The Wellness Scoop - Building Resilience

Episode Date: September 4, 2018

In this refreshingly honest episode, Matt and Ella talk to Holly Tucker, MBE, about what it’s really like starting a business, finding your why, overcoming hurdles, imposter syndrome, fear of failure, and their top pieces of advice. From hitting rock bottom to building an award-winning business, this is a story of passion and resilience.  See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hi, everyone, and welcome to the third episode of Delicious Yellow, the podcast with me, Matthew Mills, and my wife and business partner, Ella Mills. As founders of a small business we've learned to appreciate just how difficult it can be, the resilience you need to handle the never-ending ups and downs and seeking strength when the world feels like it's collapsing around you. Today we're going to be looking at finding that inner strength, learning from mistakes, getting inspired and the importance of listening to your gut instincts with a hero of ours holly tucker an amazing female entrepreneur and founder of not on the high street and holly and co i really admire the way she champions small businesses women in business and that sense of creativity in the workplace which is such a big part of delicious yellow so we don't always see the the whole story behind success Lots of companies and individuals look like an overnight

success when the reality is anything but so. One of my favourites quotes was from Steve Jobs, who said that it takes 25 years to be an overnight success, which I'm sure is and is just so true. Holly, first of all, welcome to our podcast. And thank you so, so much for coming on today. We're so thrilled to have you. Thank you so much for having me. So let's jump straight in. Can you tell us a bit of background on your story and how you felt Not on the High Street, what it is today? Well, absolutely. And I couldn't. Steve was right.

You know, the reality is that overnight successes don't exist. I think back to right at the seed of the idea of Nottingham High Street and actually it was a vegetable wreath and I wish it was a sexier story than this. Well we like that it's got vegetables. There you go you see very on brand for today it's a vegetable wreath and this vegetable wreath was created in my one bedroom flat in Chiswick. I'd just gone through quite a disastrous time in my life. My nickname was, and sort of still is, I'm a bit older, Holly Hurricane. And so I had lived a life that was pretty busy. I had left school after my A-levels, where I got two A's and a D in business studies. That's the ironicness of it all.

And I went straight into work. I went straight into advertising. So I had the University of Life. And that was at about 17 years old. 17, I started this incredible world advertising after the 80s. And I was one of the youngest account managers in London looking after accounts such as L'Oreal. And it was a whirlwind. I came out of that period of my life, I went and joined Condé Nast. I then went on to a dot com company when the dot com boom was there. And after that, I found myself getting divorced at the age of 22 with a brain tumour. And so life took a turn. And it was at that point that the vegetable wreath was created.

I wanted to go back to my artistic soul that hadn't really surfaced for a long time. And so I started making things. And I thought to myself, well well I live in Chiswick there must be a fair a nice lovely Christmas fair that I can sell my wreaths at and I found out that there wasn't and at this time I was freelancing to pay my way and I was on my own now so I had to make money and be you know self-contained and so I decided that there wasn't a fair. So how hard could it be if I created the fair that then I could sell my wreaths at? So I created the first Chiswick Christmas Fair. And I got the best trestle table because obviously it was my fair. And I sold my

wreaths. And by the end of this fair, I pulled together 90 stalls all at the Chiswick Town Hall. There was this just this electricity and people were discovering how great these small businesses were. And how did you find the small businesses to come to the fair? Oh, I would spend my lunchtimes and evenings, I'd look in all the magazines, I'd look locally because there were still independents on the high street then. I would look at something I liked in a magazine, I would then contact them, I'd created my whole media pack as well. And I'd send them out at night, I'd use my works post, sorry, work to actually send my media packs out, I then get my brick phone out at lunchtime, and I would sell the stalls. And basically that developed. So the end of the fair,

