The Wellness Scoop - Cold Plunges, Morning Routines & The 3 Bursts of Ageing 

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

In this week’s episode of The Wellness Scoop, we’re diving into some of the most talked-about trends and headlines in health and wellness. We look at the new science around ageing reveals we don���t age steadily — but in three distinct bursts at 34, 60 and 78. What’s happening inside our bodies, and what can we do about it? Are cold plunges actually hurting your muscle growth? We break down the bold claim that they reduce gains by 66% — and what the research really shows. Olive oil shots are the latest TikTok wellness craze — promising better digestion, fewer cravings and glowing skin. But do the benefits hold up beyond the buzz? We also look at the trend of morning routines.  Plus, we discuss a major new report on alcohol and breast cancer risk, explore whether pets might actually make us happier than our partners, and ask whether wellness routines have gone too far in the pursuit of “optimization.” And in our listener question this week: how do you talk to kids about “unhealthy” food without creating shame or fear? Recommendations this week: Ella's film picks: We Live in Time and Wicked Signs by Laura Lynne Jackson Reign - a gripping TV series Live Show Tickets - ⁠https://cadoganhall.com/whats-on/the-wellness-scoop-with-ella-mills-and-rhiannon-lambert/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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loved ones tomorrow. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca. The Dignity Memorial branding is used to identify a network of licensed funeral, cremation and cemetery providers owned and operated by affiliates of Service Corporation International. Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And we are your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. And that's why we've created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal.

A hundred percent. And we love that you guys are feeling so inspired and so empowered. I wanted to shout out a listener message from Alice which just brought so much joy to us both. Alice said, just wanted to say how much my whole family is loving the Wellness Scoop. My sister and I always debrief after every episode and just bought tickets for the 14th of June. Cannot wait. Woo! We've also got my parents into it, which I love. And tonight my 61 year old dad asked me what on earth a hot girl walk is and if he's allowed to go on one. Tell your dad 100% hot girl walks are for everyone. Get out there, listen to something that inspires you and just walk

off your day. I learn so much every week and really feel that a mental weight has been lifted off. I no longer have to do all the mental gymnastics that comes with figuring out what's fact and what's fad and can instead focus on delicious nourishing food and moving my body in a way that makes me happy. Thank you both so much. See you in June. And I just love that because that's everything we're about, right? Just nourish yourself, look after yourself, empower your health in ways that feel delicious, juicy, great, empowering, inspiring, and not overwhelming. I love that. June, my dad's bought a ticket as well in June.

Oh, I love it. Yeah, my mom's coming as well. Yeah, yeah. We'll have to get Camilla and my dad to sit together. 100% from very fans. If you guys haven't got your tickets yet, we'll pop the link again in the show notes. 14th of June, the Wellness Scoop Live. A big community event. It's going to be fab. It's going to be good.

So Ella, what have we got coming up in today's show? Okay, so first up, we age in three dramatic bursts. Apparently the new science that suggests your body speeds up the clock at three distinct ages and what that could mean for how we approach our health span. Cold plunges. This has been everywhere for a long time, but do they kill your muscle gains? Olive oil shots are having a real moment, do they live up to the hype? We're going to unpack that trend. Plus the rise of wellness morning routines and are they getting a little bit extreme? Pets versus partners, the surprising research showing our furry friends might make us happier than our relationship.

Oh yeah, no surprise there. Yeah, sorry hubbies. Or our salaries. Plus an important conversation around alcohol and breast cancer risk with a new global report urging women to rethink even moderate drinking. And then this week's listener question is all about how do you talk to kids about unhealthy food without creating guilt, shame or fear around what they eat and I think that speaks to a society as a whole in the way we talk about this kind of food. So loads to cover and just as a note if you hear any noise we're in a new space again today.

Rhee, how are you? What have you been up to? Do you know I've had a good week. It's been interesting to say the least, but my amdrams, you know I'm doing my musical theatre show on the side still in the evenings. It's going very well, but I've been in a state of sleep deprivation for like a week and a half now. And a little shout out to Lucy and the cast because we were on stage Ella and they put you in points of where you're meant to be in a big dance number. And I think I just zoned out.

I think I was just stood there asleep on stage. It was like that. And she just kind of pushed me into position as she walked forward. It's like this nudge and I looked over my gosh. Thanks Lucy. I think she knows that I'm juggling a lot right now, but I really appreciated that. So big out to my Amdram fam. And then I thought this would make everybody laugh. I had the cat on the roof at one in the morning. So there I am in the middle of the night, pouring rain. Another thing to add to my sleep deprivation mode,

trying to get a cat who is sat on the top of the roof off with cat treats, leaning out a window, holding my husband's legs, you know, so he doesn't fall down to the ground. That is it. I have no other exciting updates apart from a cat on the roof. I love both of them. What I love about them is that they shatter the illusion of perfection. You know, we're always here to say like, what you see online, you know, it's not real. It's

just snapshots. And I think to your point, like everyone's doing their best, but life happens. It's part of it. And then we just look after ourselves as best we can around the edges of that and I still love that you're pursuing a hobby because I think that's something that's so many of us myself included would benefit from massively. It is hard when you're tired to motivate yourself to go to rehearsal till 10 o'clock but I always benefit from the social, the love, the music. But Ella tell me about your week. We celebrated our nine year anniversary this week, so that was really romantic and nice.

Yeah, it feels like a long, long time. Did you go out for dinner? Go out for dinner, exactly. The kids love Bluey, and so they call it a romance night, so I think that's what they are. Do you celebrate the day you met, or the wedding anniversary? Wedding anniversary.

Ah, interesting. But we've certainly done a lot in the nine years we've been married. So Ella's relationship, I'm sure everyone that follows Ella knows, was just a total whirlwind. Total whirlwind. Moved in together after a week on our third day. I think three months later, we had a dog, had started the business together and Matt had quit his job and were engaged and then within the year were married, had opened our first cafe, were in the works for the products starting. So I think talking about putting all eggs in one basket and I was not romantic growing up, I actually didn't really believe in marriage. But this is like a Disney film.

