The Uneducated PT Podcast - 🎙 Episode 107: Building Secure Relationships with Laura Forbes

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

This week, we’re joined by Laura Forbes, a relationship coach who helps individuals and couples break free from destructive patterns and build deeper, healthier connections. We dive into:The coaching process and what “success” really looks like in relationshipsUnderstanding attachment styles — anxious, avoidant, and secureThe anxious–avoidant cycle and how to break itMicro-habits to strengthen connection over timeGreen flags, red flags, and navigating modern datingHow to heal from breakups and date with purposeConflict vs. destructive conflict in couples — and how to rebuild trustWhether you’re single, dating, or in a long-term relationship, Laura’s insights will help you create more secure, fulfilling connections.

Laura, welcome to the podcast. Can you tell the listeners a little bit about what you do first and foremost? Thanks for having me. So first and foremost, I am a relationship coach and I help women to break old relationship patterns and healthy, toxic relationship patterns and get into alignment with themselves and secure healthy attachments and partners. How long have you been doing that for? So on and off for about a decade, which makes a little bit ancient. But yeah, so I've done it coaching for, you know, over a decade. And then I kind of niched into what I do now, which is my align and attract coaching program where I work with women on their patterns and get into secure relationships for the last five or six years. And what drew you into that? Well, I've always been fascinated with the human mind, right, and potential.

And I was always, you know, one for wandering down the self-help aisle at the local bookstore. And I always also wondered, like, what's the difference between people that can find, you know, their childhood sweetheart and live happily ever after versus people that are just like chronically single and just can't seem to ever have a relationship that lasts? And so as I, you know, started dating myself and coming across that kind of thing, I just got more and more interested in that and noticing different patterns at play in different people's lives and relationships. So that kind of... Do you notice that, have you noticed maybe over the last couple of years, has it seemed like if people are finding it harder and harder to get into relationships? Yes and no. I think, I mean, if we look at like what's going off on social media,

there's a lot of people that are just kind of like swearing off love altogether, right? Because it's just like, and it's understandable because there's only so many times you can repeat a pattern and have the same outcome that take toll on you before you're just like, now I'm out. It's like we've literally got inbuilt defenses that are going to protect us from keep doing that, right? So I definitely think, yeah, maybe it's something that's a bit more of a cultural thing at the minute. Yeah, I think I notice on social media. Obviously social media isn't the truth of everything because it's like the loudest voices are always in the room. So that's what you'll hear even though it could be like the minority. But I see on social media a lot of

real like men versus women like them versus us kind of things like the the manisphere and the feminists and like how terrible men are or how terrible women are and that's kind of my observation of that yeah I've noticed that too and again you have to think like how much of this is real versus how much of it is like kind of stuff that's pushed out just for rage bait right or for just engagement but it's not the reality and I think it's like a bit of a mix Yeah. So what type of clients would you work with over the last couple of years? Like, what are the kind of problems they have when they come to work with you? Yeah. So full range. Often it might be people that are getting out of a toxic situation or a marriage or something where, you know, it's kind of reached that level of toxicity. So they might come out of that feeling quite disconnected from themselves. That can be, you know, if you're in a situation where your boundaries are getting violated or you're kind of, you're kind of, you're. your self-trusts getting eroded for different reasons.

Like you come out of it feeling like a bit of an empty shell. So sometimes people come, you know, when they're in that situation. Other times it's just people that are just sick of, you know, repeat and same patterns in relationships. And they're like, hang on a minute, I'm the common denominator of what's going on, you know, subconsciously in me that's like drawing me to these people or, you know, where I don't find the other secure, healthy options attractive. Yeah.

And what type of, because I presume then, like, the people that work with you when you're coaching them, it's not all, okay, the fundamental, like the, the, the, the, the pivot of success here is that you get into a healthy relationship. I'm sure there's loads of different types of success within working with them clients. So like, what are the, what would you deem as a, as a successful journey for some of the clients that, that come on board with you? Yeah, totally. Like, I know in the fitness industry, it's talked about like the non, um, non-scale victories, right? So the non-relationship victories would be, you know,

when you catch yourself responding differently. So like I've literally had that this morning. A client message to me. She's like, oh, I'm so excited. Like I was going somewhere yesterday. I received this message that would have previously kind of played on my mind. And she was like, no, I'm not dealing with that right now. I'm out doing this.

So it's those little moments or choosing differently, cutting something off quicker. You know, if you're like, yeah, there's chemistry, but we're not compatible or we don't want the same things in the long run so I'm going to you know stop this before it gets too far um just coming back into a line like literally date how you feel day to day so feeling more confident building that self-trust you know making different choices um focusing on different things yeah because because i would imagine yeah like unless you have them you know non relationship wins um you like you're not going to get to that

stage anyway because it's like oh I'm just going to keep going back to that pattern of of spending time with that person just because they gave me attention even though I know that they're not right for me totally and I know a lot of clients that I work with do want relationships that is their intention and their goal but for me as like a coach it's never about that it's like that's the added bonus right the cherry on top of the cake the real payoff is your relationship to self right and knowing yourself knowing or that's you know a pattern or that's a limiting belief that I used to have that would push me down this road or I would, you know, minimise certain, you know, needs or not express myself in case it upsend the connection.