I knew that I had caught something. It was electric. When you put customers together with small businesses, it was amazing. I ditched the wreaths that night. I couldn't bear them anymore. I told my father that he needed to create a new spreadsheet. He's always been my financial director. We're going to go into the events business. And so I spent the next two, I ditched the job, spent the next two years creating events. And I didn't sell myself, but I would find great small businesses. And after two years, it nearly killed me. Because every time it rained, or every time, do you know what I mean, something would happen out of my control, Johnny had a football lesson or something like that. People wouldn't come to the fair. So I needed a

new platform, I needed a new medium that wasn't the roof of a town hall. And so that then became the idea that we needed a 24 hour day fair, housing small, incredible businesses, but that roof needed to be the internet. And so that is the beginnings of the idea of Not On The High Street. It wasn't called that at the time. It was just a concept of bringing all those incredible small businesses under one roof where it didn't rain and that was the beginning of the story. And one of the things that kind of really struck me there

and it's a conversation we have a lot, Matt's very confident. I'm not. I'm a talker but I'm actually quite nervous about a lot of things. And, you know, listening to you say, you know, you reached out to all these small businesses. And I then also read, I've been stalking Holly for the last couple of weeks. I'm learning everything I can about her. That you sent an email to an ex-boss of yours out of the blue to be your co-founder and not on the high street. And one of the things that really inspires me listening to this as someone that's very nervous and I literally close my eyes and like scream sometimes when I send out an email that I'm

scared of what someone will think. How did you kind of push yourself to put yourself out there, to put yourself on the line, to have people reject you, to have people laugh at you and think that's a silly idea? Where did you always have that confidence or was it something you kind of had to cultivate and dig quite deep to find um it's an interesting question actually because I I would say that well my nickname was Holly Hurricane so I wasn't shy in retiring okay so I I knew I possessed that but I think the way I look at sort of your comfort zones and that sort of area is I look at what needs to be done. So it was actually not in the high street needed to be built, because there were small businesses exiting that high

street, independents no more. So how were we going to support small businesses? A platform had to be created. So I slightly look at what needs to get done and then retrospectively work out what role I have to play as part of that. I'm just a vessel. I'm just a human being who needs to do X, Y and Z to get to the next stage. And for anyone who maybe can see what they want to be done but doesn't have the confidence or uh belief in themselves to actually just get started and i

think in in anything it's just always taking that first step what would be your your best piece of advice for people to be able to actually just take that first step because i think the same once you've taken that first step steps two three four five can can flow a lot easier it's um interesting it is I get asked it all the time firstly if you have an idea or you want to do something well let today let this single second right now be the moment you start because ultimately you just have to think you're starting is it sending an email or picking up the phone or anything like that just start right this second now because it doesn't have to be a big um you know a band's not going to come out and play for

you that you started you just must start the next thing would be always think what is the worst thing that can happen? So just face into it. I'm going to get laughed at. That's, you know, everyone's going to think my idea is absolutely crazy or I'm going to fall flat on my face and no one is going to like this post or no, whatever it is. If you think about what's the worst thing that can happen, face it. Actually, sometimes I will say it out loud. I'll look in the mirror. I will say it out loud I'll look in the mirror I'll say it out loud then I've now dealt with it and guess what the worst thing that

can ever happen doesn't ever happen yeah I think it's I think we've really learned that as well and sometimes you think something's going to be the best thing that's ever happened for delicious yellow or something else or it's gonna be the worst thing that's ever it's going to destroy us and usually things always sit within that kind of gray area that that middle ground it's never quite as good as you think it's going to be it's never going to be quite as bad as you think it could be and i think it's one thing that you know ella and me talk about as well as ultimately the worst someone can say is no and that's that's absolutely fine and usually um i think this is something that we've really really learned over the last uh three years of doing Delicious Yellow together is that some of the absolute best things that can happen to you are the mistakes you make.

