The Wealthy Barber Podcast - #69: Mike Lipkin: How to Find Purpose in Life and Retirement

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

Our guest this episode is Mike Lipkin — motivational speaker, executive coach and founder of Environics/Lipkin, a Toronto-based research and motivation company. Mike has spoken to more than a million people across 43 countries, authored 18 books on leadership and high performance, and has built his career around helping people play at their best. In this episode, Dave and Mike dive into what it takes to build a life of purpose in retirement, starting with the sobering statistics linking retirement and depression and why so many men in particular struggle once they stop working. They cover the habits that keep you energetic and fit as you age, including six daily practices that can extend your life span, the case for mini home workouts and the neuroscience behind why personal growth matters more than ever in your later years. The conversation also gets personal. Mike opens up about his own battle with severe depression and how he rebuilt his life, shares inspiring stories of lifelong learning and choosing impact over comfort, and warns about the atrophy that can set in early in retirement if you don't stay involved. He also reflects on balancing travel and independence in marriage, his spectacular success investing in tech stocks, lessons from 44 years of marriage and a preview of his upcoming book. Whether you're approaching retirement, already there or simply want to age with more energy and purpose, this episode is full of practical wisdom you can put to work right away.    Show Notes (00:00) Intro & Disclaimer (00:55) Intro to Mike Lipkin (04:08) Retirement and Depression Statistics (07:45) Staying High Energy and Fit as You Age (09:39) Six Daily Habits to Extend Your Life Span (12:08) The Benefits of Mini Home Workouts (14:09) Mike's Story About Overcoming Depression and Rebuilding (17:03) Why Men Struggle with Purpose in Retirement (18:59) The Neuroscience of the Importance of Personal Growth in Retirement (21:23) Staying in Shape as You Age (23:29) Inspiring Stories of Lifelong Learning (26:17) Impact Over Comfort (28:06) The Danger of Atrophy in Early Retirement if You Don't Stay Involved (31:44) Balancing Travel and Independence in Marriage (33:53) Mike's Spectacular Success Investing in Tech Stocks (39:51) Lessons From 44 Years of Marriage (42:35) Mike's Upcoming Book (45:21) Conclusion

Hey, it's Dave Chilton, the wealthy barber and former Dragon on Dragon Stand. Welcome to the Wealthy Barber podcast. Well, we'll be hosting some of the top minds in the world of personal finance. Yes, that's to balance me out. The podcast is about making the subject not just easy to understand, but dare I say, even fun, honest. Whether you're trying to fund your retirement, figure out how to build a down payment, save for your kids' education, manage debts, whatever, will be here to help you.

do it. Before we jump in, a quick but important note, nothing we discuss here should be taken as investment advice. We don't know you and your personal financial situation. So we're not here to tell you we're specifically to put your investment dollars. We're here to educate, get you thinking, and we hope entertain. But please do your own research and or consult with your financial advisor before taking any action. Hey, it's Dave Chilton, the wealthy barber, podcast. We are the hottest podcast in the land. Literally. This podcast is on fire in terms of number of viewers, growth, the whole shebang. So thank you again.

I'm excited about today. I've got an old friend, he and I worked together 30 years ago the first time and then a few times since. Mike Lipkin. I'm going to tell you some background info and it's a little bit of a different introduction. Mike is a tremendous investor. In fact, I think you could argue among all the people I know, he's probably put up the best track record. His Lfrisher training is not an investing, by the way. He does have a B column from University of Johannesburg in South Africa.

He's advertising background. He's a very sharp guy, but investing is not his background. But much before I did, he spotted opportunity in the tech stocks in the U.S., the network effect, the marginal cost of zero, et cetera. He was ahead of the curve. These things are all understood now, but he got him back involved literally 30 years ago. But more interesting to me is he never sold. So you can imagine building a portfolio of the big tech names and never sell.

telling how spectacularly well he's done, but he's not here to talk about that. Then some of you know him because he's an outstanding motivational speaker. One of the best in the country. I've seen him many times. He captivates his audiences. Great turns of phrases. Great humor really is impactful. He gets you thinking, but he isn't here to talk about that.

Third thing he's very interesting at is he has a lot of unique and powerful insights about relationships. I've had a chance to speak to him about relationships a few times over the years. he's been married for 44 years and his wife on occasion still speaks to him. But he is not here to talk about that. Why do I have Mike on the show? Because he is very knowledgeable about the psychology of retirement and what can go right, what can go wrong.

We may branch into those other subjects too. And there's a lot of people on this who are experts. But I have found that his tips, his thoughts over the years have matched up extremely well to the experiences I've seen my friends go through. He has a good instinct for which one of these theories out there really, again, in real life, are happening and how to deal with all of the challenges and so on and so forth. So Mike, welcome to the podcast. Dave, thank you so much. And look, that's probably one of the best introductions I've ever received. You know, I'm good at investing. I'm not going to talk about that. I'm good at speaking.

