The Wellness Scoop - Alice Liveing: accepting yourself & body confidence

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

This week Ella is joined by Alice Liveing for a conversation on releasing the desire to look ‘perfect’ and rebuilding a happier and healthier relationship with exercise, her body and ultimately herself, all the while being followed by over 700k people online.They discuss: Numbing life by controlling what your body looks like Owning mistakes publicly in the age of social media Navigating the pressure to look ‘perfect’ External validation and keeping up a facade Alice’s catalyst moment for addressing her relationship with food, exercise, her body and herself Releasing the identity of having the ‘perfect body’ to rebuild mental and physical health Tools for building self-esteem and the power of feeling safe Alice’s non-negotiables for feeling her best Links: Alice’s podcast Give Me Strength For new subscribers, use code podcast20 to get 20% off the Feel Better App Wellness Toolkit for this episode Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com. Quick favor, could you hit the subscribe button? It really helps get the show out there so that more people can be inspired by the personal growth that our guests are talking about and take those lessons into their own lives. Welcome to Wellness with Ella, the Deliciously Ella podcast. This is a podcast that aims to inspire you, to empower you, to leave you feeling uplifted. Every week, me and my guests will candidly reveal our personal journeys of transforming times of great difficulty into times of enormous personal growth. How did our guests get to where they are today? What have been their biggest challenges?

What practices and habits have really genuinely moved the needle for them and how do they keep moving forward? Wellness with Ella has the simple mission of giving you unfiltered, empowering conversations that give you the tools, knowledge and inspiration to transform your own life and your own health. I've been wanting to get today's guest on the show for a little bit. She is incredibly inspiring. We've both been working in the wellness industry for about the same amount of time and I've watched her grow and develop and change and embrace this real level of vulnerability she's incredibly clear about an outlook that I feel very passionate about this idea that health and wellness is so much more than how you look

it's so much more about how you feel in yourself your confidence your self-belief but for many years her aesthetic her body image was her currency and that's what she built a brand around we talk in depth about struggling with the pressure to look a certain way this push and pull between knowing that the external version of you this polished version of you that feels you have to be a certain way is at odds with and in some ways harmful to your true self and discovering what your real self actually looks and feels like and how she overcame those challenges to get to this place of true confidence in her own skin and I have to say I think she has more confidence in herself and in her own skin than many people I've ever met in my

life. So we're going to talk a lot about struggling to accept and love our bodies amidst a culture which is still so focused on the external. So if you don't know her, Alice Living is our guest today. Alice is a personal trainer, she's a best-selling author, a podcast host and an influencer and she has been on her own journey with her mental and physical health during which she's amassed a following of about 700,000 people across her social media platforms and her mission right now is to help women educate themselves to enjoy health and enjoy exercise. So I hope you love hearing from her. We go quite deep into some topics that feel incredibly universal mostly

around body image and how we feel in our own bodies and I hope that they resonate deeply with you and inspire you on your own experience and journey. Well Alice welcome to the show thank you for coming. Thank you so much for having me I can't believe it's taken this long for us to actually be in a room together I can't remember how long I followed you for but yeah it's so nice to meet you. Yeah I don't know it must have been like seven eight nine years I think almost basically since you started that I've been following your journey and I'm always really hesitant the word journey because it can sound a

bit cheesy a bit trite but I just for your context what I really want to do on this show and do for everyone listening is I think it's my own curiosity and my own experience which is that you know the last 10-12 years my life has completely changed but I think often what you see from the outside is like almost a before and after and not really the middle you know you see someone when they feel empowered or they've got something that's kind of quote-unquote successful to promote and you see maybe where they started to get to that point but you don't always see kind of how the journey between one to the other really looked and how it really felt for people

and I believe so strongly that like people are inspired by people and you can't really be what you can't see and it's understanding and humanizing that experience for people and I just from where I sit and love your social media I'm really love how honest and how genuine how authentic you've been in your own experience of everything that you've done and that's what I'm really excited to talk about today yeah I think that's yeah completely true and I think that part of that is the beauty of social media is that in some ways it's great that we can see someone's timeline of where they start and where they are now but you're absolutely right it is and I hear a lot of people use that phrase of it being a highlight reel and it is you know there are some things that I do try and share

and I try and be open and vulnerable and I think that's really important to everything that I've done but there's also a hell of a lot that you don't share because, you know, for whatever reason, there's stuff that can be painful, challenging, hard to convey to your audience. And also you never really feel like you're able to give all of yourself because it's quite nice to hold a little bit back. So, yeah, I think I like the word journey in some ways because what else would you describe it as? I mean, I know a lot of people find it a little bit cliche but life is a journey like we're all going through something we all create a narrative as we get older and we make mistakes we mess up and we have to keep on going so I do see it as a journey as cringy as that may be I do so mine's been a turbulent one thus far but like some amazing moments and some really challenging

ones but yeah I feel really happy with where I am today and and it's it's nice to kind of see how it will evolve as well. Totally and for me that's the point as you said it's the ups and the downs and it's the nuance of that that as you said I think sometimes missing not because you don't want to give it because you don't always have the right time and space to do it. And then so before we get into the journey and what it's looked like for you, I wondered if you could start by introducing yourself, you know, people might know you through your books or through your social media and through all the work that you do. But how would you introduce yourself as Alice? It's so hard, isn't it? Because I've done a lot of like speaking actually over the last few weeks. when people say oh can you introduce yourself I sort of find in some ways like I'm so confident

and secure in who I am but I also find it really hard to maybe explain fully what I do I guess first and foremost I would say that I'm a personal trainer I always bring it back to the thing that I feel really grounds me in and gives me most purpose in my job and you know I've done that for eight years I've worked on a gym floor done that for eight years. I've worked on a gym floor for a number of those where I've worked with amazing clients and done some incredible things and felt really grateful to have that experience of really building credibility in a space where there's so many voices. It was so important to me to kind of be a voice of credibility and real groundedness in evidence. And so I've worked

really hard on that. So I would say, first of all, I tend to call myself that. But then outside of that, a whole host of other things. I started this journey over 10 years ago. I have gone on to publish three books, currently writing my fourth. I have done a podcast. I've done loads of brand work, presenting. I also started my, I guess, professional career in a completely different environment, which was in musical theatre. I trained as a professional dancer. So in terms of like different strings to my bow, I feel like there's many. I sort of feel that what I love about my job is that I can do so much and I have done so much. But I also think what I hate about my job is that I want to do everything and I want to embrace every opportunity and in some ways it's a blessing