And, you know, so it's kind of working through all of that and come into that place where you feel secure and you're like, okay, I like this person. I want it to work out. If it doesn't, I'm still going to be okay. Yes, that makes perfect sense because it's like the relationship, the relationship becomes a byproduct of you working on your own relationship, which is quite similar to coaching weight loss, it's like, okay, yes, I know you want, what you want is weight loss, but we actually need to sort all these other problems out, like improve your relationship with food, focuses on health seeking behaviours, focus on doing things because you enjoy doing them things. And then weight loss ends up becoming a byproduct. So it's like, by not focusing on the thing,

you end up getting the thing that you want sometimes. Yeah, it's like that inside out approach, right, whether it's fitness. And relationships have always been a great mirror. Because again, like you could, you know, think you've done the healing in private when you're not, connected to anyone and then you go out dating and all of a sudden you're getting triggered or you realize like oh actually I've not worked on this or this person's bringing this thing out to the surface. That makes sense. Can we talk about relationship attachments because just for people that aren't sure of the terminology and what they mean. So how would you like define a secure relationship or a secure person even? So secure relationships or secure, you know, tendencies are it's like I'm okay

and, you know, I'm okay in relationship and I'm okay when that relationship is either not there or that person's busy or I'm single, right? So it's like it doesn't affect yourself with like, yes, connection is, you know, a human need. We all need connection and want relationships. But it's like that healthy, reciprocal thing. And it's like there's not that drive to control or to spiral out if that person's not showing up in the way that you want or need them to. You know, the secure communication. So you're not shrinking or minimizing your own needs. You're like, look, this is who I am. This is what I value.

This is what I need, you know, in a relationship or want from a relationship. And if that other person is like, oh, I can't do that. If you're secure, you're like, okay, we'll go our separate ways then, right? No hard feelings. Whereas what I see a lot, I mean, I used to do this as well myself with anxious attachment is you either don't say that in the first place what you need. And we wear these masks of like, whether it's like, you know, the chill girl mask. Like, I have not got any needs, right?

and I'll just go with the flow, even though I really want a relationship. But like, you know, that kind of thing. Or that you might put a boundary in place or ask or request something. And if that other person's like, yeah, I'm not going to do that or they don't follow through, rather than going, okay, look, let's readdress this or, you know, we've not done this. Is there a reason why? And having that communication off and it'll be internalised. And it'll be like, well, I'm not good enough.

Or this is all I can get. So, you know, this is the best person I've ever found. So I'm going to kind of pedestal them and prioritize them. and that attachment over my own needs. So to answer your question, like with anxious attachment, often it's like I'm going to prioritize the connection over my own authentic self and, you know, my own secure attachment. Secure attachment is like, no, like we're both priority, both our needs matter. And if this is a fit, we'll go forward.

If not, then that's fine. And then the avoidant side of things. So there's dismissive avoidant and fearful avoidant. Dismissive avoidant is a bit more like I'm a prioritising me. over the connection, right? So that's when we have the people that are pulled back or like, you know, find a bit dismissive. And the fearful is a bit push-pull, right?

They're like one leg in each camp. So that can be confusing. Oh, tell me a little bit more about the fearful of wine because that sounds a little bit like me. So it's like the best of both worlds. So basically like you want intimacy because that's essentially what it is. We're talking about like intimacy, right?

So for the dismissal, avoidant, like if someone gets too close, they're like, oh no, get away. And that kind of comes out with the fearful too. So sometimes in terms of fearful attachment and what that can look like is you want the attachment, you want the connection and intimacy, but you're also scared of it. So you're just scared of like, you're either scared it's going to go away. So you end up pushing it away before they can leave or with the dismissive, it's more like I'm scared you're going to engulf me and I'm going to lose myself. So therefore you need to get distilled. Yes. So would a fearful avoidant be very hyper-independent or very kind of like, would you categorise them as people who are very much like workaholics and stuff like that or is that generalisation?

So, I mean, it's all generalisation, isn't it? If we're kind of like talking about it like this, but I would say that more leans to the dismissive. Like with dismissive avoidant, we might see more workaholic tendencies. Because again, it's like, you know, your preference. prioritising work over intimacy, for whatever reason that might be. But yeah, the fearful one is more like the push pull. So it's like you would probably not be as, you know, workaholic with that one. They still might have some tendencies. And when you're pushing away, you might throw yourself into something else. But then you kind of come back, right? You push away and then you regret it.

And then you're trying to reconnect. What, would, could a, someone who has an anxious attachment and someone who has an avoiding the attachment could it ever work between the two people or it could yeah I mean they're not like you know a life sentence you can do the work and you can you know adapt and change so again like we're all coming back to secure attachment um and so if if you've ever taken like an online quiz right where it's like what's your attachment style it will show you in like a pie chart so there'll be you know you're this percentage of secure this percentage of anxious avoidant um and so we're just working on identifying like, okay, what are my, you know, anxious triggers or avoidant triggers

and patterns? And then, you know, how can I work through those? So I come to a place of responding versus reacting. And then it's just that different choice point over time. And so when you say, like, can they work? They can work, but there's the caveat of both people have to be willing to put in the work. Right. If one partner's like, I want to work through this and I see your patterns and I see mine. But the other person's like, no, there's nothing wrong. with me like oh no I'm just you know I'm just a workaholic yeah there there has to be there has to be there has to be like oh I do have this avoidant attachment or I do have this anxious attachment yeah so the self-awareness plus the willingness because there's plenty of self-aware people

that are not willing right to put in the work and they're just like I'll just keep avoiding that and I'll just replace with the next person which you know like we's talking about with the dating there's endless supply on dating apps right this revolving door it's just like oh you're you're upset in me right because this is often where say you've been dating like anxious and avoidant. And it's going along in that first little honeymoon period. And you're like, oh my God, I've found someone amazing. Like we both want the same things.

The communication's there. The intimacy's there. But then there's like a what I call like the avoidant trip wire. So it's okay to a point. Because in the beginning it's not true intimacy. It's like desire. Yeah. And it's like you're getting to know a person.

