The Wellness Scoop - Body Scans, Brain-Boosting Foods & The Truth About UPFs

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

This week, we put body scans to the test—are they the future of personal health tracking or just another wellness gimmick? We both tried them and are sharing our results, what surprised us, and whether they’re actually worth it. Plus, Europe’s life expectancy is falling, and England is seeing the biggest decline. We explore the obesity crisis, preventable diseases, and why today’s generation may live shorter lives than their parents. Next, creatine is everywhere, but should you be taking it? We break down who actually benefits, common myths, and whether it deserves a spot in your routine. Then, we talk ultra-processed foods—what actually counts as a UPF? We finally break down the NOVA system, clear up the misinformation, and answer a listener’s question about whether everyday foods like yoghurt and bread really count as UPFs. We also cover the surprising brain-boosting benefits of walnuts, why milk may lower bowel cancer risk, and the latest baby nutrition trend that’s dividing parents. Recommendations This Week Viridian Vegan EPA & DHA Oil – Ella’s go-to Omega-3 supplement Ruuby – The ultimate at-home wellness booking app Ion8 and Ulula Steel Water Bottles Rhi has surprise for Ella!! Join us as we cut through the noise, break down the trends, and bring you real, practical advice on what’s worth your time, money, and health! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you get into an Escape Plug-in Hybrid, you get the perfect mix. You can chill in electric mode, turn it up in gas mode, or get the best of both in hybrid mode. Choose how you move in the all-in-one Escape. And right now, get a $2,500 rebate on the Escape Plug-in Hybrid and all 2025 Escape models. For details, visit your Toronto area Ford store or ford.ca. Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration.

And we are your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. And that's why we created this podcast to cut through that noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. And we just love this community. We love the show. And we're thrilled again to be here as always. Before we get started, I just wanted to read a snippet of a little message that we got this week that honestly meant so much to me and Rhee, I think it will to you as well. This lovely

listener said, thank you so much for the work you do. It's so empowering to hear that our very best and healthiest version of ourselves is within reach. And I just love that so much. And I hope that's what you guys take from this episode and every episode, that these simple, easy things are within reach and they will help you so much to feel healthier, happier, more energized and less confused. It feels like we're really cutting through and you know I've had so many people sending me reels of crazy things they're hearing. You know we're just both nodding at each other because Ella sent me one last night. Yeah last night and we were just both discussing

it. So honestly thank you for just being on this journey with us and your lovely feedback. Although someone did tell us they gave us four stars, not five. And said, I've taken a star away because they're not assertive enough and don't back themselves enough. So let's be our most confident selves today. Yeah, that was actually quite good feedback. Did it warrant the four stars?

No, but it's always as a woman, it's this really interesting balance of backing yourself and being confident, but not being called out for being arrogant. And it's something I definitely struggle to toe a line between. Me too, but I don't know if it exists. I don't think anyone can get it 100% right, can they?

I think we put that pressure on ourselves to deliver the message in this podcast every week in the right way. It's a big ask. A fun one though. Yeah. And don't forget you guys can listen to our extra scoops on Thursdays now. So we had How to Be Happy last week

and we're just going to be covering everything that you're hearing about and giving you 20 minutes or so of an overview so you understand and again feel empowered and inspired to be in control of your health and well-being. A hundred percent. So before we get to our big announcements today, Ella, what have we got coming up on today's show? Okay, it's a big show today.

It's always a big show today. What's new? We have got body scans, the truth about body scans. Are they the future of personal health tracking or another wellness gimmick? We both tried it. Obesity crisis again and falling life expectancies. Why Europeans may now have shorter lives than

their parents, so that's a tricky one but we'll digest that. Creatine, the hype versus the facts, should you be taking this must have supplement, who benefits from it, who doesn't? Can walnuts make you smarter? There's a new study that reveals some surprising brain boosting benefits of those nuts. Milk and cancer prevention, that's been a big headline, can a daily glass of milk actually lower your bowel cancer risk? More confusion around ultra processed food what actually counts as a UPF and butter and babies the latest baby nutrition trend that has got people talking and then as always our wellness must-haves each week.

So Rhee what have you been up to this week? Hi, yeah. I mean, the Butter and Babies headline gets me every time, so when we speak about that later, I can't actually believe it. So I've just come, Ella, as you know, from a panel talk, a really interesting one, to say the least, and it was about insurance and health apps and the shape of the UK and the world, essentially. And I was sat in between the CEO of Bupa, the CEO of Mind, the charity, head of Vitality,

KPMG. It was quite a big panel. And to adhere to our beginner, the four-star review from our lovely listener that said, you know, you do need to back yourselves, I think that kind of stayed in my head, actually, today. I genuinely thought, do you know what? I do feel intimidated, but I deserve to be here on this panel.

And I felt like I could add a voice to it. So I'm becoming a little bit more assertive, which is a good thing for my week. It's actually Eating Disorder Awareness Week. So it's been really busy for the team and I and the clinic team because we try and do as much as we can around this. A lot of my clinicians work for Beat, the Eating Disorder Awareness Week, so it's been really busy for the team and I and the clinic team because we try and do as much as we can around this. A lot of my clinicians work for Beat, the eating disorder charity, and there's always a lot of work that we do behind the scenes.

And I took Zackey one highlight. My eldest, sadly, my little one's only two and a half, so I don't think he'd have sat through the whole show. But we went to see Cirque du Soleil. I saw it on your Instagram and I've been desperate to take the girls, what does it go? You have to go. So for me, the Royal Albert Hall, I worked there for 10 years.

I was a steward, I used to show people to their seats in a red coat and then I got promoted to the box office and I still have friends there now that work at the Royal Albert Hall. I knew everyone from the guy at stage door to the ticket office and just being back in that creative world. Oh, I can't rave about it enough. But I have something very poignant to show of you, Alex.

I'm going to play, I've not done this before, I'm going to play a speech that I saw on Instagram that I think we could all benefit from. And this is from Jamila Jamil. So let me see if this works. And I want to see what you think of it, Alex. I think it's really poignant. Please do not sell your older lady self short. Don't take her for granted. She is a legend and she deserves protecting. Fill your body with energy and life and joyful experiences. Do not hurt her for some quick fix, for a beauty standard that can and will definitely change again and again and again. Please make sure that your old lady self knows that you were looking out for her while you still could. So when I saw that speech, it really made me emotional, it made me well up because that essentially is what we talk about on the wellness scoop but we do not credit our older

self we're always thinking now and not thinking how the lifestyle we're living now can impact that lady in the future and I just thought it's such a poignant way to start the podcast. It honestly makes me really emotional as well I think I'm feeling quite emotional today don't worry, I'm not in a bad mood. I'm just a bit emotional. But it is, and I think I see it in both senses. It's how do we exactly look after ourselves in the best way to give ourselves the best future life.

But also, again, I think it's because I look at my girls and I think of the little children we once were. And we all have our own soul, and everyone's just trying to do their best in the world and it feels like we are so tough on ourselves. We speak badly about ourselves, we put so much completely unrealistic pressure on ourselves. And I think maybe this is just a reminder to us and everyone listening just to try and take that pressure off and do your best but be so proud of your best because it's more than good enough.

