The Wellness Scoop - Ella Mills: finding purpose and putting mental health first

Episode Date: January 25, 2023

Welcome to Wellness with Ella, the next evolution of the Deliciously Ella podcast, where entrepreneur Ella Mills and her guests share their stories of personal transformation through the lens of vulnerability. How did they get to where they are today? What were the biggest challenges her guests have faced? What wellness practices and habits really moved the needle for them? How do they keep moving forward?  To launch the new season, Ella is interviewed by Deliciously Ella’s Digital Director, Charlotte Clark, to unpack her own journey from a debilitating health condition in her early 20s to founding Deliciously Ella, her challenges with mental health, finding purpose, and why it took her 30 years to find happiness; as well as the hurdles and setbacks along the way and the tools Ella swears by to feel her best.   They discuss: Ella’s experience suffering from a debilitating health condition in her early 20s Navigating mental health alongside physical health challenges Ella’s catalyst moment for looking at diet to improve her health How sharing her journey with plant-based cooking online changed Ella’s life Figuring out who you are whilst being in the spotlight Accepting that life isn’t linear Taking responsibility for your own health & happiness Ella’s daily-ish non-negotiables to support her physical and mental health   Links: Use code podcast20 to get 20% off the Feel Better App  Ella’s Wellness Toolkit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. Welcome to Wellness with Ella, the Deliciously Ella podcast. This is a podcast that aims to inspire you, to empower you, to leave you feeling uplifted. As each week, I want to share what wellness really looks like as we unpack the simple tools that have helped each one of our guests turn a negative into a positive and unlock true happiness and genuine health. And by health I don't mean the way they look, I mean energy, excitement, fulfillment. How can we all get a little bit more from our lives. I first started this podcast five years ago and it's evolved and it's iterated since then as I've learned more and more about the world of

wellness and what I've really come to realize in that time is that whilst the world of wellness has so much good in it there is also a downside. The world of wellness is, as we know, contradictory and confusing. It can be rigid and dogmatic. It's a multi-trillion dollar industry which frequently exists on the inherent implication that you need to fix yourself. You need to emulate a certain person or follow a very set pathway. It can feel as though the game of self-development is perpetual but to what end? In the decade that I've worked in this industry and the 100 plus leading experts I've been lucky enough to talk to on our podcast so far, I've really and very firmly arrived at the conclusion that wellness does need reframing. Away from aesthetics, away from quick fixes and fads.

It can all feel a little shiny a little bit false not that relatable in places and I believe instead to really help ourselves we're going to have to replace that superficial with true healing with conversations of what's really going on under the surface what do our struggles look like and how do we come out the other side and we're going to use simple tools to create that and to create a genuinely healthier happier life for the very long term that's the point of wellness tools in my view they're there to support you to live your happiest healthiest life more energized clearer calmer to help you feel empowered to get through difficult periods and as we'll talk about

on this show difficult periods are inevitable so we'll talk about on this show, difficult periods are inevitable. So let's use those tools not to have a six pack or superficial goals, but to get through it. We don't meditate to alleviate all stress or achieve enlightenment, but to be more present in our everyday lives, to slow down our monkey minds, to manage stress better so that we can just get more from our everyday experience. We're not exercising to look like supermodels but to feel stronger to get our endorphins flowing to boost our mental well-being. Last season we looked a lot at the confusion of the industry in depth, at the number of fads, the number of promised silver bullets that don't quite live up to the expectations most of the time and what we could be doing instead. And my biggest takeaway was the

fact that each of our guests, leading doctors, psychologists, nutritionists and thought leaders from Tim Spector to Michael Pollan, answered the question, what is wellness? With some iteration of holistic health that looked at every part of us. Not one of them mentioned a crash diet or encouraged us to forego our mental health in favor of looking a certain way, to buy expensive gadgets or jump on this year's latest trend. Instead they described wellness as incremental happiness, navigating your internal world more effectively, understanding better how you think, how you feel, feeling well in your body as well as mentally, emotionally, spiritually and best of all

stating that wellness was not about fancy spa trips, instead it's messy, it's healing, it's layered. So this season what I want to do is delve deeper into this reframing of wellness, understanding what it looks like and how it looks on all of us. The reality is that we all struggle with our mental and our physical health at points, it's just a part of life and my question is how can we use wellness and the associated tools to navigate life with more ease and get more from every day. So in each interview I really want to get to the heart of how we all feel and what's truly helped each of our guests feel better with no judgment, no expectations. I want to know what tools they've used to turn their life around. And in that, I want to make uncomfortable conversations

comfortable to normalize the messiness of being human and the fact that we rarely talk in depth about our true challenges. This is not about trying to get anyone to emulate our guests or present them as perfect, but just to know that you're never alone. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. There's just trying something new. And I've been there. I've really struggled. And whilst I've talked about elements of that, I've probably not always been completely open for fear of judgment. So I thought it was only fitting that to kick off this season, I put myself in the hot seat and talk to you totally openly, totally honestly about my own journey, my rock bottoms,

my penny drop moments and the daily-ish habits that I swear by now. And I've roped in my colleague Charlotte Clark, our digital director here at Deliciously Ella to ask me some questions, which I'm not going to lie, I'm a little bit nervous about, but I guess there are some things that I might shy away from discussing if I was going to speak to you on my own so this feels like the right way of doing it and I do believe that through this podcast there's a lot of growth that we can achieve together and I want to ensure that you get to see every facet of the real part of me in the same way that I hope that I can do that by interviewing the guests that are coming up on this show. So Charlotte is the lovely voice you'll hear shortly and I hope you like this episode and that you enjoy the rest of the season. I've listened to five of the episodes now and

I've been, I'm not just saying this, deeply moved by them all. I think there's something really special in the way that their journeys bring together some of the universal struggles that we all have, whether that's delayed happiness, a sense of perfectionism, ruminating thoughts, rock bottom moments, the realisation is that something's not right. And I hope that will collectively create a lot of inspiration. So welcome to wellness with Ella perfect okay everyone happy amazing off we go yeah so we want to start the episode getting to the heart of it straight away I think we all know you as Ella from Deliciously Ella

but who is Ella Mills? Let's start there. It's funny because I wrote that question this weekend and I hadn't quite thought about answering it myself. So I do feel in a hot seat right now. I think I'm really working it out is the honest answer. I think that's probably why I don't have the answer is that I think it's been a strange, amazing life, but a strange life in lots of ways, which is that I think I was just trying to understand who I was

at the point in which I got ill and then deliciously Ella took over my life. And then I became a mom. And I feel now only in the last like six months or so, I'm really figuring out exactly who I am, what I want want and I think what I've really realized within that is I'm actually a complete introvert my dream is just being at home I'm really antisocial I think in reality but I desperately crave a sense of mission a sense of purpose I get bored very easily and I think that's what I really want to achieve in my life and I think I'm feeling that more and more. Yeah, that's so interesting.

