The Uneducated PT Podcast - Jak Lawrence What The Feck Is S&C Anyway?

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

In this episode we talk to bray emmets S&C Coach Jak lawrence about team sports making it in the industry and what he's learned on his way.

Welcome to the uneducated VT podcast with me, your host, Carlo Rourke. In this episode, we speak to Jack Lawrence, who is a strength and conditioning coach, so expect to learn the ins and outs of working on a team setup, as well as the mistakes that young athletes make on their way to the top. Remember, the best way to support the podcast is to share it on social media and make sure you follow, subscribe and all that stuff. But now, Mr Jack Lawrence. Yeah, so, I don't know, it kind of all falls back.

let's say to last year, the last couple of years, when I was in the industry of sport. And I may have fell into a bit of a hole where, like, you're kind of in the morning, you're coaching, and then in the evening I'm coaching teams. And the last thing I wanted to do was kind of go back into the gym and train. So where I live is, like, I'm pretty much got access to, like, Sugarloaf, I've got access to Bray Head, I've got access to kill ruddery.

So any time, like, stuck for time for training, I'll just go for a run. So I used to do that five-kilometer loop around the Southern Corolla. hate it I could never do it so you start off on the top of cross shoreline go around past the Wilton or the Ramada Hotel that used to be and then come back up to the bog hall and then you come up that way back past Springfield Cemetery and then you're technically around five-kilometer loop so that was like my 5k loop but I could just never get the moja I was like I fucking hated it I never

wanted to you know look at pace and then all of a sudden I'm like you know what I'm just gonna go go through one day and I went yeah so so where I live is I can just go up there at the back of there woodies there's a private lane. I don't know if I should be going up with private lane, but I go private lane and says do not access and I access through the gates and then it just brings you into

Kilruddery like, and if they see this I'm a member. I'm a pain member. So all of a sudden I'm doing these loop but it's off, it's on the trail of Irish for this family. So like it's up there so I started to run and like fucking hell and I'm going up here and I get up to the top

of... Yeah, yeah. Anyway, long story short, I was doing it and I was like all of a sudden I'm feeling fucking great here like you know I mean I don't have to worry about anything not as worry about pace is I'm just worried about getting from A to B you know I'm feeling great I'm up in in nature I'm looking around whether it's like pissing rain sunny or whatever it is it was grand like I didn't care about times I just I knew that I accumulated the volume as in distance and then by the time I finished it was great I was like surely there has to be something here that

you can kind of do along with that and then down and obviously the gym and there's a couple of lads that came in as runners. Now these boys are like ultra fucking marathon runners like they're doing over like 50K and stuff like that and they start yeah. Now in all for instance they weren't they weren't they were like they were all right boys but same thing they're like you know Jackie

you can do these trail races trail run so like all right cool so I just kept it up and that was it because every time I was doing them just felt some form of like a purpose I suppose like you just you yourself now it's quite very contradicting because when I weren't the vest that I had my phone like it obviously is not you and yourself because you're there

baiting into the phone but like there's times where I was like you know Jack forget the vest forget the phone bring your key or leave whatever the fuck for the house then all of a sudden your way like it's just you're up there your own thoughts I plan my best kind of train coaching life scenarios when I'm up there because I'm there's nothing else to worry about and yeah and here I am kind of one race deep already caught the little bug that was off the back of some very good social media marketing by your man Damien from Wexford and then yeah I have just other plans then going forward for ready yeah obviously when I seen that you were doing the trail run I was like oh fair fight you tried something new but now that I've seen that you it's that you're you're going for

triathlon next and then you're also going for I'm going to go for another I want to I set three goals I want to do triathlon I'm going to do the eco trail um 19 kilometer so that will be additional six to what I did previous there a month back from the race now if I do all right I maybe could push further I don't think I will I probably just stick to 19 just grin and bears and I said I'd love to cover either a half marathon or a marathon by the end of year the way things gone I'll probably do a half marathon I'm not gonna jump straight into a full marathon like I'm just yeah I'm just like there's no point like I'm not versed with road running I don't have technique like

I'm I don't know anything really about pacing and probably for the individual I am, I probably need to think about pacing a bit. Do you think that your competitive nature makes it a little bit harder to focus on pace? I have such a toxic trait, yeah, man. It's like when I was doing that, fourth mountain was the race that I did, the 13 kilometre race there in Wexford in Barringtown. And my partner at the time was like,

or not at the time, currently still. Sorry. Yeah, sorry, sorry. Yeah, the Fort Mountain, race you saying Jack like get up to the top there I'm like no because if I'm up at the top like I'm going to look at someone I'm saying I'm going to fucking I'm going to go with you knowing that I can't because I did on it I did on an eight day turnaround do I mean I've only been doing the runs as a recreational thing like just for myself it wasn't really like oh I'm a trail runner just like this is what I like to do I love doing this in the long run could I see myself doing more yes but this one came out a perfect time your man on social media gave me the follow at the right time the toxic trait known that I was up off that weekend. I was like, I'm fucking, I'm just going to do it. And so I did it, but I hung at the back. I hung at the back. I did the trail running, like elevation was mad in four minutes. Like if it's ever something to go for a walk, it's base around a quarry. And it was beautiful

on the day. But at the same time, I just knew that when I'm there, like my toxic trait competitiveness, I'm like, no, Jack. Just a bit of humble pie, sit back, enjoy the thing. But now the toxic trait comes out because I'm like, I'm, I know. I'm not. I know. need to do more, I need to do more. And that's where it rolls in then to the triathlon. Because I originally applied for an application, because I'm going to look stupid here. So I'm going to say it and clear the water here, if this was there.

