The Wealthy Barber Podcast - #66 — Brenda Hiscock: A Remarkable Story About Overcoming Hardships and Finding Fulfillment as a Financial Planner

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

Our guest this episode is Brenda Hiscock, a CFP with Objective Financial Partners, one of Canada's leading advice-only planning firms. Brenda's route to financial planning was anything but easy. She lost her mother as a teenager, faced homelessness, battled addiction and overcame a cancer diagnosis, all while building a decades-long career in Canadian financial services. Today, she draws on those experiences to help clients navigate both the numbers and the emotions of money. In this episode, Dave and Brenda dive into her remarkable life story: the childhood hardship and early family loss that shaped her, and the turning point that came through therapy, mentorship and self-forgiveness.  The conversation also explores a wide range of retirement topics, including practical tips for people who start their financial planning later in life, retiring abroad, planning for the potential costs of long-term care and the psychology of actually spending your savings later in life. Brenda shares her thinking on protecting parents' retirements before making gifts to their kids, using trusts to protect generational wealth, RRSP meltdowns, delaying CPP and OAS, and facing retirement with a mortgage.  This episode is packed with practical insights and an inspiring story you won't want to miss.    Show Notes (00:00) Intro & Disclaimer (00:55) Intro to Brenda Hiscock (02:09) Brenda's Childhood Hardship and Early Family Loss (05:41) The Trauma of Eviction and Developing an Addiction (07:31) The Turning Point: Therapy, Mentorship and Self-Forgiveness (10:54) Overcoming a Cancer Diagnosis and Rebuilding Confidence (11:54) Tips if You Start Financial Planning Later in Life (14:10) How Brenda's Life Experiences Have Informed Her Views on Insurance (16:00) Retiring Abroad (18:29) Managing Client Fears About the Stock Market (20:54) Planning for the Looming Potential Costs of Long-Term Care (22:40) The Psychology of Spending Your Savings Later in Life (25:08) Protecting Parents' Retirement Before Making Gifts to Their Kids (27:39) Using Trusts to Protect Generational Wealth (28:29) RRSP Meltdowns and Delaying CPP/OAS (30:04) Who Seeks Advice-Only Financial Planning? (31:01) The Impact of "Millionaire Teacher" (32:00) Raising the Standards in the Canadian Financial Planning Industry (35:00) Facing Retirement with a Mortgage (37:23) Embracing Your Authentic Life Story (39:50) Conclusion

Hey, it's Dave Chilton, the wealthy barber and former Dragon on Dragonstant. Welcome to the Wealthy Barber podcast. Well, we'll be hosting some of the top minds in the world of personal finance. Yes, that's to balance me out. The podcast is about making this subject not just easy to understand, but dare I say, even fun, honest. Whether you're trying to fund your retirement, figure out how to build a down payment, save for your kids' education, manage debts, whatever, will be here to help you.

do it. Before we jump in, a quick but important note, nothing we discuss here should be taken as investment advice. We don't know you and your personal financial situation. So we're not here to tell you we're specifically to put your investment dollars. We're here to educate, get you thinking, and we hope entertain. But please do your own research and or consult with your financial advisor before taking any action. Hey, it's Dave Chilton, the wealthy barber with the Wealthy Barber podcast. Yesterday I looked, the podcast was number one. I didn't look today because I didn't, if it was lower, I didn't want it to tell you that. So I just thought I'd stick with yesterday's number one and excited. I really am. We've got a great guest today, Brenda Hiscock. Interesting background

I'll get to in a few moments, but she's a CFP. She works for objective financial partners. That's Jason Heath's firm. A lot of you know Jason. He's been on our podcast, but also he's a prolific writer, has put out tremendous numbers of articles over the years. And they're fantastic. He's one of the best communicators in North America on the personal finance front. I read all of his articles. He is also from all reports a very fine guy. He also has high standards. So I assure you, if Brenda was one of his original hires, she's been there a very long time.

She is top drawer. So we're excited to have her because of the credibility she brings through that. But also, she has a very unusual background. Didn't travel to this industry in the normal way. She had a challenging life. And we're going to go through that and talk about how, it's influenced her and how she approaches financial planning differently because of it. So Brenda, let's start by welcoming you to the show. Thank you so much, Dave. It's great to be here.