It's so interesting that it's been 10 years of Deliciously Ella now, hasn't it? And considering you're saying that you're such an introvert, but actually you've been the face of this huge brand that exploded as social media was exploding. It's just, it's such an interesting dichotomy. It's so interesting. And I think because everything's moved at the most extreme pace, it feels like we've been living.

It's like when you're watching TV and you do times 30, it feels like we've been living on times 30. And I think within that, you kind of become what everyone wants you to be in some ways. Not that I didn't want to be it, but I don't think I took a huge amount of time to figure out me, Ella, as as a person also as an individual because my husband Matthew if anyone doesn't know

we met and then we started working together about six weeks later we were married about nine months later and so I think it was also almost like who am I still much in the partnership, but I think because we started the business together and everything was so intense, it's almost, what do I want to get out of the business? What do I want to get out of my every single day? And remembering I'm also my own person. 100%. So you're deliciously Ella, you're a wife, you're a mum, but actually who are you? Who's Ella?

Exactly. And I think because of the intensity of everything, personally and professionally, I feel like now, early 30s, I'm actually just starting to understand it. Completely. So diving into today, how are you today? Yeah. And I so want our guests to answer this honestly. So I'll answer it honestly. I'm okay. I feel like I've had a really good few months and on this self-development journey I've really been on taking so much inspiration from last season's guests but I've been a bit of a kind of anxious wreck actually the last few days this time of year it's early December it was always quite overwhelming isn't

it I think for everyone there's this like uh intense professional rush to get everything finished before Christmas and for us January is kind of the busiest time of the year and then also yeah life with a two-year-old and a three-year-old sometimes it's the most enriching thing in the world and sometimes it can be quite overwhelming yeah absolutely so you've spoken quite openly about your health journey and how that led you to founding Deliciously Ella and the last 10 years but actually going back to the beginning where did it all start how are you feeling at the time and talk us through what happened there yeah absolutely and I think that's so what we want isn't it with this series to

understand like what is the catalyst that changes our life and I think it's obviously different isn't it on everybody and for some people it's a massive catalyst and for other people it might be a series of smaller events but I think we all deeply relate to that don't we which is that there's always things that happen either to us or around us that have such a fundamental impact on our lives and it's a moment to kind of potentially regroup maybe you're made to maybe it's something that you decide you need to do on the way you're living your life and is that how you want to live it and I think mine came about really accidentally which is obviously when I got ill back in 2011 and you know I know people

will have heard that story before and and so I'll give it to you briefly, but kind of don't worry, this whole episode will tell you lots of things you've never heard before as well. But I, going back to the question earlier of how am I feeling? I feel I'd been at university for two years at this point. And I think to be totally frank, kind of prior to that, really hadn't been very happy. I really couldn't figure out who I was, what I wanted to be, kind of where my place was. Had a relatively complicated family and I just was quite lost. And I was, especially in my kind of teenage years and my later teenage years, I was really unhappy. I didn't really make many friends at school, especially in my second school.

And I always felt quite out of place. And I'd gone to university and I'd had two years there. And I was so happy. I really figured, really felt I was enjoying myself and knew who I was. And then this illness came out of completely nowhere, really. And I felt like it kind of set me back 100 years in so many ways. And I spent all of the rest of 2011 into 2012, just kind of in a hole. And I think it took me a really, really long time to take ownership of that

and of the challenge. But my autonomic nervous system stopped working properly. And I couldn't control basically any of my bodily functions from heart rate, digestion, circulation, immune system, chronic fatigue, brain fog, kind of bit of everything. But also my mental health, I think was also so much worse than I realized. And obviously conversations around mental health, as well as physical health have obviously moved on no end in the last decade. But I think at the time, you know, I remember my dad saying to me, know I think you're also depressed you should go and talk to someone and I found that really difficult thing to hear and I really didn't want to take any ownership of that but when I look back on it I was kind of catatonically depressed you know I didn't really even care anymore if I woke up the

next day um wow which but I didn't talk about that was one of the things I was I would talk about the physical symptoms but not to anyone outside of my family you know when I got first got ill I sent a Facebook message to my just quite in retrospect probably wasn't the best way to talk to people about it but I sent a Facebook message to my three flatmates at the time and I said that this is why I've been really quiet the last few months this is what's happened this is what I've got I sent them a link to a website that kind of explained the illness and I think I wish I could redo the message because I think I delivered it in such a strange way but I really didn't get much response and as someone who'd always been quite insecure as I said I wasn't very happy beforehand and I think that was because I was really actually had incredibly low self-esteem and did feel incredibly insecure

and I think that really just like exacerbated the fact that I felt something was wrong with me and that people wouldn't like me and maybe they didn't like me already but now that I was strange and different and alien because I had this all these conditions and I couldn't do all these normal things as a result that no one would want to be my friend and I took their response to that message as like concrete evidence that everybody would feel the same way about me as I said that's not just on them that's very much on me as well but at the time I really couldn't see that and it was my nervousness and talking about it that I think created the situation but I literally didn't speak to anyone pretty much for almost a year. My goodness it's such a tough situation I think that period of anyone's life is quite a

vulnerable period you're coming out of teenhood into your early 20s you're really figuring out who you are what you stand for what you want to do who you are as a friend who you are as an individual and then to have that layer on top as well just makes it all the harder and I think as well there's an element of when you talk about your friends not responding or not knowing it's also the same situation for them they're still maturing and learning who they are and then when they're confronted with something that is a tough conversation to have it's understandable that they didn't know how to react to but then you're in this sort of catalyst of that then impacts how you feel which makes the

whole situation worse but it's just it's you know it's completely understandable on both sides what a tough situation completely and I wish I could kind of go back and redo it I know that's not a helpful way to live your life but I think if I'd approached it differently they would have approached it differently and that's been I guess one of my big learnings over the last 10 years is taking a lot more responsibility for how you feel and your actions and stopping seeing how other people respond to you as a way of defining you or how you kind of act and show up every day absolutely I just didn't have the emotional bandwidth at that point and I think I felt so broken anyway that I just I didn't really know where to go with it yeah absolutely

