The Wellness Scoop - Diets That Lower Cancer Risk, Collagen Hype & The Mental Health Divide

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

Does collagen actually do anything for your skin? Which diets are linked to lower cancer risk? Is mental health really declining in younger generations, and have we surpassed peak wellness as we head into 2026? This week we break down collagen hype versus reality, the largest diet studies on cancer risk, and the growing generational mental health divide, alongside the biggest wellness trends set to shape the year ahead. From global data to practical tips, it’s everything you need to make sense of the headlines and apply them to real life. Order your copy of Ella's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quick Wins: Healthy Cooking for Busy Lives⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Pre-order your copy of Rhi's upcoming book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Fibre Formula⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We'd love to talk, business. Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are both here as your host. I'm Ella Males. And I'm Rihanna Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. And that's why we're here with this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living, simple, fun and personal. And guys, this is episode 99. We're nearly at 100. I know. I think there's something, I don't know, we have thinking about this over the weekend and I'm just going to apologize to everyone in

advance because I had breakfast but I don't feel like I had a big enough breakfast. I've now had two coffees and I am definitely a jittery, a jittery woman who might struggle to read things this morning so let's give us a go. But I remember when we first spoke about the show, it was this sense of like, let's just do something that feels fun, that feels meaningful to both of us, that feels really personal and that completely where we can bring nuance, where we can have opinions. And we can really build a community around that of like-minded people and we want to do it in a way totally transparently that works for us because we both have loads of other work commitments we both have two small children which is why we don't film it so that we can make this flexible we can

make it work sometimes it's remote sometimes like today it's in person and let's just give it a go let's lose like the lights camera action huge production and make it genuinely just super super personal and authentic because then it is authentic and real I think the minute you've got a camera crew in you can't help but change i certainly did as soon as we brought that on to the old delicious yellow podcasts i always felt on edge anyway so we thought let's just give it a go and there's something about reaching episode 100 and then we've got you guys listening in over 150 countries that's crazy six million downloads it just feels really real and like this is really over the last year it's actually become something and we did it i'm a bit lost for words to be honest everyone it's unbelievable

and I always read as I tell you all the comments, the Spotify. We've got our email address, of course, and it's overwhelming to just hear, yeah, the support. So we're all in the same place together. So thank you. So Thursday's episode will be a landmark number 100. Number 100. But today, Ree, what have we got coming up for you all? In today's show, we have the 1.8 million person study on diet and cancer risk that everybody's talking about and what does it really mean.

collagen we're going to go there is it a miracle glow up or very expensive powder new data gives us the answers is mental health really declining in younger generations and why smartphones ultra-processed food and the four drivers behind the mental health divide and then we have have we hit peak wellness the trends that are set to shape 2026 and as always the small practical shifts you can actually make this week okay so last week was book week. The Fiber Formula came out on Thursday. We had the amazing event to celebrate. How are you feeling? Yeah, Ella did a lovely interview for me at the event and I made a little film, you know, like a fibre film to showcase the fact that it's needed. Do you know how I feel?

It's a very strange thing to say is that I knew it wasn't going to be easy. I know that even though on this podcast you're probably fed up with me waxing lyrical about fiber, but mainstream it's still not quite there in the way that I think it should be. Yeah, in the way protein is. However, I feel I have made a dent and that feeling in itself is a wonderful one to have. So thank you to everybody for helping raise awareness about a nutrient that quite frankly saves lives. So it's been busy, Ella. It was Wild Obesity Day.

I gave a talk at Wild Abusey Day. Yes, we're going to do a deep dive into that next week, aren't we? Yeah, I think we'll do that then because there's a lot to be said on that. And I'm really looking now as well into looking at childhood nutrition. So I've got a lot of things planned to try and make a change in younger generations up. But anyway, it's been busy, Ella. How about you? I love that.

It's so important. It's really interesting. I know our children are similar age, but my girls are at 5 and 6, nearly 7. And it's amazing. They are very interested and curious about their bodies, about nutrition. I mean, don't get me wrong, they love lollipops and sweeties and things as well. But they are very, very interested. And they often ask, like, do my bugs like this?

Yeah, the pet. The pet's in their tummy. Yeah, Maggie. we talked about this the other week about kind of visualising for children this idea about their microbiome and talking about instead of maybe gut bugs out having a pet in their tummy that they can feed. Sky has just a singular giraffe but Mays now literally got a zoo. It starts with like one hamster and one ginnie pick and then it was two of each and suddenly it's like a mummy one and a daddy one and loads and loads of baby ones. That's so sweet. My boys are just like tiger lion.

