The Uneducated PT Podcast - Shane Walsh Habits, Beliefs & Behaviours Around Food

Episode Date: August 25, 2023

In this episode we speak to Women's fat loss expert Shane Walsh. Shane is a Fully Qualified Nutritionist who specialises in working with females and educating them on how to fuel their body and move away from 1,200 calorie diets once and for all.Shane's InstagramShane's Podcast Karl's InstagramApplication for coaching on the School Of Fitness Programme

Hello and welcome to the uneducated PT podcast with me, your host, Carlo Rourke. The goal of this podcast is to bring on interest and knowledgeable people from all walks of life, learn a little something from each conversation and for you, the listener, just learn something from each episode. So don't forget to subscribe to the channel, press the box below, show some support, and I'll see you on the next episode. Shane, welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much, Carl. Thanks for having me.

Round two. Round two. For anyone who doesn't know you, can you just explain a little bit about what you do? Yeah, so I'm Shane Walsh. I'm the owner of Shane Walsh Fitness. I've been in the industry for about five and a half years, nearly six years at this stage. So I have a little bit of like an X Factor story. So in 2017, I got very ill, got blood clots and fluid on my lungs. I was in recruitment and sales before that body was just like, no, you need to give up something. So it fell into a really, really bad place. Kind of starting to get a bit fitter and healthier. Went travelling, found myself, shaved the head, become a monk. And then, and then, Where did you travel? Asia. Asia, yeah. Yeah, the usual.

Everyone finds themselves in Asia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I was over there, I started doing, like, I was training myself over there, and people were kind of jumping in on the sessions. Yeah. So I actually booked my PT course in the airport in Hanoi on the way home. No way.

And then started doing the courses, and since then, just kind of going from that. So did you not have a background and fitness before this? I had never set foot in the gym before I was 29. So I used to play football up until about 23, and then... Which we spoke about. Yeah, off camera. We won't talk about.

And then I just completely stopped and literally found the sessions. Literally went on the piss all the time and literally wrong ladder against the wrong wall. And then just kind of fend myself, should they say, and definitely a lot happier now doing this. It's great. It's a very rewarding job. It can be stressful, but it's quite rewarding. Do you find that that makes you more empathetic and relatable to the type of clients you work with that,

you know, you didn't, you weren't. like in a fitness background before. It was something that you found later on. Yeah, I'd like to think so. I think the bluntness as well comes from that kind as well. It's kind of like you need to kind of basically look after yourself and kind of basically sort of your mental health and stuff. I'd be quite a big advocate on that because I would have a day of therapy.

I wouldn't be on this conversation with you right now. So I think the massive thing for that was for me was being able to hold a conversation with someone and actually understand them because it definitely helped me understand myself but it also helped them to understand themselves and if you understand your client or who's sitting in front of you it's a hell of a lot easier to kind of manage expectations yeah so what kind of clients do you work with like what are the kind of struggles that they have and that you help them with through your time with them yeah so mainly it's kind of people who've come from

the good old sliming clubs a yo-yo diet and backgrounds emotional eating stress eating PCOS perimenopause menopause haj a I only really coach women. I haven't coached a man in probably about 18 months or two years. Men don't listen. I love that as well, yeah. We do not listen as a gender. Why do you think that is?

Do you think that's an ego thing? That's 100% ego. Because if you think about it, like, if you saw a lad in the gym right now, what's the thing they want to do? They want to lift heavy. Get jacked. And then you're kind of like, yeah, we probably need to kind of lose a little bit to kind put the muscle back on.

They're like, no, I just want to get jacked and fill out the t-shirt and get the disco muscles. So we've all been there. Yeah. I always say about lads and women, like the differences between them is that lads need to reduce their weight in half and women need to double it in weight because women are very cautious in terms of what they do and then lads are very kind of ego. Rash. Yeah, I think as I was talking to someone yesterday and they're kind of like, they were meant to be going for a job entry. They wouldn't go for it because of self-confidence.

And they're like, because of what other people are thinking. But a male would have no problem going for the job because they'd be like, let's just go for it. Yeah. It's quite mad how the confidence that was and the belief systems for the two different genders and other or other genders and different sexual orientations, but the main two would be they're very, very different reactions they have. And also even in terms of taking on advice as well, I think, like, my experience with training men, they'll listen to what you say, they'll agree with it and then they'll go and do their own take, whereas women will take your advice on board and actually implement it. 100%. There's no one else to say to that.

It's the truth. Okay, so from there, what I want to do is I want to go into a couple of quotes from you that I really enjoyed. And I want to just go into a little bit more context in terms of them from speaking on behalf of the type of clients that you work with. So something you said was one of the biggest things when it comes to those who get their fat loss results versus those who don't is that the ones who get the result except that good enough is better than giving up, all right? So my question to you is

how do we coach people out of this perfectionist mindset that they've acquired over time that you're actually speaking about? So perfection can aid us and perfection can not aid us. It can almost paralyze us from doing anything. And I think it can be really, really multifaceted

in the fact that it can be from trauma It could be from sexual abuse. It can be from parents belittling people or bullying or some sort of trauma or grief in their lives. So often it's a protective tool that people use as a fear of judgment from others. So if we can't control other people are thinking, what's one way we can control it?

We can go inwards and do nothing about it. So often when people are thinking about perfection around food, food isn't the issue. It's never the issue. It's always how we're feeling about ourselves that projected onto it. Think of wording's like, I've been good today or I've been bad today. It's like, oh, you haven't been good because you had a salad and you haven't been bad because you had carbs.

You're eating food. Food is food. Food is fuel. Food is great. But the whole thing with perfection is it's based off this flaw that you have to be perfect all the time. You're not allowed mistakes or make mistakes. So it's kind of like it's the inability to accept that you're actually human. And I think with food, there's times you're going to overeat.

