The Uneducated PT Podcast - EP 178 — Ian Molphy: Wisdom for Gym Owners

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

What does it actually take to build a great gym?In this episode, I sit down with Ian Molphy of KHP to talk about the realities of gym ownership, coaching and creating a place people genuinely want to be part of.We get into the transition from PT to gym owner, the numbers every owner should understand, retention, business values and some of the uncomfortable truths that come with running a gym.Ian also shares his philosophy on coaching — what matters beyond the perfect programme, when to push and when to back off, and what years of coaching experience can teach you that qualifications simply can’t.We also explore community and atmosphere, why people really stay at a gym, the difference between online and in-person coaching, where AI could fit into the future of fitness, and Ian’s advice for PTs coming through the industry today.A conversation about building better gyms, becoming a better coach and creating something people want to belong to.

Welcome to the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carl O'Rourke. This is where we have interesting conversations with people from all walks of life. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode and I'll see you on the next one. All right, Ian, welcome to the podcast. We're going to talk all about being a gym owner, the wisdom of being a gym owner, putting people off, getting a gym. I want to talk to you about business values, coaching philosophy, building a community, build an atmosphere in class, a little bit about kind of online coaching as well as in person and the differences and kind of just making this conversation beneficial for someone who's basically starting out

on the fitness industry and not knowing which direction essentially that they want to go. So first question that I'm essentially going to ask you is, should every on the floor PT open a gym at some stage and maybe go into your experiences because I know you've been on the, it was in FlyFit you were on the floor, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So being an on the floor, PT in a commercial gym, or working in a gym, even if it's in a private group training facility where they can do one-to-one PT versus actually being a gym owner. So can you tell me a little bit about your experiences there and maybe the cost benefit of transitioning from PT to gym owner?

Like the differences between my experience? Kind of in your experience from where you've started to now and how. work is different between them two factors? Like I think I'll go back a little bit further. So like I worked, I was like an employee somewhere else before like similar gym for me. Oh, okay, I didn't know that. Like a very similar semi-private kind of model.

Yeah. And that was great. It was like just basically paid to coach their, they're like my clients, but their clients. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was kind of group, that was a small group training. Small group training. So that's where I started out and then like I feel, I don't think it's, it has to be an

progression but as soon as I started like even doing my course I was like I want to have a facility like I don't know why what you I was about to ask why I don't know well that's see this is the thing because I think every personal trainer will have that mindset well a lot of personal trainers will have that mindset that that's you making it then by you having your own facility I think that's a kind of like the perception of a strength and condition in coach is like I have to work with you know a high level team yeah versus actually getting paid to you know work with general pop who will actually pay you.

Yeah. I think I just wanted to create something that was like my own. There wasn't, like I don't have like concrete, these are the reasons, it was more like an intuitive feeling. And I think the feeling was correct. Like I don't think I was in any way influenced by anybody,

if anything like people tried to put me off of it. Yeah. Which one made you want to do it more. Yeah, exactly. And I think just like, so I started out in the fitness industry, not in a fitness, I started out in training, like in combat sports, like training and stuff. And I'd see, I was obviously interested in training.

And I'd see other people, like, running gyms. And I always, like, was interested in, like, how they'd done it. And, like, what, like, I just wanted to kind of create my own thing. And even when I was, like, an employee, say, in that place, I was always, like, a little bit jealous of, like, the owners. Who were, like, making decisions and, like, dealing with stuff and, like, stuff beyond the gym floor. I don't know why I was just like and they would be having kind of

they just had skin in the game do I mean and I was like I wanted that element to it like so but like I didn't have the confidence to honestly so I left that place and went to fly fit which is like out on your own kind of thing and less risk but you're out on your own

like you have to make your own money and I think that was a great stepping stone because like your skin in the game is like I still have to pay rent to the gym, I have to pay rent in my house. It's like I have to get leads here. In that environment, was it, were you able to like do classes for them to reduce your rent or anything like that or was it just you're paying rent and you're kind of running your

own business in their facility? So I was looking up. So when I started out, I was actually, I got like an assistant manager role. Yeah. Which like gives you a small wage, but it's a wage. Yeah. And then you run classes and you have to do manager. real stuff and then you just take PT. After a while, I very much, like, knew where I was going.

So I was like, I want to build up a decent bit of online. And so I've no, what's the word? Like, I didn't want to need anybody. You know what I mean? I didn't want to, like, need fly fair or need an employer. Like, I just felt like if I can get, like, enough online where I can pay my own rent. Yeah. And at least if I get fed up with this place, I can, like, leave and, like, not be at risk. Yeah. Because you have a bit of money. more independence to make your decisions then. Yeah, exactly. Maybe control.

Yeah. Answers everything. Do you know what I mean? I wanted to be in control of my own stuff. Excuse me. So... What did you learn working in a commercial gym on the floor in Flyfoot? Do you think that helps improve your craft?

Yeah, 100%. In what way? So, in what way? Good question. So I've always been pretty big on education and I've always like tried to upskill and stuff. Yeah. And something that a pattern that I've noticed throughout, say, like the beginning to now, and it's going to continue on, is this sort of like iteration of like studying, planning, theorize

and like kind of creating some kind of model or system. And then the next phase of that is like running the system for a while. And just like even if you feel it's not great, just like give it time. And then like do it again. Then it's like, all right, years past, or theory. passes like sit down like maybe you've read more stuff and then it's like right how can I implement this or take away this what works what doesn't work so I think that was a big thing where like when I was in when I was an employee it was like I'm running someone else's

system in a sense even though like I was somewhat senior in that gym so I had a lot of say and like the systems themselves but you're still running someone else's system so when I went out my own it's kind of realising the differences in one-to-one as well like a different thing to small group yeah like it is better and It is the most premium thing. Yeah, in terms of service for the client. That doesn't mean it's the best for everybody. No, like what would, yeah, like what would the distinctions be between that?

Okay, obviously you have, it's extremely well detailed in terms of it's one eye on the person as you're coaching them. You're really getting to know them on a personal level versus maybe when you're doing small group training. It's a more community-based thing which both have. both have trade offs and benefits. Yeah. So like the reason I kind of said that was because like when you're in one system, you're sort of like the sales aspect of it is like, this is like better than one to one.

And then like I bought into that. I was like, yeah, this is better than one to one. And then you do one to one. It's like actually in terms of a certain terms of coaching someone. Yeah. This is better. Obviously. Yeah.

And it doesn't mean it's better for everybody, but it's better. And so anyway, what I'm getting at it is like kind of create a bit of a system. and then you're the only one so you're accountable so if someone's getting results like you know it's working if they're not getting results you can only look at yourself

and then you kind of have to iterate and like a change and improve so I felt that I felt that was a big difference between working for someone else and like going out on your own doing one to one. It's like you just constantly

have to look back in yourself and it's like if someone isn't showing up or if someone isn't getting results it's like it's on me like what can I do to improve it and And then it's like the sales aspect as well as in... Did you find it easier to, you know, gather people in to come work with you when you were working on a floor?

Because there's already a place that people are going versus now you own your own gym and you essentially have to market to get people in the door. But there's already a pool of people who are looking to train and then you plant yourself there to, you know, be the solution. Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot easier in a fly fit or in a commercial gym. The only thing that's challenging is like the price tag of one-to-one PT is obviously the most expensive service you can get in the industry. So not a lot of people can afford it. And some people can afford it for like a certain amount of time. And then it's like this is not a sustainable thing.

But that's why I think it's important to have like some kind of layered or tiered service. Can you explain that for let's say someone who's a personal trainer now? They've just got their certificate. They're probably going to try and work in a commercial gym like Flyflit or somewhere else. and instead of just charging the same price every single week, what do you mean about that? So what I used to do was, like I went in to FlyFit probably as one of the more experienced PTs in there.

So like a lot of the lads that start, like in your time. So you weren't as insecure as somebody was just coming straight on the gym floor and competing with the other trainers or anything like that? Yeah, like it was, it was, I think it was relatively easier for me than it was for other PTs. people. Just because I 100% knew I could get results with people.

Yeah. And that comes across when you're talking to people. It comes across in classes and stuff. And then I think when, like most people

who can afford personal training are like a little bit older. I was a little bit older and your PTs. They're probably just, we're on a similar. Yeah, it's an easier sell

than the 18 year olds in the gym trying to sell the 40 year old man or the six year old woman or whatever. Yeah. And the conversation's smoother as well. Like they kind of people pick up on like when you're kind of leading the conversation and you're kind of like, all right, this is, if you want to work with these are the next steps or I can help you in this way or that way. And like you can easily define the benefits and the pros and the cons and stuff. Did you think, did you have good communication skills before you even entered there, would you say? Yeah. Yeah. Not when I entered coaching, but when I entered five. Yeah. So you so you already kind of improved your craft of that by by working.

for someone else in a small group training facility and then going into being put onto the gym floor by yourself where you're the main driver, your communication skills are there, which is obviously huge. Yeah, yeah. I think like a benefit of like, I started out as an employee or a contractor or whatever,

but like I had a wage every month and set hours. The benefit of that security blanket is like, I have, like, it's like a, it's not the same hours as in schedule, but like it's like a nine to five where it's like, I've no stress now in the evening, I can go and like study, and I can do courses and I can, like, do you know what I mean?

