The Wellness Scoop - Are We Being Lied To? The Wellness Scandal

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

This week on The Wellness Scoop, we’re unpacking the stories that are reshaping the way we think about food, health, and community. We start with a major new report exposing the rise of nutrition misinformation online — with up to 24 million people now at risk of following harmful diet advice from unqualified influencers. We dig into the shocking stats, the financial machine behind viral health content, and what needs to change if we’re going to rebuild trust in expert-led wellness. Next, we look at the government’s quiet U-turn on a healthy food policy — after pressure from ultra-processed food giants — and why it matters more than ever in a cost-of-living crisis. We’re also shining a light on the growing trend of real food heroes like Medjool dates, exploring the science behind their heart and gut benefits. And finally… saunas. Yes, really. From Finnish forests 10,000 years ago to floating sauna parties in Liverpool, we explore why this ancient ritual is having such a huge cultural comeback — and what the science says about its impact on stress, sleep, pain and longevity. Plus: a powerful personal story from actress Julia Stiles on body image, sample sizes, and learning to trust your body again. Recommendations: Julia Stiles' appearance on How to Fail with Elizabeth Day The Badger Trust - good to know where to find help when you spot wildlife in need Ella's book recommendation: Hello Beautiful by Ann Napolitano Plus you can order Rhi's new book The Unprocessed Plate ⁠here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get unlimited grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Meal prep delivered. Snacks delivered. Fresh fruit delivered. Grocery delivery on repeat for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at PCExpress.ca. Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are are your hosts I'm Ella Mills and I'm Rhiannon Lambert and after a decade in the wellness industry we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be and that's why we've

created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple fun and personal. And I'm just gonna say I think we've got the juiciest episode yeah I'm gonna call this a scandal episode. It is literally a scandal. Biggest one. Yeah, here we go. I know I'm so excited. But before we get into it, I just wanted to say thank you guys so much for a few weeks. Now, we have been number two in the charts,

and it just means we're reaching so many more people. And we are so, so, so grateful for that. Exactly. It just means that we know that people are listening and hopefully we're making a little bit of a difference in your lives as well as it is therapy for Ella and I as well. This scandal episode really is like I've never been more excited to talk to you. But anyway, please do keep rating, reviewing, sharing with friends,

popping on your social media because we want to make this accessible, pressure off, fun, take on wellness as available as possible to as many people as possible. Exactly. So Ella, come on, give us this juicy headline today. What's coming up in today's show? Okay, a viral health trends putting 24 million people at risk. We have got supplements that don't contain anything

that they say they contain, the government policy that was scrapped after lobbying from food giants. And then some positive stuff, the £2.50 dried fruit with major heart and gut health benefits. Why saunas are going mainstream, is that a trend worth following? And a brilliant excerpt from Julia Stiles on healing her relationship with food. Okay, so just before we cut into the episode, Ella, I've got the most incredible feedback. So I've actually found it on our listeners Insta story and she tagged us in it and I thought

this was a really nice thing to play to you all. So I'm making my way back to London and I have parked at a service station as far away from the entrance as I possibly can. I'm trying my best to move my body more and get more steps into my day. And a friend a few weeks ago recommended an incredible podcast to me. It's called The Wellness Scoop.

You've probably already heard about it. It's Emma Mills of Deliciously Ella and Rhiannon Lambert. I think she runs this amazing Instagram account called Retrition. I'm now following her. And I'm learning so much about how to look after my body, how to move more, about nutrition, but it's advice that is not condescending, it is easy to understand. So if you are into wellness...

So basically she was saying we're not condescending, which I'm really glad because I really hope we try to be really, really fair and non-judgmental and that she parked deliberately because of our podcast at the back of the train station. I just love it honestly. Yeah, we both there's a lot going on this week. We are shooting the cover for our new book. We've done this massive, I've spent 18 months working on this collaboration with this amazing brand for a huge cookware and kitchenware range. We're shooting all of that. Got to try and finish the cookbook, all the rest of it. And then when you get things like this, this kind of feedback, you think, goodness me, I am so glad to be working so much because getting through to people, that's what it's all about. Oh, Ella, it's so, so lovely, isn't it?

Honestly, guys, and it's just been very, very busy for Ella and I. And I think everybody's in the same boat. I feel like May and June as months in general are really hectic because people are trying to wrap things up before the summer and I finished my audiobook I can't believe I'm two weeks out Ella from my book coming out. So exciting. It's exciting and nerve-racking I think but I wanted to share one little thing for everybody now everyone listening I think you'll have gathered by now that I can be quite sensitive. And whenever I'm driving my car, and especially in country areas, very sadly, if I see an animal by the side of the road, you know, it can affect my whole day.

I will see it and I feel quite traumatized by it. And I'm sure I can't be the only one. This is a very random subject to bring up on the WanderScoop. But it has a purpose because I don't think people will know this. If it's a badger, there's something called the Badger's Trust and in the UK, if you see a badger by the side of the road that's been hit, you contact the Badger's Trust, it's very easy, you quickly just say where you were, you can call them or submit it online and they send someone out to check there's not a set nearby, so it's not a mummy badger or a baby badger, just to look after our badges because they need to be protected.

And I didn't know that. And it's so reassuring to know it's such a random recommendation. But honestly, I contacted the Badgers Trust last week. It just made me feel better about my day knowing that if this mummy that had sadly passed by the side of the road had left babies, they're going to be checked on.

You're such a good person. Okay, and you have another act for us this week that I have now jumped on and wanted to put a bigger emphasis on the show notes because it was fantastic. Tell us about it. So I was on the aeroplane on the way back with the kids and I don't have a tablet or anything for myself because I gave it to the kids. So I downloaded Elizabeth Day's podcast because I saw she had Julia Stiles on it. Her podcast is How to Fail.

