The Wellness Scoop - Bikini Bodies, Sugar Cravings and Thriving over Rotting

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

In this week’s episode, we’re taking a closer look at the sneaky side of nutrition—starting with hidden sugar. From yoghurt and oat milk to savoury sauces and baby food, we reveal just how much sugar is lurking in everyday items—and why it's so hard to spot on the label. Weight loss jabs like Ozempic and Mounjaro are still dominating headlines, but behind the hype lies a deeper conversation about self-worth, body image, and how 90s diet culture continues to shape our thinking. We share a powerful reflection from Elizabeth Day on the inner critic, societal pressure, and what true body neutrality looks like in 2025. We also break down the latest ultra-processed food research, including shocking new stats on early death risk. Are UPFs as dangerous as the data suggests—and what can we actually do about it? Plus, the baby food pouch scandal has reignited debate about infant nutrition. We unpack the findings, the marketing spin, and why transparency is urgently needed in this space. Elsewhere, Rhi reveals the surprising truth about plastics in activewear, Ella shares her take on the “bed rotting” trend, and we answer a listener question on the best ways to cook your veg without losing nutrients. Reccomendations: Crash Diets Don’t Work - listen to Rhi's excellent reminder in the ep Weight loss jabs and the struggle for self-acceptance - a fascinating article from Elizabeth Day's Substack Email your MP via the Save The Children website to help protect foreign aid, urgently needed by mothers and newborn children across 12 countries. Live Show Tickets - https://cadoganhall.com/whats-on/the-wellness-scoop-with-ella-mills-and-rhiannon-lambert/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Spring is here and you can now get almost anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? You can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered. Sunshine? No. Some wine? Yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. See app for details. When planning for life's most important moments, sometimes the hardest part is simply

knowing where to start. That's why we're here to help. When you pre-plan and prepay a celebration of life with us, every detail will be handled with simplicity and professionalism, Welcome to the Wellness Scoop. The dignity memorial branding is used to identify a network of licensed funeral cremation and cemetery providers owned and operated by affiliates of Service Corporation International. Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. So that's why we created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal.

And we have so much to talk about today that we're gonna get straight into it. So Rhee, tell our listeners what is coming up. So on today's show, how much sugar are you really eating? Curbing sugar cravings, why crash diets don't work, weight loss jabs versus the struggle for self acceptance, a big topic there, and the recent baby pouch scandal of course, we're delving into that one today. A new trend, bed rotting, the microplastic conversation continues so this time plastic in gym wear. The

best way to cook your veg and can getting active in your midlife protect the brain from Alzheimer's and ultra processed food conversation again linked with early death so we actually have a huge wee colour. We do recovering at all so hopefully you guys can leave with a spring in your step armed with loads of thoughts and ideas ready for the week. First up Rhee how are you? What's going on? Any recommendations? Yeah, no, it's a busy, busy month, Ella. I mean, it's our birthday months and everything seems to ramp up for me in May and June, I think because obviously the summer's ahead

and everyone wants to clamp down on their deliverables. But I'm actually doing a big talk at Parliament next week, which I'm starting to prep for, which is about the lack of, you know, children's nutrition, fresh fruit, vegetables and breakfast on a whole and where we're going wrong in this country. Because actually, in the UK, we've got some of the worst childhood nutrition stats out of the whole of Europe. And that is such a big concern. And on the topic of fruit and veg, since I moved in lockdown to my house, we made it a priority because it was my dream to always be able to plant your own fruit and veg. And we planted ours last week.

So we've done strawberries, courgettes, aubergine, raspberries and beans because my kids call them magic beans. Wow. Yeah. So we planted them. We've got to hope that they come out. And then I'm just rehearsing for my show, which is this week. So I'll be getting more sleep next week.

I'm loving my show because it means I'm off the phone, but you just don't get on your phone when you're rehearsing. You're in a tech run, you're either on stage or you're trying to focus on a dance routine. I did end up going to the wrong side of the stage several times and everyone's like, Rih, you're over here, you're on the wrong side of the stage. I think my mind is just swamped, but I'm loving it.

I love it. I think having said it so many times, I think we all need more hobbies. So it's an amazing inspiration. Also so inspired by your fruit and veg because we are moving to the countryside this summer, which is just such exciting news and we are inheriting the most beautiful vegetable garden. I don't know anything about planting fruit or growing veg but I am now following a hundred different Instagram accounts all about it. If anyone else has any recs please let me know. But yes it's incredibly exciting. We also launched our

plants veggie burgers into Sainsbury's today. Wow. Yeah mega we've been working on that. We've been trying to get them listed for about 18 months. So I'm going to get some summer barbecues. I'm getting the plant burgers. We barbecued them this weekend. It was perfect. And I'm off to Ireland to speak at Whalefest, which apparently is Europe's biggest wellness festival on Friday.

I remember doing it in 2000. I can't remember. I've done it twice, I think. Have you done it before? Yeah, it's really lovely. I loved it in Ireland. Ireland's beautiful. It is.

I know. So I'm really excited. So yeah, lots of fun things going on. I'm really excited to get into your recommendation of fun things going on. I'm really excited to get into your recommendation though. I saw this in the show notes a couple of days ago and I thought this is everything we need to be talking about. You've put in some work you've been doing the Retrition Clinic on why crash diets don't work. And I think before we get into your information, it feels like such a timely reminder. I always think there's

three peaks of wellness each year. January, the kind of new year, new me vibe. May, which is all about bikini body ready essentially and September, which is the back to school moment. But this year in May, have you seen, it's a bit viral on social media right now, which is why to me this felt so timely, people talking about a bikini tax. What? Okay. So it's this premise essentially of the tax as in the work and the money you might put into that work to be bikini body ready. Oh don't, we're not going back there are we? Remember those ads, the big ads that got in

trouble with that protein brand ages ago. It's like that again. And there's some mega voices talking about this and being like, yep, I'm paying my bikini tax so going to the gym or doing X treatment, et cetera. Oh, it's so toxic. Again, it's the shame. It's the constant. Okay. So it is timely then I guess. So timely. And so we've got two new clinicians in the Retrition Clinic and it just kind of spurred me on to thinking we see so much of this all year round,

but particularly at the moment, we've been getting a lot of people coming into the clinic with these particular weight loss concerns and a lot of them are doing crash diets. So I thought, do you know what? I'm going to actually discuss what crash diets does to your body because I don't think people get told that in the depth that they need. And I'll do it as quickly as I can for the podcast. No, give us all the time because I think to your point, I don't think people realize that actually really starving yourself and doing these crash diets has really negative

physiological impacts. So talk us through the whole thing. Okay, so the first thing we would say to you in clinic is about the evolutionarily adaptive process that your body goes through when you suddenly restrict. So your brain basically interprets dieting as a danger, as a big threat. And when your energy intake, so your overall calories suddenly drop and that could be by fasting as well. This is why we don't recommend doing something like intermittent fasting so frequently. And for women anyway, it's very different. But the brain's energy regulator responds basically by lowering your metabolism, so the way that you regulate how much food you intake and increasing your hunger signal. So you will be more hungry, obviously, because your body's trying to protect itself.