Exactly. I think you can take so many things away from that speech, but well done Jamila Jamil because I absolutely love some of the work she does. She's just a complete nutter powerhouse. What about you Ella, how's the week been? Well, I'm not grumpy this week as I said. Thanks for bearing with me everyone last week. No, I'm feeling really good.

Sky took the book, Belly Bugs, that you gave me for them. I've got it back for you today, into school, and they love talking about it apparently. All about how powerful their gut is. And again, I just find it so interesting to start giving children at such a young age these tools for understanding their health and wellbeing. So Belly Bugs, we talked about it a few weeks ago,

but brilliant book for teaching children about the gut microbiome and the power of their diets. And the other thing, I'm on such a roll with my exercise this year and I feel so strong. And I remember before I got pregnant, this is six years ago now, I felt so strong and it made me feel super, super empowered and confident in myself. And I feel like I'm getting that back and it feels so great. So it's amazing what consistency does. It's so true though, because I think once you've had a baby,

it can take up to two years for everything to regulate and settle back down before you can even start a regime and be really back to yourself. So well done, you. Because being strong, that's what we need as we age as well. Absolutely. I did some weights for the first time at the weekend. I did a personal training session with my dad.

I love that. Yes, I did, which was a whole family. The kids were there as well. But he said, I'm going to do it. Do you want to join? I thought, yeah, I've never really lifted weights. I'll give it a go. And it was great.

So I'm thinking I might bring that into my routine. That's so fantastic. I love it. Well done, you. Multi-generational exercise. It was absolutely fab. But the thing that we've both been up to this week that we want to do a little section on because it's absolutely fascinating, is a health scan.

Yes. So we were introduced to, do you say NECO? NECO Health? I think so. Yeah, I don't know if it's NECO, NECO Health. But it's been shaking up HealthTech with 100,000 people on its waiting list. I mean, it's got such a big waiting list.

And a recent 260 million funding boost. And it actually launched in Sweden in February 2023. And then it came to London. How lucky are we? This January, exactly. And just to clarify, we were not paid to talk about this. But it's something that you guys probably have seen on social media as much as us. And obviously that's what we want to talk about on here.

I saw many influencers going. I've seen lots of people and they're doing like reels on it going in taking pictures in the robes and things. Exactly and there was a similar one that launched in the US called Pranovo which again Kim Kardashian and kind of massive celebs were doing. So I feel for the last year or so I've seen so many people talking about these health scans and these appointments to kind of get a 101 on their health. And then we were both invited to try it and we thought, OK, well, let's try it. And then we can talk about this trend with a bit of personal experience added in. As Ree said, it has just completely blown up this $260 million that was their Series B funding round,

100,000 people on the wait list to get in. I mean, it's serious stuff. So it's 299 pounds. It's not invasive. And it basically collects millions of health data points in minutes, which can assess skin abnormalities, metabolic syndrome, stroke and heart attack risk, blood sugar levels for pre-diabetes while also checking for skin cancer and blood irregularities. And then you get all your results in a doctor-led consultation literally

minutes later. So you're in and out in an hour. And then the one in the U.S., Pranuvvo, that has been making huge waves. That was founded back in 2018 in Canada and Vancouver. Came to New York in April 2023. And that's after securing $70 million in funding. So this is big business here. And some of their investors are people like Cindy Crawford. As I said, Kim Kardashian posted about her scan.

That got 3.5 million likes. She called it a life-saving machine. So this is a big conversation. They use MRI-based scans, so a bit different to the one in the UK, NECO. And they can detect early disease signs, but not using radiation or contrast dyes. They do a full body scan in 60 minutes, but that cost $2,500. So obviously, 300 pounds or so for NECO is expensive, but $2,500, next level. The interesting thing is there are other research to show, though, that things like this can

give you false positives. So in some research, they were showing that there's quite a high rate of that, about 16% or so of asymptomatic people actually get false positives in these MRI-based research. So it's an interesting area. We wanted to bring it to the show, as Risa, because just like us, you've probably been seeing it everywhere, which has got us curious. So what was your experience like?

Oh, Ella. So I went first. Yeah. I was too scared to go. I know. I said to Ella, I text her afterwards. I was like, you really don't need to be scared to go, it's totally okay. I thought, what a genius idea if you really are unsure about your health right now.

For me, what was really interesting is that thankfully all my results were, I think as to be expected, I'm quite a healthy individual. I know that as a nutritionist, I knew my cholesterol levels would be good. And my age is younger than I am, which yay, is always really good to come out with at the end. You know the bit where they say your biological age is four years younger than you are or five years younger than you are? That was quite nice to have the feedback from, but nothing really surprised me if I'm being honest, apart from the strength test. So at the end you had to grip these, I can't say like handle bars and squeeze as tight

as you could. And I don't think I squeezed as tight as I should have done. But it said that my strength was below average. And that was a bit of a, oh, okay, I'm doing the right thing then by trying to work on my strength once a week at the gym. Because that's my little goal as well. Back to those monkey bars. Back to my monkey bars.

I boxed last week, you know, and my hands still hurt. I have like muscle aches and my hands are shaking. I can't write properly. It's three days later and I can't write. But it was fascinating. But what I really thought when I was in there Ella is that I actually want my dad to do this, not me. I'm well. It's that phrase I know we're going to bring up later and I'll let you introduce it to everybody but the people that really need these scans are the ones that probably can't get them. Yeah it's interesting. The other thing that was mind boggling is it's, which I totally get from a branding

perspective I thought it was very very clever, but is branded as though you're walking into we've just started watching that show Severance and it's like some kind of weird AI alternative reality. It's so futuristic in a way. It feels like you've stepped onto another planet. And as I said, I think it's very clever branding because you arrive and you feel like you're in totally different hands. It's like no other medical experience you've ever had, but it is so extreme and it's kind of like wearing Star Trek uniforms. Yeah. And you get like Star Trek sandals to wear and it's all so stark and then robot voices

come out of the walls. They do, yes. And tell you what to do. And it's like, it's kind of lights, camera action and screens everywhere. So it is quite, I find that almost unsettling just how odd in a way it is. But as I said, I think it's super clever

from a branding perspective to kind of make you feel like this is the next frontier of health care. And what was good for Ella and I because we're both quite fair was the skin and I didn't actually mention that is the ability to capture in high resolution every single marking on your body and I know that we both have those concerns don't we with our skin? Yeah I know quite a few of my family have had precancerous moles removed, so it's something I'm really, really hot on as a result of very close family members.