and you can say that now because you've got the hindsight of 10 years of developing and maturing and learning but I think there's a piece of compassion as well for your younger self that you just did the best you could with the situation you had it's so hard so so talk more about that journey to your diagnosis how long did that take what was that like and how did you feel at the time when you got that diagnosis you finally got an answer yeah that was a really strange period because I think I really kind of doubted myself in so many ways I had so I spent it's really a kind of four month period at the beginning seeing goodness knows how many different consultants endocrinologists neurologists gastenterologists, had lots of MRI scans and conoscopies and endoscopies and cystoscopies and literally you name it, I did it, I swallowed

cameras. The longest I spent in hospital was 10 days and no one could get to the bottom of what was wrong. And it got to the point that like any strange illness under the sun was being kind of tossed around as potential and getting a test for that and the next thing but I mean there was even a point where there was a question of like am I allergic to all food because it had got so bad that it was literally having a reaction to kind of everything but equally because we couldn't get to the bottom of anything and no one knew what it was, you do, I think, also have that sense of really doubting yourself and the way you talk about it. And I think it was a really difficult time for my family as well, because

I wasn't very good at articulating how I really felt and what was really going on. They're in there trying to support you, but they don't really know how to support you and they don't really know what's going on and is it permanent is it fixable and when I got my diagnosis I was so happy which because I think it confirmed the fact that I wasn't for want of a better word going mad you know there really were all these physical things happening and this is why they were happening and this is what the problem was and there was a name for it but then I just felt that it was going to be like when you're little and you get tonsillitis and you get given antibiotics and then you take your antibiotics and you're so much better and I didn't think it would be quite

as quick as that you know I didn't think it would be like a 72 hour period but I did assume and I was told I'd probably be on this medication for the rest of my life. It was a chronic illness. And I was kind of okay with that facet of it, but I just assumed that the medication would control everything and I could just kind of forget about this period of my life and go back to how I'd been living before. And then it wasn't until almost like six months or so later when I'd cycled through all the available repurposed medications for the condition and they didn't really work and some of them had created certain side effects that were making other things worse or created new symptoms that was when when things actually got really really

bad in terms especially within my mental health because it was a sense of becoming kind of incredibly apathetic because I just didn't really understand how there could be a way forward and I remember so clearly I was back at trying to go back to university at this point which I don't know in retrospect was a good idea or a bad idea it made me feel a lot more alienated because it was so clear the fact that I wasn't partaking in kind of normal activities. But equally, maybe it would have got worse if I'd been, if I'd completely given up to an extent. But I remember being on the phone to one of my doctors and I just tried the last medication that he had available and it hadn't worked. And one of the main symptoms that I had that really affected me was really chronic stomach problems. I looked like I was about seven or eight months pregnant and all

the time and and we there was a medication that was hopefully helped that but but it hadn't and I just remember so clearly like literally lying on my university bedroom floor it's like hysterical completely hysterical on this realization like there was nothing left and and was this basically my life now and I just couldn't really figure out how that would look or what I was going to do but I didn't act on that for quite a long time I just I think that was when I felt like I really gave up and it was a few months of that of just not partaking really in anything and not talking about it in just watching a lot of tv shows and just pretending numbing yeah

numbing exactly completely numbing out and I used to eat so much like pick a mix and it would make my heart palpitations so much worse but at this point it was like I just don't care I'm so ill I can't do anything why not make it worse yeah which I think ultimately you went through a trauma but that whole experience is traumatic and numbing is a very natural part of the management process once you suffer a trauma or when you suffer a trauma so it's absolutely I think to be expected but going from there which sounds like maybe that was really your rock bottom, what was the journey to play with your diet and test foods? And what made you decide to examine your diet in the first place?

Because I think, you know, even now, but even more so 10 years ago, diet isn't explored enough as a healing property, I think. I think we can say that in modern medicine so what made you turn to that route and how did you find it? Google um best doctor around no I'm joking it's not but no yeah no one had put forward any other options and I'd it came about actually because I feel like I was really hanging around my rock bottom which in a way is sometimes a good place to get to because sometimes you're lucky enough to have that as a catalyst to change things but maybe I needed to get there but I tried to do my first normal thing in a while and I had

an amazing boyfriend at the time he was so supportive and you know he really was incredible throughout the whole thing and we decided to try and do a weekend away together and while we were away I ended up getting just a normal like tummy bug or something but it ended up making me so ill that I came home in a wheelchair and yeah it just it was this realization that I tried to do something very run-of-the-mill and the rest of the trip was cancelled and he brought me home in a wheelchair and we kind of tried to find the funny side of the time and a bit of it was funny but a bit of it was like hang on a second he's such a good guy but he's not going to stay in

this relationship and how am I ever going to do anything normal ever again and actually I think it was a week or so before that I'd'd had just another test. I had these chronic urinary tract infections and they were causing a few problems because they'd been so chronic. And I had to have a cystoscopy, which is a camera in your bladder to look at the scarring and things. And I'd had an allergic reaction. They actually think to a plaster. Wow.

Yeah, where the anesthetic had gone in. I think it was an anesthetic. Anyway, and my heart rate had gone so low. it was an anesthetic anyway and my heart rate had gone so low it was in the 40s and I couldn't go back up after the you know some very very small quick procedure and my body was just so weak that it couldn't handle that at that point as I said some kind of reaction that made my heart feel like it was going to keep beating from potentially a plaster and I think it was just the kind of realization that I just couldn't stay where I was anymore and so I came home from this trip

back to my mom and it's something it's not not embarrassing but I was it almost felt for want of a better word embarrassing that I'd like try to be a kind of semi-grown up and do a trip with my boyfriend to be wheeled home to my mom. Yeah. You know, the psychological impact of that must have been huge when you're a woman in her early twenties and you've already gone through months and months of these health issues. And you've got no independence. Yeah, completely. So it sounds like you actually had a few rock bottoms in your journey to feeling better and getting better. I think the big question is how did you find food? Why did you look at nutrition? Because I think we can all agree that nutrition probably isn't looked at in the capacity that it probably

should be and within modern medicine we often look to medications and other quick fixes before we look at our nutrition and what we're consuming so what made you land on that and what was that experience so it was the night that I got home from this disastrous trip with my then boyfriend and it was just the penny dropping moment which is that wasn't that I didn't know I was in such a bad place but I didn't want to admit to myself that I was in a bad place it's like I said earlier when my dad said I think you're very depressed and even though I knew that I was lying there and we lived next to a train station and see the trains from my room and I do remember lying there and just being like I just wouldn't care if I was lying in the tracks and I wasn't about to do something and I say that with like real understanding