There's times you're going to stress these. There's times you're going to emotional at least. It's what makes you human and being aware of that. But too many people are like, well, if I emotionally eat, I'm weak, I shouldn't be doing this. I shouldn't be doing this. I've failed. And then they're kind of like, no, I'm shutting off.

And then I go completely inward bound and then don't know how to deal with it. Don't want to deal with it. But I don't think a lot of people have the skill set because I've been taught from childhood. Like Ireland has been like a quite a suppressed society for a long time. Like just get on with this. if someone's talking about their feelings like, oh, they're soft. That's been in Ireland for a very long time.

I think the old school mentality is changing. So people haven't been taught actually how to deal with their feelings and deal with how they're feeling about themselves. And it's often projected onto the food. It's that fear of judgment, fear of failure, fear of success, which I don't think a lot of people realize. They don't feel they're worthy of getting the results they're looking for. What makes Carl more worthy to have success at his podcast

or his football than anyone else? It's just self-belief. Yeah, I think belief is kind of one of these things that's kind of thrown around or whatever whatever it may be but I think the only way you actually get belief in yourself is from actually doing something. Yeah. And I think yes, you will fall. I've fallen many times. I've fallen many times doing the work that I do. There's things, your launch and that things don't go well, but it's kind of like yeah, it's kind of there's feedback there for you as well. But in the first thing you need to do is try and gain awareness of why you, what's that tool

protecting you from that awareness to what's that food doing for you why are you giving it away why is it giving that control mechanism away why is it so important for you to be accepted why is so important for you to be validated you're relying on other people to do something that you can do for you and that's it's it's hard to accept it's hard to I would recommend everyone go to therapy as one of the things we said to talk yesterday aiming for good enough so one of the exercise I always get to do my clients is right out a good a good enough week. Yeah. I write out a perfect week with training and nutrition. And often what happens

is the perfectionists who would identify as a perfectionist would be very have an awful lot in the good enough category. It would be like, right, all my water, all my veggies, all my walks, all my steps, etc, etc. And then in the perfect thing, another layer on top of that. But then you kind of like, well, I asked them a question. It's like, well, do you notice something about the good enough? And they're like, yeah, there's a lot there. It's like, yeah, there's a lot that can go wrong. So break it down even further. But what's good enough for you? well, I have three meals, two, three snacks a day, and I go for a walk three times a week.

And they're kind of like, you can almost see the shoulders drop. It's like, it's that easy. It's like, it's a lot easier doing it that way than the way you're putting pressure on yourself to do it. Aiming for, if you want to have meals out and drinks out, aiming for a weekly calorie average. So say if you've got your target, like 2,000 calories a day, think of it like money.

You've got seven days in a week, that's 14,000 calories in a week. Break it down. If you overspend by 3,000 calories eating on a Saturday and Sunday, That's 6,000, 6,000, 14,000 is 8,000. It's quick maths. My brain, sure. Yeah, the matrix.

See, we've got 8,000 calories left for the rest of the week. So you can have that wiggle room of those meals out and still get to your goal if you aim for that good enough mentality of spreading it out across the week. Too many people are focused on one meal. It's literally impossible for you to have gained weight or to gain fat, should they say, in one meal. Even if you had 10,000 calories, which is a lot of calories, it's four dominoes, medium dominoes pizzas. That's a lot of food. It's literally impossible for you to gain one pound of fat.

And there's research showing that by Bill Campbell, loads or loads of research. Would the weight go up? Yes, but weight the scales doesn't measure fat loss. Scales measures weight loss. So there's two different parameters and two different metrics. The other thing you could do is just do something that's going to help you. I know today, I had a good bit of food yesterday,

so all I'm doing today is going to go for a walk. Yeah. That's all I'm doing today. Get my food shop in, go for a walk. That's all I'm doing, happy with that. Then allowing yourself to make those mistakes. If you look at right, what's good enough for you, what's coming up ahead of you for the week, being realistic with your expectations. So you know I've got a busy work week. The kids are going back to school. You've got all the school uniforms and stuff. You're kind of like, right, take a step back. What's good enough for me this week? I am literally just going to get a food shop in and I'm going to go to the gym twice. That's a good enough week. And that's going to bring you closer than this whole thing of, I'm doing nothing. and if you can bring that awareness, aim for good enough,

weekly calorie average, just doing something, I think it's a hell of a lot easier to get rid of that perfection mentality. Yeah, I think a lot of it is, especially with coaching fat loss, is managing their expectations as well. It's a hard thing to do. Yeah. And what I've noticed even with coaching people is that, like, you can tell them all this and you can tell them not to feel guilty around their food decisions,

but again, they'll still probably do it then again next week and you have to keep on re-emphasising, re-emphasising, and re-emphasising it, and it takes a long time for this to kind of, for the penny to drop almost. Yeah, because the food guilt element has been taught, it's that fear of judgment again. If you're a kid and you've kind of like,

you've been told to finish a plate of food all your life. Yeah, and then you're kind of like, cleaner plate mentality. Basically. And then all of a sudden you're kind of like, no, hang on, I'm trying to work on when I'm full. You're going to, you're going to still going to eat the odd time when it's the whole plate,

like Christmas dinner kind of feeling. There's times like that. we all do it. But it's kind of reducing the times that you do it and understanding why you do it. So you stress eating. Are you emotionally, are you trying to numb yourself with food?

Because food isn't the issue, as I said already. Well, that goes back to the perfectionist mindset that you spoke about. It's like, okay, it's not like you're never going to feel guilty around food again, but the idea is that we make sure that that's less and less. Or you're not going to, you're still going to emotionally eat.