and a curse and that I've I've done so much and I love that but also it's really hard to keep lots of balls up in the air all at once yes I certainly relate to that and but if you introducing yourself I guess less of like a professional bio and who you feel you are like how how would you introduce yourself ah okay in terms of how I see myself I would say I am a near 30 year old who is happy successful comfortable in who I am I would say I'm a kind nice person and that's about it you know like I feel like of course I offer more than that I don't want to massage my own ego I'm not about that I quite like to just I guess try and be the best version of myself I think the one thing that I would always want people to see me as is is a kind person I lead with empathy and I try and be really genuine to everyone that I meet I would never want

people to think you know she's this kind of sunny happy person online and then you meet her in real life and she's a horror so I really try and be be myself authentic and kind and and real I guess I think that comes across which is why I wanted to talk to you but I think the other thing that comes across in absolute spades from where I sit certainly is this comfortable in your own skin and I think that's that's a goal that everyone wants isn't it that's such a a unlocker for contentment and joy and presence in life and that's why I'm so interested to understand that journey because it sounds from where I sit again, like that's not always been the case. And you've been through this experience over the last how many years from when you were

young to theatre school to social media to now of really creating that sense of empowerment in the internal, I guess, instead of the external validation. And I'm keen to understand, I guess, and kind of track that journey. And I wondered if we could start, I guess, the beginning and understanding a bit about your childhood and your experiences growing up. Yeah, definitely. I think we are all a product of our experiences, right? And everything that we experience colors us and shapes us as who we are. So I think, you know, who I am here sat today, obviously there's a lot of that that was kind of built within my childhood. So I had an incredibly happy childhood.

I have amazing parents. I have a brother, I have a sister, and I grew up with a relatively normal, happy upbringing, whatever normal is. I would say that a couple of things I feel really shaped. First of all, if we're talking about being comfortable in myself, I would say, I think that a lot of us, particularly when it comes to confidence within ourselves, with a particular focus on body image, a lot of that stems from our mother and our experience with how our mother views herself and how that's then transcended into how we view ourselves. So I think growing up, my mom really struggled with body image. She had challenges of

her own when it came to her weight. She had an eating disorder. She really struggled. And I think as much as she probably tried for that to not rub off onto myself and my siblings, I think it naturally, unfortunately does, which I don't blame her for, but is just unfortunately how it goes. And so I think my perception of health, wellbeing, all this stuff was so narrowly focused on body image and how I looked. So to me, health was a look. It was a way that you were perceived by the outside world. And so I think that really shaped and colored a lot of my early experiences when it came to wanting to change my physical appearance. But just setting that aside for a second, I think the other thing that really

was something that I feel was a pivotal moment in my own upbringing was going through something age 16, where I was in a really abusive relationship. And I've spoken about it a lot. I'm very open about what I went through. It has then led me to do amazing work with Women's Aid, which I'm like, unbelievably grateful for. But it was something that you never imagine happening to you, especially not age 16. And I think that experience basically knocked me down to be a shell of myself at such a crucial age when you're kind of just starting to explore like being an adult and doing things that kind of push yourself out of your comfort zone I went from you know going along this path of gaining confidence and growing up and being very happy and having great family and friends

to suddenly being someone who literally couldn't get out of bed, had to have my mom sleep in the same room as me because I was having terrible panic attacks and really had to rebuild myself again from the ground up. And I think that that was almost when I look back now, and I'm really grateful that I've been able to do therapy and things like that, that have really helped me to view that situation in a different way and to work through it and I think that was really where my sense of needing to be in control came from I think anyone that's been in an abusive relationship knows that the feeling of being out of control is the most challenging thing that you can go through like you you lose complete autonomy question everything and I think from that I then desperately sought out a way of controlling my life again and that control paired with the stuff

that I told you about my upbringing with my mom and stuff meant that control then meant controlling the way I looked it was controlling my food food. It was controlling my exercise. And all of that was done with good intentions. I genuinely believed that like I was on this journey of health and wellbeing that was going to be, you know, unbelievable for me. And I don't really think I saw that it was anything other than just a good thing because we're taught that losing weight is good for us. And we're taught that being thin is good for us and we're taught that being thin is good for us and that you know controlling your diet is good for us so to me I really believed that I had kind of cracked the code and I'd nailed it basically but you know I'm sure it was no surprise and I've talked about this incredibly openly that wasn't probably the healthiest thing

that I've ever done and going back to your point on, I guess, developing self-confidence, I think if going through that experience at 16 was a build back up again moment, I would say probably recognizing that everything I'd done from that age until the age of, I don't know, 24, 25 also was maybe a build from the ground up again moment. I kind of had to go back to the drawing board and realize that my coping strategies weren't really working I wasn't healthy and I needed to really understand why and learn I guess a different way of trying to be the the best version of myself thank you for being so kind of honest and open about it because I think from where I sit I think it's incredibly inspiring and also incredibly encouraging to other people who are feeling for whatever reason that they're not on a path that's serving them and they're struggling themselves. in that experience that you had as you were kind of I'm trying to phrase it in the right way because it's one of the things that fascinates me most with this kind of and I think we're on the same

page with this with the way that we see wellness and that wellness is often it's very reductive and it's very eat broccoli do star jumps I've said this lots of times but I think it's really interesting as you said that that was the path you kind of went on of controlling that with the sense that that will make you feel really well and did you realize at the time that it almost wasn't making you feel well and it was almost you weren't necessarily addressing the kind of deeper underlying confidence issues did you feel you had a lot of confidence at this point yes and I think that's the challenging thing is that it works in the interim and I think

you know anyone that's gone on a I guess transformation journey let's call it you know in those first few months and maybe even years when you're able to sustain that level of kind of control I guess you do feel amazing and that level of kind of control, I guess, you do feel amazing. And it is a sense of, and I'm going to be totally honest here, it's a sense of smugness that you've kind of nailed it. You've cracked the code, you've done it, you've done what everyone else kind of wanted to do. And so you kind of wear it as a badge of honor. You know, I am the most healthy and I go to the gym all the time and I'm up at this time in the morning and I'm just kind of, you t-shirt of health and well-being, being the face of it.