I can spend this money and not worry about it. And like, I think when you're less stressed, it's easier to be creative. It's easier to study and stuff. So, like, within those years, I was able to just kind of like, mill through books and mill through courses and stuff. And then when you get into, say, like, a fly fit,

then I felt it was more like, all right, I have to kind of, like, put the books to the side now and it's just practice. It's just, like, now I need to, like, figure out how to do this business thing. Yes. Yeah, you had the education, behind you, you know how to get people results, but now you have to package it in a way that,

obviously, so you can survive as a personal trainer. Yeah. Yeah. And so the thing, like, the question you asked a minute ago was like about the tiers and stuff. So it's beneficial for the, for the client as well, but in terms of a business model as well, like, I didn't want to be in a fly fit forever. Some people do. I think that's an interest in, I'm going to keep on off topic. No, that's fine. It's an interesting thing within the industry because, like, it's so new, that there's very few people that have probably started a career in fitness young and retired in the fitness industry

no, it's not a... No one's really done that full thing, maybe some people have, but like... There's not many. There's not many. You can see people are going off, especially, I think even it's enhanced even with social media. Someone starts off as a personal trainer.

Now they're like a content creator, or they're like a videographer for fitness trainers, or they're a business mentor, or, you know, they're... They go and do some course, on behaviour change and now they're teaching that. Like there's so many different avenues that people are going down that's actually...

Well, I suppose that's the thing about the actual... The actual role of a personal trainer is that you're wearing so many hats that you can kind of dive down into different areas that have nothing to do with fitness, or have little to do with fitness in the end. Yeah. We'll talk about that in a second, but I keep going off track. So the third thing, I don't want to just people to be listening

and be like... He never answered that. He's never answered that. But I think it's beneficial for you as a business and a person and then your clients as well. Because they're not always going to need the same thing from you. So like one-to-one I think is like the best service, but not everybody needs it. And someone who needs it now might need it in the future. Exactly. Yeah.

So the way I kind of did it was people that were on one-to-one, I then offered them like a hybrid thing. Where the program is still delivered the same way. I was using like just an app, one of the apps. And they would have the structured check-ins and stuff and we would meet up. But it was more hybrid in that, like, at the start of each block, I would meet them like for one-to-one session or two one-to-one sessions at the start of the block. Go through everything. And then it was online coaching.

And they could send in videos and stuff. The benefit of being in a commercial gym with that is like, I'm in the gym anyway. Yeah, 100%. Like there'd be days I'd be training and they'd walk in. And it's like, I'm just basically training with them. But it means like it's, what, I don't know, quarter, half the price or something. It's like way more sustainable. I think it's beneficial for the member of the client as well.

It's like something we're being on in the unit that we have is like trying to give people autonomy. So it's like guide them, but it's like I think ultimately they give them space and let them figure it out to an extent. Well, it's a big fail, isn't it? If you're, okay, you've done 10 one-to-one personal training sessions with me. You know, you've finished your block. You can't afford it anymore. What are you going to do then just stop training? The whole point was that you've educated this person so they can continue to train.

Yeah. Like that's the thing about having like it's real business people like a client journey is very valuable for everybody involved So like one thing that where I kind of differed when I went into the into the commercial gym was a lot of PTs there were selling packages or blocks So it was like 10 PT sessions equals X amount of money or blah blah blah but that just creates a very definitive like we're finished now yeah and it's like what's the point like but fitness is for life yeah it's like it's like it's it's it's just it's ingraining that the mindset that we shouldn't be ingrained of it's it's finite you know you're gonna do this for a period of time and then it's over but I suppose you also then you can if the play devil's advocate you also have that that person who money isn't an issue and like even even if you've taught them everything that you're supposed to teach them so they have autonomy they still like just doing personal some people just like they have a personal trade for the rest of their life yeah yeah and that's okay and that's fine yeah yeah that's absolutely violent Yeah. Yeah.

That's whatever you want. Yeah. And so then, all right, so you were in FlyFit. You knew where you were essentially going with that. You knew how to build up a package so that you could provide a different tier of service for each person that comes through the door. You already had the communication skills. So then when did you feel that it was right for you to kind of go out on your own and then to make the big leap of running your own gym? what have been different challenges between, you know, being a on the floor PT versus actually

being a gym owner? So I gradually tried to, so I went from, like I said, assistant manager down to just a PT. So I gave up the same thing. You wanted less hours, not more off then. Yeah, exactly. So I think with every kind of leap, there's actually probably a step back. You know what I mean? So I was getting like somewhat of a stable wage as an assistant manager plus PT hours plus

some online. and like I've never made as much money still to this day that was like the most amount of money I was making yeah profits you have the profit rather than taking of your income yeah exactly um like no overheads like yeah just in terms of a salary that's the highest salary this this is the conversation that I wanted to allude to is the like the perception that it's always a step up to become a gym owner over like an on the floor PT but like you like you said

like there's you know people who are on the floor who don't have over overheads who were making absolutely great money. But a lot of people think the grass is greener. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But like the destination or like the thing that I wanted was always the facility. So yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't just a, it wasn't just a financial decision for you. No. Um, it was the freedom that like I wanted to create, like to go even way further back.

Like when I was in a previous career and stuff. Like when I knew I wanted out of it and I knew I wanted to do something of fitness, the debt, like I was sat down and I was like, right, like what does success look like? and it was not feeling any different waking up on a Monday than waking up on a Sunday. Not dreading going in on a Monday morning. Yeah. And even though I didn't, I very much enjoyed getting up on a Monday

and going into a commercial gym, very much enjoyed getting up on a Monday and going into the gym where I was an employee, there was still like, there was stuff within the commercial gym I didn't want to do. Like there was spin classes and stuff that are cool, people enjoy them, I didn't enjoy them. especially as I got into my 30s.

It was like 6 a.m. I was like up on a spin bike. I'm like, maybe it's an ego thing. I was just like, I just. I get it. Even though I was making great money. I was like making the most of the money I've ever made.

Yeah. And I was like, I just feel like. It wasn't enough. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to do this. And you're probably getting paid more. You're still going to resent it. Yeah, exactly.

So I resented that. And then I think when you're working for someone else, the fitness industry is like, it's a very, tough industry to make it in, make it in. So like, as I, like, seeing it now as a gym owner, it's going to be very difficult to pay someone as a coach, like maybe as the industry evolves and stuff and the gyms get bigger in that, but I didn't see myself, like, making enough money to live the kind of freedom that I wanted. So, like, there was two elements to it. It was, like,

I wanted to create something, and I wanted to create, like, a part of, like, this life that I wanted to create was being able to afford a house and like you know all that stuff. Which I didn't see as a feasible thing and under somebody else. So there was loads of factors, but with each step, so like getting closer and I feel like as you, it's interesting that you said like a leap. It's almost like a leap backwards initially. So like for example like reduce my hours in the gym as the manager lost like I don't know whatever it was like two and a half grand a month. The wage is gone. And then it was fully reliant on my level. one to ones on my online then tactically like started to pay myself less so I was like trying to

get all my one to ones online which again is like less money so you're continuing to look for less money but more time yeah exactly so I'm like trading off trading off trading off and then eventually I was like had everybody online and I just quit just like quit the commercial gym and I was like right I'm making like way less than I was making but I can pay my rent I can feed myself all that stuff and now I've got loads of time so I started like for units, which is a bollic. Can I ask you a question? I'll just off the back of that.

So a lot of people will, a lot of personal trainers will actually see online coaching as the end point. Yeah. And we know like there's a, you know, a top percentage in the fitness industry that makes an outrageous amount of money and has great lifestyle and all this. Why did you not see yourself going down, even though you were creating a service for people that was helping people to stay, fit and active and continue to be consistent in the gym why was it not going down the online route and instead looking for an actual facility? I like being around people. Yeah, yeah, great great answer. Great the reason I quit online coaching actually. It's tough online coaching. Like I did it and then like I had great clients. Some of them are still with me today and like genuinely

do have good retention like when I work with people they stay they hang around. so that kept me going and I just wasn't doing the work on Instagram and like all that stuff and like it's one of those things where like I knew what I was supposed to do like he should be creating like lead markets and landing pages and like

just did what I fucking do it I just hated it which is funny because like I have to try to figure it out now yeah yeah yeah yeah so it's like you end up at the same point of sometimes yeah yeah but then they're still you're still might be ending up with the same

some tedious tasks you can't get around But the end point is still different for you. Yeah, I think there's still tedious tasks, but the vast majority of the stuff is enjoyable than what I want to do. And it's more like, I suppose the tedious tasks then would have got me to like, say, more online clients. And I was like, I don't even know if I like this anyway.

Do you know what I mean? Whereas like the tedious tasks now in the gym are like, okay, we get more members. I can like not do split shifts every day. And I can start to like create that life that I want to where I can, like, doing the thing I love coaching. and spending time and making the experience better, like outside of the actual coaching.

