The Uneducated PT Podcast - Episode 126: “Why Are Kids Being Denied Strength?”

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

In this episode, Ger and Rob tackle one of the most frustrating taboos in youth fitness — why children and teenagers are still being denied access to proper strength training in schools. They break down:The outdated myths that still make teachers and parents afraid of “lifting weights.”How modern research shows that supervised resistance training is safe, effective, and essential for healthy growth.Why school systems keep prioritising endurance over strength — and what that says about our wider misunderstanding of physical education.The consequences of raising a generation that’s strongly discouraged from getting strong.How proper training could transform kids’ confidence, performance, and lifelong health.This is a no-filter conversation about how the education system is holding back the next generation — and what needs to change.

I suppose I first got brought into a gym at like 15, 16 for rugby. That's when you were brought in. And then it was kind of, you're kind of like half-fected into the deep end. Like I've said this to a few people before that like when it comes to like fitness, nutrition and all that stuff, we were given everything you needed, but it wasn't actually explained to. You know, the whole idea of like, I always say, like, my consults with potential clients that in the politest way, I want you to fuck off, meaning that if I teach you enough, you can go do this yourself. And I find, like, we didn't have that. We didn't have that when we're growing up. So, like, you were shown how to do exercises. You're brought into a gym. But, like, I notice it now with S&C's coaching teams. It's just kind of one program for 30 people. which was kind of the same mentality as what we had, you know,

15 to 18. And like, after that, like, I fell out of fitness after, after finishing school. I think it was, I started again kind of like first year of college

playing rugby. I injured myself towards the end of the season. And then I went off the deep end. And gained a load of weight. What, can I, can you go back to? So let's say when you first did the kind of

Essencey stuff in the gym with your coach and you were only 15 like what would you have from your experience what would you have done differently as as the coach in the room to the 15 year olds or would you do anything different? I'd be personalising

workouts and stuff. Yeah. Like the whole the whole standardized test of bench press and pull-ups to see if you're a good fucking athlete is is a load of shite.

Like, John, if you can't bench your body weight three times or you can't, John, do a pull-up, then, John, you won't be able to do this, which is a load of shite. I've played rugby most of my life without being able to do pull-ups properly. Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, exactly. Well, like, yeah, it's like, it's like someone who, like, depending on your weight, like, if someone's, like, really, really light, a pull-up is going to be easy for them. Yeah, well, like, we used, I think the funniest one I always,

always remember is being and this is only like maybe eight years back it was eight years back it was back playing rugby at home here in limerick and uh they were doing pre-season testing and stuff and you're doing your fucking broncos outside and then you went in uh went into the gym and they were doing your max bench uh test and then they went to pull-ups and it was they were like weighted pull-ups and you're watching the backs maybe fucking 75 80 80 85 kilos doing pull-ups most of their life, cracking them out with like a huge weight hanging off them. And then you're watching the forwards with a little 1.25 disc between your legs on a chain trying to pull yourself off the ground and struggling. You were just looking over and

you're like, I'm already carrying that weight. I don't need to add moron. A fucking kilo's way too much. But do you think, right, like in regards to, okay, so let's say you're 15, you probably, it's probably not like very like well um like they probably don't have a huge budget to for for each 15 year old to have their own coach where well now like it was it was interprovincials like it was you were playing school so it was like it was collective of schools together for monster schools rugby so like you had a quality gym you had quality coaches i can understand that within the like group coaching team day

you have the standard sets of exercise but if you also had a program where someone else would like well this is what you could work on in the side we didn't have that yeah that's what I mean so because there's this dynamic I think with coaches between like oh everything needs to be personalized

and nothing needs to be like standardised and I don't think that's realistic or practical as well but within the parameters of let's say okay you're bringing a team in to do some sort of a training session. Yeah, between like, we're all going to focus on doing some sort of a heavy press or a heavy pull or some lateral movements, like, within that, there's still, like, regressions and progressions and adding in more load.

So instead of this person doing a way that pull up, they might be doing, like, a row or a pull or a hold. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, like, John, that's what I, that's what I kind of found. and I noticed that it's still going on. It's the the regression and progression isn't there.

It's this is what we're doing. Grand. And like, most of the time you're watching most of the lads forwards and it's like, well, we can't do that. We say pull-ups wise. Don't worry, like,

you have the backs and the forwards doing the same beep test. And it's like, you probably should change that a little bit. Yeah. Did, was there any positives from you started from you doing them? because that's probably, that's your entry into the gym

and your entry into fitness outside of sport, I suppose, which is what you do now in regards to like training the general public. Like was there, is there any like, do you look back on any of that and think, well, it wasn't perfect, but I still got a lot out of that. obviously with my size and the way it's changed over the years and like blowing up and weight rugby in the gym was always that kind of safe space when it came to being athletic or being fitness like you could call someone a fat bastard on a rugby field and your biggest worry should be the guy's going to run over you know same as

being inside in a gym, being able to throw around a heavy weight no matter what shape or size you are, just brings that level of confidence and just power. That's so funny because I... I had this conversation