I'm not going to talk about that. I'm good at relationships. I'm not going to talk about retirement that I don't know that much about, which is what's going to make this a really special conversation? You may not know that much officially, but again, the insights you've shared have been very good. And I think you've transitioned a lot of your motivational material to what's going to continue to work for people

as they leave the workforce and to retirement. So we'll jump into that in a second. And again, I want to repeat something I said earlier. I'm being low-key when I say Mike has been a good investor. I really don't know anybody who's put up the numbers, Mike has investing. He really has. I always say our audits you can't outperform the market. It's almost impossible. But a key word there is almost. He has outperformed the market. And again, he's

stuck with those stocks. So let's jump into retirement by this challenging and a bit awkward introduction. You've talked openly about dealing with some depression challenges in your life. And I believe that spurred you on to doing some research about how often you see depression in retirement. Go ahead and run with that. Dave, what a great way to introduce. me because, you know, when people ask me why I'm always motivated, because my standard response, when people ask me how I am, I go outstanding. And they go, how can you always be outstanding? And I go, look, I attend all my own motivational seminars. That's why I'm motivated. But Dave, let me tell you, I became a motivational speaker to heal myself because back in 1989, I was in Canada. I was doing really

well. I was working at a big ad agency, Ogilvy and Mayther, and we had a beautiful house up in Farnhill my wife saw another house that she wanted. So, because I was still naive at that point when it had come to buying houses, we bought a house without selling, which of course is the Cardinal sin. But God's got a sense of humor because in the gap between buying, not selling, the market tanked. Like, remember what happened to real estate at the 990? So the mortgage rate went from like 5 to 10 percent almost overnight. I got caught with two houses. And I could handle the payments, but what I couldn't handle Dave was the fracturing of my ego. I thought, Mr. Lipkin, if you're so smart, how could you have let this happen? And because advertising or marketing, Dave, is a confidence game.

I lost my confidence. And if I lost my confidence, I lost everything. Anyway, long story short, I got massively depressed. In fact, it was so bad, Dave, that we had to go back to South Africa because my wife had her social infrastructure there. And then I healed in South Africa, built my reputation as a motivational speaker, and then came back where I began again. gain in 2002 when we came back. But to come back to your point around the stats around depression, so the data is that the number or the percentage of people who get depressed in retirement is anywhere from one in four to one in three. And in fact, the data says that roughly double the number of people who are retired get depressed versus the working population. And here's a

scarier statistic over time, that depression can rise to 40% because after the kind of honeymoon period of retirement, you then realize you've still got a way to go and you don't have a purpose, you don't have a drive, you don't have a reason to wake up in the morning. Now, I will tell you, there is another stat, and there's always one hand versus the other hand. But here's the beautiful stat that I love is that in certain cases, the percentage of retirees, you, and there's always one hand, get to Presti is have that of the working group. And there's one very important distinction, Dave, and that is, are you retiring from something or are you retiring to something? And that's the importance of the plan. That's the importance of purpose. That's the importance of having a series of

activities that sustain your life force. So, Dave, I know that you and I have spoken about the impending retirement because no one lives forever. But when you retire, Dave, I know that you've got a series of projects you're going to be pursuing. So you are not just going to do nothing. Yes, on this podcast is this. You want to retire into something, not just be forced to retire from something. So if you've got choice in the matter, then you're likely to be more motivated, but if you feel like it was forced on you, then you're likely to be someone who suffers from that depression. I want to get back to all that, but I want to take a quick detour because I'm always fascinated when I see you by your energy. And for those people watching the podcast and seeing

Mike for the first time, you're thinking, okay, is this guy a motivational speaker? Is this really authentic? I guarantee you it is. He is the same at all times. I've known him for 30 years, literally, exactly 30 years. He's always the same, positive, high energy. But you're 68 years old. Your energy hasn't waned one iota since you and I first met. How do you stay so high energy? I mean, obviously, fitness has played a big role in that. Well, Dave, you know, I could say exactly the same about you. In fact, I look at you and other than a little bit more pronounced crow feet, they're there. And the same. Exactly the same. In fact, you look fitter. So for me, Dave, here's the interesting thing. My father died at 42 of heart disease. And so I stand or I sit here before you. I have a resting heart rate of 47 and courtesy of a drug called rapha, which is a massively effective cholesterol-lowering.