I mean she's got like a whole menagerie in her stomach. I'll tell you what I have been so into, as you guys probably know, I've been on my sourdough journey. Okay, can you give us a little bit of low down? Because it looked, the loaf you made recently that you shared looked perfect. It looked like the most I think I've cracked it. If I'm going to be honest, I can say that. I feel like I've cracked it and I just love making it. There's something, as you know, I've been learning to slow down this year after kind of just

an insane decade or so building a business and I'm trying to recalibrate and go a bit more slowly for a little bit. And what I really like about sourdough is there's something about it. that delayed gratification of you know it takes 24 306 hours to make a loaf of bread and there's something about the appreciation at the end of that which I love but also we've been doing as you guys probably know a big building work project at our new house which we are getting to the end of how's the kitchen now well the kitchen is bombsite it is a yeah it's not good we're like midway through changing the kitchen so I have been obsessed with things on toast and I just wanted

to shout that out because I always think you'd a bit like porridge taste something just gets this terrible wrap. But actually, it's just the best carrier. And the thing that I'd be making that I'm obsessed with is blitzing up peas, just blanch some peas for a few minutes, with a tin or a jar of white beans, like carrot beans, butter beans, whichever ones you've got. Lots of tahini, loads of lemon, a little bit of yogurt, salt and pepper. Oh my gosh, it's so good, thick, creamy. Slather that on toast. Just the win of all wins. I actually really wish I had that right now to really help me against my overconsumption of coffee. consuming clearly a breakfast. I've got a prep porridge with me, but I'd much rather have you a

delicious toast. Although I have to say, it's quite nice to have a warm breakfast when you get into town after work. It's like a, there's something about warm food, isn't there? I totally, totally agree. Okay, what have we got? We've got a lot this week actually in the health headlines that matter. So if you're new to the show, welcome. This is the section we just look at the biggest held stories you've probably seen across the news, Netflix, podcasts, wherever you're looking for your info and break them down for you. what's the first one today? Well, I wanted to a quick pick-up because it was International Women's Day.

And I feel like obviously for us, you know, as two women in business and here on the podcast, I feel it's important to just talk about it a little bit and touch on it. And the only angle I can obviously come from staying in my lane is the nutritional science field or just science in general. And I've got some stats here because we've actually seen some improvement in the science community. But the stats are obviously still low because women are underline. represented and we've come into everything pretty late. So as of 2024 to 2026, women make up to roughly one third. So that's around like 33 to 35 percent of the global scientific research

community. So while the absolute number of women in science, tech, engineering and mathematics, which I'll just call STEM, basically the STEM area of that science area, has increased, surprisingly one million in the UK alone. They do remain unrepresented around the world. And And global research says roughly 33% of researchers are women. In the G20 countries, women hold only 22% of those STEM positions. And in the EU, in 2022, 41% of scientists and engineers in the EU were women. I've got loads of different stats here, but obviously in low parity regions, in some countries, women make up to less than 10% of researchers. and I wanted to just bring some positive facts for International Women's Day,

but equally, just say, I find it quite, I was thinking about this last night on social media, I find it a hard day to talk about because I feel that if you share anything as a woman, you're critiqued anyway and getting it right, and you can share you, I just shared my nutrition journey and hoping it inspires somebody else, but perhaps that's not seen in the right way either. and I'm not placed to talk about geopolitics and I'm not placed to talk about, you know, the inequalities in the world. I feel quite emotional about it because there's so much that you can feel and want to say,

but I feel like if you say it, you would just be judged for saying it. Well, I always think there's an interesting thing where, and certainly I've seen it a huge amount, and I think it's very, very common, is that successful women, if they, quote unquote, show off, are boasting successful men, on the other hand, are just like, smashing life. So yes, I think wildly successful men are applauded and generally and too often very successful

women are seen as boasting. Yeah, narcissistic, boasting. There's that completely. So it's an interesting one. I wanted to raise it because we obviously need to keep. It's so important more than ever, I feel, International Women's Day, but it's a really difficult one to navigate. Yeah, I completely, completely agree.

Okay, we're going to move on to something very different, which is. is vegetarians less likely to get five types of cancer. A study of 1.8 million people is the first to quantify how dietary patterns affect the risk of different cancers. So it's one of the largest analysis as we've ever seen looking at diet patterns and cancer risk and it came from researchers at Oxford Population Health. They pulled data from more than 1.8 million people across nine long run studies. So mainly in the UK, the US.

And those participants were followed up for up to two decades. and completed detailed food questionnaires to assess their diets. Of course, food questionnaires always a bit of an interesting research tool, but this is still long-term data on a very large scale, so we like this. It was funded by the World Cancer Research Fund, just FYI, but I don't think that should impact any bias there at all. And it was published in the British Journal of Cancer, and it definitely looked at about 17 different types of cancer types.

Exactly. Okay, and I mean, this was just headlines everywhere. It was everywhere. I'm sure you all saw it. But in the wrong way. It was quite confusing, I think. So that's what we really wanted to break down today. So as we said, 1.8 million people involved in these different studies.

1.64 million, so almost all of them were meat eaters. And on average, they consumed around 50 grams of meat per day. Now, that's actually really quite a small amount of meat per day. That would be the equivalent of, say, one sausage or two slices of ham, which actually is very little. So it's important to know that within this, people are eating kind of under the... What that I think they do eat, to be honest. It's not a huge amount. And we know the advice is to limit red and processed meat to know more than 70 grams per day. So these people are eating under that. So I think that's really important to know. But these were the headline stats that were picked up

everywhere. So compared with meat eaters, vegetarians had 21% lower risk of pancreatic cancer, 12% lower risk of prostate cancer, 9% lower risk of breast cancer. And combined those three cancers account for about a fifth of cancer deaths in the UK. So they're very prevalent. And as well as that, vegetarians also had 28% lower risk of kidney cancer and 31% lower risk of multiple myeloma. So it's very interesting. People who ate poultry but avoided red meat had a slightly lower cancer risk

than those who ate all types of meat. So, yeah, there was a kind of broad pattern when it looked across the diets that those containing little or no meat were linked to a lower risk, sometimes meaningfully so, up to a third or so of several cancers. But there was then one very confusing part. The big butt that was the headline everywhere. Yeah, I'll let you take that way, Rui. Yeah, so we've mentioned it's observational data here, of course.

