The Wellness Scoop - Crash Diets, Raw Milk & Declining Brain Power

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

In this week’s episode, we dive into the viral return of crash diets—from Vogue’s 1970s wine-and-eggs plan to the wider culture of extreme restriction. Why are these outdated ideas resurfacing, and what do they say about the wellness world today? Raw milk is everywhere on TikTok, praised by influencers and wellness personalities. But is it really a nutritional powerhouse—or just a risky trend in disguise? We explore the facts, the fear, and the politics behind the hype. New research suggests we may have reached the peak of human intelligence. Are modern lifestyles making us less focused and less capable of deep thinking? We unpack the science and what it could mean for our future. We also take a closer look at the wholegrain debate—are they truly a health essential, or have they been overhyped? We break down the benefits, the drawbacks, and why refined grains shouldn’t always be the enemy. Plus, Ella shares her latest updates from New York, Rhiannon reveals her verdict on sweet vs savoury breakfasts, and we answer a listener question on whether a sweet start to the day can still be balanced and nourishing. Live Show Tickets - https://cadoganhall.com/whats-on/the-wellness-scoop-with-ella-mills-and-rhiannon-lambert/ Recommendations this week: Substack: A good replacement for doom-scrolling - a good place to find interesting articles The Women by Kristin Hannah - Ella's book recommendation this week Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

By 2050, new cancer cases are projected to rise by 77%. It's why the Princess Margaret is reigniting our commitment to transform cancer outcomes in a quest we call Carry the Fire. But we can't achieve this alone. We need your help. Together, let's carry the fire for a world free from the fear of cancer and give every cancer patient brighter tomorrows. Donate to the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation at carrythefire.ca Where's your playlist taking you? Down the highway? To the mountains? Or just

into daydream mode while you're stuck in traffic? With over 4,000 hotels worldwide Best Western is there to help you make the most of your getaway, wherever that is, because the only thing better than a great playlist is a great trip. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Book direct and save at bestwestern.com. Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And we are your hosts.

I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in this wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. So that's why we created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. Welcome guys as always if you haven't listened to the show from last week you might not have heard but tickets for the Wellness Scoop Live our big one-off event in central London on the 14th of June went live and they are flying in the first day or so we've sold over half of them so if you

are wanting to come get on on it, get your ticket. It's going to be absolutely amazing. All the details are in the show notes or just Google the Wellness Scoop Live, Cadogan Hall. And we cannot wait to see you there. It's actually unbelievable. Cadogan Hall is huge and it's in central London. It's beautiful.

And we've got so many things planned for this show that we don't get the opportunity to do as well when we're just doing these podcasts recordings So it's all your favorite usual things that we include plus a few fun extras Exactly in a Q&A and then Rhee is going to be doing a one-off special deep dive into Her years of research into ultra processed food Obviously, it's such a hot topic at the moment in the world of health and wellness ever evolving. And we are going to get an exclusive little deep dive into it with Rui, which will be the second part of the show, which I cannot wait for.

Absolutely crazy, because the book's not out till the 19th. So you are going to hear it on the 14th first, which is great. And just to add on to last week's episode, so last week, we discussed slushies and we had a record number of comments, like record on Spotify. It just kept coming. I think it's still coming every few hours. I love reading them all. The conversations really progressed, Ella,

from last week's episode. Fill me in, cause I actually haven't seen them. So there was so many people saying, I've written to my local park, I've complained about this now, or I wasn't aware. Thank you so much, obviously, for discussing this. And someone saying, well, my child's over the age limit of eight anyway, and I now don't feel comfortable giving it to my child. And why are these sorts of things available? So I think we're all

just really fed up, but kind of coming together like a comradery kind of sense of why should we put up with this, which I thought was quite powerful. I think it's so powerful. I always remember when I started Delicious Yellow, this is forever ago now, but feeling that sense of community because when you feel alone in something, I saw someone else's email saying they had written into their child's school about the ham and cheese sandwiches and why are they giving them this ham as a default option when we know it's not good for us and obviously therefore not good for our children. And I do think there is

something in knowing you're not alone in these conversations that makes you feel so much bolder and more confident to be more vocal. 100% and on the subject of schools and holidays, so we're now going to be away for two weeks aren't we? But we're giving extra scoops and we're back on the 28th of April. That's the right day isn't it? That's the right date. Just two weeks. I have been in York and then I'm on holiday at the moment and Rhi is going to Disneyland which we're gonna need a whole scoop on because I think the food there is also gonna be very interesting.

Don't. It's the only thing people have said to me that have been they said just prepare yourself but it can't be that bad. I mean I'm just a Disney fan. I'm just seeing everything tinted glasses at the moment. Right, Ella, we've got a lovely two pickups from last week. So this I thought was really, really lovely of someone called Sarah. Sarah wrote in and she said, I'm a really big wellness group fan here. I'm a hospital optometrist. I hope I've said that right, Sarah. Optometrist, that's probably better in termsometrist. That's probably better in terms of pronunciation. She said, I work in independent healthcare sector in gosh, you tested me, Sarah, with the words here. Ophthalmology?

That's right. She said, I'm a national lead. So less patient facing nowadays, but the majority of our work is with people with cataracts and molecular degeneration and glycoma. So she said, I absolutely loved hearing the section all about eyes and nutrition. It's so important and something we as a profession have been telling patients for years. But I'm not sure the messages always get across in the best way. It isn't something we're told, is it? Our eyesight. Totally. I mean, if you didn't listen last week, there was a new piece of research coming out showing about the impact of ultra processed food, UPFs on eyesight. And I think one of the things

that we were taken aback by with it is that when we think about ultra processed food, we think about unhealthy diets, we tend to think first of all about things like obesity, type two diabetes, I'll just say the more obvious links and conditions associated the things we read about all the time. Whereas we don't necessarily think that actually our diets affect our eye health. And actually, there's quite a lot of evidence to show that that is the case. So it's really interesting getting a professional in that sector writing in saying thanks for getting that message across because they've been trying to do it for years. 100%. And it's something that's going to impact all of us as we get older, you know, to some

degree or some level, some probably not as much as others, but eye health is very important. And then we had a lovely listener message. Ella, do you want to read out Bianca's message? I love this one. And also, if you are new to the show, welcome. And I hope these messages give you a good insight as to what this community is and what you can expect for the show. And Bianca said she's a 41 year old wife and mum, she's an accountant by qualification, so she has zero training or understanding of anything health, wellness or medical related. And every time you or Ree say cutting through the noise, I feel like you are talking directly to me. It is so hard to try and make better decisions

for yourself and your family when there is this constant bombardment of information information which I know can't all be true. So all I actually want to say is please will you ladies keep doing what you're doing because I am now breaking one bad habit at a time or choosing one better option than I did before because I feel more knowledgeable and I trust the source of information. And that is why we do what we do. Oh, I just love that. And also I'm sure your habits aren't stereotypically bad,

by the way. You say you're breaking your bad habits. You're probably just improving yourself and making new life-changing, tiny little changes, which is what this show is definitely all about. So Ella, what do we have coming up on today's show? We've got so much coming up on today's show. First of all, can your diet actually add

nine extra years of disease-free life? That's a very interesting topic. Raw milk, it's everywhere in the online world right now. Is it actually safe? Is it better? Crash diets, we have the lowdown from a brilliant old article in Vogue. Have we reached peak intelligence and are now entering a post-literature society? That's a little bit terrifying, more on smartphones there. Should we be eating whole grains and

other bizarre social media conversation? And then our listener question today is what is the deal with sweet versus savory breakfast? So Rhee, before we get into all of that though, what have you been up to? I was gutted because I was going to ask you first because I'm just dying to hear about the food in New York. Can you just go first, Ella, because I know that's what people probably want to hear. Are they using beef tallow? What was it like?