I applied for the application for the King of Greystones. And on the application, it just gives you like why you want to do it, why not you don't want to do with any, like, and then at the end, it's like any problems that you may face. And I just highlighted, like, my current job is all based around shift work. So, like, I go morning and evenings. I was like if there's any reason why I can't be part of the King of Greystone's team, that might be it because of my schedule.

So comes back four days later, email, you've been a successful candidate. Congratulations, part of the King of Graceone's team says in 23. It's like, fucking deadly. Here's the first triathlon now that I'm going to tick off the box. It's going to come around July. It's 10 weeks of train or whatever it is. I'm going to get it done. What is the distance for each part of that?

So the one, the main. start off is a sprint triathlon. So sprint triathlon is 750 swim, 20K bike, and a 5-comber run. Now with that, with the King of Grace Zone for Gavin Gleon, that is like a charity event and that is just a sprint triathlon only. So that is the only distance.

So I was thinking, all right, cool, I'll do that. But I didn't realize, and like, you know, in hindsight now, fair plaything is what they're looking for, but it was a full schedule. It was like dates, times, I'm like, I was like, what's going on here? So I emailed just to make sure twice, two days apart, like, am I good to rock with this?

I stayed on my application thinking like it was all right. And Eleanor Bertie told me that someone had to put a word in for me as well. At the same time, because they're all about the social media thing, like, will you post your journey? And you know me, when I latch on to something, I'll post away like. So a big dopey hole like I am, thought I'd make a bit of an Instagram post about us,

put up a post on my thing saying like, great and by your mind I already made 250 euros for charity already off the back of this before I even did it and then they come back to me saying no sorry you can't participate because you're not going to be there for the train like so for something that's all for charity and stuff like that for a great cause I was bummed like because I knew I was going to be able to try and push for that but listen for what they're doing is a great job because they're taking 10 20 applicants and they're bringing through their professional coaches like because I think it was a team of six between nutritionists therapists

S and C yeah so like in hindsight I was like okay fair enough and I was raging I was driving on I was driving

on Dulus at the time when I got my email having my break and when I read the email saying like oh Jack that's I thought I was going to say like

oh Jack yeah no it's not gonna happen I fucking oh Carl man I was like nah this is because I hyped it up as a tick as I am

I posted about us and like I was like no that has to go now so I was like bull and I was fuming and when I latch on to something I have to fucking I have to do it so I was on the phone to someone else that does triathlons and Connor Costello that used to own two chaps

he's all about triathlete himself like so I was on the phone to him I was like what's the fucking stories like get on to triathlon Ireland same with Mick Burton they're like their registered like websites they'll have all the registered to triathlons so long story short try a thigh is coming up on the third of June and this day forward is 34 days out so I'm like a full 10 week to whatever that is like near enough

I don't know around what a month I'm training it's not not no it's not and before like to the whole coaching side of us like if that was for me to a client that would be a no-go but because just the

individual I am. I'm like, I have to. So the only good thing about... Yeah, exactly. And the only good thing about the triathie is that they've actually got four, five categories. They've actually got like a beginners one where it's a 250 swim, a 20K bike and a four-kilber run. Is that what you're doing? No. I'm going to do a, I'm going to try and do the sprint. I've got the sprint run then which is 750. So it's the same. 750 20K and then the five. And then the actual Olympic triathlon is double that. So 1.5 km swim, 40k bike in a 10k room. And then you're talking about the big voice.

It's like double, like double, double. So that's on the 3rd of June. Spaces are still available for us. So I'm not going to kind of just pay for it, book us. I'll do the train and see how I get on. And then coming to the last one, I'll see how it goes. This isn't your real area of expertise or background and experience in terms of time. Tell us a little bit about that.

Like, what is your background in terms of the training? Right, so originally, rugby's my main one. So throughout the whole adolescence, whatever it is, going through a club, I played for Delisal up in Parmastown. Just for kind of, it was easy. The mother used to work up there in the bar, whatever like that. And I used to go up then on Sundays. So I trained with Delisal.

And then I shortly then trained to Greystones then and went into Prez. So rugby was like my footfall into training Like rugby was always Like as a kid I'm going to be professional rugby player I'm going to do this I'm going to go through the school system Get into it in the whole lot And so in there

Love the gym And when I started in In technically second year So when Shoreline originally opened We went over Me and a couple of lads from Prez I went over and we gave the wrong date of births When we're in second year

Sorry for Shoreline if anyone watches this we get the wrong date of birth and so we actually got in a year ahead so when we were in second year at the time yeah but like bear in mind and it'd be the same for any business back then they had no like systems in place no way to check they just fucking yeah okay no problem though

so went over we had a we had a sheet signed by press or something like that from the school and your parent's signature whatever was so we were in there so that was the introduction but the introduction then fall into the gym was when we had the S&C with Olin Savage Mr Savage I still call him and I'm around 10 years out of school or something like that or and Mr. Savage So rugby and that S&C path were always the same for me

And then I just copped Oh they do and I loved this So it was like I love that style training Like I'm not going to kind of Diss the split of like upper and lower Or like push pull and chest and stuff Because I did that being there That was my introduction in the training

But when I got into the gym with Olin It was completely different So and it started to change because in third year I caught copped my first injury I got full meniscus clean out my right knee. So that was like, holy fuck, that rattled me a bit. And then I had an ACL scare then in my left knee then the following season to come back.