And I think that it was only when things started to unravel for me that I maybe recognized that, oh, actually, it's not as rosy as it maybe was I think I'd always known that there were certain things that I did that maybe weren't right but I think that if we think about the context in which you and I both started doing what we were doing the environment was so different you know there wasn't the balance. There wasn't the understanding even of basic things like red S and hypothalamic amenorrhea and women having so many issues with being overstressed and overstimulated by trying to be thin, basically. And I think that we now know so much more generally. And that's meant that what a lot of us perceive to be wellness, we now recognize as disordered eating and control. what is wellness is is incredibly reductive is interesting in that I think we've come so far but in some ways we're still right back there in many ways in many conversations that I have with people online I'm sure you're the same it's still just about what's the quickest way for me to lose weight what do I need to do to get my body looking like that and I think that my journey has taught me so much and I've really tried to share that and I've

really tried to be as open and honest with that process as possible but it deals does still make me sad when I sometimes get messages like that and I think oh you know I thought we'd come so far and yet sometimes it feels like we haven't but I've totally gone off on a tangent here so I'm just wondering where we were it was a great tangent okay and I've got a few questions from the tangent but I guess the first question I have and I hadn't really thought about it like this actually until I was listening to you talk just then it sounds to me like you almost had two transformations almost in your life that first one that we were just talking about which was a very physical transformation almost to becoming and you said you know the way you described it like you

kind of were the face of health and fitness you know you were everywhere and doing so well and being kind of pinned up as like perfect from an aesthetic perspective but then it sounds like you almost had the second transformation after you said things unraveled of actually that almost like mental transformation to this sense of like true empowerment and feeling deeply comfortable in your skin I don't know if you see it like that at all yeah and I guess it was probably the most challenging yeah you know it was actually easier to restrict and to overtrain and to just almost numb everything else that was going on in my life during that period because it was easier to throw all of that energy into looking perfect

and making everyone believe that I was perfect. What was hard was having to, in inverted commas, fall from grace. Things weren't as rosy as they may have seemed. And in order for me to carry on doing something that I genuinely loved, I had to publicly hold my hands up and say that I got it wrong. And I think that's probably one of the most challenging things I've gone through. I remember being in Greece with Zanna Van Dyke, who I'm sure some people know, on a press trip. And the most horrendous headline was written about me in the Daily Mail. And it was sort of along the lines of accusing me of, you know, giving people eating disorders. And I think aged, I must have been like 23 or 24, knowing that I had to somehow handle that. I just remember

like sobbing, like literally just being like, what is going on? Like, how has this happened to me? How have I suddenly gone from like everything being fine to everything being totally awful? And yeah, back to my point of saying it was the fall from grace that was the hardest, like it was challenging. And in order for me to continue, like I said, doing what I love, the rebuilding had to be 100% genuine. I couldn't fake it anymore. I couldn't pretend that like everything was fine. And, you know, I was just going to skip back on and pretend like nothing had happened like I had to wipe the drawing board clean and start again and that meant that like I really probably took a few years to get to even feeling remotely like I kind of felt good in myself again.

And privately, it was unbelievably tough. Just because particularly at that stage, I didn't feel ready enough to share that I was sort of going through all these things, losing my period and having really like disordered issues with food, both binge eating and restriction restriction it's very hard to share those things when you're going through them and it's only with hindsight and having gone through that that I'm able to now reflect and be like oh my god I really need to talk about this because it's something that I feel I can share but at the time you know with all that

going on in the background but desperately trying to sort of like keep up and be that authentic voice, that was really hard. And I knew that in terms of building trust with an audience again of people that were probably just thinking, hang on a second, you said that two years ago, and now you're saying this, I don't really understand. That was obviously really hard. And the only way that I knew how to do that was just to be 100% honest and vulnerable and authentic and take people on that journey of making mistakes fucking up and being okay with having to own those really publicly so yeah it was it was hard but you're absolutely right it was almost that second rebirth as such that was the the most challenging but most like empowering as such in terms of of how I feel like I am now I hope you

feel it because I think it's extraordinarily brave to do that you know we're very very very quick to say the least to judge one another and I think everyone personally professionally gets things wrong and has to change and we're not particularly graceful in allowing people to do that and I think that it takes real bravery to do that and I like I don't mean to trivialize it but I just think it's I hope you feel kind of how how brave that is because I think it is it's a really difficult thing to do and I completely agree with you that I think I've always said this you know like regaining my physical health after I was ill was was hard it was hard but it was incomparable to regaining my mental health

and kind of seeing myself as a whole and fully functioning person again yeah you know I think if one took three years the other took 10 and required a lot more soul searching for sure and I don't think you can underestimate that I really hope you don't mind me asking this question but I only think and you ask it because I think people would relate to it so deeply as especially for women listening I think we can tend to put a huge amount of pressure on ourselves to be a certain person. And I wonder if you, when you look back on it in hindsight, do you feel there was anything that was kind of driving you to feel that you needed to be this perfect person? It's a great question. And I think that as with most women, I think I had an immense desire to be liked. And I think that if I look back on when I started social media, I'd left school and didn't really retain

many friends I was actually speaking about this yesterday that I just remember this moment where like my girlfriends from school had obviously like created a separate whatsapp group without me and I kind of lost a lot of friends just because I don't think I don't know I went off and did something different I went to theatre school they all went to university. For whatever reason, as amazing as they are, we sort of went our separate ways. And I kind of found myself incredibly lonely. I went away to college, which was a whole nother sort of start for me. And whilst I made amazing friends, I think what social media gave me was this opportunity just to completely rebuild myself again, to just create this person that was, you know, a new Alice.

And this was Alice that was going to be doing all these things. And when people started to engage with that and to like me, I think as someone who is so desperate to be liked, always has been, unfortunately, it's part of me that I still am challenged by, but I'm a people pleaser and I want to be liked. And I think when people started to like me, I was just like, this is amazing, you know? And I built a community of people that helped me to feel happy and confident because they were liking me for me. And I don't think I'd ever really had that before in my life. I think I'd always tried to chameleon myself into being lots of different people to fit lots of different groups and never quite fitting. And then suddenly I started this thing, it took off and I was being liked for being

me. So I think that was really a game changer for me. And I think that's what meant that when it came to being this sort of persona, this perfect person, I didn't want to step away from that. It was addictive in that I needed that sense of validation to continue to be the person that I wanted to be. And having gone from maybe feeling like a quite lonely, unconfident person, suddenly I was Alice who had all these followers on Instagram and it sort of meant that she was something and I'd made something of myself. And I just think that anyone who's been in that position knows that it's really hard to step away from that once you almost have that addictive nature of being validated constantly. And I'm going to be totally honest, it's still to this day,

something that I'm working on because all of us unfortunately have well those that are on social media have bought into this need to have people tell us we're good and and have people kind of validate how we look and what we do and and whatever and I think I just created this person that was happy and smiley and always quite positive and sustaining that was impossible but I desperately tried for as long as I could and it's only really in you know in the past few years that I've been able to let the facade down to let people in and say well actually you know as with most people everything isn't always great all the time but I think as someone again like I said who is desperate to be liked to reveal chinks in your armor is to almost potentially be disliked or to be unfollowed or to be disengaged with and I think that was such a big

fear moment for me but in some ways it's paid off tenfold because I think now I'm I'm so grateful for being able to just be like completely myself good and bad online rather than just trying to keep up this like happy smiley Alice I'm always happy and what because I think one of the things that interests me is I think what you're talking about is so relatable for so many people and I think it absolutely extends online but I think it's very much in real life as well that we people see us as a certain person and, you know, that person might be rewarded. And so you feel like you've got to continue to do that. And it's this interesting push and pull between wanting to do things that you feel like you're being validated and applauded

for, and then actually aren't necessarily serving you. And when you start to get that niggling feeling of something's not right, addressing that is so difficult. And did you feel that in real life too that you had you were basically kind of not living a persona because obviously it was a part of you but that you weren't able to be your kind of true self did you feel like you knew exactly who your true self was it's a great question I think no and I think that's because I'd created this disconnect between me and me who was out there, you know, me who was the face of Alice Living or Cleaning As, whatever I was called at the time, and me who was Alice, who was Alice behind closed doors. And that level of dissociation between one part of yourself and another part of yourself is actually really complex.

