The Uneducated PT Podcast - Episode 94 - Breathe Into Transformation w/ Jonathan Hickey

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

In Episode 94 of The Uneducated PT Podcast, we’re joined by nutrition coach and breathwork facilitator Jonathan Hickey for a deep, honest conversation about what it really takes to transform—physically, mentally, and emotionally. Jonathan opens up about his own healing journey, sharing why he encourages others to ditch the diet mentality and stop letting the scale define their progress. We explore what it means to “eat like a human, not a rabbit,” and how real strength comes from far more than numbers or willpower. We also get into:What “It’s not about the scale; it’s about the strength…” really meansThe small but powerful nutrition habits that make a big difference over timeSigns that someone is actually ready for changeThe identity shifts Jonathan had to make to become the coach he is todayWhat he now understands about healing, breathwork, and self-regulationWhether you’re on your own transformation path or supporting others through theirs, this episode is packed with insight, honesty, and heart.

Okay, welcome back to the uneducated PT podcast today. We have a very special guest, a good friend of mine, friend who's going to be speaking with me now on the 5th of July at the next school fitness event. Jono, I have a couple of things that I want to go dive in in terms of topics with you, but I wanted to start with your relationship with Brett work because I know that's something that you have recently

really dived into and become a practitioner and can you just tell me and tell the listeners a little bit about that relationship and how you ended up getting into it and what that looks like in terms of your coaching process? Yeah, so with the breadwork car and stuff like that, for me, my belief and stuff is going to be one of the biggest most transformational,

powerful tools and modalities outside of talk therapy that's going to come into Ireland and obviously I'm blessed to have studied underneath Jamie Janko from trauma and form somatic Brett work that's what I can call myself as a trauma-informed somatic barret work practitioner. But what led me to that point of, like, say, jumping on a call with Jamie DeChefe was the right thing for me was obviously I've done a retreat three years ago and now and stuff like that,

ayahuasca. And that led me on to the personal development, self-development route, what I said, to see what, you know, what was underneath the surface in terms of me as a person to bring me home because obviously I felt what everything that has gone on and I'm not going to talk about COVID and stuff like that, but everything that's gone on from just all through life. Nothing bad has ever happened.

But I knew to bring me home to my most authentic version of herself, I was always curious as what modality is out there. I just would feel personally for me, car and stuff like going to talk therapy, that was never going to be the thing. Why? Because if it did, not knocking it, because it's an incredible modality,

is it's bringing me back or would bring me back to the same little tea event. So in Brett Wock, we'll say Big T, Little T, and Terpian presumed to go Little T, Big T. So nothing has ever happened to me. So we went on this journey

and obviously fast forward three years and what's a couple of months ago now and stuff. I jumped on a thing with Jamie and we had a chat to. I knew it then it was like this is going to be next level. I could just feel it and I knew it straight away directly. as the ladies would say,

I can feel in my waters. So would it have been that then, we jumped on and what it does, it brings you to tapping into, makes us the subconscious conscious. So everything is done through breath. It's done through a form and a modality and stuff like that that you're in control of.

So there's no external substances have to be taken, you know, and there's the different modalities that are out there. In terms of how it's brought me, it's brought me home to my most truest, rawest version of myself. My wife made different stuff like that. She said you're going to have to continue to work on yourself more and more. But that's just part and parts of the process in terms of, A, as a coach, A, personally development,

it's self-development. But I knew walking away from that weekend itself, it was one of the most transformational aspects. We had to study the trauma and form semantics practice from Australia, from two guys and stuff like that I have a centre of healing or what it's called. You have to do that first and then to do the breath work then to merge the two them together.

But in terms of why did I do it in terms of, as I said, to bring me home to the most authentic version of myself, which I fully believe that I'm living life in my terms. Can you... But how can I marry the two? Yeah.

Can you, can you explain what you mean by that when you say coming home to yourself? Because I think that's something that the listeners would be intrigued to understand a little bit more. Yeah, so it's like I said the business of like being a parent, business owner, like, you know, building better connections and stuff like that with people that have always

been there for me and have always like, you know, supporting me. But I've always, myself, I stand on my own two feet and obviously those that are going to come to the speaking event and stuff that, like, you know, you've asked me to come and do is they'll see that. As I've always stood my own two feet. and that's what I mean when it comes to the coming home to me, being authentic. Because sometimes, you know, we're on social and we say this and we do that. What you see is what you get with me. But then I was always a little bit iffy and stuff. If I say this now, this is going to butt hurt somebody and it's not my intention.

But as a mentor who said to me before, he said, if you say something and it lands and it hurts somebody and it hits a nerve, that's a them problem, not a you problem. because something that you're now after saying has landed with them that they know they need to change. It's not you calling them like, you know, every name underneath the son. But the thing is, whatever,

it has a trigger that has enlightened in them. And then for that for me and stuff like, that's why it's helped me allow it to become, like to become a better dad, they become a better husband, a better brother, a better son-in-law, a better,

you know, better overall around the human being. Not that I was going around and I had an aggression coming out of my ears. I'm a ginger and that's one of our traits

were aggressive by nature. Fiery. Yeah, and that's the thing with it. And it's like that again is to build that like as I said, to go a little bit deeper and stuff like when I went away

in these retreats, why did I go? It was to build connection with those that I loved the most more and more. Because they've always supported me but I didn't and wasn't

and continue now obviously to work on that to show them that aspect. You know, as they, you know, the loving relationship. Yes, and with, but, you know, with, you know, the ones we love. But I did again, is it's no one right. Yeah.

Bring it back a second, John. Relax. They didn't mean that. They didn't mean this. You've got to, you know, just take control and ownership and own the situation as opposed to, like, allowing something to fester or getting top of your head and stuff like that that cause you to feel that way. Because I did it.