Totally, when you know you know and I have to say ten years in, it's ten years since we've been together then I could say it has worked that instinct was right they celebrated nine years. I think it's wonderful congratulations. Oh thank you, I really appreciate that and I have two recommendations for us this week. Both movies, you guys have probably seen, maybe lots of you have watched it but there were loads of reviews about a film called We Live in Time. It has Andrew Garfield and Florence Pugh in it. It is phenomenal. So I do need to watch it. I did see. It's a tearjerker.

We both watched it on the plane, but separately from one another so that one could concentrate while the other one kind of had eyes and ears on the kids. And both of us sobbed relentlessly. Like I could see the cabin crew looking at our family being like, are these people okay? Mum and dad have been crying for hours. So it must have looked really, really odd. It's a long flight as well. It's a long flight. And you've got both parents just in floods and I was like fully in floods of tears. Anyway, it's I'm just really in my personal life really trying to focus on kind of being more present, appreciate each day, stop looking ahead because the future is so uncertain and just really try and enjoy every minute as best you can.

That's so true. And this film just spoke to us so beautifully. So I just couldn't recommend that more. And then I had to tell you that I watched Wicked, the musical film, didn't think I'd be into it. So into it that I've watched it three times in a week. I mean, I didn't think you'd be into it. I thought it was just me and my musical theatre world. But you loved it. Obsessed, obsessed.

And I think you know what it was and the reason I wanted to recommend it, not because I'm suddenly like some movie buff, but because the world is so uncertain and it has been so uncertain for years now, but it feels like the news is terrifying, overwhelming, deeply frightening. And it's so easy to get sucked into all of that, let alone all the kind of social media noise, the pressure people

have a work, whatever it is. And I think in that, there's something so much to be said about finding like real feel good things and sitting down with no phone, with a snack, watching Wicked, it's just really feel good. And I just think it's so as I said, it's so easy to be sucked into the bad news of the world and the stress of life and all the rest of it. And I think, yeah, as I said, I'm trying to be more present, more grateful, more in the moment. And I think these things that just make you feel really good, but equally kind of totally distract you. There's so much to be said for that,

for your kind of mental wellbeing. But you watched it three times. Three times. Even I haven't watched, like I went to the cinema and watched it at home, but even I haven't watched it three times. Yeah, twice on the plane. Wow, Ella, I'm so happy now we can chat wicked things.

We'll go see the show. What have you got? I really want to, by the plane. Wow, Ella, I'm so happy now we can chat wicked things. We'll go see the show. What have you got? I really want to, by the way. Yeah, I will definitely take you to the show. My two recommendations this week, let me find the book. I went over my friend's house for a play date with the kids the other day. And I actually very sadly lost a friend coming up to this time last year. Anyway, I was chatting to my friend,

she said, oh my goodness, this book is incredible. It will give you faith in the world. And it's called Signs, The Secret Language of the Universe. And it's by Laura Lynn Jackson. And it was a New York Times bestseller. And it's about opening your mind to the other side, regardless of what you think. You can tell I'm struggling to get the words out here. about opening your mind to the other side, regardless of what you think. You can tell I'm struggling to get the words out here.

Will you think about heaven or if there's another place? Oh, I didn't think I'd get this emotion of talking about it. But I think the book's really important because it's really empowering to know that you can feel connected and that there are ways of knowing that people are still watching over you, which is really beautiful. So I'm gonna kind of just say

that's a good book recommendation. And then onto something completely different, which is totally off topic, but I'm Philippa Gregory obsessed. Oh, I love her. Do you as well? Love her. My whole life, I just have the entire, I was obsessed with the Tudor period of history.

You do? Yes. I love all that kind of thing. King Henry VIII, our producer, well, is like, what is going on? He's like, how have you flipped from morbid books to the Tudor history? But we love the Tudor history. And I was obsessed with that TV show, The Tudors, that were based on the book. And then the other Berlin girl came out. Anyway, this is about Mary, Queen of Scots.

It's called Rain, spelled R-E-I-G-N, as in the reign of a monarch. And it's nothing to do with the period. The clothing's not the same as that period of time at all, but it's really quite gripping, and there's nothing remotely real about it, which takes you away. Like you said about Wicked,

it takes you away from what's going on in the world, and it just transforms you to that period of life. And I just love it. So Reign's a good watch if you're into that kind of stuff like me. Oh, I'm so into that kind of stuff. So I'm gonna take you up on that. I think the overall recommendation this week

is to give yourself some time away from your busy life, away from pressure, away from overwhelm, and try and switch off with something that makes you feel good. So what do we have in the headlines that matter today? Okay, so we put in headline one and I turned 34 in a couple of weeks, so this really freaked me out. But guys, we age more rapidly at 34, 60 and 78.

So some new research has come out about this concept of three bursts of aging and it's referring to this idea that the aging process doesn't occur kind of smoothly and gradually certainly that's how I always imagined it but actually in distinct phases marked by very accelerated changes in biological systems and this research suggests that these three big bursts happen around the ages of 34. So it's six weeks time. I'm going to be very different. Do you know what, though, because obviously I'm older, I did notice a difference at 34.

But I didn't know at the time. It's only now that I look back at 34, I'm like, oh, that is when I noticed tiny change. But it's not scary. Panic stations setting in. OK, yes, it's 34, 60, and 78. Be very curious of anyone else that's just been through any of those three markers if you had noticed it like we had. When I say markers I'm not saying I suddenly felt old at 34. What I noticed was the eye lines and things like just a

little bit more but then it could just be because we're sleep deprived parents or you're just very busy in life and I reckon it must happen for people at different points in their 30s but it is like that first moment of oh I'm not early 20s anymore and it kind of hits you. I have to say I've noticed it massively over the last six months so maybe I've had it tiny prematurely I hope it's not going to massively accelerate. And though guys we're not we're not being negative about aging it's just how interesting that there's three rapid points in your life.

