The Uneducated PT Podcast - Sami Dowling Trying to make it in the world of S&C

Episode Date: September 11, 2023

In this episode we speak to the head of S&C for both Dundalk and Dublin Sami Dowling. Sami speaks about what it's like for a young, passionate and euthanasic coach trying to make it in a professional set up. The struggles, the lessons and the nuance of working with athletes of different backgrounds.

Hello and welcome to the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carlo Rourke. The goal of this podcast is to bring on interest and knowledgeable people from all walks of life, learn a little something from each conversation and for you, the listener, just learn something from each episode. So don't forget to subscribe to the channel, press the box below, show some support and I'll see you on the next episode. Starting straight away, for anyone who doesn't know, explain who you are and what you do. Okay, my name is Sammy Dowling.

I'm a strength and conditioning coach. currently working with three teams I work with Dundalk Football Club the Dublin Lady Senior Football Team and with Ballymont Kickham's senior football team and tell me a little bit how you came to being in the position you are oh good question

bit of a journey that we just spoke about which I didn't know I suppose the current positions like any coaching positions they come through contact So I suppose if I look at Dundalk, I started with them in November, since my first season with them. That came through the contact that I previously worked with and coached with. Similarly with Dublin, I got that contact through one of the coaches, Paul Casey.

He would have been a player that I coached when he was with the 2011 Dublin team that we won the All-Ireland with. And then same with Ballard-Kickham's, their new manager who's gone into that role. I worked previously with him when I was at Leinster. So that probably takes me all the way back to, I suppose, maybe the start of my journey. I would have gone to school in Prez, like we were talking about, had a horrendous leaving cert, didn't get enough points for anything on my CAO. And was kind of faced with this challenge of repeat my leave insert or find another way to pursue a coaching career. Like I was very much...

Did you know when you were in... school that this was something that you wanted to yeah like from the age of 13 my auntie gave me this book at Christmas it's mad like she gave me this book it was called the ORFU guide to strengthen conditioning so or a few like the rugby football union the English rugby team and God bless her she gave it to me because she knew I was playing rugby and I was tiny and I think she was just afraid of me getting hurt so it was great because it was these old school workouts and but I'd no equipment at home so I just would create equipment at home like I had ice hockey sticks that became my barbell I'd fill up milk bottles with sand and stones

and would find a way to do exercises and I remember like my I suppose my early passion would have been to be a professional athlete I wanted to be a pro rugby player I was going to be good enough to do that it was like find any sport that I'll work and train professionally and I'm in my happy place because I love to train was was rugby your number one sport did you plan anything else yeah I played rugby as a kid here and I competed in athletics and sprinting as well yeah so realized I wasn't good enough to do either of those professionally and I went to my career guidance counselor and I said look I found this like profession I got this DVD when I was in transition year on the the Lions rugby team

and I found this coach who was called the stress and conditioning coach I was like this is the best job in the world I get to train professional athletes on how to become bigger faster stronger so I get to apply the training that I'm doing but I get to do it with athletes and get paid to do it and she was really nice and she said, look, the chances of that are slim to none and Arden. There's only four professional rugby teams. Why don't you do engineering in UCD? I was like, no, that's not what I want to do.

So look, you know, it's funny though because like another child might, you know, just take that straight away as, you know, that's a no, so I'm going to go into something that I'm not passionate about at all and regret that 30 years down the line. Yeah. It's crazy because, look, you're faced with the choice of you sit home and you talk to your parents,

about what are the really solid career choices you should make or careers you should choose and what are the courses then that you choose to go and study to do that versus what is the career you want to do that's going to give you fulfillment so because I was into training from a very early age I got like a foot in the door in the Esplanade gym at the time which was down the beach the Esplanade had a gym yeah did not know that I know that's a long time ago worked like behind the reception desk because it wasn't a qualified gym instructor or personal trainer. So in my last year in school and sixth year,

I worked behind the desk to give me kind of a little bit of a feel of what's the industry like. Didn't get the points for my leave insert to go and do sports science because that was the automatic route to become a strength conditioning coach. So the two choices were repeat your leave insert to get the points

or find another kind of avenue into it. So my dad, to be fair, was like, look, there's a diploma in sports management in UCD. You have to pay to do it. So we'll get your student loan and it's a two-year diploma and if you get your grades to be if your grades are good enough you then get automatic entry into their degree course which I got the grades and you go straight into the second year of the degree course but at that time that course was just sports management

and over the two-year diploma I didn't enjoy that there was no like applied coaching no aspect to it so I said look there's no coaching aspect to it I don't want to work in the sports management's sector. So I then said, look, I've really enjoyed my last couple of years working in the Esplanade gym. They've gone from allowing me to be behind the desk to kind of supervising some classes. So why don't I go and do a personal training course? And then after that, the plan was then to go and do like a postgraduate, go in to study sports science as a postgraduate. Yeah. So did my personal training course in Sally Nagin. Got the kind of gym instructor qualification year one, which then allowed me to coach a little bit more and I really enjoyed the I suppose the coaching aspect

and then got an opportunity in school to assist there with Olin who would have been my S&C coach and that then took me down a journey of I actually can't even quite remember how that's what happened sorry and there was a the IRFU had a certified conditioning course that you could do in in Limerick it's a week-long course I did that and kind of really applied myself myself and Liam Hennessy who was the director of fitness for the RFU at the time rang me up the following week and said look we're doing a study at the moment we need some extra coaches would you like to come and view and assist and I said yeah and I just turned it into the biggest networking opportunity like possible got to meet other

coaches and then I said look this is currently what I'm doing I want to be a fault I'm S&C coach should I just bite the bullet now leave halfway through Sally Nagin and do that and he said no what I think you should do is your workplace that you have in Sally Noggin, instead of doing it in the gym that you're working in, let's get you into Leinster and let's get you opportunities to do all your work placements there. Do you think that, like, to become a successful strength and conditioning coach, that networking is probably one of the key components to achieving that? It's probably the number one.

