The Uneducated PT Podcast - EP 181 — The Mirror: What Do the People You Judge Say About You? | Ger & Rob

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

Why do certain people piss us off so much — and what if our reaction says more about us than it does about them? In this episode, Ger, Rob and I explore the psychological idea of “the mirror”: that some of the traits we judge most harshly in other people can reflect our own fears, insecurities, values or parts of ourselves we've learned to reject. If you can't stand lazy people, are you terrified of becoming lazy yourself? If you judge people for wasting their potential, is it because you're scared you're wasting yours? If weakness makes you uncomfortable, were you ever actually allowed to be weak? We take the conversation back to childhood and look at where these beliefs begin — what we were praised for, what we were criticised for, the types of people our families looked down on, and the unwritten rules we may still be carrying into adulthood. We get into:The people we instantly judge — and whyPsychological projection and “the mirror”What our biggest triggers might reveal about usChildhood conditioning and family beliefsJudging laziness, weight, weakness and attention-seekingSuccess, ambition and wasted potentialMoney, status and feeling superior or inferiorWhen criticism is actually disguised envyWhy we struggle with traits we don't allow in ourselvesWhether our judgments are really our ownWhat we're most afraid of becomingLearning to turn the judgment back on ourselvesA conversation about ego, insecurity, childhood, self-awareness and having the courage to ask an uncomfortable question: What does the way I judge other people reveal about me?

any like insights that resonated with you that because you know when you go to event like you never really remember everything that was spoken about but there's always like one or two little nuggets that you're like I yeah I can take that my back pocket I think the one that I I think Anna repeated it quite a bit on some of the panels and a few others did as well and it's it's not really new information but it's just positive self-talk and I know that's kind of probably seen as a little bit cliche at times but just even just in your head, like when you're moving around and talking about yourself

and like going, oh, you stupid idiot, you shouldn't have put the knife in that place or whatever. Like just little, tiny little nuggets of self-talk that happen throughout the day can have a massive impact on your mental health, whether that's in fitness, nutrition,

like body shaming yourself and things like that. So the impact that positive self-talk can have is one of the things, I think. Nice. And was there a conversation on, how positive self-talk is unrealistic for people with too strong of a negativity bias? There wasn't that we didn't, they didn't really go into that much detail with it, but there were discussions of obviously the holistic human and like how everything impacts it.

So like, for example, you can't always go at the gym if you've got too busy a schedule, your mental health declining, you're not looking after yourself food-wise, like obviously all of those things can impact. And like you say, if you have 20 years of negative self-talk behind you, and that is the way of communicating with yourself, of course it's going to be difficult to get out of that, isn't it? Do you use a positive self-talk in your daily life? Truthfully.

I kind of force it here and there. So I think occasionally... What do you say? I mean I just want I just want to play devil's advocate because what's the point that I haven't these conversations

if there's not, you know No I guess just the typical thing well it's more correcting negative self-talk at the moment rather than actually focusing a lot on on positive self-talk so it's...

How do you correct yourself? that's a great question so like if if i'm having a day where i'm not being as productive as i'd like to be i'll try and kind of think about what the reason like might be so i went out for a few drinks with my dad last night it's like health again um and this morning i was a little this morning i was a little bit flat and i was kind of unmotivated to do stuff and i was like oh you're such a lazy piece there but then i was like no you went out last night you made the most of last night with your dad, you had positive experiences. You, yes, you're feeling flat.

There's a reason for that. You're not just the broken human. You've done something to yourself. You've had a good experience of it. Just accept it. Do what you can to make the rest of the day better. It's almost like two robs in a courtroom. Yeah, yeah, basically.

It's like, this is bad, but then trying to find the silver linens of it. I guess that's what I do more than positive. self-talk necessarily is try and find the silver line in. What about you, Ger? Well, I do both. I do. Positive self-talk and negative self-talk. It's not always going to be positive.

I think we talked about this before where... Yeah, we did. Neutrality. Like sometimes negative self-talk leads to good decision-making for things that will put you in a more positive mindset. Yeah. as long as you're not

it's a fine line between beating yourself up doing something and being like alright I'm just going to get my fucking act together and I'm going to go do that grocery shop or I'm going to go out for a walk or some of that because like it usually is when you're when you have

negative self-talk it's stemming from something else like Rob said you had the night out before so you're tired you're underslept you have that level of anxiety that comes from post post booze and there's always some

some other thing that's impacting you that you're not just looking in the mirror and going I fucking hate myself it's coming from something. Yeah. I think when people talk about positive affirmations and all that I think that causes more harm than good like I, because the people

that you're talking about that are people who tend to self-load don't have high self-esteem and then like it ends up becoming this like toxic positivity where you're telling people to tell say great things about themselves and you know it's just forced i i i am love i'm loved oh yeah love i'm so great like like i've i've like for years you would see shit like that and like pinterest and stuff like that and i was like does that actually fucking

work for anyone whereas like instead of like the self-love kind of narrative i've always like taught a more a more practical way to look at it for people is like the self-respect kind of thing it's like yeah I feel like a piece of shit I don't like myself but I need to respect myself by like getting up out of the bed making my bed having a shower going for a walk

I'm going to respect my body by going for a walk I'm going to respect myself enough not to like give myself shit for the rest of the day or whatever it is like I'm going coming from that kind of neutrality point seems a lot more realistic for people's mental well-being.