that this is a very emotive topic but I didn't care anymore I really really really didn't care but I just couldn't admit that to myself I couldn't admit how ill I was I just couldn't I don't know I just struggled so much to to own it basically and it was that night where I think because I couldn't admit it I just hid from it the numbing out we were talking about earlier I didn't talk to people I didn't try and go out I just watched tv at home I didn't put myself in situations that would almost be hard and so it was the first time in doing this trip that I'd almost tried to actually do something and actually live my life in a year and in doing that I realized I couldn't I really couldn't and it was kind of screaming the obvious and so I couldn't I couldn't sleep at all that

night and I was just everything that had happened had dawned on me you know like trying to have Sunday lunch and ending up sleeping for like three hours on a chair next to everyone having lunch because I just was that like the chronic fatigue was that bad that I could just pass out in the middle of nowhere like my mum used to joke about being in the car with me and I'd go to sleep and she could just stop the car and do a Sainsbury's shop and get back in and I wouldn't even wake up like it and I just hadn't really admitted that that's what it was and I just I realized how bad it was that night and that I was never going to live the life that I wanted to live and to be fair I didn't know what life I wanted to live either

who I wanted to be what I wanted to do it's not like I had this really clear career plan or life plan but I just knew that anything that I thought I maybe could have done in the future wasn't going to happen if I stayed on that current trajectory and I just went to google and I was googling natural healing alternative healing people healing from chronic diseases kind of anything under that iteration and I came across all sorts of different people who'd had all sorts of different conditions, all of whom had used facets of changing their diets, and that's what I was really looking at at the time. Elements of their lifestyle, but I was really focused on diet at this point. I was really focused on the physical healing, and I was so inspired by their stories. I just felt I had

quite literally nothing to lose. Why not try it? So the next morning I said to my mum, I'm actually going to become like completely natural, fully plant-based, only whole foods, et cetera, et cetera. And she sort of looked at me like, what? Where is this coming from? Who are you? As someone that loved pick and mix and all those sorts of things, didn't like cooking, was not a big vegetable eater, wasn't really particularly interested in food. She was quite confused and taken aback by it. But, you know, all credit to her. She'd been so supportive throughout this whole period. And she said, OK, let's try it.

I'll do it with you. And she was like, I'll eat everything you're going to eat. That's incredible. And also. A huge support. Good for her because it was really gross to start with as well. So that's even more support, which is that the meals did not taste good in day one. This is pre the feel better app.

This is pre the, I needed the feel better app. Yeah. No, honestly, the food was awful. And she tried, she ate everything with me. And she she was she was kind of gentle in some feedback and like um this isn't brilliant had nicer food but she was so so supportive and we started doing it together which really helped I think that that sense of like absolutely someone having your back is kind of the greatest gift in the world and I'm still kind of eternally grateful to her for that I really don't think Delicious Cielo would it wouldn't be what it is today without a huge number of people but I don't know if it would exist if it wasn't

for her that's incredible I think especially you're at your low point at this point as well so to turn that around and say okay I'm going to try and completely switch up my lifestyle and try something entirely different to have her as a support must have just been so important so it was that's off to your mum yeah she was a complete anchor she really really was and like she read every single recipe post absolutely everything first follower on Instagram probably and she was absolutely brilliant and then but it wasn't and then it was a girlfriend of mine who said you know you should do it as a blog you should write it down and she set up a WordPress site for me and she played a

massive role in it as well so it was kind of really really two-pronged and I think that support was important but interestingly I was you know as I said self-esteem definitely wasn't my kind of strongest point growing up and it had hit such a new low at this point I was so embarrassed about what I was doing I really didn't want people to know I didn't want to talk about it I just wanted to be quite invisible which feels so ironic given where this has all ended up. But I, um, I wouldn't show anyone. And I said, you know, if I hit 10,000 hits on the website, then I'll show you. And this was kind of like to my sister and, um, like one or two other people anyway. And then I got, it was about three months later that I got 10 000 um I think it was pretty

much on my 21st birthday so I had to show it to people which was like almost one of the most daunting moments in my career which is quite funny because it was still so tiny and it was just you know my closest people but I was still yeah I think I was so kind of nervous of what people would think and it's that jumping off a cliff moment though isn't it it's like okay now I'm fully doing this and there's no going back once you show people so it really is that moment of truth which is it's hard to take I think that's a brave move it's you know what it's exactly that it's when you say it out loud but equally and the more I've learned as well about, you know, the impact that our mindset has

on our mental health, but interestingly on our physical health, the more I feel actually truly finding that sense of purpose and that focus probably really helped the physical aspect of getting better in lots of ways as well. I really, I really do believe that, you know, that impact of mindset is, is so fundamental. and it was so interesting because I felt so unempowered for so so long and even the day I cooked my first recipe it's not like the first recipe changed anything in terms of like the physical mental symptoms but I felt like a different person because I was like I am doing this I'm doing something that's helping me you know I remember eating some really simple like

sweet potato and avocado salad but I remember eating it and being like this is good for me this is going to make a difference in my life and actually I still use that mindset now you know I was in a bit of a kind of funk this weekend and on Sunday morning I was like I don't want to feel like this anymore right I'm going to make something really healthy for myself. And it's amazing that act of just, it's just one thing. It can be so simple, but I think it has such a massive impact on your mindset and your sense of empowerment and that you can do it and your motivation and positivity. And I think that ripple effect, I don't know if I realized how big it was at the time, but it felt huge.

And I remember writing the bio for Delicious Cielo and I wrote on it I think it's probably still in some iteration on our website you know if I can take my negative and turn it into a positive for one more person then this whole experience could potentially be a success and I think again it was that reframing of the situation that made such a huge difference absolutely and I think it's important to note as well that this is 10 years ago at a time where goop wasn't the brand that it is today and the conversations around gut health wellness and mind body connection and the conversations around even mental health and mental well-being weren't being had so openly at that time so it's so interesting to hear your journey of learning about that almost indirectly through the physical symptoms that

you were having and the physical illness that you had so proof is in the pudding isn't it that there's that connection between the mind and and the body oh totally and everyone thought I was nuts like really because as you said it wasn't part of a mainstream conversation and there wasn't kind of easy access to understand you know podcasts weren't a medium then now if you want to listen to a podcast about your diet impacting either your mental or physical health you can listen to our show but you could listen to goodness knows how many thousands if not tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of episodes or go on youtube or go on instagram or read any mainstream media or broadcast and iterations of this conversation will pop up and whereas at 10 11 years ago that that just wasn't the case and you know remember my brother my brother is so bright he's so clever