So interesting, but I think also, and you know, maybe it's a conversation for an extra scoop because I think it is an interesting conversation. I do think, especially in the world today where you're faced with your image so often, that actually getting comfortable with quite a serious change in how you look, I would say for me personally, it's mildly uncomfortable. And equally on the other hand, I'm personally not keen to do Botox and other procedures just for me personally. So I need to sit with being uncomfortable with it and invest in great face creams. But I do think it's like it's a marker of a different

chapter of your life. And whilst this different chapter is great you are getting older. And you know it's not just about age lines so I noticed, because I'm one and a half to two years older than Ella, and I noticed I got more moles and I remember when we went to that Necco HealthScan place and he said to me when you are pregnant or as a woman you suddenly get more moles because your skin changes I can't describe this correctly because I'm not a qualified dermatologist but your skin changes and you do grow more moles and some moles are genetic moles that you have in the same place as your mum or your dad and that you'll always

have in the same place on your body and I noticed that because my boys have got moles on the same place that I've got one and it's so. And then some of them grow through different ages and growth spurts. So it's not just aging and how you look with wrinkles. It's all sorts of things. Totally. It's very much what's going on in the biological systems in your body. But to Ree's point, I think it's just interesting to this new research showing. Again, it also just speaks to how complicated our bodies are, but that the aging process is more complex than previously thought

with those three distinct periods of accelerated change, interspersed with periods of actual relative stability, which, as I said, I think it just has interesting implications to how we approach aging, maybe try and kind of mitigate some of the effects, not just physically. Like joint health, it must be things like how you feel. So I notice when I sit down for a long time now,

my body's desperate to move. Like I feel that itch. And I didn't used to have that, like an aching feeling. It's really interesting. So yeah, for example, there's also a study in nature medicine, found that aging process, again, it's not a steady decline, but rather a series of surges in molecular changes. And so it's looking at things like protein levels

in the blood, et cetera. So research is still ongoing, but I think an interesting thing for our audience to think about is that actually, again, it shows how complicated your body is, how brilliant your body is, but actually that, yes, we're not just day to day aging and kind of slightly declining in biological function.

We're actually having these moments of really speeding up. So maybe those moments as well to really look after your body a little bit more in order to support it as it's going through so much change. Yeah, 100%. And that's what we're here for. We all want to age well. And how fascinating. So look out for those three, those three age markers are around that time. And it does actually lead us nicely into our headline number two. I feel this was everywhere Ella. Cold plunges reduce muscle growth. So there was a huge hype about you know exposing yourself to cold temperatures. I've never quite been down with

this because I find it really difficult and I did try once Ella to do a plunge pool at the gym. Have you done it? I did it once. Personally I hated plunge pool at the gym. Have you done it? I did it once. Personally, I hated it. Me too. I hate being cold. I couldn't get my shoulders under. Yeah. I kind of scream this pathetic scream.

I'm not brave enough. No, I'm chummed out. So it says while some research suggests that cold plunges can actually help muscle growth, the 66% reduction claim is not widely supported by scientific evidence. Studies do indicate that post-exercise cold water immersion may reduce long-term muscle gains basically in mass and strength and it does interfere with key processes involved in muscle protein synthesis.

So it's basically saying that we now know it's not going to help you repair your muscle and repair and extend that growth you want, but the extent of this reduction and its specific impact can vary. So we've got the reduced muscle growth. The research shows that it hinders this and it's called hypertrophy. Anyone that's a PT out there will know that's the growth of the muscle after resistance training. It also interferes with the mechanism, so the anabolic signalling pathways, which is crucial for the growth of protein, protein synthesis,

lots of little signals and chatting going on between helping your muscles grow bigger. And then the benefits that were always there is that, you know, it might not be ideal for muscle building, but cold plunges can reduce soreness and inflammation and improve mood. But what I remember, Ella, is doing nutrition for footballers at premiership level at the start of my career. So I remember them combining cold and hot therapy and that was really effective. So it's so interesting how people suddenly just focus on the cold. You know, there's this huge thing, you have to do an ice bath. How many people have we seen online with ice baths in their garden?

I know, I've seen a lot of ice baths in the garden. And even though I hate it, I have been tempted. Same. I don't have anywhere to put one right now, but tempted to get one because I feel, oh, I must be missing out, I must be doing it wrong by not doing this. Maybe I should wake up at 5.30 in the morning too and take an ice bath.

Yeah, I mean, I had one experience. I did that cryo chamber where you go into that cold room once and it was in a gym in South Ken and you have to dance to the music and cover your face, you know, and your hands with the gloves and you have little dance to the music and cover your face, you know, in your hands with the gloves and you wear the little shorts and things. And it didn't feel as cold as I thought it would. It was at minus 28 or something silly, you know, probably way more than that. I can't remember, really, really cold. And I just didn't enjoy it.

I didn't last the full three minute goal. I only did two minutes. And I decided from that point onwards, no, I prefer a sauna. Yeah. And just being gentle with yourself on chiro therapy. Very, I say is interesting. It's also absolutely tragic.

But in this whole conversation we're having about kind of wellness, going too far and trying to rein it back in and focus on your simple building blogs. I think it is just worth noticing that these kind of extreme treatments can be dangerous. And actually, when we were recording this the day beforehand there was a really tragic reminder about some of these wellness trends just becoming actual real risks and I was not necessarily facing into that enough and a 29 year old woman died in Paris after a suspected nitrogen leak in a chiro therapy chamber at a very very high engine. The same thing I did.

Yeah, exactly. And then the incident also left a client in critical condition. As of recording, don't know what the outcome of that will be. It will probably be clear by the time this comes out. Also, it forced the evacuation of 150 people from the building. The gym's since been shut down. Investigation is ongoing.

Not the first time chiro therapy's made headlines for the wrong reason though. In 2015, someone in Las Vegas also died after using a chirochamber therapy alone. We've seen this from some cold water as well, exposure. Again, there have been deaths from that. So, I'm not trying to fear Mungo on the flip side, but I do think that, as I said, these are such engaging content, and it has some research behind cold therapy being helpful, not loads.

It may hinder your gym performance, which it might be a reason lots of people are doing it. Equally, it can be really dangerous. And also in the case of like a chiro therapy chamber, incredibly expensive. I mean, it was, I remember I was offered it as part of a work partnership. So I couldn't even tell you how much it was, but it wouldn't be something I choose to pay for anyway. But now I've heard that story and I think, oh, my goodness, that could have been me.