You've said that word respect as well. I think if you are aware of things that you are doing wrong and that you could do better, but you just wake up and go, I am the best version of myself. I am great. You do disrespecting yourself by not- Also, that's very like,

that's not very, like, if you're like, I'm perfect the way I am and you're in the absolute, like, depths of despair, well this is the fucking pinnacle of what I can achieve then great like what should have been that's a very this this is it this is this is the I'm perfect as I am I don't need to change this is exactly well like this is the rest of my life and you feel like shit like how is that you know positive or motivating it's not any other any other topical panel talks that I can

shit on Creighton's not actually that good Oh Go on It's not actually that good That's all well That laid out That's not exactly what was saying

No it wasn't that It was more so it's obviously good It's the most heavily researched Kind of supplement for training Does have benefits But if you're not doing it using it alongside showing your body respect, sleeping, hydrating, training. That's a caveat.

That's a caveat. It's not going to put a plaster on the top. You tricked. You played a trick there. That's a caveat. It's like no supplement is going to be able to replace lifestyle. But that's kind of, I think that kind of links back to the misinformation thing. Like we're bombarded with creatine's great.

These supplements are great. And we go, right. yeah let's like green tea years and years ago just like this is going to fix you it's just like okay it's it's it's an it's a thing that we could use to improve our lifestyle and we used we used we used to be told to fucking drink liters of green tea back years ago for rugby and i tell right now if you drink liters of green tea for about two to three weeks you will shit blood yeah but the research on creatine and green tea are like a mismatch really like great creotain has great cognitive effects as well as performance effects as well.

And also what I would say about creatine is that the people that are asking about using creating as a supplement are already probably engaged in a in a healthy lifestyle. That's because that's literally the next step to them being curious about them things. Like you don't see someone who's on the couch and it isn't training and isn't really concerned about health and fitness asking about creating. No. I think you could probably see some people that like if they're hearing these these like,

this is what people are using for performance. Where are they hearing it from? Because like, I think he's right, I think he's right in the sense that most people that ask you the questions have started off in the gym

or some form of exercise or their algorithm is targeted towards health pages and various things like that. You won't see too many people sitting down smoking and drinking, looking through videos of health and wellness and people take, their supplements.

Yeah. One that I would agree with then is probably peptides. I know a lot of lads who are asking about peptides in the gym and stuff like that, who like, fair enough, they want, I know there's no, I know it's only animal studies on it and stuff like that,

but there are people who are asking about peptides, and they're not even, like, training to a level of capacity that even, like, warrants the discussion. Like, sleep for eight hours of night and,

like, actually take your sets close to failure. actually consume enough protein and, you know, maybe then if you want to have that discussion, have that discussion. Yeah. It's, look, it's the same as someone thinking they need juice to get themselves somewhere and they only, like, there's a couple of months where they train two or three times. Yeah. Same idea. So mental health on positivity, supplement misinformation, any other good panel talks or was it just panel talks or were were there any talks

Michelle Carl and Sof did one around the workshop around goal setting wasn't it okay body image

I mean what did they talk about you're asking Addy you don't even have a fucking clue you're probably still hug over no I was eating brownies snacking away um

I just remember I just remember the I remember the list of goals that you went around life I think you did this for my clients on a webinar me yeah it's like what are your top five values values yeah sorry values not goals values yeah and come here

did you do the exercise yeah Rob tell me what are your top five values they're on my notes but I think one of them was curiosity one was teamwork one was um teamwork something like community

team works interesting why is teamwork a value of yours do you think um I can't do everything by myself like I I I mean I could like I could survive by myself I could probably work out how to do it

but I think you know the way you were working as a tutor by yourself for a number of years no because I was working with the students and uh very good you got me, you got me, you got me.

But also, yes, in a way, I get what you mean in terms of that being a bit more of an independent teaching role. But there were other tutors that were part of the society and you kind of bounce off them. When I was working by myself from home, I felt less engaged and less motivated by that space than I did when I was working in person and I'd bump into tutors every now and then. Okay.

So teamwork is something that you value. how does that look like in your life going forward? Going forward. Well, I am actually, I'm going to be part of a new mental health support team in the role that I'm going to be in. So hopefully it's going to be a big thing, teamwork. Obviously, working with the kids individually. I'll be doing assemblies and group sessions in like primary schools as well. And working with younger students, parents,

So it's kind of, yeah, it's the mental health approach through this job is going to be generally whole school approach. It's making sure teachers, students, parents, everyone is kind of aware of what they can do, what they can keep an eye out for and things like that. So it's kind of a big focus of my career is going to be teamwork. What else was the value of yours? Curiosity, teamwork, respect, I think was one of them. you said community as well didn't you yeah yeah so community yeah that was it community teamwork respect curiosity

okay let me flip the question what do you value let's say what would you value in a partner like a wife you always comes back to this while I think about that call can you answer that question please I'm interested in your view chair answer a question I want to hear your one man

Alright let's get we don't get we don't get to I feel like you's I feel like you's were too hook over to really pay attention to this event Because you see you don't you aren't providing me No no I was functioning fine Anyway I have Anyway I have some I have an idea that I want to Everyone by is anyway okay so right

We're going to talk about now Rob you'll be interested in this one Psychological projection Okay so I was good at that isn't he What? Carl's good at that I am actually good at that that's the whole purpose of this podcast now so I wanted to talk to you about

psychological projection because I had this conversation with a friend in the gym the other day right and she said to me that she's faphobic now before she's not faphobic right like I know her I've known her for years she treats everyone with respect

but she said that to me and what she meant what was it like that she was terrified of of being aware of Oh, she has a fat phobia. Exactly. And I questioned her on this and I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then I said usually like, like, you know, what we judge is usually a mirror to ourselves.