Well, it's nice of you to say, and it's good to see you. And, you know, I read a lot about your background. And I grew up in a very charmed household. I had a very lucky life, two wonderful parents and things kind of fell my way. And I've always said people talk about male privilege and white privilege, but good parent privilege is the ultimate privilege in life to grow up feeling loved in a stable financial environment and have people in your corner at all times, gives you the ultimate head start in life. Unfortunately, you did not fall into that. You had a very tough go. Tell us a little bit about your background and some of the things you had to go through in your teenage years in particular. Well, I was raised by a single mother who had four children,

and when I was 12, she suffered a massive stroke. And she ended up hospitalized, fully paralyzed, in the hospital for 18 months and after that she passed away. So for those that year and a half, my sister, older sister and brother were looking after my younger sister and I who were 12 and 10 at the time when this started. And then after my mom passed, my sister continued to care for us for a few years. But then she had to move on to her on her own. And at that point, I was left in charge. I was about 17 or 18 years old and trying to manage my brother who was having some

personal struggles and my younger sister who was in high school and having a lot of trouble showing up for school and me being trying to be a parent at 17 years old of a 15 year old person. And I was lucky enough that they placed me in a co-op program in high school that actually paid minimum wage. And so I was able to do that. And then I had a full-time job as a waitress at night so that I could kind of fund my family expenses with my daytime job, but I was also a 17, 18-year-old young person who wanted to have fun and used that income for trying to enjoy life. So, I mean, obviously that must have been

crushing financially. I mean, no matter how many hours you work, supporting another young person and your own lifestyle and food and rent and everything else, that had to be overwhelming. Well, I mean, we were in government housing and it was very challenging. And eventually what it had happened is they work in a way that they test your income every few months. And so they had realized I had made some money and I had owed back rent. And at the time, $600 may as well have been a million dollars to me. So I received an eviction notice and I called them and I'd reach out to my father who I didn't have much of relationship with, but he had said he would help me. And we made arrangements that they were going to put the eviction off. Everything was okay. I go to work on Tuesday,

not worrying at all and I get a call on Tuesday afternoon that my house is being emptied out. So once that starts, it can't be undone. And so suddenly, and me being, honestly, the eviction, there's a lot of other things coming up that we're going to talk about. But the eviction is a single thing that has affected me in the most negative ways in my life. Because I was responsible for two other people. We all got evicted. Even though I had, done the right things, the rug still got pulled out from under me. So it became very difficult to trust anything that anyone said or even to trust myself because even after doing everything right, I still lost my home. And that's still to this day. It's trust is something I struggle with.

Well, not just the trust impact, which I'm sure is dramatic, but the research says that being evicted might be the single most traumatic thing that can happen to somebody young. That's the thing, as you said, that sticks with them most. And so what a burden to carry? How did you try to overcome that? What was the next step? Did you, were you homeless for a while there? I was homeless for a few months, sleeping on different friends' couches.

And then eventually I got an apartment with a friend of mine. And then my sister was struggling to find a place. So I brought her into the apartment. And then eventually I moved with just my sister and I, because it was a little bit too, you know, living with my friend was a bit of a party atmosphere. So we moved into our room. own place from there. But I do want to step backwards a little bit and just mention that when my mother died when I was 14, I immediately started drinking. And that was how I dealt with the pain of

losing my mother, the pain of the eviction and everything else. And so that was something that was in the background all along building. Yeah, that's horrible. So now you've got developing addiction along with the financial struggles, where did all this head? Well, I ended up having a son when I was 24 years old and the relationship with his father didn't work out. And up until he was born, I had control over things. And of course, when I was pregnant, I looked after myself. But once I had him, I didn't know at the time,

but I had postpartum depression. And that's when the daily drinking started. So I was never one to go out every weekend and get waiting. It was more like an IV drip. It was just a constant way to keep me numb. Yeah, I've seen it a lot. I mean, unfortunately, it's a big part of our society and postpartum depression. It's so much more commonplace than I think was recognized 20 and 30 years ago.

It's amazing to me that you've emerged from that background and become such a respected voice in the Canadian personal finance field. I mean, you should be incredibly proud. Was there a specific turning point where you regain direction, you regain confidence. I mean, confidence would seem to me to be the hardest thing to grab a hold of. Admittedly, there's still some struggles because when you have been an addict, you have hurt a lot of people. And you cannot undo that. And my son was 13 when I got sober. So he missed out on a lot. And so, but I'm not a good mother if I'm not forgiving myself. So I really have to look at that as well.

