before we get Ellen to introduce herself, we'll just have a little bit of an update. Rob, what's going on in your life? I am officially leaving Somerset in two weeks, two and a bit weeks, and I'll be back in the Northeast. I've just agreed to a place to live the last couple of days. So I'm starting to relax a little bit more and stress more about the job instead of my living situation. where did you decide to what where did you decide to move to so instead of newcastle because it would have been like an hour it's basically similar to you working in dublin and commute into bray

for work so i decided just to live in bray a place called eaglescliff so i'm going to be staying there near work and i can just go at the big city every now and then i think i'll be better and there's a lovely little functional fitness gym around the corner and I've just recently got into Pilates and you can take the piss out of me for that in a minute. I love platas. Yeah, Pilates is fine. It's the functional fitness part I don't like. Oh really? I was expecting the other way around. There's a lot of things that I could take the piss out of you about, but it's not going to be Pilates. Oh, good. I've only just tried it this week. I've done like, well, no, last week as well, I've done two sessions and it's pretty brutal sometimes. All right. And Jer, I've seen you deadlifted

the other day. What was what was on the bar there? I need to know from my own ego. We're in competition. 162 and a half. It's the beltless goal is what we're trying to hit at the moment. I want to get that as high as I can.

Fucking scumbag. Yeah, fuck. Yeah, we're back. All right, Elle, before we get into the good stuff, I want you to give me I want you to give me your make your case for why Duny Gawley is the greatest county in Ireland.

Oh. We have the best accent and it's a really pretty county and the people are pretty sound. Yeah, all right, I'll agree with the second two statements. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'll give you, I'll give you your,

I'll give you your case as well. Best place to surf probably as well. Yeah, Bundorn. Bundyern and Ross now is pretty good. Yeah. And you just have, you have a very, very nice pubs as well, very nice traditional. There's the Harbour Bar up in Dunnigall.

Lads, remember we went up to Dunnigall? We didn't go Hababa, though. I didn't go. I didn't go. It was close. I thought that with Jerr. I think there's a lot of cool little towns in Duny Gall. And then you have the coast and then you also have nice hiking spots as well.

Yeah, but like we also have like two places that are named really bizarre names. Like we have muff and then Glenn Spilly. Yeah. Duny Gaul's kind of like its own little. country in Ireland, I think. No, literally the Irish government for the time we don't exist and then the UK didn't want us.

So, you know, we're just too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're kind of your own, use your own little, little place in, in, no man's hands. That's just why we're the goat. Yeah.

Right, well, we might as well get into it. So, from Duny Gall, not living in Duny Gall. No, I'm living in Liverpool. Yeah. Tell the listeners a little bit about what you're doing at the moment in terms of work, where you're at in terms of life and all that stuff.

Oh, Jesus Christ, what am I not doing for work? So predominantly work as an online female health and strength coach, as Carl said, from Doney Gull, living in Liverpool. Literally just graduated from my undergrad degree three weeks ago in Sport and Exercise Science. Congratulations. All right. First class degree, very happy. So hey. Starting a master's in Strength and conditioning in like four weeks.

So that should be interesting. Also working as a strengthening coach for a women's first team, third year, three. so division below WSL2 and also in a biomechanics research assistant role PT in person and also in social media work for a gym Do you consider yourself a PT, a strength and condition coach, an online coach, what would you consider yourself? I just go health and strength coach because I'm like

there's too many different names floating around but then it's like when you're in different environments it's like different hats so like when you're out on the pitch you're like okay forced development and how they can generate power whereas like a general population female isn't really going to be like I don't care about my people power

yeah yeah do you find that you lean towards enjoying one more than the other or do you like having to kind of mix about I quite like having the mix of both like the essence of the side of things is relatively new to me so I'm like a month into it

yeah it's definitely a whole learning curve but it's something I've enjoyed particularly as fair enough female sports has come on a long way but it's still quite disadvantaged in terms of the support that we get. So to be able to contribute positively to that is something that I quite enjoy and I'm quite proud of. Yeah, what have you learned since, since working there for the last month?

Because obviously you have a sporting background as well. So I'm sure that you've kind of put yourself into position of the athletes when you're kind of talking to them about training and that. Yeah. And like, athletes don't really care about the science behind it. Like, they just kind of want to know what they have to do predominantly, like how many sprints you're going to make them do. Yeah. But like making it engaging. but something that I think has already started to me in the past month is like they don't really care how much you know like there's no point knowing every single citation there is to know

if you can't relate to them or like you can't adapt to like the session that's needed so for me it's like being adaptable and also being relatable to the athlete and just meeting them where they're at because the level that we're playing at there's such an array of athletes if you have 18 year olds and then it's like 37 year olds it's quite an array so like the demands of the 18 year old is probably different to that of a 37 year old yeah I suppose how you communicate

them is going to have to be different as well probably yeah or either of those age categories more demanding than the other or are they just more demanding in different ways like the 18 to the 37 I think the 18 year old like she like that kind of age bracket

because they're pretty young and they want to like excel in the sport they're like right okay they're hungry kind of get in to learn to listen whereas the older players are kind of like, okay, I've been here longer like I know what I'm at and they're kind of just telling them to do anything and they'll do it.

