The Wellness Scoop - Beat the 3pm Slump, Survive a Bad Night’s Sleep & The Low-Down on Lie-Ins

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

How can we beat the dreaded 3pm slump? Could 20 minutes of exercise really help after a terrible night’s sleep? And should we actually stop feeling guilty about a weekend lie-in? This week, we share simple ways to boost energy as we head into autumn, from spreading protein across the day and eating more fibre to making your carbs work harder. We also unpack fascinating new research on exercise after sleep deprivation and whether catching up on sleep at the weekend could actually be good for your heart. Plus, fibre officially goes mainstream and we dive into the extraordinary world of the “most measured woman in history”, including why her health experiment means she can’t even sleep in the same bed as her boyfriend. The Way 30-day trail: https://www.thewayapp.com/wellnessscoop Send your questions for our weekly Q&A to ⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠ Pre-order your copy of Rhiannon's brand-new cook book for kids: ⁠'Ready, Set, Cook!' ⁠ For more from Rhi and Ella:  Order your copy of Ella's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quick Wins: Healthy Cooking for Busy Lives⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Order your copy of Rhi's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Fibre Formula⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sign up to Rhitrition+ and join Beat The Bloat HERE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I am genuinely so excited about today's sponsor because it's the way. Honestly, if you have listened to me anytime over the last few months, you know I have become a little bit evangelical about this app. And I honestly recommend it to everyone. My friends, my family, people on Instagram, everyone. And she recommended it to me, so it's true. I've heard so much about it. It's just because it has had such a big impact on me.

I've meditated on and off for 15 years or so now. but using the way it's honestly the first time we've become so consistent with this daily practice and I've just seen the most unbelievable results as a result of that the app is just incredible and what I love is every day you open it and there's a meditation waiting for you so you don't scroll that you don't have to choose between hundreds of options there's no wondering what to do it just takes you on a path well well I think that's why it works so well because you know most of us just don't need more big decisions every day to make Ella No, exactly that. We've got decision fatigue, haven't we? So this is so nice because you just follow this path of meditation, which is led by Henry, the founder, who's just the most amazing teacher. And he makes it seem somehow just incredibly simple, but exceptionally profound at the same time, which is a very rare skill. And I've been using it too. Yes, I've now finally begun a meditation journey and I've been doing some of the shorter practices on busy days because I completely understand why you talk about it so much, Ella, it really is. nice intro in for me. Yeah, it is and I'm so glad. Anyway, it's helped me feel so much

calmer, less reactive, more present. It all sounds like huge claims, but I just say, please, please, please try it if you're struggling with stress or overwhelm. You just got to give it a go. And the lovely thing is that everyone listening can definitely try it themselves. Exactly. So you can get a 30-day free trial, so just try it every day for a month. It'll change your life. All you do is head to theway app.com forward slash wellness. scoop. Yeah, that's thewayapp.com forward slash wellness scoop. Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are both here as your host. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rihanna Lambert.

And after over a decade in this industry, we both know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. So that's why we're here with this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living, simple, fun and personal. Today we are going to be talking about very important things for September. How do we beat our 3pm energy slump? How do we eat for September? The whole, you know, September's the new January thing. Should we be cutting out calms, more headlines about that?

Could 20 minutes of exercise help after a terrible night's sleep for anyone that's been listening? That was very interesting to me. And can we actually catch up on lost sleep? What about our weekend lions? Could they be good for our heart? And then on our trend section, we have got a very very important. very interesting dive into Brian Johnson, if you remember him, who's the man spending about $2 million on longevity, anti-aging. His girlfriend is doing the same, but it's interesting because

there's a female slant on the under-research part of women's health. So loads to talk about. Tons to talk about. Okay, so Ella, before we dive into the headlines today, what have you been up to over the past week? Now September's here. September is here. Well, do you know what I feel? like this flood of emotion. So as of like 20 minutes ago, my girls started at their new school. So I dropped them off. One successfully, one disastrous,

just like so many tears. But also after 10 weeks of summer holidays, I'm in the house by myself and it's quiet and there's no one here. And I'm kind of like reveling in it but feeling less of emotions. So I'm like, I'm all over.

the shop this morning. Do you know, there's something about learning to be alone. I know you've already, you're already at that point, but I really struggle with it sometimes. Like you said, do you remember you said you'd be happy on a silent retreat? I still definitely couldn't do it. I am so not there. But I think it's really important, isn't it, to be able to be with yourself and your own thoughts, because you're also doing the meditation classes again. Yes, we are back. I am teaching every Sunday night at 7.30pm. That's like a very slow wind down nourishing practice. And then I'm due Monday and Friday lunchtimes at midday. Yeah, come join. It's really fun. I've said to Ella, many a time, like I really need to jump on. So as soon as my work diary slows down a little bit,

I will be joining you all as well for some of these meditation classes. And then also, Ella, I think you just wanted to do a little note on something about Disney very quickly because we did, I mean, I haven't checked, you've checked the inbox. We've had a few messages about our, our thoughts. You know what? I'm like, I'm a big believer in everyone having their own opinions and I know most of you agree with that. But I was very cynical about Disneyland Paris and I had an email saying that I was ruining the magic. And I just wanted to say one more thing on it. And maybe that's just mad of me. And I do socially get it. I just also think that sometimes these things in life like you kind of feel like you should like something because other people like it.