You can't do cause and effect. But, you know, they did adjust for factors as well. Body weight was taken into account, alcohol, smoking, you know, other lifestyle factors that, of course, can impact your health. But I'm going to skip over to the bit that was really confusing. Confusing. Okay. So it came down to vegan diets and important nuance on bowel cancer. So there was no evidence in the study to say that vegetarians had a lower risk of bowel cancer compared with meat eaters, which is confusing as anything.

Because we know, concretely speaking, that that's been proven in many. other pools of research. And the research has suggested this may be because, like Heller said at the beginning, the average meat intake was actually really low in this pool of data. 50 grams is actually below the 70 grams guidance. That's a really good thing. But the vegans in the study showed a higher risk of bowel cancer compared to meat eaters. And that is confusing with vegetarians nearly twice as likely to develop osophosurgyl squamous cell carcinoma. So research suggested that lower intake of nutrients such as calcium and B12 actually now could play a role in cancer. So again, dietary labels alone don't determine risk. It's also the quality of overall diet. Yeah. So basically, we're going to

go into this. Don't worry. It was very confusing because the headlines are saying vegetarian diet reduces risk of five of the key types of cancer that we see. That was everywhere. That was in the data. But then at the same time, it's showing that a vegan diet then increases your risk of bowel cancer and a vegetarian diet increases your risk of esophageal squamous cell carcinoma. That's incredibly confusing. How has anybody meant to extrapolate something from this? It's the ultimate thing of like, well, what shall I do? Well, also, it goes against everything that literature has previously stated.

So that's why I thought we should get somebody to go into the study itself, break it all down. And we've got an amazing voice note from Rosie Martin, who's a registered dietitian who can analyze all of this for us. Hi, Ella. Hi, hi, Rie. Thank you for flagging this headline about vegans, vegetative. and cancer risk. So this is actually a really decent study overall. It pulled together nine studies, including about 1.8 million people across the UK, US, Taiwan and India, and it followed them for about 16 years. And they found that vegetarians had lower rates of five cancers, pancreatic,

breast, prostate, kidney and multiple myeloma. Vigens, interestingly, were found to have higher rates of bowel cancer, which surprised a lot of people. But this isn't something vegans need to panic about. One big limitation is that people were grouped by what they didn't eat and not what they did eat. And in practice, someone telling me they're vegan tells me nothing about the quality of their diet. This study didn't measure diet quality at all. Veganism is a belief system that seeks to exclude all forms of exploitation and cruelty to animals. And nutritionally, that can look very different from a whole food, fiber-rich diet to one built mostly around things like chips and vegan ice cream. When we look at the wider evidence that does consider

diet quality, the message is very consistent. More fibre and whole plant foods are linked to a lower risk of bowel cancer. So the finding here is a bit of an outlier and it may relate to diet quality or possibly calcium intake. So many of the studies were from the 1990s and early 2000s when fortified plant milks and other similar foods were far less common than they are now and calcium does matter for bowel cancer risk. It's also really worth noting that only about 0.5% of people in the study were vegan, which makes it very hard to draw any strong conclusions from this group, and that's something the authors themselves point out. So the big picture doesn't change. Diets high in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds, herbs and spices are best for cancer prevention.

Reducing or removing meat is likely to be beneficial for reducing the risk of certain cancers, and vegan diets, like any other diet, should be based on whole plant foods with some basics in place, such as a B12 supplement and a good quantity of calcium-rich foods. I hope that helps. I think it's unbelievably helpful to have that breakdown because when you realize it's such a small sample of vegans, you don't know what they were actually eating in terms of quality, like she said, how much fibre, how much calcium. And I think differentiating between calcium sources for vegetarian diets is so different.

It pretends if they're lacto-vegetarians, over-vegetarians, you know, what type of produce they eat. And that means vegetarians are able to have cheese and yogurt and things alongside their normal diet. So they'll have more of an abundant array of sources of calcium. So talk us through sources of calcium. Obviously, I'm sure everyone listening is super, super aware, milk, cheese, yogurt, kind of core dairy products, very rich sources of calcium. As an adult, roughly how much of that would you want to be having a day to, for, your calcium intake. I'd say two to three portions of food that contain calcium as like a rough guide, but that includes almonds. That's what I was going to ask. Tell us away from your kind of

very obvious dairy sources of calcium, what else contains calcium? Well, there's some different what I call unreliable sources come from vegetables, leafy greens. They're not as reliable because of oxalates and the way you break them down in your body. So I'd prefer people if they're vegan especially to make sure they have those fortified foods, first of all. If you're buying tofu, get calcium set if you've got. Chardron is the main UK brand, right? There's calcium set tofu. I think it's sold in pretty much every single soup. Yeah, I get

that for the boys because I know that it's got a calcium and protein hit for them in there as well. And of course plant milks that have, I can't call the milks anymore, but whatever I call them now. That's illegal. Plant drinks. But it's really nuts seeds. Dried fruit even contains calcium. Figs do. Dried figs. I think we spoke about figs the other week. One of my favorite fruits in the world.