I think it's such a reminder, like you said, things like IV drips out there. The risks are there. But because they're normalized by seeing people do it everywhere on social media, I also get FOMO. I think, oh my goodness, should I be doing this ice bath? You know, I see people jump in every morning and say, yeah, now I feel amazing, I had a really cold shower today. But I will flip it and say, we need to do next week

an episode with saunas in it, because the research benefits coming out about saunas are apparently better and there's this big ice versus fire debate. Yeah and there's a huge amount of research about saunas so we'll pick that up in our trend section next week because I think it's very very interesting and yeah lots of interesting research on saunas and actually being very very beneficial. I would also be just so interested to get our listeners feedback on this because I think we're both in the same place

where we talked last week a lot about this kind of pressure to self-optimise, to be perfect, to be on this hamster wheel of perfectionism, maximising, trying to self-improve all day, every day. And I think in that, that content is super, super engaging and that you do start to feel this pressure of should I be doing this too? And I'm just so curious how many of our audience are feeling that within the health and wellness space,

where eating carrots and lentils and going for a hot girl walk on your lunch break doesn't feel like enough, and you feel you're not doing health properly if you're not engaging in some of these kind of jazzy extras. And I'm very curious if you feel the same. Because I sometimes feel like, because I can only work out once a week, and I've always been so transparent about that. And Because I sometimes feel like, because I can only work out once a week and I've always been so transparent about that. And I know that's even a good thing for me. It's still a good goal.

But I feel like, oh, well, I can't do a pushup, therefore I'm not strong enough yet until I can do this one thing. But it shouldn't be like that. It's just not fair. The pressure we put upon ourselves all the time in every aspect of our lives. It's too much.

I totally agree. And we feel like we need to go to various boot camps instead of taking a walk. But as I said, very curious, please give us your feedback because it's something I'm becoming acutely aware of is this pressure to feel like you're kind of almost needing to perform to be healthy.

Yes, it's a performance. And I know you guys feeling that too, because yeah, I think a lot of it feels quite performative now. And I've said so many times, like, I understand it because if you think about a video online or headline, how much more interesting is ice baths versus carrots? One's novel and one's certainly not,

but equally the research on carrots is stronger. And the ability to fit it into your life is stronger, like crudites and hummus winning in my book. And I'm just very curious whether you guys feel that that's not enough to some extent because it's not really ticking the kind of wellness. Content curation. Totally.

Vibes online. I'm excited to quickly share with you all that you can pre-order my new book, The Unprocessed Plate Now, and Ella and I discuss this all the time that the world of food and nutrition is currently full of conversations surrounding ultra-processed foods. And this is for good reason and in my book The Unprocessed Plate I dive into what UPFs actually are, explore the latest evidence on how they impact our health and most importantly how we can reduce our reliance on them without overhauling our entire lives. And remember there's a lot of nuanced guides, there's a privileged conversation, lots of things here. But I want to cut through the noise and offer actual practical solutions. There's incredible diagrams to make the science more accessible

and there's 60 amazing recipes, family friendly, everything from breakfast, weekday dinners, quick lunches, simple swaps and snacks and things you can have on the go that makes such a difference and trust me whether you're a busy parent or you're just trying to reduce these in your diet on your everyday workload this book is here to support and empower you to get back to basics with food without the pressure of this perfectionism. So if you want to feel more informed and inspired in the kitchen, then you can pre-order your copy of the unprocessed plate now. It's out June 19th. And back to me and Ella.

Our next headline everybody is something that we should all be very aware of and I think it's really, really significant in the fact that we all know alcohol is not good for us. I think everybody knows that, you know, your body sees alcohol as a toxin, it just wants to get rid of it as soon as possible, but I don't think we're all fully aware of the risks still to this day. And the headline said that women should avoid all alcohol to reduce risk of breast cancer. So a major new report from World Cancer Research Fund in collaboration with Harvard's uni and the Health Research

Institute of the Balearic Islands and they have issued a significant warning alert that they've said that even small amounts of alcohol can increase a woman's risk of breast cancer and this research basically indicates that just one glass of wine per day raises the risk by 9% in post-menopausal women and 5% in younger women. And the recommendation is really clear, women should consider giving up alcohol entirely to reduce their breast cancer risk. Now just to touch on this, if you have someone in your family that has breast cancer, I would say this is really significant.

And even if you don't, you need to be so mindful. And I don't think we should be drinking alcohol every day No, I think it's a really I was really struck by reading this this guidance obviously of actually Recommending that we potentially give it up essentially almost entirely or Massively reduced drinking goes a lot further than current UK and World Health Organization goes a lot further than current UK and wealth health organisation recommendations in terms of kind of more gently limiting alcohol intake. And I thought this was very interesting that nearly 80% of European women were actually unaware of the link between alcohol consumption and breast cancer. So there's this clear link in the research, but a massive gap in public

awareness, which as I said, to me is very interesting. Obviously, very important to say that it's not about drinking and drinking alone. There's also a lot of information around maintaining a healthy way, regular physical exercise, diets rich in fruits and veg, avoiding smoking. I mean, not to trivialize, very important conversation, but I think this comes back to again, this like, cut the noise to feel you need to keep doing these optional wellness extras and focus on this where all the research is in terms of supporting a healthy lifestyle. But I just think it's very, very, very interesting. And again, one of the study's authors noted very clearly that the biggest benefit in terms of prevention comes from adhering to multiple healthy lifestyle choices simultaneously. So cutting back on drinking as per that report, but also the other lifestyle factors that

we just mentioned in terms of the kind of core of a healthy life. A hundred percent. It's a public health message that's missing. I don't think I ever grew up thinking, oh, there's a link between cancer and alcohol. I knew of course about liver damage. I think that's really, you know, hammered into us from a young age and there was a culture when Ella and I were younger of binge drinking at universities and I do think that's died out with the rise of sobriety and the rise of the alcohol-free you know the alternatives, mocktails, all sorts of things which is fantastic but this just wasn't in our spectrum at all. So there you have it.