And I completely agree in the magic. Like I was thinking about this Lapland, UK, I think is one of the most amazing things I have ever done with the children. It is exceptionally expensive. It is magic. It has this sense of make-believe of kind of like extraordinary otherworldliness. They're like little faces. I personally, you know, with anything in life, like one pound can be bad value for money and a million pounds can be bad value for money. and vice versa.

And I personally felt Lapland's incredibly expensive. I thought it was magical and unbelievable. I thought Disney, I thought they were just taking the Mickey out of people. Good one. I just thought it was so extortionately expensive and queuing for an hour and a half for a three minute ride. Like, I'm just not a fan.

So I don't want to be, I don't want anyone to think I'm like, don't believe in magic for children. Like, I absolutely do. And I love all the Disney films. And I totally hear that, places in America, for example, are like completely different. I just felt like they were taking advantage of people wanting to create magic for their children. And I personally felt they

were failing to deliver on the magic. Well, you know where I stand. And I am, honestly, everybody, I'm one of the biggest Disney fans you'll ever meet. And I agree. Paris, I agree with Ella's views there completely. And it's very different from the memory I have of America as a child. But also, I think as an adult, you're entitled to that opinion. It doesn't mean you're taking the magic away from your child. You'll still walk through and pretend everything's amazing, even though you're having the worst time. So I think it's very much how you look at it.

I think do people think I'm some horrific scrooge? No. I hate children. No, but honestly, if anyone's into a different type of vibe for Disney, this is normally something I say for our Thursday recommendations, but I tuned into the BBC prom. So for those of you that don't know, I used to work at the Royal Alba Hall.

I worked there for over a decade as well as one of my kind of many jobs when I was studying as a singer and they did a Disney special and my friend Lucy Jones was singing in it and Marisha Wallace was there, Celine did it they did all of Alan Mencken's music which is the music from Hunchback of Notre Dame

Pocahontas, Aladdin it was honestly spectacularous if you like the orchestra Is it on Ipler? Yes you'll be able to catch up with it I watched it on BBC too on Saturday because I was waiting for that 5.30 mark. I said the boys, I'm like, Mommy's watching TV at 530 today because it's a Disney orchestra. Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see that. I actually saw a few clips on Instagram and it looked amazing.

I mean, the music's amazing. The music is what brings magic. Everybody, I think the best things in life are music, food and art. That's what people say. And I completely agree with that. But I've got a busy week, Ella. I'm off to France, which I will update you all on next week, to discuss some new research that's come out for the gut microbiome,

which is very exciting. Ria, I just want to also pause you there and say you are extraordinary. You're 35, 36 weeks pregnant? Yeah, I'll be 35 weeks in Paris. I'm not allowed to fly, so I have to get the Euro star. I am freaking out. She's a powerhouse. I'm not, you know.

I can't, look, everyone might think this is crazy, and I don't want to give off the impression to anybody. that you have to do this, but I'm self-employed, and in order to have more relaxing time with my little one, I would rather do things heavily pregnant, even though I'm exhausted, than take a newborn with me and have to pay an expense for a nanny and childcare and all the other things I need to be able to action those things. So, yeah, but it's exciting. And also, it means you all still get to hear the latest information, because I'm not dipping out of it. I'm still there. Yeah, she gave me a little preview and what you're talking about. So we're very excited about that. I also have to say we had

such a good email listener feedback. And actually, there was a great question in it. So we'll save that for Thursday. But Glynis said she laughed out loud when she read this hilarious caption in a newspaper article. I faced more peer pressure to eat protein as an adult than I ever did to take drugs was a teenager. I saw that circulating. It's so true. It's so true. I don't know if you guys agree, but I actually, I actually do. Like I never felt peer pressure to take drugs. And I do think we feel peer pressure to eat protein. To eat protein, to take collagen, take creatine, whatever it may be next.

Thank you for sharing that, Visclinus. We love it. Do you know what, Rhea, I didn't include this in the headlines. Maybe this can be our segue into the headlines. But there was a woman, very, very sadly, late 20s in New York who died having an N. plus IV had a cardiac arrest and it didn't make headlines over here but it was in the press in the US and I just it's crazy isn't it we just say you know that peer pressure and like not that we feel peer pressure to take an IV drip necessarily but to kind of participate in the world

of wellness and should we be doing this and should we be doing that and it just shows that like and I'm not saying most people that would happen to but I do think it's just an tragic illustration of, and actually a lot of it looks like there was unregulated practitioners there and things like that. But anyways, I just thought it was a really sobering example. And Glynis's peer pressure quote is funny, but this is obviously not. But I think it speaks to the same thing of this kind of extraordinary pressure to kind of do it all when it comes to our wellness. It's absolutely devastating. After that, let's touch on those supplements again, just as a little reminder on third.

Thursday's episode for everybody listening. Do you know, it was so interesting. I met this person through the kids' new school on the weekend. And, you know, often would people find out, you know, what your job is and things are, you know, have lots of questions. Anyway, so we were chatting and they're saying, you know, well, what about this? What about that? And the next thing.

