The Uneducated PT Podcast - Ep.172 She's In The Way | Karl, Ger & Rob

Episode Date: July 25, 2026

Dating apps have given us more choice than any generation in history — but have they actually changed who we choose?In this episode, Karl, Ger and Rob dive into the science of modern dating, attraction and relationships, looking at five fascinating studies that challenge some of our assumptions about how men and women behave.We explore why people still gravitate towards partners who are similar to themselves, despite having thousands of potential matches at their fingertips. The lads discuss whether dating apps have genuinely expanded our options or simply made it easier to find more versions of the same "type."We also get into sexual overperception bias — the finding that men are more likely to mistake friendliness for sexual interest — and what that means in a world of texts, DMs, emojis and dating apps where intentions can be even harder to read.Then there's the psychology of the dating profile itself. What are we actually trying to communicate with the photos we choose? Research suggests men looking for long-term relationships may use pictures with pets or children to signal that they're caring and capable of commitment — although apparently, posing with a cat might not have quite the effect you're hoping for.The conversation also challenges one of dating's oldest stereotypes: men want sex, women want relationships. Research into sociosexuality suggests individual attitudes towards casual sex may tell us far more about someone's dating behaviour than whether they're a man or a woman.Finally, we look at why people actually use Tinder. Is endless swiping about sex, finding a relationship, boredom or simply getting the little confidence boost that comes from somebody swiping right?Along the way, Karl, Ger and Rob get into their own experiences, preferences and opinions on modern relationships — and ask whether technology has really changed dating or simply exposed the psychology that was always underneath it.In this episode:• Why we keep dating people similar to ourselves• Whether dating apps have really increased our options• Why men can mistake friendliness for flirting• How texting and DMs create mixed signals• What your dating profile says about you• Why men post photos with dogs, cats and kids• Whether men and women actually want different things• Casual sex, commitment and sociosexuality• Tinder, sexual desire and self-esteem• Attraction versus compatibility• Whether dating algorithms influence who we fall for• How much of attraction is conscious choice• Why having more options might not make dating any easierFive studies. Three lads. And one big question: has modern dating actually changed human behaviour — or have we just put ancient instincts on an app?

of the place so far. Yeah, what is your perception so far? There's places I definitely don't want to live. Okay. And there's one that I've been to that's a nice little kind of villagey vibe, which seems pleasant, but almost like a family retired area. What are your, what are your, what are the important factors versus the not so important factors in regards to where you choose to live for your new career pursuit?

women. Gerald. Gerald. Let him say it himself. I mean, overall social aspect of Oh, very good. I would include that as a little sub-party.

That's okay. You're allowed to say. You're allowed. Yeah. Like lifestyle progression in all ways. Like I would like this phase of my life to be growing in different ways. So like, yeah, relationship-wise, it's important to have people around that I could potentially date.

Is there a nice pub with a beer garden? There is, the place that I've just been to has a nice pub. I don't know if it's got a beer garden, but they have like chairs out with front on the side of the road. In regards to, let's say, in regards to,

let's say your age group, your category, if you want to like make new friends and also, let's say, platonic and romantic relationships as well as career progress. What do you think needs to be in that area in terms of it be a place

where you're most likely going to meet them types of social connections? Jim's, a couple of pubs, cafe is maybe like a climbing centre, just anywhere that's kind of potentially got those social hubs that I know work for me. I think it's just a pub

a small cafe and a green I think that's not going to be enough it'll be nice pleasant but and is there gyms in one of the areas I'm going to look at in a bit today after this yes there is a decent functional fitness gym it's just expensive around that area

what about pottery yeah I'd do that it's not up there on my list of important things well maybe maybe maybe it's time that you looked in different places to where you're looking? Yeah, no, you're right. Is he not looking everywhere? Pottery, I know, I feel, I feel this, I could be wrong, I could be wrong, but I feel

that if a place has pottery classes, dance classes, a place where you can go and like do art, you know fully well when you say those things out loud. you're not wrong. I think that's a place. I think that's a place that is, it's probably a vibrant suburb or city where

you know people of a certain standard are going to be going to to flock and socialise. Well, now, it's 50-50. What I'm saying it is. What you've listed could be a bunch of

young, attractive, smart women or a load of retirees. Yes, very true. Very true. That is very true. It goes either way. But what I'm saying is, especially in the UK,

I assume there's a lot of towns that are just filled with pubs, bookies and strip clubs or whatever. And, or, you know, not upper class ones either. So I would imagine, like, they're, you know. Dirty ones.

I'd imagine that's not the type of area that you want to spend your time in, without sounding very classist. No, it's not. You want pottery classes, Robert. Yeah, effectively. But if you do pottery classes around like a small village or a small suburb, I feel like that's going to typically be full of people that are older. That's all right.

That's all right. You might need an older woman. No, it's not all right, Gerald. It's not all right. We need the type of pottery classes that are for a vibrant social town for Robert. Right, the drinking pottery sessions that people can do. Yeah, well. I just imagine you going to a retirees pottery class with a nagging of vodka.