And you learn so much more from the mistakes and the failures than you do the successes. that starting a small business or doing an adventure or doing something that feels slightly outside of your comfort zone or is outside of your normal life today as long as you're signed up that it's going to be a really really choppy difficult path but you're completely accepting of that and you're willing to ride with the punters and you're that that's the starting point yeah i think also there's something um this word comfort zones used quite a lot. I actually don't believe if you feel completely and utterly out of your comfort zone, 100%, I would not recommend starting a business in it. So I think that we have this sort of this idea now, push yourself out of your comfort zone. This is a great thing. Now, I understand public speaking or doing something you don't want to do. When you talk about the core of your company or the core of your dream, if it is 100% outside of

your comfort zone, it's not probably you. Yeah, so interesting. And so I think that we have this, this, this, this, maybe it's the whole Instagram thing. I don't know what it is social media. I believe actually, I'm the most in my comfort zone. I am 100% me and my business are at one. Now, yes, I'll push myself to do things that I freak out about and I'm nervous about, but the core of my business is at peace with myself. And so I think that you need to look at that when you think about your dreams

or if you're starting a business. I love that. And I to you need to look at that when you think about your dreams and and and or if you're starting a business I love that yeah and I know I have to ask this actually a question for both of you Matt reads um and researches more than anyone I've ever come across and on both sides whether being any kind of tools um kind of books or videos or people um that have particularly resonated with you um and things that have kind of really inspired you or got you thinking in a really interesting new way to, as you said, kind of feel comfortable to think, OK, I can get to the next step. So I think I think to be to Holly's point as well, I think in anything that you do, you have to absolutely love it and you

have to be passionate about your subject matter. And so and I think that you have to absolutely love it and you have to be passionate about your subject matter and so and i think that you have to live with a deep never-ending sense of curiosity about whatever it is that you're doing or you're working in i think that i think from any people that we've been fortunate to meet who have been greatly successful in whatever field it is they've always been deeply deeply curious about it and always trying to learn they've never ever thought that this was something with a finish line they've always thought that it was just a really long journey that they're on of complete discovery and trying to be a sponge and learn as much as they possibly can a couple of books i've always loved it's a it's a book i go back to every now and again it's really it's quite

a kind of it's it's quite a basic book it's called scaling up by verne harnish most of reddit 40 it's just it's a kind of it's just something i like it's just got great little tips it's just something good to just good just to to jump back into every now and again and we like the book start with why yeah we really like the book start with why by simon sinek holly what what is it? Yeah, I was actually going to say that book, Simon's Start With Why. It is a, I think that that's one of the most profound questions that you can ask yourself about your dreams and about your business that you're creating. The why, why are you doing this? Why are you even thinking about doing this? Who are you going to help? So businesses today that I believe in and I believe

are going to be the future will be the businesses that have the why completely sorted out. They are there for a purpose outside of themselves. So when I think back to Not On The High Street, if I think about Holly & Co, if you think about what you're doing, the why is so powerful that actually everything else comes along afterwards. So many companies at this point in time that we are consuming from have no why. I think they get so focused on the product that they're selling. It's the product or the price or the delivery. Exactly. all great things the soul isn't there but also a product can be cool for six months and then it goes and i think what your why does is it roots you in a

much longer term purpose of of why your business should exist i've got a couple actually pulled straight from that book in front of me and google's why is to organize the world's information. Nike is to empower everyone's inner athlete, Coca-Cola, even to refresh the world to inspire moments of optimism and happiness. And it's it's these bits of everyday purpose that I think the core of the business has, and why consumers keep coming back to us because they believe it's something more than just a product where another competitor can just come and get you. And that sense of loyalty that you buy and you can get from people when you have a true sense of why in your business is more powerful than any promotion you can do or any other marketing activity you can do. It's just rooting your business in something that has real meaning behind it. The interesting thing is businesses who truly believe in their why.

Patagonia, you know, actually companies that actually that seed grew into a strong tree through the why. And you can always tell businesses that plop it on afterwards or, you know, it's been a C-suite meeting that's gone on and they've just ticked that box but i do think that today i i absolutely agree but i do think that that there are a much wider group of stakeholders in a business than they used to be which may just be the founder of the business or the shareholders in a business i think the stakeholders much more now are the all the employees in the business all the potential potential customers. You can get the planet with everything that we're confronting at the moment. And I think there was a recent stat

that 80% of consumers want brands to make the world a better place and will pay more for brands that they believe are making the world a better place. So I don't think... But that's with the millennials coming through, becoming one of our strongest groups of consumers. In the past, that was not the case.