And it's something that I really had to work on in that, you know, I had to start to connect the two. And that's actually really difficult when you've put across perfection or what you think to be perfection for such a long time. To weave in your real self is so much more risky because what if people don't actually like real me? What if people don't like, you know, I've shown them this and they've liked that. So that's great. And that's kept me going. But actually, like if I start to weave in real me, what's going to happen if they don't like it? And I am still someone who finds it so hard to receive criticism online, even if it's something

as simple as someone saying, I don't know, a small amount of criticism, whatever it is, even if it's constructive, I find it hard because it feels so personal, doesn't it? It feels like a personal attack. But I do think that for the most part, I just had to learn to create a oneness between online Alice and private Alice. And that, you know, as I said in my introduction, there's still part of me that's not a hundred percent open because I actually think that's actually really unhealthy and I've really learned that I used to try and give a hundred percent of myself but it's actually nice to keep something back and you know things like my relationship remains pretty private you know Paddy and I keep most of that behind closed doors I keep a lot of stuff now in terms of friends and what

I'm doing and stuff private and almost see Alice online is still me, but I just give some of myself, not all of myself. And it feels more connected to real Alice, but it's not kind of all of me. I'm just going to show you absolutely everything because I think I've learned that that's probably something that's not 100% healthy. Yeah I can I can definitely imagine that but I am really curious though with this like two parts of yourself at this period did you feel like the private part though was only something you showed yourself like when you'd meet people in a situation because again I think that's what so many people relate to that you feel like you've got to go to a party or a work event or a new job and you've got to turn up and you've got to be this kind of like totally you know filtered person like as though you'd never have a bad day and everything's

easy all the time and I think that's something that what you were talking about projecting online I think people really struggle with projecting in real life as well. Yeah. No, I think you're right. And I think it's like with anything, you know, whether you're walking into a room or you're posting something on social media, both are the same in the sense that we just want to be liked. Like as humans, 99% of us just want to be liked. And so we kind of know the formula that gets you to that point in some ways like you have to be kind and nice and smiley and that as much as I said all those things about myself in the introduction which I do hope I am I also do have good parts of myself that are like and actually like my therapist has worked so hard on me with this is like if I show anger in some of my therapy

sessions she's like this is great we're making real progress here because like you should be angry and you should be jealous. And like those feelings also make up who we are and make us real people. And so as much as I do see myself as like, you know, what I said in the beginning, I also think I'm really happy to own the parts of myself that are slightly more challenging elements of me, jealousy and anger and frustration and all the things that kind of make us a whole human being. So absolutely, to your point, I used to walk into a room and just go on. And I guess some of that comes from being in theatre as well. Like we are just expected to be smiley, happy, like tits and teeth was how we used to describe it at college but you just had to be and you didn't complain and you just walked in and you just did the job but I think that unlearning

a lot of that and now knowing that a lot of the time I don't go to events because I know that if I'm not in the place to be myself I'm not I'm not necessarily ready to be there or if I do go to do it to events I sort of go knowing that I don't need to walk in and be the loudest voice in the room or the smiliest person there, that I can go in and just sort of talk to one person and be a bit more myself and ease myself in. And yeah, I guess what we're kind of dancing around is what is our true self? You know, I'm sat here today saying, I think this is the true me, but really, I think we are ever evolving and picking up things and dropping things and learning as we go. So it's hard to sort of pinpoint the fact that right now

I could say I walked into this room and I was Alice. Maybe I was, but also what is the real me? What's the real you? Do we ever fully show our real selves? And I think that the only answer that I have to that question, and I don't have all the answers, but the only answer is going back to something that we've covered, like just being comfortable in myself and being comfortable with all parts of myself. And I think that's the only way that I can fully describe, I guess, like a sense of groundedness and connection with me. And I, as with most things, I'm going to be challenged by times where I probably don't feel like myself over the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years, I'm sure. But I think that in terms of finding who I really am, I think it's about accepting all parts of myself and knowing that those are all equally valid rather than just the nice,

shiny, happy parts. I love this idea of accepting all parts of yourself. It's something that I've thought more and more about over the last year or two because I think there is that we all have traits in ourselves that aren't our best traits like objectively speaking you know we can be more reactive or we can get pulled in you know into a kind of spiral quicker or we can lose our temper whatever it is we all have those in us you know mine is like when I get overwhelmed I get quite manic that's the thing I most dislike about myself I suddenly become quite like frenetic and I feel like I'm very stressful to be and to be around as a result and I used to

just whenever I'd get that I'd be kind of almost angry at myself for that and it's like accepting that's a part of your personality it doesn't mean that you can't try and work on it a little bit so it feels easier but it's realizing that you are your whole self and you are full of flaws because we're all full of flaws and that's okay that doesn't mean you're unlovable or a bad person I think that's something that we collectively struggle with a little bit as you said and it's part of the reason why I love having these conversations is because we often look at people we think they've had a linear journey and that was hard at the beginning and now it's easy or you know they just became this person overnight and actually the human emotions that we're talking about we've all been through them you know we

really have we had an episode a few weeks ago and we talked a lot about having these intrusive thoughts and I had them really badly after my first daughter Skye was born I got a cab this morning and it was I think because I've been having a lot of these conversations with people recently we're going kind of really deep into people's kind of true selves your point and so I keep taking anyone I meet there because I'm so interested again in this like normalization of what it's actually like to be a human as opposed to what we kind of project in a way and he started telling me about his daughter-in-law who's struggling um postpartum and I told him about some of my experience and I'd actually talked to my mum about it the night before and she said you

know I wish I'd talked to you and I said well you tried but I just sort of said I'm overwhelmed and and you know she didn't ask any more questions and that's what we were talking about but so I asked him more questions. Very difficult upbringing. He had a heart attack at 38. He almost died. After that, he had these really intrusive thoughts, some very, very scary ones and some kind of quite dangerous ones.