And Julia Stiles was opening up to the pressures that women feel in society about body image in particular. And I was obsessed with Save the Last Dance. Obviously she's iconic. She's been in so many things. Is it Riviera, the most recent one, or this program that she'd done on Netflix somewhere? But basically it was a good listen, Ella, really, really just hammered home

that everybody feels the pressure to be thin. 100%. So I saw a re-put this in the show notes and I listened to it straight away. And if you guys haven't listened to Elizabeth Day's podcast, it's called How to Fail. And she basically has well-known people in and they will talk about a series of failures in their life and reflect on them and what they learned. And Julia Stiles' third failure was quote unquote hating her body in her 20s. And she just reflected on it in a way that I thought was so relevant for us to talk about today because what she was saying was she didn't have an official eating disorder,

but her relationship with food was still restrictive and controlling and she felt this constant stress to maintain a certain size, always wondering what if I gain weight? And she said she couldn't help but develop therefore this disordered mindset around it. And she's just talking about the expectations to fit into sample sizes, the unspoken pressure to look a certain way as a woman. And obviously she's operating in Hollywood and of course that's different to all of our day to day lives. But I think there's a way she spoke about it that just felt so deeply relatable, that kind of quiet pressure that I think so many women feel.

And that's what really just comes across so effectively. I always felt Julia Stiles as an actress was a really positive role model because she's very healthy. You can see she glows everywhere she goes. She's one of those types of actresses that you can't help but just stare at in that type of way. You know, she's incredibly talented. And her quote there was that every woman struggles with body issues and it's such an effing waste of time. I mean, when she said that, I was just like, thank goodness. And she was saying how when she was on set for Save the Last Dance, she was so

body conscious that she wasn't good enough here because she had to do scenes in the ballet industry and the ballet industry as we know is notorious for certain body shapes and sizes. And Elizabeth just added so much to the conversation. She brought her own experience in. I think we talked about her essay, didn't we, that you were reading Ella on Substack? On Substack, exactly, about a Zempik and the kind of, again, these pressures that women feel. And Elizabeth was really honest and said, yes, I often have that kind of inner

critic at the back of my head saying, you should be thinner having that. Again, this sort of constant quiet pressure about image that as I said, I think actually so many women relate to and they were both just very candid and honest about it in a way that I don't think you had talked about that much. She even said, you know, if I want some M&Ms to get me through the afternoon, you know, there were moments she was talking

about these everyday items and she said, after she had a baby, you know, she's like, I just need an egg sandwich for my brain to focus. She was so candid about it. And one story she shared Ella, when she was filming with Julia Roberts, they were filming the Mona Lisa smile. I love that film so much.

And Julia apparently had said to her, you're going to look back on the photos of you in your twenties and think I was beautiful. Why didn't I see that? Isn't that just so true? I think we all do this. I look back now even 10 years ago and think, oh my gosh, I was beautiful. Why didn't I see that? Isn't that just so true? I think we all do this. I look back now even 10 years ago and think, oh my gosh, I was so young. But in the time, you just don't realize.

I know. And we're all so hard on ourselves and we'll pick up on certain things that we don't like about ourselves just too often. And I think this conversation is really illuminating. So if you want to listen, and you're short on time, you can actually just fast forward essentially to about minute 40. And it's a sort of 10 minute conversation on the pressure of body image. And I think it's just very valuable. But the thing that's so nice is actually really empowering

because she was talking about, as you said, this reframing that she had then had about learning to trust her body and nourish her body and how that's really freeing for her. And she's now looking so much more outward than inward. And I think that's just very solid advice. It was beautiful, especially now she's a parent as well. And Ella, you've got quite a few things to share.

I mean, your book recs are so good that one of our listeners, cause I was reading the feedback, said we need to create the wellness scoop book club. I've always wanted to have a book club. I'm obsessed with reading. I have a new one I've started. So if it's good, I will share next week. Maybe if we do sub-stat first, maybe we'll do a book club.

Okay, so I read a book while I was away last week called Hello Beautiful by Anne Napolitano. I've seen it everywhere. It's actually got really beautiful covers, beautiful painting of a woman. It's very much a kind of modern take. It's set in around the 80s-ish on little women. I think Four Sisters, the story of them growing up and it's so beautifully written. It's absolutely heartbreaking, but in a phenomenal way. It's so powerful. If you're going away, you've got a few days off, or you're looking for a nightly read, I could not recommend this book more. It's one of the best things I've read in ages.

Okay. Will it make me cry is the question I always ask you. Will I be sobbing? In a kind of positive way for a moment at one point, but not it's inherently a positive, empowering book. And I actually took a lot from it. Okay, another one on my list. Thank you. Ella, let's move into the health headlines that matter. Oh my gosh. Okay, basically we were putting together this script and this wasn't the intention when we were writing the script, but we suddenly both realised yesterday we've accidentally

created an episode that's essentially full of scandal. And there's things we actually could have put in and I felt it was too much. But we've got a whole series of headlines that essentially show the level of lies that take place in this industry. And I think we should start with the nutrition misinformation in the digital age because I think it frames everything really effectively. Ree shared this, I think with me a week or two ago, and it was essentially a new report from the Rooted Research Collective and the Freedom Food Alliance. And it's titled Nutrition Misinformation in the Digital Age. From keto to carnivore, up to 24 million social media users at serious risk from harmful

nutritional advice shared online. And honestly, it is nothing short of genuinely shocking because it essentially details how these 24 million people are at risk from the health content that they're exposed to mostly on Instagram and TikTok. And this report found that 67% that is a huge, huge number, two thirds of millennials and Gen Z users on TikTok are adopting nutrition trends they've seen on the platform multiple times a week. And the longer we've done the show, the more I can really see it. This kind of bold, confident, this will change your whole life content is really having a dangerous impact.

I know that's why. So I actually sit just for full transparency on the board of the freedom food Alliance, um, as a nutrition advisor. And I'm very proud to, because when you get these sort of statistics, it's just so gut wrenching. And I think the real concern is what the trends are obviously based on because when they're analysed the content, you know, only 2.1% of nutrition content aligned with established public health guidelines.

And Rhee, can I just stop you there to just clarify that means 98% of content that is going out on these platforms is not aligned with public health guidelines. That is 98%. I know. And I feel like we've kind of lost trust in public health guidelines perhaps as well because of this. And you've got to remember guys that to create anything that can be applied on a blanket level, because of course we know we're unique, nutrition should be unique, but that's impossible on a public health level to apply. It takes over a decade's worth of research to collate something you can give out to everybody.

