The Uneducated PT Podcast - Episode 131 – Weddings, Money, and the Psychology of Cost Signalling

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

In this episode, Ger and Rob dive deep into the world of weddings, money, and why people spend the way they do. From oversized engagement rings to €30k wedding days, the lads explore the evolutionary psychology behind costly signalling: the idea that we prove our commitment, status, or certainty through expensive behaviours that are hard to fake. They break down the research on wedding spending and divorce, why big weddings sometimes mask insecurity rather than confidence, and how social media has completely changed how couples perform love in public. The conversation also touches on Irish wedding culture, the pressure to keep up appearances, and whether people today are more focused on the marriage… or the spectacle. Expect honesty, laughs, uncomfortable truths, and a fresh look at why humans spend big to show they care. If you’ve ever wondered why weddings cost so much, why people feel the need to show their love through price tags, or whether the “big day” actually says anything about the relationship itself, this episode is for you.

Hello and welcome to the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carlo Rourke. The goal of this podcast is to bring on interest and knowledgeable people from all walks of life, learn a little something from each conversation and for you, the listener, to learn something from each episode. So don't forget to subscribe to the channel, press the box below, show some support, and I'll see you on the next episode. What are we talking about? Okay, so I'll tell you exactly what we're talking about.

But before I tell you what we're talking about, I need to ask you some questions. So question number one I'll start with you are Tell me about the best wedding That you've ever been to What you know Best wedding I've ever been to Oh

That's a tough one now Because I've loads of different factors Whether I like the food or not Like best food wedding I've been to We're two of my clients up in Clock Jordan and Tip That was the best food I did have good fun at that wedding as well

I think the loosest the loosest wedding was a friend's wedding on in the States I do remember seeing the bride at like was it maybe four in the morning at the after after party and it was kind of like a walk through

the woods from the hotel to go to like a house where there's a DJ and stuff and her white dress was ripped and black about halfway up from the dirt of running through the forest and messing inside in the house it was a

it was a heavy heavy weekend question would you do a similar wedding if it was your own to either of them um I always had this idea of getting kind of married in

like no no no no I'm a lot more tasteful than that that'll be the after party later on um In like a little woods, that would be near a lake or the sea, preferably the sea, but like, John, you could have a big, huge kind of open marquee. Like, I joke to one of the lads, like, how do you pick out food for a wedding?

Because I like so many different things that I think I'd have to do, like, some buffet style of every bit of food I like. But I think, yeah, getting married kind of little lanterns, fairy lights, simple one inside and, like, a sheltered woods. And then going out to this, like, big, cool marquee that's looking out onto the water. How much would you be willing to spend on your wedding?

Myself and the lads worked out one time how much a wedding would cost you if you did it all yourself and we're fairly sure with the amount of guests you'd invite

40k for the wedding and you'd make 10 grand. So 30 grand you'd be looking to spend? well if you spent the 40 you'd be getting 50 back somehow i think it's i think it's 40 30 40 was one around those i don't know like i think i could do it for cheaper but like i i've seen some i know someone that spent like fucking 90k on their wedding and i was talking to someone because a friend of mine just told me he was getting married there uh in february they're going they're going really quickly and uh i was like if you get me 90 grand to throw a party

all right throw party you'd be dead 90 grand are you insane like I can't draw for that Rob best wedding you've been to

ah it's a difficult one to answer um I've been to quite a few good ones my sisters was pretty good that was quite laid back and chilled to be fair

how many people were at it what did she do Ah, that's a great question. Anywhere between maybe like 50 to 70, like not the actual wedding itself. Although there are quite a few people there as well. Yeah, probably like 70, 75 people.

That's a lot. Is that? Well, it can't be. This was for like a party bit afterwards. At the wedding itself, there wasn't that many. And they, it was pretty, it was like at a village hall and they did like some KD dancing

and things like that. It was quite sociable. Kids were allowed. which I know some people don't like but they served the food to the they served the food to the guests so they were stood there in the park but you know a lot of the time people walk past

and they shake hands and they go oh congratulations that was the congratulations bit they were like serving the first snack or whatever what the bride and groom were yeah I like that I like that I do like that just a nice bit of social and I think the fact that it felt quite real. It didn't feel like too much of a show. I think that's probably

partly why it's one of my favourite. How much would you be willing to spend? Let's say you meet the perfect woman and do you want to get married. How much would you be willing to spend on the wedding day? Are the parents? Her parents not paying? Back in the day, yeah, that's how it should have been.

You're going to get 20 goats and a load of money is a... Do you know what? I don't know. Anything over a few grand sounds like quite a lot of money to me um i'd rather spend more money over a longer period of time like getting mates and family together more frequently than just spending like 70 80 grand on one wedding but honeymoon yeah and honeymoon as well like having an actual explorer afterwards um i don't know 20 grand okay just want to know why i'm asking you're getting married to a russian

no because obviously i was i was i went down this rabbit hole of looking at this research study and I thought it was interested and I wanted to share it which is so in Ireland the wedding industry according to recent figures from one fab day and weddingsonline.a the average Irish couple spends between 25 to 30 grand

on their big day with many reporting costs that far exceed that once the honeymoon, the dress the extras are counted for venues and food take day two yeah day two photographer music

Meanwhile, engagement rings often treated as a public sign of commitment can easily cost three to five grand depending on the stone and the brand. So you could be, you know, if you followed the norms, you could be spending up to 50, 60, 70, 80K altogether. And then why I wanted to, why I looked that up was because I was reading this research study from relationship between spending and stability. has been examined in a survey 2014 by Andrew Franz Tan and Hugo Milan title. The Diamond is forever and other fairy tales. The relationship between wedding expenses and marriage duration. So surveyed more than 3,000 people, 3,000 married individuals in the United States. Now it's in the United States, it's 3,000 people.