Figs contain. it. Broccoli contains bits of calcium. So if you're a plant-based eater that eats very well, you are likely to get a lot, but I would still encourage fortification if you are vegan. I think it's really important. You don't want to be supplementing calcium, which is interesting. Why not? You can't measure it in a blood test in the same way that you can because it's constantly turning over our bone development and where we store it and how it's released. So what you really want to be doing as a vegan is just getting those extra fortified foods in. And if you are concerned at all, speak to your GP.

They'll talk you through all the different ways of having a look at it. But, yeah, I would 100% just think if the reason this study is definitely not indicative of the majority of diets is because, yeah, it doesn't take into account the people's education around food and what they're doing. But as Rosie said, it's very interesting. And this is why we make this show, because it's so confusing sometimes a headline versus reality. And what we're looking at is exactly like a title of what people do, what people, people don't eat as opposed to like the actual quality of what they're eating, which is incredibly helpful. And I think even oranges contain calcium, by the way. I'm just trying to look up how much I can't remember.

But just a little fact to throw in there, it's the foods you don't expect a lot of the time. Which is why I'm fed up with people demonising fruit, to be honest with you. So tahini is a classic, really good sauce. You can make my dip, I mentioned at the beginning. We can make Ella's dip, put it on your toast, well, soy products like we've mentioned already, seeds, nuts, bait beans can contain some calcium, pulses. So really, in a plant-based diet, if you're eating a variety of foods, like I discuss with my fibre hype at the moment, but it's all about variety and try not to eat the same foods

every single day, and then you're more likely to be hitting your goals. But it's definitely something women particularly need to be aware of calcium, especially looking at bone health rates and osteopeno osteoporosis rates in this country, it's really important. Yeah. So I think as a summary, this headline was incredibly confusing. Don't worry if you were confused by the fact that it felt contradictory. I think it would have been difficult not to. But really the messages from decades of research, including the kind of fundamentals

of this, are we really want to be building our meals around fibre diversity, plant rich. You don't need to be plant-based. You don't need to be vegetarian. But you want to have loads of different plants in your life. those pets and your gut. And keep meat minimum. If you eat meat and you consume it, the people in the study had about 50 grams a day. It's very little.

That is very little. And if you're looking to cut down, then just cut down to that amount roughly. I think that's a really nice part of the study, despite the confusing vegan headline, was the fact that it's good. I totally, totally agree. And then just be aware, I know it's difficult with life going at 100 miles an hour for everyone, but just be aware of those core vitamins and minerals because really, really, big nutrient deficiencies can really be a problem. And this one, I think, really highlights the calcium issue here. With the bowel cancer risk. And as we know, bowel cancer is now the leading cause of

cancer in the US. It's the fourth cause of cancer here in the UK. And fiber contributes and quality diets to 50 to 60% of cases that are preventable if you eat well. So let's get those nutrients in, everyone. Yeah. And also it did flag as well that if you are eating a plant-based diet or mostly plant-based diet. Obviously, we just mentioned calcium, but you do really want to be supplementing B-12 as well. Yes, that's 100% if you're vegan, B-12. In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees earn an average of over $24.50 an hour. Employees also have the opportunity to grow their skills and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills training programs for in-demand fields like software development and information technology.

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I'm about adding more in, not cutting things out, no fads, no diets, just evidence and transparency. And right now in the UK, everyone, 96% of us, that's 96% are not getting enough fibre. It's one of the lowest figures in the world. And I couldn't ignore it. So we've spent years obsessing over protein and other trends. And I'm delighted to share that after a year in the making, my new book, the fibre formula is available to purchase.

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on. So the next headline is are we in the middle of a global mental health breakdown, Ella? Yes, I actually came across this headline, interestingly enough, on Tim Specter, who founded Zoe. on his substack. Interestingly, I searched and searched, having read most of the report, and just didn't find it picked up anywhere else because there was this big new analysis from a group called Sapien Labs using the mental health quotient, which basically tracks mind health across more than a million people

in over 20 countries. And they're placing individuals on a continuum, essentially from distress to thriving, which I really likes, less black and white. They take a score out of 100. to represent the expected average for a mentally healthy population, which is really interesting. And basically what this data from this big new publication showed,

it was this extraordinary generational divide. It doesn't surprise me. Adults age 55 and older have remained, I think, relatively stable since measurements began in 2019. And that makes perfect sense because they've had the grounding of a world before tech, with diets being more whole food-based, predominantly you'd like to think. and their average scores sit close to population norms and roughly 10% fall into categories indicating that their clinically significant mental health challenges.

Whereas younger adults, they show the dramatic picture. And this is why I'm so concerned about children's mental health as well at the moment. So the stats we have, adults under 35 have an average MHQ score in the highs of 30s to low 40s globally. And around 40 to 45% of them fall into the distressed or struggling range. So they are approximately four times more likely to report significant mental health problems than those over 60. I know, exactly. So that's the score of like 30s to low 40s out of 100. I mean, that's a pretty low general kind of happiness score essentially. And then in the UK, because as we said, this is global.