with someone, their name has gone out of my head, but they do a lot of research on male body image and binge eating disorder and one of the topics that he was researching I think he's done a thesis on this was the difference between body image and body dysmorphia

in athletes compared to when they're on the pitch or they're on the court or whatever there's specific sports. You talked about this. You talked about this on a podcast we did a couple of months back. Did I? When we did, we talked about body image and we even referenced it to how people who have body image issues

when they're in their sport like rugby players the level of confidence they have on the field and then when they step off it it's like they shrink kind of like how I compare it to getting into the water my confidence levels in the sea

compared to my confidence levels standing beside the water yeah do you think that has a lot to do with functionality because obviously we know the functionality obviously improves like focusing on functionality versus appearance obviously improves body image. And I remember when I was talking to this person, they were saying even like females who are in sport, you know, they love how athletic they look when they're moving on the pitch and stuff like that. And then they'll go put a dress on and go out to a nightclub and then feel self-conscious that they're too, you know, bulky or, you know, whatever the terminology. Yeah, you brought this, you brought this up on the podcast we did and I can think of the name of the person. Because I know I wanted to do, I definitely wrote it down somewhere on a sticky note.

And that's that's gone because I wanted to look at it myself. It's of course, man, like you feel like when you've, when you've achieved something on a field or inside in the gym and you're proud of what you've done, you have that confidence in your body. Then when you get out, it's getting back. It's out of your comfort zone. So you're putting on,

you're putting on clothes that you're not 100%. Like you have been inside in the gym wearing shorts and a tank top. John, wearing next to nothing you go out wearing jeans and a shirt and all of a sudden you're like, I don't know if I like how I feel in this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. Rob, what about you?

What's your first experience in a gym setting or environment? Do you remember your first workout? I remember the first gym I did a proper workout in and that was like this little, it was quite a big one, I had good equipment, but basically there was this working men's club kind of thing that was attached to a company called. Glaxo and just like pool tables, sneaky tables, etc.

And you wouldn't expect there to be a gym there. And Mates were just, oh, should you go to the gym? Just walking me down this weird back alley. And we just walked into it. And the first experience of it was I enjoyed throwing some weights around. But I'd say probably 16, 17. The main reason, well, no, I've been younger, 15, 16. The main reason for going though was my mates were all into like just wanting to build muscle and look good.

So quite a slightly different reasoning for Juer there. And I think if I'd have gone into it with more of a sport drive, I would have gotten into it a little bit more with a bit more education of to why. Like you were saying, yeah, like if you get thought why you're doing it and what the progressions are going to actually benefit, I think I'd have gotten into it a bit more. but I just went in, did a bit of training. It was all kind of vanity focused, and I think it just kind of died down a little bit for me. We did a little bit of...

Did going in for a vanity goal not... Like, did you stick at it, or did you stop? Well, it wasn't necessarily just for that. Basically, I stopped. I was so inconsistent. I mean, I'm not the most consistent that I am. That could be now either. But I also...

So didn't drive, didn't have a scooter, didn't have this, that, and the other, and I lived in the middle of nowhere. So everywhere that I needed to go was half an hour away. And I couldn't rely upon myself to get there. So like my main exercise was sprinting up the rough track near my house with my dog. Yeah. And doing press ups. When did you, so when, when did you, well, like, I think I'm pretty similar. Like, I went to, I went to my first gym, I went to my first gym when I was 16 and did it work. out with my friends, didn't have a clear what I was doing there, but it was okay. And then I didn't really go back for another couple of years. Like, I was definitely inconsistently consistent, kind of just kind of floating in now. But when did you, when did you go through a period of, like, oh, I'm someone that goes to the gym and trains? I'll be honest. I think probably

about eight years ago. 10 years ago was the first time that I started. Like I did, so I went to Loughbury Uni and should have been like an absolute gym buff going there and in the sports and everything. But there was the comparison of like everyone was so elite that he just kind of felt uncomfortable. But a few of my mates would keep going. I kind of focused on education a little bit more. Stressed about education, didn't actually focus on it that well.

But stressed about that more, my ex-girlfriend tried getting me into the gym because she was like, this is really good for mental health. It gets you it. like and she felt great doing it, but I would just go into the gym and I couldn't switch off from work and I wasn't doing that much. So yeah, it took me a while to kind of get into it and realize how good it was and I moved down to Cornwall doing my teacher placements and I was like, I need to know people. Otherwise I'm just going to be sat in my house doing absolutely nothing. So I was just like, right, social place, let's go to my gym. And one of the best decisions I made, like I made so many good friends going there and like just go into classes and stuff to begin with and learn a lot of

stuff met different people that I could then go on the beach with or go out for dinner and drinks with and my cardio improved significantly I didn't really have a goal but the people that were at the gym that I was going to called the gym project they just was so helpful and it was really nice socially and you could just kind you just learn the benefits of it because they actually cared about you as a member and I think that's a huge makes a huge difference like yourself jett going into the the sport stuff they're not actually focused on you as an individual you don't really feel like you're getting as much from it even if it's just placebo you feel like you're way more from it if someone actually pays attention to you and says you're doing

it for this reason yeah like I think I think for me and the general the the the personalization of it I think it was because I was new to it and I wanted to know more about it. So I'd find my reason for enjoying it. Yeah. Like knowing what, like, just, I think it was also that just being told what to do is not something I enjoyed. I was like, tell me why. Don't give me a good reason why the fuck I'm doing this or else I don't want to do it. I was the same with everything.