So it is correlation, not causation. Obviously I want to make that abundantly clear before reading these out though, because obviously just people who can spend a lot of money on a marriage and live happy married lives. But higher wedding costs over 20 grand were significantly associated with higher risk of divorce. Lower wedding costs, particularly 10 grand or under, were correlated with longer lasting marriages. Likewise, men who spent more on engagement rings were more likely to experience shorter marriages. Now, interesting enough in the survey as well, number of guests had the opposite effect. So more guests predicted greater marriage stability. And they have a few suggestions

why that could be stronger social ties and stuff like that. But also, you would also think that, well, you might have stronger social ties with less people, but a closer bond than like inviting a whole bunch of people. Anyway, but in short, the data suggests that financial extravagance does not buy marriage happiness and might even undermine it. The researchers speculated that death stress, materialism and status signaling pressures could all erode satisfaction and stability over time. And this goes into something called cost signaling theory that I was looking up basically, which is basically a concept from economics and evolutionary.

biology which basically the theory holds that for a signal to be credible it means that there must be a cost so think about like uh you know basically the more i spend on this wedding the more it shows that i'm committed to this relationship that i'm committed to this person the more i spend on an engagement ring for this person shows the more uh that i love this person and that i'm committed to being with this person where it could be the case where someone who you or a couple who are very um very confident and comfortable in their relationship might not need might not feel they need to spend an abundance on the marriage to suggest that they're committed to each other or that they love each other. That's kind of what I was thinking with that last statement

if they don't feel the need to spend it it's it's just about yeah and if they spend if they're overspending or spending a lot of money it it's either they're not happy so they're trying to overcom and say for something they're not happy with. Or to piss on contests with other people. That or they just generally prioritise materialistic objects and they're not going to be happy with the human relationships that they've got.

A funny one about the engagement rings. There was there a couple of years ago. I think it was Dubai diamonds or something. It was some lady out in Dubai was bringing back cheaper cuts of diamonds for like, John, like just buying engagement rings. and I think like a ring that might cost five grand might be two.

Now, don't quote me on the exact fucking numbers, but I know it's way cheaper to go that route. And what I found funny was a load of people that got engaged, generally working in finance or something around those kind of jobs, all bought those rings, and most of them looked the exact same. So like going like to, like relating it to like cheaper weddings. Like cheap is cheap. is subjective like

when you say 20 grand for a wedding because of what I've seen before I do think 20 grand is cheap for a wedding but if you also ask me to pay 20 grand tomorrow for a wedding I'd be like oh fuck

do you think that it is it seems cheap for a wedding because you've been socially conditioned to believe that oh you should be spending 20 grand on a wedding yeah yeah I don't think I've been to a wedding that's cheaper than 20 grand man

and I mean by a long shot not even 20 grand it almost seems like one of those numbers that's been thrown out there like the 10,000 steps a day almost like oh 20 grand let's put that number on it that's the target now I think it was more socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s to just go down to the registry

office get married and then go for field and celebrate with like friends it was it was also way cheaper man yeah like I look at all the actually good one I'd say I was probably about 17 18 I went to I went to two different cousins weddings

on different side of the families and one was my dad's side and it was his my uncle's only daughter and it was a huge wedding like he bought everyone at the at the wedding around for a toast of whatever the fuck you want to double this whatever I would have thought that was quite a costly wedding because I couldn't tell you what numbers were there

but there was like I'm one of 31 grandchildren so there's second cousins and friends and friends of business and everyone like that so there were so many people there and the other cousin's wedding was pretty feck and hefty as well like you don't you don't think about like just the food like you're paying for the hotel

like I don't know what the story was with like corking fees and different things that you're paying for everything it's not a you get to take home all this and the day two then whether they're paying for that open bar for a certain period amount of time um like that wedding i went in the state that had an open bar um the real joy of that wedding i was the only irish person there her parents loved me and like every time her dad would walk by he was like make sure you get up to the bar it's free until 11 o'clock and i was like don't worry i have my own tray but like I don't know how much drink

got through at that wedding and that in my head would have been on the cheaper side of weddings even though it was still fancy as fancy as fuck was up in Maine it was on a lake location it was pretty fucking cool but does that not sound of madness to you

that if you think about it logically that you're just throwing basically 20 grand behind the bar to pay for drinks for people who like realistically you might have like you might talk to them for about two seconds in the night like let's say if you have a if you have a guest list of like 300 people right and like I'm going to a wedding now um or I'm supposed

to be going to a wedding anyway next year and there's like there's like there's like 300 quid for your room and then you have to pay for your sue and then you'll have your drink and all and I'm like I'm going to be dropping about 500 600 quid to just go to a glorified party really yeah probably only gonna I'm not even going to have a proper conversation with with these two people getting married because they're going to be so busy with so many people that like no one like they're never they're not really they're not they're celebrating with everyone but they're also not really celebrating with anyone if that makes sense i have i have a friend that only does stags yeah that's i'm he does he does the he does the stag and then he got caught i think now

a couple of years of doing he got called out one night and a night out by one of the girls and he was like i'm just going to stop you there and he was like if you have a black to wedding, I need to rent a tux. I need to pay for a hotel room that I'm going to be in for about three, four hours at most. I have to give you a gift after you invite me to a party.

He was like, any other cost that comes up from it, he was like, would be there as well. And he was like, I don't mind drinking with the lads. That was his closing point. He was just like, you pay not even a third of the price.