It's not the in the trenches, you know, commitment and relationships. Once that comes along, then it's like, oh, I don't like that face. like that makes me uncomfortable because now I've got to look at like what's my part in this why you know like I've got to have this conversation or this person's got a need and that makes me feel uncomfortable

because now I feel like they're you know wanting something from me so it brings all of our stuff to the surface and where does like where does this come from where does this like anxious attachment come from where does this avoidant attachment come from so again it's like nervous system right so part of the the

healing and the regulation is from soothing the nervous system. So with anxious attaches, typically, we'll have a hard time self-regulating. So on my page, obviously, I poke fun a lot at the avoidance because that's what I do. But like also. Oh, and also another question, sorry, just on that, sorry to for interrupting me, and also because you work with a lot of women as well, do you notice that women are more, have a more tendency to be, have anxious attachment versus men have avoidant attachment? Or is that a generalised? I mean, only because it's my little part of the world. right? Like I know these examples of avoidant women and anxious men, I know I've come across them,

but, you know, from what I deal with on a day to day basis, from my, you know, little POV, it's more obviously the women, but that's not, you know, necessarily accurate and true on the whole. But yeah, so we poke fun at the avoidance, but then every time again, there'll be someone in the comments that's just like, yeah, well, anxious people are unbearable. And it's true, right? Like, I've been on the receiving end of, you know, dating someone who's got anxious attachment as well. And it can be quite overbearing because with anxious attachment, and again, I used to have this issue myself, is you can find it hard to self-regulate. So it's like when you notice the other person pulling back, it triggers this, you know, this response. It's like, you know, that's because from a nervous system point of view, and again, this is often not coming from our rational adult mind.

It's coming from like a younger part of us that was like, this attachment is my world, right? So whether it started off with your caregivers or parents, when you're like four, you can't survive without them, right? So it is like life or death. Obviously when we're adults, it's not the same, but the nervous system didn't get the memo. So it triggers this like, I need to get this person back. So then we kind of like go into overdrive mode, which for an avoidant, it's going to repel them further because they're like, ooh, get away.

I was already getting like a bit icked out by the intimacy growing and now you're like, you can't self-regulate, which you feel there. you feel they're too needy right so yeah and i mean they are because they need you to make them feel better right to make them feel calm in that moment but which is okay but it's both for the avoidant person it's like the worst thing in the world yeah which is understandable right and for the anxious person the worst thing in in the world is the person you had intimacy with the person you thought you were you know developing a connection with all of a sudden just discarding you like you nothing right like you never even had a thing going in the first place so and then

you're both activated and then it's just a shit fight. So the solution is self-regulation, right? It's the, and when we're talking about can anxious and avoidant work together, the answer is yes. If the avoidant can step away and communicate, hey, this is too much for me right now. I need some time away. I am coming back, right? And I'll come back, you know, on Tuesday at 4 o'clock and we'll talk about it then.

But what normally happens is they just go away and they're like, oh, yeah, we'll reconnect. and then it's just left open-ended. For the anxious, that's just unbearable, right? And they're over there struggling to self-regulate because in their mind, it's like, you know, like part of your brain literally goes offline when you're stressed out, right?

And it's like this fight off like stress response. And so they'll be ruminating, talking about it with like their friend over and over, you know, trying to reach out, even though that person's asked for space. And it's just, you know, very stressful for all involved. And can you be, is it possible that you might be like, have more of an anxious attachment to one person, but more of an avoidance attachment to another

person. Yeah. So again, we're all, there's something in psychology and nervous system regulation called neuroception, which is basically like we're always reading each other. So we communicate verbally and with body language, we know that. But then there's that like hidden language of like our nervous systems corresponding. And it's always kind of on the lookout of like, am I safe? Is this safe? Is this person safe? So for some people, if they've got unresolved, say, for example, I meet someone who's super secure, but I've got, you know, some lingering, anxious stuff, their security might feel icky to me because it's like there's nowhere to hide. With an avoidant, they're not really showing up and seeing you. So it's like, they're the problem. Right? I'm fine.

With my unresolved issues, they won't commit. They're the problem. They're distant. When as if someone's, you know, they're showing up, they're not going anywhere and they're like, hey, are you okay? That might then trigger that avoidance, right? Because it's like anxious and avoidant, they're kind of two sides of the same coin. So depending on who you're with and what they're leading with will correspond to like what's coming out in you. Yeah, that makes so much sense. Like, why, oh, this person, why is this person, why is he, all these healthy behaviours? It's making me feel uncomfortable because I'm just used to like toxicity and like, you know, chaos, basically.

totally and like the so say you know you're dating a hardcore dismissive avoidant they're not really that bothered about your needs or you know what's going on in your inner world yeah whereas like someone who's secure they want to know what's going on in your inner world but if you're disconnected from that because you're used to minimising your needs or putting on a different mask that's going to be uncomfortable because you're like actually I don't even know what my needs are or like how do I actually feel about this and and now someone's wanting answers and I don't have them right it's going to I suppose like so this all goes back and to what you literally just said at the start, it's like, you know, the wins might not be getting into a relationship yet, but it's, it's, it's being able to heal yourself essentially. Yeah. And like the biggest factor is that the self-regulation. Yeah. Because we know what carnage that causes. And it's not like a sexy thing to do. It's not like, you know, you see certain offers and stuff online and it's like, well, come and get this result in six, you know, like, for example, lose three stone in six weeks and you're like, sign me up. That's what I need. But this is a bit slower and it's like it's not as sexy. It's not as like yeah.