drug from Amgen, my cholesterol level now is around about two, and anything under 4.9 is considered normal. Now, when I was growing up, the one thing my father did do before he passed is he made me work out intensively. He made me swim every single morning. So winter or summer, he would wake me up at 4.30 in the morning. I'd go for my swimming training, and then I'd do whatever else I had to do. And that has stood me in good stead. So Dave, here's the thing, whether it's your physical energy or whether it's financial energy, energy is your life force. So energy is about the fuel that drives you. And so just talking to you is genuinely exciting to me. And so I think the older you get, the more excited you should be about the opportunity to do this. So if you'd ask me where my energy

comes from, there's six things. And I've always wanted to be a Harvard graduate, Dave. So last year, I did a six-week program through the Harvard Medical School. And it was called coaching for lifestyle medicine. And Dave, there are six things that you've got to do to extend your health span. The first is you've got to get seven hours sleep a night. The second is you've got to work out five times a week, 30 minutes a time. The third is you've got to have a Mediterranean diet. The fourth is you've got to learn to meditate and quieten your mind. The fifth is you've got to surround yourself with people you love and who love you. And then as something you said to me just before we got on the podcast, don't consume anything that's going to dull your senses. Don't self-medicate. Stay away from risky substances. So, Dave,

that's how you sustain your energy. And frankly, that's what I sell. So we're living in an age where knowledge and the data has been commoditized. It's called Chachcchip2 or Claude. It is the person delivering the data that's the differentiator. So the irony, Dave, is the more we use AI, the more important the human factor becomes. There's a reason why you, the number one podcast, Dave, and I've listened to 20 podcasts in preempties. for this. You're so good at making your guests want to say even more, and it's you people are buying as much as the data that your podcast is revealing. Does that make sense? No, thank you. I appreciate the compliment. Have you always adhered to a fairly strict diet, or is that something that came about later

in late? Well, Dave, when you see your father have his first heart attack at 38, my father's first heart attack was 38, and I was 13 years old at the time, and it was my bar mitzvah, right? So that's when in religion, you become an adult. So on the day, literally on the day of my bar mitzvah, Dave, my father was in hospital. He couldn't even come to the synagogue to see his only son become a man. So that has a major impact on you. And I swore to myself, I would never be like that. And I would do everything I could do to control it. So Dave, right now, you and I live in what we call the circle of concern, and we live in the circle of control. So what I can control, Dave, is how do I show up? What I cannot control is what happens south of the border, what happens to the exchange rate,

or whether we're going through climate change. Now, if you think, Dave, and this is a key point I want to mention, if your circle of control is bigger than others, simply because you believe you can control, guess what, Dave, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I tell folks, Dave, you'll smile at this. I am living proof that confidence alone can get you through life. Now, listen, before we get back to the most important subject and dealing, with retirement, depression, et cetera.

I want to talk about one other thing for audience. You and I share an unusual approach to working out. We both tend to do a lot of mini workouts in our homes. You were just showing me, and I did not know this until moments ago that you have a 30-pound barbell, and before calls, you'll do curls, you'll do whatever, and that you do the farmer. Yeah, you and I are the exact same. I have one always around me.

I have the farmer's walk at 55 pounds each. I keep the push-up stands that I've spoken about in the podcast. and those mini workouts, you do them six, seven, eight times a day, they really add up and are a difference maker. It becomes part of your lifestyle. So for me, not working out literally seven days a week, whether it's a micro workout or an intense workout is unthinkable. Because by the end of the day, I've got so much going on in my head that without the exertion

of effort, or should we say, the exorcism of all the demons in my head, that I can only get from working out intensely without that, then I don't sleep. And you and I both know that if you don't sleep, the next day is not going to go well. So what I would say to the folks on this call is, you want to make your regimen, your religion. So in other words, there is a certain way of doing things on any given day. There's a guy called Charles Duhigg who wrote a book called Power of Habit. And he says, we all have gateway habits. Now, here's an interesting one for you, Dave. My gateway habit is I only work out between 9 p.m. and 10 p.m. at night. Why? Because if I'm working out at 9 p.m. I can't consume anything that gets in the way. And by 10 p.m., even though I'm pretty fit by 68, I'm pretty tired.

So then I'm in bed by midnight, and then I'm up at 7 in the morning. So that's the kind of regimen. That's the discipline that I hold myself to. Yeah, I enjoyed that book, by the way. It didn't get quite as much traction as the other book on habits, but I thought it was very well-done book. And I mean, you are your habits to. A large degree. Well, no, you've done well. You've stayed in great shape. Now, I'm going to ask you a very personal question, going back to your own battles with depression, how did you pull yourself out of it? So when you were able to come back to Canada and you had got back your positivity, etc. What was that process like? Yeah. So, Dave, what a great question. And, you know, we have a mutual friend, Simon Lewis. And I heard you quote Simon in the previous podcast as well, where he resisted the urge to sell in the 2008, 2009 kind of crashes as a word. Now, Now, why am I bringing up Simon? Because Simon worked at Royal Bank at that stage and I was his account guy. And he saw me as this energy, this high energy, make it happen kind of guy. And then when I got into depression, Simon actually had lunch with me and he tried to do whatever he could to help me, including finding me another job. And nothing he said to me could help. So when I went into the depression, ironically, Dave, the sense of learned helplessness is what saved me. Because I knew I couldn't do it by my. myself. And so going back to South Africa allowed me, number one, to make peace with the fact that I had screwed up monumentally. So my ego had no chance anymore because when you go back to your