So I rehab my right, came back, compromise, and then we had a bit of a scare with my left. So I'd go for another keyhole surgery in fourth year then. And then I was like, training has to change, like, has to be a bit smart. And then you start to kind of figure out, like, you dwindle away, you're not in the school system for rugby, you haven't got a sniff at Lenster.

Because I personally think at that time, if you're trying to push for any school or if you're any moderately good you'll have some form of recognition. So I had trials from their 16 but they never materialised. Like it was tried, I'll never forget the actual day. Mr. Conroy, Kev Conroy

driving us to Terrineur and it was me, Darrow Henderson and I think was Connor Pearce. We went in and it was like a summer camp but it's for Lentzer like you. So you're doing trials of just all these kids that are sent

and I was like whatever fucking size I was back then as a number nine just wasn't a stature of a nine and yeah just shite I'm actually throwing this Yeah yeah just throwing this

So anyway That was kind of the introduction But the S&C for that So it was always just being the The S&C style of Of train That's kind of my My background into that then

Well that yeah So this is how you decided then That you know I'm going to You know This is a career path I can kind of go down Yeah.

All right, if I'm not going to make at this top top level, no. I'm going to be able to help other people do it because of what I learned. Because at that time then, who was or still is my mentor to this day, there's probably around three lads

to this given day that I classify as my mentors. One, he doesn't really know it, but I always go back to him would be Mr. Savage, Olin Savage, because he was pretty much the first person that introduced me into weight training. And I've always gone back to him for any kind of,

that I have or especially when I worked with Prez at the time and then they always kind of used to bring like S&C coached in that were let's say well versed and a lot better in certain areas in the schools and then they would coach so for instance we had Sammy Dowling and Sammy is well versed in let's say the athletic side of fields so like Sprint mechanics and stuff like that and also Olympic lifting so Olin brought him in at the time to teach us those movements so Olympic lifts or variations and then obviously some sprint tech and then I kind of looked at Sammy back then thinking like oh fuck well he works for Lensster he works for Dublin GA I'm like that's

what I want to do that's what I want to do like I want to do I want to do I want to work in the professional setup so I want to work through there and then as we start to materialize just my training started to kind of revolve around that type of stuff it was never like your I said those splits it was kind of like trying to figure out what way I could do it it and... You've opened up a new, a whole new book to train them. Yeah, yeah. And then it came to be a lot more

a lot more real knowing that when I was in school, I wasn't academic. So, I knew that when I was doing my leaving search, I wasn't like, oh, how many points I'm going to get? I'm like, I'm going to pass my leave and cert. So my mum's like, my mum's like, Jackie, you got a fucking, you got a study? I was like, no. Like, not like, no, I'm not. Like, I used to go and say, yeah, I am,

and me and the lads would, bounce off and we go a half day or something or go to gym but I just it was like attend school be present rugby yeah you had your obsession I just it just never I just I knew like okay right I have to get the leaving sir now obviously I wanted to for fuck's sake so when we came about us we got the leaving surf but I knew I wasn't going to be that that person that goes into college to do like S&C sports signs off the back I was like what's going to be my my back door here and Biffy was the back door so then obviously

like you know you'd have individuals that you would kind of look at or look to that you look for advice and I started to figure out okay well Sammy has an authentic kind of background in relation to education so I think he went to Sally Noggin and off the back of Salty Noggin you got placement of Lensster and off the back of

placement of Lensster he got offered a full-time job and that's without a degree I was like holy shit I was like yeah do you know what I mean so I was like well there's a way there then obviously he spent I think 8 to 9 or maybe more years with Lenster he was on the management team as the lead S&C coach for when Dublin won the first All-Ireland in a few years in 2011

and then won on the bounce then for three back to back so like fucking hell like that's what like I want to do so I'm definitely going to latch on to him as a mentor and then from there the rest is kind of the rest is kind of history like that's where it's kind of led me into the different paths of coaching and tell me then about that different paths so obviously climb with Trez Rugby yeah prime with Ray Emmett

and loads of different kind of one to one athletes yeah yeah yeah a little bit about then so when I off the back of that then

I went into Biffie went into Biffy I got a phone call to say Jack you can play rugby in Spain for a year yeah so went to Madrid for well sorry went to Madrid for

what was supposed to be a year yeah went over and the plan and negotiation just fell through to pot like after the first month and a half like so I was going over it like it was grants like accommodation was paid for you pretty much had nothing really to worry about like but the plan was that you'd get paid when you taught English and then you'd get taught Spanish so I was teaching all this English to like the youths like under 10s under 11s and stuff like that but I was never getting taught Spanish and I was getting to the point where it's getting very frustrating because in training sessions.