Yeah, so we spent four days in New York last week. We were there for work. Delicious Yellow launched into all whole food stores across America a couple of months ago, which is so exciting. And I haven't been to America since before I got pregnant with Sky. So six and a half years ago or something. It's been a long, long time. Had a brilliant time. I have to say, I was quite struck.

I don't want to be an over generalization or offend any US listeners. I know, you know, not everything's the same, but I was really struck by the food. Just things like, for everything's the same, but I was really struck by the food. Just things like, for example, the ingredients, and I see it all the time online in their ketchup versus ours, things like high fructose corn syrup is just a standard in ingredients like that. Or we were at the airport and Sky's like, can I have an orange juice? I was like, sure, got an orange juice.

It was bigger than her head. Like, just the kind of size and proportion of things. Yeah, or she wanted, we were having some brunch with a friend who lives in New York and wanted a cheese toastie on the menu. And again, just like the process nature of the cheese and the toastie. And I know not everywhere it's like this, but just as a general viewpoint, the size of everything and the ingredient quality, the bread, etc. It just felt so ultra processed. It would be so interesting to hear from any US listeners who've spent time in Europe or the UK recently.

And if they felt the same, because to me, it felt noticeably very different. I don't know, in the minibar in the hotel, there were some sweeties and the girls were so excited. They're like, can we have these? I turned over the back of the pack and I was like, oh my gosh, the ingredients again, just compared to the sweets in the UK, they're just very noticeably, noticeably different. Anyway, we had a great time. And when I got on the plane, we were flying with BA, I got on the plane and the air hostess was like, I just have to say, I am a mega wellness scoop fan and listener.

She'd been hot girl walking and listening. Hot girl flying. Hot girl flying, even cooler. And then we were in a park in Central Park in New York and someone came up to me who was there with their kid and we were obviously there with girls. And she was also a wellness scoop listener. So that was very, very cool.

This is so epic. BA, you need to get the wellness scoop on your flights. Absolutely. Ellen, do you know what's interesting is I've definitely seen from fellow Americans, and there's a few people that I sometimes chat to on Instagram. Carly Bodrug does a lot of work. She's called Plant You on food in America. She has actually spoken about the size of the portions before, and I've seen the videos of it. I mean, I haven't been to America since I was about 10. But I can see the visual representation of food. It is definitely more quantity over quality.

I think a lot of Americans would probably agree with that. Yeah, but it'd be so interesting to hear from you guys. So please let us know. But yes, I was really struck by the portions of everything or even just like at the hotel breakfast, or did an apple juice for the girls and it was like came in a beer cup. And that was very interesting because that much apple juice is just not good for them. Like it's just too much apple juice. Like four servings of apple juice in one. And do you remember, was it two weeks ago now, we were talking again about seed oils and about how there's a kind of preemptive move by some corporations to not do fries in seed

oil and to use either beef tallows we talked about, but there's another chain using avocado oil. And there were ads- Hang on, deep frying avocado oil. Deep frying in avocado oil, yeah. And I saw these ads all over Manhattan for, I can't remember if it was fries or like kind of waffle fries, you know what I mean? And like Leon does in the UK. And it was, I'm going to take a photo and I will do it when we talk next time because we're flying back through New York for a few more days of work.

Exactly what the wording was, but essentially it was saying like, healthier fries, because they weren't in seed oil. And that was what we talked about being the concern, which is like, they are still deep fried. Like it's inherently, as we always say, like, one thing isn't going to kill you, one thing isn't the problem, having fries on the occasion is not where the issue lies. But marketing them is therefore like the healthy choice. Yeah.

It was very concerning and that was exactly what I saw. Yeah, you couldn't say that here that wouldn't stand up as a claim. You'd get, I mean, you could release it and then get pulled up on it. But I wonder what the regulations like in the States and what you can and can't say. So I will take a picture and we'll talk about it more next time. But anyway, it was absolutely fascinating. But I don't want to offend any US SSSF as we said, it's not all going to be the same, but it did feel noticeably very, very different from London. One quick question, did it?

Because if I went, I want to get one of those big bagels or big pretzels. Do they have the pretzels? Yeah, I mean a giant pretzel. Yeah, very delicious. My week couldn't have been more different from New York's. I went not to New York, but to the New Forest. And I have to say, I am envious of anyone in the UK that lives in this area. Wow.

I mean, I'd never been before. It's like stepping out of your everyday life into a fairy tale. Like you feel like you're walking through a field with wild horses, deer on the horizon. I mean, I even drove out of the, we were staying at this amazing family-friendly hotel. It's called New Park Manor. So if anyone that lives around that way, I think so many of you sent me lovely recommendations. Thank you of where to go and what to see. And there are horses that come right up

to the fence as you're driving. You can open your door, just say hello to these beautiful horses and off you go. The weather, I just cannot wax lyrical enough about this beautiful part of the UK, which I think the UK has so many gems and when the sun is shining, it's just magical. It really is. I totally agree. It's so beautiful down there. So we spent two days there, which was really, really nice. And I took a friend who was pregnant to afternoon tea at the Harry Hotel, which was nice. But what I would say that I wanted to mention is something that's strange that happened this week to me, is I had my first ever, and I know I sent this to you Ella, but my first ever AI attack or not sure how to phrase it. So I think I've been a bit naive to this AI explosion,

if I'm being honest, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners might feel the same, but really confused about how this impacts the health and wellness industry, where does it take things? And to me, it was a huge insight into all of us need to have your detective hats on and be super cautious of the content

that you are consuming on platforms like TikTok, which is where this happened to me. So thank you to Teresa, a follower that sent me this video. It had 800,000 views. It was a video of me talking, sounding like me. Like literally, this was me. It was taken from a Sky News clip I did a few years ago. And it's me selling a supplement and saying a load of pseudoscience. And this clip was just going viral. And at the end, there's like a link to, you need to buy this supplement because my hair was falling out and this did X, Y, Z. And this whole page had been created on TikTok featuring myself and another health professional,