own country, you know that you've messed up. Then I had a decade, Dave, to put my life back together. And as it happened, when I went back to South Africa, Mandela was released from prison. So South Africa went from this dictatorship to the world's most vibrant democracy. And I was there at that moment. And so as suddenly as it hit on me, it then evaporated and then I found my purpose again. Now, Dave, why am I telling you all of that? Because I came back to Canada in 2002. I was already 40 years old and no one knew who I was. No one cared what had happened like 11 years before. And so it was beautiful because at the age of 42, I was a blank canvas. And no one remembered that I'd messed up. So people get kind of wrapped around their own axle because

they think when people wake up in the morning, they're thinking about them. They're not. They're thinking about themselves. That's so true. So first of all, there was the massive planet, but I was 42 years old. I found my purpose again, decided to come back to Canada, recalibrated myself. And I aligned myself with a great research company called the Environics Research Group, which is a very well-known research group. And one of the biggest, and my business partner is a wonderful guy called Michael Adams. Now, Michael is 10 years older than me, but Michael is probably the, you know, the the youngest 78 or 79-year-old you'll never find. And I said to him, Michael, I can take your data and turn it into narratives and we can have some fun and make some money together. And all he said

to me was this, David. He said, well, that sounds good, but I have a strict rule not to go into business with someone until we've had lunch. So we had lunch. We signed the proverbial back of a napkin. And I've been in business with him now since 2002. Well, good for you. You can notice when you're listening carefully to your answer is that purpose is a word that continues to come up. And we're going to get back to the retirement situation right now and how a lot of people lose their purpose. And as you know, a lot of the data says that men, I'm not trying to be against men here, but men tend to struggle even more with retirement on the depression front than women do. And maybe they've identified themselves in some instances more by their career and therefore

they feel they've lost their purpose. Is that in your mind the biggest key? You've got to continue to add value. You can't just, in essence, even be doing nonstop hobbies. You've got to add value. Dave, 100%. Now, one of the reasons why men suffer from depression at sometimes twice the rate of women, especially at that old age, is they're not great at building social networks. True. They're not great at forming relationships. And Dave, men somehow feel they've got to sort it out themselves. They've got to feel, man, I can handle this and I shouldn't have to ask for help, whereas women tend to do that very easily. That's number one.

Number two, Dave, and I look at you. I look how much work goes into this podcast, and I know you've got a range of other projects. You haven't chosen comfort, and I don't want to choose comfort. In fact, if I have a mantra, Dave, it's impact over comfort. Interesting. Now, I designed my life that I can continue doing this because a lot of what I do, Dave, is coaching.

And what I'm seeing right now with the advent of AI is that, We're all neophytes. We're all experiencing AI. So there's a great combination of age and experience with the novelty of this technology. So irrespective of your age, you've got to become a master of AI because that gives you the material from which to work. But my intention, as I look at the next 20 years, to become an elder, but not elderly. That's well said. And I couldn't agree with you more. Going back to your retirement observations, we've talked about how personal growth remains an important component of retirement. I just mentioned in a previous podcast that my father is big into this. He thinks if you go into retirement, even if you're doing fun things,

you've got hobbies, unless you're pushing yourself coming out of your comfort zone to grow, you're in trouble. And a story I tell about him because I think it's so illuminating when he was 85, he took lessons on how to chip better in golf, but he wasn't golfing anymore. But he said, I don't want to die a bad chipper. And so he went and took chipping lessons. He's very much into How do you get better at something? He's not like that with everything, but he'll pick one or two or three things. I think for a lot of people in retirement, they stop being that way. Dave, that's exactly right.

And I'll give you two neuroscience facts here because I wrote a book two years ago with a noted psychiatrist called Dr. Diane McIntosh. And the first is when we come out of the womb, Dave, we are our genetics, our DNA. That's the raw material. But Dave, what we do with our genetics is called epigenetics. So after this call, Dave, you and I will be different people than before this call. Because simply engaging in this never before done event, you've never spoken to me before in this format. I've never spoken to you.

My brain is making new connections and that's called neuroplasticity. So the great thing about human beings is that our brain has the capacity to keep on evolving and changing depending on how we challenge it. So here's my message to anyone listening, Dave, and that is this. Your mind and your brain expands in direct proportion to the challenges you set it. So what I love right now is anytime I'm in a crisis, the first response is one of the alarm, right? Because that's my lizard brain going, uh-oh, it's going to be a challenging. But then my neocortex kicks in and I go, hang on a second, if I can resolve this, then I'm going to expand my brain, I'm going to develop a new skill, I'm going to become more valuable to the folks around me.

And Dave, I kid you not, I end up saying, God, thank you for this crisis. Because as the saying goes, the crisis is a terrible thing. So I think the older we get, the more intentional we need to become, training ourselves in new skills, finding new opportunities for our brain to engage in this neuroplasticity and evolve and grow. You've done a great job, again, of staying in shape and keeping your energy high. And I think one of the things I push a lot of friends to do is that exact thing, because then you have the energy to take advantage of these types of opportunities and a new challenge comes along and you push yourself always to leave your comfort zone. When you are not in good shape and you're letting yourself get older at too quick a pace, it becomes tough.