Yeah. That's pretty cool. Is there anything that you since starting because obviously you have all this kind of background and experience and knowledge in training, in nutrition, in strength training. Is there anything that you see in terms of

obviously they're high performing athletes, but what they might not understand about their training or about nutrition that let's say an athlete is listening to this now and they're trying to get some like nuggets out of, you know, how to improve their performance. Is there anything that you see that young women

athletes are still making any mistakes that they're still making? I think the fuel inside of things is a massive part of it. Like they're afraid that, you know, if they'll eat too much or like, if you know, they have carbs, you don't gain weight or if you have them in the gym, they're like, oh, I can't go too heavy. Like, I'll have a conversation. with a girl allergic

during the week she's injured at the minute and she's like oh just cut all my carbs out and I'm like I'm like no no I'm like we don't do that but because I'm like

when you're injured you need fuel to rebuild like it's not the time to start slashing things out so I think obviously you don't have that education and predominantly with females it's always been

you need to be smaller like take up less space so it's trying to challenge that narrative with them but then also things like female health like it's kind of like I don't feel great today

and previous S&C's never asked, predominantly because a lot of them were male, but ask question, like, where are you in your cycle? And they're like, oh, like, yeah, I'm actually doing like three days and like, bright, well, okay, that's probably why you don't feel as sharp this evening. But actually getting the tune in to that is quite a big thing they didn't consider it either. Yeah, I think coaches, I think a lot of coaches make the mistake of thinking because they're athletes and because they're involved in sport

and because they're so heavily involved in training, they assume, like, because you know, you know when you're doing something for a while, what, what's, you make the mistake of, it's obvious to you, so you think it's obvious to everyone else, and you just assume that they still understand these things, like they need care up for energy,

for performance or, or whatever it is. Yeah, definitely is that misconception. Special players who've been in it for a while, you kind of think they should know it. So like previous coaches should have gone over it with them, but they just haven't. But then again, I think that is a challenge in sport, that like you don't have that time with the athletes,

like with quite a fast-paced environment. So it's trying to fit as much as you can within a short period of time. And sometimes that works against you as well. Is there anything, is there any like anything that you notice that working with, let's say, because obviously you're working with general, the gen pop as well, and the types of goals that they have,

has any of them kind of skills crossed over to working with athletes in a more high performance environment? environment. I think for me the communication side is quite a big thing and like how you'd queue different things to different people. Like some people you could be like, okay, you explain a very kind of biomechanics based. Yeah. And that would click for someone, whereas someone else might need like a more visual kind of

cue. You kind of having that understanding and being able to adapt to the person because you could say something they're like, they just look to blankly and you're like, okay, that clearly didn't land the way I intended it to. Yeah. Yeah. And then you flip it and I kind of like, okay. the light bulb goes off and they get it.

So I think that's something that's kind of helped me adapt to it a little bit quicker is that I know what it's like to walk in and maybe have a client who's come in like, I twinge my back at work the other day and like, right, okay, let's adapt the session. Similar to a player was playing on Sunday and they've picked up an ankle spring. Okay, how can we adapt it there and then? As opposed to having a panic attack and being like, shit,

I don't know what I'm at here. Have you noticed, because obviously when you're working with, let's say when you're doing your online coach, or you're working with Gen Pop clients, I know a lot of your messaging comes around, you know, focusing on being strong, not skinny and like improving your body image through what your body can do

and focusing on performance. Obviously, these athletes are already focused on performance, but do you find that they still kind of fall into some of them same traps or issues of kind of body image? Yeah, 100% like that fear of being bulky and then, you know, how different Ket looks and everything. It's just, it's the whole whole thing. narrative.

And like this was sometimes speaking about the other week as well. It was like, it was on another podcast as listening to the basically the conversation around what your body looks like in sport tends to arrive before what you're actually achieving. And I think that's something that a lot of those players are hyper aware of, especially now that the whole skinny talk side of things is back

that, okay, maybe we've come on a little bit, but then this is the narrative they're being fed again and it's trying to basically get them step away from it. I just think of social media being quite influential on that that's yeah but what how do you find it with the other coaches are they a little bit more educated on body image and are they a bit more sensitive to it or are they still can is there still kind of that bit of toxicity in the coaching attitude like there has been different conversations where like you know there's some comments made like this players gained way or that players

bit bulkier than they were and i'm kind of like shit and i'm kind of sitting there like mm-hmm mm-hmm i'm like i'm not open my mouth but how are they performing? Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. Like, if someone's a little bit of weight, fine.

Like, if that means maybe they're more resilient on the pitch, where like if someone would have tackled them before when they were lighter weight and that would have taken them out, but now they're better

to withstand that. That's a net positive, but it's only being taken at face value, like, okay, she looks a little bulkier and there's no consideration given to the other part of it. Jer, wasn't it,

you and me who were having that conversation about athletes and body image, where you kind of, a lot of athletes felt comfortable in their body image when they're on the pitch because of how they're performing and they feel most confident, but then off the pitch then they struggle with them kind of insecurity. It's their safe space. Like I saw quite a lot when I was coaching ladies rugby.

Like you'd see these girls there were absolute fucking animals on the field and then come off the field and then it was the body image stuff. You were getting ready for like a night out and they weren't having. happy with the dress and stuff. And I was just like, I've just watched you mall someone to death outside and the field with a big smile on your face. So it's like, so it is a thing. Like, it is a big thing.

And like, obviously not just female athletes, like, uh, everyone. You get that safe space where you feel confident in your body. And that's, it comes down to the performance side. Like, if you're not performing well on the field, you'll still, you'll feel shit about your body then as well out there. Yeah. So, um, I, why, I think that. what you're doing, working, how do you find being able to hold your tongue with coaches

when they're talking about athlete's body, whether they've gained weight or lost weight, and you're trying to focus on performance? How do you find actually sitting there dealing with it? Um, count of ten, I basically be like, not lose my head. Because, like, I'm someone who, like, I know my own mind, like, I know what I want to say, but it's like, like, like in that environment, saying in a way that isn't confrontational and like actually gets them to actually think, okay, maybe she has a point to you and it's not just about the kilos and the scale, but actually what that person can do and how they can feel. And I was just kind of saying like, yeah, but we haven't even started the season. Like, you don't know if that's going to have an impact. I was like, so it's not a conversation I would have with the player because I think as well, like, the player is probably. probably wear with themselves if they have put weight on and then if you then flag it to them they're like right okay no carbs for the next like