And just training loads and living that life. Can I ask you a question then? What has surprised you about being a gym owner? And like even you touched on the enjoyment of coaching, but essentially now you're a business owner who coaches rather than a coach who is also a business owner. Yeah. What was that question?

Sorry. So like what has surprised you about being a, a, a gym owner that when you took over, maybe you didn't foresee. The level of work, there's just always something. Like always something. And like I'm lucky in that like it's me and India, so there's two of us in it. And we have great people around us that we probably didn't take advantage of early on. we were maybe a bit naive, went into it,

could have done better, like, every stage, could have done better negotiations on leases, stuff like that, but you slowly, like, someday, like, me and India will probably do something like this and talk about, like, all the things that have actually happened to us, but like, we're not going to get into shit now. Yeah.

But, like, the amount of people that screw you over, the amount of stuff that just happens is unbelievable. And you just, you... It's a great experience, but it's incredibly difficult. Like, I think you just get really good at getting on with things. Yeah. And you get really good at like, like I've heard, I heard someone talking about this idea of like masking.

What's up in? So it's like basically like somewhat faking it, like kind of like putting on a face when like, you don't want to be that person like in a sense. But it's like showing up, isn't it? It's like, um, like there's plenty of days. where like we could be dealing with loads of stress. Like, you could be feckin' crying about something in the office.

And then it's like, oh, you know, members are coming in. No one wants to train with the depressing fucker. So it's like, right. You don't have a boss to say, no, you know, oh, fuck you. This has happened to me today. I'm not coming here. It's like, yeah, the book stops with you then. Yeah, it's like you just have to show up no matter what.

Like one of our mates was actually in the gym today who, like, works in the industry and stuff. And she asked the question that, like, we actually hadn't even asked ourselves. are thought about, because we're like two and a bit years in now, and it's made in India, and like, we literally do everything. And she was like, what happens when he gets sick? And we're like, we actually haven't been sick. Yeah, great question. But we probably have been sick, but like, we haven't thought about it or like, you know,

it's just like, like, go get into it. Yeah. But if you really get sick as well, like to the point that you can't show up, do you think about that? Like, because you even said about, we didn't use people, like, talented people sooner than we should have would that be a would that be a case of like learning to delegate earlier yeah I think um like we've got so many great people around us and like last year what they what was it September last October and we had

like one of those things we were talking about there we kind of got screwed off by a marketing company yeah and one of our members is like a business consultant and he had kind of like we got on great like I've ended up drinking in his house like 2 a.m. kind of thing, we got on really well. And he he'd kind of put out feelers a couple of times, he's like, you know, if everyone would help from here. And the Irish thing is like, yeah, yeah,

thanks a meal, thanks a meal, don't waste your time. And he said it like two or three times. And then I was like, you know what, like let's sit down. And he we put a time in the calendar. We went around to his house. We sat down. He gave us like a couple of hours. We talked about stuff. Like coached us

basically. It was a consult. And then he met up with us once a week for seven or eight months and did work outside of that as well and like not only was kind of like guiding he wasn't like hey like this is what I think you should do it was like when we didn't do something he was like yeah it wasn't just mentor and you was keep accountable

yeah yeah yeah like he'd be texting was at midnight going like like you said you're gonna do that thing today why didn't you do it and it's like well I just did 16 hours and he's like he's like I'm up which is it a really important I think to have that as well like you're a gym owner so like it stops with you but to kind of have someone over your shoulder that's going to help give you guidance

and accountability that I think sometimes it might be hard to ask other people for help when you get into that position where you are the boss yeah it's tough because like Wiggas got lucky with that guy who's helping us out because it's like

it's like someone coming into a gym and like trying to find a coach like not everybody's going to be the right fit you know what I mean so he could ask for help and they're like they actually mightn't be what you need and like you know you have to know when to like actually this isn't what we need we need X or we need Y so it's like you need to it's it's just a mad process to go through because like you need to try figure out what you need to what you need to learn what you need to get to it and then it's like who can we who can help us do you think gym owners overlook that the help that they need is probably already in the gym in terms of their members who

would know their know your business better than anyone else anyway yeah and like your members, I don't know, for the most part, like, I don't know about, like, your gym here and your guys and stuff, but like, some of those interesting people who meet. And, like, hyper successful. Yeah, it's just like, their wealth of knowledge, just talk to them, you know. And, like, so he's been helping us. We've had help from, like, a solicitor,

like, we had issues where our Latin agency was just being an absolute arsehole. And I was going back and forth. and I asked him a question in the gym and he was like, send me all the lease and he was like looking over the lease and he was like, any emails or WhatsApp you get from him just like send on to me

and like he was giving me things to respond back to it and stuff like then we've had like accountancy help from other members and stuff like it's amazing following it on from that I wanted to talk a little bit about creating gym culture

and then the values of the gym and even coaching philosophy and all of that do you think about culture in your gym? Yeah. What do you think? I think it's a

I think it's something that has to be somewhat natural. Yeah. Like everything that myself and India talk about or encourage in members I feel like we are about. You live by them, yeah. Yeah. You can create a culture

that you don't live by yourself. Yeah, I don't think it's just words on a wall. Yeah. Yeah, it's how you behave every day. It's how you see people interact with them, say hello. Yeah. All that stuff. And I don't think you can copy it off someone else either, you know what I mean?

It's a... Do you notice a difference between the type of gym culture and maybe even the atmosphere that you tried to create in your own gym versus in places that you worked previous or in different gyms that you've been to and experienced? Yeah, I think. we go through the like as I say you kind of iterate and improve and change and stuff like we and like you learn as you go so like I've worked in different gyms in the past and like a couple of different semi-private models or small group models and they might have been like quite systemised you know I mean um to the point that like like you're just kind of shoving someone into a box or like you know and there's no real space for like conversation or it's just like go go go it's like a conveyor belt of like like do exactly the same thing. And I just really didn't want that.

Like I really wanted a culture and a gym where like people can come in and we have a structure and a framework. But like it just feels like an old school gym but you're getting loads of coaching in it. So I mean, it's hard to kind of describe. And we definitely set it up maybe a little bit too open. We had like a bunch of different programs

people could choose from. And like from a business perspective, was just quite difficult to manage. Even though it's only four to one, like that's interesting. That's an interesting concept because obviously you want to have flexibility, but if you have too much flexibility, that can be detrimental too.

Yeah, it was tough. Because like people who like knew their way around the gym, like loved it. Yeah. But like for a new person coming in, it was probably a little bit like, you're giving me too much freedom here. I need direction.

Yeah. Yeah. So. I don't need open ended, open ended questions. I need you to just tell. be where to go and what to do kind of thing. Yeah, and that's, we kind of realized that.

And me and India could kind of manage it. Yeah. But if we hire someone here, that's a tough ask, you know what I mean? We know it inside out. We know our members inside out, but like someone else coming in here. So that was part of a change over the last year or so. We swapped to, like, we have a weekly structure. So basically, sorry, I'll kind of give you more context.

The previous program was we had like three or four programs. So there's like strength and muscle, strength and conditioning. And maybe there was a third one. I can't remember. And he could choose, like, even amongst that, it was like two day, three day or four day. And when you started on a program, he started on day one. So like you could be on day one of a two day program and strength and conditioning. And like John over here could be on month six on day three.

It was just chaos. Well, it was control chaos. Yeah. And so we're like, we can literally get the same benefit if we just create a framework where like everybody's on the same week. You know what I mean? So we have strength sessions, we have flexibility sessions and we have endurance sessions now.

And it works quite well because people have the autonomy and the guidance. So when we do an initial consult with someone, they'll come in, it's just this, like it's just chatting. Yeah. Mostly and then we'll go through

some movement. So we'll go through like a little bit of flexibility, we'll go through a little bit of strength and we'll go through a little bit of endurance. And like the amount that we pushed them is kind of up to them. You know what I mean? And it's just like a training session

with a little bit of everything, get to know them, and get to know what their priorities are and then off the back of that and the many times a week they want to train we'll be like right we would recommend you do X amount of strength or X amount of flexibility

or X amount of endurance sessions so across the week we'll have like four strength two flexibility and two endurance or three endurance so there's like eight sessions say but someone could come in and be like their schedule is like

two full body strength sessions a flexibility and one endurance so when they come in on a Monday they could be doing they book into a strength session, they could be on like full body one, someone else could be on full body one and someone else could be on full body two. And like, you know, so there's way less variability within the session, but like plenty of choice. Yeah. So it works quite well in that sense.

I think the culture bit, I think a good example of like it's hard to put a finger on what the culture is. But I think there was a moment a while ago where I was like, this is a cool thing. Yeah. So Luke was hardy was over in April So he arrived on like the Thursday or whatever We were like hanging out and stuff And then on the Friday He was kind of was floating around the gym and training and stuff

And India was out I think she was giving my sister a hand or something on a Friday And then like my sister lives like way north side So there was loads of traffic And India couldn't get back on time And she's like ringing me And she's like I don't want to make back for the sessions So we had two sessions going on

We had the endurance sessions upstairs And we had the strength session downstairs So Luke was just finished training, he's about to head off. And I was like, Luke was any chance you can hang around a coach. And he's like, yeah, yeah. And like he's obviously coaching people, like, he's my coach. He's been trying to coach me like 20 years. So you're kind of like, do I give him like instructions here?