And in a related study, Alcohol Change UK found that even low-risk drinking, so within NHS guidelines, that's fewer than 14 units per week, and it's associated with increased risk of cancer and heart disease, as well as poor sleep, daily functioning, and the charity's basically advocating for better labelling on alcoholic drinks to communicate the risk. Because I don't remember ever picking up, I mean, I've never been, I'm very rare, I've never been a big drinker, even at uni, because I was singing, but I'd never pick up a drink and look at the label.

No, I don't think many people do. I don't think anyone, like I get a Bailey's at Christmas, I don't think anyone looks at the label on the Bailey's. No, and interestingly, back in early January, the US Surgeon General, who's the US's top doctor, kind of the leading spokesperson on matters of public health in the federal government, he came out and called for risk warnings to be added to alcohol beverages, like labels and cigarettes, following new research that had come out back then that linked drinking to seven different types of cancer. And he was saying the exact same thing. Obviously this study that we were referring to is specifically about breast cancer. But his point there was

again this gulf of information in terms of public awareness of drinking, calling to the fact that the majority of Americans are unaware of this risk, which, yeah, as I said, is very, very interesting. His point there being the direct link between alcohol consumption and cancer risk is well established. Do you know what I think doesn't help is the positive headlines for alcohol. So I understand a Mediterranean diet. I understand that having a really good quality red wine grown in a certain way, within a certain setting, with a meal or something else could be good for

relaxing or reducing blood pressure or that sort of thing you've got the data but we're constantly bombarded with headlines like what's the best alcohol what's the lowest calorie alcohol glass of red wine is good for you to have every week and the problem is they're taken out of context those headlines and actually I mean I don't want to be a killjoy because I love having a glass of wine and bubbling celebrations I'll be doing that this Friday because my son's turning five and I'm really excited to celebrate and I will have a little glass but we shouldn't be praising something so flippantly that is actually just a toxin for our body and provides nothing for us.

Yeah it's a very interesting one and I think it's one of the harder ones personally I find it quite a harder topic to talk about yeah because it's so kind of cemented in the fabric of society. It is, it's society. And we talked about this when we were talking about the rise in kind of no alcohol drinks and a change in kind of cultural sentiment there but there is a sentiment that not drinking is boring. And then you have this clear research where drinking is very, very, very bad for us. And I think my big question is in 20, 30 years, I mean, I mean, a long time from today, when we're looking at some ultra processed foods, when we're looking at alcohol, will our retail landscape like our big supermarkets look very different because the warnings that we have on cigarettes

will start to exist on some of these other things. Who knows? Who knows? Watch this space. On a totally different topic. I'm just reading our next headline, Ella. I love it. It's the pet one. Can your pet make you happier than your partner? Yeah, we're moving from really serious to much lesser.

But that's the fun of the show. Okay, so there was a brand new study that came out in the UK that found that owning a cat or a dog can improve your wellbeing just as much as getting married can or earning new money. So this was researchers from the University of Kent and they were looking at data from two and a half thousand households in the UK and they found that having a pet gave people a three to four point boost

in life satisfaction and that life satisfaction is only measured on a seven point scale. So three to four point move is mega. And that is the same happiness bump, those three to four points that you would get from getting married or wait for it, bringing in extra 70,000 pounds a year. No. Yeah. Interestingly, just one note, the effect was strongest in women and those under 65. And I wonder if that's because we're having this real spike in loneliness in younger generations and the pets combating.

And we know that obviously loneliness is so bad for our health and potentially, yeah, the kind of massive boost is in people who are feeling lonelier and that is now younger generations versus elder ones. It makes sense. I do see a lot more people getting a dog before they have kids now or something like that, you know, before they do it. And I can say on a nutritional perspective that having a pet is good for your gut microbiome. So it exposes you to different types of bugs and that is known and shown in research to be really beneficial. And then you take them outside more. I mean, I'm a cat owner, but I still go outside with my cat. I have a cat lead.

I love that. Cat lead. I love that. Because after my cat was sadly in an accident last year, she got hit by a car. She survived. She definitely has nine lives. The air tag saved her because we found her.

She was wearing an air tag on her collar, everybody. But I got a cat lead so she could get fresh air while she was recovering from her injury in the garden and it meant I got outside more. I love that. Yeah, I mean having a dog definitely gets you walking as you said so you've got the kind of loneliness connection, you've got time in nature, which is amazing. You've got gut health support. So again, a nice illustration of the fact that wellness is very 360. And I believe on a spiritual level, and I do believe animals can feel our emotions. I know whenever I'm down or a bit sad

or just not feeling right, my cat just comes and sits next to me or lies on me or gives me a cuddle, there must be something in emotional support massively. Absolutely. And as we know, loneliness is one of the key indicators of good health. Yeah, so there we go, guys. Yeah, so maybe it's more beneficial to get a pet than it is to get an ice bath.

Or have a husband. Or have a husband. Ella, what is trending in wellness this week? OK, so morning routines. This is a kind of never-ending trend, right? And I'm just gonna preface this with, I really like a morning routine. It does not happen every morning, not even a tiny bit,

but I love to aim for a morning routine. But there was a feature that we wanted to pick up of that was in the Times and it was called, how extreme is your daily routine? And the feature dives into the extreme wellness routines that I think to be honest have massively popularized online and we've all seen and I think again, just to circle back to what we were saying a moment ago

about curiosity of our listeners are feeling the same pressure to kind of do all these things and add all these extra steps into their day in the name of health and wellbeing. To me, a lots of it comes from these types of morning routines. Morning sheds that you showed me. Exactly. And so in this one, it was taking three kind of relatively high profile influencers, people

in the wellness space and looking at their morning routines. All three of them started around five o'clock in the morning and by 9am they'd done red light therapy, NAD plus injections, mouth taping or taking that off from the over night, hyperbaric oxygen sessions, electromagnetic field therapy, meditation, journaling, cold plunges, workouts tailored to their menstrual cycles, supplements customized to their DNA, something called intranasal photobiomodulation which is basically shining light up your nose to stimulate your brain. And I'm not criticizing any of those three women in their individual life.