It's trying to say, look, you're not giving me enough energy. And this often happens before you even see any real weight loss, because before you lose body fat itself, you often drop extra water from around the muscles, your body's trying to compensate, it's trying to cling on to everything rather than actually let it go and sometimes this is why in clinic well we never go full-on with a huge calorie deficit it doesn't work that way also you've got nowhere left to go. I say this to clients a lot when they hit a plateau of weight loss. If you've been restricting so drastically, we have to increase your energy and food consumption because you can't physically restrict any more than that.

And this is what happens in crash diets is that you go full hog like straight away, I'm going to restrict everything. You've not let your body get anywhere, like it can't do anything and it also disrupts your gut health. So the key thing to remember as well is that the lack of diversity in the food you're intaking, the lack of fiber, the lack of vitamins, minerals, I mean, there's everything that's impacted here, the amount of fat that you're intaking. This all has a knock on effect on your hormones as well,

by the way, because fat and protein are the building blocks of your hormones. But this reduces the beneficial gut bacteria that help you even manage how you store body fat and use energy. So it's kind of teaching your bacteria, which then teaches your immune system on how to deal with your health and your future weight gain or weight loss. So you're setting a kind of precedent for your body. And obviously what we want you to do that we discuss all the time, Ella, don't we? 30 plants, just eat more. That's the thing that we want. And it does create these blood sugar crashes. You know, a lot of them, I mean, what fad diets, name a few, what have you seen?

Juice cleanse. Yeah. Juice cleansers, things like just having smoothies and not having anything else in the day. The maple syrup one that was called the master cleanse. And you drunk, Beyonce famously did it. And I think it's water, maple syrup, cayenne pepper and lemon juice. Probably that's right.

There's definitely maple syrup with water and you drink many, many bowls of that. Many, many cups of that, sorry, not bowls. Can you imagine bowl of maple syrup. Cabbage soup diet. Yeah, all of these. So they're classic examples of the fact that some of these items, especially the maple syrup one, they cause rapid spikes in blood sugars. And it's because your body's suddenly been given energy, it doesn't have to be a really high sugar item either. So you should be really looking at your food and the quality of your diet. And it also disrupts our temperature. I don't think people realise this. So they probably don't realise the impact on your gut health long term that crash diets can have. And your fat cells themselves, I often describe it in a very simplistic way. The science is way more complex than this, but I describe it

in clinic like bubble wrap. When you lose body fat, you want to pop the fat cells, but what you're doing is just inflating them and then they divide and multiply into more because you've restricted your body for so long when you suddenly eat your body's right like I'm gonna cling on to this for dear life because are you gonna do this to me again? There's an evolutionary thing here so losing weight too quickly reduces your brown fat activity. Now again a a bit vague scientifically speaking, but we have different types of fat in our body and that's the type of fat that keeps your body warm. You know, it actually burns calories. It's the type of fat you want and this is

why people feel cold all the time or tired and then hungrier as well when they're on those crash diets. And the hunger signal disruption is just next level. And in fact, what we see in eating disorder cases, so this is an extreme. Most people have probably tried a crash diet, I would actually go as far as saying, especially if you were younger in the 90s era. But what we see in anorexia and severe cases

for my eating disorder clinicians in the clinic is they almost get a euphoric feeling as well when clients are in starvation mode. And that is because it's your body trying to protect you from the severe damage you're doing to your organs and to your bone health and it gives you this euphoric feeling which some clients describe to us. So it's like a self-protective mechanism and that almost instills that awful restrictive behaviour. So it's really, really difficult. Following these rules means you lose the innate ability, which we lose.

It's hard enough already since you grow up, you know, in this society today. Your cues of hunger and fullness are just completely out of whack. I mean, we try and start people off by saying out of 10 before you eat a meal, how hungry are you? Then out of 10 afterwards, how satisfied are you? And that's different to full. Full is I feel full. Most people don't know that feeling.

If you've been crash dieting, you won't be able to tell me how full you feel. But how satisfied, like, do you feel like you wanna keep binging? Do you feel like you need more? How do you feel? Do you feel guilt when you eat? Do you feel really like you enjoyed that meal?

And that's a little overview of why crash diets are complex and why once you start one, it can be very difficult to get off the bandwagon. And also it sounds to me as well, like if you potentially, you do need to or would like to lose a little bit of weight, it's also deeply ineffective because it's not sustainable and instead it's causing huge amounts of disruption and damage. Yeah, by doing a crash diet it's definitely... I'm not shaming anybody that wants to lose weight.

This is what my clinic's for, you know, there is a place for this. And sometimes losing body fat can result in greater health outcomes. But crash dieting is just absolutely not something any health professional would ever recommend for that reason. It's just not... doesn't work. Please share that snippet far and wide, guys, because when you're seeing things about the bikini tags and you're feeling, I've got a holiday coming up, and it's just not, doesn't work. Please share that snippet far and wide guys, because when you're seeing things about the bikini tacks

and you're feeling I've got a holiday coming up, maybe I don't feel as comfortable in my body as I can, just come back to those healthy foundations, eat your 30 plants, really focus on whole foods, on cooking more and on looking after yourself sustainably, please don't do this. There's a lot of, I find it more in the fitness world online that I see a lot of fitness influencers and actually really well known influencers online now put calorie counts on things.

Guys, these are not accurate. And if you dictate your whole life by every number of morsel you eat, we eat food not numbers is a phrase that I love that Giles Yeo uses all the time and it's very toxic. It really is. Okay, I'm going to move from one toxic thing to another. Okay, what's your rec? Okay, yeah, we've got a longer recommendation section because it's a bit more topical and trend-led that we wanted to discuss this week. Okay, so, you know, I'm very into my sub stacks at the moment.

You love it. I know. I can't wait for us to start. We need to get this up. Yes, I'm such a fan of the platform. And like all women of a certain age, I follow and love Elizabeth Day. Just in case you don't know her, maybe you don't live in the UK or something. She has this amazing podcast book, whole sort of franchise essentially now called How to Fail. And it's all about embracing failure.

And she brings a real candid honesty to the way she talks about anything and everything. And she wrote this essay, I think it was at the weekend or a couple of days beforehand on Substack and it felt such a timely and powerful thing for us to talk about given so many of the conversations we've had over the last few weeks, a month for anyone really who came of age in the 90s and noughties, people who battled with body confidence, the question's really, what does the ready availability of drugs like Azempec and Monjaro mean for us? And the piece just tapped into, as I said, so much of what we've been exploring here. The title is literally Weight Loss Jabs and the struggle for self-acceptance.