Yeah, but like the, some sessions were getting so hyped that it would ruin the buzz where he'd be fucking shouting shit in Spanish and then stop and have to like broken English and explain to me. I'm not fucking having this now. Like it's getting really, really bad. So anyway, that sizzled out. Great experience moving away for the first time ever. It was actually 2016 because of the World Cup with Ireland lost in the quarterfinal against Australia.

I was watching that in a little shack over there in Madrid. back went into Biffie for the second year so I don't know whether we cross Pats and Biffie in first year or Biff second year so I was technically three years out of school then and I went back for the like personal training strength and condition it was called back then did that off the back of that applied for CEO got sports science in I T Carlo so four years out of school went back IT Carlo went down there did the year same thing gym fuck the study it just passed the continuous assessments each time like

and uh... but still something that you were actually had a passion for 100%. 100%. And came to us, failed physics, failed chemistry, repeated it,

failed it again by a percent. Try to ask the lecture like any chance you could fucking do me a solid there. No.

So I was like, I'm not. Okay, I'm done. I'm done now. I'm fucking, I'm four years out. I'm hungry to work. This is kind of knocking me back.

So to answer your question when I started to fall into it then, I actually fell into internship with APEC so APEC courses back then and that opened everything to me so that was it wasn't really based anywhere so it was a guy called Shane Cahill and Sammy they partnered off and at the time Shane was the head of S&C for Black Rock Rugby Club so Stradbrook so technically based there like but it was remote courses so any time they were doing the online stuff or every time you had to do your in-house

assessments, they'd have Stradbrook as their, let's say, Irish-based. They'd have some university up in Belfast for their, let's say, Northern Ireland-based, and then they'd have somewhere over in England for their UK-based clients. And then I think for Europe, if anyone's doing this, in Europe, they'd go over to Germany. So, and then on the flip side, we then did S&C for teams. So there's an educational, and then there's like actual practical. And that's when I fell into, like, it opened up. I became the assistant S&C then for long for a GEA for season, and that was great experience.

That was great experience working with, like... What would be involved in that for someone who wants to be an S&C coach and doesn't really know what is their day-to-day kind of... For the S&C? Well, like, just for the elephant in the room to travel, like. Because you've got to realise you're trying to chase something there. So, like, everything that you're looking at as a person, person yourself as individual you're looking to make moves for yourself that can probably do you good

in the long run so you're kind of have to weigh up like well am i willing to apply for these jobs like obviously back then in apex i wasn't willing to do anything i was on an intern so i couldn't say no but in hindsight now it's like well the travel do you have a family do you have a partner how far are you going to be away from how like i had to leave i used to be down there in longford for and i think half six or half seven training session. But around the M50 you'd have to be leaving maybe around three hours before that so you don't get bet on the M50. So you're leaving three hours beforehand non-paid at the time to go down, you're doing your session. And then the day-to-day side of it, like you go down, you've got to talk to the manager, the mentors, what the outcome, what the goal is for the week.

So are we in a friendly league championship? What players have to be managers? I'd have to go down with the GPS systems. I'll have to make sure that I have enough vests, lay them out, have the right number of the GPS to the right player. Make sure that I have my notes and my book written down that I know that when the session starts because when you give the GPS, obviously it tracks straight away but for the sports sciences that we had I have to make sure that okay well the session starts at 7.30

but the GPS switched on at 7. So disregard the half an error metrics that you're going to get beforehand because you're trying to make the life easier. But if a player pulled up or if a player was out injured didn't do the drills, I'd have to make sure, okay, well, player on GPS 30 did the warm-up from 7.30pm to, let's say, 7.45,

he'd tagged that as a warm-up. And then as the rest of the players went into, let's say, drills from 7.45, I'd have to say, to sport's ions, it's at 7.45 to, let's say, 8pm, that block of the GPS was 110-meter straight-line runs. And then he had tagged that. So it wasn't kind of like just hand players' GPS. GPS units and away you go. Like there's a lot of a bit more like because when you see it on TV and you see kind of like the GP analysis type of stuff, it's like, oh, it's grand just hand your player. Like maybe it's changed now. Like I mean, we had it back in 2017. There's 18. So obviously technology for the last five, six years has really improved, especially for a GPS sense. But like you're tagging, you're making sure players are fine. You're making sure the loading is correct. Then when it comes to you're making sure that your on-field practical sense is sound. So like you're trying to make sure that everything is short and concise, but it's understandable.

And then you come back and then you take obviously your units and you drive home and then you have to fucking at around half 11 or midnight, get your laptop out hook up around 30 GPS units on a table like this. And your kitchen with fucking cables coming out, lights flashing, making sure that sports science gets us to that the main essence of the time, Sammy was able to take that data, relay it back to the coach and say, well, here, listen, you're starting 15 or fresh. Your injured players are... Well, that's the kind of goal of it. isn't really good to make sure that, okay, these players, these are these times kind of overtrained

and that they're ready kind of, just a match fit. Yeah, 100%. Because you're trying to make sure that obviously you'd like to think that on a match week, you're trying to accumulate, I don't know how many. Like I would personally as a coach, Sammy at the time may have a different scenario, but I'm thinking maybe during a match week you're trying to accumulate in around 5 to, let's say seven kilometers of running on a match week. and then let's say you don't have a match