And he felt so trapped in what it did to him. And it was just this amazing reminder of this just random man I happened to meet for 20 minutes this morning. And we'd had such similar experiences and like everyone on the streets been there and done that and I think it's just opening up isn't it for people so you don't feel alone when you feel like you have these parts of you that you don't like or you don't want to show people but realizing every single person in the room that you're in

has those two like nobody is quote-unquote perfect and I think the more we can dismantle that the more empowered we almost become. And I think it's great that you're saying that. And absolutely, I agree with everything that you've said. But also, I think what we therefore need to challenge is this idea that, and I'm not going to go too deep, so I'll just keep it surface level. But when we look at people being, quote unquote, cancelled. And that's not all. New Galaxy AI features like NowBrief will give you personalized insights based on your day schedule so that you're prepared no matter what. Buy the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra now at Samsung.com. You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada.

Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads. Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more. That's b-o-b at l-i-b-s-y-n.com. When we look at people being quote unquote cancelled, there are many situations where I think that's valid. But I also think there are a lot of situations where we just don people in the public eye, whether that be online, whether that be, you know, in film, television, whatever it is, is so high that we're almost setting everyone up for a fall. You know, if anyone shows even the slightest amount of kind of weakness as such, and I use that word, you know, because for want of another, but it means that the expectations that we place on those people are so high that almost all of them are going to fail in some way because we're all human. We all make mistakes.

We all do things that are disagreeable that we don't, you know, we look back on, we regret. But unfortunately, that's living a messy, happy life. Like it's not perfect. None of us have perfection it might look great from the outside but actually there's so many things going on and I think that we can talk really openly about this stuff but actually the reality of that playing out I think is less common it's great to talk about vulnerabilities and feelings of anger emotions whatever the negative stuff I guess but actually what I would love to see is is people being able to truly show you that stuff and people hold them and and understand them

and still kind of like them I guess rather than quickly jumping to oh my god she's a terrible person and you know we only have to look at stuff, I'm not going to go down there either, but like tattle and places like that, where someone can do the slightest thing wrong, say the wrong thing, you know, do whatever, make the wrong decision, or even sometimes don't make the wrong decision. They just live their life and they are criticized for it. And I think it's making us live these muted, censored lives. And I want to see the messiness. I want to see the chaos. The people that I love following on Instagram are those that are happy to show that stuff, you know, and happy to be fallible because that for me makes me connect to them in such a deeper way because I get that they're them, they're normal, they're real. And I just

personally think that we need to allow people more space to, to do that stuff and to be that way, because I have so gratefully been allowed to make those mistakes and have retained such an amazing audience of people who've held me through some pretty shitty times and are still there to support me. And I think I feel so grateful for that and I wish that experience for other people who who are maybe going through similar things yeah I think that extends everywhere doesn't it we're very very very very very quick to judge and to criticize each other and I think that's it they're often the reflections of the parts of ourselves that we that we don't like which is why I think it's the importance of

actually learning to I guess it is it think it's the importance of actually learning to I guess it is it's it's bring it all internally isn't it and embrace every part of ourselves and then perhaps we wouldn't wouldn't look at other people in quite the same way because we're appreciative of flaws because they're as you said they're just human they're innate everyone says and does the wrong thing at points in their life we've all done it a hundred times and we'll do it a hundred more times but I'm really interested now in this transformation like how you started to feel this confidence in yourself to be yourself to embrace this whole side of you because as I said I think that's something people deeply relate to but then actually doing it and actioning

it and then coming not out the other side because you said life is a journey it's not like you flick a switch and it's finished but that you start to see I guess the the fruits of the labor you know you start to have it becomes easier day after day to feel confident yourself was there one moment you talked about an unraveling earlier was there one moment where you thought okay that that is it I need to live differently this who I'm not pretending to be but who I'm kind of showing the world to be and who I really am they can't be the same person because this is damaging me I don't think there was one kind of catalyst I think it was a series of events for me that kind of led to a bit of a moment of going wow everything's not okay but it was a really slow burn I think that almost in real time I was learning that everything I was

doing was wrong at the same time as everyone else learning that what a collective group of people, I guess, who were doing stuff online were doing was, I hate to use the word wrong, but it just was unhealthy. to do it was to relearn what health meant to me because my version of health was almost the antithesis of what I now know to be healthy and I had to basically go back to the drawing board and say well what does healthy therefore look like to me what does that actually mean for me because I thought I'd been doing it right this whole time and actually it turns out I really really hadn't so if I'm going to start again I need to just go from the ground up. Like what does it look like to me? And there were some people along the way who've really helped me. I reference her all the time, but I don't know if you know Emma Cannon, just like the most amazing woman who I've ever met, almost like a mothering role to me in some ways in that she came into my life at the perfect moment

and was the only person who looked me in the eye and was like, you need to gain weight. You need to stop doing so much exercise. If you don't do those things, you will end up not being able to have children and you're going to be in a really bad way. And whilst that seems incredibly severe, it was almost as though like she was my mom and she was telling me like, come on, Alice, like you can't carry on like this. And I think that I needed that. I needed a bit of tough love and I needed just to be told that in order for me to have the life that I really wanted and to do all the things that I wanted to do, I had to let go of the body that I so desperately loved and felt so validated in. And I think it came back to that point of being like, well, as much as I need to unlearn all the things I'd been

doing, I didn't quite cross the threshold of understanding that that meant also giving up the body, that meant giving up the look. And Emma was the first person who made me realize that unfortunately that was going to have to happen and that was really hard because my whole identity had been this you know how I looked and so to then have to almost like step back and and and lose that and suddenly have to be like oh well I'm not Alice with the abs so who am I what do people actually know me for what are they even looking at me for am I even inspiring do they even care about what I have to say anymore because I don't look the part I thought I think that was just so so hard and I think it's the thing that I speak to most women about when I come across them

and meet them at events or in the street or whatever is we all probably have a moment in our lives where we think we looked amazing and often and not always but often it was when we were at our smallest I think any woman who then comes away from that it's incredibly difficult to not feel like a failure because that was your best and everyone told you you looked amazing and you were you know my situation on the cover of a magazine and you were doing this and doing that and being offered this and being offered that if you're not that anymore what's the point why are people going to be interested in you and so I think that going back to my point about Emma she was the first person who gave me that come come on, Alice, if you want the life that you want,

you've got to give up that. And I think that that was really hard. And that took me a long time. It wasn't an overnight thing. It was years. It was gaining weight and binge eating and going through really tumultuous moments of relationship with food, relationship with exercise, still making mistakes, still doing things wrong, but having more better days than bad days, eventually getting my period back, starting to, I guess, find a new voice online and find confidence with that. And I think probably in the last sort of two years, I've really found my place where I feel like I belong, where I feel like I can, with comfortableness, know that I have my people, I'm in my space that I feel happy in.