six months and then all of a sudden yeah fair enough she's lost the weight but she can't perform because the fuel isn't there so I would kind of always ask a question be like okay but if the weight wasn't a factor if you couldn't see what she looked like and she was still performing really well would that matter and they're like well no not really and I'm like well

that's the point. Surely everyone puts on a bit of weight in off-season anyway because you're less active, aren't you? And if your diet is relatively similar to... And if you're way in holiday and, you know, it does a few drinks hard or something. Unless you're that lunatic that trains during, like, this off-season

like a machine and like doesn't drink, doesn't go on holidays, doesn't do any of that, you get the odd few on a team that always come back and you're like, what the fuck have you been doing for the last couple of months? Yeah, but isn't there that, like, it's that conversation, it's like, I presume, like, as a strength and conditioning coach, you're not going to have, like, universal advice for everyone on the team. It's like some people will, will go off,

and it's like, they probably need to bulk up a little bit during their offseason because they need to get stronger, and so they're stronger on the ball. You know, someone might need to, you know, lose a couple of pounds, so they're lighter on their feet, and so they're faster, and someone might need to maintain their weight and just, they, they're physically fit, but they probably skills need to improve. Like, so I suppose it's when you talk about Ellen, about that communication, it's,

it's probably having that communication with an athlete. And obviously saying it in a way that's not judgmental. And then, like you said, they probably know themselves that they probably need to bulk up or they probably need to be lighter on their feet. And if, if that decision comes from them and like you can create that conversation

in a non-judgmental, this is how we're going to improve scenario. and obviously then the approach is correct that they're not over-restricting or starving themselves or you know, they're just, they're doing what they need to do sensibly.

I suppose that's the line that you need to tread, is it? Yeah, it's just treading it carefully and then obviously being aware of like how different people feel about different things

like whether it be their body and their food because again, like every athlete's going to have different experience with that side of thing and you can't just presume yeah,

they're an athlete, like they'll be so fine when you only see them like maybe a couple hours like you don't know what goes on in the remainder of the day. Yeah, they're not robots. You need, like, you have to talk to each person and kind of, yeah, it's just, it's just personal skills, isn't it?

Yeah. I think you've probably got, I assume, sorry, you've probably got a really time that conversation well as well, because psychology is a big part of sport, as we all know. And if you approach someone and say, oh, I think you might have got on a bit of weight, like that might affect your performance, automatically, that's going to, to affect your kind of self-esteem or make you question how you're going to perform. And then your performance is, unless you're insanely resilient, it's likely to drop anyway. And then the person that said it's going to go, that's the weight.

Whereas actually it was the conversation, potentially the conversation. I imagine that's really difficult to, you've got to see them perform first, surely, before you go. I think that might be because of your weight. Yeah. because it's impossible to know like some people will perform better at a higher body weight

whereas some people find that detrimental but again like you can't just be like okay higher body weight per performance because you need to see that athlete and how they actually utilise that there's a great one there's a great photo with Max Leif

and one of there's a prop from a redhead prop from the South African team and it's a photo of the two of them beside each other and it's the argument for performance for aesthetic and Max even says it himself he's like, we all know we're talking

he shredded like doesn't look like your standard front row prop you'd ever seen in rugby and he just says well one of us has won a World Cup yeah the huge difference there

one plays international one or World Cup the other one plays club rugby yeah yeah I suppose when you're like what Rob's touched on there I suppose it's better

if the athlete is actually coming to you and asking, let's say in offseason, like, what can I do to improve for next season? Rather than you just being the coach and just going out of your way and being like, actually, this is what you need to do and almost putting that pressure on them or that judgmental kind of take on them without them even asking your, it's like, it's like any person or coach, it's like you don't just go up and, and, you know, project what someone should do or body shames. Well, that means coaching has changed over the years

because my experience of rugby is a couple of lads get picked out. It's like, you fat bastard, you need to go running on our off season. Or you come back and you literally have like six day lads dragged to the side of the field while there's skills going on. It's like you don't need skill work.

We're going to just run you. We're going to run that weight off you for the next 20 minutes. But that's been coaches throughout history. Like I remember even talking about a good couple of like, let's say Irish dancers or girls who did dance when they were younger and it was always

even when they're like 14 and 13 and really impressionable and coaches like male coaches and women coaches tell them that they need to be skinnier they need to lose weight and then a host of kind of disorderly and behaviours and body image issues that came off the back of that.

Like I think we're also healthier now as well like when when I was in bigger setups getting coached you weren't you were told what to do. You weren't taught what to do. So, like, I remember doing tracking and a coach would look through your, you literally had a fucking notebook going through stuff. And he just shouted you for what you were eating and was like, well, I'm eating it because it tastes nice and I need to eat something. But can you

tell me why I shouldn't be eating this? Yeah. Rather than just berating me in front of people. Ellen, so for any, let's say, female athletes that are listening to this and want to improve their performance on the pitch. What does like a well-functioned and strong female athlete look like? What are they doing right in order to achieve that?

So for me the main thing is like a lot of people just think it's about what goes on on the pitch or what goes on in the gym but a lot of it is outside of that like are you feeling before your sessions are you then, you know, recovering then after getting your carbohydrates in,

getting your protein in, hydrating, actually resting. and not just, you know, taking the day off the gym, like actually getting your sleep, managing your stress, monitoring how the body's feeling. And also, if you're feeling a little bit of a niggler and injury, like flagging that instead of being, I'll just push through it until it becomes a bigger issue. Like, no, like address the issue before it becomes something more long term. Yeah.

And also being open to feedback. Like if someone has a feedback on maybe, you know, your sprint ability. or, you know, your technique, taking that on board, applying it, and then seeing how it goes. But also, like, just showing up and communicating with the coaches, I think, is a big thing. Because you can tell who wants to succeed,

like, they'll ask, what can I be doing better, or they'll engage in the sessions. Whereas, to be far, some people, it is a social thing. And, you know, kind of social health, like, people come to train in, to enjoy themselves, but a lot of athletes will have that balance of, okay, shits and giggles in the warm up and then

they'll get stuck into it. But it's just, yeah, understanding your output on the pitch is correlated to your inputs off the pitch, like everything else that goes into it where some people will just rock up, hope for the best and see what happens.