And they were like, and are you still like really into wellness and nutrition and everything? And I was like, no. And then they kind of did a double take. And I was like, no, no, no, not like I've backtracked in terms of like personal practices or beliefs, but more like I just actually feel so disillusioned and frustrated by the industry. I feel connected to it or part of it and I don't want to be either. It's so interesting. I made a real, because I'm still trying with the social content saying something that, you know, I just don't want to have to do all these different things every single

day. And we don't have to. As you know, Wellness Keep listeners, Ella and I's versions of wellness on here is just eating nice food, looking after ourselves and discussing all of these things and breaking it all down. So let's move on to our first health headline that matters. Okay, from smarter protein and fibre to fewer UPS, five easy diet changes for new season energy. That was an independent. Our very own re was a contributor to the article, as she often is, because she's brilliant. Anyway, I thought actually, obviously September has that like back to school, back to routine feeling. And actually, I think there's loads of, us who after summer, like, just maybe haven't, you know, I know, like I haven't really exercised

in the last few months. I'm excited with a bit more time with the kids back at school to kind of get back into that sort of thing. And I'm sure I'm not alone in there. Anyway, you helped shape the article. So I thought we could have a wellness scoop, a version of it, and go through the five different tips in there and how we can get a little bit of extra pep in our step, that new season energy. Because it can be very, very overwhelming. And I feel you can feel very tired, I think, in this new season. It's the weather changes. It's the workload. It's the mental load. It's the mental load. And these were amazing tips, I thought as well. Like these, I felt like the five were going to go through. These are like really relatable things. If you want to feel a bit of like, yes, for September,

I feel like these swaps and little shifts are actually like really plausible and incredibly practical and helpful. It's actually one of those really nice articles to do. So the first tip is to spread protein throughout the day, which leads on nicely from Guinness's quote, which is just you don't need to panic. One thing that I've become really frustrated with is the constant mention of, I think we mentioned it last year, ridiculously high amounts of protein targets for individual meals.

Protein synthesis doesn't work that way. It's across the course of a day, you know, the way we break down the building blocks of protein, the amino acids and build them up again. and then that goes to our different cells, to our muscles for cellular repair, for muscular repair. That's just a process that happens across the day. So the best thing you can do, rather than worrying about a number target at one specific meal, is just try and have a portion of protein at every single meal and snack.

That's how I've always done it in clinic for years. I think it's the most effective way of looking at it. Please remember that you do even get small amounts in oats and things at breakfast, nuts, seeds. legumes, tofu, obviously fish meat, eggs, like that's just a given and yogurt. So that's number one. The takeaway is that protein isn't about one meal. It's about the course of the day. I think that's a really helpful reminder because you see a lot online of like

POV trying to get 30 to 50 grams of protein per meal. And I know we want to have a balanced plate for our energy, you know, having like nice whole grains and having protein and having fats going to make us give us a nice, you know, which will go on to next about our 3pm slump. It will help you on your 3pm slump, but it doesn't mean you have to get like all of it in in one meal or huge amounts in one meal, which I think then A, can be a bit stressful and B, can make that meal a little bit less enjoyable. A thousand percent. Very, it's just too much pressure, everybody. Then number two, the tip is a fixed breakfast and lunch before blaming the 3pm slump. Now, I just want to say first of all that the 3 p.m. slump is a normal

normal physiological state, but the severity or the degree to which you experience it can be impacted, of course, by your lifestyle, what you've done that day, your age, many different, many different factors, your environment, you know, how distracted you are, what you're doing. But one thing you can do dietary-wise is to keep blood sugar levels more stable. And often people skimp on lunch, because when we're back to work, we're busy. We just think, oh, you know, I'll just nibble a bit, here or I haven't packed anything today or it's too expensive to buy this in the shop or I've made a poor choice and then then the snack seems to get forgotten about the afternoon snack people just think oh I'll wait till dinner but actually what happens is most people really experience those

blood sugar crashes at those times around the three o'clock is the time where often I say a useful kind of formula is having a protein of fiber rich snack but you just don't want to skimp on your lunch I cannot emphasize enough I know it's hard we don't live in a culture that supports lunch breaks still in this country, other countries around the world, they do it right. They take it. They do have a slightly longer working day, actually, and they go to bed a bit later. It depends what climate you live in. But if you're hungry at 3pm, don't try and just hold out till dinner. Honor that hunger. Do you have something that's going to add to your plant points? Have some fruit, but have it with some nuts or nut butter or have those dates, the

oat cakes, whatever you've got. Hummus, just don't try and restrict. I feel like that's such a common thing and it doesn't make the 3pm slump better. No, and I think lunch is often quite rabbit foodie. Yeah, it really can be really skimpy little salads. And we have luckily got these lovely trends now. Like you see them in all the supermarkets, the virality of even supermarket representatives now, you know, the people that are in charge of product development do all the videos for different shops now. They're all competing about it. But there are so many options out there. And it doesn't just have to be a boiled egg pot either. So, you know, do something that you enjoy. And then number three is keep the carbohydrates, but make them work harder. Honestly, we focus on one macronutrient all the time.