Like do I just let him at it? And so like I gave him quick. I was like, the sessions were on the board. I was like just ask people where they're at in the week or what they want to do. And just like coach. Yeah. And so I was up like the only endurance sessions. And obviously you're kind of like looking down.

down and it was like three four or five people in whenever it was doing strength uh with Lucas but like it was cool because he's obviously a very like experienced principal based coach and he was just able to like coach people work with offices yeah and just like have a chat with everybody and coach people it wasn't this system that I have to like fill him in on yeah it was just like so seeing someone who's like in the game that long has similar values just being able to like slot in and yeah have a chat with everybody and coaching stuff was cool where I feel like I've worked in other gyms in the past and it was like no matter what level of coach you are

you'd have to be almost trained into the system and you know what I mean? Yeah, I understand. So you have that flexibility. I found even after the one time I came up to the gym and you were running that seminar, like even in terms of culture when I walked straight in. Like and you know, even though I work in the fitness industry,

if I go to a new gym, I'm nervous, you know? I don't know if I'm, I don't know the environment. I don't know who I'm walking into or what I'm walking into. And the minute I walked into there, it was smiles, it was hello, it was people greet in you. And I felt comfortable straight away. And Shannon said the exact same thing after. And then after we left the seminar, we're like, that was really, really good. I think even in terms of just, like you said, so obviously you have different levels of people's experience.

And then you have high level coaches. Everyone being able to belong in one area. I think that's really important. Yeah. So I don't know, like whatever the culture is that we have going on is what we want. I don't know how we've gotten it. Yeah, yeah. I think it's just what me and India are about.

You know what I mean? It's just like, yeah, we take training seriously, but like kind of don't take yourself too seriously. Is that an important aspect of good culture in a gym? Is that taking your training seriously, but also being able to have a laugh even in the environment? Yeah. I think people respect like standards.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like again, I've seen standards fall and like other places I've worked in and it's kind of like because that affects culture as well, doesn't it? Yeah, it's like, what are we doing here? Yeah. I mean, and I think I've said this to like loads of PTs in the past where a genuine,

you can kind of like calm me out and tell me I'm wrong here, but I feel like there's a point in like most personal trainer's career where they, there's like a crossroads and they decide to either uphold standards or they decide to not uphold standards. I think, because I remember it happening to me when I was starting out and I remember watching someone squat and they weren't quite hitting death. and I remember being like they're not hitting depth but I actually don't know how to

help them hit depth I don't know how to cue them or change this and my brain wanted to go with like the safe option of the corner yeah just like don't say anything because you don't know how to fix it and I remember thinking like no if I do that once it's fucking game over

yeah so that's a great example by the way because I think a lot of personal trainers will be just like I don't know how to fix this problem so I'm going to ignore. And that is the dropping standard, isn't it? Yeah, that's just like, that's it now. Or there's another situation.

This didn't happen to me, but I feel like this happens to coaches. Yeah. They're training someone and they're not confident enough in their own program yet. Yeah. And someone has been training for a certain amount of time and maybe they set like a baseline on a squat. It squats in my head now. But say they squat at 50 kilos and they hit depth and stuff and then they went through a training cycle for a few weeks. and now they're maxing out

and they've got like 55 on the bar 60 on the bar and they don't quite hit depth but the personal trainer wants to prove that he's good more and more and more so he's like well done you peeveed not like telling them that you actually didn't do the same squat

as the last time you know what I mean that's a potential path that people go down as well because it's just like it's easy wins to keep retention get buy in or to yeah to get buy in without holding your standards but like it's a simple

so like if there's a simple So like if there is PTs like listening, they're in that boat, it's just like the simple, because like, you don't always know the answer. Like if you're like watching someone train, like half the time I'll just be like, hey, I noticed you didn't go all the way down there. Like what did it feel like to you? And that's just the entry point into the conversation. It's a lot better way of saying, no, don't do it. That was shit. Yeah.

And they might be like, oh, I thought I did. And it's like, no, you're actually a little bit off. and then it's just like a collaboration of like all right let's figure this out maybe reduce some weight and like take your time and all that stuff so I think standards matter

and I think like we've had like members in the past come to us with like decent training age just like training other people and stuff and like half reping everything that's even harder conversation because they already have the ego that they're this and now you have to tell them they're not

and it's just like hey would you mind actually like we'd rather just reduce some weight and like reduce and get more depth. But like if you have standards, you have to have reasoning for the standards. Yes. Because you're going to get pushback. Like someone's going to be like, why don't? And then you have to explain the reasons why.

And either someone buys into that or they're like, I don't agree with that. And it's like, cool, this is probably not the place for you. Well, and so I suppose then if we reserve back to then, that fundamental question is like having standards, but also being able to have a laugh. it's been able to understand why you have them standards. But also then, is there a degree then of how do people find that balance, that tension between having standards, but not overcoaching so much that you're making the process so enjoyable for like someone who may be relatively new by overcoaching? And do you see, can that happen in an instant where a personal trainer gets so,

so fixated on movement to a point where they've actually sucked the enjoyment of the training out of the client's experience. Yeah, 100%. I think like that kind of goes hand in hand with like negative kind of no-cebo stuff, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. And you can hear it from like, I know, you've been coaching a long time and training a long time. Do you ever get someone in for like a consult or talking to them and you're like, I know exactly where you are at in your training?

journey. Do you know what, like, I know what, like, articles you're reading or, like, who you're listening to, based on what you're telling me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's you, like, it's like, oh, like, if I do this, will I be imbalanced? Or, like, you know, it's just, like, all this kind of negative attitude with training. Over-analysing, over-faciting on, on your movement or how you're moving. Yeah. Like, I think as a, as a standard, not as a standard as a minimum it's just like get people in and get training like I think it's very much it and we'll tell people this on day one it's like um we're gonna hold your hand initially and like coach it through all the movements and stuff and like for the first couple of sessions

we mightn't even record their lifts and numbers and stuff yeah and it's like it doesn't at this stage it doesn't matter like it's just like they're just getting them in comfortable in the environment yeah comfortable with movement it's like this is what a dumbbell is this is what a j-hook is This is like figuring out to jam meeting people. And like find out like what like an amount of training they can tolerate is for a couple of weeks. And then from there then even like some people like for example like I had a woman start with a couple of weeks ago. And she's always ran and she's never lifted. And she's like coming into her 40s and she's like I know it should lift.

so like blah blah, blah. But like she's clearly like someone who stays active like she runs a few times a week. But like in no way like she runs with her mates. It's not like I'm doing a marathon around. And naturally in a console that's like, like what, like is there a marker here? Is there a goals that you want to achieve? And she was like, I don't even know what a goal would be. Yeah.

And it's like, cool. Like that's grant. Like a goal for now then it's just shown up. And then at some point like when we check in again in a few weeks, you might be like, oh, I've seen blah blah, blah do this in the gym. Or like, I really enjoy this lift. They want to progress this on. or you might. Yeah.

Yeah, you don't know if you want to do your first, like, strict pull-up if you've never seen someone do a pull-up because you haven't been in the environment or whatever the movement pattern is. Yeah, so it's not, I think we just try not force him, you know? Yeah. Like, we're trying to create, like, just a cool environment to train. And, like, I think we have quite good, we believe in our program,

and it's like, if you, depending on how much effort and time you want to put into it, like, you will progress far in strength their flexibility or endurance. And like we will. There's people who push hard and there's people who kind of push, you know, and it's kind of like, that's cool.

And then we will obviously always try and make sure people are training hard enough to get some kind of stimulus. Do you think that impacts the atmosphere if you have, like you touch on coaching standards and stuff like that,

if you have some people who are, because obviously like you said, they're going to be training different personalities, and, you know, everyone's in there for different reasons. But is there, is there a worry of a negative impact on someone who isn't really training hard at all and kind of really going through emotions all the time? Yeah. Versus someone who's going in there to train with intensity.

Yeah. I think it goes both ways as well. Like, you know, someone's like in and like taking everything like very seriously and getting pissed off if they miss a lip and stuff it's like all right man yeah and that's you trying to deal with different personalities which is which can be difficult yeah and you're kind of hoping that like the like you don't want to force anyone to like wants to be stronger or you know but um even for people who are just training impurity for health we'll try and like the progression will just be like a slower pace yeah um but we don't want people just continuously going through the motions like I

think that's less damaging than someone who's given out. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't got time for that. Like, I think, I don't mind, like, don't get me wrong. Like, I'll do it as well. I'll be in the gym and I'll be like, oh, fuck. Yeah, yeah.

Do these split squats like, go. And like, people do that, but, like, they get on with it or they laugh after it. Like, yeah. And that's cool, like, obviously. But if you have someone that's like, sure I'm here, I'm like, like, that kind of attitude. Yeah. know and like I just feel like there's so many ways to stay active. Is that all,

will that also come down to like you talked about standards and we're talking about standards, you know, in terms of movement patterns and whatever and technique and, you know, essentially coaching, but also not just in how they're moving and the standards of that, but also the standards of how they behave or their attitudes. Say that again.