You know, I think there's been a lot of time where I have felt imposter syndrome and that's been a problem throughout my career. And I think this came to a head probably about seven years ago. I was having problems with my mental health. And I actually went to Jason about it, Jason Heath. And I decided to go to therapy. And because things that I was doing weren't adding up. And my behaviors weren't matching my thoughts and who I was. And so I started going to therapy. And we had a health spending account at the time. And when that was finished, and actually funded some future therapy sessions for me. And that was...

I'm not surprised. He's a gentleman. Honestly, that was such a turning point for me because it helped me to understand what was at the root of so many of these problems and how I really had to forgive myself in order to become a better person and to also recognize that even though all these things had happened to me, it didn't take away from all the knowledge that I've accumulated. I've been in the financial services industry since I was 17 years. old. And I've held a variety of high profile positions somehow through all of this, I can only

imagine where I would have gone if I hadn't have turned my life upside down. But it's, it's recovery from alcoholism was the first step in starting things. But I think there's a misconception that when you first get sober, life is going to be perfect. But actually, you're left with a giant mess. Because you've ruined all your friendships, your family relationships, money is, is a terrible situation. you really need a lot of support and it takes a lot of time to get past all of that. You talked about Jason stepping up and providing some of his own capital to help you therapy. Not only do you benefit obviously directly from the therapy, but beyond that, when a quality person is in your corner, it rebuild some of that trust you can have in other

people. You gain some confidence because you see somebody who's competent and caring realizes you have a lot of potential and can add a lot of value and be a difference maker, etc. I mean, that had to play a big role in the turnaround as well. It really, I have been blessed with amazing leaders throughout my career. In my co-op program when I was 17, the manager of the credit union sent me, flew me all over Ontario giving speeches about workers' compensation board credit union. She kept promoting me. I've just, I've been blessed with fantastic leaders throughout my career and I'm so lucky for that.

They've paid for college education, many things. Well, you and I don't know each other. at all. This is the first time we've met, but I'm very proud of you. I mean, it's overcome all of this and get back in your feet and be doing a wonderful job at work, etc. You should be proud too. And how is life now? Have you been able to put that in the rearview mirror and focus on the future and the present? I think I largely have a year after I got sober the day of actually in my 22 year sobriety date anniversary was on Monday. I was diagnosed with cancer. And so then I had a year off of work to deal with cancer. And that was a very unstable part

where it would have been easy to go back to drinking. But luckily I didn't. And so recovery from cancer and all of that sort of did delay things as well. But I would say that what has happened over the years is that I've just slowly become more and more confident. Once my son was finally finished university, I was able to start saving. And even that was really afraid, scary for me, because I had this poverty mindset. And I think sometimes you create what you believe and you do things that self-sabotage yourself. And so it really starting to save late, you really have to think things through because people want to go from zero to a hundred when they haven't done enough. and that usually results in failure.

And so when I have people approaching me about starting late, it's like, let's start small. And like personally what I did is I just started prioritizing which buckets to fill. Right. And then starting to fill them with small amounts. And I still to this day just incrementally keep increasing my automated deposits. That's good. I love to hear that.

And they just get bigger and bigger. And that allowed me to ease into it. And I realized, oh, I can see. save that much, let me try this much more and this much more. And it's really, it's worked so well for me and has really had me be able to come quite a long way in a relatively short period of time. That's all interesting. And very similar to trying to get in good physical shape, that the people who go absolutely crazy out of the gate and cut their calories back to a thousand a day and work out two hours, you can't sustain it. You can't keep with it. And it can often have

negative health impacts, but by easing into it, being realistic, focusing long term. It sounds like you're on the right path and have done good things. Before we wind on air, you said something very basic, but so true. And I have said it in many interviews, when you start late, you have to work longer. And that's basic arithmetic. And I mean, you're right. Generally, there's always the exception for somebody who's hit a spectacular success investing or made huge money late in life.

But for the most part, if you get the saving going in your 40s and 50s, that means you're enough to delay retirement until some point your mid to late 60s. That's just, again, basic arithmetic. Well, I think the other thing to think about is that sometimes we might not be able to work until we're 70. So we have to have backup plans. So for example, if I was forced to stop working in the next few years, then one of my backup plans would be to move abroad and retire abroad where I can live a nice lifestyle at a much lower cost of living. And so I think that when you're starting to save late, you need to have multiple scenarios because you can't be sure how long you can work. So you also have to understand what will happen if you can't work as long as you want to.