It's protein fat or carbs. And fiber is the gap. You all know this. You all know that fiber on this podcast if you've been listening as the one we're short of only 4% of adults get enough. Children are not hitting the target. 86% of school age kids are not getting the fibre targets either. I'd love you to pick better carbohydrates. That's a whole great bread. I think this is also so nice. We were just saying lunches often can be a bit rabbit foody, like just a little pot of soup

or like even, you know, in like your prets of the world, like you see the salads and you're often like, well, you know, you need a bit more, I think. anyways. And so I like this idea instead of, you know, we don't need to take carbohydrates away, but we can upgrade them so you can have a whole grain version. Or obviously, as we know, like beans and legumes are amazing because you've got your protein and fibre together, but thinking about adding quinoa, thinking about adding barley, thinking about adding rice, like pasta, you know, great. Like even as an easy work lunch, lunch boxes, like pasta with pasto, lentils, for example, that's the kind of thing you can make in literally 10 minutes. And it's also really

effective for the way our bodies are geared up for the day. Depending on what your routine is, most of us are very sedentary in the evenings when we get home. We've had a long day, rightly so, but it gets harder in the winter months. And one thing that I will be discussing on the weight loss journey on nutrition plus soon is that if you are able to have that larger pasta meal at lunchtime, it just enables a better degree. of choice for the rest of the day with your meals and when you're able to abide by. It's often when we're starving in the evening that we make those poor choices. So don't remove the carbs.

Upgrade the carbs. And then the next tip, number four, was put your meals back on the clock. We've spoken about this before. It does go sort of against the intuitive eating principles. But I think most people thrive off routine. We know our gut bugs thrive off routine. I think it's important to put it in your working diary or calendar that it's, it's lunch now and that I'm going to eat sometimes because there are some of you out there that

will forget, not me. I'm always thinking about when lunch is because I love it so much. But some people just forget. They do, Ella, they work through it. No, Tosie. And also, you know, if you are feeling completely normal this time of year, you've maybe been on holiday, you've gone to some weddings, you've had more Roseanne and barbecues and brilliant times with your friends and your jeans are feeling a little tighter. That's the kind of thing. That's okay to kind of want to, you know, feel like you're absolutely best. again, that's completely normal. I don't think there's anything you should feel bad about wanting,

but if you suddenly say, well, I'm not going to eat the next few days. That's not the way to do it. No, restriction is not the answer here. And by routine, I mean, you don't have to fast. You don't have to do anything about it. You can just a simple breakfast, lunch, dinner and snack routine can be super beneficial. The coconut water Ella is just drinking right now. I've just ordered a few buckets of it for my hostel bag.

That is, I just am so obsessed. I love it. I love coconut water. Okay, and then our final one is don't purge the UPFs. So don't kind of think, oh my God, I've got to throw everything out of my cupboards. Just rethink convenience. Yes, rethink it everybody because there's nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with the baked beans and there's nothing wrong with all the other items.

We said it last week or the week before Ella and I spoke about how we make dinners like this, cheese, toasties, all sorts of things. But I would like you to rethink, I'm going to get a bag of frozen peas out the freezer and use that as my vegetable portion rather than thinking that you don't have another option but to get something that's not as great from the takeaway or something. There's so many options available to us and I think we just forget about them. One of the challenges, I often ask people in clinic, is can you tell me what's in every freezer drive? And if you haven't sorted your freezer drawer out in a while, this is your September. A challenge. Challenge.

I used to do the kitchen detoxes, remember? So yeah, go through the freezers. What have I got to use up? What can I use and build healthy males around it? So it's a good time of year. Also, use up those old jars of tomato sauces. Sometimes we hoard them. They end up sitting there at the back of the cupboard and they go by their cell-by date.

So it's a good time to check. When you're a mid-sized business, you need every. competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system. And it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow, AI Cloud ERP for any size business. Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice.

I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my out of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IGPrivatewealth.com. Okay, our second headline this week is running as good as a nap to help cope with sleep deprivation.

was kind of picked up everywhere. That headline in and of itself comes from the times. And it's interesting, you know, we all have those moments where we don't have great sleep. That has been me the last month. And often our instinct when we're really tired is, you know, cancel going to the gym or something, drink loads on it to coffee or like be quite sedentary and conserve our energy and very normal response. But there's new research to show we might want to rethink that because this small scale but interesting study showed that 20 minutes of exercise could help protect our memory after sleep deprivation and worked as well as a 90-minute lap. I have to say, the reason I like doing the school run or sometimes I know I'll just feel better

when I get out the house is because I'm exposed to fresh air. I'm exposed to light, although I'm not looking forward to the darker winter months, but like I said last year, we're here. We're here to get you through these darker times. But the researchers here, we're from McGill University over in Canada actually. And it was a small scale study, but again, I think it makes perfect sense. It's common sense. It took 54 healthy young adults

and kept all of them awake for 30 hours under laboratory supervision. I mean, that in itself is torturous. After those 30 hours about sleep, they were then divided into three different groups. So you had one group that did the 20 minutes of cycling. Then you had one group that had a 90-minute nap. I think I know what I'd rather choose.

And then you had the conclusion. control group that I mean definitely would have want to be in this one that hadn't either exercise or a nap and then their memory was tested a few days later and they were asked to recall what they had seen and those that had either exercise or nap remembered more Ella up

to 22% higher on average they scored so remarkably in this particular memory test the 20 minutes of exercise was as effective as the nap now perhaps that's increased blood volume to the brain perhaps there's lots of different mechanisms

there that could have done this. But exercise is such an underutilized tool for our health for a majority of reasons. It's just seen as weight loss, isn't it? Yeah, it's interesting. Exactly, as you said, so they're 30 hours of no sleep. Then they're shown some images. And then they do their various different things. And three days later, they're showing the images again.