I feel like that drinking culture is on the, is on the is on the downward trajectory. I don't think so I think I think going to the pub like a couple of nights each week

with nothing on is fucking declining but I think when there's things on like matches what as in wearing no clothes that's never been over Is that not how you go to the pub

that's what I've been doing on sir put on your jokes so what do we need to have ticked off in order because this is a very good conversation for anyone who's moving to a new city because they want to you know meet new people which is actually a lot of people um yeah so you need to have somewhere where it's obviously a high a high social town i think so so driving around today it's kind of put me in doubt in a few different ways

like some way i don't know just i think it's more avoidance anxiety like just being like i don't don't know where I want to be and this is confirming I don't like that area. I'm not sure about this area. Why don't you use AI to create a structure where it has like the crime rates of each town and the population of each town and put in all the factors that are important to you in terms of your values, the amount of gyms in that town and then then then decide. Yeah, yeah. Well, I kind of did roughly do that. and there are three or four places that I want to make sure

I kind of check out. I've already lived in one of them up in Newcastle and I know I like that. Would another one not be somewhere where there's universities? So Newcastle has two unies and that's where I'll be based with one of my with the studying that I'll be doing alongside the training. How far away would you be living from the city or where the uni is there?

So my job is, is going to be like an hour away from Newcastle. Okay. But I think Middlesbrough, I think Middlesbrough has a uni. I think Teaside University is a thing. Why do you ask about that? It's an interesting one because a city,

living in the city can go two ways, can't it? It can be like a really isolating place or it can be a really social place. Yeah. It can also get too social. It goes that there's always like, I always look at the, when I lived in Dublin,

and there was always something on. Yeah. You like, it's a very easy trap to fall into, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday just keeps you ticking over until you get to the weekend. All right. We don't need to talk about your relationship with alcohol, Gerald. Yes, let's say alcohol. Now, come here.

So, would that not be good for Rob? Because he's lived in a very kind of, you know, a country place. So to go back to city life. I'd be going, if you have to try to get an in-between where you're going to be most of the time for work, and then I'd be going 15, 20 minutes outside of Newcastle towards where you're going to work. So then you'd have like a 35, 40 minutes

commute to work. Doesn't sound fucking ideal but you're better off being closer to a city you'll like than smack bang in the middle of fucking nowhere and not having a mixture of anything. Yeah, well there is a place called, there is a place called Durham. Sorry, I don't know if you can hear that horn.

It's a good. Yeah, there's a place called Durham that's partway between it. It's not quite halfway. It looks like it is, but it's because you've got to pull off the main road. It obviously adds time on. And is it half an hour away from the city? Yeah. You could hop on the train and you're there in 20 minutes.

The uni is there, isn't it? There's a uni in Durham. There's a union in Newcastle, yeah. I've decided we're moving to Durham. We're going Durham. What's the crime rate like in Durham? It'll depend where you are. it's it's generally quite a well-to-do city yeah we want a little bit of you want a little bit of mischief

no we don't we don't all right okay I think I'm sorry do I want to be in the city or do I want to be in a little pocket it's a great question like I'm not in it like I'm not in Dublin city center I'm outside it in a seaside town and I think that's just perfect I can commute into town when I want but at the same time you don't it's not the same as being on the hustle bustle of the city center where everything's on your doorstep even though i am only half an hour away but bray has everything you need in on an offset of that anyway it's very community based uh there's you can see you still have access to city center when you need it but it's not the same as living the city center i'm i'm what 15 20 minutes out of the city i don't have the sea which is my only fucking issue being

here but i don't want neighbors that close to me i like going in the city. I like my mischief inside there, but I like that no one is that close to me. But do you think he'd be more social than the city than in the suburb? I'm already sociable enough now, Carol. I don't need any fucking help anymore. Go for Rob.

Don't drop the G word on the podcast or record. Oh my God. What did I say? Killed. No, ignore. Just ignore. Ignore. No, just ignore. No, Rob. Okay. Right. Well, let's move on from Rob's social life and with their social life and we'll go straight into what we're going to talk about today

which actually ties in pretty much to what we're just talking about especially in terms of rob having a romantic relationship in the city center in newcastle on top of his new career path and everything being on an upward trajectory so we're going to talk about let's just make it clear the relationship's not there yeah no it's not there yet but it's it's you're you can only things can only happen if you make things happen. You've got to manifest it, Rob. Yeah. You got to manifest it.

You got to break shit up, Rob. I'm going to journal it. Yeah, you can journal it or you can just get out and do the new things. Yeah, or you can just meet people. Yeah, yeah. You can just go out to, and you can just do a pottery class. Like, just do a pottery class. I'm telling you, I need to do a pottery class.

I think I'll do a pottery class. If someone asks you to do a pottery class. No, it just keeps coming up on my Instagram. So now I'm like, it's all about pottery. That's because you keep watching that girl. that pops up on the internet it's just like this with the fucking piece

and the ceramics oh mine mine's a baking thing there's a baking thing that keeps coming up in Bristol that would be a good one to do I feel

that's Bristol I feel I'm sure there's bakery classes in Newcastle yeah in Geordyland that's what I was about

the same with Jordyland I didn't even mean that apologies to all the journeys that's a good it's a good phrase I think

but you know what you know what I think it's important especially when you get old to try new things. And I feel like I do the same things all the time. And I feel like when you're dead, you should say that you did a pottery class

and maybe a salsa dancing class. Maybe. You can say me something dead. Maybe some like a cooking course or something like that. You know what I mean? Like you don't know what you like until you try it. I've done a Batchata class like salsa. That would be.

Did you do that in a home or when you're away? I did that at home. I did inside in Limerick. That is hilarious. Yeah? You just, yeah, no,

I'm not gonna get into it. I'd say, well, and explain a friendly place. Well, like, you know how like, salsa dancing is like,

right up close and personal. Yeah, love it. Yeah. So, like, I went with someone and then they were like, right now,

let's swap around with different people. And I was like, well, this is, this is weird now. Wait, so what?