And she spoke out loud or in writing, I think so much of what many people, and I wonder what some of our listeners potentially might be thinking, but aren't competent enough to say out loud. And essentially she was reflecting back on looking at some photos of himself, and she was actually reflecting on a photo from her wedding. And she admits thinking, looking at this photo, my stomach bothers me here. Like it doesn't look how I would love it to look. And she said equally so just the fact that the numbers on a scale at the moment when she goes for a routine health checkup are bigger than I might want them to be, or perhaps they used to be, or you go into a changing room and you tie on a size

X pair of jeans and they don't fit but they did used to fit. Well that's what so many we find so many people fixate on one number that they weighed the lowest number they've ever seen on the scales it's a number they always want to reach again. Exactly and so she was just really honest and to your point it's a very normal thing to feel and she writes and she kept using the phrase and yet like I know this isn't healthy, and yet. And she says, and yet, I know I should appreciate my healthy functioning body that moves and does amazing things every day. She's very clear. She understands that, you know, a semblance of body neutrality and acceptance is so important,

especially because, you know, she is such an example to other women. She acknowledges all of that, you know, very much acknowledging our worth doesn't come from a thigh gap and yet. And she keeps saying, I know all of this and yet I feel the pressure. And you see all these celebrities visibly shrinking, you see more and more people around you starting to use these jabs. And she admits, I started looking into the jabs online, I want to be honest that the inner critic still resides within me and rears up in moments of weakness or stress and she put Into words. I think this conflict that is so interesting I know we talked last week about the special K. Di and weight watchers and all of that era and she said Basically anyone who grew up in the 90s and early noughties would recognize if you came of age in a decade

Which circled women's cellulite in magazines and called it shame. If you grew up in a society which encouraged us all to scrutinise and judge the thinness of others as if tracking share prices on the stock market are bodily value. If you were taught to value hip bones and supermodel skinniness over almost any other characteristic then this constant exhausting, debilitating internal battle between your higher minded self and your relentlessly persistent inner critic is not of your making. It's quite emotional.

It's really emotional and it was just a very powerful piece and I think it also shows, you know, we talked to, gosh when was it, maybe six weeks ago about the return of Sy Zero and how it really is becoming quite prevalent and it was just interesting, I'm noticing more and more people start to call it out, just wait a second when I looked at celebrity culture now size zero is becoming the norm again and I feel worried about that and I think what's interesting is she's saying I know it's not right but I feel the pressure and a bit like your crush diets she finished the piece on all the reasons that a healthy person like her does not need to use these jabs. These jabs weren't designed for that.

And this is what's so heartbreaking is I see so many success stories with the jabs of people that they are designed for. If you're over a certain weight, they can be so effective. They can instantly like put years onto your life and help you. But for people that are already in a healthy body, it's just not the route

to go down and it's on the black market everywhere. So thank you Elizabeth Day for drawing attention to the fact that it's really hard. It is and I think that we need this collective pushback and acknowledgement that size zero is not what we want. It's really not what we want guys. It's so unhealthy. And please remember everyone's in a different body shape and size. Some people naturally still weigh on their thighs. Some people will have that big bum. Some people don't store anything on their top half and everyone is just different.

Completely. So I thought it was absolutely brilliant. And I think as I said, I think she put into words a lot of what people are talking, thinking about but not saying out loud. Right, let's move on to some more headlines that matter. Ree, what have we got coming up this week? We've got some good pickups actually and I think we should start with the ultra processed food conversation because the headlines were like drastic and this was a BBC headline that they are linked to early death. Like the word death, whenever you see that in a headline, you think, what? Did the BBC just write that? I was a bit taken back.

I honestly thought they'd be a bit more careful with the headline, but The Guardian wrote this as well. So a recent international study published in the American Journal of Preventative Medicine revealed the significant link that we have between UPFs and increased risk of early death. And the research indicates that each 10% increase in ultra-processed food intake basically increases

the risk of dying before age 75 by 3%. And as you said, what we're looking at here is that each 10% increase. And when we think about the fact that one in five people in this country get 80% or so of their calories from ultra-process processed food. The average is sort of 57 to 60%. We're not increasing our risk by 3%. We're increasing it by so much more because the percentage that we're eating is so much more. And in high income

countries like the US and the UK, where we have this extraordinarily high intake of UPFs, they're not on occasion foods anymore. They are now contributing to approximately 13.8% in the UK and 14% in the US of premature deaths, which is staggering really. That's double digit impact on people dying before they should. But this is why it's so staggering and I don't want people to feel fear either, but we cannot over sugarcoat the message. And we have to remember that ultra processed food items are things like packaged breads, cakes, ready meals, things like additives that are added like sweeteners and flavorings.

And individually, these things don't just harm your health. It's a combination of the high fat, the high salt, the high sugar, and these extra items being a constant in your diet. Because by those items being a constant, you're not constantly having the items that improve your health, which is the whole cooked foods. So by getting rid of the whole cooked foods and replacing them with UPF, that's where the problem comes in. And I think that's the nuance that often is missed in these articles is that we're not eating enough of the good stuff and we're eating too much of the ultra processed things. But the study basically analyzed this data from eight countries. So it had the US, England, Brazil and Chile as well there. So

some big ones and it was just undeniable the findings. So we do need a public health measure Ella to address this rising consumption. Some know, some experts think maybe we should be doing the food marketing, we should be targeting there, making sure children aren't being heavily impacted by this, but taxes, Ella, it's already there, it's all there. Some of it is there. I mean, I think it's the world's smallest plaster on the world's largest cut. But we have had, for example, some interventions in the UK on where you can retail, for example, products that they would describe as HFS, as a fat sugar salt. And ultimately, so for example, you can't, and you'll probably notice it now if you go

into like a Saint Louis local or a Tesco Express, you can't have lots of chocolate and sweets, for example, at the tills, they've got to be moved back into the aisles. But what you see in so many supermarkets is then just loads of in-isle events. So you've got big stickers on the floor and loads of all sorts of all singing or dancing things around the shelves. So I think, I'm not saying that's not a positive move, but I think if we look at the data, it's having very minimal impact and it's ultimately just a very, very, very, very small impact. And I would say from where I sit in the food industry, an interesting point is, so for example, into one of the big retailers, we've launched our energy balls as a bar. So they're four or five ingredients. It's literally just almonds,

dates, cacao, salt, and almond butter. So very, very small ingredients list. They've gone in, I think there's 70 products or so in the remit that they sit. This is front of store and they are the only ones with our ultra processed food. The only one. So it's thinking, okay, well we've moved the sugar from the till, but we're just using the flavorings there instead to put it really simply as of again, I think, it's not that effective because you can still buy all the stuff two metres away and then it's all more singing or dancing there. But B, you're really fundamentally just swapping sugar and salt for ultra processed

ingredients which is just isn't it just moving the problem from one thing to another? It's not even just the supermarket. If you check out Bite Back, which is a good campaign, they're on socials, literally Bite, B-I-T-E, back. They look at the impact of advertising, like on TV, things that are targeted towards children. Even educational products in schools have cartoon characters or certain associations with foods. So it creeps into places that, you know,

subliminal marketing for unhealthy items is everywhere and it's why I've wrote my new book because I always told myself as a nutritionist I wouldn't write an opportunity to do it but I wouldn't write a book unless I genuinely felt it would become an education resource. I didn't just want it to be jumping on a bandwagon. I was really hesitant to do an ultra processed food per calorie. I was really hesitant and I had this discussion last summer while I was Ella. I was really hesitant. And I had this discussion last summer while I was working on the encyclopedia, the Plant-Based One,

The Science of Plant-Based Nutrition. And I said to Izzy, my editor, I said, look, I don't think this conversation is going to be just a fad because this is the whole food industry in the UK we're talking about and consumers have no education, no guidance, no training at all. So that's why the first half of the book is like an encyclopedia explaining

what on earth is an additive? What is it? What does the science say? Yes, it may not be harmful, but in combination of other factors in overconsumption, it's just not good. Anyway, going off on one, but that's why I wrote the unprocessed play.