And as you said, 22% higher on average recall of those images, which is amazing. And it's, I think it's also quite interesting because obviously sometimes we don't have a choice about being tired, whether that's because we're doing shift patterns, whether that's because you work in aviation, for example, and you can have kind of strange hours or you've got young children or you've got caring responsibilities or you've just got a really heavy kind of mental load going on. And I think it's just one of those things that, yes, it's a small scale study, but it's just a nice bit of inspiration to, show that actually, you know, the reality is if you've like, you haven't had much sleep, but you've got to go to work, you've got to get on with the day. You can't have a 90-minute nap, lovely as it would be. But you probably could do a 20-minute power walk or go to the gym for 20 minutes. Like it feels plausible, cycle to work. Like the 20 minutes of exercise feels really plausible. But I think for the vast majority of people. And if you've got like a work colleague

or a friend or someone, at least if you could just walk around the corner to get lunch or go sit somewhere else in a different environment and a different scene, you've got some extra steps in and you'd probably feel, you'd probably feel really better. So I think that's a great headline that everybody could be working on there. So it doesn't mean you have to stick to the 20 exact minutes, but I just think moving in general, it's an underutilized tool, do some stretches at your desk, anything to help you feel a bit more awake. And then it moves us on to weekend lines that could potentially help your heart. Now, I've fascinated by this because obviously as parents you don't really get lions but um i used to pre-kids

oh i loved a lion ella i was lion queen so i have never i don't think i've ever had a lion like i'm such a yeah i know you just not i'm such a like morning person that i'm like let's go i am so lazy in the evenings like pathetically lazy and i feel like with the kids we kind of like we really tag team it like I'm so in charge of mornings. Like I am up. We're getting dressed. We're having breakfast. Like bags are ready. And I kind of take that. But in the evening, I'm like, can you clean their TV? Can you do that? Like, I'm useless. But yes, the headline in the Guardian was people should not feel guilty. Weekend Lions may be good for you. Previous advice stress risks of sleeping in, but about 90 minutes, extra sleep could prevent high blood pressure, which is interesting because I think we've been all

told so many times that you can't catch up on sleep essentially. And like generally the advice is like consistency, wake up at the same time, go to bed at the same time, including your weekends or you disrupt your body clock. But then as you were just saying for like the vast majority of people, real life doesn't really work like that. Like as we were just saying for various different reasons, you might be low on sleep in the week and on the weekend you can go to bed earlier. You can get up later. This is just it. I feel I've heard so much conflicting information from. from scientists saying napping helps. No napping doesn't help. Interestingly, we've got a friend who used to be a footballer and he swears by his whole family still napping like consistently

for a few hours at the weekend. They do it as a whole family, parents and children and they nap in the afternoon even now when their kids are past napping age. It's so, so interesting. But this came from researchers from the Career University in Seoul and they looked at 40,000. and adults. It's a lot of adults over seven years. And they compared weekdays and weekends and different blood pressure markers and physical activity. And then overall, the people that got the extra weekend sleep, they had 6% lower odds of hypertension. So potentially significantly different there within the study. But one to two hours extra seemed to be that useful spot that they'd found. So one hour and 27 minutes, to be precise, emerging as the specific sweet spot.

And those that got around this amount then had a 9% lower odds of higher blood pressure. So it looks like if you are able to have that extra bit of time, it could be helping your heart health. But you know, this isn't a prescription to sleep exactly 87 minutes longer. It's just saying that perhaps your heart does need the catch up in sleep. But there's so many variables, Ella, I think this depends on who you are, I think it depends on how active you are in the week because you'll still get more benefits from getting up to do that exercise class

potentially than having the lion. I mean, where do you draw the line? Exactly that. Although interestingly, according to the NHS, we're meant to get seven to nine hours, ideally for our health. Certainly haven't been doing that recently. I would be, I never do, but I would be nine hours.

Oh, you see, I'm a seven gal. Like, I don't think I've almost ever slept more than eight hours in my life. It is really interesting, isn't it? It's so personal, isn't it? But we average six to six point four hours at the moment. So there obviously is interesting. Anyway, you know, as we said,

I don't think you should go to sleep this weekend with an alarm clock on, be like, I must have to doze for 87 minutes. But see it as maybe permission to just relax, indulge. And as we know anyway, like sleep is so incredibly important for our general well-being. And so actually like just prioritising sleep in. enjoying sleep. And as we always said, like people think of exercise, weight loss, you know, these sorts of things as health and like actually a really juicy sleep. One of the best things you can do for your health. So some little tips of you all just thinking about this. Obviously,

sleep hygiene is really key. And we're actually a nation of chronic undersleepers. We definitely don't get enough in the UK. And it's linked to so many factors from eating too close to bed. Do you want to, if you can ideally have like a two to three hour gap just to aid digestion, try and keep your routine regular, like we said on one of our first hacks, you know, that can also help with sleep, screen time. But I do think we're just all a bit stressed and it can be so hard to switch off. And then the mobile phone in the bedroom thing, I'm sure that's a massive crux for so many people too, because it's hard. I've been getting into audiobooks recently, actually, and I'm trying to download a few for when obviously the baby comes. And I think that can be a really