Because I was talking to Jack Lawrence, obviously, on the podcast, and I asked him a question, I go, what is one thing you wish you did more of, or what is one piece of advice that you pass down to younger strength and conditioning coaches? he goes network more because be a bit more bossy go and ask for opportunities like talk to people yeah couldn't agree more Jack by the way who's an absolute legend and that's probably the first thing I tried to kind of teach him was like you have to you have to be open to putting yourself out there yeah and we talked about that like literally in in every career nearly like if if you're good at networking it can take you so

far you have to you don't know when you're going to come across that person again and the doors that that potentially could open. Even if it doesn't open a door right there and then. It might down the line. Yeah, and that's what happened. It opened up a door as an intern that eventually turned into an opportunity to apply for a full-time job that I never thought I'd get, that I ended up getting.

And then I just went into full-time coaching in Leinster in the academy system to working with some of the teams in Irish rugby, worked with the underage teams, the Irish women's team, helped it with the 2011. pre-world Cup camp with the men's team and that then all of a sudden gave opportunities to work with Dublin football, spend time with them and before you know it just it just doors open doors open it stacks up yeah what did what did you learn in that time um I've I've learned more reflecting now at the time you probably get caught up in it and you are thinking too much about what you want to

achieve as opposed to enjoying all the coaching opportunities while you're there Yeah. Probably one of the biggest things I learned is that you have to be open-minded. And the real tough challenge when I entered that world was... Did you have an idea of how you wanted to work and how things were going to work? I had an idea of where I wanted to go, but I was also suffering with massive imposter syndrome. That's what I was about to ask. I was the only person in there that didn't have an undergraduate degree.

Yeah. So I didn't have any academic experience. is to draw on my coaching. Everything I was doing was based on what I was learning off my peers and the mistakes I was making as a coach. Yeah. Well, that's why I've called this podcast the uneducated PT because then it just puts it out there for everyone to know

so I can actually relax about it then when I ask people like yourself on. Yeah. And I think it's really tough because because I was the only one that was, let's call it unqualified, it probably, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, I, pigeonhole myself yeah and I didn't allow myself to be more open-minded so I forced myself probably to try and be a specialist very quickly I mean they they it wasn't that they forced it on me either but it was very much that everyone became a specialist so find the niche and become really good at that niche so

for me what they really enjoyed what they liked about me was that I was a very good technical coach in the lifting realm and in the speed realm and I invested a lot of time into doing that but what I didn't develop was good coaching skills and good coaching knowledge on the conditioning side and the integrated side so and the the player management side so that became very a real frustrated with myself with that when I realized those were skills I hadn't developed well do you think it was there so was the the whole focus on narrowing down to a niche so you felt like you were indispensable they

couldn't kind of yeah and and and and And that's just kind of what S&C was at the time. You felt like you had to attach a label that you were this type of coach. But then the recession happened, right? And then all of a sudden you became, you only became a commodity if you were a really good generalist. So you then had to kind of reinvent the wheel, but really understand that actually I need to understand

all of the facets and the aspects of strength conditioning. Yes, it's really good to have a specific niche element that you enjoy. but not just solely focus on that. So that kind of takes you down a journey of then being open-minded and realizing, God, you know, I should have asked more questions at the early stages instead of just doing this one type of thing. But look, I think that's a coaching journey you need to, that's a journey you need to go on as a coach, irrespective.

So for someone who wouldn't be clued up on the roles of a strength and conditioning coach on the day to day when working with teams, whether it's Dundak, whether it's Dublin ladies. Like what is the role of a strength and condition and coach in your eyes? In a nutshell, it's like you're essentially responsible for making sure players are fit to play. Yeah. Right?

Like it's, we can attach lots of fancy words to it, but ultimately bare bones, we need to make sure the players are fit to play. And fit to play doesn't just mean like aerobically fit. Depending on the different sports and the different levels, of which the players are competing at there becomes different kind of fitness qualities that they need to be good at right and players that I work with will also

like I'm working with players of varying ages and I was going to ask you about that the differences between coach and neither yeah and ultimately you just have to recognise and explain to coaches and to players the stage that they're at and then it's up to you to get them to a level that they can compete

and that's ultimately what we're there to do We're not just there to make sure that they can participate. If we don't develop them to be fit enough to compete, you're not going to last very long in the job. How important is it to really know the sport as well as, obviously, your job to make sure that they're fit to play, but also to understand the sport that they play to be able to give that assessment? Yeah, look, it's important to understand the sport

from the physical quality side of things. but you don't need to be an expert in the sport from a technical, tactical side of thing. And I think sometimes that can be a hindrance. And I'll give you an example there. Like when I started working with Dublin football in 2009, I had no clue about the rules. Yeah.

I played like three months of Gaelic football in transition year and that's it. So I went into Dublin. I didn't know the sport in terms of the rules, the technical, like, I also didn't know the players. I don't know who the superstars were. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I actually think that's an advantage going in.