and him sort of saying you know what you eat it's not gonna make any difference like everything's just a chemical it doesn't matter what kind of chemical it is. And because it wasn't part of this narrative and I was like, no, it will make a difference. Trust me, one day people will be talking about the fact that emulsifiers aren't good for you. And he sort of just rolled his eyes at me. And everyone I know thought I was mad. And I remember the first time again, like trying to be sociable again, trying to kind of take baby steps. And he went to a dinner party and I took a little Tupperware box with like some little lentil salad in it. Because again, like it was just so alien to people. And I

remember sitting there and someone saying, so you've bought a packed lunch and you're not drinking. You're probably the funnest person here, aren't you? And thinking like, oh, I'm trying so hard. But gradually kind of, I think it became yeah more and more accepted would you say that was one of the biggest challenges of the whole experience of realizing that you couldn't do things quote-unquote the normal way or you weren't the same as everyone else that you had to prioritize different things like do you think that was one of the hardest parts about the whole journey yeah I think that was probably in many ways and I also think that's probably had the longest lasting impact and I think in some ways I still kind of feel facets of that now because

whilst the conditions like very much under control I don't feel on a day-to-day basis I don't feel like I can live quote-unquote normally whatever normally really means. But, you know, I'll still get heart palpitations if I do X, Y, or Z, or I'll still kind of feel facets of it creep back in if I'm not taking care of myself. So I do, you know, I remember going on like my first hen party. I just can't stay out as late. I can't do exactly what everyone else can do and it took I think finding things I really enjoyed and a sense of community within that was really really important but still feeling like you were living a little bit differently and then also because work was such a different thing you know I think lots of people in their early 20s socializing having fun

is still kind of priority number one and it wasn't really on my to-do list because it wasn't very plausible the kind of conventional fun that a lot of people having at that point but then also because delicious yellow exploded so quickly you know when I was sort of 23 24 it ended up being a kind of 24 7 responsibility from such a early age that again I think that made me feel a tiny bit different you know Matthew and I started the kind of more business side of the business early 2015 so I was 23 turning 24 still so young and suddenly we had all these massive responsibilities people to pay every single month, you know, times where you think you're about to go bust the next day. And we really, you know, really did have a few times

where it was like an absolute scramble not to go bust the next week. And so it's just a really different sense of life. And I think that coupled with being ill, but then also the pressure of people thinking because Delicious Yellow exploded so quickly, you know, saying at the saying at the beginning like you know feeling this pressure of kind of being what people want you to be you know is again in my very early 20s people like a guru I was so many things I am so many things I'm not a guru never have been never will be and people think that you know all the answers but you're really figuring so much out yourself and I was figuring out so much myself in terms of just the knowledge of this industry and of your body and your brain but also figuring out so much about who I was and so it was quite a strange few years amazing I don't want to kind of you know there was some amazing bits in that early stage but it was quite

a bizarre thing because you do feel quite separate to everyone else in lots of ways but I think because my self-esteem was quite low I think that exacerbated making myself more separate than anyone else would have needed me to be or asked me to be and how did you deal with that mentally because going from arguably your lowest point or several very low points and you've talked really openly about how that impacted your mental health to them being thrown into the spotlight and being dubbed a guru and having your face known and your voice heard and and you're being seen by the public whilst feeling still quite other to your peers let's say that a huge swing. So how did you deal with that shift and that change mentally? Yeah, I think not that well.

You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads. Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more. That's b-o-b at l-i-b-s-y-n dot com. Yeah, I think not that well. And I think, you know, like being completely honest, I remember Matthew and I talking about this.

So it's probably mid 2015. So our first book came out beginning of 2015 and that was when Delicious Yellow exploded. And we went from people talking to me online, big but niche online community to people talking about you that was I think from a mindset perspective the biggest shift but with that was this realized you know people kind of would like walk past you sometimes and like point at you or like whisper to their friend and maybe they were saying something so nice like I cooked her recipe

yesterday but I think because I wasn't in a great headspace I just assumed that they said she looks really ugly or I really don't like her or you know whatever it was I just assumed it was probably quite negative and you know I do I do remember Matthew saying he was completely right he was like you're kind of projecting this image of being really happy and like things going really well but the reality is like that's not really how I felt and I felt so vulnerable and like I did have a period mid-2015 where I just felt this kind of really crippling sense of anxiety and I did have because at that point there was a get out jail free card it could have done something completely different still worked in this space but finished my training as a nutritionist and just worked with people one-on-one you know I didn't have to keep doing what we do now and I think in a way now there's no getting off the

hamster wheel I love the hamster wheel now but there's a way in lots of ways practically there's no getting off it but at that point there was and I think it was really understanding why am I doing this and I really did feel that sense of my life had felt so bad for what at the time felt like such a long period really I was lucky it actually wasn't in the grand scheme of things but I just felt if I could ever make someone else not feel this way or I could ever make someone else feel a little bit better, then it doesn't really matter how I feel. And I don't say that to sound kind of like holier than thou. I'm like a deeply flawed and imperfect person. But I think just because I never want anyone else to go through anything like that

if they don't have to, that sense of drive has always been so deep in me that I think I kind of parked my mental well-being as improved but not quite where it needed to be for quite a long time and then because work was so intense it was kind of like there wasn't really space to figure anything else out so when did that shift come again because I feel like actually the last year you have been prioritizing yourself at arguably probably your busiest time you run a very successful business you have two very young kids but I know you said the other day you feel better and feel the best you felt in a long time so when was that shift from that sort of 2015-2016 period where almost your mental health and mental state took a back seat for the mission when did you then switch that to start really focusing on yourself again yeah honestly only

so recently and look I felt like I was doing really well in some ways as I said I knew there were bits of me that weren't but I think because my physical health was so much better and that had been the like clearly the die a bit like the like the most obviously diabetes and I didn't feel the depths of mental challenges that I did when I was really poorly kind of felt like I was okay and like stuck a really big plaster on it could keep going I was so excited about what we were doing kind of that adrenaline like really really pushes you through and then we were kind of getting through and figuring things out and the business felt like it was coming together and then this was then spring 2017 and we we did think that like we might go around that time again and that's just normal part of starting a business you know you're always going to have those challenges but we just raised money and it was really helping cash flow and we

were like this is it like the last few years have been tough and now we're on the app and it was just such a great lesson the fact that like you never know what's coming in life you just got to enjoy every single day where you've got it because I was then in the US and I was on a really exciting trip all about promoting the book and the brand over there god and I was sorry I feel really because I feel really emotional about this but I was in a um a meeting in our publisher's office in New York and and someone came into the meeting and they were like oh um uh you've had a family emergency need to need to get you because I hadn't taken any calls I was in this really big meeting anyway so I was trying to call Matthew and I was trying to call Matthew and obviously couldn't get through to him so I was having like a full- I was trying to call Matthew and obviously couldn't get through to him. So I was having like a full on heart attack.