And so that was really, really interesting. I think the few things that really stayed with me, A, as you said, I guess it's not that surprising that heart health was good, cholesterol, blood pressure, kind of all optimal. Again, heart age, three to four years younger than my actual age. It's like, blood pressure, kind of all optimal. Again, heart age, three to four years younger than my actual age. I was like, woohoo, it's all working. But the thing that I thought was really interesting

was it showed, and we talked about blood sugar the other day, and I just wanna bring it up again, because at the moment, again, I am seeing so much of it online. And I'm becoming, just to be honest, incredibly frustrated by it. I think it's a very unhealthy conversation for the most part. And you know we talked about this a few weeks ago like

I had a caramel slice for breakfast today, I had mostly just some sweets for lunch to be honest at this point in the day and I don't do that very often but I am so far from perfect. I do not obsessively think about the exact balance of macronutrients in all of my meals. I eat carbohydrates on their own. Ultra-processed ingredients sometimes. I just had a shot with some ultra-processed ingredients. I had a very sweet matcha this morning

after five hours of very, very broken sleep last night. You know, on the weekends we love to go to what my kids call the pizza pub and we have pizza and chips for lunch. They call it the pizza pub. They call it the pizza pub. They call it the pizza pub. That's so cool. Do you know after you said you did movie night with the girls, I did movie nights with the

boys. I now do it on Fridays like you do. It's so good. And I really like it because I get to pick the film. Oh I don't get to pick the film. But what I meant is so it's like obviously I really try my best with my health and obviously I'm very lucky to have a lot of education around it. But I am so far from perfect and I have meals and snacks across every week.

My blood sugar will spike and what it shows is that my blood sugar control is excellent. And I think the whole point is that's because it's what you do as a general take across 365 days. We need to stop worrying and demonizing specific components of specific meals. It is so unhelpful. If I see another video saying oats are bad for you, I might scream. Yeah, and like a chart showing a spike after you have something. It's like, that's fine. If you do that, as we talked about, and if anyone didn't listen to that episode, go back and have a listen so you get a bit more overview of blood sugar spikes and what it does. But it's just such

an important reassurance for people. The issue is not in what you do on occasion. The issue is in what you do three meals a day, a snack or two a day, 365 days a year. And if you're generally having a balanced diet, stop worrying about it. Unless you're pre-diabetic, just to caveat, unless you are already unwell or there's a level and you think you're at risk or your ethnicity puts you at more of a risk, because obviously there's some areas where we are more predisposed to things, then you don't need to worry about it.

And if anything, CGMs, these glucose monitors, should be offered to those groups, those population groups. Wouldn't that be great if the NHS or the government was like, hey, we're going to fund a load of CGMs for people that are predisposed to type 2 diabetes? Exactly, to give the education around that roundedness of diet as opposed to focusing on one specific snack or one specific meal or enjoying dessert when you've gone out for

dinner that week. And I think what we wanted to bring up to close this section of body scans was I genuinely thought it was really interesting. As I said, I have a lot of health anxiety and I think it comes from suddenly getting so ill in my early 20s out of nowhere. That must have been so hard, Ella. It was so hard and it's just given me a kind of a fear, I think, of losing my health again because I lost my life. And then only a few years later, my mother-in-law, who was completely healthy overnight, had a seizure, was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and passed away within the year.

And I think those two things happening relatively close to each other has created this anxiety where I feel like your health can be ripped from underneath you so quickly. And so I definitely have complete health anxiety and I'm very aware of that. I think we all do because I think everybody knows someone sadly now with cancer or knows someone living with it and we are all touched by ailments in life. But yeah, I think some of these tech features, just like the panel I was on today discussing health apps and yes, it does make information more accessible to those that can afford it, but it doesn't help the deeper picture that there's a whole level of people out there that can't afford it. So where does that leave them? That's it.

We need full societal change. And I think what's interesting is this idea of the worried well, and it's what we want to. I think it's that equal balance in the show, isn't it? We want to empower you and inspire you to eat walnuts and to dance in your kitchen as we were talking the other day. And all these simple things you can do, just like that comment at the beginning of this idea that feeling

your best, healthiest version of yourselves is within reach. We want to do that, but stop worrying about the little things because the little things is when you become the worried well and it takes over your life in a way that's not empowering any longer. And that's why we're here because we all feel it. Don't worry. You're not alone. It's not a bad thing to worry and it's okay to be in this position. But yeah, let us help you debunk it all. Tosie, don't get too head up about one specific moment of having a blood sugar spike. So, Rui, have you got any recommendations for us this week? Right. So the first recommendation is actually something that I hope you don't mind. But I

wanted to raise awareness for on the podcast because it's just such an easy thing to do. So you don't mind, but I wanted to raise awareness for on the podcast because it's just such an easy thing to do. So since COVID, I became aware of the DKMS register. So they are a wonderful charity and they help provide stem cells and amazing research for people with blood cancer. And the reason I became aware of it is because it's the same as a COVID swab. You know, when we used to all have those sticks with the cotton wool, but at the end, you'd have to swab it in your mouth. For everybody listening, blood cancer touches so many people of all ages.

It's really devastating. And I'm not going to touch on this for too long because it is quite a really sad topic. But everyone listening, all you have to do, it's free. You don't even have to pay for it. It's just sign up to the DKMS register and they send you a swab kit in the post. And if you're aged between 17 and 55, you just take a swab.

And if you're ever called upon to give some blood, that's all you have to do. And then you can save a life. It's just so easy. So I'm a member. I've got most of my family that are eligible to just order one of those swab kits. And you just never know when you can help someone

with a rare blood cancer. So that's my first little recommendation. That's a brilliant recommendation. I'm going to go and do that. Please, everyone, it's the same as a COVID test. We were all doing those. So we can definitely do this to help up the register, to help all these people.

And the second one from me, okay, I've gotta get out my bag. So I've got something for all of you. And it's funny because I knew Ella had it in the brief, but I was one step ahead. So I got you all the bottles. Oh my gosh. One for Will, producer Will, here you go. He gets blue and I get pinky purple, so we're.

One for the girls as well. Oh my gosh. So thank you to everyone, because we read every comment. And on the Spotify, you know the comment section underneath, and we had a few on Instagram Instagram when we were discussing plastic water bottles We were really recommended this company ion eight. So I have got will Ella I've got my kids some as well some ion eight stainless steel bottles to try you are Amazing. Thank you so much. That was coming through in spades. So many people recommended it, so I can't wait to try these water bottles.

Yeah, and they feel so light. Have a look at the top, because obviously the top I think is plastic a little bit, but still the whole bottle, because I haven't actually opened it, I didn't want to touch your water bottles. They only arrived yesterday. I was like, yes, just in time. They're perfect. Yeah, but they're cute and they're a good size as well. But anyway, thank you everybody listening. There was one other recommendation as well, which I think

is a much smaller brand, so nice to shout out, called Alula. U-L-U-L-A. Again, these steel based water bottles and a couple of other listeners were really recommending them. As I said, I think they're a much smaller brand, so really nice to have both options available. But those were great and we'll put those in. Oh, I'd love to try them. To have both options available, but those were great. And we'll put those in the show notes for you guys to come on. But Ionate and Alula were both brilliant recommendations of stainless steel water bottles for the,

not having quite so many plastics in our lives. I have binned a few plastic things at home now as well. Ella, do you have any suggestions for our listeners? I have got two suggestions. I wanted to talk about water bottles as well, so that means I don't have three. Sorry, I took it off. So that's good.

I had too many this week, so that's brilliant. One was, I know we were talking about Omega 3 last week, and one supplement, because a few people asked, well, what do you give your children? This one, I do put a lot of hemp and flax, chia seeds in their food, things like porridge or smoothies, for example, energy balls, which is a super, super easy way to get them in. Even just, you know, they love

peanut butter and jam rice crackers, and they'll just sprinkle some hemp seeds on those, or avocado toast, they put hemp seeds in. They don't really taste of anything. You can get a big bag for a relatively good price, and it's such an easy way to just get Omega-3s and bring a bit of nutrition to something, as they said, quite simple. The energy balls are genius because they're like chocolate balls for kids. They're like, love them. And you can get in so much. We'll talk about walnuts obviously later. But an ingredient like that that children might not chomp on, you can chuck in or chia seeds, for example. So they're brilliant. But a really good Omega-3 supplement that we've actually used, oh gosh, for years now is from Viridian.