But in the UK, that gap is actually especially stark. And it's very similar to what we see in the US as well, where that generational split, is huge. So for those age 55 plus, they're getting 78 out of 100 MHQ scores. So for kind of general mental health happiness index, I think 78 out of 100 is pretty good. If I got 78% on a test, I'd be pretty pleased. Me too. But for those under 35, just 20. I know. It's shocking. 20%. I mean, it's so low. And interestingly, I'm sure you guys have seen this as well. Obviously, we used to have this huge concern that older generations were the loneliest and actually that's flipped it's actually the younger generations now according to the UK Office for National Statistics that actually show

that the younger generations 16 to 29 at the most are actually the loneliest and if you look at 16 to 29 up to a third of them feel lonely often always or some of the time yeah whereas 70 and over is just 16%. There's so much to be said for the 55 plus generation that are heavily dependent on social interaction because they weren't raised with tech. And I think if we look at some of the factors that Tim described in his substack,

I completely utterly agree with it. I think it's a fantastic article and feature to pick up on because he writes that while the pandemic may have accelerated the decline, obviously, of social interaction in a way, this pattern also appears in countries that were less effective by lockdowns. So there is something much more broader and structural going on. I totally agree.

We can link to the substack because it's free to read. But people are so quick to say, oh, it's all COVID. It's all COVID. And I think what he's saying and then reading the report as well is people are saying, it's actually a bit of a red herring. And it's really easy to blame COVID. And COVID was clearly not a helpful factor in this loneliness and challenged with mental health. But it's not the only thing at play here.

And actually what the report identified was for. kind of key things which are driving this poor mental health and younger people growing up with smartphones from early childhood. The hypothesis here being it's not just about simply screen time, but disrupted sleep, reduced in person socialisation, this weird kind of exposure that we then have to comparison and a chronic state of cognitive stimulation, which I think we all can relate to that sense of overstimulation. Obviously, as we always talk about, high consumption of UPFs, it's so easy to just flash over this. It doesn't matter what we eat. What we eat has the most extraordinary impact on our mood. Well, we have to remember that the food we eat feeds the gut bacteria, which plays a role with

serotonin, which plays a role with inflammation. And we know there's so much research now that it's linked to mental health and the stat that we have is 4% of us get enough fiber. Fibers the food for the gut. So because UPFs are so high, we're just packing our diets full of things that aren't helping our mental health, the sugar, the salt that make our health deteriorate. And then it's a vicious cycle of poor health, not eating well, needing healthcare, mental health going down. Totally. And there was this line, we're asking younger generations to live in environments that are biologically and physiologically hostile and then acting surprised when mental health collapses. And I really like that because I completely agree. And on like a day to day basis,

like I certainly see it in myself, in my kids. Like if they just watch three hours of screens and eat snacks, they are terrorists. And it's easy to be like, oh, they're really over-seeing. simulated yet they're really horrid actually in the end of that then you can see how that keeps going it alters the brain is crazy we have to remember our brains aren't fully um developed emotionally speaking until i think it's around the age of 25 so maturity and processing and thought processing which is a lot older than i think i guess at 21 i thought i obviously had a fully developed brain and you don't until around 25 obviously that figure may vary but it goes to show how key these younger years are And then the next point was, of course, the weaker family and social bonds because I've noticed in the UK, Ella and I are both not close to family and we don't have the village, as they say, in that way.

And I'm sure many people listening don't. And you're very lucky if you do because that's just not a thing anymore. Yeah, as it we don't live really nearby family. No, so we don't have the support. And younger cohorts report lower levels of perceived social support. Cohesion, loneliness, delayed life milestones, economic insecurity. I mean, gosh, the world right. now is absolutely terrifying and more transient living arrangements that may all contribute to this reduced protective, you know, buffering against stress because we are constantly living in a state of fight or flight and unsure what is happening financially, the world. No, it's really concerning. And then the fourth point was just on lower levels of spirituality or

sense of meaning, which is really interesting. That's interesting because I guess people that have faith have something to cling on to and perhaps more hope. Well, it creates community as well. And we know that community is one of and feeling connected to other people is the ultimate driver of health fundamentally. It's like one of the main drivers in longevity and you know that sense of being part of something we know is so important to us. Anyway, it's just a really interesting report. Again, we can link to it if you want to read the whole thing. It's quite long. But I think for all of us, you know, we all have young people in our lives, nieces, nephews, cousins, friends, neighbours, you know, whatever it is. And I think it's difficult not to look at it. It's difficult not to look at

the environment that they're growing up in and think, gosh, it's actually really hard to be happy. And I think to me, that's something I've had in the back of my head in this report really highlighted, which is why I was keen to talk about it. It highlights the privilege because those different barriers, out of all four of them, depending economically where you are. Is it going to be the food that's the issue? Is it going to be the smartphone use? Is it going to be the support or the call?