I don't feel like I need to be anything other than myself. And I don't feel like I need to use myself to sell what I want to sell. I feel like I have enough credibility in terms of my expertise, my experiences and whatever that helped me be me without me needing to say look at me look at me buy this because I look like this but yeah it's been a hard journey of course and I think it never is easy is it you know when you're really going through something like that and I think it's such an important thing to say that it's hard because often when we want to make changes or know we need to make changes we're almost disillusioned very quickly when we're on the track of trying to make that change because it is really hard

and so we don't keep going with it because it's too hard and I think it's I feel really strongly that calling out the fact that sounds like it was so worth it but that it wasn't an easy journey is absolutely essential in empowering other people to feel that they can make changes in their own lives too because I don't think big changes can ever be easy but what I'm really curious about is how did you you know you said at the beginning there that kind of almost like your body and the way that you looked was kind of your validation in a way that's how that made you feel really good in yourself how did you transfer for want of a better word that validation into you into your kind of internal world into your soul into the like just Alice I think to a certain extent like I'm going to be totally honest and if

we're talking about being vulnerable I still care about the way that I look, you know, like I still care that I put across an image that I like and I would have shown up here in my tracksuit bottoms if I didn't care about how I looked. I obviously do. But I think that it had to not be the most important thing about me. And I think that's really important. Like you can still care about how you look. You can still care about your physical appearance because unfortunately that's the world we live in. But it can't be the most important thing about you and it can't be the only thing that you have and a big thing for me was not to be using my body as a way to sell stuff and to make people buy into me my thing was well if I can't do this and I don't want to do this, I need to ground myself in credibility

and knowledge in sharing of information because that's what I really enjoy. That's what gives me like fulfillment is being able to help women to go to the gym, to embrace lifting weights, to find a way of training that they enjoy. That's what, you know, is the thing that keeps me going. And so that really doesn't have to have anything to do with the way I look because to give them that information to empower them to have their own journey doesn't matter how I look or it shouldn't and so that was really important for me so I think it was about learning to create an environment online and and a voice that was um very focused on giving of education of empowerment of inspiration without having to rely on my physical appearance like I said at the start doesn't mean I don't

care about how I look but it can't be the thing that I use to get people to buy into me and it certainly shouldn't be the most important thing about me. I now feel 100% confident in the fact that I offer so much more than just being a pretty face or whatever, you know, having a set of abs. I think that I worked so hard to try and develop that voice that was, that went beyond just looking a certain way and looking the part, I had to like actually deliver the information that people really wanted. So I think that I kind of went on that kind of learning journey, I guess, of finding that. And that took me a while. Like it's hard to find your voice, especially when it's one that feels completely new and an alien to you but I just had to unlearn leading with my body and being

my body first me second I think I so appreciate what you said though is that it's because I think we have again it's quite all or nothing culture it's almost like for people where body image is a challenge and you know we live in a very kind of aesthetics focused social media first world where diet culture is rife and and you know how we look is a currency still in lots of ways to your point earlier you know we say we've changed but we've changed to an extent the extent is good you know but it's probably not enough and I think there's something interesting there but equally so it feels unrealistic to say, okay, I'm going to stop putting how I look first and foremost, like I've got more to me than that. And I want to feel comfortable and confident to share that with people and be myself and not feel

like I'm only here because I look a certain way, but equally to not to say it's okay to still care. Because I think that, that again, it's the nuance that's often missing, isn't it? But did you feel that you needed to build back up that self-esteem that self-worth that self-belief like on a personal level as well did you feel especially after that kind of very difficult experience in your teens that you had this work this like inner work to do for yourself to feel that confidence to be completely you liked or not liked yeah I think so and I think that I had to work really hard and I'll be totally honest I had years of therapy like three four years of working on that I remember going to my therapist who I eventually worked with for like I said a number of years and my first thing was going in and just being like, oh, I feel a bit lonely. And I just don't, I find it quite hard to make friends.

And like, she was like, okay. And we worked on that for maybe a couple of weeks. And suddenly, like the floodgates opened a few weeks later. And I was like, I run it really hard. It was almost like I just had to like, completely open up about everything that I felt over obviously a period of time. And actually, what came about was that the thing that was really missing and the thing that I think drove all of what I did was a complete lack of self-esteem. I think inside of myself, despite trying to put across this image of happy, smiley Alice and being on the cover of a magazine and you know doing all all the things that I did actually what was deep inside myself was I have zero self-worth I have zero self-confidence and all of this is a kind of

fake it so you make it thing which I think massively stemmed again from being in theatre because we're basically taught to be happy and smiley all the time and I think that it was really I guess enlightening for me to realise that I wasn't nailing it that I wasn't actually that confident that I was deeply unconfident within myself and lacking in self-esteem and I think the biggest thing that I had to learn in therapy and the thing that I always reference as my therapist helping me most with was realising that I'm a good person I think it biggest thing that I had to learn in therapy and the thing that I always reference as my therapist helping me most with was realizing that I'm a good person. I think it's so hard for all of us to just be like, I'm a nice, good person. I know that I am. to be told that you're not good and told that you've done something wrong and told that you're not right for whatever someone wants or feels about you to know deep down in yourself when you

go to bed at night like I'm a good person and regardless of the messes that I make you know in life and whatever and the mistakes that I make I know that I'm a nice good person and I know that I'm a nice, good person. And I think that was like, that took so long for me to get there. But I think that in terms of self-esteem, I think that's the crucial building block. Like when I wake up in the morning, when I go to do my job, when I go to the gym, when I engage with people, like ultimately I'm a good person and I'm okay. And if people don't like me, that's not a reflection of me not being a good person or I'm okay. And if people don't like me, that's not a reflection of me not being a good person or not being nice or liked. It's a normal thing that we're not meant to get on with everyone in this world and we're not meant to be everyone's cup of tea and that's

okay. But as long as you can put your head on your pillow at night and say, I'm doing all right, I'm okay, I'm a good person, then that's the most important thing. So I think learning that then brought about all the other stuff, brought about the ability to not feel like I was my body because I was actually, I was a good person. So I didn't need the body so much because I knew I was okay in myself. And look, I'll be totally honest. Like I think having a relationship and a partner I always hate using this because I think I don't want to make it seem as though you need someone else to make yourself whole but I do think that the right person in your life can make you and I use this analogy

with Paddy and I think it really it makes me smile even saying it but like he shines back into me what I can't see in myself do you know know what I mean? I know it sounds really cheesy, but like, I think at a time when I really struggled to see the good in myself, he was able to like put that back into me. And I think that now I can see it. And I'm like, obviously I feel like I can definitely do that. I'm a good person thing. But I think at the points where I couldn't, it was so crucial to have someone who was a really kind decent person who was able to like shine that back into me and I cannot tell you how valuable that was at some of like my lowest ebbs just to like have a person who who was able to do that yeah I understand that completely actually because zero self-esteem was something I didn't it's funny that