Oh, so you're dancing of one person and then you just go on to the next. Well, yeah, they tell you to swap. They'll swap around.

and I was like, well, I came here to dance with one person, not to dance with loads of you. Oh, it's one of them parties where you put your keys in the bowl. In a giant bowl. You're hand of a bottle of Johnson's. And you're just grinding up on anyone that comes near you. Anything that moves. Yeah. That sounds right up my street.

You know what? I know we're making them sort of jokes. But also at the same time, that doing some sester classes was actually really good for my confidence development. because you get told, go up to anyone, and if you ask them to dance, they will. Or if they don't, they're just, they're knackered. And like, the amount of acceptance you get from just going up to people and going, would you like, do you want to, like, dance and just be like, I'm crap,

but it would be good to get some practice. And if they're good, if they're, like, regulars, they're like, oh, yeah, let's, I'll teach you some things. Like, you want to do that? And it just, yeah, your confidence from approaching people, that you might take out of that. Sounds like you, sounds like you go to a lot of beginners classes pretending not to be any good at dancing.

I love Salcedon. Next topic. Salz, you're, I think you're absolutely right, Rob. I think it gives people confidence. You're,

you feel awkward at the start. I did it in Columbia and it was the best experience ever. My teacher was this beautiful black Colombian woman and her hips could move and I'll never forget her. anyway maybe we should be a vaude you need a minute maybe i should maybe i should maybe i should take that part of the podcast thanks a few years i probably would yeah all right so we're going to go on to date and dynamics which is our second favorite topic around after social connection and i've picked out

five studies uh on evolution evolutionary psychology on modern dating um and dating apps and I'm going to go through to the five studies which is and then you're going to give me your thoughts does that sound fair yeah what do you eat beef jacky you didn't sound like you weren't very enthusiastic what you said well i got distracted by what he could be eating you're like yeah okay so the first study is called assortative mating on dating apps this was in 2022 so using a mock dating app researchers found a support for assertive mating in terms of education and ethnicity, showing these patterns persist even in a swipe-based digital context. A follow-up study extended to this to personality traits, finding the same like,

attracts like pattern. What that basically means is even with thousands of potential matches at our fingertips through dating apps, people still end up en masse as choosing partners who are similar to them, both in education level, a same ethnicity background. And then my question for use then is, do you have, when you did use dating apps, or if you're still used, did you have a certain type when you were swiping, maybe consciously or subconsciously?

Because even with a wide variety and range of different people on dating apps, the research tends to. to suggest that we still go to people similar to ourselves, both in ethnicity and education? No, it was an attraction base. Like, it wasn't whether, it wasn't whether there were a certain level of education or what ethnicity was, it was whether I was attracted to them or not.

And then personality-wise, if you could actually talk to them, because sadly, at different times, my brain would still want to be able to talk to the person. Ew. Yeah, I know. Yeah. But do you not think your attraction is based on similarities to yourself or to, let's say, your family values or... But you won't get to know that until you talk to a person really, like, like, depends on the app, like, what level of detail.

But like, like, let's say Tinder, it's photos and someone puts in some bio. They're rarely going, these are my family values. True, true, true. I'm going to side with the information there from research slightly. Okay, go ahead. For me, I think for me, I think because there's a little bit of anxiety around dating, looking for more familiarity and certainty is something that I probably would project into dating on apps,

because you're not getting that face-to-face experience with them to begin with. You don't know what their interests are exactly like you've said, JET. So I think to reduce the risk of incompatibility, you potentially tend to go for people that you think, oh, they look like they might enjoy the same things that I enjoy. Yeah. They might have this particular hair color or stature that I'm used to dating

and I knew that I enjoyed dating them back then or whatever. Yeah, so I think familiarity, in online dating can help with reducing that anxiety. Yeah, I think so. Would you date outside of your type? Now, I understand, like, people say that they don't have a type, but I don't believe that's true. I just believe that when you're saying you don't have a type,

you're talking about kind of, you don't care about surface level things, but you still have a type. Like, a type can be someone's personality, or someone's values or whatever it is, how people behave. Usually when people ask about a type,

they mean surface level. It's usually the way that question is asked. It's how they look, height, hair colour, anything like that. That's normally what that question is reserved for. So like if someone asked me, I would say I don't have a type based on that. Then it's whether personality clicks or not.

Because someone could be exactly, your physical type and you could talk to them for 10 minutes and be like, oh sweet Jesus, I need to get out of here. What about you, Ron? That's as much as I have to say, well. What was the specific question again? Oh, the specific question was

would you date outside of your type, whatever your perceived type is? Oh, I'd love a kind of monster now, Jare. That's like four in the fridge, the mango one, man, it's the business. I've got a spare here. That one in Australia and New Zealand, though, the purple one,

was just... Oh, the purple, yeah. The violet one. I don't know. We can't find it around here anymore. We have purple and bray. You have purple and bray. Buy me a case, I'll be up to collect us.

Yeah, we do. We do. I get it all the time, the purple one. I've not seen it here. Is that the new purple one? I'm not sure. The old one that's just... I'll get it.

I'll get it today and I'll show you. Rob, do you... Would you date outside of your type? Um, I think it depends on what, yeah, like we were just discussing the definition of type in terms of physical type,

yes, in terms of what I think my personality type is. Yes, but with caution, I think is my response. Because I clearly don't know what my type is just yet

because... What's your go-to personality type then? I'd want someone that was relatively active but not too active because I'm lazy at the same time. But I like some... Yeah, I like to move.