Like, I still emotionally, you probably still emotionally, but it's less. and less and less. But also emotionally eat is a positive thing too. Like birthdays, Christmas, Easter, like there's, it's not only, it's only, not only negative, but I think a lot of people with food guilt, food guilt means who've done something wrong. Yeah. And the overarching element of shame, I am a bad person for doing this. I kind of like, no, Vladimir Putin's a bad person. You're not a bad person for having that extra cake last night. Yeah, you didn't invade your

crane. Exactly. Exactly. Just invaded the price. I don't know I'm trying to take the piss out of something like, I'm trying to like be little as much as possible. It's it's trying to create perspective to someone who's wrapped up in their head. Perspective is huge when it comes to the element of food because I don't think, I think a lot of people don't necessarily have a weight loss issue. They have a perspective issue. And that's, I know there's other elements with obesity and stuff like that.

I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the element of when people, when emotions get very, very high, they lose all perspective and they go very, very quick to the quick fix. rather than taking a step back and saying, taking a big deep breath in, right, what can I do here? Is this food going to solve this problem? If the problem wasn't food, food's not going to solve it. Yeah.

And that's something that I've kind of figured out over the last year or two is that like coaching isn't about giving some of the calorie goal or a step goal. It's about regulating their emotions, essentially. It is, yeah. You're kind of part-time therapist while staying in your lane. It's kind of like not being afraid to kind of outsource your help to someone else. because I think I've got clients at a minute who are working with therapists in the background

and it's not being, not having that ego because it is an ego driven industry. I can do everything. You have to stay in your lane and I know that's something that we're going to be talking about later on but I think the perspective thing is a massive, massive thing. A second quote that I wanted to talk about

and I'm just going to put this on you, I apologize for that. So, if the cost of your dream body comes at the expense of your relationship with food or your mental health, I would strongly question, is that the right approach for you? So my question is, how can we distinguish between

what's the right approach and the wrong approach when it comes to weight loss? Yeah, so I would often say to clients, the dream body that you probably want is going to weigh a lot more than you think. And they're kind of like, what do you mean? It's kind of like, well,

when you felt more confident in your clothes, what weight were you? Like, I have no idea. There's the answer. They're like, the weight thing, is this measure that people will use, I think particularly for people that have come from the Sliming Club backgrounds

because Karen puts you up on a step and shames you for not going down on the scales and then blames weights for doing it's like, no, no, no, the approach is the issue. So with the dream body, it's kind of like it's distinguishing what the best approach is for you and what's the wrong approach. I would always say, right,

I would always ask the questions to kind of clients, is right, will this approach allow you to enjoy your weekends? And that I'd be like, so if we're talking about the restrictive approach, they would like probably no. Will this approach restrict food groups? Yes, it'll probably be the carbs, fats, sugars, sweeteners. It's like, well, what's left?

Can you stick to it longer than a week? And they'll probably say no. Does it impact your relationship with food? And they'll probably, this will be the question that we kind of struggle with, they'll kind of think about it a little bit more. And they'll probably say yes. Do you have food guilt?

And they'll probably say yes. And does it work on your beliefs, habits, or behaviors? And they'll probably say no. So none of those answers have been positive. So the approach that most people would go, was that restrictive mentality, but a lot of people are addicted to that restriction because it's all they know,

and it's caused by like, kind of like the mind is chaotic. So like if you think about it, like your thoughts can go this way, one second, over this second, it doesn't know how to kind of compartmentalise it. And then food is the one that kind of comes in, we latch onto a feeling, we latch onto a story, we latch onto a belief. So if we worked on the habits, beliefs, behaviors,

it would be a hell of a lot better than just going for another quick fix. The quick fix is actually make the journey longer. Yeah. It's the irony of it. It's kind of like, well, I'm just going to do an eight-week shred and cut out all carbs. It's like, yeah, you may look great.

And you're doing that for the next 10 years. Yeah, it's kind of like if you're always on a diet, you're doing something wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the, and that's the thing. Like, the yo-yo dieting thing, it is addicted to that restriction. But people would say it's all I know, it's the only thing I've ever done. It's like, but what have you done to address it?

What have you changed to actually address the actual issue? Because the food isn't the issue. It's kind of saying, well, I don't deserve to have these foods. It's kind of like, when people, actually step up and kind of actually acknowledge that I have that awareness, it does take a lot of time to get to it. But it's also being clear on your values. You mentioned the food guilt thing earlier. People aren't clear on what they actually value. And values can change over time. It's kind of like I kind of break the values into like a five F's. Yeah. It's fitness, fun, family, focus. And then

you've got finance. So you rank them in one to five of order. And most people would kind of get to kind of fitness and health will be number three and they wonder why they're not prioritising as much as they should. Family and friends is normally number one. They're kind of like, that's why all their actions are kind of bringing the kids to GAA or soccer. And then they're probably number two

is probably somewhere in the middle of either kind of finance or kind of mental health element of it. And then they're kind of wondering why the fitness and health isn't being looked after. It's lower rank. But if you can say to themselves, like, so your priorities, fitness and health number three but you want them to be number one so what do we need to get it to go up or a food fitness

and health you're kind of like well i enjoy having fun is number two your meals out are important to you let's try and work an approach that you get to have your odd session with your mates or your meals out with your mates and i'll teach you how to do that that will help to get them to accept that it's actually okay to have that more food the odd time but if it's the constant mechanism where food is your only reward food isn't the issue your lack of reward system is the issue so it's it's not the decision but the context around the decision like i would say like a core value of mine would probably be social connection so you know whether that's you know spending time with my family or spending time with my friends and like i was watching the football last night where we're five of my

mates and we ordered the dominoes and we sat there and watch them like i enjoyed every minute of it like so for me like the context around that decision because social connection and eating around friends is important to me. That was the right decision. But then for me to just get a dominoes on a Wednesday because I forgot to eat all day and I haven't planned my day and it was a pure reactive decision.

For me then I would be guilty about that but that was the wrong decision for me because that wasn't living in line with my values. But it was the wrong decision for you or was it a short-term solution? Short-term solution. Yeah, so I don't think it's a wrong decision. I just think it was the decision in that moment

to get through that moment. Yeah. But if it's happening more often or not, If it's happening once every so often, it would happen. If it's leading to destructive behaviours or you not feeling the way you want to feel, then there's a disconnect there somehow.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, more of that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, brilliant. And then the third quote that I wanted to read out here, which I really liked was, the more you focus on exercise and eating as a way to lose weight, the longer it will take.