Dr. Karan, and used our videos, our images, our voice, everything to spout nonsense and sell these supplements. And they're getting thousands and thousands of views and likes. I'm really sorry if anyone has ordered this. Always check created by AI in the bottom of the video. And I complained to TikTok several times and they wouldn't take it down. They said it's not doing anything against the guidelines. So even though it's impersonating me, Ella, it's like a video of me, my face, my voice. I'm having a hard time getting it taken down. So it goes to show what's in those supplements that they're selling and people are buying it. It's absolutely shocking on a kind of multitude of different reasons. And I'm so sorry from

a personal perspective, because that's incredibly difficult for you. But I also think in the conversation of the wellness group, it's such a great flag to your point of, we're already having trouble disseminating information online, which is obviously why this exists so that we can cut through the noise as we always say and help you guys understand what matters, what doesn't matter, what habits to change, what habits to work on, etc. But when you see a health professional, in this case, you are very unfortunately sitting there saying, waking up at 3 a.m., you have high cortisol,

hair falling out, you have high cortisol. And this whole video that's gone completely viral is basically re-giving you 1001 different scenarios and saying, it's high cortisol, you have high cortisol, which by the way, we should talk about in the trends section, because it feels like high cortisol's a big trend at the moment. I'm seeing a lot of it in cortisol face and things like that anyway. And then selling you a moringa supplement and it's terrifying because you are so

well qualified that it's difficult not to take your advice, but obviously it's not you. So I think kind of now more than ever just be to your point like Detective Hat On so critical essentially and skeptical of everything that you see online because it is so so hard to wade through. And I have to say slightly leads me on to my recommendation this week. I don't know, I think I'm kind of a bit late to the party on this one. But I, as you guys know, if you listen to the very first episode of The Wellness Scoop, really trying to cut down on my phone usage and late night doom scrolling this year, failing miserably at it. Let's just call a spade a spade. Very, very far from perfect. But in a bid to try and spend less time on social media, because I do think so many of these platforms are inherently becoming quite toxic and quite unhelpful, I have got really into Substack.

If you haven't got into it, there is so much amazing content on there. And it feels like original Instagram or original blogs in the sense of it's genuinely about good content. It's about learning. It's about your interest. It's not about aesthetics. It's not about clickbait. I'm a bit of a cliche. I'm following all your kind of usual suspects, Ottilanki, Elizabeth Day, Lucy Williams. So if anyone's got any good subsets, I would recommend please let us know because I think it's really interesting. I'm really enjoying it.

It feels like a healthy way to use social media again, if we can call it social media, which is how I found Instagram back in the day. I actually loved it. I felt I learned a lot. I felt it was actually a brilliant addition to my life. Whereas I think Instagram, TikTok now are not brilliant additions to my life.

No, I think they detract now a lot of the time more than depending on who you follow. But perhaps then this is the platform we should use with the wellness group, perhaps Substack. If it's a healthier platform and you use it in that way, Ella, perhaps we should have a discussion about it and see if we can bring our community onto something like that.

Yeah, let us know what you guys think on that. And then my second recommendation is a book I read over the last couple of days. It's called The Women by Kirsten Hanna. Oh my gosh, it is phenomenal. It was a recommendation from you guys. I'd read one of her other books, The Nightingale last year, which was also absolutely phenomenal. But I couldn't put this book down read it in it's like 600 pages or something read it in a matter of days it's fictional but it's about women in the Vietnam War nurses and it's just oh ten out of ten phenomenal so if you want some time away from Instagram get

sub stack if you want some time away from screens, get The Women by Kirsten Hannah. I really, really want to read that. I find the Vietnam War and that kind of period for me the association I've got is musical theatre, it's Miss Saigon, it's that and it makes me cry buckets every time I go to the theatre or I see that show. So I can only imagine the stories these women have is It's just captivating. It really is. It's one of the most captivating books I've ever read. But I will bring it in for you tomorrow and you will cry a lot. I've just started the last book you lent me, The Buddhist Journey, and I need to embrace how to focus on the now. I'll report back on that next

week. Then I think the recommendation I've got, I literally have had one of those weeks where I think because I've just been on the go quite a bit. I didn't really have anything other than I like a pair of pajamas. I mean, I've featured them on my socials. People probably think I'm going crazy. I'm not paid by this brand. I just liked it. It's called La Muda.

It's just the material. It's nice illustrations. And I think it's a Spanish brand, quite European. And it was just beautiful. And I got these little matching sets for the kids. But aside from trying out some pajamas, Ella, I don't really have anything else I feel of value to add this week. You are the value that you add to the show, so we can just take them.

Okay, so let's move on to the headlines that matter. Again, if you're new, this is the section where you break down the biggest health stories that are making news every week. And Rhee, what is on the agenda? What's our first headline? Okay, so the first headline is one that Elle has been dying for us to discuss since we saw it come out, and that is, can your diet really add nine extra years of a disease-free life?

And there's growing evidence now that simple dietary changes in midlife could significantly extend our health span. So the number of years we live free from major illness and decline. And a major new study is putting real numbers behind that, Ella. It's crazy, isn't it? And that fewer than one in 10 people actually reach their 70s without at least one serious disease or impairment. And I found that quite a, I guess, sad statistic, but this is a long-term study

and it followed participants for 30 years. And they found that just 9.3% of older adults could be classed as properly healthy by the time they reach 70. So that's just 9.3%, guys. That's not a great number at the moment. But researchers also identified a clear achievable way to improve those odds. So by improving the quality of what we eat. I love this study, because I think it's everything that you and I really believe in everything that we want our careers to be about to some extent, everything that this shows about which is taking simple day-to-day habits and trying to add them together, not to look a certain way or to wear a belly top on TikTok,

but to genuinely improve your life. And that's what health and wellness in my book really is about. It's about helping you have a better life. And in this case, it's a better life because you're going to reach older age feeling healthier, more energized, and less at risk of disease. And I think it is to your point, like it's very sobering that sub 10% of adults now in the UK are going to reach 70, which ultimately is still you may have decades left of your life. But 90% of us will get to that age and have a series of different health conditions, which will obviously take away from the enjoyment of that life because our health span just

won't be as good as it could be. And I think it's important to know that we can improve that if we're lucky and we can change our habits to do that. And I think that's so, so, so powerful. So this study was published in Nature Medicine, it analysed data from just shy of half a million UK adults, so a huge number, 467,000, to understand how diet quality affects what's known as disease free life expectancy, that health span that Ree was talking about. And so just for clarity, healthy ageing was defined in this study as reaching 70 without

any of the 11 major chronic conditions that affect most people in this point and with no impairments to cognitive function, physical ability or mental health. And those 11 conditions include cancer, excluding non-melanoma skin cancers, diabetes, obviously this is type 2 in this instance, heart attacks, coronary artery disease, heart failure, stroke, kidney failure, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis or ALS. And people who followed the highest quality diets and that was defined by being rich in vegetables, legumes, whole grains, more on this later,

fruit, nuts and healthy fats lived up to nine extra years without major illness compared to those with the poorest diets. And that is so major. Yeah, because ultimately, like Ella said, when you think about the broken plate report, and you think about the fact that food and accessibility to food isn't easy, doesn't this just show us the importance of emphasizing with government level and everybody else that we need to be prioritizing access to healthy food because there's more in this. It's that in lower income groups, the difference was even more pronounced. So up to 11 additional years free from chronic illness.