You want to fit this girl? I don't know. Don't know. Because that can be many different things. It could be someone that wants to look after their health. It could be someone that's obsessed with high-rocks, triathlons, marathons. And I don't think that would suit my lifestyle. Not that their personality wouldn't be great, but I'm also not very good with the obsessive personality traits

in terms of I need to be doing this, I need to eat this, I need to live life like this, bed by this time. Like I need someone with a bit of adaptability. Not that I have any negative judgment for those people, but my lifestyle just wouldn't fit with that, I don't think. Would you not like their commitment? Oh, I'd find it attractive for sure, and I'd like the commitment style of things, yeah, especially if it translates into relationships, if that's what you can get in that.

But, I don't know, I think, oh, yeah, maybe that's why. I don't like it because commitment scares me actually. I'm going to put that last little statement. They're too committed. They're too committed to one thing. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think that it definitely,

that study definitely represents me because I feel like for me to be in a relationship with someone like there has to be certain criteria that get picked off, I would probably want. Yeah, sorry. Sorry, go ahead. I'll tell you now.

So I would say, probably like they don't have to be it's not a deal breaker but I probably want them to be Irish just from a geographical standpoint I just I want I'm racist I just want to live in Ireland all right I want it I'm thinking about where I would be settling down yeah I think also having that cultural similarity the background yes some people see it as racist but actually I'm talking to yeah I know I know we know we know you're we know we know you're joking yeah I just explained how I how I fancy my black Colombian dance teacher.

Throwing us off the scent. Well, yeah, yeah. But I would never, you know, get into relationship with her because I'd have to live in Colombia. And, you know, it's just, we probably have different cultural values and it just wouldn't work.

So I should probably drop her a text and make sure she knows that, by the other. Yeah, yeah. Just in case you didn't listen to this episode of the pod. Yeah. So, like, there's that, that they're Irish, probably even from a certain location.

What if they're not from Ireland? but they want to settle down in Ireland. That's fine as well. I'm not saying, I'm using like broad. Yeah, yeah. But obviously, there's always exceptions to the real.

Yeah. You know what I mean? But I'd say my brain, the algorithm in my brain is computing to make sure that they're probably Irish. They don't have to be religious, but maybe they're Christian because I would want my kids to be brought up Catholic.

I would want them to look after their health in some degree. So if they played sport or, you know, we're into the gym or running or whatever it is. They run marathons with you. No, no. They just have to, like you said,

Rob, they don't have to be obsessive about these things. But I don't feel that I would work in a relationship with someone who is, if I'm going to the gym or I'm going to train and then they're saying that, what are you doing after the gym or something? Or like, they're trying to, they're trying to take that away from me.

They're trying to take me looking after my health away from me. It's not that they're doing it consciously, but true a conflict of lifestyles it's not conducive to the way that I would want to. Like, as Rob said, like,

I'd be similar enough. I can be quite fucking lazy even though I enjoy doing activity. Yeah. It's being with someone that like, on those days where I'm like, oh, I don't want to do it. Well, come on, we'll go do this

and then we'll go do something fun. Yeah. That's what I want. Not the person who lean into my laziness. Yeah, yeah. I love being lazy as well, but I like being lazy after I've done stuff. Yeah.

I generally feel better being lazy after. Yeah, exactly. I like to be lazy sometimes, just not all the time. And like, it's not even that they're lazy. It's just that it's just, I'd want them to have their own thing, if that makes sense. And I would also want someone who wants to have children as well. So I think they would be kind of four big things that probably narrows my perception of. And also education-wise, I would want someone who,

They don't have to be like high level education or anything like that. I'm not that, but I wouldn't, I would want someone who like, I don't know. You demonstrate, I don't want to compliment you on the podcast necessarily, but even though you're, so you are the uneducated PT and like you maybe don't have the qualification, some people might have, you've educated yourself outside of the education system. It's a first for learning, like knowledge. That level of intellect and the knowledge there and the ability to apply it. And I think that is what having further and higher education certificates kind of suggests that you can do that.

So that's kind of why I think people look for that level of education. But actually if you meet someone that's actually able to vocalize what they're thinking and have a grown-up communication with you, then that's when that requirement of that qualification kind of goes away. It's more of like a surface level thing. Exactly. Yeah. I think it suggests under, it underlines the suggestion that, oh,

I'm going to be able to have a conversation with you, with you about certain topics or perspectives that I find interesting. Like, it's the reason that we do the podcast, right? It's because you want to have interesting conversations about things that you might not have with other people. Jay's just nodding this head like that.

No, I'm just here because I'm here. I was forced to be here. I have a gap. I have a gap these two hours. I'm just here to drink my monster I yeah well also then like someone that makes you laugh and I think that's a huge that's like for me that's a huge one

like I have to actually give me like absolute sore belly laughs I need that but that's a hard one to preface true like let's say you're using a dating app and you're oh yeah so like back using dating apps mine was always getting to a date quickly. Oh, this is a really good, that's a really good, um, segue. Yeah. So you, so when you say someone who makes me laugh, right? When you say someone who makes me laugh, I find that really important as

well. And I feel that not all the time, but a lot of the time, if you're going and dating someone from, let's say, a different culture or with a different, with a language barrier, that communication of humor ends up getting lost, which can be kind of hard to deal with. way. Yeah. No, you're right. You are right because you just spend all your time explaining jokes. Exactly. Exactly. And so, and I think that's when you, when you come from somewhere in the, the same type of culture, community, even kind of accents, like the way of use and language, it's easier to, with that dialect of humor as well. Yeah. But then you can also then argue the other side of, um, experiencing someone else's culture.