Yeah, I would also say you operate with more integrity in this industry than anyone I've ever met. One more thing on that that I think is really interesting as well is that it feels that we're so slow moving and bringing in any interventions. So for example, the interventions as well as this moving the HFS products away from the till is banning some ads, for example, in the kind of watershed 9pm. Great. People don't really watch terrestrial TV anymore. And it's just like, we're moving so slowly to make any impacts. That's not where people watch TV. They watch online. It's YouTube. It's the streamers. It's meta platforms. It's TikTok. It's Snapchat. And we're not going to be regulated there. Ultimately, I think we all know that those

platforms are largely impossible to regulate if we've seen anything so far. And guys, we're not shaming anyone that consumes a lot of ultra processed foods. You know, I said to the guys this morning, sometimes that literally is all there is. But it's just having the education which will make you be able to live with yourself or know what you're doing, know how you live your life and make your decisions. Because without that education, how can you possibly know? But should we shame collective, successive,

international collections of governments for failing to intervene? Because I think we probably should. 100%, Ella. Right. Right, OK. We move on. This is a great segue.

Right. As I said, re-operates with more integrity than anyone I know. She's just there writing for the Times and writing for Parliament and being so discreet about it all. But she wrote a piece in the Times this week titled, How Much Sugar Are You Really Eating? And I asked her if she could bring this segment to the show because I thought it was A, brilliant, but B, to your point of in terms of when we think about what we're eating and you're saying people don't really realise they're eating additives or they don't really realise they're

eating so much sugar and I think this trying to create that self awareness is so important. So will you talk us through this conversation? So I wrote this piece with a bit of hesitancy again, because I just thought, look, sugar is controversial, we don't want to upset people, I don't want to be shaming anybody again, but we can't deny the fact that the government initiatives and there's a new one, it feels like every few years I'm having to scratch up on I'm having to learn about it's just not worked and there's a lot of awareness around it but sugar consumption in the UK is still really high Ella and the UK government's actually expanded the sugar

tax to include you know pre-packaged milkshakes and coffees people often don't realize which have high sugar content because when you get these pre-packaged cans of coffees, people often don't realize, which have high sugar content. Because when you get these prepackaged cans of coffees, they often have flavors and a lot of sugar and different. And I think I saw like a lavender, it looked delicious, a lavender match from Starbucks the other day as well, by the way. And all these things are just syrups, you've got to remember that.

And yes, naturally occurring sugars in fruits, and if you drink cow's milk or, you know, buying bread, that's not problematic. It's the free sugars which again is a word that came into fruition in the last 10 years we never used to call them free sugars and what we mean by free is that you've maybe blended the item or you've broken it down so the sugars are now outside of their original form and we've got high rates of obesity, tooth decay in children under five Ella has never been so high.

Yeah and just a note on this, tooth decay is the leading cause of hospital admissions for children aged between five and nine in England. I mean that it makes me really sad because you cannot bear to think of a child going through that but also children with risks of type 2 diabetes, Ella obviously with adults this number has skyrocketed, hypertension, liver disease and some cancers are also linked to this so most adults massively exceed the recommended 30 grams of free sugars a day and children also surpass this. So I didn't shy away from the article in the end because I thought what can I do that's

helpful and I think I just wanted to give consumers, I mean, the readers who read the Times, an example of things they probably have every day and it adds up. So whilst it's not harmful to have a fruit flavored yogurt, if you're having that every single day, I mean, they have the same amount of sugar as a dessert, Ella.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna note on this is that it's quite a lot of added sugar to get to 30 grams and yet most people actually are consuming nearly double that on average. Because you've got to remember that this free sugar intake is something that we're recommending to keep low anyway but because we've got a huge increase of ultra-processed food items in our diet nearly everything you buy will have some degree or level of sugar within it. So cereals, even those labeled whole grain and natural guys, natural is such a dubious claim on a packet, I mean, Ella's just nodding ferociously.

Natural, honestly, is nothing has annoyed us more over the last decade of the things I've picked up that claim to be natural. And then you read the ingredients and you're like, yeah, what is that? I know, I know. It's not natural. We could go back to the Chloe, the popcorn last week saying words you can pronounce. Fruit juices are a big culprit though, I have to say. And I'm actually all for fruit juice, but I'm for an 150ml portion, not what most people

consume, which is pretty much double. Most individual bottles of fruit juice on shop shelves are 330ml, which is already double the intake of sugar you should be getting from a fruit juice. And most children guys don't need fruit juice. They're better off eating a piece of fruit. Different plant milks can contain a lot of added sugars, ketchup, pasta sauces, cakes and biscuits. And like I said, I'm a fan of plant milks. I think they're fantastic. But you've got to look at the label for things. And I think it's obvious cakes and biscuits, but ketchup and pasta sauces is still an issue.

And we had a big piece about this like, was it eight, nine years ago? It was the brand, the famous Italian one, you know, with the little puppet guy. It's all over the TV. Well, they used to have those ads. They look like the Muppets and they were in the press everywhere. I remember writing about it back then for exceeding something crazy, like a Kit Kat bar amount of sugar in their pasta sauce jar. Yes, I remember. Do you remember? The Muppet people. But anyway, just have a look at your products. And if you've got a

pasta sauce that day, reduce your sugar and other areas of your diet and enjoy that pasta sauce. Exactly. And I think that's the point, isn't it? It's just about trying to illustrate this point, not to do it perfectly every day, not to get really het up about it, but just to really make sure that we're getting the balance of these items, which can be delicious, which can be great to include, but they are very much in amongst having a bowl of your batch-made quinoa we discussed last week with some hummus and some broccoli, or stir-fry, or whatever it is you like to cook. But it's just trying to get that balance. And I think this whole challenge is, as we said, the average is 57 to 60% of calories from ultra processed foods. And ultimately, those aren't having the fiber and the healthy fats and the nutritious

proteins, generally speaking, and it's much more these array of hidden sugars, etc. And ultimately, that means it's so easy to eat so much of it. Whereas actually, if you're cooking at home a lot, and enjoying a snack and a oat milk something, getting over 30 grams, you're going to have a really nice amount of delicious treats in your life to do that. A hundred percent. And I think one of the things that I'm often asked about is, you know, managing sugar cravings or what cravings even mean. I wrote that in the sheet. Yeah. She said, I want to ask, read this. And I was like, it's a really good point because I have a whole page in the book that's called

Is Ultra Processed Food Addictive? And I explain the reward cycle in the brain. Now it's not the same as an addiction you'd get with alcohol or smoking, but it does trigger reward centers. And what happens is when you have an influx of sugar frequently, your brain gets used to that amount of dopamine it releases and then it needs even more to get a hit. So why people feel constantly they're craving something is because their pathway has raised

up a level. You need even more to get the same hit of something, which is similar in a way to addicts, I guess. It's just different pathways in the brain. But also our taste buds change. We need more sugar to get the same result. A lot of it is emotional I will say, there's a big psychological component with foods that we feel give us that feel-good factor. A lot of us just eat to curb an emotion, we don't eat because we're hungry like I said at the beginning of the

episode. We eat out of pleasure and we eat out of joy but we also eat to cope. And that's something that I think a lot of us could probably recognize if we want to delve deep. Oh, I 100% do. And it's always chocolate for me. Yeah, me too. It would absolutely, me it's always chocolate. And I'm always thinking, what is that sweet thing after dinner? Because it's just something that gives me that nice, and sometimes some grapes are just not going to cut it. No, but also there's nothing wrong with having a bit of chocolate after dinner.