As long as when you watch a sport that you recognize, these are the different physical qualities that you need to train, I think that's enough. I don't think you need to be an expert in the sport itself. Do you think if someone goes in, like, let's say an S&C coach goes into an environment like that, where they are, like, a huge fans, so to speak, that can kind of musk up their advice

to certain players if they're like let's say a star player or something like that yeah i couldn't agree more i think the worst thing you could do and i've seen it happen is talk to players about their game that's not our job yeah yeah yeah if they ask that question you have to kind of like be your hand bush a little bit because the last thing you want is to influence them or even a coach like just ask you those questions like you've got to i think it's really important you've got stay in your lane yeah and you can just provide you know answers based on your physical knowledge and the demands of the game and without crossing over on the technical side.

Unless you're qualified as well on that technical side, but I think there definitely are more challenges for a coach who is, say, coming away from having competed in that sport than coaching the physical qualities for that sport because there's just gonna be that natural bias associated with it. So if they can separate the two, I think you're doing really well, But like I said, I think for me, was an advantage working with sports that I had very little technical knowledge or coaching knowledge on.

Because you don't even think about it. Yeah, yeah. Your ignorance is bliss, essentially, so you can do the role that you want. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about for athletes that are actually listening to this now and might not. You know, they might be playing their sport and they want to get better at it, but they don't really understand the training side of things, recovery side of things, you know, getting better at their sport from that side of things. So what are some of the general mistakes that athletes would make in, let's say, the off-season

when they want to go into pre-season and in-season a little bit sharper? Yeah. So they kind of go, I've seen athletes go down one of two ways, right? Yeah. I'll address the first one. One is they do very little, okay, and they turn into a sack of spuds. And they then just find... Most of the last one might, yeah.

And they do that year-in, year out, and they get away with when they're younger. Because they just associate preseason with being this massive battle, this huge, like, hill or mountain they have to climb. And when they're younger, it's fine. It's probably like a small bump, right? It's like brayhead, right? Easy to do. And then it becomes the sugar loaf as they get older.

And before you know it, it's Mount Everest that they have to climb. Yeah, and bodies ache. Yeah, and the preseason shouldn't be this slog, right? So that's, they either do very little or nothing, or they go down the other route, and they become too specific and too isolated. So I'll give you an example. They either want to put on muscle mass and they train like a bodybuilder during the off season.

But they want to get stronger and they train like a power lifter or they want to get faster and they train like a sprinter. Instead of thinking about, well, if I need to get bigger, what are the basic principles that I need to apply? That a bodybuilder would use to get bigger. But then how do I apply them? Well, for me and my sport and all the other different like training elements that I still need to have in my program, so that I can still get a little bit bigger. So yeah, they get too isolated. They forget about the other qualities.

And then let's say, for example, they put on the muscle masters they're happy with. They didn't go back into preseason training and because they haven't addressed the other qualities, they end up getting injured. They break down because they haven't trained anything else. And all of a sudden, the increase in intensity of training is so high and they've lost those qualities that naturally they end up breaking them.

It must be difficult for like amateur, athletes who are trying to make it in their sport who, you know, they're not going to have this type of knowledge in terms of knowing what to do in the gym and knowing how to train in the gym and they might not have a strength and condition and coaching their club and so on and so forth that a lot of the mistakes that they make is probably going into the gym and just training like a bodybuilder. Yeah. And like it's harder now because I think social media probably adds fuel to the fire. Yeah. All you have to do is type in like what it is you want to achieve.

Shoulder day. Yeah, and you can find all these workouts and all these accounts of what you should do. And like this is like, it's only human nature. You see what someone does and you associate what they do. Yeah, or how they look. Yeah, exactly. We don't get, we just see the tip of the iceberg, right?

I made the mistake when I was younger as well in terms of how I train. First with wanting to train like a body builder to get bigger. Yeah. But then even seeing what some of the pro rugby players were doing in terms of their training footage and then trying to do it. they're recognizing that that's just a tip of the iceberg right we don't know what they've

done for the decade before yeah also potentially just like the genetic predisposition that they like irrespective of how they train yeah that just could be that's how they are right so it is tough and I think like the advice I always give when someone asked me as well like the first thing sometimes like players the biggest mistake they make is at the end of the season and they're and I love it. They're focused in their off-season, but they don't even sit down with their manager

or their technical coaches and they ask them, what do you think I need to improve on? Instead of like this self-analysis of I'm not big enough, I'm not strong enough, I'm not fast, I'm not fit enough.

Ask a coach... Projecting your insecurities. Particularly if they're going to coach you next year. Like, if you want them to select you, what do you think I need to improve on from a physical point of view? It's such a simple thing, but we don't do it.

And then go to, like, an expert, go to a trainer, go to whoever you feel that could actually program and provide you some knowledge, who doesn't know you, who could provide some form of assessment and go, okay, well, look, based on what I'm presented with right here, these are the things you're really good at.

Okay, these are the things you're not so good at. And probably in the middle, these are the things you want to work out, you want to work on. So let's kind of design a program that does a bit of everything, you know, that focuses on what you need to be good at in terms of like here, some weaknesses that you have. let's also focus on, let's put an element to focus because to keep you training of what you want to do. Let's not forget what you're good at as well.