And she was like, what do you mean by that? And then if she said, another interesting thing she said was like, oh, if you knew my, if you knew my father, you would understand why I'm like that. And I was like, oh, that's really interesting. So then I went away anyway and I was thinking about that. And then I was like, all right, I'm going to put. up some examples and I'm going to get Jair and Rob with their fabulous brains to kind of map these out. Okay. So the basic idea is that what provokes an unusual strong reaction in us reveals

something about ourselves. So it's a fear and insecurity, a desire, a trait, whatever it is, something that we we don't comfortably acknowledge. All right. So you despise people who are overweight. The mirror is you have a deep fear of becoming overweight yourself. You have a fear of losing attractiveness, you have a fear of loss of control, of status, of acceptance. And usually most of these fears can come through childhood. So perhaps weight was constantly discussed at home. A parent criticized their own weight or their own body or, you know, their child's body or whatever it is. Or maybe you were praised for being tin or being overweight was treated as shameful. so you know whatever it is so basically what the thing we judge in others is usually something that

you know we have to look inward so i'm going to start off with a nice easy question for bodice and i'll start off with rob because rob projected onto jair and onto me there when i asked him about his values so question for you rob is what type of person do you judge immediately Oh That is a great question Okay Do you want me to answer To make it easier

And then you can That's a tough one Yeah because I'd like to say No one All All all All I'll

I'll cast a judgment On myself to help you Okay Right I think I've got two But yeah Okay Okay I'll go first

So I can't stand lazy people Right So not that I can't stand lazy people But obviously, and now this is uncomfortable. So the mirror is that rest makes me uncomfortable because I've connected productivity with personal work. Yeah? And you'll have to sit down and listen to your own thoughts.

Exactly. Yeah, right. Yeah, nobody wants that, especially that me. So I'm looking at that from like a childhood perspective. And then I'm thinking about praise coming through achievement. So I was praised if I did well in sports, if I want to race, if I, you know, did something productive. So I learned early on that if I'm not achieving, I'm failing. So then when I see someone else not doing something,

that causes a reaction in myself. So there, I've just psychoanalyzed myself for years. All right. This is big for you. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I know. I feel uncomfortable in this seat right now.

He just fucking ends the car. Oh God, get that off. Keep going. Anyway, so there you go, Rob. So there's my example. And now I want you to think about what type of person do you judge immediately? But even subconsciously,

you don't mean to do up, but you do. I'm going to broaden the answer a little bit to begin with, the narrow it. I feel like everyone judges everyone immediately. Of course, of course. We kind of have to, don't we? But negative, positive. See how he framed that.

See how he framed around that pre-framing the answer. So he's a good guy. And I probably do that because I'm insecure about misunderstanding, being misunderstood and not. Yeah, which is probably why, well, it's definitely why in some of our podcasts, when you do what you're about to do now and interrupt partway through the sentence, I kind of get a bit sassy and go, well, if you let me finish, you'd have heard that. because I want to be understood. I don't want to be misunderstood in what I'm saying.

So who do you judge? You. You judge people who are rude. I do. Yeah, probably. So I was going to say to start off with, people that are unhygienic and people that I'm attracted to as well at the same time.

Not that they're both combined. Just those are the two people that I would say I judge immediately. one is for obviously personal gain, one is for avoidance and what have you. Whereas what I was just, yeah, so people that are rude are probably the ones that bring the most extreme response from me.

Amazing, amazing. Okay, so why does that particularly bother you so much that people are rude? I think part of it would be upbringing. So like I've been, it's been instilled in me that you let someone finish speaking, you listen to their viewpoint, to try and understand

maybe through history, just stuff coming up and going, right, a lot of issues occur because of misunderstanding. So if you can try and communicate things as clearly as possible, let the other person say what they've got to say, then conflict may be avoidable rather than just going.

They said these three words, therefore I'm going to jump on them. Very interesting. So every time we interrupt you on this part, for how ever many we've done, you're sitting there judging us and our upbringing. That's okay, Rob. You can say yes.

That's a good question because that... No, I want him to say yes. No, because it wouldn't be judging your upbringing. It's me more going... Rob, what got you... See, I did it again. Rob, what got you praised as a kid? Nothing. No, um...