The first one you touched on was nutrition. Like, if someone's listened to this, what are the signs that someone might be under fueling? fatigue's a big one like if you're rocking up to training and you're starting off and you're like I actually feel really tired

even though maybe you haven't trained like a day or two that's a big red flag and then if you feel like after your sessions you're sore than usual you're not recovering as well

like say some people might have doms for one day has those doms now suddenly become two days when the training load or the training session hasn't really changed that much that's a big thing

and then obviously the big conversation in female sports is your mental cycle. Like if you don't have a cycle, typically that means you're under-fueled, maybe overtraining and finding that balance between the two. Yeah. That's probably very prevalent in athlete sports as well, people,

because it's high-intense training. And not that just high-intense training alone means that you're going to lose your period, but if that's complemented with stress under-recovering, not consuming enough, calories. I mean, that's obviously going to be a recipe for losing your period probably. Yeah, 100%.

What, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what conversation could you have with someone if they end up in that kind of situation? I suppose ask them like, I suppose getting them to actually assess the situation themselves, like how are they feeling? Because I think when they actually verbalise it, they think, oh shit, okay, like things aren't, you know, all sunshine and rainbows here, like there is something a little bit off. Yeah. And then kind of assessing like, what, they're doing like in terms of nutrition and just making sure that they know it's not a

judgmental conversation you want them to feel supported you want the best for them so assessing their stress whether it be work stress life stress family stress training in of itself is a stress so wherever they need to pull back a little bit on that yeah and you know making sure that you know it's not like a them issue or that you're doing anything wrong it's like okay what can we do better to make sure that you know they think that they know it's not like a them issue or that you're doing anything wrong it's like okay what can we do better to make sure that you can function at your best? Because, you know, you'll always hear, like, athletes, like, it's a conversation that we'll always have, like, you know,

it is inconvenient, but if you have a regular cycle, your body's happy and it's healthy, and that is the most important thing. Well, I'd imagine a lot of young girls, like, again, we assume that what's obvious to us is obvious to everyone, but I'd imagine a lot of young athletes don't even recognize that, oh, this is actually a really bad sign if you've lost your period.

Yeah, and like, I know from my experience when I was playing Gaelic football, like I was coming back for my crew shit, I ran myself into the ground. Like, I lost my cycle, but I was like, I'm not that bored about having kids. I was like, it doesn't matter if you don't have a period.

But you aren't educated on the fact that it's not just about your fertility. It's everything else that goes alongside it. Yeah. And I will fall into then also if we're speaking about, let's say, young female athletes who all, also are suffering from, let's say, body image issues and they're trying to like be restrictive and going all these diets and also trying to run their

themselves into the ground with their training. And then that, you know, ends up with them losing their period and them also ignoring that. Like all of them things are, you know, almost connected as well. Yeah. It's not ideal. Not ideal. But you, you, I remember reading, you kind of went through that, that kind of cycle yourself, didn't you? When you had an injury and then. you were talking about how you went through a lot of different restrictive diets as well and obviously came out to the end from that. Yeah, like, I'm a lot recovering from an knee surgeon number four.

Yeah. So it's been a whole process, but like, I think a lot for me was basically when you're injured, it feels like it's out of your control. Like, you can't control the rate of recovery, you can't change the prognosis, but you can control your body, you can control

your nutrition. And I, I had no, like I was 14 when I don't know a ACL. Like I, at that point, I was the youngest person or not to have done it. Potentially may have changed in the past eight years. Hopefully not. Hopefully not. But I had no clue about nutrition because we aren't taught that kind of stuff in school.

So I was like, okay, train more, eat less because obviously the conversation with consultants is if you're lighter, you know, it reduced your knee pain. So I basically took that and ran with it. And I was eating 12 bunch of calories a day, training seven days a week felt like shit looked probably like I was dying

but I was lighter so I was like you know we're so fine but because you're rehab and you're trying to come back stronger and your behaviours off the pitch are completely counteracting

what you're trying to do I probably would have got re-injured at some point anyway because of the way my knee structured and everything but I didn't have that foundation behind me for when a tackle come in I couldn't stand against it

which is when you see me now like it's completely different but I just went down like a ton of bricks and I was like I think McCrish it's gone again and at that point I was told I wouldn't play anymore and that then was the conversation that changed my perception

I was like okay like I've probably taken my body bit of granted here and said like what can I do with my current limits how can I take better care of it and then also that's what led me to getting qualified was to kind of start that conversation because we aren't taught

that kind of thing and then we wonder otherwise when people end up in that spiral. Yeah, I'd say that's mentally very, very tough to go through that injury and then go through it again and then go through it again and again. Yeah, and again and again. Like, do you have any advice for any, like, athletes who, you know, because obviously that if you have any injury, it's very common that it happens again, isn't it? Yeah, I think, I forget now what the start is, but in whatever the re-injury risk is in

males it then increases in with female athletes. So for me, I remember I went back. Like physically, I was probably ready to go back. But psychologically, there's always not wearing the back of your head. Like, if I jump, this is going to go again. Yes. So like, I read the ball go over my head and my coach is like, why do you not jump? And I'm like, I don't know, I just froze.