You know, I think once again, it makes the poverty divide bigger and bigger because the lower down you are. and the more you're struggling, you are unlikely to meet a lot of that. And that screen time is a treat for your child because you can't provide the food. There is so much hair that's broken. Yeah. No, there really is. So. Okay.

That was quite a heavy, Ella. I think it's also, again, it's just that reminder what we really matters and not to simplify it. But got to feed those bugs, guys, because they really impact our mental health. Fiber gap is real. Okay. Our third and final headline of today. Oh, gosh. Collagen is no quick fix for wrinkles, experts say.

I mean, don't we know it, Ella? This was everywhere. Yay. It came from a large systematic review that was published in the Aesthetic Surgery Journal Open Forum. And it analyzed data for more than 8,000 participants across multiple randomized controlled trials investigating oral collagen supplementation. Now, interestingly, a lot of things you'll see out there is so much marketing for collagen and just for context here. The global supplement industry is worth something around the tune of 150 billion pounds per year. And midlife women are among the core customers and targeted like there's no tomorrow, as we all know.

Well, they're the ones that also in the world of books, they're the ones that are buying the most books. And they're targeted with everything, aren't they left, right and centre? For sure. And last year in the UK, you got a poll show that collagen was the UK's most popular supplement. get this, taken by 15% of women, which I think is enormous. When we're still not getting our vitamin D and our rates are below what we're expected, that is outrageous. And I think what to me was interesting here was the fact that actually, as I said, when you go to buy collagen, you go into a brand's website, they will hit you as such compelling stats. But that's from their research.

And influencer marketing. Whereas what we're seeing here is a analysis of multiple randomized control trials. So this is kind of gold standard versus what a brand would love you to believe. I'm not saying they're lying. I'm just saying it's a different thing. If it's their study, they're not going to publish it on their website. If it doesn't say what they'd like it to say, obviously. And the question the researchers were asking, which is, I'm sure, something that you have all asked and we have all asked too,

is do collagen supplements meaningfully improve skin and are the claims justified? I know. And I just want to add a little bit of kindness to you all. because gosh, it's so hard. Ella and I first to say, wow, it's so convincing you get pulled in. It's a promise. You know, aging in a world where people aren't aging around you is very strange. It is so strange.

I saw one of my really, really good friends last week, which was so nice. And we were talking about exactly this. I'm about to turn 35, she's 35. And we were saying it just feels like this moment where you realize, okay, look in the mirror. So there's some gray hairs. There's some more wrinkles. and I know ageing is privileged and I feel that really deeply but you can feel your body's changing and your face is changing

and you're doing it kind of yeah in a context where it feels like increasingly no one ages and people who are kind of 45 look like they're 25 and it's just incredibly confusing yeah we were watching this thing on Netflix of Rachel Weiss yesterday Vladimir yes I really want to watch it I just started it and we'll talk about it on Thursday I'll get to the end because I didn't finish the episode I think she's a fantastic actress. She's obviously very beautiful, but she just looks very different.

And it's so interesting because they must feel the pressure so much. But also the role models as we age, there's less of those that are sticking to the whole natural aging thing now. I'm feeling the pressure, curious. What our listeners are feeling. But here we go. What they had is basically the answer is nuanced. It's not the collagen is totally pointless. But. Yeah, but that's because you can get collagen from food anyway. So let's say, What they were basically saying is essentially it's not quite all it's cracked up to be. And what that was was that if you're consistently supplementing with collagen across a sustained period of time, now bearing in mind that's not a cheap thing to do, there was an association with some improvement in skin elasticity and hydration. Now you can definitely improve your skin hydration without taking a supplement.

Just drink more water as well. I mean, that could have helped taking it with water or liquid. Yeah, and they said these effects were measurable, but very important to say, they were modest. They were not described as transformative, nor were they immediate. So you've got to really invest in this for the long term. And importantly, and this is what really got picked up for the headlines, the researchers, was super key to emphasize, that therefore collagen shouldn't be framed as a quick fix for wrinkles. It's not.

They said it should be better understood as part of an inside-out model of skin maintenance, So it can support deeper dermal structure, but it is not a superficial cosmetic solution. And I think that's really important. It can't act like a topical filler. It can't fill out your wrinkles. It can't give you a facelift. And I think that's the big misconception is that our faces will drop as we age. And I think people almost expect it not to.

But a lot of the time the people advertising these supplements have so much Botox and filler and treatments done. It's really hard to see any. I hate all of that, the before and after pictures, you know, because they're so misleading. completely. But there were consistent benefit that weren't cosmetic. And I think, remember when we first talked about collagen is exactly what we were saying. There was collagen supplementation was associated with reductions in arthritis symptoms. Joint health, yeah. Yeah, joint stiffness and pain. And in that context, supplements appeared to function more as agents of connective tissue support and regeneration than as beauty products. So for individuals with joint discomfort, struggling with that, the evidence base may actually be stronger than for. for wrinkle reduction, which it's just not that strong for. And I think that's so interesting because I remember talking about this with you, right? And we were like, the challenge is you take collagen. It's really expensive.