And let's keep that in there as well. Like, you know, let's keep your strengths, your strengths as well. Like, don't, we don't want to, you know, just focus on them either. But if you're good at something and you have certain physical qualities that allow you to be a good athlete, like, don't remove them from the program either. So having that kind of balanced approach in the off season, I think, is really important. And the off season is a really important stage where the first thing that you need to do at the beginning stages is unwind as well. Now, like I said, if you have an eight or 12 week off season, you turn into a bag of spudsman, you do nothing for eight and 12 weeks. Keep yourself like seven, ten, maybe 14 days of no structure training, right?

As in like maybe the only bit of training you do could be if you're on holidays playing a bit of golf, playing a bit of tennis or you see a, a class of some sort and you might do a few of them right do that and then incorporate movement exactly and then gradually build in an element of structure that focuses on your weaknesses like I said the things you enjoy and the things you're good at

and just make sure that there's a good balance approach there and as you then get closer and closer whenever the time point is going to be for when there's a return to formalised training make sure there's like there's a gradual build-ups your body's ready for that and that's a big mistake people make they go from just training in the gym

for that full off-season period doing no running, right? Doing no speed work, doing no tactical technical side of things, not kicking a ball, right? Then all of a sudden going into preseason training perhaps

where there's like three training sessions a week from the week two or week three that could be a game. Yeah. It's just a recipe for disaster. They're like a robot going under the pitch. Yeah. Do you find that like, let's say

athletes who, because most athletes probably are a bit over. obsessive and they have to be in terms of their sport to succeed but do you find that then if let's say on the off season that they don't take that break that you know they could suffer suffer burnout or injury through overtraining and stuff like that yeah definitely because naturally like I said the biggest thing that's removed during the off season is the game right or the sport that they're competing in yeah and that's really tough because when you're a competitor that's what

you look for to every week right that's your whole week is built around yeah that game that to perform. So when that's removed, I think you're naturally going to want to replace that with something else that you can compete in and perform it. And it's really easy to, I suppose, make those pitfalls. But there's opportunities to compete in something else, but to find another focus that allows you to ultimately perform every week. And I think just having a little bit of guidance on that is important. And you can also do it by finding something else. Like, I always encourage athletes to find another sport that they can potentially do during the off season or a class. So whether that's a fitness class or play five beside football.

Something enjoyable. Yeah. Something that is a bit of banter to, but something that you feel like that gives you still that little bit of edge to compete with without putting you into the realm of over training or getting injured. That's why I like basketballers and footballers and all they all love to play golf, don't they? because it's still, it's not gonna, it's probably not gonna cause you an injury, but still has that competitive. Definitely.

Like, and it's the same with, I say to any of the football players, like, play your five aside. From a technical, the tactical point of view, it's great. Yeah. From a, like, camaraderie point of view,

it's brilliant. But from the physical side of things, of you're still getting, like, the short bursts of speed, the change of direction. It's brilliant from that side of thing. So if, if, that is the only bit of, like, speed,

excel the cell stuff you're doing once per week like bright we're ticking that box whereas old school managers would usually have the perceptions like now don't do anything in the offseason don't get injured or don't do anything preseason or other than them being in here and doing our training yeah and there's probably like an element of like maybe insecurity associated with that as well there could be a fear of like you'll you'll break down but I think I think we sometimes have to remember that like athletes are like they're road they're a road they're a road they're a bus I think we don't give ourselves enough credit for how strong athletes are like the games we're playing like injuries can happen but if we remove that element of like

toughness for an extended period of time yeah then they're then they become soft yeah and then like the chances of them getting injured increase goes up and set a down yeah yeah yeah um what for for someone like myself who wouldn't know the ins and outs of like let's say um in season and stuff like that when when when these are going for championships and these are going for titles and stuff like that what would what does the gym work look like for athletes on the in season is it a lot of just recovery in the gym is there actual work still being done in terms of keep taking over and stuff like that yeah it's really good question and it looks different at different stages so yeah we let's go backwards from

the say peak week or peak of the season say the final yeah probably a really good example the Ireland final last week yeah with the ladies team if we look at how we train in the two weeks leading up to that in the gym, the biggest thing you'll know is that looks different in the gym session compared to the off-season or even the start of pre-season, first thing is probably exercise selection. We'll use less exercises.

Yeah. Right? Because we just focus on what is most important that's going to allow us to make sure that we can perform and peak. And anything that isn't going to allow us to perform is removed. So we probably look at,

I'll give you actually a real-life example. Yeah. So our last gym session would have been five days out. And the main exercises were some plyometric jumps. So we would have done our hurdle series. Yeah. A loaded counter movement jump. So that's our lower body.

And then a push and a pull, a concentric bench and a dumbbell row. Four exercises. That's it. And then we have two. accessory exercises for robustness, the session is no more than 30 minutes long. Like, in and out. Athletes feel fresh. They feel like they could do double the amount.

But they don't need to do more to perform in the finals. Did I want to come out of the gym feeling like they've more energy than less energy essentially? Some of them, yeah, some of them, and this takes a bit of time to work around, feel like they have, some athletes don't like walking out of the gym feeling like there's still room left in the time. Yeah, yeah, I could say that. That's an education process, but definitely when we get to the final stages, like they understand what's most important is how we perform in the game.

