The Uneducated PT Podcast - Episode 98 – From The Bank To The Gym Floor With Frankie Lawlor 

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

Episode 98 – From The Bank To The Gym Floor With Frankie Lawlor A Conversation with Frankie In this raw and real episode, Frankie joins us to talk all things strength  both inside and outside the gym.From her beginnings as a personal trainer to navigating the highs and lows of her own fitness journey, Frankie shares the wisdom she's gained through experience, mistakes, and mindset shifts. We dive deep into the pressure women feel around lifting heavy, the pitfalls of programme hopping, and the often unspoken transition from chasing aesthetics to training for performance.Frankie also opens up about burnout, body image, and why failing in the gym might be the most empowering thing you can do. But this episode goes beyond reps and routines. Frankie speaks candidly about grief, loss, and how personal tragedy reshaped her perspective. Whether you're new to training, a seasoned lifter, or just someone trying to make peace with where you're at, this one’s for you. Tune in to hear:The truth about motivation and long-term consistencyThe toxic side of social media in fitnessWhat Frankie would tell her younger selfHow grief taught her to honour both softness and strength

Frankie, can you tell the listeners a little bit about what you do for work? Sure. So I am an online coach and I work with women, mostly kind of over the age of 35, mostly mams, who are looking to lose weight, get into a bit of shape, maybe do a little bit of training. But more importantly, like just to feel a little bit like themselves again. What do you think are some of the main issues or struggles that they have when they come searching for help with you? So like the main one for themselves would be time and they think like that they don't have time and that they have to do you know something that's going to take up a lot of their time that they have to completely overhaul their lives. And like so when I chat to them really it's about going through the basics, you know. And a lot of this stuff doesn't take up a huge amount of time. Like they think they have to completely overhaul their lives that they possibly have to be in the gym five, six, seven days a week because these are the things they see online. Yeah. And. you know, this is the information they're getting bombarded with and really, like, time doesn't have to be so much of an issue. Like, in fairness, a lot of them are working. They've got kids. They've got husbands at home as well. And they're doing all of this work in the house. They're

doing all this work outside the house. They're dropping kids here, there, everywhere. So they have very, very little time for themselves, but they also don't do very much for themselves at all. That kind of leaves them, you know, in a bad position where I just find, like, like they feel like they're sort of missing an identity. All they do is work outside the home and work inside the home. And it's very little kind of what do you do for yourself, do you know what I mean? That doesn't have to be spending hours in the gym. But even going for a walk, listening to an audio book, getting out of the house after you make the dinner,

just makes a huge difference to their whole self-worth. You know what I mean? How they feel in themselves, about themselves, doing something, you know, around, you know like drinking water looking after fruit and veggies looking after

themselves makes a big difference to just how they feel about themselves you know and I think that's the biggest change really so let's say there is

someone listening to this and they're like well I do have fuck all time and I do want to get in shape or I want to become healthier or fit or I want to lose a bit of weight

but like how do I do that if I have you know barely any time to myself like is there a concept of you kind of having to kind of help them to focus on. Like I think we fall into the mistake of thinking more is better, right? Yes, exactly.

And like I would say to them as well, because a lot of people say to me, geez, you must be in the gym five, six days a week. I'm not. I go three times a week and that is it. And it's an hour three times a week. You know, it's no more than that. And it doesn't have to be. But a lot of them, because they just want to lose weight initially,

they don't even have to go to the gym. And that's something they don't realize. And I think it's so out there that, you know, you have to be exercising to lose weight or you have to be, you know, lifting weight. You have to be going on a treadmill. You have to be running. And you don't. So a lot of the things that I teach my women really don't take up much more time.

Like I have them initially drinking their water. You know, we need to be drinking about three liters of water. Most women and no, none of them are anywhere near that when they start. That doesn't take up any more time in their day. getting enough sleep again it doesn't take up any more time in their day they go to bed a little bit earlier or they stay off their phones for a little while at night

again that's not something that's going to take any extra time for them those two things alone make such a huge difference to how they feel to their digestion to their weight loss to everything the other kind of thing we would look at would be their fruit and veg and again

no one is hidden near enough the amount of fruit and veg they should be eating again they're making the dinners anyway for everybody so it's really not about meal prepping or any of that we don't do that we just don't do it because we don't have the time but like i give them an idea of here's quick easy meals that you can make that are high in protein high in fruit and veg keep you full the whole family probably eat them and we just look at those kind of things so small tweaks that don't take up too much time in your day yeah i think when people are listening to this they're like oh well that sounds that sounds like

such obvious advice, go for a walk, drink water, eat vegetables. But like simple, I think the misconception people have is, that sounds too simple for it to work. Yeah. And I think, honestly, yeah, they, like, that's what people say to me. Like, they cannot believe the difference, even drinking water makes their skin, their energy levels, they sleep better, the digestion is better. And it's honestly as simple as drinking water. And I think people think there has to be more of a secret than that. You know what I mean? There has to be a more complicated thing.

There has to be something, you know, that nobody knows about. But people are honestly just skipping over these basics, looking for some secret hack that doesn't exist. Yeah, I think people misunderstand that simple, just because it's simple advice doesn't mean that it's easy to implement. And it's actually, like you said, because people have no time for themselves,

they neglect their health and they actually neglect, drinking the glass of water or eating the vegetables or taking that extra little bit of time to make that meal for themselves and then obviously that's when the problems start to fall into place a couple of months or years down the line. Yeah, like a lot of the women that I work with

before I start working with them, they'll skip breakfast completely. Their lunch might be in a big rush if they're thinking that they're trying to lose weight, they'll probably have like a veggie soup and maybe raviitas or something like that. So when it comes to the evening time, they've pretty much had no protein. They've had very little food. And then they wonder why are they shoveling all the biscuits and chocolate and everything down their neck as soon as they sit down?

Like, because you've had nothing to eat. You know what I mean? You haven't filled your belly. And like the simple concept of taking the time to even you don't have to eat the breakfast on, you know, there on the way of the door. It's really busy for moms in the morning, getting kids out to school and people out to work and everything. Bring it with you. Have it at your desk if you must. but that you have it, you know what I mean?