You don't have those reserves to pull on. Well, you know, David, at the start of the school just before we went live, I mentioned that I was quite impressed with your shirt. And I say this because, Dave, you are the quintessential Peter Pan. I mean, you're a guy who has designed his life so that you could live it on your terms. You've designed your life so you get joy from it. And it hasn't always been easy. And a lot of people would look at you and go, how come this guy lives by himself? And how come he does this and how come he does that?

Because that's your code, Dave. Now, I say this to you because I look at you. And you and Rob Lowe share something in common. And you don't seem to age. Well, I'll take that comparison. Thank you. But Dave, let me say this. So my nightmare is that you meet me at any moment and you go, oh, he's out of shape.

I can see he used to be in shape. Oh, but now he's gone soft. So someone gave me this quote, David. I've never forgotten it. As you age, you get the face you deserve. Interesting. So how many folks do you know who were incredibly good looking in their teens and their 20s and their 30s? and then they overdid the good stuff.

And by the way, expensive wine will take its toll on you as cheap berber. So over time, either you become better looking or you grow into yourself or you tend to reveal the neglect that you've put yourself through. So I always want to be someone, and I'll give you this quote, Dave, I want to be the reason why people believe in their own ability to age gracefully. In fact, one of my favorite commercials is for Jurex. Not that I use them these days, but there's a great commercial. In fact, it's a bullboard and it said grow old disgracefully.

That's very funny. About maybe 10 years ago, I was invited to a wedding and was single at the time. And the people inviting me said, we have someone we want you to sit with kind of a setup. And I got there and she was 96. And it was one of the best quasi dates of my life in that we had so much fun. But she was telling me that she had just learned French over the last three. years. She started when she was 93, and she learned it. She put her walkman on her ears and walked backward around the high school track. So every day she would go for an hour walking

backwards because she'd heard that was very good for muscle control, mind, etc. While simultaneously learning French, I'm not surprised that she was still happy and outgoing and at a wedding and having fun because she was pushing herself to grow, to learn, to leave her comfort zone, all those things you're talking about. You know, at the end of the day, Dave, I think that you want to be a reason why other people's lives are enriched. So in business, Dave, there's something called the net promoter score where everyone is familiar with a question that says, based on your experience with Dave Chiltern, would you recommend Dave Chiltern to your friends or family, right? And if you get a nine or a 10, that's a promoter. If you get zero to six, that's a detractor. And the

net promoter score is the percentage of promoters minus the percentage of detractors. The point that Fred Reichel makes, Dave, is that anything south of a nine out of ten now is a failure in this environment. So you want to get as many promoters as you want or as you can, but then he makes this point. He said that you and I are in the business of enriching other people's lives. So when someone says, listen to the wealthy barber or read the wealthy barber, David's because you've enriched their life and they want to enrich somebody else's life, that's why they're recommending you. So the older I get, the more I'm focused on enriching people's lives. And trust me, Dave, I'm not a pure good Samaritan. I'm selfless for selfish reasons. I know if I bring you tremendous value, I'm going to invoke the law

of reciprocation. And so I cannot tell you, Dave, how many people are calling me? Because they heard me 25 years ago. and they go, hey, Mike, we heard you in 2002, and you made a big impact on us. Are you still doing this? Can you come back and talk? So the message is when you do great things, like this podcast, this podcast is going to have a very long life. And someone will hear it, Dave, in 10 years' time,

when you've moved on to bigger and better things, and they will still want to talk to you or me because of something they took away from this time we're spending together. I gave a speech recently, and the fellow said, we had you speak in 1990, and now here we are bringing you back in 20 and 26. We're so excited to have you again. I said, how excited can you be?

You waited 36 years. I'm not sure you can be that excited. When you look at mistakes people are making in retirement, and you and I talked a little bit before going on air. Some people isolate themselves. I have found that this doesn't get discussed in books, but in real life, my male friends in particular often really struggle in the winter. Some seasonal disorder sets in, but they're also taken away in many instances,

my friend's golf, for example. And that's their social connection. They don't get it through other means. Do you see that at all? And what are some ways they can pull themselves out of that? Yeah, really, really great point. So one of my dear friends and colleagues is a wonderful guy called Kim Yost, who used to be the president or the CEO of the brick.