Oh, I'm going to clip that. I'm going to clip that. it was probably academic performance and sport performance what about in terms of how you behaved what were you so you were taught it was unacceptable to be rude when you were younger to interrupt people

I think I probably witnessed my sisters having disagreements with my parents quite often which is just like a normal thing to do growing up especially like going through puberty and stuff. And I think I kind of just felt the discomfort in that and just took a back seat. So I never really,

if I was feeling particularly confident on that day, I might like step in and stir the pot a little bit to just try and heat things up a bit for entertainment. But I tend to try and avoid it. So conflict is one thing that makes me quite uncomfortable because I have never really been used to it. and I don't know if that just emotionally heightens me whenever there is kind of

a kind of conflict. Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, I'm actually talking. Are you really conscious of it? I can see it and like... Is there a type of person that you envy but the skies that envy as criticism? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but yes, there will be.

Because it's that thing, isn't it? Where you don't put people down that are already below you in what you want to achieve. So like there'll be people, like for example, yourself, Carl, you in Bali and things and trips that we've done, when you've made a decision, you generally stick to it and you'll go and do it regardless of whether, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but regardless of whether it inconvenience is someone else, because you've got that level of self-respect where you're like, well, it's either inconvenience in me or it's inconvenience in them in like a harmless way. therefore I might as well do what's productive for me and I think there's a bit of envy there

and probably occasionally I'll call you an asshole but it's not there's always a little criticism with it but it's it's more envious that you just do your own thing let's get around that now

so if so when you look at someone who's being rude and if you were to put a mirror up to yourself how could you psychoanalyze that just on that point really quickly I don't know if it probably doesn't answer the question my sensitivity to rudeness is probably very high so like you

like historically of when I was younger I was probably not aware of it and I just reacted whereas the last two to five years I've become aware of the benefits of just making your own decisions and cracking on and how there's not that malice behind it a lot of the time. It's just, I want to crack on. Whereas before, I'd be like, well, that seemed rude to me because I was being rejected by that person because they went and did

their own thing. They didn't ask me. And then actually being in the other driving seat or in the other seat, it's like, okay, actually, no, you just want to progress with your life. There's no malice. There's no negative judgment on the other person. It's just you're doing what you want to do. That is such a fantastic example. That's exactly how I played. Can I get a gold start? That's exactly how I played this exercise out in my head. Perfect. I'm glad I could. Thank you for contributing. What type of person do you judge immediately? It is a hard question. It is exactly like Rob said, we judge everyone. I think because I am

loud and I can be rude and I'll interrupt people and I'm messy and I'm a reckless driver. It's kind of like, it's hard. I didn't say judge yourself. I said huge. I know, but this is the point I'm trying to make is like when I get, like, if there's any point where I feel like I'm starting to judge myself, I instantly start turning it back in. What do you mean? I know, I know a lot of my own fault.

self-awareness is an awful fucking, an awful fucking thing. But like, I don't, like, I don't think I look at someone who is, will say, unhygienic, and instantly I'm like, oh, dirty bastard, what's wrong with them? I'm like, oh, what, Joe? Like, what is happening? The smell of you. What? The smell off you.

The smell off you. Like, get away from me. Get away. Go to shower. You're dirty bastard. I think it's. I don't like, I don't like people who criticize people. And I know that's from how critical I am of myself.

Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to try to make the question. I'm going to try, because you've, you've, you've, you've took me into spins now. And I'm, I'm, I'm confusing myself. So what's a trait in someone that instantly pisses you off? It's fucking hard now for me to say this. People interrupting me is terrible because, but I do it. That's worse. I find sometimes I,

stall just enough that I'm like I need to say what I need to say and I need to say it now so then when someone talks over me I'm like oh will you ever shut the fuck up let me finish what I was going to say what does that person represent to you oh that's that's me not

because I know I'm doing it I know I'm doing it and even when someone's talking I'm sitting there and in the back of my head I'm like don't say it you don't have to say it give a second there's a brief pause go for it like I'll drive myself demented in conversation because I want talk in the middle of something.

So why I end up interrupts and Rob half the time while we're drawing apart? It's because you've got a thought in your head and you don't want to forget it and it's valuable to that point. And I do the same like I do interrupt people every now and then but because I know how, especially

if it's an important point. Like if it's an important point halfway through and I haven't got to the end of the story like I'm struggling to do now. Like if you then interrupt halfway through the conversation I'm like I had this really important thing to say the end, that's when I get like, ah, but if it's just, you've asked me what I've had for dinner and I start telling you and you've interrupted me halfway through, like, oh, I had chips last night

as well. That doesn't bother me so much. But, yeah. So would you say then that it's similar to Rob in terms of the type of person you judge immediately as someone who is rude? Because you would probably deem someone who's interrupting you halfway true what you're about to say is rude. Like I could say rudeness because like there's like interrupting people to a point is one thing but it's like the way and the way people conduct themselves outside like to know that they're above you

like I've watched I actually watched a couple who looked well to do in like a test score or something or maybe it was Duns or something go straight past a queue where a lady was waiting with crutches to go use a self-checkout and just walked ahead of everyone. And the way they looked over their shoulder

in the way that like, oh, I've made a mistake, but completely plowing on what they're doing. This one was there with a bag and two crutches trying to get to the top of the queue. There was about six people in the queue and they walked straight to the fucking top of it. And then almost then stared at the ground

the entire time while they kept scanning their stuff before getting out of the shop as quick as was. That kind of stuff. It's the kind of thing that makes me want to go up and grab their shit and throw it back down the length of the queue. Sorry, Rob, go ahead. I would be similar in that situation, but then because I've possibly been that person in the past

and actually, hopefully I haven't, but actually the thought process between overtaking the person, realizing what's happened, but then being so quite insecure and unsure of, how to address the situation afterwards. I think there's almost more discomfort in going, oh my God, I'm so sorry, we've kind of, we've overtaken you, would you like your hand getting your shop into?