Like, Stags normally jumped into a feckin hostel. So it's, it's cutting costs. It's about putting in as much drink and laughs as you can. So, like, weddings are quite costly. Like, hotel room, like, hotel room could be three, four, if not, three, four, if not more, like, depending on where you go. It's nuts. And also, like, I can think off the top of my head now, three or four, three or four couples I know who, you know they true a great one a great parent and divorced after that

yeah and like it's so strange as well it's like someone one of them like one of them is my cousin and like he was with this girl for like eight nine years and like they from the outside in solid as a rock the minute they got married then they split up and I think they're still going through the divorce

and I think a lot of people hold on to the idea of their relationship that you know are like you know the especially the woman is going to be like she wants the wedding day you know what I mean she wants the way she wants the intention and stuff like that and then she's probably holding on to that idea in her head that that will solve all the issues and the relationship thrown that big wedding all about her and then the minute they have the wedding then and they realize that oh now like I have to spend you know my monday and day is with this person it's like all right shit maybe i made the wrong decision some people see the the wedding day as the like pinnacle of their life don't they and like

as soon as that's done it's the best day of their life what's next yeah so yeah well it's also like you it only moves aunt kids to fix it yeah well that's that would be even worse but like it's like they see them they see the married they see the as the as the as the like the the the completion of the of the of the of the of the marriage but realistically that's just now you're only getting started now you have to spend our next 50 years with that person don't josh just on weddings the ones i've actually the parts of them that i've really enjoyed at certain weddings is you know the big the top table you know of everyone the the groomsmen the parents all that stuff some of the weddings where i've seen uh the couples sitting at a

table on their own, I think is the loveliest thing ever. I like, you're inviting everyone to your parents. Like, fuck off. It's your day. Like, I hear about weddings where people like barely get to eat anything. John, they're sitting down for a moment and someone's pulling them off to do to do something or they have to go talk to someone else. And I tell him out, if I get married, that's not going to be happening. I'm going to eat every bit of food that I've decided I want on that day. I'm going to chill out with my wife. I'm not going to be pulled and dragged around the place. Like, I do think you can do a good party for a lower price. Well, essentially, you're just, instead of enjoying your wedding day,

you're just being on an event planner and stressing about everyone else rather than enjoying the day. And going, I'm going broke over it. Well, yeah, that's the other thing. Like, don't know, the weddings that are up like 90, 100, 150 even. Like, I can understand if you have the money. Yeah. I get it right but would you not do a cheaper wedding

and use like let's say 150 would you not use 50K to travel the world they've probably already got 100 aside for that as well you don't know yeah I think a lot of people do go broke spending all their money on their wedding and this goes back to the cost signal in theory that I was talking about

so what was they did I try to pull out this article so these findings sit in a world where divorce is easier and faster than ever before in Ireland reforms over the past decade have made the process far more accessible marriage today depends less on religious or legal permits and more on a personal choice when it becomes easier to leave couples often feel the need to demonstrate that their bond is strong weddings become a stage where commitment is performed rather than assumed so like

back in the day you would like marriage was all about like just a legal bonding for like I don't know you know you're bringing two families together, you know, whether it's two kings from different countries, or it's like something to do with property. Like it was more... Connecting kingdoms and stuff. Yeah, yeah, it was more... It was a business thing.

It was a business, it was a financial thing to increase the status of your family or of the clans or whatever it was. Like, it was a business transaction, essentially more so. And then obviously there was the religious element of that, like marriages till death. And then obviously now, yeah, well, obviously now that divorce is like so easily accessible compared to back then, it's like, all right, well, the commitment, the commitment isn't as great now in terms of marriage. You kind of can't, you can argue against it being easier to get divorced because there's lots of situations where it being tough to get divorced has led to lots of like abuse and different stuff like that. I don't think it's easy

but it is easier because it was legal back then. Yeah, but the religious... Illegal. The religious one I find interesting and was only talking to someone about this the other day there's a...

There's a guy that lives around here facilitated a grow house and I think they were like breeding dogs and different stuff as well like John went to jail for a couple of years I think he's a bit of a wanker. I don't like I don't know him personally but it interacts with other people

but he went jail for a couple of years his wife is devout religious fanatic like to know and said to someone even with him going to prison she can't leave because she took vows so like it is the idea that probably wants to leave yeah but that's what i mean like if yeah if you take marriage seriously like that then you already have that high commitment but because there isn't a high commitment now because people just you know go through two or three or four divorces in a lifetime it's like okay so how do i show my actual commitment to the how do i signal my commitment to this person or to this marriage it's like i'm going to spend more and more money more more money than my neighbor more money than you know to

trisha down the road so it's like the cost of weddings has actually increased over time not just because you know the the cost of living has increased yeah because it's become more of a show of of my commitment rather than the actual marriage itself and being like well i'm i'm going to stay with this person until i die yeah like i think i talk i think i talked to someone about before where like having a small wedding where you have like parents closest members of family your like strongest friendships at a small intimate wedding know maybe somewhere abroad you know so you do somewhere small small little like weekend away and then come back and throw an absolute session then for everyone else that you would actually don't think about inviting to a standard wedding do you know

because it's it is like it's some of the money's fucking crazy like so for for three days two it's nuts i went to my my brother's wedding up in denmark uh oh yeah was it august or july or something like that and they had a tiny wedding and i was like you're not going to invite x y and z you're not going to invite this person i'm not going to invite this person like and i was i was questioned on it and then i went to it and you know it was only like 15 15 people there and it was lovely it was the nice yeah they went up to denmark they went to the um up to the to the main castle or wherever you go in in and and and and and And they got married.

It was a lovely little, little ceremony. It was only about 15, 20 minutes. Your man just said a few words. He was really good. And then we went out for like wine tasting and a Michelin star restaurant. And everyone was sat there chatting and drinking and having fun.

Everyone was having conversations with everyone. And I was like, you know, this is much better than a lot of the weddings that I've been to with like 200 people. my brother's wedding back in May and I remember maybe might have been a month might have been a couple of months

the camera were talking about it might actually been Christmas when he was home for the stag and my dad was saying he was like they're not going to watch this you have to invite the scandals and I was sitting there

my brother and my dad left and my brother's like do I have to and I was like it's your fucking day you can do whatever you want and then my dad came back and he was like I know you have to invite

them, you know them. And I looked at him. I was like, I don't think I know them. And he was like, do you remember back whatever year he mentioned? And he was like, this solid guy came up and shook your hand outside the church. And I was like, no. And I was like, and I turned to my brother was like, that's a reason not to invite them. It was like, if you can't pick them out of a line up or you don't actually know who they are, shouldn't have to bring them. Is it not such a, is not such an interesting statement? You have to. Like, because, you know, you're socially about. You obliged to do X, Y, and Z.