nice way to fall asleep in the evening to an audiobook or a podcast. Do you fall asleep while it's playing? I just know that I'm kind of half sleep, halfway, can I turn it off? Because I try to read a book, but sometimes when I'm that tired, I only get like a paragraph in, but then I still end up tossing and turning sometimes. So I think it's a good thing to really prioritize our sleep. So let's move on to what is trending in wellness? Because we've got a few things today. So Rhee, you found this, isn't you, the first one, which is that Sainz breeze are putting fiber front and center, which is very cool to see. So they announced and then kind of showed off or revealed on their Instagram page, their full on fiber label, which is

going on more than 500, I think, of their own brand products. So things like oats, beans, broccoli, and it's going to be on the packs, but then also on the shelf edges to make it kind of easier to shop and online. More than 100 of those products apparently are included. in the Audi price match as well, which I think is really interesting. So it's showing, first of all, fiber clearly is having enough of a moment that they believe there's a commercial opportunity in signposting fiber. Like, I'm sure they're doing it for the good of the world, but I'm also sure they're doing it from a commercial perspective

because, you know, these two things can sit hand in hand. And so I think the fact that fiber is clearly, yeah, valuable enough to warrant redesigning and shifting and reprinting. or printing new packaging, that will have been packaging, trying to align it so that they all start to hit shelf at a similar time and redesigning that part of packaging. It's no small fee. It kind of is one of those things. It seems like, oh, you just put a sticker on.

No, and also the claims and what you kind of can't say. And it's a huge amount of work to reprint or like redesign the packaging or the plates that the packaging's printed on or the rest of it and then trying to get it all to hit shelf at a similar time to have this launch. So anyway, they've obviously put a huge amount of time and thought behind it. So I think that is testament to fibre. That is testament to fibre. And what's so interesting is Sainsbury's conducted their own research.

And even though people think they understand fibre, three quarters of them, only half of customers recognised that fruit was a source of fibre and pulses as well. So I feel like we still have an education piece and a long way to go. The nuance, I think, that's going to come from all of this. because as we say, whenever we make a positive step forward, there's always a catch, isn't there? Like we've had with the UPF conversation with some foods being deemised that shouldn't be,

the issue we're going to have with fibres that you can start highlighting fiber products that are inherently not great for our health as well. So while I obviously am all for it, I think it's fantastic, but it does not make that protein cereal bar a healthy choice with ingredients because it's got added protein and food.

fiber within it. But to add on to your everyday items that they contain fiber, I think that's a fantastic addition. Yeah, we definitely, we have goals. So the supermarket's aiming to add thousands of tons of fibre and millions of portions of fruit and veg to UK diets by 2030. So well done. It's cool to see. And yeah, as we talked about the other day, Eminet's doing the beans. And yeah, it just feels like these foods. I mean, I know when when I started. in the industry same time as you re like these were foods when i was like making butter bean this and broccoli that people were like like huh or it's like plant base and they're like what's that sounds like you remember someone being like sounds like you eat house plants like a little nipple on a

green pot in your corner and so it just it's really amazing actually to see these kinds of shifts because yes you know there is a hell of a long way to go if we're honest in terms of really changing the nation's diet and us seeing the positive impact in terms of our collective health, but also the economic and productivity benefits that would come from it and the mental health gains. But to see these kind of really large scale shifts, I'm going to choose to see this as real genuine like green shoots. Yeah, because how we perceive food as a nation, that's half of the battle, isn't it? It's really how we all associate what's our go-to-comfit food, what's normal, what's not normal, you know, that we're starting to see a massive shift in the times.

People understand that red and processed meat is not great for their health. Therefore, beans perhaps could be a more popular option now. I'm so excited. I feel like lots of big companies. And as you know, behind the scenes, I consult for some massive ones. They want to be on the right side of history. They don't want to be on the wrong side of history. I think some people, I can't speak for the massive, massive industry fiends,

but they do want to do the right thing. And I think it can be really difficult when companies are dealing with profit margins, making ends meet business challenges alongside health changes. So it's a good one. Right. The big trend that I'm very excited to discuss that Ella has brought to the show today is about Brian Johnson, the multimillioner, the biohacker, who just stepped back from longevity, but his girlfriend may not be. I don't think he has stepped back, Kelsey. He's got a health

condition, which he's been honest about. And he did that kind of cryptic tweet of like, maybe I took it too far. But I don't know. I think he's still going. But exactly. So this was an interview in The Times called My Extreme Life with Brian Johnson. And just to refresh anyone's memory, Netflix show on him. He is the Silicon Valley, like, multi-millionaire, extraordinarily wealthy, incredibly successful, all credit to him, entrepreneur. And he has made the headlines over the last few years because he has spent millions and millions different figures thrown out there, but certainly multi-millions a year on trying to slow or reverse his biological aging. He sort of describes himself as the most measured man in history.

Now, the interesting thing is his girlfriend, who's also his colleague called Kate. I don't know if it's Tolo or Tulu, but Tio L.O. Let's call her Tolo. Anyway, Kate is taking the same kind of biohacking approach now, but she's applying it to women's health. Yes, exactly. And there is a serious point behind it that I like.