Yeah, 100%. You know? That it's not the same, the exact same upbringing, the exact same things you did as young, you learn new things about food, everything, music, the whole shabang. Yeah, no, it's like, there's definitely,

there is definitely that area of people who, like there's loads of people that will date outside of their cultural norms. And, but I don't think, I think that's the exception to the real, not the real. And will the data suggests that it's not the real? But that doesn't mean that there isn't millions of people

who day people from different countries and different ethnicities and have great relationships. Yeah, it's just a general, it's the comfort level, isn't it? Yeah. Like with our activity, we were talking about activity and stuff. Yes, we enjoy going to the gym,

but all three of us have different levels of activity that we enjoy. So technically that could translate into our cultural differences. so like I other obvious reasons I could never date either of you to because what um how fucking dare you you'd be fucking lucky man I know I completely agree like in terms of personality and who you both are as people whoever ends up with you or what's happening it's we're operating up with us or is he trying to date us is this becoming a trouble or is he

leaving I don't know what's going on it's not it's not you guys it's me Okay, well, like, we have different activity levels. So my comfort level is different to both of yours, probably. Mine might be a little bit closer to Jers, potentially, but they're still going to be slightly different, purely just because of what we said before. But that reduces an aspect of comfort for me. And I think when people have different cultural backgrounds,

I don't think I'm hoping most of the time it doesn't come from a place of prejudice it comes from a place of seeking that comfort and security and what you know already with the whole activity level because we're all into that

so it's an easier one to fucking talk about you could use us being in Bali as a great example Carl would be on the higher level of going off and doing classes like fucking yeah whatever's going on your head like so like I like being with someone

that's that level because there are days where I can go do it but I also have a fucking committee upstairs that's going to make me stay in a couch for hours on end and then later on in the day I'm going to do the thing I could have done in the morning that would have made me feel better all day

and I had that today with a workout putting it off and I just finished it there I feel so much better than I did this morning but maybe actually me and you Joe would be better off with someone like Carl because otherwise me and you were just going to go into a downward spiral on the social. I got you. I'd be so good to you care. So I so when you're putting in your dating apps with the type of person you're looking for you just have to be female version of Carl. Look up carl or work just please be a woman. All right we'll go on to number two.

So the next study that I found was the sexual over perception bias. So this study found that Men misread friendliness as sexual interest more often than women do, a bias that plays out constantly in DM and dating up miscommunication. So men are more likely than women to assume a woman is romantically interested, even when she's just being friendly. So a lot of mixed signals may just be one person misreading the misreading normal kindness as flirting. There's like two sides to that, isn't it? Go ahead.

It's like men aren't aware. You know, like they're not aware that someone just like talking to you and being interested in you isn't them being interested in a romantic way. But at the same time, loads of men are not used to women being interested in them in that level. So it's hard to read as well if they are interested in you. It goes the opposite way as well, because I was only talking to someone about this recently, that being nice and polite and friendly to women can also come across as your interested. in them romantically when you could just be having a conversation. I don't think it's just one gender that has that. I think it depends on the person.

What do you think, Rob? I think it's probably more commonly evidenced in men because, and I'm stereotyping here, women potentially talk about it more with their friends when a guy does that. whereas and it becomes, I don't know, actually, maybe not, because I think we would probably do that if, but we would probably only do it if we were interested in that person.

But do you ever take, like, if a girl smiles at you or she's just really friendly, then you're walking pot. Like, you obviously don't act on it because we're, we're scared. Oh, yeah. Because you're terrified. We're terrified of women. I think men in general, like, there is, after the Me Too movement, like, most men are, like, terrified to go up to women anyway,

except for the hyper sexual like psychopaths who just go up to everyone and anyone and then they're the they're their perception of all men even though it's just like a small percentage of men who are doing all the damage but i feel like men still like if if you're having a conversation with someone and she's really friendly like it's uh you know someone's making your coffee and she smiles at you and you're walked back in your earlier head is oh does she like me or is it just in my head and you just you're just walk off thinking about that i think that's i think that's my men were just terrified to act on that impulse because of... That was like the two of E in Bali.

Let's not bring everything into like personal experience, all right? I think that's we should always relate it to personal experience. They're the real stats. Okay, well then I'll ask you, Chair, I'll ask you, have you misread friendliness as interest ever? Yes. You do. 100%. Yeah, I'm not afraid to drop myself under the bus.

That's fine. And do you feel that has a woman ever misread your friendliness as interest? Yeah. Look at Brad Pitt over there. Well, like, I'm a friendly person. Yeah. You know? So, like, and I'll talk to people.

I also just, I don't, like, flirt, I don't know, flirting is just, it's not that it's weird. It's more of a, I'll just naturally talk to someone. because you'll get to know them. The flirty part generally comes later. You know, when you actually get to know. So, because you can't, like, there's, there's some lads think they're flirting,

you're there listening and it's like, oh, Jesus Christ, I'd run away from you and I know you for years. Like, you know, that kind of way. But then, like, I've also been in situations where you thought someone was interested and then they tell you they're not interested and then they're interested later. That's interesting.

Yeah. we go into like avoidance and all that stuff as well so like do you think that's because they were initially interested and they were avoiding it or do you think it's because they had their guard up in the moment they weren't actually interested but they didn't let themselves become interested because of where they were and then later down the line they thought that oh nothing that happened in that situation now that I'm thinking

about it they did this they did this they did this oh quite like them potentially Also, I think, games. I think when, yes, yeah, it could be games.

But also sometimes, like, I think once you know somebody fancies you, then you start to think about it a little bit more and that way, you probably just need the time to think about it. And then,

but anyway, that goes off the point. The point is, Rob, have you ever misread friendliness for flirting or for interest? Oh, definitely. With the two of us.