And it's their vegan EPA and DHA oil. Comes in 30 mils. It doesn't taste of anything. It's just like putting a little bit of olive oil in your mouth. So kids take it super easy. Weirdly, they really like it. I wouldn't say I really like it, but it's super easy to taste. It's funny they like those things because my kids with my vitamin D, nutrition plus D drops, they love it. They open their mouth wide and just like give me a drop. Yeah, they call it big mouth Yeah, it's really weird because I think I'm like open your mouth anyway, I don't know that maybe that's weird but they Yeah, it's so easy. So that's my recommendation It's a really good quality and just very very easy for you take. And then I've also been obsessed with

the Ruby app. We talked about it the other day, me and you, but again, another female founded business which we love on this show. But it's a like at home wellness app. So they do massage and facials and things like that at home. So I have to say, I saw Ella doing this because I know you share sometimes I've got the Ruby team. So I contacted Nimmy at Secret Spa and I think they do the same thing but I've booked tonight the first time in over a year I've booked myself a massage and it's because I saw you getting it and I've done it and I'm so excited because I'm also very sleep deprived and I was like this is what I need even if they're up all night I don't care now.

Yeah you've got a massage tonight. Anyway I just thought it was such a great premise, and it's Ruby with two U's. So I think they are just in London at the moment, although I saw on the founders' Instagram that they're opening in Manchester, which is cool. But it's just a really great app. So if you need a bit of self-care, but you've got loads going on, it's at your house,

which is just genius. Manchester is also the place to be right now. Everything seems to be going to Manchester. Yeah, I totally agree. It's an amazing, amazing city. So shall we move on to the headlines this week? Right. Health headlines this week. This is the section where we break down the biggest health stories that are making news every single week and read what we got on the agenda.

Oh, the best headline ever. Can walnuts boost your brain power? And it was such a refresher for me, Ella, because it's obviously in the nutrition world something I just know but don't actively do. So could a handful of walnuts at breakfast give you a mental edge? Now, a new study from the University of Reading suggests that it might. So Ella sent me this.

And research has found eating 50 grams of walnuts. So that actually sounds like a lot, but because nuts have a bit of weight to them, when you put 50 grams on the scale it isn't as heavy as you think and it is like a handful. And if you do it just pop it on your muesli, your yoghurt and I know they're an acquired taste, walnuts, so I coat them with a bit of chocolate and I put them in the freezer. My kids actually like that and then they have walnuts and then we put it on the porridge sometimes but I've been doing it in the morning. My kids actually like that. And then they have walnuts and then we put it on the porridge sometimes. But I've been doing it in the morning. But walnuts are linked to better memory performance later on. Gosh, do I need that compared to a calorie match

breakfast without nuts. And faster reaction times. Way faster. So it says here that published in the Food and Functions, this is another study track, 32 young adults aged 18 to 30 eating a walnut-rich breakfast versus a standard breakfast. And it was so efficient during mentally demanding tasks. So basically our brain activity is going boom every time we have some walnuts, Ella. Yes, you've got efficient brain, better memory, faster reaction times from having a handful

of walnuts. It's just no brainer. So, oh gosh, excuse the pun. It's a really good pun. I do this sometimes and I cringe at myself. Oh my gosh. I love it. But no, they're nutrition guys. Protein, polyphenols, omega-3s. We just all should be getting more nuts and seeds anyway.

But Ella, tell us how we can incorporate these into our diet as well as just a handful in the morning. Yeah, it's such a great question. And we love this kind of stuff, don't we, because it's so easy to do. But I'm like you, I'm going to be honest, I don't love the taste of walnuts, just on their own, versus like almonds, so delicious, cashews, hazelnuts. Same cashews, pistachios. Oh my gosh, pistachios. Zachy takes them all out of my nut jar, all the little green ones, they're gone. I'm like, damn it, he's had all of them. They are so delicious, aren't they, pistachios? Buty takes them all out of my nut jar. All the little green ones, they're gone. I'm like, damn it, he's had all of them.

They are so delicious, aren't they, pistachios? But so some easy ways to eat some more walnuts. Obviously, you can just blend them into smoothies. I do think if there are things that you know are so good for you, like chia seeds, flax seeds, hemp seeds, walnuts, that you're not kind of throwing on every meal, chucking them into a smoothie is such an easy way to get more of it.

As you were saying, top it onto your porridge or if you're going to make granola, add walnuts for example to the granola mix and making granola at home couldn't be easier. You're literally putting oats, nuts, seeds, whatever you've got. You can use loads of different leftover packets of nuts and seeds. Mix it all up with a little bit of maple syrup or honey and a bit of coconut oil, cinnamon or vanilla if you've got it and roast it about 180 degree fan oven for 20-25 minutes. I mean it's so, so easy. And watch it right?

Because it can go quite quickly. Yeah, it can go quite quickly. Maybe stir it halfway through, then you can add raisins or anything, apricots, etc. at the end if you want them. But- Organic apricots! Unsulphured! But that's such an easy way to do it.

You can make energy balls or granola bars. And then one of my favorite things to do is a mushroom and walnut ragu. It is so delicious. It's one of my favorite, favorite recipes. Been making it for years and years and years. Make it here. Make it here.

Yeah. Make it here. Definitely. I still owe you a cheer pudding. But you chop the walnuts up really small. and then when you stir them through and you add them quite near the end, it gives this really hearty, I don't want to say meaty, but kind of born to better word, meaty texture. It's so good.

Well, you can taste when you crunch into a walnut, the reason it's not got the most palatable taste compared to an almond, for instance, is because of that fat percentage within it. So our brain is 60% fat and the healthy fats in the walnut, you can taste the texture when you sink your teeth into it. You can almost taste the oil, the natural oils within the nuts. So it's not for everyone, but if you incorporate them into dishes like Ella's walnut ragu,

which sounds insanely good, then yeah, no brainer. I went out and bought a large bag of walnuts when we popped this in the brief, and I've had them every day, and the kids have snacked on them. How are your reaction times? Well, I can't say I've noticed that yet, but it's coming. It's coming in the gym, actually, when I was hitting that punch bag, you know, maybe.

That's why you can't write now. That's why I can't write. And my thumb feels even trying to sleep at night. You know, when you put your hand on your bed next to you, it hurt. Oh, my gosh. See, I just can't do exercise like that. I just so don't have the patience for it. I got really into it and I was like punching my gym PT, like, get all the frustration out. Oh my gosh, okay. You can punch out or dance out, whatever, whatever floats your boat. Are you crushing your bills? Defeating your monthly payments. Sounds like you're at the top of your financial game.

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Okay headline two. I think if headline one was really optimistic and a nice example of the simple things we can all do to improve our health, headline two is kind of the opposite. And it's pretty sad reading, to be toasty honest. But it was absolutely everywhere. So we felt it was very, very important to include.