And it's not a case that you're needing all those calories then later on at night because you haven't had anything in the morning because you've had very little at lunch. Yeah, I think people, they fall into the trap of thinking, oh, I've no self-control or I've no willpower because I'm raiding the presses at night, but they don't really, like, they're not curious to ask themselves to questions, well, why am I raiding the press at night? Well, maybe it's because you've literally ran off steam and you haven't had any food throughout today.

so therefore your body is is craving calories it's craving energy and that's physical hunger yeah and like i think it's something women of my age group anyway would have grown up with like you know special k for breakfast if you're on a diet with skimmed milk soup and rivedas or a tiny bit of brown bread with no butter for lunch you know absolute rabbi food um and it's honestly like they're just eating carbs if they're eating at all they're not eating enough protein they're kind of in the mindset that the skinniest self is the best self that they shouldn't be lifting weights because they don't want to end up looking like men, they don't want to end up bulky. And they're really just coming from like a bad place in say the 90s, the 80s and 90s where Weight Watchers was the thing.

And now then maybe probably onto Slim and World and the scales is the absolute be all and end all. Like I've had so many women come to me from Slim and World with a really, really bad relationship with the scales, a bad relationship with their food. And it's so awful to see like that, you know, as soon as the scales goes up, they panic. They absolutely panic. And it's just about re-educating people that the scales goes up and down every single day. Like when you think about it, if you're going to drink three liters of water during the day, you're obviously going to be heavier later on the day.

It's not fat. Like the scales doesn't equal fat. And that's something that like really kind of you need to educate them around again. How do you do that? Because obviously that is your demographic. it's it's people who grew up in in in in culture and you know their self-worth is tied to the number on the scales and you know i suppose they're they're freaking out all the time when the scales goes up and you know they're celebrating when it goes down and um you know they're trying to control for that all the time

like that must be a difficult thing to do i i suppose it's it's it's it's reinforcing or like continuing to have that conversation again and again again kind of you're all my holding their hand, aren't you? And just being like, because I think you can't just give someone advice and then for it to like land in their brain. It has to be said a million different times in a million different ways

and just reinforce that, I think. Because you're, if you're, if you've been constantly getting messages through a decade of, you know, a decade of, you know, you need to be lighter. You need to be this way on the scales. Like it takes a long time to, uh, unpack that and to,

to change the narrative in people's brain. It really does. So like a lot of the times these women are going from say like a weekly weigh in and dependent like it really is quite individual but for a lot of people I would probably get them to weigh every day and they kind of become desensitized to the fact that or not even desensitized but like more knowledgeable oh yeah you know I didn't sleep great last night or I did maybe have my meal a bit later and I've weighed in a bit earlier you know and it does definitely help to educate them around that.

If people are still feeling really triggered by it and you know by the regular weighing I'll stop them weighing. Yeah. Yeah. And say look at your photos. Look at your clothes. We all have these certain pairs of jeans

that are maybe tighter, you know, at certain points in our life are a little bit looser and we tend to go by how are our clothes feeling, how are our photos looking because for the most part, for women anyway, you can't necessarily trust what you're seeing in the mirror

because you know you've got such bad negative self-image and negative body image you know so we we use a number of tools and body measurements as well so a lot of the time the women can see okay maybe my scales have stayed the same but my waist measurements are down or you know my hip measurements are down whatever it might be i think that's a good i think that's a good message as well for personal trainers or personal trainers starting off who might be listening to this podcast as well is that there's not one way to do things. It's like, okay, I would be in the exact same camp as you where I think weighing daily is far more beneficial than maybe doing it once a week or whatever. And then taking the average over the week and that's going to be more realistic.

And then actually looking that, taking another step back and looking at that over the course of a month. But again, if it's too triggering, then not using the scales at all. but I think personal trainers end up falling to this camp of, oh yeah, the scales is great, use the scales or, like, definitely rely on the scales or definitely don't rely on the scales where I think it's in the, it's individual circumstances, right? Yeah, and particularly when you're working with women, I think not looking at the scales on this week versus last week. So because, you know, our cycle will vary, our weight varies a hugely amount during that cycle.

So I would say to the women, like, look at your weight in this week of this month compared to the same week of last month rather than judging it, you know, because, you know, week three compared to week two, it's going to be completely different for women, you know. So there's no point in beating yourself up over the way that your body naturally will go

from month to month. It's just that, you know, the higher point this month will be lower than the highest point last month and I think that's a more important thing to be looking at. What inspired you to become a personal trainer in the first place? So I left a job in the bank to be a home with my kids. I had two small kids at the time and I missed them so much. Like I just didn't want to do that kind of work anymore.

I was on my way into my corporate job one day and I saw a paramedic help, a woman on the dart and just saw the connection between them and how he had helped her. And I was like, what am I doing, going in here trying to get money back. off people that we had lent out. I don't want to do this job. Like this is not for me. I want to help people. Like that's why that's what I enjoyed about being in the bank in the first place. By the time I went back after how the kids, it wasn't the same type of job. You know, the economy is different. And I said, I'm leaving. And everyone was like, you're mad. You're mad. Don't leave a good job with a pension. You've no plans. You've nothing to do. But I said,

look, I'm doing it anyway. And when I was at home all the time, it's difficult. You know, you're minding two small kids. You're stuck in the house on your own. you've no kind of adult conversation or connection. And I joined a TREX class. One rainy Thursday night, I said, look, I'm just going to try this. I'm not sporty. I've never done anything like this before, but I absolutely loved it. And I started to go more often.

And I was like, I think in a class situation, you know, you don't just go for the exercise. You go for the relationships that you build up or your trainer and the other people in the class. It's just amazing. And I said, look, I can do this as well, I think. So I went back and I did. a TRX training course and a boxer size course and I set up a load of classes around my area and I would teach it was mostly women and I just absolutely loved it we would have such good crack and the women would come in they'd work really really hard and they enjoyed it and I just loved it

and I was like right I'm going to go back and do my PT and so that's what I did I went back to Trinity and I did a year-long course and before that like I hadn't really lifted where It was more like, you know, boxer size, boxing, T.R.X. Mytile, all that kind of exercise. But I just really enjoyed it. Like, and I really found it just so beneficial for my body. But at the time when I was doing my PT course, my sister was diagnosed with a brain tumor. So I almost dropped out because I didn't want to be spending my weekends in college when I could have been spending them with her. But she said, no, look, this is really important. I want you to do it. So I would go to college. during the day, I'd stay over in the hospital with her at night time and then go back into college

the next day. And unfortunately, she passed away when I was kind of in the middle of the course in the January. But I kept going. I think seeing her so sick, she had been really fit before that, and she was really getting into, you know, how her body would feel good from all the exercise that she was doing. And I was just like, do you know what, how dare I pick a part of my body for what it looks like? How dare I say, oh, you know, your legs aren't thin enough or, you know, you don't have a six-pack or whatever it might be. And not be just so grateful that you have this healthy body that does what it needs to do, that gets you through your life. Like, you know, I'm just so grateful for that. I'm so grateful to be able to exercise, to be able to move, to keep.

my body is healthy as I can. I just think that's something we just take for granted, you know. Yeah, you were talking about your sister, obviously, the event on Saturday as well. Did it change your perspective on life a little bit after that happened? Yeah, in some good ways and some bad ways, like... What do you mean? Because it makes you really grateful for your life, but it also made me really anxious that, you know, bad shit happens, you know?