Jim, education, going to pork, eating vegetables. like I needed to know exactly why I was doing this thing. Give me a good reason or I'm not doing this. It's like being a kid, isn't it? Yeah. The parent or a guardian says, do this and you're like, why? Do this, why? Why?

And I do it. Do you think that that education comes in time regardless of whether you're curious or not just through the repetition of going and gain an experience? think it definitely can yeah there's a different efficiency like everyone learns differently don't know some people learn just by doing it themselves better some people learn by being told it some people learn by a mixture of both yeah it just depends yeah because personally I only learn true um like I'm doing a thing so now

it's relevant so now I need to understand how to do it better so now I'll learn about it. So I have to, I have to create action first and then education off the back of that rather than learning, like understanding how to do something and then doing it. I would rather, okay, I'm going to go into the gym. Now I'm on this machine. How the fuck does this machine work? Okay, now I need to learn about what this machine does. And then off the back of that, you know, after you put all them pieces together like this exercise and this exercise and this exercise. Okay, so now how do I incorporate them into a pro? And why shouldn't I be doing, you know, five different exercises that has a squat pattern in it?

Why do I need to only do two or why, you know, how many reps should I be doing and why can I do between three and 30 and why is it better to do lower reps on this exercise and higher reps on this exercise? But like all of that, all of them questions come as a byproduct or a back end effect of actually going and just showing up and saying I'm just going to train and whether it's dog shit and I'm doing everything. wrong and I think that's like that's what something that I see we're like you know the general public as well it's like you know instead of instead of needing to understand everything you probably just need to get yourself through the door first and be yeah no I agree completely yeah go in and fuck around and find out yeah yeah pretty much you know like it's you don't need to know absolutely everything yeah you know you learn it over time.

You don't need to learn everything all at once, I think. No, no. And what good is it going to like if you watch videos upon videos and tutorials

and find some online class of how to do a certain exercise, but in the 20 hours you've learned about it, you haven't tried it once. What's the fucking point like? You still may not be able to do it.

I remember. I think that I think that philosophy is really good with anything that you know in life like even if like starting a business like okay well I want to start this business but I need to learn how to you know do my finances do my taxes learn marketing learn sales strategies learn you know all these things still learning that shit yeah but like all them things come as a byproduct of okay I'm gonna I'm gonna do the thing first I'm gonna open the business and then I'm gonna figure out what I need to do along the way you just learn as a as a byproduct of of just thrown yourself into the deep end i think yeah it makes it become a more real concept rather than just like an abstract thought yeah and then you actually age with it more rather than just being a fleeting idea like when i first got told them out the gym and i saw my mates were like blowing up they were like oh yeah i just just go to the gym they were obviously doing other stuff as well but um the concept of the gym was just

there's this building people go to and they come out a little bit bigger. I didn't know what the machines were going to be. I didn't know they were going to be treadmills, dumbbells, whatever. I had no idea. So, like, being told, go to the gym, then do, like, bench press and do this, that, and the other. I had no idea what that was. So I needed to go in, see what the machines are to actually kind of, yeah,

made that mind reality connection. So I agree with what you're saying, Kyle. Did you just have any moments of, like, anxiety or nervousness that you can recall from your initial experiences honestly still doing going into different gyms now even the same ones that I would normally go to especially if I haven't been for a while you don't know who you're going to see you may see people that you really didn't want to bump into you may see brand new people only if you've been a dirty boy

Robert's um that quickly all right here's a question off the back of that not off the back of that not off the back of that but off the back of the anxiousness um what what probably helped is that the two of you both started off in the gym relatively early um do you think that like kids should be exposed to a gym environment from an early age because like i'm like i'm I know, Jay, you're probably the same as you've probably met a lot of people along the way who, like I had a, I've had,

I recently have had three of my members who are 65 plus who are step, who have stepped into the gym for the first time ever. And like that's, that's nerve, that's nerve wrecking for if you, if you didn't do that earlier on in

your life. Man, a huge, a huge chunk of my, um, client base is, 50, 55 and up that have never been inside in a gym and they're now being told I have to go do it.

Like I think as my oldest client 67 I think 67 and other ones about 60 and like they've never been in a gym before they don't like gyms obviously my gym's a little bit different it's more private

but like they're all being told to go to the gym and it's the idea of like it's one it's never too late to start but imagine how how much easier it would be if you went and being and not from an anxiety thing just from moving your body like you see the difference in people who've been active don't who've done some sort of resistance training don't they may not be hulking out in the gym three days a week, but they've done some kind of resistance training, some kind of cardio, and you can see the difference in how they move around when they're older. Like I always make the joke and I'm like, if I can't wipe my own arse today, it even as though would pull me down.

I want to be able to go up and down the stairs. I want to be able to do things. So like starting it easier. They're starting it earlier. Like you'll benefit from it long term. imagine imagine being 50, 50, 55 years old and you have 40 years

inside in the gym. Do you think it should be mandatory in school? Rob? No. Yeah. No. I think... Give me your layout of reasons why.