And that's a great transformation. And I think to succeed now as a business, you can only start with why. And if you don't, then you might last six months, you might last, get lucky, last a couple of years. But if you don't have that inner sense of greater purpose, then I think it's going to be short term. Yeah. So one of the things we wanted to talk about as well, because I think going tapping back into that idea of kind of an overnight success is actually not a thing. I want to talk a little bit about kind of hurdles and challenges, which I think is really applicable, whether you're thinking about starting a business, you've started a business, you're part

of a small business, or you're just interested in getting to the next step in your career. And just on a kind of of I hate to be a generalist on this one but I think it's often an issue first and foremost with women and I think one of the places where it really came to light was in um Sheryl Sandberg's Facebook COO's book Lean In um which talked a lot about imposter syndrome and the effect on that and she had this brilliant quote which I know resonated a lot with me which was fear is at the root of so many barriers that women face fear of not being liked fear of making the wrong choice fear of drawing negative attention fear of overreaching fear of being judged fear of failure and I know

those are things that personally have held me back a lot and that sense of imposter syndrome sitting in the room thinking I'm not smart enough I don't know enough people will think I'm an idiot and I know you talked about this that it was something you kind of resonated with at the beginning of your journey and seemed to have really overcome. And I think it would be really interesting for people to understand how did you do that? It's definitely something I'm still working on. Yeah, I think it's, isn't it wonderful in this day and age now we have a name for everything. I know, a category. Because, you know, again, 13 years ago, there was no name for everything. I know, a category. Because, you know, again, 13 years ago, there was no name for the business I was trying to build. The word entrepreneur was not even used. Imposter syndrome,

I mean, you know, no, that wasn't something that you spoke about. And I just think it's a wonderful thing now that we are at a time where business, we can talk about business and we can talk about imposter syndrome in exactly the same point and I have not got over it I have imposter syndrome of course I do um I think if you believe in the future and you're a futurist and if I can see the next 10 years quite clearly um of course I have imposter syndrome because what I'm building in my mind I have not the foggiest of how to do it. But I've embraced it. And I think I've embraced it by, A, it being outed. You know, we're now talking about it.

The fact that, you know, it's said that 70% of women suffer from it. I do think it's quite a female-based feeling. And one of the ways I have helped control it is to be prepared. I'm a dyslexic. I find speaking quite difficult sometimes, even though that's quite odd. I'm quite a private person. But it's about being prepared and accepting it so if I am going to go and do something that I am feeling absolutely that I'm winging it in a very big way I will make sure I have prepared myself with how do you pronounce the people's names I'm going to walk into the room with um what are their kids names um so I think back to when we raised money for the first time you know terrifying process well hello I mean imposter syndrome I mean I could have had the t-shirt the cap everything for that we went in two blonde women bank said no there was no more money coming through we had to go and raise money through VCs that was the only thing there wasn't crowdfunding in those days

the word as I said the word entrepreneur wasn't even used. There we were, two blonde women carrying our little bags full of personalised dinosaur t-shirts into VCs rooms where they would just very happily tell us, you know, grey-haired men, that their wife did all the shopping at M&S and were we trying to start a crafts business and it was just the most wonderful experience now I look back at it it was horrific at the time and of course we had imposter syndrome but when we got that first meeting with someone who was potentially very interested you know they got personalized books all all hand bound on each of their places with their names written in it and a little bit of detail about themselves. And they couldn't believe that we knew that much about them.

So we were over stretch, you know, we were going over the top in some areas to try and cover up what we didn't know. Fake it till you make it. And fake it till you make it. And so we put on, we didn't even have a first year of accounts and we were trying to raise money. You know, they would talk about the board seats. We didn't even have a table. So it was that sort of thing of you've got to go in. And that's where I think that it's now really a superpower of mine.