And I find that really scary, especially. is a ma'am. More recently, we lost my nephew. My sister was 39 weeks pregnant and little baby Jack unfortunately passed away. And just stuff like that, although it makes you grateful for your own life,

it makes you really anxious that, you know, bad stuff can happen all the time and at any moment, and especially having kids, like your own heart is literally walking around outside your body, you know, And it's made me like very controlling over the kids and what they do just because I want to keep them safe. And what, and what good ways then has it changed your perspective? Well, like, I'm obviously like very grateful to be here and you just enjoy all the small moments.

Like, you know, sitting down with your kids watching TV even is just for me that's something to just soak in like and just really enjoy every second of it. What do you think fitness has done for your relationship with your kids? I definitely think it's improved my relationship with my kids because I do find, and I'm not the only one who says this, like I find this with a lot of the women that I know and the women that I work with. If you're not doing something for yourself actively outside of the house to feel like yourself to release some of your stress, it's going to make it very difficult at home. like it's very hard to work to manage a house to raise the kids and you know it's stressful there's a lot going on there's a lot to do and you can get irritable and snap you with people but if you've taken that hour out for yourself and done something it doesn't even have to be going to the gym it could be gone for a walk it could be going out for a coffee with a friend whatever it might be if you've taken an

hour for yourself regularly you're a much better person you're a much better mom it's much easier to take the little irritations on the chin and not kind of blow up at everyone over it. Yeah, that makes sense. I find it interesting that you first got into training because like you said, it was like getting out for an hour for yourself, more for your head,

so you have something for you rather than probably like Frankie the Moom or, you know, Frankie in work and stuff like that. I think that's also like a misconception that a lot of trainers have is that every single person that walks through their doors, walks through the doors because they want weight loss or they want muscle going. Yeah. Yeah.

And I just found like with the classes, you know, that kind of thing is so important. The community, like when I used to coach small group PT as well in urban fitness in Dunleary and that absolute atmosphere and the joy you get from it and people come back for the friendships and okay, they're working away at the same time. But, you know, it makes such a difference. like people who don't enjoy the gym I think really could get so much more out of being in classes like that

like your class like small group PTs I think you get so much more from that and I've seen I've seen clients in the past who like I did group training with them like and you know sometimes group training and like it's it's not going to be the most optimal all the time but you don't need it to be optimal for

some people especially if you're just coming in from not doing any training at all anything is really going to work anything's going to help you to see results and if it gets you to the stage where you've gone from not entering a gym to actually enjoying fitness now like that can also then be a progression

to like okay you might do something a little bit more sophisticated down the years where it's like okay I'm gonna get an online coach and do a one-to-one program and really focus on the specifics and progressive overload and being really consistent with that I think it can be a gateway into that journey as well

yeah and like that's what I used to say to clients when I was getting them to sign up when I worked in urban fitness that like invest maybe three to six months in this you will learn so much like I've said this to women before when I used to teach the the weightlifting classes as well like you wouldn't get in a car without knowing how to drive without having lessons and it's like that you know going to a class like your own or like any small group PT you just learn all those skills that you need and then you can go off at another stage you know join any cheap gym if you want to you know and you'll have

those skills for the rest of your life. It's so, so important. Yeah. And I think it's important to learn them skills because it is, it is like, I think people are, are personal trainers or online coaches are afraid to say it because it sounds like they're trying to keep people in their business. But it is something you should be pursuing for the rest of your life is, is fitness and is strength training. Yeah. Like, it's, you know, I always harp on about women, like, but that, that's the main kind of people I work with. But when we, we, you know, it's, you know, I always harp on about women. Like, but that's, we get older and we get into menopause like your bones get weaker

you know like women are more likely to fracture their hips and I think I read a statistic where half of the women that go into hospital with a fractured hip don't come out they die they get some other disease or pneumonia or something in the hospital and that's the end of them you can prevent this or make this as unlikely as possible by strength training now like when you're getting into your 30s your 40s

your 50s, this is kind of your last chance to do it. You know what I mean? So get out there, like, and start lifting the weights and have someone there beside you, like yourself, who's going to show you exactly how to do it, you know, and you can go off and do it yourself then, but like getting those reps in now is just so, so important. It's never too late to start, but, like, start as soon as you can. Yeah, I think strength training is literally the only real anti-age and hack that there actually is. Yes. It's so important. But, like, start as soon as you can. Yeah, I think. important and I suppose it's even more difficult for you in your job because you have your helping a demographic that was probably put off strength training yeah like they're so focused on

fat loss and I think even more so as they come into perimenopause and menopause and your body composition changes so like you've less muscle and the more years you go by without doing anything to actively preserve that the less muscle you'll have the more body fat you'll have even at the same weight you will look completely different than you used to look when you were 20 years younger. But the only way to get that back and to look really, really good is to lift heavy weight. And heavy is not necessarily you start off with a really, really difficult weight, but, you know, it's relative. So when you start off, a small weight is a heavy weight for you and that will make a difference.

And you just keep building that up as you go along. What advice would you have? Because I didn't know that about you that you used to work in a bank. And what advice would you have for people who, let's say, they're not quite happy in the role that they're in at the moment? They want the career change, but they're almost terrified of taking the risk because they also have responsibilities.

What advice would you have? I thought you were going to ask me for financial advice there. I need that to you. So do I. No, look, it is difficult. It is a difficult decision to make. But you have to remember that you get one life. And do you want to live it like hating your job or not happy in it?

Because, you know, it's one life, but it goes by so quickly. And it could be taken away tomorrow. And, you know, you spend so much time in your work that it really could be a big part of how you feel about yourself and how you're feeling in life. So I honestly think you need to take these risks. If it doesn't work out, those are the type of jobs you can always go back to at any stage if you need. to you know it's not it's not going to be the end of the world if you do it and it doesn't work out you've probably learned something along the way yeah so you've no you've no regrets over taking the risk and going into the career you've gone into so a lot of people have that

leave insert nightmare i have the working in the bank nightmare where i'm back in that office and i'm like oh jesus i hate this um how would you describe yourself as a trainer like do you think has your approach or you're thinking around clients and around training clients has it changed over time has it evolved over time? Yeah, absolutely. So when I just had the two boys, I got into training and fitness after that. And, you know, I was like in really good shape, couldn't understand why are all women not doing this?