Yeah, yeah. I think it's a difficult one to say yes or no. But my, yeah, what I've been thinking along there was, um, I think it would be great for, people to go into gyms, see what they are, and like just be exposed to it so that later on down the line,

if they do then want to go to it, they're aware of what it might consist of. What do you think are the drawbacks of, let's say, having it as a part of your curriculum, let's say, one hour a week? Having things mandatory, like weightlifting and things like that. I've got, especially now with social media, I think there's a lot of pressure on, well, we know that there's a lot of pressure on body image and lifting really heavy weights and things like that.

And I think when you're developing, especially as a teenager, ego is, I mean, it's still a big thing for everyone, like for us guys as well, but ego as a teenager is a huge thing. And like, if you're going into the gym and you're like, oh, that guy's lifting that. You're going to want to lift that weight, if not more.

Especially there's... I have a counterargument on that. Yeah, go ahead. So, like, P is mandatory. And people are shit at sports. People don't like sports. They don't want to do it. Whereas, like, the gym is essentially more inclusive.

You could be very bad at playing sports, but you could be unbelievable. in the gym. Yeah, I agree. I know so many coaches who were like, oh, I never thought I was, I thought I could never be into fitness because I was never good at sport

and then they found a gym and then they became coaches off the back of that. You know, and like the other side of like, we do need it for our health. So like, forcing some kids to go out and kick around a ball when they really do not want to kick a ball. But getting the, like it doesn't mean

you have to have it mandatory, every job, every PE class on, but introducing him to him like John,

maybe we do 20 minutes of this, 30 minutes of this and maybe we try 30 minutes to the thing

you actually don't fucking like it all. And I also think if it's part of the school curriculum and they

bring in someone who's actually qualified in terms of training children. Yeah. It won't be like oh,

put this kid on a 100 kilo deadlift. It would be like let's create environment where people are able to pull up their,

or having having, having, having your P.E. coach trying to teach a bunch of rugby players how to pass a rugby ball when they're sixth year to school, 17, 18 years old, and your man doesn't know how to fucking do it himself. And I say, why are P.E. teachers always geography and history teachers. Now, what I would say is I agree with Rob in regards to the body image thing, but I don't think, I agree with what you're saying in regards to the body image thing and the gym can be a very body central.

body focused environment if it's done the incorrect way but we both know that there's there's vast different types of gym environments so like a crossfit gym will have no mirrors in it so it's not it's not focused on aesthetics it's focused on performance whereas you go to a commercial gym it might be mirrors everywhere and um you know how do you look when you're your training etc so um i understand that that would definitely be i put up my gym because I just got them I got them I got them for cheap enough and I was like oh why not and to this day I regret putting them up there really yeah they're locked in yeah they're locked in in a frame and the squat rack that's rogue squat rack I'd have I'd move that to the side and I'd bolt in

another squat I'd get rid of the mirrors like that because even I know there's clients that don't like doing certain exercises in front of the mirror there's clients that do like doing certain exercises in the mirror. So if I'm laying out the room for a group session, I know who's going to be in front of the mirror and who's not going to be in front of the mirror. Yeah. But going back to that, I am changing my mind a little bit. So you are right in terms of, well, I think part of why I disagreed was I disagree with some of the sports in P being mandatory, like you were saying, Joe, like if someone that really doesn't like or doesn't benefit from football

a lot of the type like some there'll be a group that's really not good at it and then they get taken to the side to do another sport or a different version and or they do the same thing that's just embarrassing and sometimes the PET2 just so egotistical that they just take the piss out of them and they bully them and then they're scared of exercise

later down the line like if there is like you say an environment where they can just go sit down move a couple of weights here and there but they're getting told how to do it. What they're benefiting from it. I think that could be invaluable. It could be invaluable. 100%.

So yeah, I'm changing my mind. I think especially as exercise in general is mandatory as school. I think having the gym as an inclusive part of that would be on. Especially no. Do you know, after after Terjair, we didn't have to do PD. Actually, it's not we didn't have to do PEP. he wasn't even a subject

Yeah Which I think is Because if it was me With my personality Put me put me down Put me in a classroom For eight hours a day And see how I thrive

Not very well That happened That fucking was Yeah I was Well then back to the Back to the inclusivity thing And like

My man There was a good athletics club Inside Limerick Like a very good one And she sent us in there When she was was young because like we were into sports like we played everything like good swimming uh hurling soccer um gaelic football all that so she sent us into the athletics club now i made to run around a field

chasing a ball and hitting off things i'm not made for fucking sprinting against other people jo it's not it's a different kind of it's a different kind of athleticism that i'm i'm good over 15 meters you struggle to catch me in 15 meters but after that it's not working so she sent us in and the first thing they threw me into was hurdles like yeah exactly man exactly so went tried it like couldn't

couldn't get it right like Joe he was either jump over it properly but not be able to run fast you know what I would have to true into if I was fast I would have made you do the javelin trow now man this is the funny part with it and coach came up to me

and he was like I'm going to take you over here and he brought me into he brought me into this kind of big squash room that they used for all this stuff as well and he handed me a shot put and he was like, I want you to launch that off the wall. So I did that and he was like,

do you like doing that? I'm like, this is great. Give me a way to throw around the place and I was good at that. I love shot puttut as well. Yeah, man, it's fucking brilliant. What's the one with the chain with the weight on the end of us?

