The Uneducated PT Podcast - Episode 97 – Dead Time & Friendship: Knowing the Difference Between Depth and Utility

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

In this solo episode of The Uneducated PT Podcast, I dive into a real and often overlooked part of modern relationships — especially in the online business and coaching space. We explore the concept of "dead time" in friendship — those unstructured, agenda-free moments that build real connection — and contrast that with the transactional nature of productivity-based relationships. Is every friendship meant to be deep? Is it wrong to have people in your life just for collaboration? And how do you know when a connection is actually rooted in shared values — not just mutual benefit? Expect raw thoughts on:Why dead time is a litmus test for real friendshipThe difference between value-based and transactional connectionsWhy it's okay to have both — and how to know what you're inLessons from the online coaching world where friendships often come with a sales funnelIf you're building a business and trying to stay human, this one's for you.

Hello and welcome back to another solo episode of the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carla Ork. This is episode 97 and this is going to be very kind of raw, unfiltered, just, you know, I've a few things written down, but this is a very structured podcast, so my thoughts could go all over the place and not make any sense. But today I wanted to talk about something. I listened to this on another podcast the other day and I thought, Oh, that makes that makes loads, loads of sense. And it was basically on the loss of dead time and why dead time matters. And why it matters in particular to building friendships and connections. So I want to talk a little bit about that and talk a little bit about, you know, transactional friendship as well and, you know, catch up friends and all these kind of terms

that kind of relate to modern society and why friendship feels so much harder these days. Like if the research suggested, the statistics suggested that, you know, we're struggling to maintain friendships in this modern society that we live in. So if that sounds like you,

if you feel like you're struggling to, see, sometimes we don't even notice that we are actually struggling, like you think, a lot of times you think you have close friendships because of the trick of social media because you see your friends on social media every day as they show up posting pictures and live events

but you're not actually really there so you might have this a little or you're all in a WhatsApp group together so you have this illusion that years are close because of that but in reality you probably haven't seen each other in the last month and that's not good either so it's not just you like friendships today

just feel harder to maintain than ever before, I think. Or maybe it's just because I'm over 30 now and it's starting to feel harder with people, you know, moving into their forever homes and having kids and everything else. But I definitely don't think I'm alone in this because the statistics suggest that most people are struggling. And I don't think it's because we care any less, but because like the pace and structure of a modern life and it just makes meaningful connection more complicated than it used to be.

live in a society that's always in motion like a culture where we're told to optimize everything our bodies our calendars our productivity and even our relationships so time feels scarce like it feels like you have no time true today to do anything and you have to make every moment count like every interaction is meant to be efficient or profitable or impressive um so we're not just friends anymore like where each other's networking opportunities and side hustles and accountability buddies like you know I have a thing where all if my friend wants hang around with me we have to go to the gym because I need to get my training session in and like that's fine and all but it's also like hanging around with me then comes at a cost you know and I don't think that's good all the

time either. I'm just this self-optimisation, you know, which obviously the influence of hustle culture and social media obviously plays a big role in that amplifies, you know, it amplifies everything. So we're consistently exposed to highlight reels and, you know, gym selfies at 6am in the morning, productivity Sundays and dream jobs and perfect homes and thriving side businesses. and even social connections get filtered and packaged as content like group selfies and curated night outs and you know posts about catching up with your best friend

and then it can end up feeling more performative than personal and I think I've definitely contributed to this so like you know I'm not judging anyone when I say this and it's like you know you're putting up pictures of you and your friend you know out having I don't know cocktails or whatever and sometimes then it's like it's not even about actually hanging around with the person it's about um curating this this this this persona online of of you being able to focus on your social health as well as everything else um and it creates this like unspoken message

that if your time with people isn't productive or aesthetically pleased and is it even worth it um And the result is this kind of strange paradox where we're connected more than ever online and yet we're often isolated offline and we follow our friends lives through stories and posts but we're not really living it with them. Like we're not there. We're spectators teach each other's existence but we're not participating in it. You know like I'm following my friends and I'm seeing them post all these kind of milestones, you know, moving into their new house or having their first child and but it's like oh but you know i probably haven't like just chilled out with them in like a month um so you're not really there even though you're there and like that's where this kind of

the loss of dead time comes into play and and why it why it matters like so like dead time is it's it's kind of hard to explain but it's like this space where nothing much is really happening like when we're younger right we would just hang out with each other like there's no agenda there's no activity to justify it like yeah like we don't have to go to the gym together or um you know it's not a scheduled meet up to see your friends once a week or once a month like you're just sitting on the curb you know uh chilling out on the estate just talking shit or you're waiting for the bell to go in school and you're just chatting away and you know having fun or you know line on a friend's floor, you know, talking about absolutely nothing but also everything and it's

actually a great conversation. Or you're sitting in the car on a long drive or you're just walking aimlessly through, you know, through the town after school or, you know, anywhere and everywhere. Like the whole idea of lost, of dead time, of the loss of that time is like when you were bored, it created this fertile ground for connection. It made space for these unfiltered conversations that, you know, gave room for depth and humor and vulnerability. And, you know, that's when the best stories came out. And, like, that's when you really, really got to know the people that ended up becoming your best friends. That the people that you have known for your whole life now, you know, that came through dead time.