Well, hence why, like, I think what you see a lot at certain weddings when certain people are invited, parents have put money towards the wedding. Yeah. Do you obviously a table of people

that you're like, I know, we know you. Why fuck you here? Do you know, like that kind of way? And, like, I think, I think if there's money put in by someone else, you kind of then get that stranglehold on the, on the invite list.

I know my brother went on his own for it so he had control of it. Yeah, well that makes sense, doesn't it? It's like, all right, well, if someone else is paying for it, then the control is essentially a little bit out of your hands now. Or you take the money and be like, no, it's my day doing what I want. I think sometimes there is that pressure, isn't there,

from, I guess, generations up, maybe, like, maybe your parents or whoever have had those interactions with that person in the past, or they've helped them out with something, they've helped them get through a tricky spot that you don't know about, and there's a level of respect there. And then if, for some reason,

your brother's wedding is one of those things where they're not invited to. It's a slight on them potentially, even though it's nothing to do. Yeah, the law would be some kind of bad, like not bad blood, but you know what I mean, there'll always be some kind of negative kind of view of it. But like, the huge difference,

the huge difference. difference is like a 90 grand wedding now would have bought you a fucking house back then when they were getting married. But you know what? I actually, I think it's wild that people would think that it's a, it's offensive

not to invite. Like if I'm grateful when people don't invite me to their weddings. I don't want to go to your wedding. I couldn't think of, I don't care if I've known you for 15 years. Like we can go for lunch. We can go for a stroll. We can do a workout. I don't need to go to your

fucking wedding to show that I care about you, you know what I mean? I don't need to go to your glorified party. Remember that, Rob. Remember that? Make sure to invite him. He's laying out the chairs and assigning everyone to their seats. Listen here,

if you get married, right? If you get engaged, all right, I'm going to be the happiest person in the world for his. Don't invite me to her wedding. I'll still do the podcast with you next week and I'll be decided. What, 100% going to

fight you. Fight you. Like, I, I don't think I've had any interest in the, like the glorified

parties anymore. Like, I know, like, weddings are great when you're there and stuff like that. But if you do like four

or five in a year, it's like, I don't, I don't give a shit. Yeah. Yeah. I had a client that had, was it,

nine or ten? Yeah. Nine or ten in a year. I think one or two abroad as well. Like, don't, honest, the ones abroad were cheaper.

And you get, they tied to them on a holiday. So, like, I actually think sometimes they work out. But, like, yeah, so we won't invite you to the stag. We'll invite you to the wedding. I was just about to say that, yeah, rejecting from the stag. No, bring me to the stag. No, no, no, no, no, you're a wedding guest. Oh, I'll organize the stack, and I won't you over the wedding, you know.

Would just prefer to get married abroad or a home, you think. Because I think if you decide to do it abroad, you kind of save yourself the hassle of like, oh, well, like, I'm only going to invite a certain amount of people because it's abroad now because most people won't want to go or they'll have a reason not to go. I'd say home. Like, I'd do it abroad if there was like a specific place that felt like it was something special for myself and my partner or hypothetical partner or family or whatever. But realistically, home.

I guess that's, home is where the heart is, isn't it? So I think if you've got that connection to home with your wedding, a bit more special, in my opinion, I don't know. What about yourself, Jair? What about you, Carl, actually? Where would you get married? You've been avoiding this. Yeah, you're going to.

I'd get married in a woods like, Jare. That'd be quite nice, isn't it? We've got a bonfire going, a couple of marshmallows, inviting no one. It's just the two of us and the priests. the priest is not even paying for the priest I'll do it myself I'll do the ceremony myself I'll do a fee I'm I'm ordained

I'm Reverend Horan for the last 14 years of the church of life all right can I go on to cause signal Theria give you a couple of different examples and you can see you can see if you're guilty of this and then try to you know explain

the logic behind and them behaviours. So obviously number one was luxury weddings. All right? Spending a huge amount on weddings, signals financial stability, commitment and social status. The cost makes the signal appear more credible.

Designer clothes. How are we with designer clothes? The only reason I sometimes like getting them is because they are better quality and they last a bit longer. If it's just to do with the label, I don't really care. What about you, Ger? Oh, well, like, you've seen how I dress sometimes in my gym.

Like, my client's joke. Like, I look homeless sometimes when I'm walking around the village. But I'm also bougie at heart. I think it's just a, it's just a natural, like, I do like good clothes. I think it does come from my dad where it's like, buy once well rather than five-time shit. Do you know, that kind of idea? So, like, quality does last that bit longer. And then there's just some brands that are expensive and they're nice.