So public health guidance is there for a reason, because it is safe and it is credible. And the gap now between credible information and popular content is just getting bigger, Ella, because of platforms like TikTok and Instagram. They reward, like we always discuss, those attention grabbing items and trends and reels. Social media allows content to be created, edited, reposted, deleted

in seconds and the misinformation speed is insane. It's just awful. It's emotionally charged whereas evidence-based advice tends to be slower Ella. It's more measured. It's more nuanced and that's why you won't see people like myself doing these reels that are just, I don't know, getting like 20 million crazy views on TikTok. Well, fundamentally, nuance can't go viral. That's like as simple as it, Gams, in the sense of it isn't click-baity.

Nuance doesn't have click-bait. Eat more carrots can't be click-bait. And I think that's fundamentally where the problem is. And I think that's like fundamentally where the problem is. And I think it's also just worth noting in this, obviously, that there is so much money to be gained from this. And that's where it all becomes so murky and so complicated. And obviously, both self-aware, like our incomes and our careers have been based very online

and very much in the kind of health and wellness world. So we obviously understand that. But I think it's worth putting this whole context together. So Instagram alone is projected to generate over $32 billion US dollars in ad revenue by next year. And that's the ecosystem that's rewarding the viral click-baity type content. So this report then looked at 53 of the biggest, they

called them super spreaders accounts on Instagram. So they're the creators who are driving the majority of the misinformation that we're talking about here. I can name quite a few of them I could think right now in my head. Yeah, most have no formal training, no credentials, etc. But 96% of those people are making money and actually some of them are making over $100,000 a month from selling things like raw milk, unregulated packages. And so we're talking about huge sums of money. And so again, I think that's just so worth taking in if we just take a step back, which that 98% of the information being shared is not credible.

And that information is being shared because it's very emotionally charged and it's very extreme and extreme is what works for clickbait. And that's why it goes viral. And by account of going viral, you can make this much money. And so you have to kind of understand that if people want to make that much money from social media alone, now they have to be extreme. And it's just a very, very dangerous cycle. When I got into nutrition, my husband made a joke. He said, oh, because you're doing some NHS, I was doing some NHS stuff at the very beginning. He said, oh, you know, you're a health professional now.

We just accept your salaries. What it is, you know, that's what it is. But perhaps the most unsettling part of this whole story we're discussing is the lies. So one in five of these influencers are pretending to be doctors. Now, this happens for nutritionists because it's not protected anyway,

but you don't expect that with doctors. And that's where the problem comes in. So they're using medical titles, wearing white coats. Some of them aren't. And the problem is you also then get doctors who are doctors but aren't regulated anymore that do wear white coats and stethoscopes and build trust. And they're not practicing doctoring at the moment.

There's so many blurred lines and regulatory bodies can't possibly cipher through all these people online. And then how do they enforce things? They'll just find them. And then these people are earning a hundred thousand, whatever, like you said, a month. It's nothing to them.

So they're promoting diets that are extreme. Like we said, the raw milk, only meat perhaps. They make it seem revolutionary, aspirational. and it's not just talking about nutrition anymore. It actually becomes identity. So we've now got to the point where our political views, our cultural narratives are shaped in a different way. It's not just eat for health. You know, it's saying don't trust mainstream experts. You know, they're hiding the truth from you. The government aligned. The rebellion is powerful.

And you can see why we are all just confused. Yeah, it feels like Covid really expedited that conversation in terms of don't trust mainstream media, don't trust mainstream experts. And I think coupled with a lot of kind of complicated political climates, particularly in the US, I think we've gotten to this very, very, very complicated and murky place. And as I said, but that and then that is terribly aligned with the way that social media platforms have changed with the advent of TikTok to really, really fundamentally just reward extreme content,

because that's what has the virality. And we're left with this kind of quagmire. And I think there's two things to pick up on that, which is that first of all, the World Economic Forum's 2024 Global Risk Report showed misinformation is now considered the single most pressing global threat ahead of all climate change pandemics. And if you open the papers

and look at the pressing risk of war, I mean, that's quite something in the world today. And I think that then it's really interesting. And this is how we kind of accidentally created a scandal episode is actually again, this is becoming so to the forefront and in the papers yesterday, so this will be a few days ago by the time this episode comes out, there was a headline. So it was a big oncology conference in the US and the headlines ran like, you know, the Sun loves the sensationalist headline is a tabloid newspaper in the UK if you guys don't know it. Their headline

was lethal lies cancer patients risk dying because of rubbish they read on social media. But it's true. That's what's scary about this headline Ella is that, you know, the NHS leading UK charities, international experts, they're all raising the alarm here because they are seeing cancer patients refuse life-saving medical treatment in favour of radical diets or unproven alternatives they discovered on TikTok or YouTube. I mean, my mum has just finished her chemotherapy and it's, for the best part, has worked. And if she hadn't have had that that I don't even want to go there but she's on different treatment now instead she's finished the chemo she starts a different one but we cannot deny the fact that vaccination rates are

going down, wars are rising, everything seems very very sticky. Yeah and so there was this study from University of Bologna in Italy and they found that between 88% and 100% of the most viewed cancer related videos on social media contained false or misleading information. Which means that basically every video that people are seeing now is essentially, yes, either false or misleading. And so, as I said, there were doctors presenting at the American Society for Clinical Oncology Conference and that's what was being reported on. And they're now saying they are watching patients consistently delay treatment

until their cancers become metastatic or incurable. So metastatic means it's spreading guys, it's moving, it's multiplying and it's traveling basically. And there was another paper at the conference that looked specifically at TikTok videos on prostate cancer screening. And every single video, every single video, was rated as low or moderate quality content in terms of actually being helpful. The researchers were really highlighting that misinformation in this case doesn't always come from outright

lies. Sometimes it's just cherry picking stats, it's oversimplifying research or it's emotional language distorting reality. So it's come from somewhere, but it's being entirely misconstrued. And, you know, we have an amazing extra soup coming up actually on this type of thing. How one tiny strain of truth in a big conversation can almost give something validity, but it gets really misconstrued and why the human brain jumps on that, why we act on these things and an element of truth makes things very, very easy to believe because it's slightly more believable, but it doesn't make it factual. And we discussed this and it's left experts

like Dr. Fumiko Chino saying it's plainly evidence-based medicine that's lost. We need to almost regain a battlefield. But with a lack of regulation in every industry now, online, I don't see, Ella, how we can regain the battlefield. Yeah, I was really struck by that quote. I think they were speaking from this conference and it's a direct quote from this challenge they were raising, the idea that evidence makes medicine has lost. And I think it is just this very, very odd situation that we find ourselves in. I think it was not to bring it back to us, but I think that was why we wanted to start the show, wasn't it? Because ultimately what we're seeing, it feels as social media now, don't get me wrong, like it can be a fun place and I'm not doing it down entirely,

but it just feels like a terrible place to turn for actual information. Use it for a stir fry recipe, use it for a hack to paint your room, like, you know, for a cool idea to make a Halloween costume. Put strawberries over, no, net over your strawberries. Yeah, I'm loving my gardening content too, but I just would say I almost, I wouldn't trust the thing I see on there because clickbait is the only way to get content through now. And unfortunately, as we've seen with this, almost 100% of cancer related content is incorrect.

98% of nutrition content is incorrect. I think you've got to be so wary. And then the scandal continues because really last night, what's that mean? Sorry, another one. An embargoed piece of content. I think it just shows like what is going on with this industry? Tell us about these supplements. Honestly, I get sent a lot of these things that come out, but this one was particularly interesting because we discussed Career Team before, hadn't we?

In the episode, we delved into that. So if anyone listening is unsure, a few episodes ago, we did a bit of a deep dive into this particular supplement, the benefits, the information, what you really need to know. And a new independent study that's actually published this week has said that there's a serious problem in the booming fitness supplement space, which we knew already, let's be honest, two thirds of the bestselling Amazon creatine gummies don't contain creatine, Ella. Like they don't contain creatine.

It's just that I honestly, I don't know whether to laugh, to cry, to like give up now or go home. You're just having a gummy full of sugar and probably a load of plastic. I just don't understand what happened to this industry. It boomed and- It's Bell Gibson again. It's coming back in a different form.

Yeah. It feels like we were joking about what to call this episode and we're like, is wellness a lie? Like, it's just so were joking about what to call this episode and we're like, is wellness a lie? Like, it's just so much of it is now a lie and it's a con. And it's because there's a lot of money to be made in it. It's the monetization of it that's the lie. And as a result, everyone jumps on it. But the idea that you have heard about creatine from an influencer online spreading some false information about it,

you go to Amazon to buy it and you buy a gummy that doesn't even contain it. It's like, what are we doing? There's actually just a little fact for you guys. some false information about it. You go to Amazon to buy it and you buy a gummy, they just leave it in a container. It's like, what are we doing? There's actually just a little fact for you guys. When you're looking at supplements, I know for children they may have a certain place. Remember they could be choking hazards as well, depending on the age.

But it's very rare you have good bioavailability from gummies no matter what a company says or sells to you. Cause you'll see, I actually saw one supplements company, because I'm debating about Retrition Plus, what I'm doing about it. I've been so busy Ella, you know, so busy just to bring back the supplement line. But another company used this amazing AI ad and it was full of not real people walking around saying, oh, but one thing that's real is our supplement.

And they had this image of this mother with like two babies walking around with a perfect lifestyle and it was all AI generated. You just, the money behind these adverts, the marketing in this particular space is very, very concerning. And Rui, when you say they're not as bioavailable, you mean they're not as easy for people to absorb, right? Yeah, and gummies are just full of, you've got to remember, how do you make a gummy? Often gelatin, you can make it sometimes in different ways to be vegan, but it's rare you get that in

supplement form. Tons of sugar for taste, palatability. The way you store and hold the suspension of a supplement within a gummy, trying to explain this in a way that makes sense, just the body doesn't recognise it. It has a hard enough time with pills and tablets, let alone a gummy form, which you've chewed down and your stomach acid is most likely to just plough through. A liquid supplement is the most effective then? Do you know?

It depends on the type of supplement you're taking. For instance, I did my vitamin D sprays when I had them as a spray because I knew then in the side of the mouth and the cheek or under the tongue, you can absorb well into the bloodstream. I can't say pills are not effective because of course you get something from them, but what I can say is liquid is better than gummies. You don't want to go near a gummy, I don't think. Yeah, I think that's very sage advice. I'm excited to quickly share with you all that you can pre-order my new book, The Unprocessed Plate Now, and Ella and I discuss this all the time that the world of food and nutrition is currently

full of conversations surrounding ultra-processed foods and this is for good reason and in my book The Unprocessed Plate I dive into what UPFs actually are, explore the latest evidence on how they impact our health and most importantly how we can reduce our reliance on them without overhauling our entire lives. And remember there's a lot of nuance guys, there's a privileged conversation, lots of things here. But I want to cut through the noise and offer actual practical solutions. There's incredible diagrams to make the science more accessible and there's 60 amazing recipes, family-friendly, everything from breakfast, weekday dinners, quick lunches,

simple swaps and snacks and things you can have on the go that makes such a difference. Trust me, whether you're a busy parent or you're just trying to reduce these in your diet on your everyday workload, this book is here to support and empower you to get back to basics with food without the pressure of this perfectionism. So if you want to feel more informed and inspired in the kitchen, then you can pre-order your copy of the unprocessed play now. It's out June the 19th. And back to me and Ella.

Okay, we've got another scandal because we're just going for it today guys. That's so big. This one actually made me cry though Ella. Like I think I shed a tear. I hadn't seen this piece of information and read it in the show notes and I was WhatsApping her when I landed back on Sunday from our holiday being like, I'm literally, my jaw is on the floor. And I don't know why it is because we all know there's a lack of transparency in most industries. But I think when we were collating the level of information about the kind of, yeah, how much misinformation is out there,

we've obviously talked so much over the last few months about how terribly kind of regulated the whole nutrition industry, how like pathetic the government is at creating any level of intervention that actually serves public health in terms of changing the way that the food industry works and what's available for people on a day-to-day basis. And then you see this headline. And as I said, I don't know whether to like quit now, cry or like shout louder. It's very unclear. But essentially, we talked, didn't we, a few weeks ago about the fact that the government said they were going to bring in some different legislations to support healthy eating in this country a few years ago. And lots of it never came to fruition. And what's come out is as a result of

a Guardian investigation is really shocking and essentially the UK government dropped the healthy eating push after pressure from huge food conglomerates that serve ultra processed food. At the time the Department of Health and Social Care were preparing for the high fat salt sugar regulations basically the rules to restrict supermarket promotions of foods that are high in these items fat, salt and sugar and it was due to come into force in October 2023. So to help retailers prepare, the government issued this draft guidance and that first version actually contains something really progressive and I was really excited about

it. But the aim of this policy is to shift the balance of promotions towards healthier options. You know how the marketing and children are exposed to it and all sorts of things, you know, for example, two-for-one deals in the supermarket, discounts, loyalty points. And what they wanted to do was put those items on healthy things. Let's do two-for-one on fruit.

Let's do loyalty points for whole grains, fresh fruit, meat, fish, anything. It was a really practical proposal and it wasn't just about banning things. It was about moving things out over into a different space. Exactly. To make those better choices, easier, more affordable. It's honestly shocking. So the opening line in that article essentially sums up which is government legal advice urging retailers in England to offer millions of consumer deals and discounts on minimally processed

nutritious food was dropped after a lobbying campaign by the world's biggest ultra processed food firms. And basically the Food and Drink Federation, which represents huge, huge global brands like Nestle, Coca-Cola, Mars, Unilever, Montleys, they repeatedly lobbied the government to remove those references, the references to doing two for one deals on things like fruit and veg. And on the 1st of June 2023, the guidance was changed. That whole section was, I honestly feel I'm so scandalised, I can't believe it. That whole section was deleted. And the final version does still support the HFSS restrictions, which we've seen, which is where you can't sell sweets at Till Point, for example, but you can still do loads in Ireland, still do all the promotions, but it didn't say anything about shifting promotions towards real minimally

processed food. And that is what we need. Your point is not about banning stuff. It's about making healthier food more available and more accessible and more approachable. And that was deleted. It's such a loss. I feel like it's a loss. And it's something that I feel like I've spent my life in this industry and I was so naive to things at university thinking you can make a change. I do still obviously advocate for that and I'm not going to give up. But we know how much pricing and placement affect what people buy, Ella. You know, promotions on Whole Foods could have been such a game changer

because with the cost of living crisis, it's hard. But now we've ended up with a half a policy, you know, one that tells people what not to buy, which everyone knows anyway, without clearly supporting what they can buy instead. Exactly. And we need positive nutrition and positive reinforcement. And I think that's what's going to really shift. And I guess lots of you might remember we covered the broken plate report back in February, which was talking about essentially how expensive it is to eat well nowadays.

And it really hammers home how important those policies really fundamentally were. It showed that healthier food is now more than twice as expensive per calorie as less healthy options. And those prices as a result of all the pressures, the economic pressures in the world today have been rising faster than junk food at double the rate over the last two years. It's awful. And the stat I use a lot in talks at the moment, which is the most shocking one from the report, is that in the most deprived, so 20% of households, they need to spend 45% of their disposable income to meet the government's, you know, recommended healthy diet.

But what's worse is that rises again to 70% of their income on food. If they have children, Ella, how can anyone spend 70 percent of their household income on food just to eat well? It is mind-boggling it really really is in terms of how on earth are we going to change the country if we can't have you know go forward with simple things to some extent like two for one on broccoli. I know this is why um this side note the books that I write, I love working with my publisher at the moment because we do education resources that go into schools and universities.

And I feel like at least that's something, but it's not enough because the people that need these books can't get a hold of them. The government aren't supporting anything. And you do feel like you're hitting a bit of a brick wall. But how scandalous that behind the scenes, they're not doing anything but the Soil Association guys has an online petition and you can go and sign that so go

to the Soil Association's website it's dot org and it's about reducing ultra processed foods let's not make those industries win let's beat them. Let's beat them yeah. Come on round of sleep listeners. Yeah let's beat them. Yeah. Come on. Round of sleep listeners. Yeah, let's go guys. Anyway, I'd genuinely please let us know on socials, on comments, on Spotify, Apple, et cetera, what you think, because I think we really both, even though we all know lots of this thing in our hearts, there was something else that came out this week about, you know, depending on who's funded what study, how good it looks. So essentially like the companies

that fund studies looking at red meat make it look like it's not that bad for you, but actually lots of red meat is bad for you. And we'll cover that probably in detail. We were like, we can't take it too far. We'll all be too depressed to keep going. Do you know what's funny is I hosted an event for British berry growers yesterday. And the theme was, let's say goodbye to the fry up.

Why in the UK are we known and celebrated for fry ups when 95% of fruit, berries, come from the UK are we known and celebrated for fry ups when we 95% of fruit like berries come from the UK why our national dish is like a fry up and fish and chips mushy peas if you're up north I love mushy peas I know and then you look you know you shared again with me this week like a chart showing the rate of ultra processed food in different parts of Europe and it's three times lower in the Southern European countries on average because they have a stronger food culture.