And again, it just shows this balance between let's not be the worried well, but equally, we've got to radically, collectively change our diets. And that is because life expectancy growth has stalled across Europe and England has seen the sharpest decline. And this does collectively mean that Europeans now looking to have a lower life expectancy than their parents, which is a really, really sobering thought. There's obviously so many factors from that, but what we've got here is the data from 1990 to 2011 at first.

Life expectancy in England increased by approximately 0.25 years. But the problem between 2011 and 2019, this is obviously pre-COVID data, so I can imagine it's got worse, this growth rate diminished to just 0.07. And in a study of 20 countries, all except Norway, experienced a deceleration in life expectancy improvement. So the biggest factor here, the elephant in the room, is basically the ultra processed foods, as I'm obviously writing about in my next book, The Unprocessed Plate. But our diets are just

not good, are they? They're not. I think the fact that England's faced the steepest decline is really, really sad. And just to quantify if it's helpful to anyone, this growth that we were having between 1990 and 2011, the 0.25 years annually that we were adding to our life expectancy, that's obviously equivalent of three months a year. So, you know, it was really making a meaningful difference to how long we were living, whereas as we said, it's now 0.07 years added per year. So it's a really stark change.

And as you said on the elephant in this room, and again, like it's absolutely not an individual's fault, but the reality is the proportion of obese adults in England has nearly doubled in that time. So it was 15% in 1993 and 29% in 2002. There has just been, for a multitude of different reasons, but there has been a surge in obesity and that's obviously linked to poor diets. We've got a lack of physical activity going on and we've seen a huge increase in preventable diseases like heart disease and cancer. Obviously

not all cancers, but many being lifestyle related at this point. And there are countries like Norway and Sweden who are continuing to make progress with their life expectancy. But generally speaking and as a European population we are really, really struggling. It's amazing when you see a world on Norway and Sweden they always seem to make these incredible progressive steps forward. And in this country, we just step back and we have to treat this issue with kindness, I think, first of all, and compassion, because nobody chooses this. Just again, to highlight that fact and the pandemic.

Everybody had something happen to them in the pandemic, mental health wise, physical health, you name it. It impacted every single person in the country. So it made existing health disparities and weaknesses worse in the healthcare systems, the response, the UK government's developing, as we discussed before, you know, the 10-year health plan to focus on preventative measures. But what I worry about, Ella, is that this again, the divide's getting wider between the socioeconomic situation and also between the access to healthcare is getting further and further away. People that really need the NHS are on such long waiting lists and people that can afford

private are just heading towards private. Like you said, people are leaving the country that have the higher bracket that would support these systems in the first place. So it's not just limited to Europe. Obviously, the US is experiencing this stagnation in life expectancy. And what I find, I want to say this in the right way, concerning on social media when we look at these big health headlines, is not the glorification of a poor diet. But we're first to put our hands up and say that no one eats

perfectly all the time. It's okay to enjoy enjoyed items. You have to. It's okay to have McDonald's every now and again if that's what you really love. But it is not okay to have it every single day. And there are some corners of the internet that really praise those behaviors. Exactly. I think well said. And it's a really interesting balance. And I think the word balance is so overused that it almost doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore. But it's exactly that, which is that it's not about each individual meal, but it is about your own. What you choose to eat as a general rule is so incredibly important and kind of can't

be stressed enough. What you do on occasion is of really no consequence to most people if they're already in a good state of well-being and a good state of health. What you do on occasion then is of, as I said, almost no consequence. But what really matters is what your daily-ish habits are. Because we have an ageing population. And as you know, my master's degree was in obesity, risks and prevention. And my master's degree now would look so different because of the data we had 10 years ago. And that's not that long.

No, 10 years ago I did my master's in, gosh, 10 years ago. And now it's become even just, it's just got worse and worse and worse and worse. And no strategy the government's used has worked. And I think there's just such a divide between the different corners of health. Mental health is pigeonholed into its own category, whereas actually mental health, as we know, is linked with diet, is linked with sleep, is linked with physical activity. And instead of putting all these elements together,

we just don't seem to know how to bring them together in this country and clearly the rest of the world. Anyway, on a positive note, we're hoping that by talking about this, it just makes you think, I might add some walnuts if I'm able to, or I might just have my porridge and not worry about those oat messages that my blood sugar's going crazy. Because actually, porridge is a better choice than a chocolate bar on the go. Absolutely.

I couldn't think of a better... I want to say like, obviously, except for because it's so confusing, everything, not obviously anymore, because you can buy protein chocolate bars and you can buy the most extraordinary protein bars that have not a single real food in them. They say zero carb on them, so people think they're healthy. Or zero sugar,

and you turn it over and the number of artificial sweeteners, et cetera. It reads some kind of nuclear reactive agent or something nuclear. I mean, it's just so far removed from food. So you say, you know, cheese oats, not chocolate bars. But as I said, I don't think it's even very obvious because the claims are now so compelling

as to why you would buy something. But when you turn it over, it's just absolutely awful. I know. And if you're in a position where you are able to, you know, afford a nice food shop, just try and maximize on that, I think, and let's spread. Education is power at the end of the day. And don't forget the boring things,

like batch cooking, overnight oats, or prepping little bags of smoothie ingredients with frozen fruit that you can chuck into a blender, sipping on herbal tea, drinking lots of water, going for a walk on your lunch break, popping some walnuts on your porridge. These are such simple, simple things, but they add up, drinking lots of water, going for a walk on your lunch break, popping some walnuts on your porridge. These are such simple, simple things, but they add up. They mean so much and you might inspire the person sitting next to you at work.

I agree. Spread that message. And it leads me on to dissecting the headline. So the headline doesn't always reflect what the study says, which is so intriguing. So Ella, I'll let you lead on the fact that dairy milk intake may reduce bowel cancer risk. Let's go into this new headline. I think this is a really interesting headline. I'm sure loads of you guys saw this because this was absolutely everywhere over the last few weeks. And it's, as Rhi said, I think it's a really great example of where the headline doesn't really match the content of the article. It's not wrong, but it in no shape or form

summarizes the reality. The reality of this study was that calcium is being shown to reduce bowel cancer risk, not exclusively dairy milk. Now, I'm not demonizing either side. We talked about milk the other day. But I think it's just an important point. This isn't actually about drinking cow's milk. This is actually about eating enough calcium. And I think as

well it's important to give the context of this, which is that actually really unfortunately bowel cancer is one of the often more lifestyle related cancers that is absolutely on the rise. It's expected to reach 3.2 million global cases by 2040. It's the biggest rise in cancer. Yeah. And the reasons remain a bit unclear for that, but it's also rising incredibly sharply in younger people worldwide. So between the early 1990s and 2018,

the number of UK adults aged 25 to 49 diagnosed with bowel cancer rose by 22%. So it's a very, very relevant thing to be talking about because it's such a relevant topic and again that's something that's been in the papers a lot when we're talking about this rise in cancer in the under 50s. Lots of it is about this massive rise in bowel cancers. But it's linked as well isn't it to the life expectancy.

So go back to the headline we had before which discusses obesity but also the fact that our life expectancy is lower than our parents. At the same time as a result of our diet and our lifestyle being so poor we are increasing the rise in cancers as well. So this is having a knock on effect guys, not just in your weight or the other comorbidities that come with that. We're talking about actual damage to your bowel, rising risks, you know it's the ultra processed food consumption here.