The kind of most supplements would cost you about £25 a month. If you're going to take it daily, that obviously very much adds up because you've got to take it for years to get that benefit. But your body isn't going to differentiate whether it goes to your face to support aging or whether it goes to your little toe or your knees. And it turns out it is going more to your knees and your little. to how, which obviously if you're struggling with arthritis symptoms could be really interesting. And I think based on this could genuinely be interesting to look into if that's relevant for you. But in that case, you could be taking bone broth or you could be eating soups with chicken and all sorts of things that would have, I would argue, probably a better impact long term. For collagen support.

Yeah, talk to us about because collagen doesn't have to also only come from a supplement. What else can we be doing? Remember, when you take anything in a supplement, the synthetic, it's not in the whole food original form, which means it's less bioavailable on your body. It's just a fact that supplements fill gaps, they will never replace the benefits of whole food. And if you're eating enough protein, which naturally contains collagen, and collagen works alongside vitamin C, and they work nicely to maintain your skin structure and formation. And ultimately, a balanced diet. I know this sounds awful, but we are not eating a balanced diet. I mean, 4% of us get enough fibre in this country, a fifth of adults get their five a day.

And ultimately, we are looking at a crisis of healthy eating where we're also not eating good quality protein. So because of the amount of processed meat, you're not helping your collagen there. You want meat in its natural form if you're a meat eater. You really want to be looking at that. And ultimately, remember the car, the engine. If you're just putting the end product into a body that's not working on metabolizing things well anyway, We're not going to see a massive pickup. So I feel like this, I hope that this has been really helpful for anyone listening

that was really uming and aering still on collagen. I know that there is another way. But I understand the pull of how supplements are much easier. For sure. And I think what collagen's doing in particular with skin is helping hydration. There are so many great syrams out there that will help you with hydration. And just drink more water and, yeah. You don't need to take it.

Exactly. Yeah. Walnuts, everyone, avocados. But then I would argue that those that are buying collagen supplements have the financial means to do so. So if you have the financial means to buy collagen, you have the financial means to support your diet in a different way too. So it's an interesting one. Okay, so from collagen to, I mean another trend, what is trending in wellness? There's a group called the Global Wellness Summit and they have just released their annual trends report, which is quite fun. This is one of the longest running and most detailed forecast in the health and wellness. industry and every year they basically identify the kind of 10 major shifts or things that are expected to have a huge impact on the global health and wellness economy in the year ahead. Obviously, that's very interesting to us. But what I was so fascinated by in this huge report, there's 10 things. We can go through more.

But the three things that were really picked up that I thought was super interesting for us in the wellness scoop. Number one, the over-optimization backlash. Number two, all about the nervous system, neuro-wellness goes mainstream. and number three, which is nuts, and I feel really this is your bag, ready is the new well, which is basically all about like protection

from impending disasters and how crazy the world is. So should we talk about those three? It's definitely my back, because as you know, I was messaging LES time. I'm really struggling with what's going on in the world right now.

It's really hard. So much so, I said, oh my goodness, is it even safe to travel into town today, didn't I? I think we're okay. I think we're okay. And I said, okay. Right, let's go number one, over optimization backlash, because we are living through a modern

well-being paradox, let's face it, it's never been before this crazy, everything's measurable. We want everything that's physiologically possible to be tracked, to be tracked from sleep to glucose, age, you know, how young are we compared to our actual age? Everyone wants to know, or are we older? It's something that I feel that we need to be really aware of. And research now shows actually, as I think we've discussed on here, that excessive tracking can actually increase anxiety, reduce the trust in our own bodily cues and even distort our perception of how we feel?

100%. As you said, Re, it's this very odd paradox where we've never been able to get more data or info about our health. Yet being, quote unquote, well or engaging in wellness has never been so psychologically. And I would say also from a time perspective demanding. So really to kind of do wellness these days, it feels like you've got to do an insane amount of thing. And what I was just actually just so thrilled about because I feel so frustrated I know you do by this all as well because it just feels insane

and so far removed from all wellness to me really is, which is those core basics and focusing on those. But the great news is that we've got optimization fatigue. We are not alone. We are all fed up with this insanity

and we've got to get back to basics. I mean, let's use an example of remember, are you wearing the aura? No, you gave that. I hated it. I hated it. See, I was up, my little one was,

up at four last night. So there is no way I need to see that on an aura ring or an app. I know I was up at 4 a.m. I know I'm dying. I literally am exhausted. I don't need to see it written down. No, and I think it's too much. Like what good does it do me? What can I change? Nothing. Yeah, exactly. There's like trying your best and then there's just trying to fit in something that feels like completely impossible. And I think it's just incompatible with like getting on the train or driving to work and spending the day at your desk. And I find it's so frustrating because I think it's these algorithms and a kind of influencer economy. Well, it's the strive for perfectionism with mental health being low.

But it's not compatible with normal life in any shape or form. And I just find that really annoying. Anyway, global data shows rising wellness burnout, which not that I love that, but I maybe I thought maybe this is going to be, you know, a shifting tide where we all say, okay, stop measuring everything. We don't need it. Let's not be scared of fruit anymore. our glucose. Let's not track everything under the sun. Let's just actually tune back into ourselves. How do I feel today? I feel tied because I was up at 4 in the morning. Okay, I'm going to make myself a breakfast that will help my energy. Like you've got porridge.