I think if these things make you happy and they make you feel amazing, it's your prerogative within reason. But this proliferation of the conversation, I think, is the bit that I wanted to pick up on. Because to me, and we've talked about this so much recently, I just worry a lot and again very curious what our listeners think that this is now seen as what wellness is. It costs a fortune Ella. The first thing I was thinking when you were reading off, I don't even know what a hyperbaric oxygen session is. How do you even do that in your house? You know, and then they're saying they're tailoring. Well, what did this photo by modulation thing and then the NAD plus injections

we've discussed, you know, they cost a fortune as well. This is expensive and you've got to have a lot of kit to do this sort of thing. And I would prefer to get an extra hour sleep. Maybe even two. Yeah, definitely. A hundred percent. I think again, this isn't wellness, is it, at all? This is stress. Yeah, that's a really interesting way of putting it. For me, it's pressure, but I think it's also stress in the pressure.

And I think it is, again, we've talked about it last week, but I'm quite maybe single minded on it, in this concern about this self-optimisation. And I'm very vulnerable and open earlier in the episode, like I'm very conscious of aging and definitely, you know, want to look after myself and feel good in myself. But there is a sensible balance of also just enjoying life and kind of going with the flow and doing what you can to feel great, but equally not putting so much pressure on yourself that you have like a three- hour routine before the day starts.

And like Ella said, if this works for you, that is actually really cool. But I think it's just not accessible to so many that it can, like I said, it feels very overwhelming. My concern is that, and then again, this is why I'm so interested to hear your guys' thoughts on it. My concern is that people are starting to feel that they're doing wellness wrong. If they're not doing this sort of thing, which is so popularized on TikTok and social media, etc., because they're not engaging in the trends. And so they feel like they're not really participating in wellness. But as we've seen from all these leading scientists and researchers and amazing data analysts, the research in terms of what wellness actually

is, is getting a pet. But no, I mean, it is your diet. It's the kind of foundations. It's your stress. It's your sleep. It's these kind of more basic things. And I worry that it's all just becoming too intense. And even in this article, they're talking about sleep tracking rings and having a kind of essentially, I think it's scored out of 100 and this person was getting kind of 97, 98 scores. So again, now we're putting pressure on ourselves to sleep perfectly. And I know sleep is vital to health

and I'm not devaluing some routine around sleep, leaving your phone downstairs, maybe doing a quiet meditation before bed, doing things to help you actively unwind to get a better night's sleep, massive advocate for that because sleep's so crucial to health. But I'm just worrying that we're now getting competitive and optimizing everything.

And is it fun? It's not fun. It's almost like orthorexia, the pursuit of cleanness in the eating disorder territory. It's almost like this pursuit of perfection in wellness. And it's very all or nothing. What happens if you do have one bad night of sleep? Is the whole routine then off the next day? Yeah, and am I almost like morally a bad person? Yeah. Because I've got it wrong. Oh, that was a listener question that we had so many people saying they loved our mention of the morality behind food and we should definitely delve into

that more because I feel like there's moral compasses with lots of things that we could potentially discuss. But you know, I consult for on the side of nutrition, a health tech app called Rio. And it's the one of the things they always say is we're building the car whilst driving it. Because tech and all these wellness trends are so fast, it takes so long. The studies are slow.

So like with the cold therapy we discussed, they were all the rage last year, even in lockdown, I think everyone was doing it. And now suddenly the research is coming out saying, hang on a minute guys, this could kill you, or this is bad. And it's not all as cracked up to be. Yeah, and it takes time.

So what can we say? I don't think it sounds very fun. Have you got any kind of morning routine? Well, it's just the green tea. I think I said that last week I wake up and I cannot start my day without my green tea in a mug and to be honest I would like to try a bit more of a morning routine but my focus is very much the children and I don't put myself first and my problem is I get to bed too late to wake up earlier so I

need to work on my nighttime routine first so then I can have a morning routine. That sounds very sensible. Have you got any like daily non-negotiables? The green tea is definitely the only thing I definitely need to start my day with. My day does not start unless I've had my hydration in the morning. My non-negotiable would be... that's a really good question Ella. Dark chocolate, blueberries, food food wise, cannot live without them every day. There's not a day in this whole year where I haven't had dark chocolate or blueberries

every day. Isn't that funny? It's quite expensive but you know, it's my one look. The carda shop is full of the food for the kids, the meals I'm going to make for them. The one thing I get for myself are those two things and the berries can be frozen and I eat them every single day. How about you? I try with a morning routine.

You do, you're good though. You wake up early. Yeah, I give it a good go. Definitely didn't do it last, this morning. I just find the days are so busy, and the mornings for the kids are so busy, that having even 20 minutes or so, where you're kind of prioritizing yourself a bit,

and carving out a bit of calm before whatever unfolds really helpful. And generally I do a five to 15 minute, depending how much time I feel I have, meditation or breath work, which I find very helpful with someone who's a real over thinker. I'm fascinated by this because I just don't think I could do that. a real overthinker. I'm fascinated by this because I just don't think I could do that. Breath work is very helpful because it's so collided in terms of if it feels very new to you.

And my brain just runs at a million miles an hour and I get really, I overthink everything. I get way too concerned and het up and anyway. And I find it a very helpful way to kind of set my mind up for the day. And I'm definitely happier, calmer person when I do it regularly, not necessarily every day. And then I make coffee and we just drink coffee,

my husband and I pretty quietly. And it's so nice. And then by the time the kids are awake and the day unfolds, I feel ready. I mean, you have to be changed before they're awake. Oh my goodness. Yeah, if I haven't showered and got changed before they wake up, it's just game over.

It's just not good. That's really good. So I think my goal now is going to be to try and do some breath work in the morning. Maybe I'm going to set myself that and put my phone away at bed. Just five minutes makes such a difference. And I think, yeah, as I said, I'm quite an advocate for morning routines, but I think I just was also much bigger advocate for taking the pressure off ourselves and I think that's definitely the kind of overarching Do you think you're a night owl or an early bird? Early bird. You're an early bird. Yeah, so I think I am a bit of a night owl and I wish I wasn't.