I do like that she said women are understudied, which is true. We know this. We're behind with the study. gap. But it also does raise a question about the pursuit of perfection. Again, we already as women have a lot of those sorts of pressures upon us when it comes to aging specifically. And she starts off really by talking about optimizing things to do with their relationship and long-term health, which I think are really interesting. She says that, for instance,

they don't sleep in the same bed, which, you know, is fine. Because apparently we sleep better alone. I think we do. I mean, who wants? who woke her up by snoring, give it. I guess Matt doesn't snore, right? Carrie, you're okay, or me being pregnant, getting up like three or four times in the night. Exactly. But so she's doing something quite interesting. So exactly on this point that female health, and particularly kind of around like hormonal shifts, menstrual cycle, that that is, as we know, very understudied. Because it is really difficult to include in scientific studies, because obviously you, your body is shifting on a day-by-day basis.

And so, but it's incredibly interesting. So she is doing this 100-day experiment, which apparently is the shortest time required to be able to really get an understanding of, particularly with the cycle. And it's going to collect 14.8 million data points across her menstrual cycle. She thinks that will make her now the most measured woman in history. So what a couple. The most measured couple in history.

Pretty extreme. Every day she's going to do 100 tasks. It's monitored by a 12-person medical team and the estimated cost of this experiment is $2.6 million. But she said, and actually, do you know what we? I actually liked her in her interview. She said when we look for randomized controlled trials where women's health were often looking for studies that don't exist,

which leaves half the population guessing. And I think that's a huge part of the motivation. She said, for example, gave a stat that your cholesterol or during your cycle can fluctuate hugely, like even up to by 19% depending on what day or in your cycle you are. And so there's huge gaps, essentially, in the understanding on how our hormonal fluctuations could affect our health. I mean, she's only one person.

And then there's also the fact every woman and every cultural background and every bit of genetics is also going to be wildly variable. But for intrigue, I think this is great. And if it can open up doors and if perhaps Brian wants to throw some money behind some actual funding and big tests for women's health, that would be nice. Maybe he'll be motivated by Kate and say, hey, I'm going to donate and help everybody discover more about women's health, because I would love to see that. I totally agree. And as we know, like, our well-being does really change throughout our menstrual cycle. And then obviously perimenopause and menopause,

that has a humongous effect again. And so the more information that we all collectively have, the more empowered we are. But this is what she does. Okay. So she wakes up 6.30 in the morning. And at this point, she removes a vaginal techno tampon. So it's not like a normal tampon. It's like a stats reading data-driven tampon. To sleep in overnight. That's safe to sleep in. Yeah. And it measures menstrual blood flow overnight. Then she spits in a tube. She checks her temperature. She measures her HRB. That's all before she's even got out bed. Then she has an internal swab to test her vaginal microbiome, sorry. Then she tracks her reproductive hormone. hormones, weighs herself, does a 30-minute weighted vest walk wearing a UV protective face mask and

hat. Then she's 30 minutes in the home gym. She's also monitoring her urine color, vaginal discharge, nighttime genital engorgement, basically like every tiny bit of her data. So I'm very curious where this all goes, but we've talked so much about him. We can't not talk about her. And then one other thing that is quite interesting, obviously that was this moment when his Netflix documentary came out last year where he was literally everywhere. Also, sorry, it was actually all her. So he was doing this all quietly. She's actually like clearly a very bright woman.

She was the senior manager of global design operations at the North Face. She had oversaw a team of 70 people. And she then joined his team. And it was her that turned it into this like global phenomenon and this kind of extraordinary marketing tactic. It was all her. Of course it was. What's that phrase behind every great man there is an even greater woman?

Yeah. Anyway, I thought that was quite an interesting thing. Anyway, I'm sure once this has finished, we'll hear more about it. And I just want to say one thing. I sound like kind of a born fan. I'm not. But, you know, sometimes with influencers or with people in the media, there's this frustration of like, be like me, be like me.

I'm doing it like this. And you're like, I can't be like you. She said, I wouldn't want people to emulate this lifestyle. we are not normal people doing normal things. We're trying to be examples of the infrastructure that we can build for health. And I do think that's really important. And all credit for that. Because as I said, I don't think we necessarily hear that enough.

So yes, they're publicizing it. Yes, they're spending millions and millions of dollars a year. No, no one else is going to do or almost no one else is going to do what they're doing. But maybe we will genuinely learn things about optimizing our well-being throughout our cycle as a result of this. and I just appreciated their honesty. But I'm very curious about the whole thing. Yeah, it's fascinating. I can't wait to see how it plays out as well,

but I just really, really pray that they both then, from their work here, put some money behind some really life-changing research that they are financially able to support, you know, to really investigate things that can be applied and more across the board because these are still things that I don't think every scientist would say are measurable biomarkers of health. You know, they're still doing a lot of kind of, well, biohacking devices that don't have the grounded evidence to be an accurate measure of someone's health still. If you see what I'm saying, it's really hard to even implement any of some of the things that were listed off.

I'm sure there's obviously there's 100. We couldn't list off all 100. But you couldn't implement all of those into clinical trials. And I'd be really interested to see the layering of what happens next. You know, I feel like Brian was used as a sort of isolated case example, but she's kind of brought into the question, this is bigger than just our isolated case. I agree, but I'm also personally, like,

re-sent me a Instagram reel of this influencer who was like, what she does in the morning. And it gone viral is the husband saying that she's, what's it called? Crunchy wife. Crunchy, like an almond mum are crunchy. But I see a crunchy mom is. I feel like when people talk about that, they're talking about people who like eat kale salads and do yoga.