That's a more uncomfortable conversation than just going, going to pretend that hasn't happened and just stare at the ground. So when you speak about the person skipping the queue, we could call it rudeness, we could also call it entitlement. we could also call it selfishness. Now I, and the reason I think of selfishness is because I feel, if we used Rob's example, is that the reason that the rudeness or the selfishness

of, let's say, interrupting someone as they're speaking or skipping the queue, bothers him so much is because if we put the mirror up, is that he very much considers other people's, you know, space or opinions or to a point where he's so, selfless that he could do with a little bit more of being selfish. And I have that problem for sure with relationships as well,

because if I'm in a relationship, generally speaking, you're a selfless giver. Sometimes. But like they'll probably be, I don't know if it's like an ADHD thing or what it is, an obsessive thing maybe, but they'll probably be on my mind every single second of the day, if not every other second of the day.

So I'll have been thinking through, how am I going to interact with them in this, situation, what am I going to do this evening, when am I going to see them next, what message and all of those things. And then when you see them and you hear that they've not really considered much at all or they haven't, then I kind of just go, oh, I'm not that valuable to them. Oh my God, Rob, if I gave you a little bit of me and I took a little bit of your traits, we'd actually make a full human. You both be in relationships.

A full consider a human. But also at the same time, it creates this. toxic thing inside me that's like I feel disrespected therefore I expect this thing from the other person I don't get it and then I'm like well this person doesn't value me as much as I value them therefore I'm a piece of crap because I'm not worthy of their love or whatever but then I'll also judge them because I'm like well they're they're being rude because when actually they're living their lives they've got this well-rounded life going on

and I'm just all in growth all info whatever the word is just engrossed with that rather than being like right I need to look after this aspect of me this aspect I need to have hobbies I need to have friends need to do this that and the other and having a relationship is a bonus I can see how much you are putting in to not interrupt in I think I think that's such a fantastic explanation because it's exactly what I'm talking about in terms of psychological projection It's like any time you feel judgment towards someone, then you can put that mirror up and it like, it shows what you need more of in your life. Like I think that's a fantastic tool to have. It is, but it's, um, it only really works when I'm not in a relationship. When I'm in the relationship,

those emotions kind of take over. And they're so like with you, like you're, when I said about positive self-talk before and you brought up, you've developed the habits of the negative self-talk. it's kind of like that when you're in a relationship it's just so exhausting and my brain's on it all the time

that I've struggled to process the kind of reality of it and the what's the word the rational I talked about that in therapy as well it's a lot easier to be aware of it when you're outside relationship but then you have the whole dopamine

hit love all that jazz and you just kind of start to forget that so you do fall into to that trap again. Yeah. But like also you could say that like it's the kind of yin yang thing where it's like, okay like opposites, but it also helps you in certain aspects of life as well. Like the fact that you're, you know, thinking about other people and being selfless or like

that also has, that's also obviously had benefits to your life as well. Yeah. Yeah. And like I meet people here and there. that I'll interact with maybe once every month or once every couple of weeks. And you get positive feedback from people like that. Like, oh, it's nice to see you again.

Like, oh, whatever. There's not a huge amount of negativity surrounding your interaction. But where's I going with that? But that's when it's a limited exposure and you've kind of got the mental capacity to just be like, cool, I'm going to be a rational human. But when you're, and you don't expect as much from those people,

Whereas when you're in a, when I'm in a relationship, I think I expect too much of a contrast between the interactions I have with friends and a partner. Can I give you another example? Please do. Okay. So let do, does anyone here hate arrogant people? I think it's a strong word. I feel like I can say this, that myself and Carl can come across as arrogant.

Okay. Let me give me the people that know me wouldn't consider that. I consider that, but outside, yes. Okay, let me give you the example then. All right, let me give you. So you really hate arrogant people. So the mirror is their self-confidence may represent something you've forbidden yourself from expressing. So in childhood, perhaps you were regularly knocked down when you expressed pride.

Don't get too big for your boots, et cetera, et cetera. So you learned that openly believing in yourself risks rejection. I think, so with this self-projections, stuff. Yeah. I agree with it to a certain degree, but also the arrogant person that's disrespected you could just be an asshole. Well, well, you added in the disrespect. No, no, I agree. So like, in terms of the disrespect, what's going on? No, no, no. So I never said anything about disrespect. No, but like, so let's say an arrogant person, an arrogant person tends to have less respect for other people, right? Yeah, it's the difference between self-confidence and

arrogance. Yeah, yeah. But like, I guess it's right, yes, you're right. I'm adding extra layers into it. If it was purely just arrogance by itself. Because you could look, let's say you're following someone on social media and they're, let's say they're talking about themselves and you say something like, oh, that person's really arrogant. They're really full of themselves. But you've never had a one-to-one dialect with that person. So there's an emotion coming out of you, even though that person has never disrespected you. You don't even know that person. but they're they're producing a feeling in you and you're like, oh, why is this person annoying me?