Yeah. I, do you think text it makes that worse? yeah yeah because some people don't use emojis at all and then when they do it means like it means something some people use the same emojis all the time and they're desensitized to them they don't mean anything at all some people just i'm an emoji slow i bet you are yeah yeah i think yeah it's just everyone's got their it's what you're doing today's sticky old face it's just what you used to. Like around where you grow up, you're probably more likely to see

the same kind of trends. You might understand it a little bit more, but then when you start communicating with people from different places. So do you think that tone gets lost in the DMs and messages more in men than women? I reckon men,

and obviously don't quote me on this and date me and stuff, but I reckon men are more likely to see interactions as positive. Yeah. Otherwise, they'll see them as neutral, whereas potentially women are more likely to see it as neutral,

sorry, as a negative thing. Yeah. Or neutral. Well, that would that would align with that research. I think. Unless you're norrospicy as fucking you overthink every message and someone sends you caplocs or puts

in an exclamation point and you they're freaking out. Does that happen? Well, it does to me at times. I've gotten better at that. If someone put in a couple of exclamation points or put it all in caplocs, I'm like, why are you shouting at me?

Yeah, well, that's fair. I don't think there's any reason for full capital letters to be fair. I used to be similar where I just don't ever read everything, but then having seen people like whether I've been hanging out with you guys or other people and seeing them

in the mood that they're in and how they're verbalising what they're writing versus what's actually written in the text. When I see it sent off, I'm like, if I receive that message,

I would assume this person was in a really bad mood or just couldn't be bothered to talk to me, but actually I've seen the people going, oh, it's really nice that I've heard from this person, I'm going to send this text back.

And it just comes across. So I tend to try and avoid assuming what is meant and just try and continue a conversation and see what. what happens if that makes sense but I used to be I used to be like that Joe where I'd read it

and I'd go they probably mean this oh no they hate me they're going to tell everyone to not be well I'm sadly now going down the other side where I don't care anymore yeah that could be honest I'm going to say whatever I want yeah well so we know so we

so we agree with that study in broader context that we feel that men misread the room more yeah Yeah. Generally speaking, probably. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Third study is dependence. I've also never been a woman though, so I don't know for certain. Fair, fair, fair. Yeah. Just because we can only speak about our own experience. Yeah.

Dependence has made value signals. So men, this is, I love this one. So men, took pictures with men who took pictures with cats were rated as less datable by women and study while a separate analysis of real dating profile profiles found men seeking long-term relationships were more likely to display dependence like children or pets as a signal of their capacity to invest in a partner. Women didn't show the same pattern. So in layman's terms, men looking for something serious often post photos of kids or pets to show I can take care of someone. Women don't do this as much, but the cat photos backfired for men.

I understand that. Okay, why do you understand that? Explain. Fucking cats are weird, man. Like, one of the lads is turned into a cat man. They have a cat in the house. He's recently talking about a dog

and I was just like, don't bother man, you're a cat person now. And is he in a relationship? Yeah. Well, there's a matter then, does it? Well, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's married and living in a house.

Exactly. So I can't say anything. Yeah, but the cat thing didn't happen until later. Yeah. But do you think he would have got in that relationship if he was posting pictures of him as cat before that? Probably not, man. So is the studies suggested in the pictures of you

and your cat gives girls the ick? Would you imagine me sitting in an armchair here holding my cat and putting... Mr. Burns. Would you like to come on a date with me? And what I also thought was interesting that men will display like pictures of like children. Somebody might be their nephew or their niece or their friends, kids or a pet to signal that, you know, they are, they can look after a family. Yeah, I don't like that.

Your own, your own pet is fine. In what way do you not like that, Rob? I just, I wouldn't post stuff about, I think I shared a story a little while back when I came back from New Zealand, I think it was a screenshot of my screensaber and my nieces were on it. And that's the only thing I've shared of kids in the family on social media. And I regret putting that up partly because I don't know, I just, there's a sensitivity around kids on the internet. And I think a dating app isn't a place for those kids.

Maybe the kid with like a blurred out face or an emoji over the face or something. I don't want to don't understand with the emoji of the blurred out face if you're doing that why don't you just not put the photo up because then it shows evidence of you with a kid but it's you also yeah but I'm going to blur out their face but maybe that looks like your safeguarding the kid

I don't know I just I feel like it's a safeguarding concern for me well I used to always post pictures of my nephew niece but then I someone showed me a it was a research study or just like a full documentary of like just basically all the child pornographer kind of people on the internet and how they can use pictures of kids and then put them into AI and essentially yeah that's why I

just that's why I just wouldn't put up any anything then yeah yeah it's just not a safe place for kids anymore well I understand the performative of I understand the subconscious performative nature of you know, someone putting up a picture with kids to to prove to a partner or potential partner that they are dependable. Yeah, or like John, or using a smiling dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at me. I'm very loving to pets. You, I look how.

You will be safe around me. Yeah. What? Look how happy is when I pet him. Look, I'm not even holding him down. He's here by his own free will. it's true though my brain

yeah what do you think Rob I've just realised on hinge I actually do have me with a dog um

do you own the dog now it's my friend's dog that I've but you know what I think this this is the whole point of evolutionary psychology it's like

it's things that's ingrained with you ingrained in you that you don't even realize you're doing that like science can just explain. Yeah, but he's putting

up a picture with someone else's dog. Yeah, but it still counts. He knows well what he's doing. He's performing to the audience that he is a safe man to be around because pets like him. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying he knows

what he's doing. It's also partly previously I've posted a picture of me with a dog on social media and it got probably the most likes that any posts of the dog has. So then I've used it on a dating app, it's like years and years ago. And it got quite a few responses to it. So now I'm just like, okay, all I've just,

so there's a very loud thing in the background. I've just associated, oh, dog photo likes. Exactly. Oh yeah, dog content is always good. I'm just saying, I'm just saying. Do you trust profile photos as honesty, do you think? I heard some of profile. say dishonest.

Now, do you trust profile photos as honest? Just in general. Like, do when you, let's say, when you're looking on an Instagram profile, let's say you end up following a girl that you just met or something, and then you can, you see your profile photo. Like, does it suggest to you that this is a person who I can trust, that I like, who I can potentially day? What if there's a dog there?

No, just in general. I think not that I've got much experience of it but through experience those people that you look at their profiles and think they look like a nice person but I'm not blown away and to actually in person be the more attractive people

than those that you see if we're just talking physically than those that you look on the app and think wow they're stunning generally speaking I think those people you kind of meet in person and you go there was a lot of filter

but it's still good looking but a lot of filters going on there and I don't necessarily trust as much like you were just saying whereas if you if you see someone that looked real and that hasn't kind of taken ages to pose the pictures and things like that I think they tend to feel a bit more

trustworthy. What do you think? It just made me think of what one of the lads you say years ago was like and pick the one that the next day after a night out wearing a track suit in a hoodie you're attracted to

not the 100 photos because we do it sometimes as well when we're doing different things you'll take a photo and then we're like right well that one out of the five is the best one yeah perfect lighting all that stuff that's the photo you're going to post so like it's hard

to base it off Instagram and even dating apps when you're looking at photos you won't know until you meet the person person yeah because even even in that even in that if you're looking through a profile and you feel like, oh, this person's casual, this person's natural, this person's is low maintenance,

they're still trying to perform that, to show that off online. I think I was talking to someone about it, and my therapist was like, I come across as nonchalant, but I'm shalant as fuck. Do you know what I heard the other day and I thought you would really like this?

It's like the one thing a therapist doesn't want to hear after an endless session, which you're finishing up is, thanks for all the sessions. I just want to know one question, do you like me? brilliant I thought that's really good

because like just you know I'm still desperate for your validation I'm fixed but can I just get confirmation as long as you're

the one person that likes me yeah yeah like it is true though because it's like it's so funny because I suppose after all your therapy sessions

to your post it shouldn't matter but it still matters like Just want to check in there to see, do you like me still? I'm going to have to find that and send that to my therapist. Use that one, yeah, yeah. All right, study number four, sociosexuality as a better predictor than sex.

So this is from Deaf Fisher and Walrave. So the study argues that sex differences in online dating strategy are often overstated. A person's socio-sexual orientation, their openness to casual sex predicts their dating behavior better than their sex does. So the old idea that men want sex, women want commitment doesn't actually hold up well in this study. What predicts someone's dating behavior isn't their gender. It's how open they personally are to casual relationships.

Yeah, there was something I saw the other, I don't know if it was a Bruce Williamson podcast, it probably was. But it was, I think it was with that, is it Dr. Rachel something? to do with relationship stuff anyway. And there were a couple of predictors. It might have been Mival actually. There were a couple of predictors that was openness to experience.

A couple of others, basically, that suggested a bit of transience and like wanting more from different experiences. I think those people tended to be less likely to commit to relationships, or they provide less stability or more turbulence in relationships. because they're always like, what about that? What about that? And they're more likely to cheat as well because they've got that kind of, but I kind of want to experience something new.

And this isn't giving me it. I could see that. If you, like, I would imagine people who are bisexual are, their likelihood of cheating is probably increased. I guess it means that, yeah, 100% of the population. is a potential part.

That's true. That's very true. I didn't even believe it like that. They're openness for a kind of, they're more open-minded. I think there's got to be a few different factors to consider. So there's open-mindedness, which by itself doesn't necessarily mean that.

But then there's, there are a couple of others, but I can't remember what it was. One was to do with risk, like openness to risk and things like that as well. openness to new experiences and openness to risk won't always mean a higher likelihood of cheating I would imagine

risk taking is a trait of people who are you know chronic cheaters yeah but like you definitely take risks for doing stuff yeah I'm not saying everyone but I imagine it is a trait within

that. Both of us would. Rob, I don't know. Would what? Less inclined to take risks. Less risk averse. I think I'm scared of the risks but I'll probably do it eventually. Not the cheating, but I quite like I like change.

Let's clarify that. None of us are talking about cheating. We're talking about just doing risky things. Yes. Yeah. I do like it. I think risk. cheating um

going to just clip that and put it on in scrap of rob saying that he wants to cheat no please don't yeah I like I like the change but I think I've also learned over the last couple of years that that constant change

is exhausting as well so like stability helps to actually appreciate what the changes are when they happen like if you put it into layman's terms like if you're swiping on a on a let's say you're on Tinder or whatever and you're swiping and someone has in their captioned that open to a casual relationship and then the next person has, you know, looking to settle down and have kids and get married. I think it's

pretty conclusive that the first person has a higher likelihood of cheating on you than the second person. No, I know it's, I know it's not definitive. You actually have to get to know the person and, you know, not everyone, not what, not what people say is how they, you know. Or the first one subconscious is you about to trap you? yeah maybe maybe maybe you don't know you don't you don't you don't you don't know but I would imagine like on you know a big pills of day day if someone is more open to casual relationships there and more more openness in regards to that there probably is a more likelihood of of them I think it depends when in your life well it does depend when in your life you meet as well so

I think if if you were ready to settle down and you met someone that was open to casual relationships and you started dating at that point. I think because there's a crossover in those periods of time, even if that person then realizes, I do not, I really want to be with this person. Sometimes the intent that you go in with influences the relationship you're actually in. And then the person who was looking for the commitment might then be like,

I'm a bit insecure because actually when you were open to this, I know you were seeing this person, this person, this person. No judgment, but I feel a bit insecure, because why wasn't I good enough in the first place, that and that. But if the two same people meet at the same time and they go, even though they're completely the same person, they meet and they're like, right, I want something serious. 100%.