But then it's kind of understanding like, okay, this is why I froze in a little bit. but the conversations when you have around like oh like how's the knee feeling or like how's the shoulder feeling whatever the injury is but it's never like oh like actually how are you feeling about it like do you think you're ready to perform yeah i suppose there's a there's a lack of confidence after something like that happens yeah whereas like now i think because i've been a through so it's for many times you'd think it'd be the opposite that like it'd be more wary of it but you kind of know your limits that little bit better some people may argue differently

considering this is a fourth operation but anyway that like it's kind of like okay like if I don't try it I'm not going to know but I also know what I physically cannot do and accepting that and moving on from it and focusing on what you can is it

is there anything that like helped outside of obviously because you can't train then and then it's just you and your thoughts and like is there anything outside I suppose then going through the education of it and the education of nutrition and becoming a coach probably helped you coincide with rehabbing your injury as well

yeah it did help a lot but then like I didn't have that when I was coming back from ACL so it was very much as you say like you and your thoughts yeah so like something I would do is kind of like keep a note and like a little notebook of what exercise I was doing like how it was feeling and focusing like the things I went well that way because probably like the initial stages of injury

you're kind of like okay like you get the range of motion back you get off the crutches you get out of the sling whatever the particular injury may be but then you get to a certain point where progress kind of slows a good bit where it feels like you're doing a lot of work there's nothing off the back of it whereas you can flip back to say week one

and you couldn't lift your leg or like it was taking you freaking 30 minutes to go to the bathroom and you look back and you're like oh actually I have come a long way so being able to reflect back in that of something that kind of helped me in the days where it felt like, you know, this wasn't getting any better. Yeah.

But also just acknowledging the fact that it is a shit situation because people, people meanwhile, they say it, they're like, oh, where's a comeback? No, where's a setback? I'm like, yeah, we know that's, that's funny. But it's like, that doesn't help the fact that I do feel like a bag of shit right now. That's Cass. I think I said that to one of my members when they injured themselves. You've 100% said that to multiple people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you 100% has. But you know what I was also thinking when you're saying that?

It's not, it's not just, obviously, the, the training being taken away from you, you know, the injury, all that. But then also, you're quite isolated as well because now you're also away from the team as well. You're doing your own rehab stuff. It's not, it's not the same as when you're actually involved with the team. Yeah, and then you kind of get that, like, for more as well where I'd say it. so I'm not saying like as an amazing player like but sometimes like if the team lost we can like oh like I wonder if I was playing what it would have made a difference like would they've won and then you know as you said like you're not part of that environment like you can try to be like being on the sidelines very different to actually being physically hands on involved on the pitch or knowing that maybe you're going to come on a half time like I know for us we didn't have the facilities at the time but like you could slow up to train and then maybe head off to the gym and do your rehab yeah that was kind of something that came after I couldn't play anymore. But I think as well,

it's like creating opportunities for players who are injured to still be involved. So then, you know, when it is time for them to come back, they don't feel like a stranger. Whereas if you're out of for so long, you step in and you're like, right, okay,

I feel like I don't know anyone here because I've been gone. You also add in the other side of being on that sideline with your crutches are in your sling, you're watching it. So even though it's great to be involved with the team in that way, you're also sitting there on the sideline watching on,

which is also tough. Because you can't, like you can't speed up your recovery. So you're watching everyone play away and that's all you want to be doing. Yeah, it is second in luck. And that was something, when I was totally come play anymore,

that was January 2020. And obviously we all know the big C hit in 2020. So I had like, two months where the girls were in preseason and you'd get the message being like, training this evening, you're like, off for fact sick. But then,

because nobody was playing football then for a period of time it was kind of like, right, okay, I can actually just focus on my recovery without being so concerned by the fact, oh, I just wish I could play. But something I did notice was that you'd hear people being like, oh, I'll have to go training tonight, or like, I can't be asked to go to training tonight

and you're sitting there like, what I would give to go out on that pitch and boot the ball is ridiculous, and you're taken for granted. But then, looking back, I know full well that I was that person as well, when, like, you're in school, it's 4 o'clock.

It's pissing rain outside. You're like, I have to go to French you this evening. But like, it's not until you're away from that. You're like, shit, I really did just take something really good for granted. Yeah, I suppose not that you wanted to have all them injuries, but it definitely probably helps in terms of becoming a better coach and being more empathetic to understanding your players when they are going through injuries. Yeah, 100%.

Like, in terms of the essence, side of things, like, I can relate to that. Like, because even we have a player at the minute injured and she was asking me, like, you know, how'd you get into weightlifting and stuff? And I was like, well, actually, that was my pivot point. Yeah. From when I get injured, that's how I transitioned. And she was like, all right, okay, like, you didn't really stop. And I was like, I did stop for a while, but it's being able to work around it.

And she's not at the point where like, okay, like, I want to get into the gym. I wanted you off of body work to work around it. Because obviously, I'm not going to make her power lift out of her lack, but, you know, it's showing her that, like, okay, it is shit, but you can still do bits and pieces. Yeah, well, I suppose you need that. out, don't you? You need to be able to kind of put your energy and effort into, if you can't do some certain thing, whether it's, you can't be on the pitch or you can't move in a certain way,

you have to be able to put your energy into something else because you still have that competitiveness in you. Yeah. And like, we're still training as well in some form of capacity. It'll only help the recovery because, you know, that whole thing. If you don't use it, if you don't use it, you lose it. What was some of your staple exercises going through your rehab? It was bench, wasn't it?

Yeah, Bench. We all know how that went down in June. Yeah. That wasn't actually shit, so, oh my God. What in terms of strengthen the knee, let's say, if someone was listening to this? So obviously for a lot of people, it just depends on the injury. Like, for me, a lot of in the initial stages was

like straight leg races, trying to get the leg, like, fully straight. And then for my knee, like, it just, it hits leg extensions. it just has an obviously shit attack at the top of them. Yeah. So, like, for me, it was, like, doing isometrics and, like, mess around with different bits and pieces. Because, like, fair enough, like, a physio can be like, okay, we'll try this.

But they're basically pulling from a set of guidelines that are just generic. Yeah. They're designed for a generic injury. And, like, we know everyone's structured differently. So, like, being willing to, like, experiment with different bits and pieces. And, like, if you get the right physio, they'll help you kind of explore that.

So for me, the thing that we found that helped a lot was, isometric exercises for hamstrings, calves, bods, that kind of side of things. And then, yeah, all the boring basics, like squats, single leg squats to a box, leg press, but then there be weeks where you're like, right, okay, I'm shit hot here, like, I'm going really good.

And then there's weeks, you know what, this is actually really bad. But it's like, understand that like double weeks where things are moving and weeks free to pull things back. And that's completely fine. It's part of the process. Do you have any advice for anyone, let's say an athlete who is kind of caught in the trap where they're over training, they're like training seven days a week. Obviously they know they're feeling fatigued. Their performance is reducing.

You know, they're afraid to increase their food. They kind of have the self-awareness that they're in that cycle, but they still find themselves in that trap. Something I always ask people as like, how do you want to feel? Like physically, mentally, on the pitch, in the gym, wherever it may be. and then basically awesome like do you feel like your actions align with that at the minute and for a lot of them they're like

well no like I'm not recovering I'm like right okay well if we're not recovering what can we do to change that and it's like changing one thing at a time because if you suddenly take someone who's training seven days a week they're not eating carbs they're not sleeping

and you're like right okay we're going to strip training back for five days a week we're going to introduce carbs and we're going to get eight hours sleeping night it's a lot of changes to introduce it once especially if someone's like slightly panicked to thought of that.

So it's like right, okay, what feels least scary if you'd change right now and for them it could be the sleep? I'm like right, okay, let's change the sleep first and then hopefully then that helps a little bit. I'm like right, okay, that's helped a little bit. If we change this other thing, how will that impact it? So getting them to kind of make the decision themselves because we know if you tell someone to do it,

they're less likely to do it, whereas if it's a decision they make themselves, than more likely you do consistently. Yeah, it's a difficult one. I think, like, when your brain's telling you you should be there, but your body's telling you to stay at home, you're fighting against two different.

Like, that's why I like the idea of active recovery. It's like I feel like I'm doing something even if it's not strenuous on my body. Yeah, like that's what I do to play is like after game day. Like, we all call like match day plus one. So I could do a lot of mobility stuff, but then there's like three bits of upper body work in there

so they still feel like they're getting a bit of a pump on. but like, you know, you're not adding any extra fatigue to the legs that isn't necessary. Yeah, that makes sense. I like that match day plus one. Is there any nutrition advice that you'd take to the grave? Eat your carbs before training. Like, fuck sick. Yeah.

You had a good post I seen and it was like, and I actually put it into my group then after I thought about it because a lot of them show up to class and like they're drinking a kind of monster or something like that. But I guarantee it they haven't had anything to eat before they show up to training. Yeah. It's like, fair enough, like, caffeine probably feels like, you know, it's going to give you that a little bit of a hit. Yeah. But there's no actual energy in it.

Like, it's not going to be the thing that gets you through that session. Say, like, if you're doing, you know, deadlift, it's not going to be a thing. It's going to help you dig that a little bit deeper. Like, it'll activate your nervous system. Care. As he downs his monster. I do this. I do this for my ADHD.

Thank you very much. Did you have your carbs before this podcast? No. Actually, I had a rice crisp. square so yes so there you go you did yeah

yeah you did I'm not doing but I'm what's what's that what are they called

again knocko are they nice thanks for no carbs company oh boom get them off

I'm pretty sure in the Ben Elle will you just because again like we talked about things

that might be obvious to us aren't obvious to everyone could you kind of distinguish between like

what carbs you should have at what time like say you're going like before your training session or maybe a couple of hours before. Like I, some people will assume that carbohydrates are carbohydrates and all carbohydrates are the same. But obviously some will be more beneficial than others at certain times. Yeah. So like obviously we have things like fast adjusting carbohydrates which you kind of want

like I normally go with depending depending on the person like how quick they digest certain things kind of 60 to 30 minutes before their session. So things like Jerry's Rice Krispy Squares bar are like a banana, orange juice, nature valley bar, slightly toast with a bit of honey on it. Things like they're really helpful before training, like a banana in the morning is always my go-to. Yeah.

But then say for example if someone's like, they're like a 6am trainer and they're like, I physically can't eat that time of the morning. Yes. Have a glass of orange juice instead. Like you're still getting carbs in that way, but it doesn't feel like you're eating anything. Yeah.

Whereas things say like if you're having like a meal, like whether it be oats, pasta, you're kind of wanting to have that a couple hours beforehand. Because if you have that an hour before you go to training, do not go have a digested, got to feel a little bit let'shargic, probably get a stitch, and then it's just shits more so than giggles.

So yeah, definitely don't do that. Try and let's 6am, try to get up at 5am and eat a lot of pasta. Man, I could be smashing Rice Krispy Squarespace at half five in the morning. That'd be great. The orange juice is a great shout because like 6am, who's going to have an appetite at getting up at 5 a.m. to have anything. like even the well except for a chair but i know i couldn't even like entertain the idea of even having a slice of toast at a 5m in the morning i'm getting up i'm half asleep i'm putting my clothes on and i'm going

to the gym so like even you know orange juice and then obviously having carbs the night before um you know that that that sounds ideal to me and the the car the carb loading the day before the half marathon was was intense i actually think i needed to wake up earlier in the morning to get through it because I was eating a bowl of cocoa pops at like 9pm, half 9 at night and I was like, I'm only eating these because they taste good. I was so

full by the end of the day. Here's a question for you and Elle, you might jump in on this as well. Do you think in like that particular context and situation, do you think it would be more important to have the extra hour and better to get up earlier and eat more carbs?

Well, I don't sleep well anyway. So that doesn't fucking help me there. I'll just have, if I can take a nap during the day, I'll take a nap during the day. I think I would rather be well rested

than more fueled. If I've already got a certain amount of fuel. You're good with your sleek. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes the odd time there's a reel or maybe because I'm not getting up at 4 in the morning to chew down on a load of fucking bagels.

of a jam like you. Yeah, well, my, my sleep, my sleep has always been atrocious. Yeah. But like, I would not have, I wouldn't have fueled the way I did before the half for other stuff that I should have. Yeah. How many grams you're trying to get in? What?

How many grams you're trying to get in? Oh. I can't even, it was a lot. It was a lot. Yeah. Now, I had fucking, I had Anna do my nutrition for that. And like, I think it was on, oh, I can't remember. remember I had a stupid amount of food, but like, I had the energy after it.

Like, we're talking there about, like, having your big bowl of oats in the morning before going into a session and your half dead inside there. After my big trough of oats, I wanted to lie down on my kitchen island. And when I was in the car driving to town, I was ready to put my head through a while. But you know, it's funny, do you know what's funny, right? So, like, for my whole life, I played football and it was always a 90-minute match, right? And then I would go and do a half-marital, and I would, like, be real particular. making sure I'm carb loading

and I'm getting the right amount of grams and I'm doing it three days before or two days before or the day before but it would be the exact same time on my feet and I used to just play football and I just used to go out I just have a bowl of cocoa pops and I'd go out and play and I'm absolutely fine.

I think the adrenaline though with playing football versus running a half marathon like I just wanted to shoot myself in the face for the entire thing so the food made it the wine gums and rice crispy squares on the way around made it

made it a lot fucking better yeah but that's what i mean then even before match like we would just have all jellies in the in the changing room and you know same some oranges or whatever yeah some cakes and harry ball on a table you know what's gonna go yeah is is one more thing i wanted to ask about l as well is obviously you know we're talking about jellies and jaffa cakes and uh all all that stuff um is there still the kind of this perceived idea that uh some athletes have to are focusing on if they want to improve their performance

on the pitch they have to eat healthy versus, you know, be fueled. Yeah, dude, I see that quite a lot

where like people will cut certain things are like, somebody you'd have something's like, oh, like you actually having that and it's like,

well, yeah. But then like, you see a girl sometimes getting off the bus to go to the matches and like, they're having their jellies or whatever.

And I'm like, yeah, sound. And like one of the coaches like, they're like, do you think that's a good idea? I'm like,

well, they give them the sugar brush and they're able to run on like sound and they enjoy it like for some players it is like case of like we all have a little ritual we do before we go out on the pitch and if they're like right okay I'm going to have five jelly babies that's my thing for feeling ready to perform yeah sound mine mine was a chocolate milk and a maple pecan hours hours before that my coach hated me but I was like it brings me joy I was like feels so much better going down Rob do you know your nutrition was like when you're playing football?

Rob. Sorry, was that for me? Yeah, it was for you, yeah. There's only one Rob on the call. I didn't realize you, because I was asking Jere about his lump of cheese from some rugby preparation morning. Do you remember what your perception of nutrition

was like when you were playing football? Just something that gave me a bit of energy. I think that's all it was, really. I didn't really think about food. And before a game, I'd probably, because usually it was a bit of like a, an hours long drive to actually get to wherever we were playing. So I'd probably, yeah, a bowl of wheat of bicks,

maybe a bowl of oats or some at toast. But I'd usually be hungry halfway through the game and crash. Like my energy levels, I don't know if it's blood sugar or what, but they'd drop quite a bit. So that slice of orange at half time was just always helpful, or like a lucazade or something. But never really worried about it, to be honest. I'm only really aware of how, what I eat,

affects how I'm training, how I'm working and all that sort of stuff through the day over the last four or five years, to be honest. I wanted to touch a little bit more on body image as well and obviously tie it back to your business too. But if someone is, you know, tying their worth to their body, whether that's on the pitch or essentially even with the clients that you work on online, have. How does someone get out of that slump or that headspace? So something I do with my clients quite a lot

and some people probably like roll their eyes at it is like, you know, what are things that you like about yourself that have nothing to do with what your body looks like? Because at the end of the day, like, when someone passes away, they're not going to sit there and be like, I really liked her because she chooses it. Like, nobody gives the shit. Like, it's more like the kind of person you are,

like, you know, how you make other people feel your personality, how you treat others, like that's a lot more important than, you know, whether you're a size 12 or a size 14. And for me, that's a big thing because a lot of people will think I'll be more popular, like people who care a bit more when I am a bit smaller when sometimes I end up going the opposite way because you nearly change as a person, whether it be like you have less energy because you're so preoccupied with everything else that you don't pay as much attention. and other things. And also kind of

social media. Social media is such a big part of it. Like, I'll always say to people, like, if you come away from social media and you're looking someone, you're like, oh, I wish you looked like them. Mute or unfollow the account. Like, you should like fill your feet

by people who like inspire you, show you its cop, what you're capable of, like a page that I send people to all of the time is that you want to matter to the rugby player. Like, she's just fucking phenomenal. like she's so good and like she's just such a good role model for that like

okay you're so much more than what your body looks like and everything around that and I'll always get clients clients to set like a performance based goal because when they're kind of focusing on that it's less about okay

how much smaller can it be as opposed to like okay can I do this thing because when you realise what your body's capable of you start to respect with that little bit more and you treat that that a little bit better because obviously if you're treating your body like shit you're not going to perform and you're not going to achieve that goal either. Yeah. How do you find the the difference between trying to get that across to let's say, you know, young women who obviously probably in your your online coaching, it's a lot

easier to probably dive into that kind of deep mental work than you know you only have a couple of hours on the pitch with it with an athlete. yeah like in a pitch or like in a team environment it's very hard to kind of have that conversation with someone especially when there's like 20 odd players floating around and for a lot of people it can be sensitive topic of conversation where like they don't want someone else to hear that maybe they aren't feeling too good in themselves or like they want to work on x y and zed so like it's a conversation unless they kind of flag it themselves then it's not really something you can initiate because again it's a mental thing like you can't see if that person's struggling with it Whereas like with online coaching, if you're doing check-ins with your clients, you can kind of pick up on certain things, but they're saying, like, they might pass a comment being like, you know,

wasn't too happy to look in the mirror this week, or like, didn't feel good in whatever I wore to this party at the weekend. It's like, right, okay, there's something we need to work on here. Whereas you kind of have that one-to-one time to actually work on it with them, as opposed to being like, right, okay, we'll speak about it next week. Yeah.