And it was that his mom had had these massive seizures and she'd been rushed to hospital. And anyway, and then over the next few days, we found out that she had terminal brain cancer. So that year was just for Matthew and his family, just living hell, watching her deteriorate every single weekend. And we spent every single weekend with his parents we used to spend every second that we could with them but again obviously priorities you know I was fine and I needed to help him in any way that I could but I was also such a baby you know like didn't really have the emotional capability you know it's almost impossible to help anyone through such a difficult time in their life but certainly didn't feel like I had all the skill sets to help him through that and then I took a month off actually the next summer we both took quite like a that August off I did my yoga teacher training and I remember on

the last day of the training so it's now 2018 it's like a closing ceremony everyone else was really happy and like we'd done it what an amazing achievement and I was bawling my eyes out and I was like I don't want to go back to life I felt I don't know it had been amazing like having a second to kind of think about everything that happened and then I got pregnant like six weeks later so I said we've lived on like times 30 mode for so long and then when Skye was born nine months later I went back to work within a month and I don't say that to be really proud of it it was probably not like the best thing to do from a mental health perspective but I had been I'd committed to so many things I'd committed to a cookbook and I had such bad morning sickness couldn't develop any of

the recipes when I was pregnant because I actually literally couldn't even look at a vegetable without gagging which is quite ironic when it's your job I was just thinking that yeah exactly yeah literally only ate chips and um crisps and roast potatoes for about four months anyway and so and I was like trying oh my god I remember I was being on set with her and she's like six weeks old and I was breastfeeding and I was like I've got this and I don't think I realized I really didn't have it and I think the last few years of putting everything on the back burner and just like pushing through because I needed to for whatever reason had really come to kind of a head and I didn't really know it at the time but I had I think really bad postpartum anxiety I was just really fixated on the fact that like

something could go wrong like whenever I'd be carrying her I'd be just walking down the stairs I'd be like I'm gonna drop her what happens if I drop her I've never fallen down the stairs you know I'd be in the bath and be like I'm gonna drop her like logical rational mind it's like okay even if you did you'd pick her up but I was I don't know I was kind of so scared or you'd be in the bath and be like, I'm going to drop her. Like logical, rational mind. It's like, okay, even if you did, you'd pick her up. But I was, I don't know, I was kind of so scared or you'd be like waiting to cross the road and I'd be like, I'm going to let go of the buggy. Not that I'm trying to let go of the buggy, but I think also, you know, there's such a stigma around sometimes talking about these things. I thought people would think that I was like really crazy. And it wasn't that I wanted to do any of these things, not in any shape or form. It's just,

I was really aware that these things could happen. You could fall down the stairs, you could trip, you could this, you could that. And my mind was just like playing it out. You know, I'd like go and make sure like all the switches were turned off in the kitchen because, you know, set fire to the house. Like it was really just like quite obsessive nervousness of anything that could go wrong. And then lockdown happened important sorry to interrupt you but I think it's that's such an important conversation to have I think not enough is spoken about that postpartum period I think we're just starting to talk about postpartum depression and what that means what that looks like that actually no one talks about

if you're not quite at depression but there's anxiety and what that looks like and what that means what that looks like that actually no one talks about if you're not quite at depression but there's anxiety and what that looks like and what's a normal level of anxiety versus what's a heightened level of anxiety that you could look into further or seek help for that there aren't the conversations being had around that so I think it's a really important point that you bring up as and as a working mother as well there's a lot going on there you've got a very full plate so it's yeah and I think I just put too much pressure on myself to be honest and again I felt like I needed to fulfill a lot of things to do what I needed to do in a way in a way for everyone else in a way for me I think also because I didn't feel low and I was really lucky with that, you know, even like the first few days after Sky was born, I didn't feel that way.

I did have some help and I felt like I couldn't complain as a result. And I was really nervous that people would think that I was a bit mad, you know. And so I just didn't talk about it. I just like tried to ignore it and ignore it and like keep going and keep going but I think like if I look back on it I don't think I enjoyed any of those I mean she was amazing like you did enjoy parts of it because she's so sweet but I didn't I didn't really enjoy it I wasn't really that present I was kind of just trying to get through it and I think that's really relatable for a lot of new mums as well and also what you mentioned earlier about just going from one thing to the next.

That's also hugely relatable. I think obviously not everyone starts a business. Not everyone deals with a terminal illness within their close family. Not everyone has a child or will choose to have a child. But actually everyone can relate to that feeling of, OK, mental well-being's put on the back burner because I'm focusing on the mission of the company or my family or my friends or whatever their situation may be I think it's a hugely relatable feeling to not prioritize yourself and to prioritize everyone else or everything else in your environment or around you I completely agree

and I think also one of the big mistakes for want of a better word that I made is I think I also like didn't realize what small things could do you know that I felt like I had to have this massive overhaul and didn't have any capacity for that but actually probably like 10 minutes of meditation would have really helped and I could have found so let's let's talk about that actually because we all know your journey with nutrition um and plant-based living but what else have you incorporated into let's say your wellness toolkit over the years and what really works for you yeah so it was in um so lockdown then happened I know like when I was about seven months or so and obviously everyone stopped and I was also pregnant with May at this point and who's our second daughter and I think it was

in that moment which was you know I was actually not busy at all Matthew was very busy managing the disaster of supply chains and you know the business and keeping it going and he was took a lot on in terms of that responsibility but I had been meant to be on like a big book tour and all those sorts of things and everything had been cancelled and so I suddenly had space and it was the first time since 2015 since this all started that I'd had space but also I guess it was the first time as like an adult that I'd had a minute to think about things I know everyone found lockdown different but I think quite a lot of people felt the same that it was suddenly you had a minute to think about things. I know everyone found lockdown different, but I think quite a lot of people felt the same, that it was suddenly you had a moment to not rush, as you were saying, from one thing to the next thing to the next thing, keep putting things on the back burner.