That's when you really felt close to someone. Not because you planned it, but because you simply just existed beside them long. enough to for the magic to happen of conversation but now our time is scheduled it's segmented it's like sanitised like we meet for a coffee or a dinner out with our friends and we go through this like mental checklist of like housework and how are the kids and how's the new house and you know you talk a little i talk a little and we then we both get back to our busy lives because we've we've ticked off this catch-up task that we've had to complete and because everything feels so pressured like the stakes for hanging out go higher and higher

And it's no longer just about, it's no longer enough to just sit on a bench and chill with your friend on the green or whatever it is. Like plans now often require a full evening, drinks, dinner, reservations, babysitters. You know, it has to be an occasion. Like it has to be someone's birthday. Like hanging out has to be worth the cost. Like in time, energy, money. Like, all right, we only get to see each other once a month. So let's make the most of this.

so we've replaced presence with we've replaced presence with pressure or purpose maybe is the right word but it's you know it's quietly exhaust and like it actually it takes a lot for you and now to go see your friends because the stakes are so high that it has to be this big thing

so like we miss friendships where you can just show up where there doesn't need to be a performance or entertainment it doesn't need to be a big thing where we all go down to the pub together on a certain day you know

it's like we're missing where silence is allowed you know and there's no clock running in the background like oh I have an hour we have an hour for food or we have an hour for luncher we have from 6 o'clock to 10 o'clock tonight and we're not just like catching up on each other's lives but simply living

a part of life together if that makes sense like you're living life together. That's what friendship used to be was living life together. It's probably a better way to put it. So we miss the people who don't need a scheduled calendar invite to sip beside us, like, who don't need an occasion to, you know, hang out, um, to talk for hours about absolutely everything and anything. Like, if, you know, when were you able to just show up at a friend's house and just chill there for a couple of hours and not feel the need to get up and and leave because you know you have work on monday or whatever it is um so like we have can we we understand that we need connection

but we also kind of need different connection as well like slower more real less forced you know that that kind of space to do nothing but just sit there and chat shit and you know make funny jokes and on to each other's joke and, uh, you know, not have to get dressed up and, uh, just be able to chill. I, and like, just be part of each other's lives without like, um, monetising it or optimising it or anything like that. I think that is something that we're missing. We're missing like, you know, dead, dead time where you don't have to do anything or be anywhere. Um, and I understand that that's not possible. Like, you can't. You can't just do that all the time because, all right, we have work and we have responsibilities.

And, you know, like, again, there's so much pressure to get so many things done in this day and age and to make enough money to be able to survive and feel like, you know, just keep up with everyone else. So I'm not saying that you, like, you need to lounge around all day doing absolutely nothing. with people because that's not realistic either and you know i know myself if if i was to try and do that i would be getting anxious because i'm like okay well i have i have shit to do i've i have to go to the gym i have to send these emails i have to you know record this podcast i have to like i i can't just sit around and do nothing but at the same time sometimes that is the best thing that you can do is just sit around and do nothing and just talk shit with a friend and not have any kind of schedule or time

or you know box ticking activity to get done if someone's birthday or christening or you know it doesn't have to be a catch up friend that you know let's catch up really quick on everything that we've been missing out on the last month and I'm not saying that that's not important either like you need catch up friends you need people that you know you spent your whole life with and you realistically can't see them all the time or maybe they live a little bit further away so you only do get to catch up once a month and and that's important important too to schedule them coffees or scheduled at dinner or schedule or or see them at the next birthday party or see them at the next christening or the next wedding like they're important too um

but i do think that there's a there's a there's a there's a place for just this dead time where where you can just show up and just you know chat about anything and everything and everything and it also leads me on to kind of these uh value-based friendships or more importantly, like transactional friendships. And this is probably a lot, this is probably a lot more relatable to me being in like a collaborative kind of space. Like if you're in an industry like online coaching or business networking or content creation, like it's common for relationships to be built around mutual goals like productivity and profit and visibility and shared projects, whether that's, you know, jumping on a podcast together or running an event together or

or loads of different things. But like there's a big difference between these transactional alliances and then an actual value based friendship. Like it's easy in online spaces particular, I think anyway. It's easy to make like consistent collaboration or to make the mistake of consistent collaboration or mutual benefit for like real friendship.