It's not tangible. It's not like, oh yeah, you can make a, you know, 200, 200 quid and two weeks kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, and again, like we're humans. We don't want to look at some of that stuff. It's uncomfortable. And for some people, it's so uncomfortable because they've never gone there, right? And sometimes there's trauma and stuff mixed in with all of that. Like, these patterns don't come out of nowhere. They come out of trauma. Their adaptions, survival adaptions. So whether it's anxious or avoidant, they're rooted in something that felt uncomfortable. And do you have to have that conversation with clients when they come into it? Like, it's that expectation that like this, these things that you're struggling with won't be resolved overnight, probably.

A little bit, yeah. And it's almost like, you know, you've ever to start, like, cleaning a room or tidying out your wardrobe. And you're like, yes, I'm going to do this. And then you get like halfway through and shit's everywhere. And you're just like, hmm. And it won't continue. I'll come back to this. Yeah, I don't really want to do this anymore.

I'm tired. But like, everything's everywhere. And you know you're going to feel better once it's all tided and, you know, squared away. But you've just got to push through that little bit. Is there any, like, like, micro habits that can help, let's say someone has an anxious attachment and you're helping them to become more secure in themselves? Like, what are some, like, exercises or, like, patterns that they have to try to overcome or like things that help to help them become more secure.

Yes. So we're always going to start with boundaries. Yeah. So secure is safety, right? So we want to create internal safety. And also like boundaries with, you might have noticed this before in relationships. And I suppose like with clients and stuff, right.

If we know where we stand, that creates an environment of safety. Whereas if you like, you start working with a client, but you're like, yeah, we're a bit sloppy with like what when and how we're going to communicate or like what access you get. and we don't really know what you get in or when. It's like, oh, I don't feel really safe in this container, right? It's uncertainty. So having boundaries is essentially like boundaries with self.

So for example, you know, if you're like, I want marriage and kids, therefore one of my boundaries is I'm not going to entertain someone who's going with a flow and doesn't know what they want or won't commit. And then boundaries with other people would be, right, I'm going to ask for my needs to be made. If someone's kind of being a bit disrespectful or not treating me with consideration, I'm not going to tolerate that, right? Because that doesn't feel good and that's not what I want. So I have to then put a boundary in place. And then if that person oversteps that or doesn't

respect that boundary, there has to be a consequence, right? It's not just like, I'm going to set a boundary but not enforce it because otherwise what's the point? Coming back to the self again. So just half of the work is like noticing. So like noticing, oh, that felt uncomfortable or this is coming up. And rather than just kind of like pushing it down and going for a scroll on TikTok or whatever, we start to kind of lean in and and choose. into what's going on so that that unresolved stuff because it's all little bodies like you know warning lights right it's like little hey check here look at this this is what's coming up um and from there we can kind of go a bit deeper and go right so what what needs adjusting to bring into alignment with that secure

self that makes sense and what about the the opposite way if you're working with someone who has like avoidant uh attachment what what kind of like micro steps would help them to become more secure okay so for avoidance again is tuning in again so like notice what feels uncomfortable and why and get curious because again like curiosity is a keyword to rather than just kind of like dismiss it or push it down or blame someone else it's like like you know taking responsibility right for like these are my patterns this is what's coming up for me and then how do I want to communicate if I'm you know dating someone who's got anxious attachment style and I find that a bit overbearing I can then communicate like, hey, this is what I need

and kind of work with the other person, right? And go, right, if we have a disagreement for future reference, before we're both like, you know, in the midst of it, let's put some rules in place, right? Let's put some little boundaries in place of this is how it's going to go down. I'm going to go over here and we'll reconnect after X amount of time. Yeah. Talk.

So obviously, then a lot of the clients you work with are single and are trying today and maybe not be in a position today yet. and some maybe are. What are some of the main issues you see in modern dating right now? Well, where do we start? People not being transparent, I think is a big, big problem.

Because, you know, I've worked with women all over the world for like over five years in this particular niche. And it's like, okay, so we've gone past picking wrong, right? We've gone past like, oh, I'm drawn to avoidance or I'm drawn to emotionally unavailable people that can't meet my needs to people come in and like there's this like um performative secure so people can pick up a book on attachment or watch a podcast on attachment and know the lingo and know oh yeah i know

that i'm secure i've i've healed my issues but then when it comes to the test they're still playing out the pattern right because the willingness is not there the willingness to kind of deal with that discomfort and work through it and level up is not there so i think one of the biggest things that i'm seen again like when I'm working with people and also just from observing what's going off online is this thing of like people performing and not really truly being themselves or you know a bit manipulative right it's like if you're presenting a certain way to to get an end right but then you're not going to follow through with that it's that's that's that's what you came back to saying self-awareness plus what was the other thing you said willingness plus willingness yeah yeah

that makes that makes perfect sense and I suppose with the rise of social media everyone knows therapy terminology now and using it probably out of context a lot of the times as well. Say that again. Now because that everyone knows like therapy terminology and then they're using it out of context or like yeah, not really saying things but not really understanding them really. Because that's the key thing, right? It's like, oh, I've met someone they're self-aware. They know that they used to have this.

They know about this. But then it's like different. You know, I know how to lose weight. I know what I should eat and not eat, but are you doing it daily consistently? And then if you're not doing it, you don't really know what you're doing, even though you kind of, you say you do, but like you don't know it in, you don't know it in depth. You don't really... Something's out of alignment, right?

Because it's like, it's okay if I say it and I know it, but I'm comfortable at the way I'm out. I don't want to lose weight. So that's one thing, right? I'm comfortable. I don't, I want to stay single or, you know, whatever. But it's like, if you want a relationship, you're saying you want a relationship, you're putting in the effort, you're going on dates, you're talking to. you're talking to people, but then there's the, you know, broken link.