Yeah. what do you think that's pretty in them what do you think that signals i think it depends on how you approach it if you literally can only buy brands sometimes it suggests a little bit of insecurity to me but um if you have like that genuine intrinsic reasoning of i just like it i'm going to get it for me i don't i'm not wearing it out to impress people i want to it is comfortable, it fits well, I feel good in it. I think that's all right. If it's just, if there's exact same t-shirt,

one's, I don't know, Abercrombie and Fitch, I don't really know many brands, clearly. On's Albucombeian Fitch, one is just prime market. They're exact same t-shirt, exact same material. One just has the logo on it. Yeah. What are you trying to signal there? I guess, wealth.

importance yeah maybe yeah I maybe I'm fine and it looks

good I was in I was in Brown Thomas maybe when I was 17 18 looking at

like leather jackets I just wanted to get a nice coat now I knew they were

going to be expensive to know like at least 300 quid or something like that

and I was just looking at them and someone working there some older lad came over and he

was like he literally goes he's like I wouldn't be looking at them you can't

afford them and now he's not wrong one of was about 900 euro and I pulled it off the fucking rack but I was like well fuck you anyway like you know just looking at me and saying I can't get it and I remember a couple years later I was in

Galway and I was selling bags of sunshine at the time and so I was flush with cash but literally dressed fairly standards the way I'm dressed now and we're in this outdoor shop myself and two of the lads and this guy working there probably the owner had a load of uh you know the like heavy duty north face pack is like you could take on the antarctic with them like he had a load of those i'd say about like 50 odd jackets and uh i was looking at one and he was like are they about john 750 odd quid and i was like right and i was like i'll give you four 450 for it because you're not selling these in ireland like oh it's a bit wet i was the only drug dealer is going to buy these like and uh yeah and uh he looked at me and he was like if you were

have 450 cash on you, I'll give you that jacket. So I put out my wallet, big fucking wad of 50s, down counting it out, handed to your man. And my maid always laughs. He was like the funniest moment. He'd be like, you had this shit jumper on. You dropped it on the ground through on your jacket and walked out the fucking door. And I was like, I always tie it back to the time in Brown Thomas where I was like, fuck you looking at me thinking I don't have money. I was like, I'm going to buy this. I still have that jacket, still wear it. It was a good investment. but it was also a fuck you I can buy it at the same time

yeah yeah well like that's I think that is like to do with like signal in theory as well like if you can buy the jacket what does that signal probably signal signals success in some sort of way like I can afford it because

as well didn't that sorry yeah it signals you can take care of yourself as well that you are yeah valid successful business I think that's the same with a lot of things

a lot of it comes down right i'm signaling that you know i'm successful that i have welts uh like you said it could be taste as well it's like i'm signaling that you know i know how to dress myself well or uh i have you know good taste in terms of fashion um yeah and it's the same way so flashy cars as well driving a luxury car signal's financial power confident success yeah like an oji with leather seats It also indicates a small shoes. Here, listen, I had no

issue driving that what year was it? Was it a polo? Oway, Volkswagen Golf for four years. Even when I had money, I drove it into the ground. The only reason I got rid of it is because it was about to explode. Well, I was, I was forced to

upgrade, all right? That's how I feel. That's how I feel about Phyllis, my pujo outside. It's an absolute bank. her she makes these off rob was driving her she makes awful noises when her driving around and i just find it funny because i don't care about the car but then the odd time i'll bar the old man's care i think going up to your event and it i do find it hilarious when you'll see middle-aged men looking at you in like a almost span new Volvo jeep leather seats and they're like obviously they're looking at like what does that lad what does that lad do when you get out in a pair of shorts and a crocs

wearing these fucking rings and it's like we're probably a drug dealer but like to know like you can't not notice a young man in a in a in a noise car yeah yeah i think it was it does it does signal something and you're like oh i wonder what he does like do you know what me signal status uh whether you want whether whether it's true or not that that's what it signals yeah i thought i thought my one of my favorite stories was uh when we did that talk myself and kelly did the top of your clients in project fitness and like jillowellie's got a great business and you know she's built the house out in Wicklow and she was there talking about

her banner car not starting and having to run down the road to borrow her dad's car and I was just like yeah I was like it's what's important you're forced into an upgrade but like that whole idea like I was only talking to someone today about upgrading the car and my dad and I was like I prefer to put the money into the business right now because then I can buy what I want later. Having a nice car now means fuck all to me if I don't have 10 grand to throw into a business. Well here's the interesting one right and I completely agree with you like Kelly has a really successful business you wouldn't you would like you'd look at her driving her car and you

wouldn't realize how much she makes and you'd be surprised and then you'll also have then the opposite end of the spectrum where you have someone who's probably struggling financially but they they feel the need to to put themselves in debt to signal that you know, they are successful by having a nice car or a fancy watch or a designer clothes. But then you have the other end of the spectrum as well, which is a funny one. It's like, do you ever notice the way like you get to, some people get to a level of wealth where it might be like Mark Zuckerberg or someone like that? And it's like they're almost, they're so wealthy and they're billionaires and they dress like homeless people.

But isn't that what we, isn't that what we talked about? One of the last podcasts about minimizing the amount of choice they have to make in their life. Like, I dress like I'm homeless most of the time. Like when I go to different things and like wear a nice pants or a shirt and a jacket, everyone's like, oh, you're dressed up. And I'm like, no, I'm like, I'm wearing, well, I am wearing my grown-up clothes, as I call them. But it's, so it's like, uncomfortable in a track suit pants, pair of crocs, a grubby t-shirt, to rip flat on and I was like

who am I trying to fucking impress with my clothes yeah it's an interesting one because it's like you like if it's a millionaire you might not know who they are so it's like they almost need to dress themselves up or have the fancy card to signal that they are who they say they are they're a millionaire and then you're like oh this person must be someone

but then you get to a level you get to a level of status where it's like it's even more of a signal to to dress down or to or to not like show how much you spend I have a good one about my dad Rob you met my you met my dad

he says you have a solid pair of legs on you just so you know I'll say about that my dad grew up with like 10 siblings on a dairy farm he has done very fucking well for himself but I think like he used to have company cars like you go in you pick out your car blah blah blah whatever I worked out I think he was always religiously

Volvo's that's what he went with Volvos were his car and he decided one He was like, I'll break out, I'll go to BMW. Now, my dad, not giving a fuck about anything, goes into BMW with his wellies on after doing a job in the field, covered in grass. And this young sales ad comes up to him is like, sir, and he was, I'm just looking to, John, buy a Jeep or something like that.