So I talk about it in a way that I love it. It makes me probably the best version of myself. As I said, if you're looking at the future and you say, well, I've never raised money before. So what was the worst that can happen? Actually, you can mess it all up. Okay, that's fine. It's almost one and the same, isn't it? What's the worst that can happen in imposter syndrome? Yeah, it's actually another, we're talking about books earlier, another great book that, and someone who I respect deeply is a guy called Dr. Peters, who has worked with a lot of olympic athletes he has a book called the chimp paradox and he talks about how basically yeah it's great and you have this chimp which is the emotional

part of your brain which is squeaking on your shoulder exactly you can't do this and tell you all the reasons why it's not and you actually have to try and get through and he gives you tools to get through to your rational brain to be able to talk to that. And actually what it comes down to is that if it's not going to kill you and all you can do is your best at the end of the day, then you're going to be okay. And once you can get through to that rational part of your brain to be able to reason with that,

then you get into the place of strength and where you can actually go and do these things and where you can feel semi-comfortable in uncomfortable situations. Absolutely. And then I think on that, you know, that idea of kind of getting comfortable when actually things do feel a bit uncomfortable. Obviously, things do look like an overnight success, as we said, but they're not. And I'm getting back to my stalking of you.

Read about some of the challenges you face in your business. And I know that there was one moment in particular, you said you were going to quote literally on death's door in 2006, where you'd run out of money, your dad had remortgaged his house to support you, you'd exhausted all your small business loans. You said you were paying your team their wages using credit card checks, and you were kind of just a few weeks away from closing. You you know how are those moments where it feels like you know what this is it and a lot of people would say this is too much I'm failing I've got it I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead I'm gonna close now how do you dig deep at that point and how do you say

no I'm not gonna quit I am gonna get through this and and somehow find a way to get get through it it was it was um you know that that moment that you're talking about my parents said read more I am going to get through this and somehow find a way to get through it. It was. It was, you know, that moment that you're talking about, my parents had remortgaged. Sophie's parents had put the last drop of money that they had in. We were four weeks away from Nottingham High Street never existing. It was very, very bad. And actually, I remember my father on the train saying to me, and we were going up to a funeral. I mean, how bad. And actually, I remember my father on the train saying to me, and we were going up to a funeral. I mean, how bad is this story? Generally, it made it even 20 times worse.

Said, you know, darling, you need to now, we need to really look at this because if this keeps going, you might have to sell your house. And so it got to that point where, you frank was a policeman and frank's your husband frank's my um partner yeah and he had a minimal wage and i wasn't being paid any money and we had a tiny baby and so it was very very real i think one of the things and during my career um i've now learned to embrace this more as a way of looking at your dreams or your business but it was not um necessarily liked um when you go out into the business world and if you refer

to your business as your child because and now I love it and now I believe it and I talk to everybody about it ultimately this was a business that was beyond ourselves. So we've already talked about that purpose. We knew, and by the way, at this moment that it was dying, it was doing the best sales it's ever done, because it was Christmas time. And suddenly, we had this little bell that we would ring on every sale. So it would go ding. And once it would only ding every three days, and we were only taking 10% commission. I think we made about two pounds, okay? And then suddenly we weren't able to ding the bell enough

because it was dinging all the time. And so you can imagine we're dying and yet it's doing the best it's ever done. And so at that point in time, what would you do if it was a child? You wouldn't give up. So there has to be a way. And if you just keep saying that, there has to be a way.