You know, this is absolutely crazy. Why would you not? Then I got pregnant again and six weeks after my youngest was born. It was COVID. It was lockdown. I had been planning, okay, this next week, I'm back to the gym. I'm back to, you know, being back to my usual self. No. So for about two years, I couldn't get to the gym. There was my coping mechanism. Absolutely gone down the toilet. I had this body that wasn't a personal trainer anymore. It wasn't a fit person. It wasn't anything I knew. And I was like, what the hell? But you know what? It put me back in my client's shoes. before that I would have been posting pictures on my abs and all of these selfies and everything like that but I remember sitting in that postpartum body looking online at other trainers with their abs and I felt like shit and I said I'm not going to do that to anyone else I'm not doing that anymore and I think it put me in my client's shoes it put me back in the position where I didn't have all this time anymore I had a

small baby who was absolutely stuck to me for the first four years of his life I couldn't get to the gym I wasn't fit I wasn't in my best shape anymore and it just completely changed my whole outlook on it it made me realise that we don't all have this time to go to the gym six, seven days a week

and I think it definitely changed me for the better you know it made me realise what other women were dealing with again do you think the personal trainers feel like they have this pressure to look a certain way and by trying to look this certain way, they're actually making themselves less relatable to the people that are trying to help.

Yeah, 100% I think that is exactly the case. And I feel like, because I don't put up a lot of pictures of myself, you know, and I purposely, I'm like that. Like, I took a decision not to do that. I'm like, it does make it harder to get clients. And then each time I have put up a video or something where you can see my shape, maybe in it,

you get more clients. it's not necessarily how I want to get clients because just because a personal trainer can get themselves into shape it doesn't mean they can help anyone else you know what I mean? Like it really it doesn't say much about them as a coach at all

but I do think it makes it more difficult to get clients if you're not putting up those kind of pictures. It's also it's there's also right you could think about it from the other side of it as well as like oh like like is there any wrong with me showing up in my body to like perform this exercise and if the if

me shown up in the body that I have helps me to gain more traction to get more clients like is that almost a bad thing if you're like if the the main goal for you is to provide value in that that video whether it's like all right I'm showing you how to perform a squat versus like let's say a personal trainer who is like just you know put up a picture of them at their best angle using a filter like they don't really look like that when they're relaxed and using that as advertisement for you know getting more clients in like I think there is a difference there like I don't think yeah I don't think you should have to hide your body either

does if that makes sense yeah no I do I get what you're saying I suppose it's more like I was looking at pictures recently where this trainer put up I thought people look looked like this all the time with their muscles bulging their abs, you know, their six-pack going. And it was only because she put a comparison beside it where she was relaxed and said, like, this, I don't look like that all the time. I'm a trainer and I didn't realize that she didn't look like that all the time. I thought most of these people are going around looking shredded 24-7. And it made, it even makes me go, oh, why don't I look like that, you know? So I can only imagine for other people like, you know, how they might not believe.

give like why can't I look like that all the time. They don't look like that all the time. Yeah. And I think that's why social media, it's a hard place to navigate because it's like, you don't want to contribute to that. You don't want to contribute to like, you know,

the person who's doing a body check and then giving you like what I eat in a day. And like if you eat like this, you're going to look exactly like me. Like forget about genetics. Forget about everything else. Forget about the 20 years of training and forget that. I'm on whatever enhancements like eat this. And, you know,

obviously that's right. wrong as well. But then I think we can over correct as well and like people can demonize other trainers for, you know, taking a picture with their top off and maybe they felt good. Maybe they were on the beach and maybe they wanted to take a picture. Like I don't think I don't think there's anything wrong or immoral about that either. I think it's it's you're trying to find the balance between that. It's like you're trying to help the people that you want to help but also not put too much restraint on yourself either. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's probably yeah, I'm probably a bit over-sensive about. it like well I think it's definitely I think it's that it's definitely relative to the people that you work with 100% as well and like the the your approach is is definitely going to be important for that but then like you said as well like you you you put a you put a video up showing your body and you probably get more traction you probably get more clients and you also then you could probably bring them in and and help them with what they actually need so it's like it's a hard to know isn't it's hard one to navigate

I do find you know all these like photo shoot preps and stuff it's not just coaches who do I see a lot of um I see a lot of population people doing it and like this was something I meant to speak about at the talk the other day because like honestly I find people are just walking themselves into a disordered eating pattern into a really bad relationship with their body they're looking back of at these pictures constantly that they're not able to maintain that shape they really really really suffered to get into that, you know, unattainable or like unsustainable position. And then they're posting the pictures of themselves like that all the time. And they no longer look like that.

And they are just comparing themselves constantly to it. Yeah, I 100% agree. I think it's the, the photo shoot now is just a new enhanced version of the, of the 90 day transformation. And then you're just constantly reposting that picture of you when you were extremely lean that is just not maintainable. and people think that you look like that all year round or the same with the photo shoot.

So yeah, I will 100% agree with that. Is there anything that you would do differently looking back at your career? Oh God, that's a tough one. Do you know what? I'm kind of glad the way it has evolved. You know, like I probably cringe at maybe how I used to show up on social media before I had Nita.

And like, as I was saying, as that person, always doing the like morning ab checks or constantly you know check myself in in facebook whenever i was in the gym i was probably really annoying the shit out of a lot of people the shit out of a lot of people um so i definitely think he came along at the right time to make me a lot more relatable and bring me back down to earth again well i think that's i think if you what there's a great thing it's like if you haven't cringed at yourself over what you did like five years ago then you haven't really grown as a poor enough that's true so i think it's a important as well. In terms of okay when when your clients come into to work with you and we we talked there about like at the photo shoe and you know how like you know people quickly realize that it's unsustainable what they want them. Obviously you work with your clients over over a long period of time to help them to kind of build habits and make it a lifestyle change that support them for the rest of their life. So how do you help to keep clients motivated past that kind of honeymoon fair?