So the study acknowledged that 30 grams of red and processed meat a day was linked to an 8% increased risk, and then 20 grams of alcohol a day was linked to 15% higher risk of bowel cancer. And let's be honest, everyone in the UK, once you hit 18, it's like this booze fest, although thankfully as we discussed, sobriety is increasing. This isn't as popular, but lots of people are drinking. And red and processed meat is a huge part of the youngsters' culture when they go out. We were just talking about our kids' packed lunches.

And my girl's a vegetarian. But the standard packed lunch at school is a ham and cheese sandwich when they go on school trips. Always. So I just got some cheese sandwich. But processed ham, that is the standard packed lunch, which is actually, again, just if we're being frank about this, astonishing.

Because we know processed red meat is very, very bad for us. So why that's the standard meal given to children as packed lunches just boggles the mind? It upsets me, I feel as well. It's like we're ignoring all the evidence. I'm owning my opinion here. I think we're owning it this week. And I agree, Zachy. I feel as well. It's like ignoring all the evidence. I'm owning my opinion here. I think we're owning it this week. And I agree.

You told us to. Yeah, you told us to. So we're doing it. And I'm the same. I always opt for the veggie option for Zachary because I don't want him having ham. And it's the same at children's birthday parties. It's the same everywhere I go that there

is an influx of ultra-processed foods and processed meat. And it is the only classified class I carcinogen that is out there, researched. You just cannot deny the robust evidence. But what was interesting about this headline before we digress completely is the suggestion in the paper that you had to have a large glass of milk daily, which I found fascinating, to reduce the risk by nearly 17%.

Let's go back to the stats here that you reduce your risk by 15% already by the alcohol and again a further nearly 10 by processed meat. So a glass of milk, you can get calcium in so many other areas of your diet, Ella. Yes, so the research exactly as you said was showing that drinking about 300 milligrams of calcium from this daily glass of milk would work because it would help potentially neutralize bile acids and free fatty acids in the colon, which could otherwise contribute to the cancer risk, which is really interesting. And the research was led by someone called Dr. Karen Papier at the University of Oxford, and they were analyzing dietary data from over 540,000 women over nearly 17 years.

Amazing. So it's an extraordinary study. I mean, it's really, really meaningful. And as you said, it confirmed those three things. It confirmed that alcohol and red or processed meats do raise a meaningfully raised bowel cancer risk, and calcium has a protective effect. But they also absolutely acknowledged

that their calcium does not have to come from milk, which I think is really important to acknowledge, because I don't know how many adults enjoy having just like a big glass of milk. Do you think the press did it because most people still just think calcium milk, so therefore let's put that in the headline, it's accessible. Yeah, because it makes it really understandable, doesn't it? And it's also such a kind of easy to grasp premise, it's just a large glass of milk. But it's not educating people because, you know, you can get calcium from leafy greens,

you can get it from, you know, a tin of sardines or something, salmon, nuts and seeds, legumes, all the fortified drinks we discussed in the other episode. And soy. Soy. But it has to be the tofu. You have to have calcium enriched on the packet, which means you are opting for a more processed version because you're adding the fortification within it. But honestly, guys, be aware of calcium though because you can't the fortification within it. But honestly guys, be aware of

calcium though because you can't measure it in your blood. So it's actually something that a lot of people do fall short on when they emit dairy actually. But you can get it in so many other areas in your diet. It doesn't have to be a glass of milk. What would be your top tips to include it? My top tips is going to be look at the plant points but get those nuts and seeds because honestly if you're just adding those to most meals that you have and you're getting your veg it's again it's the boring message of you know healthy balanced diet. But if you eat fish I think one of a really easy accessible ways of getting it is having those bony fish like the soft bones that people

get in sardines. A lot of people really enjoy those. They're really affordable for people those tins of sardines rather than in fact probably a bag of nuts which is probably more expensive, which is ironic isn't it? And are there any particular nuts that are really good for calcium? Absolutely. Almonds are really really good. And delicious. And absolutely delicious. Absolutely. But instead of focusing individually just try and increase all your portions of these foods honestly and if you want a proper resource you can always look for free on the NHS website.

My books, The Science of Nutrition, all have calcium graphs and details. Just, yeah, go and have a look. There's lots of sources, guys. Do you know what? It's the thing I like about the aim of getting 30 plants a week is that what it does in trying to focus on having that variety, you know,

switching up the nuts you put on the porridge, or instead of just having peanut butter and toast, you have cashew butter or almond butter, etc., etc., buy different frozen fruits for your smoothie, these simple things, or swap around the veg in your stir-fry, is that as a result, you get a much better balance of vitamins and minerals as well. But you don't have to get so bogged down in all the kind of nitty-gritty of the science, which again is quite overwhelming for busy people. And instead, I think when you really focus on getting that diversity of plants, you end up by proxy having such a great influx

of other nutrients. Because let's be honest, this headline here, well, yes, we all need to eat a healthy, balanced diet. And if we reduce the alcohol and red meat, we wouldn't even be in the situation in the first place where we're increasing the risk. So one of those headlines, eh? When we started the show, we thought,

well, we have enough to talk about every single week. Like, will the headlines keep coming? And oh my gosh, they come thick and fast. Each week, we just have to cut six or seven topics because we can't fit it all in. But we will now move on to what is trending in wellness. So the first thing that we're going to talk about is what we said we'd pick up on this week which is butter before bed for babies.

Okay, you may or may not have come across this but we wanted to unpack it quickly. I'm going to say it was bizarre, personally I feel it's bizarre, new trend that's really taken over social media and it's the idea that parents give their babies spoonfuls of butter before bed in the hope it will help them sleep. And we all get it, like trying to help your children sleep feels really important. Oh, I mean if only I was up all night with my youngest last night. But the trend starts in the US after a pediatric natural doctor, Alana Rumele, claimed in what's now a completely viral video that butter before bed helped her son sleep through the night

because of all the fats keeping their babies full. And then since then, TikTok and Instagram have been just flooded with parents trying it with millions and millions of views on hashtag butter before bed. I just want to start before we get a quote here. Look, we start furrowing our arteries is the phrase, you know, from the minute we're born all the way up with saturated fat that we consume. And by giving a baby that much saturated fat and butter, it just can't be good for them. I find it quite disturbing. Like I understand and I get it. Like didn't our parents used to give like whiskey or something when we were teething?

Yeah, I think maybe grandparents. But yes, I think that was the idea. They'd like dip a dummy in a bit of whiskey. So it's kind of like the same things happening in like different form. Now we're going back to butter instead of alcohol for babies But we wanted to get a child's nutritionist to give you the viewpoints We've got a leading baby nutritionist Charlotte sterling read if you don't follow her on socials. She is phenomenal for

Resources, she's got great books, but she also gives so much free content to everyone every day She helped me so much when I was weaning. I obsessively followed her. She's so good. We love Charlotte. She's incredible. So she has got a voice note for us. Here's the 101 on butter before bed. Sorry, there's no solid evidence of giving babies butter. Oh, sorry. It's on speed. It's on speed. Sorry, Charlotte. It's on 1.5.

Do you listen to things like that? Sometimes, because I'm on the go and I'm like... It's so overwhelming. Charlotte, I adore you. I'm sorry. I just, anyway, here we go. Here is the voice note in one normal speed. So there's no solid evidence that giving babies butter before bed will help their sleep. And actually focusing on a balanced diet with much healthier fat sources such as olive oil

and nut butters and avocado is a much better approach. Plus, the potential for choking has it is also an important point as well, especially for younger babies still learning to eat. It's always really good to be cautious with viral trends that promise these quick fixes, especially around a topic like baby sleep. There are so many factors that play a role and so many things that will impact your little one's sleep. And there is no food that is a magic solution, unfortunately. I hope that's helpful. Can I just say we could delete baby and we could delete butter from that.

And it's the exact advice that we would give across anything, isn't it? There is no magic solution. We totally get why you want it. Unfortunately, things that go viral generally aren't quite what they seem to be. So I think take that and apply to all trends. Absolutely.

And a choking hazard for babies, please remember that one because I don't think that's something most parents would think of. They can't swallow it. That was my other real health anxiety. Oh my gosh. Weaning and choking. I still cut every grape into tiny pieces and the carrots are so thin. Me too.

Me too. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's a big fear. Okay. So I think, as I said, I think take everything that Charlotte said and apply it to basically all trends. If something promises to be a magic answer, a quick fix, to answer all your problems almost immediately,

it probably isn't all it's cracked up to be. But what about creatine? Because that is everywhere. Is that all it's cracked up to be? Oh, here we go, Elle. I feel like every week I'm put on the spot with a new exciting supplement. I know.

I'm like, tell me, tell me. Tell me. I know. Look, let's be positive, though, because creatine's actually one of the supplements that I can say there's really robust data for for different areas. So just so you know, we do make it ourselves in our body, creatine.

So what is it? It's like a naturally forming amino acid. And we already have them in our body. And we don't need to get it from this powder that most people are getting. You can find it in animal-based foods, if you eat animal produce like meat and fish. You need to get around three to five grams of creatine

from our diet. And that's kind of the same as a normal dose you'd get in a powder anyway. This is why the case of creatine is more for sports nutrition. It's more for people that are athletes and you have to understand a food first approach. But additionally, vegans and vegetarians might have slightly lower levels of creatine because they don't consume that animal produce and therefore the effects of taking it, they might have more significant results.

But basically it's linked to improved exercise performance because it helps boost our metabolism, the ATP production. So if those of you remember when we discussed the NAD Plus supplements, the NAD supplements, that that's to do with our energy production. And essentially, creatine helps our energy production, giving our muscles more energy for those short bursts of intense activity. But let's be honest, people that are doing that type of energy burst, it means better

strength, power, endurance during workouts. But most people not doing workouts, let's just be clear, don't need to be taking it. And it also is good for people that are trying to grow muscle. So potentially, you know, if you're doing enough in the gym there, it could be good. And what I found really interesting, Ella, that I know you flagged as well was brain function. But I will say the study we have for improved cognition was in older adults and those who are sleep deprived. And I thought, oh my gosh, maybe I need this. And in other states of mental stress. So it's not just for every average person out there thinking I'm going to take creatine, which is what I've seen on the internet. I've seen so many influencers saying, I'm taking CreaTeen, it's boosting

my brain health. It's literally everywhere at the moment. And then when I was looking it up for the segment, I saw literally from the last two weeks, article in Vogue, GQ, Evening Standard, Men's Health, Women's Health, The Washington Post, and National Geographic, amongst many others. But obviously those are all leading media titles. And they'd all written about it just in the last couple of weeks. I mean, it is everywhere. As you said, I've seen so many influencers talk about it. I actually know so little about it, just to get a recap of it.

Basically, your body has it. Your body's forming it naturally. You don't need it in the sense of vitamin D, for example, in the winter. But what it can do, and as you said, there is genuine research on it. Really well-researched and studied is that if you are very, very into your exercise

and very, very into your performance, as you said, you're an athlete or kind of amateur athlete, then it can genuinely be helpful for enhancing performance and building muscle. Yeah, no, absolutely, 100%. But you know, there are also cons to creatine. Like, you cannot take any supplement and expect it to just be positive. So it's linked to digestive issues.

So in rare cases, if you take too much, which can happen, you know, it's so easy for someone that's not measuring out their portion versus their size, their shape, the activity they do. It can cause bloating, cramping, stomach discomfort. So potential kidney concerns have also been linked. But it's been shown to be safe. So a 2021 study said that if you stick to the recommended dose of three to five grams, guys, you

have to measure that because three to five grams is nothing. It can be so easy to go over that amount. That's when you're putting yourself at risk, really. And then, of course, creatine pulls water into muscle cells so you can get a bit of increased water retention but I reiterate myself once again that even though you see headlines saying it's great for cognition it's great for brain health it's so good for when you're in the gym once again unless you have a goal you probably don't need it and if you are vegan and vegetarian in your

workout it might be more beneficial for you than those that eat an animal-based Unless you have a goal, you probably don't need it. And if you are vegan and vegetarian in your workout, it might be more beneficial for you than those that eat an animal-based diet, an omnivore diet. And also, I think the thing I always feel with all of this is like, you're absolutely right, there is some interesting, maybe indicative research about brain function, but also think about your walnuts,

you know, and all those other simple things that are really, really well researched to support your brain function, exercise, etc. And I feel once you're doing all those things, layer on if you want to with evidence-based practices. But if you're not doing all of those things, start with those basics building blocks first and see how you feel because you may not feel you need to then buy some more expensive things. Oh, 100%.

So would you try it, Ella more expensive things. Oh, 100%. So would you try it, Ella? Great question. No. You're so like me. And everyone's like, do you actually take much? I'm like, you'd be amazed. I take nothing but vitamin D.

Yeah, me too. And then I use those omega-3 drops. Yeah, and omega-3. Some vitamin C when we're coldy. I know it takes some proof, but for gut health, which again, we'll talk about this because we've had a few questions, has loads of research and proper papers behind it.

There's new data we can talk about. We should definitely do that one episode. Yes, absolutely, because it's amazing. It's an amazing, amazing product. But anyway, I just feel like my life is so busy, I don't need to add in things that I don't need. And I'm just not interested enough in my gym performance. I said I'm really enjoying exercising,

but I'm just not interested enough in my gym performance. I said I'm really enjoying exercising, but I'm just not interested enough in building muscle to want to take something that, you know, and you were saying like ultimately that sort of product is ultra processed and they normally have flavorings, et cetera, added to them. And I just don't, I don't really feel like I need that in my life. Yeah, not for us, but I appreciate that it's beneficial for my athletes or for those of

you that work out better than we do. That's a great way of putting it. And I think that was a great summary. Okay, and then we're moving on to our last part, which is our listener question. And I thought this was a great, great question from our listener. And they were referencing the fact that last week we were talking about 70% of children's diets coming from ultra-processed foods. And they're basically curious about what exactly counts in ultra-processed food at UPF.