I wish I was an early bird, but I've got better since having children. Guys, trend number two, olive oil shot seller. Yes, I've been seeing these around for a little while, but I noticed in the last couple of weeks, Women's Health, Glamour Magazine, Evening Standard, loads of big publications talking about it. So we thought we'd bring it today. Glamour, for example, had the headline,

I tried olive oil shots for a week and the effects were immediate. So are olive oil shots a wellness elixir or another fad? And basically, if you haven't seen it yet, the idea is you take a shot of extra virgin olive oil first thing in the morning and the claims are it boosts energy, improves gut health, people talk about lining your gut, reduces cravings. As I said, Glamour UK, Women's Health both put this two-week trend to the test, also saw it in Vogue, literally everywhere. Those writers were trying it for two weeks and they did both personally report things like better digestion, reduced bloating, feeling fuller for longer.

But first of all, let's start with the fact that olive oil as a general food has loads of research behind it being beneficial. I'd love to dive into that with you. I have to say, don't know where you sit. I spent a couple of hours researching this and cannot find a single shred of evidence that having olive oil on an empty stomach first thing in the morning has the benefits.

And there is also, as you'll tell us, I'm sure in a second, huge amount of evidence to show that having olive oil with food is very beneficial. So tell of evidence to show that having olive oil with food is very beneficial. So tell us, give us the 101 olive oil. Well, it doesn't lie in your gut. You know, so interesting you hear these things. I mean, I'm a huge extra virgin olive oil fan. I love it. I use it with everything. I cook with it constantly. And it is liquid gold. It really is. That's the phrase scientists use. They love olive oil. It's the most researched oil in the world. It contains tons of what we discussed. I think it was in last week's

episode that we do Omega 3. Yeah, Omega 3. And you know, olive oil contains these really amazing monounsaturated fats, so many incredible powerful compounds like polyphenols, basically like antioxidants in oil, because most people know the word antioxidant and it supports our heart health, it supports our brain health but all that research is with food like we said it's as part of the Mediterranean diet. Now fun fact is that there are some vitamins that we call fat soluble so these are vitamins A, D, E and K and when you combine certain vegetables with a fat you're able to absorb those nutrients

in your body whereas if you eat vitamins A, D, E and K without a fat carrier your body can't get them effectively. So what olive oil essentially does is enhance the absorption of your food at the same time as those powerful components and what's so interesting is that a lot of people worry about heating oil you know all those types of conversations but there's some research now that says that the antioxidant potential inside the oil itself counter acts any damage from heating the oil so you're not actually you don't worry too much about that sort of thing either. So I would ultimately say anti-inflammatory

you know because of the healthy fats within it like I've discussed last week if you switch back to last week's episode we discussed inflammation a lot may improve gut health is a vague one Ella lots of people talk about gut health and taking a shot of oil in the morning I don't see how that improves your gut health guys remember before things get to your gut they have to go through your stomach full of acid and food needs to be broken down and then when it reaches the small intestine it's absorbed into your bloodstreams it's kind of a long way to travel before it can just it doesn't just sit in your gut you don't just take

a shot and it's gonna line and lie there in your gut nicely and smooth everything down but I love olive oil I just cannot tell you that taking a shot is a good idea guys it's so energy dense as well like it's a fat remember most people don't need more fat in their diet actually they just need to replace the saturated fats from animal produce with plant fats so if you're adding more fat with an olive oil shot something else has to give in your diet somewhere else it's like an exchange if you see what I'm saying so if I had a shot of olive oil I probably wouldn't then cook of it in the afternoon because I knew I've already had quite a lot of calories, essentially energy, and it might make some people sick. It's quite

a lot, especially if you've got gallbladder predisposition or something. I think that gives us such a great overview which is that the celebration of olive oil is well justified and we should all be consciously including it in our diets on a very regular probably daily basis because it's so so good for us It's such a great food to have both in and of itself and to support the absorption of other vitamins from other foods that you're eating But there's no need to shot it as part of an elaborate morning routine You should start your day of water or hydration or that herbal tea that green tea You don't want to start your morning with a shot of fat. But this is very similar, scarily so.

And I love olive oil. I'm not dissing olive oil. I'm a huge fan. But it's similar to the whole keto butter thing, isn't it? Putting butter in your coffee. Yeah, start in the morning with butter. Or those shots of MCT that people used to take. Do you remember?

They appeared, it was like seven years ago, they were everywhere in the juice bars and things. I tried the trend. I thought I should drink coffee with MCT oil in and then fast for hours because then I'd be like superwoman. Really messed with my period, felt awful. Just anecdotally speaking, personally, was awful for me.

Yeah, because it's not good. You're getting like this hit of cortisol going up, which we need to discuss another time. Yeah, we do need to do cortisol coming up for you guys. But yeah, I felt shaky. And it was, yeah, it was again, it was just coming back to trying to control something versus enjoy it, which to me is this again,

like liberally get that olive oil on your salads. Like wake up in the morning and be kind to yourself and be gentle and have like a nice morning routine that sets you up to feel good in the day. But take the pressure off. You don't need all these added extras. How expensive is that? Can we just point out how expensive olive oil is now? And also it's important to get it in a dark glass jar because and keep it in a cool place. You don't want it exposed to direct sunlight or heating up. And to have a shot of that, I mean, a little

bit goes a long way in a pan. I think it's a waste of a wonderful ingredient to shot it actually. And I think it costs a lot and I don't think that's accessible. Yeah, I think that's been the theme of that episode. I've like, take the pressure off, find things you enjoy and just do them gently and kindly. OK, I loved this listener question for today. This person said, my question is, how do you talk about unhealthy foods? Now this listener was writing in in the context of her son, but to me this is so relevant,

whether you're talking to children, colleagues, friends, family members, I think it's relevant to everybody. But she said, if my son asked about smoking, I can say it makes people ill, but I appreciate that food is more nuanced. I understand it's important not to label foods as good and bad, smoking, I can say it makes people ill, but I appreciate that food is more nuanced. I understand it's important not to label food as good and bad and I don't want him to feel shame if he chooses to eat the biscuit, for example, but it really pains me to see him