phase of training where it's like the first couple of weeks like this is brilliant i love this why haven't i been doing this the whole time and then and then things start to kind of stagnate a little bit and it's a little bit more difficult to keep people yeah yeah look and that's what i say to them at start you're gonna you're feeling motivated it's great like that's a lovely feeling but you won't always feel like that that tends to fade after maybe week three four you know but that you don't have to feel that way to keep doing it and that's really important so my women are in a group or in a big WhatsApp group and that community of other women like it's so powerful it really honestly is so some of them have been there for two years with me you know and um whenever

anyone else joins they're so welcoming and they all actually help each other they make my life so much easier so we'll pop in each day and put in our food put in our steps if anyone's having any problems even outside of that like because it's a group of women they're nearly putting it in to the group and everyone's supporting each other and helping each other and although you start for the weight loss you're nearly staying for the community you know it's such a lovely feeling and we all motivate each other and then you know every week or two we'll do like maybe a little challenge like a steps challenge or this week we're looking at actually what we were talking about earlier doing something for yourself so give me two things that you're going to

going to do for yourself this week that's not involving your family that's not involving anyone else and we'll pop that in the group and we'll say oh i went out i got my nails done or whatever it might be and we're keeping everyone updated we do group calls to set our goals for the month they're not like totally essential but anyone who wants to come on them is welcome and we'll also set goals in the group you know on a weekly basis or every few weeks and say look i'm going to do this this week and you're you're holding yourself accountable to the rest of the girls in the group as well. So it definitely keeps everyone engaged. And I have found that when people might leave, you know, for a few weeks, because they've got something going on, and then they'll always come back because they just miss

the girls so much. I think that's two things you said there, like accountability and community. I think they're essential for keeping people engaged to these behaviours long term. I think the research even shows that as well. It's like, and like I know we're, very biased because like are we we we create communities to help people to engage in these behaviours but that's obviously because it works like it yes there's proof that it works so if if you're struggling to if you're struggling to to you know do any sort of a a health and fitness routine and you're doing it by yourself like having other people there to support and to keep you accountable like I think it's a no-brainer yeah it's massive like I

I have previously worked with people on a one-to-one basis. And it's not as much fun, first of all. But secondly, like, it kind of, it wears off, you know. Whereas if you have all these other women, all these other personalities, all this big support system, like, I cannot underestimate how massive of that is. Like, it's really, really important. I think anyone who has a one-to-one coaching business, they do try to even integrate some sort of community aspect to it,

because it is just, it's too valuable. not to do because people as much as like all right you'll learn off your coach and you'll get a lot of information off your coach you get you you you learn just as much off you know working beside people who were in similar situations to you or maybe just one or two steps ahead or also you get to if someone new comes in and you solve the problem that they're currently going through being able to to explain that to them like that reinforces what you've already learned as well that's so important as well it's huge and like all these women going through big life events

you know, with people in the group who've gone through cancer, who've gone through cardiac arrest, who've gone through loss of spouses, of parents, you know, people getting married, people. You know, it's just incredible that everyone's there to support. And even like when my nephew died, they were a huge support to me, huge. And, you know, they kept going even when I couldn't.

And that was, that was, you know, that was huge to me. It really, really was. that they were, you know, they picked up nearly my job for me for, you know, a week or two and I was just completely lost. Like they're, they're amazing, an amazing bunch of women I couldn't ask for better. We talked on Saturday as well about a program happening. You gave a really good answer to that even in terms of like you're not changing up your own training. Is that a mistake you see people make? Yeah, constantly like people want some new shiny thing to do.

like and again I think a lot of it comes down to social media and they're seeing influencers putting up these exercises that okay I think they're they're just putting them up there for engagement because that's they're not the exercises that this is not some sort of routine that got you the body that that you have you know and I think it's it's quite unfair that they're just doing it for engagement and like what I really want people to do is stick with something for as long as they can to make improvements because you can make improvements on a program for a very long time, you know, and if you focus on your performance and if you focus on your results in that way, the body just comes along with it, you know?

What do you think are some of the fundamentals of like a good program or a good gym workout that people could take away from this podcast? Like I think you don't have to be there five, six days a week doing different push, pull, leg splits. I think if you do three full body, you know, or even if you can't get there twice one week, you're still doing one good full body session a week, you know. If you're starting from nothing, one full body session a week will make, you know, that's a hundred percent improvement. It will make such a big difference.

I think that is the sweet spot really for consistency for most people. And if you're doing three full body days or even two full body days, you're hitting your muscle groups multiple times a week and you'll see a difference. Like I used to train maybe six days a week and my body's in better shape now doing three full body days than it was back then, you know, doing all these different complicated splits that I didn't need to be doing. Do you think that comes back to what we spoke about earlier whereas like more isn't always better and, you know, focusing on recovery as well is really important?

Exactly. And like as well as not overreaching yourself because I do know like a lot of people when they start with me and they have before we have our consultation they've all these big plans i'm going to work out five days a week i'm going to cut out this i'm going to do that and i just say hold on hang on how many days you're working out at the moment none okay and you're going to do five you know how long is that going to last like do one when you're consistent with that one day you can add another one in then do you know what i mean don't completely overhaul your life and i think you said this, I think I heard you saying this maybe on a podcast last week, that like the bigger you are

or the more unfit you are, the less you have to actually do to get some results. Yeah, like, that's an amazing thing. The more, what did I say? I think it was like the more you, the, the, the more you have to change, uh, or, or the, if, if you have a lot to change or, or, or you know, you, you, you're in need of making, um, or, you know, you, you're, you're in need of making, change you only need to make actually small change because yeah like like let's say you're 30 kilos overweight um you know you going out walking every day like you said it's like you actually probably don't even need to go to the gym yeah like you just go you just going from being on the couch to walk and every single day at 20 minutes a day 10 minutes a day like the impact that's going to make

is is massive yeah it's only when you're at a really lean level of body fat it's like you're going to have to sacrifice more and more and more and then you have to ask yourself, is it even worth it? Actually, that's a good question to ask yourself or to ask you as well. Like, do you find that you have clients that you've worked with in the past where it's like, okay, so obviously you'll have a lot of clients who'll come work, come in looking for weight loss from you or looking for fat loss. And do you ever find that it's a case where, you know, this person probably doesn't need

to lose any more weight or probably doesn't need to lose as much body fat as they think. And they're probably good the way they are. and but it's it's having that conversation can be quite difficult because it's like well they're obviously not happy so they need to make a change but like it might not be weight loss that is the thing that's going to make them happy even though they think it will I know um that like that like what you said at the start about the scales it's it's a conversation that you kind of have to have a number of times in a number of different ways for it to land like you know and just about questioning well because people just move the goalposts on themselves all the time I do it myself I'm like oh

you know probably happier if I lose another two kilos hang on now like what do you need to give up to keep pushing and pushing and pushing at this like is it really what you want is it what's going to make you happy or should we just look at you know so a lot of the time I'll bring them up to maintenance for a little while and let's look at how we feel there and women are scared of that They're scared of not being in a calorie deficit. They're scared of the thoughts of not losing weight anymore, you know? So it's really about trying very gently with that. And when they do try it, they realize, oh, I have more energy.