And I just, God, we need to make a change. And I think when you see how hard people are lobbying against changes that will fundamentally change our country, we desperately need it from a health perspective, for the NHS perspective, from an economic perspective, because it's having such a terrible effect on productivity, how dire our health is. We're in such desperate need for change,

and yet there's people profiteering on false information that gives the wellness industry such a terrible name. It makes it- The moral compass is spinning so fast right now, it just does not stop anywhere. I don't know what to do. We'll keep this a safe and welcome space for you guys. And on that note, we will move on to a nice positive little nugget for this week,

which was something a bit sweeter. As I said, this was in The Telegraph and they published a piece on dates. I love dates and they called them the £2.50 dried fruit that lowers your blood pressure and boosts your gut health. And again, I just love this kind of thing. Little nuggets, tiny things we can do to make a difference. Oh my goodness, dates are so underrated. They're just so good. They're chewy, naturally sweet, and they don't impact your blood sugar

like you think they would. So when we talk about the benefits to your health, the sustainable swaps, this is such a good example, Ella. And the article said, a typical 34 gram serving, which is one large, medjool date. Now, they're my favorite. Oh, that's so good. Because they're like the really soft, big ones.

Juicy. Yeah. Or you can get, if your thing is those smaller ones, four to five smaller dates, you know, the smaller ones that give you roughly 90 calories, about 2.6 grams of fiber, and a big dose of potassium. So there is nothing bad about eating days. And potassium's really important. I think obviously again when we're eating so much

ultra processed food, we're not doing as good a job as getting those key vitamins and minerals in our diets anymore. And potassium actually plays a really important role in regulating blood pressure. Dates contain more potassium as well per gram than bananas. And obviously, you know, I feel like we were all told as kids when we were doing like a running race, have bananas for potassium. Dates guys can do it too. And obviously we all desperately need more fiber in our lives. Most of the country not getting anywhere near

as enough fiber as they need. And fibers obviously supports your digestion, helps regulate your blood sugar, and contributes to overall good health in your gut. I think a lot of people think dates are just really sugary and it doesn't impact your bloodstream because of the fibre content in the way that you actually think it would. Of course, for some individuals that might be pre-diabetic or diabetic, it might not be the best idea to have as frequently. But for most of us, they're so great and they're

rich in polyphenol, so they're antioxidants as well. So beta-carotene, the version of vitamin A, lycopene, flavonoids, and it reduces inflammation in cells. I could go on and on. Basically, we love cooking and adding dates and mixing them with chocolate. Yeah. So I just loved that headline. So it was a really nice reminder again, in the overwhelming, confusing quagmire that

we have established today, that is the wellness industry. It's nice to note that there are just little things you can do like get a date, pop the pip out and put some nut butter in the middle. Even better if you dunk that in dark chocolate and then freeze it. Oh that's a good snack. But you don't need to do that you can just dip it in your nut butter for extra fat and protein etc. Even more well-rounded snack. They're gonna load you up on nutrition that we all need more of. Do you know the first time I tried, so I'd never had like a fresh date before, and then I was doing this job for a family, it was such a surreal opportunity.

A lovely family in the back of Grosvenor, kind of way in London, part lane, very, very well-to-do, royal-esque family. And they served these fresh dates, and they're much bigger than the module dates, the ones that come straight off and the taste was it was very different it was the most incredible thing I've ever eaten. Dates are completely underrated in some cultures they are just a must like they have them daily. Yeah well it sounds like we should be having them daily too. I know maybe we should bring some in the studio next week. Should we bring some dates in? Okay guys we're going to move into our trends.

This is something that we said we'd cover for ages and kept getting moved because there is so much to talk about at the moment. I reckon we're sending like five headlines a day to each other. More, more this week. Wow. I don't know what's happening this week but wellness is everywhere but we are going to talk about saunas. It might surprise you to know that the earliest, Ella, Western saunas were dug into Finnish forests over in Finland 10,000 years ago.

Isn't that amazing? And it's almost like that scene from Frozen, if anyone's watched that Disney film, the really funny bit where they're like running in and out of the hut with their towels, because it's just such an ingrained part of their culture. And these ancient steam pits, as they were called, were used for warmth and cleansing and even childbirth. Because of course, these countries in particular over in Scandinavia, you know, you've got more dark, that's colder. The climate's obviously very different. And in Finland to get today, there are over three million saunas for a population of just five million, Ella.

I know. Ninety percent of people take a sauna once a week. How cool is that? I mean, I have one in my house. I really want one. I want one. I'm kind of, yeah, clambering for one at the moment. But that culture is catching on in the UK too, which is so cool.

Now there is a thing called the British Saunas Society. What? Yeah, there's a British Saunas Society, who knew? And they say the number of Finnish-style public saunas in the UK has doubled in the last year alone. And I think what's quite cool is it's becoming a social thing. So I was looking up how trendy this is and it was covered by every media outlet. You can imagine Vogue were calling Saunas the new place to hang out, saying, forget

the pub. That was in the headline. Dazed, again, very trendy outlet was describing them as the hottest place to be. And basically there's a lot about how people are swapping because obviously a huge number of younger generations aren't drinking and they're swapping pints for plunge pools and sauna sessions. I know I saw those headlines and one about how

if you do drink it's a boozy brunch now rather than going out in the evening. But the sauna thing is so, so cool. But I always wonder, sauna etiquette, just quickly. When I go in a sauna, I always sit at the bottom because I can't actually, I need to train myself to sit at the top. But equally, do you talk?

Do you not talk? Some people have music and it's like an awkward silence. Do you know something really funny? This is such an aside. I have a sauna blanket, an infrared sauna blanket, and I'm obsessed. Got it in COVID. Please send me a link to this,

because I have a heated normal blanket. I need this. I'm obsessed. I do a COVID. Please send me a link to this, because I have a heated normal blanket. I need this. I'm obsessed. I do a couple of times a week. Really? I've had it for four years now. Ella, this might be the best present to myself ever. Yeah, it's phenomenal.

But you know, my dad actually met Matt in a sauna. What? And that was the result, how we met, talking about etiquette. They were a member of the same gym and they met in a sauna. And as a result, how we met talking about etiquette. They were a member of the same gym and they met in a sauna. And as a result, I married him, created delicious yellow and ended up here today.