Yeah. It's not. Yeah. How can a single person tell if they're genuinely ready to start dating again or they're just lonely? Well, that's a good question. I mean, and this is the thing, right? You don't need to be fully healed to date, right? Like, it's not, because like I said, sometimes stuff comes out in the process of dating that otherwise you wouldn't have uncovered. So, I mean, if you're jumping from one relationship, you're devastated and next week you're on five dates lined up because you're desperate to find someone, that's a bit of a red flag. You need to be able to sit with and process the end of something before you get into something

else to make sure there's not that, you know, you're two months in with someone and then you're like, actually, I'm not over my ex. It's like being considerate and emotionally hygienic, right, to have those boundaries in place. So they're kind of the flag. It's like, check your own intention. Am I doing this because I'm super uncomfortable and I just need. a distraction or need validation, in which case maybe pause. Yeah.

Or it's like, am I, you know, quite happy and content? I'm working on myself and I want a relationship. And what, yeah. So I suppose that's kind of also the same as like if you're jumping from one relationship to the other and they keep end and then you probably haven't worked on the, on the thing that's probably causing them relationships to end as well. A bit of self-reflection, yeah. Because again, like maybe you were in something and it ended because they didn't want to go

any further and you're you're like no I'm I know I'm good right but it's just looking at your own patterns look and again being honest with yourself right and being like where is this actually coming from and does it happen the opposite way as well where it's like people they break up with someone and then they find it really really hard to go back dating again and like like well kind of over time where they're just constantly ruminating about it yeah that can happen quite a lot as well I think how do you how do you help someone who was in that's situation. So there's a couple of different things, right?

So it's not like, if a relationship ends, sometimes it's like it's ended for a reason, right? And it's incompatible, move on. Sometimes you're like, oh, it ended because my anxious attachment style was out of control, right? And I knew I was needy or and I pushed that person away, whatever. And it's like, okay, so am I going to do that work to up level? And then through doing that working from like up leveling and becoming more secure,

reconnecting with that person on a different level, right? Because if it's broken up for a reason, so you don't want to reconnect on that same level. You want to up level, which can happen. And then if you're, you know, if that person's moved on and you're just that ruminating, again,

it's looking at what's going on deeper for that. Because often it's like the fantasy, right? Or we're not seeing the picture clearly because our mind's stuck on the idea or the projection or the fantasy of what that was or what that could have been, which, you know, it's difficult to go there and to face.

that because it's uncomfortable feelings that are going to come up. Yeah, what are some green flags that you would say to maybe clients who are on, like their first few dates with someone new? Green flags to look out for. So I would always highlight pacing, right? Because it's easy to get carried away when we want to jump in, the connections there, and you think you know someone before you do. So pacing, if the other person is happy to pace, right? If they're not like, oh, come back to mine at the end of the second date or, oh, second date, I thought we could do Netflix and Shep. they're like red flags. So you're like, is this person being considerate? Are they respecting my boundaries? Are they taking it slow? Are they being intentional? Are they communicating? And again,

just keeping in the back of your mind, what we know about people that can perform those things for the first two or three months. So it's just like just making sure words and actions align consistently over time. So people can be very much like you're on your first couple of dates and you think this person is great because they're giving you all this attention and they're constantly messaging you and they're being very thoughtful and then three months in then they do a 180 basically yeah dismiss you for someone else yeah um so yeah you got to be mindful of that but again that's really difficult to like uh i would imagine for someone to you know be wary of because it's like you're you're getting different signals all the time then yeah and i think that's why it's easier to go what are my

own internal green flags, right? Versus, because you don't, we don't know each other, right? You're meeting someone, like, unless you've, like, you've known them for years or they're a mutual friend. And even then, sometimes it's not, you know, 100%. Yeah. But we have, we can have this tendency to project onto someone and be like, oh, yeah, I've been wanting this and this person's come along.

They take these boxes. So I'm going to assign this character to them, right, until they prove otherwise. Instead, we kind of need to go, how do I feel with this person? Do I feel safe? Do I feel, does my nervous system feel regulated or does it feel a little bit spirally? Like when we're not together, am I constantly checking, waiting for a text message or, you know, feeling like it's hot and cold? Or does it feel consistent? And again, not going like, it's been two weeks of consistency.

Therefore, this person's secure and amazing. It's like, right, that's good. Let's see how that continues, right? I would say someone's in that situation where like they're stuck spiraling over someone who's not shown interest. Like, how do you help someone like, that or what should they do? Yeah, so what should they do? Some self-inquiry, right? So coming back to disconnect a second from the outcome that you, you know, you're trying to get and go, right, so let me just, first of all, come out of denial a little bit and acknowledge what's actually

happening, right? This person's literally left me for dead. Should, you know, should, like, if I've got self-esteem and self-respect and, you know, protects myself, should I really be still anchoring after them, right? Or should I kind of start to accept like, okay, this person's shown me that this is where they're out and they've put their boundary in. They don't want to talk to me. So now let me go and figure out like, okay, what's my part in this and what do I want instead and start working through some of that self-regulation. Yeah. Do you have any tips for people who are starting to date after, let's say, you know, a divorce or a very long relationship? Like, is there any difference in the time in there versus maybe someone, you know, who broke up with someone?

after a year or something like that. Yes and no. What's quite interesting that I've found doing this work is sometimes people get out of the marriage and then they'll meet someone and have like a little situation ship and then they'll be more devastated about the end of the situation than they were about the end of the marriage. So it's like... Why do you think that is?