Just like little things. Am I really optimistic? I think I'm optimistic. Yes, I think you are. But do know what? I love it. I love it. I just am approached left, right and center at the moment from AI tech companies wanting to do health apps and all sorts of things. And it's just for me, consulting, you know, my business nutrition, we consult for lots of different health brands and do nutritional analysis. Everyone's doing AI apps and health tech apps. And I don't see it going backwards, but I think it should. I think this is going to be another issue in 10 years where we look back and say this caused bad mental health. I think so exactly. It's like no more. I love your optimism, Ella. I love that speech.

I'm going to keep it today, guys. Yeah, so like delete performance calls. And I like this idea, instead of how can I improve this metric or that metric. It's like, how do I actually feel right now? Exactly. What would help me right now? Is it a glass of water? Is it just a little bit of fresh air? Is it just two minutes of breathing?

Fresh air. Can I just say? Fresh air. I mean, wow. What a transformative thing in the morning. I know. But how weird is it that we're so disconnected from like normal day-to-day health and wellness that we're like, guys, fresh air is revolutionary?

I know. Instead of looking at your whoop or whatever it is, go get some fresh air. go and speak to someone who exists that you know instead of watching some complete stranger and their cat doing a four-hour morning routine, which I do too. I love the cat Instagram, so I could go off from that. So number two is neuro-wellness goes mainstream. So the modern life that keeps our nervous system in a near constant state of activation.

And now we've got neuro-wellness emerging as a critical new frontier in the health focused on regulation, recovery and resilience before that breakdown. So it's more of a preventative measure. Yeah, I have seen this everywhere. So I thought this was quite interesting as well, which is that our nervous system, we know, kind of fight or flight or rest and digest. We are living in this wildly stimulating world. We've got really blood work boundaries.

You know, we stay up really late on our phones. There's wars in the world. Constantly been spoken about. The news is terrifying, huge global uncertainty. It's really normal to have a kind of chronic state of activation and feel like, yeah, this chronic state of stress. And that sustained stress, as we've talked about so many times, this linked to poor sleep, anxiety, inflammation, cognitive fog.

Like, it is not good for us. We know that. And I think there's something interesting, as long as it doesn't become too measured, about trying to focus on those simple tools that just gently shift us through bits of the day back into that sense of rest, digest, just calm, because I think we all need it. Yeah, we really do. And it draws on neuroscience, behavioral science.

So some practices, sensory design, there's now consumer neurotechnology to train the nervous system. So we do go back to those tracking apps again and things that are here rather than treat disease. So unlike traditional brain or mental health care, it focuses on, you know, building capacity and flexibility before the pathway appears. But to do that, you need to target younger generations of tech. And I also think this is an interesting one because we almost need meditation less. Do you know, my son actually knows what meditation is because at school they've obviously done something about it. My girls too.

Yeah, and I haven't done that with them. Yeah, they have, funnily enough, my younger daughter had a complete tantrum, like a full breakdown at lunch yesterday. Yeah. So we went outside the park. Yeah, fresh air. Table next to us aren't really enjoying this tantrum under the table.

Oh, that's hard that. I really dislike those moments. Yeah, they're just like anyway. And I was like, okay, let's just take a few breaths. And she started doing this breathing thing. She's been taught at school. she's five. Yeah.

So if all schools did that, I mean, how amazing would that be? And I think when we talk about preventive health, we all need to take it on board for ourselves now, but let's try and instill it in the future generations. And leads us on to number three. Ready. Ready is the new world. This was the other one we wanted to pick up from the report before we closed today's episode. I shouldn't say it made me laugh because it's just there's nothing funny about this.

But again, it's this kind of insanity of the world that we live in where the third trend in terms of health and wellness is this sense of being ready for disaster. Having a disaster plan might become as essential. Well, maybe I'm a trendsetter in all ways, can I just say with my World War III box, but we're talking about health here more than anything else. Again, I would argue this is also quite anxiety-provoking, 100%.

And interesting, I think, within this is this idea that they were giving advice and saying, actually, if you want to be really forward-thinking company in the wellness space, maybe we should be thinking about how do we support those living and chronic fear of what might happen and the kind of huge global shifts and instability that we're seeing at the moment because if you do listen to 24-7 news cycles 24-7, it is very difficult not to feel concerned and there is huge emotional fallout of all of that

because that instability obviously becomes harder and harder to ignore at the moment. So actually quite practical ideas again about reducing that anxiety. But it's an element of control and I have to say, I know we can all all laugh at me and my little traits with it and I'm very open to that. But honestly, it gives me a sense of control, knowing that I'm preparing for the worst in a very strange way, like always having that first aid kit. I've got one in the car and the boot. I've got one under the pram. I've got fire blankets on the top floor on the bottom floor. You know, like just little things that I know sound probably to anyone listening, like Rhee, you have issues. But to me, I'm like, well, do you

know what? Something happens. I know where it is. And therefore it makes me feel better. I am ready. is the new well ready is the new well that is me i love it okay well guys be ready for a great week it was so nice to see you here we will see you on thursday for episode a hundred of the wellness group please let us know if you've been listening the whole time because it's just a mega milestone for us so we really appreciate it we appreciate you i hope you guys have a fantastic week super mega thank you everybody see you thursday bye bye