So I saw them. You are literally linked to wellness your entire circle of your life. How funny is that? So the etiquette there was they did start talking and as a result, they realized, cause my dad had worked with his mom for ages. They realized that they knew each other, swapped details and then he asked my dad to introduce us. Okay, so yeah, on the not drinking

note, nearly 43% apparently of 18 to 34 year olds in the UK have now given up alcohol completely, which is crazy. But we talk us through the benefits, obviously, because it's in our trend section. Is this a trend worth pursuing or not? Yeah it is. I wish it was more accessible to us but a major Finnish study found that 63% lower risk of sudden cardiac death in people that use saunas four to seven times a week. So the thing is that's compared to once a week you actually have to use a sauna lots and I feel like most of us just dip in when we've got time if there's one in your gym and most gyms don't have them let's be honest. But Ella, a lower risk of dementia and Alzheimer's, sauna use may reduce your risk of neurodegenerative

diseases but we don't really understand the mechanisms why at the moment. Some people think it's an improved immune function, it's very early research. What definitely I think has a lot of research is pain and tension relief. Do you find that you know in hot stone massage or people talk about the benefits of heat that, you know, in hot stone massage or people talk about the benefits of heat packs, cold packs, it makes sense? It makes so much sense. There's also early research suggesting that

saunas can help prevent colds and other viral infections because it can support immune function. Again, lots of evidence about stress relief may be helping to activate that parasympathetic, your rest and digest nervous system can help reduce cortisol, support your mood, improve circulation, better sleep. Basically there's a huge amount of research showing a huge number of benefits, but probably quite unsurprisingly, because there's again not a huge amount of money to gain.

There's not loads of research and lots of it's quite early stage. But it's more promising than the cold plunge research, which I will say, I find it very interesting that that seemed to be a viral trendy thing that everyone's got these baths in their gardens. I'm not dismissing it guys. I know there's some research on it, but there's actually negative research for cold plunging too now, which I think we did delve into. Whereas there isn't really any negative research for being warm in a sauna for an exact amount of time. Don't sit in there too long enough

to see if you're pregnant. That's not a good idea. No, exactly. For kind of otherwise healthy people, essentially is really promising research for a multitude of different physical and mental health benefits in saunas. So definitely, I would say a big tick on trends. And also I love this idea that it's a community thing and a way of getting together with people that's not drinking. And also I love this idea that it's a community thing and a way of getting together with people that's not drinking.

Actually, I feel like- And you can't put your phone in there Ella, because it heats up. And I actually think what an amazing thing that you can't go in with tech. Well, and I know people do, you know, you have put their headphones on and everything, but I think it's a wonderful thing to try and do,

especially because the Finnish ones, they use heated stones and dry air, and it does reach just so you know 80 to 100 degrees Celsius and you can add steam by pouring water on the stones. And then infrared saunas which is the other type they use a kind of light essentially to heat the body directly with lower temperatures of like 50 to 60 degrees. We don't have the studies on the infrared. No they're much newer.

Yeah. But that's what the blankets are for at home use. Can you send it to me? I'm going to actually buy myself one, and then we'll report on the blanket. Yeah, I got it in lockdown, a COVID gift to myself. And I love it. I guess that's kind of like a biohacking trend.

Yeah, not to be gross, but the sweat feels so good. Does it? Yeah, it does. You feel really like. Do you have to sit on a towel? No, you just like clean it at the end. No, the sweat stays inside the blanket. This is really gross.

Yeah, let's stop. TMI, TMI. Moving on. And then you just clean the blanket. Great. Okay, I don't know what the second trend is. No, you don't. It's a link to Instagram.

It's a surprise. I always find these fun surprises. Here's how you make my super easy three ingredient low calorie, no bake no refrigerate no flour no nuts no gluten no egg no milk no honey no cow no crown no meat no wheat no zucchini no linguine no stress no mess five-star tofu marinade. How cool is that? So everyone's doing these funky trends where they're basically taking the mick of course of always multiple trends on the internet

and it's actually really positive because I think it reaches people that it wouldn't normally reach because you've got this funky beat, you've got really cool raps being made and it's just a bit of cynicism in a world of deep dark confusion. Toffee recipe looks good too. Toffee looks really blooming good. I thought you'd enjoy that one. Yeah, tofu needs a marinade. It does need a marinade. So Ella, let's move on to our listener question this week and that is what's the one wellness habit that you both swear by and the silliest trend that you've tried? Okay, who's going first? You have to go first. Okay, for sure the silliest

trend that I tried was when juice cleansers were popular. And this was very, very early on. The sun, I like to ask them. 2015, 14? Yeah, 15, 16, maybe 14, a long time ago. And they were everywhere and there were loads of like juice shops that open up all around London. And I think the longest I ever did was two days and I ate quite a few like peanut butter crackers in the meantime, so I just couldn't do it.

Yeah. days and I ate quite a few like peanut butter crackers in the meantime so I just couldn't do it, unsurprisingly when I look back on it. But I remember really falling for the kind of rhetoric around this will change your life in two days which is absurd. But we all did and I remember working in the fitness cafe in Parsons Green because I had this part-time job when I was at uni and I was making the food in the cafe and doing the consults and things and we were getting, it was such a huge demand for juices. Juices were everywhere. I remember going to the shop down the road

buying extra fruit and veg and coming back and juicing it because we'd be running out all the time. It was such a huge trend. And I remember being sent so many of these packages and they'd have a nut milk in them as well. And they'd come in like a big package to try. But looking back, I think I did that. My big one, Ella, would be spirulina.

I remember discovering what was called superfoods at a time where at university doing a nutrition degree, we hadn't really been taught about these, and suddenly the marketing things were cropping up. Yeah, there was a real superfood moment. There was a real superfood moment, and I got a job working with a company that sold them and I remember going on the ins And outs of what you could say and what you couldn't say and there were all these like crazy

You know pseudoscientific claims that they contain b12 So suddenly there was this trend of people that were vegan said I'm getting my b12 from spirulina I'm like, no, you're not. It's a mimic of the B12. It's not actually a good source of vitamin B12. And I remember putting this, I hated the taste. I put it in. Oh, it's disgusting. I just thought, oh, this is really good for me. It is really a vulgar taste, isn't it?