And that's what we did. It's actually a great piece of advice as well, because, you know, not in the high street, it's only 13. Now, if I looked at my business as a little teenager, my son's 13, because obviously my son is always the same age. It's not on the high street um holly and co is only two so when you start to look at your businesses that way you start to sort of forgive okay we're still in teenage years here or we're just crawling and you can accept that sort of um paternal maternal um feeling and it's a great it's a great way of when you need to dig deep yeah i think it's an amazing amazing story and i think it is it's it's and it's i think a lesson for anyone starting

a business is that typically you know if you start a business you're trying to raise money and it may be raising money from the bank typically they'll want that secured if you own a house against your house and so which is what we did yeah which is what what we did we had a security against my flat and um we it's just something you have to be signed up for and you have to i think if you're starting a business you're going to take risk like this you have to be signed up that you're willing to to risk it all because if you're not willing to risk it all then why should anyone else put their their their money into your business too however great you they may think your idea is so i read a brilliant quote while we were researching the podcast where you said that you'd wish you'd

listen to your instincts more and if you had understood the importance of your gut then at some sliding door moments you would have taken a right not a left and that you now you say anyone can tell you anything but when your gut is telling you not to listen and to go with your instinct, that's your internal compass and it will never let you down. Can you expand a bit more on that? I know it's something that us in Delicious Seattle,

we feel like some of the worst things that happen when we haven't followed our gut instinct. And you do, you just have this internal sense of direction that you just need to follow as a founder. Yeah, it's interesting because I follow your gut has been used, you know, forever. It's kind of cliche and kind of cheesy. But it's I wish it was. I wish I had a better one.

But it's not. It's but when you really look at it, it's actually incredibly beautiful. Your gut is your compass. And when I now look back at 15 years of building business, every single wrong move was, I knew it was a wrong move. It's different times, you know, if you're building a business, and it becomes a success, and you've got a lot of people, and you've got a lot of managers, and you've got a lot-suites, you know, CMOs, CFOs, all these sorts of things. You want people, you employ people that are better than yourself. There's a reason for that. You're looking for their expertise. So there is a real grey line where you tread between empowering people and being more dictatorial yeah so actually trusting your gut and when actually

your gut is saying this is wrong but someone else is saying well i can tell you why it's right here's all the data points here's all the reasons why you should do it and your gut still says i still don't believe it it's when you're it's when your gut and the data conflict that it gets difficult and that's when i think you most have to go with your gut you know you hope that your gut and the data conflict that it gets difficult. And that's when I think you most have to go with your gut. You hope that your gut and the data align. So you hope the gut of what you feel a product is and the way the sales going, they align. But it's when they conflict that that's when you really have to be. And it can be anything.

It can be data. It can be expertise. It can be so many things. And I used to say, but why do you know that and I say it's unexcellable yeah you cannot put it in a spreadsheet my darlings I'm afraid it's not going in there it's called magic and very and this is where I want to try and change the conversation on business I'm confident to be able to talk about magic in business. And that is something that we do not talk about. And business being a force for good. And business being a force for good, or that

founders are the life force, or there are these words that we don't use, we don't talk about it. And actually, this is where your gut instinct or that compass can direct you. I'm my fullest version of myself right now when I sit here with you because everything is at peace. My compass is not going haywire. You can imagine the needles going around and around and around. But when we are moving in directions

that aren't right for us, you know, building Holly & Co again, you know, I said never again and here I am doing it again. Sometimes that magnet for the compass, it will go haywire. And that's when you know, stay away from whatever you're looking at. Yeah, we found ourselves in a similar position. I think one of the most interesting times for us was we, in kind of two weeks or so,

you'll see we've done a kind of whole change to our branding, all our packaging. We've been working on this now for about 18 months or so and we knew we needed to start doing it and we went and we talked to these brilliant people so talented so experienced this agency have been working for decades and decades on the best best brands but we knew deep down what we were seeing wasn't our brand but that fear of saying my gut my compass is telling me no when you're listening to people who are so much more experienced than you so much kind of smarter in that area for want of better words so you kind of slightly voice a concern and then you think no I must be wrong and we got kind of nine months in and spent money we didn't have on a project only