you just got two training sessions maybe you're kind of trying to double that maybe you're trying to make sure that okay in session one we're going to try and hit around five to seven then the next session on Thursday we try and match maybe the same or less and then that's when you kind of look at your two sessions

well am I going to make sure session one is a bit more of an aerobic or session two going to be more of your high intent let's say your short sprint efforts or your high speed running meters that you're looking for and then that's what he would lay back to them to the managers so on this like okay well the manager name at the time was pork

it's like okay right pork we've accumulated this this player seems to be matching his high speed running meters what he was hitting prior to the injury and then he would make the call like 50 and 30 minutes in the match or give it socks like because i think a lot of people when they think of a strengthening coach they think of having athletes in the gym off season getting strong whereas there's obviously a lot of the day-to-day tasks just involve managing managing training, managing performance. And that's what I thought.

Yeah. When I got the internship and I was with Longford, I was like, I tell you, I'm going to be in the gym. Yeah. No. No. Like, we'd have one, let's say, gym session. One.

And it could be before pitch and it wouldn't even, let's be, say, if it'd be like a primer session. Yeah. Now... Because you're in season, these have to be really low volume. And don't forget it. It's a non-professional sport.

So you're getting boys coming off working their 9 to 5 or whatever it is. And they're coming down and they've got to train. So that was one thing that really caught me by surprise. And that's when I was sat down by the lads at times like Jack, it's not all about weights. Do you know what I mean in the gym? Like, you know, you're probably looking at too much American, like college type of stuff where you're in the waiting room fucking.

Do you see the 15 second highlight? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. it's not like it's all pitch and I was like oh fuck and I was like okay well you know what I'm it's all right that's fine and then as the years

started to change like coming into what I was like doing now or whatever I really have found the love for the pitch because it's fucking it's fun man it's like the pitch is really fun and the match days but yeah with Longford it was great to kind of at the time

maybe I was a bit too naive and maybe it was a bit of a a clout status like, you know, oh, no degree working with Inter-County. Ah, fucking, like, shut your face, Jack. Like, come on, will you? Like, stop, genuinely. Like, that's what, like, what it was, like, chasing.

And sometimes, and people have views of me and whatever the fuck, and, you know, like, had little heavy bouts with, like, kind of dealing with that a couple of years back. But now, in hindsight, I don't really give a fuck about that anymore. But at the time, some of the things were like, oh, you know, stop chasing, like, that type of clout, like, type of stuff. I was like so it makes sense now

but at the same time that's what I wanted to do so it's been giving you the experience going forward for everything that you do now so what what kind of lessons

has that taught you and other experience has taught you now taking it into Bray Emma to you're really active and involved yeah

so to be quite honest the maturity side of it you have to really look about it because a lot of people think you come out of your college

and you've got the piece of paper and fair play for three four years you've got us it's your paper to get you into the industry it's not your paper to like oh i deserve that job because i've spent four years of learning from a book and you don't have the practicality behind you because really and truly what i would suggest s and c is all about and it's probably going to be bold it's about relationship build you know like you could be maybe a bit of a i was going to say tick hunt there but i don't know if that'd be loud. You could be a thick cunt but you could be a sound lad

right? And you could probably kind of get away with it because you're relatable, you're able to chat you're able to make sense. Now it might come and catch you at a time because you can only hide behind some amount of shit before it just hits the fan like but it's building, the one thing

that's kind of come off the back of that, it's all about relationship to building. Are you able to step back and actually chat to management? Are you able to chat to management on a form of level to explain what you need to do, ask them what I need to do, and then at the same time, you're going back to a squad of 30 players then, and you're not trying to be that dickhead, regimented, stand up fucking straight shoulders back. You're going to do this, like, be one of the lads,

or be one of the, be the lad to the girls who've worked with a girl team. You know what I mean? So one thing that's really opened my eyes as I come full, not full circle for fuck's sake, it's still a lot to go, but like in the half circle so far as like it's all about relationship building. And then on the backside of that, it'll be more so your punctuality, time management, because really and truly, when you think about sports now what we do, so you working with individual clients, even working with individual athletes in their respective sport, and the same with myself, everyone's amateur. So when you get to a pitch, like, you just got to be making sure that you regiment on your time. Like you start at 7pm sharp, you have what

you have planned out, ready to rock and roll, and then get into that session. Like, So in that sense It's good The first year that I took on Bray Holy shit It was kind of coming off the back So that's three years ago now So three years ago was when

Is it three years ago since COVID? So yeah so COVID I suppose highlighted a lot of time for people didn't it Like life is a tiny bit too short And it certainly highlighted to me it's too short not to be fucking doing what you don't want to do. So I always want to do S&C. I always had this mental block that I don't have the degree.

I'm not good enough to do it. And I was like, you know, fuck I'm actually going to apply. So I had someone on the inside that worked with their hurlers at the time. It's not what you know, too, you know. On both ends, actually, football and hurling. So I was like, here, listen, I'd love to get back involved. I'm going to go heavy into it now. I want to do S&C.

And I got it. So I got the footballers originally. And at the time, it was sub-less, so I was the assistant again. And I went, I don't feel comfortable at times saying this because it is a bit of a cut-throat industry. But like, I went and said, well, here, listen, you don't have an S&C coach for hurlers. I can do both. And unfortunately, it ended up that, it went back and they cut or said to the main guy, here, listen, this guy's come in now said that he'll assist the footballers,

but wants to do the head of S&C. hurlers I think we're gonna make him the head of S&C for both if you wouldn't mind stepping away like that's you know sport at the highest level that's business in this and the only kind of good thing about it is it's with it was with a guy Sammy who was so sound about he's like Jack this is it now so ready to rock so that was three years ago from now so 2020 and took the footballers took the hurlers and I shot the bet I'm like, what am I doing?

I'm the lead S&C now. Yeah, what the fuck is going on? I'm like, this is me now. So I had a nightmare for the first season between trying to juggle double training sessions from footballers to hurlers, trying to juggle to juggle the load management of your dual players

because you went from like coaching, let's say, a panel of let's say, 25 footballers and then 30, so you're, or maybe even 40, around 60 players. At the time you got around 10 of those, that would need to be somewhat fit. So I'm trying to load manage them. I'm trying to make sure that my pitch conditioning that I want to implement is correct in distance. Yeah, I just had a nightmare.

I had injuries left, right and center. I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? Jared Brennan at the time was an ex-dubbing footballer. Well known, he was the head of head coach for the footballers. At that time, Paul Carly, who was still present. and it was with the hurler so the two style of management

were different it was fucking it was so weird man it was like like well that's the thing everyone needs to be kind of singing from the same

hym sheet yeah for sure for sure because it's like it was very like a lot of running for the footballers

a lot of running a lot of high intent stuff maybe sometimes it was off the cuff just the way that manager was and because I was so

inexperienced lead Essencee maybe I was swayed a little too easy to not follow what you really believed

exactly exactly and yeah listen footballers unfortunately that season we fought for relegation we won us we bet Arrow got home

to make sure that we seated and we stayed where we were and then obviously hurlers are kind of in their own kind of league at the time and maybe people looking at

like well you had it easy because like the hurlers have been winning everything but to be quite honest we took that year as a whatever you want to kind of look at it like fair enough we won the championship but

what really hit home for me is that COVID kind of ruined our chances going into the Lenser championship and same thing again the inexperience of periodisation of how we can go from bear in mind it wasn't there for a preseason so my periodisation strategy was like right well I had the

lads here in league I had maybe a couple of weeks off I had them then in championship but because of COVID, COVID then knocked the Lenster Championship, so when you win your championship in your county, you then transition into the Lenster Championship for eight-week turnaround.

So we've gone from like just building two blocks, just waving the intensity like I was doing. And then all of a sudden, boom, nothing. So the lads come off a high of winning their excuse me, their county. And then like, how the fuck do I get ramped the lads back up in eight weeks? It's like another mini-preseason, but I had no experience of it. COVID obviously was unknown.

It was still there. We got about a COVID two weeks prior to our first round against, I think it was Wexford. Sorry, it was Wexford Craig, but I think it was there were Oilgate and they just gave us a hiding. And that really was like, holy fuck, Jack. I didn't like the feeling of that. Because I took that personally, like, you know, how, why didn't I have the lads prined or were they ready to rock and roll? did I bring the intensity up at the right time, that I taper off at the right time?

And then, yeah, second year, I set kind of a goal with myself, well, after news, not broke, but I got cut from the footballers. So the manager stepped away, they brought a new manager in, new team, and they just didn't have the respect to say,

here, listen, Jack, thanks, but no thanks. They just kind of... Let a fade. See away, so I only had the hurlers. And I was like, well, fuckies anyway. So... It's probably in hindsight. It's a lot better because second season, I was like, I'm ready to rock now.

Like, the goal, Paul Carly set the tone and he was like, this is what we want to achieve. And Lenser was a big one. So, am I getting my dates right? Lenser was a big one. So can I ask you? Go on. So let's say you have the whole season there to work with these athletes. Yeah.

What is the strategy from off-season to on-season, pre-season? Okay. Like, Cockback. Yeah. Okay. So, it was great because this is the first year now I got a full season. So for anyone who watches or listens or who someone that trains or plays, like myself is, well, did anyway. Look at your season.

I call it in three categories. You have your off-season as you highlight. You've got your pre-season and you've got your in-season. So there, to me, are the three main staples. Now, I had this with Bray And it's great hindsight So for Bray Emmett's I released three e-books And they were categorised as strength and size

Power and Speed And then body comp and conditioning So what I went to the team was afterwards And it was like last year into this season And what I said to the boys was when Because obviously, looking enough, we won Lensler Last year for the first time Any Wicklow team has won Lenser

but we lost in the semi-final of the All-Ireland against the strong limerick side monoline but we kind of looked ourselves and said here lads like what's the feed take back from this and it just came back out of certain things individually so when I went back and we let them enjoy obviously Christmas blah blah blah blah and it was coming back like body composition

fitness strength and size or speed and I said right lads in hindsight I was like this is what we need to focus on your off season is a time now of six, eight weeks, depending where you start, it could be four, six, eight weeks, of where you are going to build on what you need to build. So for instance, I'm a bit of a chunky monkey, right? If I was in my off-season and it was hindering my performance, I would have probably fallen