I say I didn't realize I had it because I don't think I've really ever said this before but when I was very little like six seven I used to tell my mum that I hated myself like I'd write her nose telling her I hated myself so this is like a very long-standing issue I don't say it flippantly but like why I didn't realize it was an issue until I was like 30 I'm not really sure because that seems now in retrospect not right to feel that way when you're kind of so little but it wasn't until actually I was with my husband now then you felt I felt I had a safe space then it was when I felt really saved and really loved

and really supported was the time I felt able to actually explore my mental health and put it back together again and I don't think I could have done that without him and I feel proud of myself because I feel like I've done it you know and you can only do that work yourself and you've got to want to do that that work but equally I totally agree with you I think feeling deeply supported and deeply loved and deeply seen when you can't see it in yourself can be really transformative at the same time and I think sometimes we're so quick so we've got to love ourselves first and we do but sometimes we need help being able to do that 100% and I think the biggest word that I picked up on there was safety

I think when I was with Paddy I finally felt for whatever reason and obviously I said I had a loving loving childhood and whatever but for some reason like being with him makes me feel so safe. And I think that you're absolutely right. Like, I don't think happiness can be found in another person, but I think that when we feel safe, we then have the breath, the openness, the ability to then be able to work on ourselves. And I think it is about, you know, we can feel safe. Maybe that's with a friend, maybe that's with a therapist or a family member. But that sense of safety, like go towards those people, go towards those people that make you feel safe. And I think my experience with friendships, with certain aspects of my family environment, I maybe hadn't realized this, but I hadn't felt a sense of 100% safety. And when that was then offered up to me, I then had the complete ability to then say, oh my God, I can now start to work on myself because I feel safe. And I think that's such a big thing. And I, you know, to anyone listening,

I think find your safe places because it's only then that we can then really start to like peel back the layers and be our truest selves because we've been given that sense of safety and again it's not necessarily with a partner it can be whatever that looks like to you but it's so crucial that you find those places and what do you do now having kind of spent the last few years learning to be able to say i am a good person like I really like myself I respect myself and by the way I found that almost impossible to say to myself to start with like it felt so sticky and so uncomfortable I don't only say that because I think if you do have that disconnect and you start trying to actively work on it it almost

like shines a really blaring light on the fact that saying that to yourself is so difficult. I do little affirmations with our kids now every day because I'm like so desperate that they, or passionate about, I should say, about them have anything I can do to embed that in them from an early age, being able to say every day, they say I'm special, I'm loved, I'm proud of myself, I'm clever, I'm confident. Just so, so and then I can do anything whether you should tell toddlers they can do anything I don't know but they'll come back to bite you though I think that one will will come and get me at some point but I guess it's that empowerment and that like could that empowerment be innate and if they're not going to get it just your affirmations but making that the norm which I never could say to myself ever and now I can and it's so liberating and I'm interested what you do now like you seem sitting here today

exceptionally comfortable in your own skin and more so than many people I've ever met in my life which is such a testament to the work that you've done and the hard work you've been through in the difficult periods to get to this point and what do you do now to kind of foster that to keep that and I guess to keep growing it I would say going back to something that we've touched on being comfortable with the messy parts of myself I think it really is about a constant sense of recalibrating where you feel good how you you feel good. But knowing that, and I've had actually quite a few experiences over my life where I have really thought that I was just an awful person, that I must be really unlikable. I must be, you know, really not someone that people want around

them. And I think I just hadn't met the right people. And I'm sitting here, I'm going to turn 30 in a few weeks. And I feel like I'm only still just meeting my people. But I think that the biggest thing that I would say is one, being okay with your bad bits, like being totally honest, like learn to love those bits of you. And how do you work on that on a day toto-day basis like if you have those days where you feel those traits are yeah are more apparent yeah do you have a kind of way of talking to yourself or framing it or thinking about it I think it's about being curious like what is this telling me I'm really jealous of x and it happens all the time by the way I can be quite a jealous person of some things like not necessarily people but like I can be jealous of physical things or like say someone's got like

an amazing handbag I'm like oh I really want that and I guess yeah maybe it's like a light a light level of jealousy but it's sometimes when the more kind of insidious stuff creeps in I would say like I try and be more curious about what that's teaching me, rather than instantly labeling it as like, oh God, what an awful thing to think you horrible person. I'm now like, oh, that's interesting. I wonder why I felt that. That's really weird. Is there something that might've happened that has made me think that way? Or can I look at this a different way? Like I'm feeling X, but is there any way that I'd be able to like speak about it or write it down and actually think about it in a slightly different way? I still might come out of that and feel the same way, but at least I can be curious and observe that emotion in a much more

kind of calm way rather than the constant internal narrative being, I'm a bad person. I'm a bad person. Oh my God, I can't believe you thought that. I can't believe you said that. And I think that that's really crucial. And I think being just generally curious about how we are, allowing things to come and go, like most of us will have negative thoughts at some point, you know, mine are almost daily, but I know that they're not me. They don't make me who I am. They're just a part of me. And they come in and sometimes they stay for a bit longer and sometimes they go very quickly. And I can observe them and be curious about them, but I don't let them sort of stick to me like a label. I just sort of let them float in and out freely, basically. And I know that sounds really

woo-woo. It doesn't at all. I think stopping defining yourself by those feelings is incredibly powerful. I know that was something I found very liberating. It's created a lot more ease. Those days where you do feel really low or you're struggling with something, knowing that tomorrow might feel completely different. And I definitely used to be one of those people that would be like, almost like suddenly define myself by it and find it hard to move out of I think you're absolutely right and we we often try to put such binary sort of labels on ourselves and define ourselves by certain metrics

and actually I'm gonna say it again but I think like ultimately for me anyway, the most important thing is that I can go to bed knowing I'm kind, I'm nice, I'm a good person. I did my best. I did my best. Exactly. I just think that if I can ground myself in that, everything else can sort of go, you know? And I think that that's, that's something that I really, really do try and do. I also think like, I think journaling is massive just as a side note I do think that it helps you to be really curious about your thoughts and it's probably the only place that you can be 100 vulnerable you know and be able to just like get that out onto a page yeah I think being less obsessed with like these