You actually had to confront it. And I think I had to confront the fact that in a way I'd been just like running and rushing and running and rushing. And why was I doing that? And what was I trying to achieve? And I did this mindfulness-based stress reduction course and I actually did it because I was doing my 500 hours of yoga teacher training at this point and it was one of the module options and I thought yeah I can do that from home that looks kind of interesting I'd always said oh I don't have time for meditation I don't have time for that I don't really need it what difference is it going to make it's like the best eight weeks of my life it was amazing it took me so deep and we were doing 40 minutes plus a few extras of meditation every day and I'd never done anything

like that before and it changed my whole life yeah Matthew started calling me like Ella 2.0 it's like unrecognizable and I suddenly realized there was this kind of whole other way of looking at wellness and way of looking at our well-being and way of taking care of ourselves that was equal if not more important in some ways than the broccoli and the spinach and things like that and it really shifted my whole focus and I think in a way it's kind of shifted facets of the company's focus as well you know you said about the app earlier in terms of bringing all those different components into it and I think I just became you know want to talk to lots of people on the podcast about these sorts of things because I became so convinced in my own life but

then also in all the research that there's kind of quite one dimensional view that we often had and I'd certainly had almost at the beginning of the fact that like just what we eat or maybe just how we move our bodies is what's going to impact our health. And that actually was so much deeper than that. So yeah, that was 2020. So I guess it's been the last almost three years now of kind of taking that deeper and deeper and exploring lots of different facets of it. And I started seeing someone a few months ago, actually, which is a kind of therapy, stroke, kind of emotional emotional work because there were definitely some things from my childhood that I really had just never felt I was in a good enough place to look at so yeah it's been a kind of amazing few months I really feel very very different place than I ever had

before as you said and it's this idea that I think you can't control the external and I feel like the last 10 years has taught me that in spades but you can control more of the internal than I think I ever wanted to tell myself that you could because that level of responsibility it's kind of appealing to put out on other people isn't it rather than always own it yourself absolutely we have so much more power than we realize I think to create change and sustainable change as well exactly and and see each day so differently and in a way we've never been busier you know in a way we've never had more responsibility you know I said earlier like in 2015 if I wanted to leave I could have left and and now I can't like even if I didn't want to do this got to do it for a

certain amount longer you know when we bought our shareholders last year we took on a few million pounds worth of debt like it's not not doing this right now it's not an option and it's not an option that I want because I love it I love it so deeply that's not changed but I think it's we have got a lot of responsibility there is a lot going on we've also got two children and yet I feel calmer than I ever have before and it is it's that I guess it's the dedication to consistently looking after my mental well-being and putting all those tools in place and I you know it's something I really want to explore with all our guests this season actually is that I really convicted for a lot of people myself very much included happiness is something that is available to so many of us, but it's also not

something that always comes lightly or easily. And certainly in my life, it's not. It's something that I feel, and I've learned that whether I like it or not, I think it's something that I'll always have to work on. And putting those kind of daily tools in place creates this kind of infinite level of happiness that I've never felt in the last three decades ever. I never have felt like that. But when I don't do it, I don't feel that way. And I look at Matthew and he does. Happiness comes really inherent to him. Even when he's so overwhelmed, even when he's so stressed, he finds it quite easy to be happy. I need to meditate. I need to do yoga. I need to eat my vegetables and go to bed early and all the rest of it like

maybe I'm just very sensitive who knows what it is but when I do that I feel kind of like the world's the best thing it could ever be yeah I think it's an important point you make as well that there isn't a start and an end to wellness or health it's an evolving thing and a continuous thing that you learn and evolve as you need to and it's also not linear which is important as well to note but on that what are your daily or weekly non-negotiables that are your go-tos to maintain your health yeah no definitely and on the non-linear I think that's one of the most important points because I know when I started I was like I'm gonna eat healthily for six months then I'm gonna feel great and I'll go back to exactly where I was living

before and like a I loved it so I didn't want to go back but b I realized that was not the case and that's the frustration and I guess obviously it's coming out in January when that narrative is rife like do this six-week diet 90 days of this like get a six-pack tomorrow do this two-week course and everything will be completely different and that's just not how it works for us like you've got to keep doing it and some days it'll be difficult and you won't do it and you'll have periods where you do it you can go back to it and come you know but it's not going to be linear and it's going to be quite messy but ultimately there is no one thing you can do today or tomorrow or for the next six weeks

and then you will be fixed and then you will be healed ultimately I think if you really want to feel great mentally and physically for most people it's something that's going to be a daily-ish thing and I think in terms of those daily-ish and I love daily-ish it came from a podcast guest which is the tools that you feel you do want to do most days because it makes such a big difference to your mental health, to your physical health. But equally, the ish is just giving us all that grace, that compassion on the fact that not every day goes to plan. And that's okay.

You're not doing it wrong if you don't do it every single day. For me, the biggest thing is actually space for choir. So we, and it really helps, I think, that we both do it. But we get up like like an hour an hour and a half before the girls in the morning which is early it's like 5 30 to 6 o'clock wow early early birds yeah and look we're lucky because we've got toddlers who sleep to 6 45 7 so we are really lucky I appreciate that but that hour is gold like it it's absolutely gold. And it's become like quite a non-negotiable for us both.

And we always do a meditation normally about 20 minutes. And then I'll do another one if I feel like I need more. And then maybe do like 10, 15 minutes of yoga. Sometimes literally just drink coffee silently or listen to nice music. Read the papers. Do Sudoku, my secret favorite activity but do something just in like really quiet we don't really talk to each other massively and it's just like completely your space your time and i think because our life is really busy as it is for so

many people making sure you guarantee that quiet time and and within that that meditation for me that's huge like I'm obsessed with the positive affirmation and do that every single day and like we'll cycle through a few different affirmations but it's amazing it's seven minutes long and at the end of it I'm like yes I feel so elevated I feel like such a different person so that is kind of that is number one and like the biggest non-negotiable in my life. I think the second thing for me is just learning the art of saying no. I think that's, it doesn't seem like

the most obvious wellness tool, but I guess it links to the first, which is like actually making time for yourself. I am quite an introverted person. I really like quiet. I really like space. I love time to just like potter around the house and, you know, to cook. And I love cooking. I really do. People the house and you know to cook and I love cooking I

really do people always ask that do you still love cooking and I love it so much it's like having space for that so saying no to things if people want you to do it or you maybe should do it but actually like when you really kind of I was very inspired by all the conversations to our series about living your life according to your values. Like what really matters to you? What really matters to me is saying goodnight to my girls every day and putting them into bed. Having time to just potter around the house. Like it makes me such a better mom. It makes me such a better wife.