Could be in numerous things, right? So typically as well, if there's been a long ending, so typically with a marriage, it's a long ending, right? It's like things weren't working out for a couple of years. We tried. And by the time it ends, you kind of... Yeah, they had almost broken up four years before they actually broke up. Right.

So you've kind of done the grieving, you've come to terms, and you're just grateful for the freedom at the end of it, right? Sometimes. Or you've not had your needs met for years and years and you finally do something about it and get out. Not every case. Some divorces come out of the blue, right? And can be really devastating.

But then with the, again, with the short-term stuff, it's like all of a sudden, like you're getting this new experience that you've not had, especially if you've been in something really, long time and then again we have this thing of like we can project onto stuff and and have that fantasy and it seems a mate you know the higher you go the bigger the fall kind of think so i think there's a few different factors that play into that yeah that's interesting what's one weekly habit that meaningfully improves dating for people who are struggling in the dating market at the moment

good question and i would say don't put too much emphasis on it right so especially for say for example the apps. Don't be on there every day, so I'm up until you lose the will to live, right? It's like, just take a bit more of a measured approach. And I had a client and she was like, I'm just going to go on two days a week, like treat it like a job and line up dates. And she ended up meeting someone in the wild anyway. So it's like the, not like the less you care,

but the less attached you are to that certain outcome coming from a certain place. Right. So it's like, you just concentrate on how can I create a fulfilling life and how can I feel good in alignment with my own self and my own life, day to day, meeting the right person at the right time, you know, it was going to be a byproduct of that

versus like trying to find the needle in a haystack. Would you say most of your clients are getting dates through the dating apps or is there a mix? Like, what's your opinion on the dating apps and how to kind of, you know, improve the circumstances

of that? It's a funny one because part of me is like, oh, they're trash. Yeah. The bottom of the barrel, don't bother. But ironically, a lot of my clients do meet partners through there. And so, and the clients that meet partners, like really great partners on there,

have also had that previous experience of, you know, disaster after disaster on there, or just not finding anything. So it's not like anything changed. I literally think it is about the alignment, right? Like how you show up and then what literally you're aligning with and matching with on any given day and being able to recognize, right? Like in the past,

they might have swat past someone who ended up being a really great match for them. Yeah. It makes sense because like people are often like demonising the tool and the tool is the social media app or the dating app or it essentially it could actually just be it could be you. I mean, yeah, don't get me wrong. There's definitely, you know, undesirable people on there. Yeah. Different agendas. But again, if you can, you get more laser focused on what you want, you're non-negotiable.

You're swiping left on 9, 8% anyway. Yeah. Yeah, is, is, is being someone in person almost dead now? Well, like I said, you know, I have got a few clients that have met people in the wild. So, and again, I just think it comes down to that belief. Like, I've got a client and since we started working together, just pretty much meet someone out in about every, every week. So again, I think it comes down to, if you never leave the house, you probably have a harder time.

But, you know, if you've got that belief that, like, I'm a good person, people are drawn to me, you know, you're naturally going to start to gravitate to those people. And if someone, let's say, it has gone through a breakup and they're trying to kind of meet someone again and they're using the date, the date and after, but they're also out and about and probably trying different like things where they can meet people, like classes or whatever it is, I suppose even if they don't meet someone, they're also probably healing themselves in some way as well because they're focusing on things for themselves. Yeah, and it's not just, you know, romantic relationships, right?

It's like, you know, we hear a lot at the minute about the loneliness epidemic or whatever. Like, it's like, well, connect, right? And if we're all just on behind screens all day, every day, we're not connecting anyway. And sometimes, you know, you might have had, you know, people that have gone to, you know, like the in-person dating events are coming back. And so they've gone there and they've not met a romantic partner, but they've met, you know, a great friend. Yeah. And that's enough for them.

Going into then couples issues rather than people who are trying to navigate, a single life. Do you work with anyone at the moment to, you know, going through issues as a couple? And also a question that I wanted to ask as well, like, what's the difference between like normal conflict in a relationship versus like obviously destructive conflict where, you know, it's likely to end in a breakup? Good question. So, yeah, I mean, I do have clients that, you know, worked with me because they wanted to find someone

and then they find someone and then carry on working with me, just enjoy the process. So, and with any relationship, things come up, right? Like conflicts or things that you've got to work through. So what I would say differentiates between, you know, like just regular stuff versus not so healthy things or if it's a repetitive thing. So because again, it's a talk about boundaries and compatibility, right?

It's like if there's an issue that keeps coming up over and over and it's not getting resolved, that's problematic, right? It's like, why is it not getting resolved? Is this just a fundamental incompatibility? We want different things or our values are not aligned. Or, you know, is this person not respecting my boundaries or not got the willingness to work through certain things or to have the self-awareness to see actually I'm playing a part of this outcome?

Yeah. So if something goes on and on, because again, I think this is what leads to the divorces, right? It's like stuff that can't be overcome, that's unworkable or that's become unworkable for whatever reason. And why would that be, why would it become unworkable? Is it, is it a fact that it's unworkable or is it a fact that they, they've left it so long that it's become unworkable? Is it like small things then end up turning into the big things because,

because there's no communication there? Yes to all. So sometimes it's life, right? Like, we're always growing and evolving. So if people are going in different directions and they, you know, they can't realign, on direction and values, then that's one thing. Sometimes it's that they don't have the willingness, right? They're just like, no, they've got that belief, right?