The hammer's up. I would love to try that. It was so much fun. but like that's the idea is like mind John like I had one coach that was couldn't wouldn't leave me quit doing the hurdles another guy was like

I think I know what what you will be good at so let you have a bit of a minute and it's still a part of an athletics club I think the the sports and everything and the athletics that are done in PE is great that they're being done but I honestly

know a lot of people don't like it but I feel like it should be prioritised a bit more and I shouldn't be saying this is a maths teacher, but over certain aspects of maths and maybe not science, because I think that is pretty essential with a lot of things, but some

subjects, I think you could dial it back a little bit. RER-CSP. What's that? Civic, social, political education, isn't it? I don't know, because I think it's good to have an idea of all of all that. We're not saying it's

not good to have an idea of it, but people rarely fucking learn anything. What I'm saying is like, right, there's things that are foundational that you need to make sure that you have there every week. Like people need to learn how to write to read to, you know, I think geography and history and like English and I think all them things are really important as a certain point as well. But it's like an hour a week you could, I'm sure you could create the schedule to, you know, give people an hour in the gym once a week or a, I don't. And on top of that, maybe they do PE once a week as well. And you like, and they, and they change up the, the, the, the, the curriculum in the PE so that, you know, you're, you're exposed to all different kinds of sports. You do it once. You don't like it. You won't do it again. If you really fall in love with it, you might go and find the club where it's like, oh, you know, I, I played tennis for the first time or I did long distance running and I was really good at it. Maybe that's something that I could pursue further. I mean, I don't think there's wrong. I don't think there's wrong. anything wrong with trying to encourage kids to play sports that they've never played before

and like a lot of the times you're probably not going to be good at them but that just means that okay well the more things i try the more things i know that i don't want to do and then that pushes me in the directions of the things that i am going to do and it highlights whether or not team sports versus individual sports or technical sports versus just group strength force like sports and stuff which one's best for you yeah no I agree I think if you can kind of sprinkle a little bit of nutrition in there as well it would be amazing well yeah well I think that should could that should come hand-on-hand with the gym stuff as well because it could be all right this is like all right we see a lot of kids especially like in this tix-hoc era where they're going to be on extremely

low-calorie diets trying to you know be as skinny as they can and look a certain way and you know getting proper nutrition education that you know maybe you need this amazing amount of calories and this amount of protein and this amount of carbs and you know this is going to fuel your train and and focus and like I think that's all going to be that's that's all going to contribute to probably a healthier body image on top of uh I think as long as it's sorry as as it targeted towards the word that you just use there that it will fuel you for it rather than you need to cut those calories to look this way to become this athlete yeah well I don't think any decent if you let's say you're going to hire a

a decent dietitian or nutritionist. I mean, they usually always speak about nutrition from a health standpoint rather than, you know, the people that you're going to get to get you on, like, excessively low calories, like, yeah, they might have a certificate in nutrition, but realistically, they're a physique coach, they're not a... If they're, if they're talking to kids about diets, you should be kicking them out of the room. Yeah, if they're talking to kids, but if they're in the classroom talking about dieting, they're probably not, they're probably not the people you should be hiring for for this kind of work. I don't know for definitely

but I feel like there are a lot of people that work with kids that are like if you're overweight you can't be a track athlete or you can't be doing this like you need to

that's that's I think that's a lot of idiots older yeah older those those are still very much yeah

I have I've I've go on I'll go then I have clients I have older clients who are have GPs, doctors who are a bit older who tell them they shouldn't lift weights or they shouldn't do certain types of exercise and stuff with that. And like what my clients kind of love now at the

moment is the fact that they go, well, let's not listen to that. Let's see how it goes. So like I have clients who are told they should never squat. They squat. Don't know. It's avoiding it. Avoiding it isn't going to fucking help. But it does seem to be a thing of a certain age bracket of those health professionals, the advice that's given is an old, an old way of looking at things. Back on your point there, Rob, about the coach is like, oh, you shouldn't be doing track because you're overweight or you shouldn't be doing this because you're too short or you're too tall or you're too skinny or whatever it is. Like, there are coaches that aren't qualified to coach kids because coaching kids is like, if you're, if you're worried about a kid being good

enough or not being good enough in a specific sport it's because you're focused on your ego if you want them kids who are going to win things for you rather than just improving uh that kid in that sport by letting them actually enjoy it and play and hoping their enjoyment of life yeah yeah yeah yeah your your your your your your coaching is is egocentric it's it's about you rather than about the kids which is like and i don't know i used to hate this even in football when we're younger and stuff like that and you would have certain coaches who like you know they clearly didn't know how to coach kids they didn't clearly didn't know how to put on a training session um they clearly were just like focused on like instead of improving the development of that child by just