Makes me so much happier and therefore better at work and all the rest of it. So yeah, saying no. And I think I say no to like 98% of things. Because I just love being at home. Such a homebody and just having a really few close friends. And then I think the third thing is it is still making time to cook. You know, I feel so different when I eat properly and I eat really healthily. And I think it's so easy to say, oh, we don't have time and eat toast and don't get me wrong, a hundred percent do that too. But actually to like make a really quick stir

fry or something like that also takes 10 minutes it can be done in one pan you can just have the simplest of ingredients you could make hummus yourself and put it on the toast you know it's like and sometimes they go through periods where I forget that and you're like I don't feel so good I don't feel so energized obviously not you're not eating what you need to eat. And so I think for me, it's like, yeah, teeny little things like a little lunchbox at work. It makes all the difference. So yeah, I guess it's time for meditation and quiet, making space for me and not getting the stage, which is how I live for so long, which is never having time to really figure out what you feel and what you actually need and then making sure you do take the time to just five ten minute meals but they just make the world of difference to how i feel yeah brilliant takeaways there's nothing there that's a complete life overhaul

you're not leaving your job or going off and living on a beach somewhere secluded it's it's small everyday incremental things that that people can take away and do which is it's important and that's how it becomes sustainable I think you know I totally agree and I think it's one of the things that sometimes we get wrong in the world of wellness and well-being is that we feel you've got to change your whole life to make a difference you've got to quit your job you've got to move to the beach you know live in Bali live the influencer life. You know, and I think sometimes, and I totally get it, people are going to look at this space and think it's not relatable. I'm juggling so many different things. I don't really have any time.

And, you know, everyone comes at it from a different place. I can't sit here and say, you do have time. I don't know you. And I appreciate that fully but equally when we stop looking at it as changing everything and start looking at it as batch cooking a lentil bolognese and then eating some of the leftovers for lunch or making some hummus and chucking roasted carrots in there that you've got leftover from Sunday lunch to get a few vitamins and minerals in there or doing five minutes of de-stress meditation because you're so overwhelmed it feels like it's a little bit simpler and remembering that it's daily ish like you don't have to be perfect not the perfect even a quantifiable concept but just the small things every day it does start to add up like I've not

changed anything massive in my life I haven't kept up the 40 minutes meditation that I did in the course but over the last few years the more i've done the tiny things the easier they become and the bigger impact they've had yeah and i think the fundamental part of that is you setting boundaries to allow yourself to do it and to give yourself the space as you've said which actually is the foundation of everything else on top of that which is so important and ultimately it's it's so easy to say don't have time but oh and I do feel this very very strongly that life is made of chapters and you can't do everything in every chapter and if we try to we just burn ourselves out like you can't give everything to your career and everything

to your family and everything to your friends and everything to you know investing in your own well-being you know all at the same time like it's just impossible like to get up at 5 30 5 45 we go to bed at 9 30 which means that we probably go out one night a week if that or have friends over one night a week because our priority we love our work we love our kids like that's just the life cycle that we're in right now and maybe there'll be a time in 10 years time where socializing and living a kind of more a bigger life in that capacity is part of it but there's no way that I could do my job well which I love but there's no way to do it without sacrificing other things and I think that is I think this myth that we can have it all is like one of the worst things for our collective well-being.

Yeah, I absolutely couldn't agree more. You mentioned the next chapter and looking forward. What does that next chapter look like for you? It seems like 2022 has been a real year of looking inwards, doing the work, digging deep. And it feels like you're almost kind of ready for this next step so what does that next step look like for you yeah I feel really excited about it I feel as you said 2022 is a big year of self-development and self-discovery and I do feel passionately I mentioned it in the introduction that I think you could kind of get on a hamster wheel of self-development where you can always

better yourself but like I think you know when is a period where you quite want to, because you feel like it will give you a lot more to give to the people around you. Like improving my self-esteem means that if someone says something nasty to me or something, I don't take it into the rest of the day. Or if you get a response from someone you weren't looking for, that's okay. You know, someone doesn't want to come on the podcast.'s okay I'm not a terrible person because of it and I think that was a great experience of self-development to improve self-esteem but I'm happy to kind of get off the self-development train this year in a way and just kind of really live and enjoy it I don't I don't want people to feel like you start self-development you've got to develop for the

next however many years of your life so I actually think that starts to be quite depressing I think it's a fantastic tool in places but then use it to live and I think that's what I'm really excited about this year is I feel a confidence in myself that I've never felt before I don't mind what people think of me I don't mind what people want to say I don't think I would have felt confident to take the podcast in the direction that we are in the past I would have felt too nervous to have someone sit opposite me and ask them these sorts of questions and and now I can look at it and just say look I'm so lucky to get the opportunity to sit down with this person let's just kind of see what happens and I think I feel really excited that sense of mission for Delicious Yellow I still have in droves it hasn't waned which I'm kind of surprised about

in some ways and I feel like this confidence allows it to kind of explode in some ways which I'm really yeah I feel really excited about and also life is easier now that I don't have two under two like that's just a call of spade to spade it's quite a it was such a juggle and you know when you're in it you don't always completely realize so I think it's going to be a good year and I hope that these sorts of conversations we can yes I said the beginning and allow people to feel inspired and empowered and uplifted not to emulate someone or not to take their daily wellness tools and say that's what I've got to do but just to see that there's different ways of looking at things and different ways to approach things and maybe there's facets of it that would be helpful to bring into your own life in some capacity in some way to coin Matt's term from

earlier it sounds like Ella 2.0 is officially here yeah exciting I hope so I hope so yeah it's um it's exciting so thank you for listening I hope you enjoyed the episode next week my first guest is the amazing Jake Humphrey who presents the high performance podcast which has been one of the podcasts I've listened to most over the last few years so it's a real dream to have him joining us we're going to be talking a lot about ruminating thoughts and anxiety and the importance of reframing our mindset and what that did for his mental health journey so please do let me know your thoughts on the episode over email podcast at deliciouslyella.com or on social media at deliciouslyella each week we're going to also create a collection of all the tools

that we've talked about in the episode because I know it's one thing to hear something that might resonate or know there's something we might be able to do in our lives but actually doing it often feels like a different story so each week we'll create a toolkit for you based on the sorts of tools that have helped our guest. And you'll be able to find that on Feel Better, which is the Deliciously Ella app. If you don't have it, there's a week's free trial. So just head to the show notes and you'll get all the details there. And we've collated all the different tools that have helped me for our first episode. And then you'll find that for every single guest. So all there is to say is thank you. hope you've enjoyed it i will see you next week

and as always massive thank you to curly media who are partners in making this production Thank you.