So we're talking about coaching standards, right? And you're talking about the example of making sure that they hit depth in a squat and not letting that pass. But also then in terms of communication, someone coming in and being like, oh, I'm here, I'm going to die. That's also coaching standards, putting a communication standpoint. Yeah, yeah. That's difficult.

That can be even more difficult than telling someone that, you know, you're not getting depth in your squat, is that you have a stinking attitude and it's affecting the rest of the group. Yeah, yeah. Like, we've been very lucky. Like, I think it's luck, but it's also like... You attract what you are. Yeah, it's kind of like, it's...

Like, people bring their friends and then, like, they're like them. You know what I mean? And, like, I think people just get the kind of place it is. Like, it's not for everyone, and that's cool, but... It's not supposed to be for everyone. Yeah. Like, I think an example I always use when we talk about this is, like, like, it's just training.

Like, although, like, I believe... I believe strength training is, like, one of the best ways you can train. with endurance, with some mobility or flexibility. I think that's why our structures like that. Because we believe in trying to be as like fairly well-rounded and like doing a little bit of everything. And that's just our beliefs. But like you're either bought into that or not.

So like if someone's coming in and they're like dragging their heels and like pulling everybody else down, it's like, go and go do dance classes or something. Like you're not going to go into a dance class and be like, oh, we're dancing today. It's like, yeah, you're in a bass. And that's, and we have to distinguish, it's different between someone coming in

in a bad mood because they're having a hard time versus somebody who constantly has this negativity bias around entering your facility. Yeah, it's like you're arriving through a strength session. Oh, we're doing strength meetings. It's like, yeah, you paid for this like, yeah, go and play table tennis or something.

Like, I fucking love table tennis. Yeah, so same. I wanted to go on to coaching philosophy and obviously this follows on from the conversations that we're having. And instead of asking someone what their coaching philosophy is, because I think sometimes that can kind of take people back when they have to actually really think about it.

But like, what do you believe good coaching can do for someone? Like, obviously the outcome is that you're getting people to strength train. But what do you think that outcome really from people entering your vicinity and buying into your coaching? Like, what do you feel that, what do you hope that gets people? outside of the gym essentially. Yeah. I'd like to hope that

this is where I think like coaching and own in a facility are slightly different. Yeah. Because you're creating like a place. Exactly. Yeah. So like when you say like what can coaching do, I'll always look at coaching as like facilitating.

So it's like you have something that you want to achieve or you have like a journey that you want to go on and like it's our job to like guide or facilitate that journey. I think the gym the facility itself and the community I would like it to like make someone's life bigger you know what I mean so something that I've kind of wrote like I know what I don't you're probably the same I didn't write you down on my notes and stuff and I was writing this thing about like community versus like convenience and I think it's like they're two

competing things yeah and the vast majority of people even like probably yourself and myself who like when other people look at us as people who work in the industry, probably thinking we don't think like this. But like, I would have felt like this all the time going to like the gym and MMA and like football training or whatever. But you'd be sitting on the couch and you'd have to leave in 10 minutes and you'd be like, but once you get there, it's great. It's great.

So the convenience is like, stay here, it's comfortable. And it's inconvenient to like get up and like get your bag and get in the car and drive down the road. But the benefit or the payoff is community. and you meet. I've met people in the gym environment in training that I've changed my life that are friends, like everything.

So it's like the trade off is like your world gets bigger when you go somewhere and train. Especially in something like what you're doing or like the gym that we have as opposed to like going to a commercial gym and throwing headphones on. Yeah.

Because like that's just like again it's somewhat obviously to get out of your house and stuff but like it's somewhat convenient to like go and do put the headphones on and put the hood up. It's easy. Yeah.

It's like somewhat uncomfortable to be like, oh, I have to like talk to people now and I don't really want to talk to people. So I think as a coach, I'd like to be somewhat of a facilitator. And like you probably experience it as well. Like people might come in having like never trained before. Very inactive childhood and stuff.

And then like they compete in like a fitness game or hiking mountains. Like they've achieved all this cool. stuff and they're confident and like more outspoken and then like from the facility point of view it's like like we've got people in the gym that are like best friends now yeah that like I've never met but like wouldn't have met without the gym yeah well that it's essentially you're creating a third space for people aren't you yeah yeah and so that's I think what I'm trying to do yeah and even

like like you even touched on there of something that I would know is that you said like you know they never trained before they've come in they're more well-spoken they're probably more And it's rippling into all other areas of their life without them realising, whether that is, you know, creating friendships, creating relationships, just having somewhere to go outside, outside of work and outside of the home,

feeling better. And like I always say, the quote I always use is the cost of convenience is loneliness because it's convenient to stay at home. It's convenient to not have to, like you did a hike today with your members. It would have been more convenient. for them to stay at home rather to go outside and climb by head and talk to other people,

but the benefits that they get from getting out of their comfort zone and being around other people and the inconvenience of going and doing a hike. But the benefit of that becomes huge. Yeah. So yes, you're building stronger bodies or whatever, but you're also helping to, you know, create a more positive life for them as well in this regard. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'd definitely like to go more into that like but like so because it's just me at the moment like we're like coaching like all the sessions doing all the business stuff like my ultimate goal would be to obviously grow to a point that we like take take staff on like I don't think I'll ever not coach like I always want to coach I'd love to get to a point where like we can choose yeah like we have staff like

coaching every session and I can float in and be like I'm going to coach these two sessions or these two sessions and stuff like I'd love that and then invest like much more time and energy into, so we do a monthly hike and then we do it, like, because our sessions are, like, they're a small group, but everybody could be doing a slightly different sessions. So, like, it's quite individual. And, like, I like this about the gym as in, like, some people will come in and, like, say hi to everybody and, like, not, like, not be too chatty that day and that's fine. Yeah. But they're still in there. They're still in the mix. Yeah, and then another day they might be chatty and stuff. Yeah. So it's not as like,

full on. It's not as, like, group or community focused on a, day to day, even though we're in a group. So once a month we do like a group session where it's like we call it the combine like the strength and the endurance and everything into one session and we make teams and have a lot that way. So like twice a month we have two community things which the hike and the combine. But like as we

progress I'd like to like shift role a little bit and be like in charge of like that community thing and like doing things every week and like trying to expand people's life in that way. You know? I think that would be a cool thing to do. Flipping from that just slightly,

we're still kind of in a similar topic, but what matters more than perfect programming? Loads. Go into that for me. Probably not one you're expecting, but perception of the program. Okay. I think you could have a very average program,

but if everybody perceives it, it's going to be better than the perfect program. I think, which is basically the same thing as like someone's enthusiasm. hasn't to do do with a program, do you know what?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it important to package it as that then even if, if,

well, I suppose when we could say basic programming, but it is basic programming actually basic, it's, it's the programming that it should be.

Yeah. I think, like, we have to sell stuff even to people who have already paid a membership. Yeah.

So, like, if we have, like, a new phase of a program coming in, like, there's not much point to me like sending out

an overview of the program, I'm being like, and then we're going to do this, and then we're the member that comes in, oh, we're way trying to do it. It's like, I'm not going to want to do that problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where, like, again, like, one of our kind of, like, program and principles would be like,

I just have a route down. It's like, what's the point? So it's like, if there's something on the program, you should be out to be like, what's the point of that and then have a reason for it. And if that's true, and that's the case, like when we're giving overviews of our program, we'll be able to explain the reasons behind it and get buy-in that way.

So I think buy-in is very important and enthusiasm into the program, which is kind of tied into culture, isn't it? It's like people that are brought into it. Trainer partners. What do people get wrong then about, let's say we're thinking about the personal trainer back on the gym floor for the first time and is in Flaifie? or what are they getting wrong about programming? I think a lot of

I think probably the starting point would be like potentially not programming how the member wants to be or the client wants to train. What do you mean by that? So like just because you mentioned like the commercial gym there

like I'm kind of trying to think back to like what you see and stuff. Yeah. And like I think this is kind of you could argue either way. everybody every coach is probably going to have a style and but you might see someone who's like very bodybuilding style and then someone wants to come in and they might have like goals that aren't bodybuilding but like they're kind of like shoving them into that yeah and so I think like having a good conversation initially or not having good conversation

initially is a mistake yes that you get yeah and what type of questions would would should a personal trainer be asking then for to ensure that when they are programming it's right for the client. Like, I think priorities is a big thing. So, like, basic stuff. Like, I think as coaches, our job is kind of to troubleshoot. You know what I mean? And you have to be able to,

you have to get better at, like, read between the lines or, like, not just taking their answers face value. Yeah. So, like, a simple question, like, why are you here today? Yeah. You know? Or, you know.

Something that we always ask. That sounds simple, but you will have personal trainers who are starting in the industry who are just like they don't ask that question and they're just straight into this is what we're going to do. Without asking why are you here? Yeah. I think just trying to get to know the person as a person. Yeah. I mean.