But I'm sure they're not alone. Some research from last year showed 77% of British consumers were aware of ultra-processed foods. But I think not everyone understands exactly what we mean by that. And I felt like this question summed that up. She said, hello, long time follower and podcast listener here. So thank you for that. Great question on your podcast from last week, where it referenced a study saying that 70% of children's

starts are coming from UPFs. What is the definition of a UPF in the study, i.e. is it anything made in a factory, e.g. a can of chickpeas? I don't know why I said e.g. instead of, for example, yogurt, slice of bread, et cetera. I find the stats super scary. And when I shared it with my partner, he was like, well, everything of bread, et cetera. I found the stat super scary. And when I shared it with my partner,

he was like, well, everything counts as a UPF. So of course, most calories are coming from it. I just wondered if you could clarify what the definition is. Links to the studies and the show notes would be great as well if we can do some more research. Love your work. Love the new podcast.

Embrace New Zealand. And I just had my mother-in-law bring me a bunch of D Mooseley balls when she came. We love you. We love that. Rhee, will you talk us through maybe the NOVA classification system? Because that's really the foundation of understanding what is and isn't an ultra-processed food. But just for your kind of reassurance, a can of chickpeas is not. Yoga and slice of bread can be and cannot be.

Yeah, exactly. And there's no one universally agreed definition. So please don't worry. It is really confusing. And that's why I've been delving into my new book, The Unprocessed Plate, because it is really, really a minefield. So Nova was developed in Brazil. Carlos Monteiro and his team were

looking at the state of the population and diets over there. And they found a way of classifying food and showing the ratio of ultra-processed versus minimally processed. So if you start at the very bottom of the processing industry, the world of manufacturing that Ele knows very well, and that's minimally processed foods, and that includes fresh or frozen fruits, veg, grains, meats, eggs, and basically plain dairy products. So they might have been washed or picked from the tree and pasteurized, but they haven't got an extra ingredient.

That's your key there to number one is there's no ingredient added. Yeah. So there's no ingredient list for these things. It is a bag of carrots. It is a carton of eggs. It's just yogurt. Exactly. It's milk. And that is it. It is a single ingredient list product. Which is what most of our diets used to consist of. Then welcome the amazing development of technology and you've got processed culinary ingredients. So these are things, this is category two, that we use in cooking. So we don't really have them on their own. We add

them like salt, butter, sugar, olive oil is classified here. And this doesn't make these items bad either. These can be really healthy ingredients to add to things and really easy to cook with. Flour is a good example. Yeah, items you would put in a cake essentially and make a cake from scratch with. Then you get number three. Now we're moving up the chart a bit here and this is when things sound contentious but again they're not because things like your canned beans, your chickpeas, often they'll have something added to preserve them. But that could just be water in the can. It could be an extra bit of salt within that water within the can.

But that does classify as a processed food. Fresh bread made with simple ingredients, cheese, homemade soups, all of that. The easiest way to think about this, and basically one, two, and three are just not problems. No, they're fine. And three is a lot of supermarket foods. All delicious yellow products fit into three. They're things that essentially you could make at home using homemade processes.

And I think that's something that people don't talk about enough. Agree. And I think, for example, the shape of a pop chip is really interesting. That's actually an ultra-processed food. It doesn't matter what the ingredient list is. You cannot do that process at home.

Basically, this is things like, as you said, soup. Or it can be a kind of high-quality meal that's been pre-prepared. It can be some mousses, some granolas, bars, those sorts of things. But it's used. You could replicate it at home with the same ingredients. Or as you said, it could be chickpeas in a can.

And those can be yogurts with like actual strawberry added to them. Yeah, it could literally just be that. So it's things that feel familiar. It's the easiest way, I think, to think about number three, because I think that's the more confusing category before you get to number four, which is where the problem's slightly more so. Because there's so much nuance in number four, Ella. And that's what I want to delve into

in the next book, and that in number four, ultra-processed foods have saved lives. But these are the ones, like baby formula is an ultra-processed food, that's saved literally hundreds and hundreds, I couldn't even tell you how many people are probably giving formula to their children. Myself included. Exactly, and me. So these are highly processed products made with industrial ingredients. They're the ones that have the emulsifiers, the artificial sweeteners, the preservatives, the flavor enhancers, the modified starches, which individually on their own are actually

very clever inventions by chemistry and science and all of that sort of thing. But if you pack them into a packet that's hyper palatable, the shelf life, it could sit on the shop for like a year. And of course, sugary cereals are in this category, a lot of unhealthy items because they often come alongside high salt, high fat, high sugar items. And these are the things like the processed meats, the carcinogens that we discussed earlier, a lot of soft drinks. So ultra processed foods essentially in most cases, there's a few exceptions like bread

and you know packaged bread or baby formula that we use, but most of them are just not the healthy items you want to have every day. With exceptions I have to add that in there. Yeah, don't stress about what you have on occasion, but they're not what you want your diet to be made up of as a general rule. And I think for me the easiest way to think about the differentiation between three and four is can I make this at home? And if you can make it at home and someone else has just done some lifting for you on

a busy week, that's great. It's likely fitting into number three. If you cannot make it at home, you can't make Pringles at home, you can't make diet coke at home. Can't make the sweets that we love to eat. Exactly. Then ultimately it's an ultra processed food and we all eat them in some cases and there's nothing wrong with that.

It's not about terrifying people, but ultimately as a general rule, you want to be choosing ultra process free as the basis of your diet. And it is incredibly important. And there is increasing amounts of evidence as to why we want to do that. But so but is it the so you can go back to your husband and say, no, it's not true. Everything doesn't count as a U.P.F. So it shouldn't be that most of our calories are coming from it. In fact, it's just the heavily industrialized products that don't really resemble food.

And I have been to many factory and you wouldn't believe some of the things you see. I still remember there was some meat mimics and it was just this, it looked like cement going round and round and round and eventually being made into kind of quote unquote burgers and sausages. And once you've seen it, you just can't eat that. It's so far from food as we understand food to be. And it's been really interesting seeing the kind of manufacturing side of it. And it's really quite shocking.

But I think the other thing, and we should go into it in another episode because it's long, but the thing that I've been really shocked by and that people aren't really I don't believe talking about and I think isn't very transparent to consumers as well is like the processing aids involved in things and that's something we look at a lot like often actually to create something 10 processing aids had to be added at a point in the manufacturing process where ultimately you cannot do that at home. It's not possible. It's food science. Exactly. You need all sorts of things to help you along the way and it takes food that's

just so far from its natural form. I think ice cream is such a good example, isn't it, of ultra-processing food at its finest of the complexities of food science to keep it cold, keep all that sort of thing. But anyway, I hope that's helped answer your question. It's a really, really good one. And it's something obviously with my book coming out, I'm really passionate about and Ella's so passionate about because you do such a good job with Deliciously Ella. You keep them all out of the bars. My favourite things. Yeah, we just want to help people choose less ultra processed food and ultimately,

as I said, the thing for me is the bigger the company gets, the clearer it becomes you don't need to use them. And I feel really proud of that. Well done. So anyway, thank you guys for listening. As always, we'll now be back on a Thursday for the extra scoop so you can get more of us. You can learn more, you can feel more empowered. And thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you for your feedback. Again, just a kind of quick request, please rate it, review it, share it, follow on your socials, subscribe, follow, whatever you want to do. Give us some love, some interaction. It means everything.

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