And then he went to the U.S., became CEO of Art Van, a major furniture chain rare. And then they had a private equity buyout. He made himself some money. He's now living out in BC. But he said to me, he said, Mike, my wife. will from, went from being like a watermelon to a razor because he found himself, he lives on bare mountain, you know, just on Victoria Island. And he said what he missed immediately was the vibrancy and the adrenaline and the dopamine, the buzz. Exactly. So he went through six months

of having to come to terms of that. And now, Dave, what he's doing is together with his wife, they've got a small business where they send in what they call life chests, which is, you know, containers that you can put your life in, but with great design and great themes to it. He's creating a series of stories that he's trying to sell to Disney as comics for adults. He's also involved with a number of businesses specifically in his region. And so he's gone from being this larger than life figure with big business to making a difference with a range of small businesses. So he's got his purpose back. He's got his connection back. But Dave, once again, he's chosen impact over comfort. And I think the big mistake people make is they go, hey, my whole life

I've worked, and now I don't want to work. But I think what we realize, Dave, is that work equals purpose, work equals contribution, and also work equals learning. So oftentimes we force to learn in the work situation. And then when we retire, we go, okay, I can sit back. And now I'm just going to enjoy the fruits of my labor, but very, very quickly the human brain says, uh-uh, I need the challenge. Now, Dave, the problem is this. If you went too long, that muscle atrophic and then you have to work even harder. So when astronauts come back from outer space, they've lost a huge amount of their muscle mass because there's no resistance in outer space. So if there's one takeaway that I'd ask folks to take with them into retirement is,

what are you going to do that's going to provide that resistance that's going to keep developing your mental muscle. I think those are bang on points. And, you know, my father was interesting on that front in that he took too big a gap. So he was a workaholic, high school principal, superintendent, then back into the schools. When he retired, he thought, I'm going to do nothing for a year or two. And I thought, okay, well, it didn't work out very well. First off, my mother hated having them around that much. Like, she really did. They had a good relationship. She hated having them there that much. But also, the atrophy did set in. And he had a little trouble jump-starting things after that. To his credit, he fought through it, ended up teaching English as a

second language, teaching bridge, and getting involved in things that added value, gave him purpose, socially connected through a number of them as well. But you're right, every month that he didn't push himself, it became tougher to get off the mat and get going again. So absolutely. How do you find that passion? How do you sustain that passion? And one of the things that I believe is curiosity is the fuel of youth. I still get the Globe and Mail delivered to me every morning. I'm old school in that record. Yeah, I love the physical paper. I love the physical paper. I love the smell of it. I love the feel of it. I love the ink on my fingers. And so on the weekend, I read the Wall Street Journal. I read the Globe. I read the Star. I read the Financial Times. I read Barons. I read

IBD. And I read it cover to cover. And I'll spend five or six hours. And inevitably date, there's going to be an article that I find exceptionally interesting. So here's my message. So here's my message, Dave, and it's a very simple phrase, stay in the arena. Don't leave the arena. Because if you leave the arena, then you're not in the game. So whatever it takes for you to stay in the game, great. Now, you may want to change the game. So Dave, the truth is, when I came to Canada, it took me a couple years, and then I was like the flavor of the decade. And I was doing, I remember, Dave, so you'll smile at this. In October 2018, I had a 22-tor. Torquist. in one month. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Right. And I did well over a hundred that year, well over

a hundred. But now I'm not, you know, the new shiny thing. And so I'm transitioning from being that in the spotlight keynote speaker to being the manager player or the coach player. And I'm very happy to be the coach. And now I push other people and prepare other people for the spotlight. But Dave, until my last breath, man, I want to be in the arena, whatever that arena is. It does. And I think it doesn't have to be, to your point, the same arena that you had your career in, but it's an arena where you're challenged, where you're adding value, where you're meeting people or hanging around other positive people. You're not just isolated laying back because I think that's where so many people get into great difficulty. Now, when you eventually retire or at least slow down, you haven't even done that, will you and your wife travel a lot? So my favorite place on this planet is Greece. And the cool thing. about Greece is there are 300 islands you can go to. So even if I'm high to summer, you can choose an island where it ain't that crowded. And the great thing about the islands is that around about

four o'clock every afternoon, there's a breeze that comes out over the ocean. So it's not even that hot. Between 11 and 3, it's incredibly hot, which is why they have something called a seester. I'm telling you this, because every year prior to COVID, my wife and I would go away three times a year to Italy and Greece and one of the location. Now she's a little less eager to do that, not least of which, Dave, is she's crazy for animals and we just got a rescue, a cross between a Shih Tzu and a Jack Russell. That is just, I mean, a miraculous creature. And she's more attached to this animal than she is to me. I wish I got a fraction of that attention and that unconditional love. So now I've still got the travel bug because I'm a nomad.

but she's far more of a settler. So, Dave, the answer to your question is we will travel, but my wife now has got her hobbies. She's an artist in her own right. He's in fact designing and producing miniature furniture and she's actually talking to folks like Fogar Island and she will be doing some work with him. Beautiful spot. So she's hiding her own second wind and I'll find my own. But here's the great thing, Dave. If I want to travel, I'm going to travel and sometimes she'll come with me. Sometimes she won't. But we too much. independent spirits who are going to lead our own lives and every now and then they'll intersect. And the bottom line, Dave, is at least 200 or 250 nights a year. We will sleep in the same room

in the same bed. We may even spoon. Now, that's too much information. With the dog. Yeah, there'll be the three of you. That's not a joke. It's the source. It's like with a recent point. She sleeps on the left. I sleep on the right. And who do you think is in the middle? This 11. Well, I hope it's the dog. If it's not the dog, we've really got some excitement here in the podcast. Look, I don't want to talk too much about the investing. That wasn't the purpose here. But I do have to ask you something.

You have this truly spectacular success. I'm not going to divulge your numbers, but our audience trusts me. And I've really not seen anything quite like it. And I can see how you made the original selection to get involved in the tech stocks. You saw the network effect before I did before most people did, truthfully. And you made some great judgment calls. The part that fascinates me is how with these spectacular gains you had, you never sold. You just felt that it was still going to get bigger and bigger.

The cumulative advantage was going to serve these companies well. You might be the only person I've known who not only got involved in the right spot at the right time, but held throughout this incredibly long run. How did you have the discipline to do that? So, Dave, look, I know this podcast is way bigger than investing, but the same principle that drives my life, drives my investing. And I'll give it you in a single word, Dave, and that's conviction. As I tell folks, look, all my talk of success is just a crapshoot because who knows what the future holds.

But I do know what will cause you failure, and that is to be ambivalent or to be wishy-washy or to flip and flop. So back in 2002, when I came to Canada, I had some money that I'd got out of South Africa, I had some cash, and I fell in love with Apple, well, all the way back in 1984 when they launched the brand commercial, yeah. Remember that commercial while 1984 is not like 1984. And I fell in love with it over the years. And then Apple became crucial to me because it removed technology as a barrier. You know, I'm not a technocrat.

I'm a techno peasant. And so Apple made it super easy. So I had enormous conviction in Apple and in fact in Steve Jobs. So Dave, I bought Apple. back in 2002, and I put a huge amount of my money into that at 20 bucks a share. And it closed last night at 305, 306, and I bought a lot. And by the same token, I put a huge amount of my money into Google because I use it every day. And I cannot exist without Google.

And then Dave, the third big stock was Amazon because I can't live without Amazon. So my philosophy is put your money behind the best companies with the best resources run by the best. people because if anything happens to an Apple, Google, or Amazon, well, God help us all. And as Napoleon said, Dave, God is on the side of the big battalions. Right. So that's cumulative advantage. And I agree. I do.

And you said to me years and years ago when I first learned of your investing success, that the fact you weren't a tech expert probably helped you because you ended up looking at all this, just thinking which of these companies is making a huge difference in my life. and I'm sure it's making a huge difference in millions of other people's lives too, and will anything derail it from doing so? It was more or less, that's the thinking you undertook. And you said in Apple's case, it's making a huge difference. That's not going to change.

And therefore, I'm in. I'm still, by the way, even when I listen to your logical explanation of this, I'm still amazed that you stayed the course for the whole 24 years. That's just very impressive. So, Dave, in the spiritual disclosure, because I don't want to come across as omniscient here, but I've got many, many thousands of Apple stock, right?

So every now and then, like when Trump comes out with his liberation day, I thought, oh my goodness, this is going to be a basket case. So I sold like 1% of my holdings, and I sold it at 207. And now, you know, it's been up to 3.30. Yeah, but then, Dave, here's the kicker.

It's called the tax implications, right? So even though, thank God, you know, the capital tax. Now is 25, not apt to where it was, but still. So what I do is I'm running. So you're going to love this day. I'm running a non-registered savings account because if I never sell, I never pay tax. I never pay tax from that. And those are low dividends, stocks too. So you don't pay much tax as you go. In no. Exactly. I think my dividend is a magnificent 0.6% dividend, right? So there's no incentive for me to sell. And every time I've doubted, but I've held on, my faith has been reaffirmed by the next new product.

Now, Dave, you and I have no clue what Apple's about to produce next, but let me tell you how my logic works. Just this last Wednesday night, I went into the Apple store in Yorkdale because it was the end of my financial year and I had some money to spend on tech. So what you cannot see is I've got a magnificent new monitor that's huge and crystal clear and it's beautiful. I go into the Apple store and you see how much space is in the Apple store that they're not using. And I'm wondering, why is the store this big? What else are they going to bring out? And so my prediction, and I'll be on your podcast again, hopefully in a couple of years' time,

we'll look back and Apple will have introduced a whole range of technology that again redefines the game, as well Amazon, as will Google. So that's that now, Dave, just in case people don't think I'm, buying Canadian or investing Canadian, I'm almost equally invested in the banks. And Dave, for me, it's been a miracle as it's been for millions of Canadians that the banks have outperformed the tech stocks over the past year where, you know, banks like RPC or TD or, you know, BNS have appreciated by what, 55 to 75% over you? How does that happen? No, it's crazy. And again, I think a lot of people can't duplicate your success. You got involved, especially their tech stocks, the right time, but they can

learn from it. And you mentioned conviction, you mentioned the tax repercussions you think through, and your very basic thinking a lot of this was still deep. Like you had it right. You definitely got the story right. And to restate to the audience, the numbers really are quite impressive. Okay, last thing I want to ask you about is your marriage. You've had a good marriage. I'm sure it's had its ups and downs, but 44 years together. What is the one or two things, what are the one or two things that jump at you that you've learned, that you think you've done well to get to this point? Well, Dave, you know, I could get emotional at this point, which I won't. But I'd say the main reason why the marriage has held together is that I have a wife who's a quintessential Leo,

which means incredibly strong, incredibly fun-loving, and loves me with a depth that I cannot even fathom. And so there were moments where Mr. Lipkin here in his depression was really non-functional. and she never lost faith. And when people told her to leave me, she said, I know who he is, I know what he's going through, and I made a commitment for better or for worse, in sickness or enough. So number one, I think, you know, most of the kudos goes to her. But number two, Dave, we have a lot of fun together.

We laugh together. We smile together. And most importantly, we live independent but interdependent lives simultaneously. So if you were to ask me, who would I love to go away with? Who would I love to spend one on one time in a beautiful location? There's only one person. And that's Hillary. I assume Hillary is your wife.

Yeah, okay. Thank you. I just want to clarify that for our listing lights. Now, would she pick you or the dog? So at this time, I think it would be very close. I mean, very, very close. And she might lean towards the dog. And Dave, you never found the need to find another life partner?

No, I'm dating somebody now. I just tend to live alone. But I have a great relationship right now. I just, we don't live together. I don't think I could live alone. I don't have the ability to manage all the minutia that comes with living alone. I've always been a huge loner. And so, you know, it's for me, living on my own has worked well.

But no, I'm in a very good relationship. Because whether you know it or not, what you're amazing at is called motivational interviewing. So the way you ask questions, the way you reflect what someone said, the way you affirm what they've said, the way you summarize what they've said makes them want to say even more. So the curious thing is if someone didn't know your backstory, they would say you are the ultimate extrovert, the ultimate gregarious guy. And yet in your private life, you're a loner,

but you make a living being this public figure who's great at connecting and talking. It's odd combination. I mean, even you and I've worked together. You know, I go straight back to my hotel room. Like I don't drink, I don't go to the bars. I was always like that. I just went straight back to my room. and I watch the news or read a book.

Yeah, I'm not the most exciting person. When I describe myself, it's actually kind of negative. But anyway, we've got to wrap up, but I've really enjoyed this. And, you know, over the years, I've really found you to be an interesting guy with different takes on things. You live what you preach. I mentioned earlier, your energy is just crazy. You are always super high energy.

You remind me a bit of Pimball Clements. Have you been on the same stage as him? Many, many times. And thank you for that. That's a big compliment. I'm a big fact. nice person. But he always has that same amazing energy. I know. It's just extraordinary, Dave. So look, let me leave your listeners with this thought. This is my favorite phrase. And I always love

to leave folks with a thought. And that is this, sometimes you'll find yourself in a dark place. And sometimes in a dark place, you'll find yourself. Yes. So I want people to know that when you go through that nadir, when you go through the trough, that's when you discover who you are. And that's where you build a strength that you can then leverage and harvest when you go through the better times. Number two, Dave, there's a writer in the U.S. called David Brooks. Great right. And he talks about first mountain, second mountain. So you and I have climbed that first mountain, and now we're about second mountain,

which is giving back, making an impact. And for me, Dave, the reason I wanted to be on this call, as I shared with you, is I know your reach and it's been a privilege and a pleasure to be or to be able to access that reach to impact anyone who has resonated with any of the point. points we've made today. Oh, great. And by the way, I should give you an opportunity to how do people reach you, number one, but also you're working on a book with Patch. So tell us a little bit about that. Patch 11 is the founder of Good Life, and I've done some work with Good Life. And about

18 months ago, I did a program, and he spoke before me. And I said to him, I said, Batch, we've got to do work together because he's 72, I'm 68. And he speaks about the role that accidents have played in his life. So, you know, he almost died in a motorcycle accident, then he almost died in a ski accident. He's got a daughter who's deeply autistic. He got early onset arthritis. And of course, he's gone through the natural process of aging. And so we've created a book together, Dave,

and it's called By Accident on Purpose. So what are the ways that you can prepare for the inevitable accident? What are the ways you can handle the accident? But then, most importantly, how do you turn that accident into purpose? So think of the great speakers. Think of the great writers. to a large extent they harvest their lived experience to share lessons with others. So that's the book.

It's being published by page two, and it will be out in the first quarter of 2020. Well, Jesse and the people of page two are great, and Patch off is an incredible business story. Remember, he achieved all that success in one of the toughest industries. He went in one of the toughest industries and not only survived, but thrive. So full credit to him and wonderful story. And listen, it's been a pleasure having you on. I've really enjoyed it. But before we wrap up, I need the big line.

I mean, when I used to see you speak, you would lift the audience up, talking about how you can't get too comfortable. You've got to take some risks. And you would say fortune. Fortune favors the bold. I mean, the bold. No, I love to you to say that.

You delivered that perfectly. And you're a very gifted speaker. So listen, Mike, it was a pleasure having you on. And let's cross paths again soon. Dave, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. And I look forward to listening to this, because I know it's going to motivate.

That's good. Be well.