And that means if those lower income groups actually receive good quality food, they could have up to 11 years, not even just nine years. So we're enhancing it there. And that's a hugely important finding in the context of public health and health inequality. It shows that food can be one of the most powerful tools. And it's the one that we all have, we all need to eat. And it's something we can do to reduce this widening health gap, Ella. And it's why I'm so passionate about ultra-processed foods and the book coming out and the fact we're going to discuss it together, and I know you are with Delicacy Ella, but these low quality diets are typically,

again, we have it coming up again, typically high in red and processed meats, sugary drinks, refined grains, fried food, ultra-processed food packets that are cheap and convenient, but low in nutrients. Those are the food items most of the population are consuming and that is actively shortening our lifespan. Exactly. That was what was defined as the low quality diets in this study. So your high quality diets that are adding best part of a decade of disease-free life,

are rich in vegetables, legumes, whole grains, fruits, nuts, healthy fats, essentially your Mediterranean-esque diets. Your low quality diets, your standard Western diets that we have in today's society, high in red and processed meat, sugary drinks, refined grains, fried foods, UPFs, and not to just repeat ourselves with this fun of repeating each other, it's just to really hammer that home. Like the standard Western diet that has taken over is decreasing our health span. And that is just absolutely like, not to kind of get on a soap box here. It is shocking that we have allowed this to happen.

And that again, as we're talking about the top part of this show, we're all kind of emboldening and empowering each other to try and write to groups or schools, whatever is relevant to us to try and change our diets. But like, changing your diet really matters. We're talking about a decade of healthy life here. And we're not demonizing all foods guys. So obviously we know, Ella and I know that, you

know, we're not saying wheat bits are bad and, you know, canned soups are some UPFs that obviously have a place. We're just saying when your whole diet is made up of these items, it's not helping you live longer without these conditions and quality of life is something that is so overlooked. I feel like we spend our youth focusing on aesthetic goals or whatever is trending, rather than thinking of that older woman that Jamila Jamil said in the previous episodes, if anyone listens, she gave an amazing speech about speaking to your older woman inside you and looking after her just as much as the one that you're in now. Tosie, and health and wellness is too often associated with how you look and aesthetics,

but actually it's about having loads of energy to look after your grandkids or whatever's going to be important to you at that point. And I think one other really, really important bit from this study is that the benefits of this higher quality diet were not linked to weight or calorie restriction. The gains in health span were independent of BMI and weight. What mattered here was the nutrient density, the eating more whole, minimally processed foods and fewer ultra-processed ones. And that's also, I think that's really important, again, to this point that we're so often associating what we eat with how we look, etc, etc, and weight. This study is not looking at that at all.

It's all independent of weight. This is looking purely at quality of diet and quality of diet alone giving you best part of 10 extra healthy years. So when you finish work today and you're like, I'm exhausted. I don't know if I can be bothered to make dinner. It's so worth just making a veggie stir fryfry or a quick tray bake or a one-pan curry that can serve you for lunch the next couple of days. Some roasted bean mix, just chuck it on the side of your easy fro-to.

Could even be a sandwich with an extra portion of roasted beans. Totally. It is so worth it. And in a wellness space that often feels overcomplicated, exclusionary, too aesthetic-driven, I think this focus on research like this that sends us like very hopeful message of just small, pretty affordable, consistent choices. Your lentil soups, your handful of nuts, roasted veg, as we're saying, like it helps us live longer and better.

Can't spread that message further or wider. Exactly. It's not size or shape. It's diet quality. I'm all for that message. And do you know, it's actually quite nice. It leads me on to a pickup. So last week we discussed how our gut has a huge influence on our brain, Ella. And I saw this new study that literally came out, I think it was last week in the EMBO Molecular Medicine Journal. And it's a pickup from that discussion that the amygdala, so specifically this is the part of the brain that's linked to our fear, our physical reactions, and linked to anxiety.

So the amygdala determines if the action we take is a threat warranting a response from our body. So essentially, when we're anxious, when we're consuming social media, we're not eating well, all these other lifestyle factors that come in, we turn our amygdala into overdrive. And an overactive amygdala, because it's constantly being stimulated at the moment, is linked to over-increased symptoms of anxiety, which might be why levels of anxiety are rising around the globe, especially in Western societies. So a team in Singapore, and I don't like this, that we test on. I've always had a thing as

a nutritional scientist when I'm reading studies that are tested on animals and I feel really, really torn about it, obviously. But a team in Singapore raised mice who were germ-free, so devoid of gut bugs. This is the key here. And they found increased anxiety because they didn't have any gut bugs. And exposing the mice to microbes resulted in lower anxiety.

So essentially, your gut bacteria and your diet, so the more good food you feed your gut, the less anxious you could also become. I mean, this is just in my studies, so watch this space. But doesn't that just blow your mind that the diet quality might also be not just physical health, like the study we've just discussed is for life expectancy, but for mental health, it could also give us extra years of better mental health.

It's so interesting. It's so powerful. And I think it's funny because we obviously we do this show to inspire you guys, but it definitely inspires me massively as well because it is that thing where it's just so easy to opt out of healthy choices when there's lots going on. And I listen to that and I'm like, yes, let me get my 30 different plants this week. I got to feed those microbes. Don't get me wrong. I was at Pepper Pig World when we went back from the New Forest. And I wouldn't say there was any gut-friendly food there. Sometimes you have just got a given, but that's why the choices you make most of the time are the ones that matter. Okay, flights on air Canada. How about Prague?

Ooh, Paris. Those gardens. Gardens. Amsterdam. Tulip Festival. I see your festival and raise you a carnival in Venice. Or Bermuda has carnival. Ooh, colorful. You want colorful. Thailand. Lantern Festival.

Boom. Book it. Um, how did we get to Thailand from Prague? Oh, right. Prague. Oh, boy. Choose from a world of destinations, if you can. Air Canada.