Everything else has to supplement that, right? If it doesn't, if anything we do does not allow us to perform well in the game, it has to be removed. And that's like a tough journey to go on as a coach. Is that a maturity aspect as well in terms of that leads you work with that? Like you'll have like the younger,

younger as who would be like I want to train out the hard I work the better I'll perform whereas as they get older it's like no I need the rest of my body because I know I'll perform better on this given day if if I pull back now yeah 100% and like that's where like exercise selection is so key that they understand that why are we it's not like why are we doing less why are we doing what we're doing okay so the reason we're doing what we're doing is so that we can perform at the weekend yes it looks like we're doing less Sorry. You're gone.

Yes, it looks like we're doing less than the start of the in-season or during pre-season, but this is what? Because during the off-season and pre-season at the start of in-season, as we build up, we're still training to build physical qualities to be able to perform at the peak stage of season. Right now, we're training so that we, like I said, everything that we're doing with enough recovery allows us to peak. Anything that we're doing right now, if that provides too much stress, so that we can't recover for that game, it has to be removed.

So like I said, exercise selection is less. The other thing that's less is the volume. The volume is drastically reduced. And the intensity is there with exercises that needs to be. So like I said, our ply metrics, so our kind of low load exercises, the focus is on like speed and speed of movement. Yeah. All the heavy lifting has been removed.

Or if we're doing any form of lifting, like I said, our concentric bench, we're reducing the range. Again, to remove that risk of injury or that eccentric damage, the focus in season, like I said, with training, is about performing in the game. So everyone we're doing is there to make sure that we have enough time to recover so that we can peak. Where in the earlier stages, we're still training to develop certain adaptations.

So performing optimally is not going to be there. So we're going to have more exercise. The exercise selection will be higher. The volume will be higher. and recovery won't be optimal within 24 hours to peak. And once everyone understands that, I think that's perfectly fine. As long as we understand where we're at, where we're going and what the goal is. In terms of the three sections, like the in-season, the pre-season and the off-season,

would the off-season be the most important time frame in terms of catching up on them weaknesses that you have as an athlete? Because you essentially don't really have as much time to, for you know, your individual programming if it's preseason and in season. Yeah, it's a really good question. I think, I hate to use the answer. It depends, but I'll give you some example, right? It depends on the individual and the experience they have. So someone who has probably a decade worth of training qualities doesn't, I suppose, during their

off season, doesn't need to rebuild as much as someone who doesn't have those qualities. So a more experienced athlete, their off-season is focused more on regeneration, recovery. Their ability to rebuild and retrain comes much quicker because of their experience, the qualities they have. Whereas someone who's very young, who has a very young training age, we had a couple of players this year who came in from the minor squad in Dublin where there's no S&C programming at all. So they're coming in fresh, which is great, but at the same time, we need to develop some really, like, solid foundations to make sure that when we get to the final, that if we get to the final, that they haven't broken down during that journey. Their off-season is, like, is so important. It's, like, of a different level. And the same with their pre-season and their in-season.

We would train them. We would actually push the boundaries of training physical qualities further into. the in season with them with them than the other actors and that's where communicating that with the different managers and coaches as well as a player so that they understand so that players who get certain exercises removed from their program and feel fresher coming out of the gym recognize that the reason we're doing that with them versus the others is not that we want them that not that they're not training sometimes they feel like oh we're not training as hard as them like why are you pushing them more it's to remind them that well they still need these

physical adaptations. We need to continue building them up because they don't have the qualities you have. And if we don't do that, then they're not going to be able to support you in peak. And because they don't have that, they still have the capacity to recover quicker because they're still in that newbie phase. You know yourself, when you're training a newbie, they can train five, six, but maybe seven days a week and recover and continue going on. As you get closer and closer and as you increase that kind of train ability, doing less is more. recovery becomes almost like every day yeah it does and and I think just communicating that is so important yeah it's really like even though like it's a

you have your collective train and it's very specific to each each athlete that you work with their training yeah like and I think sometimes this happens in the the essence industry they forget like we're ultimately personal trainers they don't like to be called personal trainers right it was a stage where there was like this distinct of like oh so you're a personal trainer it's like no no Jesus I'm I'm a strength and conditioning coach. You're training loads of individuals. Your personal training individuals in a group environment.

And if you're not, you are very disillusioned in what you're doing. Yes, there's general templates. There's general concepts and programs that we're putting out there. And we're not designing an individual program for every player, but we're probably booketing players into certain categories. And then from session to. session a week to week we're making small tweaks here and there if that isn't personal training then what is you know and that's probably one of the biggest mistakes

young S&C coaches make they they enter this world of I want to be an S&C coach they want to train in this team environment and they've never coached one-on-one and like any coach I take on as an intern number one advice I give them is start coaching one-on-one as soon as you can so Dean that's really benefited you over time is doing that kind of trade of personal training and down in thingy and work with general public before even at least so important for a few reasons like number one learning how to communicate with them yeah to talk with them yeah when to have a bit of banter yeah and when to be serious like getting to understand that like not every day when a player turns up to training are they firing

on all cylinders so getting to understand like what really makes them drive when they're low how to people back on things and if you if you if you can't read a player you can't read someone if you haven't developed those skills you're going to make an awful lot of mistakes so I think you know working one-on-one with as many people as you can at the start is so important so you even get to see how people respond to different programs yeah how they respond to different training intensities how they respond to just even different training environments some players you work with love working in large groups they love the the balls and the music and some players don't yeah and just being able to understand that is really important so you

know when to have those conversations of when to you know give them that pep talk and be able to recognize that look that's what they need right now yeah and reading people is really is repetition over time isn't it yeah yeah and something that you have that I think is really good I just want you to expand on it a little bit so be stubborn on vision but flexible on details yeah explain what that means so um Bezos, I saw him talk about that in one of his documentaries. And it really, it just was like this light bulb moment went off.