sometimes chomping away on things that I know are bad for him. Oh gosh, very emotive. Before we answer this question and Ella and I share our feedback on it, please remember food is different to everybody. There is no right or wrong way to parent. You decide and there's lots of fear-mongering that you know whatever you say to your child will give them an eating disorder or you know if you say this then they'll always have a bad relationship with food. It's really difficult to navigate the space and there is no set rule. But what I will say is you don't need to be so fearful of actually explaining that food isn't healthy and that's a real delicate

balance. Like I tell my children for instance, isn't that a delicious chocolate bar? And he'll say, oh can I have another one? I was like actually if we have too much of it then we might get a poorly tummy because our gut bugs don't like that and it depends what age child you're referring to or in the language that you use but I do think it's really important to say too much of a good thing like you could have like 10 avocados would make you sick just the same as having three Mars bars would you know and avocados classified as a nutritious food and a Mars bar isn't so anything in excess isn't good. So I

think I would answer that by saying every food is okay in certain amounts and when we need it for but try and look at some foods as not everyday items in the same way and my kids use the word strong now it's so interesting little my little list is two and a half and he always says mommy blueberries make me strong because he sees me in the water I'm in it broccoli makes me strong and it's getting the narrative of positive things around food in you don't need to focus on the negative just say this is really delicious this is so tasty wow I remember when I had this at that party

or wasn't that cake amazing now let's eat that for your birthday and you don't need to go into it anymore But we just have a little bit. What do you think hella? It's a very difficult balance It is a very difficult balance And I don't think that there's a perfect way to do it by any means whether you're talking to adults or whether you're talking to children And I totally agree the whole kind of demonizing good or bad is very, very complicated. Food is way more nuanced than that because life is way more nuanced than that. And enjoying cake at the birthday party is critical,

in my opinion. I agree, oh my goodness. As part of a kind of societal construct as opposed to whether or not it's deeply nutritious. And so as a result, also, I don't think you can classify it good or bad, because it's kind of what's the context in which you're eating it, what's the rest of what you've eaten. But I think as with any adult kind of listener on the show,

as with my children, obviously, you're going to use slightly different words. As the way I talk to myself, it's much more focused on what does this give me? So eating lots of nutritious, plant-rich foods, etc. will give me lots of energy. It will help me concentrate really well to your point. It will make you feel strong, you know, to kids. It helps you grow. And, you know, I'll be super clear with them, like, if you don't eat enough of these foods, specifically fiber, kind of fruit and veg, you'll have a sore tummy. You won't be able to do a poo. And they kind of understand it now.

They have to learn the hard way sometimes as well. Like, they will overdo it sometimes and they will know because they will feel that the next day. What's funny though, you say about cake, because it just flashed in my head. I had a friend that had a cheesecake for a wedding, not a cheesecake as in a cake made of cheese. Oh right. Because they don't like cake.

So it's okay not to like, it was like five tiers of like a big round cheese. Wow. I know. There's only so much cheese I think you can eat if you're a cheese eater. But yeah, so food is so unique and individual to us all. And culturally speaking, let's not forget,

some foods and different cultures also have halos of religious beliefs around them. And that adds another layer of complexity around explaining food to people. So there really is such a moral issue around food that I think everybody just, let's be honest, any parent speaking to kids, they just want to do what's right for their kids.

Yeah, I think in a wider context though, the thing that I, as a closing thought, think's interesting is that sometimes I also think we're dancing around it too much, which is that ultimately, as we've talked about today, there are some very serious consequences of poor lifestyle choices.

I'm not trying to say anything is anyone's fault. I don't want to be too reductive in it. But ultimately, a chronically bad diet, a lack of exercise, lack of sleep, etc., huge inflammation buildup in the body over time, is so clearly linked to a significant number of diseases that I think we also have to be honest about the fact that like, yes, the one Mars bar won't do anything, but your foundation of your diet shouldn't be that every day. Shouldn't be that. And I don't, I almost think we're kind of too scared of upsetting people

to some extent and making people feel criticized for sure that we're not being honest about the fact that like, yeah, you shouldn't eat as much of that. I know it's not easy to change, but that's actually not a good idea. And I think with my kids, that's the kind of approach that I take is making sure they're enjoying the birthday party and all the rest of it. But also being pretty clear with them at home. Those foods are not going to help you be healthy, essentially on holiday. My eldest, he always wakes up, can I have an ice cream for breakfast this morning? I'm like, no, you can have an ice cream after lunch today.

Like, it's like those delicate balances of, I know we're on holiday, but I'm not actually gonna compromise that starting the day with an ice cream is a good idea. Have one later and enjoy it. I think you're right. And I think Ella and I are at a position now in our life and our career with experience that we're confident in being able to say that. But if you'd rewinded the clock to Ella and I are at a position now in our life and our career with experience that we're confident in being able to say that.

But if you'd rewinded the clock to Ella and I being asked this question, maybe what, five years ago, when all that talk about intuitive eating came out and all that scaremongering noise. I would have danced around it. Yeah, me too. And said, oh, but you do you. Yeah. And yes, of course you do you to some extent.

Because there was a lot of focus on shaming that type of conversation, but look where it's led us. So we're here now. Delicate balance between kind of encouraging disorders eating and orthorexia and fear mongering and making people fearful of food and on the flip side, not saying enough clearly that actually your diet matters. And so I think trying to strike the balance between those two is inherently incredibly difficult. saying enough clearly that actually your diet matters. And so I think trying to strike the balance between those two is inherently incredibly difficult. Exactly.

But if you have any other questions like this, for the live show, we're also going to be taking some questions. So save them up as well if you're coming on June the 14th. And keep sharing. We'll keep reading. Keep reviewing. We love hearing from you.

And these listener questions have really got us on our toes, haven't they? They have. And take the pressure off yourself. Do things that make you feel nourished and empowered and inspired this week. So thank you for listening everybody, have a great week and we will see you back here on Monday. Bye!