Nice travels. Okay, so this one, we're going to move from positive to negative. Let's just call a spade a spade here. Actually, Kerry, who runs our plants business, sent me this from the FT and it's terrifying. Links to this why I'm desperate to go off my phone at the moment. I know. I can see it, Ella. I don't like it. Okay, so have we as humans past peak brain power? The question is essentially what happens if the extent to which we can practically apply intelligence is diminishing and according to a very powerful piece in the Financial

Times a couple of weeks ago, there is a mounting body of evidence to show something exactly like this, this diminishing intelligence is happening to the human intellect and has been over the last decade or so. So the headline was, as I said, have humans passed peak brain power? And the data is just very hard to ignore. So across a range of tests, the average person's ability to reason and solve novel problems

appears to have peaked in the early 2010s and declined ever since. And that's not just a short term dip. The latest rounds of results from the OECD's PISA test, which is basically a test used to benchmarks 15 year olds performance in reading, maths and science, shows that the scores had already dropped significantly between 2012 and 2018.

So it's not just the last couple of years. And it's also shows that this has been happening pre-pandemic as well, because I think often we're reading about this kind of difference in our aptitude or intelligence post-pandemic, but this is actually a trend from pre-pandemic. And the trend is absolutely not limited to teenagers, adults across all age groups, all shows showing similar declines in reasoning, concentration and cognitive performance. Can I say, so just reading that out loud, I believe it. And do you know, I think it's because I was trying to think when I did, you know, 2007 when I was doing sixth form

or left school, you know, that type of era, I think it was tech was there, but it wasn't fully there. And obviously, I don't know. But is this because computers just came along? And did your subtraction, your addition, your algebra, your thinking, I mean, we are so heavily reliant on tech, and it only grew every year rapidly, right from the time periods that have been discussed. Could that be why? Yes, but there's another interesting reason behind it. Okay, I said this is quite a depressing stat and I think this is interesting as well before we get into the whys. One very striking stat as well in high-income countries, one in four adults can no longer apply basic

mathematical reasoning to assess whether a statement is valid. In the US that's even higher, 35%. Okay, so what is behind this shift? Well, researchers believe it's less about biological changes to the brain and much more about how we are using our minds in the digital age that we live in. So the article was exploring this cultural shift from focus, self-directed learning, like reading or problem solving, to the passive content consumption that consumes way too much of our lives today. So those short form videos that you see online a couple of seconds long, our algorithm fed

feeds, the constant notifications that ping from our emails, our WhatsApp, et cetera, and the endless scrolling that we are all doing way too much of, myself very much included. So this is very true. And I wonder if though, okay, so it's saying we've reached peak intelligence, perhaps by the time social media has had more bands for children, you know, the ones we've discussed on this podcast for the last few weeks, by the time our kids are at school between these ages of 12 to 18, or whatever the ages are they're assessing here, potentially, we'll go backwards a bit and move away from it within learning. But then you look at the invention of AI on the flip side. This is such a mahusive debate because it's not going anywhere actually, is it? Exactly. And I think the whole thing that's terrifying is back to my recommendation of Substack. The research has basically shown that active intentional use of digital tools isn't a problem. So going on your phone, reading a newspaper, reading an interesting article,

having a conversation with your best friend or your mum, that's not the problem. So we don't need to be terrified of our phones. No. But what the problem is here in terms of our brain capacity is the passive reactive use that essentially is chipping away our ability to focus, process verbal information, retain details, manage our own attention. And that is the kind of passive endless scrolling where you're not deliberately doing something. And I just think that's so interesting.

Anyway, the researchers were calling this move towards a post-literate society, essentially. And it is just absolutely terrifying. But surely it's because of, like we mentioned reading, and I know it goes on to discuss, and I'll let you delve into that in a minute. But TV shows even on what age appropriate and how long kids should be watching TV for, what type of TV.

You've had adolescents come out with content online. This is a huge area that surely there should be almost more guidance on how to use technology for the best, like you said, to learn to enhance. Reading rates are at an all time low. I know with World Book Day that's just come and gone, even access to books, some kids don't have access to books. How have we got to this point? Yeah, in 2022, fewer than half of Americans reported reading a book that previous year.

Again, that's just the US, but it's just an interesting illustration of it anyway. I think the point for the wellness group here is essentially how we think our mood, etc. is so affected by our digital usage. And I think it's so difficult, as I said, to give myself just a full fail on putting my phone away and doom scrolling. But I think we all need to try harder because it is affecting us. I know. And I love that you said this is for any age group. And I can see the prevention that we're able to implement at every step really. Like you said, it's try and consume a sub stack or try and use it to learn something new rather than the doom scrolling. Let's all set a little target less doom scrolling this week. Let's try. Totally. Exactly. Sun's out in the UK Ella, so we should try and enjoy it.

I honestly had it when we got on holiday and I picked up my phone and I almost opened Instagram and I thought, what on earth am I doing? I'm on holiday with my husband, with my kids. There are my kids, they were playing some imagination game where they were explorers and they were trying to find nature, like a dead crab shell, they were fascinated by it anyway. And I thought, why am I picking up my phone? Like what is on this that is better than what's in front of me? Exactly. I just say that to be open and honest, because I think all of us do that probably too often. We absolutely do. I find myself, if my phone's not next to me, and I've actually bought, I don't know if I said this,

I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, guys, I bought something called a phone dock that goes in our kitchen where I make my husband and I now put our phones in the phone dock, and that's where they live. So I've now created a phone home because I walk around the house with it, and then I lose it all the time.

Constantly lose my phone. But let's move on to our next headline, Ella. By the way, you said you didn't have a recommendation this week. That is a 10 out of 10 recommendation. It really is. So you're full of very useful recommendations. Do you know, it's funny you say that because the only negative review, and I don't normally, we don't actually really get any, I think we probably had two in the whole series since starting the wellness group. Someone else said that we're too nice to each other so

they gave us one star. I think that's so interesting. Why would you want women to be nasty to each other? That is just utterly bizarre. I think and I think you'll probably see it on the reviews if you read it, they were like, oh, they started the show kind of a bit too gushy. And I remember even saying, oh, we're gushing a bit this time, but it was such a nice chat. We were having like a good time. Oh my gosh. And being thrilled for each other. Yes. Very, very odd. Well, I apologize. We will continue to be nice to each other. I think you can opt out of this show. This is

an empowering kind of environment. It is. Whole grains Ella. Whole grains. Yes, talk us through this. Whole grains seems to be a hot topic at the moment. I see quite a lot of it everywhere. You've picked out a piece from The Guardian, but I've definitely, as I said, been seeing it a lot online as well. I don't really understand why it's there. I mean, are whole grains really healthy? Now this was in the garden and I again just couldn't believe what I was reading.

So in the US, dietary guidelines recommend that at least half of a person's total grain intake be whole and to limit the intake of refined grains. So that makes sense, right? It's the same here in the UK. And the UK here, the National Health Service says that starches should account for about a third of a person's

food intake and that a person chews high fiber or whole grain varieties. Basically this is saying the same thing. The guidelines match in the US and the UK that we want a lot of whole grain. And according to the Mayo Clinic, whole grains could help control cholesterol levels. We know all of this.