You're well within your 30 grams of free sugars doing that. I'm excited to quickly share with you all that you can pre-order my new book, The Unprocessed Plate Now, and Ella and I discuss this all the time that the world of food and nutrition is currently full of conversations surrounding ultra processed foods and this is for good reason and in my book The Unprocessed Plate I dive into what UPFs actually are, explore the latest evidence on how they impact our health and most importantly how we can reduce our reliance on them without overhauling our entire lives and remember there's a lot of nuanced guides, there's a privileged conversation, lots of things here.

But I want to cut through the noise and offer actual practical solutions. There's incredible diagrams to make the science more accessible. And there's 60 amazing recipes, family-friendly, everything from breakfast, weekday dinners, quick lunches, simple swaps and snacks, and things you can have on the go that makes such a difference.

And trust me, whether you're a busy parent or you're just trying to reduce these in your diet on your everyday workload, this book is here to support and empower you to get back to basics with food without the pressure of this perfectionism. So if you want to feel more informed and inspired in the kitchen, then you can pre-order your copy of the unprocessed plate now. It's out June 19th. and back to me and Ella. I have to say our episode today is very nutrition heavy actually. It's my fault because I drafted out a few of these headlines but the next one Ella is about the baby food pouches lacking nutrition.

It was everywhere after that panorama episode we discussed. It was absolutely everywhere and let's just start by saying, because I think there's some confusion, I have nothing to do with Ella's Kitchen, the baby food brand. We share a name, obviously, Ella, that's great. Nothing, no association, none whatsoever. My in-laws came over on bank holiday Monday

and they're like, oh, I saw, Ella's pouches were everywhere in the paper, are they bad? I was like, that's not Ella's pouch. It has nothing to do with Ella, but everyone thinks it is. Every now and again, we get complaints. Do you? Yeah, like something, and it comes to us. I'm so sorry.

Yeah, as we've grown, the association has been less, but yes, not me. Nothing to do with me. Nothing to do with deliciously other. Oh my gosh, you poor thing. What an association. And I, full disclosure, in 2020 started working with one of these top brands and I was so excited, Ella, because

we were at the time the only baby food brand in the country to do the first ever recyclable pouch. I put fortification of calcium into their dairy-free pouches. No one else had this on the market and I was really proud of those achievements that we made. And then I made multigrain packs that were available for parents. And then we had some amazing pulses and chickpea blends and things. But the sad thing is that the products I was working on just don't sell. And we parted ways nearly two to three years ago now because they wanted to cut their veggie range and just focus on the fruit. And then all these headlines come out about inaccurate testing and claims and I was horrified, absolutely horrified. So the recent investigation by BBC Panorama raised

the concerns about nutritional adequacy of baby food pouches. So this is from leading brands such as Ella's Kitchen, Heinz, Piccolo, Little Freddy, Aldi and Lidl. Basically everything and the laboratory tests. So I don't know what they were doing testing their own products. That's what's so deceptive. For me as a nutritionist, if I work with a brand they say we've taken our products to the lab. I take that as gospel. Like you see the laboratory report, you're like, oh great, this is the nutritional analysis. So for them to get it wrong is A, very deceptive, but they were deficient in nutrients like vitamin C and iron. Now I'm not surprised about the iron bit, I'm

going to part that for a second, but vitamin C in a fruit pouch, because of the way the pouch is processed, it means in the manufacturing process with the heat and everything that you need, you do lose a degree of nutrition. But what was so sad Ella is the sugar. Can I add on to that? Yeah. It's because, and that's not the case with everything that you buy. It very much depends where in store you're buying it, etc. But with something like this, they tend to go through pasteurization, so a heating process, because obviously what you're doing here is you're putting something that fundamentally is a fresh product.

Think mango or think chicken. These aren't products that you would keep at room temperature, so ambient for a year. So what you have to do to make it work and not be kept in the fridge and have a kind of 12, 18 month shelf life is you have to heat it, heat it, heat it, heat it, heat it, and that's the pasteurization. Now obviously we talked about this the other day, take milk, pasteurization, loads of benefits, get rid of harmful bacteria. But here the problem is, is it degrades the nutritional benefits? And it's great for people to have access to food when there isn't any around,

convenience. Remember, these are convenience items. They're not meant to replace the whole food. But the deception comes with the marketing and the lack of education for parents. And it's no parent's fault. You know, I use some of these pouches and it's totally fine to have every now and again. But the problem is when they're saying the pack contains X amount of vitamin C and it doesn't, that is a problem because you're taking all the microbes and the fruit naturally out by the heating process and a banana puree pouch does not replace a banana. Exactly. So also when you look at vitamin C, for example, the degradation that happens during manufacturing, it's so significant. So you've got a pouch of pure mango, for example,

from a leading brand and that's only got 0.1 milligram of vitamin C versus the same amount of fresh mango where you'd be getting 18.2 milligrams. So just day and night different. And I think that's the interesting thing. And I've seen some opinion pieces saying, this is just another stick to beat mothers with. This is just another way to make mothers feel guilty. And it's a really, really difficult one because as we often talk about, none of this and none of the conversations we have on the wellness scoop, be that ultra processed food, be that baby pouches, be that not necessarily always being able to make healthy choices. This is rarely the fault of the individual. This isn't about shame

or guilt on an individual level. But the problem is, is that our health and wellness landscape is now, and our food landscape as a whole is now so warped and so desperately in need of change that we have to call out the facts in order to give the education for us to collectively change it. And so I think the difficult thing here is saying like, I think it's right that we talk about the facts and about the reality of the fact that these products aren't really what they say they are. But that's not said to make anybody feel bad. No, this is exactly it. And I'm actually at the stance,

because I've worked with these companies. I was so excited, Ella, to make a difference. I genuinely thought I could contribute to this space in a positive shape or form, because I relied a lot on pouches at certain points, and lots of parents do, so they can be great. But you have to be aware. And what I don't like is deception. I don't like inaccurate testing. As a scientist, it just kills

me. I'm like, how can you say that to a consumer? Some of the marketing as well. One thing we never did was put a below six month age marketing thing on the product because you shouldn't be weaning before technically six months. Some babies are ready a bit early, but some of the products were advertised at four months. So it's almost enticing parents to say, Oh, look, buy my fruit pouches. And there is a difference between a fruit pouch and a veggie pouch. And then from seven months, roughly a baby won't be getting as much iron from their mother's milk anymore anyway, or the formula because the milk levels drop as they introduce solids and you really need it in the diet. And some of the packs, the iron, I'm really proud the one I worked with was the highest record recorded

because we used quality ingredients. But some of the quality, and I can say firsthand, working in this industry back in 2020, I was shocked. The meals that claim their meals like spaghetti bolognese or something had like zero beef in them and there was no protein or iron and they're just not proper meals yet they're marketed as meals. So yeah there was a study by the University of Leeds School of Food Science and Nutrition and they analyzed 632 of these products being marketed to children under three and this one really got me they found that 21% of the products being marketed to children under three. And this one really got me. They found that 21% of the products were actually too watery to provide sufficient nutrition. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me.