And I noticed now they've got one in Pret. They've got a spirulina bowl because it's bright blue. And it is fun to make kids food and things and put a tiny bit in, because you can have a natural dye that's bright blue, but you have to put so much sweetener in it to make it taste nice. Yeah, no, I remember buying some of that same time as juice cleansers really. And it was just, oh, it tastes like grass.

Well, I just thought I also had barley grass. And I used to make a lot of porridge. And I actually quite like that with barley grass. But then I like the taste of matcha and some people just will never be able to get around matcha but I liked matcha years ago before it was a thing. Are there any others? Do you like grassy flavors? I think I like grassy flavors I don't know why I would add goji berries on top. Oh wow, full well. I know I love that I think that's for sure the silly otherwise I would say I have been quite boring and really kind of sticking with porridge and bananas and chickpeas and things like that.

Walnuts. Walnuts, exactly. I think the thing that I, the kind of habit that I can't live without, I'm not good enough at the habit, but it's either exercise or it's a bit of meditation and neither thing I do daily. But they are the two things that I do regularly that I do feel keep me well, because they

keep me feeling balanced and much more sane and much more attuned with myself, much more accepting of myself. I love meditations that are guided that are like, I love myself, you know, I accept myself, because I've always had a terrible relationship with my self-esteem. And I would say that has been so impactful. Likewise, a 10-minute de-stressing breathwork when you just feel really overwhelmed and I find them so powerful. So I think in terms of the things I've stuck with, bar cooking, the things I've actually stuck with for years and years now has been regular exercise. It just makes me

feel like a different person and breathwork, stress meditation for calm and creating a sense of self. I went to see this man at a breathwork workshop with my friend Tessa, I must have been back in December or January. And we got into the room and he started talking about singing. And this is before I was doing the Amdram. And because I used to be a soprano, I didn't realize because no one spoke about wellness back then, this is a long time ago,

that I was already doing breathwork and benefiting from it without knowing. And then when I stopped singing for so long, I just couldn't explain what was missing from my life. It's not just the act of the singing. It was the breath work I had to do when I sung. And it was like a light bulb moment for me being in that breath work class,

because naturally I can sustain my breath, hold, exhale for quite long periods because of my classical singing days using my diaphragm and do diaphragmatic breathing. And I only realized this year and bringing more of it back into my life more frequently that it's not just about if you can sing or not. It was about that breath.

That's so, I can't sing. No, but it does. It's not about the singing. It's about the breath work. And I was like, this is what I was doing back in the day when I was on Weight Watchers and all the rubbish but what I was doing was giving myself something beneficial. So I think when it comes to wellness habits that stick like Ella says with meditation and exercise find you. What is the one thing that really resonates with you as an individual? Is it the

food? Is it the exercise? Is it the breathing? Is it the skincare? And just try and make a bit more of a thing of it. For sure. And really ignore, you know, we obviously talked about today, like, the madness of the online world. And I think within that, there's lots of stuff not being true, which is a fundamental issue in and of itself, a huge one. But the second thing I think is as well, is it's so easy to want to emulate other people. And again, I remember if I look back at my much earlier days in this all, you know, seeing people, for example, when HIIT training became really, really popular, and your kind of Barry's Bootcamp-esque classes were really taking off. And I remember people kind of swearing by them,

this had completely changed the way they look, and I thought, oh, maybe I should do that too. And going, and I honestly, honestly like it made me feel ill. It never helped me maybe stress. The illness that I had was a condition of my autonomic nervous system. I don't think for me therefore that kind of training where you're putting a nervous system under deep stress, it inherently makes any sense whatsoever. And I went to school and I really did leave and I didn't even try that hard in it because I'm not competitive enough when it comes to sport.

And I really remember like almost like feeling like I might die on the side of the road. It was just made me feel so depleted, so sick, so ill from a hit style sort of 40 minute gym class. And it was just really interesting. It's I think as you said, like what is sustainable is what's enjoyable and what's you. And so just because someone else is doing X, Y or Z, it doesn't mean you should. I think you do, you've got to find those habits. The reason I come back to those meditations, I actually really enjoy them. Like that's a real highlight of my day or

like I like going on walks. I love to try and get to reform a Pilates class. I know that's a really lucky thing to do, but I really enjoy it. That's a highlight. That is not me punishing myself. It works for you, Ella. I think what you said is so poignant because there will always be those people. And I've got so many friends. Cecilia and Jenny, they run a fitness platform called RWL

my friend Lucy created. They are hit bunnies. She's pregnant, nine months pregnant. My friend Jenny is probably gonna give birth any week now. She still goes to hit classes. And it's amazing. And she loves it, she thrives. Whereas I think I'm quite similar to you.

My body is just not designed in that way. I tried all of it too. The F45s and it was empowering and the units and things back then, but actually it was causing me so much stress. My body was not happy. It was quite inflamed I actually think. I remember that

period of my life. So you have to do what works for you and that's a really difficult thing to figure out sometimes. Maybe it takes that five minutes without our phone that we discussed the other week. Our non-doing. Try our non-doing to figure out what we need to do. Yes, exactly. God, I've loved this episode. Me too. I think it's been one of our best episodes. Let us know if you agree with that or whether or not we're just really patting ourselves

on the back. Oh no, oh no. Maybe you're all going to start commenting and saying, guys, it's actually too heavy. Let us know. Let us know. But we are going to see 900 of you on Saturday night at the Wellness Scoop Live. I cannot believe it. My last role on stage was umpalumpa number 10.

Ella. Don't wear orange now. Don't wear any orange dress. No, I can't, no I can't. It's huge, I can't believe it, such a career highlight. We cannot wait to see you guys there. I think there's about 10 tickets left or something. I would go now if you want to get them, just purely because I think they're in the gallery

but a really good view and at Cadogan Hall it's a beautiful theatre and you'll be part of the community, it'll be so fun. We've got great prizes, someone's going to win an LED face mask. Yeah, don't give it all away. Okay, we'll give it to you. We cannot wait to see you on Saturday. We love you guys. This community is everything. Let's see if we can get to number two in the charts again this week. Share it, rate it, review it, follow us. We just love this space. Thank you guys.