And I was like, this is what I've learned over time, what coaching is. In the early stages of coaching for me, it was you write your program and this has to be adhered to. No modifying. And if anything changes, the program is flawed. or if something isn't working so if I design this program which is like all the intricacies which is the detail

if I'm not flexible I'm moving that then the program is flawed and over time I've become to realize that that's not the flaw the goal is the goal right so if we have a goal in mind whatever that might be

we don't lose sight of the goal but there's many ways to get there you know what I mean like you know, many parts lead to Rome. So if something doesn't work, which is the detail part, let's use an exercise, for example, you know. I want to get someone stronger. I've always found the five-by-five principle works.

They get stronger. I love the box squat, for example. Like, got to teach them at the box squat. And that person just may not be anatomically designed well to squat. It doesn't have to be the box squat. It could just be like a general squat, right? Yeah. And being fixated on, they have to do five by five with the squat.

If they don't do that, they won't, their leg strength won't improve. It's like, no, no, no, you're getting too bogged down on that detail. We want them to get stronger. Let's think about the basic principles that we need in order for them to get stronger. And then there's many exercises we can choose to adhere that. As long as we're not training to be a power lifter when they actually need to put a barbell on their back, that's different. But that's nearly go more so than details. Exactly.

So over time, just kind of realize that don't lose sight of the vision, but be flexible with the detail in terms of how we want to achieve that. And with that, I just think over time, it's just reflection. Yeah. And again, being open-minded, like, it's so tough for me because when... Well, you'll have things that worked in the past, so then you're thinking, if it worked in the past, it always works. Yeah, like, rinse and repeat.

And if it doesn't, like, then, again, something's flawed with how I'm doing. It's like, no, no, no, it comes back to imposter syndrome, not having, not being open-minded in the start of my journey, asking, number one, asking question, and also asking the right questions. And this is probably what I've done is, like, I ask more questions now than what I did when I was younger. I was afraid to ask questions when I was younger.

You don't want to look stupid, yeah. Yeah, I was like, what do you mean? I didn't know the answer to that, like, this is the basic thing. So, yeah, that's why I really adopt that philosophy of, like, you know, like it's being flexible with the detail is really important but be stubborn with your vision and don't deviate from that and you know don't be afraid to like communicate that with the right people and that's really that was really important when I work with teams I always ask like what's your vision here like how do you feel I can contribute because I want to be really like

I'll be open-minded but like in order for me to be able to contribute I need to understand what the vision is here so we have like this like level of I suppose understanding, this is what I feel I can do. If that's aligned, if the philosophy is aligned, brilliant. But nine times out of ten, the philosophy isn't aligned because we're not open enough about the vision. And if that's not, like, if it's not, if we're not open enough about the vision,

then how are we gonna get there to the go? So I suppose that, hopefully that explains it. But that's, yeah, I think just being. You need to be adaptable to all situations. Yeah. As long as you're still going in the direction that you want to go. Yeah. sometimes you need to take a step back and that's okay as long as you recognize

that that's not a weakness either because that can sometimes happen it's like that's it becomes ego then doesn't it yeah yeah definitely and what is the wisest thing that you have ever heard someone say in the Essencee space that you've adopted so this is one that like again you sometimes have to learn by mistake but adding more weight to the bar today doing an extra rep or doing an extra set or potentially an extra training session this week is not going to allow me to be better to perform this weekend. So doing that little bit of extra, doing more today is not going to make me better at the weekend. However, doing more today could break me and not allowing me to be better at the weekend.

So doing more isn't always better. And it's just that, again, reaffirming confirmation with the coach. And it's really tough when someone's making progress and they're looking at you. Can I have more weight? they're like, oh God, like, I think they could. Some numbers, you know, like they've just backed by the 195. I do the 200. And it's tough because you feel like, oh, if they do that,

like I've helped contribute to that. They're happy, and then more importantly, it's like, coasting's more importantly, I'm really happy. And you've got to think about it, more importantly, what's the best thing for them so that they can compete at the weekend? What we do today is not going to make us better to compete the weekend. There's the compounding effect that we do. from session to session, you know, week to week, month to month, that allows them to ultimately

be better. But doing more today does not make them better at the weekend and it's just always remembering that and communicating that with the athletes as well. And I would imagine that for athletes, like they're, they associate you with this lad's going to make me stronger and this lad's going to get me stronger. And it's that push and pull. They're trying to, that athlete would always try to push and you've to pull them back. Yeah. And like they trust you ultimately. doing them more is probably one of the best things. It's actually a couple with another one. And look, you've come across this.

They don't care how much you know until they know that you care. Right. And I've seen this. It's actually really enjoyable. When you train interns and you bring interns into the team environment, even any coach who has zero experience, the moment you see the athletes trust them, is the moment that you recognize that.