Why am I judging this person? Yeah. And like you just said that, I associate arrogance with disrespect for the people, whereas that person might just be incredibly confident. I've gauged them as arrogant. They might actually be incredibly insecure in the way that they live their life in general, but because they're projecting confidence in what they're saying online,

and I can't do that. I therefore am like well there must be this negative thing that is associated with them See I like this exercise because it makes you look at yourself in a very uncomfortable manner I'm gonna go enough to have a drink

after this link I'm waiting for Carl to answer questions I've already answered I've already answered I've already answered we all right I'll give you another I'll give you another one that I'll give you another one on me then okay okay all right that's fair all right yeah this is a it's a safe space for us all

except you get to pick them so this is what happens when you come prepared you know all right so you can't tolerate emotional people why do you hang out with me then sometimes i suppose we're in a different country no i obviously can tolerate emotional people i am also emotional but work with emotional people yeah but i think too much of it gives too much of it um all the time gives me an uncomfortable feeling, I think. So the mirror is their vulnerability

may confront you with emotions you've learned to suppress. So childhood might have been maybe crying was mocked, emotions weren't disgust, or you heard things like

stop crying, toughen up, etc, etc. So you learned that emotions equal weakness. Yeah, or,

and your possible fear of feeling safe enough with someone to be that level of All right, let's not project your ideas of my relationship struggles on me.

All right, buddy. Let's just stick to the exercise. So a lot of the examples that you've brought up have been to do with childhood, childhood, but also how other people have responded to someone being emotional or to someone being overweight or whatever it is. Yes. I'd argue there's a degree particularly for me I don't know about others but if you see someone like if the statistics of the people that you see that are let's say overweight is that they

are upset a lot of the time they're angry with a lot of people they don't do much stuff so you it's not necessarily that you've heard people saying fat people or people that are overweight are bad people, it's you associate that appearance with self-doubt, negativity, upset, and it's just like, ooh, I feel a bit uncomfortable with that. I don't want to be in that position. What's the visible thing that could be making that happen? It's being overweight, so then you kind of avoid. Does that make sense? Yes. So you're saying, like, if you're uncomfortable with emotions and someone who's overweight, the root cause of that is emotions, then dealing with them people makes you uncomfortable. Possibly. So let's stick with the emotions one. If you see people being emotional all the time

and it stops them from them doing their hobbies, it stops them from cooking, it stops them from looking after themselves, it stops them from engaging with other people positively. Yeah. Or at least your perception is they're upset all the time, therefore they don't do these things. Well, no, mine would be like so, we're talking about it in the case of judgment, right? If someone is being quite emotional all the time, my judgment on them is that they're weak and that comes from a perception that overly expressing your emotions is a sign of weakness. Yes, so, but I agree with that. And I'm not obviously questioning it because that is your viewpoint of I'm just saying that there could be this sexual thing

rather than in childhood we're told crying as you being weak. Yeah. It could be you making that perception yourself of going, I've seen this person crying all the time and they don't do anything else. Yeah. You might make that association yourself between the collaboration. That would

intertwine with the first example I gave of lazy people. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying, by the way, let's just frame this again. I am not saying, that emotional people are weak. I'm just giving the example

of what your childhood perception. Can't wait to cry with you for a week in a closet. Stop doing that chair. Okay. All right, this is an interesting one. You'll like this one.

So you judge people who stay in terrible relationships. Doesn't everyone, everyone does that. Well, you obviously know since he's made that statement. Come on, are you telling me if you have a maid

who's in a terrible relationship, you don't judge it. So Jair judges people who are in terrible relationships. All right. So the mirror for Jair is his behavior may touch on his own fear of abandonment,

dependency, or accepting poor treatment. And that's because when Jair was a child, if unhealthy relationships were normalized at home, he may have developed strong beliefs about what relationships should look like or become determined never to repeat what he witnessed. I'm quite happy I do all this in therapy,

but thank you, Carol, because I'm not going this week. Does that make sense, though? It does make sense, yeah. Explain. Come on. Anna, if you want to bring your views into this. You're on a podcast. Give me your thoughts.

Say it again. Okay, so if you judge people who stay in terrible relationships, the mirror of your judgment is that this behavior may touch your own fear of abandonment, dependency or accepting poor treatment. and we'll just leave it there forget about the childhood part would you agree with that do a degree

I'm getting fucking watched now look yeah yes I would agree with it so you have a fear of abandonment of course have a fear of abandonment just spin the camera on to Anna there for a second I'll clip that I think I'm okay there now

currently on top to the radio do you have a fear of dependency Do you feel independent? Do you want to come over here for a second? No, Jay, come on, answer, come on. She has a point. Yeah, go on say it, Anna. Yeah, go on, go on.

The only thing I said there was you have a fear of dependency when you have a fear of abandonment. Yes, yes, agree. That's, so that's why I'm asking. Anna, does Jare have, Adda, come back, does Jair have a fair of abandonment and dependency? Yes. Interesting.