creating an environment where they could just play as much as possible and improve the skill they were like okay we need to win next week so we need to do you know x y and z it's like mate you're training under eights just let them play football and get better that have been rather than you being worried of whether you win two-nil or three-nil against an opposing town like it's it's like i think long term for those kids in that team as well if you're focusing on um competitiveness and winning and putting that pressure on from the get-go yes i think that benefits some but it also limits their beliefs of what's going on so like you're less open to

try in different things in your training sessions risking that different kind of pass you're kind of just like obsessed with you also you also start

to lose the enjoyment exactly the reason you first step and when I found that with rugby like when I when I stopped playing what 19 or something like that for a while

after hurting my shoulder I actually felt like I was free from it yeah it was something you were doing every day of the week it was, you know, you were been, I remember been 18, 17, 18 years old and having my diet marshaled by a coach. You know, and it's, I'm around grey coach.

I've said it in another podcast as well before. Grey coach, but just the way it was done made me hate. It was, it made me hate the way you had to eat, the way you have to train. It was like, I want to go out and throw around the ball and have a bit of crack with it. Like, I'll play better. I'll play better if you let me do this. Yeah, and that's why I was good. It's like if you're part of a team that is enjoying it, they're going along the journey,

they've lost a lot of games, they've laughed it off, they've gone, oh, let's come back to the drawing board, let's try this, you develop a team mentality around fun and so you enjoy the game. So you then go, do you know what, I really enjoy this game? I want to be really good at this. And then you have that intrinsic motivation rather than the extrinsic pressure of doing well. because when you have that extrinsic pressure it's not for you it's for

parents or the coach everyone else yeah and then you end up falling out with other people going against the grain or whatever whereas if you actually genuinely develop a team mentality and a family mentality you want to win for everyone else

and for yourself don't you there's so many examples of like kids who were like supposed to be the prodigy of their sport when they were younger and then because they were put so much under so much pressure from their parents or their coaches to um you know perform and be be great at that sport that they actually they lost the enjoyment of the sport they ended up resenting the sport they actually retire quit early or they self-sabotage and you know start

drinking and doing things that yeah and man i know i know so many of the the next best rugby players and I don't have enough fingers to count how many don't play anymore. John, it does, it does ruin it like John,

even like my brother was playing there a while back and he was getting, he was getting paid with the club and it was kind of like, John, you're playing club rugby. Now it's AIL, it's Division I.

but like, it wasn't your job. Like, you're a grown-up, John, you're not going to make it as a career. Joe, it could also damage you from doing lots of other things. So he started to lose the enjoyment of it. And I think was it one season,

then he was finishing his master's or something, they offered to pay him again, and he said no. And he was like, you can't own me if you don't pay me. Yeah. And that's a sport we've played since we're like five, seven years old.

Like John, it's you could get paid to play this club game. But like, you have a coach, ring your boss. to see if you can get out of work earlier for something that's involved. It's like, look, you may be trying to make a professional.

Yes, it is senior club rugby division one, but like when things go tits up, the club aren't going to keep your life going. Yeah. I think that's why it's important for coaches to be educated on, okay, you're coaching kids versus your coaching competitive athletes. Yeah.

And like having them, conversations with competitive athletes should be a lot different, you know. Yeah, it's your, it's your career. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's it. It's whether it's a career, fun, or you're just out there to play. Yeah. And I know there's probably a, there's probably a little bit of a gray area where you're,

let's say, 14, 15 on the, on the cuff of maybe you, you have a lot of potential and you might be on the cuff of going from semi-professional to professional or amateur to semi-professional and like you might get hard conversations from coaches that are like right well you're too weak at the moment you need to get to the gym and get bigger because of you know you can't have people knocking you off the ball etc or whatever it is like there is a there is a fair middle ground in in that kind of a yeah a conversation um but i don't think it's for eight-year-olds or six-year-olds no it's it's normally it's normally 15 16 years old yeah that's that's my experience with it as well like i i heard one recently about um i won't give too much

detail on it but like they it was it was a player's parents given out that they weren't getting enough playing time on a team which jill was understandable when you're probably like joh under six is under eights under ten's under twelves but this is a senior team and the child's 19. So it kind of gets to a point where... Sorry, there is no such thing as a child at 19. Yeah, well, I just

try to, I just try to remind and just say how ridiculous it. It's kind of like, well, you're just not fucking good enough. Yeah. You know, like, it does get to that point where it's just like... And like, you, like, at some stage, you have to accept that as well that you're, you're not good enough to play for this.

And if you want to, and if you want to start, you got to get better. Yeah. Or if you don't agree with the coach, go play for someone else and see if you can start for them and prove them wrong. Yeah. And if that doesn't work out, then just don't go back. Yeah. If that doesn't work out, then, well, the coach was probably right. Yeah. Unfortunately, you know. So we're kind of, we're, we're, we're in a middle ground that maybe the gym should be gym.