Blood pressure, diabetes. And it doesn't mean that refined grains need to be entirely avoided, experts say. this, blood pressure diabetes, and it doesn't mean that refined grains need to be entirely avoided, experts say. It's just that we're focusing too much on specific foods and nutrients rather than one's overall health. So whole grains have actually been demonised in the press recently. And I think it's because of the carnival movement. I know you said this to me last week, Hella, because I was like, why were we asked in this interview that we had? We did a press interview, didn't we?

And one of the fads that came up was whole grains. And I just responded being like, what do you mean whole grains? How is that a fad? It was a very interesting moment, wasn't it? We were doing an interview together for the Telegraph with a brilliant journalist and she was going through some of the fads and headlines and trends that we've been talking about in the show. And she looked at me and she was like, what about whole grains? And you were like, sorry?

That's not a fad. That's a core part of a healthy diet as per headline one, as we just talked about. But because of the carnival movement and the kind of focus away on meat and meat only and a love of saturated fat, Things like whole grains have been demonised, which is just so odd. And I think it would be really helpful for listeners to get a 101 from you on why we should not demonise whole grains and what their benefits are. Yeah, I mean, we shouldn't demonise any food, like refined grains as well. So your white carbs also have a place, especially if you're experiencing IBS or you're looking for some quick energy or an athlete, something like that. But most of the time you want a lot more fibre because we're not getting enough. So a whole

grain has three parts to it and if you visualise like a seed on the screen you've got a hard outer coating which is called the bram, then a smaller core inside which is known as the germ and then a large kind of starchy middle layer and that's the endosperm. That's basically what whole grains are. So when inside, which is known as the germ, and then a large kind of starchy middle layer, and that's the endosperm. That's basically what whole grains are. So when a whole grain kernel is processed to make it refined, so let's call it brown bread, and you want to make it white bread, so it's stripped of the germ and the bran, and it leaves only that mushy endosperm bit in the middle. And the endosperm is the largest component of a whole grain,

so it also contains the fewest amount of nutrients because that outer shell, that germ and the bran, contains all the fiber, the protein, the vitamins, the minerals. And generally, the processing is performed to create those soft flavors, you know, textures, which is when we talk about ultra-processed foods, we talk about how easy they are to swallow

and chew and how palatable they are. And that's why rye bread is so dense and more difficult to chew because you've got all those wonderful properties. But according to the American Society of Nutrition, only 7% of American adults meet the current fiber intake. 7%. Here in the UK, it's higher. Heather Allisera It's not much higher though, I don't think, is it? Emma Cunningham Not much. I think most people in the UK are achieving just under half. So we're at a slightly higher percentage, but it's really shocking because the current fiber intake recommendations over there are 14 grams of fiber per 1,000 calories. So they measure things differently.

But fiber is just so good for gut health. And I just don't understand why people are saying that it could be possibly bad. I think it's symptomatic of the confusion that is the wellness world today. And I think if we were going to kind of go back to the core of the show to cut through the noise, I think it is going back to exactly what headline one is, which is that Mediterranean esque diet. Simple, simple, simple. Just packing your food, your plate, your meals, your recipes with fruits,

veggies, nuts, whole grains, etc. Not demonizing the pizza you enjoy with friends, not demonizing the mini eggs or Easter eggs that everyone will enjoy over Easter weekend, that's not the problem. But coming back to these simple things and not over complicating it. I think the fact that we're discussing whether you should eat whole grains or not in a normal diet is kind of the problem in and of itself. You know what the Guardian said, and I thought this was actually another thing to consider when discussing food is the moral grounds and basis of it, you know, the elitism. So what they've said is with access to food, they said there is a note of elitism with

whole foods. And for some reason, you know, it's associated with class. And then you've got disordered eating where people would only say on the flip side, I will only eat whole grains, you know, I'd never touch a refined carb. We've got this moral emphasis on foods that we consume, which can become, again, psychology and nutrition here work hand in hand, but ultimately, whole grains and refined grains need to be morally neutralized. And I think that's a discussion in itself. I think we should bring that to the show. It'd be interesting to hear from the audience if they'd like to talk us to talk about it. But I would love to bring that to the show another week because I think this whole kind of moral aspect is so interesting and this kind of fixation of doing

things perfectly, et cetera, is very, very interesting. It moves us on quite nicely, doesn't it, to watch Training and Wellness? Because I think this whole good or bad is a constant question of trends. And our first trend this week is one that you guys have asked us to talk about. I have certainly been seeing it everywhere for six months or so now. And that is raw milk. So, I was obviously diving into this thinking, what can I say, looking for pros and cons? Because that would be a fair argument, right, to discuss this. But I actually came across this headline in The Times, and it's an old headline in 2015.

And the headline is quite shocking, guys. So a bit of a trigger warning here. But it says, raw milk nearly killed my son. Now drinking it is a political act. And that's the headline in the Times. So this has kind of resurfaced. This trend was big, but I think now we've added social media and how huge social media is. It's obviously blown up again. So the story I've got here is that in 2006 at her local health shop in, is that Marietta in California? Any Californians?

Let me know if I pronounced that one correctly. She saw a sign extolling the allergy-beating properties of raw milk. So after some further research, this woman decided to try it. And within two and a half weeks, her son was fighting for his life. He was on a dialysis for 18 days. It basically goes on to the most horrific things, but basically her son Chris was found to have contracted hemolytic uremic syndrome from E. coli in the milk. This is what this whole conversation is about. The reason we pasteurized cow's milk to begin with, whether you consume cow's milk or not is your choice.

There's ethics to consider. Some people can't with the enzymes. There's lots to consider, some people can't, you know, with the enzymes, there's lots to consider. But just like everything else this article said, it's become politicised, the content here and the consumption of raw milk in itself. So TikTok videos are everywhere now, Ella, in 2025. Yeah, it's very interesting. My brother had hemolytic uremic syndrome as a baby when my mum was pregnant with me, was in hospital for a long time, very nearly lost his life. And it's such a serious, obviously, it's not everyone who drinks raw milk ends up with this complication from E. coli, but can't really underestimate how serious it is as a illness. And as you said, it's milk's an interesting one, but but seeing raw milk blow up and the argument exactly as you said is that it has essentially

kind of that it's much, much healthier that it has these allergy beating properties. What is the 101? Are there benefits? No, not really. I mean, what's really sad about this, you've got these crazy, again, it's from the Carnival Camp online, some of the most popular influencers. I won't even give them their time by saying their name, but they say that raw milk, basically, this is nothing like the pasteurized, they call regular cow's milk that's been pasteurized, homogenized milk you get in the store guys. And they say the word pasteurized like it's this utter disgusting thing you can do to a food. And they're saying that basically it's a dangerous byproduct of humankind's gluttonous provisions. I'm just reading this out now. Provisions, the way you might say microplastics or Mountain Dew Code Red, I'm just reading off all these