Now, because you've been through so many major challenges, it probably makes you a better financial advisor in many ways. Like you're thinking not just about the math, but about real life and how it often doesn't go as planned. I'll give you an example. Did your mother have proper life insurance when she passed away? I'm guessing not. She had no life insurance. and four children, and we had absolutely nothing. And had my mother had life insurance, my entire life would be different. On the flip side of that, when I got cancer, I had disability insurance, so I was okay. And so to me, insurance is the foundation of any good financial plan, because if you have

not prepared for the contingencies, then all of the rest can fall to the wayside very quickly in the event of an unexpected event. No, it's so true. And most people are living their life one of one, but you and I get to see hundreds, if not thousands, of financial plans in people's lives. And unfortunately, accidents happen. Early death happens. You've been through it for heaven's sakes. It's amazing to me how many very intelligent people you meet who do not have proper amounts of life insurance. I find a lot of entrepreneurs in particular are very weak in this area. they have a successful business. They're finally starting to get things going,

and they don't have me life insurance. If something happens to them, their family's in a horrible spot. So I'm guessing that you do a very good job of communicating that effectively and really pushing your clients to have the right amount of insurance in place. Absolutely.

I think that it is, again, like the foundation of a plan, and it is something that even if it's not something that is part of our engagement, I'm always going to mention life insurance and what do you have? and a little needs assessment, especially if there's children involved, just because it is so incredibly important. In your practice, when you're doing your financial plans,

are you focused on a certain niche right now, or are you doing broad-based planning? I have a few niches. I work with cross-border planning. I work with expatriate planning. And I probably, what I'm more focusing now on is people approaching or in early retirement, because I think that's the demographic that I can read. the most too. Yeah, they need the help. We've talked a lot on the podcast about retirement

income planning and how important it is to optimize from a tax perspective and how challenging it is. We don't know how old we're going to live to be. We don't know what the returns are going to be. We don't know what the inflation rate's going to be. You can see why computer software and having a range of different outcomes is important and talking all of this through. It's interesting you bring up the expats. Are you seeing more people looking to leave Canada late in life? I certainly have noticed that, not a mega trend. I'm not talking about I'm running across hundreds and thousands of people do it, but I'm definitely seeing more of it than I did five and 10 years ago. Absolutely. I do have a number of clients that are thinking about retiring abroad. I also have a

number of clients who go over to move abroad for work purposes as well. Right. But definitely more people are retiring abroad than I had seen, say, 10 years ago when I started out. And it's an interesting group of people to work with as well. You know what I find fascinating is the disparity in outcomes. So when I look at the group of people I've known who've moved abroad late in life, some of them have enjoyed it tremendously. But I'll have to admit, a big percentage have wished a year and two later so they hadn't done it.

They've had trouble adjusting. They haven't had that same friend group around, the same family group, different cultural. And again, some people embrace that and enjoy it. But others really miss the home life they had here in Canada. And in many instances have come back, in fact. That's very true. I moved to Vancouver for a year and I really missed my son and ended up coming back just because I found it really hard to be away from him. No, that makes a lot of sense. So how old is he now? You don't have to give us a lot of personal details, but you said he was out of university and is he enjoying his career?

He's 35 years old. He's a producer on CTV your morning and he also does some television segments on the show as well. I'm really proud of him. He's really doing well. Hey, tell him if you can get any job in TV. right now. You've got to be pretty talented. That's a tough industry. And I've done that show. So good for him. You know, he should be proud of himself. That's good. And it's good. You're back in Toronto area. And I'm sure you're seeing him a lot as well. On the business front, what are you seeing out there right now? Where are people falling down? What are their concerns, their fears? What kinds of things they're bringing up that you have to try to calm them down and say, look, there's ways around this and we can work through it. I think people really worry about falling markets early in retirement. And so running a plan that

has scenarios where we're looking at falling markets to see the impact of that on a plan is really important. I think there's always a fear of just not knowing what to do. There's a huge shift when you go from earning a paycheck to paying yourself. And it's very intimidating. And as soon as balances start going down, that can be very intimidating as well. So in my mind, having a plan in place, you know what you should be withdrawing every year and you know where you're going to end up. And so that can help to take the stress out of making these annual withdrawals because you know that was supposed to happen. We're still going to end up here if we do this. And it works out really well. They're also really concerned about timing of CPP and OAS,