And Jimenez was like, yeah, yeah, but I can't have you walking around in those wellies. John, you're putting muck and grass everywhere. And he was like, all right, yeah, sorry, John, I'll go. go wipe them over there. He's like, do you have a bag or something I'd put on him? And your man's like, no, no, you'll have to take them off and just leave him at the door. And he was like, I'm not walking around here in my socks.

And you know, I was like, well, I can't leave you walk around the place. And he just looked and he's like, right, I'm going back down to Volvo. And that's about, I'd say, about 80, 90 grand lost there, like. Yeah, yeah. Do you know? Over, over clean the floor. If you see someone coming in with dirty wellies on it into a place like that, you fucking give him a chair and a cup of tea and as many,

biscuits as you can because they're going to have money to spend otherwise they wouldn't go in there yeah one of my mates I can't remember what school he went to whether it was Marlborough a pretty well-known wealthy school

he would say like it wouldn't be the people that would turn up in a Lamborghini or like a McLaren or really really fancy Audi R8 or something it wouldn't be those that the ones that you turned around and went oh fucking hell they're pretty wealthy

it was the person that turned up in like the beaten up Volvo estate that would clearly just come from like a big farm or something it was the one that looked rough you turned your head and you were like they've got they've got status that's real country money though

isn't it like yeah yeah farm in money like driving your car until it looks like that scene out of Father Ted John with the car's battered on the outside or like there's so many holes in your pants you finally have to throw them out I think there I remember listening to I don't know

a podcast or i read i can't remember but it was basically showing how like if you know if you come from money you're less likely to need to you know signal that you come from money by buying the fancy car and stuff like that but if you notice like someone who came from poverty like let's say someone in the united states you know grew up in poverty and then they got their first uh contract in the NBA or something like that what's the first thing they do was buy the most expensive fancy car in the world yeah exactly because now they need to notice atli who Attlee who has been has grown up in poverty wants to signal that you know Dave made it that they have money and I think it's interesting that mindset of when you've always when you've

come from money you don't need the you don't have the need to signal it as much I think probably a connection between how how you present yourself and how you feel like with well they definitely will be like when you've grown up with money you don't have to present yourself a certain way to feel that way people know that you're from that money you get that kind of input just turn himself around a little bit uh someone tried to call me yeah you you kind of have those kind of societal and relationship kind of feelings going on can't use my words very efficiently but when you come from poverty you don't have those kind of um positive reinforcements from like external positive reinforcements basically well a great example is

chair going and buying that that jacket for 450 quid to prove that little kid rock well he wasn't a little kid he was an old man it was more of the royal fuck you it was like fuck you in your shop and stupid boy jackets but see but that mindset is probably

the mindset of that you know sports athlete who finally has money now it's like yeah the other thing like you know

you know where I'm from nobody believes I'm from there like like my barber like only said it to me there a couple of weeks ago I was leaving

and he was like the lads were asking about you that work in the shop and I was like all right and he was like I told him like he's a PT and they were like oh where is he doing that and they were like he was like out in a dare and they were like

geez how did he get out there and he was like oh he's from there and they were like no they were like so I don't this doesn't blend in where I am like this my mine is more fucking chinos Ralph Lauren Sharts and John

nice big jeeps turn around the place now you have your mix of everyone same kind of idea there's a lot of people around here that have loads of money that will drive a standard car they won't flash out and clothes and stuff of that mine was also just my situation

when back then was acting out I was going to say before was like those people that grow up in it don't feel the need to present it because you get that kind of feedback then when you find yourself in it and you associate that positive feedback with the fact that you've been successful you find them feel the need to keep presenting

in a net, rather than accepting yourself. I assume anyway, I'm not in that position. Right, man, like, I know if I won the lotto tomorrow, the first car, the first thing I'd be buying with wheels is a nice van and decking it out for camping and tearing around the countryside. Now, I'd obviously start buying some other stuff as well, and I'd do it up well nice, but, like, it wouldn't be,

if I had stupid Euro million as money, I wouldn't be going buying a sports car that can still go the same speed limit as every other car. Would you not be spending it on your wedding? Well, you have to have a woman to do that. Do you want to hear some other cost signaling ones that are a little bit different? Yeah. Yeah.

So, endurance sports, like, no, actually I'll go with this one. Tattoos in certain cultures. So in some groups, visible tattoos signal toughness or commitment to the group because they're painful, permanent and socially risky. The cost is physical and social. Well, isn't it, um, was it an interesting. Japan for the rugby world cup a lot of the players had to wear like long sleeve thermal layers

and stuff because having tattoos over there is a sign of being in the what are they So yeah there's a couple of different gangs but there was a triads isn't it? No that's Chinese I don't know I just literally mention it's one it's one of them anyway and you're like

that's that was it because I think my my man even said it to me she was like the certain places you couldn't go now with all your tattoos and stuff like even when I was working in the States she was like you need to cover them when you're going places yeah yeah when Japan if you're going into a restaurant you have to cover your tattoos it's just the social social norm but if you think about it even in like Mexican gangs and stuff like that they have to get themselves tattooed from head to toe to you know signal that they are you know in a gang and they're not to be messed away and they're

tough and all that stuff so I'd be fine in Japan because I've got none yeah you'll be fine For now, for now. No. Do you want to, I'll give you another one. So endurance sports. I've got a slutty cake. Endurance sports like Iron Man races. So completing a maritin or a triathlon signals discipline, health and mental strength.

It is credible because it takes huge effort and time. Define mental strength in that regard. The resilience, resilience. Yeah. Yeah. But do you agree? Well, what are we? what do we agree and disagreeing with well i think you see this in the fitness space a lot as well is

that people want to signal that they are superior in terms of their dedication or resilience or discipline by you know uh i'll look at the 50 kilometer mud run that i did or the you know the five maradins and five days or like it feels like the i'm better than you well it feels like the challenges are getting more and more extreme via social media like whether you're fucking running the length of Africa or you're trying to do you know 50 ultramaritans and 50 they talked about they talked about that at your at your event there the other week um or last weekend fitness fitness deflation or something yeah that like how like running a 5k or a 10k or a half marathon or a marathon even now isn't isn't that big a deal like if you tell

someone do I rain a half marathon they're like all right you're going to do a full one you know thing is though that's not really the case is it like it's not I guess statistically it's probably not the case at all but in terms of

our exposure to it it is like the people that we're going to do it anyway are probably doing it anyway regardless but we're aware of it now and we're all in that industry we're following people that are into fitness whereas if in the village

that I live in, you went around and said, I'm going to run a marathon next week. Most of them would probably be like, are you all right? Yeah. I would never do that. Where if we post something on social media now of going, oh, I'm running 5K,

no one's going to bat an eyelid. Yeah. Well, depending on the bubble we're in, like people were like, as you said earlier, like just me saying just to 5K, I was like, I said just because I cut off three kilometers so I could get back here and have a shower. but it is that idea that like

for people a kilometer is a lot John 5K is a lot I fucking hate doing it but like there is one there's a marathon on next September that I do want to try and do and I will tell everyone about it but for a different reason it's Marathon

Dumadoc it's on in it's on in Bordeaux there's a wine there's wine at every mile station they have 50 orchestras dotted around the place there's oysters and steak and frog rah and dance parties and fucking massage places it's going like it's a festival i also believe i'm conditioned to be able to drink for 23 miles and do a run compared to people who don't drink and do 23 miles what's when's this again

it's on in september i think nev uh nev's gonna do it with me well this is like why you go back about the just 5k thing it's the exact same thing as the as the as the as the wedding signaling like spending 10 grand used to be expensive on a wedding but now you look at weddings and people are comparing themselves to their neighbor or the person they see on social media and it's like oh now you have to spend oh the social norm is to spend 30 grand but if you really love your partner you have to spend 50 grand and it's the same thing now in terms of uh cost signaling for you know discipline and resilience it's like well a 5k doesn't signal any of them things anymore. It has to be a marathon. It has to be three maritans. And it's because like that,

that, that fitness deflation thing is that like, you know, you see other people do it now and now it's just a new norm to. Like, I'm going to hope, I'm going to hope to do a half in May in Limerick just to kind of keep training towards the one in September. But like, I have no joy in doing a marathon. No real huge want to do. it but when I saw the video of this one on in France I was like now that looks like fun that makes sense to me to go fucking running for 23 miles you'll be pissed I'm gonna spend

June to August next year training with a camel pack of wine on my back do you want to know one I'll give you one more signal and cost so expensive first dates so picking a high end restaurant signals interest confidence or financial capability

funny story with this so if it wasn't a first date and hopefully she's not listening she'll not be too happy if she is it was I think it was second but we it's funny so there's if you're listening whoever you know who you are

I'm not saying this in spite what's her name well what's her name I think you can probably guess but Is it you, is it you, Trish? Trish, yeah, sorry Trish.

Is it Trish or is a Chloe? Which one? We weren't going to date. Who's Trish? Oh, sorry, pretend, who's Chloe? No, I'm just trying to, like, make it seem like you have three girls on the goal. No, it was Sarah. Went to London for the night. Yeah. Went to the theatre, went for a nice meal, spent quite a bit of money together.

like we kind of split of 50-50 apparently it wasn't a romantic date there going away and going to the theatre doing that I don't know well I spending that money basically

doesn't bring you if you took me to the theatre I wouldn't be giving you anything either so like this is the thing right but this is the thing about like signal and it's like if you let's say you let's say if you go on a first date with someone

right and you go for coffee with them it might signal that oh well you don't you don't know if you're interested or not because you're not making a huge to-do about it but if you bring them to like a Michelin-style restaurant you spend you know 200 300 quid it's like oh this person is really into me

when in reality it might not be the case because this person could just have 200 300 to blow you know true I don't know I think it depends on the context and the interaction like we it's you could spend that much money and not really show an interest and they clearly know you're not interested

in that you've just got that money to spend like the money itself doesn't necessarily indicate, does it? No, no. Well, that's why it's only a theory, but it's like, but I mean, like I presume if you brought this one to, what to London, did you say? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, and you're spending that amount of money.

Like, it's obviously someone that you're interested in, so you're signaling that you're interested in that person by creating this financial burden. yeah true i think yeah even though it wasn't necessarily romantic by definition it was we both demonstrated that we're interested so yeah yeah i guess in that regard it's the time commitment as well though i think for that more than anything it was the effort getting there it was the time that was spent together rather than the amount of money that was spent on it yeah yeah that's that's that's a big one for me i'd be like now i can't go to london which it

will take my whole weekend will be gone i mean you have to fly there as well it's for me brain that's that that's that's that's a lot of that's a lot of costs where she'd she'd wake up in the middle of the night and carry back in bray yeah so anyway we'll quickly move on from that one um but yeah so that's car signal and theory folks all right that's that's That's what I wanted to talk to you about today. Is this the sad rabbit hole you've gone down looking at like photos of wedding? Honest to God. Well, I just thought that was, I can't even remember how I got went down that rabbit hole.

But I did actually find it interesting that people who spend more money may, you know, it may show the rockiness of their relationship, which I think obviously it's, obviously it's, again, I'm looking at like, survey data and like everyone will have their own individual circumstances like some people some people just have a lot of money to fucking troletons and some people could spend a load of money on a wedding and have a great obviously marriage and stay together forever and some people you know might spend nothing on the marriage and also break up and then there's everything in between but you know where where my uh where we did the actors for uh my event the barbecue they do they do tattoos of weddings and stuff there and like my brother had his day two on there a lot of the manor hotel the big posh one that's going to have the writer cup a lot of people from there do their day twos

or they do their day before is I think was it the owner of some NFL team's daughter was having her wedding on in the in the manor and they had their night before on inside that local pub I was in the middle of the smoking area having a pint

because I didn't realize it was going on at first but when I walked in I was like alright there's fish and chips being handed out to locals so you're there's all these fuckers in tweed jackets and ball gowns and I'm sitting there in shorts and a t-shirt with my pinty Guinness I do love it I do love it

a tweed jacket I do love like an old country tweed jacket I think they're fantastic If you don't go to a wedding you won't get to wear it yeah well I can wear it around the apartments you know just in your jacks and your three jacket walking around the place. Last question, do you think that paying for a first date is signalling commitment? Well, paying a lot for it or just paying? Just be like

paying for the first day as the male. Don't talk now about that fucking who invites who on the date. I know most men will offer to pay anyway. But like it's, so if you're just going for a coffee I bought well I know coffee fucking cost you a ten or an out and I mean what they

fucking order so like if you're going for if you're gone on the first date and you were getting a coffee it was coffee for the two years

would you pay? Yeah if she offered to pay would you still be like no yeah like if you if you thought it might go

towards somewhere else you might make a joke if you can get the next one yeah yeah nice what about you Rob would you

would you always pay for a first date or would you let them split I think historically I've always paid sometimes when they split it not because of the splitting

but because of the kind of vibe that it is almost feels like there's a bit of a mate's vibe going on with it for some reason I don't know if that's just me in my head kind of categorising like that but generally speaking I'd pay yeah I think

well doesn't that signal financial capability, I can look after you, I'm interested in you, that's why I want to pay for this day. I think it makes sense. I think if they offer, I'm automatically more attracted to them. And then if they accept me paying after that again, if I'd literally give no indication that I'm going to pay, but they're just sat their arms crossed waiting for me to go up and pay for it. I'm kind of like, I'm going also, I'm not probably. not going to see you again. This is a gold digging hoe.

Big difference between your five euro coffee or you're like 150, 200 euro meal. Yeah. What you do. If she's not offering to pay the coffee, she ain't offered to pay for much, I would imagine. But yeah, I would always, I would always like be adamant about paying on the first day. I just, I think it's just ingrained in my social brain. Who paid for the theatre and the dinner? I think it was a second or third date.

We split. Well, I think she paid for the theatre. I played for the hotel and dinner. And it kind of balanced out a little bit. Yeah, fair. I think I pay a little bit more, hopefully. I'm not sure. Yeah.

I don't think hotel and dinner was more than the fucking theatre. If you did, if it didn't work out, you should request on Revue for your buddy back. You send invoices. I saw a fucking meme like that It's some girl Gets a text for my guy She gave her number to the night before

And he just sends her a text She's going This is Jeff from the bar last night It's like Oh hi Jeff Joe It's so nice to hear from you And he just sends like You owe me $25

Because I didn't go home With you last night For all those drinks There is a little bit of an expectation from lads isn't there that like if they pay for like the nine out and stuff like that that you know at least give me give me something you know what like a kiss on the cheek you mean like a kiss on the cheek exactly that's exactly what i that's yeah that's it yeah thank you for that yeah um one more i'll leave you one more so animal behavior because i never went into this

so cost signaling in nature so the peacocks tail male peacocks grow enormous colorful tails and that make them easier for predator that makes them easier for predators to catch because only the strongest males can survive with such a handicap the tail signals genetic strength and then stags fighting with antlers male dares engage in intense dangerous antler combat to win mates the risk of injury makes the signal reliable only strong males can afford to do that so if you have big antlers and you're fighting it means that you're you know signal drunk drunk drunk lads in a night out outside supermax battering head off each other Yeah, in front of a group of females, like just going up with your eyes.

Batch and checks off each other as like, ugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope you don't do this in Bali. So, yeah, there you go. Well, the peacock tail thing is, like, I feel it's similar to. What is it? Does it have two. It has two purposes.

It's to attract females and to ward off predators. Yeah. Colorful tail. Bought them off. I think it was the fact that they're so obvious if they've been able to survive whilst having such an obvious tail, it demonstrates strength

because predator would be able to find them. Is that what you were saying, Carl? Yes, I think that's what it is. Yeah, that's exactly what it says. So colourful tails that make them easier for predators to catch. So predators can spot them. But see, the big, the big colourful tails

is better for them because it's meant to, like, be like a, it's meant to kind of like look like a face to a predator's. so it scares them off. Yeah. Oh really? Because of the eyes. Yeah, that's what it.

So it's either to do like a fucking weird feathery dance to pull a bird or it's to fly up and like shock a predator into turning away off the first attack. Yeah, what it says here, colorful tales that make them easier for predators to catch because only the strongest males can survive with such a handicap. So the tail signals genetic strength. So if I'm, if it's very obvious for people to see me because of my big colorful tail, but yeah, I'm still alive. it's because you know i can i can fight basically yeah being larger to see hasn't worked for me

as a human so i don't know and also there's the bird song complexity so some birds produce extremely long complicated songs that require energy time and cognitive ability females choose and males based on how costly the performances are you know what that you know what that is in in human example someone who plays on a band yeah oh i saw a good one where they take a load of different musicians and they take away their instruments out of the shot and stuff like that and then just like look at them and they're like if they couldn't sing or play guitar you wouldn't give a flying fuck about that's so true though isn't it it's like he's just a normal like just a normal lad on the street that you would

completely ignore but put an electric guitar in his hand or an acoustic guitar it's like oh he's he's he's he's he's so good looking. Yeah, he's famous. Yeah. It's very true, isn't it? All right. Okay, well, that's Caustiglam. We'll leave it there.

Thank you very much for indulging in my weird rabbit hole topics. And we'll go again next week. Thank you very much for your advice, as always. Thanks for watching. If you like that episode and you want to see more content like this, make sure you're subscribed and I'll see you on the next one.