things that have been said online because it's outrageously crazy. They compare pasteurisation to things like consuming lots of soda. It doesn't actually reduce the milk's nutritional value. So it's outrageous because pasteurisation, according to one of the New York professors that I read in this article, he said that pasteurised milk to one of the New York professors that I read in this article, he said that pasteurizing milk is one of the greatest public health achievements of the 20th century because drinking cow's milk used to kill babies. I think we have to take a step back here and remind ourselves why we started in the food

industry to do things that meant we could consume food on a wide level that's safe. Pasterising food makes food safe. Also, just to add, by the way, here in the UK, it's actually illegal to sell raw cow's milk, drinking milk in any other setting. So for instance, in Scotland, it's completely banned to sell raw drinking milk and raw cream. And Basically, the FSA and the guidance that we have is that it's not safe to consume. Although it's legal in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, it can only be sold directly to the consumer by registered farms at the farm gate. It's very interesting here. Things I didn't even know existed. Farmers at registered farmers' markets and distributors using a vehicle as a shop,

such as a milk round. So it's definitely not something we should be buying in the wellness context everywhere. I'm amazed that it's everywhere. Yeah, so don't get het up. I don't think you guys need to go and buy raw milk. Regular milk will suffice. Well, it's like I sent Ella a picture that Ro Huntress, who's actually going to be on our Extra Scoop, she's an amazing fertility dietician, she sent me a picture that Ro Huntress who's actually going to be on our Extra Scoop, she's an amazing fertility dietician, she sent me a picture of colostrum, she's in LA I think and they're adding colostrum to smoothies and I felt a bit sick because it reminded me of when I was breastfeeding and you get that golden milk, the colostrum and I was like oh my gosh why do people want that in

their smoothies? It's funny you said that I started working on this project which actually I haven't done anything with, mid last year, ahead of us starting this show. And it was all about essentially this cutting through the noise, how do we move away from trends? And one of my prompts to start looking into the madness that is wellness today was I was listening to a podcast

and it was from, she was out in LA, the person hosting the show, and she was interviewing someone. And they were talking about how they essentially achieve optimal wellness. And I'm going to be honest, in this case, there's very much a lot of aesthetics at play in optimal wellness. And she was talking about how she shipped liters of bovine to cow's colostrum across the US for her gut health and to help her skin health. And it was a real moment of just what is going on. That is not wellness. Wellness is extending your health span by eating more walnuts and chickpeas and barley.

Oh, Ella, it breaks my heart. I'm thinking of all those cows that have had their milk taken away from their babies. I cannot even deal with it. Yeah, look, there's a huge ethical moral question in colostrum from cows, certainly. And also just the pursuit of wellness becoming so elitist, so extreme. Again, very curious to hear listeners' thoughts on it. But for me, it was one of those moments of like, hang on a second, I think we need to call time on wellness and we need to have a sense check here. And it really, again, there's this absurd divulgence, dichotomy, ironic gulf that exists

where the world of wellness has got bigger and bigger, more extreme, more extreme, more extreme and our collective health, particularly in the Western world has got worse and worse and worse and worse. And we're now seeing wellness as drinking you know, drinking colostrum powders or shipping colostrum across the country, taking ice baths, drinking raw milk, doing all these extreme things. And yet we know the clinical evidence to prove our health span is from nuts and seeds and whole grains.

And it's like, guys, what's going on here? It don't cost anything compared to anything like that. I mean, it was called something like creamed colostrum. I don't even want to go there. Ella, Vogue, maybe they started it. Well, look, this is a really great segue, actually. I saw this on socials and I just thought it was worth just popping into the end of our transaction today.

Again, as part of this other project I was working on when I was looking at this colostrum, I was also looking at diet culture and where the connection of the wellness world, aesthetics, how we look, our image, etc. where they come together. And I can bring more of that to the show again if anyone's interested to let us know. I was looking at things like how we cycle through the cigarette diet, cabbage soup diet, grapefruit, etc. Baby food diet. Oh my gosh. But this resurfaced on my socials this week and I thought it was fascinating.

So this was published in Vogue in 1977, so obviously a little while ago now. And it was called the crash diet. And this is what you ate. So it's three days to lose 2.5 kilos, 5 pounds. And it's basically wine and eggs. Breakfast, one egg, hard boiled, one glass of white wine, dry. For breakfast. Yeah, dry, preferably shabby, black coffee, lunch, two eggs, again, hard boiled is best,

poached if necessary. I guess if you need to spice up. Two glasses of white wine, black coffee, dinner, 150 gram steak, grilled with black pepper and lemon juice, remainder of your white wine, one bottle allowed a day, black coffee. Oh my gosh. So Ella, nutritionist hat, they're dehydrating you with wine. And coffee. And coffee to give you the energy, it's a geretic. And then they're basically keto. Yeah, exactly. This is early days keto. And low to give you the energy, it's a geretic. And then they're basically keto. Yeah, exactly.

This is early days keto. And low carb and low energy. It's wild, isn't it? So it's a crash diet made famous by Vogue, as I said, in 1977. And it came from a book by a woman called Helen Gurley Brown in 1962 that was called Sex and the Single Girl, the Unmarried Woman's Guide to Men. And she was a huge, it's gold, isn't it? I just had to bring it, a little light relief.

Sorry, I can't. Wellness has been wild for decades, essentially. So she was a hugely influential figure in the early women's kind of empowerment, although I think we're going to use quote unquote empowerment when we look at what we're talking about here, movement. She was actually editor-in-chief of Cosmopolitan for over three decades. And it's just really interesting. She broke boundaries in lots of ways. She was very vocal about women's independence, career ambitions, sexual freedom, interesting topics.

But her views on food and body image were just mad. And they reflect this intense societal pressure that's placed on women at that point to be slim. But I just thought it was interesting because it came up in my feed. And I was like, in a way, nothing's changed. You know, yes. Well, she is Miranda Priestly from The Devil Wears Prada. Yes, I know.

He is that character, kind of, like, got to be thin. And it's like, you'd like to think that in the 50, 60 years or so since then, we've come a long way. But I think when we look at how toxic diet culture is today, and I think now it's just dressed up as wellness, it actually we haven't really come anywhere at all. It's the same without the alcohol. Exactly. It is literally the same without the alcohol. And so I think, I just thought it was interesting because it's this pressure on women to look a certain way, to have our

diets be so inherently kind of linked to the way we look. It's always been there. I think growing up, especially when I was doing this research on kind of diet culture and where it's all come from, I feel like it's been pressed on us since we were infants, special K diets. They said the craziness of things like the Lucky Strike diet. This was done by the American Tobacco Company and the ad campaign ran with the slogan, to keep a slender figure, reach for a lucky instead of a sweet, or when tempted to overindulge, reach for a lucky instead. And sales of Lucky Stripes boomed, they grew over 300% during the first year of the campaign. This is in the kind of 1920s. And there were all these ads that are interesting,

I'll put them on my socials, but again, you see these images of like, and just slightly more overweight women and it's like, yeah, just smoke instead of getting fat. Anyway, basically, this conversation around women's bodies, diets, wellness, aesthetics, it's so inherently linked. And I think it's just so important for us to note that. Do you know what I remember you saying you were doing this project. Could you also dig out what men or men's health or whatever the vogue version for men was at the time and what they were being targeted with? Because I bet it would be polar opposite. It's probably how to relax, not how to starve. How to have a great life, not how to starve yourself.