Also, wanted to get your thoughts on before and after pictures, why do you not promote them in your business? So like I'll halfly share my own journey. Like I've no actually doing that. But for me, like I never want someone to come to me and think, okay, like I'm just going to be an after photo. Like, it's so much more than that. And with what I'm trying to encourage and what I'm trying to, you know,

basically work on with people, it's then kind of this whole thing of like, okay, they're like this before and because they look with this now and the after. they're so much better. So like I think, do you think that's what that unintentionally communicates to people when they see, you know,

let's say someone who's a transformation coach and it's like this is them before, you know, when they were worthless, this is them after. Now they have value because they're 10% less body fat. Yeah, I think as well,

like it just depends on the context. Like people share like the after photo and say like, this is, you know, Mary, she lost like 25 kilos and X one at a time. but like they don't go into like what that process is like what that person had to go through to actually lose that weight so then say Sally could see that she signs up with this coach because she's like yeah I want to look like Mary or like I can kind of relate to Mary but then she's in it and she's like I didn't realise it would be this hard like this is what it will involve so it's kind of like that lack of I suppose clarity around it but like it depends on the kind of business you have as well like for example like Sam Grover

both user coached by him. Like, he's always like, oh, like, he done this or he done that. Whereas transformation photos wouldn't really align with his business either. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose then there's more, there's a lot of different ways that you can celebrate someone's progress other than before and after photo. Well, we're still, we're still societally trapped in that aesthetic thing.

So losing 25 kilos in however many amount of weeks is still a. big selling point. You don't have the after photo where it says has added 50 kilos to their deadlift, can now balance unsupported doing a static lunge, can go up and down flights of stairs without getting out of breath

like those kind of stats. We don't have that. It's not really what people sell for fat loss at the moment. Yeah, I think like we haven't been tossed on that either. We only have to look what happened me and Jane when I posted my bench from the competition.

got like all these freaking in cells in my comment section like it's still very much about what you look like as opposed to like she's just bent to 85 KG that's fucking sick it's like yeah

but she carried a little bit about your body fat like it's not in 6-7 but like the two six seven guys I kind of everyone at uni he's doing it

no once at graduation when they're walk across the stage we're like even I'm doing it I don't even know what it is I'm not cool enough, dear. It's so American thing. If you think you're cool because of it, Carl,

well fucking done. I'm in with the kids. Don't say that out loud ever again. With the, you said you started to master's in strength conditioning in what, like four weeks. Is the goal to move towards more working with

teams and athletes or is it just add on to what you're already know? So I want to work in women's sports, but I also, I'm hoping I'll get funding from somebody and I can do a PhD to basically look at injury risk and female athletes. So for me, that's kind of the main aim is to basically understand the mechanism behind it

and what we can do. Because I have different theories of like maybe why it happens, but it's like, okay, is exactly true or not? because a lot of people will be like, yeah, it's the physiology of the female athlete is causing the problem. And granted, I do think that's part of the problem. But I do think the lack of infrastructure is a bigger problem. So it's kind of exploring that and then seeing,

okay, if we do punt more money into it, is it going to improve things? That's interesting. All right, I have two more questions for you. What's one belief about the fitness industry that you've completely changed your mind on? Oh. I'll let you change my mind on.

Like Carl isn't a cunt. So he was, but now he isn't, that's all take that. That's a win. It's usually it's the other way around. I thought he was the cunt. Then I found out he was. I think for me, like, from a coaching perspective, that like, you know, you don't need to have all the answers all the time.

Yeah. because the fitness industry loves apples. Everyone loves being like, I'm the know-it-all. But like, you aren't going to know everything. And like, if you don't know something, you know, ask someone else. Or like, other coaches aren't your competition. Like some of my best mates are coaches. But I'm not looking at them being like, shit, they're going to take my clients.

It's like, okay, like, walk out from them. Yeah, I was talking about this on a podcast other day. It's like, you know, when you first start off, you're quite in. secure. So like you, if someone asks you a question, you desperately want to be able to provide them the answer. So you're almost rambling where it's like, the more secure you are in what you do and your own service, you can be like, actually, I don't know. Or I don't know, but I'll find out for you. And you're more comfortable to stay in your own lane then as well, I think. Yeah, which I think a lot of people aren't comfortable doing their lack. They try and branch across. Yeah. Yeah.

you're to give yourself your younger self advice on your ACL injuries or your injuries in all of your injuries, what would that be? I suppose number one for me was when I was going through it originally. When I made, I used to say everything happens for a reason. And I'd be like, you're a bitch. I'm like, that's the last thing I want to hear right now. But then, looking back, I genuinely don't think I'd be doing what I am now had it not have happened. So for me it had to happen. She was right.

Yeah, she was right. You didn't want to hear it. I didn't want to hear at the time. It's like looking back like it is shit and you'll have to do a lot of work to go through it. But like you'll end up better because of it. Yeah. Well, that kind of ties into like you have to even even though there might be wisdom and that you still have to let people go through their emotions and their frustrations before they come out at the end and then see the clarity of why that happened. Yeah.

but you can't see like whatever that's in is when you're in the fog you can't see the fog for the trees I don't know something like that but you can still curse them down at the time and be like

shut the fuck I don't want to know about it all right lovely loved that Elle if people wanted to follow up on the work that you do where can they find you you can find me at Ellen Johnson

PT on all the usual social media platforms because Ellen Johnson has been hosted on seven years all right We'll leave it there.