which is quite frankly a big decision. And we don't want people taking CPP at 60 in almost all the cases. And so trying to catch people before they start that as well. Going back to fear, the sequence of returns risk, and what happens if the markets perform poorly? You know, in the last 10, 20 years, for the most part, with exceptions, but the markets have been so robust that people have been able to see their balances rising while they've also been taking out the money they need on an annual basis. And they haven't had to face some of that stress they were so concerned with. I worry now with valuations being fairly rich. At some point, we're inevitably going to have a significant correction. It's part of investing in markets, stock markets in particular. And then people

could really get hit by it psychologically. So you're right. Having a plan ahead of time, one that shows worst case scenarios, how bad it can be for a year and two and three or stretches. Let's set the plan up to get us through that. We'll have buckets we can get at, etc.

That's such an important psychological weapon in dealing with us and preparing them. Absolutely. Because I think probably most of us, I know I have a very big fear of running out. And I think that that's a very common fear. And planning can really show you how not to run.

out and how to make sure that doesn't happen and how to make sure that you're covered if you have a long-term care need or other things arise that are unexpected. Yeah, it's amazing. Even in the two years we've been doing the podcast, how much the long-term care need is coming up relative to, again, a short period of time ago. So people used to say, oh, you've got the go-go years. You're going to travel and spend in your retirement, your 60s and early 70s, then the no-go or the slow-go years come, but now you've got this looming potential cost of needing in-home help or needing to go to assisted living. And we can be talking, what, you could be talking tens of thousands a month in some cases, but certainly six, eight thousand a month on the low end. How do people plan around that when

you don't even know you're going to end up facing that risk? That's a tough one. I think that in many cases, many people will want to retain the value of their home as an asset. And so if they end up with a long-term care need. They have the equity in their home to fulfill that need is a very common approach. People who are renting, we usually want to have them set aside some kind of a buffer. And I think something that I do is I build in travel buffers and things like that for early years of expenses, but I don't drop anything in the mid-80s for expenses because back when I was in insurance. I remember hearing a statistic that as a couple, 88% of couples, one or the other of them will need some form of long-term care if they live a full life. And so that's a very,

it's probably going to happen. So we need to make sure this whole die was zero. I won't take a plan down to zero because that wouldn't be in the client's best interests. Yeah. And I mean, let's be honest, we're both seeing it. I mean, I saw it with my father. And the cost went way up when he needed assisted living and some outside help, et cetera. I have many friends who's parents, are going through the same type of thing. So you're right, you have to be somewhat conservative on that front. Have you had trouble getting some of the retiree clients to spend? We've had a lot of experts come on and say that they've been accumulating all their life.

We've been teaching them to save. The wealthy barber's been saying, pay yourself first. Now we wanted them to spend money and we can't get them to do it. This is the most common thing we come across because I think that most of the people who are coming and paying for financial planning services usually have more than enough. Yes. And this is where the psychology comes in. And I'm always talking to my clients about what kind of messaging did you get growing up about money?

And what are your thoughts about money? Is it a bad thing? Is it an opportunity? Does it represent status? What does money mean to you? Because for some people like myself, it's something to be feared and which I've had to take a lot of time to try to switch that over to be an opportunity. And so digging into what their thoughts are. because I've met many people who with sold things.

I have a great example of a couple who had done so well financially and they didn't ever treat themselves to anything. And so I had to talk with them about what are some things you really, really love? And he loved really fancy watches and she loved really fancy purses. And so I actually built a purchase of those things

into their plan and said, look, it doesn't do a thing to your plan. Six months later, we had a meeting. He was sporting his new watch and she had her bag sitting on the table. And that, to me, was a big victory. No, and good for you. I think I like a lot about that story,

but I like the fact that he showed them that the lump sum not big enough to really alter the plan in terms of the cash flow going forward. That's a good way to teach people that this is okay. So occasionally indulge in something that's going to give you great joy. And again, you can't do it with everything, but you can do it with some things.