Because it is a people industry. It's like you just have to know what's going on with the person and what they want. Like the way we kind of break it down in a consult is like there's just a just. generally three things that we can help people with. Like obviously there's community and stuff, which would go with the health anyway. But it's health performance or body composition. Like you break it down,

there are the three things. So one of the questions we'll ask is like, if you were to rank these, like what's most important, like what's second and what's third? And then they might say health of the moment. And then it's like, okay, what do you mean? like health could mean different things to John and Mary and like so like when you say health what's that mean and then

They might say community like they might say my mental health or you know and They might say all my cholesterol's high and they might say my waist the hip ratio Might mention kids like all this stuff you might mention like heart conditions in the family Or it's flipped it might be performance is number one and like what you'll find is the benefit of like asking questions like this and then all this and then all this just generally talking to them throughout the session is you might find contradictions yeah so someone might talk the whole session about wanting to lose weight and like all that stuff and then when you ask them this question weight loss might be like number three and it's like you just have to troubleshoot and it's like

just like I believe that these are your priorities and like these can be your priorities I'm not trying to change that but you mentioned like a good few times during the training session but you want to lose X amount of weight like how does that why is this tree but also that's that dominated a lot of conversation and a lot of times people would be like oh yeah yeah they did they don't even know because they haven't been asked before yeah um so that's a main question that we ask um it's hard to kind of system isn't it because it's it is just like genuinely try and get to know someone yeah it's like talk to them like figure it out yeah um something that we'll ask

as well as like what does and like this might seem quite salesy but like it's really just trying to like paint the picture and figure out what's important to them so we'll be like fast forward like say everything goes well you join today you start training with us and like three

four or five years time you're still training with us yeah like if you were to sit down then and reflect back on those years like what has to happen for this to be like a success and like how they answer that question will kind of guide you and what what they need from you.

I think that's a valuable question. Then just generally get it out of you. Yeah. Even in terms of programming and let's talk about maybe just frequency real quick and you know obviously you can have the minimum effect of dose that people need and you know there'll be a lot of conversations online about

you know get them in as little as as possible at the start because it's like you know if they weren't able to, if they haven't been consistent with training before, you know, they might only need to train once a week. And then there's also then the devil's advocate of that. It's like, okay, yeah, you could probably get results maybe training once or twice a week. But this person wants to train four or five times a week because expectations and excitement and motivation is really high. Do you feel that it's beneficial as a trainer to pull them back from that excitement and them expectations? And the reason I'm asking, you know, I'm asking.

asking that is because also then I find that a lot of people will say about yeah just to train once or twice a week but then you could have the flip conversation actually if someone hasn't been training in a gym and they're not uncomfortable with their environment you know the repeated dosage of being in there means that they're actually comfortable with the environment and therefore they might be more likely to stick at it for longer so you have these two conflicting ideas of train less because, you know, they haven't actually stuck to anything consistently over a long period of time. Or train more or enter the building more because the repeated exposure of getting comfortable with your environment means this feels like a turd home and I'll actually come here more often.

Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, I'm at a point of coaching where like I'll just like say what I'm thinking. Yeah. So like I would explain that to them. Yeah. I'd like, listen, at sometimes it's very beneficial to you. use the motivation that you're talking about now and that can work really well for some people

sometimes when people come in going home too fast too hard and we actually see them dropping off before they might want to drop off and like what do you think about that and if they're like no that's not me I want to try and five days a week like as you said they're like I think people should move every day like I think it's just like flow. It's just like don't train hard every day. Yes. But you need to move. Yeah. So I suppose that's the big distinction then. You don't have to train hard every day to move

every day. Yeah. So you could be in the building every day but you're, you don't have to go balls to the walls every single day and then the most like if you feel like your body feels heavy every day then that's not very motivating to want to train then again. Yeah. Yeah. You need to figure out

like what kind of personality they are I feel and like explain to them the potential pros and cons of what we're going to do. Yeah. And if they are like, no, I'm going to train five days a week. It's like, cool, like that's going to be very beneficial for your health. Yeah. But we have to

maybe tone it back or train somewhat variously. So it's like encouraging to do the endurance sessions and the strength sessions and the flexibility. So you're not just hammering the same thing every day. Like, because I feel like if someone tells you even though you could get in, even though you could get results by training three times a week, I feel like you

would, that wouldn't suit you. At the moment, because I own a gym, it does. Okay, right, fair. But, yeah, like, if I won the lot of tomorrow, like, I would still run the gym, but I'd hire loads of people, and I would train way more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I do want to train more, but, like, logistically, it's not.

It's a treat for it is. Yeah, okay. I think... I suppose that's where the conversation that comes with knowing the person and even how much they work and how hard they work and... I think having timeframes is quite important. Yeah.

So like if I have like a seeded doubt in my head that like they're not going to be able to do this or like just from experience, it's like it's possible they mightn't be able to do this. And having very distinct like reflection points is very beneficial. So if you're starting today and they're like, no, no, I'm trying five days a week. It's like, okay, train five days a week. But in two weeks time, let's pencil in the time in a day and let's sit down to have a chat. And like whether you train five days a week or whether you didn't were chatting. either way. And then, like, if you have that conversation

and they're keeping up and they're feeling good and it's like, I broke don't fix it. And if they're feeling good, but they're not quite keeping up, then it's like, right, maybe the new normal is three sessions a week. I think, like, having some flexibility or options built in is inherently beneficial.

So it might be like, all right, like, let's bank three days. Like, let's guarantee three days. And, like, if you're feeling good, four or five. Yeah. But there's no pressure on it. So, like, the reason for that is, take two examples, right? If you have someone, if you have two people training twice a week.

And one of these people set out to train twice a week. Yeah. And one of these people set out to train five days a week. The person who set out to train twice a week and is training twice a week is going to keep it up. The person who set out to train five days a week and is only trying twice a week is not going to keep it up. Yeah, one feels like failure, one feels like they're achieving something. Yeah. So like you'll only feel like a failure for so long before you're like this isn't working. Yeah. Even though

they're training twice a week and it's working. Yeah. Yeah. They're not going to feel that way. Yeah. It would even it would even work with people having the exact same training frequency but the expectations are different. So you're both one, you're both like someone set the target of training twice a week. and someone set the target of training four times a week and one does twice a week and then does a bonus session and they've trained three times a week. Someone set the session to do four a week and they missed one and they've only done three now. Bo clients have trained three times a week. One feels like a failure, one feels like a success. Yeah. Yeah. Like the expectations and outcomes is another kind of thing that will derail people as well.

Yeah. In business or in training, you know. Like I experienced loads of stress this year because like we're two years in in June. And your expectations are higher than... I just thought we'd be comfortable. Yeah. Like, you know, I was like, I was like, we'll be taking a wage by 18 months. We'd be comfortable. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And coming into this year, like, we got hit with a couple of things that cost loads of money. Yeah. And it's like not grown as fast as you want to grow. And it was like, because I thought that we'd be comfortable by now, I was like stressing loads. whereas like if I realistically came into it and it was like, this got to suck for five years. 18 months in, you're like, well, I'm on 18 months in. Isn't it funny the way, the exact fitness advice

you'd give to someone else you could receive with business or any domain of your life? Yeah, it goes like, it's a microcosm. You know, it's like an amplified version of life. Like, you know, like it's all, the lessons go across. Like I was, me in India were talking to today. like it's kind of similar to what we're saying earlier on it's like you come back to this point of like okay no matter what we're going to have to do content and stuff and like we're both actually

quite comfortable doing content and it's just kind of built up in the head you know yeah and like I did that kind of run challenge last month and it was like there was two benefits it was like I wanted to get back into running very time poor yeah and like I have had issues so it was like just start super small and then the idea behind the videos was coaching your members essentially. Yeah, but it's also for me, it's like, if I just like batch a load of videos, even when I don't want to do it,

it's like I'm going to get better at doing content. Yeah, that's true. But something I kind of realized towards the end. So like India's kind of going through, I'm probably slightly more comfortable, like I don't mind it, but there's more pressure on India, I feel, because like India is like the one, do I mean? Like, she's the kind of,

she's the ex-ex international. athlete she's the UCD tutor like she's the kind of like the person who is if anybody's going to like draw people into the gym it's India so we're trying to like encourage India to get in front of the camera and stuff and she's taking it on and she's doing it but we're having a conversation about it and I realized towards the end of the month doing the run so like obviously I'm on the camera outside which is like not comfortable at all I don't mind doing it in the gym but like when you're outside it's different it's different people watching yeah and I realized towards the end I was like, oh, I'm doing it, I'm doing it.

But I was kind of doing it like this. Yeah, you're hiding. It's like, I'm not doing it. And as you said, there's loads of comparisons between life and business and training. I realize, like, it's a similar lesson to what you learn when you're doing, like, fighting their combat sports.

That, like, and not anyone, but, like, pretty much anyone can train and get in a cage and fight. Not everyone can train and get in a cage and, like, push the pace on someone. Do I mean? So, like, that's what I felt I was doing with the camera. I was like, I'm in the cage here,

but like I'm not really fighting. Whereas like putting the camera up here, walking through crowds talking is like, all right, I'm coming here to fight. Yeah. You know, I'm like I'm stepping forward to fight. Yeah. So it's like I think you're not going through the motions with it.