Jim, gym, cans of monster and loads of creatine and that should all be introduced at 13 years of age and secondary school. Are you agree, Rob? A little bit of Oliver after third year? If they'd given me Ken's a monster when I was 1213, it would have settled me down with everything I know now. I think being aware that it's a supplement to what you should already be doing is fun. But like, yes, activity outside of the classroom

should be prioritised. gym is a supplement to that in my opinion. How do you think both of your approach to training approach to exercise has evolved over the years? It's a mutated monster, I think. It fluctuated so much from, I think it was weightlifting to start off with just for assets. because I didn't really go heavy.

It just went high reps. Went to uni. Literally just went to the gym for mental health. Didn't do anything with a target. It was a break from work. It was a bit of movement. It kind of felt good. Then it was for a social scene.

And then it turned into cardio and felt really good because I was like, the endorphins were amazing. Then I bumped into some power lifter guys and realized that was quite strong. Did that. That felt really good. ego-wise, but then my cardio took a plummet. I started putting on weight. I didn't feel comfortable

with how my body was and how I moved. Went back to classes and now it's kind of just I'm doing a mixture of all of it because I know I enjoy all of it and I'll just turn up to the gym. Don't really have a program at the minute, which I think I would make a lot more progress from if I did have one. But I'm just enjoying going to the gym consistently throughout my life. rather than doing a program consistently for three months. So would you say that in terms of your approach to fitness and exercise or even your mindset, that you're more open-minded to, it doesn't have to be very specific, individualized, you know, you can just train for the sake of train and whatever that looks like.

Unless you have a particular goal that you want to hit and you are, your drive in the gym is motivated by hitting a particular target, I think just turning up. up doing something that feels good in the moment, social, using the gym as a social tool, whatever it is that you want to do, if you just turn up and do something, it's good enough. You don't hit that target. Do you think it's more powerful the facts that though you're intrinsically motivated to train regardless of an external goal? Yeah, so I'm very, as in, I'm quite fortunate that I know that I enjoy it.

I know that it feels good. I know all of that stuff. I've got that intrinsic drive. if someone doesn't really have that, then yeah, it's going to be harder. You kind of need that external push, don't you? Like, goal to hit. Yeah, yeah.

What about you, Jeremy? Sorry, go ahead, Rob. I think if you just focus on that goal and then you hit it and you haven't focused on everything else, I don't really feel like it actually gives you that much genuine satisfaction overall, because then you're just like, I need to hit the next goal.

It's like that. It's like that meme that I always share. It's like, uh, didn't hit my goal, agony. Hit my goal. Okay. I feel, I feel nothing ever. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's move to the next one. Yeah, let's move. That didn't feel like it was supposed to feel let's move. We need to make the goal bigger. It's never enough. Although on the flip side, I do feel like I also don't necessarily. signpost my achievements that much. So sometimes I get less satisfaction with my training

because I am just doing it in the background. Share your wins, Roberts. Share your wins. Exactly. Would you tell you... I just think... Would you tell a student shared our wins? Not too frequently.

I think celebrate their own wins, but not... Not... I wouldn't want to focus on it too much as a you have to achieve this to actually be happy I think just accepting

whatever you're doing is good I like sharing my failures training it makes you a little bit tougher into like John like it's as you said like it's great when you hit a target inside the gym that you wanted

or out running or whatever it is but then you're like all right I'll go again I kind of enjoy sharing the failed lifts the failed runs I've talked to people more about like not enjoying running

than the certain parts I do enjoy about like I joke to one of the lads the only reason the only reason I'm enjoying running now is because I'm showing up for the thick boys yeah the thick people that's not failing or is that really failing or is that winning because you're not it's winning but like I've had

I've had a lot of runs where I've gone out like and I've had to fucking stop and they've been shorter distances than I've done before and I'm like all right yeah great it doesn't fail in lifts failing runs any of that it doesn't really bother me anymore

but it's the the whole yeah you do celebrate your wins but it is that thing is once you fucking hit that target then you're like all right well I'm going to go on again that's also a reason why it would be good to have kids in a gym environment because it's one of the few places where you can go and fail

and it's looked at in a positive mindset rather than a negative mindset. You're pursuing failure. You're looking to get to stage where you can't get another rep in. And you can work on it. You can work on it again and change the result.

Like it's a big difference between losing a match you played last weekend. You can't play that game again. A game is gone. The game is over. Whereas you fail a squad or something like that. You fix a few things. you keep going back at it, you might get it in the next week or two.

That's kind of what I do with my teaching as well. You're talking about working with my students. Like, I will verbalise them. It's great if you get the right answer, obviously, because it shows you understand what's going on. But the thing I actually want you to do is give me an answer, show me a working. If it's wrong, we'll work through it together.

But it's the actual sharing of the experience and sharing of their understanding that I celebrate the most. But I think if they get it right, it's awesome. But I don't want them to feel like the only time they... I don't want them to feel like the only time that they have achieved is when they've got it right. The time they've achieved is when they... There's too much pressure then to be...