under the body composition and the conditioning because I needed to work on that. I needed to bring my body composition around, maybe drop some unwanted body fat, because we do know that restricted body fats in let's say the 10 or 13 or 16% for some athletes is beneficial to performance output on pitch depending... That's really interesting because I was always in my head thinking, oh, I'll season

where you get bigger and stronger but I'm only doing that from my point of view because I'm a little right. Yeah, yeah. So, and it's different. You know what I mean? So I was kind of saying like, okay, so we'll take the four to six weeks and we go on the template that I've designed for that

and if it's really individualized and you feel like something needs to change, then you come to him. Then it could be for an individual that is, I said like a rate, right? And they might need some strength and size. It's a prime time to maybe discuss maybe, okay, right, well, we're in an alright time frame where you might be able to increase your calories, do the strength, build some size before you hit pitch and pre-season. And on the flip side, you might have an individual who could be a well-versed athlete, who's just very lean, very good, is well-rebused, but might need to kind of pick up a bit of power and speed

make it a bit more powerful on that pitch you get a bit more speed training than he needs to and the reasoning why we did the off season like that is because it's the only time I personally think as a coach is that you're going to devote all of that time

into that specific goal because when you start getting to the pitch no because you're worrying about the sport then so when we kind of accomplished that metric we then rolled into kind of pre-season like us for Bray

pre-season for us is a bit different because we were granted access to playing the Dublin League for Bray so pre-season was technically two weeks before so we came back on pitch two weeks before our first technically we're still in us

but we're just utilising kind of like the Wicklow League and Dublin League but pre-season now is about building then tolerance of the pitch demands. So we're trying to increase their running demands on field. So whether that's through either aerobic capabilities or they're anaerobic.

Do you have situations where an athlete will, let's say one of their goals in the all season was to put on a lot of size for policy? Do you have a case where they end up going too far one way where they put on too much size and then that affects their actual performance? 100%. 100%.

you can look at it two ways either one lad puts on a bit too much size or one lad highlight he's going to do the body comp and then sheds nothing yeah yeah yeah like what's going on here because I tried so many ways of like trying to get in-house sessions which we're doing now

but many ways of trying to track like using apps like true coaching trainer oak and stuff like that's where lads can kind of like just tap into that and it says like they're done but have they done it so you don't see lads for four to six weeks and then all of a sudden they come back to the pitch and like, what the fuck were you doing?

Do you know what I know this disrespect him but all of a sudden they know. So now you've kind of got to let them take, let's say, two weeks. I'll talk to the manager, I'll look at the player and I'll make my own mind up but at the end of the day he'll probably start to realize I'm fucked here. So you're going to get that individual athlete

that will then either he'll approach you first or unfortunately I'll have to be the baddie an approach and say, here, listen, ex-player, like, you've got to understand we're in a small window now of this time where we're trying to go,

we're going to try and push maybe to win the Dublin League, maybe try and win the Wicklow League, but I want to get you physically fit that you're able to set your mark in this pre-season to nail your slot for the championship team. We're making it,

I'm not going to say you, because it's very hard, like, because obviously I'm part of that. Like, I'm the coach, so I'd say like... Yeah. And also your relationship with the players. Yeah.

Being even mindful of how you speak for them. 100%. So it's like, it's like, we're making our job very hard now. Because we've a goal that we need to kind of, let's say, get you a bit more conditioned. And that might mean we might have to lose some form of unwanted weight or body fat. But at the same time, we have to get you to perform at the same time. Will both them contradict each other? Well, it depends how severe you go for it.

Because we know that we need a. fuel adequately enough to make sure that we perform on a training day or a match. But sure if you're telling your player to lose weight, he's going to be in a bit of a calorie deficit, isn't he? So we're in a hard one. So that's why at the time for the off-season, it's like we can do all of this because we don't have to worry about matches. Let's tighten it up here.

And then when we get in-season, we can maintain or just manipulate something ever so slightly spoiled but nothing drastic. So, and all honestly, I've had those chit-chit. chats with a couple of players already this season and it is a bit of a hard one because you know lads take out their time to play something that they love to do and then you're coming and saying like here Larry you've got to fucking you've got to lose expel at this or we've got to increase this for you to nail it down there so even though even though your role is to look after

the team it is a very individual life in terms of work on an individual basis with your individual goal which obviously comes full circle to the main goal of the here. Yeah, 100%. Because I like to use the analogy because it's very present for us this season with the mental players that we're missing so far. But it's like a rising tide lifts all ships.

I like to use that because we have a squad of 25 now at the moment who are maybe young players or players that were on the fringes last year that we're trying to bring up and you're trying to make sure that you're keeping the one-on-one, the relationship with them to make sure that they're all good because we've got 13 players on county life. So I'm just trying to make sure that my goal as an individual is like, Jack, you're not, don't be chasing the clout, Jack. You're not going, oh, well, my county

players aren't here. Jack's was going to step away to the side there and do nothing. Like, I'm there for everyone. And my goal is to make sure that everyone gets what they need from me with the time that I'm there. So if that means it's a player coming over to me, like, I've had players coming over to me like, Jack, is there anything more running or more conditioning I can do? I might sit down and say, here, listen, like, we're in a fucking back end of where like we can have two matches in one week, one match, we've got to be smart. But I'll be there to have that chat with them or if it's someone who's interesting about nutrition, obviously I'd say, here, listen, not really my field. As such, I can only give you some form of guidance.

but if something that's very heavily involved will utilize this person or this person's content and we'll go from there but yeah um two more questions for you yeah and then we'll wrap it up wrap it up the first one i want to ask is what advice would you have for say a young athlete right now who isn't really that skilled and audible in terms of knowing how to train for their specific sport but knows that they want to improve sport performance so you know maybe someday in the few years future they can make a professional. What would your advice be at the other SEC page? I think just get in and train and play your sport. Yeah. Do you think they overcomplicate it too much?