Does he have a fear of accepting poor treatment? Yes, because I think when somebody's done a lot of, and I'm speaking, me as well here, so when someone's done a lot of work on themselves, there's a fine line between going backwards and accepting treatment that you've had in the past that you're trying to recover from, so to speak. So I think that's where the first.

it comes in for that. Where does the fair come from? Does it come from previous relationships or does it come from childhood? Both. Very good. Because childhood leads into your previous relationship, surely.

That's how you make those choices. It's why we have mommy and daddy issues. Excellent. Okay. All right. So, are you happy now? All right.

I'm very happy. So what's the solution to that judgment then do you think? Do you judge people in terrible relationships? like let's say your friends and stuff like that who are in a bad relationship. Yeah. Consciously. Yeah. Yeah, you would. I think it's it's when you see

it's when you hear or see your friend like vocally talking about it not being good. And you wonder why that. But I've also been in a position where I've done that. Yes, of course. Because it's easier to see the, it's easy when you're not emotionally invested in the relationship, it's easier to see the clear path.

Exactly. So like I'm not going to say, I'm most certainly, it's, it's not just judgment. It's more, it's more compassion for a friend. You know, it's like, why are you leaving yourself? Like, I can understand why I've done it, but it's like you don't want to see that person in that position when you know how many great qualities they have. So yeah, it is an element of judgment. Because you just kind of, yeah, like you can, it's always easy to see it from the outside. I'd argue, I'd say the same, yeah, there's less, to start off with at least, less judgment, more interest in your friend's well-being. I think when a negative relationship impacts your relationship, like that person is clearly aware that the relationship's not good for them, they then become this different person that's a bit more toxic with you, they have these arguments with you, they bring up yeah they bring this negativity to the table and then maybe they break up with them and they're better again and then they go oh do you know what now I'm just going to go back to them and when there's that negativity towards you I think you're probably more inclined to bring that negative judgment of their decision making but I guess it depends on how good a friend you are with them like do you

have acceptance for that or is they aligned question for body is then would you judge your self more harshly for doing it than you would judge them. Oh, myself. Yeah. Yeah. What does that judgment say about your own values?

Well, I know a big piece for me working on is self-worth. So like, which branches out into people pleasing and, you know, respecting myself and all that. So it is the idea that like, I have done that before. And I do feel

bad that I didn't hold myself at a higher level that I could get myself out of situations like that or I allowed things to happen in the first place. You know, if myself worth at those different times and it's not like as it keeps growing, it does get that little bit easier. But you look back and you're like, geez, how awful did you think you were that you deserved any of this kind of treatment to allow it? And that's not just in romantic relationships. That's in lots of different relationships.

Family, friends, anything. So what would be the opposite of self-worth? Self-neglect, maybe? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Feelings of worthlessness or whatever. So do you think that that's the judgment?

So you're judging yourself for having, are you judging yourself for having low self? worth. Yes. And it's kind of funny like when you just thought there like you're you're essentially abandoning yourself. You're abandoning your inner

child. Yeah. That's the one like John. We were talking before. It was the negative feelings you're having now is that eight or 10 or 12 year old

self that doesn't fully know things have changed. That's who you're trying. to protect, that's the one who's screaming out when you have your negative self-talk or those moments of doubts and your self-worth. So when you're judging someone, let's say a friend for being in a toxic relationship, well, could you put the mirror up and say that what you're saying is that you're terrified of, you know, like having self-neglect for yourself and not have, or having low self-worth?

Yeah. Nailed it. Didn't I? I thought this was going to be a way lighter pod today. Oh, we were going to laugh and have fun. I didn't realize we're doing therapy Thursdays. I quite like it. All right, I'll give you, I'll give you another one.

I'll give you a, oh, actually this one, this one actually resonates with me. All right, so we'll go back to me. All right. Okay. All right. So you can't stand people who waste. their potential. Is it that you can't stand the people or is it that you can't stand the potential outcome?

Like it makes you uncomfortable knowing that outcome isn't reached? I think I can't stand both. Okay. What is it you feel about the people? That they're wasting their potential. Okay. That's obviously a negative outcome that they're wasting it. But what does that make you think about that person?

like why do you feel judgmental of that person? Like how does it make you feel about them? Well, it reflects a feeling that I would have about myself. Which would be that like terrified of wasting my own potential. Never reaching your true potential. Yeah, yeah. So which like I've probably I've had to accept

because I essentially did to a degree in many areas. But it's like you might have been like labeled like talented when you're younger or clever when you were younger or gifted and you were constantly told how much potentially you had

and then again achievements became part of your identity. Don't we all kind of resonate with this one though because we always see the best in the people around us that we care about and see how like we believe they could have more. I'm fairly sure

we've set here and attacked Rob on things we believe he can do. Yeah. Fucking months on end. Yeah, but you know like, all right, I'll give you an example, right? So I'll give you an example. So let's say I know someone in who growing up on my estate was like really, really gifted footballer. And you know

when like everyone had someone I was like, oh, he's going to make it as a footballer, he's going to make it in rugby or he's going to make it in basketball or he's going to be a musician or whatever it is. And then you see them like I don't know, out drinking and smoking weed or doing whatever they are, 14, 15, when they're, they're