I'm not putting on loads of weight, you know, I'm actually feeling good. I'm still getting all the compliments from people, you know. And I think just practicing at that slowly and gently can really help. Yeah, because I remember having a conversation with a client before and it was like, she came in for weight loss and I was like, okay, so why did you want to lose weight? I was because I want to feel healthier and I want to be happier. And I was like, okay, that's fine. And, you know, she lost a significant amount of weight and she was healthier and she was

definitely happier. And then she was like, okay, do you think we need to drop my calories even lower now because I haven't lost weight in a while? I said, well, why do you want to lose more weight? and like then we had the conversation well I wanted to be healthier and I wanted to be happier and I was like well do you feel healthier

and I'm like yeah are you happier and I'm like yeah like are you happy with you know your performance are you happy with you know your energy levels with your mood all these things that have come as a byproduct and she was like yeah I'm happy with all them things

well so why do we need to lose weight then you've achieved what you wanted to achieve in terms of that and she was like like I could see her having that battle in her brain being like yeah if i lose more weight then i'll be more healthier and i'll be more happy yeah when in reality actually you won't because now you're going to have to sacrifice more things that actually make you happy like you know going out for food with your partner or

you know of it like you have to train you have to spend more time in the gym and not with your kids or not with your friends and like you you you went on this weight loss pursuit so you could improve all the areas outside of your life but by you continuing to try to lose weight you're actually going to take away from them things now and like i've had that battle myself you know um before i had nita before i did my personal training course like i would have been getting lean and getting lean and getting really lean but to the point where you don't even see that in a mirror you don't realize how lean you've gotten like and it really took over like everything my the food i was obsessive about what I was going to eat, the amount of calories I had what I couldn't eat, like what was basically

on my band list, the guilt that would come along if you ate one cookie or one thing that I thought was not supposed to be eaten. And I was so, so lean and everyone was like, wow, you look fantastic. But in my head, I was not in a healthy place at all. Like I was possibly the sickest mentally that I've ever been. And it's an awful place to be, you know. Yeah, it takes, literally takes over your life because all your, you're, you're just preoccupied by food all the time because you've restricted so much food from your life. Yeah.

Freed to, like, if someone suggests going out somewhere or if my mom suggested coming out for dinner, I had this anxiety because I'm like, I can't eat what she's making because it's not my food, you know, and it's not, I'm not managing each little macro that goes into that, you It's a it's a it's probably the most difficult part of coaching it's trying to find that line between okay is this behavior of you know being in a calorie deficit or whatever or training is this improving your life and then yes it is improving your life but now we're taking it to the point where it's actually taken away from your life and and how do we pull back and how do we have that conversation because also I do think that I do think that for some people it's necessary that they actually go through that process to understand that it isn't. going to make them happy. Like sometimes you have to get really, really lead to be like, okay, that wasn't it.

You know, I deal with that wasn't it. And obviously that can go to the extreme end of it where it becomes disorderly and even eating disorders. And obviously that's not good as well. And like that needs to be addressed. But I think like you how many personal trainers do you hear that said they, you know, they got a six pack just to realize that it wasn't worth it? Yeah.

Yeah. No, absolutely like. But I do find that people. are so in the, you know, black and white thinking. I'm sure you see that a lot yourself. Like even clients who've started recently with me worrying about, oh, you know, I don't want to go on a night out now. And I'm like, no, sorry, remember that you have to,

what you're doing now, you have to be able to kind of do for the rest of your life. You can't just do this for six weeks, eight weeks, and then go back to the way you were before because then you will go back to the way you were before, you know. You're going to have night. so you're going to have weekends away, you're going to have holidays, and it's okay to have them, you know, and enjoy them. Like life is too short to restrict those things out of your life.

Don't worry about them. You know, they literally only affect the scales for a short amount of time, and then things come back to normal, you know. Yeah, you don't learn, you don't learn anything by just staying at home, being afraid to consume excess calories. Like, and I think that's when we talk about kind of the photo shoe trend that's come up like that's essentially trainers just putting clients on starvation to take a photo of them to then share that on their businesses. But I don't think you've, you haven't, you haven't coached someone how to live their life and to be able to pursue health and fitness and stay at a healthy body weight while also having a life and enjoying the, the things that they want to enjoy, which is like the whole

the whole point of coaching I think is to help improve people's lives. Yeah. And that's why like when I put up pictures of my clients, I try and say, look, this lady has, you know, she's lost whatever it was 18, 20 kilos, but she still had her take away with her kids every single Friday night. She didn't avoid nights out. She didn't give up chocolate. She didn't, you know. And I think it's really important to say all of that that like you don't have to completely restrict your life. You don't have to cut anything out of your life. You just have to take things in moderation, you know. And people find that really. difficult, I think, to concept. You talked about a full body training there, and I would completely agree. I think it's probably the best modality in terms of getting people started as well,

because it is so flexible, whether it's you're doing one, two, three sessions, a week, four sessions, a week even. Do you have any kind of, like, structure that helps people in terms of, okay, well, like, I'm listening into this podcast, what the fuck is a full body workout, Frankie?

Like, do you have any advice in terms of structure and that for people? Well, they can get on to me. I'll give them a full body. So like, okay, well, you're thinking full body. You want to do your glutes. You want to do your chest, your back, your shoulders, your abs. You know, just looking at it in that way,

picking one exercise for each thing, starting off with what you, like for me anyway, I love to focus on glutes. So starting off with what's more important to you. Some people might prefer to work on their back put that as their top exercise. you know if you want to work on your glutes more put that as your first exercise whatever you want to put the most focus on put it at the top of your workout and then obviously the lower priorities down towards the bottom just structuring it that way you know um maybe looking at three or four sets of the first two exercises three sets of the second two and then two more at the bottom maybe two sets if you've got time for those ones yeah and uh i think it's important to note there for people listening as well because i think the I think a mistake that a lot of people make when they first start on the gym is doing like five exercises for the one body part and like wasting so much time in the gym and they're like spending two hours in the gym. And it's like you've done fucking 12 exercises. Yeah.