Yeah, I think like in everything, whether it's your business or training, you need to get to the point to stepping forward to make progress. Yeah. And like you either figure that out and do it or your half ass it like. Is that the same? Would you say that's the same with all the like tasks of a gym owner

or someone who's trying to build a business is that everyone kind of knows what they need to do in terms of they might need to market themselves more, they might need to have more conversations, they might need to be busier, they might need to be, you know,

more present and involved when they're coaching and creating an atmosphere and it's doing it at different levels of intensity. Yeah, I think we probably lean on what we're comfortable with our good at, you know what I mean? So I mean, India have always like, we love coaching and we love being around our members and stuff. So it's like,

we'll put loads of effort into that. That's a safe blanket kind of. Yeah, and then you'd be kind of exhausted and you'd be like, but I did the end of coaching today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the business should be growing. Yeah, yeah.

But like in reality, like it's like the, what's the words? The minimum level that you need to hit with say on the facility is like so much higher than like one to one. And like it's completely different. Like we were probably naive and like maybe even somewhat.

cocky coming into opening a facility because like I was in a commercial gym, in using a commercial gym, boat flying it. You see he's had wins under the belt. Yeah, we're like, this is like we can do this. Like, you know, we had loads of clients stuff. Well, like, loads of clients, but like for a one to one. Yeah. You can fill up your books pretty quick.

Yeah, your week gets full very quickly. Yeah. We're one to once. But like when you open a facility, it's like all of a sudden 30 members is like opening doors. You know what I mean? It's like, it's different all together. Yeah.

And as you described earlier on, it's like you're not on a gym floor talking to loads of people. It's just like a constant get yourself up and shake yourself up. So you might go to an event and put on like have a stand at an event and be talking to people and trying to get leads and stuff. And then the next day you might be talking to a business owner trying to get their staff in. and you might just go like loads and stuff like that and like nothing happens with it and you're reaching out to them going hey did you think about that offer

and didda-da-da-da-da and just like nothing and it's just like push yourself off and go again is rejection a big part of it? Yeah and I think like it's not even rejection it's just like you need to figure it out a different way

so like for example like you could go and like hand out loads of flyers and like nothing might come of it and they're like oh flyers don't work but it's like no actually maybe your flyers are a bit shit or like

or you're putting them in the wrong place yeah or whatever it is and so it's about kind of like trying to analyze and like

try again and like it's just constant trying things but trying to get better at trying things you know what I mean okay so

we'll we'll touch on one or two questions and then we'll wrap it up there so first one I'm going to ask you is are PT's too quick

to leave the gym floor then based on everything that we spoke about as in go online as in go online or go to try and open up the own facility um it's kind of like in some ways i think no matter what if you open up facility it's going to take you years unless you're just lucky like you know there's outliers yeah and and that's going to happen and you're going to iterate and you're going to improve but you're going to change our service and stuff. So in some ways you could argue, like, just take the leap and do it.

Yeah. Start super small. Yeah. And build and learn. And then like five years are going to pass anyway. And then you're going to be in a better position to open a bigger facility then. Yeah.

Do you think it's important that someone on the gym floor learns all the concepts of being able to sell, being able to create offers, understanding their program, and like putting us a certain amount of hours on the gym floor. the gym floor before they take that leap. Yeah. Like, you're probably going to, I don't want to say stagnate,

but like, there's probably going to be a period when you open a gym where, like, you're so occupied with, like, the business outside of coaching that, like, you can't upskill or, you know, and it's probably going to be a period of time when, like, it's just you coaching. Yeah. So no one's there to, like, look at your coach, like, as in no one else in the industry, you can, like, give you feedback and stuff.

So although like I probably wait like a long time to open the facility, it was good in a way that like I worked for a couple of people. Got like some kind of mentoring and feedback and like, like I need to improve on this and blah blah, blah. That was obviously beneficial. So I feel like I'd reached like a good level of coach before opening the facility. I don't think there's a right answer. No.

What do you think PTs should stop worrying about then? what do I think PTAs should stop worrying about? What do I think PTs should stop worrying about? What other PTs think maybe? Yeah. Did you ever find that? That I worried about what people do. That you were worrying what other colleagues saw?

Not in a negative way. Yeah. As in, I'm sure there's plenty of people who think I'm annoying and outspoken or something. Like, I've definitely, like, probably works with people or like, he's a dick. but I don't care about that I don't care if someone doesn't like me yeah I would want people to somewhat respect me as a coach

though yeah you know I mean yeah so yeah I care what like the industry is small and people talk and stuff I would like people to be like he seems a group of coach yeah whether they fucking like me as a person

they don't really care of you know yeah yeah that sounds like I'm an asshole like I'm like I just Like I care that my clients think I'm a nice person. Yeah, yeah, of course. I think I'm a nice person. Yeah.

People who are impacting. Yeah. Yes. I think, like, there's a, I've definitely, like, progressed as probably, like, as a person as well, though, because I probably was a bit harsh before, like, working with other people. Do you think your athletic background in and M.A and stuff like that meant going from that specific field to then working with.

the general population, like, was there a point there where you had to learn soft skills more? Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100%. It was like one of the first things. That's what the benefit of, say,

working for someone else. Yeah. Because I was like, how can I improve as a coach? And it was like, you need to learn and talk to people. Like, it sounds obvious, but it's key. Yeah, yeah. Especially as you said, if you come from sport and stuff,

it's like, why doesn't everyone want to try and do super hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, like I definitely dove into that, read a few books, did a few courses and stuff. And it's like an amplifier coaching like to no end. Um, I think like I can probably be quite critical of like, I've probably worked with people in the past that I might have been like a bit too harsh on like demos, not at them as coaches, but like, why aren't we like holding the standard or why aren't we doing this? Um, but, but I, no, that's like your personality thing, isn't it? Like, I think I got a taste to me on medicine

when that member came on as a business consultant. Yeah. And you knew what he knew? No, like he was just like, if you didn't do anything to, if you didn't do what you said you're going to do or like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It might give him a piece of work that he asked you to do

and he'd be like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same attitude, different field. Yeah, yeah. But like I like, I think I've been harsh to people in the past because I'd rather. that like I don't like pussy foot around yeah yeah like if it's shit it's shit just tell me it shit I'll fucking go on from here yeah and I think the I got pissed off with him

like a couple of times when like he insinuated that like I was skipping their corners like on purpose to be like I didn't care about the coaching or something that pissed me off but like if as long as you don't like have a go at my intent you know like I don't care about I don't know where we're going with it. Do you think it's important for a coach to have a coach in order to get better? It's helped me loads. Yeah.

Like I've worked with some great coaches over the years. And I think the biggest thing, like there's certain skills within gym, like to say gymnastics or like flexibility I'm working on at Lucas at the moment. It's like I could spend feck and ages trying to read books and study. and like I'm dealing that as well

but it's like This is a short cut It's a short cut like And it means like I'll actually achieve them goals a lot faster And if you talk to Lucas Like it took him

X amount of years to get the splits And he's like I can probably cut it in half of you Like you know Yeah So I find it massively beneficial And everyone that's coached me

Has directly impacted How I coached other people Yeah I think from I think something It's just like taking your time so like any good coach I've worked

but like as a member it's not this like rush to get to goals you know it's just like it's the process like everything's the process um so yeah

I found a massively beneficial best advice for PTs um best advice for PTs um good question good question

I suppose asking for help is obviously an obvious one but like you said that all the coaches that you've worked with has impacted your coach in a positive sense. I think it's incredibly difficult industry

because you're kind of out on your own. Yeah. Just like figure this out. And you're learning on the job. So like I've talked to some like very young coaches recently who were like just getting into the industry and stuff. It goes back to that expectations and outcomes that you talk about.

It's like to have this expectation not like this is what I'm going to be. They're just going to like make a living. Obviously, you should be have to make a living out of a career, but like,

they just expect to be making a good wage within like a year and stuff and it's like... But do you think you need that kind of ignorance and ego to get started? Because if you knew

how long it was going to take at the very start, would you start? Yeah, most people wouldn't. Most people wouldn't too. But if you think about it, right, you get qualified in like six weeks. Excuse me,

like most careers, you go to college for like four years. That's true. an apprentice or whatever. You're doing your day and you have to, it's taking you about 10 years before you're actually getting anywhere significant.

Yeah, like anyone doing anything good, like making a living is like they're doing it a decade. Yeah. Even in the gym, like training in business. And like it changes. So like as we were saying there, like I like figured out or like managed to get to a point of like having a successful one to one career.

But like then open facilities a different business. I kind of just thought like it would transfer it over. But it's like actually I'm starting again. This is another five years. of like figuring it out. So I think like trying to figure out your expectations and outcomes and like what avenue you want to take

and like giving it a few years and it's like who is in the industry that can help you. I think there's a lot of people praying on people and taking advantage of people so it's like if something seems too good to be true it probably is. Yeah.

And if someone's promising you like 30 new clients in like two months it's like it's not going to happen. And like the testimonials that they're using are like, those people are probably been in the industry for 10 years. You know what I mean? And they have this big following and they have systems and they have everything in place.

And then this person coming in has like, it's almost coincidence that they started working with them, you know? So I think, yeah, it's too good. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Most people make modest money for a long time. And if you stick in it long enough, you might make good money. Yeah.