to pull it completely and it was so interesting because pulling it completely was one of the most scary things we've ever done and yet the next day as you said that sense of relief was unbelievable even though there was then the sense of oh god gotta start how are we gonna pay for it and your gut is ultimately it just comes back to values doesn't it and i think that in anything that you start having really, really clearly defined values that can then, as you take more people and hopefully can then use their gut with whilst utilising these values can guide them so that as you grow an organisation, you can all be pulling in that same direction. Just for the last couple of minutes, we wanted to come on to a few kind of quick fire rounds. So first of all, this is always something I'm interested in. You've a lot you put a lot of energy out how do you take care of yourself any kind of top things that you come back to um I take care of myself by not crucifying myself with this work-life balance nonsense so um I take care of myself by being fully happy.

And that for me is building Holly & Co. I'm with my work family. I'm with my family. It's all beautifully at one, actually. And that's the one thing that I would say is how I will look after myself is not saying I have to do this out of work stuff. I actually will create a life about my purpose and just live in it peacefully. And so that's my fullest version of myself is at home and at work. And so that is how I look after myself. Brilliant. And I read the worst piece of advice you think is when people say it is what it is and we are where we are. Is that true?

Yes, it is. I think it's the ultimate cop out. And I feel that's just because someone did a bad job or didn't think straight. If we did everything rationally, there'd be no explorers. There'd be no innovation. There would be nothing. Absolutely. Yeah.

And I just I just think, you know know it is what it is is is a terrible um reason um to do anything or agree more yeah okay how about the best piece of advice though i would say it's um better to have a hole than an arsehole matt loves that one i love that that's an apple quote actually that was a steve jobs quote that when it comes down to hiring team members right yeah that's when it comes down to hiring team members, right? Yeah, that's when it comes down to hiring team members. And that's when it, you know, actually, there's a beauty in starting businesses and being, I think we utterly underestimate the beauty of being nimble, like a chameleon, changing with the tides, being able to move things that, you know, one hour you can make a decision, the next hour it happens. And I think that there is something very, very beautiful about that. So I think about staying small can actually be the key to winning the race and having that ability to be agile. And so actually, you know, really have the whole because it will make you work harder you know do you not think that hiring

people is a solution um actually the more nimble you can be the smaller you can be the quicker you can move um and it's what all the big businesses want to be um they want to have all those uh qualities yeah i like that it's like it goes back to the analogy if it's easier to turn a minivan around with seven people in than it is to turn around a cruise liner with 2000 people in it. Yeah, absolutely. And then is there ever a right time to start something to make a change that we want to see in our lives? Or is it just go now? For me, Holly Hurricane, it's go now. I believe that, as I said, one of the most asked question is, I want to start a business, but I just don't know when. And so I say, I will put out my hand and shake the hand and say, well, well done.

You just started your company. And it's just that moment. Permission. Just permission. OK, really? And I go, yeah, really. Oh, my gosh. We're just celebrating the launch of your company.

And actually they say, OK, yeah, that's right. OK, so we're celebrating. Anyone listening today? Yes. Now is so we're celebrating anyone listening today. Now is the moment. Right now, congratulations. So what's the one practice you live by every day to feel your best? And this is a question we ask all our guests to finish the episode. I, yes, I would say I do a number of things,

but I would say that my walk along the river, I will take my dog, Mr. Mudley, and we will go for a long walk along the river. I'll listen to my favourite podcasts and I will reflect. And just giving myself, it's about an hour, just giving myself that hour. I believe founders are the Duracell batteries of companies. And so I need to be fully charged at all points. And so just that hour for me I come back a full

Duracell battery fantastic well Holly thank you so so so so much for coming on today it's been amazing to talk to you and we so so appreciate it thank you thank you for having me and if you have any feedback on this episode we would love to hear it so please do review it please do rate it and share any of that feedback with us. And otherwise, I hope you can tune in for our next episode and definitely subscribe. There'll be a new episode coming out for you every Tuesday. Thanks so much, everyone. And this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads. Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more.

That's B-O-B at L-I-B-S-Y-N dot com.