All I was doing was pushing everybody away. and especially now having like two kids when you need and stuff like that help who you go to. You go to those that are around that can offer that, you know, helping hand and stuff in the situation. That's what has helped me bring me home to being me, to be an authentic, to whip myself and stuff. When I dress and stuff, I'm black now and stuff,

like the listeners can't see it now is about when I dress and stuff, I don't dress like normal or what's normal and stuff like that. Like, you know, I'll wear the psychedelic t-shirt. are aware what I feel most comfortable in. And that's the thing. I think if people live the life on their terms and didn't, not care, but didn't take notice of what others were saying

or about them, they would potentially live a more fulfilled lifestyle, lifestyle, and then life on their own terms. Can you tell me a little bit about your experience doing ayahuasca, where did you do it, what was the experience like? And maybe who do you think, like if there's people listening to this, who do you think would benefit from,

from that kind of an experience. I say for where I did it, it was up the, up the, it was on the, the meads, the meads, what border? Whatever county borders mead. And put it was, it was on that border. And stuff, it was near to do leak and stuff like that. And so it was in Ireland.

And it was with the crowd and stuff. If people, yeah, it was in Ireland. I didn't have to go externally. And, but if people do want to reach out to me and stuff, I don't want to mention names just in case, of it but with it and stuff my experience was what I went for in terms of connection, support and love is what I got in abundance throughout it.

It was parts of it were like, no, right? Is this for me? Is that not for me? Is it scary? Yes, it is. Because I did again is it. It'll only show you what you want to see and what it thinks you're ready for. But if you are with mother, yeah and stuff is what it's called, like if you're

anyway disrespectful it'll teach you a lesson in terms of showing you its strength and its power because that's what it does it's just unlocking the subconscious and mind there

to tap into you like Pandora's box in your brain and stuff like that you potentially have either a shut off why maybe because people like you know I've had like maybe an abusive relationship or they have been under receiving

end and stuff like that of abuse and relationship and these other elements that go with it in terms of sexual assault. People that I would have conversed with, you know, they were going for said reasons. But I think again is it's so powerful that I wouldn't recommend it to everybody. Why? Because if you're not in a position or mind space and stuff like that ready for the next step, you could go and you might be able to deal with the things that come up because like as I say it's so powerful in terms of like you know when you would go you would do ayahuasca and the force night which is just like a brood cold coffee but it's not cold coffee it doesn't taste like cold coffee and then like you would open up the ceremony where you're cleansed and stuff like that and there's sage and all of these things and they bring you through guiding through the practitioners that are there like you you know, so there'll be shamans there and stuff like that as well. And then they'll do like this rap-based ceremony and stuff like that where my only easy way to describe it, Carl,

potentially as the listeners, is imagine myself and Carl will go square up to each other. And then Carl hits me an absolute cracker in the center of the forehead. It just opens up your mind. So then it allows you to go a little bit deeper into, like, you know, the meditative process to tap into your subconscious, is to see what you want to come up for you. Like I remember the first night, nothing happened. And then the chap pulled me the second day or whatever.

And I said, nothing really happened for me. You know, I'm doing it wrong. He said, no, John. He said, what are you doing? He said, you're allowing your brain to take over. Your brain is so incredibly powerful that if you, because he said, you're watching everybody else going through a process. And then you're like, why is that happening to me?

Why is that not happening to me? And then all of a sudden the second night and stuff like I was lying there on the floor next thing he'd give me an eye mask and he said just just go with it whatever and i remember one stage carol if people can remember the old jimangi classic now of where the little lad turns into a monkey and then he gets caught in the floorboards so that's what it was like for me in the second eye and then i was like oh jesus i can't go to sleep and then i tried to close my eyes at one stage and if people are familiar i'll obviously i'll use like movies to kind of get the analogy across or the metaphor is there's a the transformer movie where it's like this like this

big creature comes down and it like sucks up all the transformer yokes whatever and next thing this yoke started appearing to me all these mystical like figurines and colors and i was like oh jeez i'm definitely not going to sleep and then the lovely lady she came over and said it's all right just submerge to the process and just let it happen and as she did that whatever she sprayed some mist on me whatever and i remember going off but like i was like what's going on here because then i was looking over here to my left-hand side and they're like they had candle it because everything is quite dark.

I was looking over and I was like these yorks are dancing each other and they're giving each other hugs. I was like but then obviously what I was born for obviously from a symbolism point of view and stuff like that like the laws is poor

the connection and that's what these candles like maybe they do have feelings maybe they do that's what they were trying to get across to me and it was that element and stuff like that

the second eight was more powerful than the first and then on the third day and stuff like that, it was supposed to stay the third day. But as I said to the individual and stuff, I said, I think I've got what I've come for it. And he just said, I don't know, disrespect.

He said, I reckon you should stay for the third night because that's when you'll get more into it because now you've submerged yourself to the process even more. And he said you can try the buffer, which is, you know, DNT and stuff, which can give you an outer body. But it can also give you, like, potentially maybe a negative experience.

So I didn't want to ruin what was a positive experience for me and then undo it potentially and stuff like that by doing something that I didn't feel a calling to do. And that's what I said to people. If they're a feel of calling to do something, go and do it. It's like going to coaching or training

or join the school of fitness and stuff like that. It's that element. You feel a calling to it. And in this situation, I wasn't called to do it. But I had been thinking about it and stuff like that for a year, a good mentor of mine and stuff like that

Brian Keen, he had done it. So like I knew then, right, I was like, I could ask him, but he said, I can't tell you why, because my experience, my cloud yours. So he said, you've got to go on experience for itself, which I did. I also, about two, maybe three months before that, it was like Dorian Yates,

people may know him with bodybuilder. He has done it quite extensively and stuff like that. And he was saying, it's like jumping on a bount or on a trampoline. And you're, you can get so. high and you look over the wall and then you're like the higher that you go, the more that you can see further. And that's what they can unlock and unravel and

you know, that's what like, you know what it did for me. And that's what I think has given me more of more of an open growth mindset and when it comes to because obviously part of the process is like Canbo. So if people are not familiar with what Cambo is, it's a fire medicine. So the tribes would use it

to know out in, you know, Peru and these elements back in the day and I'm going to still use, utilize it now. But it's like a superficial burn, and there's like either three to seven, or there could be three to nine or, you know, many different dots on your, used on your left arm. Or it can happen on your leg or on your back.

And what they do then is it's the excretion off of the frog, behind the eyeball, the pace is made up, it's put onto your superficial burn. and then all of a sudden like your core temperature starts to ramp up your my ears would start to bellow

and then all of a sudden there's this like sudden just dropping blood pressure and then you start to as we say purge the shitty stuff I'm sorry if you can't curse my apology curse away curse away is a this all this gunk comes up

and I did that again is like I did that whatever and like delightedness and stuff to the point I'm feeling it, you know, with doing the ayahuasca and stuff and the rapids and stuff like that. That's what on the second one of being there

and that's what allowed me to tap into the second night a little bit deeper because I had removed. It removes the toxins and stuff like that. It removes the negative stored emotions and stuff like that are in there and stuff like that. And that's what come up like

my thing stuff, Carl, my book was like full black, green, yellow without someone go to go test people listening to it. No, but it's that thing, but that gave me the clarity. About like maybe six months after that, I went to a place and kind of manner, whatever it takes, to do another session of Cambo. Not how I was at this time. And when I walked in, went through the formalities, whatever. Same thing happened again, whatever, but there was less gunk that had come up. And the one was like, she said, the difference between you coming in and now versus going, she said, is it all right,

I give you a hug? She said, because your energy is so much more. different. And like with the cambo, they used to use it for just to give like background and stuff people may not find it interesting. But it's like it heightens your senses and stuff like then terms of your even your eyesight. So when I walked out, remember the first time doing it. Like I was seen green, but it wasn't just green. It was like all the shades of green. And like I could like, it was like one of those movies where you're turning your head and like everything is just like you're taking every finer detail. So your peripherals and stuff right that are just like boom. And that's what like that's what it did for me.

But I do know from talking to others, others have not had that experience. They've had like, borderline kind of breakdowns and stuff like that. Yeah, because they did again is they didn't feel, say, in the spaces that they were conducted in. So,

and that's the thing with that. So I said, like I was hesitant at the start just to mention names. Or if someone does want to reach out to me and stuff and does want to know where I went, I have no issue and stuff like that. you know going this is where I went I have no issue but you've got to make

sure that you're in the right headspace at this moment in your life to go through it that's interesting as well about feeling safe because I'd imagine like I know they they've popped up all over the place they're all over Europe as well as obviously they came out of South America

and stuff like that so it's like you know I suppose it's like anything is that you can get really good services and maybe poor services and trying to find because I would imagine, especially if you're doing it for the first time, it is going to be nerve-wracking. Oh, 100%. I was breaking it.

Like, I walked in because obviously you have like a little bit of like, it's like someone comes into us, Carl, you don't have a little bit of consultation, whatever, and trying to put them at ease. They're a little bit of apprehensive. Is this lad with a ginger and stuff like to be able to go and help me? I was saying, your man's like standing there, whatever he's got. He's like, shaman and shawl on and he's like, you know, he's got these like the jewelry and stuff like that, you know, the traditional stuff on, whatever. and I'm like, actually all of a sudden I'm just trying. Form a just like a sentence that are written down and stuff like that. And that was it.

And like it's your art, like you're so like a little bit of hands with, why if this happens? What if that happens? Am I going to come away and stuff like that? My marriage is going to break down because it's like everything. You go and do all of these things, whatever. And you hear the negative sides. Oh, well, I went and did it.

And I left my wife two weeks later. So like that again is like even for my wife, if she was to say to you no and stuff like that when I went and stuff like that she's like, what about if you come back and you don't? And I was like, I don't think that's going to be the case because like that again is we probably wouldn't

be married if that was the case. I don't need a plant-based medicine and that's what it is. As I said to people, it's a plant-based medicine to bring it like on a journey and stuff like that to see if I'm with the person for the right reasons or not. It can show you, obviously,

maybe future elements. and stuff and that's the thing but i've gotten the same level if not more with the breadwalk without taking anything well i think that's the that's the scary thing for anyone who's going to who wants to go through some sort of a transformation whether it's you know physical mental emotional uh or or just something that's grown-minded is there is always actually a fear of like what if i succeed and what if this does what it's supposed to do and this changes things from me whether this changes my relationships the people that I surround myself with um you know am i removing myself from the the inner group that i'm in now so i think that that's that is a big

fair for people isn't it that like what if what if it works on things change yeah 100% and stuff like that and it's like that again as your man said to me on the first night after the first night you said you want you don't want to see anything you're wasting your money being here you said but just allow yourself to submerge yourself when I say it to people when they're coming out for the breadway you know and they're dealing with you know big big big tees in their lives and stuff and I'm like just knowing stuff like that that I have grounded this area for you I'm not here I'm here to create a safe support of secure environment

and that's the thing with it because they did again is you allow yourself to see it well then that's when you're truly going to transform into yourself to know to whatever that version of you is you're a higher self or your authentic version of yourself. And that's what like, this is what like, ayahuasca can do for people. But there is like, you know, the Jesus, what will happen?

But I said, as I said to people, what if, what if it does? And what if I didn't do it? And that was the one thing that I needed to be the catalyst, which it has and stuff like that over the three years and stuff. Because if you say that to like maybe six or seven year old, me and stuff like that, car or whatever,

before, you know, being explorative and stuff and curious with these things, whatever. Hey, but hey, what are you on about? And stuff like that. What are you smoking in that room then? And it was just because it was closed. Do you think that you wouldn't have been open-minded to try all this stuff, like the Brett work, the ayahuasca, if you hadn't gone on your journey of self-development

through even fitness and stuff like that? Because it takes a certain open mind to try these things. and you know I don't think it's you go from like zero to 100 in terms of your open mindness to do this I think there is points along the journey in terms of a little bit more open mind

and I think that physical fitness can probably do that for people before they kind of deal with mental fitness and emotional fitness and spiritual fitness yeah 100% car and stuff like that like to know as I say like no like why do

why do it 90% of people are 99% of the people and stuff like that gain to fitness because like I I won't speak to you but I speak for me and stuff like that being bullied in some shape where capacity right and then obviously so did my self-development journey start from back then yeah 100%

why because they did again is when I went to training and stuff like I'm going to be fitter than everyone else I'm going to be air stronger and stuff that the best of my ability and stuff that I don't get pushed off the ball all of these things and like that again is yes it's been a catalyst like as I put out a post yesterday being the 19th of potentially whenever this goes out

and stuff called the 19th of June I put out a thing whatever with my ex-mentor, Brian of stepping on stage and stuff like that. So that was a part of the self-development, physical element of it. So like there always had been I know

what my body and stuff like that can do and stuff like that but non-ins and stuff like that what I can do versus what I can't with the help of people and then that just broadens their horizons and stuff even to go on self-employed it's like that again

why because I believe in myself I just had to remove those limiting factors and stuff like that just like you know if don't bring in people don't get paid don't get paid don't get fed you know and the household is not going to be

potentially happy so like it hasn't been just like as you said from zero to 100 it has always been there but like that again is it was only leveled up, should I say, and in Mario Land and stuff like that. I got to the next level and stuff like that

from like taking psychedelic. I've never just as a like a disclaimer and stuff to the people, I wanted the most anti-drugs person that you could find, but then I went to the most potent psychedelic that you can take. So you are zero to 100 kind of. you described yourself as the ginger transformation coach with a soul so what does what does that mean so what does like soulfulness bring to your coach and and where did that come from where did it come

from and stuff it's because it's obviously the industry that we're in so i don't want to like yes it probably will upset some people and stuff and that's just part and parcel of it but it's not to intentionally hurt them was I find so many, not all about, but so many coaches and influencers and stuff like that these days, unfortunately and stuff to portraying this team to people in terms of the physical, mental, emotional, spiritual fitness that is unrealistic. And as I did again, is I do it from a place of empathy. I do a place of being empathetic within the person. I know. I listen to the needs of the individual.

I don't want the results that I want you to get. I want the result that you want for yourself to be gotten. And that's where the soul comes true because from the all South Park days and stuff like that, as Ginger's don't have souls. But I can vouch that we do. And so I'm not going to turn off at the event and, you know, we have this mystical extractor thing and suck everybody's soul. But it's like that again is people come to me, yes, for results,

but they're coming to borrow my confidence as a person what I said to me for it. You're coming to me to borrow my conference. They're coming to you to borrow your confidence because they see something in you that they see in themselves. A block. And as I say, like, I don't believe in the word can't, Karen.

I don't believe it. Why? Because I did it again is if you can't do something, you just haven't been shown away, unfortunately, just yet in order to get there. And that's where the soul comes back to it as well, like, you know, is... is to help people, you know, to believe in themselves, to give themselves,

like, to feed the soul, whatever that looks like, you know, is like, you don't have to lick the concrete outside to get a result. You don't have to chump down on the grass outside to get a result. We have to meet the person of where they're at. Potentially, whatever may be negative things that they've had. And I've heard some horror stories and stuff from people that have come through, my doors, from being subjected to take laxatives I was like

what I was like and that's the thing I said that's not coaching that's like someone wanting results just so they can pop you up onto socials yeah and like that again is yeah

we do and stuff like that I said of sorry you say it's just just on the back of that and on the back of bad coaching because I remember we had a conversation before and you were telling me about your bad experiences with previous coaches

so can you say a little bit about that obviously not with disclosing names or anything like that but just in terms of the bad experiences you've had and how that's actually held to shape the coach that you are today and how you approach transformation with clients yeah yeah 100% and stuff

that's what the my transformation yesterday that went out the 19th of June like it was that the message that was sent to me that day and stuff like that is everything that fuel that fire for a positive and I can drop the name and stuff we won't we won't is I was coaching with an individual I wanted to test the waters and stuff

and see what my body was truly capable of achieving I wanted a step on stage I don't look like Brad Pitt I'd more likened to Jason Statham or one of those by us and I was a coach at the time and we were coaching

and I dropped it over maybe kind of like oh it was about it was overstone in less than like you know maybe four weeks um yeah it was overstone in about four to five weeks and i remember and stuff like that one of the girls that i walked with at the time she's like john you're going very like you know thin and gone and stuff like that is you know the the coach listening to yeah i'm sure presumably he's like you know sure it has to be sure he's the fucking coach like so then all of a sudden then there was two two transformation guys that I knew that I wasn't a client of theirs and I just said hey listen lads and stuff they're in the gym one lad and then there was another lad he was he was up north of Ireland and stuff at the time and I just said to him I said just by any chance I said you wouldn't mind having to look at my pictures and stuff I'm looking at they doing a physique I know I'm not a client to yours but I don't think I'm being listened to and I'm

they were like, yeah, yeah, no problem, stuff. So I sent on the pictures to the two chaps, like expecting to exchange money, you know, for their time. And two of them turned around to me and they said, John, you are not going to be in a position to compete and stuff like if you keep going the way you're going, because you're just going to be going around like a skinny lat or a rake. And I was like, thanks very much for your honesty. So obviously that kind of solidified what was after happening through the process.

So I'd pay this individual and stuff like that nice handsome amount of cash. So on checking and said, I said, is it, can I, I was nearly going to drop the name. I said, can we organize a call? I just want to just so want to talk to things. And he's like, oh, whatever you've got to say, you can say it through WhatsApp. So I was like, okay. So I said, look, listen, I said, there's a couple of prep coaches that are in my gym. And they noticed that I was training and hard and I lost a substantial amount to wait.

And they just put two and two together and asked where they go. want to compete. I said yes. Before I could even finish off the rest of my message I got that sent that part across and then I was constructing the rest of it got this lovely message back

and I'll read out word for work because obviously I have it here I can tap into my own Instagram was the message I received back to the listeners. If he has any clue on about said prep coach about how the body works. He'll need to know that you've got to be insulin sensitive to put on muscle. Your body

fat is way too high. Why not you will be ready to compete at that show? Bear in mind the show was a year. You need to be realistic with your body. If you want to look like a fitness model, you need to have the genetics, I'm afraid. Seeing as you're unhappy questioning my method, probably best to go with the other prep coach. End of conversation. ego. So, oh, 100%. 100%. And I was only in the game, very, very new character, should I say.

And I said to him, didn't react to the message as a ginger could have. I just responded saying, look, listen, I said, it's not that. I'm looking for your expert knowledgeable advice on it. They just said this to me and stuff like that after I had said it to them and I obviously had asked him questions. So then straight away, he's like, no, and like, it was kind of more or less the same message back, whatever. Haven't got a clue. You don't have what it takes to get up on the stage.

You don't have the look. You don't have the marketable look. So he was like, right, that's grand. So then I was lucky enough. Then there was a chap now. He doesn't do it anymore. But you may know of him and stuff like that as well. So Paul Dermody.

So I got in touch with Paul Dermody. Paul Dermody put me in touch with Ben McNamara. and Ben McMarrow couldn't take on anybody at the moment so Ben then put me in touch with a mutual friend of Paul's which is Brian Keen and then Brian brought me on the journey and I just

when I used to be in the depths of I won't say depression but the depths of like on death store when things were getting tough I just used to look at that message and I was like yeah yep get up there and we like the episode of Simpsons

when you know when Oudor's running across whatever I'd be like right now you go and do the work now you go and do it. Now you walk harder and stuff like that. And that was it. I was up 3 and a half five and stuff like because I utilized that.

And I had a screen save on my phone and stuff. Maybe it was an unhealthy way to look at things, but I needed that fire was lit. When things are tough, that's what I refer back to. And that's when it comes into my coach now when somebody comes to me and says, it can't do this, I can't do that. Why?

Because you've had a negative experience and that's why I don't want. There's people that come, Carl. Yes. They will come to my coaching and sometimes they don't get a result but like everybody gets the individualised approach to them it's what they will do and go and do

and stuff like as I say to them I'm not here to be a school teacher and like crack you across the knuckles and stuff like that and say old boy or girl or they damn now these days it's I'm going to coach you I want to give you to think on your own two feet but if you're saying you're not getting a result

you've got to look a little bit deeper are you being honest with me and I do it and stuff like that you know, like they don't even know sometimes now, obviously anybody listening to this will know now, is I'll say, can you recall what you've had in the last 24 hours? And I'll meet people and stuff like that. I can meet them in the shop.

And they'll recall everything or I've done it in my coaching practice and just have sweets there, maybe around Christmas time and stuff like that. And it's not to trick them. And I'm saying to people now they're listening. It's not to trick anybody. But it's something so simple

when you can't recall the iceberg that you've had or that. Number one, you shouldn't have to like remove a restrict. But when you can't recall the simplest of little things to me, those simple little things added up how many of those across the day could be the reason why our body fat's not dropping or body weight's not dropping. And it's not all about the scale and stuff or energy or mood and all of these things. But sometimes people need to see that moving a little bit first,

you know, before they'll obviously buy into it. And that's what I utilize. And that's what I say like, you know, I don't want you to have a negative relationship. I didn't get a negative relationship out of coaching. Luckily, with said individual, but it could have gone that way. And that's why I don't.

That's why I bring it into my coaching now. I believe everybody has the ability and stuff like that to be what they want to be and change the way they want to change. But it comes at a cost. You've got to work as well. There's no difference in, you know, you can and stuff like that, you know,

doing excellent endeavours that you're doing and, you know, creating awareness around, you know, the high, stuff that I was so grateful to be to come on you know and it's these things like you don't get to these positions or you don't get to like you know a certain and where people are coming into your into your community not by chance they're coming into your community for a reason because they see something in you that they see in themselves yeah i just think in respect to that coach like it's you know lucky that you had the you know mindset and the attitude that

that you know what, you know, fuck him, I'm going to go and I'm going to get the result with or without him and I'm going to go find someone who can actually help me. But like when you have bad coaches like that, who you can't even call them coaches because they're not coaching. They're just, you know, giving you a PDF plan, sending you on your way, won't even jump on a call to actually help solve problems. Like that's not coaching at all. But like, and then when someone gets stuck, they don't know how to solve the situation. So they just try to try to cancel the client. I mean like that that's enough if you're just like if you're a gen pop client if you're just a normal person who's who doesn't really have too much of a passion into fitness anyway like that's enough for you to be like all right well I'm just never going to try that again or I'm never going to do any endeavors in fitness again because of that bad experience which is which is unfortunate that that happens yeah you know I suppose it's like everything you know whatever good one and stuff like whatever bad one there's like 10 good ones yeah to know and that again is I want to get that across you know I don't know I want to get that a question.

the people that are listening to your podcast and stuff like that is if you've had an neighborhood experience don't let that define or paint all the other coaches and stuff like with the same brush and I said but you've got to be honest with yourself and stuff like that as well like Joe what you was and stuff like that like that like I cross paths with that individual and stuff like that I was with my wife I was in there where was I was up in that place what's called drum drum shop and center and I was like and my wife cost me goes, what's wrong with you? And I was like, oh, I see an individual across the room there.

And she was like, what? And I said, yep, there he is what he misses. And next thing, he couldn't even look at me. Couldn't even look at me. No, maybe he didn't see me. But I'd say, I'd say it. My distinct thing to see him. Yeah, I'd say, so you all right.

You also said training in a way that doesn't destroy your soul. which I think kind of embodies that as well in terms of not putting people off exercise for the rest of their life because you don't really care about the individual and you don't have any empathy for the individual and you just see them as a number. That's the thing with it and stuff like that, you know,

is like I don't believe everybody has to train like a full-time professional athlete in order to achieve. If you're training effectively and efficiently, you can get your level of results. and that's the thing, you know, to bring you on, you know, wherever that journey is and stuff like,

and I said, like, as I always say to everybody here, when I coach them, when I just come from here to jump on with you and stuff, like, Carl, is like, you're coming for weight loss and fat loss, but you're not. And the sooner, the quicker you realize that is you'll understand what you're coming to do

is put yourself first, make yourself a priority, live life in your terms, you know, enjoy, life, not feel like you know you're succumbed to certain things whatever and then as a byproduct all of those lovely things happen

so that's the thing but like I meet majority of the team and stuff like that two to three times a week and and that's it. Everything else is done in their terms outside. You said and you've

touched on this a couple of times but I'm just going to quote you as well so you said I'll try as comfy I will is courageous you are not here to dabble you're here to change how important do you think that is that intent when it comes

to transformation that you know now I'm going to try this I'm going to do it yeah there's a difference thing I'll try I will you know as like as I said to people like you know just because you do some of the work

we'll only get you some of the results I said like that again when you show off for yourself and you say I will you know go for that walk or I will make that food choice or I will you know connect with Carl or I will whatever that rewires the mind and stuff like that

that that is like an actual thing that you're going to do because you're making a commitment to yourself whereas if you say I'll try that's wishy-washy we all know it I'll try whatever and like I'll try doesn't get a result it doesn't get you your career doesn't get you like into the next position and from that perspective

and that's what I say to people is like I live by it and stuff is don't try but like be committed to yourself so we can remove those blockages and stuff like that for you as an individual because that's what it all stems down to is the lack of belief

to know that they have them within themselves from whatever has happened or may not have happened yeah to know in their lives and that's the big thing are you you said that you talked about building habits that last longer than your results.

Can you just explain that to the listeners? Yeah. So like that again, it's very easy to get a result and obviously I'll use one of the chaps, obviously, he won't mention his name and stuff, but. So,

when we talk about, like, so doing the one thing and then building that upon each other. So it's like the foundation of a house as I'll explain to people. So habit stacking. So compounding those little habits, little wins over and over and over and over again, solidifies that result, not just to the result, but longer lasting.

Because like that again is they're learning on their journey as well. In the case of one of my individuals and stuff like that, an absolute incredible person, 44 to 46 kilos down. And didn't quite frankly just say to me, I'll do the training. I'll do everything else and stuff, but I don't want to restrict myself. Okay. Well, then it was how can we work with this and how can we have a static? So all I did again is, it was like around Christmas time and it was like,

there's going to be chocolate at a plenty. So I said, well, what can you do and stuff like that in order to facilitate to enjoy yourself, to have them, but still get a level of result? Well, number one, from a movement point of view, I could maybe go for a walk. Number two and stuff from sleep hygiene and stuff, I could improve my sleep. Number three, from a mindful element of it, I could journal or could meditate it, for one, didn't like doing either. from like a nutritional point of view and stuff

like I know these foods are going to be a plenty maybe I can like to know keep a proportion of them and stuff like that outside of my quote unquote good food and I can still have it and that's what he did like he just rationed them for himself and I think he's box of heroes and stuff like the last of them all the way through Christmas

all the way through January because he had done it now some may say that was his unhealthy relationship or how it went about it. But he's like, that fulfilled him. I've lived close enough to this individual. He has kept that body weight off and he's gone more himself. Why?

Because of the tools that he learned. Because there was no restrictive processes put on him. And I think like in a, anything where things are called, go to bad and this e-number is going to give you X illness and because you were being scaremonger, left, right and center. people are so misinformed because it's the information

that people are being given is dangerous. Yes, people have bias and that's perfectly fine. Just because I eat meat, I don't put a vegan or vegetarian stuff like that to the sword. It's like that again,

we all have different things, but like when you have a stack for an individual, it helps them to build their relationships with food. Like we improve this individual's relationship with food that he started cooking for himself.

You know, so passing previously before coming he had disordered eating I would have classed it and stuff like that. Why? Because of his approach. And look, I can't have this because it'll do this to me. I can't have bread because it'll do that.

I can't have chocolate because whatever reason. You know, the clothes varies will come out and saw my clothes together and that's the reason why my clothes don't fit me anymore. But it was from a nutritional point of view and we broke down those barriers and just rewired the mindset in around it to have a stack. And I like that again, as I say,

the people, like, as I say, the mindset is upon which everything is built from a mindset perspective, from a journey's perspective. If you don't want to have your mindset, it's going to be very, very, very kind of maybe back and forth. Because if, for those that are lucky enough to, you know, to have houses and stuff in this day and age,

it's like, good solid foundation, the house will stay there. Shitty foundation, that roof is crumbling in. Hopefully you're not in and that's the same thing when it comes to a transformational journey as well like you know from a creation physical, mental emotional and spiritual as these things and touch on these things

and they don't even realize on it when we're doing it when I say it to them they're like spiritual what you're on about and then when they kind of just interweave it into the process and stuff like that whatever you know get them to understand about themselves a little bit more that's what makes the habits that more

impactful and powerful on their journey not just in but after. One thing I've seen on your Instagram that I really liked even off the back of that was eating like humans and not rabbits which I thought was very good. What truth about transformation do you

wish that people were ready to hear even if it's uncomfortable? So what do you think it is that people are avoiding that stops them or prevents them from achieving that transformation that they want, whether it's

you know, like we said, physical, spiritual. What do you think they're avoiding? The fear, I think people fear not being able to, not being able to do it because they don't believe in themselves. When it comes to like any transformation and stuff, what about if I fail and stuff like, and that's coming from, like, obviously, passing previous experiences that have mapped out their life for them.

and like one thing I think people have got to understand there's different levels of transformations and that they've got to be so like obviously like photo shoot is completely different to stage because obviously it's different ready to leaners

somebody dropping it doesn't make a difference what they drop let's know whether we one two three four five kilos because that's that's their photo shoot that's their stepping on stage aspect but there's got to be

a trade-off and I don't think people realize that. I said it doesn't mean that you've got to give up but you have to have a trade-off in some capacity, whether it's a reduction in it or you're not saying as yes to as many social occasions as

you have been. It doesn't mean that you can't go out and not enjoy yourself but there has to be a trade-off. You can't go out and have your cake and expect the result unfortunately every weekend because it just doesn't happen. And I think that again is you may obviously disagree and stuff like car or anybody else listening

and that's perfectly fine but I don't believe that can happen and I just see it from a coaching capacity but like they're going to such and such did it yeah but I said such and such wasn't out every night or wasn't out every weekend and then like having to start again you know it's like that's what you've got to look at when it comes to like a journey and stuff like I'm in the midst of like just tidying up my body shape now at the moment and stuff because obviously I've got some goals that I want to

want to achieve this year and leading into next year is like me pulling back on certain things has facilitated a three kilo drop in the last under three weeks because I didn't eat my body weight and cookies. I didn't eat my body weight in custard or Christmas pudding and yes they do have Christmas pudding and I know we're in June and it's these things that happens to know I was like I have to trade that off and stuff yes it means that you're going to be a little bit more hungry that's just part and parcel of it. But that boils down to the planning of preparation of one's journey then

and I think when something gets tough as a lady said to me here and I did a post on it recently and stuff was, Jesus, this is hard. I said yes, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it. I said it's like I know you've had some incredible people

talk about the medications and stuff like that. When it improves somebody's quality of life, yes, and it helps them and stuff like that, you know, to improve their longevity and all of these things, you know, that they can bend down, maybe pick up their kid, maybe tighter shoe laces, pull on their jocks, and it's not impacting them

anymore, taking those. But not to go on a feckin, two-week holiday to Marbea or the pizza. You know, that's what the issue lies. I said, because that's the easiness of it. I said, but like, as someone that has struggled with this in all their lives and stuff, these are the things

that, you know, have got to happen. You've got to have some tradeoffs. And unfortunately, we live in a society and stuff like that. Now, my opinion, Calgary, things are easily accessible. So as I talk to you here now, there's a shop across the way, less than 100 yards. I could easily go across there and get whatever I want. But like that again is that's just the easiness of it. But then that just pushes my goal timeframe just out a little bit more.

And I don't want to be in this tidy off phase any longer than I have to. As I said, it's like it's like having intercourse and stuff. You get in and you get out. you don't want to be in there and stuff like that whatever just just do it and that's it get out and then you can move on um so what do you think are like when someone says like when you see a client come into your vicinity and uh you have these conversations and they say that they want to change because we all say that we want to change we all say that we want transformation but what are some what are some signs that you see that that shows that that you know this person is is serious about

change that you know these signs that they they want to change like from your experience what are some like tell tell signs that's someone serious about change through true their actions versus true their words um some of some of the telltale signs and stuff I know when somebody comes in and they're committed to the process because like that again is either a they've turned up early you sometimes they're coaching and stuff like that um like they're asking questions like why why am i doing this why am i doing that what will this do for me uh why have you programmed this way and why nutrition because they get it when people come into my coach and just as an example car and stuff like get them to like do a food diary for me why because

then i can see what they're eating habits and patterns are like and i think is i'll know then the the ones that do it versus the the ones sorry excuse me don't do it i get a result potentially a little bit quicker than others. Why? Because they're doing the things that they said they would do. They're not doing the things that they said they were going to do just because they think I'm going to like hearing it. And as I say to the people and stuff, like,

I can't do anything for it. I can't go home and prep your things or can't prep whatever for you or cook your meals as much as I want it because you've got to do that for yourself. And I said, that's the difference. And the ones will ask questions every time I know and stuff every night

and stuff like that about 10 to 10 I'll get someone just from accountability they'll send across like their foods and stuff like that. Why? Because that again is that gives them a peace of mind and stuff like that when we kind of sit down and we maybe have to adjust things. Will you have that information there in front of you, Jonathan?

What do you think? Oh yeah, it's perfectly fine. I don't think we've got to adjust anything. Why? And that's the difference between someone that's no is fully invested rather than someone that's kind of half in half out. Yeah, that makes sense.

In terms of your own journey, do you have any kind of specific moments where you had to kind of change your identity to kind of evolve into the coach that you are today? Because obviously, identity change is obviously something that's really important for transformation. And that's not just an overnight thing, like identity changes over time.

But what part of your own identity, think you had to kind of let die to evolve into the person you are now today someone who is open minded someone who's empathetic someone who will go and do Brett work and will train

and we'll take on responsibility and all this stuff all this stuff like in terms of your own transformation over the years in whatever way you want to look at that like did you was there parts of your identity that you had to let go of yeah like you know

I suppose one part and stuff like that is to let go of the I can do it myself fully so when it comes with knowledge is a dangerous thing and stuff like that but again you can have all the knowledge in the world and stuff like that you may not get the level of result that you're looking for

because somebody might see something that you can't see so I'd say that and like letting go of being angry yes I get angry and stuff still but like again as being less aggressive towards things. So when I heard like, you know, hearsay of things going on, I look at things logically now and my wife hates me using that word.

You always say, look at things logically. But I don't have time for the shitty gossip, you know, what Mary doing, Timmy did down the road there, whatever, as they had a couple of hobnobs or whatever. That doesn't bring me value. So I suppose, like, those elements, things that would around me,

me up. Why you seeking so much joy and somebody else's kind of potentially misfortune? And like that again is that's a thing it's maybe it's a rural thing.

Maybe it's an urban thing. I'm not too sure, but it's those little things that I've let go of that has like help shape and don't move. And I can say things now and stuff that are quite harsh

and people are like, oh Jesus Christ. Chase he means that one. John is, I would say like I would be quite blunt. I wouldn't come across screaming it but I'll say it in a way and stuff from someone and so Jesus, that was a bit harsh

but I did again is that's what I've had to let go of of trying to as you say maybe people please were taught as potentially kids growing up don't say no to Timmy and Jimmy's sandwiches and stuff like that or the biscuits you'll only hurt their feelings

but then the only one that's been hurt then is me because I'm not utilising my language or I'm not utilizing my boundaries they serve me and that's the thing but letting them go and stuff that has helped shape their identity change that has they transformed me into

like I believe and stuff like obviously a better coach somebody out there now that might be listening to the podcast Carl Gail well that's not the case and that's perfectly fine too but that's what has helped me I feel anyway

yeah I think that people please of it is a huge huge barrier for people getting the results they want, whether it's weight loss, body composition changes, building a business, whatever it is to you, whatever your goal is, it's like you're being held back by the opinions of others like, oh, you know, I have to work today, but you know,

I told X that I would go see them, so now here I am, out having drinks with them or, you know, go into that birthday party. Well, why do I have to go to that birthday party? or having that slice of dessert. Why do I have to have that slice of dessert? And a lot of people are doing it, not because that they want to do it,

just because that they feel like they need to please others, or otherwise they're going to be abandoned from the group or the circle. I think that's a huge one. That's such a good point. Yeah, you know, it's like that again, as I said, the people, like when you do those things, and if you're constantly feeding into that, well then if you want to, like, be a rose

and you want to grow and you want to flourish, and you want to be a peacock and spread your wings whatever you've got to put yourself in the soil or the environment that's going to help you to flourish i think if you surround yourself and stuff like that like with good people like yourself well then because like i surrounded myself with you and stuff like now like we went to the event and stuff like up in dublin in the hard court hotel and stuff and now been asked to do this that wouldn't have been possible and stuff i didn't surround myself for good people so from a professional development point of view yes maybe it'll help no personally in business and stuff like that.

If it does, it does. But it allows me to get my message out from someone in the land with it. But that wouldn't be possible if I was surrounding myself with people that are all doom and gloom or, oh yeah, the weather's bad today. It's sunshine out, might get burnt.

That's going to happen anyway. And you just have to look at it from a different, through a different lens. As I say, and that's the thing with it. It's like you remove yourself from that. And I see that. Like, unfortunately, the ones that are nearest and dearest to us carol and stuff like that,

or the want that hold us back. Yeah. And I've seen it time and time again. Cut your toys. Just because you cut from the same cloth doesn't mean you've got to sit at the same table. You can still be civil, but as soon as something starts to go off

and you don't like the way the conversation is going, don't entertain it. As my wife would say to me, she was like, geez, we'll just speak, will you? I was like, if I'm not to offer this conversation, it's, I'm sitting there, like a mute, and it's going over my head. I'm not talking.

I love that. And I know that can make people uncomfortable. But that's the whole point. It's like, well, you're not uncomfortable because you're assured of yourself because you've done the work. And that's the thing. Like, you know, is it and stuff

and probably maybe family members are listening. It's like, oh, Jesus, that's why he doesn't speak to me. That's the thing with it. So basically, if Jono's silent to you, it's not a good sign for you. John, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I'm really looking forward to seeing you on the 5th of July. If people wanted to keep up with the work you do,

if they wanted to ask any questions about Brett work, about ayahuasca, about coaching in general, where can they find you? Where can they reach out and ask a question? Well, they probably won't want to know after today, Carrey. If they do want to reach out to me and stuff like that, it's over on Instagram at Jonathan underscore Hickey, the Ginger Transformation course that has a soul,

you'll see it there. If you want to connect with me on Facebook and stuff, like that they can, just Jonathan Hickey, whatever. And I'm pretty active in my DMs. Always get back to people and stuff. As I say, if somebody's got a question, I'll always answer it. I'm not an influencer.

I won't leave you unread, even when I see it. Or if you want to head over to my podcast and stuff that Built by J.H. Fitness podcast, obviously I'll have a lovely episode with yourself on it. So people can go check that out as well. And I'll always get back. So they're the most active platform. for me at this moment of time.

TikTok don't really, whatever, but you'll find me on there too. I'd highly recommend the podcast. It's very good. You're a very good host and listen, I've really enjoyed today. I will see you on the 5th of July.

Appreciate this conversation as always and thank you again, my man. I really appreciate it. Thanks very much, Carr, for having me and it's an absolute pleasure to be on.