Last one then. Best advice for, let's say, someone who has just opened their gym this week? This week. Just open their gym this week, I would say, don't shy away from all of the work that you want to shy away from. I think you have to focus on the boring shit before you can do the exciting shit. So, like, obviously you have to be good at coaching, and you have to have to have to have. your stuff in place but like fit what like you'd presumably

have that figured out they're opening up a gym and then like trying to get some structure to your week because like you're your own boss so it's easy just for like everything to bleed into everything so I'd be like setting up some kind of to do list whether it's like online

or written and like spending time on marketing all that stuff and dedicated time each week to it. If you're not sure what to do, it's like trying to get help. And help doesn't always mean someone in the industry. So I think a lot of people in the industry just think, like, I need help with marketing for my gym. So I have to go to an agency who specialize in gym marketing. It's like you can just go to an agency. You know, you can just go to a business. The process becomes

the same. Yeah. And like, the reason I'm saying that is because, a lot of places understand that gym owners and personal trainers are somewhat desperate. So they position themselves to attract them because the marketing for that is easy. It's like, do you want to just focus on coaching? Are you sick of trying to figure out marketing? We can guarantee you this, this and this. And it's like, oh my God, it's going to solve all the problems. So it's like trying to figure out what you need help with.

And then don't be afraid to like talk to a few people. so like talk to a few different agencies if you're going that route a few different mentors if you're going that route and like ask them difficult questions put them on the spot I think you need to get really good

at like calling people out and like not calling people out but like asking tough questions and having tough conversations and not being shy about it because is it easy to be taking advantage of when you're...

Everybody's out for their own like you know like we just had a thing out recently with the Latin Asian And the landlord, he was like, he just sent us a bill. Yeah. He was like, minus one fee. Yeah.

It's like 600 quid. And this went on and on. So it was back in June and India was like, yeah, send us on. Like, you had breakdown of the costs. Sent down a breakdown of the cost. And it was like, accountancy fees, CRO fees, did it, da, da, da. And we goes, it was like, that's not ours. Like, you can't just fucking write an invoice.

It's sent to us. It's not in the lease. And like, the funny thing is, what, like, we paid it last year. Yeah. Because we were like, naive. And it was like, oh, we questioned it. But then he's no, you have to pay it. I was like, oh, okay, we paid it.

And this year, it's like, fuck that, I'm not paying that. Yeah. And he tried every trick in the book. This is like a business, like a Latin agent. Yeah. He's like, send him, like, he's like, this is, you have to pay it in the next rent thing. Next time your rent comes, you have to pay it. Trying to get aggressive, like, trying to, like, put pressure.

This year, in breach of your lease. Da-da-da-da-da-da. To the point. Yeah, yeah, essentially saying that your premise is going to be taken away from this. Yeah, all this shit, like, to the, to the point that like I got like a really like a teacher talking down to a student voice not often and I was like I'm finished with people just taking advantage I just storm down to his office yeah I was like let's have a chat like yeah and did not

pay it yeah there you know but like he was just like pay it yeah yeah you know and so yeah I think like ask for help or family members anyone who's in business has a running your own gym has it impacted your relationships at all in terms of friends, family. Because in other way, obviously, like your business is essentially your baby and it's something that you think about constantly every single day. Have you been able to, while trying to build something, also manage your relationships in that way?

Getting better at it. Indie is better at it. And she'll call me out on it as well. It's easy to say, no, I can't make X, Y, and Z because I have to do this for... Yeah, but there is trade-offs, like, as in that we're definitely not attending as much stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, that's just a given.

Like, I think, like, if you're getting into it, thinking that you're going to work this nice, like, 40 hour a week, it's, like, not going to happen. And there just is, like, there's days, like, we'll open the gym at half-five in the morning and leave at 11 p.m. It's like, that's just it. Like, if you don't want to do that, you probably shouldn't do it. Yeah.

I'm not, like, glorifying the grind and stuff. No. That's just the nature of it. Like, no one's going to hand you a successful gym. So I think you do, like, we want to build a life, that doesn't involve that, but, like, I think there's a very high chance that you're going to have to do that.

So we definitely miss out on things. And, like, I've got a great group of friends and stuff, like, and I keep in contact with them. I'm not attending. I attend, like, important stuff. And I do see them and stuff, but, like, not as much as I used to it. And, like, they get it.

Like, I've got other friends who have businesses and stuff, and, like, they, like, in some ways, disappeared for a year or two. And it's, like, no one's calling out. And it's, like, see you next year. Yeah. India is better at it

like India will like if I keep talking about business somewhere at home she'd be like shut up but I suppose one good thing about running the gym as well

I think other than other businesses is even though okay you might sacrifice time in certain relationships like friend groups and stuff like that because you're constantly

you know on the ball in terms of your business it's you still get a lot of even just the culture of the gym and being around your members and stuff like that you still because you currently

relationships with that with members as well but that's like that's a trade off though as well because like I'll like everybody's different obviously um like even the things that I love I love a certain amount of them yeah amount of it like you know I mean like I love training but like I'm not going to train 10 days a week yeah yeah yeah yeah and destroy it's the love of it yeah I love talking to people but like you need to decompress I need to decompress like so what happens generally is like even if we are going to something, like a family thing or a friend thing, I do find, like, at the end of the week, I'm, like, deflated. Yeah.

It's like, I'm exhausted from socialising. Yeah, yeah. Coachal all week. Yeah. You need to be in a dark room. Yeah. Like, we just drive home and silence a bunch of time. And, like, it's funny, we make a joke about it now, but, like, because it's silent and,

like, we're not even talking and the radio's off, we'll be driving home. And when it was, like, almost every day, we'd be like, you okay? Yeah, you're okay? It's like, yeah. Yeah. It's important to be able to sit in silence with your partner and imagine. But like there's just days when it's like hard and we're both quiet. And like we sometimes do this thing where we just go up and like silently give each other

a high five. It's like, yeah, we're doing it. You know? So like there's, and like I know kind of like said there's people in the industry trying to like take advantage of stuff. But there's so many people in the industry that like help you out. Like we've had plenty. gym owners thought like you barely know you know and they're like like give james hanley a shout

out like go back and forward to him every now and then like very seldom but like every now and and he's like i still have to do it yeah i'll come out too and jents yeah but he's like come out for a coffee and i'll tell you about all the time i knew you quit yeah and like india went out to cross the century a while ago to marade and gary i think his name is and and they just like had chats and stuff and they're like you need to come out more often and like just they know they know the position you're yeah and they can empathize them they want to help because of that yeah so it's important to have people i think i think people that you can just like vent to almost and be like this is what's going on and you know they understand yeah which is important and then other people that are going to be

like helping you like logistically like right what we have to do um i think like we haven't we're far from making it, like, I think we've made it in terms of like... It depends what you define as making it. Yeah, we've made it in terms of like... Because we, like, I remember it was ages ago in the gym. One of our members, need...

She's actually gone down, she's back down. She's from Kerry. She's living in Kerry. She... I think I was like, maybe just her in or two people in or whatever. And she said something like, I have a successful gym and stuff. And I was like, not yet. I was like, not paying myself yet.

and she was like, well, like, you have lots of cool members. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's the thing as well, isn't it? And sometimes you achieve the thing that you want, but then you just move to go to the posts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, you have to define success. I think, like, we have a great foundation.

And you can be content and also want more as well. Yeah. Like, we're not greedy. We just, like, you know, I want to live a life. I think, like, it's going to take long. than you think if someone's like I'm opening the gym today it's like it's gonna be harder and it's gonna take longer so what do you do in the meantime don't quit yeah like if you don't quit you can't lose yeah you know I mean

and I think that's it it's just like and like I've thought about quitting like yeah and like this is from someone who like like if you hadn't said that to me before I'd be like fucking pussy like I'm like 36 next month yeah it's kind of like oh like if we have kids kids and it's like at what point is it irresponsible to keep going do i get a stable job someone sorts my taxes for me you know someone gives me a pension don't have to create my own yeah but it's like to go honestly i feel like it's that meme of like your man's digging for the goal and it's like if you give up now it's like yeah you're almost there yeah um so i don't like

yeah if you don't quit you can't lose and i just temptations all the time like again like talking about members and stuff you talk to members who are in like these companies and stuff and like some members would be like, do want a job? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think as you were alluded to earlier on, like you kind of start to wear all these hats and you become like quite a well-rounded individual. But you probably could go out and do quite well in a different industry.

But yeah, the whole point of this was to create a life that like every day is the same. So I think I'd just be giving up myself if I did do that. Where can people go if they want to reach you, have a chat with you? want to try out your gym, where can they find you online? Where can they find you in person? We're based in Sandiford, Bracken Road, beside the Beacon Private Hospital. Our Instagram is KHB Gymm. Our website is khbjim.e. If you want to reach out about training, or if you want to, you're open up a gym, if you're a PT, happy to have a coffee and have a chat.

All right, we'll leave it there. Cool. Well done. Brilliant. Thanks. Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you did, please make sure you're subscribed, share it with your friends, get the episodes out to more and more people so we can continue to have interesting conversations like this and I will see you on the next one.