No relationships should be easy, so I'm not prepared to work on it. Or other stuff, because again, like, if it's a long-term thing, maybe kids have come into the situation, it changes dynamics. Is the willingness thing, is that, does that come from, like, unrealistic expectations that, like, relationships are supposed to be easy? well we've all got our beliefs and assumptions right so like what are those beliefs and assumptions creating in our world and in our relationships makes sense because again yeah go ahead I was just going to say there's like assuming positive intent as well so if it say for example

you have you know you've been married and then someone does something if we get defensive about that we can blow it out of proportion if we go okay you know this person loves me and is up until this point treated me well, let me go in with the assumption that they didn't mean to offend me or upset me or piss me off or whatever and kind of come at it from a different angle and say like, hey, what was going on for you when this happened? And they can then share and you can go, okay, well, this is how I received that or how I experienced it. And then if that person's like, oh shit, I didn't realize. I'm sorry, I won't do that again. That kind of squares it off. But if they're like, okay, well, whatever. And it doesn't get resolved. It causes those

resentments, right, that are going to fester over time. Do you think of other people in relationships who are having them arguments or let's say like they've broken trust whether like it's a lie or you know a financial secret or um you know cheating or whatever it is they need that probably third party to help them work through that possibly yeah for some things because i mean if if if both people have done work and got self-awareness and willingness you know sometimes they can get through that together yeah um but sometimes there might need to be because again we've all got defensive parts right? So it's very easy for that to get triggered and for then the communication to shut down, which then stops the resolution. Yeah. How can couples rebuild trust after like a rupture like

that? Let's say there is cheating because, you know, maybe one partner felt neglected or whatever the case may be. So Esther Perel talks a lot about that kind of repair in her work. So, I mean, it's, it takes a lot to rebuild trust, right? Like it's not going to happen overnight. So, you've got to work on that both parties, right? The party that, say, cheated has got to own that, like, this is not going to be an overnight fix, right? And actually, I need to rebuild and almost like, you know, start from scratch in that side of things.

And also give that other person grace. Because if they, and again, this other person needs to know, I can't keep throwing that back in their face forever. Otherwise, it's irrelevant, right? Yes, that makes sense because, like, if you're never going to repair something, and if you just constantly keep bringing up. It's kind of like, like, I'm keeping score of the things that you did

and you're keeping score of the things that I did. And it's like, you're never really going to have a happy relationship, if that's the case. Right. And it's like, can you forgive? Like, I think I would have a real hard time forgiving and overcoming that. And trusting they're not going to do it again, right? So, and if you know that about yourself, then it's like,

I mean, maybe some people will go, let's try and then come to that conclusion, like, actually, I can't overcome this, right? Well, maybe some people can and know people that do. Yeah, I would, yeah, I'd say that's, I'd say that happens a lot where people, it happens and people try to overcome that and then realize, oh, I can't get over that. Like, papering over the cracks a little bit. It's like, yeah, yeah, I can overcome this and let's carry on. But if you've not really dealt with, A, like, your own grief and, you know, betrayal over that,

yeah. Plus, what caused that in the first place, right? was it something that was incompatible or shaky in the relationship or the dynamic or has this person got avoidance or this person is, you know, self-sabotaging, in which case it's not necessarily this person's, you know, they've not played a part in it necessarily, do not mean? Isn't it funny like that, you know, relationships are such a kind of complicated dynamic and yet, like, most people go into relationships or go into marriage, is never kind of working with a therapist or working with a counsellor or working with someone who can kind of, like,

most people are just terrible at communicating. I know I'm terrible at communicating in a relationship as well. And it's like you're not giving yourself the best possible chance to make that relationship successful without kind of, you know, diving into that professional help, even for a couple of weeks. Yeah, I think it's a good point. And I think a lot of people tolerate stuff, right? So like, you're in a relationship and, you know, it looks all right on the outside. But deep down, what are you tolerating, right? Or where does that relationship take you out of alignment or where are you out of alignment with yourself

in order to keep tolerating certain situations? Or, you know, life's not a fairy tale, right? So there's going to be issues, there's going to be things to overcome. Like, that's part of the beauty of relationships, right? They can be a great place to grow and evolve. But that's my whole jam, is like alignment, right? And I just see a lot of people that are you just saying, why are you even together, right?

do you ever do you ever do you ever do you ever do you ever do you ever do you ever do you're with a client like you like you shouldn't even be together but you're not going to say that and you're because they their their goal is to obviously resolve it so I've been on that I've been that person as well where like anyone else around me would be screaming like what the hell are you doing yeah wake up but you know you have to come to your own conclusions otherwise we'd all just read a book close it and like my life's fixed on yeah yeah you have you have to make them decisions yourself at the end of the day don't you Yeah. Yeah.

And it's so difficult to do, because when you're, when you're the one in the relationship, like, the emotions are highest. So therefore you're probably the most blind to, you know, the reality of the situation. Totally right. Like, I always make this, like, an analogy of, like, buying a house. So, like, you wouldn't get absolutely high as a kai or drunk and go and buy a house, right? But often we're, like, high on, you know, the chemistry and we're, you know, making, commitments and purchases with our time, energy or heart that's not necessarily, you know, of sound

mind. Yeah, it's literally the most important decision you'll probably make is the partner you choose to spend the rest of your life with. Yeah. And I suppose that's also the reason why you probably can't trust yourself at the start of a relationship, like you said, because you have all these chemical imbalances going on that make you probably the worst judge of what's going on. Right. Well, but that's the difference, right? It's like you've got to have that strong enough connection to yourself and to know your own blind spots and potential, you know, downfalls to navigate that, even though that's all going off,

because you can't necessarily turn it off. I mean, you can turn off certain situations altogether because you're like, oh, I've been there before and I can see that's a walking red flag, or I can see that we're not compatible, even though there's amazing chemistry. So I know myself enough to know. I'm going to say no to that.