And what's interesting is when you make a pouch that actually contains nutrients, and one of the things we were struggling with at the time was that it's so thick because you're actually putting real food into the pouch. So to squeeze it out, it doesn't have the consistency that babies get used to. But this is the same in adults because when you add, you know, a ultra processed wafer biscuit that melts in the mouth, you eat more of it, which is why when you're a baby and you've got these really palatable, no texture and easy to digest sweet hit on the tongue, you're going to want more. But I have a balanced voice note from Charlotte

Sterling-Reed and she is a wonderful child nutritionist and she sent me a voice note on this subject and I think she'll give a really good balanced answer. Absolutely, she's been doing so much press speaking to this conversation over the last couple of weeks with such a great voice to add to the conversation here. I know a lot of parents have been a bit worried about the BBC Panorama investigation and actually I was really thrilled to be in that investigation. It was really thorough and well done. What they did was they looked at lots of brands of baby pouches on the market and they had a look and assessed them for their nutritional composition. Some of the results of that was actually quite shocking showing that there were some for example mango pouches with

almost no vitamin C in it which is actually quite a surprise. So this really is one of the things that the program highlighted quite a lot as well as the use of babies sucking directly out of the spouts which means that they're not able to see and explore and experiment with food which is what we want them to be doing when they are learning how to eat. So luckily the Panorama investigation has actually started to already have a little bit of change happening with some of these brands already. Many of them have said that they're going to change their packaging from four to six months now, so they'll be starting to roll that out very soon, which is excellent. I do want parents not to worry though. I want parents to know that actually it's absolutely fine if they offer these pouches on occasion to their little ones.

It's not going to be problematic if every now and then as an emergency or that mum or dad throw it into the bag when they head out for the day as a just in case option, or they get home at the end of the day and they've got no food in and think, thank goodness I've got a pouch. That is exactly how you should use them, as a convenient every now and then option.

The problem only comes when parents are using them as a convenient every now and then option. The problem only comes when parents are using them as really regular meal options for little ones, but if you're using them alongside a well balanced diet and babies exploring lots of variety, lots of texture and importantly lots of your home cooked meals, aside from that it's absolutely not a problem at all. So don't be scared of using them, just maybe try and use them a little bit more wisely. And as I said, they really cannot replace those home cooked meals. It makes such a difference if babies are given home cooked meals that your family have and exposed to all the tastes and flavours in the cooking that you do at

home. I know it's not always easy, so these pouches can be a reliance every now and then, but ideally, that's the best way to help babies learn to love and enjoy our foods. So as Charlotte said this isn't about shame at all it literally is that parents need support we're all in this together come on I mean the government needs to reduce the cost and the food and there's so many factors so basically we just feel for you we're all in this together. But I do think that being aware of things is better, but fear mongering is never really okay. And I don't think that's what this initial documentary was about, because it is okay to have them every now and again.

But that moves us on Ella to a different headline completely. And that is moving more in midlife could help protect your brain from Alzheimer's. Yes, I think this was just one more example about all the positive small things we can do every day to be supporting ourselves. And this was a new study from the Barcelona Institute for Global Health, and it found that getting more active between the ages of 45 and 65 could actually help protect your brain from Alzheimer's later on. I love that. Researchers followed 337 people with a family history of Alzheimer's for four years. I mean, gosh, so tough. And what they found was those who hit the World Health Organization's recommended activity levels. So just so you know, that's 150 to 300 minutes of moderate exercise a week, or 75 to 150 minutes of something more intense. They had healthier brains

because they had less of the buildup of beta amyloid, and that's the protein that's really well researched now that we know in science is linked to Alzheimer's. And they had thicker brain regions linked to memory and cognitive function. And even better, the biggest brain benefits were seen in people who went from doing almost no exercise to becoming more active.

And I think that's such a nice example, like it's never too late to start, it's never too late to try something new, it's not about being perfect, 75 minutes to 150 minutes or something more intense is actually maybe two gym sessions a week, it's not an impossible number to hit. Or as we talked about, walk every day.

So go a walk every day or you can have a 20 minute dance party. Yeah, exactly. 100%. So they did point out that after a certain level, there weren't really any more benefits. So that kind of leveled off. So it's basically just a reminder that if we move a bit more this summer, we're also helping our brains. But also, isn't it nice to know that and we've seen this with lots of things before,

you don't need to be doing it all day, every day. Like the benefits aren't exponential. There is a moment of which you've made a massive benefit. And obviously, if you love exercising, it makes you feel great, go for it. But I think it's nice. It takes the pressure off, doesn't it? You don't need to do a 60 minute spin class six days a week. No, absolutely. In fact, I'm not going to do my usual gym workouts because my trainer's away for two weeks and I've got my live show. So I thought, you know what, I'm moving nearly every evening at the moment. I don't need it this week, but I know I'm very active. So everyday stuff, get in the garden more, walk to school, pick up, drop off, whatever you possibly can.

drop off, whatever you possibly can. Let's move on to our trends. So in our trends section, quick update on our cloud, Chloe Kardashian pop gone from last week, because I saw a piece in the New York Times about actually about the launch, but it was talking about, and I haven't heard this phrase before, the proteinification of foods. Wow. Proteinification, quite hard word to say. What was that song?

Stop eating protein now. And they included this trend report, which I just thought was worth noting. And it showed, I wonder what our listeners, how our listeners fit into this, but 61% of consumers were hoping to increase their protein intake in 2024. And that's up from just 48% of people in 2019. So this whole protein movement is really kind of making ground. And there was a really good quote in there from a professor at Drexel University

who was looking at trends. And they said, from a marketing perspective, there are only three macronutrients that the food industry can target in new product lines, fat, carbs and protein. They're not going to have fat popcorn, they're not going to have extra carb popcorn. So that leaves one macronutrient, right? And it's kind of so simple and basic, what he says, but I just thought it was really funny. But this is what I mean. We've done all the rest. We've done low fat, we've done low carb,

let's go high proteins. You can't go low protein. So let's go high. It's just absurd And as we said always say that there's nothing wrong with protein like, you know, you do want to be having protein So looking for it in your meals is good. It's just a lot of listener questions Ella on us reading the Spotify So thank you everybody for your comments and questions a lot of people saying but you do need protein, right? And I think we are caveatting. We know proteins important. We're not demonizing protein, you know, lean protein sources and animal produce and plants, you know, these are really important to have in our diet. We're just saying we're not a fan of the marketing hype, the all the books that are being released, the products, the chocolate bars of protein, you know, we feel it's almost

got a health halo that if it's high protein, it's good for you. Yeah, that's my concern on it. Protein is really important and you want to be getting it in every single meal and you want to, you know, including it in your snacks. It's all part of a healthy diet, 100%. But my problem is that we're having protein chocolate bars to the point where we're making something that's inherently not very healthy seem healthy because of it. Or we feel that we must get 35, 40, 60, 70 grams of protein in any singular meal. And actually, again, that's just way more than you need. And it adds pressure and it adds stress.