Yeah. So like even picking. So a lot of time like I'll say to the girls, if you don't have time to do because generally I'll give them six exercises, five or six exercises. If you don't have time to do all them, do the top two. Do you know what I mean? if you've only got 20, 20, 5 minutes or whatever to get to the gym, I'd rather you go and do spend 20 minutes on the first two exercises, which are the most important that will get to the most bang for your book,

and leave the rest, you know, but you've still kept up that habit of going to the gym, even if you necessarily didn't have time, and I think that just helps with the consistency. But even Google and some full body workouts would probably be helpful, because I've seen, like I've spoke to a girl the other day when I was getting my nails done, and she was telling me that she was only going to the gym three days a week,

but one of her exercises that her coach gave her was bicep curl, and then she had alternating bicep curls. She was doing a lot of the same exercises. It makes sense. No sense. You know, it just didn't really, a lot of things she was telling me, it didn't make sense necessarily for the goals that she had, you know. So making sure that if you are working with a coach that you're communicating, well, like this is what I might like to focus on, you know,

if you had something in mind. So there's more relevant to you. Looking back at your own kind of gym journey, is there any mistakes that you made early on that you could share with the listeners that might help? Obviously, we spoke about full body workouts, being efficient. Obviously, we spoke about how more isn't always better. You don't actually need to spend six days a week in the gym to see results. And sometimes by pulling back, you actually get better results by doing maybe three or four sessions and prioritising recovery. Is there any other kind of mistakes that you made early on in the gym that might help?

Yeah, so like two major things. First one be not like eating properly to fuel my sessions. So, you know, worrying about maybe not eating carbs or, you know, just not even eating enough calories that what was, what was I actually doing? Like, I wasn't going to get anywhere. I wasn't going to get the results that I wanted by not doing that. And then on the other side of things, maybe where I was very particular about tracking my food, but I was going into the gym and I wasn't tracking my exercises.

I wasn't remembering what did I do last week for this weight? What did I? You know, what did I lift for this, that or the other? So I think if you are results focused and you are looking to get results, track your food, but track your workout as well. Bring your notepad and pen image. I'm old skills. I see people doing it on their phone.

But like I have my notepad and my pen and I write down everything. And people have come up to me and asked, why are you writing down what you're doing? Like, I'm never going to remember every single thing. And then at least if I'm looking back at the exercise from the week before, I can see what progression I can make. Okay, I can add on the rep here or I can add on, you know, the way here. And I think looking after both sides of that house, if you want to, get results, track, track. Yeah, I continue and I continue to say to the school fitness members when they're in class because they're on an app when they're in doing their training sessions. I'm like, log that set in, log that set in, log that set in.

And they're like, I'll do it later. when I go home. I was like, you won't do it later when you go home, you forget. And like what gets measured gets improved, right? Exactly. That was something that, like, when I started working in Urban Fitness,

I got them to do because, you know, they're coming in each week and they weren't necessarily progressing because, you know, who can remember what exactly they did. And I don't think, like a lot of people don't like to be on their phones when they're working out. And that's absolutely fine. That's what I'm like as well. So bring your notepad and pay.

then each weekend and ride it down that way, you know. I always say, when I see something in the gym with a notepad and pen, I say, that person's come to work. Do you have a moment in your training journey where, we've talked about this a little bit, but like you've started to focus on, your focus shift from aesthetics to performance. Yeah, like a couple of times.

Like, I'd have to say when my sister was sick, that was like a light bulb. moment for me to be like why everything is not about how you look, how your body looks in particular, you know, and that really kind of changed that for me. But it's also easy to fall back into old habits, you know, like the mind keeps travelling back down certain ways. So when you're not, you know, at your best mentally and stuff, you can find yourself, well, I find myself falling back down that rabbit hole of, oh, well, if I change, if I focus on what's here on the outside, that'll fix me, but it doesn't.

You know what I mean? The real work is obviously on the inside. But yeah, it can definitely, it can definitely like bring you back down that road of looking at, oh, what do I look like again? But I've found that working with a coach has helped me to focus on my performance because he's expecting a certain level of performance each week. And so it forces me to look at that side of thing. rather than, well, what does my body look like, you know?

Makes sense. Makes sense. I think that's, yeah, and that's a, I think that's also a big issue when you have clients come in to work with you and ask you, or like, I want to lose weight. And, you know, if you, if you dive into that a little bit deeper, it's like, why do you want to lose weight? And it's like, oh, I want to be accepted by other people. And I think, you know, that can be a very difficult thing to try and work around.

And it's like, you know, trying to do this. for yourself and not for other people. Like, that's, it's a lot easier said than done. Yeah. And I have also found, like,

with regards to fix and what's on the outside, a lot of clients, a lot of people, when they start working with me and, you know, I'm having a conversation, we're having a chat.

They've lost someone recently. And, like, I know what that feels like to think, well, if I just work on this side, it will fix what's going on in my brain, all the griefs, I'm dealing with, you know, and it's, I suppose

it's trying to explain to them that, okay, this will, like, it's going to help you to do something for yourself. It's going to, you know, but it's not going to fix the grief. Like, nothing's going to take that away, you know, getting out for walks,

eating healthily, getting enough sleep. Okay, they do help a little bit, you know what I mean, because they do automatically help with your mental health, but, like, it's not going to take it away. Do you find that people will get in fitness to suppress that feeling rather than to actually help themselves. Yeah.

Initially, I think that's, you know, that seems to be the thinking that I'll fix that. And if I, you know, if I can change how I look, I'll automatically feel better. You know, that's kind of the initial thinking. I do think that some of the actions that you need to do to get in shape, like getting to the gym, like that, it does move that kind of energy. out of your body and I found like I've honestly found that so helpful like literally this is what would have got me out of bed after my sister passed away and what got me back to you know eat normally and you know being able to move myself like after my nephew passed away as well like it's just

honestly um all that energy that's stored up in your body it is a healthier way to release it because oftentimes when you're grieving, that can just shoot out in anger, you know. So I don't necessarily think that it, it suppresses it, but it maybe moves that energy in a healthier way,

even getting out for a walk or getting outside in nature for a little bit. It just releases some of that or gives it a healthier outlet maybe. Yeah, like everything can be a coping mechanism, right? But, like, I mean, it's probably, like, being obsessed with the gym is probably a healthier coping mechanism

than being, you know, down in the pub or whatever else you, you can find. But I think, yeah, like you said, extremes, extremes for anything isn't going to be healthy. So if you're using the gym, and I've seen this as well, I've seen this even like with people who have gone through a breakup and stuff like that, where like they're in the gym every single day for like two hours a day and it's like they're just looking for a distraction from the pain rather than dealing with. Yeah, rather than. rather than dealing with that. And it's like, you don't want to deter someone from, you know, exercises or go to the gym because of all the,

all the positive benefits from that. But then also there's like, your body isn't going to fix everything. You can fix a lot, but it's not going to fix probably everything. Yeah. Like a lot of time people need therapy along with, you know,

going to the gym and looking after themselves themselves. And I think, like, having a coach or someone to be able to say that to you look, you could probably do with talking to someone. And a lot of my clients do, you know, and I think it's really important to encourage that side of things as well because you can have the healthiest body in the world. But if your mind is not healthy, what have you got really? You know, you've got nothing. Yeah, 100%. Do you have any advice for people dealing with grief as someone who's gone through it? Yeah, like it's really difficult, I suppose, and everyone's individual and, you know, but I do think talking to people who have gone through it because, you know, maybe your partner or. or your best friend or whatever,

hasn't been through that. And not in a bad way, but they don't have a clue what that is like. It's really a horrible club to be in in some ways. But if you speak to someone who has gone through it, they'll just be able to help you see that, like, at the start, it's all encompassing. And, you know, it completely takes over your life.