100%. 100%. Because everyone is involved in social media these days. Everyone is involved with the time and it's moving and it is moving because back when we were in school, we certainly fuck when I was in school and social media we never had the amount of influence that we have on the phone these days. And it's a battle that I'm having now because you're getting young players, young athletes that are looking to improve the 1% but aren't doing the 99% consistency. It's make sure that you take your time and play your sport. So if it's rugby, get the ball in hand. Make sure that your tackle tech is great. Your awareness of your attacker, your defence is good. Just be present in your training

sessions with your coaches and then in your matches. Trust, let's say, your S&C coach that you have in your school. Or if it's same with the hurlers, like, get the hurl on hand. Get your touch right. Yeah. So if you want to get better hurl and play hurling. Yeah. Play football. Like, stop worrying about the 1% of like, what's something's going to do. Like, what recovery can I do? Like, play your sport, have your adequate amount of sleep. Make sure your nutrition is on point, your hydration, And then once you're consistent with those, let's say, four, then everything else should fall into place. Then maybe if you are that athlete, like you're that individual who is on the fringe. Try your recovery systems.

Like try your compression pants or your cold plunge therapy, your heat contrast, your supplementation if you need to between your weight protein or your creatine or whatever it is. like try those but for a young athlete like as we say keep it simple stupid don't overcomplicate it just play your sport be consistent and be willing to learn on the fly and then any additional always be don't be afraid to reach out but 99% trumps that 1% so stop trying to be that next person

like oh I'm doing this now like get fucked just keep the 99% and then the last question I have to before we have to wrap it up would be, what advice would you give to a younger Jack who's just going to start his S&B coaching career? Don't leave the bedroom, stay where you are. Don't go out the long first. Yeah, don't go to long for it for fuck sake.

I don't know, man, it's just... It's a tough one because you're being very heavy on yourself, can't you? I'm an individual... I'm an individual that can take a... takes on a lot of criticism. and I can portray like oh it doesn't affect me because I'm fucking

I said you have to start off cameras like I'll chat to you for age like I could fucking kick the feet up here now and I'll chat to you for the next two hours like I can chat but sometimes like it can be a front like so if I say to Jack years back

like just be bawsy like don't worry about getting over it get through it but you have been pretty bossy haven't you even with your ah you have but like I'd rather have taken a bit more gambles. I'd rather have done a couple of bit more things.

But there's no point fucking thinking about the hindsight because it doesn't get you anywhere. So how would you give advice? How would you tell, let's say, young S&C coaches just fresh out of college now? Like, how would you tell them to be more barriced? Reach out. Ask.

Don't hide. Don't wait for it to come to you because it's not going to come to you. Don't wait for the opportunity. No, no. Because the only thing that I'm going to come to you. give credit to myself is that I will chat to fucking anyone. I'll chat to that brick wall behind us there now

and have a good conversation with it. Well, this is how you got brave, right? Yeah, I'll chat to anyone. So if I see a coach who I like the look of or the idea of what he or she is doing, I'll message them. So a lot of these young coach

that come out, they won't have that communication skill of like, oh fuck I need to ask. Like, get comfortable asking. Don't be afraid to reach out. reach out and ask questions don't go straight for a juggler and say here can I have this but like be someone that can network

ask the appropriate questions be interested in what you want to achieve and what that person is achieving you know what I mean like imagine for instance I go to you and say right well Carl's after fucking sitting over 70,000 followers here okay he's getting really good views on social media I want to get to that level where my engagement on my panel or my social media platform is good.

How can I do it? I go to Carl here, listen, Carl. Like, I've been following you now for ages. I really like your content. It's really helpful and insightful. It's short, it's condensed, it's concise, it makes sense. Any tips of how I could do that to my videos?

It could be for a coach. Like, how do you fucking do X, Y and Z? You have to sound like you're actually interested in person or are interested in their insights, even if you're using that have a strategy to get you further along in your career. So, managing people, isn't it? 100%.

So to answer your question, for Jack, be a bit more confident in certain aspects. Because I think that's what I lack at times. Like, back myself. Be a bit more confident. But for younger S&C coaches, I think don't be afraid to network. You've got to be out there. I think that's in any career really, isn't it? You've got to chat, yeah.

You got a chitchas. Jack? Carl. Thanks tonight. Grav meal, August. I hope you enjoyed that episode. Jack is someone who you can just tell, just love sport, loves training. on top of that, he's a wealth of knowledge

when it comes to application of training to your specific sport. Remember, don't forget to follow the page, to subscribe, to share the podcast. This is the best way to support me and to support the show as we try to make it as impactful as possible. So, thanks for coming, and I'll see you on the next one.