But if the connection disappears the moment you're not useful to that person that person is not useful to you like that's a transactional bond not a value based one um and in an industry where everything moves fast relations relationships often come with agendas um and value-based friendships are are rare but they're essential like they're not just about who can help you win or who you can help win um but also who you want to win with and why um and like like i'm not distant transactional friendships like they're totally okay i have a lot of them myself like i think they're natural and necessary they're part of modern life especially in the you know entrepreneurial

space uh the coaching consulting content creation like i have friends who i only really catch up with when we're meeting up at events or whatever it is and I think that's okay as well. So transactional friendships, they're not bad. They're just different. Like not every relationship needs to be deep or vulnerable or long term. Like sometimes mutual value exchange is exactly what you need and what someone else needs. And they serve a purpose. Like you meet someone for a project, you collab, you both get you want, you both get what you want.

And that's a win as well. Um, you know, not every connection will be, become a best friend. It's impossible. Um, but can still open doors and ideas and audiences. Um, and also they can evolve. Like, some of the deepest friendships do start off as transactional. Like shared work can be a gateway to shared values. Um, which is a great thing. So, but not every transactional friendship is, is going to be that way. And it can't be that way either. Um, But you know what they're great because they're low in maintenance like you don't I don't feel like when I'm I don't feel like I have to make too much of an effort to meet up with that people other than work And which again because we live in a fast pace environment because you're spreading yourself so thin and It's it's impossible to be it's it's impossible to have these great deep friendships with everyone anyway And these these kind of friendships they can come with like fewer emotional obligations obligations, which is important. So I think the key is self-awareness. Like, like, the challenge isn't having transactional friendships. It's mistaken them for something that they're not. You know,

you expect depth or loyalty from a connection built on utility. That's a problem. Like, you feel hurt when someone pulls away after the mutual benefit is gone. That's a problem. Like, you're not honest with yourself about what the relationship really is, that's a problem. Like some people are there to help you grow in a business sense and that's okay. So you want to have kind of this mix of transactional connections and value-based friendships, obviously. Like expand your reach, push ideas, create momentum, like that's transactional. Like, but, you know, a value-based friendship is going to keep you angered, it's going to help you stay true to your principles and support you emotionally and ethically and be there to support you. But again, it's really, really, I think it's,

I think it's just really, really hard to navigate friendship these days because, you know, it's like, oh, am I seeing this person enough? Am I just seeing this person because we used to spend a lot of time together when we were younger? Do I feel like I'm being forced to make the effort here? do I really, do I think this person is really, really important to me? But should they understand that I'm really busy at the moment and, you know, I'm not in a position to be able to catch up every single day with you? It's, you know, is this person more in a sense, you know, me from me in terms of like my work and and helping me with work and me helping them work? And do we both understand that this is a transactional friendship rather than a. you know value based friendship where like the the connection is a little bit deeper and like we can

actually have conversations outside of work that don't need to be productive don't need to be optimized don't need to be monetized um i think i think you need all of them i think you need people that you can just hang out with and there doesn't need to be a time limit and you can just talk shit and you don't need to make sense and you can just be goofy with each other. I think that's that's the that's what we would call the dead time friendships, you know, and then obviously your catch up friendships, you know, people that you, people that matter to you, but realistically, the only way that you're going to be able to stay in contact is, you know, catch up dinners and dates and life occasions. and that's okay as well but I do think that if we just focusing on you know friendships that feel

like a checklist friendships that feel like you know scheduled time and friendships that are transactional that are just purely based around work and I think if we only have them I think that can become a problem because sometimes all we need is just someone who we're just going to you sit in their living room have a cup of tea make stupid jokes with talk shit and um there's no pressure to be anything other than yourself there's no pressure to get up and be dressed up to go for lunch or be dressed up to go for drinks or get dressed up to meet everyone else uh for the social occasion and then not really get to uh you know live life with that friend rather than just um check up on what they've been doing and you talk i talk you talk you

talk I talk. So we need to I think we need to get back to experience life with friends rather than just rather than just kind of observing their life through a highlight reel and

and quick one day dinners every every month or so. So I hope that makes sense. There's just some of my thoughts that I wanted to kind of get down and express

and, you know, still trying to work them out myself. But, yeah, anyway, if you enjoyed this podcast, you know what to do. Make sure you share it with your friends. Make sure you share it with your family. Make sure you share it on social media, sharing on your stories, whatever you have to do. We will have a special guest on Wednesday coming on, and I look forward to that. And, yeah, if you have any comments, if you have any opinions, make sure you let me know. and I'll see you on the next one.