The more you focus on mindset and behavior, the less time it will take. And obviously, you've expanded on that a little bit, today as well anyway yeah so I kind of I'm talking about this kind of stuff with clients it's kind of like I call it like the 973 weight loss strategy or 97 hyphen yeah to weight throws weight loss strategy it's kind of like most people when they're trying to lose weight what's the first thing they do they increase their exercise yeah increase exercise and reduce and try to restricts

cut out all food just survive on air yeah yeah so yeah I think when people are that the one thing they focus on is that exercise thing and that's the 3% that has about 3 of 100% of the total thing that we should be focusing on. But if you look at your habits, your behaviors, your food, all that kind of stuff, that's more in line with the 97%. So people are only focused, like we actually don't burn as many calories as people think. If you see exercise away burning calories, there's other things that play. So if you focus on the behaviors, the habits, belief systems,

what you actually need to do, your coping mechanisms, they're the bits that will get you long-lasting results. And long-lasting results to you will be different to long-lasting results. different to long-lasting results for me and it'll be different for Karen to Tara it will be very very different to everyone else if you drop food guilt for the first time ever and you could be able to that could be someone's mecca and then it could be for someone else it's like right it's doing a hundred kg hit thrust everyone has very very different things but a lot of people will focus just

on the training we don't understand why we actually do do things we don't understand why we use food as the crutch we don't like that awareness piece again and a lot of people have this belief system that they say things like I'm an emotional leader or it's like no you're not an emotional leader you're someone who eats emotionally and that disconnect again disassociates yourself from the actual story because if you say I'm an emotional leader you're gonna act like that yeah and then you're kind of like well you're not surprised when it happens oh I'm always like this this is a perfectionist kind of like yeah yeah but you're not a

perfectionist you're someone who has a perfectionist mentality or perfectionist tendencies but it's not on your passport you don't go into immigration each time you're like perfection's checking it. It's not how it works. So it's a 97 weight loss strat. 973 weight loss thing is kind of like what I would kind of say to people. It's like focus on maybe becoming a little bit more process based. Because people are like, well, I want to lose like 6KG.

It's like, well, what do you need to get to do there? Or what do you to get there? People are like, well, I need to increase my exercise. No, no, you probably need to say, right, let's get more regular meals. Because most people, I always find that, like, I know I did this for you. was you didn't eat all day because you're on the go and then you're wondering why

your head's in the press yeah starving and then you can't stop you and you can't you just find that's why a lot of people think that they're addicted to sugar isn't it because they over restrict all throughout the day

and then when they get to oppress like yeah there's a lot people think there are a lot to a lot of things I think people are addicted to their own stories but the sugar thing is like you're 100% not addicted to sugar you're not addicted to sweetness

you're not there's any of this. It's generally if you're getting sugar cravings, it could be your time of the month. It could be... But you can understand why people would feel like they are like that because if you haven't had all day, if you've been on this restrictive diet and then you get to the end of the day

and you're sitting there and you're a little bit bored and you go to press to have one biscuit and then you have the second and then the third and you feel like you've no willpower to stop but it's because you've been on this restrictive diet where you haven't consumed enough calories. Or you haven't looked after yourself. You haven't prioritised yourself.

There are days, like I know yesterday, it was one of those days that was all over the place. But I was kind of like, right, before I leave to go to the event, I was like, I need to get a pretty decent breakfast in, brought some snacks with me. But that might seem too simple for some people. And then we're kind of like, no, no, no, I need to have my protein yoga. I need to have my protein shake.

I need to have X, Y, Z. No, no, no, just bring some fruit in a protein bar in the car. And then get something when you're... And I was kind of like, I was like, I was like, three or half to you by the time I was leaving. It's kind of like, right. I'm not going to be getting home to probably close to like

half five, six o'clock here so I'm going to have to get something before I leave. Otherwise I probably would have fallen asleep at the wheel. So it's having that awareness of what's going to work. Well, that's what I was going to say.

It's you checking in on yourself and being aware, but where a lot of people they'll go through the day not pausing to think that, oh, I should... The pause is the big, big thing. Pause is a big big thing.

I think if you think about like you were watching a match yesterday with your mates, I guarantee you probably weren't present with your hand to mouth, hand to mouth. Shout out to that. Yeah, yeah.

Shatine at Liverpool, I'd say. Yeah, well, I don't blame you. As a United fan, I was watching the United match with five United fans as well, which is... Yeah, not, I was flicking between the rugby and the Ireland match. But you're right, yeah, I was... Hand to mate.

So most people are like, they're distracted while they're doing something. They're on their phones, while they're having lunch, they're working from their desk. But if you actually... Does there disconnect between food and you? If you say to yourself, right, what's the next one going to do for me that the last one didn't.

The one that helps me in the evenings is, am I hungry enough for fruit? I've never met anyone that's hungry enough for fruit. Fruits, and sometimes I'll have the fruit, like, or I'll probably have the fruit. I'll be like, right, I'm still hungry. Then I'll get the bar. But I'm still getting the fruit in.

Yeah, yeah. Well, what do you think is the difference between being like, okay, I know that I'm, I don't want the fruit, so I know that I'm not hungry, but I still want the chocolate bar but I also am trying to stick within my calories or make better food decisions

what would be your approach for a client that would you be like okay have the bar but just be mindful when you're having it I'd be kind of like right are you gonna I'd be kind of say right if you're hung if you want the bar half the bar there's nothing wrong with that

if someone's counting calories and maybe enter in your calories into the nap that they before the night before, then you can see right, I've got 300 calories left from a cup of tea, when I get to chill out with my partner in the evenings, having my chocolate bar, and I'm able to do it that way.

If it's a case, it's the only thing that you're having, or it's the only mechanism that you're having, it's a little bit different, and then it's kind of like, well, probably need a better reward system. And some people say, like, I want that sweet thing after dinner, but that's a memory that you have with when you're a kid.

I know brown bread is my thing, it reminds me with my granny. So that smell, whenever possible, pass the bakery, I'm like, get me in. Yeah. It's just take my money. Yeah. But people have this sweeties like, yeah, that's okay. But you don't, maybe not buy the big share bag or might not buy the multi-packs. Maybe just get like, I used to kind of like the small whispers or the small bars kind of like, I get one of those and check in and say, right, do I need another one? Sometimes they do.

I check in, I have I eaten enough days? Probably not. Am I tired from? Do they drink enough water? Am I tired? Am I stressed? Am I anxious? I'm lonely? check it in yourself and kind of saying, right, what's actually going on with myself? And some people kind of like, they don't know what's going on or they know what's going on. And they're kind of like, well, this is going to fix this short term, but I'm going to do it anyway.

But I'm kind of like, well, if you've done it every other time and it hasn't fixed the problem, why do we continue to use that mechanism? It's kind of like, because it's the only thing they know is normally the answer. It's kind of like, well, if you have that pause. So I use, like, sometimes with clients who are trying to work on emotionally eating at the food and mood journal.

So they write in what time they're having their food and where they're having it. And more often than that, the spot of trend after about a week is like all the foods in the evenings, they haven't eaten enough during the day, or they're having their foods in the living room watching TV. And you're kind of like, right, let's set a rule, we're having food at the kitchen. But sometimes people can find that another way of kind of like no one's in the kitchen, so I'm going to eat that a little bit more because of that secret eating thing they may have. So it is multifaceted and aware that you're understanding why people work. but if you have three meals, two or three snacks a day,

more often than not, you're not going to be. You'll be fine. Yeah. Yeah. And no one craves a chocolate bar first thing in the morning. It's usually in the evenings where you associate with that kind of. Yeah, and sometimes what can happen,

say if you're like, oh, I'm craving chocolate or whatever, it's kind of like maybe having the bar earlier in the day can break that cycle of in the evenings where it's less likely. People like, well, I don't feel like it then, but why do you feel like it in the evenings? Oh, it's too early. It's like, try it and see. you still want it he may still want it and it's okay to have it it might be just kind of

sometimes it can be danger in the dose yeah yeah that's that's usually what it is because it's like you can have anything but if you have too much of anything there's probably going to be a negative to it yeah yeah too much of a good thing yeah it's nothing to is I wanted to moving on from from fat loss I wanted to talk to you a little bit and and get your take on the fitness industry because that's just something I wanted to pick your head on and because obviously we've spent before about women's health we spoke about fat loss so I wanted to I wanted to get your take on this because I thought it would be interesting and so a question for

you would be what is one toxic aspect of the fitness industry that you feel damages the well-being of the clients that you coach misinformation yeah I know there's call out I don't like call that culture either I know like people trying to call out the bigots that are doing misinformation but if you're looking on social media and you have someone that is saying there's like a certain thing about foods or sweeteners are bad or sweeteners or X Y or Z that seems to be the one in the media at the minute and it's has a direct has like a certainty on a food it's never the answer food always has

context food always has there's always basis for like the research is changing on sweetness because there's such a new thing to us and most of the research has been done on rats I think the date the dosage of thing is like if you're I think it's like 18 or 20 or 30 even. I can't remember which numbers they are, but maybe 30 Diet Coke or Coke zeros a day. Then they may have like the minimalist. I probably shouldn't be having 30 diacoggs a day. Yeah, kind of like there's a bigger issue around 30 Diet Coke today.

Yeah, yeah. Your tea are a bit of the following. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I wouldn't worry about it. But I always have, I also find the same people that are worrying about sweeteners are the ones that are drinking a lot in the weekends or doing Coke on the Jacks. So that's kind of like Yeah Which one's worse Well I think there was a thing As like

A spar time It was like a I think something too carcinogenic And everyone's like Oh so you can't have That means Diet Coke's bad And just like that And I think like iPhones were put in the same category

And aloeira is more carcinogenic That's what's when it's And people are running aloeira on their kids Yeah Yeah So like So it's just people

Not understanding What's going on But yeah people are looking for like people we're fighting against labels all day every day yeah and people are trying to pigeonhole a food and emotionally attached to to go to a tribe food and nutrition is really really tribal i think i heard a quote recently it's like if being a kind of like a PT is quite easy being nutritionist is difficult because you're fighting all the bits yeah from like the one that annoys me is the carbs yeah yeah i'd be like we couldn't play football without carbs no no couldn't

You can't try without carbs. No. And like, if I actually shot a picture to people of, like, how many carbs your brain needs to function on a daily basis, it's probably about a third of a loaf of bread. Yeah. And people are like, I can't have bread. I'm like, you can't.

Yeah. And like carbs is like, it's, it's, it's, it's so many different things as well. But when people think about carbs, they just think about like, you know, pasta and bread and say, I'm going to restrict that. Like, are you not going to have vegetables either? Oh yeah, I'm going to have vegetables.

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think about call out culture? because like I have I have two two thoughts on it one is like people like Lane Norton is really good at it and like I've probably learned a lot from him and stuff like that in terms of him calling out people like you know Carnivore MD and stuff like that but at the same hand I know that we like call out culture like when you when you call someone out where you call someone an idiot or something like that like they're

not going to change their view they're just going to dig their heels further into the ground and and they're not going to change their stance with it so like there's this element of like oh well at least they're you know debunking nutritional myths but then there's also this other point that well the people who are giving out harmful advice they're not going to change their mind if if you're calling them out in a certain way yeah but i think it is where tends to go a little bit left field is i've no problem people calling people out for misinformation it's when it gets personal yeah so it's calling out the idea and not the person yeah and because i know i think there was jason fun dr jason

Fung, or no, not Jason Fung, there was another guy, Gilesio, was on Diary of a CEO, and he was getting so much criticism for, like, I think it was like, calories don't matter, but it was like, that edit on that video, it's click, click, bit, it's click bait, but if you actually listen to the episode, which most people don't. Yeah, it's kind of like, he's actually correct in what he says. And he was talking about the beastie and stuff, but people went after him for his appearance of like, oh, he looks a certain way or he looks on. unhealthy and you're kind of like that has nothing to do with what he's trying to say. With his information, yeah.

So it's kind of when it gets a bit personal, then I draw the line. But if it's misinformation, calling that out. But also, that person, it's kind of like Liver King. Liver King got fined out. Yeah. But that doesn't mean he's a bad person. No. It means that maybe there was something going on for him internally that he felt that he

needed to keep that. And if you listen to the episode of Diary CEO again, with him, there's a lot of shit going on in his life. Yeah. Yeah. So everyone has a story, everyone has a reason. If they're making, if they know they're wrong and they're still making money off it, then that's different. Yeah.

I think with Liver King, it was like, like, he got so big that the lie probably got bigger and bigger. It was hard to turn, turn back from what he was saying then, do you know what I mean? Yeah, you're kind of too far in. Yeah. And you've done how to get out of it. Yeah, because that's going to happen with kind of chronic liars and stuff like that. You see it all the time with people who are committing crimes and fraud and stuff. They kind of get too caught into it.

And they kind of crave that attention. I think there's one of these kind of podcasts. Something about Make a Wish or something like that. And the person claimed that their daughter had cancer, everything. And like one direction were even involved, giving money to this charity and stuff. But it turned out, the mom wasn't very very very. very well and end up like the kid ended up passing away. The kid didn't have cancer at all.

It was mental. But the kid still passed away. Kid passed away but didn't have cancer. The mom, I was actually like keeping her kind of like away from society, away from her family and was feeding her the drugs that she didn't need. She was giving her certain drugs because she wasn't well and she was trying to control her. Like the other two daughters were fond. But this daughter was kind of like it was almost the mom reliving her youth and was like she was caught in that state of mind. Yeah. It's one of the most messed up podcasts I've ever listened. I'll send you.

What is it called? I'll try and find it. I'll have a look at and pick up the phone. Try said me that. Okay. Another I think I wanted to ask you about is do you think over the course of your career working in the fitness industry that we're making strives forward or do you think that we're going backwards in terms of helping the general public? I'd like to hope that we're making strides. a bit of me thinks that we're going backwards because I think people are so go on to TikTok, go on to

social media for their information and everyone, there's so much information out there and people will go for the clickest headline, clickest clickbait and be like, right, this is what I need to believe, this is what someone has said. Like I remember having a conversation with someone

they were talking about autophagy and they were kind of asking for your advice and I was like, in my head I was like, I know you're not going to listen to me. me I just know it. So I was like, right, here's a, here's a link to something on autophagy. And I'm going to try it anyway. I was like, work away, try it. And then I, and sometimes people need to go through it and experience it before they realize. They're talking about autophagy and intimate fasting and stuff like that. And I was kind of like, well, you do know as soon as you

start to eat again, you've broken atopathy. And she's like, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's kind of, It's, there's a lot of information, a lot of these things. It's like, oh, if your diet works, then why did you stop down it? Yeah. With any diet. Yeah, I also think that like your diet doesn't necessarily need a name. No, no.

I think a lot of people would. If it does have a name, that's probably a problem with it. Yeah, and if it works for you. Yeah, that's fair. Great. If it doesn't impact your relationship, great, if it doesn't impact your life. But the problem is people, like, I always get a lot of people come and put it for me.

Yeah, it works for me. But now it doesn't work for me. Oh, it worked for me? I lost 5KG and now it put on 10. That hasn't worked for you. So it hasn't worked for you. It worked for a short term. All diets work.

Yeah. But it's kind of like... That's the problem. Yeah. All diets work. Yeah. And people say, I keep failing diets. No, you don't keep failing diets.

The approach keeps failing you. That's the issue. What is one thing in the industry that you would change if you could? Get rid of slimming clubs. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's probably... For the type of clientele that you work with, that's probably the...

I would love how it leadership, but I wouldn't have a business without it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like the union, you know, one for the other system. Yeah. Yeah, I just feel like, do you think there as, do you think they negatively impact the public

as much now as they did a couple of years ago? In terms of, like, do you think people are more aware of the, of the, certain generation are more aware? Yeah. If you're of a certain age, I still think. Yeah, well, it is a generational thing. isn't it even with dioculture in general yeah i think if you're of a certain age which i don't want to

bracket it in it's probably around kind of like the 40s and 50s and 60s age where you're kind of probably still believing it's the thing but also if you look i think one of them have bought the uh weight loss drug the obesity drug yeah wegglevy i think it would and i'm not i'm not pro or anti the drug i think it's context it works it shuts down your hunger uh presses your hunger completely, the research will show it's great. But I think some people need it. Some people don't need it. And it's kind of like, well, it may not be needs to be pushed on the people that don't.

It's kind of be like the reason we're doing it, they may be, you may think they're doing it for their good of their health, but they think it's ultimately they see that they can make profit out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Like the fitness industry in general, a lot of it is just profit based or profit motivation. It's getting found out a little bit. I think a lot of people are finding good people.

But also I also find that a lot of people who are in the fitness industry from my own experience have their own issues with food. And they get pushed onto people, which isn't fair. And people can impact relationship with food. It can impact relationship with mental health. I've had clients come from clients, from coaches, should I say, who have lost their mental cycles. I'm kind of like, there's a responsibility.

Like, it's all well and good, getting the payments getting all the money and stuff like that but there's a little bit of kind of like there's no difference between that person that ever think yeah well you think is that would that be one another thing that you would change out of fitness industry the fact that a lot of these clients go to that type of person because they see them you know body fat 13% or 3% and like lean dehydrated starved themselves has a terrible relationship with food but like the client that you work with probably doesn't even know what a good relationship with field looks like in the first place no and I think it is it's people it's on a good relationship with food is very

different for everyone I think people will be like oh that person looks like that so I want they they did this approach to look like this and if I get to that I'll be happy but you don't know what they've done to it you don't know what they're taking you don't know what they're doing and I think sometimes we can get buy into what the someone looks like first rather than actually looking at right is this approach for me because Weight loss is an emotional thing. It comes back to that control thing. The weight that we have or we are

is often linked to control. It's controlling what other people think of us. We can't control that, but we can't try to control our food. We can't try to control what our weight is. And it's often very much linked to validation, acceptance, peace of mind, being loved, being cared, being accepted. It's kind of like, you know, they're all great from other people, but what do you want?

Well, a lot of people think that, okay, well, if I look like them or if I reach a certain body weight, then I'll be happy, then I'll, you know, have the life I live, then I'll be content. And they put themselves through extremes to get there just to realize that they're still not content.

Well, I've been 63 kilos, and I've also been nearly 90 kilos. I'm a hell of a lot happier. I don't know idea what they weigh, I can guess. Yeah. But it's somewhere in a... Well, that's kind of, that's the whole point that you don't know,

because I literally couldn't give less of a shit. I don't even own a scale. And it's not from running away from it. I literally just couldn't be arsed. I'll know how I feel in my clothes. And my goal has definitely changed since I went back playing football. It's like, right, am I actually able to manage my asthma?

Yeah. I'm being able to be one of the fittest odds in the team. And I'm able to still chase after people and being able to be okay and recover after it. Not be bed down for seven days because your body's taken for running around. Well, it still happens. That's going to get worse.

Back to season next week. Can't wait. On the massage bed table. Physios. Keeping physios in business. But it's like you said, it's like, okay, this is the outcome that you want, but can we find a way that you actually enjoy the process and be process-oriented where, you know, we're actually enjoying what we're doing, whether it's, you know, hip-trust on 100 kilos

or getting back out playing football or, you know, being fit enough to go for a hike with your family or whatever it is. It's like enjoying the now rather than. I'll be happy when I get to this goal weight. But you won't be happy. No. Because it's not about the weight. Yeah.

It's about how you're looking. You don't go into a shop, into Zara, and go, can I have a size 70 kilos, please? Yeah, yeah. You go into size by how you look and feel. Like, obviously, sometimes it can impact your mood when you're going into a medium rather than a small or a large rather than a medium.

But Zara is tight clothes like. It's, like, there are other shops that you can go into. Yeah. Yeah, if you're not a small there, just go to another shop. Exactly. Spend your money elsewhere. For our other shops. Everyone.

Moving on from that, I want to talk to you a little bit about coaching philosophy and stuff like that. So what's one thing you know now that you wish you knew when you started coaching? When I first started, after I coming out of my course, I came out of it more confused. I knew foal going into the course and I came out knowing full call. it was more was a football in terms of it was just too much information to take in at the beginning

yeah like there was you come out of and you're kind of like you've got all this information but no practical element to it it's kind of like oh here's those a theory on what a one RPE or a two PrEPs look like

but you're kind of like that's not practical to Jane and Mary who have never had yeah it's none of that the big thing I would say is I didn't know this now but I didn't know about the impact mental cycle had yeah and now I talk about it too much a question actually I wanted to ask about what was because I I did a post a girl asked me on a story and she asked me about menopause and weight loss and

obviously I a lot of times I refer back to the previous podcast that we did together and stuff like that and I would follow a lot of your stuff in terms of women's health for any kind of information do you get them Do you get a lot or some women who would, like, I know most of the women that you coach or who follow you, a lot of, most of them appreciate the information that you give out, but do you ever get, like, that one percent or like, oh, he's just mansplaining, don't listen to him.

Yeah, so I, for the very, very brief time I went on to TikTok, I put up the post. It's the Wild Weston there. Oh, fucking hell, idiots. So I put up a post about, like, the different stages. And I, um, I did. stages of a cycle I put on some video it's like writing on a piece of paper and it was fast forward and you talk about all that and then I got I'd say about ten comments in the space of half an error saying you can't be explained that seems to be about textbook could answer you never understand me and I was kind of one of them just wouldn't let it go and I was kind of like I bit and I bit and I bit it's like okay so is the issue that I am a male or is the issue the information she goes it's because you're a man it's like okay why am I the issue and she goes I was told what to do as a kid okay so that's the issue it's not me and she goes yeah apologies yeah i was also with

the menopause one i put up was like oh can you lose weight around pari menopause and i woke up the next morning by 600 extra followers so there was a doctor over in the states who saw the post and she was like pt's this pt from ireland you should avoid what are you saying completely and then a paramanopause expert amanda thib she kind of shed it out and did a big video and she's like he said exactly what the actual information is. The doctor's issue is because he's a male. It's kind of like, are we really, like, it impacts everyone perimenopause.

It does impact people, people genuinely feel like they're losing their minds with paramedopause, unfortunately. But it impacts family as well. It impacts partners. It impacts kids. It impacts everyone. And I think the more people that understand it

and that the more people that aren't condescending assholes about it, I think it's a hell of that easier to manage. because I know there's a massive gap in the knowledge still about it. Like, we could be having this conversation again in five years and it could completely change again. Because there was a massive stigma to like H.R.T and stuff. And some people are still scared. I just had a conversation on Friday about it with someone who was scared to take the HOT.

And obviously, like, it's pro-choice. But the information you have was from the 90s. And it was only one paper. And it's been disproven hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times. And sometimes you can be, I find sometimes because you know what the answer is, it's being careful of not overwhelming that person with your own opinion.

It's kind of like, right, there's the information, pros and cons. You go do what you want. I'll be like, go get your hormones checked with the doctor and then you can make the educated decision with the doctor. They'll always give you the pros and choice. If you've gone to the doctor, they'll be like, this is what we could do, this is what we could do,

and it's up to you to latch on to what you want. My job is to kind of give you the information. That's not medical advice, but kind of saying, right, Now it can choose what you want to do. Yeah, and you can choose it or not, or you can get pissed off because he's a man or so. But there seems to be, like, on social media,

this big kind of gender war anyway between males and females. Yeah, but I think it's like, if you think about it for a very long time, the Patriarch has been, and I think that, as I was watching the Schneider-O'Connor documentary, who watched it? Yeah. I only watched it on Friday night,

I was like, she was way ahead of her time. Like, misunderstood, way ahead of her time. and she was seen as a nutcase. Yeah. It's a shame that she had to die for everyone to kind of realize, including myself, like, of everything that she's done. But it's the same people that are praising her, where the same people that were rejecting her

and calling her out, like, years ago. So that's kind of like, people will always jump for these sensations headlines to kind of sell medias and stuff like that. But I think life's too fucking sure for these gender wars. Yeah, yeah. What is a mistake that you made that comes to mind when coaching clients? I think when it very first started it was that they probably didn't want it enough. What do you mean by that?

So sometimes when you get a client and you don't understand, I didn't have the skill set of like understand habits, behaviours, belief systems, all that kind of stuff. I didn't have the education myself. It's like, oh, what the client isn't tracking the calories, they're weak, they're in. Yeah, they've no willpower. Yeah, they're not disciplined enough. Yeah, so that probably took, I realized that after kind of six months, I was, I went to do lift the bar. Oh yeah yeah yeah so they have a lot of webinars and kind of like

yeah okay so this isn't actually what's going on yeah but I also hear still coaches saying it so it's like not that they don't want it enough it's what they some of them wanted too much I will do anything and everything to get there or else they'll do anything and everything to not get there because they're afraid of success would you ever go into the space of coaching coaches on on these kind of topics I've thought about it 2024 maybe I need to kind of fluff it out a little bit I've thought about doing something with a few things I just need to fluff it out a little bit because then it's like you preventing coaches from making the mistakes that you made and you know expand to how many people you're helping through that yeah I would kind of like I know there's definitely bigger experts like the dogs of Dr Gary Mendoza would be habits and behaviours I'm never going to have the level of we talked about self-belief though earlier that's not self-belief it's staying in my lane yeah that's true it's true it's true What do you think makes anything right or wrong? And I think we've touched on this a little bit before.

But what do you think, this is the last question, what do you think anything makes right or wrong in terms of whether it's food decisions, business decisions, life decisions, like how do you read this distinguish between this is the right decision or the wrong decision? Has it been in line with your values? And has it added to your life? Yeah.

Because obviously we're quite reactive. If you take that step back, like, I get it wrong. I'm human. see me or please don't see me I get it wrong with clients sometimes I get it wrong with business stuff I get it wrong with relationship stuff I got it wrong with mates

I get it wrong there's times you say something sometimes I can be way too direct I'm very aware of that but also if I haven't slept the night before I am an asshole to be around I just go yeah so before you make a decision

have a nap or have loads of caffeine yeah yeah so yeah I think it's accepting it's kind of looking at is it aligned with your values and is it bringing you where you want to go? And if it isn't bringing you where you're going, it's like, right, taking a step back and saying, right, is actually going to, what's, if that was to happen again, what I do anything differently. If the answer is still no, that's okay. If the answer is yes, well then try to make sure that the next time it is, that's more aligned where you want to go.

Yeah. Core values have, and that's only something that I've kind of took on over the last year or so in terms of my own life and then helping clients with their fuel decisions with that, like being able to distinguish what's important. yeah is really important yeah and it's a tough exercise to do yeah it's it takes time and they think a lot of people feel that they should have other things in line they're kind of like they sometimes can see finances number one and they're kind of like well why is my finance and my money really important that's kind of like it can be too honest sometimes and people don't want the truth some people don't want the answer it's okay to have the nice things if it makes you happy and so but why does it make you happy yeah who is just trying to validate yeah like I'm trying to

There's a, there's a, I'm trying to remember the name of the book now. It's something about ego, but it's kind of like... Ego's the enemy or the monk and the Ferrari? Will Storrho's, Monkees Starrie or Who Bought the Farrie is one of my favourite books. Yeah, it's grateful. Will Stor is the name of the author. I can't remember right now, but he talks about that, or it's a status game. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so he talks about like everything we do on a daily basis is based off status. this podcast here status for me exactly but like you look at someone and the first thing you do is you check them up in there and say right where am i ranked first thing what's the first question you do when you meet someone you yeah what do you do for live what do you do yeah i'm kind of like i couldn't give you it yeah or if you're in america it's like how much what do you like exactly or as you look at you look at someone and say right this person's attractive this person's not attracted it's kind of like where do i rank on this and what he says in it is like an awful lot of people think they're actually more attractive than they actually are But that is, and then when people get rejected on dates and in love life, that's why they struggle with it because they think they're up here,

but they're probably around here and they probably need to bring this down a little bit further. It's fine. And some people are up here. Yeah, but some people are chocolate and they eat themselves, like if they could. So, yeah. We have to wrap it up now, but before we go, tell the listeners a little bit about where they can find more of your content, of anything they want to know more about you.

Where can they go? Yeah, so people can find me at Shane Walsh Fitness on Instagram. Shane Walsh podcast is on iTunes and up on Spotify. And then there's the female fat-loss program, which is the group coaching. And then there's the one-to-one coach of myself. And there's a new coach coming on to help out with the group coach in there. So, yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Brilliant. And I'll have everything on the show notes for you as well. Thanks for watching. If you like that episode and you want to see more content like this, make sure you're subscribed. And I'll see you on the next one.