But otherwise, it's like, okay, keeping your life going as well right like keeping your own friendships go in keeping your own you know health and fitness and whatever practices go in so that you stay as connected to yourself as possible and with that as well it's like okay I understand that you kind of you're going to have to work on yourself but does it become a case where people try to work on themselves too much before they allow themselves the chance to to get in a relationship because like even if you think think about people like I know a friend who's being with his part he's he's in his 30s now and he's been with his partner since he was like 15 or something like he's gone through multi like in terms

of knowing myself to to be in a relationship like he's probably gone through multiple versions of of the person that he is in that relationship and she's probably done the same as well and then I think of other people who are like oh yeah I you know I still need to to know myself a little bit better before I get in a relationship so then I'm thinking like why why are them two things completely in contrast. And that's beautiful, right? Because we're all going to, well, most of us are going to grow and evolve and change, right? So being able to do that with someone is beautiful and, you know, probably not as common

and as we would like it to be. I think as well sometimes there's nothing wrong with staying single and just being with yourself, working on yourself, and that's great. Sometimes it can become an avoidance, right? So in certain situations, it's like, no, I just need to be a bit more this or I need to do a bit or that or whatever. And in a way, it's, it's like more of an acceptable version of avoiding because it's like, no, I don't want to get here again, which is something to work on, right?

It's like, you know, a fear. And it's founded because, you know, we've all been through the ringer at this point. So, like, that's understandable. But it's just, again, like, having that discernment of like, okay, let me question this and just make sure that it is, you know, a solid, you know, aligned reason why I'm not pursuing anything right now versus an avoid. or a fear or something that I'm, you know. Yeah, versus, oh, I'll get in the relationship when I make more money

or I'll get in the relationship when I have this career. I'll get in the relationship when I'm in better shape or... Because then it's like, is there a... And again, fair enough, that's a choice, that's fine. I've been wrong with that. But is it something underlying that of like, because I'm not worthy right now? That's a different energy and intention, right?

Versus, no, I'm just working on myself and I'm happy and, you know, I want to level up first, versus I don't feel worthy as I am. Okay, two more questions and then I'll let you go. What's the most useful truth about relationships that's hard to accept, but once you accept it, everything gets easier. Yeah. I'll say to whip out.

It's a profound statement. What's the most most useful truth? So what's a useful truth about relationships that it's hard to accept, but once you accept it, it makes everything easier in that relationship? Compatibility over chemistry. What does that mean? So you're going to struggle if there's amazing chemistry, but you're not compatible on certain things like values,

you know, non-negotiables, like you want kids, they don't, you want marriage they don't, you know, you want to live close by and they want long distance. Like those kind of things, non-negotiable. And sometimes we can override certain things because we've never had this connection before, right? This person makes me feel the way. No one ever in the world's ever made me feel.

so it could be hard to walk away from that and you truly want because if you're just happy to just meander through life and have experience there's no problem with that but if you know like now I want family I want marriage I want commitment security then compatibility needs to be the building

block the foundation and you can still have chemistry with people you know that you're compatible with but that has to kind of be the number one to focus on yeah so more about can I have long long term conversation with this person for the rest of my life that are useful versus this person looks good-legged. And can I grown involved with this person?

And if I'm ill or if something bad happens to me, is this person going to be supportive? Are they going to, you know, I saw a meme once and it was like, you know, do you want this person next to you on your worst day? Right? That's going to weed out a whole bunch of people straight away. Yeah, that's a very good one to, you know, filter out.

Is there any other good ones to filter out whether, you know, this person's going to be compatible? of ultimate me or not. Another one I like to use with clients is, would you feel comfortable leaving your seven-year-old self there? Or if you can't think like that, thinking like if you've got, you know, like a niece or a nephew or, you know, a godchild, would you feel comfortable?

And would that child feel comfortable? Would your seven-year-old self feel comfortable with that person? Because again, that's going to highlight, actually, no, this is just pure chemistry and vibes, versus this is a solid person that's, you know, self-aware, they're responsible, they're dependable, right? And they feel emotionally safe. And that's what it all comes down to, doesn't it? It's safety at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah, emotional safety. Yeah. And then the last question I have for you,

so what's the most useful true about dating that's hard to accept, but once you accept it, everything gets easier? Um, I would say that your relationships are a mirror, right? They're mirroring something. and it's not necessarily the conscious stuff on the surface, it's like what's, you know, the childhood trauma that you've not unpacked or the belief or assumption, you know, about relationships or what you deserve or whatever.

So if all my, if all my dating flings or anything like that are all chaos, it's probably that I'm probably a little bit chaos. Maybe a little bit of chaos underneath this. Right, I'll have to go back and have a tinker with a dash. Laura, where can people go if they want to keep up to date with the work that you do? And your fantastic meme treads. My fantastic memes can be found on Instagram, so at Quit Dating Idiots, Little underscore, underneath each one.

I'm writing a book, so my book is coming out in October next year, so that's exciting. Unreal. Well, then I have to have you back on to talk about the book when you have a published. Unreal, congratulations. And what if people wanted to inquire about working with your, or maybe even do like a consultation or anything like that? Yeah, perfect. So again, either go to my website, which is Quit Dating Idiot.

Idiots.com or go on my, you know, link in bio on my Instagram or just shoot me a DM and we can chat, you know, about your situation and what's going on. Okay. Brilliant. That was the uneducated PT podcast with the brilliant Laura. I hope you's enjoyed this conversation and make sure you follow along on Spotify, subscribe on YouTube, share it with your friends on social media and we'll see you on the next one. Thank you very much, Laura.