It's too black and white. You're either right or wrong. You're past or fail. It's like... I don't necessarily agree with, like, trophies for... I mean, I do agree with celebrating participation for sure. but like if you top goal scorer you get the top top goal scorer trophy you don't get second third fourth fifth sixth seventh eight ninth because you didn't win it but like

celebrate the the participation still yeah yeah makes sense makes sense like uh when i get my members to celebrate like let's say they've had they're very inconsistent with their training or they've been they've been gone for a while like the win is them actually showing up in the gym rather than what they do in the gym exactly I noticed you posted the other day was a guy doing 100 sessions or something

yeah yeah yeah yeah so like you didn't say anything about what lifts he'd achieved obviously I think it's great to celebrate the lift still but I don't think you said anything about that was just he's been here 100 times that's fucking awesome he's showing up he's participated he's become he's part of the to the family.

Yeah. Yeah. Rather than, oh, you've lost 10 kilos, let's give you a trophy for the best transformation, which I don't really approve of them. Same idea is like if a client misses a lift or struggles on a certain exercise and they start to feel down and you just say,

do you remember when you couldn't do the lightest weight of this exercise? you know, look how far you've come. And like, it's like, I do love your 100, 100 session posts. Because especially with people who, like, may not have gone to the gym before. And then, like, they feel down that they might have missed today or their nutrition has lapsed a bit or blah, blah, blah. I'm like, you've put down 100 sessions of something you used not do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You've turned up a hundred times for your side. Yeah, that's amazing, like, that's huge. Like, it is the, like, I don't think, like, we, everyone talks about, like, you know, celebrating the journey and stuff like that and blah, blah, blah. But I don't think people look at it in the sense that, like, look at where you are now

and reflect back on where it started. Like, I had a client that can do a static lunge with 17 and a half kilos in each hand, and they were given out that they were having a bit of a wobble. And I was like, I just looked at them, I was like, you couldn't do this for body weight when we started. And they were like, oh, yeah, but now. And I'm like, no, no, no, let's like, let's not be nice.

I'm like, you were fucking shit at it when we started. I was like, you know, you fucking sucked. You suck. But I was like, but you're holding 35 kilos now. You are a weak piece of shit before you met me. I do it with a smile. It's okay. I owe you now.

It's bad idea. My coaching tactics are coming out. Yeah, yeah. But no, you're right. You're absolutely right. Yeah, I fundamentally agree. All right. What about, I never asked you,

what has your approach to exercise changed over the years? Like, where would you say it is now? If you were to say like your philosophy around train and around exercise or just your mindset around that. Like Rob's mutated monster, mine started with performance. obviously through sports and stuff

it started with performance then I fell off doing it I got back into exercise through rugby in the state so my cardio went through the roof and I remember when I first came home my brother brought me to the gym and I couldn't bench 40 kilos

and I was like oh well fuck that I was like we need to get some strength back then I'd say where you would have called me a gym person gym bro was at the height of height of my eating disorder and heavy body you magicious.

Yeah. And I was going five, six days a week, over training, no increase in performance. You were training for vanity. It was all about how you looked. And it's now come back to performance. Like, I think I was talking to someone about it the other day. It was, we talk about, you know, the body, your body being your business cards in this, in this industry.

And like, I can put my hand up and say that for, like, for, like, you know, Like most people's stereotypical coach or trainer, I don't have the aesthetic that most people would regard as fit. But I can lift double my body weight and I can go run 10 kilometres. Fitness is literally being able to do what you need to do, regardless of what that is. Like if you are able to do your job and live your life, you off.

And I, like with your body being your business card, I always say my business card is how my clients feel before and after they train. Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's my business case. I'm like, but yeah, it's like, it is now performance. It's completely performance. The stronger, stronger and fitter I am, more endurance. It's, that's what challenges me now.

Like, and I always, I've always come back to the, if you tweak your nutrition here and there, the vanity side of it will take care of itself of your training heritage. Like with CrossFit, there's no mirrors but everyone looks fucking amazing. Yeah. What about yours, Carl? What's your fitness?

I am turning towards longevity in my old age. My lower back is starting to hurt and I'm adding in some Jefferson curls. I'm starting to like add in some lateral lunges that I never would have done before just so I can move on a certain way. I'm gonna start adding in like some even though I played sport throughout my 20s I never really did much pliometrics and stuff like that even though I probably should have and but now I'm thinking like oh my knees are a little bit sore my hips are a little bit sore maybe I should be adding in some like vertical jumps and like things where I'm landing on one one leg I carry one knee you're just you're creeping up in your mid 30s that's what's happened yeah that's what it is it's like I'm love you have sorry

have you ever done kickbacks properly? Yeah. Yeah. We've a kickback machine in the gym. Sweet. I was going to say because I was getting really bad lower back and everything and then I started doing those,

like not heavy, just really nice control, aging the glute. And my lower back has been so much. I will stand by that that my handstring and glue training is dipped over the last while and now I can feel a tightness

in my back. from doing more deskware. I use hammer, fucking glutes and hamstrings. Never, like, obviously had a little lower back issue here and there, mostly from over-training

and not doing my rehab. If my physio-watched this at all, I will say pre-hab is the way to go. Yeah. He'll love that. All right. All right, we'll leave it there. I think that conversation didn't go anywhere

where I thought it was going to go. anyway about children and the gym and you know but anyway don't make that the clip you share yeah yeah yeah we spent an hour talking about the youths it's all right until next week yeah thanks a million folks pleasure as always see you