We just want to make sure we get into know each other. It sets up for a very different relationship. Like I'm more open. I would have been more open to casual relationships in my early 20s and I'm not open to casual relationships in my early 30s. Same person, different time period, different intentions. Yeah. Okay.

Last one. Tinder used desire and self-esteem. So this was a 2025 study. A recent study of 18 to 30-year-olds found gender differences in why people use Tinder and that usage pattern were linked to sexual desires but not self-esteem, challenging the popular assumption that swiping is mainly an ego validation exercise. So in plain English, men and women use Tinder for different reasons, but usage tracks with sex drive, not with insecurity. It also says sex drive and connection, not with insecurity.

So the idea that people swipe to feel better about themselves isn't well supported. I think the active swiping is it's kind of window shopping, isn't it? you'd go to a shop. If people like clothes and that, they'll go to the clothes, like have a look through the clothes, and they'll kind of just enjoy the brows. That is,

especially for men, probably 90% of the process, whereas then the matching side is so small, generally speaking, that that's when you get the little ego boost. You don't swipe going, oh, I hope she likes me back. Oh, I hope she likes me back.

You swipe thinking, she's attractive, she's attractive, she's attractive. Yes. So that's the question and the question from that study then is Swipe and is it about desire or is it about validation? I think the act of swiping

is desire. Yeah, yeah. And that's what the study suggests. The use of the app in general like overall the idea of getting the app is internet. It's a hard to go ahead. I don't know, man, because like you are swiping out of desire

and waiting on the validation of the money. liking you. Like otherwise, what's the fucking point to swipe them? Well, to get the relationship, I think.

Well, depending on what you're on it for. Sometimes it's just to fill a void. Yeah. Yeah, it's a difficult one,

like, because I understand there, I'm sure there's an ego boost every time you get a swipe back. But the research suggests that that's not

the real, that's not people's intent on swiping on going on today in apps. They reckon it for a sexual desire or connection.

many people aren't aware like you're going to get an ego boost when you find out someone likes you well do you feel that's like if you're on Tinder and you're getting loads of matches does that improve does that boost your self-esteem I remember in my 20s when I was on it

and it was it was to fill a void it was to boost it was to boost boost my ego like you were like all right great well and we've definitely talked about this before where like John you got to

a match, you're like, oh, this is great. And then you got to match two seconds later. And I'm like, right, forgotten about that one. Let's go for this one. It just keeps, it's just those fucking... So do you think, do you think that the insecure swiper is a real thing? Is it a fair stereotype? Yeah.

When you say insecure swiper, do you mean people that use it are generally insecure? I think so. Yeah, I think I'm insecure about who I am, how I feel and I'm going to use this app now to get an ego boost to get validation that I am, attractive, that I am, wanted. that I am sexually desired. Yeah. It's also an easier thing to use for people who are insecure than going up and talking to people outside in the real world.

That's why a lot of people use it. Like especially younger generations, a lot of them struggle to talk to someone outside of using a dating app. I think there are some small pockets of people that are just like, I hate being around groups of people in general, but this is a way to be able to find someone. but I think that's a very quite a small pocket generally. Would you, would you swap, here's a question for Boudia.

Do you feel that you swipe less or would you swipe less if you were single for longer? So would you swipe less or more if you, the longer you're single for? Yeah. I think it depends on what experiences you're seeking outside of it. If you're not really doing anything whilst being single, like going out and socialising, getting human interactions with people, doing things that physically demanding,

you're not getting that much of a, I don't really want to use the phrase, but you're not getting that much of a dopamine hit from life. So you're probably more likely to seek that desire. You're going to swipe more. Yeah. You're going to swipe more. Whether you care about it or not is the other thing.

yeah yeah I don't know I had it for a while but then I deleted because I just got bored of it and you go in there you're gonna you're gonna delete it I don't think as anyone that uses the dating apps

doesn't at one point I's got oh fuck this and delete the thing does matching feel like validation to you no not it used to I think but now it's kind of if the person that I say if I've matched

and then I look through the profile think oh cool nice like it seems like like they're active. It seems like they're a smiley person. They're not too posy, blah, blah, blah. And then I message and they respond. Even that now doesn't really give much of a boost. It's if the conversation continues. I'm like, oh, sweet, I am worthy of this person's time. So would you say that you're on the apps for connection rather than for validation? There's going to definitely be an aspect of

validation still. I don't think you can really ever get away from that. Yeah. I'm low battery. We'll have finished now anyway. But now for me, yes, it's more the first thing. So I can't remember exactly what it was. It's more for connection.

People are more inclined to use dating apps for desire rather than self-esteem, essentially. Yeah. So now it's definitely more about the connection. Yeah. Which I don't actually, like even if I'm like looking through, yes, it will be based on attraction to begin with. But as soon as I've liked them, they're not in my mind anymore because I know it's not necessarily a thing until you've started a conversation.

It is kind of funny to look at people being on dating apps more for connection, but more afraid to talk to each other out in public. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's another issue for another, another day. So that was our studies on evolutionary psychology and modern dating. Very, very interesting conversation. Thank you for your wonderful insights. These are just amazing human beings.

That was the best. Go on with your day now. It's making me uncomfortable. All right, that's it. Thank you very much.