like prime years. And it's like you're wasting your potential. And if that annoys you, it's because you see something in yourself, like wasted potential. Or they're terrified of doing that yourself because you have associated achievement and, you know, potential as part of your identity. But also potentially have a warped view of what achievement actually. actually is. Because from a young age,

especially the guys that I've hung out with and stuff, it is academic attainment and sporting achievement. There's not really huge focus on becoming a great partner, becoming a great friend. Obviously, all of those things are important, and I think we're aware of it. But the things that are celebrated and that we're given awards for and stuff are academic achievement

and sport. Exactly. And that's also what you're praised for when you achieve it. Yeah. And even, even which we don't need, well, we can get into it if you want,

but participation medals and things like that. Yeah, like there's, it gives a motivation to get engaged with it more. But it also then, it's a tricky one because it's important to get involved in activity. And I get that motivation. But it also then tries,

it value adds a value to sporting attainment and activity where it's where it's not added elsewhere I don't agree with participation

what does that say about what does that say about you do you think why do you judge why do you judge participation medals well like coming from a sporting

sporting background you either like you're one or you lost man. That was it. Like, you know, like,

we've, we've all played games where you've wanted to win, you've wanted to the cup, you want to, and they don't go, there's three, there's three people on a podium.

What's he researching there now while I'm about to say something? No, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Well, like, you know, we look at all,

like, the different, like, cup jerseys, medals for different sports and stuff I have at home, wouldn't have them. And I wouldn't have them.

And I wouldn't, wouldn't look at them the same as here's your medal for coming last in the run you did. But you took back, yes, you tried your best. And like that's the whole point. It is try your best, but you're not,

you're not a winner. Like, people have to lose. I would possibly even argue would I? Yeah, let's do it. Let's start the pot. I'd almost even argue against medals and trophies in general. Like, I get that they are

sounds like someone who doesn't win them no that's kind of what I was going to get to though like it's probably something to do with me being like I want to feel valued still even when I don't lose sorry even when I don't win but I don't want a trophy for that I just want communication I just want engagement with other peers like because sporting people that are like elite

as soon as they stop performing really well their views of themselves and from society dropped significantly and mental health has then impacted a lot. I was then going to say the one trophy that stands out to me that, like I loved getting top goal scorer because it was a competition with my mate,

but the one trophy that stands out to me that I can remember getting as players player and it's just, it's that teamwork aspect that we talked about at the start, it's the views of other people, but then it's the views of other people. Is that really a healthy thing to want to be competitive with? I want to be seen as good by other people.

I think like the players, player of the year and most improved player of the year or player of the year, that they do have their place. But if you take away medals in general, then we lose that competitive age. You stop seeing young kids develop into the athletes they are now for that hunger to want to win.

You do need it. What does it say? Put the mirror up to yourself. So if you're judging, let's say a kid gets a medal for participating in sport. Okay, you're judging the concept of that. But if you were to put a mirror up to yourself, what is that saying? I'm just sitting here judging 10-year-olds getting. Yeah, yeah.

But what are you? Like, we understand the concept of the exercise. So what are you judging in yourself? Well, my thing growing up would be you wouldn't get that praise without, reaching that level of achievement. My value depends on what I accomplish, would you say? Yeah.

So then what impact does that happen on? What impact does that have? Do you feel like you, do you feel like your self-worth is is almost earned true achievement? Yes and no,

not fully now before most certainly. Like when I dropped, when I dropped off rugby, it was a big drop for me. So do you feel that, like if you looked at that 10 year old kid who was getting a participation medal and was happy with that, and you're judging that,

do you think that brings up a feeling in you about unconditional self-worth? That they don't have. Unconditional love is the, I know that's a thing of mine. Ooh. Yeah. We're just openly telling people everything that I have going on.

See, it works. works every time though, doesn't it? Yeah. I'd love to see this map you're using on this screen. Share your screen there for a second. No, this is my magic. It's called Carl's Mirror. You know, nobody gets to see it but me.

Why do I see a serial killer-esque wall of papers up with all blended together? What's wrong with me? That's so strange because you've got that view. But I had a view of like, when you said Carl's Mirror, it was almost like Charlotte's Web. like there's this children's illustrated book that's called Carl's Mirror and it's to do with self-reflection as a child.

Like what does that say about both of us that you had that image? I went with serial killer. You went with a lovely kids book. All right, what time were we at two o'clock? All right, well look, listen, that was enjoyable. You know?

Thanks very much for... Thanks very much for participating. Free therapy. Did you just enjoy that? I did. We did. Do you feel more? enlightened after spending the hour with me.

It just reminded me of the old things I still need to work on. It made me, I think, so throughout the podcast, I've been thinking, I think it's great we're having this conversation because we're more aware of each other's thought process, but also people listening, if they are, hopefully, especially maybe men, I don't know, that aren't used to addressing these concerns. I think that is, that's popped up in my head a few times. It's like, it's great we're having this conversation because some people might hear it.

Yeah, and I'm going to try to be less rude and arrogant. I'm going to interrupt Rob Moore. All right, we'll leave it there. Next week we'll have a very, very, very special guest. I think her name is Anna or something like that. Anyway. Right, goodbye. Cheers, bye.