Oh, that's where it comes from. And like avoid Oreos. They're like granola mums is what it was called because essentially they're like getting you to eat like homemade granola sort of thing for breakfast as opposed to like cereal. So actually you and I are probably crunchy mums. Like we are probably like crunchy almond mums or crunchy granola mums. I do like crunchy food. I do like crunchy food.

But also we're the ones who like, no, you know, you can't eat Oreos every day. Like, yeah. No, you can't have. that without having this. Like, no, there are no ice creams, you know, if you can't eat a real meal. Like, you know, we probably do fall into that category, you know, we give our kids kaffir. I think we're probably crunchy.

Wow, we are crunchy. Yeah, now I get it. But then to this whole point in the beginning when I was like, I don't even know if I like wellness anyone, because I'm so disillusioned by the industry. Probably by those standards, we're no longer crunchy. But anyway, this was like the number of things involved in EMF blockers and this and that. It's like a five-hour routine. This was cost a fortune. But what I was going to say where this is what came from was like, and that's in the name of longevity. And obviously that's

tiny versus Brian Johnson, who's spending millions. But I'd be so interested in the like the baby version. They're like scientifically proven baby version. Like, yes, we know having a sauna twice a week. And then like, you know, going for a 30 minute walk when you wake up, like things that are an effort. I'm not saying it's simple. It's not the world's most straightforward nutrition. or wellness. But it is like plausible. If you don't have a family, it's plausible. Yeah, well, no, if your children are older. Like if you have teenagers, it's plausible. It's not plausible. Or if your partner's available to watch them. Like, it's not necessary. I'm not saying at all moments of life, it's straightforward. But it is for many people at many stages, with a little bit of effort, it's

plausible. I wish there was a blueprint for that versus, because again, it's like for core longevity what we then see as these extremes as opposed to like actually blah blah blah blah blah do you know what I mean I know exactly what you mean it's so hard because um what's really difficult why I love the wellness scoop where we have time to have these conversations is that obviously the climate we live in I'd say what five percent less of the population could live a life like that right now with the current landscape you know that we're living through and that's why we're here on the wellness scoop you know it's cost of living. everything's a bit hard, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then you've got these extreme stories in the media of people that are able to do these types of things. And then you've got people that want to dip in a little bit and see if there are things that we could potentially do to help our health. And I think that's what makes it overwhelming, Ella. I think that's why we're here because people read about these things or they see these crunchy people. Now I realize I'm a crunchy person.

She's crunchy. It's unattainable. For some people that haven't heard of Keffitt, that's like what the hell are you giving your children? So, yeah, I think my mind is open to being very philosophical now this morning. I am. Rie, I'll tell you before we close, guys, this is what the internet says, a crunchy mum is. Here's our AI overview. A crunchy mum is a parent who favours natural, holistic and eco-friendly approaches to raising children, often shunning consumer norms. Core characteristics, natural living prefers organic food, zero waste products and avoiding plastics

and synthetic chemicals often leans towards, okay, this is not you, skepticism towards conventional medicine. No, it's definitely not me. It has more of a kind of like attachment parenting style, so like co-sleeping, etc. I'd like to consider myself part crunchy, part not. And I think that's okay. I preferred your original analogy of the fact that we like crunching granola and almonds. I was like, what's the granola one?

A granola mom is a mother who embrace a natural, yeah, holistic, ego-conscious lifestyle in her daily life focuses on sustainability, reducing waste, recycling, often choosing non-plastic household items, favours organic whole or homemade food like actually making homemade granola bras, tends to avoid artificial additives, heavy screen times, inserting conventional consumer chemicals. Oh, that's much better. Do you know, it's so interesting, I feel like I've been read my horoscope. You know, sometimes you're waiting for that month at the year I'm born because I do believe So there are so much in star signs.

So I'm fascinated by this. One last one because why not while we're at it? The one we don't want to be the difference. So I think being like a kind of granola mom, we're kind of probably like semi in and we're quite into an almond mum. You don't want to be an almond mum, an almond mum projects toxic diet culture, extreme food restriction and obsession with thinness onto her child.

The phrase comes from this 2013 clip, have you seen it, from the real housewives of Beverly Hills with Yolanda Hadid and Gigi Hadid and in the video Gigi Hadid who's like a young teenager says to her mum she feels weak because she's only eating half an almond

and Yolanda replies have a couple of almonds then and chew them really well That's the most toxic thing I've ever heard I didn't realise they were on a TV I thought she was a model Hadid She is but her mum was on the real houseways of Beverly Hills

I feel like I would love the real housewives and I've never watched it. I think I'd probably like missing a moment in my life. Probably banned now from time. I mean that that is such an extreme terrible thing to put out there on national TV. Okay, there we go, everybody. With the trends, you can pluck from which trend you prefer.

I'm hoping all of our listeners aren't in our almond category as well. But thank you for tuning in today. We've covered a breadth of different topics in wellness and had very open discussions. And then we're back Thursday, where we take your questions as well. And we are going to be talking about all sorts of things. Is soy milk grill a UPF, the secret to a satisfying afternoon snack?

As always, those are our recommendations. Should we all be taking magnesium? How often should we really be going to the toilet? All sorts of things. The high, the low, as always. We'll see you back here on Thursday. We can't wait. Guys, have a great day.

Have a good week. Bye. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way you can skip an ass. I get it. I'm Siyaya and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned, and today I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem.