The Uneducated PT Podcast - 🎙️ The Uneducated PT Podcast — Episode 125: “Existential Crisis: Population Decline & The Future of Humanity”

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

This week Ryan dives deep into one of the quietest but most powerful challenges facing our generation — population decline.After last week’s talk on AI and the end of the world, this episode explores how fewer births might reshape everything we know about society, culture, and the human story itself. Ryan breaks down:Why economists and demographers call falling birth rates a slow-motion crisis.How modern life, freedom, and culture have unintentionally built an anti-family mindset.The hard truth — even with money, childcare, and support, no country has reversed fertility decline once it drops too far.Why it’s not just about economics, but about meaning, identity, and optimism.We also explore:How individualism, secularism, and modern freedom changed how we see family and responsibility.Whether we’ve become an anti-natal, anti-family society.The emotional cost of involuntary childlessness — grief, regret, and the quiet loneliness of those who wanted children but couldn’t have them.Ryan closes with some brutally honest questions about our future:Do we have a moral duty to sustain society?Is freedom without family sustainable?And what happens when a civilization stops believing in tomorrow?🧠 Topics Covered:Global birth rate collapse (Japan, Korea, UK)Cultural shifts: religion, consumerism, dating, and individualismThe rise of involuntary childlessnessEconomic and emotional consequences of demographic declineTen hard questions about responsibility and humanity’s future🎧 Listen now — and ask yourself:

So basically many economists, policymakers, demographers, increasingly argue that birth decline is one of the defining issues of our generation, though it's often overshadowed by more visible crises like climate change and AI disruption. Birth decline isn't just about fewer babies, it's about long-term sustainability of societies. Every major system we rely on, the economy, healthcare, education, wealth, fair assumes that there will be a next generation to support the previous one. So unlike wars, recession, pandemics, population decline unfolds slowly and silently. But once it reaches a certain point, it's almost irreversible.

It's, it has, there's never been any proof that it's being reversible before, even though, you know, some countries are trying to do it now. I think it was in Poland as well. They, they have like a thing where it's like if you have two or more. more kids and you have no no tax up until like 140k or something like that for for parents um in 1950 the global fertility rate was about 5.0 children per woman as of 2025 it's around 2.3 near replacement level but it's fallen fast over 60% of the world's population living countries now where it's below replacement fertility so east asia really low uh replacement level, which people would be shocked about that because, you know, if you look at East Asia,

you might like think about Thailand and Vietnam and you think about kids running around everywhere and you think about kind of South America as well, you think about like, you know, family is in favelas with like six and seven kids and stuff like that. Like that's the perception we have in our mind. But the data doesn't actually suggest that Europe as well, Japan, South Korea, Germany, Italy, these are all places where it's like really, really bad. Within a generation or two, most of the world will face population aging and eventually decline, something humanity has never experienced on this scale. And then I'll just go into a couple of the reasons why it's detrimental.

So first you have economic collapse risk anyway, if it gets too low. So fewer workers means lower productivity, means slower growth for a country. Pensions and healthcare systems fail as fewer young people pay for elderly to basically have pensions. Shortage of nurses, caregivers and doctors. Empty schools because there's no kids, ghost towns, collapsing property markets. You see this in Japan, right, where they've closed down schools. They've closed down entire rural towns. You know, there's loads of just empty houses all over Japan because, you know,

them kind of little rural areas just can't survive then. So rural regions disappear entirely. A collective loss of optimism when society stopped leaving in a future worth building. Some demographers call this demographic fatalism, the quiet acceptance of the client. Why it's so hard to fix, even with generous policies like free childcare, parental leave, financial bonuses, no country has sustainably raised fertility back to replacement level once it fell below 1.5 Ireland is that 1.5 now I think England is close to that as well

because birth rates are no longer just about money then they become about culture and identity and all that things people marry later and not at all I know we have I think in the last 30 years the amount of people getting married has reduced by 50% where they're at an all-time low of people getting married social media and urban life replaced community networks parenthood is seen as stressful

expensive or optional in many societies optimism about the future has faded like whenever I talk about this online I'll often get like people in common saying things like why would I bring a child into this society it's a good point though

yeah but I wouldn't be a an anti-n't be a an anti- natalist type like I would I'd be very much a a pro human like I you know but we'll we'll we'll get into that I have questions that I want to ask you to kind of to touch on that basically in a philosopher's standpoint so it's not just an economic issue it becomes a civil a civilization one and what else did I want to go so I wanted to talk to you about

then essentially thinking about it from a a social standpoint as well, right? So the shift from collectivism to individualism. So in traditional societies, life purpose was, you know, collective, centered around family, fake, community, you know, tribes, people would marry young, they'd have children, and saw parenthood as a part of their duty for something larger than themselves. In modern culture, by contrast, you know, we prize individualism and self-fulfillment, you know, success, happiness.

identity, freedom, defined personally rather than communal. So parenthood once a default milestone has become one choice among many, often postponed in favour of education, travel and personal grow, which, you know, to, like, I think to a degree there's, there's true and both of that. Like, you should. The shades of grade, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in, in the past, life's meaning was found in raising the next generation.

today many seek meaning within themselves. So then my question for you then, and touching on everything that I just spoke about there, do you think prioritise an individual happiness over collective responsibility has made society stronger or lonelier? It's made society, right? So if we're talking about society as a whole thing,

it's made society lonelier, yes, but it's made sub-sectors of society. So let's say we break society down to sub-tribs happier as well as individuals now the the overarching premise is well responsibility right so a lot of people uh will prioritize happiness and i think they think then that happiness is a lack of responsibility whereas most people actually derive their happiness from having responsibility as an individual so yes i do think it is a it's a net negative but by the same token it's very very tricky right because

you've got to understand that if you get put between a rock and a hard place, you don't really have a decision to make. Right. So, you know, going back to the argument that you previously mentioned, which was, okay, look, why would I bring a child to this world? To be honest, bro, that's my argument. Why would I bring a child into this world? Not because I can't raise it, but because me raising it is not the only factor I have

to now consider. As I consider other people raising my child on my behalf. Right. So that makes it very, very difficult for you to actually engineer and bolster society and culture in a positive way, right? Because, for example, they've just passed a law in California where a child can consent to a sex change without the approval of the parents, right? So in that situation, it's like, wow, okay, well, then what happens to parenthood? So I would say the biggest kind of pivot point there would be parentalism, to put it bluntly, it's you're kind of kneecapping people's ability to parent, right?

And you're kind of saying, okay, well, let the government or let the powers that be parent my kids instead. In turn, what you're doing is you're popping up babies that are going to turn into fucking robots. So it is a rock and a hard place. Do I think it is beneficial for society for us to have less kids? No, it is like objectively not. But by the same token, when someone says to me, I don't want to have kids, it makes

total fucking sense. There has to be drastic exponential change higher up the chain of command in order to give people the freedom to actually raise their kids and bolster civilization in society because then you have to look at society itself.

Is this society me and you want to live in? Right? And the answer more often than not is no, right? We don't want digital IDs. We don't want X, Y and Z. So it gets very, very tricky. Yeah. Because how am I going to raise my kid without the influence of these sorts of malignant natures and malignant forces having their hand where they shouldn't have it right kind of like you're putting your hand up a girl's skirt in the middle of a nightclub

it's just not right you know what i mean so it's a very tricky one because yeah you're right it is detrimental to society but i would also say this society and not necessarily the people the people us have engineered it to make it so and then what's happened is governments for example Poland and such like that have seen a rapid decline in birth rate and now they're going have more kids come on have more kids and it's so i suppose that the ethical question then becomes like is this ethical to bring up children in a world that are facing all these you know uh terrible things whether it's uh you know moral culture culture being morally wrong in in ways whether it's war i mean like we've seen horrendous things go on through through through the years

you know whether that's you know uh you know the rise of nazism whether it's you know Stalin whether it's male whether it's all these terrible things but is it more ethical to continue humanity regardless of the conditions that society is in the correct and most sustainable solution would be to continue society yes yeah but you've been put in a position which is like, I want the circus to continue. So we need to catch more lions. It doesn't mean it's right. So it is,

it is a, what I call a ethical gray area. Yeah. Because I do not blame someone for saying, look, I don't want to raise a child in this. No, I understand.

I think I 100% understand. I understand the fears and concerns and the nihilism about the future. But I also think that you're, you're, it's almost a dichotomous, dichotomous thinking in a way, is it not? Because it's like, well, yes, these are issues that need to be resolved.

Like that is a ridiculous law to be putting true. And we should fight against that law. We should fight against, you know, immoral thinking in many different ways. And also two things can be true that we also should probably have a responsibility to continue on society. Exactly.

And that is the dichotomy. And there is a way through, but the way through is so, it's been made so difficult. Again, I will highlight the powers that be. It's been made so difficult by whatever sinister cabal is behind the iron curtain because it's like, okay, you know what, I'll bring a child into this world. If I had enough resources to prevent the overreach of people who are not part of my family unit. You see what I mean? So people who are, let's say, extremely wealthy, right?

They can go, for example, Elon Musk, I'm going to homeschool my kid. Yeah. Right. And I'm going to give him everything he needs and I'm going to socialize him, you know, in this way, et cetera, which is exactly what you should do. Kids need to be socialized, et cetera. That's the whole premise in my opinion of school.

That's the only benefit it can bring now because education is broken. Right. So there is a way through, but. Well, even Elon isn't immune to this because he's had plenty of kids. And I think one of his kids ended up transitioning through that, through the old virus. Yeah, you got. Yeah.

you got scratched by that woke mind virus and you're serious to by it. So even I think even the rich are not going to be immune to suffering from society. Exactly. And that's the tricky part. It's like the correct course of action is the only way out is through to quote Ryan Holiday. But by the same token, a lot of people can't actually get through. Do you know what I mean? So it makes it very tricky. Now the problem is the support system you need and the support network you need, It's not from immediate family. And it's not from government subsidies either. Giving people benefits doesn't make them better parents.

It doesn't create better individuals for society necessarily, right? If we're looking at it from a more free market catalyst perspective, right? But by the same token, you do want to continue the population. But this is my, if we had to zoom out, do a Miyamoto Musashi and take a distance view of close things. Right. The overarching premise is, well, the engineer downfall is, necessary in order for higher powers to actually see that what they're doing is backward. So, for example, if digital ID is a really simple example, people know it's wrong, right?

But let's say they buy into it. That's going to extend the bravery of people being able to introduce more policies similar to that. Then it gets to an impasse, right, where people just absolutely revolt. Very good example is Ireland, right? are kicking off at the moment about a bunch of things, which is a good thing, right? So there's the distant view is, well, this decline, almost in the sounds slightly nihilistic, needs to happen in order for the people who've kind of, what's the word, fostered this,

to actually see, holy shit, it's working against us and not for us. You know, so it's very tricky. It's a very good question, and it's a very complex one that can't be unpacked with a yes no. No, I don't think so. That's why it's a very, it's a very unfair question to be like, all right, well, there's no nuance to this. There's so much nuance to this. Another question I wanted to ask you, which is probably a bit of a top revoken one would be if automation and AI can replace human workers, does population decline still matter? Or is there more to civilization than just economics? No, population decline does still matter because what will happen is, is in turn,

you'll get less innovation, less creation, and less creativity in turn, making society more gray. When it's more gray, people are more depressed, people are more down, a lot more people will take their lives. We can already see this happening, right? So with AI, you know, subsidizing human work, yeah, it's going to be a huge contributing factor to population decline, and it's going to actually cause a big issue further on down the line. So a lot of us are looking at the the source of the well upstream, but not the mouth of the river. The mouth of the river is where it's at. And if you look at the mouth of the river, less people, less innovation,

less opportunities for a Beethoven to come through, or a Picasso or a Van Gogh, you know, or I don't know, a thought leader like steep jobs, for example. Less of those will happen because overall, less people are being produced. In turn, decrease in the quality of society tenfold, right? And in turn, that'll have a knock on effect with regard to the developmental speed of AI too, right? Because there's going to be less people being able to program and push and accentuate its reach and its ability. There is a caveat to that, which is, well, what happens if AI can just do it itself. And it probably will.

But my thing would be, okay, well, you're actively choosing to replace more people with more robots. Yeah, and if you do that, well, you're going to get less people in the workforce. Less people in the workforce. Earn less. Earn less live shorter spans of time just in general because let's say they don't have access to health care that's privatized or... Or just essentially be, you know, like eventually there will be just no need for humans whatsoever because I mean, what would be our purpose? Like, you know, we're just deciding to. to swap out more and more families and kids and people for you know that's okay you know

know AI can do that that's okay I can look after health care AI can look after this AI can look after this well what is the actual point or a function of humanity anymore what what exactly the thing what right we can just we just you know yeah you're just gonna ossify and dissolve and yeah the irony of that is if you look at a match right it has a stick and then it has the catalytic edge which is like sulfur, right? You know, the top bit of a match. Okay.

Now, if human beings are completely depleted, you're missing the lighting part of the stick. And what I mean about the lighting part is the actual stick itself. So you'll have the catalyst of AI being able to innovate, create and all this kind of stuff. For who? For who? No one's going to be there, bro. You know what I mean?

And you know what else I actually, I haven't, I don't have this bit written down. Sorry, that's someone trying to ring me. I don't have this bit written. down but um like we see the the the social eruption that's going on all around europe right and one thing where population decline is that like if you look at places like italy and germany where it's really really bad and it's really really low what they're one of their one of their solutions for this is oh well we'll just bring in more immigrants yeah and it's like okay well does culture still mean anything?

This is the thing is culture always has meaning. But if you choose to destroy its value and destroy its meaning, you're undermining more than just culture, right? You're undermining people, humanity in general, right? So there was something I saw really interesting on Instagram, which was, uh, someone posted real being like, uh, a bunch of people were saying, uh, why people have no culture, why people have no culture. There is no culture for white people, blah, blah, blah.

And then it just went to a shot of, uh, uh, Picasso, Michelangelo, Christianity, Vikings, Bluetooth, all these sorts of things. What do you mean we have no culture? So it's it's it's it's assinine because if you do that and then what you're going to get is a a monotone culture. Everything's going to be the same. But by the same token, anyone who wants to think differently, you're going to get tall poppishing.

They're going to be chopped down. So innovation, creation, thought leaders, growth is going to stagnate and just hit. a fucking impasse, a brutal impasse. And it's going to hit an impasse and it's not going to be a pleasant one because it's going to happen so quick. Now what I mean by it's happening so quick is I'm referring to the Matthew principle, which is if you do more, more is given to you. So what I'm essentially referring to is you'll see, okay, decline, decline, decline, and then impasse. No creativity, no innovation, no nothing. And then what do you get, right? You get parents who then go, well, AI can do this, AI can do this. So what kind of virtues are they going to be able to instill into

their kids son i worked six days a week picking up trash bags to make sure i could provide for you not to gaslight your son but to teach them about a work ethic or something along those lines now of a sudden everything is let's say automated it's like well son everything was automated okay well what what like virtues and characteristics can you teach me from that well i don't know i's chat chatt gb t me let me let me uh talk to you about our religion because you'll enjoy this one as well so this is another cultural kind of dynamics to population decline. So the decline of religion and traditional family norms for centuries, religion reinforced marriage, family and childbearing as a sacred duty. As society became more secular, these norms weakened.

Without moral and spiritual imperatives to be fruitful, family formation became a pragmatic question of lifestyle and affordability. Highly secular societies like Japan, Sweden and Germany were among the first. first to see fertility collapse. Meanwhile, strongly religious communities, such as Mormons, Orthodox Jews and devoted Muslims, continue to have far higher rates of fertility. The question then becomes, has the decline of religion given more,

giving people more freedom, or has it left a moral and emotional void around family and purpose? Emotional void? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, that is no shades of grade that, mate. It's very simple, very easy, because without the, without like faith.

Let's use faith instead of religion because I prefer that in my opinion. Without faith, right, there are so many things that just can't come to fruition. It's just a physical impossibility, right? You know, let's say you're a single mom. You have three kids. You don't know how you're going to get through it. You're just, I'm walking on faith here. You know, you're much more likely to go through the dark tunnel than you are if you're just like,

oh, well, pragmatically speaking, this isn't going to work. You know what I mean? And in turn, as that mother does that, she becomes more resilient, stronger, you know, more enlightened and so on and so forth. And it also goes down the root of, well, individualism. Well, what's higher than the individual, you know, faith, God? And if you don't have that, well, then you're only subservient to yourself.

And if you're only subservient to yourself, that can only get you so far. So the answer there is clear and cut and dry. Yeah, very true. We have built a culture that celebrates personal autonomy, yet undervalues interdependence. the paradox you know people have never been freer to have children you have never chosen to have fewer

so do you think modern freedom encourages fulfillment or do you think too much choice makes it harder for people to commit to things like family I think we're spoiled for choice for sure yeah I think we're spoiled for choice

but I think we also get very twisted and confused with conflating happiness with no responsibility. Yeah, yeah. The happiest I've ever been is when I'm responsible for helping someone else. Yeah. You know, when someone's like, Ryan, I'm not feeling great.

I'm like, fucking yes, let me get to work, you know? And I derive a lot of fulfillment, joy and satisfaction from that. You'll always find you'll be much, much happier thinking about others and how to help others, then you do think about yourself. I see a great thing where I just read it before I came on. It was like, community is inconvenience. if you want perfection, you're going to be very, very lonely because, you know, being around people are looking after people, it is inconvenient, even if it's like the friend who texts

you too much or choose too loud or like all these things and people are community and you have to deal with that inconvenience. Yeah, and you have to develop virtues, characteristics, traits. These are the traits, virtues and characteristics one needs to develop in order to become a more wholesome individual, right? Because if you just develop characteristics and traits that are like easy to pick up, they're not really that virtuous, are they, mate? You know what I mean? You know, it goes back to the old saying, which is, well, you know, I'm a good person. Well, why are you good? Well, I've done nothing bad. Have you ever had an opportunity to think bad? No. Well, then you're not good. You're just a fucking coward. You haven't been tempted. You know what I mean? So, you know,

it goes down to, well, you'll just have a bunch of people who are more disingenuous and it's virtuous because they're going for the low hanging fruit. You know, and we always, all of us, know, especially coaches, which is the harder something is, the more rewarding it is once it's completed. So if something's super easy and everyone can do it, does that make you feel special, individual that growth has occurred? No, not at all. It doesn't.

you know so it comes down to like well what is true virtue and true virtue is not developed in comfort it's developed in the crucible of discomfort and learning how to adapt and deal with other people people go well what about immigration right why don't you want to deal with them because i don't because i know right and there is a certain line and the line is very clear for me right i don't need sharia law in freaking Norway. Let me give you another inner look to this population decline. So changing sexual and dating cultures. So sex and reproduction are now entirely separate.

Controception, abortion access and hook up culture means sex rarely leads to children. Meanwhile, people are dating and marrying later and many describe dating fatigue. endless options but little connection digital life also plays a role social media and dating apps create superficial contact but fewer lasting relationships in japan so korea and even the u.s surveys show record numbers of young adults have never had sex before their 30s without relationships the path to parenthood simply disappears totally true yeah it's just true and you've got to remember like when you look at any fall of any empire, any great civilization, it all stemmed from, okay, let's just buy into hedonistic win, right?

Instead of deep connection and going through the shit with your partner, right? Instead, it's like, oh, no, we argued. Fuck this. Nope. It's like, no, we argued, but we're going to figure this out, you know, and again, society is starting to breed more morally, excuse everyone for listening to this, but it's the truth, more morally weak people. So when something's inconvenient

or when something's tricky, I'll just cut and run because I have another option. But what does that do? It prevents the depth of the connection occurring in the first fucking place. You know what I mean? Like, my best friends are my best friends

because we've had disagreements or because they've told me deep shit or because there's been tricky times in their life where I've had to be there for them or vice versa, right? That develops the depth of the friendship. shit. Not, you know, everything's good. Oh, well, now everything's shit. Okay, I'm just going to fuck off. You know what I mean? Where's the virtue in that? Where's the genuine strength in that?

You know, you have to know when something's not good for you, of course. But by the same token, just because something isn't making you happy right now, it doesn't mean it's not good for you in the long term. Think about exercise. You know what I mean? Exactly the same principle. If I can hate it when you're in there, but it guarantee you won't feel worth for coming out of the gym. No, definitely not, definitely not. The consumer lifestyle, so in modern consumer culture, identity revolves around choice, success and comfort, children see through the lens, children seen through that lens, I represent a major lifestyle cost, time, money and freedom. The media often portrays parenthood as stressful or limiting while travel, career and self-optimization are celebrated. This has created a subtle value shift. People invest in themselves.

rather than in their future generations. Parenthood becomes not a duty, but a luxury project and won't many feel they can't afford. Do you think consumer culture has made people too focused on self-interest? Yes and no. And the point I'll make here is, for example, self-investment, right? Why do you invest in the cell? Simple.

You want to be a better version of who you are, so you can be a better version of who you are for the people you care about. Look at a mother trying to. I'm going to lose weight. Look at a dad trying to get healthy. I'm investing in myself so I can be a better father or a better example to those around me. You see? So it is tricky because self-optimization is not a bad thing, but it's a bad thing when the self-optimization is only there for the self, you know, because you're optimizing yourself, not just for you, but to make sure that you are the best

version of yourselves you can give it to others, you know, and the more you can give to others, the better you feel, aka the Matthew principal as well. Where I see it in terms of modern consumer culture is I completely agree with what you say there as well and I don't think it should be black and white but I think you'll see a lot of

you know the travel influencers on TikTok and a lot of the times they'll often put up things like let's say they're on a beach in the Bahamas right and they're like couldn't do this if I had kids at home and it's more like

kids would ruin me having my fun versus me being on this beach in the Bahamas and what you don't see with that like 45 or that 15 second TikTok clip is well I can guarantee even if they're in paradise a lot of these people are probably more lonely than they'll than they'll portray and instead of being you know honest with themselves

they'll project by saying look at me how much fun I'm having because I don't have kids while also trying to shame that kind of mother at home is looking after her two kids or that father who's out working to make a living so we can put food on the table for them and okay while they don't have as much luxury they do have purpose they have purpose and they also have a level of fulfillment that can't be replicated from a beach and barley mate yeah it just can't right so you're right you're seeing a 15 second highlight reel but you go look at a mother who's raised a child and now let's say they're out the home and they've grown up think of the memories and the highlight real and it's a very simple and easy way to notice that

go speak to a mother who's raised let's say two or three or more kids when the house is empty they feel lonely yeah because of that a hell of a journey they've been on with their kids yeah you know so you are right and i think the problem there is yeah you can say you know oh you know i've got the freedom to do this and this and this, awesome. But being a mother or being a father or being a parent is just as beautiful, if not more. You'll definitely derive more fulfillment from it. I guarantee that, right? Does it come with more challenges?

100%, but challenge and fulfillment go hand in hand. And it's also, I don't want to be too pro one side as well because there is people who never wanted to have kids and have lived unbelievably fulfilled lives. And, you know, maybe it is in your path to, you know, travel the world and see every single country and have the most unbelievable adventures and find real fulfillment out of that. I think that's true. But I don't think it's true for a lot of people. I think a lot of people see other people, you know, going abroad and saying, oh, I need to do that as well because, you know, they are calling that consumer lifestyle. Like, oh, I see that person going to Costa Rica.

to go to Costa Rica and then they get there and they're like, huh, how come I'm still not happy? Exactly, because I think they're looking for a deeper purpose in the wrong place. Yeah, yeah. You know, for sure. But it's harder. I think it's harder to actually find that in. It's harder to find someone, have a family and settle down, especially in this economy as well, with the cost of living, then it is to probably make some money and get a flight to Costa Rica.

Oh, it's much harder, but the reward is much greater. That's the thing. And so many people, as I said, go for low-hanging fruit. Like, look, I haven't got kids and I get to travel. Okay, awesome, sweet. But do you think I look at a mom? And I think, oh, my God, you're so trapped. Yeah.

I look at it. I go, you are an absolute beast. You are braver and tougher than I ever could be. I admire that. I genuinely admire that, right? because it is such a selfless thing you're doing, it's a sad reality, it's almost alien to me. It's like, wow, like what an amazing feat you've undergone and you're undergoing. So I think the problem there lies in kind of like that Spider-Man meme where one person's pointing

at them and the other person's pointing back. And it's like, no, you've got your outliers, right? You know, some people who will never have kids and do want to travel the world and so on so forth and that's okay but by the same token don't get it twisted having kids having a family in the nuclear home is one of the most if not the most beautiful thing possible if you can actually have control of your own sphere but then when hands come in from outside it's like well now i'm kind of under the thumb here yeah you know and that makes it a lot harder for parents which again in the most ironic sense is the most beautiful thing when people do it yeah

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because society has tried to make it harder for families and still they've exactly, they're trying to make it harder. Yeah. And the hard part there is like, well, if you're going to make it harder and people are still going to go through it, when are the powers that be going to learn? Yeah. And I don't actually have an answer for that. Yeah.

Well, that's why I always say, especially in Europe and in Ireland, that, you know, that's, the government aren't pro-family because they're trying to do everything in their power to make it more difficult for families and are trying to take all the power and give it to government rather to give it to families and you know local councils which even if they were pro-family it wouldn't be pro-family for the sake of family it'll be pro-family to bolster the economy or pro-family to make sure we can get more people in the workforce yeah true there will be an ulterior maccavillian motive and the higher reality that people do not understand about politics is they are not there to serve you and that's exactly what they should be there for they're there for the exact inverse reason to serve themselves yeah true let me let me let me let me let me quickly move on to involuntary child and sis because this obviously um is a downstream issue from everything that we spoke about in terms of culture in terms of um you know worries about the future in terms of uh you know the economics the makes it a lot more difficult for people to have children so involuntary

childnessness in childlessness in the UK so around one and five women in the UK born in the mid 1970s reached the age of 45 without having children for younger generations it's happening even more half of women born in 1990 were still childless at 30 many of those women did want children but life circumstances got in the way not always church, not always choice. I pulled up a study there yesterday. I don't have it on me now, but it was like 10% of women in Ireland who didn't have

children by whatever age I think was 40, chose not to have children. Therefore, the other 90% happened due to other circumstances, basically. So it wasn't actually their choice. For men around 1 and 4 over age 42 don't have children. Some chose that but others said it wasn't by choice. Simple takeaway. More people in the UK than ever before are reaching middle aged without having kids and many did not plan it. How people feel about this. Studies and support groups show that people who wanted children but couldn't have them often feel grief, sadness and loneliness, especially as they get older. Some describe it like mourning a life that never happened. People who are childless by circumstance, not by choice, often feel forgotten. gotten or misunderstood by society. Involuntary childlessness can cause long-term emotional pain, not just because of not having kids, but because it affects identity, belonging and purpose.

There's usually not one single reason. It's a mix of timing relationships, money, health, status, culture, all the things that we spoke about. Biggest reasons, though, so not finding the right partner, this is the biggest reason for women in their 30s and 40s who wanted children but didn't have them. many people spent years in education or careers and simply didn't meet someone suitable in time. I think that's a huge issue in society, right? It's like, you know, obviously it was a great thing to give women, what was it,

what was the name of it when they basically gave women the right to go to further education back in the 70s? I can't remember what it was. title title nine i think it was um but essentially right so you know women women eventually got the the opportunity the gate opened for them to pursue education and therefore then pursue careers and i don't think anyone's saying that we should go back to the to the 60s when they when they shouldn't be in a they should just stay in the kitchen nobody saying that i am not saying that for any of the feminist and Nazis if they want to come out of me i'm not saying

that but uh you know every action has a reaction and a and a fatal consequence of women absolutely dominating education and dominating careers and being far better than men in so many different ways especially in terms of of learning and reading and writing i think they perform far better in the classroom and the byproduct of that is that they held out on having kids till later in life and And, you know, then fertility becomes an issue. You might meet someone when you're younger and, you know, because you've went out but you've never committed to marriage and kids, you know, maybe the relationship fizzled out. Maybe then you met someone who was a really good match for you, but, you know, after 30, it gets

harder and harder to conceive. So I think them kind of situations become more and more prevalent in society now, whereas that people can people have the women have the option of of further education and and climbing up the corporate ladder and that means they need to take time out from uh starting a family or feel pressured to take time out from starting a family to focus on career first where i would be of the opinion that because we're living longer and longer um i think that skills should probably have the when like skills are supposed to be teaching sex ed but one thing that they don't speak about is like that they do everything in their power to prevent kids from getting pregnant.

Yeah, they make it so poor. That's that that's the biggest fair. It's like, Mache, this is how you put a condom on a fucking banana. You know what I mean? But but nobody, nobody in the education system talks about, well, which is the actual real prevalent problem of society now is that, well, this is the real impact of waiting longer and longer to have children. your your percentage or chances of getting pregnant like drastically start to reduce that is true i think

i think that's definitely a contributing factor like a big contributing factor don't get twisted but i think one of the biggest um it's look it's a benefit as well obviously but one of the biggest dangers to society is not female education but the birth control pill yeah right because that enabled, and this is going to sound very sexist, but that enabled women to, to, to, and men, to essentially buy into the hedonistic woman of sexual gratification. Yeah. Rather than being a bit more poignant at picking your partner. Well, this was the thing back in the day, it was like you didn't have sex till after marriage

because the consequences of getting pregnant before you were married were very, very. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the birth control pill is definitely good and it's definitely useful and it's definitely got its place and it is definitely important, right? It's a huge, huge step. But people do not realize that that in and of itself will be one of the main precursors for the downfall of society in terms of population, for sure. Right? Because, hey, you know, I slept with this guy.

I didn't really think about it too much. Let me just pop the pill and sort it out. You know, rather than, okay, I need. be a bit more, I don't want to say conservative because people think I'm being political, but a bit more conserved in how I pick my man, and a bit more picky about it in a more fundamental sense, because this could be the father of my children. Yes. You see what I mean?

So it's an enabled more hedonistic whim. Am I saying that women shouldn't have hedonistic whim? Of course you should. Like, that's fucking fine. But to understand the general consequence of what that, that, of having that ability is. is insane. Joan B. Peterson alludes to it a lot better than I do, but with the ability to control that

as your ability to control the population, as well as your ability to make more stupid choices. Yeah. Louise Perry talks about this very well. She has a book called The Case Against the Sexual Revolution, and she puts it brilliantly. She actually, I don't know if you're saying that she did, she did a debate against, not a debate,

but a conversation with Bonnie Blue, And it was like polar opposite people like her, he was very, Louise Perry, who was very much someone who, you know, when she was younger, she worked in a, in a rape crisis center. And, you know, she's very, she's very conservative in her, in her views now just through research of, you know, well, more freedom for women in terms of sexual endeavors. Didn't actually make women happier or more safe.

Or better. Yeah, she's, she's great. what else that I want to look at so health and fertility issues some people try to some people try but can't conceive even with medical help IVF and other treatments are costly

emotionally draining and don't always work another thing with fertility issues actually which is probably what we should speak about as people who help people with their health is you know even obviously a society that are sicker because we're overweight we're inactive we don't get the right nutrients into us that all plays a part in conceiving as well.

I've had at least, I remember over the years at least four or five people that I worked with who came to me and them and their partner were trying to conceive and, you know, they started weight training for the first time and after a couple of months they got really strong, they lost a lot of weight, they felt great and well, oh my God, Carl, we've after getting pregnant, I've never been so happy, you know, it's funny, is it. It's true though. It's true. That's the thing. And like, with the ease of access for shittier food in society, it does lead to a massive detrimental in terms of your health. And if people think that that just means how you look and not your internal health and your internal function, you've got it twisted. I'll give you a very simple example. Female bodybuilders, right, when they get ready for a prep towards a show, a lot of the coaches don't look after them post show. The woman missed their periods. They can have infertility issues, all sorts. Right.

Now, people go, well, bodybuilding is healthy. No, bodybuilding is just a very fucking unhealthy, right? You're getting your body to a level of leanness that it cannot sustain for more than a few hours, right? Yeah. And it's trying to fight to keep its muscle, trying to, you know, drop as much, you know, tissue and water as possible. It's not a healthy state you'd be in for a very long period of time. And you can see the knock on effect that has on women post-show. And a lot of bodybuilding coaches don't actually have post-show protocols in place for females.

Yeah. Anything where you lose your period isn't health. No, in the moment you start losing your period is the moment you know, okay, something's fucking wrong. Plain and simple. You know, or I'm pregnant. Right. So it's one of those things where people kind of misconstrued like, okay, health is like I'm in shape. No, health is your mental and physical state, right? Is it good, right? Can you eat healthily? Do you know what health looks like? And the biggest problem with regard to the health side of things is people now say, you're not being healthy, I'm on a diet. Yeah. What?

Yeah. You're just being healthy. You're not on a diet. You just stop eating fucking McDonald's every fucking day. You're not on a diet, mate. You're changing the way you're eating. This is healthy. People confuse and conflate, well, you know, I'm getting healthy now.

Why? I'm on a diet, man. I'm training. So that's what you should be doing. Last question I have for you. Do you think society unfairly judges people who don't have children even when it wasn't their choice? Yes.

Or even if it was their choice. Yes. Yeah. 100%. Because I wanted to make it a fair balance as well because, you know, obviously I would be pro family. I think people having families are great. But also I don't think there should be any judgment on people who didn't have families.

Yeah. Because you don't know why. Right. And this is the thing is on the other end, right, you're seeing so many, you know, travel blogs and stuff being like, you know, I don't have kids so I can do this. Just as bad as someone on the other end of the street. I've got kids.

So, you know, I don't travel. And that makes me better than you. Because I'm like, oh, my God, you don't have kids. Why don't you have kids? Yeah. Like, oh, you can't believe you don't have kids. It's like, you know what? Maybe I didn't want them.

Yeah. And that's actually, okay, there's people in there who do not want them. And even worse, maybe I couldn't have them. Maybe I couldn't have them. Or maybe I have some seriously traumatic experiences that have led me to not have kids because I do not feel that I'm in the, I'm in the space or ability to actually repeat that trauma cycle. Very true.

That was actually one of the categories that I didn't actually mention was trauma, experience, can all have an impact on people not having children. 100%. And you can't judge someone for not having kids, but you also can't judge someone for starting a family. Exactly. The problem is that Spider-Man diagram, you know, where they were pointing at each other like,

like, ha, it's like, that's the issue. It's like, no, you're more than entitled to do what you want, but do understand that you'll derive a huge sense of fulfillment and purpose from having a family. But if you can't or if you don't want to, that does not mean your life is devoid of purpose and fulfillment. You can find it everywhere. Life in and of itself is there for you to take. I think when we talk about population decline, I think it's very important then that like we don't focus. It's hard not to focus on it.

But I think not point and blame or responsibility on the individual, but rather than, are the collective of the country, the society. It's like, okay, population decline is a very serious threat. And that's something that we should probably look into in regards to, okay, what are the societal issues that are causing us to have less and less children? But that doesn't mean blaming an individual for not having children, whether that was voluntary or involuntary. You're totally right. And the reason why you can't go blame an individual is because why is it a repeating pattern with data points for millions of people across the world. So what? You're going to say, because a million people across the world, I'm going to blame one person

for the fact they didn't want to have kids that they did. No, that doesn't make any sense because how the hell are you getting these data points if it's not from a plethora, a big test pool. So you can't go, you know, this person doesn't want a kid. They're an asshole. This person wants to have kids. Oh my God, they're so trapped. Not true, right? Why is it that population is declining on the whole. It's not just because one or two people are choosing not to have kids. It's not about personal choice. Exactly.

It's not just necessarily about personal choice. It's also about, well, do you know that probably the majority of the population, especially with regard to the housing market and the cost of living, etc., feel they're stuck between a rock and a hard place? You know many people probably want to have kids? So many, but they feel like they can't. And it's not due to lack of education. It's not due to stupidity.

It's due to being put. in a position where they're compromised. And then by the same token, on the other end, with people who don't want to have kids, right, you can't have people who are very old school in the way of thinking saying, well, you know, that's the wrong way to live your life. No, it's not. Not at all. It's not the wrong way to live your life.

Because your life has lived on your terms. You can't aim at an individual and fire. That is just not fair. That is not right. That's not balanced. You know, you've got to able to actually look at it from both ends and understand that. Look, everyone's got an outlier, right? And you've got, you know, your generalities here.

like in the middle, and then you've got your extremities on the end. And those extremities aren't people trying to cause or destroy more often than not. They're just people who think of it differently. And they're allowed to do that. They're allowed to think a little bit differently. But if you look at the overall overarching things, like why is the population declining? Well, what about people who want to have family but can't due to infertility or due to the fact that IVF may be really expensive or all these sorts of things?

But you have to have a look at the generalities of the situation, which is, yeah, women are and I said this a long time ago on one of our pods which is women are the baseline measurement for a good society if you can start to see that women do not want to have kids they're the test for whether society is good or not not men men are not to whether society is good or not women are right women have that power right and if a woman says you know I don't feel comfortable raising a family here it's not her fucking fault mate have a look at the society she's involved in. What's she afraid of?

Why doesn't she feel she can rear her children here? You know what I mean? So it's a bigger thing than, oh, we can blame an individual. We can point a finger. Bullshit. No, we can't. That's just not true.

Okay, we'll wrap it up there. He's been Ryan, the Springbok. I've been Carl, the Shamrock. And we will see you next week for more conversations and more existential crises about society. All right. Ryan, in the same country by next week?

I will still be in the Scandinavian tundra, my good sir. I will be here for the foreseeable training jets, trying to get big and building the business. All right. All right. Until next week.

Good luck. Thanks a week, man.