And I agree, getting people to spend later in life is often a huge challenge. Their mindset's just not there. And then you mentioned earlier the fear of running out and the fear of markets turning south. And so you add all those things together. And it's tough to get people to spend their money in some instances. And even if they have a plan, they'll still be reluctant. What I do find is when I have clients who see me year over year over year,

they do tend to loosen up more and more over time. Whereas if I just see them once and then maybe I see them five or six years later, they often haven't really changed a lot about what they do. but I do find if they keep getting that message presented to them over and over again, they do tend to start to change their habits more. What I see a lot of is building more gifting into plans and people recognizing that their kids can use their money now, much more than they can use it when they're 60 or 70 when they pass away. I would argue that might be the biggest trend shift we've seen is the last five and 10 year,

the number of people looking to give money to their kids and grandkids. kids way early. And they're just saying, I want them to enjoy it. Well, I can still see them enjoying it, but also to your point, they can do a lot more with it now than they will be able to at 70. They can pay off their non-deductible debt. Could be credit card debt and something. They can maximize their TFSA. All of those, they can travel a little bit with their young kids. So for all those reasons, if they can afford to do it, they're now finally coming out and doing more of that, which is a good thing to see. I did get a little concerned as the housing market went ballistic until relatively recently, you had some parents helping kids out with down payments where I felt

that they went far enough to put their own retirement into a tough situation, where if things didn't work out in a rosy fashion, they could be in trouble themselves. Well, this is where it's like on the airplane, you give yourself the oxygen mask first before you start helping others. Yeah, good analogy. And so I always tell people that let's make sure that you can afford this gift and that's not going to upend your plan because the last thing we want to have happen is to have your kid supporting you later in life. Nobody's going to like that. So I always suggest people check the

gifts, make sure they're doable. I've had a couple of cases in the last couple of weeks that we had to change the, reduce the amount of the gifts significantly in order for things to work. And they were ready to hand over that cash. So it's a really good thing that we got together and they decided to take a look first. No, I like that analogy of the oxygen. You're exactly right. Because if that blows up, then you've got an even worse case scenario down the road where somebody's coming in and the kids are having to take care of the 85 year old, et cetera, and that can be very difficult from a lot of perspective. So that makes a lot of sense to me.

When you're doing the advice only planning, how do people find you? We have so many, I have a two or three month wait list just to get a call in with me. And we do very little marketing. And I think that much of my business is coming through referrals, but all, Also, I think Jason's articles have been enough marketing because we have done, we have really just started to market in the past couple of years. And we have always been, had more business than what we've been able to manage. As you look again at your life and you had some addiction challenges, are you seeing more people considering using trusts when they leave money to kids and grandkids? So to make sure that that money is not spent battling, whether it's a gambling addiction or whatever else,

I'm seeing that usage go up quite significantly the last five to 10 years. Yes, it's definitely, I always talk to people about the status of their adult children. Are they going to be dependent upon them? Do we need to consider financial considerations for them? And, you know, if that's the case, then we need to build that in. And I think when you've got a beneficiary that you want to make sure they're okay, a trust that can anuitize money to the, them and pay them a specific amount each year can benefit them greatly.

Now, what about the RSP meltdown strategy? You must be getting asked a lot about that. And the software, obviously, in many instances, pushes it. And our listeners are becoming quaint with it. But it's the basic argument you're trying to smooth out your income. I'm over simplifying this to optimize from a tax perspective. In many instances, it makes sense to start taking monies out of your RSP before we traditionally did postage 71 and trying to even out the income and then delaying.

taking the CPP and the OAS. Again, the software often says that's the best way to go, and I'm sure you're using the software that the industry is embraced. Are you seeing more and more of your clients understanding that, saying yes, I think that makes sense for me? In almost all cases, taking the RRSP's earlier and delaying the CPP and the OAS will generally come out better numbers-wise. It can be difficult for people to wrap their heads around

taking money of their RSPs when they don't need it for cash flow. But again, when you've got a plan and you're showing them, and I'll show them, if you delay your CPR, your RSP's till 71, this is what your tax rates are going to look like. But if we start taking it up here at age 60 when you're retiring, we've drawn down quite a bit by the time your CPP and OAS kick in. Now we've got streamlined tax rates. You're paying much less tax over the course of your life. So I think it's important to show them the why behind the advice instead of just do this, do that. It's like here's the difference in outcomes if you go either way. Yeah, and you can avoid the clawback obviously on the OAS, which can make a very big difference in your effective tax rate, et cetera.