And money. And money. Very, very, very right. So our next trend, Ella, I saw it a week ago and I hate the fact I'm drawing attention to this website, but I saw it pop up in the headlines because it links back to goop, Ella. Goop, I want to put my head in my hands now. I don't think she's a fan of goop, guys. I'm not a fan of goop. It's Gwyneth Paltrow's online pseudoscientific site is what we call it in my industry. But it's interesting and I have say, sometimes I like trying trends. I really do.

I'm all down with some interesting things. But what was the thing she had years ago about the egg? Jade eggs. Yeah, you know, all of that kind of thing. Things that were actually quite dangerous, she's also promoted. But she does raise attention to some things. And actually, I'm glad she drew attention to this

because I didn't know. And this was plastic and gym wear, Ella. Yeah, the title was, Do your workout clothes contain endocrine disrupting microplastics? And I thought, I don't know anything about this. Maybe they do. So I read it. And it highlights the concern about synthetic active wear, shedding microplastics that may carry harmful chemicals like BPA, phthalites and pesticides.

And these microplastics can enter the body through sweat glands, hair follicles and skin wounds and potentially obviously disrupting hormone systems and impacting reproductive metabolic health. So it's quite a drastic statement. And I'm sure if you delve into the science that we don't need to be totally scared. But if you're wearing these types of tight fitting leggings

which I do quite a lot nearly every single day and sports bras maybe now finally we can look towards things that are better for the planet and Start telling the whole industry that creates athleisure where Let's do a bit definitely. I mean, we obviously did our extra scoop episode Didn't we a little while ago on fertility and looking at the impact of our lifestyle and for example the endocrine disruptors and microplastics and the kind of very real research that actually these things are now collectively in amongst our diet and pollution and all these other risk factors having a impact on fertility and hormonal health. And so I think it is interesting because

you just wouldn't even consider, I certainly wouldn't even think that. When I think microplastic, I think about water bottles. I definitely don't think leggings. I know, I mean, I will raise attention that this article doesn't give any data. So the studies on it and all the sorts of things that we obviously need, and I don't want to fear manga,

but if you like me are trying to de-clutter your house from these very high chemical sprays we're using and go for a more, I'm gonna use the word natural, but a more natural, even though it's not, alternative, and go for the underwear, like me and Ella are trying to stripe and stare at the moment, things that don't contain a lot of these man-made synthetic fibers,

perhaps this is a good time to have a look at what's in your active world. Yeah, I think it's that whole point, isn't it? As per this episode we did on fertility and all of the kind of myriad of different things that are impacting our health. It's a little bit like how we talk about UPFs. It's like if you're the core of your diet,

it's fresh natural food and then you enjoy a Mars bar, there's no problem in there. But our diet, our lifestyle is now often quite filled with exposure to microplastics, pollution if you live in a busy area, high stress environments and when you start putting it all together that can have quite a negative impact on our health. I'm not going to stop wearing my favourite leggings though, even though I've read that because they were expensive and I do really like them but I'm just not going to wear them as often.

Ella, I think that's my solution. OK, trend two is Frank. There's no other word for it. Go on, you say it. Bed rotting. I know. And it's because TJ Power, when we had our extra scoop with him on phones, he brought it up and then I looked into it and it's on TikTok. And it means you spend extended periods, often entire days, lying in bed, engaging in passive activities like binge watching shows,

scrolling through social media or simply resting. God, I can't remember when I spent a whole day in bed. Can you? Unless I had flu or something, I don't know. Yeah, it was initially embraced as a form of self care, which when you think about taking, you know, if you can, you've had a busy week at work, you take a Sunday, you spend half the day kind of on the sofa in your bed, really cosy, have some lovely snacks, you maybe do a face

mask, have a bath, watch a movie you love. That sounds like peak self-care and lovely and so great. Such an amazing reset, great for your nervous system. But I think this is kind of going more towards entire days binge watching shows and scrolling social media. Which isn't good. Yeah. And so but the trend has gone over 300 million views so far on TikTok. So it really is quite a trend. 300 million. I can't even process that number.

And if you haven't listened to the Extra Scoop with TJ yet, he's talking about essentially our addiction to our phones and the danger and the impact on our mental health. And I would say it's one of the most life changing 30 minutes I've had in the last year. So 10 out of 10 recommend. But he was talking about this trend. It's what it's really said, it's where it came from in terms of our excessive social media consumption. And he's working with teenagers who are having screen time of 17 or 18 hours a day. I know it makes me really sad actually. And I saw Hugh Grant actually pop up on my phone. Maybe it's because I was looking at this Hugh Grant because he's got like five kids I didn't know.

He's campaigning or speaking out vocally you know using his platform to say he doesn't think that all this technology in schools is a good idea. Like he said my kids the other day obviously they probably all go to private school and that's fine but they all came home with these iPads and he's like is this really necessary? Like why are we putting another level of technology onto our children? But then you've got the argument of how will they survive in a modern world? But surely there's a middle ground. Yeah and surprise surprise health experts caution against excessive bed rotting. Did you need us to tell you that? Probably not. But it can.

And again, not to keep laboring the point, but please listen to TJ because I think he really illustrated the fact that actually scrolling for hours a day really is proven to exacerbate symptoms of poor mental health, of depression, anxiety, disrupt sleep patterns. It hurts my head, Ella. Yeah. They also, some of the experts weighing in or talking about listening to and saying it leads to physical issues like muscle weakness. I'm not moving I shouldn't laugh it's not funny muscle weakness but it's the idea that this is even a thing. What's scary

is how young it starts like perhaps this is a trend that's targeting 16 year olds which is absolutely awful because they should be outside getting fresh air. Anyway, quite a trend there. Let's not do that one. I think I'm going to give that zero out of 10. Our birthday where my plan is, I've asked my husband already, can I just lie in bed for like the morning? That's not, but that's, that feels like peak self care, doesn't it? Yeah, that's my present to myself. A bath in the morning. Have a bath, do a face mask, watch your favorite movie.

I'm getting older. While you have like a nice breakfast in bed. Have a bath, do a face mask, watch your favorite movie. I'm getting old Ella. While you have like a nice breakfast in bed. That sounds like heaven on earth. I think the idea of not getting up and scrolling TikTok for 17 hours is the rotting. Yeah, I don't want to do that. I think you're thriving not rotting. Thanks. Yeah, I think you're thriving not rotting. Okay, so our listener question of the week, Ella, was actually a really good one that we got. And it's about the vegetable confusion of how you cook them. Because if we don't have enough to worry about, people are now telling us how we should and shouldn't cook our vegetables.

The question was, when we steam or saute vegetables, do they lose their nutrients and are they better raw? Do you remember there was a big raw food movement? Oh, yeah. I don't know exactly when it was, but I don't think it was long after kind of wellness was taking off. So let's say like 2016, 2017. It was definitely 2016, 2017. It was called a macrobaric diet or something, raw macro and people releasing books.

Yeah, and I think the macrobaric diet wasn't so much the raw food that was actually very gwenith and goo, but we had raw vegan and there was some quite prolific people. Freelee the Banana Girl, I think was one of them. And they had massive following. Huge, I think often YouTube channels, but huge social followings. And they were doing things like, they were called macro meals. That's it. It was something I can't quite remember. Mono meals. Mono meals.