kind of definitive versions of ourself and parts of ourself and just sort of allowing ourselves to be quite fluid and I guess knowing what's really important to you when you lie in bed at night what is going to make you feel whole you know maybe that's not being a good person maybe it's other things for you but whatever it is like just make sure you can always ground yourself back to that, basically. And you talked about journaling there. Do you have any habits that you do kind of daily or daily-ish, weekly, that you feel keep you feeling well? Yeah. So I'm terrible with actual journaling, but I use an app called Dailyo and I'm in no way affiliated to them. This is just, I found it by chance on Twitter. Someone

was talking about it. And as someone who really struggles to journal, it's basically an app that you kind of track your mood on. So you say how you feel each day, you can put loads of different metrics in, in terms of like how you slept, blah, blah, blah, whatever. But it has a little space at the bottom to just do a bit of a note for each day. And I probably write maybe four sentences, like max each day. But it is so nice. And I get a little notification. That's the best part because otherwise I forget. I get a notification at eight o'clock every night saying, have you done it? So it reminds me to and it means that I literally just before I go to bed, or when I'm getting ready to wind down, I have a bit of an offload of whatever was happened that day, you know, good, bad, whatever. I write it down. I feel like I've sort of offloaded a little bit and then I go to bed and I forget about it. And

I actually find it fascinating to go back and read like these little journal entries. And I think a lot of people can feel like they need this like proper paper diary and like get their pen out and kind of be doing like sitting at their desk. Calligraphy. Yeah exactly and I'm like oh I'm gonna be totally honest I can't be doing with that but an app where it's like interactive and it gives me that reminder every night to do it is perfect for me and it's like I said four sentences max but it's really really good to sort of just have that little bit of an offload and I sleep better for it and are there any other things that you do kind of daily ish to keep

yourself well yeah I think we spoke earlier about reframing what health is and understanding that it's going to be different to everyone and you know my version of my best self right now is having a few non-negotiables but being really loose on them I think the things that I probably stick to the most are sleep is so crucial for me I am a great person when I've slept well and I'm not the best person when I haven't and I know that I'll probably go completely out the window if and when god willing I have a family but like for now sleep is really important to me I would say that movement and that's not specific exercise but daily movement whether that is literally walking stretching doing something

that moves my body usually like in the morning is really crucial and I find that helps things like my cognitive function my ability to sleep my stress levels my cortisol all that sort of stuff so movement do you try and do the movement first thing if I can but it's not always possible but if I can yes because then I have no excuse not to do it being totally honest yeah um I would say when it comes to food I am so loose when it comes to I don't have any and I've had to work really hard to get to this point by the way so it sounds very like lovely but I don't have any food like rules as such I try and be really intuitive but I do try and eat a lot of green stuff and colorful stuff and I guess my only thing that I would say I relatively stick to is variety in terms of what

I understand to be good for our health and well-being we know that particularly a variety of plant-based foods is great for us so I I think across the week, I just try and eat lots of different colours and lots of different vegetables and fruits. It's not like a rule, but it's something that's quite nice to aim towards. And then like my exercises is my escape. I really had to work on my relationship with exercise and I'll be totally honest, there were times when I had to just stop completely because I was very like all or nothing. And it led you know doing lots of exercise and then binging or doing nothing and then feeling terrible about myself and it you know I went through this horrible cycle but really feel like now I use exercise as part of a toolkit of stuff that makes me feel good it's not

the only thing and I think it's really important for it not to be the coping mechanism because as with most things in life, you can have too much of a good thing. And I definitely went down that path, but it is definitely part of my toolkit. And it's something that I think for Headspace, for feeling physically empowered, it's amazing. And I genuinely enjoy my training and have such a good balance with it now and it's something that I really see as like I said a part of what makes me feel good but not everything yeah I love that I I totally agree I have to say and in how empowering moving your body can be almost like the most empowering thing when you feel strong or you feel like you're

growing in strength it's unbelievable it really is but um Alice thank you so much for your time today honestly it's been absolutely amazing I just so appreciate you being so honest but also just so kind of deeply relatable and said like your you know your non-negotiables and the things you do to keep well again like they're all just so easy and I think as a kind of closing thought I hope that is what people take away from everything we've talked about today which is that again wellness well-being the health space whatever one you want to call it you know 4.5 trillion dollar industry that is focused a lot more on complicated things and quite expensive things and quite dogmatic things quite reductive things and a lot of tracking and all the rest of it and I'm not saying that nothing has a place I'm not saying

that nothing has value we're all different and what has value to me is different to you and so on but I think what's powerful is just this point that like what's really given you confidence and joy and fulfillment and like a true sense of health mental and physical you know is a relationship with yourself is being compassionate to yourself is you know trying to sleep more and trying to do some exercise and eat more colorful foods and write down a few thoughts like all of these things which are so I say simple and I know it's not as easy as flicking a switch you know there's lots of other kind of nuances and relationships past and present that make some of those things more complicated. But I do think it's just it's symbolic of the fact that health can be more fun, more fluid and more accessible than I think that we sometimes think it is.

A hundred percent. Definitely. And look, it feels like a real full circle moment to be sat here because I'm like, I've literally followed you for years. I can't believe I'm on the delicious yellow podcast but I think um I I love what you've done and I think that it's just so nice that it feels like a lot of us have been on a bit of a full circle moment and a kind of just a nice journey and it's so nice to see it's so nice to see people doing well it's so nice to see people doing their thing and being happy. And I think that I look to everyone I follow online and I just want the best for them. And I think it's just, yeah, it's amazing to have people like yourself and many others doing things that I think are wonderful, varying and wonderful in the health and wellness space.

So no, thank you so, so much for having me. It's been such a pleasure. Such pleasure and good luck with your wedding. Oh, thank you. Yes, the next journey thank you so much for listening to that I hope that it resonated with you I hope there were moments of inspiration and ideas for your own personal growth I certainly took a huge amount from Alice and I have to say sitting opposite her she radiates self-confidence and self-belief in a way

that I feel is quite unusual and in such a genuine way which is just really special to be around actually and I so appreciate how honest she is how candid she is and I think body image is such a universal challenge and something that we need to open up the conversations around and I think she did that so beautifully and so honestly and as always in terms of this empowerment these tools for your life will be compiling the tools that we have that fit those universal themes on feel better our app so if there are themes here that resonate with you you can find that toolkit as always same for all our previous episodes and all the details for that are in the show notes and please I would love to hear what you think every single time that I get a piece of feedback on social media or I see you share the episodes it means so so much so please keep

that coming subscribe to the show it makes all the difference to the ratings and how many people can find the show and if there's anyone you want to hear from or want me to talk to, please do get in touch. Our email is just podcast at deliciouslyella.com. Otherwise, just a huge thank you for listening. Huge thank you for being part of this community. And thank you to Curly Media for being the best partners in producing this show. You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads.

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