They don't care how much you know. They don't care who have you worked with. If they know you care about them, that's all that matters. So the level of experience is actually irrelevant when you're coaching, as long as there's a trust. And I think that is so important. But in my early days, I thought it was all about trying to build as much experience as possible. Take on as much work as I can because the more experience I have,

the more teams I've worked with, the more that athletes are going to trust me because they're going to be like, he's got so much knowledge. He knows. based on how many teams he's worked with or who he's worked with surely that dictates how much knowledge he has and they'll buy in then it's like no it's yeah because you could have all the you could have all the knowledge in the world but if they don't take it on board then the knowledge is useless if you don't if you don't if you don't create an environment where they feel you care about them all the knowledge in the world is irrelevant yeah it will go on

deaf airs yeah um i suppose we spoke about it a little bit before but what is one mistake that you wouldn't make again as a coach? Um, probably thinking that they're going to respect you based on being this very like strong figure, very vocal figure, this discipline-style figure. style figure so my early days of coaching if a player was late I would try and create you know this kind of feeling of like Dave made a mistake there and like and and and not just nuts now we're like almost like punish players for doing things wrong as opposed to be a real discipline yeah and and it came from the environment that I was introduced in and I saw that being done and I and I

saw players respect the coaches and I thought well that's cause and effect that's why they respect them but kind of quickly learned like no that's not how they respect you again back to they don't care how much you know until they know that you care yeah and you being your own man and your own coach exactly and not trying to replicate a coaching style of someone else so it does take time I think to find your coaching style well you're always as a as a young coach you're always going to try and adopt what you see around you the success you see around you yeah so that's something for good some for the bad

Yeah, so that's like one of the early mistakes I made. And probably another one is just trying to take on too much. Trying to take on too many roles. Like I hated saying no. Yeah. And it wasn't like that. I thought like, oh, it looks good, but I just love to help. Like as coaches and trainers, like when we feel like someone's like need some guidance,

it's really hard to say no to that. But we're also only one person. You know, we can't clone ourselves. And, you know, the reality is, is if you say no, you're not letting them down, like, find someone else. That's the reality, do you know? Like, you're not the only person that can help them. I suppose when you're young and your young coach is like, say yes to, you're, and say yes to as much opportunities as possible for anyone to ask anything. And then as you get older, it's like, all right, I don't have time to.

Yeah. And then you also, like, if you say yes, if you fill your calendar up with every hour of the day to coach, right? you don't have time to like reflect and think clearly as well you literally just go from like session to session to session and you ultimately and it happened to me you just burn out yeah and what use are you then to the people that you're that you're servicing then like you said less is more yeah completely yeah and speaking on that I read that you took um before you started the season with Dublin and with Dundock you took some time out is that correct yeah so what do you feel why did you feel like it was the right time to get the back into it. Oh. Was it like a time of reflection? Yeah. Like initially, like COVID probably was like, so the initial, I took time out initially

because I'd no choice. Yeah. So COVID just like completely ripped the carpet from under you when it came to being a coach. Even you're working with teams. Yeah. Because you at the time couldn't work with teams. And then as you go back to work with them, financially, teams didn't have the budgets they did before.

So all of a sudden, that then is gone. So you kind of pivot and move. I also was really enjoying time at home, truly be told. Jacob, during COVID, I think was two turning three. So I really enjoyed spending time at home with Jacob and Emma and kind of learned for the first time in my life

what it was like to be at home for dinner all the time, to be home for weekends. So I kind of pivoted a little bit to find a career not allowed that to be at home. We then were expecting twins, so I needed to be home. And then once they became, I suppose, old enough, and I had an opportunity to reflect during that time. I think I'd spent maybe two years not coaching

and trying to pivot and find another way. I just was just really depressed. And I was also very frustrated that I was, finding a way to make a living yet like 15 years of experience I'd gone and done my masters in strength conditioning so I felt like I've like plugged the gap academically yeah really like wasn't there at the start from an imposter syndrome point of view I was then also like really annoyed that I built up all this knowledge as much as I can I can transfer some of that skill set I felt like I have so much to give that I can't actually apply and I got really frustrated

it. So sat down with them and I said, look, this is where I'm at and I want to find a way where I can still be at home and spend time with you and the kid, but where I can do what I love to do. That gives me fulfillment and ultimately that's what comes into. As much as I can transfer the skill sets and find another career, I've tried it and it doesn't give me fulfillment. Like not at all. I feel like a bit of a fraud. feel that I'm not, if I continue doing this, I'm not going to be happy. I'm starting that process of being unhappy and it's actually starting to affect things at home. So she was so supportive. She's like, look, if that's what you want to do, let's do it. But let's just obviously still

make sure we're, you know, we're still keeping that family work life balance, which we've really got during this time. So then it was just about finding kind of the right opportunities and it's funny like you talk about putting yourself out there it was really tough I'd never done it before I just put up on LinkedIn like open to work opportunities looking to like saying she's looking to get back into the field and I was really afraid to do it why was that um I was afraid because I thought like God will people see this as a sign of weakness yeah because every year come October November offers come on the table just kind of in the in essence world how it happens and because

for that two three year cycle it hadn't happened with cobb and because they they had seen i pivoted i knew the only way to get myself out there was i actually have to let people know i know it's i mean it's saying it's silly to think that i was embarrassed about it but like how are they going to know i'm open to work unless i actually put up open to work yeah yeah and then but it's like it's something that people do all the time they they want the opportunity to get frustrated about not getting it get having it but then they don't let anybody know that they want it yeah and then yeah you just offers come in and you just have to make decisions and sit down at home and talk about you know you know like selecting the right offers and making sure and being honest with those offers that

look this is who I am now so I mean now is different than Sammy pre-COVID soami now is a you know father of three kids you know two of them are like I mean only turn to next week so The time I have to give is not the same time I had before. When I'm here, I'm 100%, but, you know, I can't do this role 100%. So it either involves some flexibility and that works for you. And if it doesn't, it doesn't, and that's okay. Yeah, well, it's not about giving all your time. It's about when you give your time that it's quality time for the athletes, I suppose.