So just, I think if anyone's feeling overwhelmed, just remember this conversation has been going on for decades. It's always been pretty mad to be honest. And I think let's just bring it back to the basics that expand our health span. Yes, Ella, thank you for bringing that up. I love the history dive and it is a very, very poignant reminder. Now we've got a wonderful listener question today and it says, Hi, I love the podcast so much and I listen to it every week. I know you're always asking for trends. Thank you, we are to address on the podcast. And I was wondering about the demonization

of the sweet breakfast. I mean, we've both seen it everywhere. She says, I've always had a sweet breakfast, yogurt, fruit and granola, cereals and plant milk, oats, et cetera. And it seems everywhere people are saying this sets you up badly for the rest of the day and increases hunger. So what are your thoughts on this? She says. And Ella, let's start with you. I have seen this everywhere as well and I thought it was a great

question. So thank you so much for bringing it to the show. Again, I feel like I'm on a soap box today, but this to me is the problem. This is literally like the crux of the issue is we're complicating stuff so much. It's from what I'm reading where you're saying you're having yogurt, fruit and granola. That sounds like a great breakfast. You know, the granola has probably got nuts and seeds in it, great for your plant points. The yogurts probably got healthy fats in it. The fruit is obviously great for vitamins, minerals, fiber again. That sounds really healthy to me. Now look, having a bowl of Coco Pops is not healthy, you know, as a daily breakfast. But if you're having the fats, you're getting there, the fiber you're getting there.

Protein in the yogurt. Exactly, nuts and seeds. That sounds brilliant. And so I think where people are flagging sweet breakfast, the idea that we move on from like Coco Pops or Frosties for breakfast, yes, that's not going to set you up for the day. It's not got fiber, it's not got fat, it's not going to keep you full. It's not got lots of vitamins and minerals, 100%. But sweet breakfast like porridge with nut butter and fruit or like you're saying, your yogurt granola bowls, that can be super, super healthy, set you up brilliantly, pack you with fiber and plant points and certainly nothing to worry about.

Yeah. I mean, Ella, you hit the nail on the head. What a wonderful, diverse, rich breakfast. I mean, I'd worry if you didn't have the yogurt, the nuts, the seeds and it was just oats with a bit of water. I mean, that's probably not the best way to start your day, but even so, actually, that's still better than the Coco Pops option. So you've got to look at everything here and make it relative to you and your life rather than isolating individual foods and saying they're bad or good or sweet or savory because the body just doesn't, your body doesn't see a meal and think, oh, that's a sweet meal or all that's a savory meal. You know, your body literally sees the nourishment and tries its best to break it down. Then once it gets to your small intestine,

it absorbs all the nutrients, it gets into your bloodstream. The digestive process is epically incredible. And just to remind you that I think this has escalated from particular online accounts in the carnival camp, also in the glucose camp, with these discussions around spikes of blood sugar, which if you listen to last week's episode, we explained quite a bit. But as long as your breakfast contains some protein,

healthy fats, lots of fiber, then you're winning guys. And you're doing an amazing job. Porridge is not bad for you. It's how you top it. It's how you make it. And even actually, if you do drink cow's milk and you have whole fat cow's milk or semi-skimmed, you're having that with oats.

There's actually quite a lot of fat in there. It doesn't spike in the same way. And we are unique. So what I eat, what my neighbor eats, what my son eats, will all react to it differently. We just don't know. No one's the same. Not everybody's going to have a high response to grapes when they eat them. Some people might not have any spike in blood sugars. So just do your best, guys. This is too much for me. I don't like demonizing foods. And just my final thought for the day, and I think this is so important, I think it relates

to so much of what we've talked about today, is that eating well, eating a healthy diet needs to be enjoyable. If you're not enjoying it, if it doesn't taste good, it's not going to last. We all know diets don't work, you know, you can read different stats on it, but 18 to 90% of diets fail. And they fail because you're depriving yourself and you don't feel satisfied. And after a few days, you think I can't do this anymore. And you're much more likely to binge on other foods. So if what you're doing and say you love that breakfast, your yogurt fruit granola, but you

think, Oh, I listened to the wellness group, I'm going to add some more nuts and seeds to it, or some nut butter for healthy fats, for example. Phenomenal, you are winning. If you enjoy that, you're going to be going into your day satisfied, and you're not going to be thinking, oh, I wish I could eat this, oh, I wish I could eat that, and have all that food noise going on, and then suddenly see a bag of sweets and want to eat the whole thing in one go.

And so I just think, you know, to your point really, like that's not demonised food, I just think it's so important to remember that healthy diet is something to take us into our 70s, as we talked about earlier, it's something for life. And if you can't sustain the way you're currently eating for life in an enjoyable way, you need to shift it. And you need to make it more enjoyable, because eating well should be something that adds to your life. It shouldn't be something that makes you feel like you're living in a cycle of deprivation and restriction. Our relationships with food are incredibly important. It's the psychology, it's how we consume it and with the AI discussion and everything else going along just try

and focus on yourself and remember like Ella said if it's not sustainable enjoyable it doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't have to be Instagram Just try and focus on yourself and remember like Ella said, if it's not sustainable, enjoyable, it doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't have to be Instagram worthy of a picture. It's just got to work for you. And what's the point if it doesn't taste nice and you don't enjoy it? Which actually leads me on to a little reminder about, I guess, before we clock off, the wellness scoop live. I can't believe it.

Go and get your tickets and the extra scoop. We had a good one, didn't we? Yeah, tickets selling super, super fast, so please get them, we cannot wait to see you, 14th of June, it's gonna be mega. As you said, Extra Scoop's still going on, they're brilliant, give you the overviews that you need on everything.

We will be back in two weeks, and please do us a massive favor, review it, share it, put it on your socials. It means the world to us, and it helps us reach more people to to cut through the noise, to make help us all get into our 70s in a healthy enjoyable way. A thousand percent. So thank you for tuning in guys. We'll be back on April the 28th and enjoy our extra scoops and let us know how your Easter was when we come back as well. We love your feedback. Thank you for listening.

Don't feel guilty about eating chocolate over Easter. See you soon!