And that it will never, ever, ever go away. But it just becomes that it's not ever, everything, you know what I mean? You sort of build your life around it. You carry it with you and you build your life around it. And I think speaking to people who are maybe a little bit further down the line can help give you a little bit of hope back. You know, that, okay, things will never go back to the way they were, but it doesn't have to be the end of my life, you know, that everything won't always be, you know, you'll have happy moments. There will be sadness associated with all your happy moments, but everything won't be always fully, fully sad, you know.

Did you find it harder or easier to continue talking about your sister after she passed? Because I know, like, people go down, like, different ways of dealing with it, where some people, when, like, someone passes away, they, they don't really talk about it that much. And then some people, they're happy toby's kind of have conversations about that person. Yeah, like, I definitely find it better to talk about. Sheney, like I want to talk to everyone about her and she knew so many people and to be honest like that was one of the main reasons I took the job down in urban fitness because she

had worked in a hairdressers around the corner so a lot of my clients ended up being people who were her clients as a hairdresser and like I absolutely loved that connection with her and I'm still friends with all of her friends and my family would you know we talk about her all the time like and always celebrate her birthday, celebrate everything really that we can. It helps for me to keep her closer, you know. So I can understand why people sometimes might think you don't want to talk about them

in case you get upset or in case you upset anybody, but you're upset anyway, I think. Yeah, yeah. You know, and it definitely helps for me anyway to talk. Yeah, I know from myself anyway between me and my brother, like my brother never ever talks about my mum. am and I like I always like I when someone says that like I'm happy to have a conversation and it doesn't even make me feel upset like I just I just like to do it I think it genuinely helps and I think even like right the act of writing and stuff like that has really helped me as well to grieve and yeah I think it I think it's a nice thing to even talk about them like they're still here I think I think it helps I read a quote somewhere about like alchemizing it is that the word yeah yeah you take this awful playing but you can turn it into something wonderful you know and i think that's such a tribute to them

to be able to take their life you know and and all the things that they meant to you and be able to use it in a powerful way and i tried to use like that connection with my sister and being healthy to help other women you know and to connect with people and i think that's really really important and it's a lovely legacy to have and i can see that you're the same with your mom you know that you know you know what you've been through helps other people like and that's just that's just huge yeah I think that's a really important point

it's like the best way to the thing that you're struggling with if you can teach or help someone else who's struggling with it it almost heals you as well yeah yeah exactly I've two more questions for you Frankie and then I'll let you go so

where do you think the fitness industry is as a whole right now like is there parts of it that you like part of it that you don't like what's your opinion on the fitness industry as a whole? Like obviously it's a confusing place for people with everything that's going on in social media and you know like we were saying about the photo shoots

and everything just being about aesthetics but I do think I am quite hopeful because I've seen like a lot more coaches with your point of view, you know, that you're there to help people and actually improve things and I do see a lot more coaches posting like realistic helpful tips and stuff like that.

It's not all about your body image. It's not all about being the tiniest version of yourself. You know, you see yourself and Kelly and Emma Dowling. And a lot more people like that come in up in the fitness industry where you're actually there to help people, you know, give them practical, realistic advice. And I actually think that's just such a good place to be. You know, I think maybe people need to possibly look through their social media,

feed and delete people who aren't making them feel, you know, or who are making them feel triggered or making them feel shit or making them, you know, unhappy in themselves and follow more people who are giving out proper practical advice. Yeah, so I'm quite hopeful about it. That's the thing as well. It's like it depends on the echo chamber that you're in, isn't it? Like for me, if someone asks me about the fitness industry,

in my head is like, well, I know thousands of great coaches. I think they're all brilliant. Like I know so many great coaches. But then like someone who isn't as like in the crux of the fitness industry as I am, like someone could be, you know, listening to the most horrendous, toxic. Yeah. And like I'm not on TikTok or anything. So I couldn't, I can't say for that.

You know what I mean? I've heard a lot of bad things about skinny talk and like I fear for young girls, you know. But in saying that in the gym where I train, there is some young. girls in there and they're doing pull-ups, they're in, doing huge bench press. They're like really they're working very, very hard and getting very, very strong. And I think that's so good to see. And like some of the guys, the coaches that work there have said to me, like, these people aren't going out drinking anymore. They're going out having a sauna on a Saturday night and they're in training early on Sunday morning. And like, and in a lot of ways, like that's a good thing to see

as well, you know, more of a health focus trend. Yeah. There's a big difference between like, the 80s and the 90s where it was like drink culture was at an all time high like diet culture was at an all time high and then if you and I always say this about like people like kids on TikTok now it's like they're all looking to lift heavy be strong like focus on wellness like it's a very different dynamic to

20 30 years ago yeah it's nice but it is good to see that the kids in the gym like I know people give out with them but I love to see them there I think it's fantastic. And then the last question I have for you. So any advice for like new personal trainers who are just getting into the industry from your experience? What, where do you think they should start?

I suppose just looking at like, okay, you probably love the gym. You love lifting weights. But maybe thinking about things from a client or a potential client's point of view rather than your point of view, you know. So looking at what are their problems? What do they feel like? What, you know, what are their major restrictions that they're, got going on and and answering those problems you know how can you help them with those yeah that makes

i always like that saying it's like uh um being a good personal trainer isn't about being into fitness it's about being into people yes yeah i think if you're if you're focusing on the client rather than what you enjoy because a lot of people think that oh well i'm good at the gym i go to the gym all the time that it makes sense for me to become a personal trainer yeah yeah i think like if as long as you want to help other people, not yourself. Or you think that's probably the main thing. You'll be good at it then, you know. Where can people go if they want to keep up to date with what you're doing,

your work, if they want to inquire about online coaching, where can they find you? So I'm on Instagram, Fit with Frankie. Fit with Frankie. We will leave it in the show notes. Frankie, thank you very much for today. Thank you so much, Carl.