And speaking on fatherhood and stuff like that, have you found since becoming, well, for the last, so, I suppose you've been a father for what now? Three years with three kids? Four years? Two years with three kids and then yes, Jacob just turned six. Yeah.

So do you think that in terms of the role you play as a father, does that translate over into your coaching law? Yeah, and that's like, it's a funny one because you don't realize it until you're a dad that all of a sudden you start to really recognize

the biggest one is probably how you communicate. So like if I see how I communicate with Jacob now as a six-year-old. It's very different than how I communicated with him when he was four or when he started to talk. And you essentially, you have to figure out how to communicate with him

so that he understands you because that's his biggest frustration. The kid's biggest frustration through their journey, right? From the moment they start to communicate in any sense or form to when they start to have some words to when they can talk, to when they can actually understand.

And then I kind of recognize that that's exactly what, happens with athletes, you know, with players, with clients. When you're discussing something with them, you're communicating with them, you have to find a way to find common ground, to talk the same language. You know, I can't talk to a player the way I talk to you. Potentially at some stages I may, if I educate them and we go through this journey, but that's what it is, like it's a communication journey. So I need to find a way that when I talk to, you know, 18-year-old Neve versus, you know, 28-year-old.

called Hannah, right? It's a 10 year difference. Huge difference in what's going on in their life. Exactly. How they'll react to your conversations, communication. And the experiences they've had as athletes with coaches and the language and knowledge and understanding.

So being a dad has definitely helped me with that. And what about being a coach to being a dad? Do you find that because you've been in the coaching game so long that that helped you with the transition of becoming father? Yeah, it's funny because it's the same. You end up, you end up realizing you become a little bit more, you become softer in some aspects because you realize that,

like, again, for your kid to understand what you're doing with them or how you're trying to communicate with them, it's the same in reverse. So I can't talk to Jacob the way I talk to you. Yeah. So I need to find a way that the biggest thing, like, for kids is to give them an opportunity to learn that you're there to listen and understand. So I think what coach, coaching has helped me with on the side of being a parent is it's it's helped me realize like the more I listen to my kids yeah the more I give them an opportunity to to allow me to understand them mm-hmm the more open the conversation is going to be and and that's probably the other thing like being a dad I think has allowed me like my coaching style is is I'd say softer now if you asked a an athlete like coach 10 15 years ago to walk in and follow me for a week now. To be completely different from me.

Yeah, like softer in tone and more understanding and... Well you wouldn't want to be the same coach that you are 15 years ago because it means that you haven't grown as a... Yeah, but even apart from the growing and like say in knowledge but I think really more even how I communicate and the tone and... Well that's your own... that's your emotional intelligence coming through then I suppose. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay, last question that I'm going to ask you. So out of all the things that you've learned so far in your coaching career and the things that you've probably learned this season,

especially after taking a break and coming back and now working with Dundalk and working with Dublin, what are the skills and attributes that you feel that you're going to continue to work on and grow as a coach and become better at your job? I think to continue being open-minded, I think what's really enjoyable when you work in a team setting is you recognise like you're... a piece of the puzzle or you're a cog in the wheel,

you're not the wheel. So they're still missing parts for me, particularly say on the rehab side. So with some of the teams I work with, it's a very kind of like specialist skill and some teams I work with it's a more generalist skill. So on the general side, you know, over the years I've had to tap into improving the sports science aspect,

the wellness aspect, the GPS aspect, The one I feel like I still need to work on is on the rehabilitation side of things. So that's one that I'm going to tap into this year as well. And then ultimately, like the management side of the management side of thing. So, you know, when I'm working with Dublin, like it's a big backroom staff. And it's brilliant because we all know we have a specific role, but we also work with each other collectively. and I think to continue learning those kind of softer skills when it comes to managing and delegating,

that's just a huge room for improvement. Like if I coach, if I think of like on any given day, I'm probably only coaching for, like, intensely coaching for no more than maybe two, three hours maximum. Yeah. Like outside of that, you're having conversations. There's admin side of thing. There's travel. So within the coaching side, it's actually.

very, very small. So it's not that I don't want to continue improving to want to be a coach. But there's so many other things that happen in my day. I feel like this huge scope to continue improving that. Which is a lot of working with people. Yeah. And your open communication. Yeah. And obviously your emotional intelligence and soft skills with that. It's massive. If any athletes want to reach out and maybe get advice off you or look for training or anything like that, is there anywhere where they can find you? Yeah. Instagram is the easiest place. I'm not very, I don't post an awful lot.

You've enough things going on. Yeah, yeah, because that's like, I always get a lot of grief about that. I don't from Emma because obviously she posts an awful lot. That's her job. She's on the bar with that, yeah. She is, I give lots of credit for that. But yeah, just sit me up on Instagram.

Yeah, I'll leave show notes, links and stuff like that as well. If anyone wants to reach out, of course they can. Sammy, thanks a million for today. Oh, thank you, Carl. Appreciate it. Thanks for watching. If you like that episode and you want to see more content like this, make sure you're subscribed and I'll see you on the next one.