That was it. Yes, mono meals. I was never done with it. And they would have like 10 bananas for the meal or a box of 20 dates. Yes, I saw the dates. Yeah, or like three melons or something. And that was the meal. But they would do that throughout the whole day. So breakfast would be like 10 bananas and 15 dates. Snack was two watermelons. I'm not joking lunch was like a sack of potatoes.

It's not funny. No, because it is disordered eating. A sack of potatoes. It's disordered eating that's just like plain there for everybody to see disguised under the name of a mono raw thing. Well that's it. It's like it's a really disordered eating pattern disguised as healthy eating and it's healthy eating because you're eating loads of fresh fruit and veg and like that's 100% true but you don't need

to eat ten bananas to get the benefit. Well where's the protein and the fat and the carb? Well you've got the fructose and carb and the fat. You're probably getting the carb if you're having that many bananas. Sack of potatoes as well, yeah. But not quite enough of the right, you know, mix. Anyway, how do you like your veg? What do you do? So the answer to the best way to maintain nutrients is not to do mono meals.

Just as a clarifying case, anyone thought we were advocating for that? I like them, however they taste best. I love that answer. And I don't mean that in a reductive or flippant way. I mean that in the sense of ultimately, I always come back to the fact that according to the research, 99% of people in this country know they should eat there five a day. That feels right. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me.

And yet, roughly a quarter of us also just over a quarter are managing it. So there's this humongous gulf. Now, time is an issue, our food landscape is an issue, price is an issue, accessibility is an issue. These are all issues. But I think so is the fact that steamed broccoli on its own, when overcooked and slightly mushy, probably for most of us is not that delish. And I do think it's ultimately, whatever you can do that makes you excited to eat it and that makes you think, oh, for dinner tonight, I would love to saute some shallots and some garlic and I'm going to add loads of like blistered

cherry tomatoes in that and then I'm going to simmer it down with some shallots and some garlic. And I'm gonna add loads of like blister cherry tomatoes in that and then I'm gonna simmer it down with some coconut milk and butter beans. Make me hungry. Right, like that starts this and I'm gonna layer it up on some like crunchy sourdough and I'm gonna have some salad on the side, whatever it is. I'm like, oh yum, I want those butter beans

and that shallot and that garlic and those tomatoes. Cause that sounds like juicy and yummy. Whereas if you said to me like, oh, you can have a mono meal, but you can have an a plate of steamed greens with no dressing and they'll be mindfully overcooked. Or you can have a very soggy kind of rabbit-y green salad. To me, I just I love food and you talked earlier about the worst thing about crushed diets is it's so unsatisfying. You need to think about you satisfied. You got to be satisfied by your veg. I agree. And I do respect your question though, equally to the sense that it is really confusing.

And when I was writing the science of plant based nutrition book, I had to do a whole section on cooking methods Ella, because one of the most commonly asked questions I had was, you know, what does happen to food when you air fry it or when you roast it? I think it comes from old conversations. I feel like growing up there was always this sense of steaming was the best. Well, technically it is the best because it does preserve the most nutrients with the minimal amount of heat, retains more phytochemicals, which is why for babies a lot of people say steam the veg, they make a puree because you're actually getting maximum nutrition into a very small portion. But I say it's as an adult, it's so negligible compared to like Ella said,

get the veg in. I mean, I love roasted veg and it's probably, well, it's not as good as stir frying even because it's probably in there for a longer summer. But we have to remember as well that how you cook the veg and what you eat it with also aids nutrient absorption. Like you need the olive oil with your orange veg to even get the vitamin A out of the vegetable into your body. So there's so much I could say.

And the most nutrient rich way of cooking veg is steaming, air frying, then probably stir frying. But, you know, I had advice in the book, like, you know, if you're going to boil veg, try and keep the water afterwards, use it in some way. But in reality, no one does that. We're all busy people. We just boil the peas and then sieve them out. So I wouldn't worry. I don't worry about it. As long as I'm eating the

veg, I'm very, very happy. And you're not going to be deficient in those nutrients because of the way you cook the veg, I don't think. Yeah, I think that's nice to know that while steaming is to a point gold standard, if you're going to saute it or roast it, unless you're kind of absolutely like charring it to oblivion, you're the difference is negligible versus actually getting it in and continuing to get it in on a regular basis because you've enjoyed it. 100%. I have to ask you about air frying. Yes, air frying. And so air frying is really popular right now. And do you know, I had an air fryer at university

before it was popular. You're a transessor. I know, I know. Well, actually my dad bought it for me because I was in a shared kitchen halls. Everything was always filthy and I was really struggling. So I got an air fryer and just started, I didn't know it was good for me.

I just had it because it was quick. It cooks things in like half the time, a lot of the times. But no, it's better. It reduces the amount of fat people add on because obviously people do add too much. And it just cooks the veg really rapidly and gently, which does minimise the amount of nutrition loss compared to traditional frying in a pan, which often ends up with people scolding their food because of the heat and watching it in time. So yeah, air frying. I'm all a fan if you've got one.

Love that. And you have also got on here, avoid boiling. Well, actually boiling, you know, I'm not anti-boiling things, but it does cause a lot of water-soluble vitamins to leach out of your food, which is the ones you'd expect to keep. But if you're going to do it, just keep the skins on. Like when you're boiling potatoes, just keep the skin on. It does preserve a little bit more and a lot of nutrients are closer to the skin and just don't overcook it and try not to boil it for too long. But you know, any way you can get it in Ella is my philosophy here.

I love that. Okay, and you've got a great shout out to end the show on today as well. I just have a little shout out because I do what I can on this subject. So Save the Children reached out to me with some new stats. I supported them on a campaign last year. And it is a stat that you can write to your local MP about and over 2.4 million children will lose access to essential health services in the next 12 months which is staggeringly awful. And 106,000 more births will occur

without medical professionals present. So basically that's one every five minutes. With over 540 women needing caesarean sections that could be denied this life-saving intervention next month alone. So these are really, really big stats and it's because of recent aid cuts in the US which are causing havoc in maternal and newborn healthcare programs across 12 countries.

I know this is pretty huge. So they've reached out the charity just saying can you email your MP through the link on Save the Children's website because there is power in a voice and as somebody who's had two children and Ella herself as well it's just unimaginable. So it's my little shout out but if you could do that that would be fantastic but we can talk more things, you know, food and life and everything on the live show, which is coming up in a matter of weeks, Ella. A matter of weeks. We cannot wait to see the tickets are almost all gone, but there are a couple left if you want to join us.

Again, link will be in the show notes. Otherwise, thanks for staying with us. This has been a great episode. I loved it. And I think please just don't feel that bikini bod pressure as a takeaway. Don't crash diet. I wonder if my phone's been listening

and I'm now gonna get swamped with loads of bikini tax things. You'll see the bikini tax tonight, I bet you. Oh no. Everybody, thank you. Please do hit subscribe and like the show. It does make such a difference for Ella and I. And like I said, keep commenting on Apple and Spotify because we do read them and it gives us such

inspiration for the next episode so thank you for listening. Thank you, bye!