What kind of demographic is most seeking your counsel? Is it the baby boomers as they head towards retirement or already in retirement? Are you getting clients ever in their early 30s in that age looking for advice-only financial planning too? I get all ages. I would say the majority are probably 50. and over for retirement planning. Expat clients can be any age because I have a lot of international teachers.

But I do get, I get quite a few young people seeking investment advice and some young people looking not for like a full-arm retirement plan, but maybe like a 10-year plan. Like I want to buy a house and I want to see how that's going to play out for the next 10 years. And I do a lot of that and I think it's a great way to figure out like, you're only 30, you're not sure about so many things.

let's just look at the next 10 years and see how this all plays out. And I think that can be a great way to deal with younger people and get them started at least. Do you remember the book Millionaire Teacher? Andrew Hallam? I know him. Yes. He's a great guy. He mentioned our company in his book and that's how we started working with X-Pats.

Oh, yeah, because I was going to say he's got a big following in the X-Pact community. And of course, himself. He was an international teacher. Very smart guy. He ended up with expat clients. I did not know that. No, I'm a big fan of his. I've really enjoyed his books over the years.

And he's a nice guy. He's very much what he comes across as being in the books. Like, he's just a grounded, common sense guy. And I think he's helped a lot of people. So that's funny that you guys have an association with him. We had him on the podcast quite some time ago and it went over gangbusters. I saw it. Yeah, I really, really admire him.

I am aligned with his philosophies and beliefs. And, yeah, I really think that he's a great. great guy and he's really made such a difference in so many people's lives, as have you. Well, thank you. He's a great guy. And again, very nice person too. I'm finding, I've said this on many of our podcast that when you go to the big voices in Canadian personal finance and obviously Jason is one of them and we've talked about Ben Felix and what he's been able to accomplish, these are nice, caring people. They're eager to share.

They're eager to raise the standards of the business to help others out. They return phone calls for new people entering the industry. I think that Canadian financial advice industry is trending up. I see more financial plans probably than anybody because people won't stop sending them to me. And they are so much better now than they were 20 years ago. It's almost hard to believe. Now, some of that's the software, obviously, has really added value. But a lot of this, the people are better trained.

They're more caring. It's just a really impressive group of people at the top of the industry right now. It really is. And it's so heartening to me. to see that we've got some really great people with great integrity who really want to help people. And I am so proud and honored that what I get to do for a living is I help people. I was on a trip to Vancouver with my friends last summer and I just said, I'm so grateful that I get to go and help people and truly help them,

feel better about their lives and have peace of mind. And to me, it's just so fulfilling and rewarding. Well, and you said a lot of good things there, but I love when you said peace of mind because I have found over and over again that when somebody gets a very well done personal financial plan and they've bought into it, they've looked at it, they get why to your point, not just what to do, but the why behind it makes them more likely they'll stick with it. The peace of mind is worth the price of admission many times over. They're so much less stressed about their personal fortunes. And you look at people like you, you're helping them with their estate planning, you're helping them with their tax planning, their investment. All of it. Like it's an all-encompassing type approach.

More and more people, I think, thankfully, are starting to look into this. I agree. And I just think it's the greatest thing because I used to do product sale. And then you're always building a plan around a specific product that you want to sell. And so you can't be fully unbiased.

So I just love this environment where I'm just giving advice. I don't have any spin in the game. So I'm able to just provide clear advice and education. And, you know, I've had done some teaching in the past at Seneca College. I love it. And I really think that my job right now is teaching people one on one because we all have talents and skills.

And I think that's probably my biggest talent. And so this is a great way for me to apply that and get fulfillment. You know, I like what you said there. You're teaching. And I think that's true. I think if all you do is develop the plan and the assessments pass it over, it won't have the impact it needs to. If you're teaching the why, here's what the thing. is, here's what the software show is, here's my past experiences. This is what matches up with you.

It sticks. People buy into it. They're more likely to stick with it over the long term. So the word teaching is, is bang on. Okay, a little bit different direction. You're seeing some of the clients, 50 plus. We're hearing more and more that a lot of people, 50 plus, have debts. Deats they didn't use to have, outsized mortgages, et cetera. That may not be the kind of client coming to you, but in general, do you think that trend is real? Yes, I do. There are some, clients that I do eat that are going into retirement with mortgages or really fast-tracking, paying down your mortgages. I didn't buy my first place until I was 55, so I'm a person with a mortgage, and I am really trying to fast-track that. Right. And so that to me is a priority,

because also, like, financial planning isn't only numbers. It's also, if I really don't like debt, then I have to honor that. And so we have to have to be. have to balance the two. And so I do think for sure there are more and more people going into retirement with mortgages and or trying to fast track and get them paid down quickly before they retire. It's definitely something I'm seeing more of even within my practice. I thought it was interesting when we had Morgan Howells-Lon, the very famous author of The Psychology of Money, the all-time bestselling personal finance book and what a class act he is. And he talked about how he's like you. He doesn't like debt. And he said, look, I know that paying off a 4% debt is not probably my

best move mathematically relative to, say, investing in a standard and poor's index fund, but I don't want that debt. And so he hammers away at it and gets rid of it. He knows himself. He knows what provides him with happiness, peace of mind to use your earlier expression, and all of that's important. But I would argue, it's doubly in reporting as you go into retirement where the research clearly says that debt causes people lot of stress. So focusing on getting rid of it, fast-tracking the payments to again use your expression makes a lot of sense for most people, not for all, but for most people that makes sense to me. Yeah, I mean, of course, my RSP is my first priority because of my income level. But beyond that, the mortgage is the thing that that's really getting attacked as quickly as possible just because

of my feelings around that. Well, I want to help you do that. And so make sure you tell Jason, I said to pay you more. I'm actually, again, this is basic math. This is basic math. I'm a commission-based employee. People always tell me I should write a book about my life story, but I'm not a writer. Well, I don't know about that. You're a very good communicator, and I will say you come across very authentically. You seem like a nice person to me. And again, when you grow up like I did, you know, I was gifted a good life through those parents.

You had a much tougher road to take. And you've turned out very well. You're adding a lot of values we've said earlier. I think you should be incredibly proud of what you've overcome and the fact that you're now out there helping other people to manage their money better. I'm proud of you. I really am and I wish you nothing but the best going forward. Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate that.

It's been a long journey and it hasn't been easy. And sharing my story is not easy because some people won't want to work with someone who has had a life like mine. But so far it hasn't hurt me. And I do know for sure when I have done my story in the past, When this comes out, I will for sure get a whole bunch of messages from people asking about addiction. And that is the reward of sharing my story. And you can help and you can show what's possible and how it can be overcome and a good life can be created and led. And also, I think a lot of people would be eager to work with someone who had overcome obstacles who's real,

who has seen that life can throw unexpected things at you and therefore thinks that way as a planner. how do we have contingency plans, something you talked about earlier, how do we make sure that we've got proper insurance in place? A lot of the bad experiences you went through, I'm sure, have made you a better planner. I would agree wholeheartedly with that. I think especially, like, empathy, there's been so many things that I have experienced that is very easy for me to have empathy because there's so many things that have gone in my life that I can empathize very easily with people who are in,

difficult situations. And I also do a lot of work with people with disabilities or children with disabilities just because that's another area that's a hard thing to plan for and emotionally difficult. And I feel like emotional stuff is where I might be able to do my best work. Yeah, I can instinctively believe that. You seem like that kind of person. Let's end with a good plug again for the RDSPs, the registered disability savings plans. We've not done enough on the podcast about them. We've brought them up a few times. But for people who qualify, they can be a gigantic difference maker. And so make sure if you're one of the people who thinks they may qualify that you check

them out. Look, I really enjoyed the interview immensely again. You seem like a lovely person and a person who really takes a lot of pride in what she does and wants to help and make a big difference for people. So congrats on overcoming everything. I'm thrilled the way it's turned out for you. And we'd love to see you again. Thank you, David.

It's truly been an honor to be here. And I want to thank you for all that you've done for the movement of financial literacy. It's just been incredible. I've worked at many institutions where we have given away your book. I gave my son your book when he was younger. It's such a simple concept, but those are the types of concepts that work for so many people. And I'm sad to see that you're retiring, but I'm happy for you. And I wish you all the best in your retirement and enjoy your grand...

You're having a granddaughter? Yeah, granddaughter's on the way. And all I really heard there was you call me simple. But that's okay. I'm just kidding. Ready people have. Anyway, Brando's great having you on and I'm sure we'll see each other again. I would love that. And I thank you so much for your time.

And it was truly a pleasure. Thank you.